Major systematic problems with Oceaneer's club

[lance435]

We just got back from a 4 night cruise on the Disney Wonder and have to say what would have otherwise been an excellent cruise was completely soured by our experience with the Oceaneer's club on the ship.

While we understand that individual experiences will vary from cruise to cruise based on the particular counselors that are working and the demeanor of your child, we observed numerous issues with the structure of the club and how the counselors conducted themselves that came as a shock to us as we had not seen any complaints on these forums regarding this before our cruise.

In my opinion, the Oceaneer's club is simply not designed to care for children 5 and under or children who are somewhat shy. The ratio of children to counselors is much too high for children of this age. This problem is magnified by the fact that most of the counselors who are on duty are almost always clustered in the same areas (either watching the main activity or at the front desk), effectively increasing the child-to-counselor ratio even more.

In addition, we got the feeling that many of the counselors were there just because the kid's club was the only DCL job opening they could get. While there were a few counselors that seemed to have genuine interest and experience in working with kids, most seemed completely unqualified to be there and more interested in talking with each other or watching the main activity than interacting with the kids.

The counselors' handling of children who did not engage themselves in the main activity of the hour was also completely unacceptable. There seemed to be two methods of dealing with these children: either completely ignore them and leave them to sulk or cry in the corners by themselves (we saw 1-2 cases of this just about every time we visited) OR forcibly pick them up and drop them near the other children.

The counselors also fail to intervene and prevent the more rowdy children (and bullies) from knocking down the younger/smaller kids. We saw multiple cases of children getting pushed down or forced down the slide when they didn't want to go. No counselors were in sight to handle, let alone prevent, such situations. In fact, visiting parents were more likely to catch and stop these situations than the counselors.

The counselors' handling of such problems is also unacceptable. When a child got hurt or had a problem, the most common response we observed was for the counselor to say "oh, I'm sorry" and turn around and walk away. I would not be surprised to learn that DCL has settled several lawsuits out of court due to this behavior.

There is also a frightening lack of accountability and professionalism from most of the counselors as well. The prevailing attitude seems to be that it is a privilege for your child to attend the kid's club and it is the child's responsibility to notify a counselor of any problems (so don't blame the counselors for your child's lack of assertiveness!). But since there is an ever-changing stream of new counselors coming and going throughout the day and since most of them fail to adequately respond to a child's problems when the child does speak up, the children quickly learn not to trust them and keep their problems to themselves. Older children who have several years of school under their belt and are comfortable in these situations will probably do ok, but for kids 5 and under, this simply does not work.

What is sad is that children really do seem to have a lot a fun at the club when they're not being ignored or getting pushed down. If DCL simply assigned some supervisors to oversee the club and ensure all children were being watched and all counselors were actually serving a useful purpose while they were there, a lot of these problems could be solved.

However, based on the quality of counselors employed by DCL for the kid's club and the extremely limited space on the comment card dedicated to the kids club, I get the distinct impression that the kid's clubs are pretty far down the priority list for DCL so these needed changes are unlikely to occur.

What we found even more depressing though was the attitude of a lot of the parents who dumped their kids at the club. We saw several cases of parents checking in their crying children who did want to go and even more crying kids being checked out complaining that they had been pushed down or that nobody would play with them. If the parents don't care enough to demand better care from the kid's club, then DCL really has no motivation to make any changes.

For us, the quality of the kids club was the primary reason we booked DCL instead of another cruise line. Any cruise line can offer a "kid's club" that simply acts as a place for parents to dump their kids while they go get a drink, but we thought Disney offered something better than this. Unfortunately, once you remove the glossy Disney wrapping and character appearances from the Oceaneer's club, what you're left with is exactly that. Based on our experience, we will probably never cruise with DCL again. The price premium you have to pay simply isn't worth it.

I'm curious to hear from other parents who had 4 or 5 year olds attend the Oceaneer's club. Did you not observe any of these problems?

[camarks1234]

I had a negative experience in Feb. now my child was in Oceaneers Lab and we were on his Make A Wish trip. So just saying, he has already seen a lot of trauma in his life and is lucky to be here.

So he accidentally went to the Oceaneers Club instead of the lab, just a mistake because they both start with Oceaneers. The counselors at the club were very unfriendly to him and made him cry (which he does not do easily). Then he got turned around and was wandering the ship by himself crying because the counselors at the club couldn't even be nice or help him to find the lab.

When I finally located him and got him calmed down I want up to the lab and reported the incident and no one seemed to give a care. Needless to say he didn't want to spend anymore time at the lab.

I have to say I was floored because our whole experience on the ship was absolutely pure magic and wonderful besides that incident. It makes me sad to hear about your bad experience. DCL should definitely do something.

[kcashner]

WOW! Can I make a suggestion? Copy your post in a letter or e-mail to DCL.

My DD loved the Oceaneer's Club on the Magic (never was there on the WOnder), but that was many years ago. I have no current experience with that age group. However, I do know that DCL takes guest feedback very seriously. PLEASE don't let this drop with a frustrated post in a public forum (yes, we know there are DCL personnel lurking here, but....) Please send it where it can do some good!

[aidtrismommy]

I just got off the Magic on Aug 29th and had a great experience in the club. My son is three and I spent a great deal of time in there because I mainly stayed there with him to watch him. I did check him in 3-4 times and leave him alone as well. What I observed was there was always 1 or 2 people checking in and out, there was always 1 person standing in front of the bathrooms, when the slide was open there was always 1 person at the top of the slide and 1 person at the bottom. They closed the slide/climbing area and Captains closet everytime they had an activity going on to encourage everyone to participate. If kids did not want to, they were limited to the other smaller slide area and the video and of course had the rest of the area to run around in. Many times, they split up the group to 3-4's and 5-7's. I thought this was great. They had about 4 counselors for all the 3-4's and about the same for the 5-7's. This was usually in the evening when it got much busier. I never saw a crying child not being held. Those times that I did leave my son alone, I went back to peek in on him to make sure he was alright. One time I spotted him in the captains closet doing puzzles with 2 other children and a counselor. It was really a great experience and I was really impressed with it. Maybe there is a difference because it is a longer cruise where the counselors get to really know the children, especially the ones who were in their a lot. Maybe some other posters can share their experiences on the Magic and see if that may be the difference.

[emma'smom]

We used the Oceaneer's Club in May 2009...and my girls had a great time. They begged to go back over and over! Counselors were friendly, enthusiastic, and thoughtful...great activities that were age-appropriate for both my 4 year old and my 7 year old (in different groups). They loved it all...we visited with them on the first night to get the lay of the land. By the next morning, my dd4 was showing me how things worked.

At one point, dd4 got lost on the pool deck (on my watch....not when she was at the club). A CM found her wandering around and after they couldn't locate us quickly (because we were wandering around looking for her), the took her to the Club where they welcomed her and reassured her that we would be down to find her soon. By the time we arrived, she was off watching a movie with some other kids and a CM.

We're heading on a 2 week long trip next April and dd4 will be 5 by then. They are really looking foward to it. Dd7 will be in the lab next time.....

[bones]

we just got off the wonder yesterday maybe same cruise(?) and my 12 y.o was not impressed with the lab either. In his opinion the lab was geared to the younger children and ignoring his experience. He also complained that a counselor had an attitude and that he was kinda ignored. He wants to go back to Princess cruise, surprised the heck outta me.

[danceteacher]

I too found the ratios disturbing. My kids didn't "love" the clubs. The older one (6 at the time) was ok, but my younger one (3) wouldn't even stay with me. She said it was too scary. She is shy, yes, but I would have appreciated it if someone would have tried with her. To be fair, I'm not sure that they didn't try. But she sure didn't have fun. I felt the counselors were surrounding the check in point as well. Don't get me wrong, we had a great cruise, but I think something else should be done with the little ones too!

[flexsmom]

My now 10-yr old DD has been in the Lab 3 times, and was in the Club twice, the first time at age 3 1/2. My now 6-yr old DS has been in Flounders once, and the Club twice. We've done both the Wonder and the Magic.

I have had only one incident occur where I definitely sensed the CM attitude you describe, and it was at Scuttles Cove when no one could find my son. Turns out he saw me come in and round up DD, so he went to the entrace.....and the CM let him out! He was sitting on the bench at the Scuttles Cove desk, but I couldn't see him from inside. There was one CM who was really trying to help me find him, but when we finally did, NONE of them thought there was anything odd about what had happened.

Beyond this - my kids love the clubs, they beg to go, and they also have always joined in all of the activities, so perhaps that is why we've never had - or noticed - a problem. I sat in a jacuzzi late one night with a Club CM and she told us all about why she took the job, her early childhood education focus, you-name-it. I got the sense that there are many of the CMs who are really focused on their role in that capacity - and I'm sure there are some who are not.

[Melcatfish]

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences. We have only cruised the Wonder in our pre kids days, we were just on the Aug 15th Magic cruise and my 4 year old DD LOVED the club and I was really impressed with the staff in the Oceaneers Club - perhaps they need to get some of the Magic Youth Staff to train up the Wonder ones that you describe.

I felt the level of interaction was good and the friendship and relationship that my daughter enjoyed with the counsellers far exceded my expectations - I cried on the Friday night when she was saying goodbye!

I would definitely write your post into a letter to DCL - they need to know that there was a problem and that they failed to meet your expectations. If you don't alert them to the problem things carry on as they are.

Mel
x

[WendyKnowlton]

I've now heard too many stories. Unglued does not cover my reaction if something like that happened to my kid. I'm NOT signing up for any childrens services. :mad:

[been2marceline]

WOW! Can I make a suggestion? Copy your post in a letter or e-mail to DCL.

My DD loved the Oceaneer's Club on the Magic (never was there on the WOnder), but that was many years ago. I have no current experience with that age group. However, I do know that DCL takes guest feedback very seriously. PLEASE don't let this drop with a frustrated post in a public forum (yes, we know there are DCL personnel lurking here, but....) Please send it where it can do some good!

I totally agree with kcashners recommendation - complain and complain loudly and often to DCL. If you get just "form letter" and it doesn't address your concerns - do not stop.

The one thing that I have learned is that as long as you keep complaining - Disney, in general, will eventually step up. It may not happen in a week or a month, but keep at them.

I have had a SERIOUS dispute going with DVC for almost 5 months - it just got resolved last week. Do not let up on them.

Unacceptable behavior is just that - unacceptable.

[JoiseyMom]

Wow, I am very suprised to hear these stories! We have been on 3 cruises, 2 with the kids and they loved loved loved the clubs and the cruise staff. They were all great with my kids.

I agree with pp that you should right to DCL. Also, if you have issues on the ship you should go to the CD, it is his job to supervise the cruise staff, including the counselors.

Seriously, take names and complain. DCL doesn't take complaints lightly and these people will be talked too and removed if needed!

[saffiebella]

I have posted about our not so great experience on the 8/27 Wonder with regard to the food and service, but this post touches upon something very crucial to all of us planning a Disney cruise. Most of us do so b/c we feel this cruise line among all others is best suited to address the wants and needs of our children. When Disney falls short in that department, that's when I know I am definitely booking elsewhere. My children were miserable at both Flounder's and the OC. I couldn't dare leave my 3 year old alone in that place and switcher her back to Flounder's. The advisor's were dim and barely alert. They hardly acknowledge the kids and the place was amuck with kids running around in circles w/o supervision. No way was I going to let her go near Scuttles Cove under their watch.

Disney's lax attitude toward physical pushing and bullying is confounding. My 3 year old was pushed down to the ground in front of my eyes and I was then bullied by the kid's parent who claimed he didn't see anything happen. The CM's did nothing b/c they "do not get involved with he said, she said situations" !!!! I was shocked, there are cameras everywhere on that ship it wouldn't have been difficult to see my little girl hit the floor and then proceed to cry herself to sleep. Not to mention the other parents who saw and heard everything from her fall, right down to the humongous man who was cursing at me and intimidating me in defense of his rotten kid. I seriously doubt this behavior would be tolerated in the parks.

I complained on the ship and spoke with their customer service once on land, but they had silly stock answers that were of no consolation. What more can I do?

[Pinkgurlshubby]

That is really too bad to hear of a few less than pleasureable experiences. We were on the Magic in October 2009 and had no issues. The CM's were great, we never felt once unwelcomed and we went lots. We found they took wonderful care of all the children.
Our little ones, were 4 and 6, would wake up and ask to go to"their clubs". Sometimes they split, other times they both stayed in the same spot.
We are looking forward to going back next year.

[breakingd_awn]

Geez! First the bad reports on the food...now this :scared1: I'm sorry some of you had such a bad experience, I hope we don't have any problems with the kids clubs when we go. I thought a Disney Cruise was supposed to be a childs dream come true?

[JoiseyMom]

Perceptions are different. I have read more good then bad. I know my kids were in the club and lab and quest and any issues that might have happened were addressed, and I found the staff very accommodating and helpful. They bent over backwards to make sure my kids were happy and having a great time.

[lance435]

After reading some of the replies to my original post, I think I should clarify a few things ...

Let's be honest ... it doesn't take much effort or skill to entertain younger kids when you have a cool playground, Disney movies playing non-stop on the TV, character appearances, and scripted activities throughout the day. In fact, most kids would probably have a blast hanging out in the club even if all of the counselors were totally incompetent or not even present.

But how many of you parents out there would feel comfortable dropping off your child at the club if it was just a play area with no adult supervision? Most kids would still have a good time, sure, but it would hard to have a good time as a parent knowing a problem might come up and no counselor would be there to handle it.

This is precisely why you can't just take someone off the street and expect them to be a quality childcare provider. Sure, just about anyone can check kids in and out of the club, queue up some movies on the TV and lead a scripted activity, but it takes genuine training and experience with children to prevent and handle problems that routinely arise such as bullying, shyness, and boredom. In my opinion, the majority of counselors employed on the Disney Wonder (at least at the time of our cruise) are simply unqualified for this.

My original post wasn't trying to imply that the kids club is so bad that your kids won't enjoy it or that anyone with kids should avoid DCL. Rather, my point is that, despite advertisements implying otherwise, the kids club is essentially an unsupervised playground where the onus is on your child to deal with any problems that arise, so parents should set their expectations accordingly.

Personally, we chose DCL (and justified its price premium) because we thought it would provide quality childcare and we were sorely disappointed. We likely won't sail with DCL again because we can get the same poor-to-mediocre childcare on just about any cruise line for a much lower price. For that reason I really have no motivation to follow up with DCL about my experience as many have suggested (although DCL did recently call to follow up, somewhat rudely, with the poor rating we gave on the comment card). If there had been only one or two problematic counselors or one specific incident, I might consider, but the problems I described are systematic and cannot be fixed by a DCL apology or superficial change to their policies so I really don't see the point.

[mjbucks1]

We were on the Aug 29th sailing on the Magic, as was an earlier poster. My kids (9 and 11) loved their respective clubs. The activities were very well planned for their age groups, and the councelor in my older son's group even called the kids together at one point to talk about respecting each other in the club. I definately think that this is a case where some of the individuals working may not be as good as others, and even if you have no plan on returning to DCL it would benefit others to make a complaint. I have always found Disney to take complaints seriously, and how can they fix something if they don't know about it? Just wanted to encourage you let Disney know (you may even get something for it!)

[yazee1]

I just want to tell the OP I am sorry his child experienced this on the Wonder. Our youngest child had just turned four on our first cruise. She's really tiny for age and everyone (except me) tends to baby her. Maybe, that's why she never lacked for attention in the Club. Don't know. While waiting to pick her up, we definitely witnessed some of the things you mentioned happening to other children.

On our daughter's first solo visit to the Club, she was, I think, a combination of tired and overwhelmed (no previous daycare-like experience) and after about an hour started crying and asking the counselors to get us. When we arrived, we had to wait our turn at the gate and it allowed a couple minutes to observe the room. The main activity involved all the little children and counselors sitting in a circle around a parachute. Our daughter, still sniffling, was cuddled in the lap of one of the sitting counselors. It was comforting to see that she was being consoled. If we had arrived to find her alone and in tears, or sitting alone on a bench crying her eyes out while she waited for us, it would have been a different story.

As it turned out, on the same cruise, it could have gone either way. Most of the time, we only dropped our daughter off when there was a specific activity in which she wanted to participate. Once, during an "at sea" day, we dropped her off without regard to the activity schedule just because she wanted us to. It must have been "free time" between activities. Swarms of little kids were running around, sliding, screaming, climbing, etc. We had to wait a few minutes to check her in, so we had time to watch. It was a zoo! I'm not saying this as someone who is unaccustomed to the site of hordes of little children enjoying free play. I went into the play area with her because I wasn't sure she would want join in at this point. What stands out in my mind is the memory of there being no CM supervision at the slide, and while there were CM's in the general area, to my uninformed eyes, it seemed like those CM's were avoiding the mayhem in the slide area. The play area was like someone described earlier with some kids pushing and shoving and demonstrating the chaos that results when no one supervises. One little boy was screaming in the ear of a little girl who was covering her head with her hands and crying. I couldn't NOT intervene there. Fortunately for me, no foul-mouthed parent verbally attacked me for doing so.

On that first cruise, our daughter enjoyed the memorable time she spent in the Club, but it wasn't without incident. She didn't escape the naturally uncouth behavior that preschoolers and kindergarteners subject each other too. She told us about being pushed down and how the kids wouldn't take turns in line and other such things. I don't expect the CM's to prevent all incidents, but because I saw first hand that adequate supervision was an issue at times, I can't help feeling that DCL can be doing better by our younger children.

[saffiebella]

I concur lance435, I have no desire to complain to DCL and be patronized with a lukewarm apology. Have you done any research into alternative cruise lines with programs for kids? Would you mind sharing? We are ready to begin planning our 2010 summer cruise : )

[lance435]

I definately think that this is a case where some of the individuals working may not be as good as others, and even if you have no plan on returning to DCL it would benefit others to make a complaint. I have always found Disney to take complaints seriously, and how can they fix something if they don't know about it? Just wanted to encourage you let Disney know (you may even get something for it!)

Like I stated above, this is not a problem of DCL being unaware of one or two problematic counselors or a particular incident that happened. The problem lies in DCL's employment practices, the way they have chosen to structure the kids club, and the amount of resources (or lack thereof) they have chosen to dedicate to quality childcare.

DCL has made a conscious decision to make things the way they are and they are well aware of the consequences of these decisions. And to be honest, based on some of the responses to this thread and what we observed from many of the parents on our cruise, most people don't really care about these shortcomings, so DCL has no motivation to improve.

When I filled out the comment card at the end of the cruise, I made it obvious that everything other than the childcare was great and that the childcare soured our overall experience and we are very unlikely to book DCL in the future as a result. Obviously this was enough to trigger a mandatory follow up phone call, but I wouldn't expect any meaningful changes from DCL until massive numbers of parents lodge similar complaints. In the end, DCL only cares how people vote with their wallets.

[anna08]

We observed and experienced these very same issues on our Wonder cruise back in Jan 09 - the OP's description was so similiar to our experience it could have been written by me!! My DD (at the time almost 4) and I are not new to childcare settings, and I understand how things can go awry anywhere children are, but I absolutely agree that the OC is NOT appropriate for 4 and unders.

I guess I was wrongly assuming that Disney would do all things concerning children with care and concern. We were rather astounded at the lack of interest the CMs had in the kids - there were several times that we saw kids crying alone, way too many kids for the number of staff present, and very little attention paid to whether you had the right child when you left! One girl walked up and was bleeding from having cut herself and the CM at the desk only asked "do you need a band-aid?" to a 5yo!! He never even looked at the cut. As a mom and a physician I was appalled.

After the third brief visit there (we only took her when we thought she would enjoy the activity scheduled), we felt it was too unsafe :confused: for her. I would venture to say that the majority of the CMs that work there have no special qualifications for childcare, and appeared to us to be no more than disinterested babysitters.

I'm sure our experience was just reflective of the staff present when we were on the ship, but i would recommend that parents hang out and observe a bit before they leave the real little ones there.

[kobesam]

We used the club on our cruise last year. DD was 5yrs old at the time. The club is just a glorified daycare centre. It is not worth the extra money you pay to go on Disney. In fact RCCL has a much better kids club and their counselors actualy care.

[loveysbydesign]

I'm wondering if the CM's are better on one ship than the other?
It seems like there are more complaints about the Wonder than the Magic. Perhaps that is because on the Wonder children are there for less days and therefore some of the CM's have more of an "I don't care" attitude as they know they be able to connect with the children. We went on our 1st Disney cruise this past May on the Magic and while my kids did like the clubs(ages 10 and 6) they were not overly thrilled with them and I think were a little let down. My 2 y.o. only went to Flounders once and was quite upset there so we ended up spending some on on one time with him while the other 2 were in the clubs, which was really nice! Now my kids did not spend a ton of time in the clubs as we spent alot of time together as a family on the pool deck and at the shows at night. That being said I did notice that some of the CM's seem to really love their job's while others seemed pretty nonchalant and almost "zombie-like".
I have my degree in Early Childhood Education/Early Intervention and do definately agree that Disney needs to take a fresh look at their kids clubs. They need to perhaps add more staff or at the least keep the staff who are there updated through child development training. Most of all they need to make sure that the CM's who are caring for the children love their job and want to be doing that job! They also need to make sure to take cruisers comments seriously! Word of mouth gets around as we all know!

[KSandbergFL]

My original post wasn't trying to imply that the kids club is so bad that your kids won't enjoy it or that anyone with kids should avoid DCL. Rather, my point is that, despite advertisements implying otherwise, the kids club is essentially an unsupervised playground where the onus is on your child to deal with any problems that arise, so parents should set their expectations accordingly.

While I don't necessarily agree with your points about the Kids Club personnel being "unqualified" (they seem more over-worked and exasperated than incompetent), I do agree that DCL has a "one size fits all" mentality regarding the kids clubs. They don't have any options for kids (like mine) who just don't enjoy large, noisy group activities. Quiet, introspective kids (especially kids who have never been in day care) will feel intimidated and over-whelmed by the large group size and the noise levels.

I would like the Kids Clubs to have a separate "quiet area", for kids who just want to color or play Legos. The area next to the "Flubber lab" could be sealed off further, and re-designed as a Quiet Room for quiet free play... it shouldn't require more than one DCL staffer to be present.

Our son is 7 now, and on our last cruise we didnt even use the kids club at all. When he needed "down time" we'd just head back to our room, and he would watch cartoons on TV... while mom and me would take turns going to the spa, or drink some wine together on our verandah. It worked out nice for everyone.

Just because the cruise ship has a "kids club" doesn't mean you have to use it! ;)

[Skyw]

Hi everyone.
I had read this thread today. I saw the title a while ago. Somehow, today I was inspired to read this. It is interesting the different views of the same place. This was my experience 2 years ago when my son was 3.5. I didn't think the place was unsafe. But I wasn't totally sold on the place. My son was used to part time preschool/daycare. He just didn't like the place. He was worried that I wouldn't pick him up. It was a new place and a new experience. In hind site, I just think he was too small to enjoy it. And the other part that I didn't care for was the "fun" slide that was only open during certain hours. My son is active so looking at the slide was torture. He didn't want to watch movies, or do art. He wanted to move his body. Once again, I needed to take him there during certain activities. He only spent a total of 4-5 hours there. I was OK with that. I wanted him with me anyhow.

Since it has been 2 years, I have had time to really think about it. And honestly, I have made the decision to take him on a cruise when he is older. And not count of the kids clubs (of any cruise line) to entertain him. If I want that, they he can stay at grandmas.

Just my 2 cents.:)

[laurio]

We just came off of the Wonder (Oct 1) and I must say that I'm sorry the OP had such a bad experience.
Our 3 1/2 yr old dd and 2 yr old grandson *loved* both OC and Flounders.

My dd is very outgoing and personable, however when presented with a new situation or group of people she tends to be very shy and reserved.

The grandson *hates* going to daycare, and we assumed he'd be problematic at Flounders, and thought we'd at least get a partial Palo experience. Surprisingly, he wanted to go back every day!!!!

DD liked the club so much that she didn't want to go to pre-school today because her club was sooooooooo much better.

Almost all of the castmembers we spoke with had a Master's degree or better, so I would think that it may be more a staffing issue rather than a knowlege based one. Plus as parents we have to understand the limitations of our children. My two grown kids never went to preschool, and both were painfully shy unless they *really* knew the people they were with, so I rarely had non-family babysitters and would never have even tried to bring them to something so big as a club...it would have been way too much for them to handle.

Hopefully Disney will do something to help resolve the issue for you and your family.

[2bundles]

Our kids absolutely LOVED Oceaneers Club. They were 3yr girl and 5yr Boy. They wanted to spend the entire cruise there and would object when we went to collect them!
The counsellors were fantastic and would greet them by name every time including when they were just freely wandering around the ship.

We had no complaints. Does your child usually enjoy Kids Club settings? They are not for everyone.

[RylanzDad]

Our kids absolutely LOVED Oceaneers Club. They were 3yr girl and 5yr Boy. They wanted to spend the entire cruise there and would object when we went to collect them!
The counsellors were fantastic and would greet them by name every time including when they were just freely wandering around the ship.

We had no complaints. Does your child usually enjoy Kids Club settings? They are not for everyone.

Can someone asnwer this question? I m sure its been asked a million times. If you child is 90% potty trained but sometimes needs help, but we were only planning on leaving them in the club for like 3-4 hours max. Will they allow them to do it or at least try? He just turned 3, 2 weeks ago and loves kids of all ages, not shy at all, tries to talk to every kid he sees. We sail on Nov 1st. and I know he would have a blast in the club.

[lbgraves]

Can someone asnwer this question? I m sure its been asked a million times. If you child is 90% potty trained but sometimes needs help, but we were only planning on leaving them in the club for like 3-4 hours max. Will they allow them to do it or at least try? He just turned 3, 2 weeks ago and loves kids of all ages, not shy at all, tries to talk to every kid he sees. We sail on Nov 1st. and I know he would have a blast in the club.

The CMs cannot help the kids in the bathroom at all in the O Club. The kids have to be completely PTd and able deal with the bathroom completely on their own. You could make sure that he goes when you drop him off and then check on him to have him try again every hour or so. Pullups are not allowed during the day either.

[vacationsitis]

Sorry to hear about children not having a good experience. We have been on four different Disney Cruises over the past several years. My kids have always loved the club & their counselors.

[Melcatfish]

Like I stated above, this is not a problem of DCL being unaware of one or two problematic counselors or a particular incident that happened. The problem lies in DCL's employment practices, the way they have chosen to structure the kids club, and the amount of resources (or lack thereof) they have chosen to dedicate to quality childcare.

DCL has made a conscious decision to make things the way they are and they are well aware of the consequences of these decisions. And to be honest, based on some of the responses to this thread and what we observed from many of the parents on our cruise, most people don't really care about these shortcomings, so DCL has no motivation to improve.

When I filled out the comment card at the end of the cruise, I made it obvious that everything other than the childcare was great and that the childcare soured our overall experience and we are very unlikely to book DCL in the future as a result. Obviously this was enough to trigger a mandatory follow up phone call, but I wouldn't expect any meaningful changes from DCL until massive numbers of parents lodge similar complaints. In the end, DCL only cares how people vote with their wallets.


Ouch - not sure I like the implication that those of us whose children didn't have a problem in the clubs "don't care about the shortcomings"

I am sorry that you had a bad experience and my initial post on this thread suggested that you express your concerns to DCL but considering you don't personally know me or I assume the other people on this thread I thoroughly resent your comment that we just don't care or are somehow less qualified than you to understand what constitutes a suitable childcare environment for children on a cruise.

I spent time with my daughter in the club and also observed the club in action varying times when waiting to collect or drop off. Of course any environment where you put a large number of children who are not used to each other will encounter problems, my experience was that these were dealt with well however that was a different ship and a different cruise.

Anyway, to reiterate I am truly sorry that you feel your cruise was soured by the childcare provision however I could not read your comment and not respond.

Mel

[lance435]

Ouch - not sure I like the implication that those of us whose children didn't have a problem in the clubs "don't care about the shortcomings"

Huh? I was stating observations, not making personal attacks.

It seems many people are having trouble distinguishing between "my children enjoyed the kid's club" and "the kid's club provides quality childcare". They are two nearly orthogonal concepts.

The intent of my original post was to point out (for those who understand the difference and are looking for more than superficial reviews) that I observed some very concerning shortcomings in the structure of the Oceaneer's club. Unfortunately, many of the replies to my post were "sorry to hear that, but our kids enjoyed the club!" ... which is completely missing the point.

Another thing to realize is that one or two experienced CMs that take their jobs seriously can make all the difference. If you happen to drop in while a quality CM is on duty, you likely won't see a lot of the issues I described. For example, on the first day of our cruise, the club seemed well managed and most CMs were attentive as parents were registering their kids and asking questions about the club. After that initial period, there was a significant drop-off most times we stopped in. For me, the quality of a childcare center is measured by how they handle the worst case, not the best case scenario when they're putting on a show for all the new cruisers.

Unfortunately, nothing in the structure of the club guarantees that a quality CM or someone in a accountable/manager-type role will be on duty at all times, so it's a crap shoot when you drop your child off.

After our experience on the Wonder, we would not feel comfortable booking a shore excursion that would require leaving our child in the kid's club. Sure, maybe that day we get a good CM and our child has a great time, but what if we go to drop off and the kid's club is full of disinterested college-aged guys who looked bored to death (which was often case when we visited)? I don't want to be in a position where I have to choose between my child's welfare and losing out on several hundred bucks for a last minute cancellation.

It's obvious from some replies that several parents who got unlucky or took as close of a look as I did at the club agree with my observations. And I think most parents who take a real honest look (over several days and drop offs) at the club would tend to agree with many of my points as well. The only real contradictory points that were made on this thread all came from Magic cruisers, so perhaps there is actually a significant difference in club structure between the two.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that you child will not have fun or cannot get quality care at the kid's club. In fact, I'm sure 90%+ of kids have a great time and encounter no issues. But I could also say that if you let your kid run around Deck 9 on his own or left him alone on your veranda, 90% of the time nothing bad would happen. Is that good enough for you to feel comfortable with it?

[doberlady]

We were on the Magic last week. My shy 4 1/2 year old would not stay in the club. It was obvious I was having problems trying to engage her enough to stay and none of the CM's who were standing around watching us came over to try and connect with my child so that maybe she would want to try and stay. We never went back.

Not to say it's their problem if my shy child is having a hard time but since they are the childcare workers it would have been nice for someone to try and help us.

[TraciM]

Maybe a lot has to do with the age and disposition of the child.:confused3 Both of mine were in the Lab on the Wonder and loved it. In addition, I did feel that the CM’s were completely qualified but my kids are very outgoing in that type of atmosphere so maybe that makes a difference. Personally, activities like the Lab are what sold us on DCl but I do understand that everyone’s experience is different. I do not mind paying the higher prices since I do feel I am getting what I pay for. If my kids were unhappy with their experience I am sure I would feel differently and proceed to find something that worked better.

[KSandbergFL]

Yesterday in the mail, we received a letter from DCL regarding changes to the kid's club format on the Wonder. The letter doesn't mention the Magic, so for now I'll assume this just applies to the 3-nt/4-nt cruises on the Wonder.

The letter says this (paraphrased):
Beginning in mid-December aboard the Wonder, children in the kid's clubs will be able to select only the events and activities they would like to participate in, without being restricted by age group.... Kids are free to select activities based on their interests, regardless of age. Also, if you have multiple children and they want to participate in the same activity together -- that's possible too!....

...Kids will be able to select their own adventures, from the daily Personal Navigator, just like adults.

This sounds like great news to us -- we only used the kids club once (in 4 cruises), because we didn't like the "one size fits all" structure. This might tempt us to use the kids clubs again on our next cruise (Jan 2010 - 63 days, yay!). We'll see how it works out.

There is a discussion thread here:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2334294

[Dreamer04]

I so rarely post these days, but when I read this thread-I HAd to chime in.

On our very first Wonder cruise, my then 5 year old Dd, was very shy. We tried the Oceaneer's club, but I think she caught my vibe. I didn't like it.

The problem wasn't the number of counselors, it was the quality. One or two who were engaging the children, others standing around chatting. Worse, there was one counselor whom I thought was outright mean to a child.

It was only a 4 day cruise, so I didn't sweat it. I didn't complain, either.

The following year, same problems, longer cruise.

It wasn't until my daughter was in the Lab that she wanted back in the enviorment.

There were individual activites that she enjoyed-like making Flubber, and coloring pillowcases. But, on the whole, the Club was too crowded and not montiored correctly. I wish I had complained as eloquently as you did.

[Elisa and Harris]

Just came back from cruise: 11/29-12/3. Was very apprehensive about putting (almost) 3 yo into Oceaneers Club after reading these reports. Did put her in about an hour in the evening; I did stay for a bit myself. The place was, at times, a zoo with chaos and kids everywhere. Then I did stay. But I found the counselors to be attentive to the kids in the smaller groups; the ones that weren't running around like a crazy person. My daughter fits in both the crazy and quiet group; depending on her mood. I stayed with her when she was crazy because then I was afraid she would get hurt and wouldn't be found until it was too late. But all was well. She got to dance with Cinderella and Snow White and was thrilled with that. Like I said, I didn't keep her in there more than an hour; mostly because I did want to spend time with her.

[tmbacon]

This is such an interesting post. We have two boys, age 4 and 6, and I have been so curious to see what the child care is like on DCL. I'm glad that I read this post ahead of time, b/c I think it will help me manage expectations once we're on board. I guess this is the main reason I lurk on these boards, so I can plan ahead and be prepared!

I really appreciate everyone's input and opinion on this board, both the "good" and the "not-so-good". ;)

[Elisa and Harris]

Here's an example: there are princess clothes to dress up in. My daughter had on snow white and it was too big for her. She kept tripping over the bottom. She would run around and hold it up in her hands but would still trip, get up and keep going. There is a cargo net ladder that leads to the slide. She would trip while on the net and the other kids would just run over her! There was no one watching to help her. On the other hand, I had noted to one of the counselors that the dress was too big for her so I pinned it up but it was still too big. My daughter loved the dress and did not want to take it off. I left her there for story time (she's 3) figuring she won't be running too much, and returned about 45 minutes later to find that they had switched the dress for a better fitting tinkerbell one instead. That made me feel a little better but I still didn't leave her alone too much. I geuss it all depends on who is there. If she was older, I would have felt better about leaving her there more.

[Desi]

We were on the Magic 11/14-21.
Our almost 4 yr old son, did not care for the club.
*I noticed everything that's already been mentioned.*
My son is shy. Does not care for strangers. But will go to a pretty girl
caretaker who shows him attention in a second.
He only stayed when when we went to Palo's for dinner and when we went ashore in Cozamel. He was in there a total of 4 times, If not for Palo ressies, I wouldn't have put him in at all. Everytime we came back to get him he was either watching cartoons unsupervised or if something was going on, on the little stage he was sitting with a councelor. He did not beg to stay or show any interest in staying past the time when we came to pick him up. I noticed when crafts were done, he never had one. It was because if they don't do it on their own, noone helps them. Did not see any councelor who went out of their way to help the shy or scared child. Alot of crowd control. Maybe when we go back on the Wonder in 2 yrs he'll be better, plus he'll have our grandson who's the same age to keep him company. We'll see.

[KSandbergFL]

Yesterday in the mail, we received a letter from DCL regarding changes to the kid's club format on the Wonder. The letter doesn't mention the Magic, so for now I'll assume this just applies to the 3-nt/4-nt cruises on the Wonder.

The letter says this (paraphrased):
Beginning in mid-December aboard the Wonder, children in the kid's clubs will be able to select only the events and activities they would like to participate in, without being restricted by age group.... Kids are free to select activities based on their interests, regardless of age. Also, if you have multiple children and they want to participate in the same activity together -- that's possible too!....

...Kids will be able to select their own adventures, from the daily Personal Navigator, just like adults.

This sounds like great news to us -- we only used the kids club once (in 4 cruises), because we didn't like the "one size fits all" structure. This might tempt us to use the kids clubs again on our next cruise (Jan 2010 - 63 days, yay!). We'll see how it works out.

There is a discussion thread here:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2334294


For those who might still be following this thread, another DIS'er found this recent review of the new kids club format on the Wonder. The reviewer has an 8yr old and a 3yr old, and reports a very positive experience.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1064

[beccawes7471]

We noticed the same things as most on this post on our 3 day wonder 4 years ago. Our ds was almost 6 at the time. He enjoyed himself and still remembers it as fun but what we noticed evertime we would pick him up or drop him off was pretty much chaos. It seemed to us way too many children for the number of counselers. Once when we went to pick him up they couldn't find him and tried telling us several times that "maybe you picked him up already" dh and i really started to panic while we all started looking for him. Turns out he was playing on the rope climbing thing by the slide. He wasn't hinding or anything. After that my husband and I were very uncomfortable with letting him go back and we really didn't need for him to go anyway, so we had our own fun as a family. It was so loud in there that I could def see it as overwhelming to a child, esp if they were not in school or daycare. We didn't complain, figured we were being overly concerned, glad you did and maybe they will make some changes. I really think Disney does such an amazing job with so much other stuff that the kids clubs would be top notch, more like Club Med is was I'm hoping they'll get to someday. Of course by then my little ones prob won't be so little anymore:)

[PizzieDuster]

I'm wondering if the CM's are better on one ship than the other?
It seems like there are more complaints about the Wonder than the Magic. Perhaps that is because on the Wonder children are there for less days and therefore some of the CM's have more of an "I don't care" attitude as they know they be able to connect with the children. !

I am curious about this too. Wonder v. Magic

[2littlestitches]

Let me preface this by saying, I'm a HUGE lover of all things Disney.....member of D23, annual passholder at WDW, frequent cruiser, been to Disneyland in CA as well as Paris.......but I'm not in love with the clubs on the ships.

I don't know....I just don't get that warm, fuzzy, feeling I was expecting from Disney in the clubs. My kids have been in both clubs, mainly because we wanted to go to Palo. The Oceaneers Club was SO chaotic when my kids were there......kids pushing, shoving, bullying on the slide. The castmembers not doing much about it. I didn't like it.

We also had an incident one time where they didn't find our son right away when we came to pick him up. It was scary. He was in the bathroom crying for seemingly a LONG time. Nobody noticed, apparently. Wow, we didn't like that one at all!

Last week, we sailed on the Wonder and my kids went to the Oceaneers Lab for about an hour and a half while we dined at Palo. There were no problems per se, but my kids both had NO interest in going back. They are 7 and 9 now, so old enough to voice their opinions and tell me what's going on. I actually hated leaving them there.....and almost didn't want to go to Palo because of it. But they were having a Wii tournament, and my kids like Wii. They agreed to go for just a little while so we could go to dinner. My oldest son said he really didn't want to go back there anymore. He just wasn't impressed. And we cancelled another reservation we had for Palo brunch, simply because we didn't want to send them there.

One other thing I noticed on just about all the Disney cruises I've been on is a LOT of parents wanting to just ditch their kids in the club. And for long periods of time. I find this sad. It seems there is a mentality that "this is my vacation too" or maybe parents just are sick of being with their kids all day, I don't know. But this definitely happens a lot. I've seen it OVER AND OVER AGAIN! And I think this might be part of the problem with the clubs. Maybe the kids who are being put in there all day have other family issues, or parents ditching them. So they might not be the nicest, most balanced kids in the world, KWIM? I hate to say this.....I SO love Disney, but it is sadly true.

Now having said all that, would I use the clubs on my next Disney cruise?? Maybe, but just so I could dine at the fabulous Palo. And maybe, because my kids are getting older and I'm not as worried about them as I was when they were 3 and 5. They can probably entertain themselves with the video games for an hour or so, and then I could come right back to get them. And they will probably be fine. But would they want to go back??? Probably not.

Having sailed several times, my advice to cautious parents like myself is that the castmembers are nice, but mostly your kid is going to have to fend for himself. My son went one time for a Flubber making session.....I came back only to find out he didn't get a turn in making the Flubber at all. Why??? Because he's not very outspoken and didn't complain loudly that they skipped his turn. Maybe it was sort of his fault, maybe it was the fault of the kids who took his turn, or maybe it was the castmembers who weren't paying enough attention to notice that he didn't get a turn at all! It was disappointing. So make sure your kid can speak up. Or make sure he or she is old enough (i.e. experience in school) to deal with such situations. I think the castmembers have good intentions, but things don't run as smoothly as you would think. The clubs, for us, are a place to take the kids, not some magical fairy-tale type of place. Do I think they are unsafe? Not really. Does our family love the clubs. No!

[TROSELL14843]

Pur kids just loved it, the people, the kids and we knew them by names in the end and tried to make an overseas friend well beyond our economic statuts, but hey we tried. they really did look forward to going there it wasnt a "dump" for us.

wow cant believe it was viewed as that for soem of you

[Ted C]

Yep, we've done five cruises on the Wonder and the clubs counselor's have been very hit or miss. In fact on one cruise I really got into it with one of the counselors which resulted in serious disciplinary actions from her manager. I won't go into detail but I can say a lot of them need to go back home and stay there. Interestingly, on that cruise the contracts were up for a lot of the counselors and they were heading back home to Australia. Many were not planning on coming back from what I was told. The prevailing attitude was those leaving really didn't care what happened to them. Their behavior really reminded me of high school in the way they socialized. They have a very serious responsibility. There's no room for not paying attention every moment.

Now I've had some outstanding experiences too especially in the nursery. In fact going on our second cruise was based on the treatment we received there. There were a few in the clubs that were good too but they got over shadowed by the bad seeds around them. It's a hard job but that's no excuse. It takes a special kind of person to work this job. It's not for everybody. Disney should pay close attention when policing this area to make sure the highest standards are being upheld.

Disney charges too much not to be top rate in every aspect ESPECIALLY when they're taking care of your children. My experience with the Liberty's child care recently topped Disney. The attitude and attention to detail was just much better.

YMMV

[Woody's Mommy]

OP, I have not been on the DIS board in quite some time, but I posted a thread about this problem last year when we went on our Disney Cruise. My son was 3 years old at the time and I was floored by the fact that so many people left their small children with complete strangers on a cruise ship. We attended the activities with him. I really thought my mind would be put at ease when I saw how the CMs interacted with the kids but it was the total opposite. My husband and I couldn't believe the kids to CM ratio. Preschools would be shut down for having that many kids and not enough adults. You are dead on when you talked about the bullying and the other parents. It was also troublesome to see how different the CMs would act when they thought we weren't looking. We saw several of them sitting around on the tables not paying any attention to what the kids where doing. My son had fun but I wouldn't dare leave him in there to fend for himself at such a young age. I also made a very long comment on the card at the end of the cruise but I would be surprised if it did any good.

This being said, I would not let it keep me from booking another Disney Cruise. The overall experience was great and we (as a family) loved the Oceaneers Club. Would I recommend dropping your kids off there and going to Palo or to the Spa? No way!

[loveysbydesign]

Yikes....I can only hope that the kids clubs on the Dream will be better!

[BeautyFan]

I am sorry to hear of your bad experience and want to thank you for posting. Up til now I've only heard terrific reviews of the clubs and nursery. I am leaving for my first cruise next month, still plan on trying out the nursery for my 3-yr old to see if it's a good fit. I now realize that the club might not be right for her just yet. We may try to take her to the club while we are in attendance if we want to just check it out.

[Ted C]

Go and have fun, just pay attention. Here's the deal, it's not like anything "awful" happened. It 's just the feeling given the wrong circumstances something "could" happen and they wouldn't be prepared for it because they were in "high school" mode. I really feel it's a mistake to let the CM's get so "buddy- buddy" when they have such a huge responsibility. Part of the problem, as with all cruise ship employees, is they work them to death. If they're not counselors today, they're cleaning up Castaway Cay, etc... They get tired. Unlike truckers, pilots, and air traffic controllers who are forced to take breaks these people are not really regulated. We all know how hard it is to take care of kids, especially you Mothers. Without some kind of break it's easy to loose your focus even with your own kids. Throw in the fact these aren't their kids, and the fact they get little sleep due to to their schedule, partying, and other ship duties, and you have the inattention possibilities we're speaking of which also sometimes manifest into the I don't give a _____ attitude mentioned in various posts. They're also part time employees in a lot of cases which fuels the fire especially near the end of their contracts.

Moral of the story? We all love Disney but completely trusting everything Disney does, especially when it comes to our children, is probably not a good idea. Heck I don't even do that with our own personal babysitters. Just evaluate the situation daily, check in on them, and report anything you see amiss and all should be fine, just like you'd do at home.

[Raven9 Studios]

After reading some of the replies to my original post, I think I should clarify a few things ...

Let's be honest ... it doesn't take much effort or skill to entertain younger kids when you have a cool playground, Disney movies playing non-stop on the TV, character appearances, and scripted activities throughout the day. In fact, most kids would probably have a blast hanging out in the club even if all of the counselors were totally incompetent or not even present.

But how many of you parents out there would feel comfortable dropping off your child at the club if it was just a play area with no adult supervision? Most kids would still have a good time, sure, but it would hard to have a good time as a parent knowing a problem might come up and no counselor would be there to handle it.
I really have no motivation to follow up with DCL about my experience as many have suggested (although DCL did recently call to follow up, somewhat rudely, with the poor rating we gave on the comment card). If there had been only one or two problematic counselors or one specific incident, I might consider, but the problems I described are systematic and cannot be fixed by a DCL apology or superficial change to their policies so I really don't see the point.

THANK GOD I wasn't the only one who felt this way. This thread took forever to find. I wrote on my comment card this was the only negative and very disappointing part of my trip. I actually ended up staying with my son who is 3 in the kids club all 7 days when he got bored with the movies and pool areas. I have to say there is a limited few who were EXCELLENT with children and disney should have hired more like them not just any 18 yr old who thinks its cool to be working for disney.

I witness my son being GRABBED in the arm roughly and yelled at "WE SLIDE ON OUR BOTTOMS here not forward" Mind you he is 3, just turned 3 a simple hey we have to go down the slide on our bottoms would have been better then screaming at him. When he saw me he tried to wiggle from her and she said I AM TALKING TO YOU and wouldn't let go of his arm. So he took his free hand and swatted at her arm. She then screamed HE HIT ME we need to call his parents. I looked over where she could see me and said I am here and saw that whole thing. I suggested if she'd let go of his arm he would listen to her. She let go and then immediately changed her tone with him and asked him what was on his shirt. He quickly responded to her new tone and told her a lion.

My point is that was just one instance and one of many that I watched as a parent in the background. I saw other counselors grabbing children mostly 5 and under in inappropriate holds and grabbing them, talking down to them or loudly expressing that child's bad behavior. I def let the counselors know I was there even tho it wasn't my child involved.

I was shocked. I thought this was disney and that the staff would be incredible. My son cut his finger in the elevator and a night time groundskeeper came over and quickly startedjoking with jacob. He put a bandaid on him and got him smiling again. Another worker came over to see if he was ok. I looked at the men and told him they should be working in the club not swabbing the decks. They obvioiusly had kids and loved them.

I spent and knew I couldn't trust the staff in the club at that point in the 2 days I was just watching. I did see alot of parents pick up and go and drop kids off so they could go out. I know alot of the kids were upset wanting to spend time with their parents afterall it is vacation and that explained 90% of the actions for the kids 5 and under. It was WAY OVERCROWDED and maybe 4 adults to all those kids. I didn't like the fact they shut down the slides while wendy time was going on not all kids want to listen to a story at 9am in the morning.

Now my daughter who was 9 opposite. she went to the cooking school and loved the computers but she is an easy kid and low maintence. The older kids knew they could play video games or experiment or see goofy or whatever but way easier for some 18 yr old to manage when all they have to do is watch instead of interact.

There was 2 people who stood out for me in the club. I wish I could remember her name but she was on there level and enjoyed what she did. She was also a life guard in the pool area during the day and a young man named scott I think? He was like oh your kid remind me of myself when I was younger he's a great kid.

Those 2 people were the only saving grace to the kid clubs. The dining staff and other staff I met seemed to understand kids sooo much more then those chose to be working in the clubs. I hope this changes soon or I wont take my kids on a disney cruise again till they are both older.. which is sad.

[Ted C]

Let me put it in perspective, how many of the counselors have kids? Pretty much sums it up...

I'm sorry you had a similar experience. If she'd have grabbed my kids arm, poop would have hit the fan.

These are just a bunch of Australian kids, for the most part, on a college program with very basic training and no REAL experience having or dealing with children. There were a few excellent ones too, but not enough to offset or overcome the bad ones. Sad thing is you could tell the good ones new this too...

Disney, listen up.

[Raven9 Studios]

Let me put it in perspective, how many of the counselors have kids? Pretty much sums it up...

I'm sorry you had a similar experience. If she'd have grabbed my kids arm, poop would have hit the fan.

These are just a bunch of Australian kids, for the most part, on a college program with very basic training and no REAL experience having or dealing with children. There were a few excellent ones too, but not enough to offset or overcome the bad ones. Sad thing is you could tell the good ones new this too...

Disney, listen up.

Disney listen up is right but who do we contact? I would love to send this link to someone who WOULD do something about it. I thought as a travel agent and knowing the 23rd was the only cruise they offer for us to book using our rate that everything would be top notch especially the clubs considering our impact on outside clients etc. I also thought the comment card would mean something which is why I took the time to express my gratitude to our wait staff and to fergy our room mgr.

I have NOT received any kind of contact in regards to my comment nor have I been able to find a link to anywhere that it would matter to write too.

[loveysbydesign]

It's a shame that Disney doesn't realize that cm's who deal with children non-stop need a break. I have been teaching/caring for children for over 15 years and as much as I LOVE children I still need a break now and then. We were booked on the Wonder for this Nov. and bumped it to the Dream in May 2011. I can only hope that the cm's on the Dream aren't as worn, tired and irritated by children as the ones many of you have encountered. Disney needs to get with the program!
Also wanted to add that I think this thread should be cross-posted in the regular Disney cruise forum for other dis'ers to read!

[Raven9 Studios]

Just started a new thread on the boards linking this since this thread took forever to find and as a parent I wish I had read prior to booking. Thank you to who started this

[poohbear luvs grumpy]

My family was on the wonder in May 2008. Over all the club experience was great. We only used the clubs for specific activities that the kids wanted to do. The only situation we had was with our five year old. We dropped her off and my husband asked what time the activity would be over we were told in 45 minutes so we left and my husband had planned on going back to get her in 40 minutes (he hates to be late for anything). Five minutes before he planned to leave my sister came knocking on the door and told us that they were taking her to dinner we never expected anyone else to pick her up so we didn't put my sister on to check her out. My sister told them that my daughter was supposed to eat with the family but they said they only contact the parent when the child requests it. My husband ran to find her but when he asked where she had been taken he received incorrect information. He finally found the group she was in and was able to get her so she could eat with the family. So even using the clubs for short activities can still cause some problems and if you are traveling with a group put every responsible adults name on the list to check out your child.

[kobesam]

I totally agree 100%. My DD was 4 on our cruise and I thought the kids club was just a glorified daycare and experienced the same as was previously posted. This was my 5th cruise (1st with Disney) and I was extremly disapointed. But beware of the Disney cruise lovers I had posted something negative before regarded the kids club and was completly slammed by Disney lovers.

[LMCmom25kids]

OMG.... I just read every single post on this thread and I had an idea.... Just wondering if anyone out there thinks this would accomplish anything positive? Hopefully it wouldn't back fire on us. I thought perhaps I could speak with someone....(not sure whom as this will be our 1st Disney cruise. It would def have to be someone in charge of the counselors) BEFORE we take our children 6,10,11 to any of the clubs, labs etc... Let them know about some of the postings here on this thread.... maybe even go as far as to have a few printed off. (not just the negative ones, but the positive ones too.) Tell them that we are VERY concerned about the CM to child ratio in the younger groups. Our daughter will have just turned 6 one month before our cruise. She's pretty shy... not sure she would speak up if her turn to make flubber (or anything else) got over looked or taken by an overly aggressive child. I can not stand to see this! From my experience, it tends to happen due to the parents of this kind of child also being overly aggressive. (Can anyone say: Attention Hogs?) LOL. Trying to lighten the mood here. I have no problem letting them know that I as well as others in our family... will be stopping by from tiime to time to "observe." I would be very nice about it of course. I would never talk down to them as I know that will get us no where. They could also possibly have an attitude and could( in a worse case scenerio) take it out on our child. (Yes, I have thought of this.) Anyway.... my point here... just to re-cap is to KINDLY and ever so delicately, let them know I'm just a concerned parent just like all the rest.... and that I'm not really thrilled with the postings that I have seen here on the boards. I have read the same thing over and over again.... child to adult ratio is not making any of us parents "Disney Happy." We are not the kind of parents that would dump our kids off just to get rid of them.... After all, it's a FAMILY VACATION! I WANT to spend time with my kids.... and I'm a stay at home mother. Sure there are times that I need a break cuz my kids got on my nerves.... but myself and my husband want FAMILY memories of our Disney Cruise.... not just memories of he and I getting drunk at the bar and having a so called blast! We are not big drinkers, but we will no doubt have a Bahama Mama or two. Can't wait for our cruise. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as well as praying for great weather and cast members! Opinions please... :hippie:

[Raven9 Studios]

OMG.... Anyway.... my point here... just to re-cap is to KINDLY and ever so delicately, let them know I'm just a concerned parent just like all the rest.... and that I'm not really thrilled with the postings that I have seen here on the boards. I have read the same thing over and over again.... child to adult ratio is not making any of us parents "Disney Happy." We are not the kind of parents that would dump our kids off just to get rid of them.... After all, it's a FAMILY VACATION! I WANT to spend time with my kids.... and I'm a stay at home mother. Sure there are times that I need a break cuz my kids got on my nerves.... but myself and my husband want FAMILY memories of our Disney Cruise.... not just memories of he and I getting drunk at the bar and having a so called blast! We are not big drinkers, but we will no doubt have a Bahama Mama or two. Can't wait for our cruise. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as well as praying for great weather and cast members! Opinions please... :hippie:

That was my whole point in bringing attention to this. I was hoping to get feedback that MAYBE just MAYBE this was just isolated instances. My concern was def the ratios. There was always more counselors in the lab and the vibe in there was much less chaotic but alot of that has to do with the way it is set up. You have areas for video/lab/crafts/computers and a play area in the middle for story. Its set up very well. I witnessed counselors playing video games with the kids and talking to them. I was told as anyone is that they are welcome to come and play and observe at anytime and they welcome it.

Club has too many little ones at one time and by shutting down areas forcing all to do one activity is bound to have reactions. Kids feeling dropped off or left behind also adds to that. The main lady in the club was AWESOME she is which one who said to me it is really crazy right now in here lots of kids but later this evening or first thing in the morning there isn't as many kids many 10 or so. At that point there was well over 45 kids in there and only 4 or 5 counselors which one is on the computers checking in and one is stationed at the top of the slide. one by the bathrom so that leaves 2 which were in the computer area one playing video games and the other starting up bingo.

So think about the fact that 5 kids were playing bingo and maybe 4 playing the video that left over 30 kids running around with adults in sight but not interacting. I am just suggesting bring a few more in the room especially with the little ones which is why there are state guidelines in place.
Grabbing a child and jerking them to attention is UNCALLED for. Some of the other instances also make me worry alittle. I love the parents on here who talked to the counselors or advise of special situations. I am a disney fan LOVE disney and believe in his dream. I had a great time and the staff was excellent especially the servers. This is not a bashing to disney so please quit taking it as that. Trying to improve an area involving your kids is a GREAT thing. Imagine you come back from palo and you look over and someone has grabbed your child's arm and talking to them. Your child looks scared. Is it really worth the blindness because it has a disney name? No. I think the clubs are a ton of fun but need more employees in there so maybe the few that are in there don't feel so overwhelmed. Maybe they welcome parents in there so maybe it will help get some adults in there since not every daycare/babysitting situation is perfect. And no the employees do NOT all have education degrees its a job/intern. I did go by the nursery and wish I could have put him in there. They had pluto in there and 3 employees when there was only 2-3 kids in there. It was quiet and everyone was laughing. I think the nursery deserves an award.

[mb1976]

I posted this in another thread but, here is an article about how Disney is changing the kids programs.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1064

[lakerz5]

We've had very good experiences in the kids areas, BUT our youngest was 7 on our first cruise. I would be checking on a 3 or 4 year old often if I was dropping a little one off that age. At 3 and 4, they are just "little people" that can't say or do much against an older child trying to be rough with them. I don't know if I like that age being together with up to 7 year olds...too many opportunities to be mean to or impatient with the little ones......:)

[Dicecatt]

It saddens me greatly to read some of these stories.

My children loved the club and the lab, all three of our Disney Wonder cruises. A couple of counselers even remembered them from previous cruises, and they were truly delightful.

Yes, at times the room was chaotic, but so is my own house, and I only have four kids compared to the many in the club during slide time ;).

My daughter was 3 and newly fully potty trained our first cruise...she loved every second of it, and would tell me to leave. At first I felt guilty, but she clearly wanted to be there, so at times I would stay with her, or check in often. My twins, first age 9 when first at the lab, made best friends instantly and wanted to live in the lab, we had to drag them out.

On our cruise last July, it was just my littlest with my sister and me...and we had the same experience. The only time she cried was when they practiced for the last day graduation show and she didn't want to participate. I came in as a cast membr was hugging her and showing her some things she could play with instead.

In December, my whole family of 6 went...again, the three younger ones loved the clubs. And when my 4 year old wasn't feeling well, poor baby, they paged us. She was being comforted (away from the other children).

I'm sad for the children that didn't have such wonderful experiences. While my children are all outgoing, secure and adventurous, not all children are, and the cast members should be able to engage all types of children.

I will say, though...just because we choose to utilize what we consider a valuable piece of Disney cruising...the children's clubs...does not mean we want to dump our kids and have our own vacation, nor do I think that the reason you see bully children is because their parents dump them. That may be the case sometimes, but generalizing is never good...we choose to cruise because I believe it is the perfect balance of family and alone time. If I had experienced what some others on here had, I may have felt the same...but speaking for myself, I choose to take advantage of the childcare because my children truly LOVE it, not because I am dumping them, not caring who is watching them.

[abayaflowers]

It saddens me greatly to read some of these stories.

My children loved the club and the lab, all three of our Disney Wonder cruises. A couple of counselers even remembered them from previous cruises, and they were truly delightful.

Yes, at times the room was chaotic, but so is my own house, and I only have four kids compared to the many in the club during slide time ;).

My daughter was 3 and newly fully potty trained our first cruise...she loved every second of it, and would tell me to leave. At first I felt guilty, but she clearly wanted to be there, so at times I would stay with her, or check in often. My twins, first age 9 when first at the lab, made best friends instantly and wanted to live in the lab, we had to drag them out.

On our cruise last July, it was just my littlest with my sister and me...and we had the same experience. The only time she cried was when they practiced for the last day graduation show and she didn't want to participate. I came in as a cast membr was hugging her and showing her some things she could play with instead.

In December, my whole family of 6 went...again, the three younger ones loved the clubs. And when my 4 year old wasn't feeling well, poor baby, they paged us. She was being comforted (away from the other children).

I'm sad for the children that didn't have such wonderful experiences. While my children are all outgoing, secure and adventurous, not all children are, and the cast members should be able to engage all types of children.

I will say, though...just because we choose to utilize what we consider a valuable piece of Disney cruising...the children's clubs...does not mean we want to dump our kids and have our own vacation, nor do I think that the reason you see bully children is because their parents dump them. That may be the case sometimes, but generalizing is never good...we choose to cruise because I believe it is the perfect balance of family and alone time. If I had experienced what some others on here had, I may have felt the same...but speaking for myself, I choose to take advantage of the childcare because my children truly LOVE it, not because I am dumping them, not caring who is watching them.

My children had a great time, too. My DD8, two years ago, woke up everyday and wanted to go to the Oceaneer's everyday. We barely saw her. Our DD4 totally loved it. It was magical for her. It is important to communicate and introduce yourself to all the counselors. Ask many questions even meet the Manager of the all the clubs. That way, they know that you are serious. Stay with your children until you know that they are comfortable. My DD4 has severe food allergies and she had to keep an epi-pen, jr. handy which she knows how to use. That was our only challenge. Everyday, introduce yourself to all the counselors and know them by name. It takes time, but it is important to know all the staff. Also talk with your children and tell them to page you if they are not happy. Hopefully, that DCL will take care of the parent's original issue with the Oceaneer's. I would keep writing letters until you do get an appropriate response. They do listen and they are a big company. Good luck!

[SlimKat]

I totally understand and agree with the original poster regarding the children's program and I haven't even cruised with Disney yet. My concern (and I have had this concern from the day I started researching Disney cruises) is the counselor:child ratio. I think it is insane for Disney to have one counselor for every 15 three to four year olds and one counselor to every 25 five year old and up. That is crazy. Not even the summer camps in my area allow that kind of set up and they have the same group of kids for eight weeks straight for eight hours a day. How can the CMs even begin to know and care for a child and determine their idiosyncracies when the children in their charge changes every 3, 4, or 7 days depending on the length of the cruise? Let's face it some of us can hardly keep a handle on our own kids and we know them for years. How on earth can a stranger handle 15 or 25 kids they know nothing about? And I am certain that many of those CMs are probably childless and/or are practically children themselves (meaning fresh out of high school).

I am also concerned about this new policy of grouping kids by interest regardless of age. There is no way I am going to place my 3 year old in a group to be run over and bullied by older kids. Who is going to be able to fend for him when the counselor has 14 other kids to look after? Chances are the counselor won't even see the offender or the offense.

I just pray that nothing serious ever happens to any of the children in Disney's care. It disturbs me greatly when someone mentions that their child was crying in the bathroom for a seemingly long time. It disturbs me when a child is missing for a short time because a CM let the child out. It disturbs me when a child is left to find his way to the Oceaneer Lab unassisted and their parent is not informed to pick up their child. It disturbs me when a counselor instructs the children in her charge to go on a scavenger hunt around the ship and meet back at a certain time and half of those kids can't even tell time (I witnessed that one myself on a different cruise line). All of these things disturb me alot.

[CyndiandChris]

I, too, am very saddened and surprised to read the negative stories. My DD loved the OC and is looking forward to this year's cruise mainly for that reason. She has already said that she doesn't want to spend any time with us this year (she didn't spend much time with us last year's cruise). While I'm delighted she loves it so much, I did hope that I would spend at least some time with her. Our DS only spent time with us on Castaway Cay last year, but during the time with us, he stayed in the water chatting up a girl he met, so he wasn't really with us, either.

I found the counselors to be fabulous and was very pleased with them!!!

[walloon]

Just had to jump in here with our experiences. First of all I have a DS 7 and DS 10. I am also a teacher, have taught pre-k up to 8th grade.

We took a three day cruise last year, it was our first, my kids loved loved loved the club and the lab. We couldn't get them out.

We are just back from our 2nd cruise, a 7, ooops:) meant 6 day trip on the Magic, with the new format. We told our boys about the change before we left, because this meant they could be together this year. (this could be a good or bad thing depending on the day)
They were very excited about this. Well, it didn't turn out quite as planned. The lab was PACKED, and it was with many many young children. My kids would spend about 45 minutes there tops and then would page us. It wasn't for my 10 year old anymore, he felt very displaced having to hang in the lab with 5 year olds, and he wasn't allowed to go to Ocean Quest, too young.


Also some other things I noticed:
The staff seemed very overwhelmed, not near as friendly and fun with the kids as last years cruise. I think they just didn't know what to do with all the kids of various ages, and it was hard to play games with the older kids etc with the younger ones coming over and interrupting etc.

Also, they were not doing the activities there were on the navigator, some events I could coax my kids into going to such as capture the flag, or mario kart tournament, they would show up and then never do the event. We would pick them up and ask "how did your game go?" and they would say oh we didn't get to play or do it because of xyz. This disappointed both them and me.

So, in short, we weren't really impressed with the kids clubs this trip.

[emma'smom]

That's too bad as we are headed out in April on the Transatlantic and my dd7 (almost 8--in May) was really glad to hear about the changes. This means she won't have to choose between the Lab and the Club. For her, this will be great since she is right on the cusp between the two age ranges. For my dd5 (just turned 5), I was also pleased since she is still in preschool and I suspect she will gravitate toward the activities for 4 year olds since they seem to be more preschool focused (as opposed to the 5-7 year old stuff that was more K/1 focused).

Well...they say the Transatlantic Cruises have a very limited # of kids (like 300 total)....so maybe the CM's won't feel so overwhelmed.



Just had to jump in here with our experiences. First of all I have a DS 7 and DS 10. I am also a teacher, have taught pre-k up to 8th grade.

We took a three day cruise last year, it was our first, my kids loved loved loved the club and the lab. We couldn't get them out.

We are just back from our 2nd cruise, a 7, ooops:) meant 6 day trip on the Magic, with the new format. We told our boys about the change before we left, because this meant they could be together this year. (this could be a good or bad thing depending on the day)
They were very excited about this. Well, it didn't turn out quite as planned. The lab was PACKED, and it was with many many young children. My kids would spend about 45 minutes there tops and then would page us. It wasn't for my 10 year old anymore, he felt very displaced having to hang in the lab with 5 year olds, and he wasn't allowed to go to Ocean Quest, too young.


Also some other things I noticed:
The staff seemed very overwhelmed, not near as friendly and fun with the kids as last years cruise. I think they just didn't know what to do with all the kids of various ages, and it was hard to play games with the older kids etc with the younger ones coming over and interrupting etc.

Also, they were not doing the activities there were on the navigator, some events I could coax my kids into going to such as capture the flag, or mario kart tournament, they would show up and then never do the event. We would pick them up and ask "how did your game go?" and they would say oh we didn't get to play or do it because of xyz. This disappointed both them and me.

So, in short, we were really impressed with the kids clubs this trip.

[jimmyc17]

We are happy about the new rules in one regard. Our 7 year old is only three months away from her eighth birthday and she can now spend time with her 10 year old sister.

[clay's crew]

Just had to jump in here with our experiences. First of all I have a DS 7 and DS 10. I am also a teacher, have taught pre-k up to 8th grade.

We took a three day cruise last year, it was our first, my kids loved loved loved the club and the lab. We couldn't get them out.

We are just back from our 2nd cruise, a 7, ooops:) meant 6 day trip on the Magic, with the new format. We told our boys about the change before we left, because this meant they could be together this year. (this could be a good or bad thing depending on the day)
They were very excited about this. Well, it didn't turn out quite as planned. The lab was PACKED, and it was with many many young children. My kids would spend about 45 minutes there tops and then would page us. It wasn't for my 10 year old anymore, he felt very displaced having to hang in the lab with 5 year olds, and he wasn't allowed to go to Ocean Quest, too young.


Also some other things I noticed:
The staff seemed very overwhelmed, not near as friendly and fun with the kids as last years cruise. I think they just didn't know what to do with all the kids of various ages, and it was hard to play games with the older kids etc with the younger ones coming over and interrupting etc.

Also, they were not doing the activities there were on the navigator, some events I could coax my kids into going to such as capture the flag, or mario kart tournament, they would show up and then never do the event. We would pick them up and ask "how did your game go?" and they would say oh we didn't get to play or do it because of xyz. This disappointed both them and me.

So, in short, we weren't really impressed with the kids clubs this trip.

I agree with Walloon's assessment of the club. It was pretty chaotic most of the time, and the counselors were overwhelmed. I have a three-year old, and we limited his time there because it was such a free-for-all.
One thing I'd suggest for checking out little ones: Write your password down on a piece of paper to show the counselor. You have to virtually shout your word over the noise, which totally defeats the purpose. You might also insist they check KTTW cards before releasing your child. The counselors "knew" us because we stayed with our son in the club a lot of the time, or at least checked on him every half hour or so, but with all the people checking in or out, I can see how a little one could slip through. Shudder...

[tefrench]

I just read parts of this thread and would say that our experience two weeks ago in the lab was a positive one. We allowed our children (DD 8 and DS 10) to self check themselves in and out of the club. The only complaint I had was that the times we stopped to pick the kids up it took too long. There were a lot of kids in the lab so I can understand if a child needed some one on one it would be hard for the staff to meet those needs. If I had a bad experience I would certainly want to inform DCL so they can take corrective action.

[katzs13]

I have a 3 year old and I will feel quilty leaving her. She is outgoing once she gets to know you but, I hope she will have fun on our cruise. The kids programming seems fun, but it is the councelers who will make or break the level of fun the kids will have. On the Disney website it does state that the councelers must have 2 years experience with kids to get hired. That makes me feel better.

[TonyaH]

We were on the Wonder on 3/09 & 8/09 and my DD4, loved it. She wanted to go to the club every day. She even talks about the club to all her friends at pre school. I thought the counselors were great. My DD12 received a t-shirt with Mickey drawn on it and he left her a note saying he missed he at the farewell party. I thought that was a nice touch, and my DD thought it was great!

[Raven9 Studios]

3/2/10

To whom it may concern:

Thank you for your e-mail.

While I appreciate your kind words for the dining staff, I hope you will
accept my heartfelt regret for any disappointment with your cruise
vacation. We truly want all of our guests to have fond memories of
their time spent with us, and I was very sorry to learn of your
observations and disappointment with the youth activities areas. As you
may know, our cruise ships offer the largest area (15,000 square feet)
of children’s space of any ship afloat with the largest number of
children’s counselors of any ship at sea. Our counselor to child ratio
is approximately one counselor for every 15 kids. We recruit
individuals who have experience working with children, and they undergo
further training in the areas of age behavior, discipline, quality
childcare, and service. The performance of our counselors is as vital
to our programming as the activities we offer, and they are always
expected to maintain our company's reputation for providing exemplary
care and service. Please accept my assurance that your concerns have
been taken very seriously, and your remarks will be reviewed by the
appropriate shipboard officers and shoreside management teams.

Again, I truly regret any disappointment and hope these concerns will
not affect your regard for Disney. There is magic in the Disney name,
and we hope to have the chance to sail with you again one day soon.

Sincerely,

Joel Hayes
Executive Guest Correspondent
Disney Cruise Line

[loveysbydesign]

3/2/10

To whom it may concern:

Thank you for your e-mail.

While I appreciate your kind words for the dining staff, I hope you will
accept my heartfelt regret for any disappointment with your cruise
vacation. We truly want all of our guests to have fond memories of
their time spent with us, and I was very sorry to learn of your
observations and disappointment with the youth activities areas. As you
may know, our cruise ships offer the largest area (15,000 square feet)
of children’s space of any ship afloat with the largest number of
children’s counselors of any ship at sea. Our counselor to child ratio
is approximately one counselor for every 15 kids. We recruit
individuals who have experience working with children, and they undergo
further training in the areas of age behavior, discipline, quality
childcare, and service. The performance of our counselors is as vital
to our programming as the activities we offer, and they are always
expected to maintain our company's reputation for providing exemplary
care and service. Please accept my assurance that your concerns have
been taken very seriously, and your remarks will be reviewed by the
appropriate shipboard officers and shoreside management teams.

Again, I truly regret any disappointment and hope these concerns will
not affect your regard for Disney. There is magic in the Disney name,
and we hope to have the chance to sail with you again one day soon.

Sincerely,

Joel Hayes
Executive Guest Correspondent
Disney Cruise Line
WOW...I can not believe that they are proud to say that the staff to child ratio is 1 to 15....that's way too many kids per counselor, especially now that the younger ones can be mixed with the older ones. 1 to 12 would be good or 1 to 10 would be even better. No wonder many of them seem stressed!

[RadioFanatic]

WOW...I can not believe that they are proud to say that the staff to child ratio is 1 to 15....that's way too many kids per counselor, especially now that the younger ones can be mixed with the older ones. 1 to 12 would be good or 1 to 10 would be even better. No wonder many of them seem stressed!

I agree - for three to four year olds for daycare in NY, the requirement is 5 kids to a teacher. My son will be almost three and potty changed, but with that new piece of news, he will only go there with us, never without.

[ptk55369]

I just got back from a 7 day on the Magic and we saw mostly good but certainly some of the chaos. Our two kids 7 and 4 enjoyed themselves and really loved the planned activities. We used them sparingly as we wanted to have our kids with us as much as possible, but they still spent a couple of hours there perhaps 4 or 5 of the 7 days. They even ate there for one dinner and, as we checked in our daughter late, we got to see the setup in Topsider's and I was pleasantly surprised by how efficient and organized it was.

I have a link below that if you scroll to the bottom of the page, that describes a planned activity that I witnessed when I went to pick up my son. I was there for 30 minutes and it was outstanding. It was part of Boys Chill time and I think was designed to keep a large number of kids engaged. They played a game of rolling dodgeball afterward as well.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2414168

However, with any care situation there are going to be times when it is incredibly chaotic and where less than ideal things happen. Overall I was impressed by both the number and quality of the counselors. I didn't see a lot of intra-counselor chatting almost all were focused on the kids. We have one shy and one outgoing child but both were known by name by a number of the counselors. I saw them working with a couple of rowdy kids and they were gentle but firm and reacted exactly as I expected. We enjoyed the multi-cultural access the kids had to counselors from all over the world.

Bottom line is I think there is probably room for improvement in all of these programs and I feel badly for those of you who felt like you don't have confidence in the clubs sympathize with you for what you observed and experienced. I think the situation (a large group of kids who flow through without pattern, notice, consistency, groundrules) is ripe for chaos and I would be surprised to find any cruise kids program provide the kind of flexibility and overall care and engagement without there being hourly "incidents" as described by the original poster.

We had our kids in daycare at home when they were younger and the kind of care received varied dramatically by who was doing the care. Some we loved and some we didn't. What I feel most is missing from the kids club atmosphere is a the feeling that someone is in charge. It would have been useful to have a head care person (in a bright red shirt or something) managing the counselors, answering questions, looking out for the shy unengaged kids and managing the flow. I think that would make a true difference and it would probably give us all someone to approach about the things we see or hear or need to hash throuigh to feel comfortable with the clubs.

My two cents.

Interesting thread. popcorn::

[Barbossa]

We took Disney Cruises in 2007 and 2008 and the counselors at the Club and Lab were incredible. What I'm reading here makes me think that the quantity and quality of the staff have been reduced because of the recession.

[When I Grow Up]

We did Cruise #6 on the Wonder this past Feb 4th. We have taken our Grandson (who is now 9 years old) on all six. From Cruise #1 in Jan of 2008 until Cruise #5 in Sept of 2009 I have to say that the Oceaneer Lab staff and the whole experience was very good although the grandson was bored with the same old programs and preferred to just hang out there and play videogames. The CMs were alway very kind and were very caring. All in all a great experience. Cruise #6 under the "new" system however is a different story. The combining of the age groups turned the Lab into uncontrolled chaos. You can't blame the CMs as they were totally overwhelmed with the kids. The sheer volume (both in noise and quantity) was unbelievable. There is no way that any cruise line could cope with that mess. This is one of those brilliant coprorate ideas that is badly flawed and need to be fixed. Having 12 year olds and 3 year olds swarming around together in overcrowded conditions is not a good idea. The CMs became very stressed and so I can understand some of the comments on the earlier posts.
We did talk with a senior level CM in the Lab and were told that on the Wonder there were some conference room spaces that were being converted to a facility dedicated for use by the "tweens" aged 10 - 12. We were told that the Magic already has this facility. I think she said it was called Ocean Quest but was not sure. That might help a little.
Anyway we are off on Cruise #7 on the Wonder in July so we will see if what we were told is correct. This past cruise our Grandson spent more time in the lab than he had done on previous cruises. He prefers the fact that he does not have to participate in some of the activities if he does not want to and usually hangs out with a couple of new friends.
I still think the Oceaneer lab is great and would say take the time to meet the councellors and understand what the programs and processes are. One can only hope that Disney reverts back to their tried and true approach of grouping the ages. Don't base your decision about DCL just on a one off experience. We just live a 30 minute drive from Port Canaveral so we intend to keep going back and going back until either our money runs out or they throw us off. LOL

[loveysbydesign]

Bumping simply to see how others who've sailed recently have enjoyed or not enjoyed the kids clubs!

[grizbuzz]

We were on the June 24 Baltic cruise and both of my kids loved the kids' clubs. I was very glad that there was an option for kids to select their activities, regardless of Club vs. Lab, as my 7 year old had no interest in the Club anymore and would have been miserable there. However, my 5 year old preferred the Club over the Lab and opted to go there. I thought there were some great counselors, in particular at the Lab.

Interestingly, my nephews who were also on the cruise did not like the Club or Lab as much. One spent as little time as possible in Oceaneers or the Lab and the other really only liked the video games at the Lab. They just weren't that interested in group activites with unfamiliar kids and counselors.

I think individual kids can have different experiences in the clubs based on their personalities and interest in hanging out with a bunch of kids and counselors they don't know.

Overall, still think the Club and Lab are excellent. My kids love them. My 5 year old just about cried when we cut off his wrist band and turned in the pager. I give Disney very high scores for the kid activities.:thumbsup2

[jettybean]

We were also on the June 24th Baltic sailing.
Our DD9 loved the lab. Wanted to stay everynight till closing.
Of course, we didn't let her. We booked to do the Med 5/28/11 on the
Magic. We are hoping to add the Transatlantic 5/14 on so she can have
6 straight days to hang in the lab.

[chernabogfamily]

We were on the June 8 Wonder Cruise.
Both of our kids (DS 10 yr & DD 6yr) participated in the Lab/Club. Our DD LOVED it. Wanted to spend all day every day at the club. She went to the Lab once or twice, but felt the activities were a little more involved and older.
Our DS only liked a couple of the activities, but truly enjoyed the Out & About activities geared for the tweens. He really liked being able to travel around the ship and do different types of things, instead of just staying in the Lab.
He spent far less time in the Kids Club than our daughter, but it was also very nice to get some one-on-one time with him while on vacation (as parents we know these years are fleeting- they grow up so fast).
Everyone will have different experiences with the clubs depending on their children's personalities and the other children.
The worst day we experienced was our Day at Sea. It seemed that everyone wanted to put their child in the kids club on that day, so it was very crowded. Our DD had requested to do a particular activity (face-painting), so that was the only time she was there. When she was done at the activity, she said it was too crowded. There were far more CM's that day, but still a lot more children than normal.
All in all, they do a wonderful job and our children thoroughly enjoyed it. They are already making plans for the next cruise!

[K8T]

We were on the June 7 day Repositioning cruise. Our DD who is 5. very confident and outgoing, went to the Club a number of times. She is used to a Nursery (daycare), environment and has just done her first year at 'big' school.

Whilst she enjoyed it and was happy to go in, I can't really say that we relaxed about leaving her and spent a lot of time checking to see that she was happy/engaged in an activity and not being left on her own.

The reason for my concern was mainly that it all seemed a bit disorganised, maybe we are used to having well structured kids club, with continuous activities on the UK ships, but DCL seemed a bit more of a 'free for all', with children of mixed ages, running everywhere. I have to say, I was concerned for the little ones in that environment. I also saw very young children upset, with no one comforting them. One little girl was crying for her Mummy, which no one had noticed. I took her hand and took her to the desk, the CM made no attempt to 'care' for her, just said 'OK I'll page your Mummy to come get you'. I would have thought they would have interacted a bit and maybe tried to help her settle in or find out the problem.

CM's did seem to be grouped around the desks and unless there was a specific activity going on, then that was where they stayed. Even during the activities, a number of children went off on the slides and climbing frame, which was extremely distracting for those that were sitting and listening to a story or doing something with the rest of the group.

I was also concerned about dd going to the Lab, she was frequently taken there, as part of the group, but was certainly out of her depth with some of the things they did. e.g The 'flubber' making was far too much talking and techincal to hold her interest and the older children messing about unnerved her. There was also an activity with dry ice, which worried her - I happened to be there at the time, sitting at the back and she asked to leave.

One evening we went to pick her up late (the one evening in 7, we were having drinks with friends!) All the girls at 10.30pm were in the Lab, having a 'girls' night. Whilst this was fun for the older ones, I found some of the 'adult' discussions going on about boys, kissing, tatoos etc., wasn't really appropriate for a five year old, but pefectly acceptable for the slightly older girls. Had I known this event was going on (my fault for not checking the itinerary), We wouldn't have stayed so late.

Overall the kids club is useful, if you use it wisely. Older kids will cope well and stick up for themselves I should think, but little ones could be vulnerable and I don't think there is actually much 'care and supervision' to ensure the safety of the smaller children. How can there be with a ration of 15-1? I think a more structured 3 - 6 group would be much safer and reassuring for parents.

We are going again in August for 10 days, DD is looking forward to going to the club, however, we will only leave her when we know a 'supervised' activity/event is taking place and I am going to request this time, that she stays in the Club and isn't taken over to the Lab, unless I know what she is going to.

I have to conclude that we have cruised on a number of ships and the DCL club is probably one of the least organised we have come across - however, we don't cruise for the kids clubs, so it doesn't really impact on us too much. DCL could however do well to listen to the concerns, as it lets down, what is a fantastic holiday with children.

[TNShellBelle]

Some of these stories make me very sad also. I would think that if people shared their stories with DCL that something would change.

The last time we cruised (2009) our dd almost 2 1/2 and our ds was 9 months. We put both of them in Flounder's (it was our 3rd cruise and dd had always loved Flounder's), when we went to pick them up dd was in the club. She was potty trained and they said she was fine there. The next day we let her go to the club and picked her up an hour later. When we walked it the door it was chaotic (we expected this). A counselor was at the bottom of the slide looking up it and yelled, "what do you think you are doing? You know better than that! Get down here NOW!" I then saw my daughters sandal in the counselor's hand and her leg in the counselor's other hand. My dd had climbed up the slide the wrong way. My first thought was that at 2, she didn't know any better as I had never had that problem with her before. Secondly, was anyone watching the kids to make sure they were going down the slide the "right way" to begin with and lastly, did someone really just scream at my baby and grab her by the leg???

While I am okay with the counselor correcting her, I was very upset to hear how she was spoken to and that she was pulled by the leg and drug down the slide. When I questioned the counselor as to what had happened (explaining that that was my baby that she pulled down the slide and yelled to like that), she was speechless.

We did talk to someone who was suppose to over see the clubs. He was very apologetic and said the counselor was new and should have know not to put her hands on a child and speak to her that way. We don't yell at our children and it was hurtful to see a Disney counselor do that. Also expressed my concern about her being too young and them putting her in the club when we took her to Flounder's but he reassured us it was a one time event and he would have his "best" counselors watch her if we would bring her back. We did end up letting her go there a couple of days later because she asked to go (I was not thrilled about it) but they did have one person that pretty much stayed with her.

I did write a letter to DCL and they responded that the issue had been addressed while on the ship. I am hopeful that for our cruise next year that my children (will be almost 5 and 3) will have a fun, safe time in the clubs.

[Desi]

[QUOTE=TNShellBelle;37595284]Some of these stories make me very sad also. I would think that if people shared their stories with DCL that something would change.

Alot of people on here have said they have addressed their issues to DCL & like you they were told it was taken care of. But as we can see "things" continue to happen.
Our next cruise my son will be almost 6 and able to tell me exactly what happens or not happens. I think we'll both be alot happier.
There is that in between age when the kids can't really tell you what happens that I think they have the most issues with.

[GraceLuvsWDW]

These stories have me worried. We are going on a cruise in Dec and my daughter has high functioning Autism. I have talked to her at great length about the Club and she is excited to try it. However, she will probably need a counselor to be beside and help her with the activities. Is this even possible? There's no way she will go to the Club on her own without a counselor guiding her throughout the experience.

Please let me know if anyone thinks this is possible. If not, I will have to rethink the cruise.

Thanks!

[Desi]

I don't think it would be much of an issue. they are known to acommidate alot of things. If I were you, I'd care DCL and ask alot of questions.

[marukochan]

Bump

[Jareds_mommy]

These stories have me worried. We are going on a cruise in Dec and my daughter has high functioning Autism. I have talked to her at great length about the Club and she is excited to try it. However, she will probably need a counselor to be beside and help her with the activities. Is this even possible? There's no way she will go to the Club on her own without a counselor guiding her throughout the experience.

Please let me know if anyone thinks this is possible. If not, I will have to rethink the cruise.

Thanks!

I would call and let them make arrangements as far out as possible, if they need extra staff they can plan for it. I would think if you waited to till on board they would not be able to deal as well or you may have to plan on being in the club with her to help her

[wdwfamilyinIL]

I know that as a parent I am shocked at some of the things that I have read, even more so that its from Disney....whom I think is supposed to be more geared at children. MY 3 boys have asked forever to go on a cruise, and we are booked on the Dream next May, I do have to say that these stories make me really uneasy on whether to let them go to the clubs or not. I know that I will request that they stay together,(12,10,8). My 10 year old gets picked on a lot due to alot of things out of his control, and to think that he wouldn't be "safe" here. I just don't know. I do know one thing, big brother doesn't like it when anyone other than him picks on his younger buddies, so I really really hope that situations get under control and things become less hectic, or I am going to have a ticked off parent coming at me.

[Toocoolmom]

We were on the June 24 Baltic cruise and both of my kids loved the kids' clubs. I was very glad that there was an option for kids to select their activities, regardless of Club vs. Lab, as my 7 year old had no interest in the Club anymore and would have been miserable there. However, my 5 year old preferred the Club over the Lab and opted to go there. I thought there were some great counselors, in particular at the Lab.

Interestingly, my nephews who were also on the cruise did not like the Club or Lab as much. One spent as little time as possible in Oceaneers or the Lab and the other really only liked the video games at the Lab. They just weren't that interested in group activites with unfamiliar kids and counselors.

I think individual kids can have different experiences in the clubs based on their personalities and interest in hanging out with a bunch of kids and counselors they don't know.

Overall, still think the Club and Lab are excellent. My kids love them. My 5 year old just about cried when we cut off his wrist band and turned in the pager. I give Disney very high scores for the kid activities.:thumbsup2

We were also on the Baltic Cruise and while the kids had a great time my DD(10) said the Lab was full of little kids and my DN(8) often went over to the Club because there were too many people in the Lab.

While I understand it is hard for kids to be grouped in one club it is also hard when everyone sees the lab as the place to be. There was just too many young kids in the Lab!!! Even the counselors (which were great) seemed to be overwhelmed sometimes.

On the other hand my other DN(11) loved Ocean Quest and didn't want to leave. My DD wanted to go there.

I personally liked the "old system" where the kids are assigned a club/lab. This gives them something to look forward to when they get older and cruise again.

[Cliffside]

We were also on the Baltic Cruise and while the kids had a great time my DD(10) said the Lab was full of little kids and my DN(8) often went over to the Club because there were too many people in the Lab.

While I understand it is hard for kids to be grouped in one club it is also hard when everyone sees the lab as the place to be. There was just too many young kids in the Lab!!! Even the counselors (which were great) seemed to be overwhelmed sometimes.

On the other hand my other DN(11) loved Ocean Quest and didn't want to leave. My DD wanted to go there.

I personally liked the "old system" where the kids are assigned a club/lab. This gives them something to look forward to when they get older and cruise again.

I agree...I liked the old system also. My DD is an only child and it was great that she was able to hang out with kids her own age.

When did your DD turn 10...Would they let her in Ocean Quest. My DD will be 2 months shy of her 11th b-day and I when I was on the Magic last November they said she could go inot OQ this August....although if it was like it was before I would have much preferred her to be in place that gives out pagers.

[Toocoolmom]

I agree...I liked the old system also. My DD is an only child and it was great that she was able to hang out with kids her own age.

When did your DD turn 10...Would they let her in Ocean Quest. My DD will be 2 months shy of her 11th b-day and I when I was on the Magic last November they said she could go inot OQ this August....although if it was like it was before I would have much preferred her to be in place that gives out pagers.

She just turned 10 and could do some activities in OQ but, we didn't figure that out till later and she didn't feel like she belonged. Wish we would have seen that in the beginning.

I did talk to the OQ crew and they said that if they are not 11 yet it is up to the OQ crew to decide. The may base it on the number in the club.

She turns 11 on our next cruise so she will just start in OQ. I think this will help her out a lot.

We gave both our kids check in/out privileges this time around and it worked out great. We used a dry erase board and post its to have the kids communicate with us. It worked out great and we could always find them.

[penguinmomma]

That is awful :( I am so sorry! We were onboard the Disney Wonder last summer for a 4 day cruise and they treated my son fabulously. He wasn't quite 3 but was potty trained. We'd reserved time for him at the nursery but they said he'd probably have more fun at the Oceaneer's club and they were right- he kept asking to go back.
You should NOT have seen or experienced what you did. I completely agree with everyone who has said complain LOUDLY! Unacceptable!

[pixarmom]

I was researching Disney Dream and saw all the wonderful plans for kids' areas, and then realized it was a "kids club" instead of just a play area for the whole family (like Honey, I Shrunk the Kids playground at DHS.) So I started reading these threads about kids' clubs, and I'm just so surprised to hear all of this.

I'll admit, our three boys (ages pre-school to pre-teen) are not fans of kids' clubs anywhere - they know these clubs have been available to them at WDW, and on vacations to resorts in Florida, Park City, Martha's Vineyard and Mexico. They aren't clingy or scared by any means - they're generally independent. We just like to do things together, and they enjoy sticking with their little brother for little kid stuff at WDW and DL to see his reaction. They occasionally go on a ride at WDW by themselves (mission space, for example) but they've said it's more fun with at least one of us along. The wide variety of activities available to the entire family is one of the main reasons we love WDW and DL so much.

So given all of this, and the fact that we've never been on any cruise before, what do you all think about the idea of stopping by the kids clubs together? Can we go in with our youngest and play with him in the Toy Story room or the Nemo sub? We wouldn't do that in the kids' clubs at Disney resorts, because they exist for the purpose of childcare - is that pretty much the same for the kids' clubs on DCL? I know we won't know the specifics on Dream until January, but what do you all think based on your experiences on existing cruises? Not sure if a cruise is for us, and some of these threads make it look like kids and adults often go their own way, so I'd appreciate any responses.

[Silverfox97]

We were on a 5-night DD cruise on the Wonder Aug 8-13. Our DD is 3 1/2 - doesn't go to daycare, and won't start school until Aug 2011. She's at home with me &/or her Dad everyday. No babysitters (we have no family in state -- they are all in Ohio).

Now, DH & I had been on a cruise before, and knew we wanted to go to Palo again. What do we do? Well, we test her out at the Oceaneer Club. We didn't even check her in/get the bracelet/pager until Day 3.On pirate night, we take her there after dinner to see how she'll do -- get her acclamated. She had seen the kids clubs on the DCL DVD and was thrilled about it - she loves other kids (no siblings, either), at the park, anywhere. So, we decided to go in with her, see how she'll do. We approach the club and we talked to by such a nice counselor, who explained everything. We stuck on "visitor" tags, and walked in. Well, immediately, DD RAN off - not looking back. DH and I couldn't believe it. She went right to the other kids, a little slide - gone. We observe for a little bit, and it was clear, she did not need us! We left her in for "So you want to be a Pirate" with Captain Hook, then "Sliding Fun" on the big slide (~ 2 hrs) and we fully expected to get paged. Nothing. No page. She was behaving, playing, having a great time. We picked her up to go to the Pirate Party, and she didn't want to leave!!

The next day, she's again begging to go to the kids club. Now, we hadn't planned on doing it until Palo, but after we met with the Princesses, we let her go in for "Do-si-do with Snow White," just for 1 hr before lunch. She's greeted with a squirt of soap and sent to wash her hands, and she's off! Again, she's in heaven. Loving it. All freakin' day we hear about her wanting to go to the kids club. She couldn't wait until we went to Palo so that she could go back.

That evening, we took her to eat pizza and watch a movie on Deck 9 until ~5:45pm, where we sent her to the kids club during our Palo dinner. She was extatic. We ate - no page. All is well. We go to pick her up a little before 8pm, and now, she is crying because SHE DIDN"T WANT TO LEAVE!!!

You can see, my child only spent 5 hrs in the Oceaneers Club total over a 5 night cruise, and none at Castaway Cay. She is only 3 1/2 (although she has a strong personality - she's small, but mighty, and can certainly hold her own! Watch out!), and I felt perfectly comfortable leaving her there. This is coming from someone who does not leave her child!

That's just my one opinion & situation, but I have praise for the Oceaneer Club.

[Silverfox97]

I was researching Disney Dream and saw all the wonderful plans for kids' areas, and then realized it was a "kids club" instead of just a play area for the whole family (like Honey, I Shrunk the Kids playground at DHS.) So I started reading these threads about kids' clubs, and I'm just so surprised to hear all of this.

I'll admit, our three boys (ages pre-school to pre-teen) are not fans of kids' clubs anywhere - they know these clubs have been available to them at WDW, and on vacations to resorts in Florida, Park City, Martha's Vineyard and Mexico. They aren't clingy or scared by any means - they're generally independent. We just like to do things together, and they enjoy sticking with their little brother for little kid stuff at WDW and DL to see his reaction. They occasionally go on a ride at WDW by themselves (mission space, for example) but they've said it's more fun with at least one of us along. The wide variety of activities available to the entire family is one of the main reasons we love WDW and DL so much.

So given all of this, and the fact that we've never been on any cruise before, what do you all think about the idea of stopping by the kids clubs together? Can we go in with our youngest and play with him in the Toy Story room or the Nemo sub? We wouldn't do that in the kids' clubs at Disney resorts, because they exist for the purpose of childcare - is that pretty much the same for the kids' clubs on DCL? I know we won't know the specifics on Dream until January, but what do you all think based on your experiences on existing cruises? Not sure if a cruise is for us, and some of these threads make it look like kids and adults often go their own way, so I'd appreciate any responses.

You can certainly go in with your child to play. They give you a "visitor" sticker and you can go in. I would've never left DD there without checking it out with her first.

[jitsb]

We've only ever sailed on the Magic, but I have never seen, or heard, anything like this. That's awful! :sad2: The counselors on our most recent cruise were fabulous! In fact, several of them went so far above and beyond, we included them in our survey response. :thumbsup2

The first time we cruised, our youngest was just barely 3 and, while the Club was a bit overwhelming for him, he actually enjoyed being able to grab a book and sit by himself quietly for awhile. He missed us some, but never indicated that he felt left out or ignored.

Our most recent experience, now that the children were able to move freely from one area to the other, was that they actually had a lot more interaction from the Counselors. Every time we showed up, the boys were interacting with one of them in some way. Previously, they were either at the front desk, or doing the scheduled activity. Now, we found them helping make crafts, reading stories, playing chess, it was amazing!

pixarmom - we saw lots of parents interacting with their kids in both the Club and the Lab. We were always invited to go find our boys, and often helped out with whatever they were doing. I don't think there'll be any problem with you staying with your kids, especially at the beginning. ;)

[aseyrick]

After reading the posts here, I AM FREAKING OUT!! We're currently booked on 7-day W. Carib on the Magic w/ our 3-yo DS. While we don't plan to have him in the club for more than an hour here and there, I'm now reluctant to have him there at all!! Are there recent cruisers who can share brighter experiences w/ the club?? Otherwise, we may have to look elsewhere for our vacation needs. :eek: