SAB at OKW

[manning]

The General manager of the Beach Club put out a teaser on the taped interview. I sure upper management approved it.

He indicated he would like to see a SAB type pool at OKW. He said it would have to be voted on by OKW members.

He also said most of the SAB pool hoppers came from OKW.

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by manning
He also said most of the SAB pool hoppers came from OKW. How could he possibly know that? The one time I hopped (from BWV), no one checked my ID.

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by manning
He indicated he would like to see a SAB type pool at OKW. He said it would have to be voted on by OKW members.
DVC members don't vote. That's not how DVC is set up.

Given that OKW is a fully sold resort, I don't see the business rationale for Disney to consider an "SAB type" pool.

[wdwsos]

Originally posted by Jimbo
How could he possibly know that? The one time I hopped (from BWV), no one checked my ID.

Even if your ID was checked, I'd bet they weren't deciphering the resort codes and keeping a list. I saw the interview and thought that was a bit of a strange comment myself.

Interesting interview. Maybe he didn't realize that OKW members didn't like the idea of a slide when surveyed a few years ago - imagine the reaction to a SAB type pool?

I liked that the GM gave credit to the OKW CM's for teaching his new employees all about "hospitality." He was highly complimentary of the OKW staff.

[manning]

Members can vote if the dues increase exceeds 15%. I don't think building a pool like SAB is cheap.

[Cris]

he just simplely said he would like to see that!! Only his thoughts, nothing more.

[DeeP]

NO WAY would OKW members ever vote for a dues increase in order to build a pool like SAB, let alone a 15% increase. Goodness gracious that would bring the current OKW dues up from $3.20 to $3.68!!!!!!!!!! For members owning 500 pts that would be an increase of $240.00 a year or $20.00 a month!!!!
As far as the comment on which DVC resort has the most pool hoppers to SAB or other DVC pools, maybe it is just from the CMs checking ids that state with a code the resort that the guest is staying at, probably when asked which DVC resort the CMs were seeing the most DVC members using their pool hopping priviledges from, the CMs said OKW. The CMs are very aware which number code represents which resort. The reason I know this is because a friend lost her room key at MGM, she went to guest services and thank goodness it was there since it also had room charging priviledges on it. The CM wanted to see ID and asked one question which was: which resort are you staying at. Once my friend showed her ID the CM said: "Well, I know it is you because of you photo ID and I can see you are staying at BWV from your resort key".
I know when I have met DVC members that are pool hopping at BWV and at SAB, all but once they were people staying at OKW. This is a small number of people that I met compared to the number of IDs a CMs checks in the course of a day for pool hopping. I am sure Disney is not just saying this to have something to say! This came up recently on a thread here on this board and OKW members said that they never pool hopped but the # of DVC members that read this board compared to the total # of DVC members that really exist is two totally different things.:rolleyes:

[manning]

I'm inclined to believe this was said as a test balloon to get a reaction. Could be wrong, Have been many times in the past. Coming from a big corporate back ground, I know there are things you don't say unless it is cleared.

[PamOKW]

Well, since OKW is also the largest DVC resort it wouldn't be a stretch to say the most members are from OKW (even if they hop while staying at BWV).

As Werner mentions -- they can pretty much get through (or block) anything they really want. Having a SAB pool at OKW might be a selling point for DI folks. Tell them they can "hop" over to that pool. :)

[PKS44]

When I first read this I thought manning was just trying to stir up trouble by making up such a ridiculous idea...then I listened to the interview and sure enough..he said it....I think it was pretty lame of an answer about capacity....SAB which was already very popular gets an added potential 1000 BCV guests and to fix that they are going to stop those pesky poolhoppers! How many people can that possibly be? 100? 200? Assuming only half of BCV guests choose to swim in SAB that is a net addition of 300 people to SAB on a given day...but hey they have built them their own pool (LOL!) I can see why they stopped poolhopping, but I don't think that is going to be enough during busy seasons to satisfy guests...I predict rope drop at SAB will become a competitive sport...

Paul:smooth:

[Mouse Ears]

One thing that would have helped slow the traffic at SAB would have been a bit nicer pool at the new BCVs. The pool looks nice, but not exciting enough to entice the family segment to stay nearby. That might have done more good than eliminating the pool-hopping OKW DVCers (at least on a daily basis).

:earsboy: M.E.

[vernon]

While I'd be massively suprised if Disney went to the expense of building a pool quite as extensive as SAB, I do think a "themed pool " is a possibility, either at OKW or at DI. I agree with Pam's comment that it could be used as a selling point for DI, although the biggest selling point would be to have it on DI as OKW is already "sold inventory"
I agree it's unlikely to be an "unautherised" comment so some type of corporate "softening up" does seem possible. Given the proximity of the two developments a "shared facility would be a possibility, that way the costs could be shared between the owners of the two different DVC developments, that idea makes the most sense to me.

I'll be keeping a close eye on future surveys that mention pool redevelopment LOL, I do think OKW could use another pool, or enlarging some of it's current pools.

[CarolA]

I don't that this was a "trail balloon". It was bought up by Pete first so unless Pete was prepped???

As for most of the pool hoppers coming from OKW, I would almost guantee that is true. First I have watched the cars coming and going and second doesn't OKW have the largest number of units.

[sgtpet]

OKW would benefit greatly to having an improved pool area. Maybe not a SAB but at least a slide.

[nydizfan]

I would love to see something done with the OKW pool. It needs to be upgraded/improved. Its kind of boring compared with the other resort pools......dave:cool: :jester:

[dianeschlicht]

I too think it was just a teaser. I wonder just how many people are disattisfied with the OKW pools? I NEVER even go to the main pool. I LOVE the quiet pools, although I steer clear of Turtle Pond because of the many kids that seem to hang out there.

[erikthewise]

Since when are DVC members expected to pay for capital costs through their annual dues?! This is not maintenance or upgrading or renovation we're talking about, this is a major new construction project. If Disney wants to build SABII at OKW, that is a capital project and they should just build it.

If members *want* to finance it through their annual dues, I suppose that would be OK, but that doesn't seem likely to happen. I cannot believe that legalities forbid other methods of financing.

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by erikthewise
If Disney wants to build SABII at OKW, that is a capital project and they should just build it.
The Walt Disney Company doesn't "want" to invest its own capital in OKW. It's a completed, sold-out timeshare resort. The cost of operating OKW until 2042 (including maintenance and enhancements) now comes out of the OKW operating and reserve budgets -- which are funded through OKW member dues.

[DeeP]

Well, since OKW is also the largest DVC resort it wouldn't be a stretch to say the most members are from OKW (even if they hop while staying at BWV).

If they were staying at BWV but were OKW members their room key would still be keyed with BWV code not OKW code since that would be the resort they were staying at, so therefore the CM checking IDs would assume they were pool hopping from BWV to SAB not from OKW.

[crisi]

They don't need to check everyone's ID in order to say most people came from OKW. They'd use statistical sampling methodology. Maybe check 30 people a day a couple times a month at different times of year. Get a good mix of days of week and times of day. You'd get a pretty accurate estimate - and unless it was close, be able to say "most" with a lot of certainty.

[PamOKW]

therefore the CM checking IDs would assume they were pool hopping from BWV to SAB not from OKW.

This would be true if they got their information from sampling at the pool. If they got it by polling members about their pool hopping they wouldn't have necessarily broken it down as to which resort they were staying at when they hop. We don't know where this info came from. They are safe in saying "more OKW members" pool hop since there are far more OKW members than members from any other DVC.

[erikthewise]

Horace,

I don't really want to argue but I don't think I got my point across.
My point is that construction of a major pool complex like SAB is patently not an operating budget item; it is capital construction.

In the case of BCV, a pool was built as part of the construction of the resort. While one may argue that members purchasing at BCV are paying for it with their purchase of points, they are definitely not paying for it with their annual dues!

In the case of OKW, the only difference is the timing of the (hypothetical) pool construction. The only effect of this difference is the understandably lessened motivation for Disney to pay for it. It would still be capital construction.

[DeeP]

They are safe in saying "more OKW members" pool hop since there are far more OKW members than members from any other DVC.
Just curious....how do you find out how many members there are at each DVC resort? Does it go by the number of units so if a DVC resort has 359 units for example they would somehow figure how many memberships they could have based on the number of units at the resort? But what about the many members with several contracts at the same resort?

[spruce]

Since OKW is the largest resort. it makes sense that the most pool hoppers came from OKW. Especially if you believe what some say that OKW has lousy pools. I say go try an all-star pool if you want to see a lousy pool. And remember, Nobody pool hops to SAB anymore. Just pool crashers.....spruce

[DeeP]

Especially if you believe what some say that OKW has lousy pools. I say go try an all-star pool if you want to see a lousy pool.
Why do you consider the pools at the All Stars lousy? They are larger than OKW pools, are immaculately clean as are OKW pools, have more life guards than OKW pools, have more theming than the OKW pools and do not have a pool slide but nor do OKW pools. The All Star pools actually have a few more things going for them vs the OKW pools. I certainly do not consider the OKW pools lousy (not anything wonderful but not lousy) but then neither are the All Star pools.

[Dean]

If it were to be built at OKW, it will come out of our dues. Your talking initial capital outlay then ongoing maint and lifeguards. They could probably do this by a modest increase of points and then use of reserves for a year or 2. The increase of points would then be used to build up the reserves. I doubt they'd do any type of assessment for this project. Personally, I can't see it happening unless there were a major uproar from the members there.

[spruce]

For a pool hopping experience, the all-star pools don't get it for me. I'd much rather pool hop to Carribean Beach, PO, poly or WL. The themeing is by far superior. The OKW pools are great in that I parked out in front of my spacious golf course view unit and walked around the building to get to the pool instead of driving to the all-stars to take a dip. I guess if I wanted the all-star experience I wouldn't need to own points at OKW, BWV and BCV.
DVC doesn't even give us a choice to experience the all-stars in the Disney collection. I guess they figure that's trading down too far..........
But back to the topic. I don't think DVC will ever build an SAB type pool at OKW. If they did, could you imagine the my resort is better then your resort threads here on the dis? That'd be good for plenty more comic relief here for our entertainment........spruce

[DeeP]

You did not say anything about pool hopping. You said if you want to see a lousy pool go to the All Star resort pools. I was just comparing pools to pools and do not see how the All Star pools can be considered lousy when compared to the OKW pools. I would venture to say just as many people pool hop to OKW pools as they do to the All Star pools. 0=0

[DeeP]

I don't think DVC will ever build an SAB type pool at OKW. If they did, could you imagine the my resort is better then your resort threads here on the dis?
This still would not put OKW in a superior location like BCV, BWV or WLV are. :D

[AZKathy]

Here we go again!:)

[Cris]

Originally posted by AZKathy
Here we go again!:)

haha..you know it!!!;)

[spruce]

You did not say anything about pool hopping
Sure I did,
It makes sense that most pool hoppers come from OKW
Then I implied that some think OKWers pool hop to get away from what some consider are substandard DVC pools. I then said,
go try an all-star pool . The only way to do that is to stay at the all-stars, pool hop as permitted by DVC or pool crash.
Semantics and no value to DVC owners or future owners is what this post is about. I'm tired of seeing this stuff on the boards and I appologize for doing it and allowing myself to get sucked in. This isn't the topic....spruce

[DeeP]

Then I implied that some think OKWers pool hop to get away from what some consider are substandard DVC pools. I then said,
You said if you if you want to see a lousy pool try the All Stars, I was just asking how you can consider the All Star pools lousy? What you implied was if you think OKW pools are lousy you should go to the All Star pools to see a really lousy pool. And in reality the All Star pools have a few more things going for them than the OKW pools do.
The topic of this thread was the mgr from BCV stating that most of the DVC pool hoppers come from OKW and that maybe a pool similiar to SAB would be built at OKW.
To pool hop from OKW to another pool is a chore, I know I have done it and obviously so have many other guests. There must be a reason for people to go the extra mile to pool hop from OKW. There must also be a reason that the pools at OKW have continually come up over and over again, in that. many DVC members are not satisfied with the pools. It has even been put to a vote but the OKW members do not want their dues to go up for anything. However the dues at OKW are steadily rising anyway with no improvements to the pools, but Disney is still raising the dues.
I do not think this can all be fluffed off as OKW having more members so therefore there are more pool hoppers, again there is a reason guests are pool hopping to a larger degree from one DVC resort compared to the others. It is too much of a real issue both on the discussion boards (and not just this board) and in Disney's opinion for it to be just that.
I still would like to know how anyone knows that OKW has so many more members than the other DVC resorts just because it has more units but yet also seems to also have the largest amount of members with multiple contracts. So therefore are you counting # of members or # of contracts? However given that logic then a combination of all the other DVC resorts members would be much greater than the number of OKW members and yet OKW still has the most pool hoppers.
I personally couldn't care less if DVC eliminates pool hopping all together. As someone posted in another thread; is it really fair for members at BCV, BWV & WLV to pay higher dues to maintain the pools, lifeguards, etc so that members at other DVC resorts can reap all the benefits and not pay the piper???

[Richyams]

I agree that there are some people that find that clown themed pool at BWV is so apealling that they don't mind dealing with the tiny units, the dramatically higher dues and the high point schedule.

[KNWVIKING]

We've all been thru the OKW pool debate and we all have our unchanging opinions. This is what I would like to see:

1) An artist rendition of a themed pool.

2) Costs. Present to me an absolute cost per point increase that includes lifeguards.

3) A full membership,non-binding vote followed by discussion, negotiation,options,etc.

4) Binding membership vote that would require a 2 thirds majority.

Personally I don't see this happening anytime in the next 10-20 years. However,as we approach 2042 or perhaps DVC II, OKW will need to be resold. An SAB II type pool would be a great incentive to purchase OKW over a resort that has "location,location,location" to offer.

I also believe the BC GM's statement was a calculated statement intended to initiate just this type of discussion, (which we all know WDW monitors). I also think that WDW has the statistics to backup the claim that OKW'ers pool hop more.WDW is just too "politically correct" to just throw an unsupported claim like that out there.

[PKS44]

Originally posted by DeeP
(snip)... is it really fair for members at BCV, BWV & WLV to pay higher dues to maintain the pools, lifeguards, etc so that members at other DVC resorts can reap all the benefits and not pay the piper???

If poolhopping were completely eliminated you would still have to pay to maintain the pool at the same level. Poolhopping adds ALMOST nothing to the cost of basic maintenance...maybe a few more towels need to be laundered than would otherwise be used, but how much can that be?

I love poolhopping. If I owned at OKW I would want a better pool. When I stayed at OKW, I wished the pool were better....But this $$$ argument doesn't hold water.

Paul

[spruce]

If you don't own at OKW, why do you care what facilities OKW has? Your dues at BW would still be what it is if pool hopping was not a perk. If I do a post search under your user name, many of your posts are related to or somehow express how much better BW is compared to OKW. Of course this is your opinion. I just don't understand why contraversy(sp) and debate appears to be the main thing you bring to these boards. Your posts have no value to me and I deceided months ago to quit reading them. Alas though, I have continued to read them but no more.
I did get the survey reguarding making a better pool at OKW. I am against a better pool at OKW. It will change the vacation atmosphere at OKW if an attraction type pool is installed. I am not interested in OKW changing from a laid back place to stay into an attraction. My choice has nothing to do with dues costs which so often is the rallying cry why we OKW owners are so against a better pool. (What is a better pool anyhow?) Who sets that criteria?
I did add-on to BW to get that coveted location and because OKW was sold out at that time(commadore bldg was still up), but I prefer the style of resort at OKW then BW. I did an add-on at BC to be able to spend a day a trip at BC because we enjoy SAB not for the location. We also enjoy the pools at OKW but do not like the BW main pool at all.
I tried to PM this because this stuff doesn't belong on the board but it was too long. I have tried not to bash you but really want to know why you choose to be so negative with your posts and seem to just want to stir things up. Don't think I haven't asked others on the board this same question, because I have.
As I have said many times, all the DVC resorts are top-notch world class destinations. 4 of them now are at WDW.....my God what's the problem.....we own resorts at WDW, what could be better?.......spruce

Moderator....feel free to deleate parts or all of this post if I crossed the line.

[PamOKW]

I am against a better pool at OKW

I don't think you mean to say "better". Like you, I am perfectly happy with the pools at OKW. In fact, I love the pool at Old Turtle Pond. I used to keep a photo of it on my office wall (along with other OKW "scenes").

As KNWVIKING lays out, if DVC wants to propose some changes to the pools at OKW I would be open to considering them. I wouldn't want to see a slide just stuck on to the exisiting pools. If it were to be a new concept, I'd think about it.

While they may have plans for a more elaborate pool, it's always been my understanding that SAB is a nightmare to maintain. I would hope they would not include the parts that "don't work" in any pool built at a DVC resort.

While OKW is sold-out, it is in Disney's interest to maintain the resort up to Disney standards. They still rent rooms and include it in their advertising. The same is true of all the DVC resorts --- they still have the Disney name and are still rented as Disney resorts.

Spruce -- Like you, I get very tired of those who look for the opening to stick in their pro-one resort/anti-other resort. We know the ones we are talking about. A recent thread indicates they think it's fun and others said they also "enjoy" reading the smart remarks. I'm with you. It's getting very old. I guess the thing to do is stop reading the threads as soon as they begin to head down the same old "your rooms are small/my pool is better" road. ;)

[Poohjan]

We have owned at OKW for seven years, and I have never been unhappy with the OKW pools. We like to stay in the Turtle Pond area, and most of the time I do not even bother going to the main pool. I like the quiet relaxed atmosphere in the pools. I have pool hopped to stormalong bay may two or three times, and never to the Boardwalk. We stayed BW once for a short stay and I did not find it relaxing in the clown pool. I used the quiet pool. My kids never complained, the liked the water parks, and actually, one of their favorites was the pool at the CBR.

In July we are staying at OKW for a week, and YBV for a week, and I will be happy at both places. I really don't see a need for a themed pool at OKW, and could handle the end of pool hopping if it happened because I do it so rarely anyways.

I think we are all way too spoiled by the luxuries DVC provides us and think we need EVERYTHING - EVERYWHERE and at all times. I love the variety available with DVC in accomodations, atmosphere, and locations. DVC is the best thing we have every done.

Jan

[Dean]

There are more members at OKW but the points is that there are more members staying at any one time due to the higher number of units. I'm sure there are also more that PH due to the lack of themed pools at OKW as well as the proximity to 2 of the parks for an afternoon break. Still, I suspect the number is lower than it could be due to the hassle factor among other issues.

As for costs for the item, when they did the survey a couple of years ago, they did provide a cost per point for the improvements and a separate cost per point for the lifeguards and the like. I think there were 5000 members polled overall and the results were pretty one sided. I'm sure someone has it handy but I can go back and look later today if needed, seems it was in the fall 2000 VM if memory serves.

As for PH future, I suspect it's on the way out. I don't use it but would hate to see it go both because it's losing one option as well as many of my fellow members enjoy it. As for the bickering, it is getting tiring. You guys haven't figured out that Rich is sitting there laughing every time this hits and then laughs even harder when his baiting produces a negative response. Now he gets to laugh without even posting. All of the DVC resorts are great in their own way. ALL could be improved in one way or another. NONE of them are perfect. Different people have different views. I like OKW best but like all of them including HH even though I feel there are even better choices available to me in HH. It's like the saying "a bad day on vacation is better than a good day at work". While it's not totally accurate, it does portray the idea.

[CaptainMidnight]

I would like to see an SAB II or better pool at the new DVC resort with enough capacity to allow a great deal of pool hopping for whomever DVC members would like to use it. It would be a nice draw to the new resort, and close enough to OKW that should they choose to use it, perhaps a nice boat ride would take them right to it.

It would also be great with me if the SAB at BC was expanded with additional pool area and water activites and pool hopping for all DVC members reinstated there, and while we're at it, pool hopping allowed at the Animal Kingdom Resort.

It would also be fine with me that a special pool be built just for local DVC members to be able to use for a small fee, without having to use points at a DVC resort. Maybe you could use points, and get two pool visits per point when you wanted to use just drop by WDW and use the pool along with your annual pass visit. I'm not familiar, does entrance to the waterparks come with an annual pass?

I hear the BCV pool isn't terrible, and possibly twice as big as the BWV quiet pool. That should help provide a nice safety value to crowding at SAB, as well as allow some wonderful swimming at those very, very special times at night (after SAB will be closed). I'm very grateful that DVC pools are open 24 hours (as long as your quiet) i have some very special memories of swimming at 1:00am with my two year old son at BWV. I look forward to many more of those.

[KNWVIKING]

... I'm not sure who your refering to -maybe me??- but I can see where some BWV owners-especially now that SAB is off limits- would like to see OKW get a "better" pool. Apperently nobody pool hops to OKW but OKW'ers make up the largest pool hopping group, (lets just assume this assumption is correct). Is it fair to BWV guests to have a crowded pool,no chairs,long slide line,etc because 35% of OKW guests,(according to the unofficial survey, who would like a slide at OKW are hopping to BWV. The beauty of pool hopping was that it gave us a chance to experience other pools. Right now BCV owners have the greatest advantage. They get SAB and all the others. OKW gets everybody except SAB. Whats BWV or VWL get- each other and OKW,which nobody hops to anyway. So maybe BWV owners feel it's only fair that OKW upgrade to something they would like to try or at least keep OKW guests at home.

BTW, my home is OKW,added at VWL and BCV.

[PamOKW]

I don't think that many OKW folks do/will hop to BWV. I don't think they even hopped to SAB all that much. It's just too much of a hassle. The slide is the main attraction at BWV. It doesn't have the bells & whistles of SAB. If folks want a slide, they can hop to many other pools around WDW. It is easy to walk over from BWV to SAB and I think that's where the greatest actual number of users came from.

I think BWV should not be too concerned until you see what happens. Recently, a neighboring town spent two years worrying about the horrific impact opening their beaches to the public would create. Guess what? There has been virtually no impact. A lot of grief for nothing. The same will probably be true of the pool hopping concern.

Dean -- I forget the actual survey results. Surprisingly, the informal survey we did here came out with similar results that most folks don't feel that strongly about changing the OKW pools.

[PKS44]

I'm not sure who spruce is upset with, could be me...but I have always felt this OKW "should" do this or "should" do that is counterproductive and ultimately leads to the end of poolhopping faster. I will say that anyone who stays or will stay at OKW can have an opinion on the pool, but the only opinions that should count are the owners. Spruce summarizes what that opinion is very well...They like it the way it is...the changes some would prefer would alter the resort in a negative way.

I will say for the umpteenth time of reading that sort of opinion that I still don't get it...I understand the desire to preserve the OKW atmosphere, I just don't get how changing one acre of it from what is essentially a Quiet pool into a pool with some interactive features will transform the other hundreds of acres of the property in any way whatsoever. But I don't have to stay there and I don't have to get it. No one, even an OKW owner, has to stay there. On July 4th it is worth celebrating that DVC means freedom, too! Cool.

Paul

[Regina]

PLEASE, LET'S NOT TURN EVERY TOPIC INTO A "MY POOL/RESORT IS BETTER THAN YOUR'S" ARGUMENT.

Come on folks, it's time to move on.

[fkj2]

We all know DVC has continually evolved the various resorts as they have been built, gleaning info on members' uses and desires as time goes by. I'm not necessarily opposed to investigating a themed pool that may be constructed at OKW. I personally don't swim that often while there (I prefer an afternoon nap on my break from the parks) but I can see the attraction having used SA B once. It is an inconveience to get over there though and frankly, I think it's too crowded to enjoy, knowing it's the primary pool for BCV and YC/BC.

While it may cost those of us OKWers a few extra $$$, it would be an investment, perhaps one of questionable value unless it could benefit owners who might become interested in selling their points at some time in the future and that may help attract a buyer.

[nydizfan]

I want a new pool.... maybe a SAB equivolent..thats all ... thanks...dave:cool: :cool: :cool:

[DeeP]

I'm not sure who your refering to -maybe me??- but I can see where
I'm not sure who spruce is upset with, could be me...but I have always
I am sure Spruce is referring to me. How he was able to do a search when this function is disabled is quite a feat in itself though! :)
In the comments I made on this thread I never said BWV pool was better than OKW pool. I may think that but I did not post that. I was just responding to the orginal thread regarding whether a pool similiar to SAB would be built at OKW.
I certainly have read many, many more posts from certain posters on these boards who have a long standing history of "stirring things up" much more than I do. I have merely just pointed out all of BWV excellent qualities when it has been unjustly attacked with a bunch of repetitive untruths. I have never started a DVC resort war, I have merely responded to insulting, untrue statements made by others.
There are many posts that hold no value to some and great value to others, the great thing about "discussion" boards is if you do not want to read what someone else is contributing to the "discussion" just skip it. Viola--simple.
I have been contacted by quite a few posters on this board in regards to how they disliked how others constantly "stir things up" and were glad I posted a rebuttal and the truth to the repetitive untruths that we see over and over again. I never had to ask others for their feelings, they voluntarily contacted me.

Moderator....feel free to deleate parts or all of this post if I crossed the line.

[AnnK]

Wow, I can't believe the GM at BC would want to change the pool at OKW. What is he thinking, wouldn't that change the laid back atmosphere of the resort? I just don't think the bunnies would stand for it!!!!:jester:
Just kidding! Continue on with your resort war.......:D

[spruce]

I am sure Spruce is referring to me. How he was able to do a search when this function is disabled is quite a feat in itself though!

I just used the search function and it seems to be working.

I apologize for going off topic and hope no one was offended. This back and forth is counterproductive. I'll not play anymore.

For those new here, remember these boards are filled with great information and many opinions, I've been coming here for 4 years and enjoy my time spent here. I've learned a lot and hopefully I've helped a lot. Which is the point of these boards I think. I've also taken what I could use and left the rest. Live and let live......spruce

[Disney Adventurer]

OK I'll jump in on this one. I'm not totally familiar with how the funding and capital expenditures go at a DVC resort but I'm pretty sure that rooms that are not spoken for through points are rented out through central reservations. Someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong (heck what am I thinking, if I'm wrong I'm sure more than one will jump in). So OKW would have an occupancy rate just as any resort. Even though it is fully funded and completely sold, if the occupancy rate is only (making up a number here) 70%. That means Disney is missing out on renting 30% of the rooms. This is hard, cold cash in there pocket. Is it possible Disney could be looking to change the pool (not saying for better or worse) to increase the occupancy rate and thus increase profits. Even if Disney funded the project themselves, it may pay for itself through a higher occupancy rate. I'm just trying to look at this through Disney's eyes. Let's face it, Disney is in business to make money, so there will have to be a motivating factor for Disney to even consider such an undertaking.

[DeeP]

Good to see the search function back up and running, it has been giving an error message for at least the past 2 days stating that the search function was disabled by the administrator. I only realized this when I read someone say they did a search on my posts and I then tried to do a search on my posts and received this message. :confused:

[erikthewise]

A good point. However one might argue that increased occupancy at OKW would come almost entirely at the expense of other Disney resorts, and mostly from other DVC resorts.

A central question is: why would BCV GM be raising this issue unless Disney wants an improved pool at OKW? It could be he was just expressing his personal opinion about what would happen in the best of all possible worlds. I don't think that's as impossible as some seem to. But it's more interesting to speculate (as others have) that this is something that WDW, Inc would like to see happen.

If they want it a lot, they ought to be willing to make the investment. If they just want it a little, they would no doubt be willing to sit on their hands and see if OKW members will pay for it. Perhaps not likely, but worth a roll of the dice.

[PamOKW]

DisneyAdventurer -- I'm not sure either of the specifics of how it would work, but I agree that it would be in Disney's interest to be sure that all DVC's are maintained at the same level as other WDW resorts. Depending upon the desire for a pool change they might share the funding of the pool or spread its cost out over a very long period of time. I don't think they would do something adamantly opposed by the members but they would take an opening if they wanted something to happen.

[DeeP]

A good point. However one might argue that increased occupancy at OKW would come almost entirely at the expense of other Disney resorts, and mostly from other DVC resorts.
If a pool comparable to SAB was built at OKW and pool hopping was allowed for members/guests staying at the other DVC resorts then this would not neccesarily be an increased occupancy at OKW at the expense of the other DVC resorts. Guests would still be able to stay at other DVC resorts and pool hop to the new SAB like pool at OKW. It would probably increase occupancy at OKW but most likely this would not be at the expense of the other DVC resorts, it might actually help with getting reservations at some of the other DVC resorts that are hard to get into.
No one knows if this will even happen and if it does no word has been said about whether OKW members or Disney would pay for this type of pool. Maybe Disney intends to fund the building of the pool and then the maintenence of the pool and the cost of lifeguards etc., would be funded by OKW dues. Who knows?? This should be interesting to see what happens and if such a pool does get built it will just be another benefit for all DVC members!!!:)

[JSjoquist]

Stay with me on this one. Some of you may think I'm nuts, but this makes sense to me, and in my little world, thats all that matters anyway, right ??

I think it will be interesting to see what comes of "River Country". Isn't it currently closed?? This would drive those people to other pools, leading to over crowding. Could this be another reason why SAB has been restricted to only Yacht & Beach Club and BCV use for now??

One of the things I have heard is that River Country will re-open as a themed pool for the camp ground instead of a dedicated water park. This would eliminate a lot of the people who "forget" the pool hop policy, and draw more people to that pool. Not to mention how many DVC members would go to a new & improved River Country if it is a resort pool vs a water park.

That would be a perfect time to move on to improving/expanding the OKW pool. That would give a whole lot of people more choices in which pool to go to, and MAY evenly distribute pool attendance levels to a point where Disney feels they can drop the SAB restrictions.

I know I'm not addressing the financing end of this project, I just haven't seen anyone talking about this from a "use" side. Many people feel SAB is the best themed pool on the property. More quality themed pools remove the problems they have had with crowds at SAB and give more options to those people wanting to go swimming that day at something more than a regular pool.

Just another side of this discussion, and yes, I do tend to see the glass half full.

[manning]

Maybe Dean can help out on this. I believe DVC holds a 3% interest in each villa. They rent those out on a cash basis. I don't know if they keep that for themselves or what.

The other 97% is owned by the membership and I think any unused inventory is rented out on a cash basis and the money is put into the operation of the villas. This helps keep the dues down. Per the charter it is a nonprofit organization. If there is a contractual agreement with Disney to charge a fee for handling the cash reservations, I don't know.

[Dean]

I've seen various numbers thrown around for DVC ownership from 2-4% but believe 4% is the targer number DVC has aimed at for them to own. Remember that DVC does not get that money if rented and actually doesn't even get dues paid on those points. How much is rented vs used for emergencies, maint and the like; I don't really know. Personally, I can't see this happening but would like to.

[Caskbill]

Since OKW is 100% sold, that means that theoretically it will always be at capacity. Units available for rent then only include the (estimated) 4% that DVC owns themselves, and all units made available because members used their points somewhere else outside of DVC resorts. These would include Disney Cruise Lines, Concierge collection, etc.

However, the monies collected on rental of those available units is not available to DVC to do with as they please. If a member uses his points to take a cruise, DVC then needs to rent the DVC unit made available and use that money to pay for the cruise. That money does not become available for other items, such as making changes to a pool.

Earlier it was posted that perhaps OKW averaged 70% DVC occupancy. I don't have any figures, but this doesn't seem logical. If all the units are sold, and on average 30% are not used then that would mean the average member is spending 30% of their points outside of DVC, or simply losing them. I don't think this is happening. In 9 years of membership I have only spent points outside of DVC once. (Paris). So just to cover my average it would mean someone else has to spend 60% of their annual points outside of DVC.

Remember using points at a different DVC resort is not the same. Using OKW points at BCV or BWV etc doesn't take those points out of the system and make the OKW unit available for rental. The BWV or BCV owner still has those points and could use them at OKW, or HH, or VB etc. So rental income only becomes available when members (at whatever home resort) use points outside the system entirely. But that income as stated does not become available to DVC but must cover the costs associated with the use of those points by the member.

Therefore any pool changes (I refuse to call it improvements) would have to come at a cost to members. As for myself, I will never vote for any changes. If you really feel OKW needs a slide, then please sell your OKW points and go buy BCV points, or BWV points. You knew what OKW was when you purchased there at the time.

Personally I'd be happier if DVC just suspended all pool hopping entirely. I wonder how many members would NOT have purchased if pool hopping was never a perk in the first place. I doubt that that single perk was a make or break decision for purchasing DVC.

[PamOKW]

I wonder how many members would NOT have purchased if pool hopping was never a perk in the first place.[/B]

I didn't even know it was. I'm not sure if it had started in 1993 or not. I know I read about it in a VM and thought it was a neat perk....one I have yet to use.

[BenStone]

Goodness gracious that would bring the current OKW dues up from $3.20 to $3.68!!!!!!!!!! For members owning 500 pts that would be an increase of $240.00 a year I say pony up. Our dues would still be cheaper than everyone else and we'd have the newest pool to go along with the biggest rooms! Everyone knows OKW has the room on site to do it, unlike all of the other more conveniently located pigeon holes.

BenStone

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Caskbill
Personally I'd be happier if DVC just suspended all pool hopping entirely.

:confused: Why? How would that improve your happiness? I understand it is something you don't use, but how would taking poolhopping away from others who do like to poolhop make a nonpoolhopper happier? I don't see how poolhopping affects non-poolhoppers at OKW in the least. (I am not trying to be nasty, I just really don't understand this statement...and I am surprised because Caskbill's post are generally so helpful...)

Paul

[PamOKW]

For members owning 500 pts that would be an increase of $240.00 a year

And why would I want to pay $240 a year for something I don't want ?

I'm also glad to see folks are so quick to spend other people's money. We see people complaining about leaving $1 for the maid at DVC but some consider asking OKW members to swallow a 15% dues increase "no big deal". I'd like to see what would be posted on these boards if a dues increase along those lines appeared in all DVC bills in December?

As I said, I would not be adverse to considering a change to the pools. But, I would want it to be something I see as a positive. Sticking a slide on the current pools is not a positive. Building a new pool with zero-entry, water current feature and some entertainment feature might be worth considering if it could be done at a reasonable increase.

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by PamOKW
..(snip)...As I said, I would not be adverse to considering a change to the pools. But, I would want it to be something I see as a positive. Sticking a slide on the current pools is not a positive. Building a new pool with zero-entry, water current feature and some entertainment feature might be worth considering if it could be done at a reasonable increase.

Just curious, what would you consider a reasonable increase for what you describe above?

[Werner Weiss]

Beyond the simple issue of cost, there'e another problem with making a significant change to the OKW feature pool.

Whatever some people like, some other people won't like -- whether that's a water slide, zero depth entry, a wave pool, a rope swing, you name it... For some people, such changes would ruin the pool. And even people who want changes won't agree on what changes are good and what changes are bad. Zero depth entry is great for little kids, but awful for swimmers. A water slide is great for those who enjoy slides, but may actually reduce the appeal of the pool for those don't use the slide.

If OKW were a regular resort hotel, that wouldn't be a problem. Nobody has to come back year after year. You can stay someplace else if you no longer like the pool -- or if you no longer like any other aspect of the resort.

But OKW is a timeshare. People bought into OKW with with expectation of a consistant, high-quality experience until 2042 -- and with the expectation that the management company (Disney) will run the resort efficiently to minimize any increases in annual fees.

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by Werner Weiss
People bought into OKW with with expectation of a consistant, high-quality experience until 2042 -- and with the expectation that the management company (Disney) will run the resort efficiently to minimize any increases in annual fees.

This is exactly what I expect. I agree that any change to the pool would never please everyone. At the time I purchased, there was what I considered to be two very beautiful pool areas and another "plainer" pool The South Point pool was added later when that area was built. My thoughts about the pool were just in line with some of the changes Disney has made to other pools lately (GF/Poly). I would leave it up to their expertise to suggest changes that would be within the same lines of what we have....upgrading to stay with the times. I don't necessarily expect the pools to be exactly as they are in 2042 -- heck, how long does a pool last? I would have preferred to pay $.01-.02 more per year in dues and not have the towel and soap restrictions put into place or the Trash & Tidy reduced to Trash & Towel. My use of a slide would be zero. If it contributes to an overall remake/beautification of the pool area, I'd consider it a reasonable expense. I wouldn't want to see a SAB re-created at OKW. It just wouldn't fit in. However, something more along the lines of Vero's pool might fit in. Replace the bucket sand area with a wet play area and mini-golf....that type of change.

Carol, I couldn't say what I would be willing to pay because I have not seen any plan lately from DVC. If they were to ask do I want to pay $.02 or $2.00 to add a slide and lifeguard, my answer would still be no. I don't want to see a slide just stuck onto the existing pool. If they could present a new concept that might have a one-time fee and/or a cost spread out over many years plus only a minimal (roughly $.03-.09) per year for lifeguards and upkeep that might be worth considering.

Rich doesn't like the small rooms and long walks (his thoughts) at BWV so he rarely stays there. He doesn't ask the BWV members to contribute more to build additional elevators and to knock out a few walls and make the units bigger. If the pool at OKW is unsatisfactory to you, don't stay there. Don't disparage OKW members as cheap. For many of us it isn't about the money. It is about the way we like it (believe it or not).

[AZKathy]

Originally posted by PamOKW


Don't disparage OKW members as cheap. For many of us it isn't about the money. It is about the way we like it (believe it or not).

Good point!!!!!:) :) :)

[AnnK]

I have tried to refrain from posting to this because it looks like the same old resort wars stuff, but I do want to address a few remarks

quote
"Rich doesn't like the small rooms and long walks (his thoughts) at BWV so he rarely stays there. He doesn't ask the BWV members to contribute more to build additional elevators and to knock out a few walls and make the units bigger. "

True, but he does remind us of the "tiny" rooms, higher dues and higher points.
Which is why many BWV owers are left to wonder if cheaper dues, and points are the only reason a person would own there.

Quote
"If the pool at OKW is unsatisfactory to you, don't stay there. Don't disparage OKW members as cheap. For many of us it isn't about the money. It is about the way we like it (believe it or not)."

I have seen this posted and that is NOT the point. I believe it was the GM at BCV is the one suggesting that an SAB like pool be built at OKW, NOT the BWV owners. He certainly has his reasons for making the suggestion and we can only speculate a to what they may be. I think that maybe the pool hopping days are numbered and DVC wants to offer similar pools to ALL DVC members staying at ANY DVC resort.
I also OWN at OKW as well as BWV and I would like to see the pool at OKW improved. I know there are other OKW members who feel the same way. I know they did a survey but that was a few years ago, people who purchased resales might be more interested in a themed pool.
It doesn't matter much to me. I leave the decision to DVC.

[PamOKW]

It's agreed that the original discussion started with the SAB reference from the chat/video. However, it soon started to turn to talk of why OKW members wouldn't pay $.02 more in dues to pay for the pool. So far, there has not been any comment, survey or anything else from DVC mentioning a major re-do of the pools. If they want to present something, I'd give it consideration.

As one poster commented -- he would like to see changes but he knows that it is really a decision for DVC and the OKW members. And that's really what it boils down to.

[PamOKW]

Going back to the original mention of building a SAB II at OKW --

The more I think about it, the more problems I see. The security would have to be extremely tight. If it weren't, the number of Orlando-area locals, offsiters, etc., who would come to OKW, park for free, take the bus to the parks and then come back and enjoy SAB would be overwhelming. Just look at the problems the orignal SAB has had with pool crashers. We've already had reports of folks using OKW as their "swim club"...imagine how happy they'd be to have a free water park. ;)

An update to the pools that is in keeping with the resort might be nice....a la Vero's pool. I wouldn't want a SAB.

[DeeP]

AnnK,
I agree with what you said 100%.

Also, I would like to add: the GM at BCV not only stated they are considering adding a pool comparable to SAB at OKW but he also stated OKW has the most pool hoppers. I tried to address this 4 pages ago in this thread but people see what they want to see, but even though the OKW members that read the DIS(which is a small minority compared to the total # of OKW members) state they like the pool the way it is, do not force other people to spend money, etc there must still be a lot of OKW members pool hopping for whatever reason for the GM at BCV to have made this statement.

As for the statement made regarding RY, what does that have to do with anything???? How is that revelant to this thread? If he was the GM at OKW, yes maybe his opionion would be worth consideration, but really who cares where he stays, what he says, etc. It has no bearing on the orginal topic which was what the GM at BCV stated in regards to a pool being built at OKW and the fact that the majority of pool hoppers are OKW members.

In regards to the statement if you don't like OKW don't stay there, many DVC members that own at other resorts do try to avoid staying there and will only take a reservation at OKW as a last resort. Unfortunately because the other DVC resorts book up so fast and there is usually always availabilty at OKW sometimes you either have to change your trip plans (which for some people is not possible) or take a room at OKW.

I certainly hope I do not get jumped all over for this post or have people do searches of my past posts to try and label me as stirring up trouble. I have done nothing but address statements that were made in a previous post.

[CaptainMidnight]

Perhaps this thread has run its course.

[PamOKW]

Perhaps this thread has run its course

I think you're right. :) At least I'll back out and let others continue the discussion if they like.

Just to sum up IMHO -- I very much enjoy OKW as it is. If DVC would like to present a new pool that would enhance my vacation experience, I would be glad to give it consideration. If they want to stick a slide on the existing pool, I'm oppossed. If they want to build a "mini-water park" a la SAB, I'm very much concerned about the other problems it woud create and the possibility it would detract from the current atmosphere. I look forward to being pleasantly surprised by Disney Imagineering developing something that appeals to the majority. :)

[Cris]

hey guys I think a few of you need to walk away from this thread, and relax a little.

[KNWVIKING]

... As a member of the "improved" pool delegation I will offer this "con" so to speak against it: OKW does not have a parking lot, at least not one any where near a pool. If an SAB type facility were built and everybody decided to hop to OKW, I don't want them parking in front of my studio ! I think a major refurb should be done at the main pool to include at least a VB pirate ship type area for the kids,(that should at least reduce the Marco-Polo noise).I like a slide but don't need one but I also look at my OKW ownership as a business investment sometimes and need to be concerned about it's resale value. At present I have no intentions or need to sell,but no one knows what the future holds. I think a- lets say- more interactive pool area would increase its value.

I think it would be great if DVD built an SAB at DI and let all DVC members hop there. It would be of greatest benefit to OKW owners as we should be able to hop on a boat and head over.

'nuff said on the subject.

[PamOKW]

In regards to the statement if you don't like OKW don't stay there, many DVC members that own at other resorts do try to avoid staying there and will only take a reservation at OKW as a last resort

Just to clarify. I didn't mean it as an insult or a negative to anyone. The example I cited was just the reverse of what you're saying. Rich finds many aspects of BWV objectionable to his tastes. Sometimes, he must either live with those problems and stay at BWV or make other arrangements. In his case, BWV is sometimes the "last resort" that he must find a way to tolerate. I'm just saying those who find the pool situation at OKW intolerable can also make the same decision. Those who find something to love at all the resorts do, of course, have the most options for using our points.

[crisi]

2 points, neither of which have anything to do with pools....

1. Someone made the comment that "we've had this discussion many times before." Please keep in mind that this is a pretty public board and the "we" is continually shifting. Its possible that someone who joined the board recently and hasn't seen this discussion is interested in participating. Its even possible that they have new insight into the "same old same old." If you aren't interested, don't read the thread.

2. Likewise, if you feel the discussion is over, leave and stop reading the thread. Don't declare it over. It looks like you are trying to get the last word in and shutting everyone else down. (Unless you are a moderator and are closing the thread, then you get to declare its over).

Thank you.

[PamOKW]

I just listened to the video. The manager doesn't say the majority of pool hoppers came from OKW. He says "a lot of the folks" were from OKW. He also says that the new pool "that he would like to see built" would have to be funded by member dues.

Crisi -- If you're talking about me I didn't intend to shut down the thread. I just backed out when it seemed we were going in circles. I stopped commenting so that others would jump in. I would very much love to hear from "new blood" about their thoughts on every aspect of DVC. I don't think we've heard from many, if any, VWL owners about how they feel about the loss of pool hopping. I would love to hear from other OKW owners (and non-owners who stay there) about how the loss of SAB influences how they feel about OKW's pools and the possibility of change.

[DeeP]

For the vast majority of times a member staying at BWV, BCV & WLV have to actively seek a reservation at these resorts, since they are for the most part hard resorts to get into especaially at the 7 mo or less mark. Not that I care nor does it have any bearing on this topic, but since you keep using RY as an example, if I am not mistaken the time he stayed at BWV he chose that resort because of the excellent location to the Food and Wine festival, so this was not him taking this resort as a last resort, he chose this resort. Most folks do not have to take BWV, BCV, WLV resorts as the only place available for the dates they need, these are resorts they have chosen to stay at for various reasons.. This is not the case with OKW, it has 148 more units than BWV and even more than that at BCV, WLV, so this is one of reasons OKW is usually available even at very short notice. I can't even tell you the number of times I have tried to get into BWV at less than the 7 mo window and have been told there was no room there nor at WLV but there has always been room at OKW. I am sure the same will hold true now with BCV being open. Many times I do change my dates to get into a DVC resort I prefer but for some people this is not possible, also there are times I can not change my dates either so it is either stay at OKW or pay cash for another WDW resort. Most times I will get an great AP rate at another WDW resort and save my points for another trip when I can stay at BWV , WLV or now BCV, but again sometimes I can't get a good AP rate, I must go to FL for business and OKW is the only game in town. This is truely taking a place as a last resort.
Not that this has anything to do with the orginial topic of the thread but I was just addressing your previous post.

[wdwsos]

Originally posted by PamOKW
I would love to hear from other OKW owners (and non-owners who stay there) about how the loss of SAB influences how they feel about OKW's pools and the possibility of change.

You asked for it. ;)

I'm an OKW owner who also just purchased an add-on at BCV. When we initially purchased in 1995, my boys were 13, 9 and 8. We had stayed at the YC a few times and, for us, pool hopping was a big factor in our decision to buy into the DVC. We didn't want to give up SAB.

As the kids got older (now 20, 16 and 15), we found that we pool-hopped less and less. It really became unimportant. The boys love the whole laid-back atmosphere at the OKW (we live in Boston and have enough excitement at home) and the hassle of packing up our stuff to swim elsewhere just wasn't worth the trouble. In the past few years, we found that the only time we wanted to pool hop to SAB was when staying at the BWV. I really don't like that clown pool, and the walk to SAB was easy.

Our decision to buy at BCV had little to do with BCV/SAB and much more to do with the $70/pt deal. We're staying for a few days in August, and I'm sure we'll use the pool (I mean c'mon - it's August!) but the quiet pool is enough for me.

I guess my answer is that taking away SAB didn't affect me one iota in the way I feel about the OKW pools. I love them the way they are, but also wouldn't much care one way or the other if reasonable changes were made. There will always be a quiet pool somewhere for me.