DISUK Book Club -Too Close to Home, Linwood Barclay [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

Dimplenose

04-01-2009, 02:31 AM

It seems as though enough of us would like to have a book club to make it work. I've had enough suggestion to create a 6 month list. If this works I'll ask for more titles during August to create the next list.)

April - 'We need to talk about Kevin' by Lionel Shriver(discuss from 1st May)
May - The Voluptuous Delights of Peanut Butter and Jam by Lauren Liebenberg (discuss from 1st June)
June - Lucky by Alice Sebold (Discuss from 1st July)
July-The price of love by Nikola T.James (Discuss from 1st August)
August - Ninteen minutes by Jodi Picoult (discuss 1st September)
September - Too Close to Home, Linwood Barclay(discuss from 1st October)

The discussion for Too Close to Home has started on post #182.

Don't forget the new bookclub list can be found on this thread New DISUK Booclub List (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2289862)

This thread is getting too many book suggestions so I've started a new thread for them
Book Suggestions Thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=32257877#post32257877)

natalielongstaff

04-01-2009, 02:33 AM

Can i suggest, too close to home, linwood barclay for June :)

Dimplenose

04-01-2009, 02:37 AM

Can i suggest, too close to home, linwood barclay for June :)

Thanks, I'll add it to the list now.

natalielongstaff

04-01-2009, 02:39 AM

Thanks, I'll add it to the list now.

great,thank you :thumbsup2

higgy66

04-01-2009, 03:49 AM

Off to search out the first book now.

Can't wait! :thumbsup2

Pinky166

04-01-2009, 04:03 AM

Sorry Libby I forgot to add some books to the list, here's one for now. Lucky by Alice Seabold. :)

thelittlemermaid83

04-01-2009, 04:30 AM

Sorry Libby I forgot to add some books to the list, here's one for now. Lucky by Alice Seabold. :)

Thats a great book Claire :goodvibes

Can i suggest The price of love by Nikola T.James?

I'm off to find the latest book.

jjk

04-01-2009, 04:39 AM

can I suggest Ninteen minutes by Jodi Picoult

wideeyes

04-01-2009, 08:07 AM

I am not going to be able to take part this month as I have a dissertation and exams to study for so any reading I will be doing will be my unit reading.

my suggestion is Nervous Conditions -Tsitsi Dangarembga,

Dimplenose

04-01-2009, 12:10 PM

Thanks for your suggestions - I've added thefirst ones to the list. Interestingly it contains two books that I have purposley decided not to read in the past, but I'll give them a go as it will be interesting to see if the books are more appealing than their blurb makes out.

Wideeyes, if you don't mind, I'll not add any more titles for a few months - this will give time for the club to establish and for more titles to come out in paperback, but do remind me of your title in August when I plan to write the new list.

Have fun everyone.

ETA Quite a few of these books seem to have quite disturbing plots - I think we might need to get a better balance for the next list.

saratogagirl

04-01-2009, 12:39 PM

I shall order the first one this evening, looking forward to this

natalielongstaff

04-01-2009, 12:49 PM

:lmao: disturbing plots, that says a lot for our state of mind !!!

jen_uk

04-01-2009, 12:50 PM

ETA Quite a few of these books seem to have quite disturbing plots - I think we might need to get a better balance for the next list.

Oh dear that says alot about us doesn't it!! :rotfl2:

thelittlemermaid83

04-01-2009, 01:04 PM

:rotfl2::rotfl2:

avviexxx

04-01-2009, 01:15 PM

Hey. So want to take part will only be able to read the first book (hopefully) as im going to WDW in 3weeks + moving out of country in May x

mommyoftwinfants

04-01-2009, 03:09 PM

Anyone have an old copy of The Common Lawyer by Mark Gimenez. I have read his first two books but for some reason the other two are not published here in the US. I used to love reading but when I had my twins there was just no time to read. I just started back up and discovered Mark Gimenez and would love to read his other two books. Thanks mommyoftwinfants. :)

wishspirit

04-01-2009, 06:53 PM

Ohh! Can I join? I think my mother has a copy of 'We need to talk about Kevin', this sounds like a great club! :thumbsup2

Looking forward to the first thread! :goodvibes

Dimplenose

04-02-2009, 02:16 AM

Ohh! Can I join?

Everyone is welcome - even if they can't join in every month.:)

Minniespal

04-02-2009, 03:15 AM

I'm off on holiday from next Monday. Hopefully I can get Mays book read whilst I'm away.

natalielongstaff

04-02-2009, 05:21 AM

ive just got my copy of we need to talk about kevin, a lady in wh smith stopped me to tell me how much she enjoyed it !!

dolphingirl47

04-02-2009, 06:56 AM

I think I have a copy of "We need to talk about Kevin" somewhere. I better find this.

Corinna

wideeyes

04-02-2009, 09:32 AM

For anyone who is a fan and lives in the Manchester area, I saw today while there that Jodi Picoult is doing a book signing at Boarders in Stockport on the 4th May at 4pm, I recalled that she is one of the authors mentioned on here as being a fave so thought I would mention it.

My sister met Jacqueline Wilson at the same store a few years ago.

Dimplenose

04-03-2009, 02:11 AM

My sister met Jacqueline Wilson at the same store a few years ago.

She is fairly local to where I live - a friend and her daughter queued for hours at a book shop to get her autograph.

The saddest signing I saw was about 25 years ago in Rackhams in Birmingham where Alan Wicker was signing his book - but there wasn't a soul waiting to see him.

natalielongstaff

04-03-2009, 02:12 AM

The saddest signing I saw was about 25 years ago in Rackhams in Birmingham where Alan Wicker was signing his book - but there wasn't a soul waiting to see him.

:lmao:

scotlass

04-05-2009, 05:13 PM

Has anyone bought used books from Amazon ?

We must talk about Kevin is only 1p (£2.75 postage)

Dimplenose

04-10-2009, 03:22 AM

Just a little bump in case anyone else wishes to join in.

Dimplenose

04-21-2009, 10:50 AM

I'm giving this a last bump. Discussions begin at the end of next week.

Any ideas on how to run the discussion would be welcome - do we want to just each write a review and see if any discussion points come up or do we want to be more focussed?

There were some questions for book clubs at the back of my copy - we could start with those or just use them as a backup if we run out of things to say. Let me know what you think.

natalielongstaff

04-21-2009, 10:53 AM

There were some questions for book clubs at the back of my copy - we could start with those .

that sounds good to me :thumbsup2

dolphingirl47

04-24-2009, 07:38 AM

I also like the idea of using the questions at the end of the book as a starting point for our discussion. I should finish the book over the weekend.

Corinna

Dimplenose

04-30-2009, 05:37 PM

I'm a day early but I have time to post right now so I'm going to open May's discusiion now.

I think it would be good to start with a brief outline of how you liked the book or not.

Then we can continue with the questions that are at the end of the paperback copy. I'll post one a day for the next few days, but do feel free to answer at any time and in any order (I hope that make sense.) If this doesn't work or if anyone can think of a better way to hold "meetings" please let me know.

The first question is
"Was Kevin just born wicked, or is his cold heart the inevitable consequence of an unaffectionate mother? Does the novel answer this question? And do you think the answer to this clasic "nature verses nurture" debate - whether character is formed by one's environment or is innate - has to be one or the other?"

Dimplenose

04-30-2009, 05:45 PM

Here are my first general thoughts about the novel.

I’m not really sure how to start writing about this book as I had such mixed feelings about it.

My first shock was finding out that Lionel Shriver is a woman! (Ironic that the previous book I’d been reading was Brideshead Revisted by Evelyn Waugh.)

As a piece of writing I didn’t like “We Need to Talk about Kevin”. I found it too full of words I didn’t know (so many that I stopped looking them up and just read around them to get the gist of the meaning) and expressions I didn’t understand – probably very clear to American readers but a mystery to me. I also found that the sentence structure was awkward (again probably due to it being American English) and I frequently had to reread sentences – sometimes out loud – to know what Lionel Shriver had meant. Together these irritations led to a rather stilted read.

After about 50 pages I had decided that I definitely didn’t like this book but then I realised that I was actually getting very emotional about the characters. My sympathy swung quite violently between Eva and Franklin (and later between the children) so I must admit that Shriver certainly had a great power over me as a reader.

dolphingirl47

04-30-2009, 06:07 PM

It took me ages to get into it. For the first 200 pages I only stuck it out because I had committed myself to it. After that I could not put the book down. This is not a book I would have chosen to read if it had not been for this thread, but I am glad that I did.

As to the question, normally I am weighing in on the nurture side of the nature versus nurture debate, but this book kind of changed my mind. So I think the answer to the last part of the question is that a personally of a person can be formed by a mixture of nature and nurture. I don't think that the book really answers the question if Kevin was born evil or turned evil due to things going on in his life. As the story is told from the point of view of Eva, there is really no way to settle this. However, I had the feeling that Kevin was evil from the beginning. Although I am aware that it was Eva who told the stories and she might have altered them to fit her purpose, she was not the only one who noticed that Kevin had a nasty streak. Even good natured Siobhan gave up in the end. I think that Eva was so cold towards Kevin, because he did have a pronounced evil streak right from the beginning. She proved that she had a very loving side with Celia.

Corinna

natalielongstaff

05-01-2009, 02:09 AM

I agree with both of you ! initially i hated the book and yes it was hard to understand the writings meaning in places.

i also swung between how i felt for the characters but in the end i came to dislike both kevin and his mum, i felt that Evelyn made it clear from a young age how much she despised kevin and this helped contribute to the angry boy he became.

I also found it hard to like hid dad as he came across as a bit spineless !

ooh i sound rather harsh now :rotfl2:

Dimplenose

05-01-2009, 11:01 AM

I also found that the book became more readableat page 200. (Page 150 is usually my absolute limit before I abandon a book so if it wasn't for this book club I would have never finished it.)

The nature verses nurture debate always seems a question that can never be answered fully. Kevin being a fictional character makes this even more difficult to decide. I do think he had some innate problem which caused problems with social situations and relationships. I don't think his mother's coldness towards him helped at all but I feel he would have had problems anyway.

natalielongstaff

05-01-2009, 11:19 AM

I don't think his mother's coldness towards him helped at all but I feel he would have had problems anyway.

i agree, even as a small child he had some serious issues relating to relationships with others

higgy66

05-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Hi

I have to confess I haven't fnished the book and to be honest this is the first book that I've ever struggled to get into. Far too many words used which makes it confusing and I don't think it flows well.

However, after reading the comments above I will persevere and then look back at your comments.

Please tell me this months is going to be easier :rotfl:

jen_uk

05-01-2009, 12:24 PM

The first time I read the book I hated it for the first few chapters but then when I got used to the style it was written it I couldn't put it down. Being a psychology teacher I loved the nature/nurture debate in the book, I started off thinking that Kevil must have been born evil but by the end I coudn't help thinking his mum made him the way he was. She didn't like being pregnant and I thinkeven as a young child Kevin picked up on her dislike for him. I found the shooting really shocking, I can't imagine living in a country where this actually happens.

joolz1910

05-01-2009, 12:45 PM

natalielongstaff

05-01-2009, 12:47 PM

Please tell me this months is going to be easier :rotfl:

I hope so, im hoping to get my copy in Leicester on Monday :thumbsup2

Dimplenose

05-01-2009, 12:52 PM

I hope so, im hoping to get my copy in Leicester on Monday :thumbsup2

I bought mine on offer in Tesco. (£3.75 I think.)

Dimplenose

05-01-2009, 12:53 PM

Shall I add the next question?

natalielongstaff

05-01-2009, 01:06 PM

Shall I add the next question?

yes please :thumbsup2

natalielongstaff

05-01-2009, 01:10 PM

I bought mine on offer in Tesco. (£3.75 I think.)

:thumbsup2 ive ordered it (3.86)

Dimplenose

05-01-2009, 01:17 PM

jen_uk

05-01-2009, 01:31 PM

Part of me thinks that she was seeing things in Kevin that weren't really there, she disliked him before he as even born. On the other hand can an uncaring mother make someone do someting so awful??? What he did was so terrible that maybe that kind of evil has to be in someone to start with :confused3

Dimplenose

05-01-2009, 01:52 PM

I felt that she was obsessed with Franklin rather than Kevin. She wanted to be his little girl and the centre of his universe whilst still following her career (although that seemed to be an obsession with proving she was not an agraphobic herself).

I don't think she exaggerated Kevin's malignancy rather she focussed on it to the exclusion of other parts of his character.

Did she foresee Thursday? I'm not sure that she did - or if she did it wasn't a strong enough conviction to prevent Kevin from not merely owning a crossbow but being allowed to use it unsupervised.

joolz1910

05-01-2009, 02:23 PM

I don't think she was an uncaring mother - I think she cared for Kevin - I think she just didn't like him and felt guilty because of it.

The ending proves that she loves him. Despite what he has done to Franklin and Celia (not to mention Thursday) she still stands by him - surely that is unconditional love?

She is an unreliable narrator because she resents Kevin so much. I suppose if someone you knew did something horrific, you would dissect every 'evil' deed they ever did to look for evidence of innate evil. As it is written in retrospect, her first point of reference is what he did on that fateful day - every previous event is coloured by what he eventually did.

Dimplenose

05-01-2009, 02:53 PM

. As it is written in retrospect, her first point of reference is what he did on that fateful day - every previous event is coloured by what he eventually did.

That's a very good point.

dolphingirl47

05-01-2009, 07:04 PM

"Do you completely trust Eva's version of events? More than once she admits that she was mistaken about something she had assumed that Kevin dis. Is she perhaps exaggerating her son's malignancy to make herself seem less blameworthy, or was she just the only party in this story who foresaw what he was capable of well in advance of Thursday?"

I don't completely trust Eva's version of events. She is too involved in what is going on to be objective. However, I don't think that she painting Kevin in a worse light in order to make herself look better. I also don't think she had a clue that Thursday would happen. For what it is worth, I think that her account is accurate as far as she recalls it, but as she is involved in it, it will always be coloured by her experience rather than being an objective account.

Corinna

Dimplenose

05-02-2009, 03:26 AM

"Do you think that Kevin was guilty of damaging his little sister's eye? If so, what evidence do you find for this assumption? Would it stand up in court?

natalielongstaff

05-02-2009, 03:30 AM

jen_uk

05-02-2009, 05:30 AM

"Do you think that Kevin was guilty of damaging his little sister's eye? If so, what evidence do you find for this assumption? Would it stand up in court?

I think he did do that, the way she described his behaviour after seems like he was happy it had happened.

joolz1910

05-02-2009, 05:38 AM

Again, I think Eva is re-examining past events in light of what he eventually did. Many siblings cause accidents to happen to younger children - kids do get hurt. We are seeing this from Eva's perspective and she thinks Kevin is responsible for everything that goes wrong. It wouldn't hold up in court because there is no evidence that Kevin did it and Celia wouldn't have testified against him.

Dimplenose

05-02-2009, 07:17 AM

Please be aware I've changed the order of the reading list in my first post. One of the books won't be available in paperback until July 23rd so I've moved it to September and shuffled everything up by a month.

Dimplenose

05-02-2009, 07:20 AM

"Do you think that Kevin was guilty of damaging his little sister's eye? If so, what evidence do you find for this assumption? Would it stand up in court?

I think he was capable of doing it but I don't have any evidence. Eva was very insistant that she'd put the cleaning solution away - but a bit too insistant for me to believe that she actually did.

Dimplenose

05-02-2009, 11:51 AM

"Franklin always looks on the bright side of parenthood, and interprets whatever Kevin gets up to in the most favourable light possible. Do you find this eagerness to forgive his own child a break sypathetic? Or is Franklin a fool?

joolz1910

05-02-2009, 12:03 PM

I think Franklin's parenting is potentially as damaging as Eva's. He is too indulgent and as a result, Kevin has no respect for him whatsoever. I found Franklin quite frustrating when I read the book. He seemed to subtly undermine Eva at every turn. I realise he is trying to compensate for Eva and Shriver is representing Eva's antithesis but I found his cheery hair-ruffling approach grating.:rotfl: Both Eva and Franklin are trying to 'act' like good parents - neither of them seem to particularly like Kevin.

Dimplenose

05-02-2009, 12:16 PM

I was very aware that this was written from Eva's viewpoint. It's so easy to accuse your partner of indulgence just because he doesn't treat your child in the same way that you do. Eva even went so far as to say that Kevin was playing at enjoying being with his dad and that it wasn't the "real Kevin" at all.

I felt that Eva was jealous of the attention that Kevin got from Franklin. There probably was a lot of truth in what Eva said, but the more I analyse the book the less I trust Eva's version of events.

I don't think Franklin was a fool but he must have been fed up with constantly coming home to reports of Kevin's wrong doing from Eva.

jen_uk

05-02-2009, 12:56 PM

joolz1910

05-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Was anyone else surprised that Eva told Kevin he could return home when he got out of prison? I don't have kids so I have never felt mothers love (although I do adore my Jack Russell :lmao:) but I can't imagine letting my child home if they did that, surely you could never feel safe again? :confused3

That is why I think she really loved him. Despite everything, she wanted him back - unconditional love. It really surprised me that Shriver has no children because she writes so convincingly as a mother - in a weird way.:rotfl:

I suppose his actions left Eva with nothing. It was either the ultimate punishment of her, or a guarantee that he would finally have her to himself.

wideeyes

05-02-2009, 01:26 PM

Dimplenose

05-02-2009, 05:15 PM

I'm not going to be able to post again until Monday evening so I'll pose a couple more of the questions from the book tonight. If anyone else has the edition with the reading group questions at the back then please feel free to post the questions yourself, otherwise you'll have to wait for the next batch.

"We're often most repelled by people who share our own flaws. Eva confesses that she never really liked her son. But what are some of the traits that Kevin and his mother have in common?"

"Why do people have children, when kids are expensive and exhausting, and the risks of something going wrong are so high?"

dolphingirl47

05-03-2009, 06:38 PM

"Do you think that Kevin was guilty of damaging his little sister's eye? If so, what evidence do you find for this assumption? Would it stand up in court?

i struggled with this one, i beleive he did it with all my being but we are not actually given conclusive proof ! in my mind he is indeed guilty of this but i can't prove it with the evidence we are given.

Celuia is a timid child and i think kevin had a hold over her so much that she would have done it if he told her too

I am with Natalie on this one. I am absolutely convinced he did it, but have no proof. The closest to proof that we come is that Celia suddenly seems to avoid her brother when previously she adored him.

"Franklin always looks on the bright side of parenthood, and interprets whatever Kevin gets up to in the most favourable light possible. Do you find this eagerness to forgive his own child a break sypathetic? Or is Franklin a fool?

I am not sure that I would go as far as calling him a fool, but he definitely seems to have the rose coloured glasses on as far as Kevin is concerned. He is subscribing to the view "boys will be boys" and explains everything that Kevin does with that. I think he projects an image of himself as a boy on Kevin rather than actually seeing him as a person in his own right.

I'm not going to be able to post again until Monday evening so I'll pose a couple more of the questions from the book tonight. If anyone else has the edition with the reading group questions at the back then please feel free to post the questions yourself, otherwise you'll have to wait for the next batch.

"We're often most repelled by people who share our own flaws. Eva confesses that she never really liked her son. But what are some of the traits that Kevin and his mother have in common?"

Both find it hard to relate properly to other people and both appear to be cold

"Why do people have children, when kids are expensive and exhausting, and the risks of something going wrong are so high?"

That is the big question and one I have asked myself plenty of times. That is the one area were I can really understand Eva. I think I would feel the same about having to give up my job and sharing DH with somebody else, but unlike Eva I have drawn the consequences from the fact that I am simply not mother material and won't have any children.

Corinna

natalielongstaff

05-04-2009, 02:59 AM

"Why do people have children, when kids are expensive and exhausting, and the risks of something going wrong are so high?"

I think many people go into having kids with rose coloured ideals, other children behave badly through bad parenting and therefore your parenting will be great and your children angels

Also being a parent is a steep learning curve and we learn from our mistakes... so until you make them its imposible to know what impact it may have

joolz1910

05-04-2009, 04:49 AM

I think many people go into having kids with rose coloured ideals, other children behave badly through bad parenting and therefore your parenting will be great and your children angels

Also being a parent is a steep learning curve and we learn from our mistakes... so until you make them its imposible to know what impact it may have

Wise words.

I think the answer lies with Shriver herself. In interviews she is unequivocal about her distaste for motherhood. I think Shriver was trying to show the potential damage that can be done when you have a 'reluctant' mother. She says her own mother was devastated when she fell pregnant with her older brother...

My personal opinion is that the rewards (for me) far outweigh the expense, exhaustion and potential to go wrong.

joolz1910

05-05-2009, 09:16 AM

We are doing 'Lucky' next, aren't we?

I saw it online for £5. I was in town, so I popped into Waterstones to buy it - the store price was £7.99. I told her it was £5 at their online store. She said the prices were often different. Well, I opted to buy it online for £5, with free UK delivery, points on my Waterstones card and 10% off with Quidco. And they wonder why highstreet stores are closing down...:confused3

Dimplenose

05-05-2009, 11:45 AM

Dimplenose

05-05-2009, 11:49 AM

Dimplenose

05-05-2009, 11:52 AM

I must admit that the page 200 revelation when the book suddenly became a much easier read was partly due to it dawning on me at this point that Franklin was dead. I then became keen to know how he died and why Eva didn't have custody of Celia.

(I'd assumed that Franklin couldn't cope with the aftermath of Thursday and had killed himself and his daughter.)

natalielongstaff

05-05-2009, 12:06 PM

"While you were reading the novel, did you ever wonder what Franklin was doin, and why he never seemed to write back to Eva?
[/B]

Yes.... i was not surprised by the fact that he had died !

jen_uk

05-05-2009, 12:09 PM

I thought that Franklin had left Eva and the letters she was writing were a way of asking him to come back, I was really shocked when it turned out he was dead.

I'm really torn over whether she should have been sued, I do think its partly her responsibility though. In other school shootings if the weapon was left lying around in the house and easily available to the child then I think the parents have to accept responsibilty.

Dimplenose

05-05-2009, 12:22 PM

I'm really torn over whether she should have been sued, I do think its partly her responsibility though. In other school shootings if the weapon was left lying around in the house and easily available to the child then I think the parents have to accept responsibilty.

In Kevin's case he was given the weapon as a hobby. Perhaps Franklin was more to blame - although he wasn't sueable owing to his death.

Dimplenose

05-06-2009, 01:59 AM

Does the novel explain why high school killings have become a social phenomenom in the United States? And did you want an explanation?

Is Eva a bad mother? Is she too hard on herself, or is she not hard enough?

What do you believe ultimately motivated Kevin to stage Thursday?

These are the last questions in the book. Feel free to ask your own otherwise I'll see you in June when we disuss The Voluptuous Delights of Peanut Butter and Jam by Lauren Liebenberg .

dolphingirl47

05-06-2009, 05:07 AM

Do we want to carry on with the Kevin questions? If so here are the next two:-

"While you were reading the novel, did you ever wonder what Franklin was doin, and why he never seemed to write back to Eva?

"Eva was sued in civil court for being a negligent parent. Many school shooting incidents have resulted in similar suits. If you were the jusdge in that case, what ruling would you have handed down? Are there any other parties in this story who seem to you conspicuously remiss?

I never realised until literally a couple of pages before it was revealed that Franklin was dead. I assumed that he simply could not forgive her for being so critical of Kevin and that he blamed her for what happened. So I just assumed that he left her and somehow got custody of Celia.

I don't think it was fair that Eva was sued. She was the only one who had some idea what kind of personality Kevin had and nobody believed her. If anybody is to blame then it is Franklin for turning a blind eye to what Kevin is really like and even buying the crossbow against Eva's wishes.

Corinna

wilma-bride

05-07-2009, 01:25 PM

natalielongstaff

05-07-2009, 01:30 PM

I might join in with you all next month, if that's OK - I'm afraid I really didn't enjoy this month's book (read it a few months back) so didn't feel qualified to join in. Some of the future books look good though so if am allowed to dip in and out, I would like to join you :)

ive started reading peanut butter and jam, its quite hard going :sad2:

joolz1910

05-07-2009, 01:44 PM

I might join in with you all next month, if that's OK - I'm afraid I really didn't enjoy this month's book (read it a few months back) so didn't feel qualified to join in. Some of the future books look good though so if am allowed to dip in and out, I would like to join you :)

Oh blimey. I seem to have breached etiquette here.:rotfl: Sorry, I didn't know you had to sign up, I just jumped in. Can I do the same as Wilma-bride and dip in and out? Bit too late for me to ask...:rolleyes1

natalielongstaff

05-07-2009, 01:48 PM

Dimplenose

05-07-2009, 02:26 PM

Oh blimey. I seem to have breached etiquette here.:rotfl: Sorry, I didn't know you had to sign up, I just jumped in. Can I do the same as Wilma-bride and dip in and out? Bit too late for me to ask...:rolleyes1

I didn't think we had any etiquette here. Anyone can pop in and out - it does help if you've read that month's book:). it's nice to get different points of view.

The more people the merrier.

higgy66

05-07-2009, 02:52 PM

I've just finished it - I'm so glad I read your comments and stuck with it as after page 60 I couldn't put it down! Just thought I'd add my thoughts - get in practice for the next book!

The first question is
"Was Kevin just born wicked, or is his cold heart the inevitable consequence of an unaffectionate mother? Does the novel answer this question? And do you think the answer to this clasic "nature verses nurture" debate - whether character is formed by one's environment or is innate - has to be one or the other?"[/QUOTE]

Throughout the book I kept swinging from Kevin being born evil to turning evil. However, I came to the conclusion that the rejection from his mother from birth and the way his father compensated by smothering him definitely had a part to play. You know yourself when babies cry if you pick them up and talk soothingly to them they stop - but if you're tired and fraught then they pick up on that and cry even more.

Eva definitely treated Kevin badly from the start and no baby deserves to be treated in such a way. All he had done was reject her when she tried feeding him - big deal - hardly "evil" get over it Eva! She was so self centred and obsessed with her life and with Franklin that I feel she was heavily to blame.

How can somebody go from wanting children to - as soon as Frankiln says yes she changed her mind in an instant!

"Do you completely trust Eva's version of events? More than once she admits that she was mistaken about something she had assumed that Kevin dis. Is she perhaps exaggerating her son's malignancy to make herself seem less blameworthy, or was she just the only party in this story who foresaw what he was capable of well in advance of Thursday?"

I do believe Eva's version of events however, we can all see events differently but as she was so intent on Kevin being evil she always assumed the worse rather than be proved he was guilty as charged.

"Do you think that Kevin was guilty of damaging his little sister's eye? If so, what evidence do you find for this assumption? Would it stand up in court?

Yes I do think he was guilty and I can't believe as parents that neither of them gave Celia the third degree! Are you telling me you wouldn't want to know EXACTLY what happened. She was 6 years old and a 6 year old can communicate what went on.

"Franklin always looks on the bright side of parenthood, and interprets whatever Kevin gets up to in the most favourable light possible. Do you find this eagerness to forgive his own child a break sypathetic? Or is Franklin a fool?

I found it frustrating! Having said that - we're only seeing things from Eva's point of view. As parents if you don't think your child is evil you would try to see things in the most favouravble light - nobody wants to believe their kids done something wrong but hey guys - how many times does it take to wake up and smell the coffee! :confused3

"We're often most repelled by people who share our own flaws. Eva confesses that she never really liked her son. But what are some of the traits that Kevin and his mother have in common?"

"Why do people have children, when kids are expensive and exhausting, and the risks of something going wrong are so high?"

They were both slighly "up" themselves and thought they were better than your average Joe Black

Beats me! OMG what have I done! :scared1:

Do we want to carry on with the Kevin questions? If so here are the next two:-

"While you were reading the novel, did you ever wonder what Franklin was doin, and why he never seemed to write back to Eva?

"Eva was sued in civil court for being a negligent parent. Many school shooting incidents have resulted in similar suits. If you were the jusdge in that case, what ruling would you have handed down? Are there any other parties in this story who seem to you conspicuously remiss?

To be honest about 1/2 way through I guessed he was dead but I had no idea that Kevin had done it until the final chapters and it featured that "Thursday"

As a judge you would not have sight to Eva's confessional letters so on that basis you would find them not guilty - you can't blame parents for what their kids do? However, had I been the judge with access to the details within the book I'd have sent her down! :rotfl: How can any mother take an instant dislike to a poor defenceless baby who's only need is the love and care of it's mother. She was so self centred and obssessed with her own needs and wants that Kevin never standed a chance - her obsession with Franklin was poor Kevin's downfall.

Having said that it's still no excuse to kill anybody.

Can I go now Miss! :rotfl:

Dimplenose

05-08-2009, 12:08 PM

I'm glad we inspired you to finish it. I must admit I look at awkward children in a slightly different light now!

Dimplenose

05-15-2009, 05:19 PM

We're halfway through May now, so I'm just giving this a bump.

natalielongstaff

05-15-2009, 05:46 PM

ok, i will confess i have given up on this months book...not my cup of tea at all :confused3

higgy66

05-16-2009, 08:39 AM

ok, i will confess i have given up on this months book...not my cup of tea at all :confused3

Oh no - don't say that - I've just gone and picked a copy up from the library as they ordered it in for me.

As I only have a couple of weeks left I was quite pleased to see its a thinner book than last time! :rotfl:

Could I make a suggestion - could we swap the nineteen minutes - Jodi Picoult for one of her others as it's a very similar theme to "we need to talk about Kevin" "My Sisters Keeper" is a very good one and an unusual theme.

Dimplenose

05-16-2009, 11:35 AM

Oh no - don't say that - I've just gone and picked a copy up from the library as they ordered it in for me.

As I only have a couple of weeks left I was quite pleased to see its a thinner book than last time! :rotfl:

Could I make a suggestion - could we swap the nineteen minutes - Jodi Picoult for one of her others as it's a very similar theme to "we need to talk about Kevin" "My Sisters Keeper" is a very good one and an unusual theme.

Don't worry I'm reading it, at least there will be two of us to discuss it!!

As for Nineteen Minutes, I'm loathe to change a book in case people have already gone out to buy it - however if a lot of people want me to change it I will. But it might make for an interesting discussion to read two books with a similar subject matter.

dolphingirl47

05-16-2009, 06:00 PM

I still have not managed to get the book. I have been to Waterstone's so many times over the last couple of weeks, but I always forget to write the title down and can never remember it. I have to make a concerted effort on my day off on Tuesday. I will be on a cruise for a week from next week Sunday so hopefully I have time to read then.

Corinna

dolphingirl47

05-19-2009, 05:39 PM

I finally got the book for this month today. I have to finish the book I am currently reading and then this is coming on the cruise with me. I should have it read in no time.

Corinna

higgy66

05-20-2009, 12:17 PM

I picked this book up on Saturday and finished it yesterday. Now I'll have to get organised and get next months ordered from the library. :thumbsup2

Dimplenose

05-31-2009, 04:29 PM

The Voluptious Delights of Peanut Butter and Jelly.

Discussions for this book begin tomorrow. I don't have any specific questions for this book but I do have some generic suggestions for book club discussions that I found on the internet. Perhaps we could start with our general feelings about the book and then I could use some of the questions.

If anyone wants to throw in a question along the way please do so.

I'm still writing my "review" but I must say I have very mixed feelings about the book, the characters and the storyline.

See you tomorrow.

natalielongstaff

06-01-2009, 02:26 AM

I will be interested to hear what others thought about the book :)

Dimplenose

06-01-2009, 05:07 AM

I had mixed feelings about this book.

My first problem was that I didn’t know how to pronounce “Cia” which irritated me a little.

I enjoyed reading the book – I loved the way the author brought to life the world the girls lived in. The way that the most important things to them were not connected to the major political unrest their country was going through but instead flights to fairy land or gaining the most territory in the back seat of the car.

It was interesting the way that English culture, books that I’d read as child, was influencing the life of girls (probably my contempories) who lived in a different continent.

I liked the way that the author evoked the feeling of decay and the fading of Rhodesia as the white population had known it.

The views of the different generations towards the black population was also interesting. At first I thought it good that the girls didn’t seem to have a prejudice and were happy to play with the black children, then I realised that they must also have had a deep prejudice in that they didn’t bother to learn their “friends” names and described them as I might an exhibit in the zoo.

I think more could have been made of Ronin’s part in the story – in fact the book might have been better if Lauren Liebenberg had done so. He seemed to flit into the story, do something sinister and then flit out again.

I wasn’t even aware that there was a mystery to his background although there were early references to his grandfather’s misdoings I rather overlooked these until the truth of Ronin’s parentage came out at the end.

I must admit that I cried real tears when Cia died.

On the whole a good book, lots of good atmospheric writing but the plot was a bit lost amongst it.

Dimplenose

06-01-2009, 04:43 PM

dolphingirl47

06-02-2009, 03:54 AM

I have read the book as planned on our cruise, but we came back Sunday and I had the day from hell at work yesterday and my time on the forum has been limited so far. I will share my thoughts on the book when I get home tonight.

Corinna

higgy66

06-02-2009, 05:27 AM

Hopefully someone else read this book. If so here are a couple of questions to help your thoughts along.

• Did you enjoy the book? Why? Why not?

• What about the plot? Did it pull you in; or did you feel you had to force yourself to read the book?

I really enjoyed this book and found it an easy read - especially compared to the language and flow of last months.

I liked the fact that there was a backdrop of African history without overtaking the plot - basically it was a insight into the lives of 2 young girls growing up as "white" girls in a changing Rhodesia.

If I'm honest I couldn't put it down and I can't really explain why as there wasn't a gripping plot as such. I felt from the start that the younger sister would die and as soon as Ronin was introduced I knew that he would be the cause. I did feel that more should have been made of his character as he justed flitted in and out and after he had caused Cia's death he just flitted out again?

I also cried when Cia died as throughout the book I felt a connection with the the two girls and also their Grandpa. I felt all the others were just extras but I would have liked to have got to know their mother more.

As I've said I really enjoyed the book and couldn't put it down but when I look at it on the worktop waiting to go back to the library I have no urge to pick it up again or even recommend it to others so I find that a bit strange :confused3

Can't wait to see what the rest of you thought.

Dimplenose

06-02-2009, 09:54 AM

If I'm honest I couldn't put it down and I can't really explain why as there wasn't a gripping plot as such.

I would have liked to have got to know their mother more.

I agree that I couldn't put it down and had finished it in 3 days.

As for the mother - I'd like to have known more about the letters she received from Ronin and the feelings she may have had for him.

dolphingirl47

06-03-2009, 06:28 AM

It took me a fair while to get into the book and I can understand that people could just not bring themselves to read the book. I found it about as interesting as watching paint dry at the beginning. What was the saving grace for me is that I took this on our cruise and I had only one other book that I had read more than half of before I got on the ship. So it was a question of giving the book a chance or not having anything to read at all. Well, I am glad that I did give the book a chance. In the end I loved it and could not put it down.

I loved to find out more about the history of Zimbabwe. It was very obvious that a lot of troubles that the country faces have their origins in the period of time in which the book was set. I liked the idea that the story was told from the perspective of a child.

I really did not like the character of Ronin and I always was glad when he disappeared again. I would have liked to find out a bit more of his background though. I know it was hinted at that his mother was born as a result of an affair that Angelique had with Seamus, but I would have loved to find out a bit more. I also would have liked to find out why his mother went away.

The question that I kept asking myself was if the story would have ended differently if Cia and Nyree would have told an adult about what Ronin did to Moosejaw.

Corinna

Dimplenose

06-04-2009, 10:42 AM

The question that I kept asking myself was if the story would have ended differently if Cia and Nyree would have told an adult about what Ronin did to Moosejaw.

Corinna

I was amazed at the power that Ronin had over the girls - but I think young children are more easily intimidated by teenagers rather than by adults.

Dimplenose

06-11-2009, 10:16 AM

Oh, well - not too much banter about May's book. It seems that those who persevered with it enjoyed it in the end. If you are a late reader do feel free to add any comments otherwise I'd just like to remind everyone that we are reading Lucky by Alice Sebold to be discussed from 1st July.

See you on 1st July.

dolphingirl47

06-11-2009, 10:28 AM

I was amazed at the power that Ronin had over the girls - but I think young children are more easily intimidated by teenagers rather than by adults.

You are probably right about this one, but I still wish that they had sought help from an adult.

Oh, well - not too much banter about May's book. It seems that those who persevered with it enjoyed it in the end. If you are a late reader do feel free to add any comments otherwise I'd just like to remind everyone that we are reading Lucky by Alice Sebold to be discussed from 1st July.

See you on 1st July.

This will be another last minute read. I ordered this from Amazon as I was ordering something else anyway and the estimated delivery is 18 Jun 2009 - 24 Jun 2009 (due to the availability of the other book). I hope it is the 18th rather than the 24th June 2009. Having read the synopsis, I am a little bit worried about this book.

Corinna

Dimplenose

06-11-2009, 10:47 AM

Having read the synopsis, I am a little bit worried about this book.

Corinna

Me too. But my reason for joining this book club was to read things I wouldn't normally choose so I'll give it a go and see how I get on.

dolphingirl47

06-11-2009, 10:53 AM

Me too. But my reason for joining this book club was to read things I wouldn't normally choose so I'll give it a go and see how I get on.

That's exactly my reasoning behind joining the book club and I am pretty open to anything. The problem with this book is that it is all about rape and I was at the receiving end of attempted rape back in 1995. I am not sure how raw the emotional wounds still are. Fortunately he got interrupted and there was no penetration, but I had bruising both physically and emotionally.

Corinna

Dimplenose

06-11-2009, 11:01 AM

That's exactly my reasoning behind joining the book club and I am pretty open to anything. The problem with this book is that it is all about rape and I was at the receiving end of attempted rape back in 1995. I am not sure how raw the emotional wounds still are. Fortunately he got interrupted and there was no penetration, but I had bruising both physically and emotionally.

Corinna

Oh my goodness. This club is meant to be for fun/entertainment please don't join in with a book that you think will cause you distress. I think next month's book will also be very difficult for you. Please don't feel obliged to join in.

(I'm hoping to get a better balance next time - I'm still very new to book clubs, maybe we should "steal" a list from elsewhere.)

dolphingirl47

06-11-2009, 01:42 PM

Oh my goodness. This club is meant to be for fun/entertainment please don't join in with a book that you think will cause you distress. I think next month's book will also be very difficult for you. Please don't feel obliged to join in.

(I'm hoping to get a better balance next time - I'm still very new to book clubs, maybe we should "steal" a list from elsewhere.)

Don't worry, you are doing fine.

I do not feel obliged to do anything that I am not happy or comfortable with. I have ordered the book (not knowing what it was about at the time as there was no synopsis on Amazon) and I am determined to give it a go. If I can't handle it, the book will go to the charity shop and that is the end of that. It did not happen yesterday, but almost to the day 14 years ago and ever since then I have avoided the topic. My husband is aware, but nobody else in my present life is as it happened in Germany and then I moved to the UK a year later. I actually think it might be quite healthy to finally face this.

I don't even know what the book for next month is. I have to go to the first post to check it out.

Corinna

joolz1910

06-11-2009, 01:44 PM

Don't worry, you are doing fine.

I do not feel obliged to do anything that I am not happy or comfortable with. I have ordered the book (not knowing what it was about at the time as there was no synopsis on Amazon) and I am determined to give it a go. If I can't handle it, the book will go to the charity shop and that is the end of that. It did not happen yesterday, but almost to the day 14 years ago and ever since then I have avoided the topic. My husband is aware, but nobody else in my present life is as it happened in Germany and then I moved to the UK a year later. I actually think it might be quite healthy to finally face this.

I don't even know what the book for next month is. I have to go to the first post to check it out.

Corinna

I have pm'd you.

natalielongstaff

06-11-2009, 02:07 PM

i have yet to order Lucky, must do it asap

Sorry to hear about you experiences Joolz xx :hug:

dolphingirl47

06-11-2009, 02:25 PM

I have pm'd you.

Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

Corinna

Pinky166

06-12-2009, 05:28 PM

Dimplenose

06-12-2009, 06:51 PM

I feel bad for suggesting this book as I hadn't realised the subject matter. I was loaned a stack of books to read & this was one that I just remembered the name of so suggested it for the list not having read the back of the book to know what it was about. I haven't even got around to reading it yet & not sure if I will by the end of the month.

I don't want anyone to feel obliged to read it, I am not even sure if I want to.

Don't feel bad. We are all capable of making our own judgements as to whether or not to read a book. The assistant in Waterstones was full of praise for this book when I bought it.

I do think, however, that having this book immediately followed by next month's (subject involves abuse) might just be too much. I will keep this month's book but would like everyone's opinion on changinging July's book for something lighter. Please post or PM your views so I know what to do.

natalielongstaff

06-13-2009, 06:53 AM

Maybe we could try a chick lit type of book to lighten the mood ( along the lines of marian keys or sophie kinsella)

joolz1910

06-13-2009, 06:56 AM

I feel bad for suggesting this book as I hadn't realised the subject matter. I was loaned a stack of books to read & this was one that I just remembered the name of so suggested it for the list not having read the back of the book to know what it was about. I haven't even got around to reading it yet & not sure if I will by the end of the month.

I don't want anyone to feel obliged to read it, I am not even sure if I want to.

You shouldn't feel bad. I think it is the more controversial books that promote discussion. I had wanted to read Lucky after reading 'The Lovely Bones'. Most of what I have read recently involves something that's either dark or depressing! The books I have lined up to read are Trueman Capote's 'In Cold Blood', and Cormac Macarthy's 'The Road'.

How about 'The 5 People you meet in Heaven' by Mitch Albom - that's one I've been meaning to read.

CustardTart

06-13-2009, 08:18 AM

Just want to suggest a book I have thoroughly enjoyed recently - The Gargoyle by Andrew Davidson (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gargoyle-Andrew-Davidson/dp/1847671691/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244895398&sr=8-1)... Completely different to anything else I've read lately and I couldn't put it down... :thumbsup2

Also liked The Brutal Art by Jesse Kellerman (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brutal-Art-Jesse-Kellerman/dp/0751540285/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1_rsrsrs0)...

Dimplenose

06-13-2009, 12:13 PM

So is everyone happy to make a change?

Is a Marian Keys book a good choice? I don't read chick-lit normally, but that makes another reason to choose it.

I bought a book today in Borders called "The book club bible." It has 100 books listed with suggested discussion questions. Perhaps we could do one or two from here over the next few months as the questions helped keep the Kevin discussion alive.(I was asking on the desk about it and mentioned Lionel Shriver and the man on the info desk didn't realise she is a woman. He went off muttering "Why call yourself Lionel when you're a woman? I think I'll call myself Dierdre!)

wideeyes

06-13-2009, 01:00 PM

some suggestions-

Burning Bright by Tracy Chevalier

Nervous Conditions by Tsitsi Dangarembga

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larsson

Dimplenose

06-13-2009, 01:39 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions, I first need to know whether I should change the book.

I think I'm going to post a poll as I'm getting suggestion overload - perhaps people should sign up to suggest a book each month and maybe lead the discussion?

CustardTart

06-13-2009, 01:43 PM

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by Stieg Larsson

I've just finished that - LOVED IT!!! :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

Can't wait for the other two to be available on paperback but it's just so sad about the author... :sad2:

Dimplenose

06-13-2009, 01:46 PM

I am not planning to extend the list until October - I just want to know whether or not to change July's book. I'm off to post a poll.

wideeyes

06-13-2009, 02:01 PM

I've just finished that - LOVED IT!!! :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

I haven't read it yet, looking forward to though.

I've got loads of books to catch up with now I am free from reading lists.:cool1:

britchic4

06-13-2009, 02:06 PM

Hello all, sorry to butt in on this thread, but I work in publishing so am always interested in these kind of things!
Someone mentioned The Gargoyle, and I would second that, it's a fantastic book if you can just get past the first couple of chapters which are a little gruesome.
I'd also thoroughly recommend another Richard & Judy choice, The 19th Wife by David Ebershoff which is a historical novel based on the original Mormon church, in the words of Brigham Young's wife no. 19.

irongirlof12

06-13-2009, 02:41 PM

I can recommend The forgotten Garden by Kate Morton, a good uplifting read with a lot to discuss!

Dimplenose

06-13-2009, 04:39 PM

As I said before I'm not updating the list yet so please don't keep adding recommendations - I'm going to start another thread for book recommendations which aren't necessarily going to be "bookclub books" but might be useful to people looking for extra reading material.

Please post book suggestions to this thread
Book Suggestions Thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=32257877#post32257877)

In the meantime please help my original dilemma by voting on this poll
July Bookclub Poll (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2202538)

Thanks

natalielongstaff

06-14-2009, 06:30 AM

thanks Libby xx

Dimplenose

06-17-2009, 02:18 AM

The poll was pretty indecisive so I've decided to keep the original book for July (The price of love by Nikola T.James) as people may already have purchased it.

natalielongstaff

06-26-2009, 12:49 PM

Ive finished reading " Lucky" im looking forward to the discussion :thumbsup2

Dimplenose

06-26-2009, 12:54 PM

I'm going to have to do some rapid reading this weekend. I started ages ago, but I'm finding it rather a chore to read.

Discussions should start on Wednesday.

irongirlof12

06-27-2009, 10:35 AM

I am near the end of 'Lucky'. :yay:

natalielongstaff

06-27-2009, 10:52 AM

I'm going to have to do some rapid reading this weekend. I started ages ago, but I'm finding it rather a chore to read.

Discussions should start on Wednesday.

I lent my copy to Joh so i expect she may chip in with her views on the book :)

dolphingirl47

06-28-2009, 07:06 AM

I finished the book on the drive down to Southampton on Friday.

Corinna

Dimplenose

07-01-2009, 01:56 AM

It's now time to discuss the book "Lucky".

I'll come clean and say that I haven't finished the book. I'll be interested to see what everyone else felt about it and I may well go on and finish it, but at the moment these are my thoughts:-

I read books mostly to escape from reality. Maybe to put myself in someone elses shoes but mainly for esacapism. I do read biographies so why have I had problems with this book?

I'm not sure. At first I was uncomfortable with the graphic description of the rape. Then I just didn't like the style of writing or the main character - but then I remembered that she wasn't a character but a real person who had lived through these experiences so then I felt guilty about my feelings.

Maybe the book gets better - just saying that throws me back into guilt mode as it isn't just a book it's a life that needs to get better. I don't want to spend my reading time feeling guilty, but now I feel guilty that I haven't done this woman the honour of finishing her account - such a little thing to do after what she went through.

Sorry for the ramblings, please post your reviews.

irongirlof12

07-01-2009, 03:28 AM

I have read all of alice Seabold's novels and they are all quite harrowing to read. ( The lovely bones and almost) I quite like her style of writing.

I found her graphic description of her rape quite harrowing and quite difficult to read. She went into so much detail, i also thought that it was quite poignant how the police report could have fitted onto half a side.

She talks quite a lot about her difficult family relationships and her attitude to relationships afterward the rape which must have been very tough to write, especially the breakdown of her friendship with Lila and the circumstances which led to that.

wilma-bride

07-01-2009, 04:57 AM

I am inclined to agree with some of your sentiments, Libby. Although I actually read the book from cover to cover within a couple of days, I can't say that I really enjoyed it, if that makes sense. I also found that I didn't really like the character (even though, like you say, she was a real person). Although I assume the idea of the book was to show how she coped with the rape and her feelings, I felt, at times, as though she was trying to court sympathy - which, of course, is not necessary as anyone can, I think, sympathise with such an awful experience.

I also found the ending very unbelieveable (and, again, I felt a bit guilty for thinking that) but it seemed really strange to me that her best friend was raped too - talk about lightning striking twice. It really spoiled the book for me and, to be honest, I wish she hadn't included it - presumably it was included to show the comparison between how she coped and how her friend did but I felt that she made her friend out to be a wimp just because she wasn't as strong, if that makes sense.

I am rambling now so I will shut up and let someone else have a say :)

joolz1910

07-01-2009, 01:14 PM

I agree with Joh and Libby. I found myself not liking Alice Sebold. I thought she was terribly judgemental of Lila and the subtext was definitely an implicit criticism of her friend's refusal to pursue the rapist through the judicial system. I thought that Sebold had interpreted Lila's rape as being all about her, yet it could easily have been an awful coincidence.

I found the description of the rape very difficult to read, but I think it really brought home the viciousness and cruelty of rape, so in that sense it was effective - if that is the right word.

I preferred The Lovely Bones.

natalielongstaff

07-01-2009, 02:00 PM

I finished the book, whilst i didnt dislike alice i was very dissapointed in how she wrote the last section of the book.

I felt she glossed over a lot of her recovery and i would think it would be more helpful to explain how she fully overcame her trauma and not just concentrated on how she felt her friend let her down

Dimplenose

07-01-2009, 03:32 PM

I've been trying to work out why I disliked Alice in the book. I agree with Joh that she was courting sympathy.

It wasn't the sympathy as a rape victim that irritated me (she deserved sympathy for that) but the way she went on at length about her parents lack of physical contact.

My parents divorced when I was a teenager and I don't remember any closeness between them when I was younger but I didn't really thnk it odd (until I read this book!) it was just the way it was.

It's obvious that a personal account is going to be self centred but everyone involved with her needed to deal with her rape in their own way and she seemed very critical that they should want do this. I've only read half the book but from previous comments it seems that she carries on in this vein.

I'm going to try to finish this book but I don't think I'll be reading any of her other books.

joolz1910

07-01-2009, 03:39 PM

I thought she was very dismissive of others. She didn't seem to like anyone in the book. Everyone was side-swiped with a cutting remark or description. She seemed a bit of an intellectual snob at times too.

I agree with others that she deserved sympathy, but she was definitely not a sympathetic 'character', if you know what I mean.

natalielongstaff

07-01-2009, 03:43 PM

I agree with others that she deserved sympathy, but she was definitely not a sympathetic 'character', if you know what I mean.

that sums her up perfectly Juliette !

dolphingirl47

07-01-2009, 05:21 PM

I did read the book and read it from cover to cover. I was very surprised that the description of the actual rape did not bother me at all. I did not think it was all that graphic. However, the scenes in the hospital were my undoing. This part made me literally sick to the stomach.

I would not say that I enjoyed the book. The subject matter and knowing that this is somebody's real story kind of precluded this. I am glad though that I read it. I am probably the only one feeling like this, but I did like Alice. I did not much like her family though.

I don't think that it is fair to say that she had not anything good to say about any of the characters in the book. Mary Alice, Tess and the female prosecutor were all shown in a very positive light.

What I really hated about the book was the last chapter. It was almost like an afterthought and I think the book would have been much better if it had ended with Alice embarking on her post-graduate course.

Corinna

natalielongstaff

07-02-2009, 02:11 AM

What I really hated about the book was the last chapter. It was almost like an afterthought and I think the book would have been much better if it had ended with Alice embarking on her post-graduate course.

Corinna

totally agree, it felt very rushed !

Pinky166

07-02-2009, 03:07 AM

I just wanted to say that I tried to read this book but just couldn't get in to it. :confused3 I have had so much going on at the moment that I have struggled to read anything so maybe I will try again at a later date.

Dimplenose

07-02-2009, 04:40 PM

I've been wondering if I'd have enjoyed this book more if it had been a totally fictional account.

I think I would have. Obviously the description of the rape would have still been hard to read but not as horrowing if I knew it was "just a story". I also think my dislike of the main character would have been less guilt-riddled.

What does anyone else think?

dolphingirl47

07-02-2009, 05:14 PM

For me it probably had not changed anything. Even if the account and the character had been entirely fictional, I would still have read it knowing that somewhere in the world a woman is probably going through exactly the same scenario or one very similar.

Corinna

Dimplenose

07-10-2009, 12:33 PM

Just a bump to remind everyone that July's book is The price of love by Nikola T.James.

I'm not around on August 1st (I'll be in WDW - woo hoo!) so I'll post a discussion reminder before I go and hopefully someone will get the discussion started on that day.

natalielongstaff

07-10-2009, 12:42 PM

Dimplenose

07-10-2009, 01:05 PM

Thanks.

Dimplenose

07-26-2009, 08:44 AM

Just giving this thread a bump before I go away.

I managed to get next month's book from a charity shop for £1 (that's less than I normally pay in library fines!)

dolphingirl47

07-26-2009, 05:37 PM

I ordered the next three books from Amazon and they arrived last week. I just have to finish re-reading Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince and then I will get stuck into The Price of Love. Fortunately it is a fairly thin book as I have left it until the last minute again. I can't wait to read Too Close to Home. I absolutely loved No Time For Goodbye.

Corinna

natalielongstaff

08-03-2009, 03:22 AM

Discussing " the price of love "

So what did we think of this book ??

natalielongstaff

08-03-2009, 12:02 PM

I will start then !

I alternated between feeling inceredibly sad for what Nikola was going through ( especially when se was a child ) and then feeling a bit cross that she didnt take the chance to escape or tell ! I know that her abusers made her so frightened of retribution that she felt she had no other choice but i struggled to imagine myself in that type of situation and then i felt guilty for not being sympathetic.

dolphingirl47

08-03-2009, 05:29 PM

I still have about 25 pages to go. I will join in when I finished the book (hopefully tomorrow night)

Corinna

dolphingirl47

08-06-2009, 05:46 AM

I finally finished the book and I found this much harder to read then "Lucky". I think part of the reason is that there are really no positive characters in the book. The closest that this book comes to a positive character is Nana. Even Connor, who she describes as her soul mate and salvation is a flawed character to me. The fact that he took some considerable time to commit either to His wife and child or to Nikola. The fact that his friends have hinted that she is one of a long line of "bits on the side" did not inspire me with confidence either.

For much of the book, I felt desperately sorry for Nikola. She comes from a picture book dysfunctional family and I don't think she ever really had a chance. I can definitely understand why she chose to get married to escape her home situation. Towards the end of the book I was just plain angry with her. Her string of one night stands and unsuitable affairs, especially once her daughter was born, was inexcusable. I started to wonder why Katrina was not taken into care. Although she obviously deeply loved her daughter, she did not seem in any fit state to look after a child.

I am glad that this book ended on a high, but I still found this an extremely uncomfortable read.

Corinna

Dimplenose

08-18-2009, 11:39 AM

Whoops! I forgot to check out this thread after my holiday.

Thanks for getting the discussion going. From previous comments I didn't think too many people were choosing to read July's book, myself included.

There is still time to add your comments if you did read it.

August's read is Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult. I haven't started this yet but I will be very interested for two reasons, firstly I find her books a very mixed bag - some I've not been able to put down until I finish them and others I've found very silly and couldn't care less about the characters. Secondly I will be able to compare it to our first book (We need to talk about Kevin) which has a similar subject matter - but don't worry if you haven't read the first book you comments will be just as welcome.

Next month's book (Too CLose to Home) is currently on offer in Sainsbury's (2 for £7 or £4.99 each).

natalielongstaff

08-18-2009, 12:03 PM

Next month's book (Too CLose to Home) is currently on offer in Sainsbury's (2 for £7 or £4.99 each).

thanks for that :thumbsup2

wilma-bride

08-19-2009, 03:09 AM

I have read this month's book (19 minutes) so will try to contribute to the discussions (although I read it a while ago now).

Looking forward to next month's discussion though - I love Linwood Barclay :thumbsup2

dolphingirl47

08-19-2009, 05:09 AM

natalielongstaff

08-19-2009, 05:51 AM

Dimplenose

08-19-2009, 06:03 AM

I am reading Nineteen Minutes at the moment and can't wait to start discussing it. My copy has loads of Book Club questions at the end. Does anybody else's? That should help with the discussion as well.

Corinna

No, I bought mine from a charity shop - it's got someone's holiday plans scribbled inside the back cover (phone Sophie, walk dog, etc.) but no discussion points. It would be great if you could pose some of the book club questions once discussions start.

dolphingirl47

08-20-2009, 07:07 AM

No, I bought mine from a charity shop - it's got someone's holiday plans scribbled inside the back cover (phone Sophie, walk dog, etc.) but no discussion points. It would be great if you could pose some of the book club questions once discussions start.

No problem at all. I will type them up on a word document next week and then I am good to go as soon as the discussion starts.

Corinna

dolphingirl47

08-23-2009, 06:01 PM

I was just wondering if we will carry on with the Book Club beyond October? I am very aware that we are nearly out of books. I have really enjoyed the Book Club over the last few month. This has really encouraged me to read books that I would normally never have touched. The only book that I would have read anyway is the October book. However, I am glad that I have read each and every one of them. I find it hard to put down "19 Minutes" yet I would never have chosen a book by Jodi Picoult before.

Corinna

Dimplenose

08-24-2009, 04:37 AM

We had a lot of discussion a while ago about the mixture of books that we rather randomly chose. I said I'd get a new thread going to choose the new books after my holiday. Well, I've been back a fortnight and not done anything about it, so thanks for reminding me.

I'm not sure how to go about it to get a fair mix ... I'll put this all into a new thread now.

dolphingirl47

08-24-2009, 04:44 AM

Dimplenose

08-24-2009, 04:54 AM

Here's the new book choosing thread

Help choose the new books (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2265411)

wilma-bride

08-25-2009, 02:42 AM

natalielongstaff

08-25-2009, 02:44 AM

Nat, technically, isn't that my copy ;)

Well technically yes, but whats yours is mine hun :lmao:

Dimplenose

09-01-2009, 02:30 AM

Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult

I've just finished this in time to start off the discussions. I know that Corinna and Natalie have some questions so I'll just start with a quick report on my thoughts on the book.

As with most Jodi Piccoult books I found the style of writing very readable. It wasn't a gripping book but quite entertaining. I don't know if I've read too many depressing books lately or whether it was the way it was written but I didn't find myself horrified by the acts decribed here.

At first I found the number of different characters' stories quite hard to follow and found myself most closely following Josie's story and then Peter's. I hate to say this but it was almost a relief when she finished off Matt.

The adults in this story were more likable than those in "We must talk about Kevin."

The part that really rankled was ending the story with Alex's pregnancy. Maybe I'd "bonded" too much with Josie but it almost felt like betrayal after everything that had happened especially Alex's realisation that she hadn't spent enough time with her daughter. (I'm pretty sure that this is not the first time Picoult has finished off a story with a new baby.)

dolphingirl47

09-01-2009, 08:03 AM

First of all, I never would have considered to read a Jodi Picoult book on my own accord. When the list was published, I still wondered if I should sit this one out. It was only once I realised that she also wrote My Sister's Keeper, which I really want to see, that I figured I should give it a go.

Well, I absolutely loved it. I literally could not put the book down. The characters were well drawn and I really felt for them. Even though Peter in this book and Kevin in the first book committed the same crime, I felt much more empathy for Peter. I also liked Lacy as a character.

I was a little surprised that the book seemed to focus more on Alex and Josie then on Peter and his family. It was only at the end of the book that it became clear why that is the case.

There is two things about the book that I did not like. I would have loved to read about the reaction to Peter's suicide. How did his family feel? How did they react? What effect did this have on them? I also would have liked to read something about Josie's trial. She was such a central character throughout the book. It just did not sit right with me that her trial was covered only as a side note.

Corinna

dolphingirl47

09-01-2009, 08:06 AM

I will post the first discussion question later this afternoon.

Corinna

DebIreland

09-01-2009, 10:05 AM

Hi everyone,

Is it okay if I join the book club? I read Nineteen Minutes a few months ago (I love some Jodi Picoult books). Would love to join the discussion. :goodvibes

Deb

natalielongstaff

09-01-2009, 10:49 AM

Hi everyone,

Is it okay if I join the book club? I read Nineteen Minutes a few months ago (I love some Jodi Picoult books). Would love to join the discussion. :goodvibes

Deb

its open to anyone Deb, we would love to hear your views :thumbsup2

dolphingirl47

09-01-2009, 12:17 PM

Hi everyone,

Is it okay if I join the book club? I read Nineteen Minutes a few months ago (I love some Jodi Picoult books). Would love to join the discussion. :goodvibes

Deb

Hi Deb,
welcome. I am looking forward to reading what you thought about the book.

Corinna

DebIreland

09-01-2009, 12:39 PM

its open to anyone Deb, we would love to hear your views :thumbsup2

Hi Deb,
welcome. I am looking forward to reading what you thought about the book.

Corinna

Thanks Natalie and Corinna. Looking forward to it. :)

dolphingirl47

09-01-2009, 12:58 PM

Dimplenose

09-02-2009, 02:28 AM

Right, here is the first discussion question from the book:

Alex and Lacy's friendship comes to an end when they discover Peter and Josie playing with guns in the Houghton house. Wht does Alex decide that it is in Josie's best interest to keep her daughter away from Peter? What significance is there to the fact that Alex is the first one to prevent Josie from being friends with Peter?

I looked at this incident as a trigger (no pun intended) for Peter's dad to start teaching him about guns rather than anything else.

Analysing it now, I'm surprised that Alex doesn't give Lacy and Peter a second chance - maybe this would have been tha natural point for their friendship to wane anyway as friendships do change as people's lives go in different directions.

I'm sure if Alex was that concerned about Peter and Josie being together she could have moved her to a different (maybe private) school.

wilma-bride

09-02-2009, 03:02 AM

I thought it was more of an excuse than anything else. As a Mother, I think she felt they were becoming too close and I certainly got the impression they felt they were 'a cut above the rest' (if that makes sense).

I agree, Libby, that it was definitely a trigger - let's face it, you could probaably say that none of the rest of it would have happened had it not been for that defining incident.

dolphingirl47

09-02-2009, 05:18 AM

Alex and Lacy's friendship comes to an end when they discover Peter and Josie playing with guns in the Houghton house. Wht does Alex decide that it is in Josie's best interest to keep her daughter away from Peter? What significance is there to the fact that Alex is the first one to prevent Josie from being friends with Peter?

I did not see this as a significant event in terms of what happened later at all. I saw it more as a defining moment in Alex and Josie's relationship. Alex initially did not want Josie, but changed her mind. I think in this moment, she realised just how much she loves Josie and that she could lose her at any time. I think Alex just got scared and that is why she stopped Josie from playing with Peter after school. I don't think that this had any further influence on what happened later. This incident did not end the friendship between Peter and Josie either. They still were close at school until Josie started to develop into a different direction.

I also don't really see a problem in Peter's father showing him how to safely handle a gun. I think given Peter's obvious interest in guns, this was a responsible thing to do. I see him taking Peter on a hunting trip in the same light. He realized that Peter was fascinated by guns and decided to give him the chance to use them in a controlled and supervised environment. As Peter clearly did not enjoy hunting, I don't think anybody could have foreseen that he would go into the school and shoot other students.

The only significance that I see in those events is that it was Peter who showed Josie the gun and it was Peter's gun that Josie ultimately used to shoot Matt.

Corinna

dolphingirl47

09-02-2009, 06:18 AM

As I am on the late shift tonight, I will post the next question now:

Alex has often trouble separating her roles as a judge and a mother. How does this affect her relationship with Josie? Discuss whether or not Alex's job is more important to her than being a mother.

Dimplenose

09-03-2009, 11:23 AM

Alex has often trouble separating her roles as a judge and a mother. How does this affect her relationship with Josie? Discuss whether or not Alex's job is more important to her than being a mother.

I'm not sure that she thought her role as a judge was more important, it just defined who she was - I don't think Alex ever stopped being a judge she just tried to fit motherhood in as best she could. I certainly understand her mistake tin thinking hat there would always be times to do things with her child forgetting just how quickly she'd grow up. She seemed to deal with her judge's responsibilities immediately and left Josie on her "to do" list.

Dimplenose

09-07-2009, 02:14 AM

bump

dolphingirl47

09-07-2009, 05:30 AM

I will post another question tonight when I get back from work (about 22:00)

Corinna

wilma-bride

09-07-2009, 04:09 PM

I don't think Alex's job was more important to her than being a mother, I think she just struggled to juggle both and seemed to get her priorities a little wrong. I think, Libby, you hit the nail on the head when you say that Josie was left on her 'to do' list as something to deal with later.

dolphingirl47

09-07-2009, 05:29 PM

I don't know if Alex' dedication to her job really affects the relationship. It is very obvious throughout the book that Alex deeply cares about Josie. She only took the job as a judge, because she thought this would guarantee more regular hours and allowing her to spend more time with Josie. Unfortunately this did not work out this way. I think the relationship that they have is pretty typical for a relationship between a teenage girl and her mother. When she heard that there had been a shooting at the school, she leaves court straight away to make sure that Josie is OK.

I don't think that her job is more important to Alex than her daughter. For Alex as a single mum with no support at all from Josie's father, having a job is no choice, but a necessity. The fact that she enjoys her job and that she is good at it does not change this.

Corinna

dolphingirl47

09-07-2009, 05:33 PM

A theme throughout the novel is the idea of masks and personas, and pretending to be someone you are not. To which characters does this apply and why?

madmumof2

09-24-2009, 08:46 AM

A theme throughout the novel is the idea of masks and personas, and pretending to be someone you are not. To which characters does this apply and why?

I think in a way it applied to all the main characters apart from Peter, who was himself throughout the book.

Alex tried to be in control in all aspects of her life. When in fact she was as vulnerable and scared as anyone. I think she pretended a lot to herself that she was a better judge than a mother so it wouldn't hurt so much when it was proven to be true, in her eyes, although I believe she was a good mum.

Josie wanted to be liked so she liked the same things her friends did, did everything her friends did to the point of laughing at Peter, the only person who really know who she was. She pretended to the outside world she was happy and popular and had no worries, when inside she was hurting, in pain and insecure.

Lewis hid everything important from Lacy and distanced himself from everyone and everything. He made people think he didn't care and wasn't effected by what happened when it did.

Lacy liked being in her own shell. She wondered if it could have all been her fault, something she did, but I got the impression she didn't really believe this. I think she liked to pretend she was the perfect mum, and as a midwife whose life is children, that's not a hard perception to fake.

BTw, I've only just found this thread, and have just finished this book (for the second time lol) this morning. How spooky! lol

Dimplenose

10-01-2009, 02:22 AM

It's time to start discussing Too Close to Home, Linwood Barclay

From reading the back blurb I really thought I was going to enjoy this book. The prologue had me gripped but when I started reading chapter 1 the change in style started to irritate.

I felt that the whole style of writing can be summed up in:-

I said
He said
I said
He said

Followed by an afterthought of an explaination as to why the characters knew information that they really shouldn't know.

This probably seems really sexist but I think it was rather a man's book.

Dimplenose

10-03-2009, 12:12 PM

Anyone else have a go at reading this?

Ware Bears

10-03-2009, 05:44 PM

I would have never chosen this book to read but I really enjoyed it.

After reading your post, Libby, I had a quick look and you're right about the 'saids' but I'll be honest and say I didn't notice it at the time! :rotfl:

I felt suspicious of Drew from the start and after the gun was found sort of guessed where he might slot into the story but I never imagined the twist with Ellen and Brett. I must say she irritated me throughout the book. I thought Jim was a decent hard-working guy and Derek just a typical teenager but Ellen's loyalties seemed to lie with Conrad rather than her husband and I couldn't understand why. How she could have stayed quiet about what happened that night and let Brett's mother suffer for so many years is beyond me.

I am glad I read this and would now read other books by Linwood Barclay.

irongirlof12

10-04-2009, 10:27 AM

I have just finished it.

not my usual type of book and did find that I quite enjoyed the twists of the plot and all the connections .

however, I felt no empathy for any of the characters and didn't feel that he really described anything well. The author relied far too much on the dialogue to portray emotions and he certainly failed with the females. IMO.

I also didn't quite get why the punch on the nose was so prominent to the story line, and it was in nearly every chapter - move on! maybe thats a guy thing :rotfl:

I think this would make a good film or mini-series as the charcters might come alive on the screen, and I had this nagging feeling that I was reading a script rather than a book, so maybe the author is hankering after a film deal with this one. ;)

wilma-bride

10-04-2009, 05:03 PM

I am glad I read this and would now read other books by Linwood Barclay.:thumbsup2

No time for goodbye is an excellent book

Libby, it's been a little while since I read this book but I kind of agree with you about the style of writing. I have to say that it's not something that particularly annoyed/irritated me though :confused3

I thought the story was really very clever. I agree that Ellen's loyalties seem completely misplaced - and, to be honest, I couldn't really understand why, unless she felt something for him that she wasn't admitting to :confused3 I felt that inference was there, although only hinted at.

irongirlof12

10-06-2009, 01:55 PM

something else that didn't quite add up - the book the missing part was written by Conrad, and it was on their book shelf at home, so how come Derek knew nothing about it. Okay he was only 7 when it came out, but wouldn't you think it would crop up in conversation? i.e. oh my boss wrote this- type of thing. :confused3

I would quite like to read the missing part as it got off to a great start :goodvibes

dolphingirl47

10-29-2009, 07:46 AM

Better late than never. I had read this book in September and had every intention to join in as soon as the discussion started, but even though I had taken the computer to Florida, I never quite got around to it. I also have been silly busy since I returned.

I had read No Time for Goodbye and really enjoyed it. The only reason I read that book was that I was looking for something to read and there was a special offer on so that if I bought another book, I got No Time for Goodbye for GBP2.50. So my expectations were low, but I just could not put it down. So I was very glad that he had published a second book.

I also loved Too Close To Home. I loved all the twists and turns. It is fascinating how all the characters that at first glance have nothing to do with each other suddenly turn out to be interlinked often without realizing it. I also loved how seemingly irrelevant stories that seem to have nothing to do with what is happening suddenly turned out to be central to the storyline (the punch on the nose and the reason for that) and other things that seemed so central to the plot (the authorship of the book and the "suicide") turned out to be not important at all. I found this book very easy to read and I can't wait for another Linwood Barclay book.

Corinna