Monorail Riding

[dpuck1998]

Before the accident, Disney guests could ride in the front cabin of the monorail with the pilot, but a Magic Kingdom memo said that the practice has been suspended -- “Out of respect for the monorail pilot during this difficult time, we are not allowing guests to ride in the front cabin.”

FYI

[Blumonkeyboy]

Thats to bad. Id still do it.

[Michele]

I can certainly understand suspending the practice at this time. People would surely be making comments, speculations etc to the current drivers, not something they should have to deal with at this diffcult time.

[ADP]

I'm sure there will be more changes as a result of this accident. Who knows we may even see new monorail cars (Mark VII).

[Blumonkeyboy]

Thats what im hoping. I know this sounds bad, but i dont know how to day it better...
If one good thing comes from this we may get new monorails. Aweful i know.

[mommyceratops]

Not surprised but still selfishly sad about it if they stop it permanently.

[mikelan6]

This was one of the great things about the monorail. I hope they allow it again soon.

[polineedyan]

we rode up front, but werent treated very well. it wasnt austin, btw..i didnt care for it. probably just ride coach from now on..

[noladave]

in this day and age, I can't imagine any insurance company willing to underwrite coverage that would allow passengers in the front. Disney could self insure, but that would be a pretty significant risk.

Unless there's an actual physical change to the trains, I doubt that you will be allowed to sit up front again.

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

That is sad. Me, DH and our son got to ride in the front last trip and it was an amazing treat! I dont want to sound like a bandwagon jumper but me and DH are both pretty sure Austin was our driver when we sat up front. I remember him talking about school and how much he loved his job and explaining every little thing to our son and even gave him those cards. He still carries it around to this day. We all hope we get to do this again.

[sherabby]

We just rode in the front cab on June 25th. We didn't have Austin though.

[Anna77]

I'm wondering should there have been a computer system that alerts the driver when there's anther monorail on the track. Or perhaps a laser or something that would stop the monorail when one gets too close to another.


Anna

[dvcmember00]

I don't think people should be riding up at the front of the monorail, now or ever. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they did this for kids, but it's just too dangerous.

[Jillinwonderland]

Understandable. I'm being selfish here and hope it isnt a perminant change though. Also yes new monorail cars hoping for that too.

[mking624]

It's probably for the sake of the investigation going on. Once everything clears, I don't doubt they'll start allowing it again.

[disneymayz]

I'm sure there will be more changes as a result of this accident. Who knows we may even see new monorail cars (Mark VII).

They could not use the Mark VII cause it only opens on one side. Disney would have to wait for the Mark VIII to be released. This info was given to me by our driver , Austin!

I think it is extremly funny that due to this people are now saying that it is too dangerous to ride up front. Where were these threads before this happened?

Sitting up front is cool. The likely hood of this happening again is slim. The monorail system has a better safety record than any other transit. If I am correct this will make 1 death since the monorails started running.

[MickeyWanaBe]

I'm wondering should there have been a computer system that alerts the driver when there's anther monorail on the track. Or perhaps a laser or something that would stop the monorail when one gets too close to another.


Anna

Safe train spacing is maintained via a moving blocklight system, referred to as MAPO, installed in the cab of each train.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System

See Train Safety section. ;)

[*NikkiBell*]

I honestly do not understand how sitting up front is any more dangerous than sitting in the front seat of a car. -shrug-

Hopefully this will change after the investigation is completed.

[disneymayz]

I honestly do not understand how sitting up front is any more dangerous than sitting in the front seat of a car. -shrug-

Hopefully this will change after the investigation is completed.

I was wondering the same!

[imacdan]

My son and I had the chance to ride with the pilot last year. We had a great time but, I certainly understand why Disney has suspended it.

[Michele]

Based on the statement released, I don't think this is being suspended entirely due to safety concerns. They say, 'out of respect for the monorail pilot', which I assume to mean the present pilots, not the deceased.

Can you imagine how many unwelcome comments, questions, conversations the pilots will have to endure. Some people don't know how to keep their mouth shut in these circumstances, and it would be very hard for the pilots, who knew Austin personally, to hear.

[SamSam]

Any other mode of transportation is more dangerous, as is just walking across the street.

[rachaface]

Before the accident, Disney guests could ride in the front cabin of the monorail with the pilot, but a Magic Kingdom memo said that the practice has been suspended -- “Out of respect for the monorail pilot during this difficult time, we are not allowing guests to ride in the front cabin.”

FYI

as well they should - to be honest, i'd be surprised of families who would want to do that right now, just out of fear. I still can't believe it happened :sad1:

[SeattleMark]

I'm wondering should there have been a computer system that alerts the driver when there's anther monorail on the track. Or perhaps a laser or something that would stop the monorail when one gets too close to another.


Anna

There is: From MousePlanet (http://www.mouseplanet.com/8897/Walt_Disney_World_Resort_Update)

It appears that the monorails were approaching the end of their operating day and that Monorail Pink was attempting to reposition itself to go back to the monorail barn for the night. For Epcot monorails, this requires leaving the TTC station and passing a track switch, then backing up to the Magic Kingdom Express monorail station. Once fully on the Magic Kingdom Express beam, the monorail continues in reverse past the Polynesian and Grand Floridian resorts and the front entrance to the Magic Kingdom before it backs up through another track switch that takes it to the monorail barn.

The pilot of Monorail Pink was apparently backing up, thinking that the monorail was heading for an empty Magic Kingdom Express station, but the switch had not moved to transfer it, and so Monorail Pink backed up into the Epcot station that was already occupied by Monorail Purple, which had already loaded and was about to depart the station when Pink slammed backward into it. Since the collision system is reportedly disabled during track switching, there would have been no automated warning. Because the curve on which the Epcot/Magic Kingdom Express switch is located is quite dark at night, and the tracks curve back into the station, it would have been very difficult for the pilot of Monorail Pink to visually notice if he was on the wrong track. MousePlanet has received an unconfirmed report that there may have been some miscommunication between the monorail shop and the monorail control center regarding the position of the switch which, if true, could have meant then the monorail control center would have given Monorail Pink the go-ahead to reverse through the switch and back through the station while the switch was still connected to the Epcot loop.

The monorails have a fail-safe system called MaPo that prevents two trains from getting too close to each other, and actually applies emergency brakes if a driver tries to continue through a warning. However, both trains had had to override their MaPo warnings as standard operating procedure for the maneuvers that they were attempting to undertake. In order for Monorail Purple to enter the station while Monorail Pink was still engaging in its switch procedure, Purple would have had to override its MaPo shutdown. In order for Monorail Pink to reverse through the switch, it would also have had to override MaPo, as the track switches automatically cause a MaPo alert. While in override mode, the maximum speed of each monorail is 15 miles per hour, whether moving forward or backward.

[Mickey's Best Girl]

Can you imagine how many unwelcome comments, questions, conversations the pilots will have to endure. Some people don't know how to keep their mouth shut in these circumstances, and it would be very hard for the pilots, who knew Austin personally, to hear.

That is exaclty what I was thinking.

For the time being, I think it's the right call.

[djdavies75]

I, too, would prefer to be able to ride with the monorail driver. However, I don't think Disney should allow that any time soon.

Even though the likelihood of monorail injury is infinitesimal, Disney prides itself on safety of its guests. It does not want to be perceived as irresponsible in this regard. Plus, after last weekend's incident, I suspect the cost of a future guest-harming monorail incident got exponentially higher.

It seems to me that keeping guests out of the cockpit is safer because:

1. Guests distract the pilot from his or her job of driving the monorail. Regaling guests with stories is fun for both sides but certainly takes some of his or her attention.

2. As we saw on Sunday, if and end of the monorail hits something, worse things happen to the end of the train than to other parts.

These factors probably do not increase safety that much, but when the costs are so high, it makes sense to avert even minor risks. Disney will not lose any guests by doing this, and I think the diehards like us will be sad but very understanding.

[doconeill]

Distractions are generally mitigated by the blocking system. The MAPO system will automatically stop the monorail if it gets within so many "blocks" of another. If the monorail must operate with MAPO override while occupied (which should be rare to never), then I would expect the monorail pilot's full attention to be on operation and politely ask the guests to not distract.

However, I fully expected that guests up front would at least temporarily be suspended, not just for respect of the pilots, but also to evaluate the safety aspects. Several people claimed that the cockpits are designed to collapse to protect the integrity of the main cabin, and the pilots know this - but the guests do not so I find it incredibly doubtful in general. They may not need to meet FRA passenger train requirements, but they would probably need to meet some level safety, and that may need reevaluation.

I have no problem with it being suspended for either reason, but I do hope that it will be allowed again.

[jediobiwan]

It is tragic that this happened, but I don't think people truly realize what happened and what safety systems are in place on the monorail. I was there until exactly a week before the accident and we rode in the front several times. During the day this would never happen. The accident only occurred because the monorail was switching tracks and because it was dark. Whether it was human error that first said the switch was on or electronic error, several employees had the power to stop it from happening. However, I think now is actually probably the safest time to ride the monorail. Disney will be very vigilent in making sure that this NEVER happens again. That said, I respect the policy of not allowing people to ride up front. I imagine it is a difficult, stressful, and sad time for monorail staff.

As for helping to prevent this in the future, it seems like they could (short of designing new trains themselves) add on essentially a bumper. How to do it weight effeciently and aesthetically will be the difficulty, but it would help prevent the cockpit from being crushed. And as already pointed out, the monorail can only do 15 mph during a MAPO overide, so the bumper would not have to be capable of stopping a 40 mph head on collision.

[FireDancer]

I think it is good to suspend the practice until the investigation is completed. As other have said, I think the questions would get to the pilots after a while. There is also the possibility a pilot may make a statement accidentally that could be used against Disney in a lawsuit, possibly in response to an innocent question.

From some postings in the news and on blogs it seems that there was not real crash structure to the front car. I think that is the thing that will be changed. If the normal practice is to travel at 15mph when moving trains in the opposite direction than the front and back cars should have sufficient crash structures for at least that speed. If there is any negligence in design I think this is where it is. I would have never believed that those cars were so unprotected.

I would have no qualms about riding in the front. In the 38 years that the monorail has been running there has been exactly 1 fatality. I would take those odds over car travel any day.

[jediobiwan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the "front of the train" thing is actually a misnomer, right? Because both ends have cockpits, it is just a matter of which way they are going?

[doconeill]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the "front of the train" thing is actually a misnomer, right? Because both ends have cockpits, it is just a matter of which way they are going?

I believe "front" generally refers to the control end at the time. i.e., if the pilot is in control from one end but it is moving in the opposite direction, they are reversing and the "leading" end is the back.

[WaltD4Me]

Are you able to right in the front car at Disneyland? If so, I wonder if they have stopped allowing it there too?

I completely understand not allowing it right now, but I really hope this isn't a permanent change. Hopefully even more safeguards will be implemented to make sure something like this never happens again.

[cosmos]

I'm sure there will be more changes as a result of this accident. Who knows we may even see new monorail cars (Mark VII).

One thing we noticed today was that it only took 14 minutes for a round trip, Contemporary to Contemporary. Things seemed to work like clock work, no delays at the stations.

[aspen37]

I hope it isn't permanent too. I have been in a car accident before and I still ride in the front of the car.

[miss missy]

I would hope they would do that until they figure out what happened and correct it.

[GoofyiiFan]

I rode in the front once. But I think its for the best. They don't want guests to die too in a monorail crash. That would be horrible.

[tlcoke]

I hope it is temporary. I expect it is currently suspended for the investigation, and until, they determine what went tragically wrong and what proceedures to put in place to keep something like that from every happening again. It is also out of respect to the current drivers to give them time to grieve for the loss of their co-worker, without the inquisitive public asking questions.

I remember my first ride in the front and I was an adult. I think it is a magical place to ride.

[Ellen aka Snow White]

I too would hope this is done only out of respect for the drivers - at this time it is needed.
If Disney does change and no longer allow guest to ride up front I would feel THEY were questioning the safety aspect of it. I was telling my sister I felt they would continue to allow it as that meant they stood behind the safety of the monorail.
I would still take my chances and ride up front- to me it is much safer then riding the buses with no seat belt going ?how? fast! Those drivers scare me sometimes!
Ellen

[fakereadhed]

For those who think it's dangerous- do you ride up front in your car? Far more dangerous!

[exwdwcm]

They could not use the Mark VII cause it only opens on one side. Disney would have to wait for the Mark VIII to be released. This info was given to me by our driver , Austin!

I think it is extremly funny that due to this people are now saying that it is too dangerous to ride up front. Where were these threads before this happened?

Sitting up front is cool. The likely hood of this happening again is slim. The monorail system has a better safety record than any other transit. If I am correct this will make 1 death since the monorails started running.
i totally agree- but then again hindsight is 20/20 huh? I would ride up front again, heck, now is when they will be overly cautious and really on the ball to prevent an accident again. I am only sorry it took such a devastating event to do so. The only comfort I can take is that this young man really loved his job and making guests happy. My prayers are with his family.

[fakereadhed]

Not to stir up trouble, but what do you think would happen if you were sitting in the other sections of the monorail when that accident happened? My first thought was I'm so glad nobody was sitting/standing behind the driver too- or babies in strollers. That said, Disney has a great safety record and I'm looking forward to riding the monorail anywhere they will let me.

[katscradle]

Oh this is such sad news.
We were away for the weekend and came home last night to find out about this.
My thoughts and prayers go out to Austin's family, friends, and co-worker's at this time. :grouphug:
I am hoping that Disney does not suspend the practice of letting guests ride in the front, in the future.
This has been something that we have done with our buy's every time we go to Disney.
However I do think Disney is doing the right thing by the other monorail drivers by temp. suspending rides in the front for the time being.
The other driver's need some time to grieve for their co-worker.
They need some time just to cope with what has happened. :grouphug:

[MineMail]

I read on another board that the fronts/ends of the trains are designed to "crush" upon impact, the way a car's front end will in an accident. It's to protect the passenger compartments and prevent derailings. Obviously, anyone in the front compartment itself is in danger. Seems to me that they should have a safety zone inside, but perhaps the pilot who died didn't even see the other train coming?

That design would justify the "no riders" situation, but I hope not. I really enjoy riding up front; I've only been able to do it three or four times in the last 20+ years.

I feel like the "no riders" is more to prevent discussions about the accident with the current drivers. It would be a very uncomfortable situation, sitting there with a couple of kids while the mother grills you about safety issues and the Accident. Just mho.

I would hope that one of the changes they make is to have the monorails performing this "out of service" maneuver double-staffed - one pilot or at least an "observer" at each end.

If a pilot had been in the rear pilot cab, s/he would have SEEN the purple monorail in the station and hit the brakes, averting the tragedy.

Adding some kind of "superbright lights" to be used during these maneuvers would also help. Backing up a trailer in the dark is tricky and you don't have great visibility. Looking at those very-small sideview mirrors in the photos, I wonder if that's a design flaw?

I know it's more expensive to make changes, but isn't it worth it to prevent this kind of thing from happening ever again?

May Austin rest in peace and I hope his family/friends can eventually find solace. Prayers and condolences.

[chickie]

I read on another board that the fronts/ends of the trains are designed to "crush" upon impact, the way a car's front end will in an accident. It's to protect the passenger compartments and prevent derailings. Obviously, anyone in the front compartment itself is in danger. Seems to me that they should have a safety zone inside, but perhaps the pilot who died didn't even see the other train coming?

I was kinda wondering if a bumper system would have prevented this tragedy. But this makes sense, as an impact of a crash on the passenger cars would be much more drastic if bumpers were in place, and there could have been many more injuries for passengers if they were in place. It's very sad, though, that the driver is in such a vulnerable position. I always thought that this would be my dream job at Disney - to drive a monorail every day.

This accident was truly a tragedy, and I feel very deeply for Austin's family, friends and coworkers. I'm so very sorry that this happened. :sad1:

[PleaseStandClear95]

Slightly off topic - BUT...

There were times when the cab was not loaded.
During driver training, bad weather, if anything on the train was operating 100% correctly, and in some cases if any train on the same beam was operating 100% correctly.

While the front cab was usually loaded there were these instances that did occur often.

The driver's first responsibility is to drive the train, then listen and talk on the radio, then spiel to the guests on board, THEN talk to those in the cab.

I always enjoyed having a cab full of folks unless we were under some strange weather clearance protocol or "manual" clearances and then I could not imagine trying to concentrate on driving and clearance with 4 folks asking questions and having fun.