Disability Line Complaints

[ntsammy5]

I was thinking about this all last night because I saw a thread on the Theme Parks Board about lines, and I haven't been on this board for a while.

I am lucky. I have never had a disability that affected me in any material way except for a knee replacement 2 years ago.

What I DON'T understand is the absolute vitriol directed at people in WC and ECVs who are in the parks and supposedly in special lines. People get very upset about ECVs getting on buses first (at least that's the impression) because someone else is privileged enough to be in an ECV or WC.

I just don't get the outrage. It confuses and upsets me. People in this country country need to get a life and need to be more tolerant and understanding. JMO.

[pudge the fish]

I think it's becasue of many reasons:

1. People still assume that being in a WC or EVC or having a GAC gets you to have a special head of the line access. and I have to admit I have seen GAC's being abused.

2. People in WC/EVC's do get to get on first on a BUS- ( no biggie- it never takes long:) BUT where I see the upset is when a person is in an EVC/ WC and 20 members of their family get on with them taking up all the seats- I have seen it quite a few times.People grumble..


3. Some people are just intolerant, rude and feel those who have invisible disabilities are faking- I have a friend who we take to Dinsey who is in a WC- she can't do an EVC and she looks totally like a "normal" person-
Until you notice she has no ability to move her legs. ( and we have heard all the comments - we ignore them but one day I had it and fussed at a woman who complained our friend got perks for faking in a WC.

4. People who have paid LOTS of money for their PERFECT trip expect PERFECTION and those people have no tolerance for those who really need an EVC- WC -because they are ruining their PERFECT vacation by getting on a bus faster..:confused3

5. I hate to say it but there are those who really DON'T need the EVC and I know a few who use them to try and get FOTL access - There are also those who have no control of their EVC's and run into people ( gives EVC users a bad name:)Some people think if you need a WC or EVC you shouldn't even go to Disney.. :sad2:


Very sad on comments about being in a WC/EVC. Some have no tolerance for anything. :mad:

[LMC]

It is all about people being intolerant and selfish. I would gladly exchange a week with a GAC pass for my son to have one "normal" week. A week where he could think like other 14yo kids, run and play like them and not have such severe sensory issues that he has to sit out of alot of things.
The type people like you described won't get it unless they ever have to personally walk in our shoes.
It's the same with the Make a Wish families. Sure they get treated like royalty on their trips but honestly would anyone want to be in their shoes for even a day? It makes me smile when I see a wish kid (not that they are there on a wish) at WDW being treated so kindly by all the CM's. Those kids deserve all the best considering what they have to deal with with their illnesses.

[Alexander]

Just a quick bit on one of our experiences....We were at Toy Story Mania and a very large family walked in directly in front of us and then proceeded to follow grandma into the wheelchair line. When we finally got to the loading platform, we noticed that the same family was still waiting to be loaded into their attraction cars. When we finished the ride and returned to the unloading platform the same family was still waiting. Soooo--long story short---the wheelchair line apparently isn't always faster--at least not at TSM.

[kaytieeldr]

What I DON'T understand is the absolute vitriol directed at people in WC and ECVs who are in the parks and supposedly in special lines. If only. Since I have needed to use an ECV for park touring, I have been through the mainstream line at Tower of Terror exactly twice - once, apparently accidentally (the Greeter was distracted by other Guests and I just rode up through the queue); and once last year after the attraction closed for the night, accompanied by a manager, so I could again see the 'pre-story' - the lobby, the library...

I want to use the same line as everyone else. I can use the same line as everyone else. But since not all Guests using ECVs can, Disney's rule is that no ECVs go through the mainstream queue :(

[Disneylvr]

I know in The Land 2 weeks ago we were called "cheaters" by one family because DD was in her special needs stroller inside the building. But that was the only time we encountered rude guests during our vacation, thankfully, but honestly I didn't pay much attention to other guests so if they were staring or giving us dirty looks I was just too busy having fun to notice! Those that decide to be rude must not be enjoying their vacation or they too would be too busy having fun to let wheelchairs and ECV's bother them so much.

[mackay_j]

Hi the other piont of view, Firstly let me say that I have got every sympathy for disabled guests and have even given up my space for them to ensure they get to see parades.

But here is why some people get cross. I have a girl who is type 1 diabetic but opt not to get gca as we usualy cope Ok and don't see why we should get preferential treatment. But in Busch gardens this happened.

I was with my 2 girls oldest diabetic youngest wanted to go on her 1st ever roller coaster (gwazi). We qued up for about 40mins and got to the front and got on. I was riding with the youngest 10 who was scared to be the one on her own, so eldest (diabetic 14 went on her own) in the cart infront of us. After getting in, a Cm came up and asked us to get out as a person in a wheelchair needed to get on. We tried to explain that I need to stay on or my eldest girl also needed off, but it was a no go, and the coaster went away with her still on. When the coaster came back this disabled person produced some fancy annual pass which meant she got to stay on. I tried to get the CM to let us go through the ride and use the emergeny exit to get to my older girl but no was the answer. 2 rides later we got on and down to my older girl, who had by this time paniked which had caused her sugars to fall and her to become almost unconsious, some people were trying to help her when we got to her and a first aider had been called. We gave her an emegency injection of glucose, then took her for food and to rest & recover, only to find the same disabled lady in the que for food, no wheel chair in sight, in fact she walk up and down for several plates of food and also waited in the que to reload her large coke holder at least 4 times.

To make things worse she came over to speak to me to say I had a cheek to have caused a fuss when she wanted on the ride, I was almost in tears as my emotions were only just returning to normal after what had happened to my daughter. I tried to explain to her that it wasn't getting of the ride that I was complianing about but that I did not want to be seperated from my girl. She then swore at me saying its not her fault if I was such a stupid ***** that I did not get a gac fro my girls as she gets it due to walking dificulties beacuse of her size. So The only reason that she needed the chair was she was just too fat to walk!!

I was absaloutly mad if she could walk about that much when she wanted to stuff her face ,she could also have waited to get on a ride.

The whole experience means that although Busch gave us free passes to return. When I complained they would not agree that fat people should not be given better treatment over others, and stated in emails that if being fat means they can't manage the park then they have a right to get a gca and get in the disabled line and skip, thus I will not go back! Every truely disabled person deserves to be in that line, but not just because they are too lazy/fat to walk!!

This is one of the reasons that people get anoyed as they start to doublt the validity of the system.:mad:

[merryweather20]

Hi the other piont of view, Firstly let me say that I have got every sympathy for disabled guests and have even given up my space for them to ensure they get to see parades.

But here is why some people get cross. I have a girl who is type 1 diabetic but opt not to get gca as we usualy cope Ok and don't see why we should get preferential treatment. But in Busch gardens this happened.

I was with my 2 girls oldest diabetic youngest wanted to go on her 1st ever roller coaster (gwazi). We qued up for about 40mins and got to the front and got on. I was riding with the youngest 10 who was scared to be the one on her own, so eldest (diabetic 14 went on her own) in the cart infront of us. After getting in, a Cm came up and asked us to get out as a person in a wheelchair needed to get on. We tried to explain that I need to stay on or my eldest girl also needed off, but it was a no go, and the coaster went away with her still on. When the coaster came back this disabled person produced some fancy annual pass which meant she got to stay on. I tried to get the CM to let us go through the ride and use the emergeny exit to get to my older girl but no was the answer. 2 rides later we got on and down to my older girl, who had by this time paniked which had caused her sugars to fall and her to become almost unconsious, some people were trying to help her when we got to her and a first aider had been called. We gave her an emegency injection of glucose, then took her for food and to rest & recover, only to find the same disabled lady in the que for food, no wheel chair in sight, in fact she walk up and down for several plates of food and also waited in the que to reload her large coke holder at least 4 times.

To make things worse she came over to speak to me to say I had a cheek to have caused a fuss when she wanted on the ride, I was almost in tears as my emotions were only just returning to normal after what had happened to my daughter. I tried to explain to her that it wasn't getting of the ride that I was complianing about but that I did not want to be seperated from my girl. She then swore at me saying its not her fault if I was such a stupid ***** that I did not get a gac fro my girls as she gets it due to walking dificulties beacuse of her size. So The only reason that she needed the chair was she was just too fat to walk!!

I was absaloutly mad if she could walk about that much when she wanted to stuff her face ,she could also have waited to get on a ride.

The whole experience means that although Busch gave us free passes to return. When I complained they would not agree that fat people should not be given better treatment over others, and stated in emails that if being fat means they can't manage the park then they have a right to get a gca and get in the disabled line and skip, thus I will not go back! Every truely disabled person deserves to be in that line, but not just because they are too lazy/fat to walk!!

This is one of the reasons that people get anoyed as they start to doublt the validity of the system.:mad:

:confused3 Uh?? This sort of thing simply doesn't happen, someone in a wheel-chair doesn't get to bump guests off (under any circumstances, even for a Make A Wish child), and in fact the wait is often longer as an earlier poster mentioned. Besides, someone doesn't get some fancy accommodation beccause they are fat. But obesity is often a side effect of many serious illnesses or medications, so it doesn't work to simply judge people.

The bus thing that is such a popular complaint isn't a perk either, I wait while all the other people get off the bus, before I'm unloaded.

[C&G'sMama]

Hi the other piont of view, Firstly let me say that I have got every sympathy for disabled guests and have even given up my space for them to ensure they get to see parades.

But here is why some people get cross. I have a girl who is type 1 diabetic but opt not to get gca as we usualy cope Ok and don't see why we should get preferential treatment. But in Busch gardens this happened.

I was with my 2 girls oldest diabetic youngest wanted to go on her 1st ever roller coaster (gwazi). We qued up for about 40mins and got to the front and got on. I was riding with the youngest 10 who was scared to be the one on her own, so eldest (diabetic 14 went on her own) in the cart infront of us. After getting in, a Cm came up and asked us to get out as a person in a wheelchair needed to get on. We tried to explain that I need to stay on or my eldest girl also needed off, but it was a no go, and the coaster went away with her still on. When the coaster came back this disabled person produced some fancy annual pass which meant she got to stay on. I tried to get the CM to let us go through the ride and use the emergeny exit to get to my older girl but no was the answer. 2 rides later we got on and down to my older girl, who had by this time paniked which had caused her sugars to fall and her to become almost unconsious, some people were trying to help her when we got to her and a first aider had been called. We gave her an emegency injection of glucose, then took her for food and to rest & recover, only to find the same disabled lady in the que for food, no wheel chair in sight, in fact she walk up and down for several plates of food and also waited in the que to reload her large coke holder at least 4 times.

To make things worse she came over to speak to me to say I had a cheek to have caused a fuss when she wanted on the ride, I was almost in tears as my emotions were only just returning to normal after what had happened to my daughter. I tried to explain to her that it wasn't getting of the ride that I was complianing about but that I did not want to be seperated from my girl. She then swore at me saying its not her fault if I was such a stupid ***** that I did not get a gac fro my girls as she gets it due to walking dificulties beacuse of her size. So The only reason that she needed the chair was she was just too fat to walk!!

I was absaloutly mad if she could walk about that much when she wanted to stuff her face ,she could also have waited to get on a ride.

The whole experience means that although Busch gave us free passes to return. When I complained they would not agree that fat people should not be given better treatment over others, and stated in emails that if being fat means they can't manage the park then they have a right to get a gca and get in the disabled line and skip, thus I will not go back! Every truely disabled person deserves to be in that line, but not just because they are too lazy/fat to walk!!

This is one of the reasons that people get anoyed as they start to doublt the validity of the system.:mad:

I usually try not to get into it. But I have to respond because this mentality drives me nuts.

First: I am fat as is DP. We walk the parks and don't request special treatment. You obviously ran into an incredibly obnoxious person who happens to be fat. But just as I would assume you wouldn't want everyone to judge your daughter, who are you to judge fat people? Sorry but this just gets me rankled.

Second:DS has Asperger's. This was diagnosed last July. We got a GAC for our short trip in December, but never used it. We will get one again for our trip in April and are seriously considering getting a special needs stroller for him. We have never been able to go to Fastamic or other shows because he can't handle the waits. We are hoping having a home base will help him and we will use our discretion as to when/if we use the GAC and when/if we use the stroller as a wheelchair. He is almost 6 and is the size of an 8 year old. He seems "normal" but as parents of spetrum kids know and our doctors know, they have their own unique set of needs and issues. So I'm sure we'll get dirty looks and tsk, tsks, but don't judge some one unless you know their situation.

[mackay_j]

I can assure you this did happen and have the emails from bucsh to prove it. as a first aider was involved the Cm from the ride was called in to Guest sevices to explain to management what had happened. They could not have apologised more - after the fact. That why on our return we have been given a free trip back. but as I said we will not be going. It was the lady herself who told me why she got the pass!!.

An extract from one of the mails that followed this visit.

Please accept our apologies that you were not able to experience the type of day you had expected regarding the incident on Gwazi. We are, however, grateful for the opportunity to respond. Busch Gardens is committed to providing an enjoyable experience that entertains and enriches all of our guests, and we regret that your experiences did not meet expectations. A copy of your letter was forwarded to operations departments for their review and corrective measures to ensure that this will not happen again.

In light this incident, as we value your loyalty, please send us your
tickets and we will gladly replace them for another visit to Busch Gardens Tampa Bay.

Once more thank you responding to our email and we are looking forward to hosting you again soon.

Sincerely,


Christian Y. Triscornia
Guest Relations Specialist
Busch Gardens Tampa Bay/ Adventure Island
P.O.Box 9158
Tampa, FL 33674
Phone 813-987-5885
Fax 813-987-5111
Christian.Triscornia@BuschGardens.com
www.buschgardens.com

[mackay_j]

I am not judging anybody she told me she. I had assumed she had MS or something else until she told me. I was giving it as a reason why people get anoyed. I do not judge all people in chairs who seem Ok at times. I have lupus, my cousin has MS so I am well aware that there can be underlying caused. I was just trying to show how others can get anoyed by the GAC thing. I had a very good reason to get anoyed and I was very lucky my girl did not end in hospital that day.

[Disneylvr]

I agree, another guest should never be taken off a ride after boarding to accomodate a wheelchair guest, especially in your circumstances when you were going to be seperated from your daughter. However, your experience was a Busch Gardens and I think the OP and most others here (me included) are talking about Disney parks and their GAC policies. I will only vacation at Disney because IMHO they are the only ones that do it right! We couldn't enjoy a family vacation otherwise.

[kaytieeldr]

I can assure you this did happen and have the emails from bucsh to prove it. as a first aider was involved the Cm from the ride was called in to Guest sevices to explain to management what had happened. They could not have apologised more - after the fact. I - as likely does everyone here - believe your experience; speaking for nobody else, I'm shocked THAT it happened. Bumping an already-seated Guest? Asinine. There is ZERO reason that other guest could not wait for you to FINISH your cycle. And apparently, Busch Gardens management agrees. Please consider giving that park another chance.

[C&G'sMama]

I am not judging anybody she told me she. I had assumed she had MS or something else until she told me. I was giving it as a reason why people get anoyed. I do not judge all people in chairs who seem Ok at times. I have lupus, my cousin has MS so I am well aware that there can be underlying caused. I was just trying to show how others can get anoyed by the GAC thing. I had a very good reason to get anoyed and I was very lucky my girl did not end in hospital that day.

You did have every right to be annoyed. I'm so glad your daughter is okay (sincerly I do). But in your post you singled out all fat people. You came across an idiot who is fat. She took advantage of the system but then it seems you took it from there and generalized and stereotyped all fat people.

I'm fat and I don't expect special accomodations. I cut my own lawn and shovel my own driveway, I can certainly wait in line and walk around the theme parks.

Unfortunately there are always people that take advantage of things. That stinks. While that woman was a jerk it sounds like the employees at Busch Gardens are to blame and never should have let all of this happen.

And while they gave you free passes, it doesn't sound like they owned up to their negligence, IMO.

[mechurchlady]

THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE EMPLOYEE OF BUSCH GARDENS.
You attack the guest when it was the employee who was WRONG. You have not right attacking people because they are fat. Why not go after her because she is a woman, her age or her skin colour? I do not see you harping about black or white people nor do I see you harping about women.

She may have abused the system but you do not know that. I use the GAC for rides but do not need it when I am in line for food. The food line is a short walk and the CMs help me out. On rides I need to avoid stairs and cannot walk very far for a long time. JUDGE NOT LEST YOU BE JUDGED.

I am so sick and tired of racists, bigots and other prejudiced people but now I am going to say that I abhor people who attack fat people solely because they are fat. I would not be fat if you would come to my house and make it disabled friendly, help me care for my mother, give me safe low fat options, give me help for my depresion and neurovariations. I AM FAT because I cannot exercise due to the pain in my legs that make it hard to get to sleep. I AM FAT because I get my high from food because of the stress and depression and sadness from dealing with my mother who is old, sick and neurovariant to the max. I AM FAT because I snack on chip because going into the bathroom or kitchen means dealing with mother and more stress. I AM FAT because I do not have an oven. I AM FAT because I am not rich like you and live in a home with a working bathtub, shower and an ADA toilet that mom can get to which means I shower in the cold garage and have to carry my mom's waste into the bathroom.

I AM FAT HISPANIC FEMALE OLD BAPTIST SO PICK A CARD AND PICK ON ME NO MORE.


THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THE EMPLOYEE OF BUSCH GARDENS.

[BeckyScott]

First off, the OP was talking about Busch Gardens.

There's a reason we all love Disney.

A couple of months ago I looked for information about Six Flags and found out they don't have anything like a GAC. Used to, too many abusers, got rid of it. Which they can do if they want. And we can choose not to give them our business.

I think that a big problem is that because of ADA you don't have to show proof of disability. Now before I get pummelled by rocks :eek: let me explain. I understand our right to privacy. I understand that somebody could fake a doctor's note. I understand that park employees (any park) are not trained medical professionals. However, not having to show proof means that if you're smart and creative you can work the system. And that hurts us all.

This would be my suggestion: make applying for a GAC something that needs to be done in advance. (I honestly don't believe that most people needing accomodation just "show up" at Disney without doing any prep work at all) An application that needs to be signed off by a doctor or psych. The form could be returned in advance and your name put into the computer system for your arrival. That would also take the guess-work out of the GAC depending on who was working at Guest Relations that day, the forms could all go to a central location and processed by someone who knows more.

That's the way it works if you need 504 accomodations at, say, a college. There is a form that has to be filled out if you want accomodations, and while it's possible to "fake" it I guess, it doesn't happen very often at all. Because it's complicated enough that most fakers won't go to the trouble. The form will include a checklist of all the possible GAC accomodations, which will not include FOTL. The guest will know in advance that they won't get FOTL. But a college's 504 form also has the doctor write down the official diagnosis, the last time that evals were done, etc.

Now, sure there will be doctors that will fill one out for people that don't need it. My MIL's doctor keeps filling out a form to let her keep her driver's license that she shouldn't have. :sad2: But most doctors (read: the ones with ethics) would tell the truth.

If a guest is wheelchair or scooter, they wouldn't need to do the form as long as they understand what they're getting into. If they need accomodation beyond that, here's the form.

That's just my idea, of course. Not that it would be perfect, but it might be better than what exists now. I think any of us on this board, if we had taken such a form to the doctor, they would have filled it out for us no problem and likely the same accomodations we'd needed.

What happened to the OP is really sad. An employee who was obviously under-trained and in too much of a rush to listen to a guest. Another guest who perhaps was abusing the system, but more than that was obnoxious. So many people have a warped sense of entitlement, and it's getting worse and worse, about almost everything. But those people know they're not really entitled, which is why they feel the need to pass judgement on others, so that the finger doesn't point at them. Sounds like maybe that's what happened.

[mechurchlady]

Bavaria has stopped posting because of the hate speech on this site. I cried so hard because how could this site allow hate speech. We cannot put down people because of race or religion but them fat people are rude and stink and take up space. ECVx should be banned but if someone were to call jews ugly or stinky then we would major outcry and everyone would be on the side of the jews.

I begged Bavaria to stay and post but doubt she will listen as I am a fighter and am also fed up with people attacking my disabilities. I am at the verge of all out war against people who put down fat people and mobility devices. That would get me banned. I loved this site and will miss the Divas and disAbiolities but cannot handle this any more, no I said no I have found home sweet and safe and loving home here but I was wrong it seems. This site is condoning hate speech.

[merryweather20]

First off, the OP was talking about Busch Gardens.

There's a reason we all love Disney.

A couple of months ago I looked for information about Six Flags and found out they don't have anything like a GAC. Used to, too many abusers, got rid of it. Which they can do if they want. And we can choose not to give them our business.

I think that a big problem is that because of ADA you don't have to show proof of disability. Now before I get pummelled by rocks :eek: let me explain. I understand our right to privacy. I understand that somebody could fake a doctor's note. I understand that park employees (any park) are not trained medical professionals. However, not having to show proof means that if you're smart and creative you can work the system. And that hurts us all.

This would be my suggestion: make applying for a GAC something that needs to be done in advance. (I honestly don't believe that most people needing accomodation just "show up" at Disney without doing any prep work at all) An application that needs to be signed off by a doctor or psych. The form could be returned in advance and your name put into the computer system for your arrival. That would also take the guess-work out of the GAC depending on who was working at Guest Relations that day, the forms could all go to a central location and processed by someone who knows more.

That's the way it works if you need 504 accomodations at, say, a college. There is a form that has to be filled out if you want accomodations, and while it's possible to "fake" it I guess, it doesn't happen very often at all. Because it's complicated enough that most fakers won't go to the trouble. The form will include a checklist of all the possible GAC accomodations, which will not include FOTL. The guest will know in advance that they won't get FOTL. But a college's 504 form also has the doctor write down the official diagnosis, the last time that evals were done, etc.

Now, sure there will be doctors that will fill one out for people that don't need it. My MIL's doctor keeps filling out a form to let her keep her driver's license that she shouldn't have. :sad2: But most doctors (read: the ones with ethics) would tell the truth.

If a guest is wheelchair or scooter, they wouldn't need to do the form as long as they understand what they're getting into. If they need accomodation beyond that, here's the form.

That's just my idea, of course. Not that it would be perfect, but it might be better than what exists now. I think any of us on this board, if we had taken such a form to the doctor, they would have filled it out for us no problem and likely the same accomodations we'd needed.

What happened to the OP is really sad. An employee who was obviously under-trained and in too much of a rush to listen to a guest. Another guest who perhaps was abusing the system, but more than that was obnoxious. So many people have a warped sense of entitlement, and it's getting worse and worse, about almost everything. But those people know they're not really entitled, which is why they feel the need to pass judgement on others, so that the finger doesn't point at them. Sounds like maybe that's what happened.

But asking for "proof" would have the opposite effect. If someone was faking or exagerating something they would have no problem faking a Dr's note. It would have no effect at all on them, as you say these people are "creative".

If I were required to have a Dr's note to vacation at Disney. I would look at the cost of a Dr's visit, taking the time off work, and of course bothering my Specialist with "just a vacation" when we're still actively twekaing my medications and therapy. And after adding all that up I simply wouldn't go. Nevermind all the people that only find out they need accommodation after they started their trip.

And what about international guests, are the people going to be trained medical professionals and also linguists, so that they can accomodate the guests whose Dr's write only in French or Korean?

But you would still have untrained CM's like in the post you referenced, and plenty of fakers. Such a policy would only hurt those with legitimate needs.

[Disneylvr]

Bavaria has stopped posting because of the hate speech on this site. I cried so hard because how could this site allow hate speech. We cannot put down people because of race or religion but them fat people are rude and stink and take up space. ECVx should be banned but if someone were to call jews ugly or stinky then we would major outcry and everyone would be on the side of the jews.

I begged Bavaria to stay and post but doubt she will listen as I am a fighter and am also fed up with people attacking my disabilities. I am at the verge of all out war against people who put down fat people and mobility devices. That would get me banned. I loved this site and will miss the Divas and disAbiolities but cannot handle this any more, no I said no I have found home sweet and safe and loving home here but I was wrong it seems. This site is condoning hate speech.

:grouphug: I really hope you won't leave as I enjoy having you here and you have helped me many times. Being a person of size too, I know exactly how you are feeling.

[mechurchlady]

:grouphug: I really hope you won't leave as I enjoy having you here and you have helped me many times. Being a person of size too, I know exactly how you are feeling.
No, dearest, it was you who helped me. You gave me something to do and someone to help. In my darkness you and others have cheered me on. You are out there fighting for your child instead of an institution like they did 50 years ago. Others see you and you change them and teach them about disabilities and special children. You are the heroine and you are the one who deserves a medal of valour and a big hug.

Thanks for the memories and take care. I am waiting for Sue and some others to respond. It is the Quaker in me or maybe it is my Mexican grandmother who chewed out the school board because they put the hispanic kids in tents. All hispanic kids were taught out in the tent and my abuela Esther fought to have her American born daughter taught like other Americans. It is in my blood that I do not tolerate hatemongers and hatespeech.

Bavaria come back please.

[bavaria]

Well, Laurie and Ntsammy5 got me to break my silence, if for one post! And how is that for three people with some very diverse backgrounds, but still having some very similar opinions on some topics? I really enjoyed 'meeting' people different from me here over the years, but I did need to take a break from the negativity.

I am going to my beloved DLRP this week, where things are sadly not quite so accessible, but where there doesn't seem to be the suspicion of those with certain needs. I have said over and over here that if people only tried to use an assistive device (whether a cane, sling, ECV or any other device) for a few hours, they would realise that the frustration of using those devices far outweighs any perceived benefits.

I also find an irony that there are many posters who rarely discuss their own situations, but are always ready to provide advice and assistance to others. I asked one of my buddies recently here offline if he realised that one of the posters on this thread (who is also prolific on the Transportation Board) if she had certain physical challenges. Although he had posted alongside her for years, he had no idea of her challenges because she simply didn't bring them up if they were not relevant.

Going back to the original question, there seems to be such diversity in posts here. So many seem to think that people using assistive devices are 'faking' or getting 'special benefits'. Those of you who post here know that isn't true, or at least for the vast majority of people. I refuse to believe that people are inherently so devious and selfish that they would fake injuries and go through the hassles to have those lovely 'perks' of waiting in line far longer than the regular lines.

We have threads from people who have a minor or temporary injury, who want those 'special priveleges'. When we point out that they may not be so special, or that they may in fact be able to enjoy their trip even with an injury, they seem to be offended that we don't understand.

Then we have the posters who seem to have that very special ability to diagnose and prescribe treatment for random strangers from afar. I am quite sure that you know those threads.

These things really sadden me. I don't think those posters realise how blessed they are not to have anyone in their family who has any special needs. Instead of looking at how much they have, they look at others and are jealous of what they perceive that they have. I don't wish ill on anyone but one day those people will come to realise how wrong they were to post such cruel, judgemental things here.

I joke about being the 'dirty foreigner'. I can handle myself when it comes to the xenophobic posts. But I am defeated by the ones spewing such negativity to those people who deserve compassion and consideration.

So, in honour of my buddies who have already posted on this thread I will enjoy a nice day tomorrow at a Disney park where people don't think the worst of each other, and will think of you. I have been on a break for several weeks now, but I do hope to find the energy and positive thoughts to come back and fight the battle (or be banned trying! ;) )

Wishing you all good thoughts and good health - I have a lot of respect for many of you here.

[SharkyGoddess]

Bavaria has stopped posting because of the hate speech on this site. I cried so hard because how could this site allow hate speech. We cannot put down people because of race or religion but them fat people are rude and stink and take up space. ECVx should be banned but if someone were to call jews ugly or stinky then we would major outcry and everyone would be on the side of the jews.

I begged Bavaria to stay and post but doubt she will listen as I am a fighter and am also fed up with people attacking my disabilities. I am at the verge of all out war against people who put down fat people and mobility devices. That would get me banned. I loved this site and will miss the Divas and disAbiolities but cannot handle this any more, no I said no I have found home sweet and safe and loving home here but I was wrong it seems. This site is condoning hate speech.

Mechurchlady I have seen a great many hate speeches against children as well and it is also very wrong to discriminate against a person for their age. If someone were to verbally bash an elderly person, you'd here outrage, but post disgust and what I have seen as violent thoughts and suggestions against children and some how it is acceptable. As a parent I find this frightening that this type of behavior would be allowed on what is supposed to be a family friendly board. So to say it is only the disabled who are being discriminated against is not true. Unfortunate that anyone should have to put up with hate, but discrimination, doesn't discriminate.

[mackay_j]

I won't go back it was one of the worst days ever had since my daughter was diagnosed (7 yrs before this) only 2nd time I ever had to use glucose injection. The whole thing just upset me too much to ever go back.

To the person who said this would never happened feel free to contact the name on the inset above to verify!!! And you said I judged! people!

Why can't the parks request info about illness/disability from guests before giving out these cards. Then everyone who has one even if they don't look like they have any problems would have one because they need it not because they want it. We don't go around giving out disability benefit and disabled parking badges based on what people want but instead based on what they need. If anything then the people who really do need help would get it even faster as people like that rude horrid woman from busch would not have a card. At the restaurant she even bragged about how easy it was to get and that guest services cant/ wont ask for proof. and about how her friends get them saying that their kids are ill/disabled even when they are not. She shouted this at me (I never attacked her I never even went near her, I was to busy dealing with my girl, She came right over to me! And only left when a Cm came and got her at the request of another geust who was watching all this). while she and her 3 friends laughed at me for not getting one for my girl. Her words- "what a laugh I got on you lot had to get off and you actually have a disabled person in your party."

So why can't the system be made less likely to be abused, all it would take would be a doctors letter/ disability benefit letter to get the card.

Then there would be no excuse not to give way to people who have these cards. I know how hard it is to look after a disabled person, I have just finished a years voluntary work looking after a severely disabled child (major head injury). I only worked with her for 1-2hrs a day for 3 days a week, and each day I was exhausted, by the lifting and manovering so have only admiration for those who on a daily basis do this for any special needs child or adult. And when we see them a Disney with autistic or physically challenged children they do it happily and with love, and that makes me both humble and happy.

I would gladly give up any seat on any ride for these people, however, I still would insist that all people in a party should be allowed to get off if one has too.

Ps I am not skinny myself by any stretch of the imagination. I was not saying that all fat people do this- I don’t but that some people do and the result is what happened to us

[Schmeck]

One problem with accepting a doctor's note is that it has been posted on these boards over and over again that someone has a doctor that volunteered to "write a note to get you to the front of the line", like the docs think they are all-powerful, line-cutting, note-writing gods.

People with a serious weight problem do have a disorder/disability. Not for one second do I think they enjoy being morbidly obese, and all the pain and stress that comes with it. Think of all the damage to the internal organs - the heart and liver and kidneys must be pretty much maxed out and ready to shut down at any time. I can't think of one obese person I know who is happy to be that way. At the opposite end of the scale, the anorexic is not happy either, obsessed with every morsel of food, every angle of the emaciated body being hated, etc. Weight problems are medical and emotional disabilities. Don't forget though, that a GAC is not issued for the disability, but for the need for accessibility.

I have witnessed possible GAC abuse - Two teenager girls ran giggling and laughing down the FP line at BTMRR, flashing the GAC at the CM. Very social (making eye contact with the CM, handsome young man) verbal, active. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt though. I also believe in karma.

[merryweather20]

I won't go back it was one of the worst days ever had since my daughter was diagnosed (7 yrs before this) only 2nd time I ever had to use glucose injection. The whole thing just upset me too much to ever go back.

To the person who said this would never happened feel free to contact the name on the inset above to verify!!! And you said I judged! people!

Why can't the parks request info about illness/disability from guests before giving out these cards. Then everyone who has one even if they don't look like they have any problems would have one because they need it not because they want it. We don't go around giving out disability benefit and disabled parking badges based on what people want but instead based on what they need. If anything then the people who really do need help would get it even faster as people like that rude horrid woman from busch would not have a card. At the restaurant she even bragged about how easy it was to get and that guest services cant/ wont ask for proof. and about how her friends get them saying that their kids are ill/disabled even when they are not. She shouted this at me (I never attacked her I never even went near her, I was to busy dealing with my girl, She came right over to me! And only left when a Cm came and got her at the request of another geust who was watching all this). while she and her 3 friends laughed at me for not getting one for my girl. Her words- "what a laugh I got on you lot had to get off and you actually have a disabled person in your party."

So why can't the system be made less likely to be abused, all it would take would be a doctors letter/ disability benefit letter to get the card.

Then there would be no excuse not to give way to people who have these cards. I know how hard it is to look after a disabled person, I have just finished a years voluntary work looking after a severely disabled child (major head injury). I only worked with her for 1-2hrs a day for 3 days a week, and each day I was exhausted, by the lifting and manovering so have only admiration for those who on a daily basis do this for any special needs child or adult. And when we see them a Disney with autistic or physically challenged children they do it happily and with love, and that makes me both humble and happy.

I would gladly give up any seat on any ride for these people, however, I still would insist that all people in a party should be allowed to get off if one has too.

Ps I am not skinny myself by any stretch of the imagination. I was not saying that all fat people do this- I don’t but that some people do and the result is what happened to us


Scroll up I've posted why a doctor's letter won't work. It would no doubt be more likely to be abused. If the people you encountered lied to Busch Gardens and were rude to you, do you really think they wouldn't write their own Dr's note?

It doesn't much matter what "proof" you have of the incident. Bumping others off of rides simply doesn't happen. Your situation was an aberration and nothing more. It does not reflect any accommodation given to any person with a disability at Busch Gardens or Disney. The employee could have been rude or simply poorly trained its anyone's guess.

[kaytieeldr]

One problem with accepting a doctor's note is that it has been posted on these boards over and over again that someone has a doctor that volunteered to "write a note to get you to the front of the line", like the docs think they are all-powerful, line-cutting, note-writing gods.
Yep. One of my doctors - who has been to Disney World more than once - has offered to do that for me. I never asked, and I never accepted.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I can understand the frustration with the Busch gardens incident. It was more than just the employee, it was the fact that the woman came up to her in a restaurant after the fact and decided to chew her out, even though what happened caused a medical emergency for the woman's daughter. When behavior like this occurs, is it any wonder that people start thinking differently about an entire group?

I'm going to be honest, as a CM I saw a lot of abuse of the GAC. I had people scream at me because they rented a wheelchair and that means they get into the line first. Literally scream at me. Unfortunately, with the amount of faking that goes on there is an attitude from CMs at times that overweight people are using it because they are too "fat" to walk. Now, coming here and hearing the stories and having some experiences with my mother and my friend who are both very overweight and need a wheelchair for unrelated conditions I know this is not true. But the people who abuse the system have created this impression and made it worse for everybody. Especially when you get people everyday who harass you or even scream at you because they rented a wheelchair and therefore they should not have to go through Standby or have any kind of wait.

That being said, I would never want to require proof of disability. Not everybody would think to bring it. It takes the spontaneity out of the equation. I'm sure there are people who are in the area and just decide to go for a day. They should be able to get teh same accommodations they would have if they had planned ahead.

There will always be people out there who abuse the system and give those with disabilities a bad name. There will always be people who will judge those with disabilities because of perceived injustices or because they like a previous poster have had incredibly negative experiences with those who are abusing the system. If we want to their attitudes, we can't allow ourselves to become overly emotional and abusive in term. We can simply need to gently tell them the truth that they need to be unaware of, and set an example in the parks by using the system the way it was meant to be used, as most here do.

[mackay_j]

merryweather- It simply did happen!! TO US!! I get very cross on boards like this when people try and tell you something cant/ wont happen when it did/does.

Yes from the correspondence that followed, I agree it was not meant to happen, but it did, and I am sure it won't be the first or the last time it will happen.
Busch assure me that the young lady and her friends were removed from the park after the restaurant incident at the request of other guests who witnessed the events unfold in front of them.

As for the needs of fat guests, I am a sure as anyone that they do need the chairs they use esp in the heat of florida, I would hate to see the discomfort they would experience if they had to walk in the parks, also the strain on there body would actualy be dangerous. What I am disagreeing about is that the gac card is open to abuse and IS abused. How do you get diabled car badges in USA do you not need proof for them.

Also I do not agree that being fat equates to having a disablity. I in fact think is is insulting to all those people who have actual disabilities, my cousins husband read this when they were visiting last night and was taken aback by someone believing they are disabled by being fat. He is 29 and 'recovering' for a major stroke he cannot walk or talk and only has use of 1 arm. He will never walk again according to doctors, as 1/3rd of his brain has had to be removed. He tries to get fitter by crawing about the floor and has now got to the stage (1 year later) of being able to crawl up and down the stairs for excersise. Last night he wrote would love to have 'your disability' and was infact angry by thet fact you have something that could be improved but yet most don't effectivly tackle it and he has something that docs say can't be over come and he is working all ours he can to try and overcome it as much as possible to try and have some sort of family life with his wife and 4year old son.

I am aware how hard maintaining weight can be as I said I am always battling my weight and thin I will never be, and I do have a medical condition that causes me to gain weight easily (polly cistic overies). But weight is just about control its a simple maths equation too much food makes you fat- I live on 800-1000 caleries a day and do not consume more than 6 grs fat a day (exept of hols:woohoo:). I have to take vitimans to keep to this healthly and drink water/eat sugar free jelly so as not to feal hungry (but that maintains my weight so its all my body needs). I know some have said but yes thats easy if you have an easy life. Here is a glimpse of mine: Over the couse of 18 months the following happened to us

One girl had septaciamia aged 2 (nearly died) left cortex damage- all sorts of issues
one girl diabetic with added potassium complications that causes fits
one girl tummor in spinal cord - no damage yet but docs baffled as huge inoperable tummor inside cord T4-T9


They all cope with it so that has made me learn to cope, yes it can be hard, and I would love to pig out due to stress and heart ache- but lifes too important and I have too much to do to allow myself to become incapitated due to not looking after myself! So to others who feal that life is too hard to try, reach down into the depths of your strength and try, use church, use support forums, use anything but at lest try getting fitter. It will turn your life arround. I know its hard- It was for me too, I was in such dispair when the last of the above 3 things happened to me, I fealt I was loosing my mind and I couldn't cope as a result my weight bloomed and I fealt I would never get it under control, but then I realised if the worst was to happen it would be me who would have to do most of the lifting of my darling daughter, so got to work getting control of it.

Well that was 6 yrs ago now and I am 56 pounds lighter than then. Luckly my youngest girl still seems Ok and is about to go to secondry school. She will never be out of the woods as docs just don't know why she is ok, all scan show she should not be able to walk -but she does. Please excuse me I never meant to sound as if I didn't care for fat people, in fact I understand how, why it happens more than most but I also do not believe you are disabled, you are in need of help, support , love and encouragement:flower3:. You have every right to be in disney or in any park and use the electric chairs. But you also have a duty to try and get help you owe it to yourselves, you are too valuble to live an unhappy life. However if you are truely happy being fat (I have a close friend who is- then you go for it!!! :cheer2:sometime I wish I could be like you)

[sdarwkcabemanmy]

The absolute anger/hatred/whatever towards seemingly able people in wheelchairs/EVCs was one of the reasons I didn't rent an EVC during our last trip despite the pain I was in from my feet.

I did rent a wheelchair on our honeymoon, many moons ago, and I felt so terrible because I am perfectly able bodied in most senses even if my feet do fail me when walking long distances. I hated using the accesible lines and I hated the looks people gave me when DH was pushing my chair around.

[mackay_j]

That awful, thats why a new policy should be brought in, disney is just to big to walk arround if you are in pain, it will take away from your enjoyment of the place. If some form of proof was required, then you would feel so much more at ease in the chair or scooter you deserve. It may also lead to a situation that could mean disney would be much more able to have different passes to meet the differing needs of guests. I also feal that the money disney charges for chairs, scooters is far to high. Here in Uk these things are given out free at many places you just need to show a disability badge or social services letter and leave a deposit to get one, most towns, tourist places have them.

[KPeveler]

mackay - the reason why you need proof for disabled parking spaces is that they are limited, and provide more accommodation than the average guest gets (because they are closer, etc). A GAC is designed ONLY to allow disabled guests to enjoy the parks AS MUCH AS able-bodied guests. It is federal law that no one can require proof of disability, so long as you are asking for a "reasonable accommodation." Obviously things like federal disability assistance is MORE than the average person gets, so it must be proven.

Part of the reason why people are not allowed to require proof is that would suddenly require the gov't to define "disabled" for all kinds of situations. Too disabled to wait in line is different than too disbled to see the screen is different than too disabled to walk, etc. I have faith in my gov't, but that seems like a bureaucratic nightmare!

Also, some people cannot afford more drs (i have been there!) or drs do not believe them. For close to 10 years i was told my genetic defect and all the pain it causes was due to stress! Stress is not a disability, and my dr would NOT have written me a note to allow me to use a wheelchair or scooter in disney, even though i needed one. my condition was just so rare that no one had seen it before.

also, can you imagine having to prove disability to use the lift on a bus? or be allowed to sit in the lower seats in a theatre? most companies don't have the manpower to check such things, and i can print a dr's note and a "certified disabled card" right here on my computer. I think it is more important to allow people free access, even if it allows in some cheaters, rather than restrict the system for people who actually do need it.

Some systems are so resticted that I am going to have to take a YEAR of paperwork to get my new wheelchair, when my disability dictates i get it NOW. That is because so many people abused the system, i have to jump through a thousand hoops.

There is no right answer. All we can do is the best we can, and keep trying to make it better :)

[Beccabunny]

T mackay_j Simple facts: a disability can cause one to become overweight. Sometimes simply being overweight is not a disability. Sometimes it causes other issues and it becomes a disabilty. Please stop judging who is and who is not disabled. Not everyone is physically capable of doing what your cousin's husband has done. I am fairly thin and have not had a stroke, yet with my disability it would be impossible to crawl around the floor and up and down stairs. The image of myself trying to attempt it is almost laughable.

[Beccabunny]

I've seen a lot of threads on here about people faking the need for an ECV, and sometimes there will be two people sharing an ECV and therefore neither person must really be disabled. I'm afraid at some point my family might be in that situation. My husband, daughter, and I are all disabled. At first glance none of us would appear to be disabled. My daughter has a special needs stroller which she needs for walking long distances. One of us has to push the stroller, which is not exactly lightweight. It's exhausting, but there is no other option as she can't psuh herself in a wheelchair. I don't know if she would ever be able to control a power chair, and I don't think our insurance would pay for it since at this point she doesn't need one for daily use. My husband and I both find our conditions to be worsening, and switching off on a ECV may be our only option if we want to continue to enjoy the parks.

[merryweather20]

merryweather- It simply did happen!! TO US!! I get very cross on boards like this when people try and tell you something cant/ wont happen when it did/does.

Yes from the correspondence that followed, I agree it was not meant to happen, but it did, and I am sure it won't be the first or the last time it will happen.
Busch assure me that the young lady and her friends were removed from the park after the restaurant incident at the request of other guests who witnessed the events unfold in front of them.

As for the needs of fat guests, I am a sure as anyone that they do need the chairs they use esp in the heat of florida, I would hate to see the discomfort they would experience if they had to walk in the parks, also the strain on there body would actualy be dangerous. What I am disagreeing about is that the gac card is open to abuse and IS abused. How do you get diabled car badges in USA do you not need proof for them.

Also I do not agree that being fat equates to having a disablity. I in fact think is is insulting to all those people who have actual disabilities, my cousins husband read this when they were visiting last night and was taken aback by someone believing they are disabled by being fat. He is 29 and 'recovering' for a major stroke he cannot walk or talk and only has use of 1 arm. He will never walk again according to doctors, as 1/3rd of his brain has had to be removed. He tries to get fitter by crawing about the floor and has now got to the stage (1 year later) of being able to crawl up and down the stairs for excersise. Last night he wrote would love to have 'your disability' and was infact angry by thet fact you have something that could be improved but yet most don't effectivly tackle it and he has something that docs say can't be over come and he is working all ours he can to try and overcome it as much as possible to try and have some sort of family life with his wife and 4year old son.

I am aware how hard maintaining weight can be as I said I am always battling my weight and thin I will never be, and I do have a medical condition that causes me to gain weight easily (polly cistic overies). But weight is just about control its a simple maths equation too much food makes you fat- I live on 800-1000 caleries a day and do not consume more than 6 grs fat a day (exept of hols:woohoo:). I have to take vitimans to keep to this healthly and drink water/eat sugar free jelly so as not to feal hungry (but that maintains my weight so its all my body needs). I know some have said but yes thats easy if you have an easy life. Here is a glimpse of mine: Over the couse of 18 months the following happened to us

One girl had septaciamia aged 2 (nearly died) left cortex damage- all sorts of issues
one girl diabetic with added potassium complications that causes fits
one girl tummor in spinal cord - no damage yet but docs baffled as huge inoperable tummor inside cord T4-T9


They all cope with it so that has made me learn to cope, yes it can be hard, and I would love to pig out due to stress and heart ache- but lifes too important and I have too much to do to allow myself to become incapitated due to not looking after myself! So to others who feal that life is too hard to try, reach down into the depths of your strength and try, use church, use support forums, use anything but at lest try getting fitter. It will turn your life arround. I know its hard- It was for me too, I was in such dispair when the last of the above 3 things happened to me, I fealt I was loosing my mind and I couldn't cope as a result my weight bloomed and I fealt I would never get it under control, but then I realised if the worst was to happen it would be me who would have to do most of the lifting of my darling daughter, so got to work getting control of it.

Well that was 6 yrs ago now and I am 56 pounds lighter than then. Luckly my youngest girl still seems Ok and is about to go to secondry school. She will never be out of the woods as docs just don't know why she is ok, all scan show she should not be able to walk -but she does. Please excuse me I never meant to sound as if I didn't care for fat people, in fact I understand how, why it happens more than most but I also do not believe you are disabled, you are in need of help, support , love and encouragement:flower3:. You have every right to be in disney or in any park and use the electric chairs. But you also have a duty to try and get help you owe it to yourselves, you are too valuble to live an unhappy life. However if you are truely happy being fat (I have a close friend who is- then you go for it!!! :cheer2:sometime I wish I could be like you)

I don't know how I can make myself more clear here. Your vitrol directed at the accommodations provided by Busch gardens and Disney is unfounded. The situation that you posted is not an example of accommodations provided to a person with a disability.

Its fine to be angry at the patron that was rude to you and Busch gardens for their poorly trained employee... but thats where it ends. You can't be angry at all other patrons that might need accommodation, they are simply not responsible for one freak incident of rudeness at Busch gardens. Neither does it permit you to judge all people who are overweight. Weight is not the be all end all. It does not tell you everything about that persons condition, and may in fact be a direct result of what they are facing.

It's nice your brother has found something that works for him, but obviously it won't work for everyone. Many deathly ill people, are put on medications that make them gain weight. Are you honestly going to tell my grandfather to "buck up" and crawl around on the floor? It wouldn't be possible, and it wouldn't make him any better.

[mackay_j]

you must have not read my post number 30 -I do agree that people who need help to get arround for what ever reason should have it. But I also think/know that as the systen stands at the moment (at least in busch) is open to abuse and that is a real shame. Look at the post from the guests who feel unable to use it because of others reactions- that is not right. Thats why I think a diff system is needed one that all guests who need it are happy to use.

[KPeveler]

mackay, there is an attitude toward disability that many find somewhere between uncomfortable and downright insulting, and that is called "The work harder" attitude, or the "positive thinking" attitude. I am not saying you have the attitude, just that your posts are coming across that you do.

The worker harder attitude implies that if one works harder or tries harder or just thinks more positively, they will be able to improve or even cure their disability. In 99% of cases this is simply untrue. Yes, we with disabilties have to work harder than the average person, but this will not make us "better." For example, my disability is due to a genetic defect, which will never go away and is literally causing my body to fall apart (literally, as in several dislocations a week).

I cannot "work harder" to overcome my disability. Crawling on the floor will not help. In fact, walking is making me worse.

The attitude that people who do not try to do as much as possible despite pain or whatever are somehow weak or wrong is what makes many of us afraid to get the help we need. That attitude is what your post about the person with the stroke implied. It may be that you did not mean it, but that is why many of us are upset by that comment.

Again, I am not saying you actually mean to come across like that, but I wanted you to be aware that is how some of us are reading it.

and NO, weight CANNOT be controlled through dangerous dieting like you suggest. Obviously you consulted with metabolic and GI specialists, as well as endocrinologists and dieticians before embarking on that dangerous a diet, so it must be safe for you, but there are conditions that will make you gain weight no matter how little you eat. My sister has Cushing's Disease for example...

I understand that certain things work for you and your family, but assumptions are being made that if it works for you (such as a rigidly controlled diet) it must work for everyone, and I think that is in error.

[Tinker*Shell*Bell]

I have witnessed possible GAC abuse - Two teenager girls ran giggling and laughing down the FP line at BTMRR, flashing the GAC at the CM. Very social (making eye contact with the CM, handsome young man) verbal, active. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt though. I also believe in karma.

You are sweet to give them the benefit of the doubt. If you had said 2 teenage boys it would have sounded just like my sons. Thank you for not judging.

At 14yrs old my ASD son wants to be independent but does not always have the skills. He is learning them slowly, and only by giving him the freedom to try will he gain true independence. Sometimes we send him with his 16yo brother so he feels like he is a typical teen, without mom and dad. (We are only ever a cell phone away.)

With us had a complete spinning meltdown in an unusually short 10 minute line at Snow White. It is a tightly spaced line, hot August temps, hot body smell, and noisy. Way too much stimulation. He could not handle it at all. (We left the line after only 4 mins.- Excuse us, pardon us, sorry, we need to exit, sorry.)

Fast forward 30 mins...Space Mtn FP line, singing and skipping down the line, all smiles, responded to the CM, even looked up at him.

Our trips go back and forth like this, and we finally give in to the GAC.

He has used it to get a CM's attention when he needs help knowing what to do, if he is confused about a ride entrance he has a conversation starter. He can ask for help during an all stop because he shows the card and knows the "script" is "I don't know what to do, can you help me?" Without the card he would never speak to them. Instead he can look at people, interact, and seem "normal." It is his shield to hide behind, it gives him freedom.

(And yeah, I know some people lie to get a card. I am not oblivious to that. I just wanted to be a voice for the side that looks like abuse but isn't.)


RE the Busch Gardens incident: Totally disgusting. I am so sorry this happened to you. Part of me hopes that staff member was fired. I am glad your dd was "fine" but that in no way excuses the bs they put you through. And the "lady" they made you move for? NASTY! To then brag about abusing the system is beyond belief. All I can say is that rude people come in all shapes, sizes, abilities and disabilities. Sounds like she was not a "rude handicapped woman"...she was a RUDE!!! woman who just happened to have a handicap.

[merryweather20]

you must have not read my post number 30 -I do agree that people who need help to get arround for what ever reason should have it. But I also think/know that as the systen stands at the moment (at least in busch) is open to abuse and that is a real shame. Look at the post from the guests who feel unable to use it because of others reactions- that is not right. Thats why I think a diff system is needed one that all guests who need it are happy to use.

I've read your post number 30# Its much the same as all your posts. I don't think I'll succed in convincing you that the incident you posted was rude people, and nothing more, but thats the truth.

A dr's note would be worth little more than the paper its printed on, as the posters have mentioned. You haven't responded to any of these concerns. Such a note would be easy to forge, or easy to obtain from an unscrupulous dr. But legitimate users would be forced to pay with their time and money, for a Dr's visit. It would have the opposite effect. Heck the rud e people you encountered would no longer have to lie to the employees face, they'd simply write down a quick note ahead of time.

[Beccabunny]

KPeveler, I've seen that attitude even among the disabled here on the boards. It's very disheartening, and I'm starting to feel these boards have lost their usefulness to my family. I'm getting tired of people who expect and demand reasonable accommodations for themselves, yet decide the accommodations others need are not reasonable.

As for the weight issue, my DD9 is rapidly gaining at a very alarming rate even though she DOESN'T EAT. We were just in Boston last week seeing a doctor who actually believes us when we say we don't stuff her face with food. This doctor says he's seen kids with metabolic disorders hospitalized and on 600 calorie per day diets and they STILL gain weight. He's sending us to a metabolic specialist in Cleveland because we can't get competent medical care here in Philadelphia. I relayed all this to a friend and she still tried to give me advice on what to feed my daughter. People just don't get it.

[KPeveler]

KPeveler, I've seen that attitude even among the disabled here on the boards. It's very disheartening, and I'm starting to feel these boards have lost their usefulness to my family. I'm getting tired of people who expect and demand reasonable accommodations for themselves, yet decide the accommodations others need are not reasonable.

As for the weight issue, my DD9 is rapidly gaining at a very alarming rate even though she DOESN'T EAT. We were just in Boston last week seeing a doctor who actually believes us when we say we don't stuff her face with food. This doctor says he's seen kids with metabolic disorders hospitalized and on 600 calorie per day diets and they STILL gain weight. He's sending us to a metabolic specialist in Cleveland because we can't get competent medical care here in Philadelphia. I relayed all this to a friend and she still tried to give me advice on what to feed my daughter. People just don't get it.

i am not saying that anyone specific on these boards has that attitude, but i have encountered the "if you just work harder, you wont be sick anymore," or my personal favorite "if you work harder, you can hide your problems so no one knows you're sick." nevermind that hiding my problems generally results in pain, fatigue, and me being housebound!

my sister has cushings disease, and she found a great dr at Mass Gen - a neuro-endocrinologist.

I am not trying to call anyone out - i just wanted to say that in general, the "if you just try harder" attitude is very difficult to deal with. It tells me that my disability is all in my head, and that if i "tough it out" then i can live a "happier life."

What people don't realize is that i am just fine being disabled! not that i would mind getting better, but as that is not going to happen (its a genetic defect, no treatment for that!) I have learned to accept and even embrace it. i refuse to feel defective or lesser or something simply because i need a wheelchair.

anyway, where this thread originally started is that people are dumb. people are dumb everywhere. and I can't make myself crazy because of other people's stupid. It's sad they are so ignorant and sheltered that they think i am faking my disability just cause i can stand up, but i honestly dont even notice anymore, and i just go on with my life and my vacation!

[MinnieVanMom]

Wow, what a thread! popcorn::

We are grateful for the GAC and the equality it brings to us while at WDW. I would gladly stand in line for 100 hours not to have to use our GAC and have a NT child. But that is not the reality.

I hate the stares, the remarks and rudeness. It hurts my feelings still to this day. But the fact of the matter is our DS can't wait in a line with people all around him. He will touch the peoples thighs, he will seek out sensory and touch anyone in any place. He is not rude, he is just trying to meet his needs. Unfortunately, warm skin that he can see is so tempting. Why is that?

So we go to the parks at rope drop and we use our GAC. It says so much so we don't have to explain to the CM's. When waiting to see Mulan the photopass and CM noticed out GAC hanging on my lanyard. They never said a word to me but a quick whisper in Mulan ear and she was aware that there may be issues with my DS. It was very kind.

The GAC is just a tool to help level the playing field so all can enjoy the majic. There will always be people that abuse the system but I believe Karma will come back. Maybe someday they will really have to need a GAC.

[mackay_j]

My 'attitude' is not towards people who have any disability what so ever, seen or unseen, The work harder attitude, along with the supporting them to do so attitude is to the people who are fat through over eating and that alone (the woman told me 'all she was was fat ' - her very words-I did not assume by looking at her!! I would never do that!). the question at the start was why people got cheesed off by gac- I only answered that. Noboby has asked would I be cheesed off if I saw another person who was in a similar situation use a Gac - No I would not as I wouldn't know why she had it. The GAC is not why I won't go back to Busch - the place was ruined for us -not in my happy place book- so no reason to go back.

Over eating is usualy brought on by depression and/or stress (but there are a few disorders that make people need to eat all the time and they are almost impossible to treat and people with then struggle to lead independant lifes). As I say I also sympathise with fat people but I don't believe that unless they are happy to be fat they should be just left to suffer with it, their problems are also important and medical help to support there diets should be provided. The US is not good at looking after its own - your care is all money driven and that is such a shame. The people on here talking of not having an enough money to have oven to prepare proper food, to provide care for relatives or see doctors, or buy the correct food, get counseling, and respite for time off is a shameful state of affairs not for them but for your country.

I know what it feels like to have your body start to fall apert on you and how no matter what you do you know it will only get worse. I have lupus I said so in my posts, I can do nothing about that, but hope. However, I can watch my weight as gaining too much will only make the lupus harder to deal with. I have every sympathy for disabled people if you read my situation with my own family you will understand that.


Also to the lady with the child gaining weight- Please -DO NOT cut back on a childs food to anything near what I eat (I am monitered by my GP have reg blood test and bone XRDs to ensure that I am OK) they need fats to grow no matter what advice anyone gives you -only do what your doctor and health care team tell you do do, regardless of the weight gain. I have worked in medical research for 20 years and in that time I specialised in weight gain (in mamals initially, work was for an animal pill- phase 2a studies where then planed to move it into the human health field). I saw many owners who had cut the food of pups back so much as they had been gaining to much weight for dog shows/racing, that the pups bone density had been damaged beyond repair. It's from my work in this field that I also know how sole destroying it is to be left to try and manage weight without help. FDA discussions/opinion on this subject were so diverse from the UK government ones, it made me angry to think that US people are just left to get on with it unless they have money/insurances to help. Thats probably why I pounsed on the help thing as I don't think you get enough of it, and I am well aware of the drug side affects that cause weight problems along with the conditions that can lead to weight gain spent more than several years discussing it with sufferes/ health care providers, FDA and the MAA, but I also know that there is help ouit there. We get it here, no matter what we earn! Also know that these conditions are in a sort of pain weight/circle. The pain prohits movement-weight gain- depression- more weight gain- more pain and onwards. The other fact is that no drug can be approved for long term use that can cause itself more than 10% body weight gain. If over 10% then indications for short term use only) Again what happens is the drug cause up to a 10% gain in body fat (usually steriods), deperssion/ hopelessness cause user to then gain more than that.

I'm sorry if anything I said offended anyone I guess you just hit my topic thats all! A bit of a bee in my bonet about nothing being done to help these people

[livndisney]

i am not saying that anyone specific on these boards has that attitude, but i have encountered the "if you just work harder, you wont be sick anymore," or my personal favorite "if you work harder, you can hide your problems so no one knows you're sick." nevermind that hiding my problems generally results in pain, fatigue, and me being housebound!

my sister has cushings disease, and she found a great dr at Mass Gen - a neuro-endocrinologist.

I am not trying to call anyone out - i just wanted to say that in general, the "if you just try harder" attitude is very difficult to deal with. It tells me that my disability is all in my head, and that if i "tough it out" then i can live a "happier life."

What people don't realize is that i am just fine being disabled! not that i would mind getting better, but as that is not going to happen (its a genetic defect, no treatment for that!) I have learned to accept and even embrace it. i refuse to feel defective or lesser or something simply because i need a wheelchair.

anyway, where this thread originally started is that people are dumb. people are dumb everywhere. and I can't make myself crazy because of other people's stupid. It's sad they are so ignorant and sheltered that they think i am faking my disability just cause i can stand up, but i honestly dont even notice anymore, and i just go on with my life and my vacation!

KP-I just wanted to say I LOVE what you wrote here (Bold). Some days I do better with this than others. I often find myself repeating your signature Walt quote when meeting a challenge.

I too have encountered "the additude" both on the boards and at WDW. I have lived the "if I work harder I can hide/ignore it". I am not so successful at it anymore.

:hug:

[KPeveler]

KP-I just wanted to say I LOVE what you wrote here (Bold). Some days I do better with this than others. I often find myself repeating your signature Walt quote when meeting a challenge.

I too have encountered "the additude" both on the boards and at WDW. I have lived the "if I work harder I can hide/ignore it". I am not so successful at it anymore.

:hug:

i kinda just made a virtue out of the inevitable, so now I am trying to use my disability for something constructive... that is not to say i always look like the inside message of a hallmark card, but I do try my best, and honestly wouldnt know what to do if i was not disabled, its become part of my identity...

[ireland_nicole]

While I'm sure the incident at Busch Gardens happened as the pp stated, it would not happen at Disney, for several reasons.

First, and most importantly, there is no GAC for mobility issues. You can use a wheelchair or ECV if needed. Usually you are in the same queue, occasionally you must use an alternate queue. Occasionally you may wait less, often you will wait longer, if you don't believe me, just try TSM or KS and then get back to me.

As KPevler and others have stated, GAC's only provide accessibility. If you can't walk, a mobility aid gives you the accessibility required. There seems to be some confusion here because of misconceptions that Disney hands out FOTL access to anyone (the exception being SOME MAW kids who are extremely medically fragile; not even all MAW kids get FOTL access.)

I require an ECV because of an auto immune condition. I do not use a GAC.
My kids are both on the autism spectrum, in addition, DD has a seizure disorder, DS has hypotonia and they have other disabilities. We get a gac for them that directly relates to providing them as much access to the park as possible. We get stroller as wheelchair, because they both need a safe "nest" when overstimulated, and because DS needs it when his muscles start to tire out. DS gets a shaded queue accomodation because becoming overheated will cause seizures, and also her meds make her extremely photosensitive. We at times use an alternate entrance accomodation because we need a little more space around us to not injure them or someone else in a meltdown, and because some of the preshows are too stimulating for DS.

There are many things we still cannot do. Nemo has no shaded queue available, Fantasmic is impossible, and there are others. But we feel that Disney does everything they can to make the parks accessible. We don't get, nor do we expect, "special treatment." We just want to be able to experience the park like everyone else as much as possible.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I think everybody (especially CMs) should be required to spend a day in a wheelchair in one of the parks. Unfortunately because of the abuse you do find CMs (I'm not saying all or even most) who when they see a person in a rented wheelchair, especially somebody who is over weight or is very young, is faking it to get in quicker. This is because there are many people out there who do rent them for that reason and then proceed to scream at us when we ask them to go through the regular line. That has jaded many otherwise wonderful and compassionate CMs. I admit, that there have been times when I have been suspicious.

One thing that opened my eyes was when I was injured by an ECV. A man in an ECV ran over my achilles tendon and I was told I could not be on it for more than ten minutes at a time. I went to DAK on my day off and rented a wheelchair since obviously it can take more than just 10 minutes to walk to a ride. I was by myself and pushing the wheelchair up those hills was very hard. In fact, other guests were stopping to ask me if I wanted help. I'm sure people thought I was faking because there is no way you could see the brace underneath my jeans. It did help me to reevaluate my attitude and to remember that you never know what is going on. It also made me realize that even cast members buy into this myth about renting a wheelchair to get perks (and it certainly does happen from time to time) and don't realize the challenges that come with being in a wheelchair.

[SueM in MN]

This thread has some important things to think about.
Unfortunately, some of the things said here have caused some hurt feelings and I have had several thread/post reports based on this thread.
I'm very sad about that. This board is not usually home to hurtful comments, but they happen here too when people only see things from their own perspective (and some of those same kinds of things are why I wrote the Open Letter from SueM.)

I could go thru this thread and edit out anything that might have made someone feel bad or feel attached.
Or close the thread.
And add infractions to people who wrote them.
I'm not going to do any of those tonight though.
What I am going to do is ask each person who has posted on this thread to read their own post.
Read it as if you were seeing it for the first time. If you wrote something negative, think of how you would feel if someone else had written that about whatever condition/disability you or your loved ones have.
ASK YOURSELF
Would you think it was OK if it was written about you or a loved one?
Would you think it was OK if you were reading it and someone else had written it?
Would you say it to someone's face?

If the answer to any of these questions is "NO", please edit what you wrote.

Please keep these things in mind tonight in doing your editing and in the future in posting to these boards.


Some comments I have about some of the things already posted.
One problem with accepting a doctor's note is that it has been posted on these boards over and over again that someone has a doctor that volunteered to "write a note to get you to the front of the line", like the docs think they are all-powerful, line-cutting, note-writing gods.
Unfortunately, very true.

I have seen websites (which I WON'T LINK TO AND PLEASE NO ONE ELSE FIND AND LINK EITHER), where people suggested forging a doctor's note to get some 'special treatment'.
Don't forget though, that a GAC is not issued for the disability, but for the need for accessibility.

A very important point.
That awful, thats why a new policy should be brought in, disney is just to big to walk arround if you are in pain, it will take away from your enjoyment of the place. If some form of proof was required, then you would feel so much more at ease in the chair or scooter you deserve. It may also lead to a situation that could mean disney would be much more able to have different passes to meet the differing needs of guests. I also feal that the money disney charges for chairs, scooters is far to high. Here in Uk these things are given out free at many places you just need to show a disability badge or social services letter and leave a deposit to get one, most towns, tourist places have them.
That is in the UK, but things are not the same in the US.
There is a law about accessibility (The Americans with Disabilities Act) that states people can NOT be forced to prove that they are disabled in order to get the accommodations/access that they need.
There are also very few things that people with disabilities get free in the US.
mackay - the reason why you need proof for disabled parking spaces is that they are limited, and provide more accommodation than the average guest gets (because they are closer, etc). A GAC is designed ONLY to allow disabled guests to enjoy the parks AS MUCH AS able-bodied guests. It is federal law that no one can require proof of disability, so long as you are asking for a "reasonable accommodation." Obviously things like federal disability assistance is MORE than the average person gets, so it must be proven.

Part of the reason why people are not allowed to require proof is that would suddenly require the gov't to define "disabled" for all kinds of situations. Too disabled to wait in line is different than too disbled to see the screen is different than too disabled to walk, etc. I have faith in my gov't, but that seems like a bureaucratic nightmare!

Also, some people cannot afford more drs (i have been there!) or drs do not believe them. For close to 10 years i was told my genetic defect and all the pain it causes was due to stress! Stress is not a disability, and my dr would NOT have written me a note to allow me to use a wheelchair or scooter in disney, even though i needed one. my condition was just so rare that no one had seen it before.

also, can you imagine having to prove disability to use the lift on a bus? or be allowed to sit in the lower seats in a theatre? most companies don't have the manpower to check such things, and i can print a dr's note and a "certified disabled card" right here on my computer. I think it is more important to allow people free access, even if it allows in some cheaters, rather than restrict the system for people who actually do need it.

Some systems are so resticted that I am going to have to take a YEAR of paperwork to get my new wheelchair, when my disability dictates i get it NOW. That is because so many people abused the system, i have to jump through a thousand hoops.

There is no right answer. All we can do is the best we can, and keep trying to make it better :)
::yes::

RE the Busch Gardens incident: Totally disgusting. I am so sorry this happened to you. Part of me hopes that staff member was fired. I am glad your dd was "fine" but that in no way excuses the bs they put you through. And the "lady" they made you move for? NASTY! To then brag about abusing the system is beyond belief. All I can say is that rude people come in all shapes, sizes, abilities and disabilities. Sounds like she was not a "rude handicapped woman"...she was a RUDE!!! woman who just happened to have a handicap.
Something like that should not happen and does not happen often.

But, I agree that was not a rude handicapped woman. THAT was a rude woman who would have been rude with or without a handicap/disability.
KPeveler, I've seen that attitude even among the disabled here on the boards. It's very disheartening, and I'm starting to feel these boards have lost their usefulness to my family. I'm getting tired of people who expect and demand reasonable accommodations for themselves, yet decide the accommodations others need are not reasonable.
That is the sort of sad feeling that prompted me to write the Open Letter from SueM. There was a lot of "my disability is worse than yours" or "I don't see why someone with 'x' needs any accommodation."

I have always operated under the assumption that I want to give factual information so people know what to expect. Whatever is their problem, my goal is to help them. Although sometimes someone doesn't like the answer, the answers I give are based on being here on the DIS Boards since 1999, being a nurse for longer than that (but I don't want to give away my age) and many, many trips to WDW over the years with a variety of people with a variety of 'issues'.
I, too, am a believer in karma.
I do believe what goes around comes around.
Maybe not always quickly, but over the years I have seen enough posts from people that start out "I used to think everyone with wheelchairs or ECVs ........., until I had to use one and saw how difficult it was. And I will never say that again."

Thanks, Karma.
As for the weight issue, my DD9 is rapidly gaining at a very alarming rate even though she DOESN'T EAT. We were just in Boston last week seeing a doctor who actually believes us when we say we don't stuff her face with food. This doctor says he's seen kids with metabolic disorders hospitalized and on 600 calorie per day diets and they STILL gain weight. He's sending us to a metabolic specialist in Cleveland because we can't get competent medical care here in Philadelphia. I relayed all this to a friend and she still tried to give me advice on what to feed my daughter. People just don't get it.
:hug:

What people don't realize is that i am just fine being disabled! not that i would mind getting better, but as that is not going to happen (its a genetic defect, no treatment for that!) I have learned to accept and even embrace it. i refuse to feel defective or lesser or something simply because i need a wheelchair.
:hug:
My youngest DD is disabled and has never known anything different because that is how she has always been.
We can treat some of her symptoms, but she is never going to be 'normal' (whatever that is anyway).
anyway, where this thread originally started is that people are dumb. people are dumb everywhere. and I can't make myself crazy because of other people's stupid. It's sad they are so ignorant and sheltered that they think i am faking my disability just cause i can stand up, but i honestly dont even notice anymore, and i just go on with my life and my vacation!
I've said this over and over (sorry, if you have read it before), but we have heard the "Look at that girl in the wheelchair. They are some of those fakers".
Just because someone is out of a wheelchair doesn't mean they don't need it. In my DD's case, she can't walk and although she could crawl when she was little, she can't anymore, so without her wheelchair, she can't move.

SO, just because someone can't see a problem doesn't mean that there is no problem.
KP-I just wanted to say I LOVE what you wrote here (Bold). Some days I do better with this than others. I often find myself repeating your signature Walt quote when meeting a challenge.

I too have encountered "the additude" both on the boards and at WDW. I have lived the "if I work harder I can hide/ignore it". I am not so successful at it anymore.

:hug:
:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: to everyone

[honugirl]

As for the weight issue, my DD9 is rapidly gaining at a very alarming rate even though she DOESN'T EAT. We were just in Boston last week seeing a doctor who actually believes us when we say we don't stuff her face with food. This doctor says he's seen kids with metabolic disorders hospitalized and on 600 calorie per day diets and they STILL gain weight. He's sending us to a metabolic specialist in Cleveland because we can't get competent medical care here in Philadelphia. I relayed all this to a friend and she still tried to give me advice on what to feed my daughter. People just don't get it.

You might want to have her cortisol levels checked. Also check her ACTH and have a scan of her adrenal glands and a dynamic (with contrast) study done of her pituitary gland. I have Cushing's Disease, caused by a 3x2x1 mm (plus tail) tumor on my pituitary gland. I just had it removed at MD Anderson last Wednesday. No matter what I eat, I gain weight, plus have a whole host of other issues. Feel free to PM me for more info.

i am not saying that anyone specific on these boards has that attitude, but i have encountered the "if you just work harder, you wont be sick anymore," or my personal favorite "if you work harder, you can hide your problems so no one knows you're sick." nevermind that hiding my problems generally results in pain, fatigue, and me being housebound!

Amen to that!!!!! I know exactly the feeling.

my sister has cushings disease, and she found a great dr at Mass Gen - a neuro-endocrinologist.


I have Cushing's Disease as well. I saw a neuro-endo at Mass Gen as well, but ended up getting my diagnosis through another endo in CA and just had pit surgery last week at MD Anderson. Hoping for a cure! :thumbsup2

[Talking Hands]

I can assure you this did happen and have the emails from bucsh to prove it. as a first aider was involved the Cm from the ride was called in to Guest sevices to explain to management what had happened. They could not have apologised more - after the fact. That why on our return we have been given a free trip back. but as I said we will not be going. It was the lady herself who told me why she got the pass!!.

An extract from one of the mails that followed this visit.

Please accept our apologies that you were not able to experience the type of day you had expected regarding the incident on Gwazi. We are, however, grateful for the opportunity to respond. Busch Gardens is committed to providing an enjoyable experience that entertains and enriches all of our guests, and we regret that your experiences did not meet expectations. A copy of your letter was forwarded to operations departments for their review and corrective measures to ensure that this will not happen again.

In light this incident, as we value your loyalty, please send us your
tickets and we will gladly replace them for another visit to Busch Gardens Tampa Bay.

Once more thank you responding to our email and we are looking forward to hosting you again soon.

Sincerely,


Christian Y. Triscornia
Guest Relations Specialist
Busch Gardens Tampa Bay/ Adventure Island
P.O.Box 9158
Tampa, FL 33674
Phone 813-987-5885
Fax 813-987-5111
Christian.Triscornia@BuschGardens.com
www.buschgardens.com (http://www.buschgardens.com)

Well Busch Gardens is not Disney nor does it have any connection to Disney. The way you wrote the complaint here made it seem like it was a Disney problem. GAC is Disney's name for the card.

[KPeveler]

i think a lot of things have been said in this thread that could be hurtful or at least construed as such.

for my part i didn't mean to attack anyone, i just wanted to point out in general an attitude i thought was becoming evident, and why that attitude can be hurtful.

the most important thing is to remember everyone's disability is different, and what works for one person will not work for others.

for example, i know someone with the same condition I have, who uses orthotics in his shoes, thats it. he needs nothing else. he was mad at me one day for looking like i was "looking for attention" for using my cane and wheelchair. my manifestation is more severe than his, and he just didnt get it. i no longer really talk to this person.

I have seen people try to play the "I'm worse than you" game (in general, not on these boards). I'm sick, hurt more, younger, older, more pathetic, i have kids, i have no one, etc. No one is "worse" than anyone else. Someone may have a more severe manifestation or case of a disease or problem, but that does not make them "worse." Anyway, who wants to win the "I'm worse" game???

Hopefully this thread has reminded all of us that we are all human, and most of us are disabled/sick or have kids who are. That means seemingly abstract issues are intensely personal. Hopefully we can take the chance Sue gave us, all calm down, and resume helping each other through clearly difficult things in our lives. :flower3:

hugs all around, and i hope no hard feelings. :grouphug:

[ireland_nicole]

i think a lot of things have been said in this thread that could be hurtful or at least construed as such.

for my part i didn't mean to attack anyone, i just wanted to point out in general an attitude i thought was becoming evident, and why that attitude can be hurtful.

the most important thing is to remember everyone's disability is different, and what works for one person will not work for others.

for example, i know someone with the same condition I have, who uses orthotics in his shoes, thats it. he needs nothing else. he was mad at me one day for looking like i was "looking for attention" for using my cane and wheelchair. my manifestation is more severe than his, and he just didnt get it. i no longer really talk to this person.

I have seen people try to play the "I'm worse than you" game (in general, not on these boards). I'm sick, hurt more, younger, older, more pathetic, i have kids, i have no one, etc. No one is "worse" than anyone else. Someone may have a more severe manifestation or case of a disease or problem, but that does not make them "worse." Anyway, who wants to win the "I'm worse" game???

Hopefully this thread has reminded all of us that we are all human, and most of us are disabled/sick or have kids who are. That means seemingly abstract issues are intensely personal. Hopefully we can take the chance Sue gave us, all calm down, and resume helping each other through clearly difficult things in our lives. :flower3:

hugs all around, and i hope no hard feelings. :grouphug:

:thumbsup2- and thanks, Sue!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Windjammermay]

I had notice people talking about GAC. SO, what is it? :confused3

[KPeveler]

I had notice people talking about GAC. SO, what is it? :confused3

go check out the FAQs, and check them out. they are designed to help people with invisibilities get accommodations they need, such as help with sensory issues. in general, you do not need one if your needs are met with a wheelchair. the FAQs are a great start!

[Windjammermay]

I have to bring my electric chair. It is so exciting to go to Dis. the plan ride and just everything. I have been wheelchair bound for about 14 years. I am generaly on other boards for crips, gimps and wheeliers. There are similar storys about how AB's (able bodys) may treat you. And always the invisible disabiilty that is not understood.

It is all in YOUR attidute. There is good in the worst of use and bad in the best of use, who am I to say any thing about the rest of use. Be the first one to smile and the rest is all good. :woohoo:

[mechurchlady]

I have to bring my electric chair. It is so exciting to go to Dis. the plan ride and just everything. I have been wheelchair bound for about 14 years. I am generaly on other boards for crips, gimps and wheeliers. There are similar storys about how AB's (able bodys) may treat you. And always the invisible disabiilty that is not understood.

It is all in YOUR attidute. There is good in the worst of use and bad in the best of use, who am I to say any thing about the rest of use. Be the first one to smile and the rest is all good. :woohoo:
You would not need a GAC as it is for guests with hidden disabiilties like no stairs, no sun, vision, and hearing. Right now I am fighting the battle against stereotyping fat people as lazy. Welcome aboard and have fun here.

[MamaMo]

I have Lupus also as well as Fibromyalgia and severe Vertigo. None of these disabilities are visual. When I am walking down the street and I am stumble because of my Vertigo, I know people who do not know of my Vertigo believe I have been drinking. It is hard to be judged based on outward appearances, but I have tried very hard not to let it get me down. :hippie:

Try to let the hurt go away and make the magic of Disney fill your heart. :wizard:

That is my philosphy.:teacher:

[Windjammermay]

Thanks for the "welcome aboard" mechurchlady. I had looked up GAC and I am not sure if I would want one. My electric chair is pretty well set up for what I need. It is an Invacare TDX5 with tilt and recline in it also has a holder for my catheter bag (I would not want to get seperated from that :eek:) . I would perfer not to go on a ride if people are going to give you dirty looks for cutting in line. I can transfer but can not really walk. People may get mad at me for slowing down the ride. I will look for a tree to sit under if I get over heated. I even have a sterio system in my chair so sitting there looking on would not be so bad. :cloud9:

Just the chance to go is everything. :love:

Good luck with fighting the battle against stereotyping fat people as lazy. I am no light weight myself. With all the meds. and steriods I take to breath it sure puts the pounds on you. Not being able to walk or jump around will keep the weight on. I have a liver disease and when it swells up my stomach sticks out horribly along with hernias.

[ireland_nicole]

Hold on there windammermay-
You are right that you don't need a GAC, but please, please, don't feel like you shouldn't go on a ride just because you might slow it down... you have every right to enjoy Disney! There may be a couple of rides (I immediately think of Peter Pan, where they can't slow it down) that might not be safe for you, but any other rides that are safe for you to get on and you are comfortable riding- GO FOR IT!!!!!!! The rides are designed to provide accessability- that means you, and others like ya, are supposed to be able to enjoy it. And if transfers are difficult, many of the rides, like the boats for It's a small world, have unit that is adapted for you to ride onto with your ultra comfy wheels (I have to admit, the stereo impresses me to no end:cool1:)
As far as overheating concerns, there are lots of places that are well air conditioned, but I wanted to specifically let you know about the first aid center in each park. They are a wonderful, quiet, air conditioned area where you can rest and get your equilibrium back. And as always, please let us know if you have any questions, we've got your back:banana:

Just don't think Disney World is just there for you to look at; it's there for you to experience!

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Good points Nicole! The CMs are very good at their job and most of the time we can get people with disabilities on the ride in an expedient (and safe) manner. Even if it does take a little longer, we want you to enjoy it. Nicole is right about Peter Pan being unable to stop the moving belt for transfers. That was something I always hated about working that ride, but there is simply not a safe way to do it. But that is the only ride I know of that has that problem.

[TheZue]

T mackay_j Simple facts: a disability can cause one to become overweight.

This needs to be brought up again. A lot of people who are overweight in chairs aren't in the chairs because they are overweight, they are overweight because they can't exercise. I love how people hate fat people so much that they can't even handle the thought that anyone, even somebody who can't walk, could possibly be fat and not have it due to lazyiness.

Anyways, of all the times I've been to Disneyland I've seen ONE person abusing a gac. It was two teen boys and they were running around pushing the chair and swapping who got to sit in it and laughing about it. I honestly think it's really really rare. I think a lot of the problems come from being on a board like this and once you hear a story like that you are going to look at it a little differently when you see the GAC card.

Another problem right now is for whatever reason there is a backlash slowly gaining steam against the diagnosis of autism in kids. They think since the numbers are rising that it's not real and it's somehow the parents fault. If they would look at the rates of 'mental retardation' that was diagnosed 40 years ago they'd realize that we now know what's really going on with these kids and they are getting a more accurate diagnosis now instead of just writing them off. I think some of that anger is coming through on this issue. They can give me all the dirty looks they want, I'm not going back to the 60s model of sending off your 'different' child to an institution or hiding them in the house. I'll get that GAC and hopefully we won't need it, but he deserves to go on all the rides we paid for just like everyone else.

And the doctors notes would cause Disney a lot of headaches. On the west coast a lot of people go to Disneyland incedentally along the way on their California vacation. They don't do a lot of planning and just show up. That's what my parents did with me in 1995 and had they told my mom that she needed a doctors note to use her wheelchair to get to the rides they would have HAD to leave since she couldn't walk any great distance or stand very long. It seems like everyone obsessively plans because of the board we are on, but they really don't.

[pudge the fish]

[QUOTE=MamaMo;31181885]I have Lupus also as well as Fibromyalgia and severe Vertigo. None of these disabilities are visual. When I am walking down the street and I am stumble because of my Vertigo, I know people who do not know of my Vertigo believe I have been drinking. It is hard to be judged based on outward appearances, but I have tried very hard not to let it get me down. :hippie: QUOTE]



I have SO BEEN THERE- I have had a low sugar episode and passed out at Epcot- People around kept saying , Ooh She's drunk cause we saw her weave and stumble before she passsed out. A WONDERFUL CM who ran to help my hubby, told everyone to back off I was a diabetic
anyway it has happened a couple times - some days at Disney I am good and others days my sugar can drop in what seems to be 2 seconds:(

I also trip over my own two feet and stumble up stairs, curbs and fall down steps and even trip while walking down Main street- Tripped today while at DTD over my own foot and skinned my knee. Hubby comes prepared with meds and bandaids;) My feet and knees don't always communicate with my brain:)

First Aid and I are best friends over skinned knees :love:
I never think about what others may think it's MY times at Disney- some people have a problem with life and take it out on everyone.

I have heard a few comments at night while being "led" to the exit- (I can't see much at night unless I am on top of bumping into someone)and I have heard, Are you blind ? my comeback is "Nope , not yet but probably one day very soon" That shuts them up:)
Still working on a Tshirt with Mickey wearing shades & a cane- still thinking of snappy line for it. :idea:

[mechurchlady]

Well, Laurie and Ntsammy5 got me to break my silence, if for one post! And how is that for three people with some very diverse backgrounds, but still having some very similar opinions on some topics? I really enjoyed 'meeting' people different from me here over the years, but I did need to take a break from the negativity.

I am going to my beloved DLRP this week, where things are sadly not quite so accessible, but where there doesn't seem to be the suspicion of those with certain needs. I have said over and over here that if people only tried to use an assistive device (whether a cane, sling, ECV or any other device) for a few hours, they would realise that the frustration of using those devices far outweighs any perceived benefits.

I also find an irony that there are many posters who rarely discuss their own situations, but are always ready to provide advice and assistance to others. I asked one of my buddies recently here offline if he realised that one of the posters on this thread (who is also prolific on the Transportation Board) if she had certain physical challenges. Although he had posted alongside her for years, he had no idea of her challenges because she simply didn't bring them up if they were not relevant.

Going back to the original question, there seems to be such diversity in posts here. So many seem to think that people using assistive devices are 'faking' or getting 'special benefits'. Those of you who post here know that isn't true, or at least for the vast majority of people. I refuse to believe that people are inherently so devious and selfish that they would fake injuries and go through the hassles to have those lovely 'perks' of waiting in line far longer than the regular lines.

We have threads from people who have a minor or temporary injury, who want those 'special priveleges'. When we point out that they may not be so special, or that they may in fact be able to enjoy their trip even with an injury, they seem to be offended that we don't understand.

Then we have the posters who seem to have that very special ability to diagnose and prescribe treatment for random strangers from afar. I am quite sure that you know those threads.

These things really sadden me. I don't think those posters realise how blessed they are not to have anyone in their family who has any special needs. Instead of looking at how much they have, they look at others and are jealous of what they perceive that they have. I don't wish ill on anyone but one day those people will come to realise how wrong they were to post such cruel, judgemental things here.

I joke about being the 'dirty foreigner'. I can handle myself when it comes to the xenophobic posts. But I am defeated by the ones spewing such negativity to those people who deserve compassion and consideration.

So, in honour of my buddies who have already posted on this thread I will enjoy a nice day tomorrow at a Disney park where people don't think the worst of each other, and will think of you. I have been on a break for several weeks now, but I do hope to find the energy and positive thoughts to come back and fight the battle (or be banned trying! ;) )

Wishing you all good thoughts and good health - I have a lot of respect for many of you here.
It is a week and no word from Bavaria, gone and not forgotten.

[SueM in MN]

It is a week and no word from Bavaria, gone and not forgotten.
:hug:

[MamaMo]

My disabilities are very hidden. I never knew about the GAC before reading these posts.

I do have a problem with people who have a large party and are in either in wheelchair or an ecv and the entire party loads the bus in entirety. My vertigo is so severe that if I stand for too long a period in one place, I lose my balance and I will fall to the ground.

We were standing in line for a bus to the Magic Kingdom and party came to the bus at the last minute. There was over 20 people with the individual in the wheelchair all the people were allowed to board with this person. With our position in line, that meant I did not get a seat and had to stand. My DH told several people about my disability and as well the driver and even ask people in the original that boarded and no one gave up their seats. I had to stand and I ended making the decision to sit on the floor of the bus before falling over. The bus driver saw what had happened and he was concerned so were other passengers, but the original party that got on did not seem to care and they were pushing trying to get off first and not wait for their wheelchair bound member. I think is why people get annoyed at people in wheelchairs/ecv's.

They get even more annoyed if they see if they are large. People naturely assume these people are lazy. I told my DH need not be angry at the person in the chair we should be angry at the people who do not know what is like to walk in our shoes.:hippie:

[bouncycat]

My disabilities are very hidden. I never knew about the GAC before reading these posts.

I do have a problem with people who have a large party and are in either in wheelchair or an ecv and the entire party loads the bus in entirety. My vertigo is so severe that if I stand for too long a period in one place, I lose my balance and I will fall to the ground.

We were standing in line for a bus to the Magic Kingdom and party came to the bus at the last minute. There was over 20 people with the individual in the wheelchair all the people were allowed to board with this person. With our position in line, that meant I did not get a seat and had to stand. My DH told several people about my disability and as well the driver and even ask people in the original that boarded and no one gave up their seats. I had to stand and I ended making the decision to sit on the floor of the bus before falling over. The bus driver saw what had happened and he was concerned so were other passengers, but the original party that got on did not seem to care and they were pushing trying to get off first and not wait for their wheelchair bound member. I think is why people get annoyed at people in wheelchairs/ecv's.

They get even more annoyed if they see if they are large. People naturely assume these people are lazy. I told my DH need not be angry at the person in the chair we should be angry at the people who do not know what is like to walk in our shoes.:hippie:

AMEN!!! Tell people to walk in our shoes for a day, and that may calm them down some. I don't look down at people in ECV's, because one day soon I will need one. My disability is hidden too, I have a rare type of Muscular Dystrophy, I can walk, but it gets hard after being on my feet all day. I don't use a chair yet, but will very soon. So, I know how you feel, and it's hard having a hidden disability, but just don't let people get to you, and you'll be fine. People will be rude, and people will be great, it's a crapshoot!!

[MamaMo]

I have disability parking placard. I don't use it all the time. I use it when I am having a bad day and it is needed. Well, yesterday I was having a bad day and I had to use it. All the stares I got because I look like an able bodied person.

I did not know about a GAC last year, but I told a CM at the stunt show that I had Vertigo and without hesitation they placed my family in a row where I didn't have to climb stairs and risk getting very dizzy. This saved my DH from worrying about me and he
could relax and enjoy the show.:banana:

That is why I love Disney so much!:thumbsup2

[ireland_nicole]

hey mamamo; yes, next trip get a gac for no stairs; that way it should take that dizziness "trigger" out of the equation, and make you a lot safer. My DH and I have found that by driving and parking in h/c parking, it's a lot easier. Esp. at Epcot and DHS, the h/c is no further than the busses, at AK minimally further. At MK- o.k., a lot further as you're at the TTC and the parking there is awful, but you could park at the end of a regular row and then pick up the tram. Still might be easier to take the bus to MK though. I just mention it because then you don't have to worry about standing waiting for the busses, or God forbid, standing on them while moving (I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you with your condition.) We use our car b/c of kiddos w/ autism (much easier then the bus line with a kid melting down.) and because of my autoimmune problems, I have an ECV and a h/c tag. I hadn't realized how much freer we felt with our car.

[mechurchlady]

:hug:
Bavaria is oon hiatus and will back but I miss him so much and it is the people ho demand that they are right now matter what. I seen some of the people who have been attacking him and others.

I gave up on this board after attacks on my knowledge and now I see people hunting down mistakes and nitpicking on the boards.

The worst things in parks and on boards is that people attack a label instead of the root cause which is stupidity, arrogance, impatience, lack of manners, poor parenting, illness, greed, coveteousness, etc not the label. The person will take advantage of the system even if they are not gay, fat, skinny, hispanic, or muslim. Slap a label and show that that group is bad. It is like the race card in reverse. Instead of someone handing a card with a label then saying they were dissed or denied something because of the labeled card is use against them. You are rude because you are XXX label.

I just get comfty here and have my bags packed again because of judgemental people. I miss bavaria. He will be back eventually, hopefully, maybe.

[Puget Peach]

The worst things in parks and on boards is that people attack a label instead of the root cause which is stupidity, arrogance, impatience, lack of manners, poor parenting, illness, greed, coveteousness, etc not the label.
My SO uses a power chair due to an ankle injury. He is in excellent physical shape otherwise. Talk about the looks! He loves to do coasters, so we ocassionally visit Universal's Islands of Adventure and Busch Gardens. The non Disney employees are so poorly trained, we frequently felt unsafe while loading and off loading. More than a few times we would be in a line for over an hour only to find a barrier where we had to turn around to get out of the line and no employees in sight. We visit Disney again and again because the most poorly trained CM is superior to those elsewhere IMO. We never have to try to figure out how to cue on a Disney attraction. We have had issues at Pirates of the Carribean off load, but the ride manager was called promptly and treated us with the utmost respect. If a few ignorant and/or self centered people "fake" a disability to get some sort of minimal or perceived advantage, perhaps their disability IS their ignorance? But I am also aware that all sorts of conditions can affect a person's behavior, so I would be very slow to attribute seeming rudeness or inappropriate behavior as only ignorance or self centeredness. No one, and I mean no one, can take away the pixie dust from my trips to visit Mickey. I just sprinkle some pixie dust in their direction and hope that some of it sticks.:wizard:

[Notatourist]

Pudget-

Have you mentioned anything about your feelings of loading and unloading at these non-Disney parks?

These people do take a huge number of classes to better handle these kinds of loading procedures, so, any sort of comments both positive and negative do help them improve which in the long run can help you feel better there.

Just a thought....

[Disneyadore]

But asking for "proof" would have the opposite effect. If someone was faking or exagerating something they would have no problem faking a Dr's note. It would have no effect at all on them, as you say these people are "creative".

If I were required to have a Dr's note to vacation at Disney. I would look at the cost of a Dr's visit, taking the time off work, and of course bothering my Specialist with "just a vacation" when we're still actively twekaing my medications and therapy. And after adding all that up I simply wouldn't go. Nevermind all the people that only find out they need accommodation after they started their trip.

And what about international guests, are the people going to be trained medical professionals and also linguists, so that they can accomodate the guests whose Dr's write only in French or Korean?

But you would still have untrained CM's like in the post you referenced, and plenty of fakers. Such a policy would only hurt those with legitimate needs.


Disney Resort Paris ask for a letter from your Dr.

No letter no "Carte Bleu "
and I think that's a good solution.

As for myself I have an in English written letter from my oncologist for any emergency if I'm in the States.

I don't know if I need a GAC. First I will try to manage without but if necessary I will get one.
Its almost impossible that a doctor is not capable to write a letter in English.
Its the universal language of the whole worlds and those people made it true university so if they cant write a letter in English how can they got a diploma at any school?

The freedom of this system in the US is gone past the lines of what is appropriately.
It's free for any one who likes to abuse the system. People do abuse and cheat and those who really need this pay the bill for them.
O and yes you may call me a dirty foreigner ore Euro thrash :lmao::lmao::lmao:

[ireland_nicole]

I think one of the issues between DLP and WDW is due to the difference in disability law. Here in the US there are very specific laws in place under the ADA. Disney's policies relating to the GAC are in keeping with those laws. And pp's are right. If someone would lie about a disability, there's nothing to keep them from forging a Dr.s note. Because the laws in European countries differ, so do expectations.

[goofieslonglostsis]

Disney Resort Paris ask for a letter from your Dr.

No letter no "Carte Bleu "
and I think that's a good solution.

As for myself I have an in English written letter from my oncologist for any emergency if I'm in the States.

I don't know if I need a GAC. First I will try to manage without but if necessary I will get one.
Its almost impossible that a doctor is not capable to write a letter in English.
Its the universal language of the whole worlds and those people made it true university so if they cant write a letter in English how can they got a diploma at any school?


A docs note is one of the options, it's not the only option nor is it set in stone. For instance, another option is to have a European disability parking card at hand.

Also, don't judge a book on it's cover is something most of us almost scream out on these board. ;) Can't write is a bit of making a mountain out of a mole hill, but there is more than simply having the knowledge to write and mechanical skills. A doc has a lot more to do than spend time on writing all kinds of notes. Heck, my GP spends hours a year writing notes for me. You do not want to know all of the things in life that require a note overhere. :rolleyes: That's just one (1) patient. If I remember correctly, a GP tends to have a ratio of 1 GP per 5.000 patients. That are a lot of notes to be written. Not only do I think a doc can spend their time a lot more valuble, but to be honest? I'm a bit ticked off if I need to bring a docs note whenever I want to venture out and get myself not preverential treatment, but equal treatment and acces. It will basically mean being at a docs mercy to be able to do every day types of recreation. Things that so called AB's can do without even asking their parent, wife or husband for a permission slip. ;)


About weight and sitting on our bums; it tends not to be a very loved opinion, but I don't agree with the 'I can not walk, therefor I can not loose any weight'. Lossing weight is math, in the end. If you burn more than you consume; you loose. Sitting on our bums makes us burn a lot less. It took me quite some time to get to that :idea: The burning is less, therefor the consumption can never be the same as somebody that's not even exercising, but simply walking around. It takes longer, as you can not increase the burning (as much) but for me it is not a fact set in stone that it can simply not be done, period. That being said, I want to make it clear that I do not (wish to) blame anyone or look down or whatever. Only stating my opinion and experience. It doesn't have to be a dark black whole that will be for ever unreachable just because of the fact you happen to sit down. For those trying or willing to try; keep that in mind! Don't expect results as quickly as you could get when walking around, but also don't hold yourself to a standard that you will fail only because you are sitting down.

[Disneyadore]

A doc has a lot more to do than spend time on writing all kinds of notes. Heck, my GP spends hours a year writing notes for me. You do not want to know all of the things in life that require a note overhere. :rolleyes: That's just one (1) patient. If I remember correctly, a GP tends to have a ratio of 1 GP per 5.000 patients. That are a lot of notes to be written. Not only do I think a doc can spend their time a lot more valuble, but to be honest?[ I'm a bit ticked off if I need to bring a docs note whenever I want to venture out and get myself not preverential treatment, but equal treatment and acces. It will basically mean being at a docs mercy to be able to do every day types of recreation. Things that so called AB's can do without even asking their parent, wife or husband for a permission slip. ;)



Well I see the culture difference between us and I don't mean any disrespect in that. :hug:

But...... the school my children attend asks for proof if they are absent either from our doc in case of sickness ore for a funeral ore marriage ore what so ever. On the other hand the control is very strict and if a child is not present at school at nine o clock you get a call.

So a note is in our view a normal daily thing.

And as for the GP is being to busy well that's his job. He is there for all the patients needs and he has a serving job which we payed for.
We don't put them on a pedestal any more. I'm a paying costumer.
Again cultural difference :lmao:

As for being ticked of for bringing a note. Well in my humble opinion it would be far more comforting if people knew that those who get a GAC ore any other perk are really those who deserve them.

Again you hardly see people in DLRP with a "Carte Bleu" thanks to the very strict policy they have.
Those who have them do need them and deserve them.

As I see it the so called freedom of the ADA law put the ones who need this law in the corner of cheaters in the eyes of Jonh Public just because of the freedom. EVERYONE is entitled to use it whiteout questions asked if your need ore not.

Again no disrespect but cultural difference and looking from another angel at this "problem".

[goofieslonglostsis]

Well I see the culture difference between us and I don't mean any disrespect in that. :hug:

No disrespect felt, just expressing my opinion. As stated, I do feel it's very patronising to need a note to be able to do something that any other so called 'AB' can do without a note.

But...... the school my children attend asks for proof if they are absent either from our doc in case of sickness ore for a funeral ore marriage ore what so ever. On the other hand the control is very strict and if a child is not present at school at nine o clock you get a call.

I live in a small community, so no notes needed. Social controle is high enough for someone to spill the beans if a kid isn't really sick. :laughing: Besides that point; this comes from a basis of equality. So called 'AB' or not; same treatment when skipping any classes.

So a note is in our view a normal daily thing.

For me it also it, but I do think it should be restricted to things that would mean getting an 'extra' or 'perk'. For instance, I'm fine with handing in all of my papers (and believe me, I do a lot), to get my disability pay, to get a co-payment to get upto an income on social pay level, to get my disability parking placard, to get my wheelchair, to get my bag of money to sort out my medical staff, well you get the picture.

And as for the GP is being to busy well that's his job. He is there for all the patients needs and he has a serving job which we payed for.
We don't put them on a pedestal any more. I'm a paying costumer.
Again cultural difference :lmao:

No pedestal here either. However, I do think there is a HUGE cultural difference when talking about a GP. Our country is one of the very few in our western economy where a GP has such a heavy case load. Where a GP is an extra option in most countries (which you can bypass at will and or whim) for our system it's the basis of which all is built. A GP also has a bigger function than just fixing up a medical problem when it occurs. They keep an eye out on all of their patients for any psychosocial problems, relational problems, problems with raising kids, everything and anything that can go wrong or become difficult in a persons life. For instance; my GP will randomly visit patients of his practice whenever they get older, lonely or are at risk for medical problems. They didn't call to ask for this, he initiates.

Totally besides that anyhow, I do think it is time very poorly spend when my GP spends another hour on writing notes for me (read; his assistant writing it, him reading it and signing) when he could spend it doing true medical and psychosocial stuff.

As for being ticked of for bringing a note. Well in my humble opinion it would be far more comforting if people knew that those who get a GAC ore any other perk are really those who deserve them.

To be honest? Scr*w those people! I'm not the most loved person when discussing some parts of the ADA or stuff that can be arranged in the US in regards to disabilities, as I do think some lack boundaries. But because of opinions of others doing something or not? Humbug! Really, everything I do or don't do gets checked by the appropriate gouvernment. I get no so called 'perk' what so ever without somebody behind a desk having to approve it. And guess what? There are more than enough people out there that feel they've been done wrong by because of the fact that I do get to use certain systems we've put in place for those with a disability. People will feel done wrong as soon as somebody else gets something different to provide equality, never mind how one got to the point of getting that treatment.

Again you hardly see people in DLRP with a "Carte Bleu" thanks to the very strict policy they have.
Those who have them do need them and deserve them.

I'm probably getting myself in too much trouble, but oh well. I'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with the European mentality of things. Those of us with a disability are used to every day life with a lower standard of accessibility than our friends in the US are. This will translate in more people somehow finding their way to do DLRP without a Carte Blue and/or simply so used to not perfect accessibility they're happy enough with the basic state at DLRP. Heck, if people are even aware it exists. ;)

There's also a very different point of view as to what a disability is, what is own responsibility and what is a need that needs to be addressed by a 'third party'. For me, it's most noticable when discussing alternate lines/waiting areas. It is very uncommon for me to run into any parent with a child with an autistic disorder that will state they require an alternate waiting area. Most will believe that their child will have to deal with that in daily life, so also when in line for a ride. A very different thing than what I'm reading on the DIS for the US. Or let's keep it a lot closer to home; myself. My disorder has a nasty side-effect that even a small unintentional bumping into me has a high risk of me ending up at an ER. I hardly ever hear anybody with this disorder about requiring alternate waiting area because of this, incl. myself. It's my daily life, as soon as I get out of the house there is the risk. I'm aware, I'm responsible for watching out for my safety. Yet, some of my US collegues at international boards have spoken up about feeling they do require alternate waiting areas because of this. I'm not saying one is 'better' than the other or not, but there also is a huge cultural difference playing a role in this subject.

As I see it the so called freedom of the ADA law put the ones who need this law in the corner of cheaters in the eyes of Jonh Public just because of the freedom. EVERYONE is entitled to use it whiteout questions asked if your need ore not.

Again no disrespect but cultural difference and looking from another angel at this "problem".

Again; no disrespect felt. I can agree with you that the ADA has loopholes, and I'm not a great fan of that either. However, I do not see where needing notes for getting equal treatment is something to advocate. For me the difference lies between equality (which might come in a different form) and getting something extra out of it.

[Disneyadore]

No disrespect felt, just expressing my opinion. As stated, I do feel it's very patronising to need a note to be able to do something that any other so called 'AB' can do without a note.



I live in a small community, so no notes needed. Social controle is high enough for someone to spill the beans if a kid isn't really sick. :laughing: Besides that point; this comes from a basis of equality. So called 'AB' or not; same treatment when skipping any classes.



For me it also it, but I do think it should be restricted to things that would mean getting an 'extra' or 'perk'. For instance, I'm fine with handing in all of my papers (and believe me, I do a lot), to get my disability pay, to get a co-payment to get upto an income on social pay level, to get my disability parking placard, to get my wheelchair, to get my bag of money to sort out my medical staff, well you get the picture.



No pedestal here either. However, I do think there is a HUGE cultural difference when talking about a GP. Our country is one of the very few in our western economy where a GP has such a heavy case load. Where a GP is an extra option in most countries (which you can bypass at will and or whim) for our system it's the basis of which all is built. A GP also has a bigger function than just fixing up a medical problem when it occurs. They keep an eye out on all of their patients for any psychosocial problems, relational problems, problems with raising kids, everything and anything that can go wrong or become difficult in a persons life. For instance; my GP will randomly visit patients of his practice whenever they get older, lonely or are at risk for medical problems. They didn't call to ask for this, he initiates.

Totally besides that anyhow, I do think it is time very poorly spend when my GP spends another hour on writing notes for me (read; his assistant writing it, him reading it and signing) when he could spend it doing true medical and psychosocial stuff.



To be honest? Scr*w those people! I'm not the most loved person when discussing some parts of the ADA or stuff that can be arranged in the US in regards to disabilities, as I do think some lack boundaries. But because of opinions of others doing something or not? Humbug! Really, everything I do or don't do gets checked by the appropriate gouvernment. I get no so called 'perk' what so ever without somebody behind a desk having to approve it. And guess what? There are more than enough people out there that feel they've been done wrong by because of the fact that I do get to use certain systems we've put in place for those with a disability. People will feel done wrong as soon as somebody else gets something different to provide equality, never mind how one got to the point of getting that treatment.



I'm probably getting myself in too much trouble, but oh well. I'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with the European mentality of things. Those of us with a disability are used to every day life with a lower standard of accessibility than our friends in the US are. This will translate in more people somehow finding their way to do DLRP without a Carte Blue and/or simply so used to not perfect accessibility they're happy enough with the basic state at DLRP. Heck, if people are even aware it exists. ;)

There's also a very different point of view as to what a disability is, what is own responsibility and what is a need that needs to be addressed by a 'third party'. For me, it's most noticable when discussing alternate lines/waiting areas. It is very uncommon for me to run into any parent with a child with an autistic disorder that will state they require an alternate waiting area. Most will believe that their child will have to deal with that in daily life, so also when in line for a ride. A very different thing than what I'm reading on the DIS for the US. Or let's keep it a lot closer to home; myself. My disorder has a nasty side-effect that even a small unintentional bumping into me has a high risk of me ending up at an ER. I hardly ever hear anybody with this disorder about requiring alternate waiting area because of this, incl. myself. It's my daily life, as soon as I get out of the house there is the risk. I'm aware, I'm responsible for watching out for my safety. Yet, some of my US collegues at international boards have spoken up about feeling they do require alternate waiting areas because of this. I'm not saying one is 'better' than the other or not, but there also is a huge cultural difference playing a role in this subject.



Again; no disrespect felt. I can agree with you that the ADA has loopholes, and I'm not a great fan of that either. However, I do not see where needing notes for getting equal treatment is something to advocate. For me the difference lies between equality (which might come in a different form) and getting something extra out of it.

Well we agree on the most important things and that is good no matter how far we live apart.
Even oceans can't divide equal minds. :thumbsup2

[goofieslonglostsis]

True. Now if we (read; our gouvernment) would only learn from each other strengths. Ah well, guess I'ld better be hoping for ever being able to sleep in Cindy's castle, that's a better chance. ;)

[Disneyadore]

True. Now if we (read; our gouvernment) would only learn from each other strengths. Ah well, guess I'ld better be hoping for ever being able to sleep in Cindy's castle, that's a better chance. ;)

Oh yes that would be wonderful and I will help you in hoping all our wishes will come a reality one fine and bright day.

[Windjammermay]

goofieslonglostsis, I can agree with much of what you are saying. My disability is physical, I use an electric chair, catheter, oxygen, ect.

The ADA does not help with a lot of accessible situations. Like I can not go to many of the stores, resturants, monuments and bathrooms or the court house, many of the government buildings in Plymouth, Ma, because there are steps or the doors are too narrow. They have hp bathrooms stalls but the entrance to the bathroom is too narrow, you can't get in. Many of the HP parking is used by people with NO plate or plaquet and are not ticketed or called on it. The ADA is no good for people with physical disabilities. Para transits is ok but public buses lifts don't work 9 times out of 10. So the only way to get around is by your chair and a heck of an attidute. I can not afford a wheel chair van with what the government gives. Even the ambulance service won't pick me up becuase of the chair. I road my chair to the hospital a 5.3 mile ride while haveing a heart attack because ambulance refused transport. A good thing is that the cops can not arrest me because they can not transport me,lol.

There are different types of disabilities. The government can not catogorise use becuase of the long list of different disabities. Even on some of the crip and gimp boards there are feelings of seperation of disabilities.

I put up with motorists that don't see me, been hit 3 times. AB's that are nasty and just plane mean. I have had kids drive by and throw eggs at me and beer bottles, yell all kinds of very very bad things at me. AB's that will step in front of me in a long line. I could go on.

BUT at Disney, it is all Magical, it is the only place in the world that is so awesome of a place to be if you are a crip. It is kind of like a touch of heaven. ON the crip boards everyone want to go just to feel like a person for even just a day and it is ok to be in a broken down sick body that you don't even want. But for just one Magical moment.....:tinker: you can fly.....

[jewelergirl]

Just a quick bit of input- FAT does not necessarily = lazy. There are many reasons for becoming overweight and you may never know a persons story. My best freind was totally normal weight-=got a connective tissue disease and gained about 60 lbs in 2 months, mor ein the next 6 months. Not her fault, and cannot change it- she's lucky to still be here at all. People who are on prednisone gain wirght dramatically, often to save their lives. Others have other issues. I , myself am no skinny Minny, but I pull my own "weight" . This lady was obviously nasty and rude, which is independant of her weight issue- you don't need to reciprocate her vile attitude here.

This is a friendly place- check the negativity please.