Universal Orlando takes Disney by the ears

[DVC-Landbaron]

While all of you were racing around in your appropriate cars, this was published today in the USA Today:

Today article (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/vacations/destinations/2002/2002-06-28-universal.htm)

What’d you guys think?

(All I did was post it. Now I’m going back to read it!!!!)


As always….

PLAY NICE & HAVE FUN!!

[Galahad]

I think Disney does have to be very concerned about competition from Universal these days. But I think this particular article is mostly part of a campaign to salvage Vivendi.

[JimB.]

I agree with Galahad.

It will be curious to see what the furutre holds for Universal now that Vivendi has a few billion $$ less to play with than they did before.

BTW, any new attractions under construction there????

[space42]

I really liked this quote...

"Disney still has the magic, but Universal has the rides,"

Exactly!

I've been to Universal one time and I never plan to go back. Likewise, I've also been to IOA one time and I dont plan on going back there either!

Different strokes for differnt folks I suppose.

I also liked this quote..

"It's now a real alternative to a Disney vacation in Orlando," says park watcher Tim O'Brien, an editor at Amusement Business magazine. "You could come to Orlando for a week now and never set foot in Disney World."

Or you can be like me and goto WDW for a week and never set foot in Orlando!

[Safari Steve]

Pull out your park maps, check the "Safety" info. Shirts and shoes are required at all times. I've never seen anyone "scolded" for not wearing shoes, but we (myself included) do ask everyone with their shoes off to please put them back on for their own safety. Sounds like this was taken WAAAAAAAY out of context, and if that other place doesn't have a similar policy (which wouldn't surprise me, frankly) then couldn't one conclude that they don't care about guest safety?

Hmmm... less than forty attractions in two parks vs more than forty in one park... yeah.... yeah...

[Bstanley]

I guess I'm representative of the people that Universal is aiming at. Prior to IoA opening we would visit USF about every other year during our Orlando trips. When IoA opened we visited it instead.

This past year, with just my youngest and I going, we decided to give HRH a try and visit both Universal parks for a day and then spend 5 days at WDW. And it worked so well that in the future we will probably do the same (unless my wife goes along - she is not big on moving from hotel to hotel). So in effect we have shortened our resort stay at WDW by one night, and added one day to the trip to have 2 days available for Universal.

Universal hasn't really figured out the Magic yet, but there are glimpses of it. And it does have some excellent attractions.

[johare]

BTW, any new attractions under construction there????At the Studios, Hanna Barbara ride is being re-done into a Jimmy Neutron/Nickelodeon ride and a new Shrek attraction will be replacing the old Alfred Hitchcock show. There are rumors for things at IOA, but nothing solid right now.

BTW, any new carnival attractions under construction at Disney? :-)

[OnWithTheShow]

This paragraph is the most telling...

Universal Orlando is different in other ways. It has a more laid-back, irreverent feel than prim-and-proper Disney, where children are scolded for taking off shoes and street-soiling gum is conspicuously absent from stores. Consider Universal's Hard Rock Hotel, which opened last year. "I don't know of another hotel where you're likely to be checked in by a person with a pierced lip," says Williams, who revels in his creation's subversive ways.


-Now the whole shoes thing is a Florida State Health Department rule concerning food service areas which has been expanded by Disney to cover the whole park for safety reasons. So if Universal does not have the same rule at least in regards to food service areas they are in violation of the law.

- irreverent feel ? Does that mean we get to have the rude unkept cast members who couldnt hack it at Disney treat us like crap all day?

- street soiling gum? Great I get to look at attraction signs which I cant even read because they are completely covered in chewed spit out gum!

BTW the two new confirmed attractions at Disney World are both going to be top notch and also expect to hear more official news soon.

[EUROPA]

LOVE..LOVE...UNIVERSAL. Even my wife a die hard Disney fan for many years, loves Universal. There are two great parks over there.

Disney does have one thing going for it....built in Magic....from the start, Disney was geared toward kids ...from the cartoons to the movies...so people have grown up on Disney.

Universal does not have that advantage or the advantage of 30 years in Florida. Nore do they have the advantage of almost 50 years of building attraction One of the most important things that Universal never had was Walt.


I try to to compare the two parks because they are both after different demographics. Even though I do from time to time. I do know one thing Universal has stolen three days away from Disney in my family

[johare]

-Now the whole shoes thing is a Florida State Health Department rule concerning food service areas which has been expanded by Disney to cover the whole park for safety reasons. So if Universal does not have the same rule at least in regards to food service areas they are in violation of the law.I'm sure Universal follows Florida laws just like everyone else. To imply otherwise is ridiculous.

- irreverent feel ? Does that mean we get to have the rude unkept cast members who couldnt hack it at Disney treat us like crap all day?I'm quite sure that most Universal employees weren't rejected by Disney prior to applying at USF. In fact, I've found USF/IOA employees to be every bit as friendly and helpful as Disney CM's...sometimes more so.

- street soiling gum? Great I get to look at attraction signs which I cant even read because they are completely covered in chewed spit out gum!I hope you're joking, because if not, this comment is to asinine to warrant a reply.

BTW the two new confirmed attractions at Disney World are both going to be top notch and also expect to hear more official news soon.Wow, even better than Primeval Whirl and the Aladdin's Magic Carpets!

[doubletrouble_vb]

Such venom towards Universal! Universal doesn't have the magic of Disney. In the past I would go there every other year. With IOA I will still go every couple of years...with one big difference...I will now have a Disney year and I'll have a notDisney year...in the past Disney always made it in for one or two days.

I love thrill rides, I love theme rides...I think Disney & Universal service each need rather nicely. Universal is a wonderfully visceral experience...even on the way out through City Walk. If there is one thing Disney could study more closely it would be City Walk...

Disney is a wonderfully encapsulating experience...at little less so with the cost cutting but there is still nothing like it. Don't get me wrong....I'm on my skateboard hanging on to car 2 but Disney still gets my money...just not as much of it.

[larworth]

I didn't see much new in the article other than Universal getting some good exposure. It will be interesting to see what affect any of this (travel channel specials, new commercials, more general media presence) has on their attendance. There is no doubt they still suffer from a lack of consumer awareness.

I continue to find the Universal parks a good compliment to the Disney experience. I can only see positives in them continuing to expand and grow.

No reason why Disney should not be a little dismissive in their response. However, it does seem like these quotes are usually the normAny time you have a player that does things to bring new people to the (Orlando) market, it's good (for everybody)," he says. "We're going to get our fair shareThey both do seem to take the high road in this regard. One might expect a little more direct counter marketing.

[YoHo]

There was so much spin in that Article, I think I'm dizzy.


I'm flabergasted that someone would consider the lack of chewing gum and high cleanliness policies of Disney world a BAD thing.

The Shirt and Shoes thing. Again, it just sounds like spin.
Still, the real concern is exposuer. Every Time Universal is featured in a Major Media Outlet, more people will check it out and if it is good, they will stay. Great Rides are not the only thing it takes. Example, I know some people that had no idea IOA existed until they saw it on the Travel Channel. They are Rollercoaster fans and immediatly planned a cross country trip to Florida JUST for IOA.

[roymccoy]

Disney has nothing to worry about...just as long as they stick to the quality and vision of Walt Disney. "The Grinch" or "The Incredible Hulk" aren't going to knock Disney out of the lead in Orlando. Only one thing could, a management team that takes Disney down a notch and plays on a field level to, or lower than Universal. When I look at Pirates of the Carribean, I say that there is no way Universal can touch Disney. When I see Dinoland, Pop Century and DCA...I start to wonder. If Disney sticks to it's strengths and continues to spend large amounts of money on the parks and keep the quailty up they have nothing to worry about. If they ae going to play Universals game, than they very well might come out the loser in the end.

IMHO

Roy

[EUROPA]

Why is when people do compare Disney and Universal they always match Universal rides or attractions to Disney attractions that can't be compared. Example a character or Roller Coaster to Pirates. ? Like I’ve said before I like both places Disney still wins hands down over Universal. I really don’t like comparing the two but if your going to do at least compare things that similar.

Especially when there are more obvious comparessions.

Hulk or Dueling Dragons vs. Aerosmith. (Ok Aeorsmith has music and it's inside a building with better themeing But come on Hulk and Dragons are far better rides and coasters.)

Bilge-Rat Barges Vs. Kali River ride in AK ( Bilge-Rat wins hands down)

MIB vs. Buzzlightyear. ( I Like both..MIB is more active though)

Dudley Do rights vs. Splash Mt.(Splash wins hands down...but the drop is better on Dudley)

Terminator vs. any of Disney's 3/4-d Attractions. (Terminator-WOW!!!)

Spiderman vs. HM or Pirates (Spiderman wins hands down)

JP River adventure vs... Ok no compression here.

Dr. Doom vs. Tower of Terror ( your kidding right…Tower of Terror is the best)

Disney does have the best themeing of the two. As well as many other things like parades, The Castle, Alien Encounter, EPCOT, AK. Which is the reason why we spend 3 days at Universal and 7 at Disney. Disney is still my favorite place on earth with Universal being a great second place runner up.

I would just like to see people comparing fruit to fruit at least. Not fruit to people dressed up like the Grinch.

[YoHo]

Um, I would suggest that Spiderman be compared to Indiana Jones and the Temple of the forbidden Eye, or Dinosaur. Haunted mansion and PotC are entirely Passive while Indy and Dinosaur put you in the midst and have the bumps and jerks.

Spidey still wins, but it much more fair.

[EUROPA]

I compre the two because both try to do the same thing...that is immerse the guest into the attraction/ride. I have a feeling that if Pirates or HM would have been built today by Walt that they would have elements like Spiderman.

I've never ridden the other two rides so I can't speak on them...I'll admit that may be a better comparsion in this case though.

[YoHo]

The WAY that Indy and Dinosaur Emerse you is in essence the same as the way Spidey does it (spidey adds some 3D bells and whistles that put it over the top)

PotC and Hm are far more Passive expireances which works very well for them. very cool in its own right.

[raidermatt]

Roy summed up the reality of the situation very well with these two statements:

Disney has nothing to worry about...just as long as they stick to the quality and vision of Walt Disney.
When I look at Pirates of the Carribean, I say that there is no way Universal can touch Disney. When I see Dinoland, Pop Century and DCA...I start to wonder.

Love 'em or hate 'em, Universal's higher percentage of thrill rides exclude a significant portion of potential resort guests. There are people who just cannot ride these, either because of height, health, or "squeamishness". Take away the "thrill" rides from both resorts, and the gap is undeniable, and not closing.

Additionally, while Universal has certainly upped the quality level beyond Six Flags, they have not produced quality attractions at anywhere near the rate Disney has over the years.

If the question is can Universal survive and even thrive in Orlando, the answer is absolutely, provided they remain committed. Yes, they have spent a lot of money in the last three years. Are they prepared to continue, even with mgmt changes and even if returns are not what they originally envisioned? We'll see.

If the question is will they put a serious hurt into Disney, the answer depends on whether Disney is committed to developing its parks/resorts with quality, or with "just enough to get by". If its the former, Universal will never have a negative impact on Disney. If its the latter (Dinorama?), eventually they will if they are more committed than Disney.

[Bob O]

You cant compare Indy to Spiderman as this is a comparison between WDW and USF. And comparing Dinosaur to Spiderman is a big joke!!!
I think if Universal wanted to build a POTC/HM they could, but they dont want to be a copy carbon of wdw. Its the same as saying that Disney couldnt build a T23D/Spiderman/MIB/Back to the Future. I believe they could but choose not too.
I think both theme parks are excellant and hopefully competition will force both to create better attractions for all of us.
Universal already has had negative impact on wdw. Without a USF people who go to florida more than likely would spend more time at wdw, the same goes for people at CityWalk or USF onsite hotels. My family nows spends 3 days at USF/Onsite hotels which reduces the amount of nights i stay at wdw and at there theme parks. Most people only have a certain amount of vacation time and every time they decide to go to USF that is likely to have a negative impact on disney. Unless you believe people are going to FLA to see Universal only and at the last minute decide to go to wdw.

[JustBob]

But, responding to Johare's blowing off of the gum comment, I've gotta say that we have a park here in Denver that doesn't do anything about the gum and it's a disgusting mess. In a previous incarnation of the park they actually had a tree covered with people's wads of gum. Now the park is owned by 6 flags, so of course it's as bad or worse than ever.

Just my 2 cents.:rolleyes:

[larworth]

When O'Brien said "Universal has the rides" I took that as rides in the broadest sense (attractions) and not just thrill rides. Since Disney has so many more attractions (rides) it is an interesting perception. Must be the ratio (attractions to total entertainment offered) that causes this? Since Disney offers so much more they do have a lower ride ratio.

However, if we built a one-day Disney park with their best attractions and a one-day Universal park with the same I still can't see Universal as a clear winner. At best a toss-up? I was thinking about my top 12-15 attractions from each.

Things we could add to Europa's list:

BTTF vs Star Tours
Cat in the Hat vs Pan or Pooh
Twister vs Alien Encounter
ET vs Pirates or HM
Playground vs Playground

Of couse excluding shows. parades, and spectacles is a big equalizer.

[johare]

But, responding to Johare's blowing off of the gum comment, I've gotta say that we have a park here in Denver that doesn't do anything about the gum and it's a disgusting mess. In a previous incarnation of the park they actually had a tree covered with people's wads of gum. Now the park is owned by 6 flags, so of course it's as bad or worse than ever.I blew off the comment as it applies to USF/IOA. I've NEVER seen any problem with gum on the ground at any Disney OR Universal Park...in fact, I don't think SeaWorld even has a problem with it. Cleanliness at Universal is right up there with Disney. Six Flags is a completely different story...those parks are filthy and disgusting.

[YoHo]

How can you blow off the point of a thread?
johare. I'm inclined to agree that Universal has never exhibited a "GUm" Problem, but it's there PR guy that basically says that a little gum on the ground is a good thing and Disney is a bunch of anal retentive freaks for caring so much. That Statement of Universal PR is beyond ludicrous regardless of the Park's Gumlessness (?!?)

[raidermatt]

Good point yoho.

Also, I found this quote "interesting":

"I don't know of another hotel where you're likely to be checked in by a person with a pierced lip,..."

To each his/her own, but I don't exactly see this to be something most WDW guests are looking for. Most people who consider this to be a plus probably don't visit WDW that much. That would be one reason why Universal added millions of guests without WDW suffering. They're going after a different market and they know it. Sure, there's some overlap, but not enough to make anybody at WDW squirm.

Most of us seem to agree that a little competition is good, and will force Disney to invest in the parks. However, maybe we should re-think this. We also thought that if attendance fell at a Disney park (DCA), mgmt would be forced to re-think their ways, and go in a different direction. Instead, as AV points out, that may not be the case. Their response might simply be to give up and do things cheaper to keep making money.

Any chance they would respond in this manner if Universal did start to suck away the very profitable family guests?

[OnWithTheShow]

Hey, don't get me wrong I really like IOA (not a big fan of Universal Studios). I think it is a great park with some serious thrill rides that at some points even make an attempt at theming (IE Dueling Dragons queue). However it still doesnt stack up to Disney in any regard other than thrills. It definitely outrates any Six Flags I have visited in every category. The gum story is a real true tale from the Spiderman queue. I do personally know many Univeral cast members who work there because they got terminated from Disney for one reason or another and I am not insulting there cast there are many Universal cast members who certainly are more friendly than some of the people I have worked with Disney. I apologize if my comments came out the wrong way. Just trying to start a friendly discussion!

[KNWVIKING]

My two sons were 20 & 17 last time they went to WDW. They enjoyed themselves but did get bored. They do like the thrill rides and do not yet appriciate WDW for it being more then just rides. I know the crowd IOA is shooting for but I think they failed. As far as thrill ride parks go,the SIX FLAGG parks beat IOA easily. Whats IOA got:Dueling dragons are just average coasters that usually just beat your head around & leave you with a headache. Hulk is a good coaster,but I prefer Aerosmith. Dudley's log flume is poorly themed and basically you need to realize that you will get soakingwet not because of the drop & splash but because they blast you with water cannons when you hit the bottom. I personally don't want to spend a late December day soaking wet. Dr Doom...please,what a waste. Spiderman is a great ride,wish Disney had it. Overall I don't see where the park is more then a one day trip every other year.

I do prefer City Walk to PI & there are some great attractions in US. I like the way US puts you in parking garages & uses the people movers to get you into the parks.I don't like all the wasted acres of parking lots in WDW. I realize,space isn't an issue at WDW and parking garages are more costly,but I just don't like acres of asphault.

My oldest boy graduates next June. We're planning a trip to Orlando that won't include WDW. We're staying right on I-drive and getting our sons the Orlando Flex Pass. We think they'll enjoy Sea World, Wet-nWild,IOA & US more the WDW. But I know when they get older & have their own kids,WDW will be where they'll go.

[raidermatt]

The gum story is a real true tale from the Spiderman queue.
I do personally know many Univeral cast members who work there because they got terminated from Disney for one reason or another
I apologize if my comments came out the wrong way. Just trying to start a friendly discussion!

Show, no need to apologize for passing on your experiences and insights. They are very helpful and offer an inside perspective most of us do not have.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Hey, don't get me wrong I really like IOA (not a big fan of Universal Studios).Me either. I have only been to Universal once. I liked it, but I have no burning desire to go back. I am going to try IOA for the first time this year. We’ll see!!I apologize if my comments came out the wrong way. Welcome to the club!! ;)Just trying to start a friendly discussion!Yep! Don’t ya just love it!!!!

BTW the two new confirmed attractions at Disney World are both going to be top notch and also expect to hear more official news soon.Hmmm. Didn’t anyone else notice this? I found this a bit intriguing. Care to elaborate Mr. Show!?

[raidermatt]

An article on Vivendi's current cash crunch. Ouch.

OS article on Vivendi (http://orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-bizvivendi03070302jul03.story)

Here's the text:

NEW YORK -- If the ouster of flamboyant chief executive Jean-Marie Messier was meant to calm the turmoil at Vivendi Universal, it didn't work.

Bond downgrades by rating agencies Moody's Investors Service and Standard & Poor's sparked near-panic selling in Paris where Vivendi shares on Tuesday plunged 25 percent to a 15-year low. The S&P report indicated Vivendi's debt obligation this year is $3 billion higher than many analysts had expected.

Suddenly, investors were less concerned about the media conglomerate's fuzzy strategic focus and management woes than its ability to survive a severe cash crunch. Vivendi's new management now must negotiate at a disadvantage with the big European banks that control the company's future and with potential buyers of properties that may need to be sold more quickly that originally planned, analysts said.

Some of the company's signature properties could go on the block, analysts said, including Universal Studios, Universal Music, French pay-TV unit Canal Plus, and French wireless-phone company Cegetel.

The company has scheduled a board meeting in Paris today, during which directors are expected to address the liquidity crisis and the appointment of Messier's successor. The top candidate is said to be Jean-Rene Fourtou, 63, vice chairman of the French-German drug company Aventis.

But there are more immediate problems. While Moody's dropped Vivendi's credit rating to junk-bond status, S&P sliced it to one notch above junk, with the explicit warning that the rating "would be lowered several notches" if the company does not secure "significant refinancing within the next few weeks."

Vivendi spokeswoman Anita Larsen said the company had no response to the credit agency reports and Vivendi stood by a previous statement that it has enough credit to meet its cash obligations for the year.

[Another Voice]

Mr. Show – work at the parks long enough and you’ll think that the “gum stories” are the easy ones. Any place the packs 50,000 humans inside for a day runs into problems. Disney is no better or worse than Universal.

The real difference between the two place is that WDW is for people who come to see “Disney”, Universal is for people who come to see “Orlando”.

Universal does not expect people to spend six days on their property – they want your hotel money and a couple days of your time. The rest is for Sea World and even maybe Disney. It’s the Las Vegas model of tourism: the place is the big draw, a single casino works on attracting as many of the people in town as it can and to hold them for as long as they can. By they all understand people are going to go out onto the Strip.

Disney works like a cruise ship – once you’re on property you don’t leave the boat even if you know how to swim. Disney wants your ENTIRE vacation – hotels, theme parks, meals, merchandising, parking, snacks, in-room movies, pay phone calls, the change you accidentally drop. Is it any wonder that all of the additions on property have been taken from success businesses off property? Think water parks, night club spots, mini-golf, shopping. Even Main Street has more t-shirt shops than International Drive does these days.

A lot of people are very happy with the 100% Disney model. But there is a large number of travelers that aren’t as enthralled as some around here. That’s the market Universal is going after. They know they will never cause WDW to empty of people and that’s why their park has a different feel and different attitude than the Mouse.

[HauntedMansionFan]

I'm just going to address a couple things from the article.

and street-soiling gum is conspicuously absent from stores I prefer it that way. I don't want to step in it or see it on the sidewalk.

"I don't know of another hotel where you're likely to be checked in by a person with a pierced lip," says Williams A hotel that I would rather stay away from. A pierced lip? Hard Rock Hotel or not, I think that is unprofessional.

it has morphed into a self-contained vacation universe with multiple parks, hotels, restaurants, nightclubs and even a full-service spa — in short, a mini-Disney World I honestly can't see spending more then two days at Universal, even if I was staying on-site. One day at each park, the evening times at CityWalk.

Universal, finally, is "a full-blown resort," à la Disney, says Tom Williams Not even close.

Disney does "a terrific job with the younger set, and I don't see any opportunity for us to ever try to take that segment. (But for teens), our experience, frankly, outdistances the competition I'm 24, so I believe I'm part of their key demographic. I wouldn't lose any sleep if I never went to IOA or USF again. The reason I do go to IOA on trips to Disney is because my partner and friends like to go.

"it's a very guest-friendly experience I don't find the staff at Universal very friendly.


Universal also has poured millions into white-knuckle attractions that ride enthusiasts say top anything at Disney, part of its strategy of targeting teens There lies Universal's fault. They will attract only a certain demographic, not an entire segment. The "targeting teen" part gets to me. Not putting anyone down, but I try to avoid snotty teens while I'm on vacation.

"You could come to Orlando for a week now and never set foot in Disney World." Or you spend a week in Disney World and never set foot anywhere else.

Just my take on things.

[HauntedMansionFan]

BTW, any new carnival attractions under construction at Disney? :-) Wow, even better than Primeval Whirl and the Aladdin's Magic Carpets! Or do you mean, better then Caro-Seuss-Sel, One Fish/Two Fish, Dr. Doom's Fear Fall, Storm Force Accelatron, The Flying Unicorn? Please.... Universal has its handfull of off the shelf rides also.

[disrailfan]

We (DW, Kids, myself) really have no plans to ever visit IOA or US. See the one thing is that US and IOA are primariliy Roller Coaster Parks. It's very similiar the reason why we will not got Sea World when we visit Orlando. See I like Roller Coasters but the wife and kids are not so eager to ride them. I can spend less money taking a weekend and going to Cedar Point to get my annual roller coster fix.

We will continue to be hooked on Disney and will continue to spend two vacations a year there.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
I don't find the staff at Universal very friendly.



They can be just as nice or just as surly as Disney employees or anyone for that matter.


There lies Universal's fault. They will attract only a certain demographic, not an entire segment. The "targeting teen" part gets to me. Not putting anyone down, but I try to avoid snotty teens while I'm on vacation.


Why is it a fault...the wanted to draw teens and they do...seems like a success to me. You may not have wanted to put anyone down..but seems like you did.

[EUROPA]

There are two kiddie coster as US and IOA and Two(Three if you split DD) Adult coasters at IOA. So the idea that they are Coaster parks is not true. Two of the best coasters in the country but only two still. You should give it a try with an open mind and I bet you will be surprised.

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by EUROPA
There are two kiddie coster as US and IOA and Two(Three if you split DD) Adult coasters at IOA. So the idea that they are Coaster parks is not true. Two of the best coasters in the country but only two still. You should give it a try with an open mind and I bet you will be surprised.

I did. We take DS since he's a tweener. Last year we did both parks in less then 8 hours. On our next trip we'll drop off DS and his buddy and go do something fun. And by the way.... the money stays with me at my villa at BWV. I understand the demographic but think US/IOA has hit it's saturation level.

The funny quote I heard was in Guest Services at IOA. Acouple was having a problem and as the walked out they both said "that would never happen at Disney!!"

Europa, if you don't believe I went to IOA, take a look at my pics.

[HauntedMansionFan]

They can be just as nice or just as surly as Disney employees or anyone for that matter. I have found in my experience and from hearing of experiences of others that Universal employees are worse the Disney's. I can honestly say that I've never seen a Universal CM greet me with a smile.

Why is it a fault...the wanted to draw teens and they do Because Universal has claimed they want a larger piece of the action, yet they shut themselves off from larger demographics.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Eeyore2U

Europa, if you don't believe I went to IOA, take a look at my pics.

For some reason I've found an admirer on the boards. Hate to tell you this but I could really care less if you went to IOA or Universal Studios. I have no reason to doubt that you went or if you had a good time or not. Sorry did you expect some sort of argument from me about you going? Sorry to disappoint you

So you didn't like it so what? Not everyone likes everything I'll admit that. We'll label you as a USF hatter or whatever fits. Sound good?

[HauntedMansionFan]

Well that was a little uncalled for.

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by EUROPA


For some reason I've found an admirer on the boards. Hate to tell you this but I could really care less if you went to IOA or Universal Studios. I have no reason to doubt that you went or if you had a good time or not. Sorry did you expect some sort of argument from me about you going? Sorry to disappoint you

So you didn't like it so what? Not everyone likes everything I'll admit that. We'll label you as a USF hatter or whatever fits. Sound good?

I see that you are the target demographic for US/IOA. ;)

And that would be hater, not hatter. I think the Mad Hatter hangs out by the Tea Cups.

[HauntedMansionFan]

I see that you are the target demographic for US/IOA. Lol.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan

Because Universal has claimed they want a larger piece of the action, yet they shut themselves off from larger demographics. [/B]


I'm sure they recruit the people who don't smile and treat guest correctly..you're probably right on that one.

And where does it say that they have not reached guest from other demographics? Cleary they don't market to Elderly or the lucrative 2-8 year old market...but when I'm in the parks there seems to be a wide range of ages enjoying the parks.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Eeyore2U


I see that you are the target demographic for US/IOA. ;)

And that would be hater, not hatter. I think the Mad Hatter hangs out by the Tea Cups.

Gasp a spelling error.

[HauntedMansionFan]

but when I'm in the parks there seems to be a wide range of ages enjoying the parks. I guess that you and I go at different times of the year then. I'm not going to debate the issue as there is no point. I could further state my opinion, but I'm not going to, as I'm sure it would get my in trouble.

[Eeyore2U]

Boy Europa,

You sure don't like me. Are you related to Doggy, that one doesn't like me either.

I think the key difference is that IOA is so targeted that it will become a Drop and Run park for teens. Why do I want to waste time walking around watching my kid get soaked. What happens as these teens grow and have kids that don't meet height requirements? WDW is a much more diverse setting.

Europa, did you like the pics by the way.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
I guess that you and I go at different times of the year then. I'm not going to debate the issue as there is no point. I could further state my opinion, but I'm not going to, as I'm sure it would get my in trouble.

I'm not debating what you experienced just the stereotyping . If you say that when you went there were only 15 year olds in the park then I guess I have to take your word for it. If you say when you went that every employee was all frowns then so be it. I don't think those reflect the demographics or the employees as a whole though at least in my experiences. So if I can agree to what you experienced can’t you belly up and agree with other people’s experiences, and try not to stereotype the customers or employees?

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by Eeyore2U

You sure don't like me. Are you related to Doggy, that one doesn't like me either.


I have no opinion of you..only noticed that you seem to have called my name out on quite a few post lately with some idea that we have some sort of cat and mouse game going on. Other then what you have written in the last few posts I could not tell you one issue that we've debated or agreed on. Sorry. I only speak on what people say I don't go hunting for them every time they post and disagree with what they say. Not that your doing that...the only thing I do remember is lately you seem to be calling my name.


WDW is a much more diverse setting.

A point nobody has disagreed with, and a pont I made earlier.


Europa, did you like the pics by the way


Sorry did not check them out :( I have my own pictures. :)

[HauntedMansionFan]

So if I can agree to what you experienced can’t you belly up and agree with other people’s experiences, I never said that I agreed or disagreed with other people's experiences, I merely stated my own experience. Nor did I ask or request that you agree with me, you did that on your own. I simply stated what I've experiences when I go there. That is all, nothing more, nothing less.

[patman]

Here is a vote for US/IOA, Disney is nice for kids and more "calm" people. MGM is my favorite Disney park by far. the shows there beat any shows that Universal offers. Magic Kingdom Is great for my 7 year old and my inlaws. The counter service food in Disney pales to Universal overall but Disney seems to be better than what they were 10 years ago when they could not make a hamburger. Epcot to me is a half day park. Animal Kingdom is nice and getting better. I been to disney 6 times and both WDW & Universal the last three times, I plan to go again next spring.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
I never said that I agreed or disagreed with other people's experiences, I merely stated my own experience. Nor did I ask or request that you agree with me, you did that on your own. I simply stated what I've experiences when I go there. That is all, nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe you misspoke then when you said you did not want to debate the issue and the only issues we were speaking about were the demographics and employee "rudeness". Debate tends to imply that you have an alternate viewpoint about my experiences at Universal.

[HauntedMansionFan]

Debate tends to imply that you have an alternate viewpoint about my experiences at Universal. No, debate tends to imply that based on information that I have, I would make an attempt to discredit your information. I did no such thing. You stated your experience, I stated mine. We may have had different experiences during our visits. That isn't a debate, expressing opinions. Now if I had stated that your opinion was wrong and gave a reason and some "facts", then that would be a debate. But I did no such thing. Let it go.

[Testtrack321]

Pull out your big guns, boys, this one's really ugly...

There is one part of Universal that Universal can't "fix", that is tradition. When people see "Spirit", 60% of the nation thinks "Disney", unless it props up "DREAMWORKS" after the title. I have seen it tons of times. Anastasia, even Shrek. The fact is that when people thing animation, they think Disney. Even if it is for Dreamworks. So people go to Disney, not Universal, for these licences. People don't know to put two and two together. People won't get that Dr. Suse has a land in Universal, only that their kids read Mickey and Dr. Suse, and that Mickey has a park in Orlando, and Dr. Suse isn't in sight.

The other is just how we grow up. Think, Universal gets Gen X, Gen X gets kids, kids want Disney, not Universal, too scarry. They go to Disney for 15 years. They go to Universal (now not scarry) for 3, then they go to collage, grow up, get kids, and it repeats. Universal is betting on the crowd that goes to parks for only a few years, not a decade like Disney. Plus, 14 year olds are more apt to get their parents money to spend at M rated movies and other places than at a theme park.

Universal is aiming for the short end of the stick, and they won't budge.

[JustBob]

Testtrack, you really nailed the demographic issue better than I've ever seen anyone do on this site - sure, we all stray from Disney, but then most of us have kids and decide we want the tried and true, the wholesome, the life affirming, etc. I'm not saying IOA isn't a great park - I personally can't wait to get there sometime, but when the world thinks of the ultimate theme park experience the name "Vivendi" doesn't pop into their heads, Disney does.:D

[DC7800]

Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
BTW the two new confirmed attractions at Disney World are both going to be top notch and also expect to hear more official news soon. [/B]

Hmm...I'm curious now too. Are we talking Mission Space and Philarmagic (both top notch, without a doubt) here, or something else?

Originally posted by roymccoy
Disney has nothing to worry about...just as long as they stick to the quality and vision of Walt Disney. If Disney sticks to it's strengths and continues to spend large amounts of money on the parks and keep the quailty up they have nothing to worry about. If they are going to play Universals game, than they very well might come out the loser in the end.
Roy

Roy,
Well said. You just effectively summed up the point of (seemingly) half the posts I make on this board. Based on its own current business practices, I'd argue Disney still has plenty to worry about, but these are problems of Disney's own creation (park hours, Dinorama, and so on...). Let Universal have all the rides it wants - I'll take the Disney "attraction" instead!

[lrodk]

This thread is focusing a bit too much on the Universal Studios aspect of things. I prefer that we not get in any deeper into the issue as it will steer us way off track for this forum. As such I've locked it up. If anyone wants to continue this discussion please pm me and I will transfer the appropriate responses to the Universal Board. In all honesty however, I believe that this one has exhausted itself in all constructive & informative aspects.