The Couch Question

[PamOKW]

Inspired by KNWVIKING's thread, let's take a level of interest poll among DIS/DVC'ers on the OKW studio question. I'm going to include non-OKW owners' opinions as well.

Per Rich's comment below -- Also keep in mind that this change will result in a change to the bedroom in the lock-off two-bedroom units.

[Beth]

I have mixed emotions on this one...

It's only my DH and me - so really the combination would be better for us - but, like others have said, many purchased with that configuration in place, and it may be a problem for them if it were changed.

And the idea of just changing "some" of the studios wouldn't really work, either - as we all know ... "requests can be accepted, but never guaranteed..."

[vernon]

I don't think it's workable to expect each resort to offer a full range of different layouts, but I do think , maybe, it could be done within the DVC as a whole.
If thought goes into each resort, I think different resorts lend themselves to different ideas.

OKW I'd leave as two queens, the room's extra size don't put space at a premium. IMHO this is basically a family resort and as such the sleeping arangements should reflect this.

BW+BCV I would offer a mix of 2 queens and 1 queen and a sofabed. Being "in the middle of the action" I think these resorts are more likely to attract more couples without kids, the proximity of Epcot and BW's restaurants and clubs being the factor here. But I feel WDW is above all a family destination and ONLY having 1 bed and the sofabed is not ideal for most families.

VWL a mix of 2 queens and 1 queen and single bunkbeds. Again VWL is IMHO more a family resort, offering the bunk beds is an option that is in keeping with the resorts theme, and it gives a useful option to families who have kids that DO NO WANT TO SHARE A BED with each other or those with just one child that would prefer a little more floor space.

I do think a little more could be done than is at present with the layouts. If given a 50% chance of getting something I do want is better than 100% certainty of not getting what I want, I'll take the 50%.

[Granny]

vernon....very thoughtful response! I am of the same opinion that each resort should have its own layout and not as much variety within each resort. Variety just means that much more opportunity to not get what is requested, as Beth summed up nicely.

The bunk beds would have been a really neat option for VWL. I know when we stayed at WL, my DD's really loved the bunk beds. However, I can't see having all the studios with a queen and bunk beds. And if you start offering a mix you end up with the problems cited in the first paragraph.

I like having a pretty good idea of what I'm getting into. Since views, room locations, etc are pretty iffy, I'd hate to add room layouts to my uncertainty.

I voted keep OKW studios the way they are. I've looked at the layouts and they seem pretty neat.

[PamOKW]

Bumping for more opinions.

[Richyams]

Isn't the question wrong?

There are no studios at OKW.

There are second bedrooms that can be locked off and used as studios. The question is really, "Do you want the possibility of having a bed and a sofa in the second bedroom of your two bedroom unit?"

I think this would be a resounding 'no'.

[Sims]

There are no dedicated studios in any of the resorts - are there?
I thought every studio in every resort could be a part of a two bedroom or could be locked off as a studio.
In our case, we just bought into BCV partly because we like the studio set up there. When DH and I are at the World, we can stay in a BCV studio. When we are there with family, we can stay at our OKW resort.

[DVC-Don]

Keep the present layout at OKW. We are looking for a resale at OKW due to the larger rooms and the second bedroom setup.

[PamOKW]

Sims -- You are correct. All the other DVC's already have this set-up in the second bedroom (except for the dedicated two bedrooms.) Rich is also right. This is a consideration when making the change to sofa/bed at OKW.

[DebbieB]

There are no dedicated studios in any of the resorts - are there?

Boardwalk has dedicated studios (also known as "studio plus" with a small daybed where the connecting door would be) and also dedicated 1 bedrooms. We had a dedicated 1 bedroom there the past 2 years.

[DebbieB]

There are no dedicated studios in any of the resorts - are there?

Boardwalk has dedicated studios (also known as "studio plus" with a small daybed where the connecting door would be) and also dedicated 1 bedrooms. We had a dedicated 1 bedroom there the past 2 years. Unlike the other resorts, Boardwalk has no dedicated 2 bedrooms.

[SueM in MN]

I thought that OKW was the only DVC that DID have some dedicated studios? (I don't know about the DVCs outside of WDW)

Anyway, I was curious about where it says that OKW had to have 2 queen size beds. I wondered if it was in writing, so I skimmed thru the Public Offering (I admit to being a little compulsive). On page 208, exhibit 7 of the Public Offering, on page 2 of the Purchase Agreement, it says:
"The Condominium units will have furniture, appliances, equipment and accent furnishings substantially similar to or of equal quality to those shown in the model and on the plans and specifications. Since the models and materials are for display purposes only, the DVD reserves the right to make substitutions of equal or better quality."
The models and floor plans used for selling OKW showed 2 queen beds, so to substitute a hide-a-bed would not be substituting something "substantially similar", especially if it was only full size.

[KNWVIKING]

Well, since I'm being blamed for this post :-) I might as well chime in.

First, I'm confused, is Rich saying there are no dedicated studios ? I can't picture a lock-off door in the last studio we stayed in- maybe it was there and I forgot about it.

Second, I would never be in favor of changing all the studios to a bed/sofa combo, but I believe there are enough members like my DW and I who only need one bed and would rather watch the DVC channel on a couch.

Members on this board love to brag about the flexibility of our DVC members, this would just be an additional flex. And what's the worst that could happen ? It doesn't work out & they switch back to original configuration.

If Rich is right and there are no dedicated studios,then I'll be the first to admit that the bed/sofa combo won't work. It doesn't mean I don't prefer a room with a sofa but I'll acknowledge a rational reason against it. I never excepted the posts about our almighty contract & timeshare law preventing a handfull of rooms from having a sofa and never will. WE own OKW. We can make changes.

And lastly to those who's argument revolves around "you got what you bought so leave it alone": I hope you NEVER say anything negative about OKW.

PS: I also put my money where my mouth is: I bought sofas at VWL and BCV :-}

[SueM in MN]

I never excepted the posts about our almighty contract & timeshare law preventing a handfull of rooms from having a sofa and never will. WE own OKW. We can make changes.

I think the contract DOES say they can't substitute a sofa. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the exact way this all works, but I Do think the contract would prevent Disney from just changing to sofas in, say 10% of rooms. I don't really have an opinion one way or another on the sofa question, so I didn't search the contract hoping to find justification for saying there can never be sofas. I can see merits in having some for people who want that configuration in the room. I'm not saying it never could change, but I think it would have to be voted on and passed by a majority of members. If the majority of members don't agree, it couldn't happen.

[KNWVIKING]

"and accent furnishings substantially similar to or of equal quality to those shown in the model"

SueM, the key word in that phrase is QUALITY. If DVC equiped the model with high QUALITY products, they can't fill the rooms with bargain basement junk.

" the DVD reserves the right to make substitutions of equal or better quality."

Again,QUALITY. Replacing a high quality queen bed with a high quality sofa bed shouldn't be a problem.

"I'm not saying it never could change, but I think it would have to be voted on and passed by a majority of members. If the majority of members don't agree, it couldn't happen."

Absolutely agree. We the members can make changes. Our contract is our protection for quality,prevents DVD from not maintaining the product we purchased.

I know there is a better way to use quotes,just never learned how.

[KarenB]

I'll let you know after we stay there next Saturday!!! :D

[PamOKW]

If Rich is right and there are no dedicated studios

There is a possibility that there might be a very, very few dedicated studios but 99% (or more) are lock-offs. I may have had one studio that didn't have the door, but I'm not 100% positive.

[KNWVIKING]

Although I would like to see a bed/sofa combo offered,I will say this:

MS will not guarantee room requests. If I requested a combo room but got a double queen room- no big deal to me.
But if someone requested & needed a double queen but got a combo room I could understand their irratation.If DVD were to offer combos,I would rather be too few combos for guest like myself then not enough double queen rooms.

[CarolAnnC]

I like it just the way it is! :) :)

[KNWVIKING]

CarolAnnK,

Try not to be sooo long winded with your posts :-)

[SueM in MN]

From the Public Offering"The Condominium units will have furniture, appliances, equipment and accent furnishings substantially similar to or of equal quality to those shown in the model and on the plans and specifications. Since the models and materials are for display purposes only, the DVD reserves the right to make substitutions of equal or better quality."
From another post SueM, the key word in that phrase is QUALITY. If DVC equiped the model with high QUALITY products, they can't fill the rooms with bargain basement junk....Again,QUALITY. Replacing a high quality queen bed with a high quality sofa bed shouldn't be a problem.

I respectfully disagree that they are talking about just QUALITY. The model, plans and specifications for OKW showed 2 queen size beds, actual beds. The models, plans and specifications are part of the offering. They are there to prevent the seller from substituting something that may be of similar quality, but is not the same thing as was sold to you. For example, the DVC 1 and 2 bedroom units have a whirlpool tub in the models. If this language only applied to quality, they could substitute a high quality regular tub for the high quality whirlpool. In fact, they could probably find a regular tub that costs the same as the whirlpool tub that is in the units. A tub for a tub. Same as a sofa bed for a bed.

Again, I'm not saying they could not put sofa beds in the OKW units, just that I DO think the contract doesn't allow it unless the owners vote to do it.

[CarolAnnC]

CarolAnnK,

Try not to be sooo long winded with your posts :-)



Yup, direct and to the point, that is me, LOL!! Plus, I know I can count on you KNWViking to carry on the discussion here. :)

[PamOKW]

We'll see where this ends up, but currently 22 of 34 OKW owners who responded want to keep it as is. That's 65%.

It's funny how the informal polls we do on the questions that were asked in the DVC survey of quite a few years back tend to still reflect the results of those surveys. Our discussion sometimes seem to indicate that a change is desired but when a poll is taken, the results closely match the results of a few years back -- leave the beds and don't add a slide. Personally, I'm really surprised how they come out.

[vernon]

In the past the DVD has altered the units and taken away some of the bits and bobs of what was in the models and promotional material, I don't think there is anything that stops the DVC management from exchanging a bed for a sofabed in say 25% of the units any more than downgrading shower curtains, shower heads, doing away with ornaments, coasters, etc etc which have all been done. Disney wrote itself maximum flexibility into it's contracts so it has a lot of room to alter the specifics of the rooms and it has no legal requirement to ask the members for their agreement.

One can argue the semantics of a queenbed, bunkbeds and a sofabed being "substantially similar to or of equal quality to those shown in the model". I have no doubts that the types of lawyers Disney uses would not have any problems persueing the arguement that the DVC units are a hotel room and that for the purpose of sleeping four gusts all of the above options cover that basic requirement. You only need look at the rough poll here to see that a reasonable number of the membership would have no problem with altering the basic offerings, indeed by broadening the choice Disney could argue they are enrichening the guests experiences.

[SueM in MN]

I would argue though that changing the shower curtain , shower head or coasters doesn't have the same impact on the use of the unit that changing the sleeping accomidations. Those things are also not included in the specifications and plans like the beds are.

[robinb]

I own at OKW (and soon also at BWV) and we are a family of 3. We have stayed in OKW studios and also recently at VWL in a studio. I really, really, really liked having the extra room when the couch was folded up. My DD could spread out and play with her toys. We could sit or lounge on the couch and stretch out our legs. IMO, a couch instead made the room a lot more open, more comfortable and more flexible. When I stayed at OKW I felt there was really nowhere to sit and relax. Sure, there are table and chairs in the room and there is the porch, but I guess I really like couches :).

I would love it if some or all of the studios were changed over to a sofabed configuration. I actually ended up sleeping on the sofabed one night because my 2 year old insisted that I sleep with her. It was not that uncomfortable :).

[DeeP]

I can see where a family that was using the studio as the 2nd BR would definitely prefer the 2 beds vs the sofabed but for small parties of 1-3 people it is really nice to have the extra room when the sofabed is folded up. It also makes the room feel so much bigger and more like a studio apt vs a BR. It would be nice if there could be a choice of either 2 beds or 1 bed and a sofabed but I think Disney has enough problems trying to accommondate guest's requests without having this additional request to worry about. I also think Disney could very easily switch from 2 beds to 1 bed and a sofabed without violating any rules, etc. The studios are supposed to sleep 4 people. as long as bedding for 4 people is provided they are not violating anything. We might own DVC memberships but they own the resort.

[Lesley]

Having stayed in an OKW studio and a BWV studio with my family of 4....I must say I prefer the OKW studio! Playing with the fold out every day wasn't fun! But my opinion of the BWV studio is a bit clouded, I'll admit, because we spent 4-5 days sick in there!

I can see where someday dh and I might stay in a studio by ourselves and a sofa will be preferable...and it will certainly be nice for my parents when they come with us in December (in a 2br....they get the studio portion).

Actually I think its nice to have the 2 beds option at OKW and the sofa/bed option elsewhere...just one more factor that goes into choosing which resort to stay at!

[PamOKW]

Actually I think its nice to have the 2 beds option at OKW and the sofa/bed option elsewhere...just one more factor that goes into choosing which resort to stay at!

I agree.

[SueM in MN]

I agree with Pam and Lesley.
The last time we were at WDW, we stayed in a 2 BR for part of the time at VWL. My MIL and FIL were in the "studio" part and it was nice for them to have a couch. If there were 4 people staying in that room though, it would be nicer to have 2 beds. My DD and a friend slept on the fold out couch-bed in the living room at VWL and when we switched to OKW. They didn't really like having to unfold their bed every night and fold it back up in the morning.
I would rather know before I check in what sort of arrangement there is, so it is nice in that was that OKW is different. I suppose if they do change, you could always specify which is your preference, but that's not a sure thing.

[Deb & Bill]

The OKW Studios have lots of floor space - probably even more than the BWV, VWL and BCVs do with the sofa bed closed up. We have the majority of our points at OKW (300) with 100 each at VWL and BCV. If we ever have so few points we can only stay at the VWL or BCV studio, we will stay in an OKW studio or one-bedroom instead. I want my two queen sized beds. I'd hate to have one of the queen beds removed and replaced with a double sofa bed. They couldn't fit a queen sofa bed in the same space. That is probably the real question. Not so much the quality of the sofa bed vs the quality of the queen bed, but the size of the beds.