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jjk1107
06-02-2009, 08:52 AM
Hello,

I just wanted to provide everyone with a few warnings about the THV. While the rooms are beautiful, they have a few things that you should be prepared with if staying.

The first and biggest is that there are no locks on any of the doors to the bedrooms or the bathrooms. Please make sure people know to not open a closed door or they may be surprised.

The other item is that because you are on swamp land, the mosquitos are horrific, please bring bug spray.

If staying during the summer, the room is extremely hot. The air conditioner will not run while you are in the parks or sleeping due to the sensor.

Also, you are only allowed one car per villa.

If you come prepared for this, you will enjoy your visit. The room is very beautiful and the area is very quiet.

Overall, I would stay again, just not in the summer time due to the heat.

JoQuo711
06-02-2009, 08:58 AM
Hello,
If staying during the summer, the room is extremely hot. The air conditioner will not run while you are in the parks or sleeping due to the sensor.


If I'm not mistaken, this is true of all new construction at Disney? They may even be retrofitting some of the old rooms with the sensors, we were at a 2BR in SSR last month (at Carousel), and it definitely had those sensors. I don't think it turned the AC off completely, but it always reset to about 74 degrees even though we had the thermostat set to around 70 when we left. I assume BLT will be the same since it's new also.

What's up with no locks on the bathrooms though? That sounds... unusual :confused:

florep1
06-02-2009, 09:02 AM
The no locks part sounds like someone forgot to do a walk through before releasing the rooms for guests. Isn't that why they have CMS stay in these rooms prior to actual hotel guests?
The mosquito probleis not surprising, neither is the AC. Hopefully someone will figure out a bypass like they did with the other resorts.
The 1 car problem, I don't understand. How many cars have room for 8-9 people (what's allowed in a THV). How many cars are allowed for 2BR and 3BR villas?

OrlandoMike
06-02-2009, 09:26 AM
I had the opportunity to stay in one and the AC shut off every time I ran outside to the car to get something. It did seem to run at night, so maybe it detects your body heat? :confused3

The locks on doors didn't bother me, if a door is closed, don't open it!

Now the toaster right under the paper towel dispenser? That set off a huge safety issue for me!

As for the mosquitoes, you have to understand, we got about 2 feet of rain in the past two weeks, its just something that you are gonna have to deal with till Disney gets it under control.

JimMIA
06-02-2009, 09:30 AM
Also, you are only allowed one car per villa. Is there not room to park more than one car at your villa (but an overflow area to park extra vehicles)?

Or are they actually limiting you to ONE vehicle, period. For example, by only giving one parking pass?

Either way, it sounds like a nightmare in the making. One vehicle won't work for most groups of 8-9. In addition, no matter what the rules say, folks are going to park multiple vehicles even if it takes their neighbor's parking place. Some things never change, unfortunately. :rolleyes:

And we all know how the Mouse is about actually enforcing their rules! :rotfl2:

JimMIA
06-02-2009, 09:34 AM
Now the toaster right under the paper towel dispenser? That set off a huge safety issue for me!Nope.

According to Jim Lewis, it is an "enhancement to the ownership experience in response to owner feedback."

The purpose is actually to incorporate a "unique and exciting wildfire experience" into your stay...which is entirely consistent with the woodland theme of THV.

jade1
06-02-2009, 09:38 AM
If I'm not mistaken, this is true of all new construction at Disney? They may even be retrofitting some of the old rooms with the sensors, we were at a 2BR in SSR last month (at Carousel), and it definitely had those sensors. I don't think it turned the AC off completely, but it always reset to about 74 degrees even though we had the thermostat set to around 70 when we left. I assume BLT will be the same since it's new also.
:confused:

Yea I think they are all getting this. I think the resorts with halls (like BWV) that are kept at about 42 degrees for some reason, tend to help a little. The smaller the stand alone structure (like a car), the faster it will heat back up.

BCV513
06-02-2009, 10:11 AM
The air conditioning thing is all over now. Buy a balloon and leave it bouncing around the room. The sensor will think there's a person there.

Disney_Villain
06-02-2009, 10:32 AM
Here's a tip about overriding the air conditioning sensors, posted several times on DIS:

"On the thermostat push the power button and the down arrow (that adjusts the temp) at the exact same time. If you do this correctly there will be the letters "bp" where the temp numbers usually are. You are now bypassing the sensors in the room. You can then set the temp to whatever you want and it keeps the room that cold whether you are in it or not. The maintenance man said that you might have to do this once a day as the thermostat tends to go back to sensor mode after 24 hours. We found that it stayed on bypass for a couple of days at a time. It was great to come back to a cold room or not wake up in the middle of the night in a sweat again. The CM that did this for us said it was not a problem doing this as they do it for people all the time. Guess they get a lot of complaints."

kathrna
06-02-2009, 10:33 AM
The air conditioning thing is all over now. Buy a balloon and leave it bouncing around the room. The sensor will think there's a person there.

What a brilliant idea!! :banana:

GuySmiley
06-02-2009, 10:34 AM
Nope.

According to Jim Lewis, it is an "enhancement to the ownership experience in response to owner feedback."

The purpose is actually to incorporate a "unique and exciting wildfire experience" into your stay...which is entirely consistent with the woodland theme of THV.

:rotfl: Nice.

BlakeNJ
06-02-2009, 10:43 AM
The air conditioning thing is all over now. Buy a balloon and leave it bouncing around the room. The sensor will think there's a person there.


Nice idea! Now I have a reason for the kids to get the balloons they always ask for! No reason to say "no" anymore!!

5forDiz
06-02-2009, 10:58 AM
Nope.

According to Jim Lewis, it is an "enhancement to the ownership experience in response to owner feedback."

The purpose is actually to incorporate a "unique and exciting wildfire experience" into your stay...which is entirely consistent with the woodland theme of THV.


:rotfl2: OMG too funny !!! :lmao:

PurpleTurtle
06-02-2009, 11:13 AM
Here's a tip about overriding the air conditioning sensors, posted several times on DIS:

...

Thank you! This is great to know. We actually keep it cooler in our house at night b/c we can't sleep in the heat. Daytime we're fine with it 80 or so. Last thing I want to do is go on vacation and be stuck sweating all night long.

Disney_Villain
06-02-2009, 11:24 AM
Nice idea! Now I have a reason for the kids to get the balloons they always ask for! No reason to say "no" anymore!!

One problem: A balloon can eventually get stuck in a corner of the room and stop moving. When that happens, the A/C will shut off.

White_Sox_Fan
06-02-2009, 11:29 AM
I would assume the reason for allowing only one car is a lack of parking at the units themselves. Perhaps they would allow you to park an additional car over by Grandstand or The Springs.

Anal Annie
06-02-2009, 11:41 AM
Here's a tip about overriding the air conditioning sensors, posted several times on DIS:

"On the thermostat push the power button and the down arrow (that adjusts the temp) at the exact same time. If you do this correctly there will be the letters "bp" where the temp numbers usually are. You are now bypassing the sensors in the room. You can then set the temp to whatever you want and it keeps the room that cold whether you are in it or not. The maintenance man said that you might have to do this once a day as the thermostat tends to go back to sensor mode after 24 hours. We found that it stayed on bypass for a couple of days at a time. It was great to come back to a cold room or not wake up in the middle of the night in a sweat again. The CM that did this for us said it was not a problem doing this as they do it for people all the time. Guess they get a lot of complaints."

:thumbsup2 Awesome!! Thanks! I was wondering what was up with the thermostat in our studio at SSR last weekend!! I'm another one who likes it a bit cooler when I'm sleeping. I kept setting it down to like 71 or 72 before we went to bed & then I would wake up feeling all stuffy like no air was moving & it would be back on 74!!! I'll forget between now & when we go again in August so I am printing this out to take with us!! THANKS!! :thumbsup2

DVC Mike
06-02-2009, 11:47 AM
The other item is that because you are on swamp land, the mosquitos are horrific, please bring bug spray.


I was wondering if that was going to be a problem.

evedein
06-02-2009, 11:57 AM
My big fear is snakes. I've seen them before at WDW near the water. If you're in a tree house in the woods, near the water, won't there be snakes nearby? They really scare me. Has anyone seen any near their tree house?

tea pot
06-02-2009, 12:00 PM
The air conditioning thing is all over now. Buy a balloon and leave it bouncing around the room. The sensor will think there's a person there.

Here's a tip about overriding the air conditioning sensors, posted several times on DIS:

"On the thermostat push the power button and the down arrow (that adjusts the temp) at the exact same time. If you do this correctly there will be the letters "bp" where the temp numbers usually are. You are now bypassing the sensors in the room. You can then set the temp to whatever you want and it keeps the room that cold whether you are in it or not. The maintenance man said that you might have to do this once a day as the thermostat tends to go back to sensor mode after 24 hours. We found that it stayed on bypass for a couple of days at a time. It was great to come back to a cold room or not wake up in the middle of the night in a sweat again. The CM that did this for us said it was not a problem doing this as they do it for people all the time. Guess they get a lot of complaints."


This is what I love about the DIS. Two Great Solutions... All Disney problems solved and passed on.

Thanks for the heads up Anal AnnieWe will be staying there in Nov and will have 2 cars for 6 adults, 1 lives in Tampa and we will have a rental... I'll be watching the boards also looking for report on the transportation...

Deb & Bill
06-02-2009, 01:04 PM
If you have more than one vehicle to park, they ask that you park it over by the Grandstand and take the bus back to the THV.

As for snakes. They are all over Disney. We saw a big black snake over by the Grandstand. Must have been two-three feet long.

jjk1107
06-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Hi everyone,

You can park all extra vehicles in the Grandstand, so this was not the actual problem that we had. The problem about the one car was actually other guests having more than one car and not obeying the rules themselves. This left one person by us having to park in a nonparking spot. Also, cast members with service vehicles were parking in them which also took up spots for actual guests. Overall, it did not affect us at all, but just wanted to provide everyone on here with a heads up sol that you were not surprised when you got there.

The air conditioner was a new type, so I am not sure that the sensor override that works for SSR will work on these. The balloon idea is good.

What I was told about for the locks is that they were build to use a lock that you insert a pin into it. When the CMs were staying there, some of them had issues with the pins and not being able to get out. To avoid the guests from having this issue, they took away all of the pins. At this time, they do not have plans to change the door handles to include actual locks and in Disney standard format, was told to fill out a comment card if we wanted locks installed. We just applied the rule though that if the door is closed, don't open it.

fers31
06-02-2009, 01:37 PM
Also, the AC trick does not always work. It worked for me 3 weeks ago at Vero Beach, but did not work at Kidani. There are threads dedicated to the AC problems. What a major annoyance. Nothing like coming back from the parks all hot and sweaty...and the AC isn't on in the room.

MinnieFan4ever
06-02-2009, 01:48 PM
My big fear is snakes. I've seen them before at WDW near the water. If you're in a tree house in the woods, near the water, won't there be snakes nearby? They really scare me. Has anyone seen any near their tree house?

Me too! Oh, and I feel like "Jason" is out in the woods waiting to attack.:scared1:

Debs Hill
06-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Any pics? What was your view like? Was it well lit at night to find your way back to your treehouse?!!! (SNAKES!!!)
Debsx:goodvibes

Ali and boyz
06-02-2009, 01:56 PM
think we will be having a re-think for next year. our son has a spinal injury which means he can't control his body heat (his body goes to the heat of the surrounding air) therefore for the ac not to come on is a big issue for him

like the idea of the 3rd bedroom but jjk1107 could you describe the master bathroom for me. our son needs a roll in shower and when I looked at our member book today i can't see any shower apart from the one over the bath :confused:

we also have 2 cars, one for the wheelchair and one for my dad who is 79 so dissappointed abut not having 2 spaces nearby.

wulfekamp
06-02-2009, 02:12 PM
I hate to say it but the A/C thing is just DUMB. DVC is suppose to be a deluxe hotel. Whats next pay toilets. I wonder what bean counter came up with that great idea. I bet it was the same one that bought those mattresses that were hard as a brick.

JimC
06-02-2009, 02:27 PM
My big fear is snakes. I've seen them before at WDW near the water. If you're in a tree house in the woods, near the water, won't there be snakes nearby? They really scare me. Has anyone seen any near their tree house?

I'm with you with regards to snakes. But this is Florida. Snakes and alligators are part of the natural habitat. We learn to co-exist. We had the wettest and possibly one of the warmest Mays on record. Unfortunately the worst of the heat was the first two weeks of May and the rain all came in the last two weeks. So mosquitoes are also in abundance right now.

rentayenta
06-02-2009, 02:33 PM
I think the Treehouses will suck to stay at so nobody should make a ressie especially for December 2010. ;)

Chernabog#1fan
06-02-2009, 02:55 PM
think we will be having a re-think for next year. our son has a spinal injury which means he can't control his body heat (his body goes to the heat of the surrounding air) therefore for the ac not to come on is a big issue for him

like the idea of the 3rd bedroom but jjk1107 could you describe the master bathroom for me. our son needs a roll in shower and when I looked at our member book today i can't see any shower apart from the one over the bath :confused:

we also have 2 cars, one for the wheelchair and one for my dad who is 79 so dissappointed abut not having 2 spaces nearby.
The master shower was interesting. It was a shower with the tub inside of it in the back. So there was a shower part only, but from my thoughts, it would be hard to get a wheelchair into it because the tub takes a portion.

They have I believe 3 dedicated wheelchair accessible rooms. I would think those would have a roll in shower.

We were right on the water, so the view was beuatiful. I did not see any snakes, but we thought for sure we would. We did see some very giant spiders though. We have some pics, but I will have to have my husband try to upload them.

Debs Hill
06-02-2009, 03:03 PM
Mosquitos, spiders and snakes!! Oh my!!!!!:scared1:
:upsidedow

Chellymouse
06-02-2009, 03:04 PM
Interesting thread. We were considering a THV for our "DH has lost his mind" trip next summer (Taking DMIL, DSIL and her DH and our DNiece and Dnephew) and now I'm not so sure. The bypass does work at SSR at CP because we were able to do it last summer. The jury is still out. Thanks for the post. It gives us something else to think about. The major reason we were considering was to make sure the little ones had some quiet sleeping, so we'll see.

Kiderak
06-02-2009, 03:14 PM
I think the Treehouses will suck to stay at so nobody should make a ressie especially for December 2010. ;)


I completely agree...I'll be protesting by not trying to get a December reservation there!

:rolleyes1

TreesyB
06-02-2009, 07:35 PM
Here's to hoping mosquitoes aren't a problem in January!

tecodis
06-02-2009, 07:55 PM
Now the toaster right under the paper towel dispenser? That set off a huge safety issue for me!



Ha! Just the oposite at Kidani - the toaster was near the sink and the coffee maker was beneath the paper towels. I switched them since I don't use the toaster and that made the coffee maker more cumbersome to use uner the cabinet.

Wonder if housekeeping put them back in their places?? I didn't think to.
:upsidedow

tecodis
06-02-2009, 08:04 PM
Yea I think they are all getting this. I think the resorts with halls (like BWV) that are kept at about 42 degrees for some reason, tend to help a little. The smaller the stand alone structure (like a car), the faster it will heat back up.

That explains my Kidani experience! I wasn't quite sure why it was cold when I went to bed but not during the night (without ever changing the thermostat). I didn't even think about this option! I kept thinking it wasn't working right - along with the two bathroom halogen light bulbs were were burnt out. Then again, maybe they were energy efficient and came on only when standing directly under them and wishing they were on OR perhaps the previous guests stole the bulbs as souvenirs (those pesky non-members).
:rotfl:

melk
06-02-2009, 08:10 PM
One problem: A balloon can eventually get stuck in a corner of the room and stop moving. When that happens, the A/C will shut off.


To solve that problem, does anyone remember a thread from long ago that suggested tying a hamster to the end of the balloon? :rotfl:

Doug7856
06-02-2009, 08:11 PM
I believe that the thermostat situation is a result of the "green hotel certification" that Disney is so proud of. Having hot/warm rooms is part of the cost of greening the resort. It is disappointing to hear that the new thermostats may not have the bypass option.

jboysen
06-02-2009, 09:02 PM
To solve that problem, does anyone remember a thread from long ago that suggested tying a hamster to the end of the balloon? :rotfl:

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

shellybaxter
06-02-2009, 09:18 PM
I noticed a PP spoke of having a son in a wheelchair. I was wondering how wheelchairs get into the treehouse villas. Is there a ramp - or a lift of some kind?

Sammie
06-02-2009, 09:37 PM
If you have more than one vehicle to park, they ask that you park it over by the Grandstand and take the bus back to the THV.


Just another example as I said in an earlier thread about DVC adding on units to exsiting resorts without providing the necessary infrastructure for those additional guests.

Another 500-600 guests at the Springs and Grandstands bus stops and the pool and now the parking; is going to make an impact. :sad2:

DisneyDreamers2007
06-03-2009, 12:39 AM
Me too! Oh, and I feel like "Jason" is out in the woods waiting to attack.:scared1:

Oh my! :rotfl2:

PinkTink63
06-03-2009, 02:08 AM
Hello,

I just wanted to provide everyone with a few warnings about the THV. While the rooms are beautiful, they have a few things that you should be prepared with if staying.

The first and biggest is that there are no locks on any of the doors to the bedrooms or the bathrooms. Please make sure people know to not open a closed door or they may be surprised.


:rotfl:I live in a house that was built in 1910 and there are no locks throughout the entire house except for the exterior doors! It has never been a problem! If the door is shut, it means that someone is probably in there. In that case, a simple knock will do!

disneynutz
06-03-2009, 03:51 AM
I had the opportunity to stay in one and the AC shut off every time I ran outside to the car to get something. It did seem to run at night, so maybe it detects your body heat? :confused3

The locks on doors didn't bother me, if a door is closed, don't open it!

Now the toaster right under the paper towel dispenser? That set off a huge safety issue for me!

As for the mosquitoes, you have to understand, we got about 2 feet of rain in the past two weeks, its just something that you are gonna have to deal with till Disney gets it under control.

Some AC systems also have a door sensor. If the door is opened, the system shuts off. That in combination with the motion sensors is the reason the AC shut off when you left the villa.

disneynutz
06-03-2009, 03:56 AM
I noticed a PP spoke of having a son in a wheelchair. I was wondering how wheelchairs get into the treehouse villas. Is there a ramp - or a lift of some kind?

Several villas share a ramp that allows easy HC access.

Beth
06-03-2009, 07:29 AM
As far as the parking situation..... If you've got two couples with two cars - can the 2nd car come in long enough to unload, then move back to the overflow lot?

.....I'm assuming/hoping the answer is "yes."

KirstenB
06-03-2009, 07:57 AM
Nope.

According to Jim Lewis, it is an "enhancement to the ownership experience in response to owner feedback."

The purpose is actually to incorporate a "unique and exciting wildfire experience" into your stay...which is entirely consistent with the woodland theme of THV.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

murcor
06-03-2009, 08:12 AM
Nope.

According to Jim Lewis, it is an "enhancement to the ownership experience in response to owner feedback."

The purpose is actually to incorporate a "unique and exciting wildfire experience" into your stay...which is entirely consistent with the woodland theme of THV.


:rotfl2::rotfl2:

murcor
06-03-2009, 08:16 AM
We never bring or rent a car, so for me the 1 vehicle per treehouse is not an issue

BUT

I do think that for a unit that can accomodate 9 people there should be an allowance for 2 vehicles :confused3 (two families etc)


I mean overall the 2nd vehicle will make up for all of us who dont have one :)

JimMIA
06-03-2009, 08:32 AM
In response to those bothered by "critters," I've said since the start that THV would probably not appeal to two types of vacationers -- those without cars, and people who really don't like being somewhat out in the wild because THV is in a heavily-wooded area.

Cars and Parking:
The cars/bus issue may not be as obvious at it first seemed. It may be that parking is more of a problem than bussing, and if so, I may have to reverse my earlier thinking about that aspect.

Disney can improve the busses, but we all KNOW how guests are going to respond to a one-car limit -- they're going to ignore it. And Disney will not enforce anything, so the burden will be borne by the guests who try to follow the rules.

I'd be willing to bet that DVC can't add more parking places because parking lot runoff affects the wetlands THV sits on. My guess is the final solution will be parking on the grass.

Critters:
Currently, there are probably a lot fewer critters around THV than there will be in a few months. Construction always disrupts animal habitat and they move away. Once things settle down, they will probably move back.

Realistically, the kinds of critters you are likely to see at THV are racoons, possums, rabbits, river otter, and deer. There will be a lot of smaller stuff, and slithering stuff, but you are not likely to encounter any of those except lizards and frogs. There will also be assorted bugs and bug-like creatures -- goes with the territory.

Most people will not really care much about the varied wildlife around THV. They'll enjoy deer, rabbits, otters, and racoons and they'll be grossed out by possums and palmetto bugs.

But there are a lot of folks who are sincerely phobic about creepy-crawlies. Those folks are honestly just looking for trouble if they stay at THV. It's just the wrong kind of resort for those folks.

tjkraz
06-03-2009, 08:48 AM
Another 500-600 guests at the Springs and Grandstands bus stops...

SSR plus the Treehouses is still far smaller than the likes of Jambo + Kidani, Caribbean Beach, any of the Value resorts and probably some of the combined loops like BWV/BWI/Dolphin/Swan. So I guess I don't get the big deal here. :confused3

...and the pool...

In terms of total resort swimming accommodations, SSR went from 4 pools and 828 Two Bedroom equivalent units to 5 pools and 888 units. That seems like positive growth to me. :thumbsup2

The feature pool may be a little undersized for the resort but I doubt the THVs will have a disastrous impact. The resort has only grown by 7%. Proportionately we're talking about the pool crowd going from...say...150 guests to 160 guests (7% increase) on a given afternoon.

...and now the parking; is going to make an impact. :sad2:

Due to the wetlands restrictions, it's my understanding that Disney was prohibited from paving any additional parking spaces. They had to make due with what was already in place. You could argue that asking guests to park additional vehicles in The Grandstand area is an inconvenience, but I hope most of us would agree it's not a deal-breaker.

Looking at overhead plans for the area, there are a few extra spaces here and there. But with spaces not being specifically assigned to each unit, the possibility exists for people to sort of block one-another from their ideal parking spot. For instance, if you have three spaces for a group of three villas, and someone staying across the road (at a villa with parking elsewhere) uses one of those three spaces, someone may be left looking elsewhere for a space.

Even if all 60 treehouses were occupied, not all guests would be driving. So even if some ignore the rules and park two vehicles, it is unlikely to be an issue the vast majority of the time. We'll be checking into a Treehouse in a few days and will have 7 people with just the one vehicle.

mamaprincess
06-03-2009, 08:49 AM
Dag nabbit!!! I want to stay in a THV but I hate bugs and critters!:headache: I'm scared of critters, even deer! I'm going to wait it out a year and see what the reports are and then see if I think I can handle it. Chances are I'll be all jumpy and nervous in anticipation of a critter running across my foot or something.

JimMIA
06-03-2009, 09:24 AM
Dag nabbit!!! I want to stay in a THV but I hate bugs and critters!:headache: I'm scared of critters, even deer! I'm going to wait it out a year and see what the reports are and then see if I think I can handle it. Chances are I'll be all jumpy and nervous in anticipation of a critter running across my foot or something.
Some people will laugh at you being afraid of deer, but deer injure more visitors in our National Parks every year than any other animal...except man, of course. A deer is much more likely to be a problem for you than an alligator or snake, but people fear 'gators and snakes much more.

I guess that proves we can look at all the statistics we want, these kinds of fears are not rational and it doesn't matter what the data shows. If someone is afraid of something, no pile of statistics is going to help them overcome that fear.

RweTHEREyet
06-03-2009, 10:41 AM
The air conditioning thing is all over now. Buy a balloon and leave it bouncing around the room. The sensor will think there's a person there.


I think that when BCV opened, it had been proven that this did not work. Afterall, once the air quits blowing the first time, what makes the balloon move around?

mom3sonstt
06-03-2009, 10:52 AM
I think that when BCV opened, it had been proven that this did not work. Afterall, once the air quits blowing the first time, what makes the balloon move around?

Aren't there ceiling fans? If you have a balloon in a room with a ceiling fan on low wouldn't that keep the balloon moving enough to "trick" the air conditioner? (never tried this trick - but will be at the Treehouses in 2 months - not looking forward to hot rooms in August!)

tjkraz
06-03-2009, 11:43 AM
Aren't there ceiling fans? If you have a balloon in a room with a ceiling fan on low wouldn't that keep the balloon moving enough to "trick" the air conditioner? (never tried this trick - but will be at the Treehouses in 2 months - not looking forward to hot rooms in August!)

That's what I was thinking.

Someone else mentioned the balloon getting stuck in the corner of the room. I would think that's preventable by tying the string to a chair or some other piece of furniture near the center of the room. Put the fan on high and the balloon should keep flopping around the room all day.

In general we've yet to have real problems with the thermostats. Our society seems pretty supportive of any "green" initiatives unveiled by Disney and other large companies. Reducing electrical power usage by not cooling empty rooms would seem to fall under that heading. Sometimes being environmentally conscious doesn't completely jive with personal comfort.

mom3sonstt
06-03-2009, 12:02 PM
I understand their reasoning behind having the thermostats this way - why pay to cool a room in the heat of the day when no one is in it. But here at home we have the programmable thermostats so we can have it set at different temps throughout the day - especially nice in the cold midwest winter to have the heat kick up before trudging off to take a shower in the dark winter mornings. And it's not that difficult to do - too bad they don't have programmable thermostats down there - then we could set the air to kick on again when we think we will be heading back and they would still have the benefit of it not running all day in an empty space.

Doug7856
06-03-2009, 12:08 PM
. . . Our society seems pretty supportive of any "green" initiatives unveiled by Disney and other large companies. Reducing electrical power usage by not cooling empty rooms would seem to fall under that heading. Sometimes being environmentally conscious doesn't completely jive with personal comfort.

Well said. Also, it will have a positive impact on our member fees to not cool empty rooms.

Overall, I'm impressed with the look and feel of the resort and can't wait for out Thanksgiving stay.

kid-at-heart
06-03-2009, 12:41 PM
In response to those bothered by "critters," I've said since the start that THV would probably not appeal to two types of vacationers -- those without cars, and people who really don't like being somewhat out in the wild because THV is in a heavily-wooded area.


Critters:
Currently, there are probably a lot fewer critters around THV than there will be in a few months. Construction always disrupts animal habitat and they move away. Once things settle down, they will probably move back.

Realistically, the kinds of critters you are likely to see at THV are racoons, possums, rabbits, river otter, and deer. There will be a lot of smaller stuff, and slithering stuff, but you are not likely to encounter any of those except lizards and frogs. There will also be assorted bugs and bug-like creatures -- goes with the territory.

Most people will not really care much about the varied wildlife around THV. They'll enjoy deer, rabbits, otters, and racoons and they'll be grossed out by possums and palmetto bugs.

But there are a lot of folks who are sincerely phobic about creepy-crawlies. Those folks are honestly just looking for trouble if they stay at THV. It's just the wrong kind of resort for those folks.


I like critters, all critters, as long as they stay outside. Do not want any Mickeys, other than this one ::MickeyMo in my villa though. Since we are folks who like to hang out in the wilderness I am sure TVC will appeal to us.

jpolak
06-03-2009, 01:08 PM
I hate to say it but the A/C thing is just DUMB. DVC is suppose to be a deluxe hotel. Whats next pay toilets.

:rotfl:

emckinnon
06-03-2009, 01:17 PM
Wow! Thanks for the info.

DebbieB
06-03-2009, 01:29 PM
I understand their reasoning behind having the thermostats this way - why pay to cool a room in the heat of the day when no one is in it. But here at home we have the programmable thermostats so we can have it set at different temps throughout the day - especially nice in the cold midwest winter to have the heat kick up before trudging off to take a shower in the dark winter mornings. And it's not that difficult to do - too bad they don't have programmable thermostats down there - then we could set the air to kick on again when we think we will be heading back and they would still have the benefit of it not running all day in an empty space.

This reminds me of a hotel I stayed at in India earlier this year. You had to put your key into a slot by the door when you entered the room in order for the room to have electric. When you left the room and took your key with you, the electric turned off. I assume the AC turned off too.

Inkmahm
06-03-2009, 01:37 PM
But there are a lot of folks who are sincerely phobic about creepy-crawlies. Those folks are honestly just looking for trouble if they stay at THV. It's just the wrong kind of resort for those folks.

:scared1: me, me, me!!! I considered staying there someday, but maybe not!

Inkmahm
06-03-2009, 01:39 PM
This reminds me of a hotel I stayed at in India earlier this year. You had to put your key into a slot by the door when you entered the room in order for the room to have electric. When you left the room and took your key with you, the electric turned off. I assume the AC turned off too.

Same thing last year when I visited Disneyland-Paris.

Dreamfinder2
06-03-2009, 02:32 PM
This reminds me of a hotel I stayed at in India earlier this year. You had to put your key into a slot by the door when you entered the room in order for the room to have electric. When you left the room and took your key with you, the electric turned off. I assume the AC turned off too.

Same thing in Israel ... I couldn't figure out what the heck to do for the longest time.

I guess they could post signs encouraging us to turn the thermostats up to avoid wasting A/C, but, y'know, my faith in the inherent goodness of man does have its limits. So the green police have to intervene *sigh.*

We're a camping family in addition to DVCers, so we're used to varmits. But I can see that someone who loves, say, Boardwalk for its elegance might struggle with sharing space with spiders and snakes. It IS reclaimed swampland, and part of the charm I see with the treehouses is that it gets you close to the "real Florida." That might not be for everyone. But the cool thing is you've got the treehouses and BLV opening within months of each other - talk about contrasts, and something for everyone!

I'm listening to the podcast review of the treehouses as I type. Kevin and Co. are a little less than enthralled. :rolleyes1

anna08
06-03-2009, 04:11 PM
The other item is that because you are on swamp land

Hi everyone! We're presently at SSR and DH who is a runner ran through the TH noted it also smells like a swamp there...and although it's been hot, he doesn't think it was his own odor :)

About the AC, we have found 74 degrees quite comfortable compared to the outside temp during the day. I am, however, pre-menopausal and can survive still at normal temperatures. I do like the air cooler to sleep but have not woken up warm yet. We did find it one time on 77, but i think that we can blame on the designer who put the thermostat where a curious 2yo can reach...

dvcbnd
06-03-2009, 08:38 PM
Does anyone know the brand/manufacturer of the T/Stat's? Also check this link out below, it talks about the different devices that hotels use to sense occupancy of the room, even ones that are disguised as something else.

http://www.peoplesgasdelivery.com/business/DisplayESource.aspx?type=PA&page=PA_63

Deb & Bill
06-03-2009, 08:48 PM
We were at Typhoon Lagoon today having fun. Bill & Will saw what appeared to be a water moccasin in the lazy river. Another guest found a rake or some other item along the bank, fished the snake out of the water and threw it up on the bank into the undergrowth. Lucky I didn't see it. You would have heard me all the way back to Louisiana.

Saratoga Souris
06-03-2009, 08:51 PM
It seems to make sense that THV would attempt to be "GREEN"...

The thermostats are in line with "green" thinking.

I can't wait to stay in the THV (Late August) and I look forward to seeing any wildlife that is in the area. I chose THV because of the natural habitat. I am not a fan of some of the very "sanitized" looking DVC properites at WDW.....

That's why they have so many different themes...... different tastes.

ACDSNY
06-03-2009, 09:17 PM
We were at Typhoon Lagoon today having fun. Bill & Will saw what appeared to be a water moccasin in the lazy river. Another guest found a rake or some other item along the bank, fished the snake out of the water and threw it up on the bank into the undergrowth. Lucky I didn't see it. You would have heard me all the way back to Louisiana.

You could have heard me clear back to California if I would have run across a snake in the lazy river.:laughing:

spiceycat
06-03-2009, 10:37 PM
disney is just getting another problem - mold and mildew like hot, wet places.

florida is wet (okay when not in drought) and it is definitely hot,

with all the work they had to do with the Polyn - unless they are putting dehumifer in all the new units - doing away with the air conditioning is not a great plan.

now dehumifer work nicely had one for mother because she refused to run the air conditioning in certain rooms. but before then - big mold problem.


that say if take power to work these things - so saving money - maybe not. although you can save water with a dehumifier.

Silly Little Pixie
06-03-2009, 10:40 PM
We absolutely loved the original THV!! So I look forward to staying in the new incarnation. They look gorgeous, and provide a neat DVC experience. IIRC, parking was an issue then as well. We enjoyed seeing critters. I would imagine that for some folks the wildlife would be more stressful than enjoyable. When we stayed it was May...and HOT... I remember the mosquitoes.

The "feature" pool looks like it was the same lousy rectangle it was back then! When I stay there I sure I'll hop over to another DVC or to the main SSR pool. It reminded me of an apartment pool!

Just the same...I think they look great, and I'd like to stay there.

randhsdad
06-03-2009, 11:50 PM
Like that idea!

bigsmooth
06-03-2009, 11:51 PM
Same thing last year when I visited Disneyland-Paris.

I've seen the key card for the electric/AC just about everywhere outside of North America. Not consistently everywhere, but in most places I've seen in Asia and Europe. This seems like a more usable solution than the motion sensors. You leave the room, you take your key out of the slot and the A/C turns off (or in some cases sets higher). You come back, key in the slot, and the A/C (and other electrical) comes back.

I've always wondered why US/Canadian hotels have not gone this route. The motion sensor A/C units I've always thought to be pretty silly, especially in "Vacation in an oven" climates like Florida.

randhsdad
06-03-2009, 11:56 PM
disney is just getting another problem - mold and mildew like hot, wet places.

florida is wet (okay when not in drought) and it is definitely hot,

with all the work they had to do with the Polyn - unless they are putting dehumifer in all the new units - doing away with the air conditioning is not a great plan.

now dehumifer work nicely had one for mother because she refused to run the air conditioning in certain rooms. but before then - big mold problem.


that say if take power to work these things - so saving money - maybe not. although you can save water with a dehumifier.

:thumbsup2
You hit the nail on the head with that one. Mold and mildew will destroy the investment faster than having to pay for more electricity for AC units. a Dehumidifier is just an AC unit that puts the heat back into the room instead of outside were it belongs:rotfl:

Hopefully
06-04-2009, 07:42 AM
This reminds me of a hotel I stayed at in India earlier this year. You had to put your key into a slot by the door when you entered the room in order for the room to have electric. When you left the room and took your key with you, the electric turned off. I assume the AC turned off too.


I experienced the same thing in both Barcelona and the UK. When you took your key out of the slot to leave the room, the electricity was shut off. Also the air conditioner was on a timer with a maximum time of 8 hours. So even if I was in the room (over night) I could only run the air conditioner for 8 straight hours.
This was also a deluxe European hotel

TINKERIFIC
06-04-2009, 10:29 AM
Does anyone have a map of the THVs with the villa number. When making ressie I want to put in a room request for a specific villa.

I know, I know...they are not guaranteed

TnRobin
06-04-2009, 12:07 PM
My treehouse has been nice and cool when we get back from the parks. The only thing I have noticed turning on by motion sensor is the bathroom fans. Everytime you walk in the bathroom, the fans come on.

"Got Disney"
06-04-2009, 12:36 PM
Here's to hoping mosquitoes aren't a problem in January!

We live in San Diego....we have Mosquitoes but not very many. No humidity for us...very dry air. My 12 y.o is afraid of mosquitoes...go figure since we never hardly see any....hmmm maybe that's why he is afraid of them :goodvibes

I am from NJ and we have a beach home in Daytona. Buy we dont get there much and my brother lives in it. So Mosquitoes are familiar to me.

So as for the THV and staying there I would love everything but the mosquitoes.

How was it before with them with the last Tree houses???? Does anyone remember who stayed there???

GoldenOldie
06-04-2009, 01:24 PM
I'd be willing to bet that DVC can't add more parking places because parking lot runoff affects the wetlands THV sits on. My guess is the final solution will be parking on the grass.I don't think that will be a problem since there is no grass where the villas are. It is all wetlands --> i.e. swamp land. You have to head up to the golf course and The Grandstand to find grass.

BeccaG
06-04-2009, 01:24 PM
Some people will laugh at you being afraid of deer, but deer injure more visitors in our National Parks every year than any other animal...except man, of course. A deer is much more likely to be a problem for you than an alligator or snake, but people fear 'gators and snakes much more.

I guess that proves we can look at all the statistics we want, these kinds of fears are not rational and it doesn't matter what the data shows. If someone is afraid of something, no pile of statistics is going to help them overcome that fear.

Aren't most of the deer injuries though (and I would guess alligators and snakes too) from people not respecting the wildlife and trying to feed it etc.? And of course with deer, you have to factor in the car accidents. . .

BeccaG
06-04-2009, 01:28 PM
This reminds me of a hotel I stayed at in India earlier this year. You had to put your key into a slot by the door when you entered the room in order for the room to have electric. When you left the room and took your key with you, the electric turned off. I assume the AC turned off too.

Same in Vegas! I know many of you will probably hate me for this, but for the sake of the planet (and I am far from what you would classify as a tree-hugger) and our dues, I am OK with the thermostats being on motion sensors or require a key in a slot or something. In my experience, it does not take that long to cool down a 2 BR villa, so I am assuming with it being about the same SQ footage, it would not take too long to cool down a treehouse. . .now a Grand Villa may be a different story!! :)

Inkmahm
06-04-2009, 02:29 PM
Same in Vegas! I know many of you will probably hate me for this, but for the sake of the planet (and I am far from what you would classify as a tree-hugger) and our dues, I am OK with the thermostats being on motion sensors or require a key in a slot or something. In my experience, it does not take that long to cool down a 2 BR villa, so I am assuming with it being about the same SQ footage, it would not take too long to cool down a treehouse. . .now a Grand Villa may be a different story!! :)

The problem is keeping the room cool after you go to bed. The a/c turns off and you wake up sweating to death. (At least, I do.)

Sammie
06-04-2009, 09:02 PM
if the air conditioner sensors work based on the heat of the humans in the room how does a moving balloon help. :confused3

I did not think they were motion detectors but heat sensors.

TnRobin
06-04-2009, 10:32 PM
I have a real problem sleeping if I get hot. (gotta be less than 72 degrees or I lie awake) I even wake up at home and turn down the a/c. Honestly, I have had no problem here at the Treehouses with the room getting hot. It has actually been slightly cool some mornings. Maybe we have just had cool evenings this week, but I have slept like a baby.

SleepyatDVC
06-05-2009, 12:34 AM
I'm actually one of those people that leave the a/c on normal when I leave the room and turns it OFF completely when I come back or at least before bed. I think it does make a difference that we have stayed at hotel-like DVCs like BWV and AKV lately where the hallways are frigid.

I actually do like it cold when I sleep but only because I like to snuggle under blankies. ;) The thin blankets at WDW don't cut it for me and I never use the actual comforters. If I leave the a/c on at night, I get chilly or I'm up all night to pull the blankets back up on the kids. Easier for me to just shut it off before bedtime.

Sometimes if the room is stuffy when we get back from the parks, I turn it on high for a bit and it cools quickly and then I turn it back down low or off. I do think the hallways do leak a bit of the a/c into the room.

Now I'm not a fan of creepy crawlies so I'm not sure how that will go over with me. Will have to try it out at least once to judge for myself one day but will have to bring LOTS of repellent.

whithouston
06-07-2009, 11:00 AM
I just spoke with both Members Services and Saratoga directly and was told that parking 2 vehicles at the THV would not be a problem at all. The cast member I spoke to with Member Services said that he stayed there one night and the spot in front of his villa was already taken so he had to find another spot, but he assured me that two vehicles isn't a problem. Also when I spoke with Saratoga directly, that cast member said the same thing. She said that parking is limited there, but if there were two parking spots we could take them. While I somewhat disagree with this (the possibility of taking someone else's spot,) cast members are saying to do this....so...what do to??? We will have 9 and 2 vehicles at the end of the month...

danielle782001
06-07-2009, 11:35 AM
Here's a tip about overriding the air conditioning sensors, posted several times on DIS:

"On the thermostat push the power button and the down arrow (that adjusts the temp) at the exact same time. If you do this correctly there will be the letters "bp" where the temp numbers usually are. You are now bypassing the sensors in the room. You can then set the temp to whatever you want and it keeps the room that cold whether you are in it or not. The maintenance man said that you might have to do this once a day as the thermostat tends to go back to sensor mode after 24 hours. We found that it stayed on bypass for a couple of days at a time. It was great to come back to a cold room or not wake up in the middle of the night in a sweat again. The CM that did this for us said it was not a problem doing this as they do it for people all the time. Guess they get a lot of complaints."

Thanks for this!

lugnut33
06-07-2009, 11:38 AM
I just spoke with both Members Services and Saratoga directly and was told that parking 2 vehicles at the THV would not be a problem at all. The cast member I spoke to with Member Services said that he stayed there one night and the spot in front of his villa was already taken so he had to find another spot, but he assured me that two vehicles isn't a problem. Also when I spoke with Saratoga directly, that cast member said the same thing. She said that parking is limited there, but if there were two parking spots we could take them. While I somewhat disagree with this (the possibility of taking someone else's spot,) cast members are saying to do this....so...what do to??? We will have 9 and 2 vehicles at the end of the month...

I might have to add some more beefy members our group in August so we can pickup and move other peoples cars so we have parking spots.

I wonder if we bring a barracade that would work to save our parking spots?

BirdsOfPreyDave
06-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Some of the older thermostats used motion sensors. For those, the balloon trick worked fine. The newer ones, though, have a more sophisticated sensor that isn't based on motion. I don't mean to deprive your kids of a balloon on your next trip, but I don't think it's going to work at the THV.

The only tried and true way to keep the a/c running is to find the override code for the themostat. Sometimes the bellman will do it for you. (Ours claimed not to know anything about it on the last SSR trip, so maybe they've been told not to do it.) Others have reported luck with asking maintenance to show them.

Unfortunately, there's not a single standard for thermostats in Disney resorts. There seems to be a different one in every resort we try. Last trip, I had reports from the boards on how to override three different thermostat types. The villa we were in didn't match any of them.

Actually, for me, I've been able to call the a/c sensors a silver lining to getting older. Disney trips are the one time of year I don't mind getting up to use the restroom multiple times each night. Our place always stays nice and cool. :rotfl2:

danielle782001
06-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Is there a max temp before the air will kick back on without detecting motion?

deej696
06-07-2009, 06:07 PM
Personally, I wish we in the US would require all hotels to have the key activate the electricity in the rooms like they do in Europe. In my travels to Europe, its always been one of the things I am impressed with. There is no telling how much electricity we could save, but I'm sure its a bunch.....

global-mouse
06-07-2009, 08:43 PM
Maybe i have been living outside of the US for too long, but I am amazed at the lack of concern for the environment in this thread (with a few exceptions.)

To me it seems quite obvious that hotels have had to put this measure in place because guests do not seem concerned with leaving their a/c on for the 8 to 12 hours they are out in the parks. It seems everyone's concern is only to have a comfortable room when they return instead of waiting the 30 minutes or so for the room to cool down. OK, run the a/c for 12 hours so you have that 30 minutes extra of comfort. :sad2: It simply amazes me that no one seems worried as to what this is doing to our environment (or our DVC membership dues.):confused3

There is a simple solution that Disney doesn't seem to want to look at, which would be having the a/c programmed to turn on just before you return. Either programmable or come up with another way for the guest to activate the a/c at a specific time or remotely. The technology exists and this would both please guests, save money, and help the environment.

Ok, I will step off my soap box now. Sorry for the rant and don't get me wrong, I like my comfort (and cool rooms!) I just wish there was a better way.

tjkraz
06-07-2009, 10:18 PM
Couple quick comments (sorry, it's late)

We checked into the Treehouse villas today. On the parking situation, the from desk CM was very specific in saying that we could park only one vehicle.

On the air conditioning issue, so far I don't see the big deal at all. We have been in-and-out of the room at least 3 times. Each time we arrived the room was noticably cooler than the outside temp. Not that the AC was running the entire time, but there was definitely some relief from the heat.

And within 2-3 minutes of entering the villa, the AC had lowered the room temp to what most would consider comfortable.

I guess I should spend a couple more days (and nights) here before passing judgment, but so far it seems like a non-issue to me. We have never felt the least bit put-out by having to wait a couple minutes for near freezing temps in the room.

If anyone has any other THV questions, feel free to ask and I'll do what I can to answer.

EDIT: I'll also add that we haven't been bothered by bugs yet. There are pools of standing water in the swamp areas beneath the Treehouses, but no bugs to speak of (yet?)

Have seen a few critters--little lizards / geckos mostly. Oh and we got a few free golf balls courtesy of the LBV golfers. Don't worry--they were lying around the grounds not pinging off of our windows.

One negative I will add is the the THV area is more remote than I had recalled. Please, please, PLEASE do not stay here unless you have a car or reasonable expectations for how long it will take you to get around. Plan as if you'll be in one of the furthest THVs from the Carriage House. You can't just cross your fingers and hope to be really close. IMHO. YMMV.

cup29win
06-07-2009, 10:20 PM
Wow, Thanks for the heads' up. We were looking at staying there in October, but I like my A/C and hate mosquito's.

lugnut33
06-07-2009, 11:33 PM
tjkraz...

I wish you'd start a separate trip report thread.

I do have some questions.

1. Do you think we'll be OK with 8 people (six adults and 2 children) in one villa? Listening to Pete's review on the Dis he said it will be cramped. What do you think?

2. How is the sofa bed that is furnished? Anybody from your group sleeping on it and has an opinion?

3. Can you investigate the parking situation more? We'll have two cars and I don't know where the heck we'll have to park. I'm totally not interested in having to park and take a shuttle to the room. What if you steal your neighbors spot??? (I'm not saying I'll do that, but I worry about somebody taking ours?)

4. I wonder if the THV has it's own mousekeeping or does it rely on SSR?

5. What do you think of the pool? I know it looks plain, but that's OK with us. Is it centrally located?

malonefamily
06-08-2009, 01:01 AM
I am amazed at the lack of concern for the environment in this thread (with a few exceptions.)

I agree. I've never been so disappointed with my generally good natured DVC members. :sad1:

Why do most of the references to green technologies get sarcastic quote marks around them? It's not "green" it's just plain green. The planet is in trouble and Disney has finally, over the last five years or so, really begun to step up and show some leadership on environmental issues (after decades of setting a very bad example). The A/C sensors aren't there to make some politically correct point, they are there to save energy, money, and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Just how warm is it getting at night in these rooms that have people waking up in a sweat? I'm very skeptical... I want someone with a thermometer to do a trip report. Is the air conditioner completely disabled at night, or just set to a higher temperature than you might like? At any rate, there is no reason to keep a home large enough to sleep 9 people at 68-70 degrees during Florida's 95 degree days while you're in a park. Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to do that? No matter what you pay for your room you've no right to leave footprints this large in your wake.

I'm not an environmental radical, I'm a pretty boring mainstream guy... Most people accept that minor discomforts are part and parcel of a changing society that has to grapple with some difficult energy issues. :sad2:

bobbiwoz
06-08-2009, 07:12 AM
...I am amazed at the lack of concern for the environment in this thread (with a few exceptions.)
...

Thank you for saying this...I agree, whole-heartedly.

Bobbi:goodvibes

PS. Remember the discussions about the styrofoam cups in the studios? People rallied around that.

PPS. Let's try to find a solution other than have the a/c keeping the rooms cool for nobody.

tjkraz
06-08-2009, 08:43 AM
tjkraz...

I wish you'd start a separate trip report thread.

good point. Just wanted to add my observations to the topics here. But i'll gladly start another one later.

gkrykewy
06-08-2009, 09:04 AM
I agree. I've never been so disappointed with my generally good natured DVC members. :sad1:

Why do most of the references to green technologies get sarcastic quote marks around them? It's not "green" it's just plain green. The planet is in trouble and Disney has finally, over the last five years or so, really begun to step up and show some leadership on environmental issues (after decades of setting a very bad example). The A/C sensors aren't there to make some politically correct point, they are there to save energy, money, and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Just how warm is it getting at night in these rooms that have people waking up in a sweat? I'm very skeptical... I want someone with a thermometer to do a trip report. Is the air conditioner completely disabled at night, or just set to a higher temperature than you might like? At any rate, there is no reason to keep a home large enough to sleep 9 people at 68-70 degrees during Florida's 95 degree days while you're in a park. Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to do that? No matter what you pay for your room you've no right to leave footprints this large in your wake.

I'm not an environmental radical, I'm a pretty boring mainstream guy... Most people accept that minor discomforts are part and parcel of a changing society that has to grapple with some difficult energy issues. :sad2:

Agreed 100%.

ExecChef
06-08-2009, 09:32 AM
If I'm not mistaken, this is true of all new construction at Disney? They may even be retrofitting some of the old rooms with the sensors, we were at a 2BR in SSR last month (at Carousel), and it definitely had those sensors. I don't think it turned the AC off completely, but it always reset to about 74 degrees even though we had the thermostat set to around 70 when we left. I assume BLT will be the same since it's new also.

What's up with no locks on the bathrooms though? That sounds... unusual :confused:


where are the sensors located. Are they motion or heat sensing?

Doingitagain
06-08-2009, 05:31 PM
Are there multiple Internet connections and cords available or just in the master bedroom like a 2 bedroom?

tjkraz
06-08-2009, 10:03 PM
tjkraz...

I wish you'd start a separate trip report thread.


Posted your answers here:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?p=32192769&posted=1#post32192769

:thumbsup2