unconvinced dh is back and it's not pretty

[kathyg]

ok you guys....I need your help again!

Hope you remember my "unconvinced DH" who began to see the light. Well, he's downstairs, reading the BCV Public Offering Statement. What a mistake!!! He keeps calling me over and says, "listen to this", and proceeds to read all the language in the book that supports his position that this is a "blind deal"...like the ability to terminate the contract at any time prior to 2042.

I told him that 60,000 dvc members can't be wrong...he just keeps arguing with me.

Please, all others who have had a hard time convincing your DH/DW, let me know what the trick is. I really want to do this, but don't know how to get around Mr. Read Between the Lines.

HELP!!!!!

[dizfanz]

Hi Kathyg,

Just a side-note, I live in King of Prussia. Anyhow, to your challenge. I am a financial advisor and am heavily involved with sales that require contracts. You have to ask yourself, does he want it? If he is really against it, he will find something wrong. It doesn't matter that 60,000 of us are right. But I am a 26 year old guy who bought, without a wife or kids. I love Disney and can't wait for my trips "home" every year. I love packing and flying down, pulling up to the gate and hear "Welcome Home". That's the emotion he must have to buy. Someone buys based on emotion, not on logic. You support your decision with logic. Be emotional with him. Does he love Disney? If so, remind him of your trips there. How the kids will enjoy it. How much you like going to a certain restaurant. Sitting in France in Epcot drinking a glass of Burgundy.... Use your feminine charm. Once he says he would like to go back year after year. Then sit down and go over the math and you will convince him this is a solid investment. Tell him if you do not go down a certain year, you can sell your points, usually for $10 per point. Follow me. I have received a lot of training in sales and I am quite good. If he has never been to Disney, then you must go first. Rent points from a member and stay at a DVC resort. This is an absolute must for him. Good luck. Feel free to contact me if you have questions via Private Message.

[Pumbaa_]

Sorry he isnot convinced. We bought sight unseen in March (BCV). I relied primarily on information from the experts here. Maybe if he can articulate his specific concerns, you can get answers from the experts here.

I love the freedom of not having to constantly be reseraching the best room rates . I love knowing I will have a room with (at minimum) a refrigerator and a microwave. That is going to save us even more money.

We went into it because we love the EPCOT resort area and I did not want to spend $200-250 per night on a room. We have locked in our room price for the next 40 years. That was our primary concern.

Good Luck!

[PamOKW]

Disney has themselves covered in all kinds of legalese. There is now a 10+ year track record to look at. He does have to put a measure of confidence into the fact that Disney and WDW will continue to exist. If they don't, we'll probably have a lot worse problems than our timeshares. ;)

[Sims]

In 1991, I also read every detail of the Offering Statement and I told my spouse that this deal is too controlled by Disney. so we didn't buy. That was back when we could have bought at pre-construction prices!!!
Well, after seeing the completed product at OKW in 1993, we sat in the lounge at the Beach Club with soda and nuts and talked and talked about the decision of whether or not to buy. We decided to go ahead and join DVC. If we had decided two years earlier, we would have paid a lot less. Since then, we've bought an add on at OKW and we bought into BCV.
If you go to Disney every year, and if you stay at one of the deluxe hotels when you go, you are much better off as DVC members for price and comfort.

[disvaclub92]

When we purchased it in 1992 - we were engaged. The reason why we bought this was it was a guaranteed vacation for us every year. In addition, when we had children, they would always get to go to Disney.

I see the struggle of individuals who do not have DVC worrying about how much the trip will cost them, let alone the extra cash they will need to spend when they get down there.

Our guaranteed vacation is not like the individuals who are struggling to go to Disney. We go swimming with our kids (4 and 6), hang out around the Boardwalk, and people watch in EPCOT. We love going to Disney because we can relax, it is like another world - it is - Disney World. (lol)

Good Luck - and side note - I am from PA too.

[ncligs]

kathyg,

You can always post on the" Disney for Adults and Solo Travelers " and look for a new husband.;)
In all seriousness, just the fact there are some 60,000 DVC members (and counting) should tell him it is a safe investment for a Quality and 1st class accomadations." Good Luck" in your convincing.

[mickey7861]

My DH was against DVC at first also. I wanted to buy when they first opened and the park passes were included...he said NO. I couldn't even get him to take the tour. Well finally two years ago we were in WDW with friends who had recently purchased DVC. One trip to their 1 bedroom at the BWV was all it took to convince him. Once he saw the accomodations he went to the DVC sales office the next morning and we purchased. We don't really look at DVC as a "financial investment". We have gone to WDW each year since 1987 and we always stay onsite. DVC is cost effective for us since it will only take 3-4 years for our room cost (if paying cash for those trips we'd pay atleast $250 per night) to equal our point purchase. Then we're vacationing for the cost of dues...not bad.

Have you stay in a DVC unit yet. If not renting points for a vacation to see the actual rental units may be enough to convince him...it worked for my DH.

[ripleysmom]

kathy, too bad you can't take him to look at a model. Trust me that is the only convincing that he would need.

[R.J.'s Dad]

That's too bad. We bought sight unseen in 2001 at Wilderness Lodge. I had great reservations about joining what looked like a "timeshare" for 40 years, but joined because of one word: DISNEY!!!! I don't forsee Disney closing shop any time soon. I think you should take him to the models as well. Once you get a feel for what type of accomodations you will be in, you won't want to stay in a regular room again. Everything Disney has done for the last 50 years has been first rate- you have to trust them- Good luck!!

[vernon]

If he's set his mind on saying no and only took the documentation to pick holes in it and pretend he's been evenhanded about things then , IMHO your struggling. If he genuinely wants to understand the idea of what DVC offers ask him if he can put his mind to working out how your family can get the most out of the program.
With any legal undertaking with a big company there are going to be parts of the contract that are potentially unfavourable, as with everything you take a gamble on the trust you put into the organisation and the risk/reward of what your buying. To me the risk was minimal and the reward worth taking the small risk that Disney was going to go to the trouble and expense of setting up DVC in order to fleece honest citizens. I don't think that is Disney's aim so I was happy to buy in. Disney makes enough money from having us as repeat customers for the next 40 years for it to be worth them giving DVC owners a financial break on their future room costs.

[Granny]

As Pumbaa noted, it is difficult to help you respond to general negativity from your DH. If he has concerns, bring them to this group in the form of a question and you'll surely get opinions.

I agree that with any venture such as this there is a measure of trust. But even for those that want "just the facts", there is the 7-9 year breakeven that most DVCers have experienced. I put mine more in the 11 year category because I figure it very conservatively. Even then, it becomes a shorter term "risk" because after that, you've already gotten your "money's worth".

Good luck, kathyg!

[manning]

Well said Vernon. Anything you do in life has a risk to it. And those risks are constantly changing. Just like investing in the market, you take your best stab at it and hope for the best. You may make a killing or you may go bust. The same can be said for DVC. Except, however the outcome, you're going to have fun in the process.

Like the last line on the MasterCard commercial.

The smiles on the little ones faces and the memories...PRICELESS!!!

[erikthewise]

You just can't take the contract seriously as a description of reality. It was written by lawyers paid by Disney, not us, to protect Disney, not us, from lawsuits by "misguided" members. If he is cool with the Product Understanding sheet, he should not be distracted by the contract.

How did I put it? It says Disney can do anything short of arson, and we as members have no legal rights whatsoever. Even our points are reduced to an "administrative convenience". So what else is new? This is typical contract language. Any software user license is as bad or worse; if your husband took them as seriously, he would never use software.

If he wants legal parity with Disney, he's out of luck. If he wants into a terrific vacation plan, this is his chance.

[drtpaper]

I too, didn't see the benefit of joining dvc. If he is using the contract as a method of avoiding joining, you are in trouble. He is using it as a tool to avoid arguing the real issue. Does he really enjoy Disney? Does he want to go every other year, at least?

The only thing that convinced me was to actually stay in a two bedroom. If even for only a couple of nights. It took me two years after our stay to realize how nice it was. On planning on second trip and deciding where to stay, nothing could compare to our stay at Boardwalk. Having a kitchen, bedroom, big bathroom and wonderful location, you couldn't beat it.

You should also have him run the true cost of DVC. I ran the numbers and was amazed at how cost effective it was. If all you do is buy the points and sell them. It is paid off in less than 15 years, giving you 35 years of free vacations. I bought one last year, rented out the banked points, used the money to pay for airfare, food and tickets. Got a free vacation and could turnaround and sell it this year for more than I paid. Have him look at the appreciation and the resale value. Why would people being paying list price in the aftermarket if it weren't a good deal.

The last kicker is the forced vacation. Play to his fatherly side and tell him that you want to have a memorable vacation every year or so and this will make that happen.

Good Luck

[thepoohbear]

I'm ashamed to say that I was actually the family member who resisted. Now I have to wonder what the heck my problem was! We have done things that we would never have been able to do without DVC and I am just SO happy I caved.
We have friends who did WDW at least twice a year and we tried for two years to convince them. They finally bought and now all they say is they wish they had bought sooner.
I'm afraid for some of us we have to almost be forced into it. I know several people suggested renting. I would suggest that, too, but while you are there take the time to sit in the hot tub at night and talk to some of the members. I know I've never come across anyone who says anything besides "It was the best thing I've ever done" and then in the next breath says "besides marrying so and so" :) or something along those lines.
Oh, and if you do rent, try really hard to get a one bedroom (or two). He will be spoiled for life! :cool:

[fkj2]

I've been a member since 1992 and have added on several times at OKW, so I obviously think it's a good deal.

The economy being so unpredictable perhaps is contributing to your dh's hesitation. If that is part of the problem, I could understand that. If he has concerns over the financial obligations of owning DVC, they have to be addressed. Being a member isn't worth the stress of maintaining the mortgage and maintenance fees and should things not work out as well as you anticipate, well, you'll never (be allowed) to forget it.

Perhaps you should consider a resale. Certainly the posters here who have bought resales would offer you advice, Dean in particular I would think and that could allow you to buy in at a lower per point expense and the ability to negotiate with a potential seller. That way you might have a smaller financial obligation than buying into Beach Club Villas.

[maryp]

Two years ago, I made ressies at the Poly concierge for a week for two rooms.....almost $7000 at the time, if I remember correctly. That's a big chunk out of a dvc payment!! I brought totally unconvinced dh to WL to check out VWL when it opened. Even though still not happy, he caved and bought points for 2 weeks - 0ne for me to take grand kids, one week for just the 2 of us. Now he loves it! The peace and quiet is very relaxing for stressed dh, and I let him decide if and when we visit the parks or just enjoy our resort.
Needless to say, we cancelled the poly..best decision we've ever made!!

[Richyams]

I know, these get redundant, but we have never regretted buying in for a second. It allows os to vacation each and every year without having to budget for the trip.

Personally, I think marrying "so and so" was a close second to buying DVC.

[Richyams]

I just saw the sentence that I think sums it up best:

If he is cool with the Product Understanding sheet, he should not be distracted by the contract.

Think about it, if things are in the financial ruin it would take to collapse Disney, your DVC investment will probably be the least of your worries.

[TheRustyScupper]

People buy on emotion or logic. Occassionally on both.
You need to find things out.
(go on only if the answer to the preceeding question is yes)

Questions:
1) Will there be a WDW vacation every year or two years?
2) Will there be a big vacation elsewhere every one or two years?
3) Is the idea of a timeshare acceptable?
4) Is the price for the DVC timeshare reasonable?
5) Is the idea of no residual value a problem?

Possible objection answers to a "no" response:
1) Forget DVC. There is no way to overcome.
2) The II exchange abilities could be useful for other destinations.
3) If the answer is no, forget DVC.
4) See if another less expensive RCI timshare in Orlando is OK.
5) Try to buy a real-estate timeshare and not DVC.

By going through the question, you can find out where the objection really is. If you don't get straight-forward answers, forget the argument, as there is no firm objection to overcome. Afterall, maybe the problem isn't a timeshare, but being committed to WDW every year makes some people feel tied-down.

[KLR-wlv]

My husband was very reluctant when I wanted to buy. We went to HH and went to a sales presentation and before he had much time to start reading the contract (not a good thing for him to attempt...) we were signing. With young kids and living within a 7 hour drive to DW - I thought it was a no-brainer. I don't look at it as an investment. My husband got caught up with the expiration date - and if you are looking at it strictly as an "ownership" thing that becomes troubling. I look at is as 40 years of great vacations. We have stayed at 3 of the DVC properties since joining a little over a year ago and will be going again in Oct and Dec. They have been the best family vacations we've taken. And we get to take extended family and friends every now and then too. There is no way we'd be able to do any of that without joining.

Good luck!

[drusba]

Can't help you with the spouse. Can help on the stuff in the official documents. It is a lot of legalese and it is like stirring concrete with your eyes. However, if you read it all carefully , you will see Disney does not protect its own ____ as much as one might think. Take, for example, the termination issue you mention. After you finish reading everything you should understand that termination before 2042 can only occur in very limited circumstances, particularly: (a) the total destruction of the resort and it cannot be rebuilt (destruction is not enough; the inability to rebuild is also required); (b) 100% of the owners (meaning us) vote to terminate; (c) the property gets condemned and or taken over by the government through its powers of eminent domain; (d) the bankruptcy of the Disney entities; (e) 75% of the owners (meaning us) vote to kick out Disney as the management company (f) the termination of the lease of the property from the Disney parent to its subsidiary, DVD (and that termination can only occur before 2042 if one of the things mentioned above occurs). In other words, unless you believe one of the above will actually occur, don't be concerned about premature termination.

[Disney Doll]

MY DH looked at this every which way from Sunday when we bought into it in 1997 and he was unable to find anything that would have given him pause. A contract is always going to be scary...did you ever look at the papers you signed when you bought your house?????:eek: The bottom line is, if your DH is against the DVC, he's going to be able to find SOMETHING that will make it a negative.

[Tigger1]

It took me over a year to convince myself it was a good investment. I computed the amount I would pay if I were paying cash. Which is more than I can afford then I computed the cost that I would be paying per night if I owned DVC. This convinced me. It would be very hard to stay off site now. We get so much more.

I computed the cost for the 2 bedroom to be less than 2 studios at the all star. I have never stayed there, I am sure it is very nice but having 2 rooms together with a kitchen, living room, laundry ect is wonderful.

As far as all the clauses, I would think that all timeshares have those. I would doubt that Disney would ever exercise its rights to sell. It would upset to many of us.
Tigger

[dizfanz]

kathyg,

I renew my assurance that people buy on emotion. If anyone has trained under some of the top sales associates in the country, then I may bow to your opinion. But people buy on emotion, then support their deicision with logic. Do not argue with me on this. I have much experience and commission, which paid for my DVC purchase, to base this on. I know it sounds the same, but a legal cotract, which is logical, will not convince someone. The math or the money or "deal" will not convince someone, it is the experience that will. You have had to be at Disney, have a memory, taken a stroll on the boardwalk, slept in a hammock at the Poly. This is why you buy. Then you say well, this will save us $15,000 over the next 30 years. That's what you say to fall asleep at night, not what you say to yourself to convince you to buy. Two steps here, get it? Anyone who argues with me, but has bought DVC, only proves my point.

[Lars624]

dizfanz-
I couldn't agree more. I wanted the DVC so I would know that no matter what, I would always be going back! I'm one of those people who start planning what to do next year while I'm still enjoying this year's vacation. For me the DVC membership will be sort of like insurance.:p

[mapny]

kathyg,

One of the things to keep in mind when reading the Offering Circular is that things have to be described in the worst possible light. I am an attorney who used to write these types of documents and you have to state everything possible that can go wrong so that investors know the worst case scenario. It's hard not to get nervous when reading documents like that, but it helps to understand why it's written that way. Our only regret is that we didn't become members during our 1995 vacation!!

We have taken a WDW vacation the past four years - which we never would have done without being DVC members. We really like paying a set amount each month and then not having to worry about a large amount when we want to vacation. In between our WDW vacations, we have stayed twice in NYC using the Concierge Collection. We feel that we have gotten very good value for our purchase.

I see that you're from PA - the other nice thing is that there are many trading options in the Northeast, which may be more accessible in case you'd rather not travel to WDW.

Good luck!!!

[bongo59]

well tell your husband to read this ....I was him ...for 11 years......I almost bought OKW....I would have been member 22....I did not and refused 6 times over that timespan.....why now did we buy ......my wife saved the receipts for those trips and handed them to me while at wdw after our guide tour.......I spent 78 grand in 12 years.....enough to have ownedabout 1700 points at OKW in 1991........it is just simple math if you go once a year for 7-10 days.......

[BobH]

Find out what he wants to have as a vacation plan - whether it be a timeshare, a vacation home or just pay as you go and then compare that to DVC rather than simply punch holes in DVC.
I aree with the gentleman that says you buy on emotion and then justify your purchase but DVC is a good buy for what you risk in dollars. Good luck!