Rules regarding wheelchairs and Disney Transportation

[dolphingirl47]

While staying at AKL, I encountered something that made me curious. I just wonder what the rules/ legal position are regarding this is.

I got to the bus stop one morning and there were two ECVs and a power chair waiting at the stop for MK as well as maybe 20 other people. The bus came with maybe half a dozen or so people on it. The driver loaded the two ECVs and their party. There was no room to load the girl (probably 10 or 11) in the power chair.

The CM who was organizing the busses (radioing if more were needed,etc) explained to the people waiting that we would have to wait for the next bus as they were not allowed to load anybody else on the bus if they can not accommodate a wheelchair user. The bus went off with maybe 10 people on board.

When the next bus came (less than 10 minutes later after he radioed for another one), the girl in the power chair was loaded and then everyone else got on.
I am just curious if this is the law or if the CM was just showing some kindness to the girl who was obviously disappointed that she did not make it on the first bus.I most certainly did not mind to wait and nor did anybody else at the bus stop seem to do.

Corinna

[HappyDznyCamper]

I'm sure others with more knowledge will post soon, but I think yes, if the bus is full to those in wheelchairs, the bus is full to others as well. Most Disney buses can hold to wheelchairs/ECVs, a very few(newer ones) can hold 3. Nice to see a CM doing the right thing.

[KPeveler]

Yes, the bus driver was following the law, a federal law i believe.

A lot of the time, others will be loaded anyway, but if a wheelchair user cannot get on, no one else can either. it is to keep bus drivers from claiming there is no room for the wheelchair and just loading everyone else. a lot of bus drivers do not like to take the extra time to load a wheelchair (as if we were doing it for fun!), and so they claim anything they can to not have to get up.

but, yes, the law was being followed.

[SueM in MN]

I have never actually seen it happen, but the idea is that if the bus is full to wheelchairs at that stop and there is a person using a wheelchair waiting, it is considered full to everyone boarding at that stop.

[dolphingirl47]

I'm sure others with more knowledge will post soon, but I think yes, if the bus is full to those in wheelchairs, the bus is full to others as well. Most Disney buses can hold to wheelchairs/ECVs, a very few(newer ones) can hold 3. Nice to see a CM doing the right thing.

Yes, the bus driver was following the law, a federal law i believe.

A lot of the time, others will be loaded anyway, but if a wheelchair user cannot get on, no one else can either. it is to keep bus drivers from claiming there is no room for the wheelchair and just loading everyone else. a lot of bus drivers do not like to take the extra time to load a wheelchair (as if we were doing it for fun!), and so they claim anything they can to not have to get up.

but, yes, the law was being followed.

I have never actually seen it happen, but the idea is that if the bus is full to wheelchairs at that stop and there is a person using a wheelchair waiting, it is considered full to everyone boarding at that stop.

Thanks for the replies.

Corinna

[peemagg]

Wow!!! That is interesting! I wonder why this has not been put into practice before. Is that a new law or just one that people choose to obey once and a while or is it that Disney is starting to crack down on this?

How many times have we heard people say they couldn't board with a wheelchair because the driver said the bus was full or that the lift was broke. How does this law work if the lift is not working? Does this mean that no one gets to board?

[dolphingirl47]

Wow!!! That is interesting! I wonder why this has not been put into practice before. Is that a new law or just one that people choose to obey once and a while or is it that Disney is starting to crack down on this?

How many times have we heard people say they couldn't board with a wheelchair because the driver said the bus was full or that the lift was broke. How does this law work if the lift is not working? Does this mean that no one gets to board?

During my 9 night vacation at WDW, this was the only time that there were more wheelchairs/ ECVs than that there was room for on the bus. So I cannot comment on if this is normal procedure at WDW.

Corinna

[SueM in MN]

I was told this information about 6 or 7 years ago by a WDW bus driver. He said it was federal transportation law, but I have never been able to find the actual law he was talking about.

[WheeledTraveler]

Honestly, I really question whether this is federal law. It may be Disney policy and they may have it grouped in their training so that bus drivers think it's a law, but if so it's something I see violated all the time. Like Sue, I've looked for the actual law quite a bit with no luck finding it.

I'm a wheelchair user in NYC who takes buses regularly and I've never seen them decided that because a wheelchair user can't get on due to a lift/ramp not working or the two spots being filled that no one else can get on. This includes at the stops where managers hang out to make things are running on time, etc. It's always just let everyone else on and the wheelchair user waits for the next bus they can get on (this nearly turned into a 2 or 3 bus wait for me once).

[SueM in MN]

Any kind of transportation (air, bus, boat, etc) is not covered only by the ADA, but by other parts of Federal Transportation Law. (http://www.fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3906.html)

There are some things that are open to interpretation that might have been clarified by lawsuits, for example, this phrase:
"shall ensure that its system, when viewed in its entirety, provides equivalent service to individuals with disabilities, including individuals who use wheelchairs, as it does to individuals without disabilities. The standards of Sec. 37.105 shall be used to determine if the entity is providing equivalent service."
Unless you know exactly what terms to search for, things like that are hard to find.
There is a part in section Section 37.165 Lift and Securement Use; Department of Transportation Law about wheelchairs that says:
"Entities may require wheelchair users to ride in designated securement locations. That is, the entity is not required to carry wheelchair users whose wheelchairs would have to park in an aisle or other location where they could obstruct other persons' passage or where they could not be secured or restrained. An entity's vehicle is not required to pick up a wheelchair user when the securement locations are full, just as the vehicle may pass by other passengers waiting at the stop if the bus is full."

That is a part that may have been further clarified by anti-discrimination lawsuits to say that if the bus is full at that stop for wheelchairs, it is considered full for everyone. I have not tried very hard to check for that, but it very well may be out there because a good argument could be made that it is discrimination to allow other passengers to board when those with a wheelchair can't.

Also, State Law can be more specific and more strict than Federal Law. Since this law is requiring access, Florida law could be more specific about things like what happens if the wheelchair spots are full or how long a bus can be out of service with an in-operable lift.

I doubt that Disney would make a policy that says to not load anyone at a stop if there is not space for a waiting wheelchair. A policy like that would be inconvenient for Disney because it would really tick off guests not in wheelchairs and would lead to the next bus being fuller.

[Debbie-TN]

I don't know about wheelchairs, but I know when there have more than 2 EVC's at our bus stop, we have had to wait for the next bus and everyone standing in line got on the bus. ECV's are loaded on first, so if there are three and the bus is empty, that wouldn't make sense to say that it's full and not let everyone else on that bus. We would feel awful if when we got on the bus, they made everyone else wait for the next bus.

[christymarie]

Wow, this is amazing. I have to admit, however, that I would hope they would not enforce this rule in the evenings when the parks are all emptying. I can just imagine the anger at tired people being told that a half empty bus has to leave without them.

But then, I'm a wimp. ;)

[videogal1]

Wow, this is amazing. I have to admit, however, that I would hope they would not enforce this rule in the evenings when the parks are all emptying. I can just imagine the anger at tired people being told that a half empty bus has to leave without them.

But then, I'm a wimp. ;)

Imagine being in a wheelchair in this situation and the bus driver lets everyone else on but says the lift is not working...please wait (an undetermined amount of time) for the next bus with a working lift...:confused3

[crashbb]

I understand the example where no wheelchair users could get on - to be fair, no non-wheelchair users could get on. It gets a little murky (to me) in the situation described in the OP.

Two wheelchair users (and, presumably their traveling companions) got onto the bus. So, two-thirds of those waiting in the wheelchair line got on (assuming equal number of traveling companions). However, no one from the non-wheelchair line got on. Strictly speaking, that is not equivalent service.

[kaytieeldr]

I had some transportation issues last September, and ended up speaking with several different Transportation CMs at various times during my visit. I asked two or three of them this specific question but they were each adept at avoiding an absolute response.

[Andrew Bichard]

I have just returned from WDW with a couple of observations:-

This trip there seemed to be more ramp buses in operation and fewer lift style buses. The lifts on the older buses seem much less reliable. I never encountered a bus lift that failed to get me on, but twice had lifts that gave up with me 75% up. On each occasion I was lowered down, and the second attempt to lift me was successful. I would guess that lift maintenance is being scaled down as the buses approach retirement and replacement.

On one ocassion waiting for a bus Wilderness Lodge to Disney Studios late afternoon, The bus already had two wheelchairs/ECVs on board. Driver radioed for a second bus which arrived a few minutes later. After dropping two passengers at campground, I was only passenger. Driver asked if Studios was my final destination, or if I was going there to transfer. I told him I was going to ride the path to Beach Club so he took me straight there instead.

Andrew

[mgilmer]

It may be a Disney policy, but it is not Federal law. I do not believe that it is Florida law either from disability attorneys there I have spoken to. In any event, it is stupid if a Disney policy and just plain stupid if it is not. Just because the bus may be filled in all its disability slots does not mean Disney (or any other entity) should contribute to air pollution and global warming by running a partially full bus.

[mgilmer]

Just to add, I do believe that any driver who refuses on some canard to not load a disabled individual on a pretext that his bus lift is broken, should be disciplined or fired. Also, another bus should be called if there are more disabled waiting than room on the bus.

[Schmeck]

The others not allowed to board may also claim that the disabled received 'superior service' which is not allowed under the ADA - if two guests were allowed to board because they were disabled, and no others were allowed, then superior service could be claimed, and WDW could be sued.

I'd be interested to see how it would be called - it's not like no one with a disability was allowed on, just that the two spots were used. It's not like everyone, disabled or not, always gets on the first bus that pulls up.

What if there were 3-4 guests in ECVs and wheelchairs in one party, and the party was 10 people? How would that play out? Two guests in ECVs get on, and no one else is allowed, right, even people in that party who are able bodied?

[dolphingirl47]

In the case that I observed, the travelling party of the people on the ECVs were allowed to get on the bus (from memory three people total).

Corinna

[maroo]

While I think that it is admirable that Disney did this...If it was my friends/family that were waiting...we would ask the CM to let the rest of the people load (unless it was, in fact, against the law). We would hate to have other people wait just because we had a disabled member of our party?

I get the whole equality thing...but it just seems sorta crappy for the people waiting? The party with the w/c will already have to wait? :confused3

We will be staying at the AKL in December. There is a conference in Disney that will attract disabled guests (as it is focused on a particular disability)...I wonder if Disney will take that into consideration for the buses going to that resort? The conference resort is CSR.

[kaytieeldr]

Just to add, I do believe that any driver who refuses on some canard to not load a disabled individual on a pretext that his bus lift is broken, should be disciplined or fired. Also, another bus should be called if there are more disabled waiting than room on the bus.
I respectfully disagree. This would provide the disabled Guest/s extraordinary service or treatment in comparison to the other Guests - unless it was Disney's policy to have a second bus called ANY time there are Guests left waiting at a bus stop... which it's not.

However, if the lift is broken - and it happens (it happened to me more than once on my last trip - the driver DOES call for another bus. With the older buses, with the lifts with the 'lip' on them, the mechanism is extremely fussy. If it doesn't sense absolutely flat ground for whatever reason, it will not work.

Of course this doesn't excuse the driver who claimed his bus was too full for me - not that the wheelchair spots were taken, but that there were too many people on the bus for him to allow me to board - yet took all the on-foot Guests. Nor does it excuse the driver with such a bad attitude (okay, fine - combined with my perhaps slight oversensitivity) that I demanded to be let off the bus before she could tie down the ECV...

[aubriee]

We will be staying at the AKL in December. There is a conference in Disney that will attract disabled guests (as it is focused on a particular disability)...I wonder if Disney will take that into consideration for the buses going to that resort? The conference resort is CSR.

When is this conference at CSR? We'll be at CSR Dec 12th-20th. We won't be at the conference, but will have my mom with us in an ECV.:eek:

[maroo]

When is this conference at CSR? We'll be at CSR Dec 12th-20th. We won't be at the conference, but will have my mom with us in an ECV.:eek:

eek.

It is an MPS conference. Mucopolysaccharidosis.

Many of the people affected with the disease are able to walk - but I am sure there will be lots of wheelchairs - especially since many will take a chair for the long distances of WDW.

I think the actual conference is Thursday - Saturday (ETA - the Thurs - Sat that you will be there)? But the discounts on the rooms go that week before and a few days after, I believe.

It should not be big conference. MPS is rare. But it is a national or maybe international conference?

My hunch is that CSR is so big...that you probably won't even see them? We are actually staying at AKL and making a "vacation" out of it. But I was staying at CSR, I think I would call Disney Transportation and at least mention it. :confused3 Disney is wonderful with the way they handle disabilities and I am sure they will do everything in their power to put the buses with 3 HA spots on that route for the week? Once they gauge how many people are in wheelchairs for the conference.

I think they have conferences like this a lot in Disney. It is a great destination for families affected by disabilities.

[Janell]

The three times I have been to WDW, we have had a person on an ECV in our party. There have been a time that the lift didn't work. The bus driver still loaded people on and called for another bus, which was there with in 5-10 min.

I have been on an ECV, been the third in the ECV line. The bus loaded the first two. I was told the bus driver called another bus(which again showed in 5-10 min) The bus driver loaded other people on the bus till it was full.

I have never seen it where they wouldn't allow the non-wheel chair guest on because a wheel chair was still waiting.

[aubriee]

eek.

It is an MPS conference. Mucopolysaccharidosis.

I think the actual conference is Thursday - Saturday (ETA - the Thurs - Sat that you will be there)? But the discounts on the rooms go that week before and a few days after, I believe.

It should not be big conference. MPS is rare. But it is a national or maybe international conference?

But I was staying at CSR, I think I would call Disney Transportation and at least mention it. :confused3 Disney is wonderful with the way they handle disabilities and I am sure they will do everything in their power to put the buses with 3 HA spots on that route for the week? Once they gauge how many people are in wheelchairs for the conference.

QUOTE]

Thanks for the heads up! We currently have a request in for the Cabanas, which means we would catch the bus at Bus stop four (third stop). I may call down there and change our room request to Casitas 4 or 5, so we'll be at Bus stop two (first stop).

[QUOTE=Janell;34150482]The three times I have been to WDW, we have had a person on an ECV in our party. There have been a time that the lift didn't work. The bus driver still loaded people on and called for another bus, which was there with in 5-10 min.

I have been on an ECV, been the third in the ECV line. The bus loaded the first two. I was told the bus driver called another bus(which again showed in 5-10 min) The bus driver loaded other people on the bus till it was full.

I have never seen it where they wouldn't allow the non-wheel chair guest on because a wheel chair was still waiting.

Same here!

[disfan07]

I thought the rule was if they can't load any at all than they don't load anyone.
so for example if they get to a bus stop and they can't load any wheelchairs or ECVs than they can't load anyone but if they get to a bus stop and there are 3 people in ECVs but they can only load 2 than they could load other people.
That was the case we ran into last time we stayed at Assp once.
There were 3 people on ECVs but the bus only fit 2 so they loaded the 2 adn than loaded the rest of the people. We were not able to get on (too many people) but there was another bus there in like 10 minutes so i dont know if the bus driver radioed for another one or what but no one seemed to be upset over it.

[thop529]

I have always been teated very well by the bus drivers at WDW, except for 1 time.

Never in my life have I encounterd such a lazy human being. I think you could have heard me screaming at him clear back to Ohio. He humiliated me, by telling me it didn't look like there was anything wrong with me that I needed to be in a motorized wheelchair, he told me to come up the ramp backwards, I tried to explain to him that I knew my chair and how it worked and I wouldn't flip, he then told me I wasn't getting on "His bus". I looked at him and said..."Watch me" I pulled on, got in my space. When he was tying my chair down he was actually trying to find something to break on it. A few people on the bus were even making comments to him about things. He barked something at them, and when he was done tying the chair down he growled at me.

I got off that bus at my resort and went right to the front desk. They helped me get in touch with the supervisor, and the supervisor told me that wasn't the first complaint they had about that driver that day. He was a not job.

[PrincessSuzanne]

I have never had this experience, the bus drivers ALWAYS pack the buses just as full as they possibly can. We have only had one where the ramp didn't work and the bus driver honestly made every attempt possible to make it work and when he couldn't, he called for another bus, I think the other passengers were mad, but the bus driver didn't seem to care.

I believe it was Dec 08 at AKL, there was me and an older lady both of us on ECV's at the bus stop, the bus driver loaded the lady as she was at the bus stop first, then told me he couldn't load me, because of the space he loaded her on, I was not letting him leave without getting me on, because we had already waited a long time for the buses to start running, but we had a breakfast ressie, and I don't believe there was anyone else waiting, except the 4 of us. I have never had such issues, except that stay at AKL.

Suzanne