Unscrupulous Ebayer

[JAH]

There is a current listing on Ebay that lists a reservation (5 night only) at Boardwalk or Old Key West (WLV added inside the ad). Seller claims he will check availability at Boardwalk then OKW or even WLV. He had an auction that finished last week $300 more than others at the same time listing OKW. I emailed the buyer to see if this guy was legit and was informed that he advised her that he could not get BW no availability (he probably would only check SV) so she got OKW.
What a scam!
Just goes to show you what some will do for an extra buck.

[PamOKW]

That's what I don't get about a lot of these reservations. They ask you to buy something that they don't have and can't guarantee. I also see most of the rentals being in the low $300's for a 5 night stay. Good for the person renting but I don't see the incentive to DVC'ers to use their points for rentals. Why not use them as intended to take a luxurious vacation at WDW or elsewhere?

[danacara]

So you are scanning ebay for DVC auctions and emailing the bidders and sellers to assess their transactions? Why, exactly? I wish I had your kind of time!

[Richyams]

I think that is a good idea. You could point someone to the rent/trade board here. You could impart information to allow the bidder to make a more informed choice.

Bravo

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx,This has failed every time it has been tried, why do we still have liberals?

[gscott8075]

This board is continuing to deteriorate.

I used to find all kinds of solid information about DVC and all the ins and outs of the program.
Now, a growing minority of posts refer to personally to other posters. It is indicative of what is wrong in society at large.

This thread highlights the increasing antagonism which makes me want to find another information stream.

All kinds of people surf the interent for all kinds of information. The ebay discussion has been ongoing and is an interesting sub-component of the the rental discussion.

If someone wants to email buyers and sellers, that is fair game. I am thankful for the information to determine my approach to using points in the future if I choose to do something outside of the DVC resorts.

That transaction is the one which went for $17 per point. The method by which someone was able to rent for that amount should be of general interest to the DVC population.

Can't we all agree to accept information as provided without looking for ulterior motives or accusing people of wasting time?

C'mon - the recent discourse has hit an all time low. This is a board about DVC and about Disney - which, as we seem to have forgotten, is supposed to be the happiest place on earth.

All members of this board should rededicate ourselves to that lofty goal.

[MaryAnnDVC]

I agreee. It's too bad. When I started coming here 3 months ago for information, I was so incredibly grateful for the information, and how helpful everyone seemed. And I still am! But it's getting harder and harder to get through the simplest of threads without coming across personal attacks and downright meanness. It's getting to be a drag.

JAH and PamOKW...thanks for the information and insight. :D

[LisaR]

gscott,
I could not agree with you more. This board used to contain so much useful information. Now it seems like every other post is a fight : renters are ruining DVC, Ebay is hurting DVC members, OKW is better then BWV, BWV is better then OKW, those of you that bought at VB only did so because you were lied to by your guide, etc....
It really gets old after awhile. I checked into DVC years ago and found these boards about 2 years ago. They really helped me make my decision to buy into DVC. However, if I knew nothing about DVC and stumbled onto these boards, I think I would be turned off by DVC. It seems like everyone is unhappy with DVC - benefits aren't as good, CM aren't as nice, renters are cramming 20 people in a studio. Why would anyone want to buy into a program like that?? By the way, when I used the word "everyone" I actually was referring to a very small number of people who constantly post the same negative stuff - it just gives the impression that a LOT of people are unhappy.
Can't we get back to giving out info on why DVC is so great and quit attacking people? Can't some people refrain from thinking that their opinion is the only opinion anyone should listen to and everyone else is wrong?
Of course, maybe the goal is to turn people off to DVC. What is the advantage to more members? Then there would be even less availability and even more points to rent out or sell on ebay!
Lisa

[Towncrier]

Personally, I am glad to see disenting opinions about DVC. It is quite helpful to see opinions about which resort is better. I don't think that a bunch of DVC "cheerleaders" who only have good things to say about DVC would do anyone any good. Neither do I think that the naysayers should always prevail. Every opinion counts. The personal attacks, however, are a drag and have to stop. It was all of the personal attacks and junk on the Disney newsgroups on usenet that led me to DIS. What we need here is "friendly" disagreement. Just my $0.02 worth.

[JAH]

I am not for nor against selling a reservation on Ebay. Like I have the time to read and post on DIS(DVC, resort,budget,restaurant) boards , I also have time to browse on Ebay for all sorts of stuff. The Ebay rentals have been a hot topic on this board for some time and I am sure many of us have gone over to take a peek at whats going on. Most of the DVCers are selling a generic 5 night Sun - Thurs open reservation at OKW.
I was making a note how one seller named Boardwalk
in there listing and was able to squeeze an extra $300 for a 40 point reservation(to make over 20 a point)by misleading a bidder with the lure of Boardwalk and with fine print giving them OKW. Someone who is selling on Ebay is obviously looking to maximize their "profit" so to speak. Why would they list an auction and take the same $ for BWV or OKW when the Boardwalk reservation would cost significantly higher points. The answer is they do not they give the bidder OKW and tell them they could not get BW. I emailed the winning bidder to see if they got Boardwalk and was informed they did not etc. This seller has another auction with same listing and I have emailed bidders on this auction to consult the seller if they really want Boardwalk. If OKW is okay they could probably get a better deal on one of the many other auctions. No personal gain involved. I just do not like to see people taken advantage of. As a DVC owner I may be able to pick up something or understand the system better than someone who may be bidding on this offer.

[LisaR]

Towncrier,
I just wanted to say that I agree 100% with you and hope that you (or anyone else) didn't read into my post that I think only positive, happy things about DVC should be posted. I think everyone should give their honest opinion. Some guy on the cruise line board was getting flamed by some because he didn't like his cruise. I love what he wrote. He posted what he saw as negative but did not attack anyone. On the DVC boards, it just seems to be one attack after another or the posts are repetitive. How many time can we hear (read) from the same person that if we didn't buy at OKW we made a bad decision???
Lisa

[Stephen]

I feel fortunate to have bought an ownership and enjoy the benefits of DVC. It is too bad stuff like that is going on, but let the buyer beware. Maybe, if those buying on EBAY would do some more research, they would find out about DVC and consider it for their vacation options. Now that's real savings!

[gscott8075]

I do not mind differing opinions - and I am happy to have folks disagree with my perspective - sometimes those comments have helped me change my mind.

The second post on the thread was harmful to the original poster - not the content of the post, but the author of the post.

It did not contribute anything of substance to the discussion.

We have to stop slamming others for research or for opinions. It is not healthy and does not make a contribution to the collection of knowledge in this forum.

[Towncrier]

LisaR - I think that I saw that same post on the cruise line board. A few folks raked him over the coals because he had the nerve to complain about DCL. The whole point of his post was missed in the ensuing battle. I responded to your post because I wanted to emphasize the point that positive and negative posts on any topic are welcome. I'm glad that you clarified how you feel on this topic. As has been stated numerous times, sarcasm is difficult (if not nearly impossible) to express on the boards and it often comes off sounding mean spirited. If I have offended anyone, then I've done my job. :) Nuff said. I'm off my soapbox.

On topic: If someone is naive enough to purchase a DVC vacation for $$$$$$ on eBay without having some sort of pre-arrangment, then I don't think that you can fault the seller. I've seen single post-it notes for sale on eBay (as a joke) and people have bid on them. I am uncomfortable with the idea of buying or selling a vacation on eBay. Our DVC points are a precious commodity to be shared with family and friends.

[This message was edited by Towncrier on 03-29-01 at 03:17 PM.]

[dianeschlicht]

That is the difinitive term here. I have been burned badly twice on Ebay to the tune of several thousand dollars, and I now think that it is a haven for unscrupulous people wishing to make a buck in a deceptive manner. There certainly are legitimate sellers in that forum, but there is an over abundance of shady ones. :eek:

Disneydiane http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/mickey36.gif http://www.dreamsunlimitedtravel.com/images/official_logos/keywest.gif

[Joeblack]

Maybe the eBay guy is unscrupulous, but I'd rather say that peole who buy such thing are uninformed in the best case and greedy in the worst. You can put your money in a cd and get 4% or you can send it to one of those Nigerian mail scams offering you several million dollars in return and lose it all. I mean, people should be aware that the higher the return, the higher the risk. I personally would not buy anything from eBay, much less a vacation package.

As for negative posts, I agree with you LisaR. Your posts are usually really fun, informative and well written. This board really got me into buying DVC at the BWV at the right time and I can't thank enough all the posters who had the patience and good will to help me. I remember once posting innocently about how many people could get into a studio, just out of curiosity, and just getting good, straightforward answers. I am glad I didn't post the question these days or I am sure I would have been suspected of a conspiracy to destroy DVC. (I wouldn't be able to post such a question anyway, since the subject has been banned because of personal attacks.)
I am also really tired of some of the same subjective, repetitive and paranoic ideas that keep coming up in this board. Probably those who post them hope that an opinion will turn into a fact if repeated over and over.

One final though. I believe all subjects should be open to newcomers, while personal attacks should be dealt with on a personal basis (warning th poster once and then banning him/her). I am sure one of the most basic concerns for future DVC owners is the issue of occupancy and I doubt they will go on the Debate board for information on such a thing.

[This message was edited by Joeblack on 03-29-01 at 04:17 PM.]

[Diana1]

You know..I have been lurking around this board for several years. I have been really surprised about the renting controversy. If you "own" your timeshare points, you can do what you want with them..just like if you own your house, you can do what you want with it (sell it, leave it vacant, rent it etc) and it should be no ones concern what you rent it for. I still cant see that it hurts me if someone else rents their points. If that same person used their points for themself, it would have the same impact on my availability.
People are different with different needs...lets respect that

Tigger is my "fav"!

[PamOKW]

Just a reminder that just because you own something doesn't always mean you can do whatever you want. Most condo complexes in Florida have restrictions on rentals, pets, etc., etc. DVC is the entity that needs to determine what is best for our "complexes". I own it, I can do whatever I want doesn't fly. Right now renting is pretty flexible.

[PamOKW]

We "own" our DVC points but that doesn't mean we own the DVC resorts. We can't just do whatever we want "because we are owners". The new VM has a notice that they will be enforcing the no RV parking at OKW. They had gotten lax about this over the years but they stress "These regulations are stated in the condominium documents, and are for the safety of all Members".

The best experience for all members provided by DVC regulations overrules the "I own it. I do what I want." attitude that some posters have expressed. And that's all I want DVC to continue to do. They are responsible for running the resorts for the safety and enjoyment of all Members.

[A1A1]

Thank you for the heads up on ebay rentals. It may have helped some of our fellow DISers to remember that when you rent points from any DVC member, the reservation is not guaranteed at a particular resort until the reservation is made and confirmed, and it may not be guaranteed *at all*.

It gave me something to think about.

[baileybrad]

for the Ebay information. As for negativity, 2 folks decided to post negative shots at JAH for just putting out information that should be of general use to all DVCers and folks looking to possibly rent DVC points. His calling to check into the situation is, I believe his/her right. No one can read sarcasm in a post. You can't have it both way folks. A main purpose of this board is for the sharing of information about things that may or do affect DVC owners, potential owners, and people attempting to find out what DVC is all about. Richyams is one of the most strident posters on this board but he does it without being personal. There have been a few folks who have decided to somehow defend the cause of renters on this board. They have done it by calling DVC owners elitest, etc. Frankly, I don't get it. If someone is willing to rent points that is their right on both ends of the transaction. But I find that the more information that we all, both owners and renters, have about what is going on in this market can't help but benefit all concerned. And for providing information on the subject JAH gets slammed er excuse me gets hit with "sarcasm". How is that helpful to those trying to gain information on this board. I just never knew information was so harmful.

[This message was edited by baileybrad on 03-29-01 at 08:18 PM.]

[Dean]

It is common to advertise rentals at timeshares then check availability either directly through a reservation or with the exchange company. I personally don't like using ebay by this method. The alternative is however to schedule an actual reservation then advertise it with an additional comment about being able to check other availability, locations or unit sizes.

As to being able to do what you want with your ownership. While it's true there may be restrictions, the restrictions much be enforced uniformly. If DVC enforced no renting, they'd be out of business.

I too would be careful about interferring with a pending transaction. I suspect it would be grounds for being banned from ebay.

Dean

[HorizonsFan]

I was going to weigh in on this topic, but I'm tired of beating my head against the wall...

Ya'll play pretty!

Dave

http://members.home.net/tdkersh/horizonssignsm.gif

[Richyams]

Getting banned from EBAY for providing a buyer with honest, straightforward information?

For informing a buyer about what he is buying?

I would think EBAY would be happy for anything that served to raise their standard of quality.

I could see them getting upset and banning someone for simply offering the product at a lower price. But to honestly inform someone about what they are buying seems fair to me.

I also agree that it is common and correct to advertise subject to availabilty. I wonder if the seller did only go for std view....or if he made the buyer aware that he was only going for std view....that is what would have really made the transaction itself fraudulant.....he advertised BWV, not BWV std view....but maybe there was no availabilty in prefered????? Maybe he was honest, I don't think we know that for sure.

My entrance to this thread was only to throw a "bravo" in agreement and appreciation of the move and effort to inform about DVC. I actually posted at the same time as that silly fascist comment and didn't see it till after I posted.

BTW, thanks Brad, or Baily....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx,This has failed every time it has been tried, why do we still have liberals?

[Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 5.5 Manipulation. Neither you, bidders nor sellers may manipulate the price of any item nor may you interfere with other user's listings or auctions. [/quote]
I believe that emailing a bidder, especially a winning bidder, that they can find the same thing cheaper would definitely be interfering. Somehow I don't see ebay as interested in making sure that buyers get the best deal.

Dean

[Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I doubt that Ebay will ban anyone because they inform others of something illegal. I certainly would appreciate it if I was about to walk into a trap. [/quote]
Maybe I misunderstood the point of this paragraph, however I don't see anything illegal with advertising on ebay or renting out DVC ing general. Whether ebay would actually ban someone is up to them. Regardless, emailing a bidder about alternatives is interferring with the auction and under the terms of agreement, would be grounds for being banned, no matter how well intentioned or helpful.

It is up to ebay and the authorities to police ebay and not the duty or even the right of an individual to jump into an auction to try to warn the bidders. The proper course is to notify ebay directly.

Dean