A different perspective on D23

[LudwigVB]

After completely agreeing with Pete that D23 was not what we had hoped for, I am interested in the opinions of others regarding what D23 is. Having grown up in central Florida, the theme parks were my childhood playground. I took them for granted and began to enjoy them much, much more as I grew older.

For me, my passion for the Disney Company grew largely from two other products - The Disney Channel and Disney News/Magazine. As a child of the 80s, my parents were alarmed by television content of the time and only allowed my siblings and I to watch TDC. And, since my father worked for the state government, we had a free membership to the Magic Kingdom Club and received Disney News.

Therefore, my upbringing formed me into a fan of Disney history, animation, films, and nostalgia (a very real and tangible product of the Disney Company, part of Walt's genius). So, after calming down from my initial disappointment over the $75 price for what is perceived to be very little, I spent yesterday pouring over everything on the D23 website and watching Wednesday's The View segments with Iger and Lasseter. I only wanted to see what was offered, and I ended up reading every article on the site! Needless to say, I was hooked! It seems that after years of frustration that Disney was prostituting its heritage for the quick buck with its current incarnation of The Disney Channel and the last few advertisement-laden issues of Disney Magazine before shutting it down, there are a few people in the Company that "get it" and at least want to offer "it" again.

While I want everything the podcast crew wants in a customer-reward program (especially as a passholder), I am at least grateful for the content that has been given, keeping in mind that all of that content is free!

[tmli]

I have avoided responding to all threads on this subject because I think many are over the top!!

We joined, and we are the dumb canadians that even paid an extra $50 for shipping on top of the membership fee! I didn't have really high expectations for what the whole thing would be, therefore probably don't feel as disappointed as some. Do I wish it was a loyalty progran, sure I do. Would I have done things differently if I was in charge -- possibly.

What I am pretty sure about is that Disney didn't set out to anger and annoy its loyal fans. I think they tried, missed the mark a little perhaps, but at least they are thinking of us.

Much of the outrage and venom I have seen spewed here over the last couple days is unbelieveable to me. I truly agree with much of what Pete said in his thoughts on the subject.

If you don't want to join don't, however I assure you those of us who did join are not stupid morons for doing so!!

[Commando2319]

Much of the outrage and venom I have seen spewed here over the last couple days is unbelieveable to me. I truly agree with much of what Pete said in his thoughts on the subject.

I think most of the outrage from people is not at the program itself. But the completely botched roll out.

The marketing campaign built up hype without giving any clues as to what it was. So people 1. got excited and 2. let their imagination run wild on what is was. Naturally, we all thought up much better ideas that what is actually turned out to be.

And the counter that went to negative numbers without telling you anything. And the lack of emails sent just made people angry.

If they had instead, just turned on the D23 site one day and started selling it. Most people would react with a "oh, what's this." or "eh" reaction. Few people would be angry.

Disney cause this reaction through their horrible marketing.

[WaltD4Me]

After giving it alot of thought, I find I agree with alot of what Ludwig said.

I think 3 years ago when D23 was concieved it was never intended to be a loyalty program....and yes, I most definitely agree that Disney should have a loyalty program for Disney travelers and while I most DEFINITELY agree 110% with everything Pete said on the podcast about how Disney needs a loyalty plan and it's shameful that they don't....D23 was never supposed to be that.

Not the best analogy by any means, but it reminds me a little, on a much smaller scale, of a book I bought once for a vacation. I like light beach book reading for vacations, something frivilous and fun, I somehow, I bought a book that was SO not that. I said it was a horrible book, but went back and read it again like 2 years later and decided it wasn't horrible, it was a good book, it just wasn't what I wanting or or expecting at the time and my disappointment colored my perception of the book.

If I seperate D23 from thinking of it as a loyalty program, with discounts and points, I'm still not thrilled with it, but am not as disappointed either. I think Disney REALLY botched the roll out of D23.
The "mystery" around what D23 was going to be was a BIG mistake. Allowing fans to speculate for months about what it was only encouraged the loyalty program idea and made it much worse when we found it that wasn't what it is at all. I also think the $75 membership fee is very out of touch. 3 years ago I suspect there would have been much less outrage, but now? Disney should have taken a look at the economy and made adjustments.

I think the CONCEPT of D23 is great. I am a park fan AND a Disney history fan. Like John, I would gladly hand over $75, probably more, to get into that Disney warehouse of treasures, I would travel to just about anywhere Disney might build a really good Disney museum and I'm talking Disney Smithsonean here and I even wondering if there is any possible way I could manage to go the Expo, but I also think D23 could and should offer so much more. Maybe it will, but in 3 years of planning it should have come out offering more.

I wonder how people would feel about D23 if there was already a decent loyalty program in place. I think there still would have been anger at the $75 membership fee, but no where NEAR to the degree that there is now.

Disney definitely botched this, but I have to stick up for Marty Sklar a little bit here and say that in the beginning, the idea and concept was a good one and may have done well or at least better, if we hadn't been allowed to imagine that it was going to be completely something else. The silver lining may be though that Disney may just HEAR it's fans now and actually come out with a loyalty program...not as part of D23, but seperate from it...wouldn't that be nice? And about darn time!

[WebmasterJohn]

If you don't want to join don't, however I assure you those of us who did join are not stupid morons for doing so!!

I certainly don't feel that anyone who joins is stupid and I'm sorry if that's what you got from the back-and-forth on this subject or the podcast.

There will be people who will think this great and who will sign-up for it - that is awesome. There are some who will sign-up out of curiosity in the hopes it will improve - again, good for them.

As far as those not signing up for it I think that is just a personal choice and in no way intended to make those who do sign-up for it feel less intelligent.

I realize the debates got heated but keep in mind it is all opinion and at the end of the day it's your own opinion that matters because it's your life and your money.

My interpretation is that people who do not like the program were hoping for something else. I think Disney created hype that they couldn't deliver on and that resulted in great discussion. And I do mean great - it was lively, it was intelligent and it allowed people a chance to discuss their points of view.

Now I have to go set-up the the J65 website............(J=John, 65=year I was born...let the rumors begin!!)

[wildeoscar]

hm, I guess I am missing it... would anyone who has joined d23 chime in on the community? is there a posting board for fans to connect?

[LudwigVB]

Now I have to go set-up the the J65 website............(J=John, 65=year I was born...let the rumors begin!!)

Coming from the co-owner of a company that DOES get its clientele and hits homeruns every opportunity it has to thank its customers, I do not need to wait to say

I AM J65!

[jeanigor]

Now I have to go set-up the the J65 website............(J=John, 65=year I was born...let the rumors begin!!)

I AM J65!

Binjo!

[bellaDisneydncr]

I have avoided responding to all threads on this subject because I think many are over the top!!

What I am pretty sure about is that Disney didn't set out to anger and annoy its loyal fans. I think they tried, missed the mark a little perhaps, but at least they are thinking of us.

Much of the outrage and venom I have seen spewed here over the last couple days is unbelieveable to me.


I think the CONCEPT of D23 is great. I am a park fan AND a Disney history fan. Like John, I would gladly hand over $75, probably more, to get into that Disney warehouse of treasures, I would travel to just about anywhere Disney might build a really good Disney museum and I'm talking Disney Smithsonean here and I even wondering if there is any possible way I could manage to go the Expo, but I also think D23 could and should offer so much more. Maybe it will, but in 3 years of planning it should have come out offering more.


I am so glad to finally see this different opinion on here. I - like tmli - avoided the podcast page for a couple days because I got so upset and annoyed at the negativity on here. I joined the first day. I was very excited about this and couldn't wait to join. Yes- I believe $75 is a lot. But I had planned on buying all the magazines which are $15 a piece (x4) that makes $60. Why not pay a little more and get some extras.

And like WaltD4Me- I think that they needed to come out with more. Now none of us know whether or not they will come out with more- so I'm going to wait and see. I'm a D23 Charter Member and I'm proud of it!

If you don't want to join don't, however I assure you those of us who did join are not stupid morons for doing so!! :thumbsup2

I do agree, however, with what Pete said about overlooking the people who go back time after time to the parks. We need more recognition.

[aspen37]

I think most of the outrage from people is not at the program itself. But the completely botched roll out.

The marketing campaign built up hype without giving any clues as to what it was. So people 1. got excited and 2. let their imagination run wild on what is was. Naturally, we all thought up much better ideas that what is actually turned out to be.

And the counter that went to negative numbers without telling you anything. And the lack of emails sent just made people angry.

If they had instead, just turned on the D23 site one day and started selling it. Most people would react with a "oh, what's this." or "eh" reaction. Few people would be angry.

Disney cause this reaction through their horrible marketing.

Well said!:thumbsup2

[doconeill]

I agree that D23 is not a "loyalty program". It would be great if it was, but its not.

Iger says it's a way for the hard core fans to stay connected to Disney behind the scenes. Sure, there are ways to get that information through other channels.

But in reality, right now, it is a FAN CLUB. And its not much different than any other fan club where you pay a membership fee. In this case, the fee is higher than most (but not by much), and the "magazine" (which may be a disservice to call it that from reports) is much higher quality than a photocopied newsletter that most put out. But all the earmarks of a fan club are there - a membership fee, for which you receive a quarterly publication, a membership card, a "gift", and the rights to spend more money on semi-exclusive merch. And occasional special features like a fan gathering (expo), etc.

That's what it is at the moment at least.

And as I've said in other threads, I've signed up. But I'm placing a bet. The bet is that Disney WILL come through at some level. If I'm wrong, I lost $75 and will not renew. If I'm right - well, I'm still out $75, but I'll feel better about it.

[GIR-Prototype]

I'm glad it's NOT a loyalty program.

Let me explain why.

The level of Disney fan that you are is independent of how many times a year you go to a Disney property. Granted that the parks are an amazing experience, they are not all that Disney offers.

You have people who get to go once a year, people who haven't been since they were small children (and I'm one of those, a lucky one who got to go to WDW last year, and will go again this year), and people who dream of getting to go to a Disney park just ONCE in their lifetime.

Then you also have people whose blood should be DISboard green, and who are going to go any way they can, every chance they can get..

A loyalty program based on visits is only going to benefit a very small portion of overall park attendees. And if you base it on how much you spend on and/or at Disney, then you skew the system a different way, in the sense that the program would only be of benefit to people who either have money to burn, or a willingness to credit card themselves into massive debt. Those are people who are going to spend money anyway, not caring about getting something back.

And you're still not offering much benefit to any great portion of the millions upon millions of people who pass through Disney park gates around the world.

Which leads to the most important point; all that considered, why should Disney realistically offer a loyalty program...what is it going to do for them in return if it only benefits a small portion of their park attendees?

I think D23 is exactly what it needs to be.:thumbsup2

[DisneyKevin]

A loyalty program based on visits is only going to benefit a very small portion of overall park attendees.


This is the very definition of a loyalty program.

If you fly a certain airline repeatedly, they reward you with a free flight.

If you buy six ice cream comes at Baskin Robbins, they give you your seventh one for free.

If you gamble in Las Vegas and return to the same casino, you earn loyalty points for free nights, free shows and free meals.

If you shop at Casual Male Big and Tall and spend $250, they send you a gift card for $10.

If you buy vitamins at Vitamin World, once you reach a certain amount spent, you pay the lower discount price.

It's a way of showing appreciation to your most loyal (or highest affinity) group.

[doconeill]

This is the very definition of a loyalty program.

If you fly a certain airline repeatedly, they reward you with a free flight.

If you buy six ice cream comes at Baskin Robbins, they give you your seventh one for free.

If you gamble in Las Vegas and return to the same casino, you earn loyalty points for free nights, free shows and free meals.

If you shop at Casual Male Big and Tall and spend $250, they send you a gift card for $10.

If you buy vitamins at Vitamin World, once you reach a certain amount spent, you pay the lower discount price.

It's a way of showing appreciation to your most loyal (or highest affinity) group.

But my argument is this is NOT a loyalty program nor is it meant to be - it is a FAN program (i.e. Fan Club). I can be a hard-core fan but NOT be able to attend each and every event that goes on. I'm lucky to get two trips a year (mainly because we purchased DVC), but after June it will be over a year before the next trip. Trust me, I'd LOVE to be able go down just any time. But I'm not one of those people who can afford that.

Should I not be allowed to take part then?

I think a loyalty program would be great, whether it benefits me or not. This ain't it, so I think that complaining that it is a horrible loyalty program is like complaining that a Hummer isn't a green car.

[cchev]

Disney has done a great job with giving people breaks in this economy....ex paying for 4 nights and getting 7 nights. They give money back for dining. They upped their contribution to the military. They offer a reasonable seasonal pass. Dining has become a lot more affordable with the dining plan. Not to mention magical express.

This is obviously not a "loyalty" program so don't look it as such. They have done a lot to help people in this economy while continuing their charity works, including Give Kids the World.

I don't understand what I see as almost a hate against Disney for this. People have been saying "I'm glad I'm not going this year" and even Kevin I believe you said something disparaging about the people who you see wearing the D23 shirts. I don't mind if people don't like it but Disney is good in helping people afford vacations. Just because one program they're doing doesn't have a goal of saving you money doesn't change that.

[DisneyKevin]

Should I not be allowed to take part then?


I wasnt suggesting that D23 is a loyalty program. I was explaining that loyalty programs are usually for the people that have loyalty to a certain product / service etc.

You are welcome to take part in any loyalty program in which you wish to participate or from which you you feel you would derive benefit.

But this begs the question....should there not be a frequent flier program because some folks wont / cant fly?

[cchev]

I wasnt suggesting that D23 is a loyalty program. I was explaining that loyalty programs are usually for the people that have loyalty to a certain product / service etc.

You are welcome to take part in any loyalty program in which you wish to participate or from which you you feel you would derive benefit.

But this begs the question....should there not be a frequent flier program because some folks wont / cant fly?

It's a different business model though. I still argue that the seasonal pass IS a loyalty program itself. The more you go the more you save...both you AND Disney benefit. This is similar to the free coffee program but in reverse...
And trust me if airlines had a loyalty program where I could fly for as many times a year if I want for the cost of 2 flights I would jump at that MUCH quicker than their current programs....but they don't offer it.

[doconeill]

But this begs the question....should there not be a frequent flier program because some folks wont / cant fly?

I DID say that a loyalty program would be great, whether I could participate or not. But not solely catering to one class of people is great too.

I just feel that D23 got more heat than it deserved because it wasn't want people thought they were getting. Perhaps Disney built up far too much expectation with the campaign (and then blew the unveiling big time...I never got an email). And sure, they could do more. But D23 is basically what they said it is.

[DisneyKevin]

Disney has done a great job with giving people breaks in this economy....ex paying for 4 nights and getting 7 nights. They give money back for dining. They upped their contribution to the military. They offer a reasonable seasonal pass. Dining has become a lot more affordable with the dining plan.

This is obviously not a "loyalty" program so don't look it as such. They have done a lot to help people in this economy while continuing their charity works, including Give Kids the World.

I don't understand what I see as almost a hate against Disney for this. People have been saying "I'm glad I'm not going this year" and ever Kevin I believe you said something disparaging about the people who you see wearing the D23 shirts. I don't mind if people don't like it but Disney is good in helping people afford vacations. Just because one program they're doing doesn't have a goal of saving you money doesn't change that.

Disney is running the promotions you list because they are hurting...not out of the goodness of their hearts.

The buy 4 get 3 free promo is not some humanitarian effort. It's a way to fill empty hotels.

As for giving money back by offering the dining plan....well....the dining plan keeps people on Disney property and not spending money elsewhere, so again, I'm sorry but I dont view it the same way you do.

As for the military and GKTW.....thats awesome. Disney is a very charitable organization, but thats beside the point and not germain to this discussion at all.

You do not need to campaign for me to love Disney. I moved 1200 miles to be closer to Disney. My job revolves around Disney. I live 15 miles away from Disney. I'm an annual passholder. We own DVC. Trust me....I love Disney.

It's THIS particular "fan club" that I think is an enormous and disappointing failure.

And as for Disney being good at helping people afford vacations....that is their job. They sell vacations They are one of the top vacation destinations in the world. They NEED to help people take vacations or this limb of the business withers.

[wildeoscar]

a couple things i have missed, or in some cases chose to not understand...

What is the debate about a loyalty program, and where is that coming from? I realize that Disney doesn't have one, and probably should... but D23 seems more like a marketing gimmik for exclusive goods. The website in and of itself seems to be completely accessible with or with out a membership (cept for the shopping). As with all things, if you don't think it is worth it, don;t buy it. I don't think it is worth it. But I don't think it is evil. I also don't think it will get better, I remember an entertainment card that disney put out with a magazine, but you got travel discounts with it. that was kinda worth it. then they discontinued it with no fan fare, just never let any one renew.

does there really need to be a heated debate on this?

[cchev]

Disney is running the promotions you list because they are hurting...not out of the goodness of their hearts.

The buy 4 get 3 free promo is not some humanitarian effort. It's a way to fill empty hotels.

As for giving money back by offering the dining plan....well....the dining plan keeps people on Disney property and not spending money elsewhere, so again, I'm sorry but I dont view it the same way you do.

As for the military and GKTW.....thats awesome. Disney is a very charitable organization, but thats beside the point and not germain to this discussion at all.

You do not need to campaign for me to love Disney. I moved 1200 miles to be closer to Disney. My job revolves around Disney. I live 15 miles away from Disney. I'm an annual passholder. We own DVC. Trust me....I love Disney.

It's THIS particular "fan club" that I think is an enormous and disappointing failure.

And as for Disney being good at helping people afford vacations....that is their job. They sell vacations They are one of the top vacation destinations in the world. They NEED to help people take vacations or this limb of the business withers.

I don't think you're going to find too many companies that make economic decisions on a "humanitarian effort". I need not tell you that almost EVERY industry makes decisions on an economic basis (only one that I can think of that isn't off the top of my head is academic medicine, but I'm biased :thumbsup2 ). But just because they are benefitting doesn't mean it isn't good for the consumers. I guarantee that all of those coffee and airline loyalty clubs are good for their business and that is why they do it isn't just to be nice.

[Matt@WDWR]

Like Kevin said, you don't have to give me a loyalty program to prove my love of Disney. However there is a business model that many Disney execs are missing out.

I live near Atlanta. It's about a 6 hour drive to WDW. It's about a 6 hour drive to many interesting places as well. Once Disney stopped giving weekend discounts, I cut my WDW visits from about 16 a year to about 6 a year. I used to go 2 "9 day vacations" a year and then supplemented it with 3-4 day weekends at F&W, Flower and Garden, marathons, parties, etc.

Once I stopped getting discounts on weekends, I just didn't find those superflous weekend visits worth it. I decided to go to Charleston, Colonial Williamsburgh, St. George Island, Tybee Island, etc.


Disney does not seem to grasp loss of income based on their selfish changes. When D23 was announced or hinted too, I thought Disney had finally understood what they had done. Sadly, I was naive. I just don't think Disney has figured out what their selfishness has done to their bottomline.

You can only count on "new guests" for so much of a yearly visit. The regulars have been ignored for a long time. I still don't think Disney marketers have figured out that their greed has pushed a MAJOR portion of their guests away.

For example... in 2007, I was at WDW for 40 days. in 2009, I am booked for only 19. If any other visitors are like me, think about the loss of income. This is not even considering my pin addictiion. hahaha

[DisneyKevin]

I guarantee that all of those coffee and airline loyalty clubs are good for their business and that is why they do it isn't just to be nice.

You have stated my point exactly.

The difference is that other companies reward loyalty even during the best of times, not only when times are rough.

And times are rough...even at Disney. The local news today ran a rather long story about the long term Disney employees being laid off. These arent the folks being offered buy-outs. These are the folks that are getting told on Friday that they wont be needed Monday. One man had been with Disney 22 years.

[cchev]

a couple things i have missed, or in some cases chose to not understand...

What is the debate about a loyalty program, and where is that coming from? I realize that Disney doesn't have one, and probably should... but D23 seems more like a marketing gimmik for exclusive goods. The website in and of itself seems to be completely accessible with or with out a membership (cept for the shopping). As with all things, if you don't think it is worth it, don;t buy it. I don't think it is worth it. But I don't think it is evil. I also don't think it will get better, I remember an entertainment card that disney put out with a magazine, but you got travel discounts with it. that was kinda worth it. then they discontinued it with no fan fare, just never let any one renew.

does there really need to be a heated debate on this?

I completely agree with you....the only reason I am caring to try to defend D23 is mainly because it seems as if EVERYONE has a ton of malice against it that I don't think is necessarily due...is it great, no...but its not horrible either. Disney does a great job in so many other ways, just because this one club isn't all about consumer savings does not mean we all get angry. I can think of other things that I would like Disney to change/change back but this isn't a bad thing....it might not be what people wanted, but its not bad...the website has some good stuff and its free so even if you don't pay money you benefit.

[cchev]

You have stated my point exactly.

The difference is that other companies reward loyalty even during the best of times, not only when times are rough.

And times are rough...even at Disney. The local news today ran a rather long story about the long term Disney employees being laid off. These arent the folks being offered buy-outs. These are the folks that are getting told on Friday that they wont be needed Monday. One man had been with Disney 22 years.

Along with many other many corporations also laying people off...Disney isn't unique in this...just look at Radio and automotives.

And I really did think that the prospective approach of a reasonable season pas surpasses the retrospective loyalty program like the coffee...and the season passes are available all the time, even when times are good for Disney. (this seems to be mainly where we differ in our views...I see the season pass as a loyalty thing in itself since it has the same effect and doesn't really work with many other models....and I know you don't think this counts lol)

[DisneyKevin]

Disney does a great job in so many other ways, just because this one club isn't all about consumer savings does not mean we all get angry.

Not angry....I just disagree with you.

[Matt@WDWR]

CCHEV, I think you are a nice person. Maybe you just haven't grown as cynical as some of us. I have waited, and waited for Disney to even pretend to care about its regular guests. They were almost MOCKING the Disney loyalists who attended Mousefest and The Dis's Toy Story Mania party. When you add to that Disney creating a glorified Marketing strategy instead of a loyalty program(that would increase revenue even more I contend), maybe you can see how us Disney lovers are upset.

It's one thing if we all think Disney doesn't give a "darn". It's another for Disney to basically admit they don't give a darn.

[redrosesix]

I think most of the outrage from people is not at the program itself. But the completely botched roll out.

The marketing campaign built up hype without giving any clues as to what it was. So people 1. got excited and 2. let their imagination run wild on what is was. Naturally, we all thought up much better ideas that what is actually turned out to be.

And the counter that went to negative numbers without telling you anything. And the lack of emails sent just made people angry.

If they had instead, just turned on the D23 site one day and started selling it. Most people would react with a "oh, what's this." or "eh" reaction. Few people would be angry.

Disney cause this reaction through their horrible marketing.

I have to agree with you to a point. But if it really took them 3 years to develop the idea, they could have done so much better -- it's not very often that so many fans are completely underwhelmed by something new at Disney. If the fans thought up better ideas than what it actually turned out to be, then they screwed up.

It's not as if Disney doesn't have experience in bringing out new products to please fans and make more money. Take TSM for example -- when we went to WDW last year, we knew they were building it. When we went this year, we finally got to ride it after going to rope drop, following the hoards of people to Pixar Place, standing in line for fp, and then waiting another hour to ride it -- and we were not disappointed.

Sorry, D23 is the equivalent of the Narnia ride. And Disney is not going to get a pass from me -- they should have known better.

[DisneyKevin]

I see the season pass as a loyalty thing in itself since it has the same effect and doesn't really work with many other models....and I know you don't think this counts lol)

I dont see it as a loyalty program.

I see it as a way to bring people into the Disney parks to spend money during the slower seasons.

People in the parks spend money.

[cchev]

CCHEV, I think you are a nice person. Maybe you just haven't grown as cynical as some of us. I have waited, and waited for Disney to even pretend to care about its regular guests. They were almost MOCKING the Disney loyalists who attended Mousefest and The Dis's Toy Story Mania party. When you add to that Disney creating a glorified Marketing strategy instead of a loyalty program(that would increase revenue even more I contend), maybe you can see how us Disney lovers are upset.

It's one thing if we all think Disney doesn't give a "darn". It's another for Disney to basically admit they don't give a darn.

And I completely agree with you. I know how they treat many of their hardcore fans....I just don't think that this is really what they are trying to do with this one. I agree with the anger towards that stuff but I think they actually thought they were doing something good with this and misfired...and not that they are purposely screwing over loyal fans like they have on other occasions.

I don't see Disney as an infallible golden calf...I just don't think that this is quite the lack of affection towards loyal fans as people are making it and more of a "oops I guess we got wrong what fans want". I guarantee there is at least one guy who really thought this would be great who is very disappointed right now that the fans don't like it.

I know we disagree but I think what we disagree on is much smaller details than it seems.

And thanks...I try to be nice :)

[Matt@WDWR]

I see your avatar and I wonder if you will yank out my tooth that hurts so bad. haha

Disney will always have my business. However, I don't think they respect my business. If they did, I would come more. The more they treat me as a bother or not a concern, the more I just will lessen my extra visits. Not out of spite, but because Disney no longer is as special a destination as it once was.

[cchev]

Oh and please don't mistake my discussion in any way of insinuating that your opinion is wrong...it is just your opinion (and many others apparently haha) and mine is different. I am not offended or upset with any discussion on the matter and have enjoyed sharing views on the topic and gaining more insight into the matter through it. Thanks for indulging me and being creative, funny, and insightful in your responses.

Freedom is speech is great :goodvibes

[cchev]

I see your avatar and I wonder if you will yank out my tooth that hurts so bad. haha

Disney will always have my business. However, I don't think they respect my business. If they did, I would come more. The more they treat me as a bother or not a concern, the more I just will lessen my extra visits. Not out of spite, but because Disney no longer is as special a destination as it once was.

Ha maybe not your tooth but if you need a kidney done let me know :)

And again, I have to agree with you. Disney dining in general has gone way down in variety, the drink menus are now homogenous in the restaurants, you can find MGM pins in EPCOT, etc....a big loss of uniqueness in the parks...and there's lots more of course that I miss and has been changed.

So we ARE mostly in agreement ha

[DisneyKevin]

Using Bob Iger's words...."something for Disney's highest affinity group" excited me as I truly consider myself as part of that description.

I feel disappointed as I dont think this program offers anything for me.

If Disney had wanted to thrill the "highest affinity group", they could have put out a pricey coffee table book about the archives and history of Disney. I would have easiy plopped down a couple hundred bucks for something that juicy....but alas...they didnt do that. Instead...and this is the way I see it....they have offered me a pricey magazine subscription tied to a marketing program designed to extract more money

I have not seen the magazine yet...but some of the descriptions have been mediocre at best. "Too thin"..."lacking in information"...etc. I'll reserve judgement but $16 is a lot for a magazine. I bought Walt's 900 page biography for $21.00

I also dont think anyone has accused Disney of screwing over fans. Disney still offers a very fine product....in fact, I think they are better at what they do well than anyone else in the world.

I think the disappointment rises from a lot of folks feeling that they belonged to the group Bob Iger described and after "3 years in the making"....they feel they are left out again.

[Matt@WDWR]

Yeah, Bob Iger's own words raised my excitement too. I have no problem with overpaying for certain things because Disney has always provided a good product. However, I felt that D23 and it's offerings was openly mocking me and other fellow Disney fans.

[LudwigVB]

CCHEV, I think you are a nice person. Maybe you just haven't grown as cynical as some of us. I have waited, and waited for Disney to even pretend to care about its regular guests. They were almost MOCKING the Disney loyalists who attended Mousefest and The Dis's Toy Story Mania party. When you add to that Disney creating a glorified Marketing strategy instead of a loyalty program(that would increase revenue even more I contend), maybe you can see how us Disney lovers are upset.

It's one thing if we all think Disney doesn't give a "darn". It's another for Disney to basically admit they don't give a darn.

You raise a very good point that has been bothering me about D23's current conception. I love the fan-initiated blogs, forums, and events like MouseFest, and I think that Disney could possibly enhance and take those ideas to a new level by offering rarities not accessible to even the most hardcore blogger. However, I also see this as Disney's attempt to co-opt the fan realm, perhaps not intentionally, but inevitably rendering them idle.

For instance, there are some genuine geeks in the D23 department that love the idea of MouseFest and want to give it more substance without detracting from the grassroots online community. So, the fan sites are invited to host exhibits at the expo. However, along with the blessing of Disney comes the regulations of Disney, meaning no Dis Unplugged Toy Story Mania parties (or at least parties of the same caliber). Eventually, D23 expo takes the same turn as the Disneyana Conventions, overcharging the fan sites for exhibit space and over-regulating activities, until the fan sites pull out. Finally, having lost those motivated leaders of the online community who labor relentlessly out of love, the D23 expo fizzles out, with the bridges between Disney and the fan leaders burned. We are left without MouseFest or D23 expo.

Of course, this is a doomsday scenario. But, by judging Disney's history of mismanaging these sorts of things, it is not at all improbable. I hope the best for D23 and want it to be a smashing success. There are elements in the Disney Company now, such as Lasseter's leadership and others, that could change Disney's modus operandi. Based on our reactions, Disney missed the mark on the rollout. However based on the free content, I think there is real potential. I am not sure that I can justify the $75 price as the membership benefits currently stand. But, I look forward to what the free website will continue to offer.

[GIR-Prototype]

This is the very definition of a loyalty program.

If you fly a certain airline repeatedly, they reward you with a free flight.

If you buy six ice cream comes at Baskin Robbins, they give you your seventh one for free.

If you gamble in Las Vegas and return to the same casino, you earn loyalty points for free nights, free shows and free meals.

If you shop at Casual Male Big and Tall and spend $250, they send you a gift card for $10.

If you buy vitamins at Vitamin World, once you reach a certain amount spent, you pay the lower discount price.

It's a way of showing appreciation to your most loyal (or highest affinity) group.

You missed my point entirely.

I do not feel or believe that a Loyalty Program would benefit anyone but a very small, miniscule portion of the amount of people who attend Disney parks worldwide. That being said, it would not be a very good marketing tool as a small target audience means a small return. It is well proven that Disney likes to take care of their guests, but it is only practical to offer items, programs, and services that are profitable.

D23 was not meant to be a loyalty program, and it should not be; the way it is now is actually a marketing tool more accurately crafted to reach a larger amount of people, aimed at using history, tradition, trivia, and a mix of unknown and known incentives, via a mixed-media vehicle. All designed to encourage the establishment and support (through special purchases and activities) of a sense of a tradition, "The Disney way."

A loyalty program just isn't efficient for everything Disney. My previous post broke that down and explained how two of the ways that it could be applied are inneffective at reaching a large target audience and thus being effective marketing tools.

[cchev]

Yeah, Bob Iger's own words raised my excitement too. I have no problem with overpaying for certain things because Disney has always provided a good product. However, I felt that D23 and it's offerings was openly mocking me and other fellow Disney fans.

I still maintain that I think that they thought they were doing something good that people would like and did not intend to mock people or anything of the such. Even if its not what people were expecting it isn't "bad". I understand the disappointment towards the lack of support of loyal fans but I think it is being misdirected towards something that isn't even that big of a deal. (But I would by no means be adverse if they improve it either...such as a private club area in the parks for members etc...)

Again I state that I almost always agree with this podcast and its views and understand being disappointed as a loyal fan...I just don't know if I can focus on something that they tried to do right (but obviously failed) as the heart of what's wrong with their relationship with the loyal fans. I think there are much better examples.

[Matt@WDWR]

I am sure the Disney marketeers/morons who created this didn't do so with ill intention. I just think they are clueless. :)

[cchev]

I am sure the Disney marketeers/morons who created this didn't do so with ill intention. I just think they are clueless. :)

I would agree with that....must be to have taken away the Adv. Club too...still recovering from that decision. If this conversation was going on with that topic I would be STRONGLY on the other side ha....they took something away that was obviously loved by loyal Disney people...that really gets to me. The reason this just doesn't get to me if because they weren't actively doing anything bad to fans...they just didn't quite hit their mark on the nose.

[black562]

I would agree with that....must be to have taken away the Adv. Club too...still recovering from that decision.

And that's the ticket right there...re-open Adventurer's Club as Club 23 and people would pay $75 bucks to join in a heartbeat. :confused3

Hey, its just a thought...a guy can dream can't he?

[Matt@WDWR]

I still maintain that I think that they thought they were doing something good that people would like and did not intend to mock people or anything of the such. Even if its not what people were expecting it isn't "bad". I understand the disappointment towards the lack of support of loyal fans but I think it is being misdirected towards something that isn't even that big of a deal. (But I would by no means be adverse if they improve it either...such as a private club area in the parks for members etc...)

Again I state that I almost always agree with this podcast and its views and understand being disappointed as a loyal fan...I just don't know if I can focus on something that they tried to do right (but obviously failed) as the heart of what's wrong with their relationship with the loyal fans. I think there are much better examples.

I would agree with that....must be to have taken away the Adv. Club too...still recovering from that decision. If this conversation was going on with that topic I would be STRONGLY on the other side ha....they took something away that was obviously loved by loyal Disney people...that really gets to me. The reason this just doesn't get to me if because they weren't actively doing anything bad to fans...they just didn't quite hit their mark on the nose.


Disney could get almost all goodwill back by re-opening Adventurers club. GOD, I MISS IT!

[GIR-Prototype]

As for giving money back by offering the dining plan....well....the dining plan keeps people on Disney property and not spending money elsewhere, so again, I'm sorry but I dont view it the same way you do.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I can pay $40 a day, and eat *over* $150 in food per day.
Imagine how much money and Disney time a person or family would lose by leaving to go back to their car in the parking lot, driving off property, possibly paying for additional parking, and having the gas expenditure of driving too and from Disney property.

Yeah sure it is still profitable to Disney, otherwise they would not offer it, but it can really go a long way towards not just saving money on a Disney vacation, but giving you more time to experience the magic of Disney.

I think the potential of saving $115+ on food, gas money, and giving you more Disney time is most definitely, "giving back."

On a nine day stay at WDW last year, my best friend and I used the free dining plan promotion, and through careful planning and forethought, ate enough food based on menu price to EXCEED the cost of our hotel and park admissions.

All it takes is planning and thoughtfulness, and you don't even need a loyalty program to get a good deal.

[cchev]

Disney could get almost all goodwill back by re-opening Adventurers club. GOD, I MISS IT!

See! We do agree on things ha. I still sing the Mailman song for my friends every once in a while...then they make fun of me. It's a vicious circle :cool1:

[Matt@WDWR]

My wife and I spent our entire honeymoon at the Adventurer's Club (well..minus an hour dancing at 80s night at 8 tracks, and uh, 3 hours hours, uh, elsewhere. HAHAHAHAHAHAA).

I am glad we have reached an agreement though. :)

[black562]

See! We do agree on things ha. I still sing the Mailman song for my friends every once in a while...then they make fun of me. It's a vicious circle :cool1:

Sorry, it had to be done.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2859607433_b01fd1a126.jpg

[cchev]

Free Drink Colonel!!!

[Matt@WDWR]

Honeestly, I cannot even believe sometimes that they closed it. God it was amazing. Curse you DTD!

[black562]

Free Drink Colonel!!!

GIN AND TONIC....I SAID GIN......AND TONIC!!!!!!

[cchev]

Yeah if you were there on the last couple nights I probably even saw you guys there lol...there were soooo many tears. I still have problems sometimes watching old video. I guess it's my emotional achilles..... (figures my emotional attachment is to some type of bar...)

[Matt@WDWR]

Supporting the Adventurer's Club closing is equivalent to kicking a baby in my eyes!

[black562]

Yeah if you were there on the last couple nights I probably even saw you guys there lol...there were soooo many tears. I still have problems sometimes watching old video. I guess it's my emotional achilles..... (figures my emotional attachment is to some type of bar...)

You do know the club is still intact and still having parties from time to time. They're still doing shows and dinners there from time to time and even opened it one night when the marathon was going on.

Kinda makes you wonder, why would Disney leave this club alone while tearing everything out of the other ones....hmmmm.

[cchev]

You do know the club is still intact and still having parties from time to time. They're still doing shows and dinners there from time to time and even opened it one night when the marathon was going on.

Kinda makes you wonder, why would Disney leave this club alone while tearing everything out of the other ones....hmmmm.

Private ownership interested in continuing the club? hmmm...?

[DisneyKevin]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

I can pay $40 a day, and eat *over* $150 in food per day.
Imagine how much money and Disney time a person or family would lose by leaving to go back to their car in the parking lot, driving off property, possibly paying for additional parking, and having the gas expenditure of driving too and from Disney property.

Yeah sure it is still profitable to Disney, otherwise they would not offer it, but it can really go a long way towards not just saving money on a Disney vacation, but giving you more time to experience the magic of Disney.

I think the potential of saving $115+ on food, gas money, and giving you more Disney time is most definitely, "giving back."

On a nine day stay at WDW last year, my best friend and I used the free dining plan promotion, and through careful planning and forethought, ate enough food based on menu price to EXCEED the cost of our hotel and park admissions.

All it takes is planning and thoughtfulness, and you don't even need a loyalty program to get a good deal.

Have we converted you to being a DISer?:thumbsup2

[GIR-Prototype]

I also dont think anyone has accused Disney of screwing over fans. Disney still offers a very fine product....in fact, I think they are better at what they do well than anyone else in the world.

Sadly some people have. Including ranting and yelling about how bad it is in their podcasts. I've also sadly seen people who are into Disney enough to join the DISboards and post, say that's it, they're done with Disney because of D23.

It really saddens me the amount of anger displayed over something like this; it is like any other product, if you do not want it you put it back on the shelf. A reasonable person does not stand there in the store, hold it up high, and tell everybody how horrible it is.

Have we converted you to being a DISer?:thumbsup2

In the sense of my enthusiasm about Disney, and my learning curve about how to get the most out of every second spent in the World...I suppose the answer is yes.

[DisneyKevin]

Sadly some people have. Including ranting and yelling about how bad it is in their podcasts. I've also sadly seen people who are into Disney enough to join the DISboards and post, say that's it, they're done with Disney because of D23.

It really saddens me the amount of anger displayed over something like this; it is like any other product, if you do not want it you put it back on the shelf. A reasonable person does not stand there in the store, hold it up high, and tell everybody how horrible it is.



In the sense of my enthusiasm about Disney, and my learning curve about how to get the most out of every second spent in the World...I suppose the answer is yes.

And podcast listener too.:thumbsup2

[SunnieRN]

I honestly have never seen disney as a company which rewards loyalty. There is not any area within the whole of disney that even acts as if it is necessary, inless you count disney movie rewards which is not anything all that great imho. That being said, I can't even count how many times I have been to disneyland and I now own DVC at disney world.
The closest moment that I have seen to disney "getting it" was on July 17, 2005. I was one of the crazed fans who spent the night in Disney CA to be one of the first groups to get into disneyland that morning.
When entering the park, the cm's were lining main street, waving and saying "welcome home"! I think there were just as many cm's as guests who were bawling like babies. That day I feet like disney got it right!
I joined d23, not because I was overly excited by the club offerings, but because the magazine is nice, great quality photos and I am hoping it evolves and becomes more. I also booked Ho Jo's for the conference as I really want to see some of the keynote guests and I am ready to bring my grandsons for their first visit there.
I may never re-join after this year, as I can go to the website, buy the magazine and attend conferences anyway, but I hope disney in some way blows my socks off. One can hope!
As for a private club for d23 members, I would be all for that but honestly don't see that ever happening. Would certainly be nice though.
That is the one thing that does bother me though. What is the real benefit as everything is available to non members except merchandise?

[kpadalik]

You do know the club is still intact and still having parties from time to time. They're still doing shows and dinners there from time to time and even opened it one night when the marathon was going on.

Kinda makes you wonder, why would Disney leave this club alone while tearing everything out of the other ones....hmmmm.

I heard that Lou Mongello is planning a big exclusive party in September at the Adventurer's Club.

[cchev]

I heard the same thing. I don't think I can take anymore time off from the hospital after this trip, but we will see. Hopefully :)

[GIR-Prototype]

I also dont think anyone has accused Disney of screwing over fans. Disney still offers a very fine product....in fact, I think they are better at what they do well than anyone else in the world.

And podcast listener too.:thumbsup2

I can't resist pointing out the incongruency of these two statements.
I mention podcasts, and you know immediately one of them that has said bad things. But you also claim something else...

Which is it? :lmao:

[doconeill]

I dont see it as a loyalty program.

I see it as a way to bring people into the Disney parks to spend money during the slower seasons.

People in the parks spend money.

But that is Disney's business. They HAVE to get you into the parks and spend money. Otherwise it won't survive.

Now, the SEASONAL pass has blackout dates. I don't think they are too bad - mostly at times where Disney is at or close to capacity in some areas. But it could be argued that it is to get the locals on day trips into the parks.

The ANNUAL pass has no such restrictions. You can use it any time, as often as you want, for 1 year. You pay roughly the equivalent of 12 days of MYW park hoppers but get to go a lot more. I think that DOES reward loyalty - if you are going to go two WDW for 12 or more days, they are saying "Hey, here's a ticket for you just for coming so often!" They are not also going to give you free room and board on top of it, because at that point they are better off not having you there.

As for times being tough, I actually don't believe that any publically traded company (which is answerable to the shareholders in general, at least according to our current legal system) is NOT going to simply throw money away for the sense of goodwill when they cannot make revenue targets - the shareholders would have a fit. So I don't actually see any sort of new loyalty program coming any time soon. I can see it AFTERWARDS, as a thank you to those who stuck with Disney through the tough times, when Disney can afford to drop the margin in some areas.

Shareholders unfortunately do not give a damn about guests - because they don't understand the model. Current shareholder culture is all about fast returns. The only way this can change is for Disney to cultivate a culture among its shareholders of the understanding that by putting money back IN to its guests (which are its true revenue stream), which could affect revenue short term, it would may off big dividends at a later time. Which alas I think is impossible. Especially with all the other money-losing divisions that have to be tentpoled by those that are bringing in revenue.

[redrosesix]

Shareholders unfortunately do not give a damn about guests - because they don't understand the model. Current shareholder culture is all about fast returns. The only way this can change is for Disney to cultivate a culture among its shareholders of the understanding that by putting money back IN to its guests (which are its true revenue stream), which could affect revenue short term, it would may off big dividends at a later time. Which alas I think is impossible. Especially with all the other money-losing divisions that have to be tentpoled by those that are bringing in revenue.

OT, but here is my spin on shareholder side of things (comparing what I think are the 2 most common types) ...

I don't agree with this completely -- I think that investors will compare WDC to all of the other publicly traded corps. and choose to buy the one that gives them the best return on their money. Having said that, there are different types of investors. For example, I am a value investor -- I buy a stock that I feel is underpriced relative to its value. When it reaches its potential value or something changes in its outlook, I sell (so...there are many times I have sold a stock the same week I bought it) I also don't like mucky companies, like WDC, where they have their hands in too many pots, most of which are contradictory. So, I like companies like Gap, mining co.'s, and restaurant chains -- they need to have a clearly defined vision.

Many investors look for long term holds -- this is the type of investor that might prefer a pharmaceutical company. They're willing to hold the stock while the co. is developing break-through drugs. They drop them if they don't see potential increases in income in the long term.

So...I don't think WDC fits either of these investment models. And both of these require a pretty good understanding of how the co. works and the economic forces they are contending with.

That being said, the most pressure to get a return on investment doesn't come from individual shareholders -- it comes from the larger shareholders ie. mutual funds and pension funds. Just one of these selling off their shares in a co. has a drastic effect on the share price. I think that fund managers' requirements to bring up the fund values (as a result of the blood bath that they have just experienced) is going to have a big effect on the types of investments they choose. These investors would certainly fit your scenario of requiring short-term gains, so I think for the time being you are correct in your analysis.

[WebmasterJohn]

Sadly some people have. Including ranting and yelling about how bad it is in their podcasts. I've also sadly seen people who are into Disney enough to join the DISboards and post, say that's it, they're done with Disney because of D23.

It really saddens me the amount of anger displayed over something like this; it is like any other product, if you do not want it you put it back on the shelf. A reasonable person does not stand there in the store, hold it up high, and tell everybody how horrible it is.

In my opinion one of the most powerful by-products of the internet has been the ability for people to share viewpoints and ideas. Unlike newspapers or magazines that present the information, the internet affords everyone the oppportunity to share individual opinions. I think that is really cool.

If people feel D23 is not a good idea then they can post about it - if they do think it's a good idea then they can post about that as well.

Some people have taken the initiative to start and maintain blogs or podcasts where their ideas and opinions can be heard. I know some people think these things are supposed to be 'informational only' and shouldn't include opinion but some do.

You, as a consumer, have the right to tell anyone you want how you feel about a product. We, as consumers, have the same right. We just happen to have a podcast.

Instead of feeling sad, or upset that others are displaying dissenting views you should be happy that these vehicles exits. I am. I like reading the different views expressed here and I think it helps me get a good idea of what people think and how they respond to it.

If people are unhappy with D23 and choose not to join they have that option - you have the same option not to listen to a podcast that doesn't meet your needs or makes you sad.

Personally I am very proud of what we have created with the DISUnplugged. It allows people to hear a group of people discuss what they like and don't like about something they love, Disney. I think we are informational as well as editorial and for me the editorial provides for a mucher deeper understading of what we discuss. If you don't want our opinions, or you're afraid we'll say something that will make you sad you have the option of not listening. Or you can even come here and post that you didn't like what was said.

I can guarantee you that this won't be the last you hear us discuss this topic on the podcast. I can also guarantee we haven't said the last thing you will disagree with either.

[LudwigVB]

I have a confession: I am now D23. Call it "Battered Disney Fan Syndrome," but after looking at the site and promo videos, I went back hoping that this time it will be different.

I got my income tax refund yesterday, and it was larger than expected. I also got word yesterday from a graduate school in southern California that I have been accepted, so I will be able to attend the Expo in September (and go to Disneyland every single weekend; I've never been and am stoked!). All things considered, I had extra money I was not expecting and I had a reason to celebrate, so I got caught up in the moment and became a charter member of D23.

Maybe J65 can be a shelter for battered Disney fans!

[doconeill]

Not to tout another podcast - in fact, I've never listened to this one - but one of the co-hosts posted in another forum that tomorrow's show will have the Disney Archives master Dave Smith, manager Betsy Kline, and D23 head Steven Clark, and concerns/questions will be answered.

The post on the WDW Radio forums. The podcast is Mouse Guest Weekly.

Might be interesting to hear what they have to say after the backlash.

John, feel free to squash this post if the links are not appropriate.

[DisneyKevin]

I can't resist pointing out the incongruency of these two statements.
I mention podcasts, and you know immediately one of them that has said bad things. But you also claim something else...

Which is it? :lmao:


This is a bit of a value judgement. Stating an opinion that differs from yours is not "saying bad things". It's saying something with which you dont agree.

And I had to assume that you were speaking of the DIS Unplugged podcast because of what you had posted earlier on this same topic.

Since most of the sentiment here seems to be blatant negativity and factually baseless complaints, I'm going back to my regular forum stomping grounds, where people are more focused on the fun they can have than the negativity they can espouse.

Again.....I just have a different opinion than you do.

But I'm glad you are listening to the podcast and posting on the Unplugged board.

[wildeoscar]

just think, you could be like me and have a different opinion than everyone. And what makes the show (DisUnplugged) great is that it is all about the "hosts" opinions. Kinda like The View, but entertaining and with informative content.

[wildeoscar]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

so who would be whom... I'll start with Kevin would be Rosie, John would be Joy... and no one wants to be Elisabeth.

[cchev]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

so who would be whom... I'll start with Kevin would be Rosie, John would be Joy... and no one wants to be Elisabeth.

But she's so SMART and makes great points!

[WaltD4Me]

just think, you could be like me and have a different opinion than everyone. And what makes the show (DisUnplugged) great is that it is all about the "hosts" opinions. Kinda like The View, but entertaining and with informative content.

And the really cool thing about the DISUnplugged is that you can respond and interact with hosts of it. And now I gotta admit I watch The View...and I can't even TELL you how many times an opinion on that show has made mad, but there really isnt a way to convey that to them, except send an email that you know only some flunky will read if you are lucky.

So I think it's an awesome thing that here, you can not only discuss topics with other like minded...or not so like minded Disney fans, but also the whole Podcast team. Most of the time, I find most of the discussions fascinating and truly thought provoking. I could do without the "Who should be allowed to use an ECV/Wheelchair" discussions, but other than that, it's all good.

[black562]

I heard that Lou Mongello is planning a big exclusive party in September at the Adventurer's Club.

I was going to mention that but wasn't sure if it would be appropriate...so I just said "open for private parties".

I would love to go to that, but I have a Tourism Conference I have to attend and I'm not sure if I can make it down in time. :confused3

[wishspirit]

Ok, again my thoughts:

After reading this the biggest gripe is over the term 'rewarding the fans' by Iger. To some, having a chance for more Disney information and exclusive merchandise is equal to a reward. To a lot of Disney fans this is not equal to a reward (me included), and with the way it was promoted not even being up to scratch makes us really feel used (still no email!)

Now I am not criticising people who want to join D23, more power to you! I personally cannot afford it with the shipping to the UK (another kick in the teeth for international fans, but I have posted about that before).

A lot of Disney fans think that they need to show more support for the ones who go a lot, or have invested interest in the company (AP holder, DVC members). It may not benefit ME (I am going for the first time in 4 years in September, so excited!) however my mother is a DVC member and AP holder, and I would love her to be rewarded for that loyalty. However you could say that the 2 1/2 years of billions of dreams were a way of rewarding people just for going to their parks (not that I won a dang thing in California! :laughing:)

However this blip on the part of the Disney Company does not put me off going or make me any less excited, however if they advertise D23 in the parks, I will not deny my feelings on it.

I would me MUCH prouder to wear a DIS shirt in MK that I ever would wearing a D23 one, which to me shows me as a real Disney fan! (I would prefer a J65 one if I could get one! :goodvibes)

[disneyholic family]

i've fallen behind on the podcasts (wedding plans/apt. renovations for DS - in time for his wedding day/ etc etc)..
anyway....i haven't a clue what D23 is....i googled it and found the website...after a short glance i still don't have a clue what it is...

[eazyeray]

I'd like to compare the D23 to the Red sox Nation club that I'm a member of.

Both have a member card. D23 has a "suitable for framing" certificate and RSN has a bumper sticker (almost as similar and useless to me). Both have access to online content although RSN has exclusive content for members. RSN has discounts at all MLB stores, raffles for game tickets, early access to purchase tickets, member partys with celebrities, free online audio of ALL MLB games, and a magazine at an additional cost. D23 Has a magazine, a special gift, and access to an expo.

Cost, RSN $14.95 - D23 $74.95.

I don't have a problem giving to Red Sox 15 dollars for what they give me. I do have a problem with 75 dollars for what I would get from D23. That being said I went to Barnes and Noble today and bought the magazine. It's good quality and has interesting articles, very thin though and probably not worth 16 bucks. I'm still gonna keep buying them in hopes they get a little bigger with more content.

[Launchpad11B]

I'd like to compare the D23 to the Red sox Nation club that I'm a member of.

Both have a member card. D23 has a "suitable for framing" certificate and RSN has a bumper sticker (almost as similar and useless to me). Both have access to online content although RSN has exclusive content for members. RSN has discounts at all MLB stores, raffles for game tickets, early access to purchase tickets, member partys with celebrities, free online audio of ALL MLB games, and a magazine at an additional cost. D23 Has a magazine, a special gift, and access to an expo.

Cost, RSN $14.95 - D23 $74.95.

I don't have a problem giving to Red Sox 15 dollars for what they give me. I do have a problem with 75 dollars for what I would get from D23. That being said I went to Barnes and Noble today and bought the magazine. It's good quality and has interesting articles, very thin though and probably not worth 16 bucks. I'm still gonna keep buying them in hopes they get a little bigger with more content.

You being a Red Sox fan renders your opinion as questionable at best! Go Yankees!.......................Kidding, I can't tell you how happy I am that spring training is here!! :woohoo:

[LudwigVB]

Not to tout another podcast - in fact, I've never listened to this one - but one of the co-hosts posted in another forum that tomorrow's show will have the Disney Archives master Dave Smith, manager Betsy Kline, and D23 head Steven Clark, and concerns/questions will be answered.

The post on the WDW Radio forums. The podcast is Mouse Guest Weekly.

Might be interesting to hear what they have to say after the backlash.


I am listening to the Mouse Guest Weekly podcast right now, and it is pretty interesting. So far, Smith, Kline, and Clark are talking about their jobs as archivists. Something they mentioned I found interesting was that Dave Smith found the Mary Poppins snowglobe on the shelf in the office of a janitor, who said he found it in the garbage and, not knowing what it was, thought it looked neat!

This reminded me of my time back in college when I was a castmember at the Haunted Mansion at WDW. Underneath Madame Leota (Seance Circle) were many props from extinct attractions just laying around and collecting dust. Among them were an old Max the Deer from Country Bear Jamboree, a rudder from the Mike Fink Keel Boats, and Mr. Ham from Kitchen Kabaret. Mr. Ham was relocated to the closet behind the second Stretch Room, and eventually "disappeared." One of the longest-serving Mansion castmembers is married to a retired imagineer who helped design Kitchen Kabaret. We thought she might know what had happened to Mr. Ham, but we did not ask questions!

[LudwigVB]

Okay, in the Mouse Guest Weekly interview, Clark breaks D23 down as such:

Free content on web will include insider blogs from all the different departments (these blogs are not up yet; the current site is just a skeleton).

Membership content includes just what they announced - a magazine with articles that go "beyond the marketing and press material," a gift that is not a pin (or two pins, "no pinning involved"), exclusive merchandise not to be confused with half the stuff in the D23 Boutique (Walt Disney Signature Collection, Fantasia stationary, etc... these and the $800 pen are not part of D23), the merchandise will include replicas and special collector items from the archives, and finally the Expo.

After listening to this interview, I think the only benefits for buying a membership right now are the exclusive merchandise and the Expo. Everything else, the real meat of the program, will be free and on the website. Again, with the void left after the demise of the old Disney Channel and Disney Magazine, I am thrilled to have access to "Vault Disney" once more.

As for the merchandise, I am not much of a collector; I prefer things like the Walt Disney Treasures dvds. Here's an interesting speculation I had (completely unrelated to anything I have read or heard, so this is not a rumor, just my thoughts), what if Disney feels it cannot release Song of the South to the general public without a backlash, but it could release it as exclusive merchandise for the D23 collector? With a pixie-dust disclaimer from Leonard Maltin, of course! Hmm...

As for the Expo, now that I know I will be in southern California in September and can go, I am very glad I joined D23. I went to a recent conference where it cost $800 to be a "Diamond Member," which allowed for skipping the lines to get into the ballrooms and to get books signed by authors, for reserved front-row seating, and for special receptions. I paid $25 for regular student admission! It seems that D23 members will have similar benefits as the "Diamond Members" at that past conference, but D23 members are not paying extra. Instead, they are getting discounts and special treatment. That alone justifies for me being a member.

To sum up, if you are not a collector or planning on going to the Expo, save your money unless/until new benefits are offered.

[LudwigVB]

Now, Clark is talking about other special events for members. They will initially be held at Disneyland and WDW, including things like early movie screenings. The goal is to expand these events to all around the country once they know where their fans are located (New Jersey!).

The merchandise and special events are considered by Clark to be "perks" and not the purpose of the membership. He said that the membership breaks down to the magazine subscription and a little extra for access to the perks. For Clark, Smith, and Cline, they basically have nothing to do with the merchandise. Their focus is on the web content.

Now we have it, straight from the creators! D23 is not a loyalty program or a collectors program. The free portion is the focus. They feel that they are giving back to the fans through the free content.

Oh, wait, a little teaser: Will they bring special exclusive events and benefits to the theme parks? "Absolutely!" Will family and friends be allowed to participate, or do they all need to be members? "Members will be able to bring along guests." What does the future hold? "We hope it evolves as fans tell us what they want!" "We want it to be a real community and not just a club; we want people to share in it as a community."

[WaltD4Me]

Thanks for posting about the podcast with Dave Smith...it was really interesting, I can't believe they were so non-chalant about the stuff from the Haunted Mansion while they were doing the re-furb! I wonder what would have happened to that stuff if they people from the archives hadn't happened to be there? I really, really hope they follow through and build a museum, it would just be amazing. I think it's sad that all that wonderful Disney history is just sitting in boxes in a warehouse.

[Matt@WDWR]

They need to stop saying free. lol It costs at the minimum of $80. kidding aside, I can't rant forever. I just hope they realize the ire and keep adding to it. I am not sure why they did not have some of these "insider blogs" already on the site.