News, no longer rumor - WDW layoffs

[Mouseaholic!!!]

News on Orlando TV before the Sentinal can even publish.

Who said Disney was not affected by the economy.



Disney Layoffs Massive, Employees Say
Posted: 8:36 am EDT March 10, 2009

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Sources close to Eyewitness News inside Disney World say there are massive layoffs going on at Central Florida's number one employer.

Employees at the theme park tell us the number of people let go in recent weeks is in the hundreds. However, Disney would not confirm the layoff numbers, saying only that those figures are speculative.

One man told us his friend was among those recently laid off from managerial positions.

"Disney is pretty much what brings tourism here and if people are laid off, that means there are not a lot of people coming into town right now," said John Carol, friend of Disney employee.

In February, Disney said a major reorganization of the company would lead to some job cuts.

Disney will not say how many Central Florida employees will be affected.

[jimmymac]

The timing makes you wonder if D23, Disney Going Green program and The View at DL are smoke screens to hide this little tidbit, which they always deny anyway. My prayers to all the workers and their families affected by this

[redrosesix]

The timing makes you wonder if D23, Disney Going Green program and The View at DL are smoke screens to hide this little tidbit, which they always deny anyway. My prayers to all the workers and their families affected by this

I think you're onto something there. The timing is just a bit too perfect.

[Metro West]

The timing makes you wonder if D23, Disney Going Green program and The View at DL are smoke screens to hide this little tidbit, which they always deny anyway. My prayers to all the workers and their families affected by thisThat's a very good point...kinda makes you wonder.

[Mickmse2002]

Is there ever really a good time or a good way to announce layoffs? Being from Michigan it is something that has been happenning here almost daily.

[The Rivers' Rats]

I'll bet this wasn't even hinted at during the stockholders' meeting which was held that morning...

[WDSearcher]

Disney Layoffs Massive, Employees Say
Posted: 8:36 am EDT March 10, 2009

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Sources close to Eyewitness News inside Disney World say there are massive layoffs going on at Central Florida's number one employer.

Employees at the theme park tell us the number of people let go in recent weeks is in the hundreds. However, Disney would not confirm the layoff numbers, saying only that those figures are speculative.

One man told us his friend was among those recently laid off from managerial positions.

"Disney is pretty much what brings tourism here and if people are laid off, that means there are not a lot of people coming into town right now," said John Carol, friend of Disney employee.

In February, Disney said a major reorganization of the company would lead to some job cuts.

Disney will not say how many Central Florida employees will be affected.
But there's really no "news" here, is there? I mean, Disney has been saying for months now that they were looking to cut some jobs. That's not new information.

"One man told us his friend was among those recently laid off from managerial positions." OK ... managerial positions where? Parks? Resorts? Marketing? Merchandise? Entertainment? Ops? Foods? Wastewater management? That's all they've got as a "source" is one man's friend from who-knows-which department?

And one of how many? One of three? One of a dozen? A hundred? Five hundred?

The lead to the story says there are "massive layoffs" going on, but nothing in the article corroborates that. They mention one guy. One guy isn't "massive."

"Employees at the theme park tell us the number of people let go in recent weeks is in the hundreds.", but where is the back-up? No source other than "employees at the theme park." That's just as concrete as the "employees at the theme park" who consistently tell Guests that WDW is planning a fifth gate or that Pirate & Princess parties are coming back in April or that a Villains Park is on the drawing boards.

Then the one guy they DO quote doesn't even work at Disney. He's "friend of Disney employee."

I don't see how this particular "news story" provides anything in the way of actual information. Was there more concrete info in the broadcast version?

:earsboy:

[WDSearcher]

I'll bet this wasn't even hinted at during the stockholders' meeting which was held that morning...
Actually it was. Bob Iger told the meeting how many execs took the buy-out and commented on the fact that the combining and reorganizing of the domestic elements of the company would lead to some job loss, although he didn't say how many. I suspect they don't exactly know yet.

The Iger speech and Q&A are available on the Disney stockholder's site -- there's a recording of the webcast that you can listen to -- if you want to hear exactly what he said.

:earsboy:

[lxh11]

Any company anywhere in the US has to report to the labor department when a significant number of layoffs are going to occur in a single geographic area. Once this figure is reported to the Dept of Labor, it is then public knowledge, and anyone can access this information.

If indeed "massive" numbers of people had been laid off, the labor dept would know about it and the info would be available to the media.

Obviously this has not happened, which is why this particular reporter has had to resort to a friend of an ex employee.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Could we get Bob Iger to take the executive buyout...Please.

...(Iger's a slug)...
pirate:

[MCO737FO]

I have 2 friends in the town of Celebration (where I live) that have been laid-off. Both neglected to take the buyout - not second guessing their decision, as those are very private, individual things. One was in merchandising, another at DCL. A friend still there in Entertainment management told me that they have already laid-off over 200 front-line managers in Parks. Security showing up to escort each one off property, or arriving to a cleaned-out desk/cube with Security waiting with your "box or personal property." She told me that the stated goal is to have all of the initial round of RIF's completed by 3/13 so that people can start sleeping again at night (at least those that still have jobs), and gear-up to focus on the Easter/Spring Break. I have been told that morale is extremely low, frustration high, communication poor, etc. lending to a diminished guest experience. While this is may obviously be subjective and assumptive, it also seems very reasonable and predictable.

Blessings to those who have lost their jobs, and to those that remain. I wish you well. My personal feelings towards the WDW Company diminish with each day, and each experience. As a guest, customer, and AP Holder I feel that the quality of this product is nosediving. Parks are tired and dirty, and the magic is barely there. The cuts have been too drastic. I don't think I'm going to renew the passes later this year when they expire.

For those of you not local to the Orlando area, please do not let my accurate portrayal of the state of WDW keep you from flying to Florida, as my company still needs your business! A dirty tired and ambivilent WDW is still probably better than a day at the King of Prussia mall! Like the old adage says, when the tiger is chasing you through the jungle, you don't need to outrun the tiger, only the slowest tribesman. Even if WDW is a shell of what it used to be, I guess it is still better than other alternatives. Just sad that they have lost the passion to be the defacto standard of service and quality.

[scooter15]

I have 2 friends in the town of Celebration (where I live) that have been laid-off. Both neglected to take the buyout - not second guessing their decision, as those are very private, individual things.

I am assuming they were director or above. Do you know if those middle managers that have been laid off, received some type of severence package as well? I am sure it will be based on time at the company but just wondering if you know.

[bomzar]

Disney had already announced they were offering the voluntary buy out package to 313 Orlando based managers, so the Sentiel just rehashed what has already been known for weeks!

[WDSearcher]

I am assuming they were director or above. Do you know if those middle managers that have been laid off, received some type of severence package as well? I am sure it will be based on time at the company but just wondering if you know.
As I understand it, if you've been with Disney for more than five years, you get four weeks pay, plus one week's pay for each year you've been with Disney, plus any accrued vacation / sick time still on the books, plus you can keep your insurance until the end of the calendar year.

If you've been with Disney for less than five years, it's the same deal, only with one week of pay instead of four at the front.

:earsboy:

[WDSearcher]

I have been told that morale is extremely low, frustration high, communication poor, etc.
I think that's normal in a recessed economy when people are being laid off. One wouldn't expect morale to be high or for there to be no frustration. How many people do you know of in companies right now who are not suffering from morale, communication and frustration problems?

lending to a diminished guest experience. While this is may obviously be subjective and assumptive, it also seems very reasonable and predictable.
I haven't seen it, but I guess it depends on what you're looking for. If you look for the negatives, you'll find them -- that was always true. But I think perhaps people are looking for them now more than they ever did because they know the economy is suffering and, for some reason, expect Disney to not be hit by that. And then they're surprised and disappointed to find out that Disney is "human." A full trash can that would have been overlooked a year ago as "Wow ...the park is so busy they can't keep the cans empty!" is now seen in the context of, "Wow ... there are so many custodial staff laid off the park is falling apart."

As a guest, customer, and AP Holder I feel that the quality of this product is nosediving. Parks are tired and dirty, and the magic is barely there. The cuts have been too drastic. I don't think I'm going to renew the passes later this year when they expire.
If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't. You should not be putting your money into a company or experience that you feel is not giving you your money's worth. However, as I said above, my perception is not that "the magic is barely there" or that the "parks are tired and dirty." I think maybe you're assuming that things will be worse and so you're looking for those things to somehow corroborate your assumption. The "magic" is in you just as much as it is in Disney. And if you're not able to walk into Disney looking for the magic, as opposed to looking to see if the bathroom is dirty, then maybe it's time for a break.

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

I don't think the place is very magical anymore either and we won't be renewing our AP's this spring because they refuse to act like Disney. That doesn't mean they have act like they like losing money or lose money gracefully but there are ways to look at the big picture vs. short term and Iger only see's things his one, short sighted, quarterly, wall st. pleasing way.

Bye, bye Disney. The recession will end and when it does Disney will be gone I'm afraid.
pirate:

[WDSearcher]

I don't think the place is very magical anymore either and we won't be renewing our AP's this spring because they refuse to act like Disney. That doesn't mean they have act like they like losing money or lose money gracefully but there are ways to look at the big picture vs. short term and Iger only see's things his one, short sighted, quarterly, wall st. pleasing way.

Bye, bye Disney. The recession will end and when it does Disney will be gone I'm afraid.
pirate:
Do you have any specifics as to why they aren't "acting like Disney?" It sounds more like you don't like Iger and have decided that Disney's not worth it with him in charge. Your opinion is your opinion, of course, but I was just wondering.

I'd be willing to bet you a fairly large amount of money that Disney will still be there after the recession. Just like it was after the last one.

:earsboy:

[caitlinsmom]

Disney is a business, just like any other business and the economy effects them just like anyone else. Morale is down everywhere, jobs are being lost everywhere.

Would you rather Disney lay off a few hundred out of thousands of employees or would you rather have rides not run. The fact of the matter is that every company nationwide needs to do things to survive the recession and while I'm not thrilled that Disney had to layoff employees I'd rather have that happen than some of the other options.

For those of you who say the magic is not there anymore, are you seriously that upset over an overflowing trash can or a promotion that's not available on weekends?

[OrlandoMike]

Here in Orlando, Channel 9 (WFTV) just reported on the noon news they would have info on tonights 6:00 news about how many layoff are about to take place.....

[Peter Pirate 2]

caitlinsmom, if your view of Disney is that "it's just another business" then you and I at least have no room for discussion at all. The Disney that I grew up with and loved over the years has always been much, much more than 'just a business' in nearly all matters of conern. Do they and have they always had to operate for a profit? Of course but if that had been Walt's sole motivation we wouldn't be having this discussion today because Disney would just be Six Flags.:sad2:

WDSearcher, I was a huge believer in giving Iger his shot when Eisner left. I felt he had earned it by licking Mikey's boots for all those years and also (wrongly) figured he'd have seen some of the errors in Eisner's ways. Turns out he isn't anything more than a bootlicker. I hear he's a really swell guy and all and probably a great father and husband but he just doesn't get the Disney legacy. While I agree that the Company can't be run as Walt ran it for a multitude of reasons, there is absolutely no reason it can't be run based on Walt's tried and true principals - Principals that worked so well that many of us still talk about them today. Principals that propelled PIXAR to the top of their field (before the Disney buyout).

As for will Disney still be there after the recession I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that YOUR Disney will still be there ... I'll also bet that all semblence to the 'real' Disney will be lost forever save for clever advertising campaigns and mass appeal gimmicks.:sad1:
pirate:

[WDSearcher]

WDSearcher, I was a huge believer in giving Iger his shot when Eisner left. I felt he had earned it by licking Mikey's boots for all those years and also (wrongly) figured he'd have seen some of the errors in Eisner's ways. Turns out he isn't anything more than a bootlicker. I hear he's a really swell guy and all and probably a great father and husband but he just doesn't get the Disney legacy. While I agree that the Company can't be run as Walt ran it for a multitude of reasons, there is absolutely no reason it can't be run based on Walt's tried and true principals - Principals that worked so well that many of us still talk about them today. Principals that propelled PIXAR to the top of their field (before the Disney buyout).

Which tried and true principles of Walt's do you mean? I'm not trying to be argumentative. But I grew up with Disney too. The Disney I loved back then is still the Disney I see today. Much bigger, of course, but fundamentally the same. I don't know what you mean when you say the "real" Disney. Clearly your "real Disney" is different than mine, but I wonder how much of yours is clouded in the nostalia of what you believed Disney was when you were younger, and I wonder if that image you have is even attainable.

But I would like to know what "principles that worked so well that many of us still talk about them today" that you feel are missing.

As for will Disney still be there after the recession I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that YOUR Disney will still be there ... I'll also bet that all semblence to the 'real' Disney will be lost forever save for clever advertising campaigns and mass appeal gimmicks.:sad1: pirate:

But really ... wasn't MMC just a clever advertising campaign and mass appeal gimmick? A way to get kids excited about all things Disney? To buy products and talk their parents into taking them to Disneyland? Look at all the TV specials Walt shot in the park. Every TV show ... every film became an attraction and begat merchandise. In that way, the entire Disney empire is really just a clever adversiting campaign to get people to go to Disney movies and buy Disney merchandise. That whole concept of "synergy" and merchandising started with Walt. From day one, Disneyland was developed as a marketing tool to help sell Disney products. Sure, Walt also wanted a clean safe amusement park to take his daughters too, but pretty much everything there was developed as a sales tool for something.

As I said ... I wonder how much of your disillusionment is the mere fact that you loved Walt (and the nostalgic memory of Walt) and hate Iger (because he's not Walt).

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

Clearly you haven't followed my posts over the years.

I don't even particularily like Walt. HE was a mean, self absorbed crumudgeon who had to have his way all of the time. Thing about Walt though is that his way was always the right way as it turned out and I can't argue with success and especially not with the successes that he gave to me and the world.

His philosophies of quality first (quality only), exceeding a guests expectations, never taking shortcuts are hallmarks of his ideals. Universities used to teach classes on "The Disney Way" ... How they meticulously and without worry about cost screened, picked and trained their Castmembers to ensure their fit with the Company and its goals. How they did everything 'in house' to ensure that quality, etc.

He built a business around how he thought things should be and people should be treated and it worked very well. He knew that quality, while certainly more expensive to offer, would be eaten up by the public and as long as you offered that product that was so different from all others the profits would simply roll in. The worry wasn't in the profitability it was in the product because Walt KNEW that the one would ALWAYS follow the other.

If Mr. Iger wants to prove to me he cares about this Company let him make a dollar for the next year or two and save how many CM's jobs with the millions in savings, then when profits start rolling in again he can jump back on the gravy train if the BOD are still dolling out the dough for his kind of work.

Disney should be about QUALITY FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT not decent entertainment at the highest price they can possibly charge the masses to achieve their quarterly target numbers.
pirate:

[MCO737FO]

WDSearher - OK, Are you Meg Crofton?!? Come on - fess-up!!!

WDS - I respect your view, truly. I wish I could share the feeling (or at least the kool-aid). Trust me, I have never once gone to Disney, or anywhere looking for dirt, or an overflowing trash can. If I assumed I would not be having a good time, I would not go. I'm not nearly the pessimist you assume me to be. A realist, very much so.

Like I said, WDW in my opinion is a shell of it's former-self (in terms of overall experience), but lucky for Disney that is still better than what you can get elsewhere. My attitude toward this preceeded the recent layoffs.

I haven't spoken with anyone tied to WDW who doesn't agree that the experience peaked about 10 years ago, and has declined ever since.

And for the record, Disney is not losing money. They simply not making as much as they once were. I have no problem with Disney cutting jobs (as much as I feel for those affected). Job cutting, furloughs, and layoffs have been a reality of my profession as long as I have been part of it.

I despise hypocrisy, and hate the spin.

Let's see. When they changed the ending of Kil Safaris in AK, and did away with the CM holding the rifle, and later a radio at the end of the ride, a manager told me that they did away with the live person due to guest feedback. Are you kidding me? I suppose guest feedback is also the reason the Yeti has been broken for 2 years, that linen table cloths have been removed from the restaurants in EPCOT as the menu prices have approached the stratosphere, that Fantasmis is 2 nights/week (and not a weekend night - gotta drive attendance on the off days!), live entertainment has been cut everywhere. Now that I recall, it was also due to guest feedback that the World SHowcase opening was pushed back to 11A after 9/11.

I don't think anyone wants Disney to be the American Red Cross, no, we want them to be a succesful, thriving, competitive company, consistent with our free market beliefs. For those of us that are disneyphiles, it would have been nice if they had done that within the framework of Walt's vision.

Just be honest. "We choose to run EE because with a still Yeti and strobe lights because we know people won't stop coming just because the Yeti is broken."

"Our restaruants are filled and booked 180 days in advance, so frankly noone is gonna stop coming for our mass-produced banquet food, served on a wooden table."

Remember when the butter at Disney had the WDW logo on it? remember when each restaurant had a signature bread? When the restaurant at Wilderness used to start you off with that big basket of homemade fries when you set down? the cheese bread at the Yachtsman?

I guess Disney is not really "bad." It has just descended to be like everything else, and is no longer really like Disney. I guess as a human, it will take time to adapt to change, and eventually I will come to accept Disney's new low bar, and therefore have my expectations reset. Until then, I'll occasionally drop by to offer a realistic view.

As for low morale everywhere. Nope, I'm very happy to report that the morale within my organization is very high, and I for one am very bullish, despite the economy.

Do you like my new slogan, A bad day at Disney is still better than a good day at work." They should never revive the "Do you remember the magic" campaign. It will leave us all depressed!!! Yes, Yes, we remember the magic, please Bob, can you give it back to us???

[WDSearcher]

Let's see. When they changed the ending of Kil Safaris in AK, and did away with the CM holding the rifle, and later a radio at the end of the ride, a manager told me that they did away with the live person due to guest feedback. Are you kidding me? I suppose guest feedback is also the reason the Yeti has been broken for 2 years, that linen table cloths have been removed from the restaurants in EPCOT as the menu prices have approached the stratosphere, that Fantasmis is 2 nights/week (and not a weekend night - gotta drive attendance on the off days!), live entertainment has been cut everywhere. Now that I recall, it was also due to guest feedback that the World SHowcase opening was pushed back to 11A after 9/11.

I don't think anyone wants Disney to be the American Red Cross, no, we want them to be a succesful, thriving, competitive company, consistent with our free market beliefs. For those of us that are disneyphiles, it would have been nice if they had done that within the framework of Walt's vision.

Just be honest. "We choose to run EE because with a still Yeti and strobe lights because we know people won't stop coming just because the Yeti is broken."

Actually, the nights chosen for Fant! were based more on performer and maintenance schedules than anything else. No one does Fant! exclusively ... they also do other shows and venues, so you have to make sure the schedules mesh and are overlapping properly so you don't end up with people on OT or too many people working too few hours. But that's neither here nor there. :)

Seriously, though. If a Disney spokesperson came flat out and said, "We choose to run EE because with a still Yeti and strobe lights because we know people won't stop coming just because the Yeti is broken.", would you honestly respect them for that, or would you scoff and say, "I cannot believe they just admitted that! What losers!"

I agree that there are things that could be done differently. But I also see Disney's point. If the restaurants are filled and booked 180 days in advance, should Disney spend more on menu development -- knowing that they'll just create more demand and, then, guest dissatisfaction because the restaurants are even more full -- or do they let menu development go and spend some time and money on rehabbing Space Mountain? Unfortunately, the business is gargantuan compared to what Walt had to deal with, and that has hurt things here and there. Walt didn't have stockholders to deal with. He had Roy and a far smaller balance sheet.

I remember not only the WDW logo butter but the mini Mickey butter sculptures. And yes, I miss them. But that wasn't "Disney" to me. Yeah, it was cool, but every time we would sit down to dinner my dad would say, "No wonder its so expensive here; how much do you think they pay the guy to sculpt the butter." He was kidding, mostly, but he equated the special butter with expense, not "Disney quality." Once the butter was just normal patties, he stopped complaining about the price of the meal. Because in his head, now the meal was priced properly. He was paying for the meal, not some guy to mold butter. What you see as a "special Disney touch" he saw as something unnecessary that was costing him money. So in that respect, if more people felt like my dad than felt like you then yes ... Disney could well say that guest comments made them change the butter.

Now, my dad also thought that the parks themselves were a great deal for what you got. One price and you got as many rides on Small World or Thunder Mountain or Spaceship Earth as you wanted. He looked at all of those things with the wonder of a kid because they were things that we never saw up in the Midwest. Of course, we also only came to WDW once every three years, so there was a lot of time for it to fade from memory and then amaze us again. I don't believe that Walt designed Disneyland with the thought that people would come 50 times a year. I think he figured it would be a once or twice a year destination for some and a once-in-a-lifetime trip for many. Sure he designed it to always be changing and, therefore, always luring you back, but I don't think he figured that there would be this huge group of Disneyphiles scrutinizing every screwhead or ceiling tile.

I guess Disney is not really "bad." It has just descended to be like everything else, and is no longer really like Disney. I guess as a human, it will take time to adapt to change, and eventually I will come to accept Disney's new low bar, and therefore have my expectations reset.
I don't think the bar is any lower. I think the bar defines a different thing. But again, that's my opinion based on how I view Disney vs. other things in my life. Your life experiences are different and, therefore, so is your view. And y'know? I don't really notice a difference in the tablecloths or care that they changed the end of the safari. I still enjoy my dinner and I still love the safari. And in that sense, yes ... "my" Disney is vastly different from yours.

:earsboy:

[WDSearcher]

If Mr. Iger wants to prove to me he cares about this Company let him make a dollar for the next year or two and save how many CM's jobs with the millions in savings, then when profits start rolling in again he can jump back on the gravy train if the BOD are still dolling out the dough for his kind of work.
Then again, if the CMs that are being laid off are not necessary to the operation (are there too many levels of managers? are there six people doing the job that four people could do just as well?), then I as a stockholder would love it if the company streamlined. I mean, I'm sorry that people will lose their jobs, but if the company becomes more efficient based on realigning some work roles, I'm all for that in the long run. You're putting cause-and-effect between Iger's pay and CMs being laid off. I don't think the two things have that much to do with one another. If cutting Iger's salary to a buck saves four CM jobs that shouldnt' be there to begin with, how is that better?

Disney should be about QUALITY FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT not decent entertainment at the highest price they can possibly charge the masses to achieve their quarterly target numbers.
pirate:
"Quality Family Entertainment" is obviously subjective. I think much of what Disney does IS quality family entertainment. Not everything, but mostly. And they don't charge the highest price they can possibly charge the masses. If they did, the masses would have reached the tipping point and would balk at any and every increase. Yet ... they don't. Prices go up, and the parks are still full. DVDs fly off the shelves. Plush toys and princess dresses go at a pretty good clip. Clearly the public has not yet reached that "it's too expensive ... I'm not buying any more" threshold. And ... well ... Disney is not achieving their quarterly target numbers, or so say my quarterly reports. So they're blowing it on that scale. But having watched Michael (and before Michael when the corporate raiders wanted to dissect the company and sell it off in pieces), I think Iger's doing a good job with a diverse company in a tough economy. And that's really all I can ask for from a stockholder standpoint. It does me no good if he lowers prices, reduces the profit margin and doesn't hit projections, y'know?

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

I just disagree. Everything Disney does now is based on research designed to maximize profit potential. Can you tell me any other reason they would totally decimate the awesome Disney dining experience of the 'Signatures' that they once had in favor of the insipid and coma inspiring, generic dining plans?

RE: prices ... I think it's very obvious they charge the very minimum price that people will pay before rebelling AND they have come up with so many creative ways of hiding those prices.

We can disagree, that's OK, but I still will contend that Disney should not be cowtowing to the shareholders and wall st. They should run their Company prudently, in Disney fashion and make money from the expression of quality and storytelling at it's finest...The Disney way. If investors don't like the Disney way they shouldn't invest in it, IMO.

But I think the pendulum has swung too far and Iger's ilk will now rule the roost forever, meaning Disney will never again be a Company that cares about quality first, nor will they ever lead the way in creativity again. Goodbye Disney, hello Six Flags.

pirate:

[Peter Pirate 2]

BTW, Jack Welch, the former very well thought of CEO of GE has just stated that such a strong focus on short term, quarterly goals was a big mistake...hmmm.
pirate:

[WDSearcher]

We can disagree, that's OK, but I still will contend that Disney should not be cowtowing to the shareholders and wall st. They should run their Company prudently, in Disney fashion and make money from the expression of quality and storytelling at it's finest...The Disney way. If investors don't like the Disney way they shouldn't invest in it, IMO.
I would agree with you if Disney operated in a vacuum. Unfortunately, it doesn't. I do agree that Disney storytelling is the hallmark of what the Company does. And that of all the Disney virtues, everything they do should come back to the story. I've seen evidence that story is more important than ever within the organization, but they are still trying to get ground back that was lost at various points in the past. In the pre-Pixar acquisition years, for example, Disney storytelling suffered greatly. With new artistic energy in animation, those latent storytelling genes are starting to re-emerge. I don't expect that kind of thing to fix itself overnight. But I see progress, and I'm happy for that.

But I think the pendulum has swung too far and Iger's ilk will now rule the roost forever, meaning Disney will never again be a Company that cares about quality first, nor will they ever lead the way in creativity again. Goodbye Disney, hello Six Flags.
Really? There's nothing in between? You go directly from "Disney" to "Six Flags"? That's what hurts your argument to me. That over-dramatic "Disney goes from being all that is well with the world directly to the dregs of amusement park existence in one fell swoop." That thought that if Disney does not remain exactly as you wish it to be, then there is truly no hope. There is no Disney left if Disney is not "your" Disney.

I still see a great deal of creativity, hard work, quality and caring in the Disney organization. You don't. As you said, we can disagree and that's OK. I just feel badly that some people are so wrapped up in what isn't there any more that they can't see the marvels that still are.

:earsboy:

[WDSearcher]

BTW, Jack Welch, the former very well thought of CEO of GE has just stated that such a strong focus on short term, quarterly goals was a big mistake...hmmm.
pirate:
Not sure that the two industries (automobiles and theme parks) are comparable on this scale, but point taken.

:earsboy:

[lxh11]

WDS you have a very balanced sensible view about all this, unlike those that choose to moan and cry about how it's now the way it used to be.

I find this odd, if it's that bad and you don't enjoy it - don't go back and that's that. Show them take your money somewhere you will enjoy. It appears that many here are on a mission to lambast anything & everything and they must get get some sort of enjoyment about nit picking. Sensible people who don't like something, move on to what does suit them.

[Peter Pirate 2]

WDS you have a very balanced sensible view about all this, unlike those that choose to moan and cry about how it's now the way it used to be.

I find this odd, if it's that bad and you don't enjoy it - don't go back and that's that. Show them take your money somewhere you will enjoy. It appears that many here are on a mission to lambast anything & everything and they must get get some sort of enjoyment about nit picking. Sensible people who don't like something, move on to what does suit them.
"moan and cry." LOL. Searcher is at least trying to understand where I'm coming from. The old 'if you don't like it don't go' is always the easiest brush off. But I have already stated we WON'T be renewing our AP's this spring. We have active two year passes to Universal and I'm quite content going there when I go out. So I really am taking your advice aren't I? Does that mean I should be banned from discussing something I enjoy talking about too?

Searcher, my comparison to Six Flags is simple hyperbole. Because in the world of theme parks the usual generalization is that Disney is easily the cream of the crop and the rest battle with six flags for the bottom. Clearly Universal, for one, stands far and away above six flags as well.

RE: Welch, certainly the industries and companies share little to compare but the fact that a generally very well respected and high profile CEO has made statements of this nature should speak directly to a company that thrives in the quality first business like I've argued Disney is (or should be).

RE: PIXAR, I've been thrilled with what they've released for Disney thus far but all of those offerings were already in the works prior to the buyout. Now PIXAR has seen a lot of creative and internal changes and there have been many departures so whether PIXAR will continue to create to the level they did prior to being acquired remains to be seen, IMO. I'm not positive, of course.

But the sad part of this is that Disney, due to their bottom line mentality, decimated their own top of the line animation department in the name of synergy, product tie ins and fear of risk taking in telling a story. The fact that Disney had to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for something they basically had the birthright to stinks to high heaven.
pirate:

[WDSearcher]

But the sad part of this is that Disney, due to their bottom line mentality, decimated their own top of the line animation department in the name of synergy, product tie ins and fear of risk taking in telling a story. The fact that Disney had to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for something they basically had the birthright to stinks to high heaven.
pirate:
I agree. But to know that someone saw that and then found a way to fix it is a plus for me. We can discuss ad nauseum why it happened and how it shouldn't have and how silly it was for Disney to have to go buy up Pixar when some care and feeding earlier in the decade would have saved the internal group, but the point is that Disney did what Disney did, for whatever reasons they had at the time. Michael took something apart and Bob came in and put as his #1 task to fix that one thing. Which he did by acquiring Pixar.

I know that there are folks at Disney hoping and waiting for the first big Pixar flop because it will make all those Disney animators (and ex-animators) feel better about themselves. I don't get that. Disney animation faltered and fell. It happened. Get over it and move on. Don't sit, wishing for Pixar to fail too so that you can feel better about what your area didn't do or wasn't allowed to do. Learn from it, hopefully, but move on. That's the part of all of this that really bugs me, I guess. Stuff happens. Stuff on a grand corporate scale. No company is immune. No corporate culture perfect. People are fallible. I can't fault Bob for coming in and wanting to make the company his own. Not all Bob's stuff worked. Not all of Walt's stuff worked either, but he was on a far smaller and far less visible playing field. No one had done what he'd done before, so no one could compare him to the first guy. No one said, "Gee, if Walt had just done it the way so-and-so did it ..." because there WAS no "so-and-so." He had that distinct advantage.

I remember an early Jeffrey Katzenberg interview where someone asked him if he thought Walt would approve of what he was doing with animation. And he said (paraphrasing here), "I don't know. Walt is dead. No one knows what he thinks." and I stood up and applauded. Because I was getting so tired of the "WWWD?" mentality that seemed to be stifling creative thought.

Like you, I also enjoy Universal, although I'd never stop going to Disney because of it. I don't like the overall "feel" of their parks. I don't like the "CityWalk crush" as I call the walk between the parks. I can't STAND the parking. I don't like that all of their advertising has to slam (or copy) Disney. I never feel that they're pushing their own parks on their merits. They're always saying, "Come here because we're cheaper than Disney" or "come here because Disney is all fairies and pixie dust." Or else you've got the new "feel like a superhero" commercials that are so Disneyesque that I had to watch it twice to be sure it WASN'T a Disney ad. I don't want to hear what Disney DOESN'T have ... tell me what you DO have. Who cares about Disney? Tell me about Universal! When Universal stops thinking of themselves as Disney's red-headed step-cousin down the road, then I'll have a better appreciation for them.

And you know ... maybe a break from Disney will be just what you need to re-discover what it is they still have that no one else can match. Or ... it may totally convince you that you're "done" where Disney is concerned. Either way, you'll be spending your money where you feel you're getting the most back for YOU. And a line somewhere at Disney will be shorter for me. ;)

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

If PIXAR continues to suceed in the same vein they did before Disney bought them then I agree it's better than what they had in place and you're right, arguing over what happened in the past only goes so far. I, for one love Rat and Wall-E and am hopeful that enough freedom will still be allowed these guys (artists) to continue doing what they do best.:thumbsup2 Note: I do not want a PIXAR flop, that is silly behavior IMO.

In my 20 years of discussing Disney culture I only used the WWWD comment a couple of times and that was recently in response to claims that I thought totally cynical in discussion's of Walt Disney. But I too realize that Walt is dead and no one knows what specifically he would do or like. IMO, If Walt would have been a younger man when WDW opened we would have never seen another theme park from him. He was into urban planning, see EPCOT, and would have probably sunk everything into creating that utopia next. Walt didn't stand on his laurels nor did he like to reinvent the wheel. So I agree that WWWD is basically useless. I prefer to promote the ideals that he ran his business by vs. what exists today and that's so difficult to discuss because again, it's all conjecture but I personally feel Disney COULD run by essentially the rules as they once did and be very successful with a better product.

RE: Universal, I like all the things you don't.:rotfl: I like the garages and moving sidewalks, I like the hustle and bustle of City Walk (reminds me a bit of DL). I agree about the negative advertising but in this world this is what works (sadly, IMO). But basically I want all of the PArks to be the best they can be because that benefits me. I am no longer the brand monkey I once was as I will gladly enjoy whatever any of them give me that is top quality.:thumbsup2
pirate:

[disney1990]

But I think the pendulum has swung too far and Iger's ilk will now rule the roost forever, meaning Disney will never again be a Company that cares about quality first, nor will they ever lead the way in creativity again. Goodbye Disney, hello Six Flags.

pirate:

So do you mean the Six Flags that is thinking about filing for bankruptcy? There's such a big difference between the 2 - there is no comparison. We have a Six Flags about 15 minutes from my house and I would NEVER go there. It is gross.

[Peter Pirate 2]

So do you mean the Six Flags that is thinking about filing for bankruptcy? There's such a big difference between the 2 - there is no comparison. We have a Six Flags about 15 minutes from my house and I would NEVER go there. It is gross.

As I explained, it wasn't meant to be literal it was poetic license...
pirate:

[WDSearcher]

As I explained, it wasn't meant to be literal it was poetic license...
pirate:
Next time, please write in haiku. Thank you.

:earsboy:

[WDSearcher]

In my 20 years of discussing Disney culture I only used the WWWD comment a couple of times and that was recently in response to claims that I thought totally cynical in discussion's of Walt Disney. But I too realize that Walt is dead and no one knows what specifically he would do or like. IMO, If Walt would have been a younger man when WDW opened we would have never seen another theme park from him. He was into urban planning, see EPCOT, and would have probably sunk everything into creating that utopia next.
Totally agree! :thumbsup2

RE: Universal, I like all the things you don't.:rotfl:
Somebody has to! :rotfl2:

But basically I want all of the Parks to be the best they can be because that benefits me.
Again with the totally agree.

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

Next time, please write in haiku. Thank you.

:earsboy:

Walt dreamt in color.
Believed a story was key.
Imagination.

Better? :cool1:

pirate:

[WDSearcher]

Walt dreamt in color.
Believed a story was key.
Imagination.

Better? :cool1:

pirate:
Perfect.

:earsboy:

[MCO737FO]

WDS you have a very balanced sensible view about all this, unlike those that choose to moan and cry about how it's now the way it used to be.

I find this odd, if it's that bad and you don't enjoy it - don't go back and that's that. Show them take your money somewhere you will enjoy. It appears that many here are on a mission to lambast anything & everything and they must get get some sort of enjoyment about nit picking. Sensible people who don't like something, move on to what does suit them.

Wow - How foolish of me! I'm a sensible person who took time to express thoughts and observations relating something we all seem to have some level of interest in....How un-sensible of me! What a fool I am!

Are you really that intolerant that you cannot hear a different opinon or view, or just narrowminded?

After you remove the happy ears and inject the truth serum, go ahead and tell me that your Disney experience is equal to, or greater than it was 5-10 years ago. Seriously. I am a tolerant person, and you may say that your experience is better, which is clearly subjective, and I appreciate and respect your opinion (without deeming you sensible or unsensible).

I also speak for several people that I converse with each week. I'm an airline pilot. I am based out of Orlando. I have the privilege of speaking with folks each week in the airport, and I love to hear about theme park adventures, and great times. I want people to have a great time. I need people to have a great time. It is good for my livelihood. Hell I own a home in a town that Disney developed. For years I never heard an ill-word towards Disney. I will tell you now that I hear more and more people complain about high prices and a diminished experience at the end of their vacation. This is reality. You call it unsensible. I call it exposing a farce that I hope a groundswell can overcome. I know that Disney managment monitors this and other boards. I have been told this by people who know. This is the only reason I am here. I don't have time for pro-bono work, and I have no interest in following web blogs unless it is one that tells me how to be healthier, fly an airplane better, or make more money.

But again, I am not sensible.

Please tell me you are upper-management at WDW - I'll understand your comment much better.

Keep flying!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Wow - How foolish of me! I'm a sensible person who took time to express thoughts and observations relating something we all seem to have some level of interest in....How un-sensible of me! What a fool I am!

Are you really that intolerant that you cannot hear a different opinon or view, or just narrowminded?

After you remove the happy ears and inject the truth serum, go ahead and tell me that your Disney experience is equal to, or greater than it was 5-10 years ago. Seriously. I am a tolerant person, and you may say that your experience is better, which is clearly subjective, and I appreciate and respect your opinion (without deeming you sensible or unsensible).

I also speak for several people that I converse with each week. I'm an airline pilot. I am based out of Orlando. I have the privilege of speaking with folks each week in the airport, and I love to hear about theme park adventures, and great times. I want people to have a great time. I need people to have a great time. It is good for my livelihood. Hell I own a home in a town that Disney developed. For years I never heard an ill-word towards Disney. I will tell you now that I hear more and more people complain about high prices and a diminished experience at the end of their vacation. This is reality. You call it unsensible. I call it exposing a farce that I hope a groundswell can overcome. I know that Disney managment monitors this and other boards. I have been told this by people who know. This is the only reason I am here. I don't have time for pro-bono work, and I have no interest in following web blogs unless it is one that tells me how to be healthier, fly an airplane better, or make more money.

But again, I am not sensible.

Please tell me you are upper-management at WDW - I'll understand your comment much better.

Keep flying!




Perhaps people are hoping for the "Royal Caribbean" treatment. I saw this in USA Today this morning.


Is Royal Caribbean manipulating message boards at cruise websites?


Can you trust what you read about Royal Caribbean at online message boards?

That's the question some vacationers are asking this week in the wake of stories suggesting the cruise operator has been manipulating online discussions for more than a year.

Veteran industry watcher Anita Dunham-Potter of ExpertCruiser.com first broke the story last week, reporting that Royal Caribbean has been rewarding a small group of fans who post positive comments about the line at sites such as Cruise Critic with free cruises and other perks.

Dunham-Potter's story, which since has been followed by several blogs and news outlets including The Consumerist, notes that the group -- called the Royal Champions -- has been active since 2007.

Dunham-Potter cites a talk by a Royal Caribbean executive at a recent marketing conference in which the executive touted the subversive nature of the effort.


"The key to success in viral marketing is to subtly influence the influencers without them overtly realizing they are being influenced," Royal Caribbean's manager for loyalty marketing, Rachel Hannock, told the audience, according to a blog on loyalty marketing written by the Customer Insight Group.

The Customer Insight Group blog quotes Hannock as saying the Royal Champions "are regularly leveraged for ongoing marketing initiatives" and "produce ample word of mouth and exert sufficient influence to make the investment worthwhile."

The blog also quotes Hannock as saying online posts from Royal Champions "are carefully monitored during events and on a regular basis to ensure that posts remain positive and frequent."

In an interview with USA TODAY this week, Royal Caribbean associate vice president Bill Hayden acknowledged that the Royal Champions exist and have been getting perks from the line including invitations to free, two-night preview cruises. But he strongly denies that Royal Caribbean has asked them to talk up the line at online sites in return.

In short, he says, there's no quid pro quo. Hannock's comments at the conference were "a poor choice of words . . . we have never in any way indicated what they should write."

While Hayden says it's true Royal Caribbean has kept an eye on what the Royal Champions are posting at online sites, it's only so that the line can get feedback on how it's doing. In that sense, he says, the Royal Champions are like a focus group.

Hayden says the Royal Champions, of which there currently are about 75, were chosen because they were highly active posters at Cruise Critic and a few other sites and passionate about cruising. So far they have been invited on two short free cruises, and clearly the line expected that they would post about the experiences at Cruise Critic and elsewhere. But Hayden stresses they were free to write whatever they felt about the ships, good or bad. No Royal Champion has been asked to leave the program because he or she was too negative in posts, he adds.

Hayden also says the line never meant the program to be secretive. Indeed, Cruise Critic was aware of the program, he says, as Royal Caribbean had gotten the site's help early on to track down Cruise Critic members that the line wanted to invite into the group.

[MercyMe]

March 25, 2009 Master sommelier John Blazon among those in Walt Disney World layoffs; v.p. Rosemary Rose gone too

"John Blazon, who spearheaded Walt Disney World's drive to have more wine-savvy restaurant workers on staff than any other company in the world, is among those laid off by the company this week.

Blazon is one of the area's four master sommeliers, the pinnacle of wine experts certified by the Court of Master Sommeliers. There are only 100 master sommeliers in the United States and North America.

Blazon had been with the company 13 years, beginning as general manager at Victoria & Albert's. He symbolically ended his tenure with the company today by choosing to hand over the "keys to the World" at the Grand Floridian. "Thirteen years was a good run," he told me today. "I'm leaving in a good place; it's a good thing."

After moving from Victoria & Albert's to open Citricos, Blazon began to develop the company's wine program, which had the ambitious goal of educating any restaurant server who wished to learn more about wine. Ironically, the introductory course and test were conducted by Blazon and other master sommeliers at California Grill earlier this week. With the number of cast members who passed the test on Tuesday, Blazon says a total of 750 cast members had reached that goal over the years. He did not know how many of those were still with the company, but several have gone on to strive for higher certification.

Also in this week's layoffs is Rosemary Rose, vice president of food and beverage and merchandise.

"It's going to be a much different company," Blazon said. But he added he hopes they will continue to offer the wine education programs.

Among Blazon's accomplishmenst was the wine cellar at Jiko --The Cooking Place, which boasts the largest collection of South African wines in North America, and the more recently opened Wave, which features a wine list made up almost entirely of wines with Stelvin, or screwcap, closures, a popular feature among conservationists."

[PatriciaH]

Yes, whole teams were let go yesterday- many in resorts and guest services in the parks. Very sad. Today marketing hears.

[Backstage_Gal]

FYI, I heard that Rosemary Rose got a great offer at another compan, so not related to layoffs.

Hubby and I both survived :worship:

[cmash95]

while the timing of the reorginizing stinks, it was way past due. Look at what has been going on all over the company since iger came in. First he reworked the movie studios, then he moved to abc and the music labels. etc. EVery company under the disney umbrella has been redone but the parks. It's just bad timing. Eisner was famous for rewarding his minions with " managment" titles and the number of managers in the parks division has swelled. too many layers of people having to sign off on a project, no wonder little gets done. of course there are some park vp's i would love to see get a pink slip as well as a certain president or two

[WDSearcher]

FYI, I heard that Rosemary Rose got a great offer at another compan, so not related to layoffs.

Hubby and I both survived :worship:
Congrats! :cheer2:

True, re: Rosemary Rose. She resigned and will be going to work in the education sector.

:earsboy:

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Disney has carefully gone through each division this quarter. ABC apparently was one of the first. They were ruthless there - DH survived his first (hopefully his last) buyout letter so we are not at all surprised it has moved to other areas under Disney's umbrella.

Not to say this will continue.....but if this next quarter is not strong....who will be next? How will this affect fellow castmembers who remain?

ABC folks struggle to cover stories now - conversations sound like this....Hey, let's let "______" cover this....he's right there......he's cheep.............he was laid off last month. Silence.

All of those laid off are people - with families - lives - dreams - little league or bridge clubs to face. My heart goes out to each of them.

It's emotionally tough for those left behind too.

I said this somewhere else......lets put together a commitment to "be kind to your castmember". What do you think? Take some time on your next trip to our magic place to give back a little magic to the castmembers - make them smile! They need a little pat on the back right now.

[CanadianGuy]

It's happening all over ...

Here in Canada, my Walt Disney Pictures contact for marketing & publicity was just 'restructured '.....

Too bad she was a great employee and a wonderful person to work with.

Knox

[Backstage_Gal]

We lost a lot of people here in Orlando this week. The paper said one estimate was 450, I think that may be low. It's very said, people I knew, that have been with Disney for many years. Thankfully DH and I survived. :worship: DH's area of responsibilty has trippled, spanning 1/3 of the property. He is in Horticulture, so that involves a lot of travel. I am in Finance. We are still waiting to hear how the new segment and Liine of Business organizations will be working and hen align how to best support them. We shall see ....

[DisDreaminMom]

popcorn:: I think I found the thread with the smart people on it. Airline Pilot guy and all the CM's, you are so interesting. Sorry for everyone who lost jobs. Stupid economy.:sad2:

[WDSearcher]

We lost a lot of people here in Orlando this week. The paper said one estimate was 450, I think that may be low. It's very said, people I knew, that have been with Disney for many years. Thankfully DH and I survived. :worship: DH's area of responsibilty has trippled, spanning 1/3 of the property. He is in Horticulture, so that involves a lot of travel. I am in Finance. We are still waiting to hear how the new segment and Liine of Business organizations will be working and hen align how to best support them. We shall see ....
I think 450 might be a bit high. In my area, there were a lot of people who were redeployed, offered TAs (temp assignments) and even offered demotions, in lieu of their current jobs. Pretty much everyone took the offers. The number actually jobless was less than I'd expected. I think numbers like 450 may refer to the number of roles cut, but not necessarily people. All the Cast Services jobs were eliminated, for example, but most of the people were redeployed elsewhere. Not true in every area of course, and still ... even if it's "only" 375 or 400 instead of 450, that's still a lot of people out of work. But it's hard putting a firm number on it, because you dont' know if they're talking roles or people.

:earsboy:

[Mouseaholic!!!]

ABC's buyouts included entire departments - staff re-hired as contract labor......ie: less $$$ and no benefits.

DH survived his first buyout letter. It was horribly stressful and heartbreaking as he watched those who did not.

I'm thrilled to see those here who are still employed and I wish I had the right words of sympathy for those who did not.

These are truly challenging times to have a mouse on your paycheck.

Good luck to all!

[Peter Pirate 2]

ABC's buyouts included entire departments - staff re-hired as contract labor......ie: less $$$ and no benefits.

DH survived his first buyout letter. It was horribly stressful and heartbreaking as he watched those who did not.

I'm thrilled to see those here who are still employed and I wish I had the right words of sympathy for those who did not.

These are truly challenging times to have a mouse on your paycheck.

Good luck to all!

You'd like to think the 'mouse on your paycheck' would actually mean something ... But sadly for you folks it means nothing more that a Walmart or Home Depot symbol.:sad2:

How a mighty, one of a kind, model corporation could fall so far is simply unacceptable. The BOD and past BOD's should be personally ashamed of themselves for their utter transgressions.

Iger's a slug.
pirate:

[scooter15]

They just started out here at Disneyland from what the paper reported. Friends of mine that work there are so stressed because they've heard that it won't end mid april as it was rumored. Apparently they will continue as the company sees fit. Really sucks because my friends are so busy with work on a normal basis and its not like their role is actually going to go away...just added to someone else's plate and more work for those that have remained.

[WDSearcher]

You'd like to think the 'mouse on your paycheck' would actually mean something ... But sadly for you folks it means nothing more that a Walmart or Home Depot symbol.:sad2:

How a mighty, one of a kind, model corporation could fall so far is simply unacceptable. The BOD and past BOD's should be personally ashamed of themselves for their utter transgressions.

Iger's a slug.
pirate:
That's not fair. The 'mouse on your paycheck' (actually, there isn't a mouse anywhere on the paycheck, particularly at ABC, where there's an ABC on your paycheck, but that's neither here nor there) means a lot. But even the mouse (nor Iger the slug) can stop some things from happening. When the housing market goes bust and the automakers flip upside-down, and a large amount of TV ad revenues come from real estate and auto companies, it's not like ABC can just turn around and say, "OK ... let's get those millions in ad dollars from ... travel companies!" Um ... no. How about mass market retailers! Hmm ... they're down too. Microsoft! Nope ... laying off.

This exact same thing -- recession, layoffs, financial crisis, etc -- happened in the late 80s and no one was slamming the BOD for laying people off. Of course ... the internet didn't really exist then and so no one really knew. There were no blogs of people reporting how all their friends were let go. After 9/11 when all sorts of jobs were cut, no one suggested that the BOD was to blame and that they should all lose their bonuses so that the line workers could stay on. And no one now is even suggesting that perhaps the union workers -- who are guaranteed hours and jobs and benefits by their contracts -- could maybe take a concession or two to help keep non-union managers at work. Nope. It's all Iger's fault. What a cop-out. Blame the guy on top and don't even consider that maybe there are a lot of other reasons why this is happening and that maybe a lot of those "utter transgressions" happened in administrations he wasn't even responsible for and is trying to fix. It's like the Republicans who are currently blaming Pres. Obama for the financial crisis while conveniently forgetting that it was 8 years of Republican admin that helped cause it.

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

It's no cop out and if you've reead my recent posts here you'll see I'm not blaming it all on Iger (the slug) but rather saying he is bringing nothing (has brought nothing) that "Disney" needs to the table. If he were the Walmart CEO we wouldn't be having this conversation because I expect nothing more than that money grubbing MBA BS attitude from the likes of them and their ilk. I still see Disney as different and I guess I shouldn't.:sick:

I understand that no one was ready for this breakdown in the economy but for goodness sakes what were these BOD's doing?:confused3 I'll tell you, they were taking profits, reducing business plans to quarterly number crunching and doing absolutely nothing to solidify their position for the bad times that are always sure to come. It's not just Disney that dropped the ball to be sure but Disney was in a place where they could have saved for a rainy day (as I was taught as a Kid) but Eisner and Iger and more importantly the lame BOD's who saw no profit in REAL long term strategic planning.

Iger's a slug.
pirate:

[CentFLCruiser]

We lost a lot of people here in Orlando this week. The paper said one estimate was 450, I think that may be low. It's very said, people I knew, that have been with Disney for many years. Thankfully DH and I survived. :worship: DH's area of responsibilty has trippled, spanning 1/3 of the property. He is in Horticulture, so that involves a lot of travel. I am in Finance. We are still waiting to hear how the new segment and Liine of Business organizations will be working and hen align how to best support them. We shall see ....
Backstage Gal;
I'm glad you and your husband both survived the cuts! I know several people in Finance (my old area) who were hit and some of the cuts were very surprising. My area was just done Friday and I'm glad I'm still here, but feel so badly for those who didn't make it.
Best of luck to you!

[WDSearcher]

It's no cop out and if you've reead my recent posts here you'll see I'm not blaming it all on Iger (the slug) but rather saying he is bringing nothing (has brought nothing) that "Disney" needs to the table. If he were the Walmart CEO we wouldn't be having this conversation because I expect nothing more than that money grubbing MBA BS attitude from the likes of them and their ilk. I still see Disney as different and I guess I shouldn't.:sick:

I understand that no one was ready for this breakdown in the economy but for goodness sakes what were these BOD's doing?:confused3 I'll tell you, they were taking profits, reducing business plans to quarterly number crunching and doing absolutely nothing to solidify their position for the bad times that are always sure to come. It's not just Disney that dropped the ball to be sure but Disney was in a place where they could have saved for a rainy day (as I was taught as a Kid) but Eisner and Iger and more importantly the lame BOD's who saw no profit in REAL long term strategic planning.

Iger's a slug.
pirate:
Yeah, well calling him Iger (the slug) every time you refer to him certainly doesn't help you look like an objective poster. Sorry.

:earsboy:

[Peter Pirate 2]

Yeah, well calling him Iger (the slug) every time you refer to him certainly doesn't help you look like an objective poster. Sorry.

:earsboy:

Well, I'm not trying to sound like an objective poster. I'm a pissed off fan of what Disney stood for once upon a time. I have no desire to be confused with some fanboy who thinks it's OK for Disney to emulate the Walmart's of the world because they can sell garbage to the masses and because the wall st. quarterly numbers must be made. I'd prefer they stick to producing and selling QUALITY for the going rate that it will fetch. Pixar proved it can still be done in today's world.

Disney used to stand for something and so did Disney fans. Iger (the slug) is no Disney fan I can tell you that and I'm sorry that my little joke doesn't amuse you...It does me.:dance3:
pirate:

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Well, I'm not trying to sound like an objective poster. I'm a pissed off fan of what Disney stood for once upon a time. I have no desire to be confused with some fanboy who thinks it's OK for Disney to emulate the Walmart's of the world because they can sell garbage to the masses and because the wall st. quarterly numbers must be made. I'd prefer they stick to producing and selling QUALITY for the going rate that it will fetch. Pixar proved it can still be done in today's world.

Disney used to stand for something and so did Disney fans. Iger (the slug) is no Disney fan I can tell you that and I'm sorry that my little joke doesn't amuse you...It does me.:dance3:
pirate:


DH and I agree with your assessment about Disney and am not at all ashamed to share your opinion.

There are those who do not share our opinions and that is OK....I even envy their ability to look the other way when areas no longer are up to Disney standards.

What rubs me about Iger is he took a tidy little bonus at the end of 2008 -- just before he began to lay off Disney staff. Oh well, he must be one of the "entitled".

[DisDreaminMom]

Unexplored but quickly mentioned item of interest: What part do the unions play in the layoffs of WDW and DLR CM's and would it be foreseeable in the future to have only Characters, entertainers, and Mousekeeping and no body else to work any other roles?...

[Mouseaholic!!!]

That's not fair. The 'mouse on your paycheck' (actually, there isn't a mouse anywhere on the paycheck, particularly at ABC, where there's an ABC on your paycheck, but that's neither here nor there) means a lot. But even the mouse (nor Iger the slug) can stop some things from happening. When the housing market goes bust and the automakers flip upside-down, and a large amount of TV ad revenues come from real estate and auto companies, it's not like ABC can just turn around and say, "OK ... let's get those millions in ad dollars from ... travel companies!" Um ... no. How about mass market retailers! Hmm ... they're down too. Microsoft! Nope ... laying off.

This exact same thing -- recession, layoffs, financial crisis, etc -- happened in the late 80s and no one was slamming the BOD for laying people off. Of course ... the internet didn't really exist then and so no one really knew. There were no blogs of people reporting how all their friends were let go. After 9/11 when all sorts of jobs were cut, no one suggested that the BOD was to blame and that they should all lose their bonuses so that the line workers could stay on. And no one now is even suggesting that perhaps the union workers -- who are guaranteed hours and jobs and benefits by their contracts -- could maybe take a concession or two to help keep non-union managers at work. Nope. It's all Iger's fault. What a cop-out. Blame the guy on top and don't even consider that maybe there are a lot of other reasons why this is happening and that maybe a lot of those "utter transgressions" happened in administrations he wasn't even responsible for and is trying to fix. It's like the Republicans who are currently blaming Pres. Obama for the financial crisis while conveniently forgetting that it was 8 years of Republican admin that helped cause it.

:earsboy:


I beg to differ....there is indeed a Mickey Mouse on my husband's pay stub.

Hey - lets be fair. All along I have said things were going to be very tough for disney and castmembers in this economy and I got flamed here....called a liar.....etc. Now,as it turns out....I happen to have been correct.

I'm sorry if you disagree...but I'll say it again....it offends me that Mr. Iger (aka: the slug to Mr. Pirate) took a very nice year-end bonus.....weeks before he authorized very painful staff cuts.

It's all about a bad economy.....and Disney does not have enough Pixie Dust to be immune from the problems.

Flame me now...but mark my words.......in a few months these boards will have threads about the Parks and Resorts suffering from the changes being made now. People are returning and saying it did not live up to it's reputation......I hear it all the time (being a disney nut, people feel compelled to share their good and bad stories about trips).


I'm not saying you are not objective...but hey.....are you hoping for a touch of the "Royal Caribbean" treatment? Personally, I think Castaway Cay is THE BEST private island in the business!



....from a recent USA Today article.....



Is Royal Caribbean manipulating message boards at cruise websites?


Can you trust what you read about Royal Caribbean at online message boards?

That's the question some vacationers are asking this week in the wake of stories suggesting the cruise operator has been manipulating online discussions for more than a year.

Veteran industry watcher Anita Dunham-Potter of ExpertCruiser.com first broke the story last week, reporting that Royal Caribbean has been rewarding a small group of fans who post positive comments about the line at sites such as Cruise Critic with free cruises and other perks.

Dunham-Potter's story, which since has been followed by several blogs and news outlets including The Consumerist, notes that the group -- called the Royal Champions -- has been active since 2007.

Dunham-Potter cites a talk by a Royal Caribbean executive at a recent marketing conference in which the executive touted the subversive nature of the effort.


"The key to success in viral marketing is to subtly influence the influencers without them overtly realizing they are being influenced," Royal Caribbean's manager for loyalty marketing, Rachel Hannock, told the audience, according to a blog on loyalty marketing written by the Customer Insight Group.

The Customer Insight Group blog quotes Hannock as saying the Royal Champions "are regularly leveraged for ongoing marketing initiatives" and "produce ample word of mouth and exert sufficient influence to make the investment worthwhile."

The blog also quotes Hannock as saying online posts from Royal Champions "are carefully monitored during events and on a regular basis to ensure that posts remain positive and frequent."

In an interview with USA TODAY this week, Royal Caribbean associate vice president Bill Hayden acknowledged that the Royal Champions exist and have been getting perks from the line including invitations to free, two-night preview cruises. But he strongly denies that Royal Caribbean has asked them to talk up the line at online sites in return.

In short, he says, there's no quid pro quo. Hannock's comments at the conference were "a poor choice of words . . . we have never in any way indicated what they should write."

While Hayden says it's true Royal Caribbean has kept an eye on what the Royal Champions are posting at online sites, it's only so that the line can get feedback on how it's doing. In that sense, he says, the Royal Champions are like a focus group.

Hayden says the Royal Champions, of which there currently are about 75, were chosen because they were highly active posters at Cruise Critic and a few other sites and passionate about cruising. So far they have been invited on two short free cruises, and clearly the line expected that they would post about the experiences at Cruise Critic and elsewhere. But Hayden stresses they were free to write whatever they felt about the ships, good or bad. No Royal Champion has been asked to leave the program because he or she was too negative in posts, he adds.

Hayden also says the line never meant the program to be secretive. Indeed, Cruise Critic was aware of the program, he says, as Royal Caribbean had gotten the site's help early on to track down Cruise Critic members that the line wanted to invite into the group.

[just another guy]

I know of a couple food and beverage management positions that had been deleted. Maye thats the wrong word. I'll just say certain locations from from having X numbers of managers on the payroll to having X-1 number of managers. I feel sorry for them. Image being 1 of 4 managers, and now being 1 of 3. Your work load just increased 8%, you will have longer hours, and clearly no pay increase.

[IMACM]

They arrived in the reservation centers today with a vengance(sp) and rumor is they will be back tomorrow!!!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

They arrived in the reservation centers today with a vengance(sp) and rumor is they will be back tomorrow!!!


Oh no - that's the first dose of Pixie Dust many new Disney guests experience.....now they will experience hold music.