New Camper - 2009 Keystone Outback 210RS

[ftwildernessguy]

So I went to the dealer today intending on looking at the Starcraft Autumn Ridge 235FB and ended up buying a 2009 Keystone Outback 210RS. I understand there have been some issues with the rear slide inside supports and am wondering if anybody has any feedback re. any problems with this unit. Probably like locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen, but at least I will be able to look for specific problems before I take it off the lot. So fire away!

[LONE-STAR]

Congrat now say the heck with that motel and drag it to the Fort.

[liv luvs disney]

WHAT?!?!?!?!

My memory may be a little fuzzy here, but is this not like the third different brand you've talked about in the last 3-4 weeks? What happened to the one with all the counter space? I don't recall Keystone being in the mix. I'm thinking Donnie has had some problems with the slide on his and Keystone wouldn't honor the warranty. Don't quote me...I'm sure he'll give his experience. And I know someone else on here recently bought a Keystone, though for the life of me I can't remember who. Before he took it out for their first camping trip, it was already leaking. Got it fixed and it leaked again. Don't remember much after that.

May I buy your Kiwi?

[2goofycampers]

Congrat now say the heck with that motel and drag it to the Fort.

DITTO, :thumbsup2

break that puppy in right, :thumbsup2

CONGRATS JIM !!



sorry Denise,,this is Frank.

[ftwildernessguy]

WHAT?!?!?!?!

My memory may be a little fuzzy here, but is this not like the third different brand you've talked about in the last 3-4 weeks? What happened to the one with all the counter space? I don't recall Keystone being in the mix. I'm thinking Donnie has had some problems with the slide on his and Keystone wouldn't honor the warranty. Don't quote me...I'm sure he'll give his experience. And I know someone else on here recently bought a Keystone, though for the life of me I can't remember who. Before he took it out for their first camping trip, it was already leaking. Got it fixed and it leaked again. Don't remember much after that.

May I buy your Kiwi?

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know about Donnie's problem and Dan had the leakage issues. This one has been sitting on the dealer's lot all year and we have had some pretty hefty rain, and there was no indication of leakage anywhere. I think Donnie had some delamination issues, too, which is not unheard of with any laminated wall camper. I have dealt with this dealer before, and he is a pretty straight shooter, so I am not too worried about getting service if necessary. I have heard of issues with the rear slide in these - the tracks coming down inside on the roof, but I think a lot of this was due to abuse (people using the bed on the slide when it was closed), which Keystone doesn't recommend. The unit looked solid in all the critical problem areas, and I just couldn't come close with any other unit for the money as far as build was concerned. I liked the closed in underbelly, too, since that will increase the camping season for us in the cold, white north. There are a few things I am going to do to it pretty quick, like use eternabond on the roof seams, and replace the outside storage door gaskets. I gotta check the tires, too, and see where they were made - probably Chinese crap.

[des1954]

Congrats, Jim! I agree that you need to break it in at FtW. I don't think you could get any ressies for Halloween now, but, try some time in January. By then you will be sick of cold weather & will need some Fort time. January is a nice time to come to the Fort!!! :thumbsup2

[ftwildernessguy]

Congrats, Jim! I agree that you need to break it in at FtW. I don't think you could get any ressies for Halloween now, but, try some time in January. By then you will be sick of cold weather & will need some Fort time. January is a nice time to come to the Fort!!! :thumbsup2

But, January is a crappy time to tow a trailer in PA.

[stacktester]

My slide has a bracket that is bent and the slide doesn't go all the way out in the back. About 2 inches shy but it's not really noticable. I've become my own mechanic pretty much. I don't take it to the dealer anymore because all Keystone says is no. My next camper won't be a Keystone. 3 campers, all Keystones and they don't back anything up. It's hard to tell anybody what to buy. Jim will find out by owning it. Hopefully he won't have problems. If I knew what I know now, I'd have started a mobile rv repair biz on the side lol.

[ftwildernessguy]

My slide has a bracket that is bent and the slide doesn't go all the way out in the back. About 2 inches shy but it's not really noticable. I've become my own mechanic pretty much. I don't take it to the dealer anymore because all Keystone says is no. My next camper won't be a Keystone. 3 campers, all Keystones and they don't back anything up. It's hard to tell anybody what to buy. Jim will find out by owning it. Hopefully he won't have problems. If I knew what I know now, I'd have started a mobile rv repair biz on the side lol.

I pretty much do most of my own repairs, anyway, Donnie. I have found that I can do a better job than most of the high school kids they have as RV techs today.

So your rear slide won't allow you to latch it when it's open? There are two latches on the 21RS which look like the latches that hold the bunk ends closed on my Kiwi - screw type latches with rubber pads that fit on metal rims on the bottom of the inside frame of the slide. What bracket is bent?

[4mickey2]

CONGRATS, JIM..i can't believe you got rid of the kiwi.

[keylime359]

We bought a Keystone in June and have had problems with it. I will say though that a *real* pre-delivery walk through from the dealer would have avoided all issues. Mind you this is a 2010. The A/C was broken and the hot water electrical element was never hooked up. When we went to use the hot water (not knowing that it was not there) we blew the "motherboard" So, Keystone said it was our fault that it went bad because it was user error. Long story short I fought it. I got it fixed as well as a new A/C, new rims (they rusted) a new rear jack (it was crooked) and new covers for my amber and red lights because they cracked. I have always liked the Keystone because they look so nice. I do believe that it was you that had me hell bent on a Jayco however! They were just to darn heavy.

[disney4dan]

We did have some leaking issues (pretty bad leaking too), but the dealer got the leaks fixed in the first two weeks.

One thing that I have noticed about our particular Keystone that is annoying and sometimes problematic is how low the plumbing is where you connect to dump the grey and black tanks. First noticed at a KOA where we could not keep the slinky hose on our expanding "bridge" type support because it would not fit under the connection.

This most recent trip I just noticed that I could not even get the blue tote under the fitting to empty the grey water into it. We were staying at a state park with water/electric but no sewer. We have a 30-gal tag along tote that you can use to transport the liquid to the dump station without having to move the trailer.

In any case, hope you enjoy the new trailer and that everything holds up well. Post photos when you get a chance.

[keylime359]

OHHHHH I forgot about the worst problem! Or I blocked it out- yeah thats it. Keystone mixed up the black and gray lines. One can only guess how I found out they were wrong. :mad: Yeah, you might want to check that before it is *full*. Just sayin

[We4mickey]

Cancel that condo and get it to the fort Jim!:goodvibes

[stacktester]

We did have some leaking issues (pretty bad leaking too), but the dealer got the leaks fixed in the first two weeks.

One thing that I have noticed about our particular Keystone that is annoying and sometimes problematic is how low the plumbing is where you connect to dump the grey and black tanks. First noticed at a KOA where we could not keep the slinky hose on our expanding "bridge" type support because it would not fit under the connection.

Dan, the 2nd camper I had was a Keystone Hobbi 22' Toy Hauler. It was really sharp on the outside but the sleeping was not comfortable at all. It was made to rough it I guess.

The sewer and gray water were behind the back left tire and I had to crawl under to hook up and pull the valves. It wasn't bad at the fort but if you were at a dump station crawling in what you know was once sewer water is not that fun. I tried to extend it but the elbows I tried went the wrong way or were too long. I was never so happy to see a camper go as that one. If I had it to do all over I'd have kept my 21' Tailgator and called it a day.

[medic9016]

Congrats Jim. I have been looking at the Keystone Fuzion toyhauler line.

[liv luvs disney]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know about Donnie's problem and Dan had the leakage issues. This one has been sitting on the dealer's lot all year and we have had some pretty hefty rain, and there was no indication of leakage anywhere. I think Donnie had some delamination issues, too, which is not unheard of with any laminated wall camper. I have dealt with this dealer before, and he is a pretty straight shooter, so I am not too worried about getting service if necessary. I have heard of issues with the rear slide in these - the tracks coming down inside on the roof, but I think a lot of this was due to abuse (people using the bed on the slide when it was closed), which Keystone doesn't recommend. The unit looked solid in all the critical problem areas, and I just couldn't come close with any other unit for the money as far as build was concerned. I liked the closed in underbelly, too, since that will increase the camping season for us in the cold, white north. There are a few things I am going to do to it pretty quick, like use eternabond on the roof seams, and replace the outside storage door gaskets. I gotta check the tires, too, and see where they were made - probably Chinese crap.

But you didn't answer my question...May I buy your Kiwi?

Ironically, I went to a local Jayco dealer today and looked at their hybrids. They had a used Starcraft that I would not have given my left shoe for, but had 3 awesome brand new Jaycos.:lovestruc I liked the 23B best, but at $25,000, I'll have to pass. It also would be pushing our towning capacity, which I don't want to do. The 19H was nice, though not as roomy. It weighed less, but it had a steep price tag as well. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not meant to be for us to get our own camper this year.:rolleyes1

I know you'll enjoy your new Keystone and you sound pretty darn handy, so I am sure you'll tackle any potential problems head on with no problem. Post some pictures as soon as you can...preferably before you leave for the GG!

[disney4dan]

Jim,

Check the water heater in the new rig. Am in the process of trying to add the winterizing bypass kit and just found that they installed a 1" black steel nipple between the aluminum casting on the water heater and the nylon fittings.

Half hour so far and I can't get that thing to free up, thinking I may bring it back to the dealer and have them remove it. DW reminded me, if I crack that casting, I own the water heater. If they crack it, we get a replacement. It may have already corroded in place. I'm no expert, but I recall someone warning me to not put any steel in contact with that aluminum or they will bond and eventually crack the aluminum.

Going back with a cup of coffee in hand and more patience... Must have more patience... Finding my Happy Place now...:lmao:

[Born 2 Fish]

Kungaloosh Keystone ??
Keystone Kungaloosh ??

Hmmmm, :confused3

[stacktester]

But you didn't answer my question...May I buy your Kiwi?

Ironically, I went to a local Jayco dealer today and looked at their hybrids. They had a used Starcraft that I would not have given my left shoe for, but had 3 awesome brand new Jaycos.:lovestruc I liked the 23B best, but at $25,000, I'll have to pass. It also would be pushing our towning capacity, which I don't want to do. The 19H was nice, though not as roomy. It weighed less, but it had a steep price tag as well. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not meant to be for us to get our own camper this year.:rolleyes1

I know you'll enjoy your new Keystone and you sound pretty darn handy, so I am sure you'll tackle any potential problems head on with no problem. Post some pictures as soon as you can...preferably before you leave for the GG!

Olivia, Right now is probably the best time to buy a camper. Take your time and look for a used one in excellent condition. There's plenty out there. No need to pay a dealer huge fees if they won't make a deal.

[disney4dan]

Keep looking Olivia, the deals are out there. I checked our local dealer price on that Jayco 23B, and it was about the same price as what you quoted. However, that was for the 2010 model. They did not have any 2009 23B models listed, but this dealer had steep cuts in the price for other 2009 models. They had a Jayco 26BH for $19,600 and when we purchased our trailer in the summer they had a Jayco 29BH new 2009 leftover for $18,500. I know those trailers aren't the model you were looking for, but just a comparison on price drop. Maybe the style you are looking at holds it's value better?

[ftwildernessguy]

I picked up the Outback for almost 8,000 off. That's why I did the deal. It was a leftover 2009. The last three trailers I have bought have been leftovers - you can save thousands. Re. the water heater - I have been told the bypass has been installed already, but I will have to check to be sure. I will take possession on 9 November.

Liv - If the Kiwi were still in good shape, I would keep it. I had floor rot issues which I have repaired, but am wondering if this is just the start of things to come. I would not feel real warm and fuzzy selling it to someone I know, so it is being traded in for the Outback.

[disney4dan]

Hey Jim, I found after my initial post that my trailer also had a water heater bypass, but not a type I was familiar with. It has a single valve on the cold supply, the tube up to the hot water line, and I figured something was missing because there was no bypass three way valve at the top.

However, they have an in-line brass check valve that would prevent the hot water line from flowing back into the heater.

I just need to replace the steel pipe section with nylon and I'm good to go.

Also, at the water pump, mine did not have NPT connections on the pump, they are a quick release type so I was not able to thread on the antifreeze siphon kit. Solved that problem by completely emptying the fresh water tank and dumping 3 gallons of antifreeze into the tank, pumping it through.

So much for the $40 on parts I thought I needed. Should have figured this out before I opened the packages. :rolleyes1.

[liv luvs disney]

Keep looking Olivia, the deals are out there. I checked our local dealer price on that Jayco 23B, and it was about the same price as what you quoted. However, that was for the 2010 model. They did not have any 2009 23B models listed, but this dealer had steep cuts in the price for other 2009 models. They had a Jayco 26BH for $19,600 and when we purchased our trailer in the summer they had a Jayco 29BH new 2009 leftover for $18,500. I know those trailers aren't the model you were looking for, but just a comparison on price drop. Maybe the style you are looking at holds it's value better?

I am trying to be optimistic here, but I'm losing hope. On Tuesday I took my oldest to get braces and wrote out a $3900 check for that.:eek: As we were leaving the orthodontist's office, a guy from a local dealer that I have not heard from in 2 months called to tell me that he just got in a used hybrid on trade. We went by to look at it. It's a 2007 so it's more than we want to spend, but it's a NICE hybrid so it's definitely something to consider. Yesterday I had a doctor's appointment and found out that I have to have surgery...next week. It's been a possibility for a long time, but now it's a must. I had to write a $1200 check to the surgeon for her part and I'll have to pay the hospital and anesthesiologist later.

What took a year to save was gone in 24 hours. So with half of our savings gone and looking at a 6 week recovery, it might be spring before I can search again.:sad1:


Liv - If the Kiwi were still in good shape, I would keep it. I had floor rot issues which I have repaired, but am wondering if this is just the start of things to come. I would not feel real warm and fuzzy selling it to someone I know, so it is being traded in for the Outback.

I knew you recently discovered some water damage, but I also know if you fixed it, it would be good enough for me. However, I am thinking the Kiwi would be a bit heavy for us to pull anyway. We are looking to get a new-to-us vehicle in the future for pulling a camper, but should we purchase a camper before then, it will have to be able to be pulled by what we currently own.

[stacktester]

Here's one Olivia to look at.



http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/rvs/1423746943.html

[liv luvs disney]

Here's one Olivia to look at.



http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/rvs/1423746943.html

Donnie I've seen that one. I'm on craigslist about as much as I'm on here. The problem I have now is I have depleted half of my savings and this time next week I'll be in the hospital with a 4-6 week recovery ahead of me.

A local dealer has an '07 Trail Cruiser 243S with the 3 pop out beds. My kids are small enough now that they technically could sleep together. But, my oldest just turned 13 and I doubt he really wants to to sleep with his sister. (Not that we let our kids have their way about everything.) He or she could sleep on the sofa as I would rather not have to make the table up every morning. With this 243S none of this would even be an issue. In fact, with the 3 beds, they could even bring a friend along from time to time. They're asking $13,496 and according to NADA, that's a fair price. It's in great condition. The couple that had it bought it new with 3 kids and just had twins. They upgraded to a bigger TT. Their TT has been ordered, but it's not in yet so this hybrid has not been advertised to the public. The salesman basically said if we wanted it, we could put a deposit on it and it would be ours after their new unit comes in some time in November.

That sounds like a great plan, but I am so anal about our budget. If I had not spent $5100 this week, this 243S would be my camper. I hate having OCD and being Type A. I really don't want a camper payment, but I realize that might not be possible. I never dreamed that looking for a camper would be such an emotional roller coaster!:rotfl:

[Luv2Camp]

We've never had a Keystone, but my parents have, and they never had any problems with it. We have a Gulfstream Conquest, and it's been nothing but problems. :headache:

[starbuc71]

We bought the Keystone Outback loft last year. A few of you might have seen us at the fort. Just about everyone there stops at our site to ask questions about it. The funniest thing on our last trip was that an older gentleman stopped by when i was looping with the GC and asked my wife to take a tour inside. She had to finally put her foot down. I thought it was funny, but she didn't...lol Anyways, We had 3 starcraft before owning the keystone. Night and day in my opinion. I always thought starcraft was the best until we got this one. Keystone pays alot of attenion to detail and has great floorplans. Knock on wood, we have had no problems yet. I do store it in a garage so no leaks as of yet. The R&D could have been a little better for the loft though ( bad latching system, no A/C, poor canvas storage when retracting). Probably why they quit making it for 2010. The big reason we bought it was because they dropped 15K off the MSRP out the door. We couldn't pass it up. We would buy another Keystone if we ever bouy another.

[SunshineCamper]

We too would buy another Keystone. We have a keystone Outback 2006 RS-bunks. The bunks and outside stove/sink were big selling points for us. We did have problems with it in the first 4 months. The electrical went out in our second trip. The tub wasn't sealed at the drain (we found out on our first trip out)-needless to say we had water pouring out into the "hallway":scared1:
Our "crank" (i don't know the name for it)...the "stick thingy"-love my wording?:lmao: that cranks the trailer up and down (leveling and hooking) the thing stopped cranking on the 3 trip out. We spent about 4 months driving back and forth to the dealer. 6 months later we headed out to CO and ever since we've had no problems! KNOCK ON WOOD!:thumbsup2

Never had a problem with leaks or with the queen bed slide out.
*starbuc71-I've seen your Outback at the Ft. a few times-once in loop 300-can't remember when it was since we go often. Our kids stop and stare at the loft and the fact we both have Toyota Tundras pulling the Outback.

I love the floor plan of most of them as well. Love the outback!!:love:

[bigdisneydaddy]

Jim, check the water faucets on the sinks and the showers, ours had a hard plastic gasket between the faucet and the sink/shower surround. The gasket does not deflect since its so hard and it will not seal properly, more noticable in the shower (leak) than the sinks. I had to remove the faucets and apply clear silicone to both sides of the gasket to get them to seal. I also re caulked the shower surround/pan joint, it leaked slightly due to a poor caulk job at the factory.