Nutty rumor - is it true?

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Ok, I'm having trouble believing this rumor heard yesterday from a castmember.

I was told that WDW is changing seating in Counter Service restaurants from comfortable seats to stools. The "Disney line" is they have made the decision because stools fit under the tables more conveniently but the non-public reason actually is so people will spend less time sitting and leave the restauant quicker.

I haven't been there in a couple of months. Have recent travelers noticed chairs being replaced by stools in counter service restaurants?

Crazy rumor?

[Jessfrogger88]

Jeez I hope not... seriously that's just rude.

[Blumonkeyboy]

The rumor was discussed on the Podcast. Looks true. Im going to organize a sit in if it happens. IRONY!

[skier_pete]

The rumor was discussed on the Podcast. Looks true. Im going to organize a sit in if it happens. IRONY!

I have a hard time believing this...the practicality of replacing maybe 5,000 - 10,000 chairs in all the CS restaurants, making the guests more uncomfortable just to make it so that they'll stay in the restaurant for shorter time? So, at $100 a chair, that $1 million. And what's the point, it's not like guests can't get seats at most CS restaurants.

Disney's not this dumb. Stupid rumor made up by a hater.

SkierPete

[Blumonkeyboy]

I have a hard time believing this...the practicality of replacing maybe 5,000 - 10,000 chairs in all the CS restaurants, making the guests more uncomfortable just to make it so that they'll stay in the restaurant for shorter time? So, at $100 a chair, that $1 million. And what's the point, it's not like guests can't get seats at most CS restaurants.

Disney's not this dumb. Stupid rumor made up by a hater.

SkierPete
Disney posted losses, and raised ticket prices.
While i agree, this would be incredibly stupid, i wouldnt put it past them.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Disney counter service furniture takes a beating and I am sure it is replaced on some sort of schedule. Maybe this is something they will do over time.

After watching how they fired people in March -- rather WHO they fired, I would put nothing past them.

Remember when the russian spacecraft was going to crash to earth? All the network's morning shows had pretty graphics of the event? Remember the graphics on ABC? Oops, there were NO graphics because they had fired the entire department in Washington and did not have enough remaining staff to cover NY 24 hours a day. When it came to air time guess what did ABC use.....a large pad of paper and a magic marker. At the next meeting people were giving birth to a cow, spitting fire and looking for someone to blame/yell at --- until someone found the courage to quietly remind the grownups....they had fired everyone who could have created a graphic.

People believe me when I say it's ALL ABOUT $$$$, everything else is a far away second.


As absurd as this story sounds.....I'm afraid that someone on the West Coast might have gotten a big high five for the BRILLIANT idea....and no one really thought it through beyond - YEA - more $$.

I enjoy a good sit-down from time to time. Pecos Bill comes to mind because it's shaded and cool--you can wait for the parades here easily.

[Blumonkeyboy]

Disney counter service furniture takes a beating and I am sure it is replaced on some sort of schedule. Maybe this is something they will do over time.

After watching how they fired people in March -- rather WHO they fired, I would put nothing past them.

Remember when the russian spacecraft was going to crash to earth? All the network's morning shows had pretty graphics of the event? Remember the graphics on ABC? Oops, there were NO graphics because they had fired the entire department in Washington and did not have enough remaining staff to cover NY 24 hours a day. When it came to air time guess what did ABC use.....a large pad of paper and a magic marker. At the next meeting people were giving birth to a cow, spitting fire and looking for someone to blame/yell at --- until someone found the courage to quietly remind the grownups....they had fired everyone who could have created a graphic.

People believe me when I say it's ALL ABOUT $$$$, everything else is a far away second.


As absurd as this story sounds.....I'm afraid that someone on the West Coast might have gotten a big high five for the BRILLIANT idea....and no one really thought it through beyond - YEA - more $$.

I enjoy a good sit-down from time to time. Pecos Bill comes to mind because it's shaded and cool--you can wait for the parades here easily.
Pecos Bill already has had the backs off, for as long as i remember.

[tiggspring]

I think it could be true. They will need to change the chairs at somepoint due to wear and tear. If they pick stools they should be cheaper since they are half the material. It will also be easier/faster for staff to clean. My poor Back wouldnt like it though:sad2:

[fireflymedic]

If they do I bet they change back right after someone sues because there child fell off backwards and is now brain damaged.

Young children (pre schoolers) should not set on a stool IMHO

[ChrisFL]

After seeing how Pecos Bills is, this would not surprise me ONE BIT...it's all about getting the most guests in and out...who cares about comfort :rolleyes:

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Pecos Bill already has had the backs off, for as long as i remember.


How sad....I was there in December and was plopped there to secure a place while everyone ran for food.

How sad.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

If they do I bet they change back right after someone sues because there child fell off backwards and is now brain damaged.

Young children (pre schoolers) should not set on a stool IMHO




VERY good point! I never thought about this.

Parents - what do you do with your small children when the only choice is a stool vs. a chair with a back?

[Geubux]

Hey, Waffle House doesn't have padded seats for the same reason: They make money by feeding you, not by letting you campout until your fat butt is ready to move to the next snack zone.:happytv:

[GSDRescuer]

young children + stools = accident waiting to happen

[rodkenrich]

New furnishings for a restaurant isn't cheap even by Disney standards.

[CanadianGuy]

A friend of mine works in the restaurant business and I ran this story by him and he nodded that it could potentially be true because that sort of thing makes economic sense.

If you break down the table cycles for the CS places ... and then shave 2-3 minutes of each table cycle ... then presuming the kitchen can keep up ... the total serving capacity has just increased ... while you're doing a capital investmetn you'd need to do anyway (replacing chairs).

His opinion was that he doubted very much it would be stools... but less comfortable chairs - absolutely. Less comfortable chairs are far less money than more comfy.. so there are savings to be had in the standard replacement process. And since this is a capital expenditure it can be amortized over the life of the chairs which can have advantageous tax benefits.

The economics are there.. again - presuming the kitchen can keep up and at most CS places I believe that it could.

Knox

[Figment1983]

Disney posted losses, and raised ticket prices.
While i agree, this would be incredibly stupid, i wouldnt put it past them.

Just to clarify, Disney did not post losses, their revenue fell 26%, they still made a profit of $954 million for the quarter.

[Figment1983]

my previous post should have said profits fell 26%, not revenue.

[mitros]

If Disneys makes it more uncomfortable to eat in their restaurants, guests simply must stop using those eateries. Maybe then Disney will recognize their mistakes and change it back.....................NAH! Disney cares nothing about the customer any more. Only their bottom line.....and Igers $alary..:sad2:

[skier_pete]

If you break down the table cycles for the CS places ... and then shave 2-3 minutes of each table cycle ... then presuming the kitchen can keep up ... the total serving capacity has just increased ... while you're doing a capital investmetn you'd need to do anyway (replacing chairs).

Knox

But...this only works if the seating capacity is filled. Every time we go, even during Free Dining, we have had no trouble finding tables at any CS restaurant we've eaten at.

Oh well, I guess I wouldn't put it past the suits doing this...I just don't see the practicality of it.

SkierPete

[anthony2k7]

If Disneys makes it more uncomfortable to eat in their restaurants, guests simply must stop using those eateries. Maybe then Disney will recognize their mistakes and change it back.....................NAH! Disney cares nothing about the customer any more. Only their bottom line.....and Igers $alary..:sad2:

But with ever growing number of people tied into eating at those eateries because of the DDP, Disney no doubt see this as an opportunity with no downsides to it.

Its so sad that even disney, where you think customer satisfaction is the highest priority are ruled by the bean counters who think that even in the service and entertainment industry those two things (service and entertainment) are entirely expendable to their business. Sooner or later they're going to reach a tipping point where customers will say "no more!" and visitor levels will drop dramaticly.

[CanadianGuy]

But...this only works if the seating capacity is filled. Every time we go, even during Free Dining, we have had no trouble finding tables at any CS restaurant we've eaten at.

Oh well, I guess I wouldn't put it past the suits doing this...I just don't see the practicality of it.

SkierPete

I pretty much agree that I don't think CS seating - overall - is that big of an issue ... but then what the heck do I know? I'm there at most 7 to 10 days a year.

I really just meant to convey that such considerations (table turnover) is an issue in most restaurants from Wendy's to Narcoosee's.

And yeah, I wouldn't put it past the bean counters. Even if it was just on the 'hey, these chairs are cheaper' reasoning.

Knox

[tjkraz]

As others said, this phenomenon isn't exactly new in the dining industry. For decades certain chains have tweaked their seating specifically to make things a little less comfortable for guests. Studies show that changes as simple as removing the padding or just angling the seat in a slightly uncomfortable manner have an impact.

That said, I do question whether Disney really has anything to gain from something like this. The Disney theme parks have a much more captive audience than a street-corner McDonald's or Burger King. If you walk into a McDonald's and find all of the seats filled, they may lose your business. But at a Disney theme park, guests still have to eat.

I doubt many people respond to ABC Commissary being full by making the 30+ minute journey to an off-site restaurant. (That's a trip which includes walking to the front of the park, taking the tram, driving off-property, etc.)

Based upon my own experiences, one of the biggest problems at Disney CS locations is a lack of seating during prime dining times. We visited WDW in early-June (not nearly peak summer crowds) and still had trouble finding seats about 40-50% of the time that we dined at Counter Service restaurants.

While a move like this may be designed to move the traffic in-and-out faster, I don't see any big potential for profit growth. But what I do see is a less stressful experience for those who don't enjoy walking around for 5 minutes with a tray of food waiting for a seat to open up.

Will Disney actually do this at all restaurants? Let's just say that I'll believe it when I see it. Some restaurants have booths and I doubt those are being ripped out to replace with stools.

In retrospect I think we dined at one or two places that had benches / stools, and it never really dawned on me until reading this thread. Seems like either Columbia Harbor House or Pecos Bill's had them. :confused3

[Mith]

I don't see the big deal. Just another thing for some of the haters to get in a fury about. I can't think of one time that I sat there eating and thought to myself "Wow, this chair is COMFY!". I am there to eat, get a brief respite from the sun, and then move on to more of the magic.

The table service meals are the ones where we are apt to linger a little bit and get a good rest before tackling the parks some more.

[TDSAXX]

I don't see the big deal. Just another thing for some of the haters to get in a fury about. I can't think of one time that I sat there eating and thought to myself "Wow, this chair is COMFY!". I am there to eat, get a brief respite from the sun, and then move on to more of the magic.

The table service meals are the ones where we are apt to linger a little bit and get a good rest before tackling the parks some more.

Shhhhhhhhhh! Don't give Disney any ideas or TS will be the next to get stools.

Of course knowing Disney the next step will be just to make everyone stand. Not only will it get people in and out quicker, but they'll also save the expense of buying chairs/stools and be able to squeeze even more people in the restaurant. On the upside at least this will make getting ADR's easier.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Shhhhhhhhhh! Don't give Disney any ideas or TS will be the next to get stools.

Of course knowing Disney the next step will be just to make everyone stand. Not only will it get people in and out quicker, but they'll also save the expense of buying chairs/stools and be able to squeeze even more people in the restaurant. On the upside at least this will make getting ADR's easier.


Silly - Silly - Silly.

Ok, what do we 50' somethings (with a formerly crushed ankle) do by mid-day when our little feet are saying SIT DOWN !!!

Well, I guess my "dogs" will be barking to sit down....but I"ll have no trouble getting into Victoria and Alberts!!!

[mitros]

I don't see the big deal. Just another thing for some of the haters to get in a fury about. I can't think of one time that I sat there eating and thought to myself "Wow, this chair is COMFY!". I am there to eat, get a brief respite from the sun, and then move on to more of the magic.

The table service meals are the ones where we are apt to linger a little bit and get a good rest before tackling the parks some more.

So, "haters", huh? Ya' got it wrong my friend. We are the folks who have given Disney our money for the last 38 years, and have always loved Disney.....until now. Walt would indeed spin in his urn if he knew what they {read: Iger} are doing to his company. He wanted the guests to enjoy themselves. He made changes for the BETTER as needed during his tenure, not to make his guests unhappy and uncomfortable. THAT is what made Disneyland different, and for many years WDW as well. A Disney vacation was a wonderful experience at one time. What they are doing to it is criminal. Remember, friend we do NOT hate Disney, just what the bean counters are doing to it................

[anthony2k7]

doesnt matter a whole lot anyway, give it another 5 years and 90% of visitors will be on mobility scooters anyway going by how popular they are already even with what appear to be physically well people.

[tjkraz]

So, "haters", huh? Ya' got it wrong my friend. We are the folks who have given Disney our money for the last 38 years, and have always loved Disney.....until now. Walt would indeed spin in his urn if he knew what they {read: Iger} are doing to his company. He wanted the guests to enjoy themselves. He made changes for the BETTER as needed during his tenure, not to make his guests unhappy and uncomfortable. THAT is what made Disneyland different, and for many years WDW as well. A Disney vacation was a wonderful experience at one time. What they are doing to it is criminal. Remember, friend we do NOT hate Disney, just what the bean counters are doing to it................

Perhaps true. But Walt didn't have to deal with Wall Street in the 80s, 90s and 00s. He also had no intentions of putting four theme parks, two water parks and 20+ hotels on that Florida land.

What we have now is the result of decades of input and development from scores of Disney executives, Imagineers and Cast Members. Some ideas are good...some ideas are bad. We can't even conclude that things would be better under Walt. All we know is that they would be different.

(I happen to think that Walt would have gone forward with his futuristic E.P.C.O.T. city concept, and that its failure would have permanently tarnished his legacy.)

Of course that's all academic since Walt has been dead for over 40 years.

it's ridiculous to assume that in the 50s people were walking around Disneyland, smiling from ear-to-ear, thrilled with everything from prices to crowd levels to the comfort level of their chairs. Walt was a businessman and he often made rational business decisions, even when those decisions meant 60+ minute attraction lines and non-functional drinking fountains.

[mitros]

Perhaps true. But Walt didn't have to deal with Wall Street in the 80s, 90s and 00s. He also had no intentions of putting four theme parks, two water parks and 20+ hotels on that Florida land.

What we have now is the result of decades of input and development from scores of Disney executives, Imagineers and Cast Members. Some ideas are good...some ideas are bad. We can't even conclude that things would be better under Walt. All we know is that they would be different.

(I happen to think that Walt would have gone forward with his futuristic E.P.C.O.T. city concept, and that its failure would have permanently tarnished his legacy.)

Of course that's all academic since Walt has been dead for over 40 years.

it's ridiculous to assume that in the 50s people were walking around Disneyland, smiling from ear-to-ear, thrilled with everything from prices to crowd levels to the comfort level of their chairs. Walt was a businessman and he often made rational business decisions, even when those decisions meant 60+ minute attraction lines and non-functional drinking fountains.

Yea, but he was pretty pissed off about those fountains not working. As well as all the things that did not go right and caused the guests to be miserable. But he did something about it. The guest was the boss. Yes. I do realize it's not Walt, it's not the 50's,but these guys running Disney now really need to listen to the people about what is going on, and act on it.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

So, "haters", huh? Ya' got it wrong my friend. We are the folks who have given Disney our money for the last 38 years, and have always loved Disney.....until now. Walt would indeed spin in his urn if he knew what they {read: Iger} are doing to his company. He wanted the guests to enjoy themselves. He made changes for the BETTER as needed during his tenure, not to make his guests unhappy and uncomfortable. THAT is what made Disneyland different, and for many years WDW as well. A Disney vacation was a wonderful experience at one time. What they are doing to it is criminal. Remember, friend we do NOT hate Disney, just what the bean counters are doing to it................


Ok Mitros - here we go agreeing again - people will begin to talk!

I DO agree.....more and more Disney fans are becoming troubled. Why - because we LOVE Disney and we only want to hold them up to their own standards.


.....and as far as scooters are concerned.....you are right about the increasing numbers.

I had to use a scooter for the first time last December. It was a scooter or cancelling the trip because of an ankle injury. I kicked and spit, I whined and cried - I did not want a scooter but couldn't walk as far as the lobby without one.

We had a wonderful holiday - but I took the time the first day to get used to using it.....not eveyone does.

You are right. The numbers are increasing. One reason I believe - it is SOOOOO easy to rent a scooter and not heart-crushingly expensive. There are multiple companies, easy to use, convenient - they deliver to the resort. When you are at your resort, valet parking is FREE with a handicapped tag on your mirror.

They are NOT fun in a crowd - we avoided crowds...but for us, it saved the trip. I am sure there are more than a few who abuse the priviledge.....but I wish those who DO rent them....would take a little time to learn how to DRIVE one!!

Sorry, it looks like I hijacked my own thread!

[Mith]

So, "haters", huh? Ya' got it wrong my friend. We are the folks who have given Disney our money for the last 38 years, and have always loved Disney.....until now. Walt would indeed spin in his urn if he knew what they {read: Iger} are doing to his company. He wanted the guests to enjoy themselves. He made changes for the BETTER as needed during his tenure, not to make his guests unhappy and uncomfortable. THAT is what made Disneyland different, and for many years WDW as well. A Disney vacation was a wonderful experience at one time. What they are doing to it is criminal. Remember, friend we do NOT hate Disney, just what the bean counters are doing to it................

Sorry, based on the posts I've seen you make around here, we'll have to disagree "friend".

[mitros]

Sorry, based on the posts I've seen you make around here, we'll have to disagree "friend".

You have made 23 posts and you say....................
Never mind, I'll be wasting my breath on you.

[ChrisFL]

(I happen to think that Walt would have gone forward with his futuristic E.P.C.O.T. city concept, and that its failure would have permanently tarnished his legacy.)

How do you know it would have been a failure? A lot of people said Disneyland was going to be a failure too, but look what happened.

[tjkraz]

Yea, but he was pretty pissed off about those fountains not working. As well as all the things that did not go right and caused the guests to be miserable. But he did something about it. The guest was the boss. Yes. I do realize it's not Walt, it's not the 50's,but these guys running Disney now really need to listen to the people about what is going on, and act on it.

Those are easy claims to make in the abstract and much more difficult to implement in real-life.

Walt didn't have to deal with today's Wall Street. He didn't have to deal with competition from Sea World, Universal, Busch Gardens, etc. Walt didn't have to answer to bloggers trying to save the Conestoga Wagons or demanding to know how he had the audacity to put the Matterhorn in Tomorrowland. He didn't have to schedule around the preferred touring plans and "best days" posted to dozens of websites and tour guides.

And his one little park out in the former orange groves didn't have a fraction of the following that the Disney parks have today.

All-in-all, I respect the opinion that the Disney parks have slacked off in some areas. And I have my own list of issues that make me growl. But many of the topics raised often come across as complaining for the sake of complaining. There are no solutions offered...just more "Walt wouldn't have let that happen!"

So perhaps some restaurants are replacing chairs with stools. And perhaps it is to increase turn-over. As I said in my first post, I have walked around restaurants tray-in-hand waiting for a table to open up. And I've seen photos of people eating their meals on restaurant floors during peak periods because there was no seating. So, if these moves are designed to keep people from lingering in restaurants I say "bravo!"

What would Walt have done differently? The restaurants at Disneyland are not noticeably bigger than at WDW so apparently he thought there were right-sized.

I've read first-hand accounts of lines for the Matterhorn stretching past the FOUR HOUR mark at Disneyland. So please don't tell me that Walt would have built a fifth, sixth and seventh theme park at WDW to guarantee everyone wait times of 20 minutes or less.

Walt was a businessman. He had a philosophy of giving customers a certain quality product and felt that it would lead to personal success (and wealth.) But let's not pretend that he was entirely altruistic, nor that he threw common sense out the door and made non-sensical business decisions simply because they might improve the experience of a select group of guests.

How do you know it would have been a failure? A lot of people said Disneyland was going to be a failure too, but look what happened.

Oh, I never claimed to know that they would be a failure...it's just my opinion and certainly open to debate. Based upon what little we know of his vision (including the TTA model) it was to be a futuristic city with the business district in the central hub and public transportation extending to the surrounding residential areas.

That description alone raises a number of red flags, IMO. Back in the 60s and 70s people weren't particularly warm to the idea of public transportation. And even in today's "green" society things aren't much better.

Futuristic stylings tend to look outdated and corny quite fast.

The Florida swampland may not even have been suitable for construction on such a scale.

I'm nowhere near an expert on urban planning, but I think the fact that nobody has pursued Walt's concept over the last 40+ years speaks volumes.

Granted there will never be any hard evidence to support either argument. But I have my doubts as to whether even Walt would have been able to pull off such a project--a project that makes Disneyland construction seem like child's play by comparison (27,000 acres vs 160 acres--WDW is a combined 168 times the size of Disneyland.) Where would the money come from? How would you get hundreds of businesses and thousands of residents to commit to such a project?

And I question whether people would have embraced such a lifestyle.

The only certainty is that Walt did NOT buy that land to build four theme parks and a host of resort hotels. The mere existence of Walt Disney World is, quite frankly, a testament to Walt not seeing one of his dreams come to fruition.

[Chuck S]

So, "haters", huh? Ya' got it wrong my friend. We are the folks who have given Disney our money for the last 38 years, and have always loved Disney.....until now. Walt would indeed spin in his urn if he knew what they {read: Iger} are doing to his company. He wanted the guests to enjoy themselves. He made changes for the BETTER as needed during his tenure, not to make his guests unhappy and uncomfortable. THAT is what made Disneyland different, and for many years WDW as well. A Disney vacation was a wonderful experience at one time. What they are doing to it is criminal. Remember, friend we do NOT hate Disney, just what the bean counters are doing to it................

Gosh that sounds familiar. I'm sure glad they replaced Michael Eisner ;) Be careful what you wish for.

[bsbrady]

Look if they replace the chairs on some sort of schedule, and they decide to buy less expensive chairs what is the big deal.

[fireflymedic]

VERY good point! I never thought about this.

Parents - what do you do with your small children when the only choice is a stool vs. a chair with a back?


my 3 yr. old sat in my lap last time this happend to me. It was a bar type resteraunt at Panama City Beach, with high tables so a high chair would not have worked. Never be back to that place buy it was the only place without standing room only so we took it.

[dwonders]

I have a hard time believing this...the practicality of replacing maybe 5,000 - 10,000 chairs in all the CS restaurants, making the guests more uncomfortable just to make it so that they'll stay in the restaurant for shorter time? So, at $100 a chair, that $1 million. And what's the point, it's not like guests can't get seats at most CS restaurants.

Disney's not this dumb. Stupid rumor made up by a hater.

SkierPete

I agree ... but then again they might not be thinking about it in the long run - the profits from the people moving out "quicker" would take a while to repay how much they spent on the chairs ...

[RACHELSMOM1]

doesnt matter a whole lot anyway, give it another 5 years and 90% of visitors will be on mobility scooters anyway going by how popular they are already even with what appear to be physically well people.

What has this to do with the matter being discussed? You don't know if that person on a scooter is able bodied!! You don't even deserve this response, so that is all I will say to you!!

[ChrisFL]

What has this to do with the matter being discussed? You don't know if that person on a scooter is able bodied!! You don't even deserve this response, so that is all I will say to you!!

here we go again...:rolleyes:

[safetymom]

There are stools now at Pecos Bills. Cosmic Rays is next to get stools instead of chairs with backs.

[kmk1180]

I don't see the big deal. Just another thing for some of the haters to get in a fury about. I can't think of one time that I sat there eating and thought to myself "Wow, this chair is COMFY!". I am there to eat, get a brief respite from the sun, and then move on to more of the magic.

The table service meals are the ones where we are apt to linger a little bit and get a good rest before tackling the parks some more.

:lmao: I agree. But it's not really haters, more whinner's. SInce you have only 26 posts, I'll assume your new to the boards....You'll find that if Disney changes ANYTHING, you'll find people here on the boards complaining about it. And it's always Disney is dropping it's standards.
Those people will still go, and make it sound like 10, 15 or 20 years ago everything was perfect...nobody ever waited in lines, you could walk up to any resturant and sit and eat without an ADR, the place was perfect everywhere, the food was way better....ect.

[ChrisFL]

....you could walk up to any resturant and sit and eat without an ADR, the place was perfect everywhere, the food was way better....ect.

Those things are true, or at least much better 15-20 years ago than they are now...that is obvious

[Babsicles]

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

[queenie82]

Doesn't bother me at all. People will STILL come and buy the food and eat the food. Especially if they are on a dining plan.

To be honest...the last time I ate counter service I ate it sitting on a wall away from the battle for tables and had a lovely time. Sitting at any counter service location other than The Land isn't all that desirable to me so stool, chair, brick wall, bench....just stick your butt somewhere....eat...and move on!

[PrincessAurora206]

Those things are true, or at least much better 15-20 years ago than they are now...that is obvious

I concur. I grew up near Disney and have been there hundreds of times over the last 26 years so it's easy for me to see that they are slipping in many areas. It's understandable that some people would be upset about certain changes (don't even get me started on how they ruined Imagination, brought in Mission Space, etc. etc... haha).

If the stool thing is true, then it is kind of lame but not surprising. Disney is a business, first and foremost, and they'll do whatever's best for their bottomline whether it's a good decision or not.

[Chuck S]

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

I still have most problems addressed during our visit, only writing if the problem is quite minor and I didn't want to deal with it at the time. Vacations and technology have both changed in 20+ years. Email and lack of high long distance prices make it easier for the guest to address the problem when they return home by phone and email. And how many posters do we see that come to the boards to complain, but did not even report the " vacation ruining" problem while they were at WDW because they didn't want to "waste precious vacation time" dealing with it? There are two sides to that coin. And yes, making ADRs took time using those kiosks, they were fun, but you usally had to wait in line to get to them. Just like an attraction.

[kmk1180]

Those things are true, or at least much better 15-20 years ago than they are now...that is obvious

If you think so ok but I've got Disney experiences dating back to 1977
and remember it wasn't so perfect as you pretend it was.
I think you only remember the best memories and maybe a few really bad ones. but forget the average stuff like the box of popcorn on the street. or the lack of choices at CS meals, the long lines because there wasn't anything else to do.
Plus you didn't have places like the dis then either to obsess over every little detail over and over again.
And back then people were not as demanding. They didn't call demanding a certain room, or balcony type, obsess of getting an ADR 180 day out and complain if they can't.
Or complain because they paid $? and expect that allows them to get whatever they want when they want.
And if Disney doesn't or can't do it, it's Disney's fault and their standards are dropping.
In the end I think it's more the result of rude people thinking they are entitled than Disney dropping their standards.

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

then again...e mail didn't exist back then either so it's hard to blame disney for that.
(see above reason's why I think there's more complaints, that and there's more people, more people means more complaints.)

I concur. I grew up near Disney and have been there hundreds of times over the last 26 years so it's easy for me to see that they are slipping in many areas. It's understandable that some people would be upset about certain changes (don't even get me started on how they ruined Imagination, brought in Mission Space, etc. etc... haha).

perfect example. there's a reason it was changed.. it wasn't working and it wasn't popular. It's not slipping because they change something.
It's changing with the demand of the guest.
what ws MS, Horizons? go back and look at the videos on you tube. there's no way that ride would work today.. you'd be online complaining about how lame, outdated, and boring it was.
Things have to change and Disney is good at recongizing that.
If they didn't they wouldn't be the top of the industry they are now.

.

In the end...we all can go anywhere and find things wrong, and do.
And hey I admit disney isn't perfect but it's sure alot better than some people (not naming anyone specific) here on the dis make it out to be.
Just most places don't have the dis or places like to to read about it
endlessly.
When you can do that, you'll more likely here the bad before the good.
But Disney's good is still the best out there and the best value for my money.
:)

p.s sorry I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

I don't see a big deal about stools. I kind of like them at Peco Bill's so what if they have them else where.
(and we are debating about a rumor not fact)

[mitros]

I must say things were not perfect 15 / 20 years ago. Remember running to Epcot as soon as they opened to make your ADR's at Spaceship Earth? We wasted hours upon hours waiting on those lines to talk via "at&t phone camera" just to make your ADR's. However, the standard of how customers were treated and the "knowledgeable & helpful" staff truly made your vacation. If you had a complaint (which was rare back then) it was addressed immediately! Not waiting until you get home to write numerous emails / snail mails before even getting a response.

And with us, it was just the opposite. We never waited on a line to make those person-to-person dining reservations under SSE. It was always so quick and easy. Go figure. Of course we ALWAYS visited WDW during the off seasons, {when there were off seasons} so perhaps that is what made the difference.

[Colleen27]

VERY good point! I never thought about this.

Parents - what do you do with your small children when the only choice is a stool vs. a chair with a back?

Go elsewhere. Seriously. From the time my kids were out of high chairs until about 5-6 years old, I wouldn't go anywhere that had stools as the only/primary seating option.

I really can't see Disney going to stools. As someone else posted, less comfy chairs, sure. But not stools, which would open up an opportunity for a whole lot of bad press and possibly even liability when a preschooler does what preschoolers do, fidgets and falls off, sustaining an injury in the process.

[mysticorient]

Go elsewhere. Seriously. From the time my kids were out of high chairs until about 5-6 years old, I wouldn't go anywhere that had stools as the only/primary seating option.

I really can't see Disney going to stools. As someone else posted, less comfy chairs, sure. But not stools, which would open up an opportunity for a whole lot of bad press and possibly even liability when a preschooler does what preschoolers do, fidgets and falls off, sustaining an injury in the process.

Agreed. I also think about the elderly. My mother, for example, has COPD and needs to sit down and take breaks. If she were forced to sit on a stool and not be able to sit back and relax, it would limit her ability to enjoy a Disney afternoon.

[safetymom]

They have already removed the chairs with backs at Pecos.

[queenie82]

Agreed. I also think about the elderly. My mother, for example, has COPD and needs to sit down and take breaks. If she were forced to sit on a stool and not be able to sit back and relax, it would limit her ability to enjoy a Disney afternoon.
I don't see the forced issue though. There are benches with backs all over the place? I have an elderly grandmother as well and you just plan ahead and find somewhere she can sit before YOU go and get the food and bring it to her.
I'd go to extra effort like that for her...I'd do anything for her.

[ChrisFL]

I don't see the forced issue though. There are benches with backs all over the place? I have an elderly grandmother as well and you just plan ahead and find somewhere she can sit before YOU go and get the food and bring it to her.
I'd go to extra effort like that for her...I'd do anything for her.

Yes, there are benches with backs all over the place......outside in the heat..thats a problem IMO.

I was thinking about this with a friend of mine walking near the old Odyssey at Epcot last week. Why can't they just open it up for some air conditioning and rest for those who want to, maybe sell some small items...but instead it's off limits until they use it for a special event.

That's one thing I enjoyed about being at Tokyo DisneySea...they have the Teddy Roosevelt lounge with huge leather couches and seats where you feel like royalty. Yes it's a place with food and drinks, but I did not feel rushed or the need to be pushed out. That kind of relaxed environment is becoming harder and harder to find at WDW.

[queenie82]

Yes, there are benches with backs all over the place......outside in the heat..thats a problem IMO.

I was thinking about this with a friend of mine walking near the old Odyssey at Epcot last week. Why can't they just open it up for some air conditioning and rest for those who want to, maybe sell some small items...but instead it's off limits until they use it for a special event.

That's one thing I enjoyed about being at Tokyo DisneySea...they have the Teddy Roosevelt lounge with huge leather couches and seats where you feel like royalty. Yes it's a place with food and drinks, but I did not feel rushed or the need to be pushed out. That kind of relaxed environment is becoming harder and harder to find at WDW.
I just got out my map...I didn't go in there.
My favourite CS was the Cape Cod cook off because it didn't seem to be popular with the Japanese (hence not busy)...lol...and had a ton of seating with clam chowder...yummy!
But seriously......it isn't a fair comparison...the thing with Tokyo is that most popular food is sold in the kiosk/carts and so they don't have the problems found in the US.
PLUS...they don't have a million wheelchair and ECV's all over the place. in fact I didn't see ANY ECV's

Back on topic...not all the benches are in the sun

[Chuck S]

Back on topic...not all the benches are in the sun

Most, but not all, restrooms at WDW have some shaded sitting areas nearby.

[ChrisFL]

I just got out my map...I didn't go in there.
My favourite CS was the Cape Cod cook off because it didn't seem to be popular with the Japanese (hence not busy)...lol...and had a ton of seating with clam chowder...yummy!
But seriously......it isn't a fair comparison...the thing with Tokyo is that most popular food is sold in the kiosk/carts and so they don't have the problems found in the US.
PLUS...they don't have a million wheelchair and ECV's all over the place. in fact I didn't see ANY ECV's

Back on topic...not all the benches are in the sun

Ok, so Disney's response to this is not to keep open more places, like some that are closed way too often (Tomorrowland Noodle Station, and yes, I know it's not truly indoors, but close), they decide to make guests less comfortable so they move faster.

Sorry, but even not being in the sun, it can still be very hot in the summertime on those benches.

[DC7800]

In the end I think it's more the result of rude people thinking they are entitled than Disney dropping their standards.

Disney cutting park hours, closing attractions without replacement, deferring needed maintenance, eliminating parade and Fantasmic performances, and raising prices on reduced quality food and merchandise - to name but five examples - objectively show that Disney has indeed dropped their own standards. It has nothing to do with anyone's personal expectations, demands, or feelings of entitlement when customer unfriendly decisions are made solely in the interest of saving money. It is not completely impossible, perhaps, that you could have found an example of peeling paint somewhere in the Magic Kingdom or Disneyland thirty years ago, but it would have been repainted as a routine matter. It is in the last decade, however, that we have examples of such once routine maintenance being neglected for so long that the wood rots away, and the structure has to be rebuilt or demolished.

Rude people feeling entitled didn't cause Disney to design and build a mistaken theme park that made more money as a parking lot (DCA); Adherence to Disney's own standards would have eliminated the need to now spend $1 billion to address the park's most serious shortcomings. The existence of online forums may give people a place to discuss such matters in detail, but such discussion (or complaining, or unjustified "whining") does not cause the problem - it stems from it. Nor do rude, demanding guests explain why many recent upgraded attractions have been inferior (Journey into Imagination, Stitch, etc.) to the rides/shows they replaced. Sure, when you produce inferior work, be it an attraction, movie, book, or whatever, it's easy just to blame the audience when it bombs, but that doesn't excuse the lack of creativity and effort that went into producing such lackluster results.

more people means more complaints

Only in total numbers,which are meaningless to judge how what your audience/customers think of your product/service. If you run a restaurant and have 1% of your diners complain their food is cold, maybe that's an expected number. Problems happen, somebody may want something free, or whatever. You make it right for that 1% and go on. But if 20-30% or so of everyone dining starts to comment about how their meals seem to have just come out of the freezer, you've got a real problem, and blaming the customers won't make it go away. Ironically it will, though, make your customers go away. Hmm.....what Orlando theme=park operator has resorted to larger and more frequent discounts to try to keep its (overbuilt) resort hotels occupied?

what ws MS, Horizons? go back and look at the videos on you tube. there's no way that ride would work today.. you'd be online complaining about how lame, outdated, and boring it was.
Things have to change and Disney is good at recongizing that.
If they didn't they wouldn't be the top of the industry they are now.

Epcot - particularly Future World - was allowed to become stale. It shouldn't have been a surprise that an attraction about the future might need updating regularly. It absolutely did not need to be bulldozed, It needed a rehab and update like Spaceship Earth and Living with the Land have recieved. If you believe it wouldn't work today, then how do you explain the continued success of the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, It's a Small World, and Spaceship Earth (among others). All have undergone incremental improvements over the years (often not enough, but I digress) to keep things fresh - Horizons essentially sat untouched for almost two decades. Again, the subject matter of the attraction needed attention more often than these other examples. There are some problems with the latest update to Spaceship Earth, but the attraction endures, and so should have Horizons.

Finally, Epcot Center's success was built upon attractions like Horizons, the World of Motion, and Journey into Imagination. Two of those were replaced with thrill rides, which to an extent alienated Epcot's core audience (if you loved the slow omnimover experience of Horizons, Mission Space may not be your cup of tea, and vice-versa). Imagination needed attention, but a rehab which built upon and enhanced the existing attraction. Demolishing an expensive ride and replacing it with a cheaper (shorter) alternative defies logic, even if you only consider it from a "business" perspective (ie., what's the most cost-effective way to update the ride to maintain its popularity, etc.), which Disney does, often with disappointing results.

And hey I admit disney isn't perfect but it's sure alot better than some people (not naming anyone specific) here on the dis make it out to be.
Just most places don't have the dis or places like to to read about it
endlessly.
When you can do that, you'll more likely here the bad before the good.
But Disney's good is still the best out there and the best value for my money.

There are more things than I could possibly list that Disney still does very well or even exceptionally. There is nothing else even remotely like Disney - it is truly something special, with a remarkable and unique history for a company which once knew no bounds. That's exactly why we harp on the problems so much. The decline in standards doesn't at all mean we don't love the place; Just the opposite, and probably too much sometimes, which is why it is so hard to see the direction the place is headed (ultimately circling the toilet). Just how far we are from that point is certainly debatable, but the fact that there has been a steep and worsening decline is objective fact. In short, I love Disney and especially Walt Disney World, I loath what the company has or is becoming.

[Chuck S]

Ok, so Disney's response to this is not to keep open more places, like some that are closed way too often (Tomorrowland Noodle Station, and yes, I know it's not truly indoors, but close), they decide to make guests less comfortable so they move faster.

Sorry, but even not being in the sun, it can still be very hot in the summertime on those benches.

What do you expect them to do about the heat with outside benches? Many are shaded. You can't air condition the outside areas of the park. There are cool seating areas at EPCOT, behind the Fountain View, in the building tat now houses a character meet n greet. There are shaded benches and seating areas all over AK (yes, it's still hot...but again, you can't cool the great outdoors) and there are some covered and cool seating areas at the studios and MK as well.

I really don't see them just replacing all the CS seating with benches, unless the seats are already scheduled to be replaced anyway due to wear and tear. That would be ridiculously expensive just to sell a few more meals. Even so, those seats are for dining, it's not always easy to find a place to sit when you are getting a meal, much less just relaxing.

[diamondpixienc]

I hope this is just a rumor:listen:

[safetymom]

It's not a rumor. It has already happened at Pecos Bill.

[Golf4food]

It's not a rumor. It has already happened at Pecos Bill.

Guess we won't be going back to Peco's Bills, then. Not that we ever did much anyway - we're CHH people mostly. But I have a bad neck/back and cannot sit on anything without a back for very long or I am in extreme pain. I suffer through some of the shows that have benches with no backs but they do cause a lot of pain in the process and breaks for lunch/dinner are what get me through the day. If they take all of the chairs out of the CS locations we'll have to decide to perhaps just eat a TS lunch and leave the park in the late afternoon to have dinner off property where they actually have chair backs...

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Guess we won't be going back to Peco's Bills, then. Not that we ever did much anyway - we're CHH people mostly. But I have a bad neck/back and cannot sit on anything without a back for very long or I am in extreme pain. I suffer through some of the shows that have benches with no backs but they do cause a lot of pain in the process and breaks for lunch/dinner are what get me through the day. If they take all of the chairs out of the CS locations we'll have to decide to perhaps just eat a TS lunch and leave the park in the late afternoon to have dinner off property where they actually have chair backs...



I have to concur about seats with backs.

I tire very easily and simply cannot go in commando mode. I have to sit and rest often. Luckily, I have the most patient hubby on the planet.

At Christmas I was in a scooter because of an ankle injury. The seatback support was magical! I still tired - no way around that. But it was so comfortable --- except for that nasty achilles tendon!

Some of us still want to visit Disney parks even though we can no longer cover the ground we once did. Seats are important....not to mention the wonderful LITTLE visitors who could fall off a bench or stool.

[dizfan]

This one is going to come back to haunt the executive who made this decision.

If Disney does this to many restaurants, we'll start vacationing elsewhere. Sorry, but a family that's been going t Disney parks since the 60's will be forced to go elsewhere.

[yitbos96bb]

I have a hard time believing this...the practicality of replacing maybe 5,000 - 10,000 chairs in all the CS restaurants, making the guests more uncomfortable just to make it so that they'll stay in the restaurant for shorter time? So, at $100 a chair, that $1 million. And what's the point, it's not like guests can't get seats at most CS restaurants.

Disney's not this dumb. Stupid rumor made up by a hater.

SkierPete

Except its already happened at Pecos Bills. No one is sure if this is going to be just in the MK or property wide. They are supposed to be doing Cosmic rays next. And I doubt they pay $100 a chair. Those chairs are $20 tops, ordered in that large bulk.

[yitbos96bb]

I have to concur about seats with backs.

I tire very easily and simply cannot go in commando mode. I have to sit and rest often. Luckily, I have the most patient hubby on the planet.

At Christmas I was in a scooter because of an ankle injury. The seatback support was magical! I still tired - no way around that. But it was so comfortable --- except for that nasty achilles tendon!

Some of us still want to visit Disney parks even though we can no longer cover the ground we once did. Seats are important....not to mention the wonderful LITTLE visitors who could fall off a bench or stool.

Make sure to lodge a complaint at guest services.

[Colleen27]

Make sure to lodge a complaint at guest services.

You know, we don't even eat counter service but if this rumor does turn out to be fact and Cosmic Rays is changed over by the time we're there, I'll absolutely take the time to do just that.

[Chuck S]

You know, we don't even eat counter service but if this rumor does turn out to be fact and Cosmic Rays is changed over by the time we're there, I'll absolutely take the time to do just that.

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

[yitbos96bb]

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

Personally, I think its a stupid policy and if it gets it changed I'll try to help out those who are effected by it. We eat more TS than QS, but we do eat QS. It really is a poorly thought out policy and the only way that it might be reversed is if people stop acting like sheeple, step out of the flock and express their displeasure. I firmly believe that's why the 180 day ADRs returned.

[Golf4food]

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

It could drive more people into TS locations, making the PP have to wait longer for a table or not get one at all? :sad1:

[Colleen27]

Curious as to why? If you don't eat counter service, how would this affect you?

Personally, I think its a stupid policy and if it gets it changed I'll try to help out those who are effected by it. We eat more TS than QS, but we do eat QS. It really is a poorly thought out policy and the only way that it might be reversed is if people stop acting like sheeple, step out of the flock and express their displeasure.

Exactly. This specific change doesn't effect me right now but the short sightedness of some of these decisions does impact the overall guest experience, and the fact that so many people just go along with whatever changes Disney makes sends the message to the bigwigs that they can continue the corner-cutting without upsetting consumers.

And from a more selfish point of view, we don't eat counter service right now. We did in the past, when our trip budgets were tighter, and we could end up in that position again in the future. If that day comes, I don't want to have to worry about seating for my youngest (barely 1 now, so still several years from sitting safely on a stool).

[FireDancer]

I seem to be in the minority but have no problem with this. I have a backless seat in my office because it is good for the core and posture. McDonald's found out long ago that having uncomfortable seats is good for turnover. The reason McDonald's had those hard plastic seats back in the 80's and 90's was because they want you to sit and eat and then get the heck out because you aren't too comfortable.

I don't know if they are still like that because it would require a gun to my head before I walk into a McDonald's but I wouldn't be surprised.

I think there should be some seats with backs for those with disabilities that keep them from using stools but I have no issue with this. I usually sit up without leaning back on the chairs anyway. Most people will not really notice. The vast majority of guests don't go onto message boards and probably won't even noticed the change because they haven't been there in 5 years and can't remember what the chairs were like when they were there back then.

[Chuck S]

Exactly. This specific change doesn't effect me right now but the short sightedness of some of these decisions does impact the overall guest experience, and the fact that so many people just go along with whatever changes Disney makes sends the message to the bigwigs that they can continue the corner-cutting without upsetting consumers.

And from a more selfish point of view, we don't eat counter service right now. We did in the past, when our trip budgets were tighter, and we could end up in that position again in the future. If that day comes, I don't want to have to worry about seating for my youngest (barely 1 now, so still several years from sitting safely on a stool).

But there are other options that could, if they feel forced to not switch out the chairs.

For instance, if Pecos Bill's saw a 10% increase in sales after the switch, then Cosmic Ray's is also under pressure to match it. Now, if this rumor is true, and they were planning to switch CosRay over to stool type seating, but are now barraged with guest complaints about the stools, what are their options?


Reduce overhead and operating expenses.

Fewer CMs to prepare, serve, take orders and clean tables.

Reduce air conditioning and power consumption. Save power by eliminating the "show" and filling that area with seats.

Reduce food costs by further lowering quality and reducing available selection.

Increase cash prices even more, and further increase the DDP costs. $4.50 beverages, anyone?

Eliminate the "fixins."

Which would you choose?

[tjkraz]

...the fact that so many people just go along with whatever changes Disney makes sends the message to the bigwigs that they can continue the corner-cutting without upsetting consumers.

I resent the implication that those in favor of the move are simply lemmings towing the company line. As I've said repeatedly, I was very frustrated with our inability to find seats at several QS restaurants earlier this year. And if this move helps get people out of the restaurant quicker, I'm all for it.

As is the case with many rumors, we never seem to get the big picture before folks start with the knee-jerk reactions. Among the important unanswered questions are:

1. How many restaurants are slated for this conversion?
2. Will all of the seats be replaced with stools or just some?

Many Disney restaurants have booths and I personally doubt that the booths are being ripped-out in favor of stools. And I would also question whether locations which are rarely/never full will be switched-over. There's no financial or guest-service justification for adding stools to a location with low crowds.

I would swear that we have eaten at a Disney restaurant with stools, but I can't quite put my finger on it. My gut says that it was Pecos Bill's, but our last meal there was in early 2008. So if that's the place, stools have been in place for more than a year now. :confused3 If it was some other location during our June trip, the presence of the stools didn't even register until reading this thread.

BTW, the "stools" that I recall were square platforms about 24x24" in size sitting the same height off the floor as a normal chair. We aren't talking about uncomfortable 3' high round bar stools.

[Chuck S]

I would swear that we have eaten at a Disney restaurant with stools, but I can't quite put my finger on it. My gut says that it was Pecos Bill's, but our last meal there was in early 2008. So if that's the place, stools have been in place for more than a year now. :confused3 If it was some other location during our June trip, the presence of the stools didn't even register until reading this thread.

BTW, the "stools" that I recall were square platforms about 24x24" in size sitting the same height off the floor as a normal chair. We aren't talking about uncomfortable 3' high round bar stools.

I believe Pecos Bill's had those type of stools in that timeframe, too. I only remember eating there once, and it was either 2007 or 2008, and I seem to remember sitting on a stool...no big deal. And I know I sat on a stool for our Picnic in the Park meal at AK.

[Colleen27]

I resent the implication that those in favor of the move are simply lemmings towing the company line. As I've said repeatedly, I was very frustrated with our inability to find seats at several QS restaurants earlier this year. And if this move helps get people out of the restaurant quicker, I'm all for it.

As is the case with many rumors, we never seem to get the big picture before folks start with the knee-jerk reactions. Among the important unanswered questions are:

1. How many restaurants are slated for this conversion?
2. Will all of the seats be replaced with stools or just some?

Many Disney restaurants have booths and I personally doubt that the booths are being ripped-out in favor of stools. And I would also question whether locations which are rarely/never full will be switched-over. There's no financial or guest-service justification for adding stools to a location with low crowds.

I would swear that we have eaten at a Disney restaurant with stools, but I can't quite put my finger on it. My gut says that it was Pecos Bill's, but our last meal there was in early 2008. So if that's the place, stools have been in place for more than a year now. :confused3 If it was some other location during our June trip, the presence of the stools didn't even register until reading this thread.

BTW, the "stools" that I recall were square platforms about 24x24" in size sitting the same height off the floor as a normal chair. We aren't talking about uncomfortable 3' high round bar stools.

First of all, this is all hypothetical, which is why I've prefaced so much of what I've said with "If this turns out to be true..." But that's half the fun of these boards, isn't it - to speculate and try to understand the behind-the-scenes thinking of running something as massive and fabulous as Disney?

I don't think people who are in favor of this (or any other specific) change Disney makes are lemmings. The "sheeple" comment that I quoted was pretty specific, I thought, to the people who hate the changes being made but accept them because "its Disney". I really don't understand that - silently accepting a lesser experience for the same (or more) travel dollars. If some place that I give as much of my money to as I do to Disney makes a change I don't like, I'm going to voice my opinion on that change. Not on a message board (well, not *only* on a message board :rotfl:), but to the people charged with customer relations at that business.

Second, I don't oppose the idea of less comfortable chairs. Finding seating is one of the reasons I dislike and ultimately quit eating counter service meals at Disney. But you can find some pretty darned uncomfortable chairs with backs. Case in point - the metal cafe-style seating at Main Street Bakery. It certainly isn't comfortable enough to encourage you to linger. In fact, the seating there is uncomfortable enough to discourage lingering over one's meal to enjoy the air conditioning. But those chairs still have backs. My objection is specifically to the backless seating, which is just a step too far IMO. Go with less comfortable chairs to move people in and out quicker, but do it in a way that makes sense for your target demographic, which includes a lot of young kids. Cosmic Rays is a great example - instead of stools, those uncomfortable, retro-modern molded plastic chairs would be uncomfortable *and* safer than stools for toddlers/preschoolers, plus they'd fit the theme of the place.

I do think you're right about Pecos Bills having stools all along, which is why in my first couple of posts on this thread I was (and remain) skeptical as to this being a property-wide strategy. IIRC from our first family trip in 2005, the stools at the few open tables at Pecos Bills were why we walked over to the seating area of the then-closed El Pirata to find a table.

[Colleen27]

I seem to be in the minority but have no problem with this. I have a backless seat in my office because it is good for the core and posture. McDonald's found out long ago that having uncomfortable seats is good for turnover. The reason McDonald's had those hard plastic seats back in the 80's and 90's was because they want you to sit and eat and then get the heck out because you aren't too comfortable.

I don't know if they are still like that because it would require a gun to my head before I walk into a McDonald's but I wouldn't be surprised.


Wandering off on a tangent...

Our McDs has taken the exact opposite strategy - they have comfy chairs, free newspapers, a few armchairs in view of the kids' play area, free refills, free wi-fi. As a consequence, there are several groups that meet there - a moms of preschoolers playgroup, a senior citizens book club, etc. According to the owner, who is a friend of our family, he's done much, much better with a dining area that encourages repeat visitors than he did with the in-and-out policy. And it has worked on me; I've been known to pick up Happy Meals and let the kids burn off some energy in the play structure on cold winter days, while I sit with a cup of coffee and my laptop even though I don't eat McD's food at all.

I know none of that doesn't really applies to Disney, but I just thought it was an interesting note to your observations of McD's seating strategies.

[FireDancer]

Wandering off on a tangent...

Our McDs has taken the exact opposite strategy - they have comfy chairs, free newspapers, a few armchairs in view of the kids' play area, free refills, free wi-fi. As a consequence, there are several groups that meet there - a moms of preschoolers playgroup, a senior citizens book club, etc. According to the owner, who is a friend of our family, he's done much, much better with a dining area that encourages repeat visitors than he did with the in-and-out policy. And it has worked on me; I've been known to pick up Happy Meals and let the kids burn off some energy in the play structure on cold winter days, while I sit with a cup of coffee and my laptop even though I don't eat McD's food at all.

I know none of that doesn't really applies to Disney, but I just thought it was an interesting note to your observations of McD's seating strategies.

This is a good example of the cafe culture and works very well...outside of an amusement park. In the park they want you to get your food, eat, and get the heck out. In the cafe culture there is an emphasis placed on lingering and drawing in crowds. It is quite different.

[DC7800]

Now, if this rumor is true, and they were planning to switch CosRay over to stool type seating, but are now barraged with guest complaints about the stools, what are their options?

They maintain their existing standards. You don't compromise the guest experience for a marginal (at best) increase in profit. Maybe that means the typical guest pays an average 50 cents more for their meal ($4.50 beverages is way too much; I get your point, but the difference isn't really that big), or perhaps you just have to accept very slightly higher operating costs for Cosmic Rays than Pecos Bill (pleasing the customer through a pleasant dining environment is far more important, in the overall scheme of things, than nickel & dime them to death or aggravating them about a lot of little things they hardly notice, but which add up to create a less than "magical" day in the park).

You can only go on cheapening the guest experience for so long - and we are way past that point already - before they notice and dine (or vacation) elsewhere.

[DC7800]

In the park they want you to get your food, eat, and get the heck out.

Why?

Aside from a capacity issue (which is actually only a problem during the lunch rush - after early afternoon, there are plenty of seats available) once you have entered the park and used a days purchased admission media, the only way Disney has to make more money off you is by selling you food/beverages or merchandise. They don't make a cent from you riding Space Mountain. Now, they really and desperately would like to spend a lot of your time in the many shops in the park buying things and spending money (the rationale behind FastPass), but if you're not doing that, maybe you'll buy something else to eat.

[Chuck S]

Why?

Aside from a capacity issue (which is actually only a problem during the lunch rush - after early afternoon, there are plenty of seats available) once you have entered the park and used a days purchased admission media, the only way Disney has to make more money off you is by selling you food/beverages or merchandise. They don't make a cent from you riding Space Mountain. Now, they really and desperately would like to spend a lot of your time in the many shops in the park buying things and spending money (the rationale behind FastPass), but if you're not doing that, maybe you'll buy something else to eat.

Not exactly true, I've seen Cosmic Ray's packed at dinner time, especially during the transition between park closing and MVMCP.

Even a 10% increase in overall profit is a substantial amount of $ for Disney...if the change would increase it that much. Several thousand $ per day. Not an amount to be taken lightly in todays economy.

[FireDancer]

Why?

Aside from a capacity issue

100% for the capacity issue. If someone walks into a restaurant and can't find a place to eat they won't purchase any food. With the addition of a CS free dining package the CS restaurants will start getting busy even at non peak hours so they want you in and out. It isn't for the DP people, they already paid, it will be so that those not on DP can walk in and find a place to sit.

I have the abdominal dexterity to sit without a back on my chair so I don't care. I also spend as little time as humanly possible eating while in the parks so on both accounts I won't let this enter my mind let alone ruin my trip.

[TDSAXX]

I don't see Disney making a whole lot more money even if they do get people in and out quicker. Think about it. If you go to McDonald's and the place is packed you leave and go to BK. If you go to Peco Bill's and it's packed you go to Columbia House or you ride Splash and come back an hour later. Disney is still going to get your money. Not many people are going to leave the park or go hungry all day.

[monkeyknuckler]

I can't wait for this to find its way to TS restaurants: "Excuse me, Albert, could we get another stool for our table, please?"
"Yes Sir, right away".

[Experiment_626]

the fact that there has been a steep and worsening decline is objective fact.It is not "objective fact" -- it is your subjective opinion, which is the opposite of "objective fact."

This is like saying "It was literally raining cats and dogs!"

SSB

[ChrisFL]

It is not "objective fact" -- it is your subjective opinion, which is the opposite of "objective fact."

This is like saying "It was literally raining cats and dogs!"

SSB

If Disney charges $6 and gives you 4 chicken strips, then a year later they charge $6 and give you 3, would that not be objective fact that you get less for your money?

If Disney replaced seats with backs with stools that don't have backs, and charge the same...ahem, raise ticket prices, wouldn't that be getting less (comfort) for your money?

[tjkraz]

If Disney replaced seats with backs with stools that don't have backs, and charge the same...ahem, raise ticket prices, wouldn't that be getting less (comfort) for your money?

Depends upon who you ask. I suspect the person eating their dinner from a tray perched on top of a garbage can or at an outside table in 90+ degree heat doesn't really care whether there are chair backs or not.

[WDSearcher]

If Disney charges $6 and gives you 4 chicken strips, then a year later they charge $6 and give you 3, would that not be objective fact that you get less for your money?
That depends. What is inflation in the rest of the country like? Are the other people who used to charge $6 for 4 chicken strips still giving you 4, or are they giving you 3 as well?

Disney does not exist in a vacuum. If no one else in the world changes their prices and Disney does, then yeah ... I'm getting less for my money at Disney than anywhere else. But if things are more expensive everywhere, then I need to look at the changes in that context.

If Disney replaced seats with backs with stools that don't have backs, and charge the same...ahem, raise ticket prices, wouldn't that be getting less (comfort) for your money?
Depends on how comfortable I was in the chairs. If they gave me a solid plastic chair with a back that also had arms on it that barely allowed my Pooh-shaped body to sit down, vs. a sturdy square stool where I could ... ahem, spread out, then I'm suddenly far more comfortable than I was before.

:earsboy:

[yitbos96bb]

I believe Pecos Bill's had those type of stools in that timeframe, too. I only remember eating there once, and it was either 2007 or 2008, and I seem to remember sitting on a stool...no big deal. And I know I sat on a stool for our Picnic in the Park meal at AK.

The podcasters were pretty certain Pecos Bills stools were new... and they DO go more often than most of us. Corey I think reported it.

[yitbos96bb]

That depends. What is inflation in the rest of the country like? Are the other people who used to charge $6 for 4 chicken strips still giving you 4, or are they giving you 3 as well?

Disney does not exist in a vacuum. If no one else in the world changes their prices and Disney does, then yeah ... I'm getting less for my money at Disney than anywhere else. But if things are more expensive everywhere, then I need to look at the changes in that context.


Depends on how comfortable I was in the chairs. If they gave me a solid plastic chair with a back that also had arms on it that barely allowed my Pooh-shaped body to sit down, vs. a sturdy square stool where I could ... ahem, spread out, then I'm suddenly far more comfortable than I was before.

:earsboy:

Inflation STILL decreases the value... it doesn't matter if it does it for everyone. THE only aspect inflation plays is whether its a natural economic increase OR the company is greedy or poorly run.... or a bit of both.

[safetymom]

They used to have some stools. Now there are no chairs and they are all stools. I can remember looking for a table that had the chairs. I will report back when the chairs at Cosmic Rays go to stools.

[rie'smom]

But...this only works if the seating capacity is filled. Every time we go, even during Free Dining, we have had no trouble finding tables at any CS restaurant we've eaten at.

Oh well, I guess I wouldn't put it past the suits doing this...I just don't see the practicality of it.

SkierPete

The suits are not known for practicality of their ideas. It's bottom line.

:lmao: I agree. But it's not really haters, more whinner's. SInce you have only 26 posts, I'll assume your new to the boards....You'll find that if Disney changes ANYTHING, you'll find people here on the boards complaining about it. And it's always Disney is dropping it's standards.
Those people will still go, and make it sound like 10, 15 or 20 years ago everything was perfect...nobody ever waited in lines, you could walk up to any resturant and sit and eat without an ADR, the place was perfect everywhere, the food was way better....ect.

Not everything was better:

I remember having to stay offsite because it took 1.5 years to get an onsite hotel reservation. The first one we were able to get was the Golf Resort-yippee:rolleyes:

Only 1 park-MK

Most, but not all, restrooms at WDW have some shaded sitting areas nearby.


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:Sorry, when I read this I thought at first you meant to go sit in the bathroom for shade.

I seem to be in the minority but have no problem with this. I have a backless seat in my office because it is good for the core and posture. McDonald's found out long ago that having uncomfortable seats is good for turnover. The reason McDonald's had those hard plastic seats back in the 80's and 90's was because they want you to sit and eat and then get the heck out because you aren't too comfortable.

I don't know if they are still like that because it would require a gun to my head before I walk into a McDonald's but I wouldn't be surprised.

I think there should be some seats with backs for those with disabilities that keep them from using stools but I have no issue with this. I usually sit up without leaning back on the chairs anyway. Most people will not really notice. The vast majority of guests don't go onto message boards and probably won't even noticed the change because they haven't been there in 5 years and can't remember what the chairs were like when they were there back then.

Can you just hear the sniping? " I saw someone at Pecos Bills sitting in a chair with a back and I know they did not have a disability." Chuck and safetymom, get ready.

They used to have some stools. Now there are no chairs and they are all stools. I can remember looking for a table that had the chairs. I will report back when the chairs at Cosmic Rays go to stools.

Sorry, this is OT- You're grand babies are beautiful!

[meowmarie]

Well I hope the rumors aren't true BUT I can see two sides to this story.

I think Disney is probably thinking more about customer satisfaction here, and less about profits. I could be wrong but let me explain my thinking. I don't know how much extra profit they could make by doing this. I mean we are a captive audience, we have to eat somewhere lol. Even if it gets people out the door quicker, the same number of people still have to eat at some point, right? Especially if they are on the dining plan. They are pushing the dining plans so hard and giving it away for free as well, it's not like they are going to lose money on those people, they've already paid for the food so they're going to find somewhere to eat. People will either wait or go to another CS I would think. If someone is going to leave the park to find somewhere to eat, chances are they would have done that anyways. If it's about profits, it's probably more about getting people out the door to spend their money elsewhere in Disney, rather than the profits of the actual restaurant IMO.

I think getting people out the door quicker would help customer satisfaction. I had a hard time finding a place to sit at several places on our trip last year. Some people were just sitting in the air conditioning and resting and not even ordering anything, or just a soda. Or maybe they had already ate and were just hanging out longer. That was frustrating since I was standing there holding a tray of food getting cold lol. So honestly if it deters people from doing that or getting out the door quicker I'm all for it. Yeah I'd prefer to have chairs with backs, but I can see their point.

Another thing to consider is the plus size crowd. When those chairs with backs have the "wrap around" or curved style back, sometimes larger people just can't sit in them. Trust me I know, and I'm not even that big. So I think stools would help in that aspect, and at least they're padded. At least they are at Pecos Bills.

As for young children, I assume they are going to keep the rolling high chairs so that should work for them. I do feel badly for those that NEED the chair backs. I am assuming Disney would keep some "real chairs" that you could request, how could they not? And some places do have some booths, hopefully they'll at least keep those. (And hopefully you won't have to make ADR's for them! :lmao:)

The bottom line is, I hope the pros out-weight the cons with the stools. Pecos Bills was usually busy on our trip last year, they had stools then, so the stools don't seem to be bothering people enough to stay away from there. OH and I did find an interesting pic from Pecos Bills circa 1985... look, stools! lol And omg they look way less comfortable that the ones now. :headache:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2533/3846975267_468fbfa101.jpg