Oh yea - COASTER WARS IN ORLANDO !!!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Someone on another thread here said smart businesses build during a recession.

He's RIGHT - look at these two new ones scheduled to open this summer! Add construction of Harry Potter - Disney is going to have some new competition.

Oh yea



By Mark Albright, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Thursday, April 23, 2009

Universal Studios Florida has stalled the opening of its Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit a few months until the summer for what is shaping up as a coaster war with Manta, Florida's first "flying coaster" that opens May 22 at SeaWorld.

Universal was mum about the exact reasons for the delay, but detailed the first-of-its-kind features in its unusual German-designed thrill ride.

"It's the most sophisticated coaster we've ever created," said spokesman Tom Schroder. "So we want to be sure we get it right."

With attendance slumping through the spring, all Central Florida theme parks are pulling out discounts and counting on new attractions to draw more locals through a summer with fewer out-of-state vacationers.

The ride, with a top speed of 65 miles per hour, has 3,800 feet of track stretching from Universal's New York Street to the front gate and actually barrels through a hole in a building facade beyond it. The new pint-size, two-car, 12-passenger trains — called X-cars — are far more maneuverable than bigger coaster cousins and can flip, twist and turn in much less space.

The signature move is a non-inverted loop. That means the train runs around a 103-foot tall loop, starting on the inside of the curve, then twists 180 degrees on the way up and back down. The train soars over the top of the loop, so riders are never upside down, but are subjected to changes in centrifugal force.

The track also runs through a massive musical treble clef, flies over the ride queue at a 95-degree angle to the ground and does a spiraling negative-gravity roll that is designed to feel like a corkscrew without actually going upside down.

In a bit of one-upmanship with the Aerosmith soundtrack piped into cars at the Hollywood Rock 'n' Rollercoaster at Walt Disney World, Universal will offer riders a choice of 30 rock tunes for the experience. Each rider also will be offered a DVD recording of his or her personal experience on the ride set to music for a price not yet disclosed.

At SeaWorld, Manta is a steel coaster designed to look like a school of manta rays. Riders are suspended facedown in a prone position through multiple loops.


- wait - WE have the new pirates version of the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique outside the Pirates of the Caribbean AND American Idol. Oh yea

[jlewisinsyr]

Disney also has continued to adjust perks, like no package delivery to resort rooms (this has been gone a while) and Universal adds things like front of the line access for on-site guests.

I love Disney dearly, but the mouse needs to find its way back home to steal back the magic.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Disney's challenge is they have nothing really fabulous under construction in their parks. Yes, construction takes years ..... but then we would have years to get excited.

It's more and more obvious that Disney is riding on a reputation.

Wait until the generation of Harry Potter finds out there is a new park open for them!

[jimmymac]

Makes doing a split stay at US / WDW much more probale for a lot of people I bet. Disney has been living on its reputation for too long and now it's starting to show:sad2:

[Metro West]

It's a great time to be a coaster loving Orlando resident! :cool1:

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I have a friend who is a Cedar Point addict and he can't wait to try the new Universal Studios coaster. It's supposed to beat anything Cedar Point has. DH just announced it may be too wild for him....I think he will be standing with me and the white flag!

[KYMickey]

Someone on another thread here said smart businesses build during a recession.
Actually these coasters as well as the Harry Potter area at Universal were planned and started before the recession. Fortunately Universal and Sea World both decided to continue as planned instead of delaying the projects when the recession began! Disney on the other hand had nothing under way (except vacation club units) prior to the recession starting and they haven't planned or started anything since.

Before long Disney will not be a top place in Orlando to visit if they're not careful. :worship:

[Condorman]

Why does WDW have to keep up with USO? Even after the new Rip Ride Rockit and Harry Potter land, USO still won't have 1/3 as many attractions, rides, shows, resorts or F&B outlets as WDW. As for SW, there is no comparison. USO has nowhere to go but expand. It would take another 20 years for them to catch up with WDW, and even then they would not have the movie material, characters and archives to bring in the children. USO is for teens and adults. They pride themselves on not having pixie dust. They shouldn't. That's why WDW is eons ahead of them in terms of revenue.

As for anyone wondering why Disney doesn't do more with their parks, they are, just not in WDW. They have committed $1.5b to DCA, which desperately needs it. WDW has enough of everything to satisfy a family of four for a week. The only reason we complain about it is because we are the dreamers who can think of a hundred rides, themes and lands we would like to see in WDW that Disney's budgets simply will never allow.

Is converting PI, rethemeing Spoodles, inserting a pirate's makeover, picnic in AK, and a few new DVCs the best Disney can do? Of course not. But they don't HAVE to do more.

[KYMickey]

Is converting PI, rethemeing Spoodles, inserting a pirate's makeover, picnic in AK, and a few new DVCs the best Disney can do? Of course not. But they don't HAVE to do more.That would be better off doing nothing than doing some of these hokey additions! Most if not all of these are just a ploy to make money without adding anything to the visitor's experience. As a matter of fact several of them take away from the experience.

I don't think anyone really expects Disney to do a major expansion anytime soon but a few respectable tidbits annually and something major every couple of years would be nice! :yay:

[Uncleromulus]

I know some of you guys love the thrill rides and I'm glad for you that these will be built. As for me--I wouldn't even consider riding either of the two new ones. Heck, I don't even get on the ones thay have now!!
Build me some new Dark rides!!!!

[OrlandoMike]

I have a friend who is a Cedar Point addict and he can't wait to try the new Universal Studios coaster. It's supposed to beat anything Cedar Point has.

Sorry.......But :rotfl2:

[ChrisFL]

Why does WDW have to keep up with USO? Even after the new Rip Ride Rockit and Harry Potter land, USO still won't have 1/3 as many attractions, rides, shows, resorts or F&B outlets as WDW. As for SW, there is no comparison. USO has nowhere to go but expand. It would take another 20 years for them to catch up with WDW, and even then they would not have the movie material, characters and archives to bring in the children. USO is for teens and adults. They pride themselves on not having pixie dust. They shouldn't. That's why WDW is eons ahead of them in terms of revenue.

As for anyone wondering why Disney doesn't do more with their parks, they are, just not in WDW. They have committed $1.5b to DCA, which desperately needs it. WDW has enough of everything to satisfy a family of four for a week. The only reason we complain about it is because we are the dreamers who can think of a hundred rides, themes and lands we would like to see in WDW that Disney's budgets simply will never allow.

Is converting PI, rethemeing Spoodles, inserting a pirate's makeover, picnic in AK, and a few new DVCs the best Disney can do? Of course not. But they don't HAVE to do more.

You'd make a good WDW exec, that's exactly what they're thinking, but it won't help them in the long run. The fact is that any Disney fan should hope that Universal DOES take lots of guests away from WDW so that Disney is forced to invest in lots of new attractions for ALL ages to enjoy.

[Condorman]

You'd make a good WDW exec, that's exactly what they're thinking, but it won't help them in the long run. The fact is that any Disney fan should hope that Universal DOES take lots of guests away from WDW so that Disney is forced to invest in lots of new attractions for ALL ages to enjoy.

I am a WDW Exec... Executive P-I-T-A! :)

Actually, I agree with you. They should announce at least one large expansion or addition each year -- something to whet our appetites each season, even if the implementation itself takes a long time. I just tend to think we overlook their actual achievements, however small, i.e. the Space Mountain/TTA refurb or the Kidani Village opening. No matter how trite or insignificant they seem, they do amount to a new resort and a reason to ride an attraction again, no matter how old-school it may be.

[rodkenrich]

It's a great time to be a coaster loving Orlando resident! :cool1: Right about now, I envy you, even though I'm only 4 hours away from Miami.

[ChrisFL]

I am a WDW Exec... Executive P-I-T-A! :)

Actually, I agree with you. They should announce at least one large expansion or addition each year -- something to whet our appetites each season, even if the implementation itself takes a long time. I just tend to think we overlook their actual achievements, however small, i.e. the Space Mountain/TTA refurb or the Kidani Village opening. No matter how trite or insignificant they seem, they do amount to a new resort and a reason to ride an attraction again, no matter how old-school it may be.

I'll wait until Space Mountain/TTA reopen before I make any judgements.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Actually these coasters as well as the Harry Potter area at Universal were planned and started before the recession. Fortunately Universal and Sea World both decided to continue as planned instead of delaying the projects when the recession began! Disney on the other hand had nothing under way (except vacation club units) prior to the recession starting and they haven't planned or started anything since.

Before long Disney will not be a top place in Orlando to visit if they're not careful. :worship:


Absolutely my point!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I am a WDW Exec... Executive P-I-T-A! :)

Actually, I agree with you. They should announce at least one large expansion or addition each year -- something to whet our appetites each season, even if the implementation itself takes a long time. I just tend to think we overlook their actual achievements, however small, i.e. the Space Mountain/TTA refurb or the Kidani Village opening. No matter how trite or insignificant they seem, they do amount to a new resort and a reason to ride an attraction again, no matter how old-school it may be.


Don't kid yourself.......most of us aren't that stupid. Kidani Village - DVC. That is your BIG CASH COW.

We are talking about keeping the parks clean and adding interest.

It is becoming stale.

You guys know the business too well to feed us the baloney about ---- wow, we are improving for your further enjoyment. DVC is your cash cow - THAT's why you are building.....to sell more timeshares --- $$$$$$$$.


in 2010 Universal is going to have a fresh new addition to their park that kids are going to be begging to see! Just how many of those Harry Potter books were sold Mr. Disney Executive? Just how many people saw all thos Harry Potter movies Mr. Disney Executive? Oh yea, you are a loud, high school float with bouncing teen-agers. OOOOOO let's go see THAT - not.

Next, you are going to have something to steal away the coaster addicts. I think you will be surprised how many people will be wandering away from Disney to checkout the NEW stuff....especially when they commercials hit the air.

Now take a look at their park passes - hummmmm.....EASY to go spend a couple of days there. Oh yea, front of the line by just staying there.....front of the line and a NEW COASTER.

Blow all the smoke you want........you are kidding only yourselves. The people who are spending the $$$ will be speaking with their wallets --- perhaps THAT is the only way to make you listen - when we take our $$$ elsewhere. What do you think abot that, Mr. Disney Executive......and at a time you can ill-afford the distraction.


Hey, maybe in the mean time you can come up with something else --- like, Bibidi Bobidi BIMBO - for your enjoyment and only $129.95, you too can dress up like a Disney Executive

[jimmymac]

[

[BayouMickey]

Don't kid yourself.......most of us aren't that stupid. Kidani Village - DVC. That is your BIG CASH COW.

We are talking about keeping the parks clean and adding interest.

It is becoming stale.

You guys know the business too well to feed us the baloney about ---- wow, we are improving for your further enjoyment. DVC is your cash cow - THAT's why you are building.....to sell more timeshares --- $$$$$$$$.


in 2010 Universal is going to have a fresh new addition to their park that kids are going to be begging to see! Just how many of those Harry Potter books were sold Mr. Disney Executive? Just how many people saw all thos Harry Potter movies Mr. Disney Executive? Oh yea, you are a loud, high school float with bouncing teen-agers. OOOOOO let's go see THAT - not.

Next, you are going to have something to steal away the coaster addicts. I think you will be surprised how many people will be wandering away from Disney to checkout the NEW stuff....especially when they commercials hit the air.

Now take a look at their park passes - hummmmm.....EASY to go spend a couple of days there. Oh yea, front of the line by just staying there.....front of the line and a NEW COASTER.

Blow all the smoke you want........you are kidding only yourselves. The people who are spending the $$$ will be speaking with their wallets --- perhaps THAT is the only way to make you listen - when we take our $$$ elsewhere. What do you think abot that, Mr. Disney Executive......and at a time you can ill-afford the distraction.


Hey, maybe in the mean time you can come up with something else --- like, Bibidi Bobidi BIMBO - for your enjoyment and only $129.95, you too can dress up like a Disney Executive

The Harry Potter area is going to get stale fast.. The series is over and that will limit inspiration for new attractions. Plus, except for the niche and fan groups, even the movies aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot.

[jimmymac]

They should announce at least one large expansion or addition each year -- something to whet our appetites each season, even if the implementation itself takes a long time. I just tend to think we overlook their actual achievements, however small, i.e. the Space Mountain/TTA refurb or the Kidani Village opening. No matter how trite or insignificant they seem, they do amount to a new resort and a reason to ride an attraction again, no matter how old-school it may be.[/QUOTE][/


Please tell me you're kidding. You're equating Harry Potter Land and the new coaster, 2 items that make US a better and more interesting place to go with building a new DVC resort??? How does that make WDW more fun to go to?

[Mouseaholic!!!]

The Harry Potter area is going to get stale fast.. The series is over and that will limit inspiration for new attractions. Plus, except for the niche and fan groups, even the movies aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot.


We'll see!

I'm sure the Disney Executives are crossing their fingers. Obviously they are doing little else!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

The Harry Potter area is going to get stale fast.. The series is over and that will limit inspiration for new attractions. Plus, except for the niche and fan groups, even the movies aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot.



Using your idea then means the addition of Finding Nemo characters to the - new submarines in DL, Living Seas in WDW and SW in DL "aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot".

Did you realize your negative works both ways? Well shame on Disney for wasting all that time and not striking while the iron was hot. Now Finding Nemo is all stale, old and out dated.

Let me ask, how many millions of children read the series of Finding Nemo books? .....and watched the trilogy of Finding Nemo hit movies?

[jimmymac]

The Harry Potter area is going to get stale fast.. The series is over and that will limit inspiration for new attractions. Plus, except for the niche and fan groups, even the movies aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot.

Don't bet on it. There will be thousands upon thousands of kids lined up for the rest of the movies and the franchise will continue to rakew in millions. When was the last time thousands of kids camped out for a Disney movie? Hannah Montana? Puh-leeze

[LIDisneyFan]

One problem - as a DVC member, you buy IN because you go often. But if nothing is added or changed of substance, then there is no reason to keep going often, and no reason to buy DVC.

Quite frankly, I am now a FL resident and a DVC owner, and when I go to Orlando, I stay at DVC but spend most of my time (read that money) off property.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

One problem - as a DVC member, you buy IN because you go often. But if nothing is added or changed of substance, then there is no reason to keep going often, and no reason to buy DVC.

Quite frankly, I am now a FL resident and a DVC owner, and when I go to Orlando, I stay at DVC but spend most of my time (read that money) off property.



Wow! This is a true example that something is not right. Listening Mr. Disney Executive?

[BayouMickey]

Using your idea then means the addition of Finding Nemo characters to the - new submarines in DL, Living Seas in WDW and SW in DL "aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot".

Did you realize your negative works both ways? Well shame on Disney for wasting all that time and not striking while the iron was hot. Now Finding Nemo is all stale, old and out dated.

Let me ask, how many millions of children read the series of Finding Nemo books? .....and watched the trilogy of Finding Nemo hit movies?



Don't bet on it. There will be thousands upon thousands of kids lined up for the rest of the movies and the franchise will continue to rakew in millions. When was the last time thousands of kids camped out for a Disney movie? Hannah Montana? Puh-leeze

Understand, I'm not saying this because I'm a fanboi or anything. I just already see it happening.. My son was THE Harry Potter fan. Has all the books (special hardcover editions), All the movies, wore his hair like Harry, got eye-glasses like Harry in essence he looked just like Harry! He was Harry for holloween 4 years! But now when I ask him "Are you excited about the new movie and did you know that US is making a HP themed area?" he just gave me a shrug and went "meh". The same was told to me by friends and relatives, most feel the novelty of it is gone.
As to why Disney's stuff has the staying power? Your guess is as good as mine! Truthfully, I'm not into all the newer Disney stuff, but for some reason I just can't get enough of the classics.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Understand, I'm not saying this because I'm a fanboi or anything. I just already see it happening.. My son was THE Harry Potter fan. Has all the books (special hardcover editions), All the movies, wore his hair like Harry, got eye-glasses like Harry in essence he looked just like Harry! He was Harry for holloween 4 years! But now when I ask him "Are you excited about the new movie and did you know that US is making a HP themed area?" he just gave me a shrug and went "meh". The same was told to me by friends and relatives, most feel the novelty of it is gone.
As to why Disney's stuff has the staying power? Your guess is as good as mine! Truthfully, I'm not into all the newer Disney stuff, but for some reason I just can't get enough of the classics.



So you are into the Pixie dust - DH and I totally get the Magic of Mouseparks.

So what does MK do in a year for gate - 12M? How many of them are repeat guests who come more than once a year?

How many people in the US? Disney hasn't chipped away at the surface of guests who would come to a theme park.


New Coaster - better than those at Cedar Point? US is going to attract an entire new clientele. Coaster people are as hard core as we are about the Mouse. That's all new people to US.

In the mean time - when a DVC owner complains that there is nothing new and they use their DVC room for a hotel room and visit OUTSIDE WDW - there is a problem. Hey - have you looked at the DVC resales? Oh no - that's another topic all together.

You may not like Harry Potter more than tinkerbell - but there are plenty who do.

The bottom line - US is upgrading their experience in a BIG - BIG - BIG way in 2010. New Hot coaster - Harry Potter. Just the curious Disney guests with a week to kill and a desire to do something new will get Disney's attention.


But hey - do nothing Disney - after all, you have to save all that money for the Disney Executive Bonus plan. Wait - an idea - you guys can go to UNIVERSAL STUDIOS for your corporate outings.....you'll get front of the line access!

[BayouMickey]

So you are into the Pixie dust - DH and I totally get the Magic of Mouseparks.

So what does MK do in a year for gate - 12M? How many of them are repeat guests who come more than once a year?

How many people in the US? Disney hasn't chipped away at the surface of guests who would come to a theme park.


New Coaster - better than those at Cedar Point? US is going to attract an entire new clientele. Coaster people are as hard core as we are about the Mouse. That's all new people to US.

In the mean time - when a DVC owner complains that there is nothing new and they use their DVC room for a hotel room and visit OUTSIDE WDW - there is a problem. Hey - have you looked at the DVC resales? Oh no - that's another topic all together.

You may not like Harry Potter more than tinkerbell - but there are plenty who do.

The bottom line - US is upgrading their experience in a BIG - BIG - BIG way in 2010. New Hot coaster - Harry Potter. Just the curious Disney guests with a week to kill and a desire to do something new will get Disney's attention.


But hey - do nothing Disney - after all, you have to save all that money for the Disney Executive Bonus plan. Wait - an idea - you guys can go to UNIVERSAL STUDIOS for your corporate outings.....you'll get front of the line access!

I hope so! I could use the shorter lines lol

[Condorman]

I love how a few of you are championing USO and its new attractions, as if you know with the clairvoyance of Nostradamus that tens of thousands will line up to make these new features slam-dunk hits for decades to come. There will be initial interest, but even so USO will still not pull double-digit business away from WDW. You know it, I know it and the Disney Execs know it. Universal provides a completely different product -- a completely different mindset. People (such as you) who take the side of US, as if to browbeat Disney into submission, were going to go there anyway. People who prefer Disney will continue to come. People who like both will sample a little of each, but won't change their "spending habits" enough to send a message to Disney or Universal.

Don't act like you can predict the future. If you want to play that game, then here's my prediction: USO will see increased attendance and occupany for the first 18 months and then drop back down to its current levels. When the economy picks up, all the people currently visiting WDW will continue to go, and those who stopped will start going again. WDW won't miss a beat and will continue to beat the pants off of USO.

I'll say it one more time... WDW does not have to expand. It's already a juggernaut theme park that surpasses all others in the world. You may disagree, but don't compare it with USO. Other parks may have better aspects, but no park is better in its totality.

No park.

[paulh]

The Harry Potter area is going to get stale fast.. The series is over and that will limit inspiration for new attractions. Plus, except for the niche and fan groups, even the movies aren't going to bring in the crowds as they did in the beginning. It should have been done earlier while the iron was hot.

when was the last mickey mouse film?
Paulh

[movie77]

But they don't HAVE to do more.[/QUOTE]


They don't because they have such a loyal fanbase willing to over look outdated rides and closed exhibits. You wonder when the tipping point will be reached. I'm torn myself, we love going to Disney for the "Magic", but at the sametime I know the parks are really falling behind the times.

[BayouMickey]

when was the last mickey mouse film?
Paulh

Everyday on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse :woohoo:

[Mouseaholic!!!]

But they don't HAVE to do more.


They don't because they have such a loyal fanbase willing to over look outdated rides and closed exhibits. You wonder when the tipping point will be reached. I'm torn myself, we love going to Disney for the "Magic", but at the sametime I know the parks are really falling behind the times.[/QUOTE]




You don't read these threads much, do you.

There is a fair amount of dissatisfaction. Most of it is from the long-timers like my DH and myself. Everyone one of us has a tipping point. Some of us struggle to keep our Rose Colored Glasses on longer than others....some just cannot admit their magic place isn't perfect anymore. But there IS a tipping point.

You will still love it - you will find your pixie dust with your family or friends....or just traveling by yourself so you can do EXACTLY what you wish. In the end, however, you will admit things are not good.

DH and I came to that place last year and 3 Disney trips a year became one. We now find magic ALL OVER the country with our new plan -- to visit every National Park in the country.

Two weeks and about 4 long weekend trips away from Disney. Only one Disney trip for us - DL. WDW was simply too shabby for us last time. Shabby in our faces we could no longer laugh off. To us, DL seems to be better - perhaps because it's closer to the grownups who can just wander in at any time.

Plenty of other places WANT our travel $$'s so we will give it to them. When Disney wakes up, we will be back.


You can only run an empire on an old reputation so long.

[MJMcBride]

It's more and more obvious that Disney is riding on a reputation.

That and Universal and SeaWorld have proven they can't compete with Disney. Until either of them shows any ability to draw crowds from Disney Parks there is no incentive for Disney to respond to new things at those parks.

[manning]

Disney also has continued to adjust perks, like no package delivery to resort rooms (this has been gone a while) and Universal adds things like front of the line access for on-site guests.

I love Disney dearly, but the mouse needs to find its way back home to steal back the magic.

Like study what walt did and adjust accordingly. They have to again learn how to treat the customer. Make them believe they are getting more than their money's worth.

[manning]

double post.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

like study what walt did and adjust accordingly. They have to again learn how to treat the customer. Make them believe they are getting more than their money's worth.


amen!

[rutgers1]

I have never been do Universal before, but I am going this year and I am going again when Harry Potter opens. I teach in a town with a lot of people who have the money to spend on regular vacations, and it is clear that the regular Disney pilgrimages are turning into Disney and Universal pilgrimages. One co-worker is taking her family during "Jersey week" only to go to Universal, which is something that I had never seen before. For some reason, not only Universal, but its hotels, have been getting a TON of great "word of mouth" advertising up here over the past year or two.

With that said, what can Disney do? I am not on the side that says that it is going downhill. I tend to think that people look at one area that is either missing or has diminished and fail to point out another area that has either been created or improved. However, I do think Disney has to do the following:
1) They have to figure out what they are going to do with Pleasure Island and Downtown Disney. It is an area that has a lot of potential, but they are obviously mishandling it....A side reason to fix things is to increase demand for staying at Saratoga Springs, the DVC resort right next store whose owners trade out to other DVC resorts at a much higher rate than people trade in. Right now, there isn't the incentive to stay there that Disney execs thought there'd be.

2) They need to relook at Magic Kingdom and do more to make the themed lands make sense. There is is rhyme or reason to having those polluting cars in Tomorrowland. The current format was all good back when the park opened, but things evolve, and fans are now demanding a more immersing experience. Universal is getting it right with Harry Potter. Disney was on the right path with Animal Kingdom (animal theme/immersion throughout), but for some reason it is still not where it needs to be.

3) They need to make Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios into full day parks. From my seat, each park needs five adult rides and five kid rides to make them a place that I would say all day.

4) They need to stop making the parks pay for every other area of the company that is mismanaged.

[doconeill]

Back about this particular coaster...the article doesn't mention the original date or the new open date (web site still says "Spring 2009")...but I CAN tell you it certainly isn't finished. They only had the track partway up the "signature" hill last Wednesday, and no visible signs of work.

[paulh]

Everyday on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse :woohoo:

film not tv
Paulh

[BayouMickey]

film not tv
Paulh

Doesn't matter it's media and still viewed by the masses.

[Marshypooh]

I'm a bit of a scaredy cat when it comes to super huge, fast coasters, but I think the two new coasters mentioned sound like something alot of people will really like and look forward to. My family are major WDW fans, but we have also visited Busch Gardens and Sea World and enjoyed those two parks very much. Unfortunately, we have never had the opportunity to visit US/IOA yet, but are looking forward to that in the near future. We are all extremely excited about the new Harry Potter land, and that includes my two college-aged daughters.

I don't like to say this because I love WDW soooooo much, but right now I just don't feel overly excited about anything new like I am feeling about Harry Potter. I'm truly disappointed that WDW decided to make the American Idol Experience, rather than a new ride or other Disney related show/attraction. I do like to watch AI on TV, but just not interested in watching that type of show while on vacation. And for me, I would be just as happy with a dark ride as I would be with a larger, thrill-type ride. I remember a couple of years ago being so excited watching EE being built at AK, anticipating what Toy Story Mania would be like, and even thinking that the Nemo attraction at Epcot sounded like a very cute and fun experience for all ages. I love Space Mountain just the way it is, but at the same time I am looking forward to the new experience when the refurb is complete. However, as of right now, that is the only thing at WDW that compares to the excitement I have for Harry Potter. I just wish Disney would make even one major announcement that would bring back those wonderful feelings again, especially for the 40th anniversary.

[Padrepride]

Sea World and Universal can go duel with their huge coasters by themselves because over here on the West coast, Six Flags has built God knows how many coasters and yet Disneyland and even DCA draw more crowds than Six Flags Magic Mountain.

Due to this fabulous market, Disney isn't going to empty their pockets on their theme parks. The hottest commodities Disney has to offer right now IMO, are Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers and I really don't want to see them invade the Disney parks in any capacity. Right now, Disney just needs to find cost-effective ways to improve their parks, thus keeping us happy.

Priority one should be maintaining everything to a high standard such as paint, lighting, and general maintenance. Cost-effective improvements should be "plussing" some rides such as STAR TOURS which I know everyone has been waiting for for 10+ years. We as Disney fans really can't expect Disney to make any grand improvements or expansions until the economy comes about. Good thing the California Adventure expansion got underway. Universal's taking a gamble on this 'Pottyland' although I think it's fairly safe bet to do well. Does it have lasting power? Only time will tell.

[ReelBigFish419]

Seaworld is building something that really isn't anything new while Universal is really going out on a limb with some of their ride's new elements. As for Disney, they may be able to fight back with a coaster but I think the Space refurb will help keep them up for quite a bit against Manta and Universal's coaster.

[jlewisinsyr]

We as Disney fans really can't expect Disney to make any grand improvements or expansions until the economy comes about. Good thing the California Adventure expansion got underway. Universal's taking a gamble on this 'Pottyland' although I think it's fairly safe bet to do well. Does it have lasting power? Only time will tell.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, smart companies expand in down markets because it is cheaper. Disney is no where near any sort of financial ruin and investing money in their parks isn't going to impact their war chest.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Seaworld is building something that really isn't anything new while Universal is really going out on a limb with some of their ride's new elements. As for Disney, they may be able to fight back with a coaster but I think the Space refurb will help keep them up for quite a bit against Manta and Universal's coaster.



Space Mountain makes me giggle. The coasters Sea World and Universal are building will make me scream until I burst a blood vessel. <--- of course I gave these crazy rides up years ago but don't tell anybody.

It's like comparing mild salsa with TERMINATOR salsa - NO comparison.


I personall LOVE SM at DL (hopefully they won't cheep-out SM at WDW). I know coaster people who call SM a kiddy ride.

I don't think the SW or US/IO people are shaking in their boots because SM will re-open later this year.

[Condorman]

I don't think the SW or US/IO people are shaking in their boots because SM will re-open later this year.

And WDW people are not shaking in their boots about either coaster going into US or SW.

IN 2007...

MK saw 17,060,000 visitors.
USO saw 6,200,000 visitors.
IOA saw 5,430,000 visitors.
SW saw 5,800,000 visitors.

That's just the MK! That doesn't even include Ep, DHS or AK which altogether added another 30,000,000 visitors.

And the winner is?

Ding-ding-ding!

Uh-huh. That's what I thought.

[jimmymac]

And WDW people are not shaking in their boots about either coaster going into US or SW.

IN 2007...

MK saw 17,060,000 visitors.
USO saw 6,200,000 visitors.
IOA saw 5,430,000 visitors.
SW saw 5,800,000 visitors.

That's just the MK! That doesn't even include Ep, DHS or AK which altogether added another 30,000,000 visitors.

And the winner is?

Ding-ding-ding!

Uh-huh. That's what I thought.


Yeah, but attendance and per capita spending were down last year at WDW. So fewer people are going and those that are going are spending a lot less money. The new attractions at US will only exacerbate this. I think a lot of people with start doing split stays - 4 days at WDW, 2 days at US, 1 day at Seaworld. You can't beat US front-of-the-line privilege

[SassyCat]

What an interesting discussion this has been.

In 2008, I went to US for the first time since 1995. As a 10 year old in 1995, I really enjoyed the park and was excited to go back. This time, I was really disappointed. I felt the park left a lot to be desired. It was dirty, dingy looking, and I encountered a lot of rude employees (I'm not saying this is always the case, but it was my experience). There was just not THAT much to do, and we basically rode everything there was. I have to admit that I am not really into thrill rides (EE is about as wild as I like). I am still mad at DH for making me go on the mummy, btw. The only rides I really enjoyed at US were ET (I know it is cheesy but I have loved it since I was 5) and the Men in Black ride. Anyway, the park felt to me very half-hearted and had none of the magic I like to immerse myself in while in Orlando. I still had fun there, but we decided not to go back on our past trip this year or on our next three trips we have planned for the next year to Disney.

IOA was not nearly as dingy or dirty as US. I did like it better, but it was not a place I have a great desire to return to. On the day we went it was wet and nasty weather and DH had the beginning of a cold so he did not want to ride any water rides which unfortunately there are a lot of at IOA (they all looked fun, btw). I did LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the spider-man ride. Hehe! I would rather go IOA then US, but it is not a place that I am dying to go back to. I would be interested in checking it out again once Harry Potter land opens (I am a fan). But I don't see DH and I going there often at all.

I am a kid at heart (well, I look like one too but that's another story), and I just love everything about being at WDW. I love staying on property, going to the parks, doing special activities, and eating at the restaurants. To me, disney immerses you in a different "world" and it is a true experience. I'm not saying WDW is perfect by ANY means (of course there is going to be some bad food, some rude employees, some trash, etc), but overall I just am so happy when I am there. For DH and I, there is always something we haven't done before - whether it is a certain ride, a restaurant, class, show, etc. That's what I love about it - there is so much to offer. Most people are friendly, I have enjoyed almost all of the food I've eaten, and it is pretty clean. I guess I am just more suited to Disney than I am US. Sorry I have rambled on...:yay:

I really don't think US will ever become before WDW. There are not as many rides, shows, or places to eat (in the actual parks, but I am also not a fan of the citywalk at all). There is just not THAT much to do there - not an entire vacation's worth. I think more people might do split stays though. I could maybe see more couples going there, but I think families with children are going to continue to spend a majority of their time at WDW. WDW is a much more family friendly environment, IMO. Disney is just so much bigger. I'm sure Disney's numbers will continue to go down because of all the crap going on now, but I really doubt that US will meet them or rise above them.

[Padrepride]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, smart companies expand in down markets because it is cheaper. Disney is no where near any sort of financial ruin and investing money in their parks isn't going to impact their war chest.

What I'm thinking is that Disney is going to pour money into the more dependable movie/tween market more so than the parks.

[movie77]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, smart companies expand in down markets because it is cheaper. Disney is no where near any sort of financial ruin and investing money in their parks isn't going to impact their war chest.

I agree totally labor and materials should be a lot cheaper now than they were in 05-07 and cheaper than they probably will be 3-4 years down the road. Now is the time to look at things like additional rides, transportation expansion, how about a new country at EPCOT? Building new DVC sites is not an investment in the parks. There has been an empty building in EPCOT for what 3-4 years now? With the price of admission that's crazy. Maybe if more people like the poster above cut back the "suits" will start to get it. I have a feeling WDW is funding a lot of the poor performing parts of disney.

[paulh]

Doesn't matter it's media and still viewed by the masses.

would wait till the film franchises finish before they start on the HP cartoons
Paulh

[ChrisFL]

I could maybe see more couples going there, but I think families with children are going to continue to spend a majority of their time at WDW. WDW is a much more family friendly environment, IMO. Disney is just so much bigger. I'm sure Disney's numbers will continue to go down because of all the crap going on now, but I really doubt that US will meet them or rise above them.

Maybe small children will keep going to WDW since that seems to be their target market these days, but older kids will want to go to US

[Condorman]

Maybe small children will keep going to WDW since that seems to be their target market these days, but older kids will want to go to US

And that's the difference. Older kids, teens and adults can take themselves to US. Small children cannot take themselves to WDW; they must go with adults, thereby creating greater attendance numbers and generating more revenue. Disney FTW!

[jimmymac]

Doesn't matter it's media and still viewed by the masses.


And this generates how much income for the mother ship?

[Mouseaholic!!!]

OMG OMG -

I was watching the travel channel last weekend with my DH and out of nowhere - on came......"most outrageous coasters in America".

#1 - Kingda Kah

THIS is the coaster that Universal Studios is supposed to surpass.

ZERO - 128 MPG IN 3.5 SECONDS ----- who said wait until Space Mountain opens. Space mountain is a kiddie ride for these guys.

There was someone who was on his 100th ride - one of those crazy coaster guy - he wears goggles to protect his eyes.


Anyway - these coaster people are going to FLOOD Universal when this coaster opens.....they are NUTS NUTS NUTS


Space Mountain, EE, Splash, RRC, TOT ----- these are kiddie rides to these guys.

Those coasters are NUTS!

Ok....I was impressed - won't ever ride them.....probably would freak out just WATCHING them....but impressed.

There was one where you get it sitting up....they lie back with your feet dangling and you ride in that position.....facing up......facing down...inversions.....corkscrews.....twirlies <--- my word.

Universal Studios will bring their market into a whole new level!!!!

[Condorman]

...these coaster people are going to FLOOD Universal when this coaster opens...

Really? All 472 of them? And in one weekend, you say?

My goodness, why did Walt Disney even bother to dream?

Universal Studios will bring their market into a whole new level!!!!

I want you to stand perfectly straight with your arms at your sides. Now, open your left hand so that it is parallel to the floor. Then, lift your right arm over your head and open that hand so it is parallel to the ceiling.

The hand below your waist is where Universal Studios currently is and always will be.

The hand above your head... Well, aw shucks, you get the point, don't ya? ;)

[doconeill]

Kingda Ka almost ripped itself apart no long after it opened...

[jlewisinsyr]

I want you to stand perfectly straight with your arms at your sides. Now, open your left hand so that it is parallel to the floor. Then, lift your right arm over your head and open that hand so it is parallel to the ceiling.

The hand below your waist is where Universal Studios currently is and always will be.

The hand above your head... Well, aw shucks, you get the point, don't ya? ;)

I'll list two names for you...

Kodak
Chrysler

What do these two companies have in common? They failed to innovate, manage and execute products that exceeded customer expectations when others started to eat away at their businesses.

Disney is an amazing company, and I have full faith they are making some very strategic decisions (I'm not against their recent restructuring), but they also have made some severe follies. One should never assume just because a company is number 1 today, that they will even exist in 10 years. Much can and does change.

[doconeill]

I'll list two names for you...

Kodak
Chrysler

What do these two companies have in common? They failed to innovate, manage and execute products that exceeded customer expectations when others started to eat away at their businesses.

I do think these were pretty different situations. Chrysler had a problem making a product IN THEIR FIELD that people wanted.

Kodak still made what a lot of people considered the tops in their field - film, at least for amateur use. They did lose some share when Fuji came in full force, but Fuji still was only a fraction of the market. They tried to make innovations (disc camera, Advantix) but they just didn't win over consumers. But they got caught by a major shift in the whole industry, AWAY from film. How does a film company survive that? They tried to shift with it - but they had a LOT more competition to contend with then, since now all the companies that made use of their products now were their competitors...

[jlewisinsyr]

I do think these were pretty different situations. Chrysler had a problem making a product IN THEIR FIELD that people wanted.

Kodak still made what a lot of people considered the tops in their field - film, at least for amateur use. They did lose some share when Fuji came in full force, but Fuji still was only a fraction of the market. They tried to make innovations (disc camera, Advantix) but they just didn't win over consumers. But they got caught by a major shift in the whole industry, AWAY from film. How does a film company survive that? They tried to shift with it - but they had a LOT more competition to contend with then, since now all the companies that made use of their products now were their competitors...

You are correct in both situations, but you are not considering the macro level from the top, neither company fit their market properly, one tried and failed, the other just didn't try. They both had management that failed to react and change quick enough.

Disney is a fairly slow moving ship, and it could definately be left behind to its more nimble competitors, or those it doesn't deem as a threat currently.

In short, this wasn't a lesson about what companies did and did not do right, rather it was the macro effects that companies, even the strongest can and do fail and fall to smaller or more powerful competitors. In short, never say never.

[Uncleromulus]

I think these mega thrill costers appeal to a somewhat small market...nice for those who like them, but certainly not about to cause the downfall of WDW.

[jimmymac]

I think these mega thrill costers appeal to a somewhat small market...nice for those who like them, but certainly not about to cause the downfall of WDW.


And the Harry Potter portion. Is that too a "somewhat small market"??? Hint: 500 million copies sold. Not American Idol, I will admit. The other guys are innoventing, WDW is recycling old ideas

[jimmymac]

Really? All 472 of them? And in one weekend, you say

I believe US attendance last year was 11.6 million. I'm not quite sure where the 472 figure comes from. Extensive research, I'm sure:rotfl2:

[Condorman]

Really? All 472 of them? And in one weekend, you say

I believe US attendance last year was 11.6 million. I'm not quite sure where the 472 figure comes from. Extensive research, I'm sure

Extensive research indeed. You read my previous post and added my numbers together. Thanks for proving my point. Now allow me to educate you further. Please, take a seat.

Are you implying that all 11.6 million are coaster enthusiasts? Does that include the 4-5 million children, many of whom are too short to ride a mega-coaster? Does that include the mobility-challenged or those with general health issues? Your presumptuousnes hints that all 11.6 million people will be able to ride said attraction, and you would be incorrect. Only a fraction would, and contrary to Mouseaholic's depisal of all-things Disney, those few will not be storming the gates on opening day thereby forcing WDW to shut theirs.

You guys are really reaching on that one.

Harry Potter will be an instant success. That is precisely why they cut up the last film into two parts: to stretch out the appeal and coincide them with the opening at USO. However, USO doesn't have 1/10 the attractions WDW has. It has no where to go but up. Also, I've seen the footprint of the WWOHP as well as its current construction. It is the equivalent of Lights, Motors, Action! It can hold 5,000-7500 people, no more. It's a land -- not a park. It will be successful for USO. It will not be detrimental to anyone else.

BTW, 11.6 million is approximately 68% of the Magic Kingdom's attendance per annum -- just the MK -- not Epcot, AK or DHS. USO is not now, nor will it ever be considered competition in the eyes of WDW, not by Disney, not by Disney's standards and not by anyone able to perform simple arithmetic. I suggest you do your homework and stop looking over the shoulder of the theme park next to you. Your comments are personal opinion, whereas mine are common facts. If you're unhappy with WDW, stop visiting there and stop posting here. But then I suppose defending the losing side of an argument is considered cheap therapy to some? Enjoy USO. You'll be one of the many few.

Class dismissed! :rotfl2:

[BayouMickey]

For every coaster ethusiast that bypasses Disney, that's 5-30 seconds off my wait time, that adds up! GO GO Universal!

[skier_pete]

Condorman,

Thank God someone else on one of these threads is rational! Disney has chosen to stay out of mega-coaster business because they target Families...age 4 to 84. Building a single thrill-ride at Disney World will not change the demographic. It's why they focus on things like TSMM and American Idol. Even though I can't stand AI, and would rather have a thrill ride, they are looking for things with broad appeal.

Now, HP certainly has broad appeal, there no denying that, I'm sure Disney would have loved to get the rights, but they deemed it too expensive. As I said in the HP thread....I love HP, but if you think HP is going to adversely affect Disney, you are mistaken. Even if you assume a 10 % bump in attendance at Universal...and understand that Universal would DROOL at a 10 % bump...if you assumed every-one of those days was taken directly from Disney, that would be an attendance drop of Disney of less than 2 %. But then, think of all the people that would travel to Florida just to see Harry Potter land. Hey, those people drove/flew down, and now spent a couple days at Universal. Harry Potter land will probably cover about 2-4 hours of your vacation...now what. Hey...Disney World is just down the street, let's spend a few days there!

So guess what folks, the fact that Universal got HP will likely result in a net growth of tourism to central Florida...which will actually HELP WDW! WDW took care of the "threat" of Universal back in the '90s when they expanded to become a true week-long destination resort. Until Universal becomes more than just a day-park...there is no threat. Why do you think Universal is giving away week-long passes for the price of a day...because that gets you back for another day or two...no-one...and I mean NO-ONE is spending 7 days going to Uni/IOA.

Sorry for going on so long, but I get really irritated by the lack of common sense that comes along when people are trying to tear down the Disney Parks. Believe me, I don't agree with everything they do. (I think eliminating Pleasure Island was stupid beyond belief.) But not building a mega-coaster? It's not their market. It's not Sea-world's market either...that's why in 2007 when I went to Sea World I rode Kraken mid-day in May with about 5 other people. The shows were SRO, but no-one was riding the thrill rides. Journey to Atlantis had no-one in line either. OF any of them, it seems to me the Sea World is the dumb one. Uni should definitely keep up with the top thrill technology...that is their niche, and it gets people there.

SkierPete

[jimmymac]

[


Actually, I didn't add your numbers together, but I wasn't aware that you were the sole source of information on park attendance. I must assume then that you helped Al Gore create the Internet


Are you implying that all 11.6 million are coaster enthusiasts? Does that include the 4-5 million children, many of whom are too short to ride a mega-coaster? Does that include the mobility-challenged or those with general health issues? Your presumptuousnes hints that all 11.6 million people will be able to ride said attraction, and you would be incorrect.[/COLOR]

I made no such implication. I was just curious where the 472 came from

You guys are really reaching on that one.

Harry Potter will be an instant success. That is precisely why they cut up the last film into two parts: to stretch out the appeal and coincide them with the opening at USO. However, USO doesn't have 1/10 the attractions WDW has. It has no where to go but up. Also, I've seen the footprint of the WWOHP as well as its current construction. It is the equivalent of Lights, Motors, Action! It can hold 5,000-7500 people, no more. It's a land -- not a park. It will be successful for USO. It will not be detrimental to anyone else.

BTW, 11.6 million is approximately 68% of the Magic Kingdom's attendance per annum -- just the MK -- not Epcot, AK or DHS. USO is not now, nor will it ever be considered competition in the eyes of WDW, not by Disney, not by Disney's standards and not by anyone able to perform simple arithmetic. I suggest you do your homework and stop looking over the shoulder of the theme park next to you. Your comments are personal opinion, whereas mine are common facts. If you're unhappy with WDW, stop visiting there and stop posting here. But then I suppose defending the losing side of an argument is considered cheap therapy to some? Enjoy USO. You'll be one of the many few.

Class dismissed! :rotfl2:[/QUOTE]

MY, my. methinks ye protest too much there. Is the 472 a "common fact?" I wasn't defending any side of any argument. I just think that with the new additions to US / IOA, a lot of people might just be tempted to change their plans - instead of 7 days at WDW, perhaps 4 at WDW, 2 days at Universal and 1 day at Seaworld. That's probably how we'll do our next Florida trip. The hotels at US btw are 4 star hotels at 4 star prices, not 3 star hotels at 5 star prices. And if you actually think that Disney quality hasn't slipped in the last few years, you haven't been going to the same parks / hotels that I have een. And lastly I really do admire your tolerance for those who don't agree with your point of view

[Mouseaholic!!!]

For every coaster ethusiast that bypasses Disney, that's 5-30 seconds off my wait time, that adds up! GO GO Universal!


NO WAY Disney could compete in the Coaster Wars - they don't really have any thrill-ride coasters......they are fun-ride coasters (which are perfect for me).

Problem is - there are many people who WILL want to try this coaster and the new one at Seaworld (photos of the coaster are on the Orlando paper's website today).


Did you see last quarter's earnings for Disney - they cannot afford to give away one penny. They also cannot afford to do NOTHING for years and expect to keep the interest of everyone.

The loss of only one day in a week's vacation is BIG $$$ if too many do it. New coasters and Harry Potter --- they are bound to loose guests.

I'll say to you - what I said to the people who were telling us Disney Parks are crowded (January - March) and Disney is not suffering from the poor economy........I'll wait and see. Call me a liar, call me stupid, call me all the names people have called me here. Sadly, I was right again about earnings. I'm not brilliant - I'm not an economist - I just watch the news with an open mind.

Disney will survive - but if they stop improving - will they survive 10 or 15 years from now. Look at their earnings from their movies!!! My GOD who is surprised -their movies this year STINK. How long can they afford to produce loosers. Thank goodness they have Pixar so they can remember what a good movie looks like!

Ok, ramble done. I'll wait right here and we can chat again when Harry Potter opens....and we will checkout the earnings statements for Disney and US. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong if the numbers prove it.

[BayouMickey]

NO WAY Disney could compete in the Coaster Wars - they don't really have any thrill-ride coasters......they are fun-ride coasters (which are perfect for me).

Problem is - there are many people who WILL want to try this coaster and the new one at Seaworld (photos of the coaster are on the Orlando paper's website today).


Did you see last quarter's earnings for Disney - they cannot afford to give away one penny. They also cannot afford to do NOTHING for years and expect to keep the interest of everyone.

The loss of only one day in a week's vacation is BIG $$$ if too many do it. New coasters and Harry Potter --- they are bound to loose guests.

I'll say to you - what I said to the people who were telling us Disney Parks are crowded (January - March) and Disney is not suffering from the poor economy........I'll wait and see. Call me a liar, call me stupid, call me all the names people have called me here. Sadly, I was right again about earnings. I'm not brilliant - I'm not an economist - I just watch the news with an open mind.

Disney will survive - but if they stop improving - will they survive 10 or 15 years from now. Look at their earnings from their movies!!! My GOD who is surprised -their movies this year STINK. How long can they afford to produce loosers. Thank goodness they have Pixar so they can remember what a good movie looks like!

Ok, ramble done. I'll wait right here and we can chat again when Harry Potter opens....and we will checkout the earnings statements for Disney and US. I'll be happy to admit I was wrong if the numbers prove it.

Hey! I'm with ya! Have fun over at US! Like you said, Disney will survive, so yeah, all you extreme coaster enthusiasts go to US! I figure if 10-20 of you bypass Disney that's like 5-10 minutes off my wait time!

[Uncleromulus]

Jimmymac: As others have said, Potter will be an instant success. The talk of the town!! People will fall all over themselves to see it--to even say that they THOUGHT about seeing it. Heck-I might even stop in to see it--been 5 years since we've been to Universal and we'll probably be ready for a new way to spend a couple of hours.
But my guess is that it won't have much staying power beyond a few years.

As for the coasters-Disney has apparently shown no interest in these mega coasters and doubt they'll care much about them attracting anyone away from WDW.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Hey! I'm with ya! Have fun over at US! Like you said, Disney will survive, so yeah, all you extreme coaster enthusiasts go to US! I figure if 10-20 of you bypass Disney that's like 5-10 minutes off my wait time!

Hey -

10 - 20 minutes off your wait time = less people in the parks....Isn't Disney suffering enoug right now (46% downturn in profit last quarter --- that's 46%!).

I'm not sure you really want to wish downturns on Disney.

They had plenty of layoffs after the first quarter results and the numbers were better than the second quarter. Perhaps we can all load ourselves into the rides ---- save Disney some payroll!!!

Be careful what you wish for with quiet parks!

[yitbos96bb]

And the Harry Potter portion. Is that too a "somewhat small market"??? Hint: 500 million copies sold. Not American Idol, I will admit. The other guys are innoventing, WDW is recycling old ideas

I would argue Harry Potter is MUCH MUCH more popular than American Idol. 30 million viewers is impressive, BUT its nothing compared to the number of Books Rowling has sold... and the number who have read is probably much higher.

[doconeill]

I would argue Harry Potter is MUCH MUCH more popular than American Idol. 30 million viewers is impressive, BUT its nothing compared to the number of Books Rowling has sold... and the number who have read is probably much higher.

Just FYI - HP book sales does not translate directly to number of fans, because there were SEVEN books. So I would at least divide that number by 7 to get a sense of the book fans.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Condorman,

Thank God someone else on one of these threads is rational!

Now, HP certainly has broad appeal, there no denying that, I'm sure Disney would have loved to get the rights, but they deemed it too expensive. As I said in the HP thread....

So guess what folks, the fact that Universal got HP will likely result in a net growth of tourism to central Florida...which will actually HELP WDW! WDW took care of the "threat" of Universal back in the '90s when they expanded to become a true week-long destination resort. Until Universal becomes more than just a day-park...there is no threat. Why do you think Universal is giving away week-long passes for the price of a day...because that gets you back for another day or two...no-one...and I mean NO-ONE is spending 7 days going to Uni/IOA.

Sorry for going on so long, but I get really irritated by the lack of common sense that comes along when people are trying to tear down the Disney Parks. Believe me, I don't agree with everything they do. (I think eliminating Pleasure Island was stupid beyond belief.) But not building a mega-coaster? It's not their market. It's not Sea-world's market either...that's why in 2007 when I went to Sea World I rode Kraken mid-day in May with about 5 other people. The shows were SRO, but no-one was riding the thrill rides. Journey to Atlantis had no-one in line either. OF any of them, it seems to me the Sea World is the dumb one. Uni should definitely keep up with the top thrill technology...that is their niche, and it gets people there.

SkierPete

Your first paragraph isn't very nice.

The second paragraph is a bit off. Disney didn't even have the chance to bid on HP. The Universal negotiator met with JP Rowling and they hit it off to the degree that the deal was done without opening the bidding. Eisner was extremely upset as he desperately wanted the franchise (rightly so) Rowling didn't want to go through that type of negotiation/bidding war.

You can dismiss Universal as a day park if you choose but your own rational logic is showing some armor chinks, IMO. Remember the news is that WDW is discounting just as much as Universal in this economy AND should Universal somehow end up with Sea World then WDW has real problems, logically thinking, that is.
pirate:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Universal can never be what Disney is....Disney is just too huge.

But that doesn't change the fact that Universal has been and will continue to steal Disney customers. There are true Disney fanatics out there that used to spend 7 nights on Disney property that have never tried out Universal. Whether it's the Rip Ride Rocket coaster (that has the potential to be the best roller coaster ever constructed!) or whether its the Harry Potter Land, there are going to be a lot of Disney fans coming to Orlando that say let's just get the 4-day ticket this time and spend the rest of the time over at Universal (and Sea World). And they're going to find out that there's a whole bunch of cool attractions at USO, IOA and SW!

Disney execs are lucky that they can just point to the recession and blame all the decreases on that rather than account for their failures to keep up. PI was profitable but the lack of revenue from the island is not seen because the recession is to blame for the decreased earnings. And as the recession concludes and the numbers go back up again, the failure to keep up is going to also be invisibly lost in the increases. What a great excuse the recession has been for Disney management!

BobK/Orlando

[FlightlessDuck]

Apples and oranges.

The two parks aren't the same thing. They appeal to different people at different times.

Universal will continue to build innovative thrill rides.

WDW will continue to create family friendly immersive ride experiences. WDW will not build many thrill rides. It's not part of it theme. It will focus on stuff like Toy Story Mania and Soarin'.

Look at Sea World. When I was there as a child, it was a park dedicated to water shows and sea animals. Coasters? It has coasters now? That's just weird.

[justskip70003]

i would love to add my opinion on this.

first and formost let me say i am so in love with WDW i have decided to move to lake buena vista fl. 4.8 miles away from epcot. i have lived in tampa which gave me time to go to busch gardens (annual pass holder) anytime i wanted to. i went ALOT! i also went to sea world (same annual pass as busch gardens). i went to universal (annual pass holder) ALOT too. now heres the funny thing, the whole time i lived in tampa... 40 minutes away from WDW i only went to WDW 1 day. why i have no clue???

do i think since busch gardens has 5 huge coasters it will ever compete with disney... NO
do i think that uso/ioa has a ton of coasters, the coolest ride ever (spiderman) that new coaster, harry potter and all his lil friends land will ever compete with disney... NO
do i think seaworld with kraken and manta. with my fav animal in the whole world dolphins, and the biggest diva in all of the theme parks shamu will ever compete with disney... even if shamu jumped 42 semis while on fire and had dynomite shoved in a really uncomfortable oriface would sea world ever even come close to disneyworld.

disneyworld is not about ground breaking mega coaster, its not about thrill rides and its not about dopey whales doing tricks. its about the feelings you get. the way they make you feel special when your there. its about when you watch wishes with your kids or significant other how it makes you feel like a dream. disney is about the dream. taking all accounts of reality and throwing it over the fence. it is the happiest place on earth. period end of story!

mega coasters... HA your gonna have to go alot further than that to compete with uncle walt! WDW reigns supreme over all. all other theme parks bow and will do anything in there power to try and create what disney did. but they will fall short.

oh and another thing for you lil number crunchers out there. disney being down 46%... the whole world is down 46%:goodvibes disney is right where it wants to be, ON TOP and will always be on top. why... CAUSE ITS THAT DARN GOOD!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[schmitty]

Lol this counting Disney out is hilarious. Universal adds 1 new roller coaster and a new land with 1 new ride. First thing they do in 10 years and people are saying its going to turn Disney into a barren wasteland. SeaWorld is getting more people into its park than Universal. Disney has done Soarin, Expedition Everest, Mission Space, Toy Story Mania. You can also put on Spaceship Earth and Space Mountain with the huge refurbs that they had. Compare Disney's 6 big ticket attractions to Universals 2 and its obvious to see Disney does alot more. If I put in all the smaller ride additions and show changes it would be even more lopsided in Disneys favor.

[ChrisFL]

Lol this counting Disney out is hilarious. Universal adds 1 new roller coaster and a new land with 1 new ride. First thing they do in 10 years and people are saying its going to turn Disney into a barren wasteland. SeaWorld is getting more people into its park than Universal. Disney has done Soarin, Expedition Everest, Mission Space, Toy Story Mania. You can also put on Spaceship Earth and Space Mountain with the huge refurbs that they had. Compare Disney's 6 big ticket attractions to Universals 2 and its obvious to see Disney does alot more. If I put in all the smaller ride additions and show changes it would be even more lopsided in Disneys favor.

First thing they do in 10 years??? Where have you been? Since IOA opened, they've added MIB, an incredible attraction that competely blows Buzz out of the water. They've added The Mummy, highly rated by many theme park organizations and polls, Shrek 4D, Jimmy Neutron, Fear Factor Live (its still better than that joke of a show they're calling Stitch's SuperSonic Celebration), Storm Force and Seuss Trolley Train ride at IOA...and they're putting massive $$$ into Harry Potter, it's going to be a LOT more than "just one new ride"

So Disney made an exact copy of a DCA ride in Soarin', could not even bother to change the film at all....has a large rollercoaster with a massive AA that doesn't work, Mission:Space, a ride so intense that it left a high amount sick and worse, so bad they had to make a "green version" and a game that is now coming out in 3D on the Wii, so people can get nearly the same experience at home.

[minnie61650]

I have a friend who is a Cedar Point addict and he can't wait to try the new Universal Studios coaster. It's supposed to beat anything Cedar Point has.

I highly doubt that.

Take a look at Cedar Point's 17 coasters.

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/park/rides/coasters/index.cfm

Click on the photo of one the coasters and take a vitural ride.

Sea world and or Univeral Studios can never compete in the coaster dept. with Cedar Point.

Just as Cedar Point, Sea World and or Universal Studios can never compete with Disney in true in depth ride themeing and overall themeing.

JMHO

[ChrisFL]

Just as Cedar Point, Sea World and or Universal Studios can never compete with Disney in true in depth ride themeing and overall themeing.

JMHO

I disagree, especially if Disney keeps lowering their standards here and Universal keeps increasing theirs as they have been.

Then again thats just what TWDC itself chooses to do, Tokyo DisneySea (not owned by Disney) completely outdoes any park in the world in theming and quality, yet we don't see anything remotely close to that from TWDC here.

Many of the elements of Universal's recent parks and resorts are much more like DisneySea than what Disney itself has done.

[Condorman]

Many of the elements of Universal's recent parks and resorts are much more like DisneySea than what Disney itself has done.

Name one thing of Universal's that remotely resembles anything from Disneysea.

[ChrisFL]

Name one thing of Universal's that remotely resembles anything from Disneysea.

Wow, that's not even a challenge...

Portofino Bay Hotel:

http://www.conventionforum.com/venues/Images/Portofino%20Bay%20Hotel.jpg

Hotel Miracosta (TDS):

http://www.jtcent.com/disneysea/medharbor/images/medmsc055.jpg

Sindbad attractions:

Eighth Voyage of Sindbad:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2345545483_e9f79668d4.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/69/155604592_848d526108.jpg?v=0


Sindbad's Storybook Voyage (TDS):
http://land.allears.net/blogs/jackspence/Sinbad%2001a.jpg


So those are the direct comparisons...of course there's a lot more places where the intricate theming of IOA matches that of TDS:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3405/3328283009_35e8bc0ccc.jpg?v=0
http://www.themeparkcritic.com/Uploads/39/IOAPortofEntry.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/orlando/1/0/l/3/ioa22a.jpg

http://www.wdwinfo.com/universal/Photos/Jurassic-Park-Discovery-Cen.jpg




Realize that these opened 2 full years before TDS did, but as far as comparisons, there are definite reasons WHY Universal has some very similar attractions, it goes back to all of those laid off imagineers in 1994-95 who needed to find employment.

Universal was happy to hire them and continue their work on big projects that Eisner and Co. decided to abandon for TWDC in favor of the sheer abundance of quality we started to find in DCA and Dino-Rama and Disney Studios Paris. Luckily for Disney, they don't own Tokyo and we are able to see what true talent and large budgets can create from Disney's imagineers, or those who still work for Disney after DisneySea was built at least (not many).

Of course IOA and many of Universal's newer attractions are attracting a different market but just because it isn't all made to be enjoyed by 2-8 year olds doesn't mean it's less quality.

[Condorman]

I'm just curious why you're always bashing Disney? I have no doubt you spent a good half-hour scouring the net for those photos, but unless you've been to Tokyo (I think you have, I know I have) then you'd also admit that TDS is infinitely better-themed, managed and maintained than anything in Universal's arsenal. Heck, even Disney's, for that matter.

Still, you boast about TDS being the "most beautiful" park in the world, and then in the same sentence say that TDS ripped off USO? C'mon, man, make up your mind.

TDS alone sees a higher attendance per annum than USO and IoA combined. And if you know anything about USO and IoA, you'd know those same imagineers who were fired by Eisner after AK opened took their ideas and went on to design Dueling Dragons et al.

Seems to me like USO has become the trash bin of the theme park world.

Enjoy.

[ChrisFL]

I'm just curious why you're always bashing Disney? I have no doubt you spent a good half-hour scouring the net for those photos, but unless you've been to Tokyo (I think you have, I know I have) then you'd also admit that TDS is infinitely better-themed, managed and maintained than anything in Universal's arsenal. Heck, even Disney's, for that matter.

Still, you boast about TDS being the "most beautiful" park in the world, and then in the same sentence say that TDS ripped off USO? C'mon, man, make up your mind.

TDS alone sees a higher attendance per annum than USO and IoA combined. And if you know anything about USO and IoA, you'd know those same imagineers who were fired by Eisner after AK opened took their ideas and went on to design Dueling Dragons et al.

Seems to me like USO has become the trash bin of the theme park world.

Enjoy.


Yes, I've been to every Disney park besides Paris, I've seen first hand the astounding quality and theming that went into DisneySea and I have seen NOTHING recently from TWDC in the rest of their parks that even comes close to it....but IOA does.

Did I say TDS ripped off USO, not at all, I merely stated that if anyone was to think that, that USO opened those same parts first and explained the reason why.

It wasn't copying anything as much as 1 set of theme park designers split off after starting the same project and came up with their own versions...yet somehow you can't conceive that Universal is capable of beating Disney quality in the parks this side of Tokyo? Why cant TWDC build here what OLC paid them to do in Tokyo???

I'm talking about theming quality, you asked me to come up with things that "remotely resembles disneysea" and I came up with some...I show evidence they have things close to TDS in theming, you say they're the "trash bin of the theme park world"....amazing.

[schmitty]

First thing they do in 10 years??? Where have you been? Since IOA opened, they've added MIB, an incredible attraction that competely blows Buzz out of the water. They've added The Mummy, highly rated by many theme park organizations and polls, Shrek 4D, Jimmy Neutron, Fear Factor Live (its still better than that joke of a show they're calling Stitch's SuperSonic Celebration), Storm Force and Seuss Trolley Train ride at IOA...and they're putting massive $$$ into Harry Potter, it's going to be a LOT more than "just one new ride"

So Disney made an exact copy of a DCA ride in Soarin', could not even bother to change the film at all....has a large rollercoaster with a massive AA that doesn't work, Mission:Space, a ride so intense that it left a high amount sick and worse, so bad they had to make a "green version" and a game that is now coming out in 3D on the Wii, so people can get nearly the same experience at home.

If you want to go on the naming new rides and shows put in route we can do that. This is sense 1999. Cinderella's Surprise Celebration, Cinderellabration, VMK Central, Share a Dream Come True Parade, Main Street Trolley Parade, Disney Dreams Come True Parade, Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade, Move It! Shake It! Celebrate It!, Wishes: A Magical Gathering of Disney Dreams, The Magic Carpets of Aladdin, Mickey's PhilharMagic, It's A Small World, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Space Mountain, Stitch's Great Escape, Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, Mission Space, Test Track, Journey Into Imagination with Figment, Spaceship Earth, Soarin, The Seas with Nemo & Friends, Turtle Talk with Crush, The American Idol Experience, Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show, Toy Story Midway Mania!, Walt Disney: One Man's Dream, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Expedition Everest, Finding Nemo The Musical, Primevil Whirl, Triceratop Spin.

That is stuff they just added in the parks.
MIB is a rip off of Buzz. They change a few things and call it completely different. :lmao: A 10 second roller coaster that is over before you even know it. 2 3d movies wow now that is some impresive additions. A fear factor show which is something incredibly easy to do. How long did it take to make that up? 2 seconds. Real geniuses at Universal.:rotfl2: Teacups with a different name.:rotfl2: Man truely special and unique experience. And a ride that went bankrupt before it was even finished, that was left unfinished for 5 years as a testment of the greatness that is Universal Studios. Its so obvious to see why Universal is the 15th most popular park world wide. :rotfl:
Its been said they are adding 1 new ride to harry potter land. Its not even announced what it is yet. If you consider the flying unicorn renamed a new attraction for harry potter land you are really grasping for air.

You can like Universal all you like but to say Disney does nothing is just plain stupid. I like Universal, I go once a year. Its for free but I go. Nothing changes there that is why it has such bad attendance.

[ChrisFL]

If you want to go on the naming new rides and shows put in route we can do that. This is sense 1999. Cinderella's Surprise Celebration, Cinderellabration, VMK Central, Share a Dream Come True Parade, Main Street Trolley Parade, Disney Dreams Come True Parade, Celebrate a Dream Come True Parade, Move It! Shake It! Celebrate It!, Wishes: A Magical Gathering of Disney Dreams, The Magic Carpets of Aladdin, Mickey's PhilharMagic, It's A Small World, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Space Mountain, Stitch's Great Escape, Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, Mission Space, Test Track, Journey Into Imagination with Figment, Spaceship Earth, Soarin, The Seas with Nemo & Friends, Turtle Talk with Crush, The American Idol Experience, Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show, Toy Story Midway Mania!, Walt Disney: One Man's Dream, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Expedition Everest, Finding Nemo The Musical, Primevil Whirl, Triceratop Spin.

That is stuff they just added in the parks.
MIB is a rip off of Buzz. They change a few things and call it completely different. :lmao: A 10 second roller coaster that is over before you even know it. 2 3d movies wow now that is some impresive additions. A fear factor show which is something incredibly easy to do. How long did it take to make that up? 2 seconds. Real geniuses at Universal.:rotfl2: Teacups with a different name.:rotfl2: Man truely special and unique experience. And a ride that went bankrupt before it was even finished, that was left unfinished for 5 years as a testment of the greatness that is Universal Studios. Its so obvious to see why Universal is the 15th most popular park world wide. :rotfl:
Its been said they are adding 1 new ride to harry potter land. Its not even announced what it is yet. If you consider the flying unicorn renamed a new attraction for harry potter land you are really grasping for air.

You can like Universal all you like but to say Disney does nothing is just plain stupid. I like Universal, I go once a year. Its for free but I go. Nothing changes there that is why it has such bad attendance.

If you honestly think MIB is a ripoff of buzz with "just a few changes" you've obviously never been on it.

VMK Central? Seriously? You call that a worthy addition? :rotfl: BTW, its gone now if you haven't noticed...

I'm not a hater, as much as I sound like one, but Disney has lost its way, the list you posted makes this all the more obvious.

Where's the big E-ticket for MK, or DHS? Why hasn't anything been added to World Showcase in 20 years? Why is AK still a half day park 11 years after it opened? Why can't they get the Yeti to work? Why can't you get a good CS meal anymore? Why does Test Track break down constantly?

[justskip70003]

in theming, and intesity... rock n roller coaster or revenge of the mummy. i am a huge disney fan BUT i have to admit i LOVE revenge of the mummy!!!

[rodkenrich]

in theming, and intesity... rock n roller coaster or revenge of the mummy. i am a huge disney fan BUT i have to admit i LOVE revenge of the mummy!!! I second that notion.

[doconeill]

in theming, and intesity... rock n roller coaster or revenge of the mummy. i am a huge disney fan BUT i have to admit i LOVE revenge of the mummy!!!

Mummy was quite cool...although I was a bit disappoint on how short it was for the type of ride. In overall length it probably wasn't any shorter than RNRC - but I wouldn't call it a coaster either. More like a hybrid between a steel coaster and something like Dinosaur. It stops, changes directions, etc. Excellently done though.

[Princessmom2]

I am/was a big Disney fan. I get stopped by other people visiting the parks so they can ask questions. My sister said (after going with me and older DD in March) that Disney should pay me for all the enthusiasm I have for Disney.

But after our hotel room was cancelled by the powers that be at Disney 2 days before our stay (long story, we knew we had a "computer glitch" price but Disney said our mistake, we will honor it--then they had another computer glitch that wiped out our reservation and they said too bad, not honoring anything and not even offering you a substitute of any kind, so we lost out on any discounts we could have booked earlier) I got mad and we went to Universal for Spring Break this year (end of March/beginning of April). I won a free ticket from the super bowl, and it was cheaper to buy both my DH and DD a 7 day ticket to US/IOA then just DH a ticket to WDW (my daughter and I already had passes to WDW). We also went to Sea World, and we stayed at Portofino Bay. We had a very relaxing, enjoyable trip. We had never been to US/IOA, and front of the line pass was terrific. The hotel was so enjoyable, and a much nicer hotel with a better price than the Beach Club/Yacht CLub. We spent all our money at Universal and their restaurants. Had excellent help from the CMs at Universal (the CMs at the store outside Twister were going to take me in the back door of the ride to meet my family because I didn't go in and they said it was too fun to miss!) and the hotel staff was as nice as they could be, especially one of the waiters we had.

Now, do we still like Disney? Yes, and their parks are probably a better fit for us. Will we just do Disney from now on? Don't know, probably not. We were much more relaxed after the week at Portofino than we have ever been at Disney. My DD asked if we could move to the Portofino (never asked that about a Disney hotel!) And the one day my DD and I went to Epcot (with friends) at the end of the week it was a madhouse and not that enjoyable (may have been because we were used to FOTL!). I do think that if Disney does not bring back its policy of great customer service, they will have more people do a split stay with US/IOA. My 10 year old actually said she liked the rides at US/IOA better (except the roller coasters!).

So, will Disney still bring in more people? Yes, of course. But I do think that they won't get all their money, as they used to, and that will affect their bottom line eventually. I have to admit, what happened to us really upset me and I am actually thinking about staying offsite if and when we make another trip. Never done that before.

[W.E.D.]

First off, I'm a huge WDW fan, like most of us. However, I think some people here are so blinded by their love that they refuse to see any glitches.
US/IoA and WDW are like apples and oranges, and cannot be clearly compared on most levels. Will US/IoA ever defeat WDW in the number crunching game? I highly doubt it. Is the theming at IoA on par with WDW? I say yes, IMHO.
I think Disney has really slacked off on things that I at least find important. For example, anchor-type rides. Before PotC got it's rehab, I was horribly shocked at the quality of the sound. Many of the characters no longer moved, or were so off-synch as to be a distraction. My last visit was '06 and the exit show for SM was pathetic. I remember when it had just been rehabed and I actually wanted to slowly ride the conveyor and see what was going on. HM is in desperate need of a clean-up. It's a Small World. The list goes on. Rather then spend on a new super-ride, or yet more DVC rooms (no offense to members intended), why not clean up the rides that are hallmarks of a WDW vacation?
Also, I'm really distressed by the "on-the-cheap" redo's they have been in the habit of making. Stich's Whatever in place of AE; changing El Rio Del Tiempo to include the Three Cabellero's---does any besides we junkies even know who they are (other than Donald of course).
Personally, I was unimpressed, on a whole, by US/IoA, and will more than likely continue to spend my $$ at WDW. However, I think the truth of the matter is that there are those who [gasp] don't love the house of mouse the way we do, there numbers are growing, and WDW must include "quality of experience" in their budget to gain new devotees.

[yitbos96bb]

I don't think all of IOA is on par, but a good part of it is. I think my biggest complaints of theming are being converted into Harry Potter Land, so that may be solved.

Your last visit being in 2006, some of this has been rehabbed. HM was just done and is outstanding. SM is obviously being done now. Small World was done recently and looks great. El Rio de Tempo doesn't seem to much different to me than it was, except incorporating the Three Cabelleros. So not to much of a change, IMHO.

First off, I'm a huge WDW fan, like most of us. However, I think some people here are so blinded by their love that they refuse to see any glitches.
US/IoA and WDW are like apples and oranges, and cannot be clearly compared on most levels. Will US/IoA ever defeat WDW in the number crunching game? I highly doubt it. Is the theming at IoA on par with WDW? I say yes, IMHO.
I think Disney has really slacked off on things that I at least find important. For example, anchor-type rides. Before PotC got it's rehab, I was horribly shocked at the quality of the sound. Many of the characters no longer moved, or were so off-synch as to be a distraction. My last visit was '06 and the exit show for SM was pathetic. I remember when it had just been rehabed and I actually wanted to slowly ride the conveyor and see what was going on. HM is in desperate need of a clean-up. It's a Small World. The list goes on. Rather then spend on a new super-ride, or yet more DVC rooms (no offense to members intended), why not clean up the rides that are hallmarks of a WDW vacation?
Also, I'm really distressed by the "on-the-cheap" redo's they have been in the habit of making. Stich's Whatever in place of AE; changing El Rio Del Tiempo to include the Three Cabellero's---does any besides we junkies even know who they are (other than Donald of course).
Personally, I was unimpressed, on a whole, by US/IoA, and will more than likely continue to spend my $$ at WDW. However, I think the truth of the matter is that there are those who [gasp] don't love the house of mouse the way we do, there numbers are growing, and WDW must include "quality of experience" in their budget to gain new devotees.

[W.E.D.]

^^^Excellent!!! Glad to hear it. Again, so thankfull I found this site. I had no idea HM had been refurbished, and only knew about SM recently. I knew IaSW had been rehabed at DL, but not WDW.

[GeorgiaDawg7]

And that's the difference. Older kids, teens and adults can take themselves to US. Small children cannot take themselves to WDW; they must go with adults, thereby creating greater attendance numbers and generating more revenue. Disney FTW!

It isa true most teens would rather go to theme parks like Universal and Busch Gardens. I am a 16 yr. old boy and i live about an hour away from Six flags over Georgia, and i enjoy going there it's great! But it's just not Disney to me I started going to Disney When I was 5yrs. old and ive been 19 times ever since. And Disney has been in my blood ever since as a 16yr. old I much rather go on Peter Pan's Flight then Goliath at Six Flag's over GA, Because of the memories disney give you at such a young age. It just draws you to go back and relive them over and over