Ft Worth Texas Gay Bar Raid

[zeitzeuge]

Just when you think that the world is moving on past the times of the Stonewall Riots, think again. Has this been on the news nationwide or just in Texas?

Here's the most comprehensive and unbiased story I could find (http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=25947).

Here's an article with some quotes from patrons who were there (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/localnews/columnists/jfloyd/stories/063009dnmetfloyd.3bddb2c.html).

Here's a clip from another story giving the condition of the one man who is in intensive care:

Chad Gibson, the 26-year-old Fort Worth resident who wound up in John Peter Smith Hospital in the intensive care unit after a law enforcement raid on a gay bar over the weekend, remains in danger with a blood clot on his brain. Dallas Voice senior editor Tammye Nash reports on the newspaper's blog, Instant Tea, that Gibson's sister, Kristy Morgan, told her a CAT scan had revealed the blood clot has quit growing, but it is still considered a life-threatening situation. Until the clot dissolves, there is a danger that the clot could break off and cause severe brain damage or death. A rupture of the clot could also start bleeding again.


The blood clot could take from six months to two years to dissolve, according to the update. Gibson, shown in a picture from facebook.com, will likely remain in the hospital for the rest of the week and will be referred to a neurosurgeon for follow-up treatment. Surgery is reportedly not being considered at this time.

Discussion is under way about the establishment of a medical fund to assist Gibson. His hospital bill will undoubtedly be enormous, and it is unlikely that he will ever recover any of those medical expenses from the City of Fort Worth. Police officers and other government employees are protected by state law from liability in any legal action that arises in connection with the performance of their official duties, unless they are involved in misconduct or broke laws.

According to police, this is what they said happened to prompt the use of force:

Officers then went to the Rainbow Lounge, which had opened about a week ago. They encountered two drunk people who made "sexually explicit movements" toward officers and another who grabbed a TABC agent's groin, according to the police report.


No one was arrested for assault but about half a dozen people were arrested on charges of public intoxication, according to police records. Police Chief Jeff Halstead said Gibson was the patron who grabbed at the agent's groin.


Here's people you can even contact to contact;

Councilmember W.B. "Zim" Zimmerman
817-392-8803
District3@fortworthgov.org

Councilmember Danny Scarth
817-392-8804
District4@fortworthgov.org

Councilmember Frank Moss
817-392-8805
District5@fortworthgov.org

Councilmember Jungus Jordan
817-392-8806
District6@fortworthgov.org

Councilmember Carter Burdette
817-392-8807
District7@fortworthgov.org
And send an email to the mayor, Mike Moncreif, who has yet to make a statement:

Mayor Mike Moncrief
817-392-6118
mike.moncrief@fortworthgov.org

[rpmdfw]

I've caught reports of it on Advocate.com and afterelton

And on the 40th Anniverasary of the Stonewall Riots, to boot!

:sad2:

Just shows that no matter how much progress we've made, we still have a long way to go.

[jlewisinsyr]

I think its important to note this was not the only establisment that was targeted in the random review.

I see both sides of this, and I don't think we'll ever know if someone really did grab the officer, or how hard the officer hit the person. It is illegal to touch a uniformed officer in their line of duty, and if you're too drunk to realize that, I'm sorry, you should be arrested, but at the same time proper restraint should always be used, and maybe it was, or wasn't. Its possible the person who was hit was hit harder then intended, or was hit intentionally hard.

I think its too early to pass judgement on this although it may currently appear that the officers were too aggressive.

[PghLybrt]

I don't know, IF you re walking in with a handful of zip ties then you are looking for trouble.

I am so glad that I do not have to goto Texas!!! (Sad that the Passion lost, but glad I do not have to goto the championship game)

[rpmdfw]

I think its important to note this was not the only establisment that was targeted in the random review.

I see both sides of this, and I don't think we'll ever know if someone really did grab the officer, or how hard the officer hit the person. It is illegal to touch a uniformed officer in their line of duty, and if you're too drunk to realize that, I'm sorry, you should be arrested, but at the same time proper restraint should always be used, and maybe it was, or wasn't. Its possible the person who was hit was hit harder then intended, or was hit intentionally hard.

I think its too early to pass judgement on this although it may currently appear that the officers were too aggressive.


You think that the straight folks didn't talk back to the officers when their hangouts were raided? Speaking as someone who is proud to say that I'm former Dallasite (and I'll be a "Texan" forever), I'd be willing to bet they got a lot more flack in straight bars than they did at the gay one.

If the women in the crowd had been "sexually explicit" to the officers would they be lying in the hospital with life threatening brain injuries, too?

Somehow I doubt it.

[jlewisinsyr]

You think that the straight folks didn't talk back to the officers when their hangouts were raided? Speaking as someone who is proud to say that I'm former Dallasite, I'd be willing to bet they got a lot more flack in straight bars than they did at the gay one.

If the women in the crowd had been "sexually explicit" to the officers would they be lying in the hospital with life threatening brain injuries, too?

Somehow I doubt it.

You don't know if the officers would or wouldn't act differently. You don't know if any of the officers were gay or bi. We don't know if there were similar or smaller altercations at the other bars that were targeted. Additionally, I think right away the police arriving at a gay bar generates fear and anger from gay people because of Stonewall.

I'm not condoning aggresive acts, but lets not pretend the patrons were completely innocent and lets not pretend that we all were there when it happened and know what actually took place, and lets not jump to conclusions. Notice in the article it specifically mentions that the patron who is in the hospital hit his head during the arrest. Not that the officers hit him, he hit his head, most likely on the ground, maybe on the back of a squad car, but it wasn't him getting beat with a baton.

[jlewisinsyr]

I don't know, IF you re walking in with a handful of zip ties then you are looking for trouble.

Why, why should you be? You are doing your job that is legally sanctioned to inspect and arrest for public intoxication (and most likely also underage drinking although not specifically mentioned).

Sorry, going into a situation where you most likely are going to find what you are looking for, unprepared, is not how you approach a situation.

Now walking into the bar with guns drawn or batons whirling, that would be a different story as you do not believe you are going to find a shoot out taking place or people attempting to forcefully attack you, but in the case of public intoxication at a bar, pretty reasonable that you will be arresting/citing people for that, so having handcuffs or zipties (often used in public locations) available is fair.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

The story I saw on the news last night said the guy was shoved up against the wall (standing) and he was handcuffed. Then once he was outside he fell down and hit his head (not sure if he was too drunk to walk, or stumbled over the curb). They said since he was handcuffed he couldn't use his hands to break the fall.

I have no clue what happened. The story keeps changing - first they were saying it was Ft. Worth police who hurt the guy, now the police are saying it was TABC. When the story FIRST came out they were saying the bar owner KNEW the agents and officers were going to be there, and it stemmed from issues with continuing to serve patrons who were aleady visibly drunk. It's all very confusing. Of course everybody is blaming everybody else.

I hate that the guy was injured. :guilty: I hope he has a full recovery.

[jlewisinsyr]

The story I saw on the news last night said the guy was shoved up against the wall (standing) and he was handcuffed. Then once he was outside he fell down and hit his head (not sure if he was too drunk to walk, or stumbled over the curb). They said since he was handcuffed he couldn't use his hands to break the fall.

I have no clue what happened. The story keeps changing - first they were saying it was Ft. Worth police who hurt the guy, now the police are saying it was TABC. When the story FIRST came out they were saying the bar owner KNEW the agents and officers were going to be there, and it stemmed from issues with continuing to serve patrons who were aleady visibly drunk. It's all very confusing. Of course everybody is blaming everybody else.

I hate that the guy was injured. :guilty: I hope he has a full recovery.

I think you hit the point I was trying to make, the story still is developing, details spanning out. Its to early to brush blame on the police, when it very well could be the other way around, and from reading what I have, it definately seems the police acted in a professional manner in respect to dealing with everything.

I'm sure there is mixed "fault", like any case, but in my eyes right now the fault is more on the patrons, but I'm not judging either because it is far too soon and details are still coming out.

[zeitzeuge]

Maybe everyone should live in this state as a Gay person and be subjected to some of the treatment that we've been subjected to. Harrassment on the street in the gayborhood. People being arrested or fined for "appearing" to be drunk without being given a sobriety test. People harrassed for standing on the street talking. Cops calling people names. Cops using brute force when none was needed. These are typical things I have personally seen and dealt with.

I've been mugged twice in the area. Each time one or more of the cops were sneering, laughing and not taking my situation seriously, asking me what I was doing, where I was, if I had asked the guy to follow me, etc.

The one time I was held at gunpoint in my apartment 8 years ago, the police officer accused me of bringing the guy home for sex and that I was probably "asking for it". The only thing he did was drive around the apartment looking for the guy and came back and told me it was a lost cause.

In both muggings and the case of being held at gunpoint in my apartment for 45 minutes, getting hit over the head with the butt of a gun and kicked over and over, the cops did absolutely nothing in all 3 cases.

So maybe we have reason to believe that the cops possibly did something wrong. YES, the story keeps developing and I'm sure we're finding out more and more as time goes. YES, I understand that we can't make assumptions until we hear the whole story.

BUT. Most all of the accounts told by patrons are the same. The police in Ft Worth are known for this type of behavior. I can't see a bunch of men in a gay bar EVEN IF they were drunk, seeing 6 cops come walking in and decide, "Hey, I think I'm going to try and get a piece of one of these hotties.". I mean come on. Even in my most drunken state, I'm not that stupid and I would hope we can give the patrons a little more respect then that.

The only reason I posted this was because I feel that what happened ON the anniversary of Stonewall Riots, was horrendous. No one and I mean NO ONE should ever be treated as these men were treated. One is in the hospital. Remember that.

[rpmdfw]

Maybe everyone should live in this state as a Gay person and be subjected to some of the treatment that we've been subjected to. Harrassment on the street in the gayborhood. People being arrested or fined for "appearing" to be drunk without being given a sobriety test. People harrassed for standing on the street talking. Cops calling people names. Cops using brute force when none was needed. These are typical things I have personally seen and dealt with.

I've been mugged twice in the area. Each time one or more of the cops were sneering, laughing and not taking my situation seriously, asking me what I was doing, where I was, if I had asked the guy to follow me, etc.

The one time I was held at gunpoint in my apartment 8 years ago, the police officer accused me of bringing the guy home for sex and that I was probably "asking for it". The only thing he did was drive around the apartment looking for the guy and came back and told me it was a lost cause.

In both muggings and the case of being held at gunpoint in my apartment for 45 minutes, getting hit over the head with the butt of a gun and kicked over and over, the cops did absolutely nothing in all 3 cases.

So maybe we have reason to believe that the cops possibly did something wrong. YES, the story keeps developing and I'm sure we're finding out more and more as time goes. YES, I understand that we can't make assumptions until we hear the whole story.

BUT. Most all of the accounts told by patrons are the same. The police in Ft Worth are known for this type of behavior. I can't see a bunch of men in a gay bar EVEN IF they were drunk, seeing 6 cops come walking in and decide, "Hey, I think I'm going to try and get a piece of one of these hotties.". I mean come on. Even in my most drunken state, I'm not that stupid and I would hope we can give the patrons a little more respect then that.

The only reason I posted this was because I feel that what happened ON the anniversary of Stonewall Riots, was horrendous. No one and I mean NO ONE should ever be treated as these men were treated. One is in the hospital. Remember that.

And the fact that the make such a point to say that the patrons were "sexually explicit" in their language. So what? Would that have mattered in a straight bar? Again, I don't think so.

It's almost like they're using that as justification for things having gotten as far out of hand as they did.

[jlewisinsyr]

No one and I mean NO ONE should ever be treated as these men were treated. One is in the hospital. Remember that.

I do remember that one is in the hospital, but it wasn't from being beaten, its from hitting his head, most likely on the ground from either tripping (which happens even without cuffs) or being so drunk he fell over.

I still have yet to see any proof of any misconduct by the officers or "mistreatment" everyone is calling out. Sure people will jump on the brutality band wagon, but it doesn't come across that way when looking at it subjectively.

I am sorry your have been mistreated, but that doesn't mean every situation stems from the same.

And the fact that the make such a point to say that the patrons were "sexually explicit" in their language. So what? Would that have mattered in a straight bar? Again, I don't think so.

It's almost like they're using that as justification for things having gotten as far out of hand as they did.

It wasn't just in language it was in actions too, don't forget that part. And being sexually explicit in language can be a crime it can be viewed as soliciting sex, etc.

[rpmdfw]

I do remember that one is in the hospital, but it wasn't from being beaten, its from hitting his head, most likely on the ground from either tripping (which happens even without cuffs) or being so drunk he fell over.

Or from being pushed. :rolleyes:

It's just as possible as tripping or drunkenly falling over. Just saying.

And Zeit's not exagerating about police behavior in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

And it's WORSE in Texas outside the big cities. :scared:

No, we don't have PROOF that it's the fault of the authorities, but those of us with first hand experience know how to read between the lines a bit better. Give us credit for having been there.

[zeitzeuge]

And the fact that the make such a point to say that the patrons were "sexually explicit" in their language. So what? Would that have mattered in a straight bar? Again, I don't think so.

It's almost like they're using that as justification for things having gotten as far out of hand as they did.

Exactly. I'm sure if this wasn't the first bar they went to, they probably had already dealt with a bunch of other angry and sexually explicit patrons. That doesn't excuse them from getting to the gay bar and doing what they did.

I guess this is just a hot issue for me because I've dealt with it and I've seen friends who have personally been treated this way.

Things got out of hand at this bar for whatEVER reason and both the patrons AND the police need to own up to it.

[zeitzeuge]

You know what just close the thread. I was hoping that this would be a great way to share and get the news out about what has happened in OUR gay community and garner some support and rally the troops so to speak. My father, two uncles and three cousins were police officers, so I'm VERY pro police. It's not that, so my bad.

It just isn't worth getting into an argument or debate over. I'll just remember next time before I bring this type of news to the forum to let people know what still goes on in this country. I suppose some could argue that the raids at Stonewall were justified in some manner and that the police were provoked if you dig deep enough and talk to the right people. I'm sure many of those drag queens fell over onto the ground on their own accord.

Not everyone lives in the gay bubbles of San Francisco or New York City where you might not have to live in fear of having your local watering hole raided by police to find drunk people.

The only times I've been in a bar that was raided was because there 1) was a drug bust or 2) there were reports of sexual activity going on in the backroom.

I was not involved in either. :)

[soulmates]

And the fact that the make such a point to say that the patrons were "sexually explicit" in their language. So what? Would that have mattered in a straight bar? Again, I don't think so.

It's almost like they're using that as justification for things having gotten as far out of hand as they did.

Sadly, your right. I've BEEN in bars where women FLASH their breasts and NONE of them were arrested! I've seen police officers come in and just do a quick check and see drunk women dancing around...again, nothing. Mind you , these were straight bars. :confused3

[jlewisinsyr]

Give us credit for having been there.

Do you honestly believe that you're the only ones who have ever been in Texas or been repressed. I've traveled to the Dallas area a few times for business and although it is nothing like NY or Orlando, don't make a broad assumption either.

[jlewisinsyr]

You know what just close the thread. I was hoping that this would be a great way to share and get the news out about what has happened in OUR gay community and garner some support and rally the troops so to speak. My father, two uncles and three cousins were police officers, so I'm VERY pro police. It's not that, so my bad.

It just isn't worth getting into an argument or debate over. I'll just remember next time before I bring this type of news to the forum to let people know what still goes on in this country. I suppose some could argue that the raids at Stonewall were justified in some manner and that the police were provoked if you dig deep enough and talk to the right people. I'm sure many of those drag queens fell over onto the ground on their own accord.

Not everyone lives in the gay bubbles of San Francisco or New York City where you might not have to live in fear of having your local watering hole raided by police to find drunk people.


The last time I checked this is a DISCUSSION board, and in posting anything you're going to get different opinions. Just because they are different doesn't mean they are right or wrong.

I think the point of discussing is share varied opinions, and like we ask of others, keep an open mind. Things might not be the way they first seem. This can be because of media hype, incorrect information, etc.

In regards to raids, we have them here in Syracuse looking for mostly underage drinking (note I don't live in NYC, I live about 5 hours north in a much less progressive city). It happens in Gay and Straight bars, people are arrested in both.

[rpmdfw]

Do you honestly believe that you're the only ones who have ever been in Texas or been repressed. I've traveled to the Dallas area a few times for business and although it is nothing like NY or Orlando, don't make a broad assumption either.

No. But having traveled to the Dallas area isn't the same as having lived there and having dealt with the police in ways that Ziet described. He has. So have I. That DOES give a local's perspective on the situation at hand and maybe, JUST MAYBE a better ability to judge what's going on despite conflicting news reports, that's all.

Am I SURE of what happened there, no. Of course not. But I do have enough information to make an "educated guess" about how things operate in that area. That's all I'm saying.

[zeitzeuge]

Do you honestly believe that you're the only ones who have ever been in Texas or been repressed. I've traveled to the Dallas area a few times for business and although it is nothing like NY or Orlando, don't make a broad assumption either.

So you've traveled to Dallas on business a few times. That doesn't constitute living here for years to see what it's like. Just sayin'. I just don't see why you have to come into this thread and immediately take the police departments side and discount the gay patrons without a blink of an eye?

It's like you're just discounting what happened as nothing but a bunch of drunken ****'s who probably asked for it.

[jlewisinsyr]

So you've traveled to Dallas on business a few times. That doesn't constitute living here for years to see what it's like. Just sayin'. I just don't see why you have to come into this thread and immediately take the police departments side and discount the gay patrons without a blink of an eye?

It's like you're just discounting what happened as nothing but a bunch of drunken ****'s who probably asked for it.

I didn't defend the police directly, I defended the fact we do not know the whole story, we are no better then anyone else jumping to conclusions about someone's actions or the chain of events. I countered the immediate assumptions that were put in place by you as well as others. Asking for an open mind, isn't that what we ask from others?

[zeitzeuge]

I didn't defend the police directly, I defended the fact we do not know the whole story, we are no better then anyone else jumping to conclusions about someone's actions or the chain of events. I countered the immediate assumptions that were put in place by you as well as others. Asking for an open mind, isn't that what we ask from others?

Yes, a forum is a place of discussion and debate. A place to share ideas and thoughts. Not a place to immediately jump in and play devil's advocate and trying to stir up the pot.

Did you read all of the articles, google search online for as much information that you can find, see the daily news reports here in the city and hear all the debates that are going on? Did you see how long it took for the police to make a statement? Did you see that they're finally making an investigation because they believe that there is posible wrong doing by the part of the Ft Worth police department? I'm guessing not.

There is an art to discussion and debating. There is a way of proposing questions and giving opinions.

Sorry, but when something happens to a gay person or group in my community I'm going to try and stand up for them and not immediately point the finger and lay blame upon them. If I find out that the patrons were gropping and fondling the officers like the Police Chief states they did and they can PROVE that the patrons were idiotic enough to pull such a stupid stunt, then I will say fine, shame on the patrons.

Using abusive measures to do so still isn't right no how matter how much you cover it up. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

[jlewisinsyr]

Yes, a forum is a place of discussion and debate. A place to share ideas and thoughts. Not a place to immediately jump in and play devil's advocate and trying to stir up the pot.

Did you read all of the articles, google search online for as much information that you can find, see the daily news reports here in the city and hear all the debates that are going on? Did you see how long it took for the police to make a statement? Did you see that they're finally making an investigation because they believe that there is posible wrong doing by the part of the Ft Worth police department? I'm guessing not.

There is an art to discussion and debating. There is a way of proposing questions and giving opinions.

Sorry, but when something happens to a gay person or group in my community I'm going to try and stand up for them and not immediately point the finger and lay blame upon them. If I find out that the patrons were gropping and fondling the officers like the Police Chief states they did and they can PROVE that the patrons were idiotic enough to pull such a stupid stunt, then I will say fine, shame on the patrons.

Using abusive measures to do so still isn't right no how matter how much you cover it up. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

I wasn't stirring the pot, and yes I have viewed/read a lot of the news coverage (both video and text). Proposing an alternative solution is a very effective way of presenting a different view/opinion. Sorry you seem offended that someone doesn't agree with you. You call it playing devil's advocate, I call it offering a different opinion, one that was not yet expressed in the posts, and I wasn't doing it just to be difficult, but because I could see, objectively both sides and think more needs to be understood before people start with the sexuality discrimination, police brutality charge.

In regards to no statement, I don't blame them, I think in this day and age, immediately coming out with a statement is often a BAD move as it causes knee jerk reaction and can be misconstrued. In regards to the action of follow-up and investigation, it has happened because of the push back and it rightfully so, it should be investigated. Maybe they should have agreed to investigate quicker. All the same, whatever is found out, be provided to the public so that the facts are understood.

As for jumping up and standing up for someone else, good for you, I don't do that, I try to look objectively before I blindly start defending someone elses actions, asking questions to generate thought, etc. I'd rather stand nuetral until more is understood about the situation then stand on one side yelling at the other and possibly have to fall back to a defensive position when different facts are released (again, not saying that it will happen that way, but as an example).

[zeitzeuge]

I wasn't stirring the pot, and yes I have viewed/read a lot of the news coverage (both video and text). Proposing an alternative solution is a very effective way of presenting a different view/opinion. Sorry you seem offended that someone doesn't agree with you. You call it playing devil's advocate, I call it offering a different opinion, one that was not yet expressed in the posts, and I wasn't doing it just to be difficult, but because I could see, objectively both sides and think more needs to be understood before people start with the sexuality discrimination, police brutality charge.

In regards to no statement, I don't blame them, I think in this day and age, immediately coming out with a statement is often a BAD move as it causes knee jerk reaction and can be misconstrued. In regards to the action of follow-up and investigation, it has happened because of the push back and it rightfully so, it should be investigated. Maybe they should have agreed to investigate quicker. All the same, whatever is found out, be provided to the public so that the facts are understood.

As for jumping up and standing up for someone else, good for you, I don't do that, I try to look objectively before I blindly start defending someone elses actions, asking questions to generate thought, etc. I'd rather stand nuetral until more is understood about the situation then stand on one side yelling at the other and possibly have to fall back to a defensive position when different facts are released (again, not saying that it will happen that way, but as an example).

Well then there's the difference between you and I as I'm sure there are scores of others.

I stand up for my beliefs and what I think is right. You decide to sit back and wait to see which side you should be on. Fine, good for you. You go ahead and play Switzerland. No offense to all our Swiss friends out there. But, I can't sit by and do that.

Oh and by the way, I'm not on the other side yelling. In my head I my be screaming at you, but as you an see, I've not used all caps once. Underlining, italics and bold, yes :)

Oh and thanks SO much for taking the whole point of this post, which was to inform people of what is going on in our community, offering it up for them to make their own decisions and cause them to take action or not, and turn it into a place for you to strike up a "debate/discussion" whether or not the patrons or police are at fault.

Thanks. That totally was my intention. :rolleyes1

[soulmates]

popcorn:: in the words of the most GORGEOUS man alive, Rob Lowe.."It's pretty outta hand"

Trying to lend my comic relief, to a sticky stituation!

[jlewisinsyr]

I stand up for my beliefs and what I think is right. You decide to sit back and wait to see which side you should be on. Fine, good for you. You go ahead and play Switzerland. No offense to all our Swiss friends out there. But, I can't sit by and do that.

There is a big difference to not taking sides at the first draw of a sword and never taking sides at all. I firmly stand in my beliefs, but I also believe in being fair and waiting for the facts to be on the table.

Oh and by the way, I'm not on the other side yelling. In my head I my be screaming at you, but as you an see, I've not used all caps once. Underlining, italics and bold, yes :)

Really...maybe you should have said, "yet."

... thanks SO much for taking the whole point of this post, which was to inform people of what is going on in our community, offering it up for them to make their own decisions and cause them to take action or not, and turn it into a place for you to strike up a "debate/discussion" whether or not the patrons or police are at fault.

And as you mention...offering them to make their own decisions, and I did, and also added to the conversation, offering another side and something for people to consider. I'm sorry you don't agree with my stance and take it personally and find it combative, but it is not meant to be. You stated your opinion (as did others after), and I stated mine. Just because mine isn't as pro-gay as yours doesn't mean its wrong.

Forums are a wonderful tool that people can share and exchange thoughts and opinions. You have shared yours, I have conversely shared mine. We may not agree, but that is alright, it still acheives the same effect of sharing and conversing.

[DVC~OKW~96]

I too go to Dallas for work. One of my coworkers lives in Ft. Worth. Yes, she's a lesbian living with her long term partner too.

I'll take her perspective, thanks. I find it more valid than a distant alternative viewpoint, regardless of the entertainment value of that viewpoint.

Mr. Z, I'm sorry this is happening in your neck of the woods. I'm more horrified at the experiences you (and she and her partner) have had.

If I were a paranoid person, I'd venture to fear that the raid was done precisely on Stonewall Weekend for a distinct purpose.

Do I know that? Nope. But I don't have to step in dog **** to smell the stink either.

There are pockets of repression in many areas of this country, but there are areas that are dangerously worse than others.

Take care. Be safe. :hug:

[zeitzeuge]

Thanks DVC, appreciate it.

As far as the thread is concerned. It's dropped. The whole purpose for the thread was hijacked and ruined as far as I'm concerned.

[OrlandoMike]

I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread. No use beating a dead horse!

If there are any developments on this story please feel free to start a new post.

Mike