Back to 180

[MickeyMomTo2]

I am not sure if I can post this, but it looks like the 180 rumors are true.

http://www.mousemisers.com/2009/disney-world-dining-booking-window-moves-to-180-days/

[*NikkiBell*]

Awesome!!! I SO hope that this is true!!! :)

[leeann32]

I kinda liked the 90 day window. But with online bookings, I think I have changed my ADR's more than I did last year with the 180 day window :surfweb:

[mickey2000]

Rumor is that at the time of the change, all dining reservations will require a credit card guarantee.

HOPE NOT !!

[MickeyMomTo2]

I like that they will require a CC#. That will discourage double bookings and people not cancelling their unwanted reservations.

[NJRA]

I like that they will require a CC#. That will discourage double bookings and people not cancelling their unwanted reservations.

I totally agree:thumbsup2

[bangzoom6877]

I hope they bring back the 180 day ADRs!!! I LOVED them in 2008 and was disappointed when they changed it to 90.

I also agree that if there is a CC guarantee, fewer people will make ADRs "just in case" and fewer will double and triple book and then not bother to cancel.

I also feel that with a 180-day window, ADRs will not be as competitive as with a 90-day window. Fewer people are ready to book their meals at 180 days than at 90 days out. For that matter, many people do not even have their vacation booked 6 months before they go!

Here's to wishing and hoping for the return of the 180-day window! :genie:

[dwonders]

So happy there bringing back the 180 day reservations ... it makes it so much less stressful knowing you can book everything ALL together - since I normally book 6 months ahead - now I can make dining reservations too.

[bangzoom6877]

Oh one more thing.....

I sure hope they release the park hours more than 3 months in advance! I remember when I planned our July 2008 trip, I had made my ADRs in January at the 180-day window, and I already knew the EMH-hours so I knew what park we would be in each day. However, I did write down July 2009 EMH days since it was the same as July 2008, and I am hoping they remain the same for July 2010 when we go. I would hate to be sitting in Hollywood & Vine for the Playhouse Disney breakfast with my kids on an EMH morning!

[disneygirlinnj]

Rumor is that at the time of the change, all dining reservations will require a credit card guarantee.

HOPE NOT !!

PLEASE tell me they'll do this. All this double booking is getting slightly insane. If you don't want the ADR, cancel it ahead of time and nothing will happen.

[KYMickey]

I am not sure if I can post this, but it looks like the 180 rumors are true.
BOO! Terrible move, 90 days is still way too long.

Rumor is that at the time of the change, all dining reservations will require a credit card guarantee.
HOPE NOT !!
I certainly hope they start requiring a credit card guarantee no matter what their reservation time is.

[Cheshire Figment]

Looking at their site, the contact address is in Utah. I wonder how they got information that nobody locally has gotten.

And until Disney goes back to posting calendars more than three months out this is very unlikely.

[MickeyMomTo2]

Looking at their site, the contact address is in Utah. I wonder how they got information that nobody locally has gotten.

And until Disney goes back to posting calendars more than three months out this is very unlikely.

I don't know if the info is correct or not, but I do know that the Touring Plans website also mentioned that this could happen in October as well. They just didn't give a specific date.

[PoohsFan1]

It would be nice for them to go back to the 180 days, especially since they have been doing a ton of free dining offers. I too also think that if they are going to go back to this, then they should have the schedules out earlier than 3 months out. We are going to Disney the first week of December and am anxiously awaiting the December hours. I can't make my ADRs until Sept. 3rd, so I am hoping that they come out with the hours before me making them. It is so frustrating :mad:

[Cheshire Figment]

Personally I would like to see them go back to the old policy of 60 days for people staying at a Disney Resort and 30 days for everyone else.

But I would also like to see them do away with the Basic Dining Plan; keep the QS and Dx (and higher) plans.

And as a stockholder I would like to see the rule that if you get any dining plan, rather than at least a one day ticket for each person, that the purchase requirement be for at least 50% of the number of nights of the reservation. So, for example, with a seven night reservation that includes dining the tickets would have to be at least four days.

[mitros]

We still like the "old days" when it was not a problem making your dining reservation once you arrived for your vacation, or at the parks. I particularly liked the touch screens under SSE where you could nake your reservations for the day, before you went into the park. As well as the kiosks out on WS. {Didn't need no stinkin' 90 or 100 day dining windows.} And rarely had a problem getting any reservation we wanted bacl then. Yea, I know it won't work like that any more with the bazillion bodies on property. Oh well........:sad2:

[KYMickey]

I'm glad somebody else agrees of my line of thinking! Making reservations 180 days, or even 90 days out is ridiculous. Vacations are supposed to be relaxing and spontaneous in many regards. Having to decide that far in advance what you want to eat in when you want to eat it just ruins a vacation in my opinion.

[queenie82]

I'm glad somebody else agrees of my line of thinking! Making reservations 180 days, or even 90 days out is ridiculous. Vacations are supposed to be relaxing and spontaneous in many regards. Having to decide that far in advance what you want to eat in when you want to eat it just ruins a vacation in my opinion.
I think DVC members should be allowed to ADRs at 11months just like their accommodation...so just be grateful it is 90days even though it stuffs up the lives of so many planners. As a minimum it should be at a point BEFORE the release of free dining so those paying get preference of those not paying

[KYMickey]

I definitely agree about the people who were paying should get to choose before those that are getting free dining but I don't believe DVC owners should get any special treatment over others who were paying. I know they think the are a privileged class but they really aren't. In reality Disney is probably making less off of them than it is a family who comes every year and stays at one of the resorts!

[queenie82]

I definitely agree about the people who were paying should get to choose before those that are getting free dining but I don't believe DVC owners should get any special treatment over others who were paying. I know they think the are a privileged class but they really aren't. In reality Disney is probably making less off of them than it is a family who comes every year and stays at one of the resorts!
You guys just don't get it do you....
WE DON'T THINK WE ARE PRIVILEGED
WE ARE JUST PART OF THE PEOPLE WHO WILL ALWAYS PAY

So the point I was making was exactly the point you agree with
"people who were paying should get to choose before those that are getting free dining"

But no...people like you always have to assume we are saying we are privileged.

[MickeyMomTo2]

On the flip side, people who are getting free dining are paying RACK RATE at the resort. Should they be entitled to some resort perk over a DVC member or someone with a room discount?

I realize that free dining makes reservations more difficult, but the reality is that many people are at the World on some kind of discount. There are probably some who got a room discount that added the dining plan because they saved so much with their % off. They aren't eating "free", but they add to the number of people desiring reservations just the same. Why do only the "free" diners deserve the blame?

[bangzoom6877]

On the flip side, people who are getting free dining are paying RACK RATE at the resort. Should they be entitled to some resort perk over a DVC member or someone with a room discount?

I realize that free dining makes reservations more difficult, but the reality is that many people are at the World on some kind of discount. There are probably some who got a room discount that added the dining plan because they saved so much with their % off. They aren't eating "free", but they add to the number of people desiring reservations just the same. Why do only the "free" diners deserve the blame?

I don't think anyone deserves any sort of blame for anything...not people staying on free dining, not people with a resort discount, not DVC members, not people who go in the off-season and have an easier time getting ADRs. No one is at fault here.

Disney keeps changing things up to get more people to go to WDW, to fill up the resorts, to fill up their restaurants.

I think the original point of this thread was not to blame people at WDW on any sort of discount, but to express opinions about 180-day ADRs possibly coming back WITHOUT blaming any of the consumers.

No matter how many times Disney changes things, no matter what those changes are, they will never accomplish pleasing every single person out there.

[MissMagnolia]

I agree completely! No one should be blaming anyone, belittling anyone, or complaining about any one particular travel group. A DVC member is no better than someone traveling to WDW for the first time.

I just wish Disney would make up it's mind! They just changed to the 90 day policy for goodness sake! I don't care either way, but I do think that you should be required to guarantee your reservations. There shouldn't be any problem if you are planning on going on vacation and eating at that TS. I think people will be more careful about how many TSs they book and not be frivolous about ADRs. If you can cancel them without penalty somewhat prior to your trip, then no problem!

[MickeyMomTo2]

I don't think anyone deserves any sort of blame for anything...not people staying on free dining, not people with a resort discount, not DVC members, not people who go in the off-season and have an easier time getting ADRs. No one is at fault here.

Disney keeps changing things up to get more people to go to WDW, to fill up the resorts, to fill up their restaurants.

I think the original point of this thread was not to blame people at WDW on any sort of discount, but to express opinions about 180-day ADRs possibly coming back WITHOUT blaming any of the consumers.

No matter how many times Disney changes things, no matter what those changes are, they will never accomplish pleasing every single person out there.

I completely agree with you. I pointed out what I did because I have seen so many threads directing frustration/anger towards "free" diners. I think we should all choose what works for us, whether that be DVC, "free" dining, room discounts, etc... and be pleased that we are able to go to such a wonderful place using a promotion or system that works for us. A "free" diner in a value or moderate hotel will miss out on the deluxe amenities enjoyed by a DVCer, a DVCer may have to be more flexible with their dining reservations because of "free" diners. I just wish everyone would choose what works for them without being frustrated because others' discounts might interfere with them having everything they want.

[JCTigger]

what I would like to see is that if you have an ADR for more then one time and place a single day breakfast for example at Chef Mickeys for 830 am you cannot hold another ADR for Kona Cafe for 915 or any other TS place until after like 1130 when places start opening for lunch and then the same for dinner that way you do not double and triple book so people cannot get into places that I think is the major killer of being able to find a place to eat

i like the idea of having a CC# to make ressies but what about those on the dining plan free dining or not I like being on the dining plan because then i dont have to worry about saving that much more to go to the world i have already paid for all my meals before I even head down i always go down very budget conscience

Jill

[Colleen27]

I realize that free dining makes reservations more difficult, but the reality is that many people are at the World on some kind of discount. There are probably some who got a room discount that added the dining plan because they saved so much with their % off. They aren't eating "free", but they add to the number of people desiring reservations just the same. Why do only the "free" diners deserve the blame?

Those using the free dining discount shouldn't be treated any differently than those using other, potentially better discounts. However, a return to 180 days would effect both equally; ADRs would have to be booked before discount codes are released, which would favor DVCers and guests booking rack rate trips (and DISers who can predict future discounts pretty accurately :rolleyes1)

[bangzoom6877]

I agree completely! No one should be blaming anyone, belittling anyone, or complaining about any one particular travel group. A DVC member is no better than someone traveling to WDW for the first time.

I agree with this completely and I am a DVC member! I do not consider myself any better or any worse than any other guest at WDW. I simply bought a DVC membership because it suits my family's travel needs, and I understand that many people do not buy one because it does not suit their travel needs. Everyone should just do what is right for them. I do, however, agree with the people staying on Disney property having the advantage to book up to 10 days of ADRs after check-in when their window date come up.

[PHILCT]

I think the restaurants are too booked in advance to enjoy Disney as it once was years ago. I'm not against Disney getting the restaurants full, I just don't like that they give away free dining and force the restaurants to be full so far in advance. Also people feel like they have to pick the most pricey items on the menu.

If Disney wants to think of profit more and less about keeping the rooms and restaurants full, perhaps they should offer DINING DISCOUNT SPECIALS, like Tables in Wonderland for free during a resort stay.

Also maybe offer counter service at a similar discount, so that the Table service isn't automatically over booked.

People would participate in the cost of the dining selections and not just insist on the most expensive restaurants, or the most expensive meals.

Okay, you can yell at me now.

But I really miss being able to get a few decent reservations without making my Walt Disney trip a complete hour by hour plan 3 or 6 months in advance.

Even if your a great planner now, you can't get all those favorite choices always.

I think Disney might make a little more profit, with a few less rooms sold, but not giving away totally free dining and making the reservation system so crazy.

[queenie82]

I think the restaurants are too booked in advance to enjoy Disney as it once was years ago. I'm not against Disney getting the restaurants full, I just don't like that they give away free dining and force the restaurants to be full so far in advance. Also people feel like they have to pick the most pricey items on the menu.

If Disney wants to think of profit more and less about keeping the rooms and restaurants full, perhaps they should offer DINING DISCOUNT SPECIALS, like Tables in Wonderland for free during a resort stay.

Also maybe offer counter service at a similar discount, so that the Table service isn't automatically over booked.

People would participate in the cost of the dining selections and not just insist on the most expensive restaurants, or the most expensive meals.

Okay, you can yell at me now.

But I really miss being able to get a few decent reservations without making my Walt Disney trip a complete hour by hour plan 3 or 6 months in advance.

Even if your a great planner now, you can't get all those favorite choices always.

I think Disney might make a little more profit, with a few less rooms sold, but not giving away totally free dining and making the reservation system so crazy.
I like your thinking.....it would be much better than the offering of a free dining PLAN that completely messes with the system.

[bangzoom6877]

I think the restaurants are too booked in advance to enjoy Disney as it once was years ago. I'm not against Disney getting the restaurants full, I just don't like that they give away free dining and force the restaurants to be full so far in advance. Also people feel like they have to pick the most pricey items on the menu.

If Disney wants to think of profit more and less about keeping the rooms and restaurants full, perhaps they should offer DINING DISCOUNT SPECIALS, like Tables in Wonderland for free during a resort stay.

Also maybe offer counter service at a similar discount, so that the Table service isn't automatically over booked.

People would participate in the cost of the dining selections and not just insist on the most expensive restaurants, or the most expensive meals.

Okay, you can yell at me now.

But I really miss being able to get a few decent reservations without making my Walt Disney trip a complete hour by hour plan 3 or 6 months in advance.

Even if your a great planner now, you can't get all those favorite choices always.

I think Disney might make a little more profit, with a few less rooms sold, but not giving away totally free dining and making the reservation system so crazy.

Now that sounds like a good idea, just waive the fee for the Tables in Wonderland card, and have it available during a certain time period (like when free dining is currently available) without having to be a FL resident or have an annual pass. Just have it available during that time period for anyone staying at a Disney resort and paying rack rate, same as you have to pay rack rate right now in order to take advantage of free dining.

You're right, most people that are on the dining plan, free or paid for, are looking to get the most expensive meal in the most expensive place. That's why it is so hard to get into places like Le Cellier, where people can get filet mignon for one table service credit. Personally, my husband and I like the dining plan, but before making the decision to purchase it, we look at where we would like to eat and what it costs for the lowest priced items on each menu, add it all up and then see how much that costs compared to the dining plan, not even factoring in the snack credits. At this point it works for us but who knows in the future. My point is, I don't look to get the most expensive thing on the menu at all times, just something that I would like to eat. It is unrealistic that our family will go to WDW for 10 nights and DH and I will order NY Strip steak every single night! ;)

OK, now that I went off on a tangent about the dining plan...I am still waiting to see if Disney brings back the 180-day ADRs. I like them. For some reason, having the chance to make my ADRs in January instead of in April makes the trip seem that much closer. :)

[mitros]

Another result of these "free" dining programs is the dumbing down and/or posting far less choices on the menus.

[KYMickey]

Very true, the selection at the restaurants has definitely gone downhill. It used to be that you could enjoy a very elegant unique dinner at some of the DIS the restaurants. Now because of free dining and people always choosing the most expensive items the menus have become much more mundane. Maybe the free dining plan should actually be a plan where you get so many dollars allocated for a meal. The amount would cover some of the cheaper menu choices and your nonalcoholic drink but if you wanted the expensive items or something special you would have to pay an additional charge. This can quite possibly solve many of the problems with the present system without really hurting people who don't want to spend any more money. It would also allow some of the more unique (and expensive) menu items to return for those who didn't mind paying for them.

Everyone made I'll start throwing darts at me for this opinion!

[Colleen27]

Very true, the selection at the restaurants has definitely gone downhill. It used to be that you could enjoy a very elegant unique dinner at some of the DIS the restaurants. Now because of free dining and people always choosing the most expensive items the menus have become much more mundane. Maybe the free dining plan should actually be a plan where you get so many dollars allocated for a meal. The amount would cover some of the cheaper menu choices and your nonalcoholic drink but if you wanted the expensive items or something special you would have to pay an additional charge. This can quite possibly solve many of the problems with the present system without really hurting people who don't want to spend any more money. It would also allow some of the more unique (and expensive) menu items to return for those who didn't mind paying for them.

Everyone made I'll start throwing darts at me for this opinion!

These conversations always focus in on free dining, when the "free" part has nothing to do with anything. Free dining is a resort promotion, plain and simple, and it comes with a price - paying rack rate. The 40% off PINs I've received and the 4/3 deal are both better overall savings than free dining for my family, because we prefer deluxe resorts.

The real issue regarding the dining plan and menus, if there is one, is its popularity regardless of how it is paid for. Elegant and unique simply don't go hand-in-hand with serving thousands of people a day. A well prepared and creatively presented meal takes time, time that most people don't want to take away from their theme park experience.

But I don't think that's the root cause of the "simplified" menus either. Quite frankly, there is a substantial number of theme park guests to whom elegant and unique translates to stuffy and weird, and I suspect that the dining plan came about because Disney realized that's a larger segment of guests than the demographic willing to pay premium prices for an upscale dining experience. Disney has gone the route of appealing to the masses, and I believe that the dining plan was a part of that strategy, not the cause of it.

[bangzoom6877]

These conversations always focus in on free dining, when the "free" part has nothing to do with anything. Free dining is a resort promotion, plain and simple, and it comes with a price - paying rack rate. The 40% off PINs I've received and the 4/3 deal are both better overall savings than free dining for my family, because we prefer deluxe resorts.

The real issue regarding the dining plan and menus, if there is one, is its popularity regardless of how it is paid for. Elegant and unique simply don't go hand-in-hand with serving thousands of people a day. A well prepared and creatively presented meal takes time, time that most people don't want to take away from their theme park experience.

But I don't think that's the root cause of the "simplified" menus either. Quite frankly, there is a substantial number of theme park guests to whom elegant and unique translates to stuffy and weird, and I suspect that the dining plan came about because Disney realized that's a larger segment of guests than the demographic willing to pay premium prices for an upscale dining experience. Disney has gone the route of appealing to the masses, and I believe that the dining plan was a part of that strategy, not the cause of it.

I agree with you 100%, and it is not only Disney that is doing things like this to appeal to the masses. Cruise ships have done the same thing through the years. I have been on 13 cruises since 1990 and things have changed drastically as far as dining goes. There once was a day where there were no specialty restaurants on a ship for a surcharge, there was no buffet option on deck for dinner, and formal nights were just that...formal for everyone. I miss those days. I did not see the big deal in dressing up for dinner a couple of times, not wearing shorts to dinner, etc. But that did not cater to the masses. Much of the general American population would rather eat things like burgers and fries and buffet food on their vacation than fancy food, they don't care to dress up for dinner, and they don't want to have to have a reservation for dinner or a set time to go to dinner. Many people would rather be spontaneous and are not huge planners like I am.

So, Disney is just doing what they need to do for their bottom line...catering to the masses. I am just grateful that they have so many CS choices that are NOT burgers and fries! Last summer I only had one burger on our 5-night trip and that was completely by choice because I was in the mood for one! Otherwise it was always something else, and we had plenty of variety!

[IMACM]

The 180+ is true!!!!!!!! It was released to cast today!!!

[mickeysbestfriend]

Whew....now maybe we will have a chance to eat at the restaurants we love. We called 83 days out for September and only got one of four of our choices. We have trips planned for November and December so this is very welcome for our family since we have no problem choosing where to eat when we book our stay.

Since we are DVC owners the special room rates and free dining never apply.

Bill and Faith

[bangzoom6877]

The 180+ is true!!!!!!!! It was released to cast today!!!

Glad to hear this...now I hope they begin releasing park hours 6 months in advance again too. That will help a lot. If not, those of us who are huge planners will be making our ADRs in the blind.

[Disneymama5816]

As a TA, I am thrilled with the 180!!! It will make a real difference for a lot of my clients who book 8 months in advance (me included). I have no problem with the credit card guarantee, as long as you have a decent cancellation policy on it. Perhaps this will stop people from making dual reservations. I always cancel my ADRs, no matter how close to the time we are. I always hope someone will be able to take advantage of my slot. Perhaps a walk up at that moment. :thumbsup2 . Perhaps it will make people a little less stressed with more time to think about their plans - have a little more fun with their planning vs stress:goodvibes

[diamondpixienc]

I am confused 90? - 180?. I personally do not mind the time frame or having to use a CC guarantee :teacher: But I am going to check w/ my AAA agent for clarification. She is really awesome and very knowledgeable about Disney (she is a closet obsessed Disney fan) She has logged more than 30 trips not including the 6 years at AAA. So, if it hasn't been "officially" announced or just a rumor :hyper2: or will be announced any day now - She will find out for me!:magnify:

[IMACM]

I am confused 90? - 180?. I personally do not mind the time frame or having to use a CC guarantee :teacher: But I am going to check w/ my AAA agent for clarification. She is really awesome and very knowledgeable about Disney (she is a closet obsessed Disney fan) She has logged more than 30 trips not including the 6 years at AAA. So, if it hasn't been "officially" announced or just a rumor :hyper2: or will be announced any day now - She will find out for me!:magnify:

I am not sure what kind of "official" announcement you are looking for but I am a dine agent with Disney and is was "announced" to us today.

Park hours will be 180 now too!!!

[Condorman]

If IMACM says it's going back to 180 days, it is. They were spot-on about the online ADRs going live when they did. I have no doubt they are correct about this policy change as well.

People think this is some drastic change. All Disney is doing is returning to the way things were prior to the installation of the new reservation system.

The only issue I have is with them releasing park hours also at 180 days. I always thought they should come out at 210 days, one month ahead of ADRs. Sure, six months are better than three, but a little headway would be nice so as to finalize itineraries and schedules.

[KYMickey]

I agree with you 100%, and it is not only Disney that is doing things like this to appeal to the masses. Cruise ships have done the same thing through the years. I have been on 13 cruises since 1990 and things have changed drastically as far as dining goes. There once was a day where there were no specialty restaurants on a ship for a surcharge, there was no buffet option on deck for dinner, and formal nights were just that...formal for everyone. I miss those days. I did not see the big deal in dressing up for dinner a couple of times, not wearing shorts to dinner, etc. But that did not cater to the masses. Much of the general American population would rather eat things like burgers and fries and buffet food on their vacation than fancy food, they don't care to dress up for dinner, and they don't want to have to have a reservation for dinner or a set time to go to dinner. Many people would rather be spontaneous and are not huge planners like I am.

So, Disney is just doing what they need to do for their bottom line...catering to the masses. I am just grateful that they have so many CS choices that are NOT burgers and fries! Last summer I only had one burger on our 5-night trip and that was completely by choice because I was in the mood for one! Otherwise it was always something else, and we had plenty of variety!
You are definitely right, Disney is basically dumbing down the menu to cater to the masses. They use to really care about culinary excellence in many of their restaurants, to they that only exists in a select few and that number keeps getting smaller. Pretty soon it will matter where you eat because every restaurant will have the same menu! At least then it will be such a battle to get into a specific restaurant because it won't matter.

I find your statement about the cruise ship menus interesting because we've noticed the same thing. What they now consider their high-end restaurant in charge extra for is what used to be the the norm on cruise ships. While the food is still quite good on some ships it certainly not served as exquisitely and the presentations are nowhere near as formal.

About the only place that I know of that has gone the other way is Las Vegas. They used to be dominated by cheap buffets everywhere but now the trend is towards more high-end restaurants. Not saying the cheap buffets don't exist but they're no longer the signature restaurants like they used to be. Maybe that's why we seem to like going there more than we used to.

[yitbos96bb]

Rumor is that at the time of the change, all dining reservations will require a credit card guarantee.

HOPE NOT !!

I hope they do... I'm sick of the cretins who double and triple book... especially the ones who don't cancel... Ruins it for everyone.

[speedyf]

I still think that free dining causes the restaurants to be booked faster than when free dining is not offered.

Here is my experience. We usually do not opt for the food plan because we only plan 2 sit down meals (sometimes 3) during our 7 day vacation. Since the sit down meals are usually a character breakfast, lunch at Whispering Canyon, or something along those lines...the price is a bit cheaper and the meal plan is not really worth it to us.

Fast forward to our trip in October. I'm now a new DVC owner...but, I don't have enough points to stay an entire week in a 2BR with my extended family. We've decided to stay 4 nights in a moderate, and 4 nights using my DVC points.

We were planning 2 sit down meals...Boma and Ohana. I was waiting for the AP discount when low and behold...I had a free dining pin. I was able to use it to book all 3 of our moderate rooms and get free dining for my entire family.

Well...that changed everything...we went from 2 sit down meals...to 4 sit down meals. So, I now added Chefs De France and Le Cellier to our list since cost is not a factor.

I would think that if I wasn't a DVC member and I had the free dining pin, I would be eating 7 sit down meals instead of our normal (2-3) per trip.

I think that is what changes for most people. People with a discounted room rate or possibly a 7 for 4 type of deal, may still opt out of the dining plan and only eat 2 or 3 sit down meals to save some money. They may venture offsite or to Downtown Disney or possibly eat more in the food court. If they are offered free dining instead of a room discount, they immediately go from planning 2 or 3 sit down meals to planning 7...and that helps to fill up the restaurants.

Of course...this is just my opinion. I have no scientific evidence...but, it is the way we feel about our annual vacations to Disney. With my kids being younger, I'm not really there to sit down for a dining experience more than a couple of times during our stay...but, if you give it to me for free...I'll take advantage and sit down 7 nights at the best restaurants I can.

Speed :teleport:

[yitbos96bb]

Another result of these "free" dining programs is the dumbing down and/or posting far less choices on the menus.

Nah... That started happening long before the free dining plan... unless you are counting the old voucher system? I'd actually say it started in 2002 or so... Sometime in that post 9-11 environment when people didn't want to fly.

[bangzoom6877]

I am not sure what kind of "official" announcement you are looking for but I am a dine agent with Disney and is was "announced" to us today.

Park hours will be 180 now too!!!

Thank you for posting this! This makes me very happy, that park hours will also be released. I am very excited to be able to make ADRs for our July 2010 trip this coming January, instead of April!

[blissventure]

The 180+ is true!!!!!!!! It was released to cast today!!!

Very much appreciate your posts. :goodvibes

And...ummm...an aside. I've had a bit of fun backreading this thread. :laughing: OP (and OP's "Utah" source) was right, after all. ;)

[MickeyMomTo2]

I still think that free dining causes the restaurants to be booked faster than when free dining is not offered.

Here is my experience. We usually do not opt for the food plan because we only plan 2 sit down meals (sometimes 3) during our 7 day vacation. Since the sit down meals are usually a character breakfast, lunch at Whispering Canyon, or something along those lines...the price is a bit cheaper and the meal plan is not really worth it to us.

Fast forward to our trip in October. I'm now a new DVC owner...but, I don't have enough points to stay an entire week in a 2BR with my extended family. We've decided to stay 4 nights in a moderate, and 4 nights using my DVC points.

We were planning 2 sit down meals...Boma and Ohana. I was waiting for the AP discount when low and behold...I had a free dining pin. I was able to use it to book all 3 of our moderate rooms and get free dining for my entire family.

Well...that changed everything...we went from 2 sit down meals...to 4 sit down meals. So, I now added Chefs De France and Le Cellier to our list since cost is not a factor.

I would think that if I wasn't a DVC member and I had the free dining pin, I would be eating 7 sit down meals instead of our normal (2-3) per trip.

I think that is what changes for most people. People with a discounted room rate or possibly a 7 for 4 type of deal, may still opt out of the dining plan and only eat 2 or 3 sit down meals to save some money. They may venture offsite or to Downtown Disney or possibly eat more in the food court. If they are offered free dining instead of a room discount, they immediately go from planning 2 or 3 sit down meals to planning 7...and that helps to fill up the restaurants.

Of course...this is just my opinion. I have no scientific evidence...but, it is the way we feel about our annual vacations to Disney. With my kids being younger, I'm not really there to sit down for a dining experience more than a couple of times during our stay...but, if you give it to me for free...I'll take advantage and sit down 7 nights at the best restaurants I can.

Speed :teleport:

There is no doubt that free dining does increase the numbers of people in the restaurants. However, free dining isn't really free because those who choose the free dining discount pay full price for their room. For someone to complain about free diners when they have chosen a different discount isn't a fair complaint. Many complaints have been made about how the free diners shouldn't get to make their reservations at the same time as those who pay full price. In reality, those complaining have often gotten a different discount. They aren't paying full price for something, but I don't often hear them offering to give up a nicer room or amenities because they are getting a cheaper price for their room.

[bangzoom6877]

There is no doubt that free dining does increase the numbers of people in the restaurants. However, free dining isn't really free because those who choose the free dining discount pay full price for their room. For someone to complain about free diners when they have chosen a different discount isn't a fair complaint. Many complaints have been made about how the free diners shouldn't get to make their reservations at the same time as those who pay full price. In reality, those complaining have often gotten a different discount. They aren't paying full price for something, but I don't often hear them offering to give up a nicer room or amenities because they are getting a cheaper price for their room.

You have a realistic view of what free dining truly is...paying rack rate for your room and full price for your tickets then not having to pay for the DDP. But in reality, most people do not view it this way. Most people out there who vacation at Disney are not aware of what a pin code or any other code or rate special is, unless it is something that is advertised, such as the free dining promotion. This is how Disney attracts these types of people...the people who have never done any Disney research...and they get them to stay in a Disney resort and fill up their restaurants. There is a very strong possibility that if Disney did not offer this promotion, those same people would not stay on property, or at the very least would not eat a TS meal everyday at a Disney restaurant. Maybe they would choose to eat off-property or mostly CS if they felt like they were paying for it out of pocket.

So, while I do not think any particular group of people is to blame for the restaurants being hard to book, the fact is that certain ones in particular are much harder to book while the free dining promotion is going on...to no fault of the people who take advantage of free dining, but due to the promotion itself and to how many more people it attracts to come to TS restaurants vs. how many people would go to these places if there was no promotion going on. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am certainly not pointing a finger at people who choose to take advantage of free dining and book more TS places than they normally would book. Why wouldn't they do this if they have the opportunity?

I do NOT agree with a tiered ADR system though. I don't think people should be punished for having the free dining plan. I don't think people should be punished if all they could afford is a Value resort. And I don't think people should be punished because they are DVC members either, or because they chose to stay off-property. I think that the people staying on property already have an advantage of being able to book 10 days of dining for their trip already and that is fair enough of an advantage. As you said, a guest who used a 40% off code for their resort room still is treated the same as a guest who paid rack rate for their room. Likewise, a guest who purchased tickets through UT or another discounted rate gets to enjoy all the same things in a theme park as a guest who bought at top price through Disney.

[Joolish1313]

I'm glad to hear that they are bringing back the 180 day mark for reservations but it wouldn't surprise me if they do require a credit card to make them - there is a spot for it already on the online reservation form. (sigh) If it means I get to eat at Tutto Italia, then I'll do it.

[bangzoom6877]

I'm glad to hear that they are bringing back the 180 day mark for reservations but it wouldn't surprise me if they do require a credit card to make them - there is a spot for it already on the online reservation form. (sigh) If it means I get to eat at Tutto Italia, then I'll do it.

I would not be surprised either if they do this, and I am all for it. I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I think that if they implement this CC requirement, people would not double and triple book ADRs and then just not show to some of them. At the very least, if they are really lenient and you have to call the day of the scheduled ADR in order not to be charged, it would open up a slot for a walk-up or for someone trying to make an ADR that day while on property. And, it would most likely deter many people from double and triple booking ADRs, opening up many more slots at TS restaurants for others.

[IMACM]

If IMACM says it's going back to 180 days, it is. They were spot-on about the online ADRs going live when they did. I have no doubt they are correct about this policy change as well.

People think this is some drastic change. All Disney is doing is returning to the way things were prior to the installation of the new reservation system.

The only issue I have is with them releasing park hours also at 180 days. I always thought they should come out at 210 days, one month ahead of ADRs. Sure, six months are better than three, but a little headway would be nice so as to finalize itineraries and schedules.

Thanks!!! I don't come here to start rumors....just trying to help out!!

[MissMagnolia]

IMACM: Did they give you a start date for this?

[Pumbaa_]

the date the 180 days opens up is Oct. 27th. SHould be an interesting day popcorn::

[dizneechic]

So will the 180 on hours also take place on 10/27 or will those come out sooner so we can plan?

[Cheshire Figment]

And the onlines reservations system is still messed up vbeyond belief. For example, Disney just had to adjust the AK park hours because they had two weeks where ADRs were being given as much as two hours after scheduled park closing.

And they have been booking parties of ten into Teppan Edo where there is a maxium of eight to a table.

And there are reports of people getting calls of having to cancel reservations bvecause the system overbooked.

They need to get the current system working with 100% accurace before they go further.