Currently Available DVC Resorts?

[mgilmer]

My wife and I are considering buying points in the DVC. We have called for the info packet and I was told it would be here in about two weeks. I was just wondering which resorts are still open for purchase directly from Disney? Also, what are the financing terms Disney is offering (interest rates, length, etc.)? Thanks in advance for the info.

Mike

DL in 1957
WDW in June 2002
WDW upcoming Dec. 2002

[Terry S]

Beach Club Villas is the only DVC property currently available on property from Disney.

We purchased at BCV in February and choose the 10.95% for 10 years with direct debit. I don't know if it is still the same or not.

[Shontell_Crawford]

Mike,

You can still buy Beach Club Villas, Vero Beach and Hilton Head directly from Disney. You can get any of the properties, including Old Key West, Boardwalk, and Wilderness Lodge via resale, but not always immediately and in the particular size you may need.

Let me know if I can answer any specifics for you.

Kind regards,
Shontell

[DVCDAVE]

SHONTELL won't say it as he is probably too modest. But he can save you money too. As resales usually trade at a discount to Disney offerrings, and can be negotiated. Disney doesn't negotiate.

Disney does have its own financing available, where as in a resale, you have to arrange your own line of credit or home equity loan. More often than not, your own financing is cheaper than Disney's currently around 10% for up to 10 years. So, if you don't mind doing a little footwork in the financing area, your savings with a resale really add up to some BIG $ savings.

[mgilmer]

Financing (and getting the start month) are the main reasons I am considering a direct purchase from DVC. I checked with my banker and he was very negative about timeshares and knew nothing about DVC. I finally did get him to quote me a rate for a points purchase and it was higher than what Disney wanted. Also with Disney I can buy the exact number of points I need. The downside is that I cannot get points at BWV. I am looking strongly at BCV at the moment. If that should sellout before I can move on it, I will just pass on the DVC and continue to rent points until another onsite resort opens up as I am not interested in Vero or HH.

Mike

[erikthewise]

Having just taught a course this spring that included some personal finance, I can't overemphasize how nice it would be to avoid Disney financing.

With Disney financing at 10.95% over a ten-year term with a principal of $12000, you would make monthly payments of $164.96 for a total payment of about $19795.

My home equity loan is currently at 4.75%. If that rate held up for ten years, I would make monthly payments of $125.82 for a total payment of about $15100. The difference would nearly pay my annual dues (about $43/month)!

A more realistic longterm estimate for effective rate on a home equity loan might be 6.00%. Then the monthly payments would be $133.23 for a total payment of about $15990.

Moral: If you can't pay cash, make every effort to find alternative financing.

[DVCDAVE]

By the way, 'Use year' or 'start month, as you put it, has little or nothing to do with the timeshare. It really is nothing more than the anniversary date for getting your annual alottment of points. If for any reason you need to use the points before your use year month is up, you simply borrow them. There is NO cost for that transaction. We started our purchase by 'banking our points immediately, this way we didn't have to borrow. But, we postponed our first trip the first year and waited before using our points.

Do not get confused with use year, it is nothing more than accounting procedure, nothing more, nothing less.

[DisOrBust]

I thought use year effects IF your able to get the dates you want. For example I have 2 small DD (soon 3!) and are getiting to the point of being able to go during peak times ie Easter. I thought if I don't have an April use year I would run the risk of noy being able to use my points during that time. This isn't correct? It really has been what has turned me off from DVC.

[dianeschlicht]

You are ALWAYS able to book your reservations 11 months from the date of check out at your home resort, no matter what your use year is. As stated above, use year is only for accounting purposes. The only time it would matter is if you ever have to cancel a trip less than 30 days before the trip. If that should happen, your points are placed in a holding account and must be used before the end of the use year. I 6 years, we have never had to cancel a ressie that close to the date.

[DVCDAVE]

sorry, that is incorrect.

The booking window is based upon your day of check out. As long as you have points available (incluing banking or borrowed points) you can make a reservation 11 month from your date of check out at your home resort, and 7 months from day of check out for any other DVC resort. Now I know some people are going to jump on me if I don't mention the fact, that you can call day by day and add on to your vacation day by day to get around the day of check out rule. That too is true.

As you can now see, use year has nothing to do with the utility of your time share interest. The only reason why someone may prefer a particular use year over another one, is if they are looking to do and addon to an exisiting contract (when doingg an addon through Disney they require the same use year), or purchase another contract and want the ease of managing all their points. The ease in the latter case, is simply rememdering when to bank to avoid lossing some points by missing cut off dates. But some of the software available free of charge eases a lot of that for you.

I am not at all surprised that your banker is uneasy about timeshares in general. Understandably, they prefer to lend against collateral that they are familiar with ie: your home. I'm sure the interest rate he quoted you was nothing more than a Personal Line of Credit. Nothing more than a credit card rate.

Why not obtain a home equity loan first, then shop fora contract in the resale market. Most Home Equity rates ate prime + 2 points. Approx. 6.75%, sure beats 10.95% that Disney is offering.

You will save BIG $ not only on your interest rate, but also on the price you'll pay for the resale. AND you may be able to find an exisiting contract with BANKED points, hence obtaining a double bonus your first year.

[WDWalways]

Originally posted by erikthewise
With Disney financing at 10.95% over a ten-year term with a principal of $12000, you would make monthly payments of $164.96 for a total payment of about $19795.

First of all, you have to put a down payment of 20% so you actually only finance $9600.00 if you start with the minimum.

Now, maybe I'm figuring this out wrong but 10.95% of $9600. is only $10651.20 which would be $88.76 a month for 10 years. I was never good at math!!:rolleyes:

[DVCDAVE]

Right 20% down, 9600 financed.

Sorry WDWalways; The correct answer is ----

Payment = 131.97/month for 120 months =$15,836.21 Total payments, not including your down payment

Total interest paid = 15836.21 - 9600 = $6,236.21 WOW !!

[DVCDAVE]

At 7 % the 9600 financed is .....

111.46 / month x 120 months =13,375.70 Total payments not including down payment


Total interest paid is 13375.70 - 9600 = 3775.70

OR a savings of $2460.51 in interest expense !!

Annual passes for a family of 4 anyone ?!!!

[Shontell_Crawford]

Since this has turned into a financing issue, I thought this alternative might help someone who hasn't considered it.

The initial deposit on a resale can be as little as 10% - in certain cases possibly even lower. Discuss your situation with your agent, we are here to help. Keep that in mind if cash out of pocket is a big issue.

Next, the title agency can accept "purchase checks*" from credit cards for the initial AND final payment. If you have good credit and have a card with even an 8% interest, you could use one of the purchase checks, then pay it off at whatever payment rate is easiest for you. Maybe 7 years, maybe 1...just depends on your income, lifestyle and savings. Either way, you have still beaten Disney's rate.

*Be aware, some credit cards treat checks as "cash" and charge a higher rate, while others do not. Find out about your's by Calling the Credit Card company. I've even been given a lower rate on one of my cards just by calling and asking them to lower it. It never hurts to try.

Just food for thought. Good luck!!

Shontell

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by DVCDAVE
...As you can now see, use year has nothing to do with the utility of your time share interest. The only reason why someone may prefer a particular use year over another one, is if they are looking to do and addon to an exisiting contract (when doingg an addon through Disney they require the same use year), or purchase another contract and want the ease of managing all their points. The ease in the latter case, is simply rememdering when to bank to avoid lossing some points by missing cut off dates. But some of the software available free of charge eases a lot of that for you.
I think there is more to your use year than this.
As Diane noted above, cancelling within the 30 window is one consideration.
Another, is if you had to cancel a ressie earlier than the 30 window. You would want those points back in time to bank them, if you can not use them in that use year. I vacation Sept-May, so a September use year is advantages for me. :cool:

[DVCDAVE]

OK; When I was writing I wasn't thinking about cancalations, but none the less, you are right.

Then again, it is an accounting procedure, (not to discount it in this matter)

What else did I overlook ????

[Maistre Gracey]

It doesn't look like you overlook much, Dave!
That financing stuff looks very ugly. I am now in the process of a major paydown. :cool:

[mgilmer]

OK, you have convinced me that financing is not a good idea, so I need some cash purchase advice. I have figured, based on my family's annual vacation plans and vacation history, that to stay on the World every year I would need about 260 points. In order to get to that level, i will have to buy points over two-three years. I have about $10,000 now to invest. About how many points could I get for that initial investment, considering lthe ancillary costs like closing costs, title insurance, etc., for a World property like Beach Club, Boardwalk, or OKW? I am not interested in my primary resort to be offsite. I am afraid that the seven month booking window will be harder to use for non-home resorts in the future as the Club gains more and more members.

Mike

[CarolinaMike]

Originally posted by DVCDAVE
By the way, 'Use year' or 'start month, as you put it, has little or nothing to do with the timeshare. It really is nothing more than the anniversary date for getting your annual alottment of points.

Mike,

Hopefully I can help you understand the true importance of your use year. It significantly affects two things: banking points, and reservation cancellations.

First, you can only bank 100% of your points to the following year if you choose to do so within 6 months of your use year's beginning. In other words, if you have a February use year, you must decide by July 31 if you wish to bank up to 100% of your points. If you miss this deadline, you can then bank only up to 50%, and this must be decided within 9 months (October 31 in this scenario). Finally, if you miss both the above deadlines, you can only bank up to 25%, and this has to be done within 10 months (November 30 in this scenario). Therefore, the banking windows are very important as they relate to when you normally vacation. You need to consider when you will be planning vacations, and thus when you will know how many points you are using for the year, and determine which use year would be best as it relates to the banking windows.

Second, the use year affects cancellations (or more accurately, re-using points from a cancelled reservation). If you have to cancel a reservation in the last 30 days prior to check-in, those points must be used prior to the end of your current use year, and cannot be banked. In this situation, you can see that if you tend to vacation in August, for example, a September use year would be very bad - if you cancel a reservation sometime in August, you would have less than 1 month remaining in the use year to re-book and use those points.

Hope this helps!

[Maistre Gracey]

Well, the current price is $80 pp. I don't know what (if any) promotional programs such as Magical Beginnings are going on right now. Closing and other costs are covered by DVC (of course built into the purchase price).

[Cruelladeville]

Since this has turned into a financing thread, I have a question related to paying down your loan--if Disney charges 10%, can't you help things alot by paying your loan off early? If you refinance your house--and I believe 10 years is the least the banks will refinance--might these two turn out nearly even? I'm no mathematician, can't you tell? I know that you could pay off your refinance early too, if there is no penalty for that, but don't forget that many banks charge to refinance. I paid a total of $1500 in order to refinance, and later I thought that perhaps the Disney alternative--and paying it off early--may have been a better idea, since there is a prepayment penalty for 5 years on my refinance. The rate was only 5.50%. Which choice is the more cost-effective?

[mgilmer]

I know the $80 from Disney, but I was speaking of on the resale markets. If I am going to pay cash, I will buy at resale (and a discount) from what Disney wants on the front end. BTW, what is the buyback "trigger" price for Disney on resale contracts, if anyone knows?

Mike

[DVCDAVE]

There is no official posting from Disney, but I believe DOC said something about $65.

MB is a program where they 'buy back ypur first years points for $10., but I would figure you would want to use them or, why would you buy in the first place ? You still have to pay the dues on something you aren't using.

Cruelladiville; I don't undrstand your question.....All loans can be paid off early. The lower interest rate is always the cheapest loan.

[chris1gill]

Okay, I just want to throw this out there for you... You said you needed 260 points, well a 260 point resale package will sell for LESS per point than a 150 point package. Also, if you were to keep adding on via resale, you'd keep getting hit with the 400.00 closing costs, AND the smaller the point packages the more they sell for!!

Here is what I would do, you're in great position to buy 260 points at BWV's @ 60.00 per point for a total of 15,600.00, pay the 10K you have, finance the 5,600 for 2 or 3 years (however long it will actually take you to pay it off)

Buying the larger point package will save you 5.00/point I think (I have no such documentation, just follow the prices) & it will save you 400 per additional closing

If you can do the home equity loan, that would be great, if you can grab a 0% credit card for a year, that would be great... Worse case scenario, grab a personal loan for 2 years & try to pay that off as fast as possible! OR, if your package comes with all the points, rent out the first 260 @ 10.00 per point... you'd only owe 3000.00...

I think this is very doable for you!

Oh, almost forgot, the buy back does not seem to be holding in the mid-sixties... definitely below 60.00 is a problem, but if there are no current points for a contract of 300+ points, you may get away with less $$ as Dean recently did...

[gmboy95]

reading this thread has given me a large ice crem headache....The way i look at it...I am quite sure disney is making a killing off of me, however i would pay double what i pay now for the amount of enjoyment we have had over the past few years. if i spend time thinking about how i may have saved a buck or two here or there on financing, it only depresses me.

[kem330]

I don't think it's going to be easy to find 260 points for $60.00/point. That is not that big of a contract. With Disney's price going up to $80/point it seems the resale prices have gone up as well. $62- 65 seems more realistic plus closing costs of $400-450.

[JimB.]

Allof the financing issues aside, (which give me a BAD headache ),

Right now there is a MB special for VB that cuts the price to $65/point & cuts HH price to $70/point. If location of home is not that important, & you think the 7-month window won't be a problem, then this may be one of the best deals around.

[Dean]

Obviously, there are some decisions that only you can make. Whether it's best to buy a smaller contract now and try to add later on OR to buy a larger contract now and work hard to pay for it seems to be the question. You will do better financially through resale. A thought or two I haven't really seen put forth in this thread. You said you wanted ON PROPERTY if I read your post correctly. BW should be doable at $62-65 per point for 150-270 points. LIkely at 150 you're looking at the higher per points cost and at a larger contract, maybe the lower end. The current points availability of that contract should affect the price and value. The closing costs and whether you have to reimburse the seller for points will also affect the final value. OKW should be slightly lower, more available and with more people willing to deal. Also remember that the maint fees are significantly less at OKW than BW, to the tune of almost $200 per year.

If you want BW, buy there but OKW will have lower fees, slightly lower buy in price and you'll need less points to stay there. For the $10K, the best you'll do without financing is about 150 points. Stay away from the buy back programs unless it's at least $10 pp. Don't be tempted to buy off property if that's not where you're going to stay even if it is cheaper. Look at each points package on it's on merrit. Don't discounts packages with no current points, they can sometimes be the best deal going. Also, don't ignore packages with a lot of extra points, they may indeed be worth more to you on a pp basis. You also may be able to buy a smaller package if it has a lot of extra points with it.

You should know that reimbursing the full fees may mean you're paying twice for maint fees on those points. Unlike traditional timeshares, it's not a question of paying this years fees to get this year points. You actually pay for the calendar year, not use year. Any amount you pay at closing is extra money in the seller pocket, not going to DVC. What's fair depends on the use year, points availability and time of year you're closing.

As for getting it at $60 per point, that's possible but not likely unless there aren't current points. You must decide how much of a gambler you want to be. Remember that it's very possible, even likely, that the price pp will go up again in the next 6 months or so. Resale will go up along with DVC somewhat. You need to decide whether the savings of buying a larger contract of lower pp costs and only one closing costs are worth the financing issue. Also, talke another look at the points tables to decide how many points you truly expect to need. I would build in a cushion of maybe 10% in the total points but it partly depends on what unit size, number of days and time of year you are looking at.

One other strategy would be to buy 150 points or so now and then to add on through DVC when the time comes, possibly in smaller increments. That gives you home resort priority at more than one resort, avoids the need to pay multiple closing costs and allows you to buy now what you can directly invest. Remember also that BW has standard view rooms which cost less points. If you can plan 11 months out and compromise slightly in this area, you can get by with less points. Good luck.

[Shontell_Crawford]

Originally posted by Dean

You should know that reimbursing the full fees may mean you're paying twice for maint fees on those points. Unlike traditional timeshares, it's not a question of paying this years fees to get this year points. You actually pay for the calendar year, not use year. Any amount you pay at closing is extra money in the seller pocket, not going to DVC. What's fair depends on the use year, points availability and time of year you're closing.
[/B]

I have to disagree with two points. You do not pay "twice" for maintenance on points through a resale. You pay for the current year's available points, then the next year's points the next immediate January. If you buy in December, yes, you might pay two years of dues back to back, but you should have two year's worth of points to use. I can give examples and further details if necessary.

Next, you may or may NOT be putting money in the seller's pocket when you pay the current year's dues. Have you considered that some people may be selling because they are in financial distress and haven't been paying their dues? In that case, the money goes directly to Disney. You, as the buyer, have no way of knowing each individual situation and a broker is not legally allowed to share that information with a buyer unless a seller has authorized him to do so. Which is also food for thought as to why some seller's can't be negotiable.
Strictly hypothetical example: If a seller lists a property for $1,000,owes $900 on the Disney loan, agrees to pay his broker $100, and hasn't paid maintenance fees and taxes for this year because he couldn't. All the points are available for you as a buyer, but the seller can't negotiate because he has no equity at all. When you buy this package, and "pay" the current year's dues because you are getting the points....the money goes to Disney, not the seller. This seller sees no cash, they just get rid of a financial hardship. Sometimes when you buy a resale, you are actually helping the seller!

Unfortunately for the sellers, I have seen many similar real life scenarios.

I thought you might want to be aware of other circumstances, as you might be in the seller's shoes someday.

All the best,
Shontell

[Dean]

Shontell, you and I have had this discussion before on an email list. DVC dues are paid yearly and are based on a Calendar year. If you buy from DVC during the year, you pay a prorated amount even though you get the full years points. Those buying BCV will pay from the date of closing, occupancy or Use year, whichever is later. When you pay in Jan, you are paying for X months of the then current use year and 12-X months of the upcoming use year. As someone who resells DVC, you should know this. If you advise clients otherwise, you are misleading them.

The following is a quote taken from the old Member Guidebook.After your first year's dues billing, your dues are paid on an annual calendar basis from January 1 through December 31, regardless of the month your Use Year starts.
And from the New Member Guidebook.Annual dues are due January 15. They are calculated based on the calendar year, not your Use Year.

While I understand that what you say is the norm in timeshares in general, it does not apply in the same way for DVC. Obviously all is negotiable but the neutral fees reimbursement for a June use year bought in Jan with all of the points there in June but none until then is 7 months of fees. No more and no less. If your assertion were true, there would be a full years fee due the first year when buying straight from DVC. Likewise, assuming full points the last years, there will be fees due the last year of the ownership including 1 month for Jan of 2042. Obviously if there is proration or some other reduction in points the last year or 2, that will affect the fees due.

The other point was referring to the basic mechanics of the closing. I could have said, if one is up to date on fees and loan payments, etc but did not feel it was necessary. Regardless, if there is a line listing for "this years" maint fees on your closing, it is money going to the seller. What it's used for is up to them. If it's used to clear up any issues such as late maint fees or loan payments is uportant but not part of the basics for the buyer. All the buyer cares about is clear title and the bottom line in costs and points.

[Shontell_Crawford]

Originally posted by Dean
Shontell, you and I have had this discussion before on an email list. DVC dues are paid yearly and are based on a Calendar year. If you buy from DVC during the year, you pay a prorated amount even though you get the full years points.

Dean - the previous discussion was based on resales, not buying directly from Disney. Had I been comparing the two, I would have included this fact.

Those buying BCV will pay from the date of closing, occupancy or Use year, whichever is later. When you pay in Jan, you are paying for X months of the then current use year and 12-X months of the upcoming use year. As someone who resells DVC, you should know this. If you advise clients otherwise, you are misleading them.

Dean - Having resold over a thousand DVC resales, I do know exactly how the billiing works. Disney starts billing in January 2002 for the points you receive on the use year anniversary date of 2002. So what you quoted is correct, but it contradicts your argument and solidifies mine. On January 31, 2042 your lease will expire, and you won't receive any points for 2042. I bet Disney won't be billing you in December and having a payment due on January 15 2042 - because you won't be getting anything. Which is my point. On a resale, you are paying dues for what you get. Period.
If you want to compare dues on a "new" purchase, which IS pro-rated, and I never said it wasn't, then we would be in agreement on apples to apples, I would imagine.



The following is a quote taken from the old Member Guidebook.
And from the New Member Guidebook.

While I understand that what you say is the norm in timeshares in general, it does not apply in the same way for DVC.

I guess that depends on your broker. It is the norm with all the brokers I've worked with who are familiar with DVC. There are plenty of brokers who haven't a clue. For your sake, I hope you never have to deal with them. I always get a good laugh when another broker calls me asking me if I have any Disney "weeks" because he has a hot buyer.

Obviously all is negotiable but the neutral fees reimbursement for a June use year bought in Jan with all of the points there in June but none until then is 7 months of fees. No more and no less. If your assertion were true, there would be a full years fee due the first year when buying straight from DVC.

Incorrect. My assertion was never a comparison to buying from Disney. Not once. I deal with people buying all year long. A comparison would have to be done on every single month, assuming a resale buyer was getting all the points from the seller from last year and/or the current year. Sorry, I don't have the time to spend that much time analyzing the month to month savings if someone waits to buy from Disney in December so they don't have to pay a full year's points in dues. My clients are looking to save money, period. When they come to me, I show them how it's done when compared to Disney. Each package I sell is different, each Disney incentive is different, and I've dealt with price increases from Disney since 1997. Trust me, I know the math.


Likewise, assuming full points the last years, there will be fees due the last year of the ownership including 1 month for Jan of 2042. Obviously if there is proration or some other reduction in points the last year or 2, that will affect the fees due.


I could be wrong, and I'll gladly admit it if you can get something from Disney saying otherwise, but as I stated earlier, You get zero points in 2042, therefore, nobody will have to pay dues come January 2042. No proration, nothing. Maybe the Disney rep I spoke to was wrong. Somehow I feel confident you'll get to the bottom and straighten this all out. I'm going to go to the Beach Club Grand Opening in the meantime. :-)


The other point was referring to the basic mechanics of the closing. I could have said, if one is up to date on fees and loan payments, etc but did not feel it was necessary. Regardless, if there is a line listing for "this years" maint fees on your closing, it is money going to the seller.

Sorry, you are incorrect. Don't believe me? Stop paying your dues in January 2003...then sell your package in June and see how the money works out. My contract states, buyer/seller is responsible for the annual dues on XXX amount of points for 20XX year (as applicable to whom gets to USE the points) and guess who does the math? Disney. Somehow, I think you and I can trust them.

What it's used for is up to them. If it's used to clear up any issues such as late maint fees or loan payments is uportant but not part of the basics for the buyer.

All the buyer cares about is clear title and the bottom line in costs and points.

Exactly. Which is why had you ever bought from me you would know I give each buyer and each seller the bottom line in dollars, go over everything, and put everything in my contracts. I work hard to make sure everyone is clear, comfortable and happy on both sides or it doesn't happen. I hope someday you and I will have the chance to work together so I can prove that to you.

Kind regards,
Shontell

[Dean]

Shontell, I don't have want to argue with you, but if I must. What DVC does IS the point, they do prorate the first year for the reasons I stated in my previous note. To say there is a different standard for resale than what DVC does is unreasonable. If you stop paying your dues they will cut you off before you use year, not at it, unless your use year is so early that they will cut you slack enought to get there. The quotes I gave prove that DVC charges dues on a Calendar year not use year, if you chose not to see it, that's your loss plus your customers. Maybe all those people need a refund.

[Shontell_Crawford]

Dean,

We aren't arguing. We are both seeing and saying the same thing, just in a different manner.

Yes, Disney dues are paid on a Calendar year, for that year's points. In January 2002, each member pays a bill for the points he is allocated for the 2002 use year. Some members use year's start in February, while others start in December. Regardless, everyone pays the previous January.

Now, had you ever been a customer of mine, you would know that is the way the dues are paid, and the way they are presented on my contracts. Apparently you would rather attack my professionalism and question my knowledge before even dealing with me.

If I were "mistreating" my clients, Disney would have reprimanded me a long time ago, not to mention the State of Florida by which my profession is regulated.

If I even remotely felt like I was "wronging" my clients, I would be the first to stand up and admit it. If you knew me, you might agree rather than attack my character and professionalism.

This will be my last post on this issue.
I'm sure you will need to have the last word on the matter, I hope it will be a kind one.

Best regards,
Shontell

[ralphd]

The preceding has been a paid political advertisement.

What is the topic of this thread?

ralphd:D :D :D :D

[DVC1996]

I got a headache reading this thread but just wanted to comment that in 1996 we decided against a resale ( Not from Shontelll...btw) because we were going to have to pay dues on a whole year of points with an inability to use those points ( because it didn't coincide with our vacation times) and would be unable to bank the points because of the rules regarding banking. Obviously, this wasn't the right resale for us. It might have been a bargain for someone else who could use those points before the use year ended.

[Dean]

Since you're giving me the last word, I'll take it, LOL. I'm not sure about attacking you, only stating what I feel is correct but I can see how you could feel that way. You are saying everyone pays in Jan "for their points" and I'm saying this is flatly wrong. Therefore we are not saying the same thing unless I've misread your posts on this board and on DVCtalk. Under your terms, you would pay a full years fees year one and none the last year. Under those employed by DVC and what I am saying is you would pay a prorated amount year one and a prorated amount the last year, any yes I do have it directly from DVC but not in writing. It doesn't matter if you start from the beginning and finish with DVC in 2042, you would pay the same in the long run. If you buy resale, it matters by as many as $3.66 per point at BW for a December use year, assuming all upcoming points and no others. Obviously the overall package is the key for any individual buyer and the final product and price is the ultimate decision maker.

I've talked to DVC admin about this in the past as did the salesperson at Century 21 that sold me my second OKW contract in 1998. He was surprised when DVC told him that the dues are for the Calendar Year and NOT the use year and that paying only a prorated amount based on the use year and points availability was appropriate.

As far your professionalism, I have never heard anyone dissaisfied with your service. Many have spoken kindly of you on this board and on DVCtalk. Even after this discussion between you and I a year or so ago on DVCtalk which went similar to this one, I've given your contact info to a number of people and see no reason for that to change. It does however irk me when the one most of us feel should know the most about DVC resales is giving out one piece of incorrect information when I feel they should know the correct info. Might I suggest you ask your contacts at DVC two very direct and easy questions. 1. Are the first years dues prorated when bought through Disney? and 2. are the fees for a calendar year or use year? I think you'll be surprised to hear yes and calendar year.

[Dean]

I've always prided myself on being non personal and sticking to the facts even on difficult topics. I failed in this instance and feel badly about that. While I still maintain the facts as I stated them, I am truly sorry for the personal nature included. I think Shontell and I both let out past experiences and strong feelings influence our positions. For that I am truly sorry and apologize to the list, moderators, webmasters and most importantly; Shontell.

[WebmasterDoc]

I'll chime in on this one and agree 100% with Dean.

Disney will always prorate the maintenance fees based on the remaining time in the calendar year. They base the fees on a calendar year- regardless of the use year.

I have purchased 3 resales and have argued this same point with the realtor involved. I have also not considered some resales based on the same principle.

While the owner has paid the maintenance fee for the entire calendar year, he was charged maintenance fees based on a prorated schedule from DVC. If points have been borrowed from the next use year, the maintenance fees will still be owed in January for the same fees. If banked fees are involved, consideration can be made for the lack of fees on those points.

While the maintenance fees often are not a deal breaker, they should be figured into the financial package being considered!

IMHO!