DEBATE: Send em back

[TiggerFreak]

Maybe those of us who are upset with the rumored change in the refillable mug policy should pack an old mug up in a box and mail it off to Al Weiss or Paul Pressler, along with a note expressing your disappointment.

Remember "It's A Wonderful Life?"

Picture thousands of old (dirty!) refillable mugs cascading out of mail bags....

Woulldn't that be a hoot;)

[OnWithTheShow]

And you are upset because they are going to keep you from abusing the system???

[Testtrack321]

Yeah

The thing is that you can use them at your hotels for the stay, but this has been in effect for a while here.

Lets just hope the money saved is for the theme parks, not Esiner's and Presslers pocketbooks.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
And you are upset because they are going to keep you from abusing the system???

Why do people keep saying this? Many...many people were told that the mugs were good for life. The only people abusing the system are those that use their own cups. Something that I've never seen but I don't doubt happens from time to time.

[d-r]

Given that each resort is pretty different and you are liable to hear something different from any CM you talk to - I never knew that there was an "official" policy of any sort for refillable mugs. Bear in mind that I have never purchased or used a refillable mug and can't imagine having to keep up with it, but just from my own thinking I wouldn't have assumed, regardless of what I was told, heard or read on the internet, that $15 (or whatever it costs) would buy me free drinks at WDW resorts for the rest of my life. Aren't the mugs priced differently at different resorts and they are transferable - why would they be lifetime? Again I'm not disputing that people were ever told by come CM's that it was lifetime or whatnot, just that I wouldn't have taken it as any sort of policy. Since there was never an actual policy I don't think I would be that upset now that there is. Like I said though we've never bought one and don't plan too, but it does seem from various posts here and there that the refillable mug issue is abused frequently.

Melissa

[EUROPA]

So now we can't trust the CM's that work at Disney anymore? Has the service industry become that bad? Why is it so far fetched to think that 10-15 dollars would get you free refills when you bring the mug back to that resort? Many convience stores sell mugs for Coffee and Softdrinks that can be refilled at a reduced rate for as long as you own the mug. The only differnce is that Disney gets the bulk of the money up front. Both are designed to do the same thing to get you back in the food court or the store. I'm betting that Disney played the numbers for years and thought that most families don't go on Vacation every year to Disney, go to the exact same resort, and remember to bring those mugs they bought last year. They were hoping that you remember that you did have a mug last year and you would get another one.

So if you were told they were good for life then your not cheating the system. If you were told something else. take a mug to another resort that does not allow switching(All-Stars) or you use your own cup then you are cheating.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by thedscoop
I'm going to endeavor to find out the official policy. I'll cite the source. And, hopefully, then people (on either side the official policy falls) won't use contradicting CM's as a rationalization.

I don't know all the tax laws, but I'll bet the Tax Man wouldn't give a rodent's rear if I told him that the local IRS guy told me it was okay not to report as income those 'gifts' from clients.

I'll let you know where this journey leads.

So let me get this straight.... now that Disney has announced a new Mug policy which they are only going to allow mugs to be used for length of stay only and it was in the Orlando Sentinel your going to find out if there a mug policy that only allows you to use the mug for the length of stay? ( Don't work to hard on that one)

IRS...great comparison Apples to Bears. For the next one you should try to at least make them both fruits.

[Peter Pirate]

So let me get this straight...Oh, I get it...:rolleyes:
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[paradefreak]

I really don't get all the upset over such a minor(!) issue. I bought a mug once and it was a complete hassle. I see people in line for the buses in the mornings with their mugs and think, "Are they going to lug that around all day?" Just give me the one time use cup or disposable bottle.

Really everyone - is all this elevated blood pressure worth a coke?

[TiggerFreak]

So let me get this straight...Oh, I get it...

Man, maybe I don't get it:confused:

I was just kidding folks.

Look, the way I see it is that if they start tellin people that the mugs are only good for the length of stay, all those unsold mugs will start overflowing into the utiladors and we'll see them change the official policy back to the unofficial one of yesterweek.

It sure would be a sight if it happened though,
"Everytime a bell rings ...."

[EUROPA]

Like I've said in previous post we buy new mugs when we go back. I just got tired of people saying that other people were cheating the system or stealing when in specific cases they were not.


If we agree that the existing (or even newly existing) policy is that refillable mugs cannot be reused on subsequent visits then I guess we also now agree that using "newly purchased" refillable mugs is now officially cheating.


Yes I agree with that if . I don't have a problem with the new policy per say. I don't think it will be a good idea though if they do install bar code scanners. I do think that they will make people mad who were told the mugs were good for life and now they are not.

What would you think if the CM's kept telling people the Mugs were good for life even if the customer challanged them on the policy by pointing out the new signs they have installed? What if the Kitchen manger told you this? What aout the resort manager?

[EUROPA]

Happens at work all the time...what take 10 emails to solve can get solved with one face to face visit and a lot less time.

[HB2K]

Originally posted by thedscoop
I'm going to endeavor to find out the official policy. I'll cite the source. And, hopefully, then people (on either side the official policy falls) won't use contradicting CM's as a rationalization.

I don't know all the tax laws, but I'll bet the Tax Man wouldn't give a rodent's rear if I told him that the local IRS guy told me it was okay not to report as income those 'gifts' from clients.

I'll let you know where this journey leads.

No but when a person represents a product as one thing and it's really another it's at minimum mis-representation, and at maximum fraud.

And to put the blame on someone who is upset because they purchased one thing, and now are being told another is absurd. The blame falls squarely on the CMs. It's not my responsibility to verify what my CM tells me is the actual policy.

Come on Scoop.

[Another Voice]

Wow, I’ve never read someone actually advocate lethal injection for ripping off those tags from a mattress…. These lawyers must be contained.

What I find very amusing (and very in character for the company these days) is they are going to spend all the time and money to install the bar code reading equipment, develop the software, create bar coded mugs and cups just to really cheese off their best customers. The amount the spend on Coke products is staggering, but it’s less than they spend on water and the percentage lost The Evil Thieving Cup Horde is trivial. They can not possible recover the cost of installing the equipment and the additional operational costs. How many guests can’t answer “how many in your group?” – and now they have to scan a soda cup? The line will be backed up for hours.

And all this from a company that just drop two million in cash to buy the movie rights to the “Underdog” cartoon.

Simply amazing.

[DVC-Landbaron]

How many guests can’t answer “how many in your group?” – and now they have to scan a soda cup? Voice!!! You bust me up!!! :bounce: :crazy: :bounce:

[airlarry!]

Every comment about coke for life for $15 or cheating or tax laws or spoiled angry guests may well be humorous, funny, or even in some cases, hilarious.

However, since the issue is a $9 mug somebody bought because the CM said it was good for every visit TO THAT SPECIFIC RESORT, then all these jokes are actually irrelevant.

When somebody, anybody can find the policy that said in 1995 that the refillable resort-labeled mugs were only good for that visit, then I for one will shut up about this rather small issue. Heck, I will personally join in on the jokes.

No offense, my friends, but are Europa and I ;) the only person in this universe that has walked into an establishment that sells expensive refillable-for-life mugs? It's not like it is an original idea. Please tell me other people have noticed movie chains, pizza joints, etc. etc. with free or discounted refill offers if one buys an overpriced plastic mug. And in this case, a pitifully small 12 oz one to boot.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by airlarry!

No offense, my friends, but am I the only person in this universe that has walked into an establishment that sells expensive refillable-for-life mugs? It's not like it is an original idea. Please tell me other people have noticed movie chains, pizza joints, etc. etc. with free or discounted refill offers if one buys an overpriced plastic mug. And in this case, a pitifully small 12 oz one to boot.

Hello...see my ealier post on this thread.

[hopemax]

Like airlarry, I hope that the looking for official policy includes past years longer than the last 1 or 2. :D

I have a feeling that what happened is:

Refillable mugs were introduced, refills for life weren't prohibited. "If bringing a mug back is going to make a guest happy, big deal, we're going to make a fortune off them in a billion other ways, let them have this crumb." But there was no "official" yes or no policy. Then the inevitable management turnover, coupled with the belt-tightening, brought in new people who had a different opinion of what was good for business. And since there was never an official policy they could institute their own policy.

However, just for conversation's sake, check out what Holiday World's opinion of free pop is (and sunscreen):

Holiday World (http://www.gettheloop.com/loopmay2/loop033.html#1)

ooh, I just found out another local type park Lake Compounce also has free pop now.

And I found an interview with the owner of Holiday World about why free pop: http://www.coasterbuzz.com/news/news.asp?NewsID=3159

CB: Tell me about free soda. Why did you do it, how do you pay for it and what has the response been from the public? This is normally a high-margin item for most parks. Are you moving the income to something else or letting it go?

WK: The primary reason for free unlimited soft drinks was strategic. We wanted to do something that would set us apart from the larger, "corporate" theme parks. We believe that it has worked very well. The public has responded very positively. Park guests frequently stop me in the park and say, "Thank you for the free drinks." The year we introduced free unlimited soft drinks was also the year we added The Legend. We took the general admission price up $4.00 that year. Part of that increase was for The Legend and part was for free unlimited soft drinks. We've been very happy with the results.

Ah yes, the ol' perception vs. reality...

[Planogirl]

I bought one that was good for life from a convenience store but I got tired of it. ;)

OK, so we'll just stop and once again lug bottles of soft drinks from the local Publix to our room. No more trips in the morning with my refillable mug to get ... hot water! I like my own tea in the morning but it's not worth the money so I'll just switch back to soft drinks.

No high blood pressure here. :D But I do wish that Disney would put coffeemakers in the rooms. :(

[d-r]

Hey y'all -

I don't think this is a personal thing or something to be upset about, but then as Melissa said I've never gotten one so maybe I don't get it or something.

But I'm stuck on what Melissa said about the resorts - we know that they function somewhat autonomously as indpendent budget units. I am pretty sure that the mugs cost different amounts at different resorts - not sure but I think so. Doesn't that make you think that the different resorts are handling these mugs at a local level? Why is there the idea that there was some wdw-wide "policy" that has changed?

I suspect that there were different "policies" at different resorts, and for that matter under different managers at a given resort during different time frames, or even for different cms at a given resort. Someone may have been told one thing at the wilderness lodge and somebody else was told something else at port orleans - and what they were both told was "right."

I think it was the case that if you bought one at one all-stars you could use it at any all stars, or if you bought one at port orleans you could use it at dixie landings. Well, doesn't that seem like what the resort "units" are? I think these are seen as "perks" of a resort and left to the discretion of the resort. Likewise, it seems to me that the news story was about one of the water parks, and I would guess that how that water park wants to handle soft drinks is up to that water park.

Anyway, more power and all that-

DR

[KNWVIKING]

Okay, show of hands.... Due to the end of Free Coke for Life, how many of us have canceled our next visit,will stay off-property,not buy AP's or LOS's, not eat or drink on property,not buy plush,sell your DVC, unload your DISney stock, only go to Universal,Busch and Seaworld,etc,etc..... We're goin' show Disney that without Free Coke for Life we're not going to spend a dime !

I personnally was told lifetime at three resorts.Am I happy about the new changes-or enforcement of what always was, no. Is it going to change my vacation or spending habits at WDW-absolutely not. So I guess people like me are mostly to blame when WDW does little things like this because we keep going and spending.

[Tannerman]

Originally posted by TiggerFreak
Remember "It's A Wonderful Life?"

Picture thousands of old (dirty!) refillable mugs cascading out of mail bags....

That was "Miracle on 34th Street".

Also, if you want to save some money on drinks, just camp at Ft. Wilderness and bring your own beverages :)

[DisneyKidds]

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Car #1 says - 'It's only a freaking mug!'

Car #3 says - 'It's an ominous symptom of the underlying disease that threatens the very fabric of Disney!'

Discuss..............................

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Was away for a few days and all I can see fit to do on this one is stir the muck ;).

[Bstanley]

As a point of interest, the Orlando Sentinel article was describing the bar-coded mugs/apparatus that had been installed at Typhoon Lagoon - and then speculated that it might be installed at the resorts because "some Disney World employees" say so.

Oh, kinda like all the new monorails that are being built based on the say so from virtually every WDW bus driver I've ever spoken with?

It was my understanding that each of the Resorts was a 'profit center', in other words they manage their own bottom line without gross interference from the corporate food chain. My experiences at Disney resorts have demonstrated that these guys still 'get' The Magic. They are in continuous contact with their Guests and understand the impact of such seemingly insignificant decisions made by corporate drones who aren't at the pointy end of the stick. I cannot imagine a resort manager going along with this program, it just doesn't make 'cents'.

Perhaps it makes 'cents' at the Water Parks where locals visit 32 times a summer, but not at the resorts.

[April76]

I don't have anything enlightening or witty to say about any of this.

BUT -- I would like to say that I feel offended when someone makes a statement that refers to people who bring back their mugs to the correct resort (after being told in no uncertain terms that they could) and use it on subsequent visits as "cheating" or "stealing".

I have asked a CM who was selling mugs at the register about the policy (several CM's at the same resort on several trips)... (by the way, I consider this person a company representative, placed in a position to give guests information on mug policy) -- I was NEVER told "length of stay", always "forever".

Should I have pursued this and asked for their manager, and then the resort manager, and then someone higher? Should I have asked for it in writing? I made an effort to follow the rules.

I realize that you can get "misinformation" from some CM's, but when a guest has tried several times to make sure they're doing the right thing, I don't think they should be made to feel like a criminal.

Okay -- now I feel better..... let the debate continue! ;)

[DisOrBust]

I also have been told SEVERAL times by resort CMs that the mugs are good for repeat visits. OThers have reported that CMs have made positive comments to them when they "see" an old mug design with a repeat visitor. I haven't checked but I would think this new policy would be a big deal amoung DVCers.

I also am tired of people accusing others of cheating WDW. How does this accusation reflect on WDW meeting and exceeding customer expectations when the acusation is made by a WDW CM on THIS board!

Once again this is a reflection of a bad management/bean counter decision. I can't believe they will save enough moneyfor the amount of disatisfaction it can cause some as seen here on this board.

Maybe because we have never brought back mugs that I say this but...I believe this horse is a NO CODE, l;)

[TiggerFreak]

Thanks Tannerman.
No wonder nobody thought it was a joke.
I'm getting so old I can't keep my movie memories straight.

I just hpoe they don't start putting fare boxes on the DTS buses.
Can you imagine the tumult that would cause;)

Tell you what, when we go in October, we will take all 7 of our mugs and if they give us any guff I'll climb a table in Roaring Forks and go on a soft drink strike until management changes the policy:p

Like I and many others have said, unenforcable policies die in out in the trenches.

[DisOrBust]

Scoop, I haven't "heard" of anyone yet who was told face to face that they CAN NOT use their mugs at any of the resorts. So I don't believe anyone has been "cheating" by your definition....yet. As far as I am aware at this point this policy is speculation/rumor (then again I am usually the last to know).

I believe the mugs at Typhoon Lagoon were always useable on day of purchase only and have always had a bar code on them.

The AP issue you bring up is a legitmate example of people trying to beat the system. Disney could easily eliminate this by asking for proof of AP on check in. In the 4 Xs I have used an AP rate I have never been asked for it. I also assume they know I have one from their computer database which should also eliminate anyone trying to beat the system.

In my heart, which yes rides in car #3, I bellieve if this change is legit it is a direct reflection on some poor soul who had to come up with a way of meeting an already tight bottom line. It goes along the lines of the CMS responsible for opening locked carsbeing eliminated. Then again what do I know.:confused:

[April76]

Thedscoop --- thanks... I wasn't pointing to anyone specific on this thread; but I have seen numerous posts along this subject that definitely indicated that anyone who brought back their mugs was either cheating, stealing, or just plain cheap.

I like to think of it as a good investment! ;)


I do wish that the company did a better job of setting policy guidelines and then being CLEAR about what they were (and enforce them - ie. the AP discounts, etc.)

There will always be folks who try to beat the system to save a few dollars... I think the company would do better to pursue other areas before worrying about mugs.

It also seems that as they eliminate some of the small relatively inexpensive perks, it makes people more determined to "take" things they aren't entitled to.

[aalan]

when i first heard about the new policy, i sent off an email to disney guest relations urging them to think this decision through. after thinking about the whole deal the past couple of weeks, i do still believe that its something they shouldnt change, but if they do, its not that big a deal. i think of the mugs as a small, but very real perk for staying on disney grounds (this is someone who drinks lots of diet coke). i'd like to think that the real reason the mugs were introduced in the lst place was convenience, more so than $$$$, but i kinda doubt it. and i bet the reason diz is thinking about changing the rules has more to do with $$$$ than convenience or guest relations. sigh. i will still vacation at wdw, but if they keep chipping away at things like mugs and early entry, who knows how many people will still vacation there?

[Kay1]

I just want to vouch for the people who were told they can reuse the mugs and are now called cheaters. Several year ago at DxL, my son asked for a mug because of the Brer characters. I told the CM we were on our way home but would be returning in a few weeks and asked if we could bring it back. She said, sure.

Another time, we were on a patched-together trip and were considering a PO mug. I asked the CM if we could use it at the other resorts. She told me they had just had a meeting about this subject and she wanted to ask her manager. The manger said , yes, we could use the mug at any resort that had a food court.

Some people say, well, did you really think you could pay $9 and get free soda at Disney for life? Well, personally, I wasn't sure, and that's why I asked. I am following the company policy as it was explained to me by the only company representatives available to me. That makes me a cheater how?

[DisneyKidds]

Cough, cough (all those ruffled feathers in the air caught in my throat you know) ;).

I don't think anyone is saying that if a person bought a mug, was told they could use it on subsequent trips or at other resorts, and did so that they were cheating. You inquire, you are told something, and you follow it - not a problem. I see the same thing happen with other WDW situations (parking and transportation for example) where someone might do what a CM tells them they can do, even though someone else feels it is against the rules. Are they cheating? I don't think so. People need to be able to rely on what CM's tell them. As has been pointed out, they are the company reps.

However, I think there are some very grey areas. I think that I have seen a sign or two associated with these mugs that says they are good for your 'length of stay'. In such a case, perhaps it is stretching the rules a little to reuse the mug. However, most guests expect the mug policy to be the same throughout WDW, and that policy is very vague - if it exists at all. The fact that the resorts actually operate independently makes the issue fuzzier as there may not be a central policy.

Another issue could exist where someone was told that the mugs were reuseable when they purchased them, but were subsequently told that doing so was a no-no. Very bad customer relations situation, I agree. However, if that person then attempts to reuse the mug they could be considered cheating. Not sure how often this may have happened.

Amazing the flap that can be created over a mug. Seeing as I have yet to see an official new policy that is applicable resort wide, I'll keep from getting tied up in my undies and refrain from mailing back my mugs for a bit longer.

How's that research coming Scoop?

p.s. I think the idea of mailing the mugs back is a hoot and I'd do it. Not that I care all that much, but it would be funny and send a message.

[Planogirl]

I don't see how they'll enforce this change (?), bar code or not. The drink fountains are currently in the middle of the food courts and I don't recall anyone watching them. Unless they plan to move them inside the food areas? I don't remember there always being adequate room.

OK, it's a small thing in the scope of things but blech anyway. :(

[DisneyKidds]

I think the idea is that the machine will not dispense the drink unless the barcode is read. If that were the case the fountains could remain where they are. That may have just been speculation though.

[d-r]

Originally posted by Kay1
Some people say, well, did you really think you could pay $9 and get free soda at Disney for life? Well, personally, I wasn't sure, and that's why I asked. I am following the company policy as it was explained to me by the only company representatives available to me. That makes me a cheater how?

Some people are told they are length of stay, others are told that they can bring them back - I'd like to point out again that resorts are "profit centers" (thanks for the term) and are responsible for living within their own budgets. What is the "policy" about these mugs at one resort may not be the policy at another - I honestly do not think there is a "Company Policy" - you were told the policy for dixie landings / port orleans which is a single profit center.

I think of it like this. The management at a given resort realizes that although the majority of their guests will visit only once or maybe twice, that there are some guests who visit once or twice or more a year. Although that second group is probably a small percentage of the guests, they are also the best customers, in terms of being repeat guests. So the management at this given resort says "Sure" when the idea of bringing these mugs back is brought up - they figure that not many people will do it anyway, and the cost will be small compared to the perk for a repeat guest. Now at another resort, maybe people spend less time in the fast food place - maybe this resort doesn't have a large food court, just a fast food grill sort of place. Maybe the management there hasn't really thought about this being a perk for repeat visitors because their guests have never seemed to mind - but they want to let people know the mugs are there and a value, so they prepare a sign that says "Buy a mug! Good for free refills during your entire stay!" - Then this becomes the policy of this resort, because it was written there. It was just written that way because the idea of using it forever never came up to this management, and they were just trying to let the guests know about these mugs.

So then those two resorts have different "Policies." Then say guest #1 is a frequent visitor to the port orleans resorts, where they have food courts and have been used to telling repeat visitors that they can use the mugs on future trips. Guest #2 goes to the wilderness lodge, and reads a sign that says that they are good for their stay - and the cm's tell them that too, because they are used to this policy being there. Then these two guests get on the internet and disagree about what the COMPANY policy is - when really there isn't one.

I sort of doubt that there will be one, too, for that matter, unless somebody higher up starts getting fidgety about guests hearing things on the internet and writing in letters, so they feel like they have to go ahead and set a policy to "fix it." Why would they tell the different resorts how they can sell coke? And why would anyone assume that the process that they are trying in a water park would work at every hotel? Although I've never bought one tof these mugs, I have been to the food courts at dixie landings, port orleans, coronado springs, and all stars music, and I've been to the fast food "grills" at the polly, cont., grand floridian, wilderness lodge, AK lodge - I've been to tubbies in the dolphin, and I've stayed at the Board walk twice but I have no idea where people get and use mugs - my point is, those places ALL work differently, the process at each one is different (I assume the three all stars are the same, only been to one). I really don't understand why one would think that they have had the same policies in the past or why they would go to having the same in the future -

DR

[phillybeth]

My last visit to the World was in Feb 01. We stayed at the Contemporary with my in-laws, who had mugs from a previous visit. That first morning the CM as the register said "Welcome back, I see you were here in '99 from the design on your mug!". Obviously they didn't have a problem with it then.
BTW, did you know that any food stand in the parks will fill your mug with ice for free? Then just fill in up with water at a water fountain. Oops, or is that... cheating? I'd be depriving Ei$ner his $3.48 profit on a $3.50 bottle of water.

[Bstanley]

Exacta-mundo d-r.

The resorts will understand that this change doesn't make 'cents'.

[King Triton]

Did Disney change their policy that you can not bring back your lifetime refillable drink mug? Is this true?

That was the whole selling point of buying that extremely expensive mug.

If I would have known that, then I wouldn't have bought one.

If Disney changed that, I would be pissed too.


King Triton:mad:

[DisneyKidds]

Scoop - you have two different, yet interesting, questions in that doozy of a PS.

The first has to do with what was asked in the PM you got. I suppose it goes like this....

You go to the BW and you really are going to eat at Spoodles. You tell the guard that. You also say - 'hey, after dinner we want to run over and see Illuninations, can we leave the car here?', and he says 'No problem'. Everything is above board, no deceit or trickery, no intent to circumvent the rules. Parking at the resorts to go to the parks is against the rules. Many times, there is a big friggin' sigh right BEFORE you pull into the BW entrance that says so. However, the CM said you could do it. In this case, something the CM has told you appears contrary to the rules. (What I was getting at in my last post) I say do it - the CM is the authority and determines what is correct in that case. I choose to rely on what the CM tells me - and have done exactly that in exactly this situation. Down a slippery slope - I don't think so.

The second involves an intentional, one sided breaking of the 'rules'. They may be unwritten, but everyone kind of knows. CM involvement has nothing to do with this one. Should you do it - probably not. Have we - kind of. We hop around a lot. We will have b'fast at Cape May Cafe and then go to Epcot for a couple of hours. Sometimes we get a 3 hour parking pass and we might be parked for 4 hours, sometimes only 3. Other times we don't get a pass, but we still only park for 4 hours before we head back to our resort for a break. Repeat in the evening after we eat at 1900 Park Fare and go to MK for a couple of hours. Is it wrong? - I don't believe so, not if we get a parking pass and are within the time. I see it as part of getting a sense of what staying at one of the resorts is truely like. It has led us to stay at a resort me might not have otherwise. When we go over it is bad Disneykidds..... The slope seems to be getting a little more slippery here. Gets even more slippery when someone parks at a resort to go to a park all day, with no intention of frequenting any establishment in the resort itself (not something we have done). Such issues were addressed when gates went up at the resorts. I'm sure there were many abusers prior to that. Do you think that many people out and out lie to the CM's and still commit abuses?

[mrtoadslastride]

I really think that in the argument over the what the rule actually is this dicussion has missed a much bigger point.

Let's assume that the rule has always been length of stay only, but that the majority of people who have purchased the cups have been told by CM's (the company's representatives) that they were good for life. In fact then, the actual working policy was that the cups are good for life because that is what the paying customer was told when the cups were purchased. To the paying customer the CM is the Disney authority. If I don't believe the CM when he says the cup is good for life should I also not believe a CM when he tells me to put out a cigarette because smoking is not allowed in the parks. As a guest, I either follow what all of the CM's say or I don't. I can't pick and choose which ones to believe.

This is Disney's error, and like all good businesses they should acknowledge that it was their fault and not punish (by making them buy new mugs) the customers for a problem they created.

I bought a new vehicle a few years ago. The truck was listed in the paper $1000 cheaper than it should have been, but the dealership gave me the price even though they didn't make the error (the paper goofed up). Long story short I bought the truck and will return to that dealership in the future. Disney should act similarly in this instance if they want to live up to high standards of service the company previously established.

[d-r]

Originally posted by phillybeth

BTW, did you know that any food stand in the parks will fill your mug with ice for free? Then just fill in up with water at a water fountain. Oops, or is that... cheating? I'd be depriving Ei$ner his $3.48 profit on a $3.50 bottle of water.

Honestly, I don't think you have to have a resort mug to get a free cup of ice - I bet if you brought a mardi gras cup or whatever the CM would give you ice - but it might be less effort to just pay the 2.50 for the bottle of water than to drag along a mardi gras cup all day -

DR

[phillybeth]

We take our (now illegal, darnit) refillable mugs with us to the parks- backpacks are wonderful things- so we can refill them on the way back to the room. My FIL is diabetic and has congestive heart failure, so he drinks ALOT of water in the parks to stay hydrated. Since we already had the mugs...devious minds put two and two together and got five.
I remember the days before bottled water, when getting a drink was free. Wonder how longit will take Ei$ner and crew to realize the profits they are losing from those FREE water fountains. I guess on my next trip I will have to have a barcode on my chin, proving that I have paid for access to the fountains...

[All Aboard]

I remember the days before bottled water, when getting a drink was free. Huh?

[phillybeth]

If you wanted to drink water, you had to get it from a water fountain. Nasty, warm, chemically treated Florida water. No bottled water available back in the good old days for those of us who don't drink soda.

[KNWVIKING]

I believe state laws require those "free" water fountains.

[EUROPA]

Here is a shocker ....at some parks..cough Cedar Point cough......they give away water for free. In nice big cups with lots of ice. The kicker is that it's not swamp water like at Disney World either it taste just as good as bottled water.


I have been to the food courts at dixie landings, port orleans, coronado springs, and all stars music, and I've been to the fast food "grills" at the polly, cont., grand floridian, wilderness lodge, AK lodge - I've been to tubbies in the dolphin, and I've stayed at the Board walk twice but I have no idea where people get and use mugs -



Wow ! that is one of the first things that we notice when we go to the food courts...in fact we had trouble finding the regular cups.

[raidermatt]

For whatever its worth, the BW doesn't have a food court. You can buy the mugs in the bakery, but I'm not sure where else.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by thedscoop
You're killing me phillybeth. Absolutely splitting my side. I can't hardly stop, umm, laughing.

Funny how a whole slew of people seem to be hyper-sensitive to being called a cheater, when not a single poster on this thread or the related thread has called anyone a cheater who was told by a CM that refillable mugs are reusable on subsequent visits.

An interesting amount of sensitivity over something which doesn't even apply to them.

scoop.




Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
And you are upset because they are going to keep you from abusing the system???




Umm maybe it was the second comment on this thread that set some of us off?

[airlarry!]

M. Scoop,

You may not have noticed, but you have been subtly criticizing those of us who have brought our mugs back to the resorts. Just because you say that no one has called anyone 'cheaters' if they had been told by a CM that they could do this, does not make that statement true.
Contrast this: I don't know all the tax laws, but I'll bet the Tax Man wouldn't give a rodent's rear if I told him that the local IRS guy told me it was okay not to report as income those 'gifts' from clients. With this:
Conversely, if you really weren't told this and were told to use it until the handle falls off, then by all means, I can't see a thing wrong with that ;) Hate to do a little cross-ex, M. Scoop, but just thought I'd point out the anomoly. Just repeat to yourself, M. Scoop, "They've changed the official policy, they've changed the official policy" ;) ;) ;)
In the big picture, a little stolen coke is not going to kill Disney....
I would reword this. "In the big picture, a little stolen 'magic' is going to kill Disney..."
The Coke Cup Chaos is not a big issue by itself. At least not to me. But, with apologies to Sir Baron, it is my 'Mickey Head Butter.'

Until I hear officially otherwise, I will go to my grave believing that the original intent at WDW was actually to make money with these, not lose any.

Get guests to buy an overpriced mug, hope they lose them or become sick of the fact that it is a big effort to fill what is only about 12 oz worth of space, or bring them home to show other people and tell them "You can get all the refills you want if you stay on site instead of the Bestwestern Main Gate motel". In other words, Sir Scoop, it is all about marketing.

And AV's words are true enough anyway. Are these mo-mos really gonna save money with this system? I think not. This is one decision that does not send my heart rate up at all. It makes me scratch my head at the incomptence behind the decision...

[TiggerFreak]

Exactly how I feel about it.
Along with many others, it's not the "Hand reaching into my pocket" that concerns me. It's the DISregard for the proven DISNEY way of customer service/appreciation/respect that DISappoints and DISenheartens me.

By the way, has anyone confirmed that this WILL be implemented in the resorts (barcoding), or is this just an evil rumor started by _______ (Fill in your favorite Disney Basher)?

Now does anyone have change for the Bus fare so I can get from VWL to Epcot;)

[d-r]

Originally posted by raidermatt
For whatever its worth, the BW doesn't have a food court. You can buy the mugs in the bakery, but I'm not sure where else.

I know that there is not a food court at BW - my point was that the mugs and the process around them is different at different resorts - did you know that the mugs at the boardwalk bakery do not have free refills at all? It is .85 per refill. But then the mug itself only costs 3 or 4 bucks - it is another example that there is NO wdw-wide policy concerning these silly mugs - it is up to the management of a given resort.

there was never a wdw policy about the mugs - each resort did - and i think will continue to do - whatever it wants to do ith the mugs.

dr

[All Aboard]

Chad, you know I like you but...

What's driving me flippin' crazy is your adherance to the notion that CM's are "mistaken" when they tell guests that they can return with the mugs and use them in the future.

I would agree with you if it were a few isolated incidences where this has happened. However, it is the rule rather than the exception. I can say with near perfect conviction that if it were a hard and fast policy, management would have stepped in years ago and put a stop to the "mistaken" CMs. Have they? I haven't seen anyone post that they were told specifically "no" when they asked the question.

Hundreds (maybe even 1000) of those mugs are sold each day. I doubt a day goes by that each and every CM in each and every resort isn't asked that question.

It would be so simple to print out a one paragraph communication to resort food court CM's that clearly states to tell guests that the mugs expire when the guest's stay is over. That costs very little. If this is such a big "problem" that management wants stopped, don't you think that might be a good first step before investing in barcode hardware and software???

To let it persist for years and years and years. All those mistaken CMs spouting out incorrect information. "What oh what shall we do about it" they asked in staff meetings. No one could come up with a solution. No one thought to communcate to the CMs. Until, one day somebody came up with the bright idea of the barcodes.

"That's it" they said. We cutoff the misinformation at the pass by rendering the misinformation useless instead of trying to stop the misinformation.

Am I the only idiot to whom this doesn't add up?

I still stand on the notion that the policy (as cleverly written) and the info told verbally by CMs can peacefully co-exist and all be correct and NOT contradictory.

Sure, the mugs are good for the length of your stay. They don't expire after the 1st day. THAT would be contradictory.

[mrtoadslastride]

Scoop quick question for you about your last post.

I know what you are talking about all the numerous ways people (unethically???) use to save some money at WDW. My question is this, If you hold guests accountable for unethical behavior, should Disney be held accountable for their unethical behavior? The behavior I am talking about here is the price gouging that goes on at WDW. I personally find some of the pricing at WDW offensive as it appears that Disney does everything they can to make sure that my wallet is as light as possible when I leave their property. To me that is unethical. I understand that Disney is a business and must turn a profit, but some of their current business practices are unnecessary.

While I don't condone it I can see how families that go to WDW on a tight budget can look at WDW as a game of cat and mouse. Disney tries to do everything it can to seperate me from my money, while I do everything I can to keep as much money as I can in my wallet.

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by thedscoop

My distinction is that there is a difference between making unwise business decisions versus breaking rules.

I think that is fair, but I would then ask where were the guests breaking the rules? In this case (the cups) guests were told by CM's that they were good for life. If Disney employees don't know the policy how can guests be expected to follow it? During our last five trips I don't recall seing any signs which indicated what the actual policy was, consequently we went with what the CM's told us.

I can't really fault guests and call them unethical for using rules established by Disney to save a few dollars or make their trip a little more ejoyable. However, those same guests should be aware that doing so may cost them. Ie. if a guest reserves a room with an AP discount and doesn't have an AP. They shouldn't be surprised if when they check in they get called on it and are forced to pay the higher rate.

One last point, without entering into an ethics debate, IMO unethical behavior is not just limited to breaking the rules. Whether there is a rule against some of Disney's practices or not, I still find some of their practices to be unethical. Some things are just wrong regardless what the law says.

[All Aboard]

As far as I know, Disney isn't sending folks into the resort rooms to take money from the guest's safes, nor are they instructing CM's to intentionally return less change to guests than the bill calls for. Charging prices that consumers are willing to pay for a luxury item (and a Disney trip IS a luxury item) is most certainly not unethical, it's just matching prices to market demand for an item that is not limited in quantity and not vital to survival (though many here may disagree with the latter.)

BTW, Chad, I understand all of your statements and thanks for all of the clarification. However, you've chosen to use the mug threads to make all of the "rules breaking" analogies. It's difficult for the reader to seperate that from a direct application in this case, since these threads are about refillable mugs.

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by gcurling
As far as I know, Disney isn't sending folks into the resort rooms to take money from the guest's safes, nor are they instructing CM's to intentionally return less change to guests than the bill calls for. Charging prices that consumers are willing to pay for a luxury item (and a Disney trip IS a luxury item) is most certainly not unethical.

A WDW trip is definately a luxury item, but for some families it is also a once in a life time trip and I just don't see the need to squeeze these types of families for every dollar.

To me a trip to Disney is similar to a trip to Vegas. In both places, I know that the management will do whatever it can to seperate me from my money. I just don't think that is what Disney is supposed to be about. Ethics means diffenent things to different people, but my definition does not limit unethical behavior to robbing guests safes.

[All Aboard]

Sorry to persist on this topic, but... I know that the management will do whatever it can to seperate me from my money.Seems to me that they post prices for everything and then charge exctly what's posted. Seems fairly legitimate to me. Your statement sounds as if you believe Disney uses unscrupulous methods to bilk the unwary guest out of cash. To me a trip to Disney is similar to a trip to Vegas.I guess I'll stop debating here, we DEFINITELY have differing perspectives. When slot machines are installed at the Grand Floridian and the head waiter at Flying Fish starts accepting Benjamins for good tables at the topless review...

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by gcurling
Sorry to persist on this topic, but... Seems to me that they post prices for everything and then charge exctly what's posted. Seems fairly legitimate to me. Your statement sounds as if you believe Disney uses unscrupulous methods to bilk the unwary guest out of cash.


Do they really post the prices for everything?? What about Hotel Rooms, ticket prices, or food prices? Seems that there are tons of "Discounts" out there that really don't get posted. What a great system too. You'll find many places raise the standard prices only to throw the customer a bone by giving them a discount. It happens all over the place not just in the World of Disney.

Do you really pay rack rate when you go to any Hotel not just Disney? I hope not becuase that is not the "real" rates.

[All Aboard]

EUROPA, my point was that they don't charge you MORE through unscrupulous tactics such as "resort fees" or "service fees" (except Pepper Market). If you book a room at the All Stars for $49 a night, you pay that plus tax. No extra parking fees (Universal Resorts) or hidden add-on service charges (Marriot World Center) that you get blindsided with at checkout.

I just don't see how having a rack rate of $77 but charging $49 is "using every means possible to extract as much cash from the customer as they can."

No, I don't ever pay rack rate. And I don't feel ripped off because the rack rate is higher than what I paid. Nor do I feel like I got an exceptional deal. WDW is forced to charge what the customer is willing to pay for hotel rooms. Otherwise, they would sit empty.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by thedscoop
...remind me to introduce you to this other guy that also lives in Greeneville...;) You two would get along famously!:D :rolleyes: :D

You might need to be a little more specific....we have a lot of guys that live in Greenville. Maybe I already know him.

OH wait...is that some sort of inside joke? HAHAHAH! :rolleyes:

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by gcurling
[B]EUROPA, my point was that they don't charge you MORE through unscrupulous tactics such as "resort fees" or "service fees" (except Pepper Market). If you book a room at the All Stars for $49 a night, you pay that plus tax. No extra parking fees (Universal Resorts) or hidden add-on service charges (Marriot World Center) that you get blindsided with at checkout.



If that was your point then I do understand...but does Universal charge guest for parking? I was not aware of that...I know they do if you park in the Garage or Valet...but to park your own car?


I just don't see how having a rack rate of $77 but charging $49 is "using every means possible to extract as much cash from the customer as they can."

No, I don't ever pay rack rate. And I don't feel ripped off because the rack rate is higher than what I paid. Nor do I feel like I got an exceptional deal. WDW is forced to charge what the customer is willing to pay for hotel rooms. Otherwise, they would sit empty.

You would feel ripped off if you did pay rack rate and did not know there were discounts? The point is really though...77 dollars is not the price of the room, but 49 is the price. Your made to think that you getting a deal when your really not.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by thedscoop
1. His name is Jeff Jewell.

2. It was an inside joke.

3. :rolleyes:

OH, once again then HAHAHAHA! You must kill them at the water cooler everyday. Here is another one right back at you -> :rolleyes:

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by gcurling
Sorry to persist on this topic, but... Seems to me that they post prices for everything and then charge exctly what's posted. Seems fairly legitimate to me. Your statement sounds as if you believe Disney uses unscrupulous methods to bilk the unwary guest out of cash. I guess I'll stop debating here, we DEFINITELY have differing perspectives. When slot machines are installed at the Grand Floridian and the head waiter at Flying Fish starts accepting Benjamins for good tables at the topless review...

My point in making the Vegas comparison was not to suggest that Disney has done the equivelant of installing slot machines.

It appears to me that Disney's number one goal is now to seperate me from my money (same as the casinos in Vegas). I don't believe that is what Disney should be about. Should the company try to make money? Absolutely, I just don't believe that the lengths the company has gone to lately to pull profits out of the parks is appropriate.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by thedscoop
Geez, fella...lighten up! It's generally all in fun around here...

All in fun at someone's expense? Maybe I still don't get the "joke". What information do you think that you've gleamed about me from reading my post here? How is that similar or dissimilar to this person you speak of?

[EUROPA]

Sorry I've seen his name on here, never really new all of that about him. No I'm not him.


Chirs Rock...I'm sorry :( I would rather be known as the Dennis Miller of the office.

[All Aboard]

Mrtoad, my point was that Disney HASN'T installed slot machines (which are great examples of money bilkers.)

Instead of trying to defend Disney's "tactics" I'll ask a question of you. Can you please give me a couple of specific examples of how: Disney's number one goal is now to seperate me from my money (same as the casinos in Vegas).

Slot machines are a great example for Vegas. So is the fact that you will get a lousy seat at a show unless you slip the host a big bill. Getting you drunk while you are gambling is another. Throwing you out on your ear because you have a good memory for what cards have already been dealt is another.

Europa, yes the Universal on-site hotels now charge a $6 per day parking fee (in addition to room charges) for self parking at their hotel. As far as I know, the guest is not told this when they book. (At least I haven't been when I've made a couple of ressies in the past.)

I'm still struggling with the how offering discounted rates below rack is an example of using "every means possible to seperate a guest from their cash." That's the point against which I was arguing, and that example doesn't seem to match that point.

Bait and switch, hidden charges, add-ons, deceiteful sales tactics. These (plus the Vegas ones) are all examples. I'm just looking for how WDW does it.

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by gcurling
[B]
Europa, yes the Universal on-site hotels now charge a $6 per day parking fee (in addition to room charges) for self parking at their hotel. As far as I know, the guest is not told this when they book. (At least I haven't been when I've made a couple of ressies in the past.)

I'm still struggling with the how offering discounted rates below rack is an example of using "every means possible to seperate a guest from their cash." That's the point against which I was arguing, and that example doesn't seem to match that point.



I won't say every means myself...but I do see hidden "discounts"
as not a good pratiice...but many places do this....Disney is juust better at it.

Did not know that about Universal....I will find out first hand in the next couple of days as we are booking our Nov trip. Trust me you would not like to be the Desk Clerk or the Manager if they try and charge us for self parking. I feel sorry for the person that does that and has to deal with my wife.

I'll let you know what happens in the next couple of days. I plan to call the Hotel directly and ask them about the parking situation but not asking them if it cost to park. We'll see if they give up the information without a direct question.

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by gcurling
Mrtoad, my point was that Disney HASN'T installed slot machines (which are great examples of money bilkers.)

Instead of trying to defend Disney's "tactics" I'll ask a question of you. Can you please give me a couple of specific examples of how:

Slot machines are a great example for Vegas. So is the fact that you will get a lousy seat at a show unless you slip the host a big bill. Getting you drunk while you are gambling is another. Throwing you out on your ear because you have a good memory for what cards have already been dealt is another.

Bait and switch, hidden charges, add-ons, deceiteful sales tactics. These (plus the Vegas ones) are all examples. I'm just looking for how WDW does it.

For me the how question is the rub. Vegas for the most part is pretty up front about what goes on there. When you take a trip to Vegas you should know what you are going to get. WDW is a little more subtle (the bait and switch et al would not be good for the Disney image).

However, I guess I will have to concede the point because when it comes down to it every company's goal is to make as much money as the marketplace will allow. When I started to make a list, the things I could come up with weren't much different than what goes on at professional sports stadiums and theme parks across the country.

I will finish by saying that trips to WDW have changed the way I vacation and shop. In an effort to be able to afford going to WDW more often I have used guide books and the net to get as good as deal as possible, this has now carried over to other areas. Instead of just accepting the quoted price for a room in Chicago for a weekend trip, my wife and I now use the net etc. to get a better deal.

[EPCOTgrl1]

If right now you went up to a CM and asked them who long do these mugs last... they would say for life. So you would never be "abbousing" the system you would just have the mug and use it to its fullest! why is disney becoming so cheap?

[eeyore0062]

We bought our 1st set of refillable mugs at Dixie Landings in 1998, at which time we were told that they would be able to be refilled for free for the *duration of our stay at that particular resort*... not for life. We were also told the same thing in 2000, when purchasing our WL mugs, in 2001 when purchasing our CBR mugs and just recently, in January when purchasing our Contemporary mugs. Someone really must have misled a whole lot of people, or there is a lot of wishful thinking going on.

[gepetto]

Maybe Disney's problem is with the real cheaters of the system. Our last Polynesian stay, the entire time we were there I would guess that only about half the people getting soda even had Polynesian mugs (new or old). I saw people refilling empty pop bottles, coolers, mugs from the parks and other resorts.:rolleyes: Who needs to buy a mug....use whatever container you have with you.:eek: Maybe it's cheaper to pay for a barcode reader than to pay employees to stand next to the pop machine 24 hours/day.:bounce:

[Tara8595]

1. Policy hasn't been implemented at the resorts yet, right? Seems I read something somewhere about getting a barcode sticker. Maybe all you have to do with an old mug, is present it to get a sticker which will be good while you are there. IE - if you have a sticker without a barcode printed on it, they'll give you a sticker to use so that you can continue to get your drinks whenever you return, replacing the sticker on subsequent visits - so you'd be 'grandfathered' in.

2. Even if Disney never changed the policy, they'd still be making money on the mugs. $9 for a mug that probably cost them .17 or less, for coke that probably cost them .20 or less per 2 liter. I mean, do the math....in order to start losing money, a person would have to drink the equivalent of like 45 2-liter bottles of soda. It would take me longer than the mug would last to consume this on subsequent visits, even if I'm staying 2 weeks a year. So why shake things up in the first place? I don't get it.

Just some observations...

Tara

[EUROPA]

Don't you love it when people don't read the other post.... :)