Gay Culture 101

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Another thread (seriously hijacked -- of course :lmao:) got me to thinkin -- what are the real touchstones for contemporary gay culture? Judy Garland? The L Word? 800 thread count aubergine egyptian cotton sheets? (Thank you Wally -- I am TOTALLY jealous!) For that matter, is there even such a thing as gay culture? Just wonderin what everybody thinks... :scratchin

[rpmdfw]

This will be interesting.

Do we start with Broadway Musicals and showtunes, or with the pop divas, or with Dyansty?

Or do we discuss why Bewitched was gay while I Dream of Jeannie was totally straight even though both shows had essentially the same premise?

[OrlandoMike]

Another thread (seriously hijacked -- of course :lmao:) got me to thinkin -- what are the real touchstones for contemporary gay culture? Judy Garland?

Well as the story goes, it was the death of Judy Garland that may or may not have sparked the Stonewall Riots, the start of the gay rights movement...:confused3

The uprising was inspirited by a potent cocktail of pent-up rage (raids of gay bars were brutal and routine), overwrought emotions (hours earlier, thousands had wept at the funeral of Judy Garland) and drugs. As a 17-year-old cross-dresser was being led into the paddy wagon and got a shove from a cop, she fought back. [She] hit the cop and was so stoned, she didn't know what she was doing--or didn't care.

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Well as the story goes, it was the death of Judy Garland that may or may not have sparked the Stonewall Riots, the start of the gay rights movement...:confused3

The uprising was inspirited by a potent cocktail of pent-up rage (raids of gay bars were brutal and routine), overwrought emotions (hours earlier, thousands had wept at the funeral of Judy Garland) and drugs. As a 17-year-old cross-dresser was being led into the paddy wagon and got a shove from a cop, she fought back. [She] hit the cop and was so stoned, she didn't know what she was doing--or didn't care.

WOW! I had no idea! I had always thought Stonewall was a manifestation of the overall 60s movement towards empowerment of (previously) disenfranchised groups. I never would have connected the death of Judy Garland to that pivotal event.

[npmommie]

Or do we discuss why Bewitched was gay while I Dream of Jeannie was totally straight even though both shows had essentially the same premise?

Uncle Arthur ???;)

[OrlandoMike]

Uncle Arthur ???;)

And dont forget Endora was gay in real life and so was the second Darren.

And if you ask me, Aunt Clara, well.......

[wallyb]

And dont forget Endora was gay in real life and so was the second Darren.

And if you ask me, Aunt Clara, well.......

I heard both Darrens. :confused3

[NHdisneylover]

Or do we discuss why Bewitched was gay while I Dream of Jeannie was totally straight even though both shows had essentially the same premise?

Someone should write a thesis exploring this:lmao:

[DVC~OKW~96]

My immediate thought when reading the first post was, "of course there is a gay culture!"

Some of the culture encompasses the strengths of our community, some encompasses the artistic expressions, the myriad of complexities of self identification, the realities of living as "other" in society, and the very real aspects of self protection.

However, it is important not to include in any culture, those actions/behaviors/aspects that are present as a result of oppression, and stigma. That is not a true representation of culture rather a statement of the bigotry and intolerance directed toward a given culture.

So, having said that... define it?

Whew. OK, again initial thoughts. Strength. Strong personalities. Semiotics that go beyond rainbow (albeit a very important one for all that). World views that tend to be more inclusive, not necessarily more understanding-simply more inclusive. Pure love of life for the sake of being (this is one of those aspects that can be a slippery slope to the aspects of culture NOT being inclusive of response to oppression. True love of life is the joy that we feel when we accept who and what we are without any self doubt. Getting there is another story. The very real danger of suicide in teens of the gay community is NOT an aspect of culture, rather an aspect of the oppression of that culture).

Must dash. Have to get to the facility... aren't you happy??? :rotfl:

[yasuern]

Personally and speaking as a straight person so really what the hell do I know?

I think truly just as many people that are straight like the things associated w/being gay wether its true or just stereotyping.


I have NO gaydar - truly no clue - but that aspect of a person is not what I really care about - any friendships I have formed over the years have been through common interested - or being at the same stage of life(not age) - Love of family, people that have a child the same age as mine, same hobbies and of course LOVE of animals and WDW - Gay Straight or Bi don't care - our commonalities is what binds us.



Okay less (way less) serious just need to know though really - Does anyone think Tom Cruise is Gay? - I have always thought he is - but again no gaydar - until i read it on this board I didn't know Adam:love:Lambert was gay:confused3



Sue:goodvibes

[wallyb]

Don't you dare give up "the keys to the kingdom" just for the asking!
If we let out all the secrets - Next thing you know -
Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants. :sad2:

[rpmdfw]

Uncle Arthur ???;)

And dont forget Endora was gay in real life and so was the second Darren.

And if you ask me, Aunt Clara, well.......

I heard both Darrens. :confused3

Not to mention Dr. Bombay, Samantha's father Maurice, and of course her evil brunette cousin Serena!

How is it that they created such high camp with this series and the other show took the same premise and some of the same gags (evil twin brunette cousin) and turned out such lackluster dreck?

It's a fascinating comparison.

[wallyb]

And then we have the secret rituals.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f241/wallyb3/balance.jpg

[rpmdfw]

And then we have the secret rituals.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f241/wallyb3/balance.jpg


Wally!

You could get into serious trouble letting straight people know about the secret rituals!

:lmao:

[wallyb]

Wally!

You could get into serious trouble letting straight people know about the secret rituals!

:lmao:

:eek: Well it was just the one.

Never mind everybody :eek: This is just a party game.
No cats let out of the bag here .
Move along.

[OrlandoMike]

Next thing you know -
Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants. :sad2:

Pass the bleach for my eyes please! :sick:

[rpmdfw]

:eek: Well it was just the one.


Sure it was just the one, but it was the "Floating Toboggan"! It's kind of advanced!

[jenn&nelsonrego]

Sometimes I just sit here and read and laugh and read and laugh and read and laugh and I have absolutely nothing to add to the conversation.... :sad2:

[wallyb]

Sure it was just the one, but it was the "Floating Toboggan"! It's kind of advanced!

Honey I passed it easy.
And with an extra guy. :thumbsup2

[Saxton]

Honey I passed it easy.
And with an extra guy. :thumbsup2

But were you wearing a flowing gown and singing "People"? You get additional points for style.

[NHdisneylover]

Don't you dare give up "the keys to the kingdom" just for the asking!
If we let out all the secrets - Next thing you know -
Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants. :sad2:
A terrifying thought:scared1:
Sometimes I just sit here and read and laugh and read and laugh and read and laugh and I have absolutely nothing to add to the conversation.... :sad2:
At least it is only sometimes for you--I do that most of the time:rolleyes1

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants. :sad2:

OMIGOSH!!!! THERE:scared:'S A MENTAL PICTURE I SURE DIDN'T NEED BURNED INTO MY MIND'S EYE!!!!!!

[TuckandStuiesMom]

But were you wearing a flowing gown and singing "People"? You get additional points for style.

Hmmmmm... I thought the proper musical theme was "Send in the Clowns"...

[unfreshdiva1]

I just had conversation recently with my guy about what/who makes a gay icon. My thoughts are that we really have Cher, Bette, Madonna, and Cyndi. All strong, creative women. But then he asked, were are the male icons? Good question. Can't really think of a "gay idol" that really ment anything to me growing up in the 80's (although had a crush on George Michael before knowing he was gay, and John Stamos). :cool1:

[AmandaSparks730]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

[kingLouiethe1]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

Don't tell my husband who loves Barbra Streisand, but the more he listens to her, the less I can stand her. It might just be pre-wedding stress at this point, but if I hear "people" one more time :furious:

Ok, so I'm being a little melodramatic, but seriously, I don't have an affinity for any of the gay icons. I'd rather put on some Abba or Beatles or someone more contemporary like Jack Johnson or the Decemberists to take me to a happy place.

[kaffinito]

Maybe the answer lies more in what straight people think is gay culture. Just a thought. I've been wondering the same thing.

There are so many stereotypes floating around that I wonder where the differences between perceived gay culture and real gay culture lies. For example, look at Spamalot and the jokes it has to appeal to a wide audience and the "new" uniform for lesbian women. (Sorry, but I call it a uniform. Lesbians 20 years ago didn't dress like that - or maybe I'm just mis-remembering. :upsidedow )

At any rate, my point is that those ideas of what "gay"means or looks like permeate our collective culture.

[DVC~OKW~96]

What "new uniform" for lesbians? :confused:

[MsLeFever]

I heard both Darrens. :confused3

Well, Bewitched was the only show with two Dicks! (Dick York and Dick Sargent!)

[SanFranciscan]

Another thread (seriously hijacked -- of course :lmao:) got me to thinkin -- what are the real touchstones for contemporary gay culture? Judy Garland? The L Word? 800 thread count aubergine egyptian cotton sheets? (Thank you Wally -- I am TOTALLY jealous!) For that matter, is there even such a thing as gay culture? Just wonderin what everybody thinks... :scratchin

Oh, this thread is too funny! I had a male classmate who used to say "He's a friend of Dorothy" in a high-pitched voice when he was refering to another gay man. I figured that he meant Judy Garland but still asked "Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz?" Yep, that's who he meant.

There isn't a gay culture the way that there is a national culture or a regional culture, but there is definately gender blending that can feel culture-like. This was addressed in a charming book called "Passion To Preserve" about the preservation of historic buildings that have been renovated as housing or bed and breakfast inns.

If there is a "gay culture," is there a separate one for gay men and for lesbians? I notice that there are certain organizations that have nothing to do with sex where gay men are highly represented and certain other organizations, also having nothing to do with sex, where lesbians are the ones highly represented.

[kaffinito]

What "new uniform" for lesbians? :confused:

Sorry - should have explained further. When I was younger, lesbians would dress is slightly mannish clothes, but nothing like what I'm seeing today. Some of the lesbians I see, the younger ones, not the older ones, wear mens workshirts, slacks, and have that really short hair. Maybe there were women who dressed like that deliberately years ago that identified themselves as lesbian but I don't remember that particular "uniform" being as popular with lesbians as it seems to me to be today.

I hope that makes sense to you. 20 years ago even you couldn't be as "out" as you can be today. I really do think that being gay is more acceptable today then it was then, but maybe my perception is colored by life experience as well. :)

[2GirlsMama]

Okay, I am straight (married 12 years next month), and I absolutely love the guys on "Queer Eye". I love how they truly try to help straight guys to improve. The tall guy with dark hair is so amazingly cute. I forget his name but he helps with hair and skin. He is so sincere. I just love him.

What does that show say about "gay culture"?

Leah

[Lukas87]

Contemporary is definately relative, I suppose. I am 22, and have only been out for about 2 years. Most of the stuff on the first page in this thread is meaningless to me.

My first taste of gay 'culture' was from Queer as Folk.

[kyle82]

i can't tolerate extreme gay culture.. there are lots of ways of engaging into them but sometimes super gay people are irritating especially when their extreme behavior is shown in exaggeration.. :happytv:

[DVC~OKW~96]

Lukas, Queer As Folk was a good glimpse, but to an extent it was the ideal, eh? Well, I guess that depends upon your point of view! But for the most part the show did a great job of showing the issues, the dynamics of relationships and the extremes in our culture. It was an amazingly brave show with wonderfully courageous actors. ::yes::

That is not to say there are not extremes of the same ilk in het culture, just in case anyone is getting that bit confused. :rotfl:

Gay culture is historical in nature and by definition. We can take it back to the late 1800's where "Boston Marriages" became the term for two women living together... it's sometimes hard to pick out gay semiotics in history as women living together has always been somewhat more accepted in society than with two men living together.

I don't see any one "uniform" for a given group, within the gay community. Young women tend to dress with great self expression and I really love to see that. Is it because they are gay? Dunno. When you get a group of lesbians together, from all age groups there is every spectrum of dress style covered. ::yes:: That tends to normalize it for me, and not point toward a given uniformity of dress. Well, maybe with the exception of the shoes! :rotfl:

Perception seems to be the main focus for me. As a lesbian in today's society, I am forever feeling out of step with "them, the others." I don't shop in certain places, and won't eat in certain places and won't buy gas from certain places, and don't use certain terms/words/expressions... that sort of thing. Nothing special, nothing unique, except that when I'm interacting in a het setting (as I do every day) I am clearly "the other" with "that seriously weird point of view." :confused3

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy ... I'm still ambivalent about that show. I think it did some measure of 'good' in bringing gay men into people's living rooms on a weekly basis, but in so far as representative of the larger culture? :confused3 I would rather have seen Queer Eye of the Queer Guy for the Queer Woman! LOL! Can you imagine how much fun that would be? Carson telling a lesbian how to dress? Yep! Yep! Yep! I'd be tuning in! :teeth:

[DVC~OKW~96]

Ooops, meant to add this clarification. The 1800's is by no means the "beginning" of anything. It was just a random time frame I chose to mention. The Gay experience goes back much further than that! ::yes::

[2GirlsMama]

Perception seems to be the main focus for me. As a lesbian in today's society, I am forever feeling out of step with "them, the others." I don't shop in certain places, and won't eat in certain places and won't buy gas from certain places, and don't use certain terms/words/expressions... that sort of thing. Nothing special, nothing unique, except that when I'm interacting in a het setting (as I do every day) I am clearly "the other" with "that seriously weird point of view."


It is so interesting that you mention feeling like "the other" with a different point of view. I am the mother of two beautiful, intelligent, healthy, caring daughters. They became our daughters through adoption. So many times during conversations with women (either gay or straight) who have biological children I feel like "the other", like they just don't understand becoming a mother in a way other than through giving birth. There is a "culture" of motherhood and at times it seems to be that the perception is that becoming a mother through adoption is a lesser means of motherhood. It causes me to feel like I have a "seriously weird point of view". I feel such a strong bond/love with my daughters. They are my daughters, not my adopted daughters. Words can not express the depth of my emotions and dedication to them. It makes me crazy when Angelina & Brad's children are described as: their adopted son, and their biological daughter. They are their children. So, in a similar way, I have words and phrases I won't use. There are charitable organizations I won't support because of their opinions concerning orphans.

I wonder if my feelings about becoming a mother through different means might be similiar to feelings about becoming the wife or husband to someone of the same gender. The love and dedication are real, deep feelings to create a forever family. I often wonder why people feel the need to comment on the way my family was formed. I am frequently puzzled by people asking "are they adopted". First why does the questioner care, and second why does it matter? A worse question is "are they yours"? It comes across like they are puppies and we picked them up at the store.

No one ever adopted by accident. It is a thoughtful, time-consuming endeavor with limitless benefits. I wonder if everyone, gay, straight, whatever, feels like "the other" with "a seriously weird point of view" concerning any facet of life which harbors strong emotions.

It is early in the morning here for such a serious post. Your thoughtful comments just got me started thinking.

Wow, I just hi-jacked my first thread on this board! I don't think I did it in the right way. Isn't there something about naked goats I am supposed to mention in order to properly hijack a thread? I will work on it.

[kaffinito]

Maybe I just see the uniform because it irks me so much. :) I mean you can be butch without looking like Archie Bunker all the time for pete's sake!

I do agree about the perspective of the "other". When I have conversations with other moms, I have the perspective of the "other" because they have kids who are considered "normal" by our society whereas I have kids who are ASD and who are not considered "normal". (Personally I wouldn't trade my kids for theirs, they'll have a ton of problems when their kids turn into teens that I won't and don't.)

I'm also an "other" when hanging out or having conversations with other women whether gay or straight. If you're "bi" you have trouble relating to either group. There was the perception by either side that you have to be in one camp or the other, and if you aren't solidly gay or hetero then you must be some sort of a flake. I hope that's changed, because after thirty years I hardly think I'm "confused" about my orientation. :)

So there are many ways in which all of us will be the "other" in situations where we don't fit the "norm" for that social subset. If you're not a sports nut or a scrapbooking nut then you'll be the "other" when you're in that group as well.

As for the original topic, I still see gay culture as two different things. There is the real gay culture as lived by gay men and women, and the gay culture as perceived by heteros. Two different cultures, two different perceptions with a lot of overlap in some areas.

[ConcKahuna]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

The first bunch of women you mentioned all have gay family or professional ties that go back to the start of their careers, and also have very flambouyant styles. Bette. Bette Midler actually got her start performing in gay bath houses, so she has always had a huge gay following. Liza is of course the daughter of Judy Garland, and she has a thing for getting married to gay men :rotfl2:

Judy Garland was a big gay icon for a few reasons. Her dad was bisexual, and she had several close relationships with gay men. Her over-the-top style and fights with drug abuse and depression also were things that many gay men can relate to.

One of my personal icons is Cindy Lauper. She has always been a very outspoken supporter of gay rights, and she's always been a bit different herself :)

[wallyb]

One of my personal icons is Cindy Lauper. She has always been a very outspoken supporter of gay rights, and she's always been a bit different herself :)

:worship:And She is so "killer" live.:woohoo:
Go see her if you ever get the chance.:cloud9:
She's so unusual. ;)

[yasuern]

Okay I have been following this thread and still no answer IS TOM CRUISE GAY - Need help here please.


Gay culture, African American culture, Native American culture and the list goes on and on - I am in favor of American or World culture - lots of different taste, lifestyles, religions, and this list could go on and on - Bottom line - we all have our traditions(although the bobsled image is burned into my memory forever), our likeness's(sp) and differences but deep down we are more alike than different.

I want to President - because I don't care what anyones sexually preference is or religion or race etc -People gay Bi straight everycolor of the rainbow and every religion should all have the same rights! Isn't this just simple? Why is it such a debate??? Guess I'm glad I don't understand why some people oppose others religion, sex. pref. etc so much -- Okay went way off topic and since I did I'll add a story hope it won't offend anyone

Last year......

A gay friend of mine recently dumped by his partner - was asked to move into his hairdressers home(alittle background hairdresser is gay and lives w/ his partener but BOTH have "flirted" with my friend intensely) no rent gave him a car to use his own MB suite in their home. They invited him to WDW Gay Days all expenses paid - Well my friend not knowing much about WDW asked(cause he's a fast ride freak) "Are there any good rides in WDW?" to which I answered "You are the ride at WDW"


Well lets just say everyone had a nice time at WDW:)



Sue(Who has had to much coffee and will be banned from the Disboards someday):goodvibes

[ConcKahuna]

Okay I have been following this thread and still no answer IS TOM CRUISE GAY - Need help here please.


I hope not. That man has too much crazy for our side to want him.

[rpmdfw]

i can't tolerate extreme gay culture.. there are lots of ways of engaging into them but sometimes super gay people are irritating especially when their extreme behavior is shown in exaggeration.. :happytv:

super gay people? :confused:


You mean like gay superheroes?
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/uploads/gay1.jpg

[OrlandoMike]

Contemporary is definately relative, I suppose. I am 22, and have only been out for about 2 years. Most of the stuff on the first page in this thread is meaningless to me.

My first taste of gay 'culture' was from Queer as Folk.

OMG you totally missed a great guy....Paul Lynde! He was on Bewitched and later was the center square for Hollywood Squares! I remember this night watching the news....It was a pretty big deal in poor little Toledo Ohio, to have such a "outrageous guy" on local tv!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ7x6way2-M&feature=related

[rpmdfw]

OMG you totally missed a great guy....Paul Lynde! He was on Bewitched and later was the center square for Hollywood Squares! I remember this night watching the news....It was a pretty big deal in poor little Toledo Ohio, to have such a "outrageous guy" on local tv!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ7x6way2-M&feature=related



LOVED Paul Lynde! He was awesome! And SOOO funny!

[ConcKahuna]

super gay people? :confused:


You mean like gay superheroes?
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/uploads/gay1.jpg

Or, the real-life gay superhero, PARTHENON!

http://julieluongo.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/superhero-partenon.jpg

[TuckandStuiesMom]

I hope not. That man has too much crazy for our side to want him.

:rotfl::lmao::rotfl:

[TuckandStuiesMom]

:worship:And She is so "killer" live.:woohoo:
Go see her if you ever get the chance.:cloud9:
She's so unusual. ;)

I think the whole family is probably pretty interesting/awesome -- she has a sister who is/was big-time into the Socialist Workers Party and who is openly gay.

[wallyb]

I think the whole family is probably pretty interesting/awesome -- she has a sister who is/was big-time into the Socialist Workers Party and who is openly gay.

pssssst - She's so unusual. - the name of her first album-
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/loveofaloha/80s%20kids/thcyndi-lauper-shes-so-unusual-albu.jpg

[TuckandStuiesMom]

pssssst - She's so unusual. - the name of her first album-
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n253/loveofaloha/80s%20kids/thcyndi-lauper-shes-so-unusual-albu.jpg

OoooooOoooooHhhhhhhh. Well DUH.

I was just grooving on her family cuz I've got a pretty interesting bunch in mine too -- many of whom are camping out here right now.

[wallyb]

OoooooOoooooHhhhhhhh. Well DUH.

I was just grooving on her family cuz I've got a pretty interesting bunch in mine too -- many of whom are camping out here right now.

Rat poison in the meat-loaf -
And just like that
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/doopman85/snap.gif
the family problem is solved

[DVC~OKW~96]

Well, I don't know about all ya'lls but I'm of the opinion that all the gay people here are "super gay people!" ::yes::

Paul Lynde. Oh gosh! Absolutely! LOL!

In so much as "feeling other" that can apply to anyone in almost any setting in which they are supposed to fit or interact and don't. Adoptive parents, stay at home Dads, etc.

However, I would argue (and yep, that means there will be differing points of view :teeth: ) that being gay is a comprehensive "other" that is not by choice (as is adoption, staying at home to raise children, etc.) rather by existence.

It's not to claim a "greater" sense of disenfranchisement rather to acknowledge that I have a personal dislike for the tendency to to diminish the realities of being gay within a het society. When the topic is brought up, far too many times some non-gay folk will rush to point out how "they feel the same way for different reasons." Ummmm...nope. Those perceptions may provide empathy, but are not the same any more than my being of European descent and a lesbian gives me "the same" sense of being as a woman of color who is hetersexual. We may have empathy for one another's recognition of being "other" but we do not have the same "feelings" or responses to the "condition" of being other. :confused3

Being young (Under 30! :teeth: ) and gay today is a great place to be for many reason, but not all by any means. There is modern history to look back on and learn from; to provide a sense of community; to provide a frame of reference that allows today's young person to feel connected, to have a "past" with which to associate.

Gay culture which encompasses gay semiotics is very real, very distinct and very much gay, and not heterosexual. ::yes:: :)

[ConcKahuna]

Gay culture which encompasses gay semiotics is very real, very distinct and very much gay, and not heterosexual. ::yes:: :)

I'm not exactly old, but I was discussing gay culture with a friend online who's 20, and when I mentioned Stonewall he had no clue what it was. It was kind of sad :(

[wallyb]

I'm not exactly old, but I was discussing gay culture with a friend online who's 20, and when I mentioned Stonewall he had no clue what it was. It was kind of sad :(

Even with Milk - last year? :sad2:
They had a bit about Stonewall in the first part ... right.

[ConcKahuna]

Even with Milk - last year? :sad2:
They had a bit about Stonewall in the first part ... right.

I still havent seen it. I'm poor, so I have to wait for it to find its way to the used bin at Blockbuster :rolleyes1

[wallyb]

I still havent seen it. I'm poor, so I have to wait for it to find its way to the used bin at Blockbuster :rolleyes1

Didn't you just see like 4 movies in one night at the theater? :confused3

[ConcKahuna]

Didn't you just see like 4 movies in one night at the theater? :confused3

On a free ticket I won at work ::yes::

[wallyb]

On a free ticket I won at work ::yes::

COOL! :banana:
Good for you.

[dis75ney]

Don't you dare give up "the keys to the kingdom" just for the asking!
If we let out all the secrets - Next thing you know -
Rush Limbaugh is prancing around in a rainbow tank top and hot pants. :sad2:

That thought will give me nightmares for...oh, the rest of my life!!!

[SanFranciscan]

I have thought about an issue brought up on this thread. At first glance it might appear that adoption and gay rights would have no connection. I think that gays have much in common with the mothers called "biological mothers," as if they were just pieces of lab equipment and not actually related to their children and who should just deliver their commodities and then just get lost.

Like the mothers whose grief everybody wants to forget about or deny, gays have been voiceless for too long. Gays are heavily represented in certain professions and are welcome while cutting our hair, nursing us at our hospital bedsides, etc. by those who wish to deny gays marriage rights etc. Gays are expected to serve their purpose so to speak and then pipe down and go away the rest of the time.

[JarethDrakul]

Not to be insulting, but I was wondering this...

What is it with gay men and Madonna, Cher, Bette Midler, and Liza Minelli? A classmate/friend of mine is gay, and he ADORES these three women (not to mention Julia Roberts and Marilyn Monroe). Can anyone explain these "gay icons"?

I've always found it weird that Cher and Bette Midler (never paid much attention to Madonna or Liza Minelli) are gay icons as I've liked them since I was very young (the first CD I ever bought was Cher's Greatest hits 1965-1992 and I got that in 1993 when I was like 2 (I was a baby with class :-P).

The apparently like the music style of Chanson is considered a "gay thing" in Japan :confused3

[ConcKahuna]

Speaking of Bette, I've always loved this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhP-oA-IktY

[Travito]

It is sooo ironic that I stumbled upon this thread.

I've been a lurker for some time now..with the occasional post here and there. Well lately, I've been thinking of writing a book--a "Big Gay Handbook", so to speak...with various sections that include gay history, icons and why they are, "classifications" of gays/lesbians, issues of gay rights, etc.

But whats so ironic about this thread, is that I stumbled upon it moments after thinking "I should start outlining what I want to include in this book", but then decided to surf Disboards instead (ADD, much?).

But I mention this because I'm curious to hear if anyone would be interested in seeing such a book, if there are already some that exist (we don't have much gay-related literature/media in eastern kentucky), and what you would like to see included!!! :)

[rpmdfw]

Well, it's been out forever, and it's a "humor" book, but I think this one is a great start to the kind of thing you're talking about. http://www.amazon.com/Unofficial-Gay-Manual-Kevin-DiLallo/dp/0385474458/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243389353&sr=8-1

Plus there's this one: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Growing-up-Gay/Funny-Gay-Males/e/9780786880560

I like these books because they poke fun at the stereotypes. But let's face it, stereotypes become stereotypes because they're very common. So, I think they're an amusing look at "gay culture".

Plus there are a LOT of "the history of the gay rights movement" books out there.

[Travito]

Well, it's been out forever, and it's a "humor" book, but I think this one is a great start to the kind of thing you're talking about. http://www.amazon.com/Unofficial-Gay-Manual-Kevin-DiLallo/dp/0385474458/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243389353&sr=8-1

Plus there's this one: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Growing-up-Gay/Funny-Gay-Males/e/9780786880560

I like these books because they poke fun at the stereotypes. But let's face it, stereotypes become stereotypes because they're very common. So, I think they're an amusing look at "gay culture".

Plus there are a LOT of "the history of the gay rights movement" books out there.


Thanks for showing those :)... Its nice to know what I need to steer clear of copying. It's going to be "humorous" at points (i.e. the classifications of gay men/lesbians). But not all of it is going to be (the history, science, etc.).

And the history part of it is only going to be, just that...a part. I'm not going to into great lengths and try and cover ever detail. Just bits and pieces of important moments (ancient Greece... Stonewall riots...Prop 8).

And I think I'm also going to include a "Science of homosexuality" section... mentioning research that's been done to prove homosexuality is genetic, as well as the occurrence of homosexuality/bisexuality in animals.

But can you think of anything that would be good for the book that you've not seen in any other book?

[OrlandoMike]

Dude..

If you can just clear up what the difference is between a Bear, a Wolf, and an Otter is for me..... I would be happy! :rotfl2:

[Travito]

Dude..

If you can just clear up what the difference is between a Bear, a Wolf, and an Otter is for me..... I would be happy! :rotfl2:

Bear -- Gay male generally with lots of facial botter hair.
Otter -- A "bear" that is skinny/lean.
Wolf -- An aggressive otter.

It kind of saddens me that I know that. LOL:rotfl2:

[NHdisneylover]

So this seems to be the place to ask: what is the deal with techno?:confused3 Seriously, people ask where the best gay night spots are now taht PI closed down and the discussions seems to go something like "well XYZ plays techno on Tuesdays and ABC plays techno on Fridays" etc. When did techno start to equal gay club and why:confused3? Ya'll usually have much better taste than that:lmao:

[wallyb]

Speaking of Bette, I've always loved this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhP-oA-IktY

Gay Trifecta!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YnlFp4CtvI&feature=related

[DVC~OKW~96]

Personally, I think it would be nice to move away from labels, sub labels, and sub-sub labels. :confused3 Being lesbian is enough thanks. I would hope being gay is enough too. ::yes:: "Naming" those minute differences between the community of gay folk seems to be a negative to me. Just be gay. It really is that easy. ::yes:: :)

[DVC~OKW~96]

WOW! Hey Wally! NICE one!! Made the morning a bit brighter seeing Bette in that dress! :teeth:

[SeattleRedBear]

Gay Trifecta!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YnlFp4CtvI&feature=related

OMG!!! Flip Wilson!!

But I couldn't tear my eyes away from this
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtV3lx4eT5w)

Just wrong on so many levels! Kate's doing a Dame Edna.

Can't...tear...my...eyes...away....

[wallyb]

Bear -- Gay male generally with lots of facial botter hair.
Otter -- A "bear" that is skinny/lean.
Wolf -- An aggressive otter.

It kind of saddens me that I know that. LOL:rotfl2:

So now we have to pick a woodland animal we identify with. :confused3

[rpmdfw]

So now we have to pick a woodland animal we identify with. :confused3

I don't remember THAT from Auntie Mame or The Women or The Boys in the Band . . . .:confused:

[wallyb]

Okay -If I have to pick I'm going with
Snagglepuss!

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f241/wallyb3/wallpapers_snagglepuss_02_1280.png

Heavens to Murgatroid!

[rpmdfw]

Okay -If I have to pick I'm going with
Snagglepuss!

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f241/wallyb3/wallpapers_snagglepuss_02_1280.png

Heavens to Murgatroid!

:rotfl2:

[TuckandStuiesMom]

But can you think of anything that would be good for the book that you've not seen in any other book?

History -- I thought it was sad when Mr. Conck posted that somebody he knew didn't know about Stonewall.

Another section that I think might be interesting/useful would be a section on legal precedents. Last summer, I had reason to do some research on women's employment law and it was fascinating. "Disparate impact" is a particular interesting topic.

[DVC~OKW~96]

SeattleRedBear, the best thing about that video was the rainbow! :lmao: Was kind of fun to watch though! :dance3:

[kaffinito]

Well, I don't know about all ya'lls but I'm of the opinion that all the gay people here are "super gay people!" ::yes::

In so much as "feeling other" that can apply to anyone in almost any setting in which they are supposed to fit or interact and don't. Adoptive parents, stay at home Dads, etc.

However, I would argue (and yep, that means there will be differing points of view :teeth: ) that being gay is a comprehensive "other" that is not by choice (as is adoption, staying at home to raise children, etc.) rather by existence.

It's not to claim a "greater" sense of disenfranchisement rather to acknowledge that I have a personal dislike for the tendency to to diminish the realities of being gay within a het society. When the topic is brought up, far too many times some non-gay folk will rush to point out how "they feel the same way for different reasons." Ummmm...nope. Those perceptions may provide empathy, but are not the same any more than my being of European descent and a lesbian gives me "the same" sense of being as a woman of color who is hetersexual. We may have empathy for one another's recognition of being "other" but we do not have the same "feelings" or responses to the "condition" of being other. :confused3

Which is true, but the feelings of being an "other" still persist, whether or not the person who is feeling that "otherness" is coming from exactly the same perspective that you are. We can all relate to one another on a larger level, without getting to the point of having our individual feelings held to an exactness.

And yes, you are correct that we don't have the same feelings and responses to the condition of otherness, but then how could we? Unless we all live in the same environment, and have had exactly the same experiences, we can't have exactly the same responses to otherness. You won't have the same responses to otherness that I have, because you are accepted by the community you identify with, whereas I have none. KWIM? :)

I never make the assumption that my level of otherness will match anyone elses, or that my empathy will be perfect, but I do treasure that empathy and that connection that our feelings of disenfranchisement gives us. Sometimes it's a meeting of "likes" and other times it's a meeting of "I can relate" but in each case I know how you feel, even if I don't have exactly the same set of feelings that you do. :)

[DVC~OKW~96]

As I said, "there will be differing points of view." :)

I do not accept the "I know how you feel" unless you come from the same reference point.

"I understand that what you are feeling is painful, distressing, ect. because I can relate to it given my separate but related experience..." yes, that I agree with.

But someone telling me "I know how you feel" when they are not in the same situation as I (whether it be lesbian, or grieving the loss of a loved one, or someone who has wiped out on a motorcycle, ect.) is in my opinion patronizing. :confused3

Even within a same reference point (loss of a beloved person in one's life, for example) I never say "I know how you feel" because I don't. I know how I FELT when I suffered a loss, and that allows me to be compassionate and understand that you are facing aching loneliness and pain, but to absolutely know how someone feels? Nope. It's more than semantics for me you see. It's that psycholinguistic major thing. :upsidedow The words we use do matter, they do order our society, and they do set the tone and create the atmosphere for social exchange.

As I said, "there will be differing points of view." :) Your position is as valid for you, and mine is for me. Nothing to change on either front. :)

[wallyb]

Psycholinguistic! :eek:

Say the secret word win $100 bucks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQODIqk2BdU&feature=related

[SanFranciscan]

Psycholinguistic! :eek:


I had the same reaction. All I know is that I can't ever know how someone else feels. I can imagine how I might feel in the same situation, and remember even that is just speculation.

[DVC~OKW~96]

OK. So I suffered through that entire video and don't get the connection? :confused3 Warn a body next time you link to something like that will ya'? It was beyond scary. :scared1:

[wallyb]

OK. So I suffered through that entire video and don't get the connection? :confused3 Warn a body next time you link to something like that will ya'? It was beyond scary. :scared1:
Don't get your panties in a twist...
It was a game show hosted by Groucho Marx.
If you said the secret word you won money. :rolleyes:

[DVC~OKW~96]

Yeah, hon I figured that much out. :rolleyes:

I don't get the connection to psycholinguistics. :laughing:

And my knickers are never in a twist. :snooty:

[SeattleRedBear]

I demand that you take this thread to Cuba....now!!!

Although Husbear did enjoy seeing Aldo Ray's brother ("Let me see that...Yep, that's Aldo Ray's brother.") And there's nothing scary about Groucho Marx (maybe a little creepy in his later years, but certainly not scary).