Would you pay higher prices for monorail extension?

[jheigl]

Ok, everyone please be hypothetical here. We all know that there is pretty much ZERO chance Disney will expand the monorail to include the other parks, but most agree it would be wonderful if they did. I know it is a ridiculous cost to expand it, but for fun, let's see what most people think. Would you pay slightly higher ticket prices and/ or parking fees in order for Disney to raise most or all of the money needed to expand the monorail? Now I know Disney technically doesn't need to raise prices to do this, but of course with the cost being so high, they would want to offset it somehow. With that being said, I want to say that I am the first person in the disgusted visitor line everytime I have to pay $12 to park for the day, but if I could take the monorail all around the world, I think I would put up with a raise in prices. What does everyone think?

[MJMcBride]

depends on the rise, 50 cents or 50 bucks makes a big difference

[rebecca06261]

Most theme parks already charge anywhere from $15 - $20.00 per day for parking. It's the one thing I always found "cheap" about Disney. So YES I'd pay more if they expanded the monorail (but fortunately I dont' have to since I have an AP ;))

[patsal]

Would love more monorail and less busses.

[jheigl]

Would love more monorail and less busses.

Seems as if nowadays with the "green" movement, the move from polluting busses to a monorail would be great publicity for the company...not as if they need any more publicity!

[BlackHoleFan]

I think Disney shoul look into expanding the monorial to the airport, more people would use that than between the parks, which already have pretty good bus transportation. They could offset the price by charging a small fee for non-disney guests, and having a stop at International Drive and the Lake Buena Vista Crossroads. Of course they could also charge yet another local tax to cover the expense.........

[jlewisinsyr]

I think Disney shoul look into expanding the monorial to the airport, more people would use that than between the parks, which already have pretty good bus transportation. They could offset the price by charging a small fee for non-disney guests, and having a stop at International Drive and the Lake Buena Vista Crossroads. Of course they could also charge yet another local tax to cover the expense.........

Weren't they going to build a high speed rail system from Tampa to Orlando for the Olympics or some other major event?

It wasn't going to be paid for by Disney, but same concept.

I always wondered what the CBA, ROI and NPV would be on a massive infrastructure project like enhancements to the monorail system. Unfortunately there are so many variables and in order to make the best of it, you'd need to connect all the resorts as well...

[gymnastgirlflips]

I would love the expansion, but all that extra money will add up eventually. After a couple of trips with a family and having the prices raised... you could probably get an extra vacation out of there if the prices stayed the same. I guess it would be worth it for more monorails- riding the busses does get a little annoying.

[KYMickey]

The other problem nobody has mentioned is monorail capacity. Even where they do run they only carry a small portion of the people traveling between those points. Even if the monorail was expanded buses and other means of transportation would still be required. Because of this the payback for the monorail system would be very small since nothing would actually be eliminated. The monorails are more or less just a novelty or attraction not really a transportation system for the masses.

[Peter Pirate 2]

The high cost as a factor kills me. Iger made 13 million last year and at 1 million per mile that's a lot of monorail. Bye bye slug.:laughing:

It's all relative. If they truly cared about guest experience this would be a different conversation but since they only care about the next quarters numbers the point is simply moot until such time as huge profits can be directly quantified from such decision. Look for more "green" busses.

pirate:

[jheigl]

The other problem nobody has mentioned is monorail capacity. Even where they do run they only carry a small portion of the people traveling between those points. Even if the monorail was expanded buses and other means of transportation would still be required. Because of this the payback for the monorail system would be very small since nothing would actually be eliminated. The monorails are more or less just a novelty or attraction not really a transportation system for the masses.

I guess I can agree that they do not carry as many people as the busses do, however they can hold quite a few and if they expanded the track they could add more monorails. I doubt they use all 12 on any given day, so if they expanded there would be more room for the 12 to be used, and they could even purchase more. While I doubt expanding the monorail is feasible at this point, its just fun to discuss.

Also, I don't think going to the airport would be feasible at all...it is quite a ways from WDW to the OIA (or MCO).

[Meg13]

I think it would be cool; the monorails are a huge attraction all on their own. It would be great fun, but I think it would all depend on just how much the prices would increase. While the expansion would be neat, I'm not sure how efficient it would be. The lines for the monorails would probably be just as long as those for the buses are now, and while it would spread the crowd out some, it probably wouldn't make that great a difference.

Now, looking at it for simply adding more to the Guests' experience at the World, ignoring efficiency and money, I say go for it! :goodvibes

[mouserus]

I think it would be great. I also think they should put "donation stations" throughout the parks and resorts. If I had extra change in my pockets I'd be inclined to toss it in. Raise the money through donations.

[jheigl]

I think it would be great. I also think they should put "donation stations" throughout the parks and resorts. If I had extra change in my pockets I'd be inclined to toss it in. Raise the money through donations.

Or maybe sell some type of "lasting memory" thing, such as like they did for the "Walk Around the World" bricks and the "Leave a Legacy".

[movie77]

Again it depends on the amount, but for a few bucks a day, sure.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

A Disney area columnist ponders "What's Next for Disney World?"
by Dave Parker

This week we switch tracks a bit (pun definitely intended there) to focus on the twelve train-strong Walt Disney World Monorail System. While this Highway in the Sky is extremely popular with Guests, as well as a critical element of the WDW transportation system, why hasnt it ever expanded?
Ill admit it: Im a Monorail junkie.



I mean, sure, I didnt initially think I would like having plant shelves in our house, but boy are they a convenient place to show off my Monorail toy, err.. *ahem* Monorail model collection... ...and lets not get into the fact that I was disappointed to find out that the Contemporary addition only supports one Monorail beam going through it (until you coax it into supporting two, that is).

So when John asked me his question last week about why theres no Monorail service to the Disney-MGM Studios or Disneys Animal Kingdom, well, I felt his pain. I mean, the Monorail here at Walt Disney World, as well as the one in California, is just as much a part of Disney as Space Mountain and Pirates of the Caribbean. Just take a look at Disney.com and tell me what pulls into the screen at the top, doubling as a web link bar?

Oh how I wish the Walt Disney World Resort would have kept up the Monorail System to add stops at other destinations around the property, especially the other two Theme Parks.

Of course, this didnt happen, and may never happen thanks to a little, or rather as it always is, a BIG thing called price.

While the Monorail has many things going for it, it is a little pricey to built and maintain. In fact, just the track alone costs well over one million dollars...per mile!

Just for a reference, the path from the Ticket and Transportation Center to Epcot is roughly seven miles, and those parks are very close together.

Of course, you do get a lot when you invest in such a Monorail. First off and most dramatic, the addition doesnt need that much space, since the only things you need are place for the track pillars to go. Compared to another mass transit system, the footprint of the Monorail is negligible.

Another benefit is the fact that it is completely pollution free; free from chemical pollution AND noise pollution. If youre like me, they just look cool anyway, which makes me want to ride and watch them go by.

...but back to the story of the Monorails cost. Of course, most of the thought of a system expansion was around the time of the then-new Disney-MGM Studios, which would have been the first major destination on property without Monorail access.

Given the cost required to do a sizable expansion to the system, which would have most likely required a new central hub to the west of the Epcot area, the idea was put on hold where it stands today.

Instead, the Monorail was supplemented by motor coaches, otherwise known as busses.

Although not as glamorous or futuristic as the Monorail, the fleet of busses served two very important requirements of the WDW management: cheaper and flexible. You see, transportation around the Walt Disney World Resort isnt as steady as one might think. In fact, if youve ever tried to leave the Magic Kingdom within one hour of the park closing, versus at ten in the morning, youll understand what I mean completely.

There are established times for when the WDW Transportation system will need to carry more Guests than at other times, as well as be able to provide a larger capacity between certain routes at certain times. One example of this might be from Animal Kingdom to the Magic Kingdom around 5:00 PM, as Guests are leaving a closing Animal Kingdom to spend the rest of the night in the Park that stays open the longest on that night. That route will not have the same requirements as one going from the Caribbean Beach Resort to Downtown Disney, for example.

That flexibility is what really helps out when it comes to the busses in operation around the WDW property. When a certain time or certain routes need more or less capacity, additional busses can be brought into service to accommodate the demand. Of course, the fact that they are relatively cheap (as compared to other mass transit) also helps with that scenario.

Which, given the fact that the busses fit so well nowadays with their flexibility, as well as the numerous stops on property now, the fact of a Monorail expansion is highly unlikely; probably more than ever.

I say that because you have to think about what a Monorail is really good for, and what its not. A Walt Disney World Mark VI Monorail (the model currently in use) can hold over 300 people per train. However, consider how many different stops you would have to build to connect each resort and destination on property, and you end up with a lot of trains holding only handfuls of people on most of the routes.

In its current use, its perfect. Its a high capacity shuttle of sorts, especially at peak time such as the opening and closing of the Magic Kingdom. Thats where the 300+ capacity will be filled up minute after minute, dropping one group off and going around for another load.

Unfortunately, thats not the sort of transportation system the Resort as a whole needs, as it is actually too rigid and massive for most of the assumed stops. Even if we had most of the Resorts on a single Monorail line, there would have to be many trains on each line so that each station has an arrival in a decent amount of time (keep in mind about the distances were talking about); again, the cost for such a plan would be prohibitive, but this time for the trains involved.

However, just because the Monorail isnt the best choice for the job, it doesnt leave the Resort high and dry without an alternative. In fact, there is one very promising alternative that Disney has allegedly looked into in the past.

Imagine you are standing at the front of your resort, Coronado Springs, and you enter the PRT station (Ill explain in a second; just go with me here). You see a lot of small bubble-like vehicles the size of a small compact car, many lined up on a track and all of them moving.

However, there is a large group in the middle that is moving together but very slowly. There are others approaching the station very fast, and then slow down to enter the pack in the middle moving slowly. The ones at the front of the pack take off fast one by one, heading out of the station. Youve seen this before: namely on the Tomorrowland Transit Authority in Tomorrowland at the Magic Kingdom. Although there are numerous cars leaving the station there are enough on the system to have some waiting at the station at all times.

You get on a moving platform, and then step into one of the cabs as the door shuts behind you. A voice comes over the speakers and greets you with Welcome to the Walt Disney World Personal Rapid Transit System. Please choose a destination from the console in front of you.

Upon looking down, you see a console that contains buttons for every destination on Walt Disney World property, and upon picking Downtown Disney: Westside, the same voice comes over the speakers again and states This cab will be traveling to Downtown Disney Westside. If you should need to change your destination, please select a new destination from the console at any time.

The cab then proceeds to speed and lift up onto an elevated track traveling automatically to your specific destination. No stops in between. No vehicle changes.

Thats the type of flexibility, individualized flexibility, that the Walt Disney World Resort needs; the ability for a traveling party to get into a cab, pick their destination, and let the system automatically get them there. Once exited, that cab then becomes available for use for another Guest or group. Since the cabs are constantly cycled in and out of stations, they never stay in one place and therefore allow every station with enough empty cabs to meet demand. During peak times, the system can divert empty cabs to known high-traffic stations automatically.

To give you some idea of what Im talking about, there are some great concept photos of proposed PRT systems from an upstart company called Taxi 2000. You can check them out and learn more about their PRT system from their web site here.

While I wish I could say this was my idea, it in fact started with Walt Disney himself. He saw a need for both a high capacity shuttle (i.e. the Monorail) and a more individualized People Mover to co-exist. While the system he envisioned and the one I described above are a little different, they are modeled after the same idea.

Speaking of models, next time youre on the TTA in the Magic Kingdom, take a look at the Epcot model above Stitchs Great Escape, and youll see the Monorail right next to the People Mover, co-existing since they were designed for separate roles. Of course, Im referring to the real EPCOT; the city, not the theme park.

Remember I said that Disney had researched this concept before? Well, West Virginia University has a system sort of like this in place for over 30 years called the WVU PRT, which can be seen below:



In fact, they have a pretty nifty video of the system and how it works located here if youd like to take a look.

Now Im not saying that this will happen at the Walt Disney World Resort. I have to wonder, however, how long can the Resort afford to use (which will have to be) an ever-increasing fleet of busses indefinitely?

Thanks for stopping on by, and Ill see you next week!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

OK just checked out the Taxi 2000 website - WAY COOL.....I vote for THIS vs expanding the monorail!!!!!

[jheigl]

That too me seems more expensive and illogical than expanding the monorail.... one argument against this article is that I wasn't saying the monorail needs to go to any more resorts at all....just the parks. It would only be an extra two stops. Therefore not much change of timing, especially since they would be on their own loops. Great read though!

[Horace Horsecollar]

The high cost as a factor kills me. Iger made 13 million last year and at 1 million per mile that's a lot of monorail.
"1 million per mile" is an urban legend.

See http://www.yesterland.com/monoraillegends.html

[CanadianGuy]

"1 million per mile" is an urban legend.

See http://www.yesterland.com/monoraillegends.html

As Horace's link accurately points out, a 4.4 mile monorail in Las Vegas cost over $600 million dollars.. but there are a LOT of costs there which Disney wouldn't face.

Regardless, it's much more than $1,000,000 per mile.

Add to that, the route is limited in part by land that is a conversation status and means no development can take place on it - period - and some other land (often adjacent to that) on which development is "not ideal". (This according to the RCID planning documents available online)

What does all that mean? That Disney has to plan the expansion of the monorail around protected wetlands and conservation area ... AND along that route that avoids the protected areas, be sure that the posts that hold up the monorail are seated on bedrock ... no good putting them in mushy swampland ... altho that would be an E-Ticket attraction for sure.. ;)

Getting to bedrock in Florida can be an expensive proposition..

It all adds up.

Knox

[Saxsoon]

I ask one question, how often is the EPCOT monorail used regularly? I have never seen more than 10-30 people hop on them. It isn't feasible and is pointless when there are other means of transportation. Plus, we usually stay on site so we don't pay for parking. You would still have to pay to park at the TTC or a new TTC2 anyway.

[Tinkerbell21]

Yea that would be ok with me...again depending on how much but I would love it if the monorail went to all of the parks!

[andydandy325]

my plan for extending the monorail, I think would be to have it travel from EPCOT, and then to the Yacht & Beach Club Resorts and villas, Swan and Dolphin resorts, Hollywood Studios, then swing back around and hit the Boardwalk resort and villas. It cant be more than 2 1/2-3 miles. No more trains would be required either. only pure construction of stations and track. unlike starting fresh.

sadly, I think we are all dreaming

[jheigl]

sadly, I think we are all dreaming

True, but isn't that part of what Disney is? :)

[KYMickey]

my plan for extending the monorail, I think would be to have it travel from EPCOT, and then to the Yacht & Beach Club Resorts and villas, Swan and Dolphin resorts, Hollywood Studios, then swing back around and hit the Boardwalk resort and villas. It cant be more than 2 1/2-3 miles. No more trains would be required either. only pure construction of stations and track. unlike starting fresh.
Why do you think that no more trains would be required? If you have more stops (you're adding quite a few in your idea) you're obviously planning on carrying more people over more distance so you would obviously need more trains. I also think the route you are talking about is longer than you think.

[KidDurango]

With any expansion of the monorails, more trains would definately be neded. On most days, at some point in the day there are 11 trains out on the beam. When you factor in that there is often one train that is completely out of service for maintenance overhaul, then that is your current fleet. Several days in the past weeks they have been running whats known as 4-4-4, which means they have 4 trains on each beam (resort, express, and Epcot). There are times during the day that they may go down to as little as 3-3-2, but that is usually only in mid-afternoon, so that they can do some of the daily maintenance on the trains that they might not be able to get to due to late park hours.
The other thing that is not mentioned often when talking of Monorail expansion, is what happens when trains break down. When a train breaks down, you lose virtually all capacity on that line for however long it is down. If you were running 3 trains, that is a loss of potentially 900 people about every 20 minutes for what is often an hour or more. On the flip side, when a bus breaks down, it is a potential loss of 70 people, for just as long as it takes to put another bus out there. If guests are stuck on a broken train, then they are stuck on a broken train. If guests are stuck on a broken bus, another bus pulls up next to it, they move to the new bus, and off they go.
It may not be pretty or exciting, but buses make the most sense for the operation Disney has.

[saratogadreamin09]

the monorail offers a fun ride and is so much faster then the buses or boats Id be willing to pay more for a monorail extension

[TheRustyScupper]

1) No.
2) The current monorail is fine.
3) Keep the admission price low.
4) Of course, riders are free to pay to ride the new monorail lines.
5) That would be fair - pay only if you ride.

[ParrotBill]

I would love to see a light rail or trolley system rather than the expensive monorail. Leverage a design already in use and cheaper to manufacture, and roadway level with crossing gates for less used roads and flyovers for busier roads. I would lay out these routes with Studios as a hub.

AKL - AK - ASR - BB - CSR - DS
DS - SD - YC - BC - Front of EPCOT
DS - TTC (heck, ditch TTC and go to MK bus area )
DS - PC - CBR - DD Westside - OKW - PO - SSR

[KYMickey]

I would love to see a light rail or trolley system rather than the expensive monorail. Leverage a design already in use and cheaper to manufacture, and roadway level with crossing gates for less used roads and flyovers for busier roads. I would lay out these routes With Studios as a hub.
Why put the hub at the studios? Why not build a huge new parking area and the hub somewhere removed from all the Parks with direct interstate access. That would open up the existing parking areas for development and would greatly reduce automobile traffic within WDW. It would also greatly reduce the traffic on the existing roads so that maybe grade crossings could be used at all places instead of fly overs really reducing the cost of the project. Actually if designed correctly light rail and trolleys could run on the same track and be used interchangeably depending on the demand for a particular route. Of course Disney isn't going to want to spend money on anything like this that doesn't make them money.

[wdw4us2]

Why not build a different sort of rail transportation system for the Epcot resort area (YC/BC, Boardwalk, Swan & Dolphin) and DHS using the TTA (Peoplemover) technology? According to the original plans for EPCOT, the drawings all featured this transportation system as well as the Monorail.

[andydandy325]

Why not build a different sort of rail transportation system for the Epcot resort area (YC/BC, Boardwalk, Swan & Dolphin) and DHS using the TTA (Peoplemover) technology? According to the original plans for EPCOT, the drawings all featured this transportation system as well as the Monorail.

There you go! :lovestruc peoplemover!

[TheRustyScupper]

1) Forget a monorail expansion.
2) Use the latest technology, instead.
3) "Beam me to The Studios, Scotty."

[mitros]

Personally, I am sick of paying more for EVERYTHING at WDW..........

[Padrepride]

First off, I love the monorail both at WDW and at DLR. But costs are high enough as it is at both resorts and from my experiences, the bus/boat transportation is fine. Here's an idea for an alternate form of transportation at WDW, how about subway, or hot-air balloon.:laughing:

[mitros]

First off, I love the monorail both at WDW and at DLR. But costs are high enough as it is at both resorts and from my experiences, the bus/boat transportation is fine. Here's an idea for an alternate form of transportation at WDW, how about subway, or hot-air balloon.:laughing:

Man, you left out teleportation. Just ask Capt. Kirk how quick that form of getting from point A to point B can be!

[raidermatt]

I think upgrading and expanding WDW's transportation system, monorail or otherwise, would be a wise investment for Disney. The Walt Disney Company already has the capital to invest if they chose to do so.

[JoWiJo]

Ok, several have brought up the people-movers, so I'll give my input.

I'd be in favor or a people-mover system myself, tying it in with the monorail perhaps, but not exactly as Walt Disney had planned. The one drawback of the one he wanted is that it prohibits those people with low or no self-mobility from riding, as it is always moving. Imagine yourself being only able to walk at a maximum speed of 3 MPH and trying to climb inside something moving at 6 or 7 MPH perpendicularly to you -- or trying to time your movement while sitting in a chair so that you can wheel yourself through the door in that ever-so short timespan you have (getting through motionless doors can be hard enough at times for someone in a chair).

So, those confined to walkers and wheelchairs will then still be forced to use automobiles (or the monorail, if available at both points A and B). While the bus route would still be a viable option for such guests, keep in mind that the process of getting on and off them for the handicapped can take even longer than those of us with mobility -- sometimes much longer.

There is no reason that a "people-mover" should constantly move, especially since it can be tied into a computer system. At the very least these cars should be stoppable at designated points from both within and without the vehicles. Not only would this be a great benefit for the mobility impaired, but also for anyone else that might need them to stop, such as a party with a stroller. Space out the cars a reasonable bit, and perhaps similar to an earlier suggestion in this thread, allow people to select their destination points, cars can then de-magnatize (i.e. stop) at certain points. Those cars that are behind the stopped cars at given stations but are continuing on can bypass them via switch track.

Aside from what should be a small tweak to make the cars ADA compliant, I'd be all for it. They're clean, quiet, and even a little fun.

[KYMickey]

I think upgrading and expanding WDW's transportation system, monorail or otherwise, would be a wise investment for Disney. The Walt Disney Company already has the capital to invest if they chose to do so.
Why do you feel it would be a wise investment? It's a neat toy but it's really not extremely practical nor cost effective. There are much more cost effective and efficient systems available, including hybrid buses which are being adopted by Disney.

[RoutemanDan]

Why do you feel it would be a wise investment? It's a neat toy but it's really not extremely practical nor cost effective. There are much more cost effective and efficient systems available, including hybrid buses which are being adopted by Disney.


He said, "I think upgrading and expanding WDW's transportation system, monorail or otherwise, would be a wise investment for Disney"

[raidermatt]

Why do you feel it would be a wise investment? It's a neat toy but it's really not extremely practical nor cost effective. There are much more cost effective and efficient systems available, including hybrid buses which are being adopted by Disney.
He said, "I think upgrading and expanding WDW's transportation system, monorail or otherwise, would be a wise investment for Disney"

Exactly.

The time when the monorail was definitely a smart investment has passed, but that doesn't mean it still wouldn't be a wise investment.

The efficiency knocks are overblown, and it has tremendous value beyond just its practical value

But that doesn't mean it's the best choice. It should still be an option on the table though.

Regardless, busses alone are absolutely not the answer, whether they be natural gas, diesel, hybrid, etc.

The thing to remember is that while Disney's transportation needs have similarities to the needs of metropolitan areas, WDW's needs also have great differences. Perhaps the most important difference is the fact that it is part of a "show".

Despite the lip service, Disney has moved away from the idea that absolutely everything the customer sees/does is part of the entertainment experience. That's the real reason why WDW's transportation system isn't likely to get any kind of major upgrade in the future. We'll see improvements that save Disney some costs, or help them in the PR department (i.e. hybrid busses), but I think that's about the extent of it.

That's truly unfortunate.

[jheigl]

Another thing with adding busses and such would be the normal maintenance costs associated with them, i.e. oil changes, fuel, tires, brakes, etc. To my knowledge, the monorail doesn't come close to the cost to operate. I think the people mover idea would be the best, but who knows. Hopefully they will expand something someday!

[tjkraz]

Too many hurdles for there ever to be 100% reliance on monorails.

1. Cost
2. Redundancy - entire line comes to a halt in the event of a breakdown; or you build multiple lines which double and triple costs
3. Capacity - Takes about 2 minutes to load a single train. That's 30 trains per hour. If a single train can hold 100 guests (which I think is high) you're only moving 3000 people per hour. Now calculate how many hours it takes to move 50,000 people out of a park at closing. Multiple load stations would help, but again dramatically add to costs.
4. Multiple loops - Buses provide direct point-to-point service while any monorail system would have to have multiple loops. Headed to the Magic Kingdom from the Animal Kingdom Lodge? At best you'd have to take a train from AKL to the TTC and then switch trains. And if the monorail system is moving 200,000 people per day, you can bet that lines would be long and stations crowded.

Buses cost less. They are flexible in that service can be ramped-up for specific parks as needed. They offer direct service. And breakdowns don't impact the system one bit. There are also many new eco-friendly alternatives which negate that advantage of monorails.

A monorail expansion sounds romantic but it's far from cost effective. Disney could expand the loop if they chose, but it wouldn't be for economic reasons. And I suspect most guests would rather Disney put $500 million into new attractions rather than giving BW/YC/BC guests monorail service to Hollywood Studios.

[kittychatalot]

I would pay substantially extra for some tyor of tram system, wether elevated, or on the ground. I like the bus system but nothing beats the monorail. I know the Monorail in las vegas gets very littel use though. we americans love our cars!

[Snowgod]

Instead of paying bonuses to all the execs, why not use that money to expand the monorail. I know the numbers crunchers will find no value in it but customer service was never a favorite of the MBAs either. I think it would be cheaper and easier to add additional track and trains to the monorail than ground based transit.

[dvc at last !]

Would love more monorail and less busses.



Agree.

:cool1:

[jheigl]

Instead of paying bonuses to all the execs, why not use that money to expand the monorail. I know the numbers crunchers will find no value in it but customer service was never a favorite of the MBAs either. I think it would be cheaper and easier to add additional track and trains to the monorail than ground based transit.

Unfortunately, other companies would offer Disney execs jobs with bonuses and the execs would leave for the money and we would eventually be left either with people who have no experience or people who are not that good. I agree 100% with you, but in the real world, unfortunately that isn't possible, in my opinion.

[Snowgod]

I say that if Disney execs want to leave, let them. I do not believe that the current culture of greed that corporate America has been following is good for business. Any corporation that wants to pay one person more than most of the hourly workers combined deserves what it gets. A bonus should only be for workers at the bottom that help customers get the value that will bring them back again and again. Workers that deliver outstanding customer service should receive a bonus. Cutting costs by laying off workers should not be worthy of a bonus, especially when the bonus is as mush as what was saved. The reason that people keep going to WDW over and over is to escape reality. Monorail and TTA are both part of what makes it special. Busses are common in every city in the world and thus not special at all.

[jlewisinsyr]

Snowgod, remember the recent staffing adjustments at Disney were pre-planned, just the timeline was escalated.

[Metro West]

Would I pay more for a monorail extension? Nope...I spend enough now.

[the who #3]

yes, i would be willing to pay extra somewhere to have that extension.:worship:

if the monorail ran to akl and park, you would find the akl full to capacity most of the time. :idea: also think of the extra business that would take place at dtd if the monorail went there also.

i really think it would pay for it's self in no time.:thumbsup2

okw, the dtd dvc resorts, and akl are the dvc resorts not covered. vwl is actually accessable by boat to mk and then the monorail

[KYMickey]

Unfortunately, other companies would offer Disney execs jobs with bonuses and the execs would leave for the money and we would eventually be left either with people who have no experience or people who are not that good. I agree 100% with you, but in the real world, unfortunately that isn't possible, in my opinion.
Or possibly we be left with is executives who really care about Disney instead of just the money! Obviously the ones that are there for the money haven't done a very good job in everyone's opinion. :thumbsup2

[the who #3]

ok, so maybe it is just a very expensive toy, but what is all of disney if not a very expensive toy. not only that, we all love that very expensive toy or we would not be on this dis.:thumbsup2

[jheigl]

ok, so maybe it is just a very expensive toy, but what is all of disney if not a very expensive toy. not only that, we all love that very expensive toy or we would not be on this dis.:thumbsup2

That's a good point! :thumbsup2

Anyway, I'm not sure where the $$$ collected from the parking lots go towards, perhaps just profit...or maybe it goes towards the Disney Transportation, but if it is just going toward profit, why not use it toward some sort of better transportation...be it monorail extension or people mover or whatever?

[jimmalru80]

How much higher??

[jheigl]

Not much...it would all depend on what they wanted to add it on to. If they added it to the tickets, then maybe an extra 3-5 dollars total. If they added it to parking, maybe 1-2 extra dollars. If they added it to resorts, maybe an extra 5-10 dollars total. I realize that any little bit turns into a lot after a week's trip or after two weeks, etc, but this is simply for discussion...not very practical.

[KYMickey]

Not much...it would all depend on what they wanted to add it on to. If they added it to the tickets, then maybe an extra 3-5 dollars total. If they added it to parking, maybe 1-2 extra dollars. If they added it to resorts, maybe an extra 5-10 dollars total. I realize that any little bit turns into a lot after a week's trip or after two weeks, etc, but this is simply for discussion...not very practical.
The numbers don't make any sense. More people buy tickets than pay for parking so the increase in parking should be more than the increase in ticket prices! I do probably agree with your estimate in resort fees but I don't think that would be a likely place to increase the fees to pay for monorails.

One option that hasn't been discussed is to charge a fee for the use of Disney transportation. Charge to take the monorail from MK to DTD or wherever or charge to take the bus. As long as the fees were quite small it makes sense because people would probably be willing to pay for the convenience and for the interest in riding the monorail.

[JimB.]

1 million per mile that's a lot of monorail..

I would hazard a guess that if a monorail extension could be put in for $1 million/mile, Disney would do it in about 35 seconds. That is flippin ' CHEAP!!

5 years ago the estimate of the Florida "bullet train" was a high as $51 billion bucks for 320 miles. That would equal $159,000,000 PER MILE!!!!!!

I think the true cost of a monorail extension would obviously be much cheaper, since Disney would not have to consider right of way costs, but still tens of millions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ per mile. It is just too flippin' expensive.

Plus, although they are definitely much higher on the "cool" scale than buses, I bet the load capacity over time is much lower.

[KYMickey]

The Las Vegas monorail extinction is supposed to cost about $800 million per mile and there are no right of way costs associated with that! Monorails require a lot more foundation work and structural work than bullet trains, or any other train for that matter and thus cost considerably more.

[jheigl]

The numbers don't make any sense. More people buy tickets than pay for parking so the increase in parking should be more than the increase in ticket prices! I do probably agree with your estimate in resort fees but I don't think that would be a likely place to increase the fees to pay for monorails.

One option that hasn't been discussed is to charge a fee for the use of Disney transportation. Charge to take the monorail from MK to DTD or wherever or charge to take the bus. As long as the fees were quite small it makes sense because people would probably be willing to pay for the convenience and for the interest in riding the monorail.

I just sort of threw the numbers out there with no thought whatsoever...just as a guesstimate..I didn't mean them literally! :lmao:

[Dznefreek]

One option that hasn't been discussed is to charge a fee for the use of Disney transportation.
It is already built into the cost of admission. Years ago a statement to that effect was on the back of the tickets.

[KYMickey]

It is already built into the cost of admission. Years ago a statement to that effect was on the back of the tickets.Yes it did but times have certainly changed and if I remember correctly that's no longer on the back of the tickets!* Charging a nominal fee for the use of transportation may help control some of the overuse of the transportation system as well as provide money for upgrading it.

[the who #3]

i think the idea of free disney transportation was ment to make everything move more smoothly. it takes time to stop and pay the driver each time you get on the bus or other. it also causes a lot more work for the driver/cm. the ease of every thing moving without interuption is a really special treat. ;)it would also mean that you allways have to have cash in your pocket or you could not get anywhere.:confused3 that would take part of the magic away.

i would rather they find another way to charge.:)

[dmlashultz]

I love the monorail and hate buses - I loved using the monorail when we stayed in the contemporary as a kid. I would love to have some kind of cool transportation to get around the park. I've thought about it since our last trip. I was very interested to see this thread. I always knew it was "too expensive", but was interested to see all the discussion of some "theoretical" specifics.

I'm just a dreamer, but I love the high tech, as well as "retro" high tech. So I'm all for more monorails, just tack it on to the price of my ticket!

Laurie S., 78 days til WDW, Wilderness Lodge!!!

[the who #3]

i still wish they would put a moving sidwalk either around the park (all parks) or a cross that meets in the middle. just think of the ease for sr. citizens or the disabled who walk. i think this would be a marvelous thing. ;)

[Metro West]

i still wish they would put a moving sidwalk either around the park (all parks) or a cross that meets in the middle. just think of the ease for sr. citizens or the disabled who walk. i think this would be a marvelous thing. ;) That would be SUPER...sometimes my dogs are killing me! :rolleyes1

[the who #3]

if there were a moving side walk around the animal kingdom park you could ride a look at all the animals that could be on the outside perimeter of what we know as the park.

wouldn't that be fun?:goodvibes

[Tink-n-Belle]

I would love it if they expanded the trams to the BWV/BC Swan /Dolphin for Disney Studios. The boat takes sooo long!!! Especially from the BW.

I would also love it if the BW got its own bus, or that the Swan /Dolphin only had 1 stop instead of 2. Such a waste of time.

[TheRustyScupper]

i still wish they would put a moving sidwalk either around the park (all parks) or a cross that meets in the middle.

Would you need a Fast Pass during busy days?

[tjkraz]

i still wish they would put a moving sidwalk either around the park (all parks) or a cross that meets in the middle. just think of the ease for sr. citizens or the disabled who walk. i think this would be a marvelous thing. ;)

I'd rather not see main street turned into an airport concourse.

[the who #3]

i agree that mainstreet mk is too beautiful to destroy but there are so many other ways thru mk. :thumbsup2 besides i would like to continue to enjoy wdw parks after i am too old to do it on my own two feet. :rolleyes1 or is that too big a wish for the elderly?

[tjkraz]

i agree that mainstreet mk is too beautiful to destroy but there are so many other ways thru mk. :thumbsup2 besides i would like to continue to enjoy wdw parks after i am too old to do it on my own two feet. :rolleyes1 or is that too big a wish for the elderly?

Yes, it probably is. It's appropriate that this topic has been raised in a monorail thread since the problems are similar. Moving walkways would be a nice convenience but I don't see them as all-encompassing mobility solutions. Moving walkways won't get you into a restroom, restaurant, gift shop or through an attraction queue. Anyone who is truly impaired will STILL need a wheelchair or ECV.

Then you've got the issues which arise from people wanting to move at their own pace. What happens when the moving walkway at DAK takes people past the baby elephants before they snap the perfect photo? They start walking backward, blocking other people's view and generally creating a danger to everyone around themselves.

There are numerous reasons why moving walkways haven't made their way into our everyday lives. Walt Disney World would face those same challenges, and more.

[the who #3]

i am sorry that you have not yet reached that time in your life when getting around is not as easy as it used to be. may you enjoy it when the time comes. come back and report at that time.:sad2:

there is a time in a person's life when they hesitate to use a wheel chair or other mechanical means of transportation. first because they are not really disabled yet and because that does get in the way of other other park visitors, and they don't want to take that place away from people who are truly disabled. second, because they can still get around without total assistance and prefer it that way. and the key word there is total. a moving sidewalk is just a small amount of assistance that could help those people who are suffering from the effects of old age and other conditions that make it a little more difficult to get around.

whether you have anyone in your life that you care enough about to want them to also have the disney experience or not, some of us do.;)

and i still think it would be a great way to have a safari thru the outer edges of the ak park.

[KYMickey]

One thing everybody fails to mention with the idea of outside moving sidewalks is maintenance! Airports and other large places they use them have enough problems keeping them operational inside. Can you imagine the problems rain, dirt, etc. would would cause if they were outside? They probably would be down for maintenance as much as they were running.

[tjkraz]

i am sorry that you have not yet reached that time in your life when getting around is not as easy as it used to be. may you enjoy it when the time comes. come back and report at that time.:sad2:

there is a time in a person's life when they hesitate to use a wheel chair or other mechanical means of transportation. first because they are not really disabled yet and because that does get in the way of other other park visitors, and they don't want to take that place away from people who are truly disabled. second, because they can still get around without total assistance and prefer it that way. and the key word there is total. a moving sidewalk is just a small amount of assistance that could help those people who are suffering from the effects of old age and other conditions that make it a little more difficult to get around.

whether you have anyone in your life that you care enough about to want them to also have the disney experience or not, some of us do.;)

and i still think it would be a great way to have a safari thru the outer edges of the ak park.

I'm certainly sympathetic to individual needs...I was simply commenting on the likelihood that Disney would pursue such a project. In addition to being a better overall mobility solution, ECVs also provide the most important motivation to Disney--money. Disney can charge guests to use them.

Moving sidewalks would cost millions of dollars, dramatically impact the theming of the park, introduce a number of logistical hurdles (some of which even threaten guest safety) and most importantly to Disney they couldn't charge extra for their use.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

i agree that mainstreet mk is too beautiful to destroy but there are so many other ways thru mk. :thumbsup2 besides i would like to continue to enjoy wdw parks after i am too old to do it on my own two feet. :rolleyes1 or is that too big a wish for the elderly?


I am not elderly but because of an accident, an EVC was the only way to save our last Disney trip. (achilles tendon - surgery - walking boot - GREAT pain meds - I actually had a ball all things considered!!).

I had struggled at DL 3 months earlier on the tendon and the pain was agony.

One thing I learned on a scooter was...you can NEVER predict where someone is going to walk - stop - turn around - back up. I think a people mover would limit the turns - stops - back ups and changes of mind.

Please - please.....if someone is struggling - even a little - please tell them to look at an EVC. It gve me the freedom to come and go as I wanted. It saved our trip --- and my ankle.

[the who #3]

i still think it would be marvelous to have a moving side walk around the perimeter of the animal kingdom with all that surrounding land as home to the animals. :thumbsup2 that would be great for another type of safari and also for us people who have a hard time with hips, knees and old age. call it an old age safari if you want. :lmao:

all forms of mechanical transportation take mantinence. :rolleyes:

[KYMickey]

I think a people mover would limit the turns - stops - back ups and changes of mind.
We're probably make it worse! Just think how some people try to run up all the down escalator! Of course people would be constantly walking backwards instead of stopping to spend more time looking at something (or taking pictures).

[the who #3]

it would be no different than universal, airports and all the others. yes, people would turn around, stop (which is a good reason for the side walk to keep moving) and stand backward. but there usually is enough room for others to pass if they want to move on or faster. ;) kids even have a tendency to walk backward like they will do when you are holding their hand.

i still think it would be an excellent safari!:thumbsup2 and allow for more interesting animals around that outside edge.:idea:

[rodkenrich]

It is already built into the cost of admission. Years ago a statement to that effect was on the back of the tickets. What is it now - about a million dollars per mile with the cost of design and construction?

[KYMickey]

What is it now - about a million dollars per mile with the cost of design and construction?
:rotfl2: That's not even close, I'm not sure what the real number would be but I would think $50 million per mile may be closer. The extension of the Las Vegas system is well over $100 million per mile but that's in an urban setting. The area is more open at WDW but the soils are worse so the foundation's would have been much more extensive and thus more expensive.

[40plus]

The highest cost incurred durring extension of any public transportation extension is right of way. Most who bandy about costs for extension are using public figures that had to include these costs in their figures. Disney already owns the land. Another large one is engineering costs including land studies. Most of the land studies where done durring the early years. Problem is overtime information is filed and forgotten where because those responsible are no longer with the company. Proof of that is the removal several years ago of one of the monorail trains for reverse engineering. Until number crunchers are replaced by corporate executives who look at the parks on a personal level and quit worring about keeping their jobs similar to the auto companies and look at what made Disney legasy great,.The Disney Brothers doing above and beyond, and not just the status quo, nothing will ever change. Problem is that the 30- 50 somethings in charge at the top look at only the numbers because to do anything else might actually make them look at the human cost or benefit without profit. Which by todays buisness standard is outdated, outmoded and might actually make them look at what they did to get to the top and who they actually hurt on their way.