Pooh sized passengers to pay more on SWA

[CarolMN]

According to this story released by Reuters, SWA said that:

"Starting next Wednesday, its "people of size" policy will require passengers who need seat-belt extensions or cannot lower the arm rests on their seats to purchase two seats if they are flying on a plane near or at capacity".

Apparently this policy has been in effect for sometime, "but it will be more strictly enforced starting next week."

Here's the link to the complete article for those who may be interested:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020619/airlines_southwest_size_1.html

[Letsbgoofy]

I sat next to a Pooh sized person last year coming home from WDW and it was very uncomfortable. I remember at the time thinking that they should have made him purchase two seats. It doesn't seem fair to pay full price for a seat and ending up sharing half of it with a stranger!

[kamgen]

I can totally see both sides of this! It is unfortunate that the airlines can't come up with some other way. While I am uncomfortable "sharing my seat" with a stranger, I do not agree with TWO FULL PRICE FARES! JMHO!

Kamy :)

[ducklite]

I have had more than one arguement with a fellow pax over this issue. I was seated next to a guy who had to have weighed in at over 400 lbs. I refused to put the armrest up, and told him to "Deal with it, you paid for your seat, not your seat and half of mine". He was very nasty about it, and called the FA, who backed me up. He ended up standing most of the flight, because he couldn't fit into the seat. But his obesity is not my problem.

I have several friends who are larger people. They always buy first class seats in order to accomodate themselves. They don't have unreasonable expectations that they are going to be able to shove their 400 lb butt into a seat that's 18" wide. They also have the COURTESY not to expect the person sitting next to them to give up half their seat.

Anne

[addicted_to_WDW]

I am pooh sized, but not offended by this. Fortunately I fit into one seat, but if I took up more space than that, I should have to pay for it. Airlines are, in fact, a business.

I don't think that seatbelt extenders should be a factor. People carry their weight differently, and needing an extender does not necessarily mean needing additional seat space.

I do think that fellow passengers should try to be a little more understanding. Most people would be mortified by not fitting into a seat...they don't need the disdain of fellow travelers.

[PhotobearSam]

I'm a size 22-24 woman and I need extenders on some flights due to the very small length of the belts and on other flights I don't need an extender and I even have extra room.

Until they allow passengers to try out seats ahead of time, I think this is unfair but I can understand the feelings of not wanting to share your seat with a stranger.

I think that in general, the seats on most aircraft are too small and offer very little room for large people (which most of the population is now considered pooh-sized) and even for a tall person. Leg room has long been an issue for my brother and his very long legs.

My fiance and I sit together and put up the armrest. He's a big guy too. We get enough harsh comments that we don't need to be put down by an airline. We will pick a different airline than SWA.

I will not pay for 2 seats...so we won't travel with that airline.

[ducklite]

I should have mentioned that the man I referred to in my previous post and I got off on the wrong foor to begin with. he was sitting in MY aisle seat, which I refused to give up. I am highly claustrophobic, and sitting in an aisle seat helps alleviate the panicky feeling I get. I'm the same way on a train, in a pew in a crowded church, even in a small fitting room in a department store.

At any rate, he was very angry with me because I wouldn't give him my aisle seat. He got downright abusive when I refused to put up the armrest. He was a jerk.

I certainly don't mean to degrade anyone with this post. But I also think that with any special needs also needs to be reasonable.

If you preboard with your younger kids, for crying out loud don't block the aisle while gathering your baby gear trying to get off first at your destination (this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine). Wait a few minutes for the plane to clear and get off after other pax have deplaned.

If you are a diabetic, carry some snacks and juice boxes with you in case your flight and/or food service are delayed.

And if you are a larger person, try to fly during the off-peak hours when the planes will be less full and it'll be easier to get seated with an empty seat next to you. Fly the carriers with the widest seats. And don't get upset with fellow passengers when they do'nt want to share their seat with you. If you are a 300lb. person sitting in a seat wide enough for a 300lb. person to occupy with some degree of comfort, how would you feel if a 550 lb. person sat in the seat next to you, raised the armrest, and spilled over into your seat?

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by PhotobearSam
My fiance and I sit together and put up the armrest. He's a big guy too. We get enough harsh comments that we don't need to be put down by an airline. We will pick a different airline than SWA.

I will not pay for 2 seats...so we won't travel with that airline.

With all the highly discounted plane tickets out there, why not buy three tickets between the two of you, and fly in comfort? Considering that often you can get r/t from YOW to MCO for under $200 r/t, it would seem taht splitting the difference in teh extra seat between you would be well worth it.

Anne

[Lewisc]

two seats if they are flying on a plane near or at capacity is the key quote. If there is enough room so the large person doesn't have to sit next to another passenger there is no problem.

[PhotobearSam]

I assure you that with the Canadian Dollar the way it is...The extra cost of another seat is very expensive. We have thought of flying out from a US city but could not afford to do so if we had to buy 3 seats.

Some planes don't have 3 seats together... Some have 2 seats on each side of the plane and some don't even have a business class.

We are confortable with 2 seats... Very comfortable.

The price flying out of Ottawa to Orlando is up to $700 Canadian so that is out.

$200 r/t from where?
Not lately here...Prices are high.

[peg2001]

I agree that no one should have to share their seat space with a stranger sitting next to them but what about leg space?!? There is very little leg room to begin with and I've had very long legged gentlemen sit next to me and out of necessity, their knees are well into my leg room "zone." I spent the flight even more cramped than usual as I tried to avoid banging my legs into theirs.

Should we start making them pay for 2 seats or fly another airline with more leg room?

[chicagodisneyfan]

As someone who worked for Southwest from 91-97, this policy was in effect during this time.

On full flights it was not an issue. Being that there is no assigned seating, most people would not sit next to them because of their size. So they usually had the extra room.

On full flights or during busy times - trust me - a lot of people purchased an extra seat. If you get a good deal on the airfare, who wouldn't want to fly with an extra seat? No smelly people, rude people, talkers, people with bad breath. Heck, now I might start buying an extra ticket.

[PhotobearSam]

Good point peg2001,

My only question is where will it end?

I don't have kids and what if I don't want to fly next to a screaming child, or someone with long legs, or foul smelling Body odour?

I personnally think that airlines are not designing seats with the customer in mind, just their bottom line. I know that they are a business and have every right to do so but where will it end?

I saw a commercial on TV about an airline that is putting in less seats on their planes to offer more leg room. Which airline is doing this? I would like to try them. Just so you know, I'm just about 5'10".

Just my $0.02 worth.

[Lewisc]

American Airlines is the carrier with fewer seats.

[sgtdisney]

It is interesting to note, how things have changed at the airlines.... The 757, 737 and 727 all have a cabin width that was the same as a 707.. There were a variety of reasons for Boeing to keep the cabin diameter the same, but it was really to keep the tooling costs down. Now, when the 707 was first designed it was set up with 5 across seating, in what we call now, coach.. This translated into wider seats and aisles.... Ah, the glory days of commercial aviation. This was at the same time that the airlines all had lounges set up in their planes. Of course 150.00 r/t airfares to Florida from Chicago were unheard of then.. ;) :) In 1960s dollars that would have been what about 25.00 r/t?

[GAIL HAYDEN]

AA states they have fewer seats and that may be true, but, the leg room feels the same to me. I have always felt that SWA has the widest seats out there and the leg room has always been ok for Dee and I. When I fly Delta, we ask for the exit aisle for the extra leg room. Go figure. Dee is 6'1" and I am 5'7" (size 12 so seat room is not an issue) but have super long legs, so leg room is important to me.
Personally, I think this is a great rule to follow or apply, it will promote the comfort for all passengers.

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

Okay, folks. I feel the need to inject a little reminder to play nice.

Discussing the issue is fine, but everyone please remember to be respectful of each other and don't resort to insulting statements or name calling.

Thanks. :D

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I am sorry if what I said was mis-interpretted as being offensive or insulting. I was directing my comments to no one person in particular, However, I do not think it is fair to blame the airline if a person is unable to fit into one seat. I think it is nice that SWA is allowing the people an option to buy an addition seat at the last minute at their discounted fare..

[JDY]

This is a complicated issue which will only hurt SWA's image. I agree that no one wants to share a seat with a perfect stranger. But I also think it is, in essence, discrimination.

It is true that the airlines are a business, but really, two full fares? There has to be a better way. I'll admit it; I don't have an answer.

As to the size of coach seats, let's get real. I'm an average size guy and coach seats are small. Maybe the airlines should realize that people are larger than they were 30-40 years ago.

Oh, well...that was me venting. :mad:

Can two really thin people split the cost of one seat?

[PhotobearSam]

JDY.....YOU ARE FUNNY! :p

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Since no one made any mention of the policy as stated on SWA's website I went an read it for myself. It is not just aimed at our larger friends, it is aimed at anything that deprives another passenger of the space they have purchased. Personally, I see nothing wrong with not being encroached upon.
Here is the policy as stated on the web site. Leave it to the press to leave out some of the salient points.
Perhaps we should (myself included) read a policy before reacting to the media's slant on things.



Since 1980, Southwest Airlines has maintained a policy, for purposes of Customer safety and comfort, of requiring a Customer to purchase a second seat if the Customer needs extra space for a large or fragile item, such as a musical instrument, or if the Customer's girth is larger than one aircraft seat. Below are a few points to help clarify our policy:


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Customers who reserve and purchase a discounted, advance purchase fare will be charged the same fare for the second seat, even if the advance purchase requirements are not met at the time of the second seat purchase. A Customer who is holding an unrestricted walk up fare will be charged the appropriate discounted Child's Fare for the second seat.
Once travel has been completed, if the flight is not full, the Customer can request a full refund for the second seat by contacting Southwest Airlines' Customer Relations Department.
This policy was designed to accommodate Customers needing extra space, regardless of the reason (e.g., personal comfort, artwork, child safety seats, large or fragile musical instruments).
The policy is intended to promote the safety and comfort of all Customers onboard and to ensure that no Customers are deprived a portion of the space they have purchased.

Also, here is the link.

http://www.southwestair.com/about_swa/press/additional_seat.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ducklite]

Originally posted by PhotobearSam
$200 r/t from where?
Not lately here...Prices are high.

I just looked yesterday on travelocity, there were several carriers offering YOW to MCO for under $200 r/t. Even with the exchange, the cost of buying three seats for two people at that rate is not prohibitive.

Anne

[Andrew_Lubow]

I'm a plus size fellow and have no problem with buying a second seat.

[pokeysmom]

DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF THE FRIENDS FLY FREE RATE COULD NOW BE USED BY JUST ONE PERSON BUYING A SECOND SEAT THIS WOULD BE CHEAPER THAN PURCHASING AN EXTRA TICKET IF YOU ARE A SINGLE PERSON FLYING OR IF YOU HAVE AN ODD NUMBER OF PEOPLE FLYING?

[sgtdisney]

What I am wondering is if a 'pooh sized' person did buy 2 seats, but got to the airport at the last minute and therefore boarded last will SWA guarantee that they will get two seats together... It will be rather hard to spread yourself across 2 seats if they are in opposing sections of the plane. Does SWA have the authority to ask a person to change seats so the person who bought two seats will have them. It is just another question that SWA probably will have to address. And, if SWA does do this, then what about the family or couple who buy 2 seats (or more).. Why can't they insist on having seats next to each other.. I guess time will tell how this plays out...

[PhotobearSam]

Originally posted by ducklite


I just looked yesterday on travelocity, there were several carriers offering YOW to MCO for under $200 r/t. Even with the exchange, the cost of buying three seats for two people at that rate is not prohibitive.

Anne

That sounds great. I looked at the site but the best I can find is $180 one way. Do you have a link to the return flight. We would love to take a quick trip to Nver never land for a break before we move. Thanks for any info you may find.;)

[M. Eisner]

I always enjoy it when this topic resurfaces every year. Airlines are a business, the more seats they get in a plane the cheaper the fares are. First people will complain they want large seats and more leg room. Then the fares would go up and, being Americans, we'd start to whine about how high the fares are. Making people buy two tickets for two seats because they are too large is not discrimination. Americans are getting fatter because we eat more and do less. Simple as that. Travel to Europe and look at how thin people are there. They ride bikes to work or walk, and eat less. It isn't genitics, because most of the U.S. can trace their roots to Europe. Please... everyone in the U.S. wants to be the victim of something. Accept what policy the airlines have, and if you don't like it, try driving or taking a train or hitchhiking or whatever else.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

M. Eisner
Wow, you said a mouthful and I totally agree. Just goes to show, you cannot please everyone.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

pokeysmom
that promo has been over for almost a month now. Not really important to this discussion, but, if it were, I cannot think how anyone could call their pooh size body a friend. I belive you would need 2 distint bodies.

[adamak]

No easy answer for this one. I'm thin, so always assigned the middle seat when I'm travelling alone. I don't mind that usually. But sitting next to a plus-plus size person next to me can sometimes be uncomfortable.
On the other hand, I do not think it's fair for them to pay for 2 seats either. That's very expensive if they're flying cross country.

And as others say, what about screaming kids? Where do we draw the line of 'comfy' flying?

I personally think there should designated seats for large size persons, and kids sections. Make those seats wider. You don't need to re-configure your whole plane, just take 3 seats and make them 2. Then assign them accordingly. That way, customers are happy, and airline don't have to lose so much money for reconfiguration.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by adamak
I personally think there should designated seats for large size persons, and kids sections. Make those seats wider. You don't need to re-configure your whole plane, just take 3 seats and make them 2. Then assign them accordingly. That way, customers are happy, and airline don't have to lose so much money for reconfiguration.

I have always liked the idea of kids sections in the back of the plane--get them in first so they can take the time they need to settle in without holding the rest of the boarding process up when they're in row 9 with a toddler in a car seat and a lap baby.

BUT, I do NOT like the idea of reconfiguring seats to accomodate large people. Lost seats=lost revenue=more expensive plane tickets for you and me and everyone else. I like to sit in certain rows. I almost always book early and get my selection. AM I now not going to be able to sit in that row because I'm not a large person? What if I select those seats, get to the airport and am told that my family will be broken up and scattered around the plane because our seats are being given to large people, and there aren't three seats together anywhere else? How is that fair? Where will you draw the line on who gets those seats. If I'm paying the same amount for my ticket, why shouldn't I have the same oportunity and seat size? Why should I be penalized for maintaining a healthy weight?

The average American female wears a size 14. The average male is 5'8 and weighs 170. That can easily fit into a standard seat configuration. The airlines base things on averages, which they should. If a person is too large for a standard seat, other pax should not be affected by what I feel is a personal problem. They should not have to share their seat, nor should they have higher fares to accomodate the 28% of Americans who are obese.

If obese pax should get a larger seat without paying for it, then why shouldn't skinny pax get a rebate on the space they aren't using? Where does it stop?

Anne

[sgtdisney]

I disagree about having a children's section on a plane, aside from it being next to impossible to enforce, it wouldn't be fair. Some children cry, others do not. I have been on flights with some pretty rude adults and would have taken a crying baby over them any time. Plus, unless the partitioned the aircarft off, how would you like to be seated in the aisle in front of the children's section... :rolleyes:

Seriously, if we seperate the children into one section of the plane, what is next? How about a section for overweight people, then what about the rude adults section, then next the ugly, or smelly people section. It could go on and on. Children, who cry aren't doing so to upset people around them and if the parent is considerate they will do everything possible to comfort and silence them.

I really think the point here is that you are buying *A* seat on a flight going from point A to point B. You have the right to that seat and not the one next to you unless you paid for it as well. Think of it this way, how would you feel if your neighbor built a fence 5 feet into your property line. Would that be fair because they wanted more space? You want more space, buy more property. Period.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by sgtdisney
I disagree about having a children's section on a plane, aside from it being next to impossible to enforce, it wouldn't be fair. Some children cry, others do not.

It's not the children crying that makes me think it makes sense. It's the amount of time it takes people with kids to board and deplane. Face it, regardless of intent and how much they fly, it takes longer to get kids down the aisles and into their seats. The point is to seat them in the back of the plane so they can get settled in while the seats in front of them load, without worrying about blocking aisles, etc. For deplaning, they can take the extra time they need to gather themselves up while the rest of the pax are getting off, again, without blocking aisles. My sister has two little ones, and ALWAYS books the furthest rows back for this very reason. It's common sense and consideration, not discrimination :)

Anne

[sgtdisney]

I see your point, but I prefer to ride foward in the cabin.. The smoothest ride (and quietest for that matter) tend to towards the front of the aircraft. I would much rather be sitting forward of the wing if possible, especially on a MD-80, DC-9 or 727.. However, when I do travel with my kids I always use the preboarding time, if the airlines do this (and they should). The other thing I *always* do is make my family stay in their seats until the plane has emptied. I agree it is pretty inconsiderate of people to sit there in aisle 12 with 20 aisle behind them, wrestling with diaper bags, car seats and kids. We always tend to be the last off the plane when our kids are with. I can understand your point though.. It is too bad everyone isn't always considerate of others.....

[peg2001]

I fail to see how waiting a minute or two to allow a family traveling with children to pick up their things is any more of a hassle than waiting for the travel warrior to gather his carry-ons because he refuses to check anything. A family's time is no less important than Mr./Ms. Executive.

I've actually noticed more patience and orderly de-boarding of planes in the last several months than I did before Sept 11th. People now seem to realize that there are worse things than waiting a couple minutes to allow those in the rows before them to step into the aisle.

Peg

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by peg2001
I fail to see how waiting a minute or two to allow a family traveling with children to pick up their things is any more of a hassle than waiting for the travel warrior to gather his carry-ons because he refuses to check anything. A family's time is no less important than Mr./Ms. Executive.


This is true too. I actually think anyone who has to wrestle with a bunch of bags, or has to move back and forth in the aisle to collect all their belongings should wait to stand up. Actually, I learned this from years of travelling with my Dad, who was an airline pilot. The minute the plane's door opens people jump up like a bolt and then end up standing for anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes or more, while they ready the aircraft to be deplaned. I mean, unless you are rushing to make a connection, which I know DOES happen, why do you need to be the first one off the plane? Especially if you have checked your luggage. I can't tell you the number of times that I have seen people rush off the plane while we wait to be last off and when we finally get to the baggage claim area we end up seeing the same people standing there waiting for their luggage with us.. :p

[Disneylvr]

I am pooh-sized and if necessary (and the fare isn't too high) we I purchased two seats. Most recently I did this on AA in December 2001. The agents and flight attendants were very kind and did nothing to embarrass me or my DH. We only purchase 3 seats (For DH and I) if the seating configuration of the plane would cause us to make another passenger uncomfortable, for example in a 3 seat row or 5 seat row etc... We are perfectly fine on MD-80's, 767's and other planes that have just 2 seats together. We raise the armrest between us and we are perfectly comfortable and not squishing anyone. I am okay with airlines requiring large passengers to purchase an extra seat but only if they will be making another passenger uncomfortable.

As for my weight.... I was raised to eat healthy and to keep active but I did start packing on the pounds during my pre-adolescent years with no explanation and have continued to do so ever since. I was taken to doctors by my parents always to be told the same thing, exercise and eat less. However that obviously wasn't enough because I continued to gain weight into my adulthood. I am not saying that I never indulged in fast foods or high fat snacks but not regularly.

Recently I was diagnosed with a condition (I will not get into medical specifics) and found out that a low-fat diet isn't enough for me. I also have to cut out all sugar (even fruit, except in small amounts) and drastically lower the amount of carbs. I also continue to eat low fat as well. My diet combined with 3 miles of walking every morning before work and yoga in the evenings has resulted in steady weight loss for me (25 pounds so far). I haven't felt this good in years but I still have a long way to go. Thankfully my new physician saw beyond that "your fat because you are lazy and eat too much" attitude so many people take on. You don't know the reason for an individual's obesity so please don't generalize it as just eating too much and being lazy. There are many reasons, medical and psychological, that lead to obesity. I promise you cruel and disrespectful comments aren't going to help solve the problem and in fact may only contribute to it more. Kind words of encouragement and understanding go a long way.

[annie2871]

Here's how I look at it, if I walk past a smoker and breath in the smoke that person is blowing off and it makes me uncomfortable, why shouldn't that person who is smoking be made to do something about releasing the smoke from his cigarette back into the air that I breath? I am so much more offended by cigarette smoke than I am by sitting next to someone who takes up more than their share of the room.

The point is that we have to learn to deal with different situations, be grown ups for crying out loud. You all act like that pooh sized people are horrible people for making you uncomfortable on an airplane. Do you not think they are uncomfortalbe too? Airlines, restaurants, and other public areas need to learn how to make seats accomdating for all body types, not just the size 10's of the world.

It's funny how a smoker can go into a restaurant and lite up and make everyone else in the restaurant uncomfortable, but a pooh sized person can't get on an airline without having to pay double for their seat.

[seashoreCM]

I am willing to switch seats so a large person can have two seats together, but if there is no completely empty seat anywhere in the plane for me, I expect the F/A to deplane a standby, or ask for volunteers and pay compensation. (Usually I will volunteer myself).

After a larger person purchases two seats he is now entitled to raise one armrest somewhere in the plane. The other passengers and F/A's can make the decision as to which armrest it is, if the larger person had not already claimed two seats and there is no assigned seating. Two large persons should be able to purchase three seats between them and then get to raise two armrests in the plane.

IMHO a larger person should be able to purchase a second seat at the gate for the lowest discounted fare showing up for flights of the same routing on any future date, or the price s/he paid for the first seat, whichever is less.

Travel tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Annie,
There is a huge difference between smoking in a place where you can move to avoid it and being squished in a seat where you cannot move.
I guess it boils down to common courtesy. It is discourteous to make anyone uncomfortable at any time and in any way.

[annie2871]

Gail, point taken, but why should I have to move so someone can enjoy a cigarette?

[Diznyqt]

I am also very torn on this issue. As it is, unless you're in first class, you're going to be crammed on an airplane. This is why I hate flying. Now, if someone's size warrants a need for 2 seats on a full flight, I think it is perfectly fine to charge them additionally. I don't think this should be done when plenty of empty seats are around...then it's merely a matter of leaving some space around for those who may need it. But, my question is this....when you make a reservation, are you now going to be forced to give up your height/weight stats for a phone/internet reservationist to determine your "bulkiness", or will you just be humiliated when you go to board & are told "you're too large". I don't think people should have to undergo humiliation over this, but I also see some validity in the extra charge (again, on a capacity flight only).

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Diznyqt
The new policy is very well outlined on the SWA web site.

annie2871,
IMHO, you should not have to move if that person lights up if you were there first. I would ask them to move. BTW, I don't smoke in restaurants, I hate smoke around my food. :)

[denisenh]

Is there REALLY that many folks that are too big for the airplane seats? I think a lot of folks are overweight but not 2 bums wide.
I would guess that 1 and 1/4 adult bums could fit in the seat. Yes, people are shaped differently, some people carry it all in front and their posterior is really only 1/2 bum wide. This really has to do with the width of bum and hips in the sitting position, in most cases anyway, and not all overweight people will qualify for this special seating.
I don't have a problem the policy, it seems fair enough.
I sat next to a very large woman on my last flight. Out of being (overly?) polite I lifted the armrest between us. She smelled good, she was nice and quiet and her left hip was on my lap. I felt very cozy really. I didn't care, I felt bad for her....I was worried that she may feel embarrassed, but it was OK. Just try to be nice to other people and it will all work out.

[julfre]

I have a question that I still am not clear on after reading this note.
How do they decide who is "too large" for 1 seat?? I always keep the armrest down to avoid infringing on the next person's seat, but I am a large person and need the seat belt extender. So I do "fit"(or more appropriately use only 1 seat). Would I be charged to a second seat since I use the extender for my tummy?
I always get an aisle seat also so I can let the middle seat person use the armrest and I can use the one on the aisle side. I'm not sure how they decide who fits-is it needing the armrest up? If the armrest is down, but I need an extender? I can fit without the extender, but it is a tight fit.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Julfire,
This should answer the question:



A Message From Southwest Airlines
In the past 48 hours, Southwest Airlines has heard from many people regarding ongoing "news" stories about our policy that requires Customers who occupy two seats to purchase both seats. We have been truly disheartened by the inaccurate reports and the hurt and disappointment this issue has caused so many of you. We are further saddened that the sensationalism of this issue has encouraged many Americans to "take sides" or "poke fun" over a subject that we realize is very real and often uncomfortable to many people. Unfortunately, our attempt to "set the record straight" has continued to be incorrectly reported. As a result, we want to take the opportunity to respond to your questions and concerns regarding what has turned into one of the "hottest" topics during the past couple of days in a forum that hopefully will reach the most people. We value, want, and need your business, and we consider it a privilege each time you call upon our Company to serve you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Is this a new policy?

No. Southwest has had a policy in place since 1980 that requires a Customer to purchase the number of seats he/she occupies. This is a policy that most other airlines also have.

If the policy is not new, why does it go into effect on June 26 as stated in the news?

This policy doesn’t go into effect on June 26 (it has been in effect since 1980). The only significance to the June 26 date is that is the date we expect to be fully operational systemwide with our new checkin and boarding process. As you may have heard, Southwest is doing away with our plastic boarding passes and implementing a new checkin and boarding process that involves an electronically issued paper boarding pass.

We recently began training our Employees on this new process, which allows us the capability to note on the boarding pass itself that a Customer has purchased an additional seat (whether that additional seat is needed for a large Customer, an infant traveling in a child restraint device, a musical instrument, or other items). During that training, we issued an internal document reminding our Agents of our longtime existing policy of requiring a Customer to purchase a second seat if that Customer needed a second seat for his/her safety and comfort on the aircraft. We didn’t issue a press release—someone in the media obtained a copy of the memo from one of our Employees. In fact, the only "new" procedure involving this "old" policy is that our Agents will give the Customer a document that advises of our refund policy and lists a phone number and address the Customer can contact to apply for a refund.

Why are you asking your Employees to request that a large Customer purchase an additional seat?

Our entire reason for sending our Employees the reminder is because we are expecting fuller flights this summer. When our aircraft are booked to capacity, and one Customer is occupying more than one seat, another Customer is left without the seat he/she purchased. This ultimately costs us money in denied boarding compensation and inconveniences the Customer who has been "left behind." It is certainly not safe, comfortable, or fair for a person who has purchased a ticket to be left with only a portion of a seat or no seat), nor should anyone be expected to occupy less than an entire seat. Further, it’s not safe, comfortable, or fair for the Customer who is occupying more than one seat to be placed in the situation of having someone crowded in a portion of a seat.

How much will one have to pay for the additional seat?

If the Customer is holding an advance purchase, discounted fare, the second seat will be sold at the same discounted fare. If the Customer has purchased one of our low, unrestricted full fares, the second seat will be sold at the discounted Child’s Fare.

When do I qualify to receive a refund for the additional seat purchase?

As long as the flight does not oversell (having more Customers waiting to board an aircraft than seats on the aircraft), we will refund the additional seat purchase. All Customers who have purchased an additional seat will receive a document that advises them to contact our Customer Relations Department after travel to request a refund for the additional seat purchased. In addition, if there is a possibility that the flight will oversell, the Customer will be given the option to purchase a second seat and travel on a less full flight to his/her destination without paying a penalty-fee, regardless of the fare paid. And, unlike Customers who must purchase an additional seat to place a musical item, a child restraint device for an infant, etc. and who have other "options" such as holding the infant, placing the item in an onboard stowage space or in the cargo hold, we are sensitive to fact that a large Customer has no choice but to occupy more than one seat. For that reason, this is the one instance where we will offer a refund of the additional seat purchased as long as the flight does not oversell.

Won’t this be embarrassing to the large Customer and the Employee?

Because this is not a new policy, our Employees have held this sensitive discussion with some Customers in the past. Many Customers who are of a larger size and who travel often by air purchase two seats when making their reservations because (1) the Customer knows he/she occupies more than one aircraft seat and is more comfortable in two seats and (2) the Customer wants to avoid the discussion with Employees at the airport. In fact, by making arrangements in advance, the Customer has allowed us to deplete the inventory of the second seat so that we don’t sell it to someone else. And by the Customer having purchased the seat in advance, we are less likely to oversell the flight.

What will happen if a large Customer has only purchased one seat?

We also realize that sometimes a Customer doesn’t know he/she can purchase a seat in advance and arrives at the airport holding only one ticket. In those cases, we have asked our Agents to kindly and discreetly advise the Customer of the need to purchase an additional seat for everyone’s safety and comfort onboard and to give the Customer the document advising how to obtain a refund. By taking the opportunity to educate the Customer for the next time he/she travels, we have managed the Customer’s expectations by providing consistency.

I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat, why should I have to purchase two seats?

Our policy isn’t about a person’s weight or shape. We have no intentions of having scales, sizing templates, measuring tape, etc. That certainly isn’t a way to treat people, and we have never considered any such thing. Many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat. Those Customers would not be asked to pay for a second seat. We are simply asking a Customer who must lift the armrest in order to sit in the aircraft seat and who, at that point, is obviously occupying a portion (or all) of the seat next to him/her, to pay for the additional seat being occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell.

For further details please, oh please, access the site. Rather than going on rumor why not read the policy?

http://www.southwestair.com/about_swa/press/additional_seat.html

[CarolA]

Gail,
Thanks for posting that.

The other thing people have overlooked is that USA Today also reported that several other airlines have quitely implmented the same policy.

I sat next to a guy with a Cello once. He always had to buy two seats. One for him and one for the Cello, it was too big for overhead and too valuable for baggage hold.

As a frequent flyer, I understand the airlines problems. The planes are FULL! I have a coworker who wound up getting "bumped" off a plane, because of this problem. (There was no way he could fasten his seatbelt).

Another interesting point that I read lately was that AA is considering droppings it's increased leg room and adding more seats back onto the plane. People keep saying they want more leg room, etc but when it comes to buying the ticket what they actually do is buy cheap!

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Carol,
You are welcome. I guess when you really like a business you don't like seeing it bashed because of rumor and half facts.
Better to read it for yourself.
Interesting that the other airlines are "quietly" implementing this.
Figures they would let the other "guy" take the heat while following suit. Thanks for the info on that.

[SueM in MN]

I actually remember reading a post on this board a long time ago about this subject (1 year?? 6 months??). The poster was reporting that she had bought 2 seats and had gotten a refund because the flight wasn't full. She wanted to let other people know about it so they could use the information.

I'm not Pooh sized, but I think it would be much less embarrasing to have a clerk who has been trained to deal with the situation advise about an extra seat than to get on the airplane, hoping that the seat next to you would be empty or the person in it would be nice. During a trip home from Europe last year, my DD was assigned an aisle seat. The Pooh-sized woman assigned to the middle seat asked DD to switch with her. DD said the woman looked embarrased to be asking, but DD said she didn't mind switching, so both of them would be more comfortable. When the person who had the window seat came on, she was also Pooh sized and asked DD if the armrest could stay up so she had more room. She also looked embarrased to be asking, so my DD was left with no armrests, sitting between 2 people who were both taking up part of her seat. She thought of asking the flight attendant for another seat, but she didn't want to embarrase either of the women, so she ended up very uncomfortable for the whole transatlantic flight. I'm sure the others were not comfortable either and all were embarrased to mention it. It would have been much better for everyone if the Pooh sized women had more room without having to beg for it.

[julfre]

Thanks Gail

That info makes it a lot clearer than before.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

julfre

Thanks for reading and always happy to help. :)

[hulabird]

Lets face it, the airlines pack us all in like Sardines to make as much money as possible...I fit in my seat, no problem, but I am 5'9 hubby is almost 6'2" and ours legs get very stiff with no leg room. Its uncomfortable no matter if you fit or not! I can see it now...u know that thing u put your bag in for carry on, to make sure it fits? I can now see a "seat" next to it where people sit down to see if they fit! This is ridiculous and demeaning to those that are larger, and it is discriminating. The seats are way too small to be comfortable, when I travel to Vegas its almost 3 and a half hours and its not a fun experience! And one of the posters above is right, on some flights the belts are a decent size and on some they are too short.


:smooth:

http://www.mousescripts.com/clipart/images725/Parks/DisneyWorld/Resorts/carib01a.gif

[GAIL HAYDEN]

If the belts were an issue, I could see your point, but, they are not. It is the butt size and if you push the limits of your seat.
I totally disagree that they pack you in like sardines. And, since they are a business what is the problem with making a profit, since I expect that is why they are in business. I have made the trip to Vegas from RI, it was no big deal and it was comfortable.
I am also considered tall with very long legs and I have yet, except on Delta express, found leg room to be less than adequate. I have found someone's huge butt pushing into my body an intolerable thing. I have not made a scene, I have not berated the person but have been annoyed that my "space" was invaded. I dislike being touched by someone I do not know. I expect the majority dislikes it also. However, I made the choice to fly, come what may. We all have choices and if you choose to fly, it is obvious to me that you need to make the choice of following the guidelines. If you don't like them, don't fly. This is truly an no brainer. Apparently, SWA is not the only one following this procedure, the other carriers are following suit.
I hardly think stopping people from being uncomfortable because someone cannot fit in a seat discriminatory. I f anything it is about time to consider those being encroached upon and realizing the safety and comfort of others that fit in a seat is important too.

[Disneylvr]

Here is a link to a poll on the Debate Board about seat comfort on airplanes.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220311

I realize it is hardly representative of the population but it seems the majority of DIS members who responded to this poll do experience some discomfort or feel seats are too small on airplanes, even if they themselves fit into a seat.

It is important to me, as a large person, to NOT be making someone else uncomfortable. I will take whatever measures necessary to prevent that. If they are uncomfortable then I am uncomfortable. I know it is unfair to take paid space away from someone else. But what I sense in this thread, from a few posters, is an intense dislike for the overweight that goes beyond airline travel. :confused: I pray I am wrong.

[travelgoddess]

I am a pooh sized woman, My husband and myself fly 2-3 times a
year. I always sit next to the window, we put the arm rest between us up, he keeps the one between him and the aisle passenger down. Sometimes I need an extension, sometime I don't. Since it would only be cozy for the 2 of us, not the other
passenger, would I be OK or will they still require me to buy another ticket?
I am 36 yrs old, I have been obese my whole life. I try to live as
normal a life as a thin person does, I travel, I go out, I refuse
to be discriminated against. It seems like there is alot of people
out there who thinks that it's OK to discriminate against overweight people. We are not wealthy, we save for our vacations, they are very important to us. This is extra stress that
I don't need.

[macs4us]

Until I was in a car accident a few years ago, I was a size 2 (5'8.5" and weight of 108) - all the drugs have put my metabolism to a stand still, and now I am pooh sized. Having been both skinny and now not, I can tell you that I have always felt cramped flying. When I did a non-stop flight from LAX to Helsinki (size 2 at the time), and I was miserable in my seat, and spent half of the trip standing. Since I generally fly with my husband (no kids), I try to make sure we have enough miles to upgrade to first class, or at the very least bulk head so I can have leg room. I think it is ridiculous that the seats are so close together that I usually can't get my Powerbook fully open. Let's face it - the airline industry states that the majority of their business is from the business traveler, paying big $$$ for coach - not the fares most of us get. So to use our cheap fares as a reason to pack us in is really a cop out. I think charging for two seats is not reasonable - I would concede to a fare and a half if there is a full flight.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

I don't have a problem with large/pooh sized people, I have a problem with my seat being encroached on. Like I have said before, I don't want to fly touching anyone I do not know. Personally, I think flying "cheek to cheek" with a stranger is over the edge. However, you don't have to be pooh size to encroach, you can do it as a size 2, 14, 10, or a 40 male. I am a size 12 or 14 with a 31" inseam. I am fine in the seat with the leg room. I don't feel squished. I often wonder if the shape of the plane inside gives people a distorted view of the actual size and perhaps gives some temporary adversion to enclosed places.
I don't find charging someone who needs more room that one seat can provide discrimantory or unfair, I feel it is quite fair.

[hulabird]

Well Gail, because it does not affect your wallet, I guess you don't mind that others have to pay double, but, although I am a very skinny person, and fit very easily in my seat, I still think it unfair for SWA to single out those who are overweight and need a bit of extra room, no matter how you want to sugar coat it, it is discrimanatory and people have a right to be upset. SWA has no right to tell a person how much space they need to be comfortable, what is comfy for one person, fat or skinny, may not be the same for another. The leg room issue is another thing, there has been things all over the news about people getting blood clots from not having enough room to stretch their legs, these aren't overweight people, these are ANY people!

[GAIL HAYDEN]

The wallet being affected does not change my opinion one whit.
Try to understand, I do not like paying for a seat on an aircraft that I have to share with anyone. That should not be too difficult to understand. It is not discrimination, it is for the safety and comfort of everyone. It does affect my wallet, btw, if I have paid for a seat and can only use half of it, whatever the reason.
If you took the time to read the policy on the web site you might understand it a bit better. The link is here, try it. Or, perhaps you would just prefer to make up your mind without knowing the facts.
Also, other airlines are adopting this practice. Knowing the that corporate lawyers are involved you can bet they checked out the discrimination thing rather well. I believe you will find there is none.
For the record, if I was too large to fit in one seat, you can bet I would pay for two if for nothing else my comfort. Trust me, I can afford it.
As to the bloodclots, yes, it happens, it also happens in cars, behind a desk or just sitting around at home watching endless hours of TV. It should not be rocket science to move around when you feel cramped. Stretch, move those legs, get the blood flowing.

[nuthut]

If a person takes up two seats then they should pay for two seats. I do not want to subsidize others because they are overweight. How about the airlines charge by the pound!!! Step up to the scale and see how much you ticket is.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Not a bad idea nuthut, but, the ticket would cost me a lot more than I pay now. LOL

[inkkognito]

I could care less what others do, as long as it does not impact my own comfort. I wouldn't say I'm pooh-sized (yet), but I'm no skinny-minny either! But thankfully I can fit into an airline seat with no problem...if I couldn't and I needed to buy two seats, then I would do it (perhaps with a bit of grumbling, but not too much). But I am a very compulsive planner who gets my seat assignments way in advance, and I do not feel that I should have to give up the seats I chose 9 months ahead of time because of someone else's weight or for any other reason. Thankfully I have never been in the situation where I was asked to, so I've never had to seem like a "bad person" (that only holds true when hubby and I have seats next to each other...ATA has sometimes assigned us the window and aisle, and then I generally switch to the middle if someone is assigned there...whether they're pooh-sized or not, I'm sure they wouldn't enjoy spending the flight with us yakking across them!). We normally request a middle and window seat and put the arm rest up between us, but I would refuse to put the arm rest up if a stranger were next to me. It's not my responsibility to ensure their comfort, and I would not feel comfortable being in such proximity to a stranger. I paid for a seat, not part of a seat, and I would insist on getting what I paid for, just as I would in any other circumstance.
Just my two cents.
Barb
Visit the Platinum Castaway Club at: www.*****************

[peg2001]

I guess I see both sides to this issue. I have seen no one disagree that it is not right for a large person to share a seat with a stranger. Sharing with a loved one sounds like a common and simple solution, when possible.

Failing this, leaving the adjacent seat empty is really the only way to go for the safety and comfort of the large person and the other paying customers. It comes down to whether the large person should have to pay extra for this space or whether the airline should "eat it" as a cost of doing business with the public, many of which are too large for the standard coach seat.

My opinion, and I certainly respect any and all who would disagree, is that the airline should absorb the cost of the unpaid seat even though this would mean passing the cost along to ALL the passengers in the form of slightly higher ticket costs. This seems to me to be the most compassionate of solutions.

[travelgoddess]

I agree with you Peg.
Whats next, I don't want to sit next to an ugly person?
Or a stinky person
Or a person with a baby

We need to learn to be a little more compassionate to each other

It seems weird hearing all these negative things coming from
people on a Disney Board.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by peg2001
My opinion, and I certainly respect any and all who would disagree, is that the airline should absorb the cost of the unpaid seat even though this would mean passing the cost along to ALL the passengers in the form of slightly higher ticket costs. This seems to me to be the most compassionate of solutions.

I do not want to have to pay higher airfares for the small percentage of fliers who need more space.

The sad fact is that while a minimal number of people suffer from medical conditions which cause obesity, the majority of obese persons are in that state due to poor diet and lack of excercise.
For the very few people who can not fit into an airline seat with the armrest down because of a medically induced weight problem, they have my sincere sympathy. But of all the "Pooh sized" people out there, how many can honestly say that they are medically unable to lose any weight?

That is the choice that they make for themselves, and they need to learn to accept the consequences of their choices, or change their lifestyle.

Frankly I have more sympathy for the 6'4" guy who has to turn into a contortionist to fit into a seat.

If the airline makes ALL the seats larger, and gives ALL the seats more legroom, I don't mind slightly higher airfares. But I do mind paying extra so someone can get a second seat for free.

Anne

[hulabird]

I agree with TravelGoddess, there is so much negative, mean spirited comments at times on these boards, COMPASSION is the key word, the airlines should absorb the cost, I agree, and no one should be judging people on "lack of exercise" or anything else, how cruel. I just ignore the people on this board that make rude comments. I am not heavy, but I have friends who are and yes, maybe they don't exercise or diet properly but no one is perfect.. but God, and I would rather treat a person, big or tall, fat or skinny, black or white or whatever, as God would, and not with mean comments, or discriminatory opinions.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by hulabird
I agree with TravelGoddess, there is so much negative, mean spirited comments at times on these boards, COMPASSION is the key word, the airlines should absorb the cost, I agree, and no one should be judging people on "lack of exercise" or anything else, how cruel. I just ignore the people on this board that make rude comments. I am not heavy, but I have friends who are and yes, maybe they don't exercise or diet properly but no one is perfect.. but God, and I would rather treat a person, big or tall, fat or skinny, black or white or whatever, as God would, and not with mean comments, or discriminatory opinions.

Maybe you don't understand. The airlines DO NOT ABSORB THE COST--THEY PASS IT ON TO THE REST OF THE PASSENGERS!!!

I do not want to pay for someone's extra ticket. End of story.

Anne

[KerriL]

Southwest is not the only airline that has this policy. All airlines do. Both my parents are severely obese and on occasions have had to buy an extra seat. Most of the time the lap belt extenders work fine.
K

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Anne,
I am with you on this one. Lets think about this one. First I get to loose part of my seat and now get to pay more for it. Ah, geez, what is wrong with this picture? I somehow don't think we are working with Harvard Business Graduates here.
I totally refuse to spend more on a ticket because I am a compassionate person or, medical reasons not included, because someone cannot or will not control what they eat. If you wish to eat until you are Pooh sized, then go for it, but, do not expect the airlines or others to pay for your seat. If you play plan on paying.
This is the "entitlement mentality" to the max. I am, indeed, compassionate, but, I am not STUPID.
I am sure G-d loves us all reagardless of anything, however, He has never said that we need to pick up the tab for other people's decisions.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

I agree with you Peg. Whats next, I don't want to sit next to an ugly person? Or a stinky person
Well, actually, if you read the contract of carriage, they can prohibit someone who stinks, unless it is because of a medical condition. Frankly, would you really want to sit beside a person who stinks?

[travelgoddess]

So much for the "Disney Magic"
I think we should let this thread die, it is doing nothing but
dividing us all, it's very apparent we all have very strong feeling
about this subject. When someones physical size offends others
the way it does here, its very sad.

[hulabird]

travelgoddess....like I said, those are the ones u just need to ignore, I do.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

travelgoddess,
I have no problem with people who are large, small, or in between, I have a problem sharing my seat with complete strangers. I have a problem paying for this also, but, I also have a problem paying for something from which I derive no benefit.
If compassion is a benefit, I shall choose the way I donate.
I would far rather feed a homeless person or save a stray animal than subsidize someone's trip. If you choose to donate some of your hard earned money to pay for half a seat, you go right ahead, it is your money. I choose not to.
It is going to be very sad for a lot of people who feel as you do when the airlines are making people pay for the use of two seats, regardless of why. I could be a baby seat, someone that does not fit, someone with a large piece of art, etc. As I said, read the new rule before you judge others.

[Meagansmom]

All I can say is Congratulations Disneylvr - Keep going! You can do it.

[denisenh]

If there is one thing that I have learned on this DIS board, it is that if an opinion of any kind is different than mine it isn't necessarily wrong, its just different. No need to feel offended. Sometimes it is just hard to tell someones feelings by reading a post. The body language says so much and we don't have that advantage here.
I would share anything with a stranger if they needed it and I had it to share, sometimes even when I don't have it to share. That's just me. Some other people don't feel that way, but have other good qualities that I wish that I had. Like when I am tired, I am so crabby. Some people are always nice, even on one hour of sleep.
Besides, I have a feeling that SWA is going to do what they want no matter what I or we think anyway.

[PhotobearSam]

Can a MOD please close this thread...It seems to have no trip planning value anymore except now people seem to be getting personal.

[seashoreCM]

>>>> When someones physical size offends others
the way it does here, its very sad...

But it is not the person's size that offends others, it is the person's behavior.

It is reasonable to expect others to move so that a larger person can have two adjacent seats, but it is the duty and obligation of the larger person to not take someone else's (other than a standby's) seat even if it means getting off the plane.

Persons upset at a larger person's behavior are encouraged to speak up and it is then the flight crew's obligation to get involved and fix the situation. If each passenger doesn't have a seat to him/herself, the plane is oversold.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

denisenh, and Seashore,
Nicely put. I wish I could have said it as well. :)

[GAIL HAYDEN]

PhotobearSam,
From what I gather from the title of the thread, it had no planning purpose in the first place. In reality, it appears to be a misplaced debate board topic.

[PhotobearSam]

I don't read the original post as a debate...I see it as someone trying to infom us of a change that was made to a policy (or implementing an existing policy)

Well maybe it should be moved to the debate board.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

PBS,
Works for me.
BTW, and totally off topic, I bought a new camera and I expect it will be a great item, once I figure it out. ;)

[ducklite]

I want to put this into perspective.

You are seated on a plane going to Orlando. All of a sudden an announcement comes on the PA telling you that because a person of size needs a second seat to accomodate themselves, all passengers will now be asked to pay $2 to subsidize that persons seat.

If you accomodate a larger person who needs to purchase two seats by giving it to them for free, you are subsequently passing the expense of not being able to sell that seat to another paying passenger on to the other passengers. How is this going to go over?

Another potential scenario:

Some of the seats on the plane are made larger for larger passengers. You and your family are assigned seats in a row of the larger seats when you purchase your tickets months in advance. You get to the airport, and get on the plane, and all of a sudden are told that you can not sit in those rows as they are needed for larger passengers. There are no more seats available together, and the plane is full of families traveling togther who do'nt want to be split up. So you and you family, including small children, are split up all over the plane in order to accomodate a larger person who can't fit into a regular sized seat.

Not a very good start to a vacation...

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by seashoreCM
>>>> When someones physical size offends others
the way it does here, its very sad...

But it is not the person's size that offends others, it is the person's behavior.

It is reasonable to expect others to move so that a larger person can have two adjacent seats, but it is the duty and obligation of the larger person to not take someone else's (other than a standby's) seat even if it means getting off the plane.

Persons upset at a larger person's behavior are encouraged to speak up and it is then the flight crew's obligation to get involved and fix the situation. If each passenger doesn't have a seat to him/herself, the plane is oversold.

Hi Seashore! Not sure I agree that it's reasonable to give up my seat in this scenario. If DH and I are seated together and a larger person is seated in our row, I don't feel that it would be reasonable to request us to split up. Rather they should attempt to relocate a single traveler to free up two seats together for the larger person. I also don't feel that it would be proper to request a pax to give up an aisle or window seat if they don't want to.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by travelgoddess
When someones physical size offends others
the way it does here, its very sad.

I'm not offended by the size. I'm offended by the "Gimme" mentality. As long as anyone is not affecting me, I don't really care what they do. But when they begin to affect me, be it physically or financially, it becomes offensive.

Anne

[Disneylvr]

Thank you Meagansmom! I have lost another 2 pounds this week. Like I said before, I have a long way to go but it is the kind and compassionate DIS posters like yourself and travelgoddess, hulabird, peg2001 and others help to keep me going. Positive, uplifting and compassionate comments go allot further than cruel degrading ones.

I have been a pooh-sized traveler for many many years now and this is what I do to assure my comfort as well as the comfort of other passengers.

1) My husband and I always travel together. So when possible we choose plane types that have 2 seats together. For example an MD-80 has a 2 seat side (seats A & B) and a 3 seat side (D, E & F). A 767 has 2 seat row/3 seat row/2 seat row... We book early and reserve seats A & B. Be careful not to reserve seats in a row behind or in front of an exit row. Those rows tend to have less leg room and/or the seat won't recline. DH and I always raise the arm rest between us and we are fairly comfortable. In the past we always traveled on TWA because St. Louis was their hub. TWA has since been bought by American Airlines and all TWA planes were reconfigured to have more leg room. I can definately tell the difference.

2) Unfortunately flight times and plane types are subject to change. There have been a couple of times where we reserved seats on an MD-80 or a 767 and TWA switched the plane type to a 757 which has only 3 seat rows and some stranger was assigned the seat next to us. I check my reservations every few days to see if there are any changes. If such a change occurs I call the airlines immediately, usually TWA (now American) and explain the situation. They have switched me to a different flight
on a more size comfortable plane free of charge, if plenty of seats are available. This has only happened to us twice in 8 years time and we fly about 4 times a year. I don't know if American would do the same but I do know that TWA would. Please know that this will mean having to be very flexible about the time of day you will be flying. Very early morning flights (6am) or late at night flights (10pm or after), in my experience, tend to be less full.

3) If there are no flights available where you won't be sitting next to a stranger OR you are traveling alone, I do suggest looking into purchasing an extra seat. Having been through this many times, you will be just miserable if the passenger next to you is glaring, complaining or making rude comments. I know it is expensive but keep checking airfares several times a day before your trip and take advantage of sales. Keep in mind, you will have to be flexible with your flight days and times to find cheaper fares. Also, some fare sales will last just a few hours. For example, on Monday of this week there was a fare for $107 RT from STL to MCO on US Airways. It lasted just a couple of hours and is now gone. I have also heard recently that there are occasionally very low fares early in the morning around the 4am time. Yes I know, who wants to get up that early but it might be worth your while. After snagging that great sale go for an early morning walk. The world is so peaceful and quiet that time of day and it gives me time to think about my upcoming WDW trip. :D

4) I bring my own seat belt extender. Most of the time, but not always, I do need one. I carry most of my weight in the abdomen. It can save the pooh-size person time and potential embarrassment of having to request one from a flight attendant. Some of them are discreet about it, others are not. I will not post here where I purchased mine but PM me if you would like the information or have any other questions about pooh-sized travel.

Happy traveling for everyone!!! :) :) :)

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Disneylvr
I have lost another 2 pounds this week.

That's such wonderful news!

Thank you for your post which offers some really constructive ideas for making flying more comfortable for EVERYONE!

I also like the MD-80 for it's 2 x 3 configuration. Regretfully most carriers are phasing it out. Apparantly it is more expensive to operate and maintain than many of the Airbus and Boeing models.

Anne

[Disneylvr]

Thank you Anne. :D Progress is slow but steady.

You are right about the MD-80's, they are definately being phased out. They were made by McDonnell Douglas which was bought by Boeing a few years ago. But I am seeing more and more Boeing 767's in operation (at least on American) and they have the 2-3-2 configuration and I think they are a little bit more comfortable than the MD-80's and 88's. Could you tell me more about the Airbus seating configuation? I am familiar with 737's, 757's and 767's but haven't been on an Airbus for many years.

[ducklite]

I wo'nt fly on Airbus equipment, so I'm not really sure. Gail??

Anne

[seashoreCM]

To Disneylvr: If you and your spouse can share two seats with the armrest raised in between, you should not have any problem with a third person in a third seat in the same row.

To Ducklite: Imagine a large person who actually bought two seats but forgot to select seats. In the plane every aisle seat and every window seat is taken byothers and every middle seat is empty (33-1/3 percent of the seats are vacant). This large person will have to impose on somebody or force at least one person to move! True, if someone needs to be moved every effort should be made to keep people who want to sit together together.

[Disneylvr]

My husband is a large man seashoreCM, very broad chested. He doesn't take up 2 seats or require an extender but I know that he doesn't like to be squished between me and a stranger with no arm room. I myself take an inch or so of his seat with my thighs. So if we are in a 3 seat row, the seat is as much for his comfort, mine AND the other passengers. If he was a small guy then yes 2 seats for us would be fine and no other passenger would be effected. On planes with a two seater row, I take the window seat and he takes the aisle seat. Yes we are squished together but as a couple we call it cuddling. :D And most importantly we aren't making another passenger uncomfortable.

As a large person I know that early seat assignment is very important and I make my seat selections as soon as it is allowable for that particular airline. I also check regularly to make sure there are no changes made to my reservation, i.e aircraft changes, seats re-assigned, flight change or canceled.... If a change is made I am on the phone ASAP with the airline. For example I am flying from STL to CMH for a wedding next month. The aircraft was an MD-80 with a 2 seater row and 3 seater row. DH and I were assigned row 8 seat A & B (two seater side) at my request. Our flight was canceled and we were put on a new flight, and assigned row 8 again but seats E & F on the 3 seat side. Another passenger was assigned seat D. Upon finding this out I was on the phone immediately with American and our seat assingment was changed to 18 A & B on the 2 seater side.

Because of my special needs, I never volunteer to give up my seat(s) when a flight is overbooked and so far I haven't been bumped from a flight. Flying from STL, I never make connecting flights and I hope to keep it that way. Making connecting flights is too risky for me. Maybe in a year or so, when I have finally become a size 14, I will take that risk again! :)

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Disneylvr
Could you tell me more about the Airbus seating configuation? I am familiar with 737's, 757's and 767's but haven't been on an Airbus for many years.

Airbus builds a series of aircraft similar to Boeing. They have the A319, A320, and A321 which are all narrow body 2 engined aircraft similar to the 737, 757. They have a 3-3 seating arrangement. They are slightly wider than the 737 however and because of this the seat widths are usually an inch wider or so.. Airbus also has 2 wide body aircraft these are the A330 and A340. The A330 has 2 engines and the A340 has 4 engines. Both of these have a 2-4-2 seating configuration. They are wider than a 767 but narrower than a 777. Airbus is also currently working on the A380. This will be the largest plane flying when it is built. The plane will feature 2 floors along the length of the plane, and will be larger in passenger capacity than the 747.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Anne,
If memory serves the config. on the airbusses I have flown on are 2-4-2.

Disneylvr,
Good for you. Slow and steady is the healthy way. If I said anything to offend you, I am truly sorry.

[Disneylvr]

Thank you Gail. :D What airlines use Airbus planes? Right now I only fly American but I remember a few years ago I flew on Delta and I am pretty sure it was an Airbus. My dad works for Boeing and he keeps me pretty well educated on planes and I remember him telling me Airbus was a European plane. If I remember correctly the plane was quite comfortable.

Michelle

[CarolMN]

NWA uses some Airbus planes. The coach configurations are 3 seats, aisle, 3 seats. It is possible that the configurations vary by airline. My advice is to check the airline's web site or call the airline to verify the plane configuaration for the specific flight you are interested in. Here is a map to the seat maps for NWA:

http://www.nwa.com/travel/trave/seatm/

I admit that I look at seat maps for every trip to see where I am sitting. I like NWA's seat maps becasue they tell you how wide the seats are (and most coach seats in their fleet seem to be less than 18 inches:() as well as how much space/leg room there is between rows.

From experience, I know that Delta also has seat maps on its web site as does AW. It's probable that all the major carriers do.

[ducklite]

US, NW and CO are all using some Airbus equipment. In all honesty I would imagine all of the Big 7 are flying at least some Airbus equipment.

Anne

[sgtdisney]

US Airways, United, Northwest, America West and American, Frontier, JetBlue currently use Airbus Equipment. (There may be a couple more I missed.)

Delta and Continental do not at this point, they may have at some point in the past, I am not certain. Southwest and ATA do not fly them either and never have.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

I flew American's Airbus to Jamaica and Air Jamaica, also to Jamaica. If memory serves, I flew an Airbus to Vegas via Northwest (don't quote me on this one, it was a about 7 years ago. :) )

[Jeannine]

Why do people/airlines single out "Pooh Sized" people? Yes, I have been squished in my seat by others for various reasons...but I have also sat next to people whose body odor was nauseating, personal habits disgusting, kids/adults sitting behind me kicking my seat, obnoxious drunks...the list could go on and on....and yet, while I certainly understand SWA policy and those of you who do not wish to share your seat...Why is it only a policy for size and not other bothersome conditions????? Because it is impossible to police everyone???just easier to spot the Pooh people...seems unfair.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Jeannine,
Trust me, Pooh sized people are not being singled out. Anyone that needs more room will pay for the extra seat. This includes people with car seats that are too large for the seat, and a few other items. Read the policy on SWA's site. And....while you are at it, read the contract of carraige. Most of what you cited here is covered there.

I find most of what you posted as objectionable to be totally legtimate and who has not experienced one or most of what you talked about? Bad as those issues are there is nothing to compare with flying in half a seat or without the use of even one arm rest. I have had this happen with non Pooh sized people and it is very annoying.

Why is it only a policy for size and not other bothersome conditions????? Because it is impossible to police everyone???just easier to spot the Pooh people...seems unfair.
Again, read the policy, the media had a field day with this one and never ever mentioned the entire policy.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by sgtdisney
Delta and Continental do not at this point, they may have at some point in the past, I am not certain. Southwest and ATA do not fly them either and never have.

Sgt is right, I was mistaken in my earlier post. CO isn't currently flying Airbus. I was thinking of something else. Apologies for any inconveniece.

Anne

[Jeannine]

I find no fault in SWA policy and do think the media has had a field day with this without reading the policy. My point is not that people with children or those carrying large objects are also asked to purchase additional seats and the debate on this board isn't about those folks. It's with the prevailing attitude in our country toward overweight people. Would anyone ask some one who smelled to please purchase an extra seat, or someone who was rude. Who here has gagged on an entire flight from someone's perfume?? SO why is it ok to ask an overweight person?? It seems like overweight people are easy to single out for jokes, celebrity tabloid stories, ridicule. Many of our future flying companions have characteristics that some of us might find offensive, all I'm saying is that we either address all those issues or don't single out one group, the overweight.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Jeannine
I have gagged on perfume for an entire flight (makes you wish you could smoke to mask the offensive odor ;) )
The reason they are asking an overweight person to purchase extra room is so they will not be encroaching on another person's seat and then everyone can have a quasi comfortable flight. I have experienced loud children, rude people and most of what you have mentioned, but, there is NOTHING like trying to fly in half a seat.
They can deny people who stink boarding. They deny ill people boarding, they can have people who cause problem arrested, they can deny alcohol to intoxicated people, they can also prevent them from boarding. And, if there are children aboard that are badly behaved, they can ask them to control their child/ren.
They cannot, however, roll out a larger seat.
I must ask, with all due respect, why you think it is ok for someone overweight to share your seat? Why do you feel it unfair to charge someone for what they use?
Given that enlarging the seats on airplanes would cost money for the refitting and then the costs would be passed along to people who want to fly. Why do you think it is ok for someone who fits in a seat to pay more for someone who does not? Do you think it unfair to charge someone with a child and a car seat to pay more if that seat goes over the size of the seat? Do you want to fly with part of that seat poking into you? I sure don't?
While it sounds like and unfair policy, it is more than fair for someone to get what they paid for. In this case, and entire seat.

[ducklite]

I was on a fairly long flight (about 6 hours) in first class last summer. one of the othre pax in the FC cabin had THE WORST BO. I could smell the ripeness, and I was two rows, a seat, and an aisle away from him. That's a person who should have been given a new seat--in the baggage compartment.

Anne

[Disneylvr]

I just received the latest People Magazine in the mail yesterday and it featured a small article about SWA and large passengers. It states that the policy (about purchasing 2 seats) has been in effect for 20 years but the airlines has decided to strictly enforce it now. Other airlines have similar policies but it is rarely enforced so the article states. It also made our local news here in St. Louis because two women had trouble this weekend at our airport.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Well, at least it is not a new policy, that is why I asked people to read the info on SWA's site.

[Joan BWV98]

I do not disagree with the policy, but I do have a problem with leaving it to the discretion of those at the counter. Although it has been said as a joke, the idea that you must be able to fit in the seat or you need another seat is enough. My husband and I are Pooh sized but we travel with our two children (fortunately, definitely not Pooh sized). Neither of us need to move the arm rest and we each sit with a child.

Our fear, and it is a fear, is a confrontation at the ticket counter. It is such an embarrassing idea that we are not taking SW this trip. We love their service, except for the mad rush to get on the plane.

I also would like to see them assign arm rests. Has anyone else been on flights with an arm rest hog?:eek: :(

[Disneylvr]

Joan,

That is my fear too. Will the gate agents take one look at DH and I and make us purchase an additional seat. Like I have stated several times above, we try to book seats on planes that have just 2 seats together on one side and we lift the armrest between us. Of course Southwest only uses 737's so that is impossible to do on those planes but their seats are wider than most. I plan to avoid SWA until I hear more.

[LucyStorm]

Quite frankly, I would rather sit next to a "pooh-size" passenger than the guy on my last flight, who first took my daughter's seat-(window)- and then after I asked him to move, insisted on sitting next to me with his legs so far spread apart that his knees were halfway in my seat.

The only consolation was that I accidentally spilled my drink, and since he was halfway in my seat- he got wet!!!;)

[inkkognito]

LucyStorm,
I know what you mean!!!
Seat hogging is definitely not limited to Pooh-sized passengers, and there are plenty of other problems that can arise too where your seat gets "taken over" by the person next to you. My hubby was once next to a man with a lap child who definitely looked to be over the age limit. Not only that, but he had nothing for the little boy to suck on, and his ears were obviously hurting as he spent the whole flight screaming and kicking. Unfortunately, a lot of this kicking ended up on my husband...his arm, his tray table, etc. The flight was completely full, so moving was not an option, and the man couldn't get up because there was turbulance pretty much the whole way. The kid was kicking hubby so bad that he had to use my tray table or his drink would have been in his lap. I think he would gladly have shared part of his seat with a Pooh-sized person (or even Pooh himself!), as long as they didn't physically abuse him!
We have learned to arrive at the airport as early as possible to get an exit row, as that eliminates the possibility of having a child next to you (although you'd be surprised at how many people try to sit with their kids in those rows).
Barb
Visit the Platinum Castaway Club at: www.*****************

[GAIL HAYDEN]

inkkognito,
That sounds like a flight from hell. While I am sure the kid's ears were not happy with the pressure change, I would be more inclined to bet he did not like being restrained.

Joan BWV98,
Who's descretion would you like it left to? There don't seem to be many other options.
Yes, the armrest hog, flying in the "praying mantis" position is awful, been there, done that and really did not appreciate it.

[seashoreCM]

>> kicking your hubby so bad...

Your husband, and also everyone passing by in the aisle should have reached over and gently stroked the kid's head.

Making someone with a bad odor purchase a second seat would accomplish nothing, you would still smell it as strong as before.

I don't know how to solve the armrest problem other than,
1. Placing a thin upright divider lengthwise atop the armrest which would be a sharp hazard during turbulence, or,
2. Getting rid of the armrests altogether,which would create other problems that are the main topic of this thread.

Two Pooh sized passengers traveling together whould not have to purchase more than one extra seat between them. If they purchased seats for their small children who don't need child safety seats, they should not have to buy any extra seats, although a gate agent who has children's rights on his mind may argue otherwise.

[Mskanga]

I had a good example last year coming back from Spain with my two children , now I have always been very strict with my children and they are not allowed to act up on any flights , I make sure they have plenty of things to do but what killed me last year is that an oversized person sitting next to my little daughter decided to raise the arm rest and take over almost half of her seat, I nicely put it back down again, the person looked at me and raised it again , I put it back down again and I asked the person ...did you pay for this seat?? she said no and also told me that I didn't pay either....WHAT?? At that point I called the flight attendant and he told the person that was my dd's seat and that she should stop raising the arm rest. This person thought my dd was flying for free and was just "taking" an empty seat. Obviously the person did not fly that often, on transatlantic flights even babies who fly on parents laps pay 10% of the airfare but get no seat, when you get a seat you pay full fare. No way in hell I would let anyone take over half of the seat I paid for and I don't care how long the flight is.