Fast Pass Booklets

[lrodk]

We've discussed the possibility of Disney charging a seperate fee for Fast Passes on-demand to a limited number of guests each day. these passes would allow guest who purchase them to use their stubs on any ride(s) in that particular park at any time of their choosing. I've always felt that this was an innevitable off-shoot of the current program, bringing in a new source of revenue for those fixed number of guest who would embrace it. Well, it seems that Universal Studios has lowered the bar first. This comes from their site today:

"Screamscape has been informed that IOA (and we assume USF) are now selling books of Universal Express passes at the front gates that will allow you instant access to any attraction with an Express entrance. Does anyone know how many tickets are in the books and what the price may be?"

If true, you know it's only going to be a matter of time before we see this at Disney's parks. Keep in mind that this would not replace Fast Pass. Likely they would simply offer a limited number of booklets to guests on a first-come-first-served basis, or perhaps as an incentive for on-site guests or for those who purchase certain packages. If done on a small scale, which I suspect would be the only way to do it without putting FP at risk, I think it could enhace the vacation experience for those guests cut for time. Hopefully when it happens they will procede with caution so as not to alienate all of the other guests.

[mrtoadslastride]

I assumed that Disney would go this route at some point. I really hate to see it as will really start to divide park guests by how much they can spend.

We use Fast Pass whenever we can in the parks, but it is always annoying when you are in the stand by line and the Fast Passers just breeze by you one after the other. This will only get worse if I know that some of them paid for the right to cut in front of me.

[lrodk]

This will only get worse if I know that some of them paid for the right to cut in front of me.

I think the whole trick will be that guests would have no way of knowing who paid and who had a valid FP the way we know it today. Premium FastPass holders would probably share the same lines with regular FP holders, and the only people who would really know for sure would be the cast members who accept the tickets at the entrance to the FP line. Without guests knowing for sure, I really don't see how this would create resentment amongst guests on the regular line.

[EUROPA]

Well screamscape is a little late on this news. Universal tried this last year as well. They limit the number of them they sell on a dialy basis. Universal has attempted many things to reduce the amont of time guest wait in line and it seems this time to make a little coin as well. For the frist year or so that IOA opened they gave out FOTL tickets to mulit-day/park ticket holders that was good for each of the more popular rides... as well as early entry for the parks. Let me tell you it was fun. I hope this stays as a very small portion of thier profit which will keep it from replacing Express pass at Universal or the FOTL access. Lets hope the sharks don't get the smell of blood in the water or we will be paying for stuff that should be free.

[lrodk]

Yes Europa, I remember when they did that. But the fact that they're charging seperately now for these passes changes everything. I suspect that this is just the beginning of the ever increasing pay-per-use options that guests will have at all of the major parks in Orlando. John Hench at Imagineering had hinted in the past about E-ticket attractions within the parks that would only be available to guests who pay a seperate fee. This may be the first evolution towards that transition. Mr Hench's bold prediction may be a way off, but there's no doubt in my mind that this is where we're heading. If it makes sense in the form of increased streaming revenue opportunities, then you can rest assured that Disney will make it happen. Just think about how for years now they've been unwilling to shell out the tens of millions of dollars that it takes to develop innovative rides like Tower of Terror, Test Track, and Indian Jones, unless of course they could subsidize it through corporate sponsorship. With corporate sponsorship becoming ever more difficult to secure, premium E-tickets may be a viable way for them to fund such projects.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by lrodk
[B]Yes Europa, I remember when they did that. But the fact that they're charging seperately now for these passes changes everything.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear...they sold the books as well last year.

They also gave away free passes to mulit-day/park holders.

So it still not anything new. It's all up the consumer at this point...if anyone ask you if you would like to pay extra this is your chance to stop it in it's tracks by saying no. Make sure to give them a piece of you mind about it as well.

[lrodk]

Thank you Europa for the clarification. You are correct when you say that it's up to the guests with regard to the success or failure of this program. Let me state for the record that i would be one of those willing to purchase these booklets for a reasonable charge.. From my point of view, I would jump all over a booklet of 10 passes for say $20.

I could picture it now....We could get most of the rides out of the way by noon, just in time for lunch, and then go back to the hotel for a pool break and nap. Then return in the early evening and take in the park at a nice leisurely pace. It would almost be like an E-Ride night experience(which can be rather erratic), except early enough for the family crowd and with the rest of the day ahead of you. I wouldn't purchase these every day mind you, but maybe once during the trip, which is about how often we do E-Ride nights. I love the idea.

[DVC-Landbaron]

if anyone ask you if you would like to pay extra this is your chance to stop it in it's tracks by saying no. Don't you think that's a little unrealistic? Not that I don't agree with you. But I think if people are willing to pay twelve bucks a copy for three hours of a very limited park when they used to get it for free, they're going to swarm on this concept to avoid several hours in line!

All I know is that three years from now, someone new on the DIS Rumors and News Board will totally not "get it" when I post that Ei$ner created a caste system within the parks just as he did with the resorts!! And I will be very frustrated (again!!!)!!!

Oh well. I'm off to Disney in a few hours!! :bounce:


WOW!!! Do come off as confused as I feel!! :crazy:

[Bob O]

Have a good vacation DVC!!!
I think it is a bad idea, but one wdw will jump on it successful at USF. I like the free concept at wdw,but making you pay for it makes the parks no better than SF.

[EUROPA]

There is a breaking point to this system where they sell so many front of the line tickets that it becomes longer then the max 15 min wait they promise and could end up being just as long as the stand by line....it seems Universal already knows this as well, and that is why they limit the number they sell on a given day. It really does not affect my vacation that much as we go in Nov but I would hate to see this become the norm.

[All Aboard]

Wait a minute, hold the phone!!! BobO, have you undergone a renaissance of sorts? I thought you were a big fan of perks such as this for those who could afford it.

[Bob O]

gcurling, i have no problem with wdw giving extra fastpasses to resort guests for staying on site. But i dont like the idea of selling fastpass tickets like is done at SF parks. I can see them giving a inducement to stay onsite but not as another item to sell.

[Another Voice]

Disney has already begun the process.

Since the opening of California Adventure, many of the vacation packages include a single “good anytime, anywhere” Fast Pass. Higher priced packages include one free ticket for each day and I remember seeing one very high priced package that included a bundle of five “magic” FastPasses per person per day. Basically the more you spend the more tickets you got. Of course Disneyland has far fewer hotel rooms than WDW, but the parks also have far fewer FastPass attractions. The run here is considered a test run for the concept.

Of course, the whole concept is nothing really but a long and expensive way to get all the way back to where Disney started. Is there really that much difference between paying for admission and then either ride surcharges and/or line by-passes than Walt’s good old ticket books? Guests paid a general admission fee and a number of ride tickets. The A through E system served to regulate guest flow through the parks by limiting the number of major attractions a guest could go on (without buying additional tickets), served to direct crowds to under utilized attractions (got to use those C’s on something) and allowed Disney to finance additional attractions by generating additional ticket sales.

In the old system if there were five E-ticket class rides you want to see, you bought five E-tickets. Under the present system the only “cost” to the guest after admission is just time. There was a financial incentive under to old plan for Disney to keep rides open and to offer bigger (i.e. higher price ticket) attractions. Under the present system Disney has no incentive after you pass through the gate. A ride can not be financially justified unless it raises overall park attendance or results in increased food or merchandise sales. Wonder why all the new rides have those photo places?

[DisneyKidds]

AV - exactly what I was thinking when I read this, a return to the A-E type ticket system of yesteryear. Of course, admission costs $50 nowadays - I wonder what that would be in 1972 dollars? I assume that todays price is relatively much higher than the 1972 general admission price. Makes it a little distasteful to charge additional money for certain rides. Of course, any such system implemented today will just provide the opportunity for extra rides with less wait, while the general admission still gives you general access.

The one thing I question is the idea that additional revenue from 'premium fastpass' sales will ever really lead to more new big ticket attractions. Assuming they sold 5,000 'premium fastpass' booklets a day at $20 a pop they might net $30 mil in a year - a relative drop in the bucket which they would likely let fall to the bottom line (what car am I in? ;)). How much does it cost to put in a new E-ticket anyway?

[EUROPA]

Well for one reason or another the ticket system was abandoned. I'm sure it was a money issue as someone thought they could make more money by charging a flat rate at the gate. Think about it. " If we charge everybody a high price to get in even the kids and the grandparents who don't ride all of the attractions then we will still be getting money even if they don't ride." Where as with the ticket system you had a lot of freeloaders on the system. People that got in but never purchased the ticket books or shared a ticket book between a few people. Think about all the people that you see in the parks that could not, or would not ever ride an E-ticket attraction. In today’s system that’s ok because Disney has already hit them up when the walked in the park

Were the lines really that better on E-Ticket attractions back then? I really have no idea.

[d-r]

I am glad to hear about it at IOA. The reason Melissa and I haven't been there yet - and we keep saying we will go - is because 1. we already have tickets to disney with our passes, and so it seems silly to buy another, and 2. we don't want to stay there, and so we think we would get frustrated waiting in line while people who stay at the IOA hotels get to go to the front of the line. So if we could buy a book of those passes without staying at the ioa hotel we probably would do it.

Also, I would buy them at Disney World - I would hope that you don't have to use them all in the same day or the same park, that would make it a little less worth it to me, but it would be great to have one handy if you took the notion to get on to a ride that had a line. I think I would love it.

As for this being a separation between people who can and can not afford it, I don't buy it really. After you have paid all that money to get to disney in the first place, paying another 10-20 bucks is a choice that you can choose to make or not based on how much it is worth it to you - buy one less mug or t-shirt if you choose to get it, if you would rather have the mug or t-shirt, fine, don't get it. I do not think it is honest to think that there aren't already differences at walt disney world based on ability to afford it - I may choose to spend $150 for dinner at artist point or flying fish, or I may choose to spend $20 for dinner at cosmic ray's or columbia harbor house and use the extra $130 to go to pleasure island and drink beer (a silly example, but my point is, disney world is going to cost money and people can choose how they want to spend it). To me, after we have already paid $300 or whatever for the plane ticket, it would be worth $20 or so to get the fast passes. To us, time is our biggest expense - we usually go for three or four day weekends, and the price would be worth it. Just like e-nights are worth it, when we they used to offer it in months that we go. It is money really well spent if you ask me. I'm sure that other people's opinions will be different, and that is fine - they should choose not to use them. I don't think anyone's experience would be very different - they would have to put out a small number of the passes, and slow down the rates on the fast passes correspondingly, so your guest experience if you choose not to buy them, or are unable because they are sold out, would be the same. I only would hope that you are able to get them before hand at your resort or something because it would suck to have to wake up to get into a sort of rope drop to get them.

DR

[Belle1962]

Does anyone really think Disney would only charge $20.00 for this perk? I think that would be great but to keep it "special" and limit it they would probably charge more. (These are, after all, the same people who bring you the $2.50 bottle of water). If they only charged $20.00 (or some other lower fee that EVERYONE could afford) and then LIMITED the number of books available---there would be a rush to get these books to rival the the panic to get Cindy's for breakfast! Even if they limit it to on site guests --there still would need to be some sort of limit on the number of books sold--thus creating a supply and demand situation which could translate to big bucks.

[EUROPA]

If I'm not mistaken the ones at USF are for each attraction. One for the Hulk one for Spiderman..and so on. If Disney did do this it might replace something like E-Night in the MK where only 5,000 guest are allowed in. I don't really see the exact same system working at Epcot where there are not enough E-Ticket attractions to take advandage of this. Unless Disney's version included generic tickets that could be used in any park or any attraction. Then again how would they predict crowd levels? Something like this at Disney could wreck traffic patterns. Now you have a bunch of people with Tickets that can go on any ride they chose at anytime. Disney likes to control those patterns and this would not allow them to do so. They could attempt something like limiting the days or time on which they can be used ,Universal did the same thing with earlier versions of Express pass and FOTL access that were included with Multi-day/park ticket holders. Universal does not have the attendace figures that Disney does though so it worked out. In Universal's case they allowed those guest in early as well as limiting the time that a guest could use the tickets. 8-10 depending on opening time of course.

[larworth]

From a personal perspective going back to ticket books would be the worst. Last thing I need is another set of $ decisions to impinge on the day. Plus, if you are more on the commando end of the scale you know how good a value you are getting with a fixed admission.

Tickets would provide the best operations data. It would be clear what attractions are the best revenue generators. This should lead to the best overall portfolio of attractions. Might also make it easier to justify something new.

Of course under current management, every attraction would be an independent profit center. Wait times would be replaced with load factor admission prices (like the airlines). Prices would instantaneously change as the queues emptied and filled. A Pressler dream.

[YoHo]

According to the Internet inflation Calculator, a $50 ticket in 2001 money would cost you $11.89 in 1972 money.
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

According to number Gcurling provided last year, the price of a Single Day park addmission has only risen 3 times beyond the rate of inflation since it was introduced. Those three times were all in the 80s since that time it has risen at the rate of inflation fairly exclusivly.

[raidermatt]

I don't mind the "extra" FastPasses showing up as parts of packages, or for certain resort guests. This seems much less crass than just charging for them at the front gate.

Personally, if I think its a good value, I'll buy them, but that doesn't mean I'd agree with the philosophy.

Make them a "perk" instead of just a plain old product.

[lrodk]

Does anyone really think Disney would only charge $20.00 for this perk?

Currently Universal Studios is charging $21 plus tax, and IOA is charging $25 plus tax. The booklet has one Express Pass for each of the rides in the park.

Given the prices that US is charging, it wouldn't be a stretch for Disney to charge somewhere in the same ballpark, especially if US's booklets prove popular. We'll have to wait and see.

[RandyJ]

See the attached article for more information on what the competitors are doing. I have never tried to post a link before, so accept my apologies if it does not work.


http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067672

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by RandyJ
See the attached article for more information on what the competitors are doing. I have never tried to post a link before, so accept my apologies if it does not work.


http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067672

I saw the article the other day; it's not really new information though. Universal has been having the VIP tours for a few years now. By the way..you can get a guided tour at Disney as well if you have enough money. Seems that Universal is faulted for making it affordable in this case. FOTL access for the on-site guest is well known. Funny how they say Fastpass is free but don't say that Express pass at Universal is free also (which it is unless you willing to buy the Express pass books they have been selling on a limited basis for the past year or so). Remember you can still get an Express pass with your ticket for a future return time. Seems the writer was a little confused on all the options but who could really blame him

[Bstanley]

I predict the Universal hotels will become a literal goldmine for Loew's as soon as people notice that they can save $80 - $100 a DAY for their family of four by simply staying at one of the Universal hotels (FOTL privilege) instead of buying the Express Pass booklet.

Make your reservations NOW - before they stop giving out discounts!

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Bstanley
I predict the Universal hotels will become a literal goldmine for Loew's as soon as people notice that they can save $80 - $100 a DAY for their family of four by simply staying at one of the Universal hotels (FOTL privilege) instead of buying the Express Pass booklet.

Make your reservations NOW - before they stop giving out discounts!

There has been talk that once the Third Hotel was finished and all the Hotels start running at full capacity to limit the FOTL access to a reasonable number per day. Some of the rumors were once per hour per ride, or some other number. I guess only time will tell. As attendace picks up I see these two options disappearing at Universal as the FOTL and Paid for Express passes wreck wait times in the Express lines.

[All Aboard]

Europa, I wonder about that myself. It seems as though FOTL + booklets (two instruments that Universal has no control of flow - other than the limit on numbers) could become a big monkey wrench in the whole Express system. Nothing prevents several hundred guests from choosing to use their FOTL or ride coupon for Spidey at the same time. The more guests roaming around the parks with the privelege, the greater the possibility becomes.

BStanley, that does sound like an excellent selling point for the on-site hotels. Book the RPH and just about make up for your room rate it in FOTL savings. Heck, the room's "free" with the Entertainer rate of $99 for a family of 4! Plus, you aren't limited to one coupon per attraction, you can go as many times as you want. If nothing else, the offer of these booklets benchmarks the value of the FOTL privelege.

[doubletrouble_vb]

I don't really see how you could make paying for booklets work at Disney...not without severely restricting them. However there are some really nice variations disney could do.

1. Ever check out the prices they charge for the tours? Disney could do a Fastpass/Commando tour where you pay $80 above the park entry fee...you get a tour guide, lunch & exit entry to the E-ticket rides you are touring. The $80 would be per park not per day....and they would get it.

2. Or...Disney could set up a Fastpass reservation plan. Check into your hotel then get a limited number of Fastpasses scheduled at your convenience just as you would make restaurant reservations. This allows them to give a perk to hotel guests and still manage the fast pass line flow. The additional benefit to the hotel guest is that they should still be able to use the normal fast pass system...doubling their benefits.

[st_claire]

I really don't think the idea of selling fastpass tickets is a good one. I mean the parks are so expensive already, and the booklets costs almost half the price of going to the park. What about some not so well off family who saves for years just to take their kids on this one vacation so that they can experience some magic too, only to have to wait in an extra long line because all these other people get to walk right on. I know that even with the free fastpass system, the regular line wait times have significantly increased. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by st_claire
I really don't think the idea of selling fastpass tickets is a good one. I mean the parks are so expensive already, and the booklets costs almost half the price of going to the park. What about some not so well off family who saves for years just to take their kids on this one vacation so that they can experience some magic too, only to have to wait in an extra long line because all these other people get to walk right on. I know that even with the free fastpass system, the regular line wait times have significantly increased. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

Life isn't always fair.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by st_claire
I really don't think the idea of selling fastpass tickets is a good one. I mean the parks are so expensive already, and the booklets costs almost half the price of going to the park. What about some not so well off family who saves for years just to take their kids on this one vacation so that they can experience some magic too, only to have to wait in an extra long line because all these other people get to walk right on. I know that even with the free fastpass system, the regular line wait times have significantly increased. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

Life isn't always fair.

Anne

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by ducklite


Life isn't always fair.

Anne

Very true. However, if enough people decide to quit going to Disney because of this (sale of Fast Pass booklets), it will end up costing Disney $$.

I do not believe we will see widespread sale of FP access, because if it is not very, very carefully managed and promoted, lines will increase to the point that attendance will decrease. IMHO, the most that will happen is Disney will make add'l FP access (beyond what is available to general public now for free) one of the hotel package or park tour perqs.

[DisneyKidds]

Life isn't always fair.

Very true, and Disney is a business. The Company does not exist to be fair to everyone - it exists to make money, as does any company. However, fairness is something that Disney, more so than other destinations IMO, has to concern themselves with. Part of Disney is it's squeaky clean image, its appeal and targeting to families. I think Universal and others can get away with doing something like this that may not be 'fair' and not get too much heat from the press. However, Disney would get lambasted, more so than other companies, for putting Walts dream beyond the reach of many. I know, many can't go anyway. However, fairness isn't really an issue for Disney right now. I don't think it would be in their best interest to make it one - even for a short term jump in the bottom line. I think that Disney instituting an 'unfair' practice could hurt them in the long run. Most of us who dabble on these boards would still go and shell out the extra bucks, but would it turn off some potentially new customers who might be on the fence?

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I think that Disney instituting an 'unfair' practice could hurt them in the long run I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that offering a higher level of service in exchange for more money is "unfair?"

How is offering extra FastPass access in return for extra money over park admission any different than offering extra hotel facilities in return for the extra money charged by the Deluxe resorts over the Value resorts?

Isn't that just the nature of capitalism... in general, getting more is going to cost you more?

I agree that American capitalism is hugely flawed and distinctly unfair, but that's really another conversation, entirely...

-WFH

[DisneyKidds]

Brrr, it's cold. http://www.btinternet.com/~tonyrichardson/cold.gif Call off the dogs....

Someone else indicated it may be unfair. If you notice, I use 'unfair'. See those little marks on either side? As I indicated, I'd more than happily take advantage if they offered fastpasses for money. If someone else can't afford it - well, that's not my problem. It is the way our capitalist society works and if I work my a** off and can afford it it is something I earned and it may not be unfair that others can't have. As ducklite said, that's life.

However, I do believe that implementing something that is PERCEIVED as unfair could get Disney some negative attention that they might not want. I could be wrong.

[All Aboard]

I've been strongly opposed to this concept since it first started circulating on the web shortly after Fastpass was introduced. However, I'm not sure I would use the phrase "unfair" to describe it.

In general, I agree with the Cryonoggin's points. But, I disagree with his comparison of paid Fastpass to levels of resorts. The fact that someone can afford to stay at the Grand Floridian and get all of the amenities that come with the purchase does not have a negative impact on the quality of stay that I have at Dixie Landings. However, a program such as the one described here could very easily have a negative impact on the experience others (non-afforders) have in the theme parks. I'm reluctant to toss out "fair" as a descriptor, but it could potentially be the introduction of life as a "have" or "have not" in the theme parks. Especially if restriction to Deluxe Resort guests or very high coupon book prices were the basis for purchase.

[seashoreCM]

Ordinary fastpasses are issued so that only a limited number can be used during any given hour.

But all of these new variations of fastpasses don't have time constraints for when they can be used. There must always be severe limits on how many of these new untimed fastpasses exist otherwise the fastpass line will get long if too many show up at a given ride at a given time. The idea of making appointments ("PS's for rides"?) at a resort or at a park kiosk can help with keeping too many people from showing up at one place at one time. You choose your times in advance, pay your fee, and a custom made fastpass book is printed up on the spot thanks to modern laser printers. (And the computer can keep track of how many fastpasses were issued for each hour.)

>>> I really don't think the idea of selling fastpass tickets is a good one.

I cannot fault Disney or Universal for offering something that makes more money. In the short run, if books of fastpasses sell well, they are a success from a business point of view. The only drawback is scaring away the less rich folks causing a corresponding drop in overall revenue.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

[HorizonsFan]

Very true. However, if enough people decide to quit going to Disney because of this (sale of Fast Pass booklets), it will end up costing Disney $$.
In my experience, most people don't bother to do any research at all before booking a WDW vacation. They just pay the money and show up. If they don't bother to buy a guidebook or surf the net for tips, they won't blink at the sale of FP booklets.
There must always be severe limits on how many of these new fastpasses exist otherwise the fastpass line will get long if too many show up at a given ride at a given time.
There probably won't be any limit to the new (extra charge) FP's, the limit will probably be on regular FP's which will just be gone earlier than they are now.
I don't know if it's a good idea or not, only time will tell.

[Walt's Frozen Head]

The fact that someone can afford to stay at the Grand Floridian and get all of the amenities that come with the purchase does not have a negative impact on the quality of stay that I have at Dixie Landings. I don't know... it seems to me that if a person is the sort who would get cranky that some folks were FastPassing them in line, when the FastPasses are available for use by anyone; that they might also be the sort of person who would wonder why they have to walk an extra quarter mile to the Values' bus stop, or why they're kept out of Stormalong Bay, or why they have to go to another resort to eat at one of the nicer restaurants.

I guess I'm coming at it from the opposite direction as you--I don't think it's logically defensible that someone be upset by others using FastPass, free or paid, when that option is available to them, too.

I mean, the basic problem with the FastPass issue is one of jealousy: I don't want to wait in this line right now, and I'm jealous of that person that didn't have to, even though I was presented with the same options. How hard is it to imagine: I don't want to ride this crowded bus, and I'm jealous of that person with a whole row to himself on the Wilderness Lodge boat, even though I could have stayed there?

I just don't think Disney will see this "perceived unfairness" as a compelling business argument against pay-for-play FastPasses.

-WFH

PS: DisneyKidds, my last line is the reason I responded to your post instead of st_claire's. st_claire's post struck me as being a personal statement of how the poster felt about the pay-for-play FP. What I was curious about was your statement that it might be a bad business move based on that 'unfair'ness. I think there's a significant difference between saying "I don't like X" and "Disney should make business decisions based on X not being liked." I wanted to find out more about where you were coming from on that, and what you meant.

My mistake.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HorizonsFan

There probably won't be any limit to the new (extra charge) FP's, the limit will probably be on regular FP's which will just be gone earlier than they are now.
I don't know if it's a good idea or not, only time will tell.

I'm sure they would love to charge everyone...but the problem with the generic Fast Pass issue is with crowd managment. There is no way for Disney to predict when a guest will use them. Yes I know this has been said before (by me) but I think it's a major problem and why I don't think this should be or will be a huge money maker for Disney. The must limit the number of these type of passes or crowd contorl is impossible or near to it.

[PKS44]

Hey, here's a crazy idea...let's look at the world's most visited theme park to see how they do things!

Tokyo Disneyland, which is certainly comparable to the parks in WDW for comparison purposes, uses a three-tiered admission as I understand it.

1)Unlimited use of the place like the only admissions sold at WDW
2)Limited rides -but in the park for ambience, shopping, etc.
3)NO rides, just admission

I believe they use color coded wrist bands, with puch outs on the limited bands.
Such a system might increase revenue by increasing park traffic-capturing a lot of people who might otherwise just stay away for a day or their whole vacation because it is not worth it to them to go for unlimited admission everyday. Somehow Tokyo makes this work so I don't think you can shoot this idea down on principle. Epcot probably would see the biggest uptick in Admission # 3's sold, but would likely see a decrease in #1's...I suspect the difference could be made up in food/beverage,souvenirs,etc and with appropriate pricing between the three options this is something I am surprised US Disney has not explored. (or have they, Mr A-V?)

Paul

[HorizonsFan]

Yes I know this has been said before (by me) but I think it's a major problem and why I don't think this should be or will be a huge money maker for Disney. The must limit the number of these type of passes or crowd contorl is impossible or near to it.
There are a set number of FP's for each day. When they're gone, they're gone. The new passes would be part of that overall number of FP's. Which passes do you think will be limited; the ones that make money or the ones that don't? IMO, the regular FPs will run out about an hour sooner than they do now.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HorizonsFan

There are a set number of FP's for each day. When they're gone, they're gone. The new passes would be part of that overall number of FP's. Which passes do you think will be limited; the ones that make money or the ones that don't? IMO, the regular FPs will run out about an hour sooner than they do now.

The "sold" passes will be limited. There is no return time for those passes. Disney/Universal no longer can contol the crowd patterns with those types of passes. Universal already limits the number of Express Passes that are sold in these books. The number I heard was 5000 per day. Free fastpasses/Expresspasses are already limited each day not sure of the numbers here. There is a breaking point to the this system where the Fastpass/Express line becomes a longer wait then people are willing to pay/or schedual time for(in the case of the "free" ones).

[HorizonsFan]

If they follow the model set at DL/DCA, the "premium" FP's will not have a return time but will have a date (you get so many per day for the length of your stay). I think the system could also easily be tweaked to allow the FP taker to enter when a "premium" FP has been used so that a regular FP can be removed from the total number for that day.
Any number of scenarios are possible; I just think that if there's a choice between limiting something that's free and something that makes money, free loses every time.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HorizonsFan
I just think that if there's a choice between limiting something that's free and something that makes money, free loses every time.

Yep that is excatly why I don't like this idea. We might ended up paying for someting that once was free. There is another issue I'm not sure how much Disney and Universal have invested in the software and the hardware for the Fast/Express pass machines but that might keep them from doing away with the current free passes; however I can see them retrofitting a Credit Card reader and a bill changer to the machines I can see the ad's now....."with just a small charge to your Credit Card you can have front of the line access, if you don't have a credit card we also take checks and cash as well as namig rights to your first born child "

[Safari Steve]

I just found this thread (working a whole lot lately) so I only read the first page... don't know if this has already been covered, but...
It seems to me that there is a slight backlash forming against WDW for something that "that other place" is doing. No anger directed at the company actually imposing a caste system, but instead directed at WDW for possibly doing it in the future (even though that is a conclusion that was jumped to by posters...) What's that about?

I really think that the title should be "U-------l Express Pass Booklets" to avoid at least a little confusion, but maybe that's just me.

[EUROPA]

Maybe you should go back and read the whole thread. I don't see any anger. Just people talking about something that might or is likley to happen. I think its a very valid point that if Universal is doing something then Disney might also attempt the same thing and it goes the other way as well. Some people like the idea of paid fastpasses or express passes and some don't. You might want to take a look at the other threads on the News and Rumors board, as they tend to follow the same pattern. There is no "confusion" if you read the thread. I hope that you don't read the Newspaper that way? Just the headlines ? :)

[fklhou]

This is extremely limited but when you do the Sunrise Saferi, they give you a fast pass that is good for the entire day on any ride at AK. I got a regular fast pass after doing the Sunrise Saferi and then used my special fast pass to ride the ride twice without waiting. My wife used her special fast pass later at Kali. Again, the Sunrise Saferi is now limited to AKL concierge guests and is an additional charge but Disney has the ability to issue special fast passes.

[DisneyKidds]

WFH....

I think there's a significant difference between saying "I don't like X" and "Disney should make business decisions based on X not being liked."

No worries. There is no disagreeing with someone's personal feelings (that it would be unfair - however, I think you did disagree with the idea that it is unfair, right?) but you do disagree that Disney would factor into their decision that some might feel it is unfair. You are probably right, but I still think they might get some bad press if they did it. As much as many complain about having to pay for E night to get what used to be free, those complaints would pale in comparison to what would be seen if they did the pay for play fastpasses, IMO. There is no mistake in looking for clarification ;). I somehow got the impression you were calling me on stating that the idea would be unfair when you feel it isn't. Perhaps my mistake.

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I think you did disagree with the idea that it is unfair, right? I don't think a person could make a logical case that the FP booklet concept was unfair, unless one was taking the really long way home to try to say that American capitalism is inherently unfair.

Under the rules everyone currently plays by, it's solid gold "fair" to give someone extra service for extra money.There is no disagreeing with someone's personal feelings Right. It does no one any good to devalue someone's feelings. The fact that I can't make a logical case to defend all of my own feelings does not make them any less real to me.

But I could understand someone telling me, "those feelings aren't a compelling reason for Disney to make that decision," simply _because_ our feelings aren't always rational.I somehow got the impression you were calling me on stating that the idea would be unfair when you feel it isn't. For me, part of the reason for being here is to weigh the Rumors we see with the way it seems to me the business is being run, and to speculate on which Rumors are the most likely to re-cross our path as News.

As it happens, it looks like we do disagree somewhat on the fairness issue (although it may be mostly semantics). But, why should we bother ourselves over that, because, let's be real, what you and I think about this doesn't amount to doodley-squat. The important question is "what does Disney think about this?"

When I cross-reference my best answer to that question with the current topic, I can say it is overwhelmingly likely that we'll see a pay-for-play FastPass at WDW in some form or another.

-WFH

[raidermatt]

Steve, I understand where you are coming from, and some of the posts could read that way. But I think most realize this is just speculation, and they are just expressing their opinions on the "what if" scenario.

Thanks for providing a reality check.

[raidermatt]

Steve, I understand where you are coming from, and some of the posts could read that way. But I think most realize this is just speculation, and they are just expressing their opinions on the "what if" scenario.

Thanks for providing a reality check.

[Disney Adventurer]

I read through this thread pretty quick so I might have missed something, but has anyone thought of Fast Pass as a replacement for the missing early entry. Now that Fast Pass has been in use for a little while and everyone, including "Day Guests" have had the opportunity to see the benefit, Disney could use this as a perk for staying on site. What if Fast Pass was usable only for guests staying at Disney World Resort? This would obvioulsy upset many people but might be an enticement to stay on site. And with the new Pop Century resort on the horizon, Disney will have many rooms to fill.