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View Full Version : Rumor on Restaurant board: ADR priority for DVC members?


gk90
06-05-2009, 06:18 PM
There's a poster saying that there's a new dining system with "tiers for availability depending on if you are TIW, DVC, concierge, cast member, etc."--she says she trained on this new system. See posts #53 and #58 on this page and #61 on the following page
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2193916&page=4

Anyone else hear anything about this? And I have to say that when I made ADRs 2 weeks ago it definitely didn't feel like we were getting any advantage for being DVCers!

DISNEY FIX
06-05-2009, 07:00 PM
Wow that is really interesting. When I call for ressies I am not going to mention the TIW card we have. Just belt out several times that we are DVC.;) A great perk.

jimmytammy
06-05-2009, 07:25 PM
That is interesting.

BirdsOfPreyDave
06-05-2009, 07:53 PM
:cool1:

PSC
06-05-2009, 07:54 PM
If we are getting premier treatment, I'd hate to experience the lowest tier treatment. I booked reservations 90 days before my trip last week and felt like a lot of things were being held back. Sure enough I called back a few weeks later and was able to trade my least desirable reservation for a different one that wasn't available at 90 days.

wulfekamp
06-05-2009, 08:19 PM
The free dinners seem a little upset about it.

DebbieB
06-05-2009, 08:34 PM
I haven't made any ADR's under the new system, are they asking for your name and reservation # up front? When I've made them in the past, you tell them what you want, they find it and then take your name. Sounds like this cm is trying to stir the pot.

I doubt WDW would ever give DVC members an official ADR priority (like 100 days) because it would cause a huge uproar like it has in this thread.

tecodis
06-05-2009, 08:41 PM
I haven't made any ADR's under the new system, are they asking for your name and reservation # up front? When I've made them in the past, you tell them what you want, they find it and then take your name. Sounds like this cm is trying to stir the pot.

I doubt WDW would ever give DVC members an official ADR priority (like 100 days) because it would cause a huge uproar like it has in this thread.

When I tried to book an ADR the other day, the CM did indeed take my reservation information first. I didn't know the conf # so she had to look it up first. Then she checked for the dining availability.

The other thing I realized is that the CM has to put in a "range" of time to search. She had to change the range a couple times.

oakmanner
06-05-2009, 08:43 PM
popcorn::

tchrrx
06-05-2009, 09:06 PM
Hmmm...I called 90 days out and was not able to get some of the places that I wanted. I also got stuck with some crummy times. Even after calling back several times, I didn't get anything different.

momx2
06-05-2009, 09:36 PM
The thing about the TIW card bothers me the most. We paid for the discount and actually probably spend more with it than we would without it. I put the TIW card in my DH's name and the DVC ressie in my name, maybe they won't notice???:confused3

*KeepMovingForward*
06-05-2009, 09:49 PM
If this new tier system is true, then I'm sure happy I'm DVC, but I do think it stinks for just about everyone else.

deej696
06-05-2009, 10:26 PM
I have used the new travel agent system, and I can tell you there is a place for "client affiliation" where you can check off DVC or Annual Passholder, but not TIW. Not sure how that factors into the booking availability/priority, but there is a place to identify it when you input your desired time....

sgtdisney
06-05-2009, 10:50 PM
I made some ADRs recently, and honestly, I was a little surprised I got the times I wanted for a party of 6. This was for early August. I know it is controverial, but in a way, but I think it is OK that Disney is doing this. I can see why they would want to give their concierge level guests a higher priority, they are paying a premium for the product. DVC members should be rewarded more for their loyalty if you ask me.

To me this is similar to how airlines treat their first class and elite frequent fliers. They are paying more for the same experience, so to speak, so they get little perks, like first on and off, priority baggage handling, etc. It isn't necessarily a caste system, but just a way of rewarding the customers who pay a premium for the product.

emlutz23
06-05-2009, 11:50 PM
Maybe they need our reservation number to make sure we are staying on property, since resort guests can call 90 +10 days in advance?

Even though I am a DVC member (and sometimes an AP holder) and would benefit from these rumored priority ADR's, I'd rather have better shopping discounts! :thumbsup2

Tara
06-05-2009, 11:53 PM
Color me skeptical...the two people who said they were trained on the system have different stories about the tiers (one says DVC, VIP, concierge and CM; the other includes level of resort and free dining). A third person with "access to the system" says there are only selection boxes for DVC and AP holder and that TIW was there but removed and indicated this was to show appropriate dining discounts.

Add in the fact that too many DVCers have been complaining about not getting ADRs and it doesn't seem like there's any prioritization going on.

I don't quite believe it.

n2mm
06-06-2009, 07:25 AM
I've also read this and the bottom tier is offsite guest. What I've read is that there is a wider table selection for the top tier. If they are gone for the top tier, they are gone for all. I doubt we ever see any "official" word on this.

DebbieB
06-06-2009, 09:14 AM
I question this cm's motivation. CM's sign a confidentiality agreement and here she comes posting all these details that she had to know would cause an uproar.

Doug7856
06-06-2009, 09:34 AM
It may be too early to determine if all of the features are fully functional. I don't see much difference between Disney identifying it's most loyal customers in order to provide special offers or a higher level of service and airlines or grocery stores doing the same. Frequent flyer and grocery store loyalty programs are commonly used and provide effective ways for their respective industries to reward loyalty. Marriott and Starwood offer loyalty programs. It would not surprise me that Disney would offer similar programs at some point. In reality they already do with PIN related email/postcard offers.

JimMIA
06-06-2009, 09:39 AM
Interesting. CM's have usually been bottom-tier, so their position in this system should surprise noone. In fact, they are normally not even allowed to make ADRs at all during certain peak periods (not long periods, but dates like Thanksgiving and Mother's Day).

JimMIA
06-06-2009, 09:47 AM
Color me skeptical...the two people who said they were trained on the system have different stories about the tiers (one says DVC, VIP, concierge and CM; the other includes level of resort and free dining). A third person with "access to the system" says there are only selection boxes for DVC and AP holder and that TIW was there but removed and indicated this was to show appropriate dining discounts. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on those minor differences. The person with "access to the system" was talking about the travel agent system, which is different from the WDW system. Those capabilities mentioned have been around quite a while -- we've had CMs pull something up on their computer and say "Oh, you're DVC and already AP holders!"

I'd think the most likely tiering would be DVC and all Deluxe resorts, concierge or not, then other onsite resorts, then offsite, and finally "free" dining. I can't see Disney Dining turning away loyal local customers who will pay cash for their meals to accommodate "free" diners.

This would be a tough break for "free" diners, but they are eating FREE...at least theoretically.

I also share Debbie's opinion about the CM's motivation, and DVC is a convenient lightning rod to stir up the free dining folks.

Steamboat Girlie
06-06-2009, 09:48 AM
This seems like a bogus rumor to me. I called at 9O days, which was about last week, and I was certainly not given any preferential treatment. Was unable to get several of the "hard to get" reservations. In fact, the CM gave me a lot of trouble and I had to speak to 2 supervisors.
If anything, they treat DVC members worse!

allshookup
06-06-2009, 09:49 AM
When I called a couple of weeks ago for our trip in August, they did take my reservation number, but there was nothing available at some of the places & I ended up with a 3:30 dinner at Mama Melrose. It certainly didn't seem as if I got preference over anybody & they never asked if I had a TIW card, which I do. Personally I think their computer system stinks with the way they have to search & they don't make accomodations for different table sizes. For example, if you're a party of 2 & they only have tables for 4 they won't show anything available, so I doubt it's now so sophisticated that it shows availability for some & not others. :rolleyes:

Starr W.
06-06-2009, 09:52 AM
I also share Debbie's opinion about the CM's motivation, and DVC is a convenient lightning rod to stir up the free dining folks.


Well the few times I've read any sort of thread that the FD folks post on, they'll get wound up about DVC, Deluxe resort guests or any other group they figure is out to get their ADR's. The more I read, the less likely I would go during that period.

DVC Tina
06-06-2009, 10:15 AM
Rumor or not I hope it's true.

To me it seems very logical that people who pay for the dining program in addition to paying for their rooms (DVC or not) get a preference over those that just get the dining plan freely added to their room reservation.

gkrykewy
06-06-2009, 11:04 AM
My guess would be that this is not yet operational, but is in the system for future operation.

I hope it happens though - having to fight tooth and nail against free diners for ADRs is ridiculous.

DebbieB
06-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Nowhere in the information that the cm posted did she say that there was a differentiation for free dining or for type of resort (value, moderate, deluxe). She even said there was nothing said about type of resort but people still are freaking about that.

gkrykewy
06-06-2009, 11:13 AM
Wow, confirmed by RustyScupper: http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=32150225&postcount=74

I have to say... I'd be pretty happy about this :thumbsup2, but I still have my doubts.

dizzneebabe
06-06-2009, 12:50 PM
I find this hard to believe, too. HOWEVER...with little hope DH just called to change an ADR for July 9th. The CM not only asked for our reservation # (which they have before) but then asked if we were DVC. After he responded with "yes" she asked for our member ID #. Now why would they need that???? Surprisingly, we were able to get Sci-Fi for 5 of us in a car at 5:15. Now I realize Sci-Fi might not be a hard to get ADR, but nevertheless, it was exactly the time and date we wanted.

Brian Noble
06-06-2009, 02:00 PM
I'm guessing (guessing, mind you) that the number of tables held back for upper tiers is relatively small. I'm also guessing that the tiers are not very fine-grained, and that people are reading a lot into this.

But, I'm also not surprised one little bit that Disney is working harder to monetize their pricey resorts in tough economic times, and this makes sense for several reasons. The obvious reason is revenue. A less-obvious, but still important reason: how often do you hear complaints from "Disney newbies" who arrive for check in at, say, the Poly, only to find out that if they want to sit down and eat something, they need to leave the resort?

As someone who often stays offsite (and so is presumably on the bottom rung), I can tell you that I'll care as soon as Disney starts developing more restaurants that are better than mediocre in terms of quality and value.

gkrykewy
06-06-2009, 02:16 PM
value.

Value is in the eye of the beholder, and relates to much more than the price/quality ratio of the food. Let's not make this into one of those threads.

Brian Noble
06-06-2009, 02:25 PM
I think it can be generally agreed that if you took any of Disney's "better" restaurants, and put them most anywhere in the "outside world" at the same price points, they'd mostly fail miserably. Even here in my little college town, I have better places in many categories than the best Disney alternatives.

I get the captive audience thing---especially at the theme parks---and I do value the 'experience' meals highly. But, those aren't about the food so much as they are the view (California Grill), the setting (50s Prime Time) or the characters. Overall, the quality of Disney's restaurants as restaurants has fallen every year I've gone. If I can't get a table at Le Cellier, I'm not going to be heartbroken. I'd rather eat at my local alternative (which, I will grant you, is about the same in terms of price.)

bjakmom
06-06-2009, 02:49 PM
Here's what I experienced back in March when making my June ADRs, but thought the CM comment was just 'a crazy CM comment':crazy: - now it makes sense (at least a bit).
Here's the way it happened. Gave my ADRs to CL - Called the next AM to check and somehow I fell through the cracks, they did not call on my 90+ day, so called right then (one day late). They were unable to book any lunch time on my first day at Chefs de France (they thought that was very unusual, too). The only time avail the next night for Teppan Edo was 4:50 (I wanted around 7).
So of course I start calling each day myself. Within a few days I am able to get 8:10 for TepE (and a few days later I got my 6:50). On that call the CM still has no times for CdeF for lunch and he makes the comment "perhaps there are no times left for TIW tables" I say "Whaaaat!!!? does that mean?" and he tells me that there are only a certain # of tables available for TIW card holders at any given time - like I said, I immediately write him off as a crazy, doesn't know what he's talking about CM (sorry, I really do love CMs;)), but this is just a completely foreign language he is talking to me - I mean I PAID for this card, get free valet parking, frequent the $$ restaurants with it, and usually get great tables and service, etc - I always thought that WDW LOVED the TIW people:lovestruc
Anyway, within a few days (don't remember exactly), I call again about CdeF and don't mention TIW (just in case), but mention instead that we are staying DVC CL, that they were unable to book my ADR, and I get the noon ADR I was hoping for.
Crazy stuff, but remember, the CL staff could not get this ADR at first either, so who knows!:confused3 Still doesn't make sense that CL was not able to get the ADRs either, though- this was back when the system was a bit crazy. I, for one, will not be mentioning my TIW card again!!

PatMcDuck
06-06-2009, 03:08 PM
This thread made me smile a little. Sometimes when I had trouble getitng a PS or waited a LONG time for a table at WDW, with a PS, during free food, it made me a little nuts. I felt like I should be treated better, as I was PAYING for MY meal, for goodness sake. (which is irrational, and defeats the "free" in free food of course).

I felt the same way at the emergency room with my daughter, she was quite ill, and of course we had to wait. Around us, kids were running here and there, not really very sick, but had sore throats and the like, but use the ER for their primary medical care......... At one point I felt like standing on a chair, demanding to be seen ASAP, as I HAVE INSURANCE and would be paying for the service..........

I have read a little about this new system, but nothing too much yet, we will have to wait and see. I think onsite should have preference over offsite though. Just my opinion, haha. And I try and just avoid WDW during free food. Too frustrating.

Chellymouse
06-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Hmmm...I called 90 days out and was not able to get some of the places that I wanted. I also got stuck with some crummy times. Even after calling back several times, I didn't get anything different.

Same here. We were able to get all of the places we had wanted but not on the times and days we wanted. We wound up with some really crummy times. I guess it's better than not getting what we wanted, but hopefully this rumor will prove true at some point!

gk90
06-06-2009, 04:35 PM
I question this cm's motivation. CM's sign a confidentiality agreement and here she comes posting all these details that she had to know would cause an uproar.

I was wondering about that myself--aren't CMs supposed to be close-mouthed about this kind of thing?

Rumor or not I hope it's true.
To me it seems very logical that people who pay for the dining program in addition to paying for their rooms (DVC or not) get a preference over those that just get the dining plan freely added to their room reservation.

I hope it's true myself--but if it is why don't they tell us about it? It's the kind of program that would ensure more customer loyalty, longer & more expensive trips, more $$ spent in the parks, more point add-ons.

My guess would be that this is not yet operational, but is in the system for future operation.

I hope it happens though - having to fight tooth and nail against free diners for ADRs is ridiculous.

Yes, one reason I hope it's true is the nightmare experience of having to make ADRs on the 1st day of free dining--it's gotten to the point that I get annoyed whenever I see one of the Free Dining ads that are everywhere.

Wow, confirmed by RustyScupper: http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=32150225&postcount=74
I have to say... I'd be pretty happy about this :thumbsup2, but I still have my doubts.

I saw RustyScupper hinting at a changed system earlier in the post, and now he's come out and confirmed it...it looks like he's a CM in reservations? And again aren't CMs not supposed to talk about this?

gk90
06-06-2009, 04:48 PM
I think it can be generally agreed that if you took any of Disney's "better" restaurants, and put them most anywhere in the "outside world" at the same price points, they'd mostly fail miserably. Even here in my little college town, I have better places in many categories than the best Disney alternatives.


Yes, but if you're in Ann Arbor that's hardly your typical "little college town"--I would call it a cosmopolitan small city. After living in Manhattan for years I spent a summer in Ann Arbor and was very impressed by the quality, diversity and pricing of its dining opportunities. There were several restaurants that had me thinking "Why isn't there one like this in Manhattan?"

Of course, Disney could do better in terms of its dining offerings and pricing but in real-world terms it's not too shabby either. Take a look at this review from one of the NY Times restaurant critics who expected to be underwhelmed and found the food much better than she expected:

"But the biggest surprise was the quality of the food, even without marquee chefs. There were fine, well-chosen wines, and also graciously professional service.
I had heard that Epcot had good places for dining, but we were not going there. Where we were headed was the Magic Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom, and we assumed dinner there would challenge our standards.
Happily, we did not have to compromise."

http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/travel/escapes/27disney.html

TDC Nala
06-06-2009, 06:44 PM
Does anyone actually say when they make ADRs that they are a TIW member? I don't recall being asked. I am asked about the dining plan, but TIW is not a dining plan.

culli
06-06-2009, 07:36 PM
People love conspiracy theories

d-r
06-06-2009, 08:41 PM
I think it can be generally agreed that if you took any of Disney's "better" restaurants, and put them most anywhere in the "outside world" at the same price points, they'd mostly fail miserably. Even here in my little college town, I have better places in many categories than the best Disney alternatives.

I get the captive audience thing---especially at the theme parks---and I do value the 'experience' meals highly. But, those aren't about the food so much as they are the view (California Grill), the setting (50s Prime Time) or the characters. Overall, the quality of Disney's restaurants as restaurants has fallen every year I've gone. If I can't get a table at Le Cellier, I'm not going to be heartbroken. I'd rather eat at my local alternative (which, I will grant you, is about the same in terms of price.)

Ann Arbor has some pretty decent restaurants for a "little college town" though, so to be honest that isn't really that fair, but in general I agree with you (there are absolutely several disney world places that could beat anywhere in "little college towns" like Auburn, AL, say, or Oxford, MS, or Clemson SC). But for most of the wdw places, you can get as good or better in your home town. Some of it is more for nostalgia or disney-ness, some I like for what they are, and some are probably a *little bit* better than home town (I'm thinking Tokyo Dining, not much better than your a local Japanese restaurant, but a little bit). Some are absolutely horrible. Le Cellier is OK, I've been there three times over the years and it was pretty good 2/3, but you can get better steaks a lot of places. People go crazy for it because you can get a decent steak for 1 credit, and if you look at the price just think about how much you are saving! ;) I agree 100% that the quality of disney dining has went down dramatically in the last several years across the board - from counter service on up - and the price has went up all along.

wulfekamp
06-06-2009, 08:45 PM
When I made our ADR's I was really surprised with it being the new system. I got every place I wanted at the times I wanted. That has never happened before. But I like It.:thumbsup2

d-r
06-06-2009, 08:52 PM
Yes, but if you're in Ann Arbor that's hardly your typical "little college town"--I would call it a cosmopolitan small city. After living in Manhattan for years I spent a summer in Ann Arbor and was very impressed by the quality, diversity and pricing of its dining opportunities. There were several restaurants that had me thinking "Why isn't there one like this in Manhattan?"



whoops beat me to that one

Brian Noble
06-06-2009, 09:28 PM
A little OT, but I'm surprised at all the Ann Arbor love. Where are the Ohio State fans to set you all straight? ;)

(PS: lest you think I'm a food snob, I'm also partial to The Varsity just outside of Georgia Tech's campus, in Atlanta. The fried fish sandwiches at the Bloomfield Bridge Tavern in Pittsburgh are pretty good too.)

Edited to add: but my original point remains. I won't be too broken up if there's any particular Disney restaurant I can't eat in, and---so far---I've never had trouble getting a last-minute ADR somewhere. I used to be one of those 90 (or 180) day-on-the-nose kind of people, but those days are behind me.

Mich Mouse
06-06-2009, 10:37 PM
Does anyone actually say when they make ADRs that they are a TIW member? I don't recall being asked. I am asked about the dining plan, but TIW is not a dining plan.

I've never mentioned it nor been asked.....I definitely think this whole thing is shady though I am not sure which side I am on.

Are these posters with the inside information even CM's? Or just pot stirrers? Or are they both!;)

Is WDW really aware that I am a TIW and AP holder when they can't even keep our families names and addresses in their system correctly? Our names and extended family names are always mixed up....(My 7 year old niece got a pin code mailed to her at my house!)

I am not sure they are this sophisticated.

DebbieB
06-06-2009, 10:50 PM
I've never mentioned it nor been asked.....I definitely think this whole thing is shady though I am not sure which side I am on.

Are these posters with the inside information even CM's? Or just pot stirrers? Or are they both!;)



Definitely pot stirrers. Not only did they post the information (which would be in violation of their cm confidentiality agreement), they keep coming back to add fuel to the fire.

Maistre Gracey
06-06-2009, 11:00 PM
I think it can be generally agreed that if you took any of Disney's "better" restaurants, and put them most anywhere in the "outside world" at the same price points, they'd mostly fail miserably. Even here in my little college town, I have better places in many categories than the best Disney alternatives.

I get the captive audience thing---especially at the theme parks---and I do value the 'experience' meals highly. But, those aren't about the food so much as they are the view (California Grill), the setting (50s Prime Time) or the characters. Overall, the quality of Disney's restaurants as restaurants has fallen every year I've gone. If I can't get a table at Le Cellier, I'm not going to be heartbroken. I'd rather eat at my local alternative (which, I will grant you, is about the same in terms of price.)
I respectfully disagree (except Le Cellier. That place is the most over rated place on the planet).

Anyway, for the most part I find Disney dining very good. Yes, a bit on the pricey side, but with TIW it falls into line.
Plus... Don't forget about those health department ratings a few years back.. Disney was not perfect, but obviously better than the competition.

MG

JimMIA
06-07-2009, 11:49 AM
Are these posters with the inside information even CM's? Or just pot stirrers? Or are they both!;)I think they are both. I know one of them actually is a CM, don't know about the other.

Of course, if they are pot-stirring CMs, that doesn't mean their info is inaccurate. You have to keep in mind that a lot of CMs refer to the Mouse as the Rat.

culli
06-07-2009, 11:56 AM
I've never mentioned it nor been asked.....I definitely think this whole thing is shady though I am not sure which side I am on.

Are these posters with the inside information even CM's? Or just pot stirrers? Or are they both!;)

Is WDW really aware that I am a TIW and AP holder when they can't even keep our families names and addresses in their system correctly? Our names and extended family names are always mixed up....(My 7 year old niece got a pin code mailed to her at my house!)

I am not sure they are this sophisticated.

I think is a bunch of bull#%#, I posted this at the dinning forum boy people get all fired up over some crazy things with no proof. I can think of many things going thru the forums that people went nuts over and where going to boycott Disney, sell pts or whatever. Even things that came out to occur and I don't want to start another flame thread but I think we all know what those items are, anyway here is my $1.50 worth on the subject:

An easier way to do this, and yes even from a programing perspective would be to give the people with these supposed "tiers" a larger ADR window. This would be sooooooooooo much easier than trying to block off certain times or whatever the "Disney black ops" backers think is going on.

Come on really???????? Disney can't even make a working website what in the world makes you think they could pull this off:rotfl:

Stop reading people trying to push your buttons go to WDW have a blast and forget about it

They are giving away (not really, you are paying for it) free dinning and suprises you ADRs are hard to get:confused3

For our family the DDP is a huge pain in the butt so I have no horse in this race. Just go enjoy the magic and have fun with your family :wizard::wizard:

kerickson
06-07-2009, 12:18 PM
Maybe this is in preparation for the Online ADR system that's been rumored?

I think it makes sense. Most airline rewards seats are limited per flight or not at all for certain high demand flights. When booking a Reward voucher I know I will have a limited selection and have to book far in advance to get what I want. Free dining at WDW is a little different but you could see how it could relate...

gkrykewy
06-07-2009, 12:45 PM
I respectfully disagree (except Le Cellier. That place is the most over rated place on the planet).

Maybe if you go for the steak, but dear lord - that cheese soup and those pretzel breads... and the beer selection. :cloud9:

Tara
06-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Maybe if you go for the steak, but dear lord - that cheese soup and those pretzel breads... and the beer selection. :cloud9:

Actually, I had a filet there a few weeks ago that was superb - cooked to medium rare perfection.

Tara
06-07-2009, 02:48 PM
I think they are both. I know one of them actually is a CM, don't know about the other.

Of course, if they are pot-stirring CMs, that doesn't mean their info is inaccurate. You have to keep in mind that a lot of CMs refer to the Mouse as the Rat.

Hmm...rat...that's how I'd refer to people who sign a confidentiality agreement as part of their employment and then violate that agreement...

I don't know if the information is true or not - there certainly seems to be no evidence that DVC members are getting any preference.

JimMIA
06-07-2009, 03:30 PM
Hmm...rat...that's how I'd refer to people who sign a confidentiality agreement as part of their employment and then violate that agreement...Me too, but I was just using that example to illustrate that there are quite a few disgruntled Disney employees. Probably not a lot as a percentage of the overall employee base, but 1% of 65,000 is 650 and that's a lot of folks.

I don't know if the information is true or not - there certainly seems to be no evidence that DVC members are getting any preference.Right, I posted over on the other thread that there is a big difference in the CMs being able to capture data like DVC membership and that information being used to automatically give preference (or less preference) to any particular group. The CM posters over there make that assumption, but it could be nothing more than collecting marketing information.

Brian Noble
06-07-2009, 03:36 PM
the beer selection.
I may not be a food snob, but I am a beer snob. Maybe I should give this place another chance....

The CM posters over there make that assumption, but it could be nothing more than collecting marketing information.
I suspect this is what's going on too. A few CMs "notice" that they can't book something for someone who happens to be offsite. The next day they can book that restaurant on that day for someone in the Poly. "A ha! A conspriacy!" When, really, it was nothing more complicated than someone else cancelling a meal.

jackskellingtonsgirl
06-07-2009, 04:24 PM
I think part of it is that the new dining ressie system is just weird.

We were going to do 2 nights at Universal (I know, evil). But we decided not to. So that left me with 2 nights without ADRs. I called Member services to see if we could stay at Kidani for some of the nights, and also to see about dinner availability. We were about 65 days out.

I asked for Cali Grill, and she offered me 5:30 PM. Nope, way too early for us, so I asked for Citrico's around 7 PM. Lo and behold, there was Cali Grill for 7:30! It was weird.

There is NO TELLING what the CMs are entering when they look for ADRs, so there is no way to know if there really is no availability or if they simply aren't looking for it the way they need to.

DebbieB
06-07-2009, 05:59 PM
Hmm...rat...that's how I'd refer to people who sign a confidentiality agreement as part of their employment and then violate that agreement...

I don't know if the information is true or not - there certainly seems to be no evidence that DVC members are getting any preference.

This cm is claiming that she did not sign a confidentiality agreement. I thought all Disney employees signed one. :confused3

dvcdisney
06-08-2009, 09:20 AM
I think we'd have to wait and see if this is true. If they started when the new system was put in place and then I don't think it's true. Since quite a few of us had some difficulty getting the ADRs that we want.

However, if it is to begin when online ADRs are offered to the general public, then we'll just have to wait and see.

I just don't see this happening. (As I have said in my other posts) I still feel that DVC members should have an ADRs perk involving an earlier booking window. And all it would require is booking through MS. (But, granted, this is controversial as well.) I believe anything more, ie this tier for dining would be too difficult for the current system to handle.

Mickey Fliers
06-08-2009, 09:35 AM
Both of my siblings are CM's...one is in entertainment another is a food and beverage manager. From what I have been told, only the one in entertainment has signed a confidentiality agreement.

Starr W.
06-08-2009, 09:41 AM
I think is a bunch of bull#%#, I posted this at the dinning forum boy people get all fired up over some crazy things with no proof. I can think of many things going thru the forums that people went nuts over and where going to boycott Disney, sell pts or whatever. Even things that came out to occur and I don't want to start another flame thread but I think we all know what those items are, anyway here is my $1.50 worth on the subject:

An easier way to do this, and yes even from a programing perspective would be to give the people with these supposed "tiers" a larger ADR window. This would be sooooooooooo much easier than trying to block off certain times or whatever the "Disney black ops" backers think is going on.

Come on really???????? Disney can't even make a working website what in the world makes you think they could pull this off:rotfl:

Stop reading people trying to push your buttons go to WDW have a blast and forget about it

They are giving away (not really, you are paying for it) free dinning and suprises you ADRs are hard to get:confused3

For our family the DDP is a huge pain in the butt so I have no horse in this race. Just go enjoy the magic and have fun with your family :wizard::wizard:

:thumbsup2

"Disney Black Ops" :rotfl2::rotfl2:

ead79
06-08-2009, 09:53 AM
I'm pretty skeptical of this whole thing myself...

1) Right now people are very frustrated with the lack of ADRs--a combination of free dining difficulties and the hard to use new ADR system. This seems like the perfect time for some pot stirring since people are already upset by the lack of ADRs.

2) How on earth would Disney handle people who fall into multiple categories? For instance, I'm a DVC member and AP holder. But I also have TIW. In October I'm considering a club level stay on cash at the BoardWalk Inn. So what on earth would the system do with me? I'm sure I can't be the only person that would fall into a bunch of different categories.

3) Disney has filed patents that would enable different numbers of Fastpasses based on different levels of resort the guest is staying at. At this point they have chosen not to use that concept and have kept Fastpass as a free service to anyone regardless of what resort level you're staying at or if you're onsite or offsite. So it seems odd to me that they would implement a "caste" system for dining but not for Fastpass.

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Just responding hypothetically -- I have no idea what is really going on.2) How on earth would Disney handle people who fall into multiple categories? For instance, I'm a DVC member and AP holder. But I also have TIW. In October I'm considering a club level stay on cash at the BoardWalk Inn. So what on earth would the system do with me? I'm sure I can't be the only person that would fall into a bunch of different categories.I think that would be very easy for the computer system to manage -- you would be placed in the highest category you qualified for. Where I think it would get sticky is when guests MOVE during a stay from one category to another.

3) Disney has filed patents that would enable different numbers of Fastpasses based on different levels of resort the guest is staying at. At this point they have chosen not to use that concept and have kept Fastpass as a free service to anyone regardless of what resort level you're staying at or if you're onsite or offsite. So it seems odd to me that they would implement a "caste" system for dining but not for Fastpass.I don't think that's odd. Disney does that kind of targeted marketing all the time. For example, if you'll recall, we couldn't even BUY DDP when it first started because it was initially created as a lodging incentive and they knew we were coming to WDW regardless.

I'd love to see them implement some of those FP ideas. I'm sure they will never do away with the free public FP's, but they could implement some level of preference for onsite guests, or deluxe & DVC. They already do minimal FP preference with the B-day FPs. If they'd extend just that kind of limited FP preference for length-of-stay for DVC, that would be a huge perk for ALL of us.

cobbler
06-08-2009, 10:43 AM
(PS: lest you think I'm a food snob, I'm also partial to The Varsity just outside of Georgia Tech's campus, in Atlanta.


GAG ME!! :crazy2:
Oh my gosh, ate there once and it was the most disgusting, undercooked, greasy crap ever. I threw over 50% of it away. I keep hearing everyone talk about it, especially on the travel chanel and whatnot and I don't understand. Maybe we went on a bad day but BLECH!!!

Brian Noble
06-08-2009, 10:54 AM
Well, it wasn't undercooked. But, it was greasy and disgusting in a totally awesome way. ;)

Snookies
06-08-2009, 11:17 AM
Well, it wasn't undercooked. But, it was greasy and disgusting in a totally awesome way. ;)

This brings back pleasant memories of my undergrad & grad student days at Ga Tech, particularly your comment about "greasy and disgusting in a totally awesome way." :) If I had a nickel for every time we ate at The Varsity...

BTW, they used to have a sign posted at one of the ordering lines that said "Have your order in mind and money in hand." I've often thought that sign would be useful at WDW.

ead79
06-08-2009, 11:22 AM
Just responding hypothetically -- I have no idea what is really going on. I think that would be very easy for the computer system to manage -- you would be placed in the highest category you qualified for. Where I think it would get sticky is when guests MOVE during a stay from one category to another.

I don't think that's odd. Disney does that kind of targeted marketing all the time. For example, if you'll recall, we couldn't even BUY DDP when it first started because it was initially created as a lodging incentive and they knew we were coming to WDW regardless.

I'd love to see them implement some of those FP ideas. I'm sure they will never do away with the free public FP's, but they could implement some level of preference for onsite guests, or deluxe & DVC. They already do minimal FP preference with the B-day FPs. If they'd extend just that kind of limited FP preference for length-of-stay for DVC, that would be a huge perk for ALL of us.

I'd hope and like to think that each guest would be put in the highest category they qualified for, but it could theoretically just as easily default to the lowest category. I'm hoping they wouldn't do that. If they do, then I personally would try to keep my TIW card a secret (like putting the ADRs in DH's name since the TIW card is in my name). Seems silly to be that I could potentially have to engage in subterfuge just to get an ADR, LOL!

To me, targeted marketing is one thing, and essentially limiting which restaurants certain groups of folks will be able to eat at is different altogether. For example with the Fastpass scenario, as long as Disney kept the current system for everyone (including offsite guests) and just added more Fastpass perks for on-site guests (even different levels for different resort levels) then everyone would be happy. However, if only concierge or deluxe resort guests could ever get a table at Le Cellier or Chef Mickey's, then that's really disappointing. Although it sounds like DVC members would qualify for the highest tier, it would still make me sad for the folks that wouldn't.

Please excuse my vent: I HATE the dining plan and all the drama it has caused with getting a simple dining reservation!!!

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 11:58 AM
I'd hope and like to think that each guest would be put in the highest category they qualified for, but it could theoretically just as easily default to the lowest category. I'm hoping they wouldn't do that. If they do, then I personally would try to keep my TIW card a secret (like putting the ADRs in DH's name since the TIW card is in my name). Seems silly to be that I could potentially have to engage in subterfuge just to get an ADR, LOL! I'm sure they would default it to the highest; it would make no sense (even Mouse-sense) to do it any other way.

Also, on the TiW card, the CMs posted only very sketchy info. However, the way I read the info about the TiW, I assumed they were talking about guests who didn't qualify for any other preference. For example, someone who was staying offsite or lives in Orlando, but purchased a TiW card, would get preference over Free DDP folks.

I can't imagine them downgrading anyone because they purchased a TiW card with the intention of spending a bunch of money on Disney food! That would be nuts.

SaratogaShan
06-08-2009, 01:01 PM
This brings back pleasant memories of my undergrad & grad student days at Ga Tech, particularly your comment about "greasy and disgusting in a totally awesome way." :) If I had a nickel for every time we ate at The Varsity...

BTW, they used to have a sign posted at one of the ordering lines that said "Have your order in mind and money in hand." I've often thought that sign would be useful at WDW.

Mmmmmm.......greasy onion rings. I have to limit myself to once per month or so. I work on Tech campus, so it would be way too easy to overindulge!

dvcdisney
06-08-2009, 01:49 PM
BTW, they used to have a sign posted at one of the ordering lines that said "Have your order in mind and money in hand." I've often thought that sign would be useful at WDW.


OT but....I agree! They should have very large signs written in every language in BIG BOLD LETTERS in every CS or Snack Service area in WDW! :thumbsup2

overkill?....maybe...necessary? DEFINITELY!

pilferk
06-08-2009, 01:50 PM
An easier way to do this, and yes even from a programing perspective would be to give the people with these supposed "tiers" a larger ADR window. This would be sooooooooooo much easier than trying to block off certain times or whatever the "Disney black ops" backers think is going on.


I don't know, one way or the other, if it's occuring but....actually the programming behind what's being suggested is pretty simple stuff.

The table turnover calcuations are already done...that's part of the ADR system's back end. All that would remain would be to add ONE field "rating" each table as a type (say 1 -4). The programming to ensure that type 1 can see all table types while type 4 can only see type 4's is easy filter stuff, especially if they have your ressie/confirmation number. One crosswalk table would do the whole thing. You're talking MS Office Applications level logic here...something that's easily accomplished in 10 minutes in MS Access. Any relatively simple front end, SQL backend, or Oracle back end could handle this type of thing with no problem and any programmer with limited skills could design and code it.

It has the added advantage of not requiring any sort of public policy change or customer education. You'd simply see the outcome in increased availability to certain "types" of customers.

It'll be interesting to find out if it's true or not....

pilferk
06-08-2009, 01:54 PM
Well, it wasn't undercooked. But, it was greasy and disgusting in a totally awesome way. ;)

I'm right there with ya.

In my home town, there is a Diner...it was like the only 24 hr place that served food in our dinky 14k pop town.

They make something called a rockadoodle. It's sort of like a sausage mcmuffin, though it predates them by a good 20 years (my mom remembers eating them back in HS...and she's in her mid 50's). They are the greasiest, "nastiest" thing you'll ever see...they turn paper sacks into greased soaked shambles.

But they are the most awesome thing at 2AM when you've just closed down one of the local drinking establishments. :)

Brian Noble
06-08-2009, 02:08 PM
I can't imagine them downgrading anyone because they purchased a TiW card with the intention of spending a bunch of money on Disney food! That would be nuts.
Actually, it makes perfect sense.

Take the primo example from this thread---Le Cellier. There are probably about 2-3x as many people who want to eat there as there is space. Let's suppose 20% of those people have TIW cards. If you just randomly assigned the guests who wanted to go to available slots, you'd have 20% of them getting a discount. But, if you gave preference to those without cards, many fewer would be getting a discount, and the restaurant's revenue would increase.

(Yes, it's likely that TIW holders order a nicer entree, or an after dinner drink, but they probably don't order enough extra to make up for the discount and their material costs go up, too.)

I can also guarantee you that the assignment isn't random. People who hold TIWs are more likely than the average guest to plan their ADRs farther in advance---they know how dining works---and so the real proportion of TIW holders is probably higher than 20% if you just rely on call times.

Edited to add: it's also interesting to ask what each category of guest would do if LC is full. The TIW guest is likely to reserve something else---after all, they're getting a discount. (Same with a DDP guest.) The cash guest might balk---"Marrakesh? Nah, we'll just grab something somewhere instead."

Tara
06-08-2009, 05:06 PM
Actually, it makes perfect sense.

Take the primo example from this thread---Le Cellier. There are probably about 2-3x as many people who want to eat there as there is space. Let's suppose 20% of those people have TIW cards. If you just randomly assigned the guests who wanted to go to available slots, you'd have 20% of them getting a discount. But, if you gave preference to those without cards, many fewer would be getting a discount, and the restaurant's revenue would increase.

(Yes, it's likely that TIW holders order a nicer entree, or an after dinner drink, but they probably don't order enough extra to make up for the discount and their material costs go up, too.)

I can also guarantee you that the assignment isn't random. People who hold TIWs are more likely than the average guest to plan their ADRs farther in advance---they know how dining works---and so the real proportion of TIW holders is probably higher than 20% if you just rely on call times.

Edited to add: it's also interesting to ask what each category of guest would do if LC is full. The TIW guest is likely to reserve something else---after all, they're getting a discount. (Same with a DDP guest.) The cash guest might balk---"Marrakesh? Nah, we'll just grab something somewhere instead."

In reference to what you're responding to here, I thought the poster meant they couldn't imagine Disney downgrading someone with higher priority like a DVC member just because they also had a TIW card. Is that what you understood the poster to mean?

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 05:19 PM
In reference to what you're responding to here, I thought the poster meant they couldn't imagine Disney downgrading someone with higher priority like a DVC member just because they also had a TIW card. Is that what you understood the poster to mean?
Actually, you're both right depending on which part of my post you read.

IMHO (assuming the system exists at all), the system would place a DVC member in the DVC category regardless of any other qualifications they might have because that's the higest category...according to the two CMs. Whether that's "fair" or not is another question, but according to the CMs the highest category was DVC/Concierge guests.

But with regard to the offsite guest, TiW holders would get preference including preference over Free DDP people.

I repeat this is all guesswork, but to me that would be a system that made sense by favoring those who are more likely to be repeat customers or are paying money for something over those who are attracted by the bargain promotions.

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 05:23 PM
You're talking MS Office Applications level logic here...something that's easily accomplished in 10 minutes in MS Access....or in about four years for WDW! :lmao:

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 05:33 PM
It has the added advantage of not requiring any sort of public policy change or customer education. You'd simply see the outcome in increased availability to certain "types" of customers.Yes, and that's a biggie. The same would be true if they created a preferential Fast Pass system, but kept the current "public" system. The difference would be invisible to the average visitor, but the benefit would be noticed by those it was directed toward.

It's not like this is anything new. I used to fly a lot and got great perks from being an elite level frequent flyer. But other passengers had no idea how I got the best seats and they didn't, or got on a flight they got bumped from, or magically made it home in rotten weather while they were stuck in an airport somewhere.

paulh
06-08-2009, 05:40 PM
I'd love to see them implement some of those FP ideas.

Take time out from the park to do a tour anf you will get VIP FPs for which ever day you want.DSil got 10 when she did her tour.
I have said before that tiered FPs will come in related to level of resort
Paulh

Cyndibear
06-08-2009, 07:17 PM
This explains the strange questions we were getting from the Concierge Staff at AK -Jambo House. We have a Sept 5-14 stay planned at AK-Jambo Concierge. When asking them to arrange our ADR's I was asked if we would be on a dining plan. I said no, that we were going to obtain the TIW card when we go in May. They asked me to let them know if we do obtain it and asked for the numbers on the card. I thought that was very strange because I was never asked that when I booked ADR's myself.

I did email them the TIW card number this is the response I received:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:38:43 -0700 (PDT), Animal Kingdom Lodge
Itinerary
Planning <animal.kingdom.lodge.itinerary.planning@disneyworl d.com>
wrote:
Dumela! Cyndi,

Thank you for sending in the Tables in Wonderland information. If for some reason there is availability without the discount but not with
the discount do you want us to book anyway? We are finding in the new booking system that some restaurants limit the number of tables
offered with the Tables in Wonderland discount.


I questioned this as this was new to me and I could not believe that Disney would do this considering I was PAYING EXTRA for TIW. I received this response:

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Animal Kingdom Lodge Itinerary
Planning <animal.kingdom.lodge.itinerary.planning@disneyworl d.com>
wrote:
Dumela! Cyndi,

In the new booking system we have noticed that when we code
membership for Tables in Wonderland sometimes we do not get offers for restaurants when we can get them without the membership. This indicates to us that they are only offering limited numbers of tables available for discount bookings. We think it is similar to room bookings where the number of discount tables is controlled. We have been told that discounts have to be coded at the time of booking. As far as we know this affect
discounts at all restaurnts.

You might want to write to guest communications and ask them about it.

The address is wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com . They may be able to get an official answer. All we know is how the new booking system is behaving and the notice we got that discounts have to be coded at time of booking.


When I booked our ADR's for our May trip I did not mention the TIW card and we did receive the discount at our TS meals.

I have received a tentative itinerary with our ADR's listed and everything I wanted was there. I didn't need much, just Jiko, LeCellier Lunch, and a Cinderella's breakfast. I will email them now to see if the ADR's are final and if I can use my TIW card.

Cyndi

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 07:29 PM
WOW! "Dumela" must mean "...to enhance the DVC Member guest experience as a result of member feedback!"

That's really nuts. It's like telling me, "We see you are a frequent flyer with us, so we've put you right next to the bathrooms in the back and bumped you off your connecting flight!" Looks like Brian Noble was right.

I'd sure withhold the number and just present the card at the table.

*KeepMovingForward*
06-08-2009, 07:29 PM
When I booked our ADR's for our May trip I did not mention the TIW card and we did receive the discount at our TS meals.

I have received a tentative itinerary with our ADR's listed and everything I wanted was there. I didn't need much, just Jiko, LeCellier Lunch, and a Cinderella's breakfast. I will email them now to see if the ADR's are final and if I can use my TIW card.

Cyndi

I was wondering what they would do if you don't mention your TIW, but then present it at the meal. Surely they won't deny you the discount-at least I hope not.

deej696
06-08-2009, 07:38 PM
Wow, thats incredible. Thanks for sharing that email Cyndi. I didnt put a lot of stock into this whole "tiered" thing (Jim can attest from another thread), but reading that email begins to give more validity to it, as its the first evidence of being denyed a reservation time when in fact they are available. I've never mentioned I'm TIW, and I'm certainly not gonna start now....:confused3

Cyndibear
06-08-2009, 07:44 PM
When I saw this thread, it all made so much sense. I just thought it had something to do with being in Concierge. I guess not. I couldn't believe the responses I received. I just emailed Concierge to see about our ADR's and if we can use TIW discount. I'll post the response.

For future ADR's I will not mention the TIW card either.

Cyndi

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 07:50 PM
When I saw this thread, it all made so much sense. I just thought it had something to do with being in Concierge. I guess not. I couldn't believe the responses I received. I just emailed Concierge to see about our ADR's and if we can use TIW discount. I'll post the response.

For future ADR's I will not mention the TIW card either.

Cyndi
If all this proves to be true...what is the point of staying in Concierge? Seems to me like a waste of points if the benefits are withdrawn the minute they find out you have a TiW card.

I know there are other benefits of concierge, but I think they're pretty trivial compared to the presumed ADR benefit of staying in Concierge.

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 08:17 PM
You know...:scratchin

if you go back and read the original CM posts, and then compare that to Cyndibear's emails...there might be a totally different interpretation.

With the exception of concierge (which appears to mean nothing), all of the inputs the system is requesting are for various groups who get DISCOUNTS -- DVC, AP, TIW, CM, etc.

Because DVC and concierge are mentioned in the same breath, we all assume that means DVC members get preference. But if you stop and think about it, it makes no sense that DVC would get preference and a cash guest at Poly would not.

What if...?

What if this system was not a system with some preferences and some penalties...but a system totally designed to limit reservations which might generate discounted checks? In other words, not in FAVOR of DVC members, but against DVC members because of the 10% discount we get at some restaurants.

I'd hate to think we would be discriminated against because of our DVC membership. But if you read the CM's posts, Cyndibear's emails, and Brian Noble's logic...hmmm!

Brian Noble
06-08-2009, 08:30 PM
Jim, I think you might be on the right track. And, as I said before, it doesn't suprirse me one bit. After all, Disney is masterful at extracting as much revenue from the Resort's assets as possible.

Operationally, I don't think it will matter for the DVC and AP discounts. Those are designed to put fannies in seats that aren't otherwise occupied---they generally only apply to under-utilized restaurants/times, or to generate business for a new location, etc. By definition, those places aren't full.

The real question is: what do they do with DDP? On the one hand, DDP is immensely valuable to the Resort, because it helps tie up a family as a captive audience. On the other hand, some places are positively pillaged by the DDP reimbursement rate.

deej696
06-08-2009, 08:30 PM
Very interesting points Jim. I've never once used the DVC dining discount, as I've always had TIW where the discount is greater. I think you are definitely on to something....

Perhaps instead of a tiered system for reservation availability, its a tiered system for discount availability....

Brian Noble
06-08-2009, 08:34 PM
You might want to write to guest communications and ask them about it.
FYI: this is Cast Member code for "You really ought to complain about this."

Mich Mouse
06-08-2009, 08:47 PM
You know...:scratchin

if you go back and read the original CM posts, and then compare that to Cyndibear's emails...there might be a totally different interpretation.

With the exception of concierge (which appears to mean nothing), all of the inputs the system is requesting are for various groups who get DISCOUNTS -- DVC, AP, TIW, CM, etc.

Because DVC and concierge are mentioned in the same breath, we all assume that means DVC members get preference. But if you stop and think about it, it makes no sense that DVC would get preference and a cash guest at Poly would not.

What if...?

What if this system was not a system with some preferences and some penalties...but a system totally designed to limit reservations which might generate discounted checks? In other words, not in FAVOR of DVC members, but against DVC members because of the 10% discount we get at some restaurants.

I'd hate to think we would be discriminated against because of our DVC membership. But if you read the CM's posts, Cyndibear's emails, and Brian Noble's logic...hmmm!

That is really the most believable scenario thus far.:thumbsup2

Though I have called three times in the last two weeks to add ressies and have not been asked if I am TIW...but that could be because they already know I am DVC! ;)

I wonder if we will every really know the truth??

deej696
06-08-2009, 09:04 PM
One thing I find odd is that the TIW identifier was removed from the TA system. I remember when it first was released, there was a check box for TIW, DVC, and AP. Given the fact that TIW applies basically everywhere, and has a bigger discount than the others, one would think they'd want to limit this one the most. Not sure how this fits into the theory, but FWIW....

Of course, that goes back to what I was saying earlier but now its that I dont understand why Disney would have a tiered system for discounts on the CM system, and a non-tiered system for those who book ADRs online....

ead79
06-08-2009, 09:10 PM
This explains the strange questions we were getting from the Concierge Staff at AK -Jambo House. We have a Sept 5-14 stay planned at AK-Jambo Concierge. When asking them to arrange our ADR's I was asked if we would be on a dining plan. I said no, that we were going to obtain the TIW card when we go in May. They asked me to let them know if we do obtain it and asked for the numbers on the card. I thought that was very strange because I was never asked that when I booked ADR's myself.

I did email them the TIW card number this is the response I received:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:38:43 -0700 (PDT), Animal Kingdom Lodge
Itinerary
Planning <animal.kingdom.lodge.itinerary.planning@disneyworl d.com>
wrote:
Dumela! Cyndi,

Thank you for sending in the Tables in Wonderland information. If for some reason there is availability without the discount but not with
the discount do you want us to book anyway? We are finding in the new booking system that some restaurants limit the number of tables
offered with the Tables in Wonderland discount.


I questioned this as this was new to me and I could not believe that Disney would do this considering I was PAYING EXTRA for TIW. I received this response:

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Animal Kingdom Lodge Itinerary
Planning <animal.kingdom.lodge.itinerary.planning@disneyworl d.com>
wrote:
Dumela! Cyndi,

In the new booking system we have noticed that when we code
membership for Tables in Wonderland sometimes we do not get offers for restaurants when we can get them without the membership. This indicates to us that they are only offering limited numbers of tables available for discount bookings. We think it is similar to room bookings where the number of discount tables is controlled. We have been told that discounts have to be coded at the time of booking. As far as we know this affect
discounts at all restaurnts.

You might want to write to guest communications and ask them about it.

The address is wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com . They may be able to get an official answer. All we know is how the new booking system is behaving and the notice we got that discounts have to be coded at time of booking.


When I booked our ADR's for our May trip I did not mention the TIW card and we did receive the discount at our TS meals.

I have received a tentative itinerary with our ADR's listed and everything I wanted was there. I didn't need much, just Jiko, LeCellier Lunch, and a Cinderella's breakfast. I will email them now to see if the ADR's are final and if I can use my TIW card.

Cyndi

Wow, this email really changes my opinion of this rumor. To me it really substantiates it. The concierge has no reason to tell folks this unless they had really seen the TIW discount affect availability.

All I can say is that if Disney does continue this, they will be getting some strongly worded letters from me. I am livid at the very idea of this! I had to PAY for the TIW card in the first place. We typically eat 2 table service meals per day, so even with a 20% discount, we're still making Disney more money than a guest on the dining plan. If this is confirmed by Guest Relations, then I'm sending a letter. This infuriates me! :mad: What really blows my mind is all the lengths that Disney seems to be willing to go to in order to make dining more profitable. If offering the DDP at the current price isn't profitable enough, then increase the price for it. Don't take it out on folks that aren't using the DDP!

Until this is hopefully straightened out, I won't offer up info about my TIW membership. I'll have DH call to make our ADRs since he doesn't have a TIW card.

Mich Mouse
06-08-2009, 09:35 PM
This information is appalling!

As I posted before when making multiple ressies over the last few weeks I have not been asked about any discounts...

Is that not the common experience here??

Tara
06-08-2009, 09:36 PM
You know...:scratchin

if you go back and read the original CM posts, and then compare that to Cyndibear's emails...there might be a totally different interpretation.

With the exception of concierge (which appears to mean nothing), all of the inputs the system is requesting are for various groups who get DISCOUNTS -- DVC, AP, TIW, CM, etc.

Because DVC and concierge are mentioned in the same breath, we all assume that means DVC members get preference. But if you stop and think about it, it makes no sense that DVC would get preference and a cash guest at Poly would not.

What if...?

What if this system was not a system with some preferences and some penalties...but a system totally designed to limit reservations which might generate discounted checks? In other words, not in FAVOR of DVC members, but against DVC members because of the 10% discount we get at some restaurants.

I'd hate to think we would be discriminated against because of our DVC membership. But if you read the CM's posts, Cyndibear's emails, and Brian Noble's logic...hmmm!

This makes tons of sense to me and goes back to my belief that if Disney were going to offer some kind of preference, it wouldn't be to DVC members! I do believe that there could be an effort to limit discount bookings - first they increased the TIW price, now they're (possibly) limiting bookings.

But when I read it, I think "wait...DVC, AP, CM, TIW - those are all discount possibilities. So where does concierge fit into the mix?" My hunch is that the former group narrows the field of choice somewhat, and the latter gives some amount of override or "reserve tables," thereby widening the field.

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 09:38 PM
Until this is hopefully straightened out, I won't offer up info about my TIW membership. I'll have DH call to make our ADRs since he doesn't have a TIW card.Our last two trips have included good friends joining us on the last 3 days of the trip. They don't stay with us; we just do the parks and stuff together. They're not DVC, not TiW, not AP, etc. As a matter of fact, last time they stayed offsite. :eek:

We haven't been eating much onsite since Disney Dining scuttled the DDP a couple of years ago, but we normally do a character meal with that other family. We'll see how this pans out, but I think next time, we'll have them make the ADR!

JimMIA
06-08-2009, 09:44 PM
So where does concierge fit into the mix?" My hunch is that the former group narrows the field of choice somewhat, and the latter gives some amount of override or "reserve tables," thereby widening the field.Cyndibear's emails tend to lead to an opposite conclusion -- that Concierge means something unless you are DVC, TiW, AP etc.

They're certainly not telling her they can make ADRs happen anyway, despite the fact she has an TiW card! I agree with Brian that what they're really telling her is that she needs to complain.

Tara
06-08-2009, 10:03 PM
Cyndibear's emails tend to lead to an opposite conclusion -- that Concierge means something unless you are DVC, TiW, AP etc.

They're certainly not telling her they can make ADRs happen anyway, despite the fact she has an TiW card! I agree with Brian that what they're really telling her is that she needs to complain.

I think we're actually saying the same thing. I meant that concierge is one of the factors taken into account by the new system (presumably), but it has the opposite effect that the other factors have. It could very well be that it's a "one choice only" menu and if they choose TIW, they don't find tables, but if they choose concierge (or choose nothing), they do find availability.

This would also lead me to believe that if you are DVC, you will have much better luck getting the restaurants with no DVC discount. And that if I call and use 90+10 and don't get availability on the 91, 92, 93 etc day out ADRs when mentioning one of the 4 discounts, I can call back at 90 days out for that particular day (just as any offsite guest with no reservation number could) and have possibly just as good a chance at booking what I wanted without mentioning any discount. My thinking here is that if you are mentioning a reservation number and you're DVC, they'll automatically know that and your choice will be limited.

And yes, I agree that the signal to complain is pretty clear.

sgtdisney
06-08-2009, 10:22 PM
I don't know, I would still see this as a way to keep customers at Disney and also in the parks. DVC members enjoy the luxury of knowing that they can (and do) go back every year. I can honestly say, as a member who has going for 17 years now, if I can't get an ADR it isn't a big deal. I will skip eating in a TS restaurant, and many times just leave the property. "We'll just go there next year" is what comes to mind.

However for people on the DDP and more specifically, the free dining plan, they aren't going ANYWHERE. They are a captive audience, if they can't get into Restaurant A, they will have to go to Restaurant B and if that doesn't work, well then they'll have to settle for a less popular Restaurant C. They aren't going to leave the property if their favorites aren't available. I think Disney may be using this new tier process as a way to fill some of the restaurants that don't normally get filled. Really, people are on free dining are getting free meals, I can see Disney giving them a lower priority than others at the resort. They have to eat at Disney regardless of where they get ADRs.

For all we know, the restaurants that offer discounts to DVC members may not be coded to give DVC members a priority, whereas restaurants where DVC members don't get a discunt may. The system could be coded to be specific to dining establishment as what priority is given to whom. I agree seeing how things have gone over the years, it seems strange to give DVC members a benefit, but if they are filling popular restaurants with cash diners, that is a benefit to Disney as well.

Not quite sure how TIW fits in here. I thought that discount program originally was created to be sold to Florida residents to fill the nicer restaurants, particularly in times where attendance is lower. Then they added the ability for AP holders to purchase it. Is this the case? I can see them trying to, as with the dining plan, get people using this type of discount into less popular restaurants. Not saying this is right, but in one way it makes sense fiscally. However Disney allowing this information to get out, specifically for the TIW reservations, is not good for Public Relations.

It should be interesting. Like I mentioned earlier, I called after the 90 day mark to get reservations for early August (not during free dining) but a prime time none the less. I gave them my DVC reservation number and got into places like Chef Mickey's and a couple of Epcot restaurants that I used to have trouble getting into in the past, especially considering i was reserving a table for 6. I got an ADR time at or within 15 mins or my requested time in each case.

Cyndibear
06-09-2009, 07:27 AM
Here is my response to my email about if ADR's were made and about using the TIW discount:

Dumela! Cyndi,

I was able to book everything but had to book Le Cellier without the
Tables in Wonderland attached to it. It applied to the other two
bookings and Cinderella's was booked with the discount.

I am still going to try to use the TIW discount, if not, since it is a lunch reservation, I will use the DVC discount.

Cyndi

allshookup
06-09-2009, 08:16 AM
It does appear to make sense that they had my res # & they knew I was DVC so they didn't bother asking me if I was TIW & maybe that's why I couldn't get Le Cellier, Mama Melrose, etc. 90+ days for dinner. Still amazes me that Disney would go through all this trouble, but yet the system still shows restaurants booked when they sometimes end up half empty. I would think they would fix that problem before they start eliminating diners with a discount. :mad:

bjakmom
06-09-2009, 08:56 AM
Here's what I experienced back in March when making my June ADRs, but thought the CM comment was just 'a crazy CM comment':crazy: - now it makes sense (at least a bit).
Here's the way it happened. Gave my ADRs to CL - Called the next AM to check and somehow I fell through the cracks, they did not call on my 90+ day, so called right then (one day late). They were unable to book any lunch time on my first day at Chefs de France (they thought that was very unusual, too). The only time avail the next night for Teppan Edo was 4:50 (I wanted around 7).
So of course I start calling each day myself. Within a few days I am able to get 8:10 for TepE (and a few days later I got my 6:50). On that call the CM still has no times for CdeF for lunch and he makes the comment "perhaps there are no times left for TIW tables" I say "Whaaaat!!!? does that mean?" and he tells me that there are only a certain # of tables available for TIW card holders at any given time - like I said, I immediately write him off as a crazy, doesn't know what he's talking about CM (sorry, I really do love CMs;)), but this is just a completely foreign language he is talking to me - I mean I PAID for this card, get free valet parking, frequent the $$ restaurants with it, and usually get great tables and service, etc - I always thought that WDW LOVED the TIW people:lovestruc
Anyway, within a few days (don't remember exactly), I call again about CdeF and don't mention TIW (just in case), but mention instead that we are staying DVC CL, that they were unable to book my ADR, and I get the noon ADR I was hoping for.
Crazy stuff, but remember, the CL staff could not get this ADR at first either, so who knows!:confused3 Still doesn't make sense that CL was not able to get the ADRs either, though- this was back when the system was a bit crazy. I, for one, will not be mentioning my TIW card again!!

This is what I posted back in post 33 - in light of Cyndibear's email from AKL concierge (where I'm staying also) things now make even more sense to me. When they were making my ADRs they also asked me if I was on DP and I told them TIW (I always offer this info, thinking it's a 'good' thing:rolleyes1) - don't remember giving them the card # though. The system was new at my 90 days in March, so that explains why even CL seemed so confused as to why they couldn't get me those 2 ADRs. Seems to me that yes, they are using a tiered system for ADRs, and that TIW may trump both CL and DVC in limiting availability. I will not mention TiW until I'm having dessert - there is no rule that states TIW must be booked with the card - at least not yet!

gkrykewy
06-09-2009, 09:00 AM
This is all very interesting/troubling... FWIW, when I called at 90+10 a few weeks ago, I did get all of my requested reservations at the times I wanted (including Cali Grill, 2x dinner at Le Cellier), and I did mention to the CM that it was a DVC reservation, and that we have DDE/TIW (the latter was an offhand comment, when she suggested that if we were dining TS every night, maybe we should consider the DDP).

So DVC/TIW obviously didn't hurt my availability.

It could very well be that it's a "one choice only" menu and if they choose TIW, they don't find tables, but if they choose concierge (or choose nothing), they do find availability.

Except for the "or choose nothing" presumption (and we don't know if these AKV concierge staff were choosing concierge as their non-TIW default choice), this would actually be consistent with the initial reports of more favorable treatment for DVC, concierge, etc.

This is becoming a big enough deal that Disney may actually have to say something about it. I haven't fully caught up on my podcasts - have Pete and the podcast crew said anything on this yet?

JimMIA
06-09-2009, 09:53 AM
It does appear to make sense that they had my res # & they knew I was DVC so they didn't bother asking me if I was TIW & maybe that's why I couldn't get Le Cellier, Mama Melrose, etc. 90+ days for dinner. Still amazes me that Disney would go through all this trouble, but yet the system still shows restaurants booked when they sometimes end up half empty. I would think they would fix that problem before they start eliminating diners with a discount. :mad:
If you were in your +10 period, it's not surprising that you didn't get the ADRs. They have never made all tables available during the +10 period, only a portion of them.

If that's the case, call back -- you may have luck within the regular 90 days.

brookelizabeth
06-09-2009, 01:21 PM
Any relatively simple front end, SQL backend, or Oracle back end could handle this type of thing with no problem and any programmer with limited skills could design and code it.


GEEK ALERT! :rotfl:

;)

But you know I am one too! Geeks unite!

Disney should hire YOU to do their stuff, maybe then it would make sense!



I am pretty :eek: about this. I DO think we DVCers should get some extra bonus for dining, espeically during peak times. We are loyal customers. We also have an easier ability to cook right in our room, so a nice discount + an easy time making ADRs would make it even more likely for me to go into the restaurants on our trips. An earlier window would be very easy.

Cyndi's emails are kinda shocking that even CL at a Deluxe doesn't know what the stink is going on. :sad2: What poor communication within the company.

Has anyone emailed on it yet to get the scoop? I'm going to.




This is becoming a big enough deal that Disney may actually have to say something about it. I haven't fully caught up on my podcasts - have Pete and the podcast crew said anything on this yet?

I just listened to the most recent and they haven't said anything yet - I think this "news" just started this week, so possibly on next weeks show. There is a thread going on the PodCast boards about this too.

brookelizabeth
06-09-2009, 01:32 PM
I just emailed them. I started out nice, but got a little firery at the end! :rotfl:



Hello,
I frequent a message board on the topic of Walt Disney World and have recently been alerted of a change in your Dining Reservations system.

It seems no one is quite clear on how it works; however, a fellow member of the message board who is staying at Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge, Concierge Level, was recently told by Concierge that they could not book a certain sought-after dinner reservation with her Tables in Wonderland discount card, but they could without the card.

This tells us that because this person chose to spend money on a discount card, she is now going to be limited on what Dining Reservations she is able to make and receive the discount with. This discount card, that she paid for, also requires that an 18% gratuity be added despite what the service she actually receives deserves.

Being that I am a Tables in Wonderland carrier as well, and I am visiting Walt Disney World during Premier Week (December 26-January 1) I am becoming very concerned of making Dining Reservations. Thankfully we are also Disney Vacation Club members and have a kitchen - so I'll just save my money and not bother with eating on property if this is the case!!

If you cannot tell, this supposed news is quite upsetting. You have many, many, many loyal customers. People that purchase the Tables in Wonderland card are Annual Passholders. LOYAL customers that return and spend money in your parks and at your restaurants. Many of these people are also Vacation Club Members (like myself), again, LOYAL customers. We come back year after year (sometimes more often!), spend money in your stores and do enjoy eating in the restaurants. If this new system is in fact true, why are we being penalized? Ask any other company-they reward their loyal customers.

I do appreciate your time and I hope my email is completely false.

I look forward to your reply,
-Brook *******

Brian Noble
06-09-2009, 01:46 PM
DO think we DVCers should get some extra bonus for dining, espeically during peak times. We are loyal customers.
Discounts do not reward loyalty. Discounts are given only because they are expected to lead to more business, not less. DVC members do get a discount for dining---but generally at the less-popular restaurants and at the less-popular times. AP discounts are similar. In effect, the "loyal customers" are being used to soak up excess capacity that the casual visitors don't utilize. When business drops, loyalty discounts go up (to soak up the excess capacity). When business is booming, loyalty discounts drop.

It's pretty simple really.

Remember: at the end of the day, despite all the Welcome Homes, DVC is just another cog in the Parks & Resorts money-printing machine.

gkrykewy
06-09-2009, 01:59 PM
I just emailed them. I started out nice, but got a little firery at the end! :rotfl:

Well done.

Mich Mouse
06-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Does anyone have the e-address to send a question/complaint to?

PrincessV
06-09-2009, 03:16 PM
HOLY COW!!! :scared1::scared1::scared1:

Few changes that net WDW more money surprise me, but this one's pretty shocking, if true. I read through the first few pages yesterday and just saw Cyndi's concierge post. It sure sounds like something's happening.

I was wondering what they would do if you don't mention your TIW, but then present it at the meal. Surely they won't deny you the discount-at least I hope not.
This was my first thought, too. (Okay, my first thought was really "Oh no they di'nt?!" :rotfl:) I've never, ever offered up the fact that I have TIW while making ADRs or sitting to eat. No one's ever known I have it until I put in the folder with the receipt and my credit card to pay. Will a new system based on availability-with-discounts keep me from using it if they weren't informed ahead of time?

Not quite sure how TIW fits in here. I thought that discount program originally was created to be sold to Florida residents to fill the nicer restaurants, particularly in times where attendance is lower. Then they added the ability for AP holders to purchase it. Is this the case? I can see them trying to, as with the dining plan, get people using this type of discount into less popular restaurants. Not saying this is right, but in one way it makes sense fiscally. However Disney allowing this information to get out, specifically for the TIW reservations, is not good for Public Relations.
Hi, Florida resident and semi-local here. :wave: Yes, the DDE/TIW was initially a FL thing, designed to get us locals into the restaurants. And, in my unscientific survey of friends down here, it worked quite well. Most folks I know in the area who frequent WDW have the TIW card and use it often. You're right-on about PR. We're already pretty ticked down here about non-discounted weekends when FL/AP rates have come out, and we'll be most unhappy if our restaurant choices are limited based on TIW membership.

But maybe WDW just doesn't need us anymore. Maybe they're making more money off non-residents and non-DVC guests and we're just costing them money with our discounts. :confused3

As for me, if this is true, and if it begins affecting where I can dine... well, it'll be the end of my dining on-site for table service. Frankly, I can make better at home and cook it in a studio microwave, and for a lot less money! :rolleyes:

Brian Noble
06-09-2009, 03:24 PM
Given the way Disney works, I would expect the TIW discount to be honored if you possess a card in your name, even if it wasn't coded in the reservation. The first rule in the Disney Guest Services Playbook is "Thou shalt not say no to a Guest unless you absolutely have to." After all, this is the same organization that will allow adults to order off kids menus, etc.

crisi
06-09-2009, 03:25 PM
...

Being that I am a Tables in Wonderland carrier as well, and I am visiting Walt Disney World during Premier Week (December 26-January 1) I am becoming very concerned of making Dining Reservations. Thankfully we are also Disney Vacation Club members and have a kitchen - so I'll just save my money and not bother with eating on property if this is the case!!
[/B]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if what Jim and Brian are supposing is true, threating to not eat in their restaurants is exactly what they want to hear. They are filling tables (particularly at that time of year) and would rather fill tables with high margin customers who don't use discounts.

I suspect this may be a sign that discounting has gotten out of hand for Disney - that there are few people paying the prices listed on the menus - and that the people they most want in their restaurants - the clueless first timer staying at a Deluxe with no Dining Plan lots of cash to spend and no ADRs - isn't able to spend their money.

Not that they don't like us TiW holders, or the DDPers, or the AP passholders. But if you can get someone willing to pay you $30 for the steak, or someone who is only paying $40 for the whole meal PLUS a counterservice meal, or someone who is only paying $24 for the steak - as a business - who's backend do you want in that seat? Frankly, your loyalty isn't worth much if I'm not making margin on you today - and for DVCers that's doubly true - all their margin on us for our hotel room was made when we purchased - our DVC stays are doing very little for Disney's profit today. They get out souvienier dollars (but after ten Disney trips in three years, how many ballcaps do you need?), our park admission (often at a very low per day rate for DVCers with an annual pass) and our restaurant dollars (which with a TiW card, is less profitable for them than filling an in demand seat with someone willing to pay full price).

Brian Noble
06-09-2009, 03:33 PM
Exactly.

My only twist is that the clueless first-timer is, I suspect, more likely to be on DDP (or even DxDP), becuase they are pushed very hard by travel agents and WDTC at booking time. The agents push it becuase if they pre-sell it, they get a higher commission on the higher package price. It is also important to Disney, because it is another leg on the three-legged Destination Disney table (DDP, MYW, and ME) that helps guarantee that every minute and dollar of your vacation is spent with Mickey.

So, from a "first principles" point of view, I'm not entirely sure how DDP plays into this.

crisi
06-09-2009, 03:38 PM
Exactly.

My only twist is that the clueless first-timer is, I suspect, more likely to be on DDP (or even DxDP), becuase they are pushed very hard by travel agents and WDTC at booking time. The agents push it becuase if they pre-sell it, they get a higher commission on the higher package price. It is also important to Disney, because it is another leg on the three-legged Destination Disney table (DDP, MYW, and ME) that helps guarantee that every minute and dollar of your vacation is spent with Mickey.

So, from a "first principles" point of view, I'm not entirely sure how DDP plays into this.

Yeah, they are probably pushed hard, but honestly, Disney WANTS that full fare paying guest.

I had an accounting prof once say "the customer you want is the stupid rich guy - unfortunately, its a small market, but if you corner it, you'll make money hand over fist."

ford91exploder
06-09-2009, 04:07 PM
I've noticed being a DVC'er and usually adding the Deluxe Dining Plan I can usually get what I want up to and including CRT, IF I am willing to be flexible about times. DW and I usually give MS a 2 hour window centered around when we want to eat if we want to eat at 7 we say we prefer 7 but anytime between 6 and 8 PM is ok.

But it certainly makes sense that Disney would prioritize those PAYING for dining over those who were granted Dining as an incentive and especially those paying for a premium dining tier albeit the lowest level of premium dining.

brookelizabeth
06-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Well done.

Does anyone have the e-address to send a question/complaint to?

Thank you-I hope others are saying something too. I don't expect we'll get any changes out of it all, but maybe some clear answers.

The address was in Cyndi's email, but here it is again: wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if what Jim and Brian are supposing is true, threating to not eat in their restaurants is exactly what they want to hear. They are filling tables (particularly at that time of year) and would rather fill tables with high margin customers who don't use discounts.

I suspect this may be a sign that discounting has gotten out of hand for Disney - that there are few people paying the prices listed on the menus - and that the people they most want in their restaurants - the clueless first timer staying at a Deluxe with no Dining Plan lots of cash to spend and no ADRs - isn't able to spend their money.

Not that they don't like us TiW holders, or the DDPers, or the AP passholders. But if you can get someone willing to pay you $30 for the steak, or someone who is only paying $40 for the whole meal PLUS a counterservice meal, or someone who is only paying $24 for the steak - as a business - who's backend do you want in that seat? Frankly, your loyalty isn't worth much if I'm not making margin on you today - and for DVCers that's doubly true - all their margin on us for our hotel room was made when we purchased - our DVC stays are doing very little for Disney's profit today. They get out souvienier dollars (but after ten Disney trips in three years, how many ballcaps do you need?), our park admission (often at a very low per day rate for DVCers with an annual pass) and our restaurant dollars (which with a TiW card, is less profitable for them than filling an in demand seat with someone willing to pay full price).

Good point-and you are most likely right!! I am sure during our week they would rather have the full priced person in the seat than the one with the discount card....and during my week, it's gonna fill regardless.

I agree with you that we do have discounted rooms with DVC, and they might not make as much off us in souviner dollars, or even ticket dollars-but they obviously do make more money off us than it costs - otherwise they wouldn't be advertising DVC all over, and it truly would be "the best kept secret".

Starr W.
06-09-2009, 04:50 PM
Exactly.

My only twist is that the clueless first-timer is, I suspect, more likely to be on DDP (or even DxDP), becuase they are pushed very hard by travel agents and WDTC at booking time. The agents push it becuase if they pre-sell it, they get a higher commission on the higher package price. It is also important to Disney, because it is another leg on the three-legged Destination Disney table (DDP, MYW, and ME) that helps guarantee that every minute and dollar of your vacation is spent with Mickey.

So, from a "first principles" point of view, I'm not entirely sure how DDP plays into this.

Yep, those TA's really push the DDP. Was talking to one about a cruise and we got on to Disney. Telling me what a great deal Free Dining was!

And the kicker, it's really easy to get ADR's for that period. :scared1:, but she'll do the booking for you, while you sit there.

DVC Mike
06-09-2009, 05:03 PM
I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

Starr W.
06-09-2009, 05:06 PM
I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

Me either, I just hand it to them with my credit card.

Sammie
06-09-2009, 05:21 PM
Ok, I have not had time to read all the posts, but this is the situation in a nut shell.

Many diners have complained about the effects free dining has had on the upper scale restaurants of being crowded, the menus being changed to reflect lower cost offerings, etc. you have all read the complaints.

Also Disney right now as are many companies are doing everything they can to be cost effective.

So basically dining availiblity will be limited at certain restaurants for users of any discounts, be it TIW, DVC, or free dining. It will be irrelvant where you are staying or which discount you wish to use, using any discount will result in limited seating at certain restaurants. The individual restuarants are being allowed to determine how many tables will be allowed booking with a discount, and this can change seasonally and I do not know which restuarants they are. But I would guess the higher price ones.

If you are asked if you have any dining discount and you do not disclose the info at the time of the booking very likely you will not be able to use the discount at the time of paying. This would completely defeat the purpose of the change and as with all Disney programs it might take a while to tweak it but they will work it out to prevent this.

Basically certain restaurants are limiting, the number of tables to be booked and use a discount.

It has nothing to do with where you are staying but more about do you wish to use a discount at this particular restaurant.

This way for example LeCellier will not be completely booked during free dining with free dining guests.

Greysword
06-09-2009, 05:44 PM
Good letter, Brooke.

I agree with your thoughts. It would be kind of silly from a monetary standpoint to keep DVC from getting ADRs, since we have an alternative, which guarentees Disney gets $0...the Kitchen! :woohoo:

If DVCers DO get the DDP, they are paying for it outright. In addition, it seems Disney would prefer to entice DVC members out of their homes and into the restaurants for most meals, which on't happen if we can't get the ressies (especially during Free Dining). On last thought, if many people are on a free dining plan, then any discounted $$$ Disney receives from DVC, AP, TIW, etc is more than that division is receiving from free diners at other resorts. I don't think limiting DVC is a good business decision. :teacher: :rolleyes1

Oh...one last thought on this, better ADRs would be a marketing point for selling DVC, but worse ADRs could hinder future buyers. :upsidedow

Tara
06-09-2009, 06:08 PM
I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

The problem might be that they won't honor the discount at time of service. (I hope not, but it could turn out to be the case.) I equate it with AP room discounts - you have to book the room from the pool of limited availability. You can't just show up, show your AP and expect the discounted rate to be honored.

Believe me, I REALLY hope this isn't true!

Sammie
06-09-2009, 06:11 PM
The problem might be that they won't honor the discount at time of service. (I hope not, but it could turn out to be the case.) I equate it with AP room discounts - you have to book the room from the pool of limited availability. You can't just show up, show your AP and expect the discounted rate to be honored.

Believe me, I REALLY hope this isn't true!

It is true, see my post above.

JimC
06-09-2009, 06:24 PM
The problem might be that they won't honor the discount at time of service. (I hope not, but it could turn out to be the case.) I equate it with AP room discounts - you have to book the room from the pool of limited availability. You can't just show up, show your AP and expect the discounted rate to be honored.

Believe me, I REALLY hope this isn't true!

I wonder how they could refuse it. The only restrictions mentioned as part of the sale of TIW are eight holidays, Fantasmic dinner packages, Food & Wine dinners and Candlelight Packages. Refusing to honor it, unless the restaurant drops the program entirely, would appear to be inconsistent with what was sold. Changes in participating restaurants are to be announced in TIW newsletters.

mouse
06-09-2009, 06:32 PM
Say, for instance, I make ADR's 90 days out for an upcoming trip. I don't have a TIW card when I make the ADR's. When I arrive at WDW, I decide to purchase the TIW card. Will I be told before or after I fork over my $75 that I will not be able to use the card for my already made ADR's, even though those restaurants are on the TIW list.

crisi
06-09-2009, 06:35 PM
I agree with you that we do have discounted rooms with DVC, and they might not make as much off us in souviner dollars, or even ticket dollars-but they obviously do make more money off us than it costs - otherwise they wouldn't be advertising DVC all over, and it truly would be "the best kept secret".

That's because DVC is HIGHLY profitable for them at your initial purchase. Its a LOT of money in their pockets right now - and the commitment for you to continue to come - albeit with a far lower margin - for the long term future. To a big company, a lot of money today and a small amount committed in the future is a way better deal than a moderate amount of money each year that is uncertain.

But once they have you, they've made many of the dollars they are going to make off you. And then, how interested are they really in keeping you delighted? Content, sure, delighted - they'll save that for people paying $500 a night at the Yacht Club.

DisneyWalker44
06-09-2009, 06:45 PM
Disney should hire YOU to do their stuff, maybe then it would make sense! There's not a knowledgeable/experienced large-project corporate programmer in the world who would make a statement like that without a thorough review of the business requirements. The fact that he would say that tells you he's the last person Disney should hire.

Starr W.
06-09-2009, 06:53 PM
Say, for instance, I make ADR's 90 days out for an upcoming trip. I don't have a TIW card when I make the ADR's. When I arrive at WDW, I decide to purchase the TIW card. Will I be told before or after I fork over my $75 that I will not be able to use the card for my already made ADR's, even though those restaurants are on the TIW list.

Unless they want to kill the TIW program.

Donald is #1
06-09-2009, 09:32 PM
I never mention I have the Tables in Wonderland (TIW nee DDE) card when I check in at a restaurant, and I'm sure not going to mention it when I make a reservation.

I'll just hand it to them along with my credit card when I pay the bill.

Mike, I do the same thing. Basically, I tell the server about my TIW when they are getting my bill.

Cyndibear
06-09-2009, 09:58 PM
Mike, I do the same thing. Basically, I tell the server about my TIW when they are getting my bill.


I would of done the same thing for this September trip and I would have made my own ADR's but I thought hey, I'm staying Concierge, why not let them do the work for me. I guess I will learn at Le Cellier when I present the TIW card and they deny it. I'll then try the DVC card and if that is denied, I'll most likely ask to speak to a manager.

Cyndi

Donald is #1
06-09-2009, 10:13 PM
I would of done the same thing for this September trip and I would have made my own ADR's but I thought hey, I'm staying Concierge, why not let them do the work for me. I guess I will learn at Le Cellier when I present the TIW card and they deny it. I'll then try the DVC card and if that is denied, I'll most likely ask to speak to a manager.

Cyndi

I'll be very interested to hear how your September trip goes. My next trip where I will be at the parks & eating on site isn't until December when I had intended to buy a new TIW card to cover that trip and my planned '10 trip.

Sammie
06-09-2009, 10:21 PM
I would of done the same thing for this September trip and I would have made my own ADR's but I thought hey, I'm staying Concierge, why not let them do the work for me. I guess I will learn at Le Cellier when I present the TIW card and they deny it. I'll then try the DVC card and if that is denied, I'll most likely ask to speak to a manager.

Cyndi

Does DVC get a discount at LeCellier?

I am sure with all things Disney it will be a mess at first, then either they will work it out or give it up completely. :thumbsup2

Sammie
06-09-2009, 10:25 PM
That's because DVC is HIGHLY profitable for them at your initial purchase. Its a LOT of money in their pockets right now - and the commitment for you to continue to come - albeit with a far lower margin - for the long term future. To a big company, a lot of money today and a small amount committed in the future is a way better deal than a moderate amount of money each year that is uncertain.

But once they have you, they've made many of the dollars they are going to make off you. And then, how interested are they really in keeping you delighted? Content, sure, delighted - they'll save that for people paying $500 a night at the Yacht Club.

Sadly Crisi, I think you are correct. As long as sales is where they want it, I am not sure they are concerned about less than pleased exisiting members, they listen but do they really make any changes that only benefit the members.

gkrykewy
06-09-2009, 10:34 PM
I would of done the same thing for this September trip and I would have made my own ADR's but I thought hey, I'm staying Concierge, why not let them do the work for me. I guess I will learn at Le Cellier when I present the TIW card and they deny it. I'll then try the DVC card and if that is denied, I'll most likely ask to speak to a manager.

Cyndi

There is zero chance that they will deny your TIW card in the restaurant.

pilferk
06-10-2009, 09:14 AM
There's not a knowledgeable/experienced large-project corporate programmer in the world who would make a statement like that without a thorough review of the business requirements. The fact that he would say that tells you he's the last person Disney should hire.

I was speaking in theory of the proposed changes, not in how they necessarily fit into Disney's business model. There's a vast difference between the two.

Saying something is easy to do (and what has been outlined here WOULD be easy to do, strictly from a programming standpoint) doesn't mean it's the best thing to do within the confines of the business requirements. But given the two scenarios offered by the poster I was responding to....it's certainly not a question of TECHNICAL "ease" in implementing one or the other, which is what they supposed. It could be some OTHER reason...that's certainly the case. It might not be the BEST option...that's also certainly the case. But I highly doubt it would be the technical limitation or difficulty that would exclude it from consideration.

And, FYI, I resemble some of your remarks. I've worked in the industry for going on 15 years, in a corporate environment, on large projects. And while I obviously don't know DISNEY'S systems, I feel confident enough in my experience with similar things to make the assertions I did. Now, it's certainly POSSIBLE that Disney's systems are designed so incredibly poorly, or are so rats nest infested with previous poor code, or that their programmers are so incompetent as to make those modifications more difficult. My supposition is that would not be the case. The worst you can accuse me of, in this case, is being an optimist in that respect.

Brian Noble
06-10-2009, 09:46 AM
Sammie: I would be very very surprised if the TIW was not honored even if it was not coded in the reservation---as I said, it would violate the "never say no" principle, and that's pretty deeply ingrained in the corporate culture. The only way I could imagine it is if Disney puts it in the published materials, and even then, it would be phased in over a few months until word got out.

Even if it is "official policy" not to accept it, I'm guessing the cast members on the ground will still do it to make their own lives simpler unless and until it rises to a terminable offense (much as some of the DDP shenanigans have.)

Instead, I suspect that the "enforcement" will depend on strong words and peoples' inclination to follow directions. But, I've been wrong before.

gkrykewy
06-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Sammie: I would be very very surprised if the TIW was not honored even if it was not coded in the reservation---as I said, it would violate the "never say no" principle, and that's pretty deeply ingrained in the corporate culture. The only way I could imagine it is if Disney puts it in the published materials, and even then, it would be phased in over a few months until word got out.

Even if it is "official policy" not to accept it, I'm guessing the cast members on the ground will still do it to make their own lives simpler unless and until it rises to a terminable offense (much as some of the DDP shenanigans have.)

Instead, I suspect that the "enforcement" will depend on strong words and peoples' inclination to follow directions. But, I've been wrong before.

I can't even imagine that it would be actual policy at any level to restrict TIW in the restaurants. There are lots of locals who use TIW for walkups, so ADRs aren't even an issue. Really, that's an absurd thought.

crisi
06-10-2009, 10:55 AM
Sadly Crisi, I think you are correct. As long as sales is where they want it, I am not sure they are concerned about less than pleased exisiting members, they listen but do they really make any changes that only benefit the members.

I don't even think its a "sadly" - but I tend to be pragmatic about these things.

Brian Noble
06-10-2009, 11:07 AM
I can't even imagine that it would be actual policy at any level to restrict TIW in the restaurants. There are lots of locals who use TIW for walkups, so ADRs aren't even an issue. Really, that's an absurd thought.

It's not that absurd, for reasons that have already been discussed. If Sammie is right, the restrictions are per-restaurant. The restaurants at which one could walk up are presumably not the ones that would feel the need to impose this restriction, because they can't replace discount guests with full-freight guests.

But, Disney being Disney, they have a hard time actually pulling the trigger on things that tick guests off. That doesn't mean they never do it. They've been pretty firm about not sharing DDP meals with extra people not on your pacakge. You can have more people at the table than on the package, but generally, you can't use DDP entitlements to pay for more than the number of people on the package in a single transaction.

gkrykewy
06-10-2009, 12:27 PM
It's not that absurd, for reasons that have already been discussed. If Sammie is right, the restrictions are per-restaurant. The restaurants at which one could walk up are presumably not the ones that would feel the need to impose this restriction, because they can't replace discount guests with full-freight guests.

But, Disney being Disney, they have a hard time actually pulling the trigger on things that tick guests off. That doesn't mean they never do it. They've been pretty firm about not sharing DDP meals with extra people not on your pacakge. You can have more people at the table than on the package, but generally, you can't use DDP entitlements to pay for more than the number of people on the package in a single transaction.

I disagree. It is patently absurd. They're not going to change the TIW rules that dramatically on-the-fly. Every restaurant is a walk-up restaurant for some seasons and times of day.

If that happens to anyone, I will eat my DDE/TIW card and post photos.

Brian Noble
06-10-2009, 01:00 PM
Perhaps. But, absurd is in the eye of the beholder, and it's always important to remember that Mickey's interests are not necessarily in alignment with ours.

However, I agree with you that it won't actually happen---where we disagree is that I believe it is possible. If it does, I'll be almost as surprised as you would be. I let my TIW expire, though, so I can't join you for dinner. ;)

Every restaurant is a walk-up restaurant for some seasons and times of day.
Sure, but again Sammie reports (suggests?) that the restuarants may be able to vary based on season, etc. If you go as far as tiering the tables in the reservation matrix, it's not hard at all to make that time/day dependent.

Tara
06-10-2009, 01:09 PM
Sure, but again Sammie reports (suggests?) that the restuarants may be able to vary based on season, etc. If you go as far as tiering the tables in the reservation matrix, it's not hard at all to make that time/day dependent.

This is what I'm thinking. Funny that this is loosely linked to the new reservations system but didn't come up until free dining started. It makes me wonder if it's a tiered scheme for free dining and possibly other busy times only?

JimMIA
06-10-2009, 06:22 PM
This is what I'm thinking. Funny that this is loosely linked to the new reservations system but didn't come up until free dining started. It makes me wonder if it's a tiered scheme for free dining and possibly other busy times only?Only time will tell, I guess.

One thing about Free Dining...if they make any adjustments, they may wait until after Free Dining is over. I don't think they want thousands of free dining folks running around complaining about Disney changing the rules in the middle of the game on them. Don't forget, most of these folks pre-pay for their packages quite a while before their ADR window opens.

A few years ago when they started to tighten up on some of the DDP abuses, they came up with plans, but didn't implement them until after Free DDP. They actually did a CM-based tightening in October and then started the computer based accounting January 1st. I would not be surprised to see a similar strategy with this change...whatever it is.

DisneyWalker44
06-10-2009, 07:35 PM
And, FYI, I resemble some of your remarks. I've worked in the industry for going on 15 years, in a corporate environment, on large projects. If I came to you at work and told you I wanted you to make changes to one or more systems - it's unclear how many are involved). I don't know how big the systems are, don't know what platform they are written in. Don't know how many users there are or how they interface with the system(s). I don't know either the peek, or sustained volume of transaction. Don't know what upstream systems systems feed these, nor what downstream systems need to be fed. Don't know what kind of information must be captured and tracked. Don't know what testing environments are used, what standards the company requires for change. No idea of the resources or budget available either.

Would you say such changes are

- Easy?
- Hard?
- Impossible to say without more information?

How would you feel if you boss, not knowing all the things outlined above, promised that such a project would be easy and that you'd take care of it with no problem?

Sammie
06-10-2009, 09:23 PM
Sammie: I would be very very surprised if the TIW was not honored even if it was not coded in the reservation---as I said, it would violate the "never say no" principle, and that's pretty deeply ingrained in the corporate culture. The only way I could imagine it is if Disney puts it in the published materials, and even then, it would be phased in over a few months until word got out.

Even if it is "official policy" not to accept it, I'm guessing the cast members on the ground will still do it to make their own lives simpler unless and until it rises to a terminable offense (much as some of the DDP shenanigans have.)

Instead, I suspect that the "enforcement" will depend on strong words and peoples' inclination to follow directions. But, I've been wrong before.

I would tend to agree. As always Disney throws these changes out there and then they let the problems arise and go from there. I seriously doubt as you say they will stop anyone at this time from using their TIW discount at the table.

I wish I could clarify this a little more but really as with all things Disney the story on this change, is different depending on whether you are talking to Food and Beverage or Reservations.

Right now those departments seem to be in contradiction to each other and of course IT is still tweaking it, I was told it was a major undertaking, so that could mean it will be months before it real change is noticed.

And yes; as of today's conversations' I tend to agree that enforcement will be more in the writing and less in the actual doing.

d-r
06-10-2009, 10:14 PM
fwiw, a loved one that works at drc told me today that this isn't true.

I don't know. There may be more to a la carte than she knows right now, who knows.


But I will tell you this for sure. They are not going to turn down a tiw or an ap discount or dvc discount or a ddp credit for that matter at any disney restaurant if it isn't coded on your reservation, that just isn't going to happen.

brookelizabeth
06-11-2009, 12:05 AM
Good letter, Brooke.

Thank you...I still haven't heard back from them yet, but will report back with what they say.


There's not a knowledgeable/experienced large-project corporate programmer in the world who would make a statement like that without a thorough review of the business requirements. The fact that he would say that tells you he's the last person Disney should hire.

Whoa...settle. Pilferk is a buddy of mine from another thread. I know he's a bit of a computer geek (as am I, and assuming you are too). It was a half joke.



If that happens to anyone, I will eat my DDE/TIW card and post photos.

:rotfl: Love it.

pilferk
06-11-2009, 08:24 AM
If I came to you at work and told you I wanted you to make changes to one or more systems - it's unclear how many are involved). I don't know how big the systems are, don't know what platform they are written in. Don't know how many users there are or how they interface with the system(s). I don't know either the peek, or sustained volume of transaction. Don't know what upstream systems systems feed these, nor what downstream systems need to be fed. Don't know what kind of information must be captured and tracked. Don't know what testing environments are used, what standards the company requires for change. No idea of the resources or budget available either.

Would you say such changes are

- Easy?
- Hard?
- Impossible to say without more information?

How would you feel if you boss, not knowing all the things outlined above, promised that such a project would be easy and that you'd take care of it with no problem?

So you mean (minus the budget question...EVERYONE knows what their budget is) a typical Tuesday? You just described the majority of my conversations with system users (who, by and large, are NOT technically oriented employees) over the past 8 years (since I was in any position to do anything about it).

I would say exactly what I said: Theoretically, the changes you're asking for are TECHNICALLY easy. The programming, itself, is very simple in most environments....and I think we can assume that Disney is using something like Oracle or SQL as their back end and not something off the wall like Revelation (in which, FYI, it would STILL be easy to do). I doubt the TECHNICAL piece (meaning the actual design, coding, and database mods) would be the stumbling block. The SYSTEMS piece might...which I said in my follow up post and is what I tell my users, right before I tell them "Lets book a meeting with everyone involved".

So, now lets look at what we're dealing with to see if the changes make the most sense to implement, based on some of the factors you mention. If there are systems issues, if the system, as a whole, is not designed well, or is overburdened, or the programmers/admins/dba's are incompetent, or a whole host of other problems exist, then changes may not work. If there are operational issues (something I find far more frequently...thinks like budget issues) that prevent the changes from making sense, then the changes may not work. But then, ANY changes in that type of environment are going to be problematic, complex, and time consuming....so when you're talking "easy" you're talking "relative" ease. That doesn't mean the concept being proposed is complex....it means the environment might be. You might suspect that's the case. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, since we're not sitting in a design meeting, we're just postulating on a Disney forum. Again, the worst you can say here is that I'm being an optimist.

And I've personally implemented this type of thing in similar "tracking" type systems before, where we needed tiered viewing on certain items. What I would consider a pretty large system, running 24/7. We're talking a throughput/turnover of something akin to 10's of thousands of individual items per day, upwards of 100k DB transactions, minimum...items into service, out of service, and back in, with the added complexity of kit building thrown in....with users on both sides interfacing (the "consumer" of the items and the people rotating them through service) with the system. Predictive algos to determine when items should be ready to go back to service. Upstream and downstream traffic with our other corporate systems, one of which is primary in determining which items are needed and one of which ultimately bills for actual item use. It wasn't dealing with tables in multiple restaurants, but I imagine the ultimate outcome of the system is somewhat similar. The biggest difference is that items are booked only a week in advance...not 90 or 180 days...and our items are bar-coded or RF-tagged. Oh, and the tier system isn't to be exclusionary, but rather inclusive, to make sure all possible "alternative" items are available to the "consumer", but those that have no need of "alternatives", based on the work the items will be used for, don't have to wade through them.

Anecdotally: The hardest (and longest) part of the implementation process for the above "tier system" addition? User training. Go figure.

And, FYI, my "boss" (on the technical end), at this point? He'd likely not involve himself directly in that kind of system design/detail work. At least he hasn't, so far. He's way too "big picture" on the food chain...so he'd have me in any meeting on this type of thing concerning "my" systems (or anything new he wanted to throw on my plate).

If I WAS in that position, and it DID happen to me? I'd feel just like every Jr. Programmer sitting in a cube in corporate America does when it happens to them. I'd curse his name and figure out a way to make it happen. Luckily, I'm not there anymore...either in terms of experience or in the way our company operates.

Anyway, I think I've "geeked up" the forum enough, at this point....suffice to say, I stand by my original point, with the clarifications and qualifications I've added.

gkrykewy
06-11-2009, 08:46 AM
I would say exactly what I said

Now why did you have to go and do that? Now we're going to get an even longer thread derail from Programmer McBitterton.

pilferk
06-11-2009, 08:58 AM
Now why did you have to go and do that? Now we're going to get an even longer thread derail from Programmer McBitterton.

Ummmm....because it's the truth. :cool1: In fact, it's a pretty common happening in our offices: The "theoretically easy, lets see what we find when we get our hands a little dirtier" conversation. I'd say about 1/3 of the time, it's what launches a project.

Anyway, I super promise I'm done geeking up the thread. If he wants to comment,I'll leave it alone, next time. ;)

Snookies
06-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I'll file the following in the "just a random idea" folder, but...

Assuming that there is or will be a limitation on ADRs available for those booking with discount programs like TIW, AP, and DVC, do you think this could be used eventually to drive sales of the DDP? For the sake of discussion, I'm going to ignore Free Dining because I've always thought of that program as nothing more than a sales driver in what would otherwise be a very slow period.

For example, I've often used TIW, AP, and DVC discounts but I've never been interested in DDP because we do a substantial number of things off property and have always wanted the flexibility to dine off-property when doing those things. Given much of the information on this thread, I wonder if we may see an attempt at some point to limit the availability of dining reservations booked with a discount in favor of full retail and DDP guests with the objective of more heavily marketing the dining plan. After all, as many have pointed out, the objective of the DDP is not to offer a benefit to guests but rather to get guests to commit every waking moment while in Orlando to the Mouse while soaking up excess capacity and ending discount programs in the process. Free dining is actually an example of the latter since you could also increase sales in September by offering heavily discounted hotel rooms, but I suspect their revenue models suggest higher revenue and margins by offering a package with free transportation to and from WDW, full rack rate hotel rooms, and a free DDP.

Silver Queen
06-11-2009, 01:22 PM
We are DVC members with the TiW card and have trips planned for August and October. I had no problem making our August ADRs which included several signature restaurants. I honestly can't remember what they may have asked me about DVC membership or discount cards when I made the reservations. (We make our ADRs through the WDW-DINE number, not member services.) I'm hoping that someone who travels down in the next month hour so will report back soon about the TiW situation. I agree with the previous poster who said that they couldn't imagine having a TiW card declined, but I'd rest easier if I knew that I wasn't going to have a hassle for my August trip, or worse yet, have to cancel my ADRs because my TiW won't be accepted. I hope this thread stays alive to keep us all updated.

ead79
06-11-2009, 02:48 PM
I'll file the following in the "just a random idea" folder, but...

Assuming that there is or will be a limitation on ADRs available for those booking with discount programs like TIW, AP, and DVC, do you think this could be used eventually to drive sales of the DDP? For the sake of discussion, I'm going to ignore Free Dining because I've always thought of that program as nothing more than a sales driver in what would otherwise be a very slow period.

For example, I've often used TIW, AP, and DVC discounts but I've never been interested in DDP because we do a substantial number of things off property and have always wanted the flexibility to dine off-property when doing those things. Given much of the information on this thread, I wonder if we may see an attempt at some point to limit the availability of dining reservations booked with a discount in favor of full retail and DDP guests with the objective of more heavily marketing the dining plan. After all, as many have pointed out, the objective of the DDP is not to offer a benefit to guests but rather to get guests to commit every waking moment while in Orlando to the Mouse while soaking up excess capacity and ending discount programs in the process. Free dining is actually an example of the latter since you could also increase sales in September by offering heavily discounted hotel rooms, but I suspect their revenue models suggest higher revenue and margins by offering a package with free transportation to and from WDW, full rack rate hotel rooms, and a free DDP.

In my opinion you've definitely got an idea there. I do think that Disney wants people on the DDP. While that makes perfect sense from a financial perspective for Disney if it means you'll eat all your meals onsite, I am confused about limiting tables for TIW card holders. The reason this confuses me is because I would imagine that as a TIW card holder, I net Disney more money than a guest on the DDP. DH and I typically eat 2 table service meals per day on our trips, so buying the TIW card was a no-brainer for us. I'd estimate that we spend around $110 per day of our trip on our meals, and that's AFTER the TIW discount has been applied. For both of us to be on the DDP, it would be $80 per day, which is substantially less than the $110 estimate we spend daily on average. I'm sure we're not the only TIW card holders that spend more than a DDP guest on food. After all, folks who don't wouldn't buy the TIW card in the first place. So to me it seems like Disney might be shortsighted to limit tables for TIW card holders.

Silver Queen
06-11-2009, 07:14 PM
Another perspective is that as a TiW card holder we are now booking signature restaurants that we wouldn't usually go to and ordering a bottle of wine instead of a glass. We are actually spending more money because of the discount.

CarolAnnC
06-11-2009, 08:19 PM
This thread has roamed off topic, and is truly more suitable to our Restaurant Board. Please visit there to continue discussion on the ADR policies. Thank you.