DVC Kiosk Sales Misinformation!!

[Sammie]

I have to share this. This past week, I was waiting for a friend at a location on Disney property and happened to be standing near enough to a Disney DVC sales desk to over hear the conversation from someone asking questions and the agent on duty.

Many times lately some of our members here have questioned why in the world would anyone think that things with DVC will never change, point allocation comes to mind and at times seem to think that some members just don't have any idea what DVC is truly about.

Maybe many have gotten sales agents like this one.

He told the person he was talking to that, you can book any where and any time without any problems as close as 2 weeks before you arrive. :scared1:

The person was interested in staying at the Grand Floridian on points, reply from agent: no problem and it will cost you nothing to do this.

Did they remove the $95 fee last week while I was away???:confused3

He told him that the number of points he would need to stay in a 2 bedroom unit at AKL for a specific week will never change.

So you can see why people who bought a certain number of points to vacation a specific time period for Sun-Thursday were upset when what their agent sold them was not true.

He told him that if he wanted a specific view such as MK view at Bay Lake, NO problem, just call and reserve it, it's as easy as booking a MK view at Grand Floridian with Disney Reservations and you will not have any problems doing this whenever you want.

I waited until the man left and approached the agent and ask about the $95 fee for booking the Grand Floridian and immediately he bristled up and said, "Obviously you are already a member and if you have quesitons, call your own agent" and turned his back to me and walked away.

Welcome to the new DVC and some wonder why we want it back the way it was. :headache:

[CarolA]

I have to share this. This past week, I was waiting for a friend at a location on Disney property and happened to be standing near enough to a Disney DVC sales desk to over hear the conversation from someone asking questions and the agent on duty.

Many times lately some of our members here have questioned why in the world would anyone think that things with DVC will never change, point allocation comes to mind and at times seem to think that some members just don't have any idea what DVC is truly about.

Maybe many have gotten sales agents like this one.

He told the person he was talking to that, you can book any where and any time without any problems as close as 2 weeks before you arrive. :scared1:

The person was interested in staying at the Grand Floridian on points, reply from agent: no problem and it will cost you nothing to do this.

Did they remove the $95 fee last week while I was away???:confused3

He told him that the number of points he would need to stay in a 2 bedroom unit at AKL for a specific week will never change.

So you can see why people who bought a certain number of points to vacation a specific time period for Sun-Thursday were upset when what their agent sold them was not true.

He told him that if he wanted a specific view such as MK view at Bay Lake, NO problem, just call and reserve it, it's as easy as booking a MK view at Grand Floridian with Disney Reservations and you will not have any problems doing this whenever you want.

I waited until the man left and approached the agent and ask about the $95 fee for booking the Grand Floridian and immediately he bristled up and said, "Obviously you are already a member and if you have quesitons, call your own agent" and turned his back to me and walked away.

Welcome to the new DVC and some wonder why we want it back the way it was. :headache:



Those aren't really the sales people, those are the "drafters" Seriously you seem way to worked up about this.... If the "guide" had said all of this I would be more worked up, but... these folks are just kind of trained to be nice and corral guests to come visit! They are NOT trained on all the ins and outs of the program.



This is NOT the sales pitch and you can't buy from these folks! If you or anyone else buys without READING the stuff Disney gives you at the sales pitch then... I have no pity! I read it. I then went and bought resale, but I knew a lot of exchanges etc. from reading!
And I remember the one who got me to the tour told me some strange things, but the guide quickly corrected them. So how long ago did the"old" DVC exist. Must have been at least 15 years ago when all they had was OKW! (My first CM told me that you couldn't buy resale at all, Disney bought them all back LOL! Of course in his defense would you EXPECT Disney to train on "how to sell the competetion" LOL!)

I think that perhaps the way to handle this instead of trying to prove the guy wrong might have been to contact DVC and mention it. It's not really our place to train (especially since I see some highly questionalble info on here every now and then!)

[oakmanner]

My experiance was that the cast members (not guides) that work at the DVC kiosks through out propertys sole purpose is to book guests to take the official tour at the Sales Center. When we bought we originally visited the mock up on the BoardWalk.

The cast member answered very basic questions but reccommended asking our more specific questions to one of the guides at the Sales Center.

I don't doubt what you overheard this cast member say but as PP said he/she was probably new and not very well trained.

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

I don't think that it matters whether they are "drafters" or not. This gent, and possibly others, are misrepresenting DVC. They should be trained to such a level that they are not out there ignorant of the program (or simply lying to folks). It's not "rocket science" - they should be able to accurately answer questions and get people over to SSR for "the talk."

It's a thin excuse to simply state that they are only "drafters."

[kristenrice]

I asked a "kiosk attendant" a question about the exchanges. When he tried to set up a tour for me, I politely declined. I told him that we are only planning on doing big vacations every 2 years and we could not afford the 160 point minimum through Disney anyways. I told him that 100 points was our limit and we were contemplating a resale. He said, "Well, it does not matter who you buy it from, you still have to buy at least 160 points to get in the system." I knew better, so I thanked him for his time and left.

We are now proud owners of a 100 point resale at AKV!:banana:

[disneymotherof3]

I don't think that it matters whether they are "drafters" or not. This gent, and possibly others, are misrepresenting DVC. They should be trained to such a level that they are not out there ignorant of the program (or simply lying to folks). It's not "rocket science" - they should be able to accurately answer questions and get people over to SSR for "the talk."

It's a thin excuse to simply state that they are only "drafters."

I totally agree. If people are getting wrong information, and then buy in just to find out that what they were originally told was NOT true, then that will give them a "bad taste" about DVC.

[Deb & Bill]

I agree with you, Sammie. How often do we see posts here from either new members or people who are considering purchasing DVC and they have totally incorrect information. It would be much better for the "drafters" to give vague information rather than totally false information. I heard a salesperson at a model tell a guest that the sleeper sofa in the studio would be a queen sized bed.

What's so bad about giving true information?

[KAT4DISNEY]

Those aren't really the sales people, those are the "drafters" Seriously you seem way to worked up about this.... If the "guide" had said all of this I would be more worked up, but... these folks are just kind of trained to be nice and corral guests to come visit! They are NOT trained on all the ins and outs of the program.



This is NOT the sales pitch and you can't buy from these folks! If you or anyone else buys without READING the stuff Disney gives you at the sales pitch then... I have no pity! I read it. I then went and bought resale, but I knew a lot of exchanges etc. from reading!
And I remember the one who got me to the tour told me some strange things, but the guide quickly corrected them. So how long ago did the"old" DVC exist. Must have been at least 15 years ago when all they had was OKW! (My first CM told me that you couldn't buy resale at all, Disney bought them all back LOL! Of course in his defense would you EXPECT Disney to train on "how to sell the competetion" LOL!)

I think that perhaps the way to handle this instead of trying to prove the guy wrong might have been to contact DVC and mention it. It's not really our place to train (especially since I see some highly questionalble info on here every now and then!)

Whether they are drafters or sales people (ie, guides) makes no difference from the fact that they are representing DVC and are working to get people to buy. The information should be correct or it is misleading - and in this case it was completely false.

And of course people should read the offering before signing and not just take someones word, but that should not be the point that they have to learn that everything they were told in the sales experience was incorrect.

[Entropy]

Those aren't really the sales people, those are the "drafters" Seriously you seem way to worked up about this.... If the "guide" had said all of this I would be more worked up, but... these folks are just kind of trained to be nice and corral guests to come visit! They are NOT trained on all the ins and outs of the program.



This is NOT the sales pitch and you can't buy from these folks! If you or anyone else buys without READING the stuff Disney gives you at the sales pitch then... I have no pity! I read it. I then went and bought resale, but I knew a lot of exchanges etc. from reading!
And I remember the one who got me to the tour told me some strange things, but the guide quickly corrected them. So how long ago did the"old" DVC exist. Must have been at least 15 years ago when all they had was OKW! (My first CM told me that you couldn't buy resale at all, Disney bought them all back LOL! Of course in his defense would you EXPECT Disney to train on "how to sell the competetion" LOL!)

I think that perhaps the way to handle this instead of trying to prove the guy wrong might have been to contact DVC and mention it. It's not really our place to train (especially since I see some highly questionalble info on here every now and then!)

Are you kidding us?
You're defending the sleazy tactic of having the "drafters" say whatever they want in order to get the mark...er...future member to buy a DVC contract?

If the drafter can answer the question, by all means answer it, if not tell them but lying to the guest to get them interested is just reprehensible.

Do you tolerate this where you work?

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

Are you kidding us?
You're defending the sleazy tactic of having the "drafters" say whatever they want in order to get the mark...er...future member to buy a DVC contract?

If the drafter can answer the question, by all means answer it, if not tell them but lying to the guest to get them interested is just reprehensible.

Do you tolerate this where you work?

popcorn:: popcorn:: popcorn::

[Dean]

LOL, they are essentially OPC's (Off Premises Contacts). They are 3-4 notches below a timeshare salesperson in the sales process. Their job, which Disney encourages them to do poorly, is to schedule timeshare tours. They are not trained very much on the product itself, only the basics. Anyone would be a fool to buy based on what they say or even put any credence to it. To put any emphasis on what they say, even if wrong, is hilarious. In NO way does this excuse one's personal assumptions or lack of understanding of the product one bought, even if the guide said it, much less an OPC. One thing I think DVC members in general don't do well is separate out the sales process and usage product, they really are two separate issues.

[Muushka]

Unless these OPC's state up front that they have not been properly trained and that the customer would be a fool to buy the TS based on what they say, then what they are doing is just plain wrong.

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

Anyone would be a fool to buy based on what they say or even put any credence to it.

Soooooo, what you're saying is that not only should we doubt what they tell us, but that we should also not believe a word they are saying?:rolleyes1 :rolleyes1

[puntagordabob]

call your own agent" and turned his back to me and walked away.

LOL the person was lucky you didnt call your agent and make a complaint about the kiosk person... something tells me that they frown on this extreme form of misinformation

[anna08]

I think this is a horrible practice, and I would think the guides would also want the accurate info relayed, as they would look bad having to contradict what the kiosk people say. Dishonesty and/or misinformation may be sales tactics for some, but I venture to say that I would fire an employee for it. I guess I'm just old-fashioned.

[Simba's Mom]

LOL the person was lucky you didnt call your agent and make a complaint about the kiosk person... something tells me that they frown on this extreme form of misinformation

Yes,his attitude suggests that he knew he'd been caught lying. And it doesn't look good for any company when their salesmen knowingly lie. And perhaps it's true that the kiosk people aren't expected to be as knowledgeable as the guides,but then they should admit they don't know rather than lie!

[disneynutz]

The Advance Sales Associates are a dime a dozen and they are paid based upon their tour referrals. They are not licensed real estate agents so legally their information is not binding.

The Guides are licensed agents so they have to be more careful about what they say and do.

[Tara]

I'm pretty much with CarolA on this - I think it's a bit like trusting your bus driver if she or he tells you that sure, no problem getting into Cinderella's Royal Table as a walk-up. ;) For all we know, the guy thought he was telling the truth - they don't get significant training on how DVC works. (AFAIK - does anyone have information to the contrary?) He's probably gleaned just enough information to make him "dangerous." I suspect he clammed up and referred the OP to his guide not because he'd been caught lying, but because his ego was bruised when he realized his cobbled-together "knowledge" was being questioned and he was no longer in the position of playing the expert.

[CarolAnnC]

I'm pretty much with CarolA on this - I think it's a bit like trusting your bus driver if she or he tells you that sure, no problem getting into Cinderella's Royal Table as a walk-up. ;) For all we know, the guy thought he was telling the truth - they don't get significant training on how DVC works. (AFAIK - does anyone have information to the contrary?) He's probably gleaned just enough information to make him "dangerous." I suspect he clammed up and referred the OP to his guide not because he'd been caught lying, but because his ego was bruised when he realized his cobbled-together "knowledge" was being questioned and he was no longer in the position of playing the expert.

Or the boat captains who insisted that the monorail would be running right through the Swan and Dolphin! :thumbsup2

I see a cast member who was embellishing and perhaps going overboard to book his appointments and make quota. Is it right? No.. Should he be tarred and feathered? Nope, not here anyway, LOL!

[Tara]

Or the boat captains who insisted that the monorail would be running right through the Swan and Dolphin! :thumbsup2


:rotfl2: I almost used that example, too!

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm pretty much with CarolA on this - I think it's a bit like trusting your bus driver if she or he tells you that sure, no problem getting into Cinderella's Royal Table as a walk-up. ;) For all we know, the guy thought he was telling the truth - they don't get significant training on how DVC works. (AFAIK - does anyone have information to the contrary?) He's probably gleaned just enough information to make him "dangerous." I suspect he clammed up and referred the OP to his guide not because he'd been caught lying, but because his ego was bruised when he realized his cobbled-together "knowledge" was being questioned and he was no longer in the position of playing the expert.


LOL - I think the more comparable is if the bus driver didn't know that BWV was by Epcot, or GF only had one bus stop. Is that still acceptable?

I think it's ok to want better, and by not you may pay for it yourself down the line. It's an example of why timeshares are so distrusted - misleading information and sleazy sales tactics. The sales attempt is already starting at the kiosk - it just hasn't been legally formalized.

It's also a perfect reminder to everyone to double and triple check information.

[klofan]

The guy at DTD who setup my tour was just rude. I'm 20, so I guess he assumed I was too young to buy. In other words, my low paying job. He's like, "do you even know anything about DVC?" Then, "how can you afford this, your so young?" Really wasn't a good impression on DVC already and I haven't even started the tour yet. And yes, I'm young, but I do pretty decent believe it or not. Then, I'm sure it was a mistake, but we were scheduled to go on the DVC tour at a certain time, then we waited. And waited. Well, he scheduled it like 2 hours earlier than he told me. Oh, well. I ended up buying.

Pete

[bookwormde]

The real problem is that the person at the kiosk as an employee of Disney (owner of DVC development co) is not allowed under FL law to state facts that are not in line with the approved sales information.

There are no acceptable excuse or legal justifications for this, just as it was a violation when guides were telling prospective members that points would not change, it has nothing to do with buyer beware or reading the contract, it is just plain and simple a violation of the Florida timeshare regulations.

bookwormde

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

The real problem is that the person at the kiosk as an employee of Disney (owner of DVC development co) is not allowed under FL law to state facts that are not in line with the approved sales information.

There are no acceptable excuse or legal justifications for this, just as it was a violation when guides were telling prospective members that points would not change, it has nothing to do with buyer beware or reading the contract, it is just plain and simple a violation of the Florida timeshare regulations.

bookwormde

:thumbsup2

[granmanh603]

Well this person might have been a drafter but those are the same "fact" that I got from my guide when I bought in 2000. Easy to book any time, 350 points in Magic season would get you a 2 bedroom for lenght of contract would never change just the point distribution between weekday and weekend. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda..... we bought in May went to book a studio in July anywhere, found no availablity and huband went balistic and called guide....they amazinglly found us a room....and we have never waited to book again but we were definately told....no problem and this was way back in 2000 by my guide....while no one can know everything these "facts" are far from the truth...:goodvibes

[dianeschlicht]

LOL, they are essentially OPC's (Off Premises Contacts). They are 3-4 notches below a timeshare salesperson in the sales process. Their job, which Disney encourages them to do poorly, is to schedule timeshare tours. They are not trained very much on the product itself, only the basics. Anyone would be a fool to buy based on what they say or even put any credence to it. To put any emphasis on what they say, even if wrong, is hilarious. In NO way does this excuse one's personal assumptions or lack of understanding of the product one bought, even if the guide said it, much less an OPC. One thing I think DVC members in general don't do well is separate out the sales process and usage product, they really are two separate issues.

I agree with your evaluation, but I do think it is wrong of DVC to allow uninformed people at these kiosks. They are the "first impression" given to prospective buyers, and to give them sketchy or incorrect information can do NOTHING but hurt the eventual sales process.

[fers31]

I agree, this is very shady on Disney's part. This isn't a person driving a boat explaining monorails....this is this person's JOB. You're in a Disney park, this is a Disney employeee, doing his job. You expect the information to be correct. That's like having a food allergy, asking the cook if a specific meal contains this ingredient, they say it doesn't....and it does!!! I think you guys would be a little more upset with this "uninformed scenario." I understand that this isn't the person giving the tours, but they can't throw out complete lies to get a sale! These aren't used car salesmen....you're on Disney property. These are THEIR CMs that everyone respects. Completely unacceptable. This person is paid to understand how Disney works. You can't just blow it off by saying he's not trained for this. Of course he is. This is a large purchase for most people to think that being blatantly lied to is understandle, is completely insane!!!

[kristenrice]

I agree with your evaluation, but I do think it is wrong of DVC to allow uninformed people at these kiosks. They are the "first impression" given to prospective buyers, and to give them sketchy or incorrect information can do NOTHING but hurt the eventual sales process.

ITA!

If a kiosk staffer tells me that I can buy in for "about $10K" and I take the tour and find out that it is really "about $17K", who will I believe? I might think that the guide is trying to pull one over on me since the kiosk person gave me a substantially lower buy in amount. I would certainly be much more hesitant to trust my guide, even though he is the one that supposedly knows more about DVC.

It is one thing for the kiosk staff to be vague, but for them to give out information that is completely false is not acceptable. They say that "DVC sells itself" so why do they need people to lie about it to get folks interested? I would be a lot less interested if I discovered dishonesty to this degree in the sales process.

JMHO....

[CarolA]

You all do realize that we are only hearing ONE side of this story of an OVERHEARD converstation.......Lots of "quick to judge"

[JimMIA]

Yes,his attitude suggests that he knew he'd been caught lying. And it doesn't look good for any company when their salesmen knowingly lie. And perhaps it's true that the kiosk people aren't expected to be as knowledgeable as the guides,but then they should admit they don't know rather than lie!Yeah, I'm going with "embarrassed because he got lying through his teeth" as well. It's pretty obvious to me, from Sammie's description, that lack of integrity (not knowledge) was his problem.

Very disappointing but not surprising, and certainly not a positive reflection on either DVC or Disney.

[Disneypirate85]

"Drafters" or CM's does not matter, it still misrepresents DVC. When a potential new member hears these types of comments from someone at a Kiosk they believe it to be factual information. Very disturbing:sad2:

[Tara]

I agree, this is very shady on Disney's part. This isn't a person driving a boat explaining monorails....this is this person's JOB. You're in a Disney park, this is a Disney employeee, doing his job.

Is it their job to provide information about usage and other contract stipulations? I don't think so. I think their job is to book people to take tours.

To the OP, did you call the sales center to report the misinformation you overheard and the person giving that misinformation?

[marynvince]

You all do realize that we are only hearing ONE side of this story of an OVERHEARD converstation.......Lots of "quick to judge"

I don't think the OP is lieing to us. And yes, folks need to get their facts in line and be responsible for their own information and decisions. But come on....

Prospective cuistomers don't know and shouldn't know that kiosk CMs are 4 steps below guides, that their only job is to set up tours and any amount of misinformation to that end is OK. These CMs are Disney representatives. What they represent as fact will be seen as fact by prospective buyers. They need to be appropriately trained on what they can and can not say.

How anyone can argue this point or defend this CM in this situation is beyond me.

[Tara]

That's like having a food allergy, asking the cook if a specific meal contains this ingredient, they say it doesn't....and it does!!! I think you guys would be a little more upset with this "uninformed scenario."

The more apt comparison is between the kiosk staffer and a host/hostess seating you at a restaurant. The cook would be more like the sales person.


If a kiosk staffer tells me that I can buy in for "about $10K" and I take the tour and find out that it is really "about $17K", who will I believe? I might think that the guide is trying to pull one over on me since the kiosk person gave me a substantially lower buy in amount. I would certainly be much more hesitant to trust my guide, even though he is the one that supposedly knows more about DVC.


Why would you trust your guide less than the person booking the tour? What if the guide told you buy-in was LESS than what the booking person told you? Who would you trust less in that case? (I suspect that human nature is to be less trusting of the person who gives the answer that is undesired.)

[jbrowna]

What concerns me is op's statement "Welcome to the new DVC....". The implication here is that the kiosk CM was trained to lie -- or at least to mislead. I very much doubt that. In fact, I think that if DVC learned what this CM was doing the guy might just be out of a job. I have no doubt that op heard what he heard, but I don't think he's justified in drawing the conclusion that the CM's behavior is now DVC policy!

[drusba]

If the Kiosk CM gave the misleading information that was reported then it was wrong to do so. The concept of caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) died about 80 years ago. The assumption that everyone who walks up to one of those Kiosks is somehow a sophisticated purchaser who knows he shouldn't rely on what that person says is an assumption that courts have been rejecting for just as long. That Kiosk worker is not wearing a sign that says "Don't believe what I say." He is officially "Disney" and people are entitled to believe the person is telling the truth and knows what he is talking about. A timeshare seller is not allowed to make misrepresentations about the product and it matters not whether that misrep comes from the sales person or the guy standing behind the kiosk. Nevertheless, my best guess is that DVD does instruct these people as to what they are allowed to say and not say and what has been reported is beyond what they are allowed to say. In other words, Disney likely controls its program but it cannot control every act an employee might commit.

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

I don't care what the kiosk people are or aren't legally allowed to say. One of the things Disney has been selling with DVC is how much they're not like the other guys and how buying a timeshare is like buying a used car in so many people's minds, but they're different. CMs like in the OP need to be retrained or asked to move on.

[WDW LifeLong Fan]

Sammie, thanks for sharing this story.

This sounds like a campaign of misinformation by a carnival hack, "drafter" or not.

[Sammie]

You all do realize that we are only hearing ONE side of this story of an OVERHEARD converstation.......Lots of "quick to judge"

:confused3 Are you saying I am not reporting what I heard. Believe me if I was not absolutely sure of what was being said, between both parties it would not be reported here. I even protected this person by not stating where I was when this happened.

As to being worked up over it, as you put it, I am not worked up over anything. Had I been I would have spoken to the gentleman seeking information and informed him of the correct procedures.

For many this is their first contact with DVC and while I agree with Dean about their knowledge ability; I hate to see them being given wrong information. If they can't give accurate information they simply need to state that to the person and arrange a meeting with a tour guide at the preview center. This man left the kiosk full of wrong information on his first meeting with DVC.

This sales person was a DVC member he knew the facts, he was just skirting around them. I think this is just a sleazy way to get someone interested. The man had very specific questions that this agent could have answered truthfully, but that did not happen.

To everyone else that posted, I appreciate that you know that I would never embelish anything posted here, if anything I would err on the side of caution and also that you too feel that this is not the standard we believe DVC should set.

And yes I let DVC managment know I find this highly unacceptable.

[Sammie]

What concerns me is op's statement "Welcome to the new DVC....". The implication here is that the kiosk CM was trained to lie -- or at least to mislead. I very much doubt that. In fact, I think that if DVC learned what this CM was doing the guy might just be out of a job. I have no doubt that op heard what he heard, but I don't think he's justified in drawing the conclusion that the CM's behavior is now DVC policy!

I will agree that you make a good point and I will give DVC the benefit of the doubt. I will hope that you are correct in that DVC will be outraged about his sharing of such blatant misinformation but I afraid that will not be the case.

Disney is hurting financially. I was there during a time when several upper Executives where shown the door for not taking the buyout. DVC sales is being seen as the life saver on a leaking ship. I am afraid at this time that sales is the number one priority and that is a DVC that many of us are not used to.

I can report though that BWV are scheduled for a major rehab and when finished everyone will be pleased with the results. :thumbsup2

[Sammie]

Is it their job to provide information about usage and other contract stipulations? I don't think so. I think their job is to book people to take tours.

To the OP, did you call the sales center to report the misinformation you overheard and the person giving that misinformation?

If these people's job is to set up appointment with a guide who can answer their questions then they need to being doing that job. They don't need to be sharing wrong information and making a bad impression on the first meeting for this person with DVC. Not everyone that walks to these kiosks have the background that many on here have and I think it is sad that due to that they are mislead. And Yes I expect Bus drivers to know about transportation at Disney. If not don't give me wrong information, simply say "I don't know". I would not expect a bus driver to know about dining. If someone had asked this kiosk person about restaurants and he gave them wrong info it would be different, but the kiosk is respresenting DVC, wrong information about DVC membership is not acceptable.

And yes I reported it. Have not heard back from them at this time.

[Tara]

If these people's job is to set up appointment with a guide who can answer their questions then they need to being doing that job. They don't need to be sharing wrong information and making a bad impression on the first meeting for this person with DVC. Not everyone that walks to these kiosks have the background that many on here have and I think it is sad that due to that they are mislead. And Yes I expect Bus drivers to know about transportation at Disney. If not don't give me wrong information, simply say "I don't know". I would not expect a bus driver to know about dining. If someone had asked this kiosk person about restaurants and he gave them wrong info it would be different, but the kiosk is respresenting DVC, wrong information is not acceptable.

And yes I reported it. Have not heard back from them at this time.

I'd be very interested in hearing about the response you get.

Don't take any of my comments to mean that it's okay for the kiosk staffer to give out incorrect information - I do think it's better for everyone involved if someone says "here's how I think it works, but please check with your guide because I could have incorrect or outdated information" or better yet "I just get you to the red van - they don't even let me drive it, so better save your questions for your guide."

[disneynutz]

Disney has been undergoing a change during the last several years. It may not be readily apparent, but their new direction is increased profit and as a result, less magic.

Jay Rasulo, the Chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is a bean counter and Jim Lewis, DVC President, is a salesman. Their goals are to cut costs, increase profit, and sell more DVC units. Like other companies, they are losing focus on what made Disney the company that we love.

As more pressure is placed on employees to add to the bottom line, things are said, or not said, to prospective DVC owners if it will allow them sell more units, keep their jobs, and make their bosses happy.

Disney has a new employee training program. One of the elements is called "traditions". The history of Walt Disney and the Disney Company and what made Disney famous for the way that they plus the Guest experience. From what I've been told the training has gone from a week long immersion into the Disney philosophy to less than a day long brief overview. :sad2:

[Sammie]

Disney has been undergoing a change during the last several years. It may not be readily apparent, but their new direction is increased profit and as a result, less magic.

Jay Rasulo, the Chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is a bean counter and Jim Lewis, DVC President, is a salesman. Their goals are to cut costs, increase profit, and sell more DVC units. Like other companies, they are losing focus on what made Disney the company that we love.

As more pressure is placed on employees to add to the bottom line, things are said, or not said, to prospective DVC owners if it will allow them sell more units, keep their jobs, and make their bosses happy.

Disney has a new employee training program. One of the elements is called "traditions". The history of Walt Disney and the Disney Company and what made Disney famous for the way that they plus the Guest experience. From what I've been told the training has gone from a week long immersion into the Disney philosophy to less than a day long brief overview. :sad2:





Thanks for saying what I was trying to say. And yes; to those of us who have been going for over 20 years, the change is very apparent.

[CarolAnnC]

I agree, this is very shady on Disney's part. This isn't a person driving a boat explaining monorails....this is this person's JOB. You're in a Disney park, this is a Disney employeee, doing his job. You expect the information to be correct.

Actually, the boat captains are Disney employees too. They have been known to embellish and propogate rumors over the years, including circulating the one that the monorail was going to be added on later to the Swan and Dolphin hotels.

ITA!

If a kiosk staffer tells me that I can buy in for "about $10K" and I take the tour and find out that it is really "about $17K", who will I believe?

Don't they still offer a 100 point buy in at AKV? They most definitely did not that long ago. That would put it very close to $10k to buy in....and of course, there is always resale, lol.

[BWV Dreamin]

Disney has been undergoing a change during the last several years. It may not be readily apparent, but their new direction is increased profit and as a result, less magic.

Jay Rasulo, the Chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is a bean counter and Jim Lewis, DVC President, is a salesman. Their goals are to cut costs, increase profit, and sell more DVC units. Like other companies, they are losing focus on what made Disney the company that we love.

As more pressure is placed on employees to add to the bottom line, things are said, or not said, to prospective DVC owners if it will allow them sell more units, keep their jobs, and make their bosses happy.

Disney has a new employee training program. One of the elements is called "traditions". The history of Walt Disney and the Disney Company and what made Disney famous for the way that they plus the Guest experience. From what I've been told the training has gone from a week long immersion into the Disney philosophy to less than a day long brief overview. :sad2:




Wow, great stuff! Still amazed how you are in "the know"! Thanks for posting!:thumbsup2

[Hazzard101]

I was taken to The World last September by some friends and my DW. I went kicking and screaming. I came back very impressed and addicted. I went on a tour with my friends and did not buy, my friends did. We thought the process was very low pressure and very well explained. I asked many questions about the products and was given truthful and informative answers. We purchased Saturday from home and are so excited about staying in May.

With all this said, being a newbie and with little knowledge of how things used to be I was impressed with the service and attitude of all CM's That I came in contact with ( with the exception of the mean old bitty that ripped me off at the pretzel stand in H.S.):headache: I grew up with a father who was a Mfg. rep. He has taught me that anyone wearing a uniform with a company name on it needs to be able to represent the company to the public.

If Disney is paying this person to stand under a giant DVC sign with all the DVC books and information I would expect that person have an exceptable knowledge of the product. The kiosk does not say rides to DVC sales sign up. It is set up as an information station. I have yet to meet a CM that ran a ride or just was part of line control that didn't know all about the ride they were working. If you stand under the DVC sign then ,in my humble opinion, you better know your stuff.

To say that this person should not know about the product and that they are just trained to get you in the van, if true, should be looked at as a grave mistake on the part of the coorprate minds in charge of the DVC financial group.

These people are the first contact some people have with DVC and if they are not informed about the product then how do they expect me to get excited about the product. The other thing my father told me was if you don't know the answer tell them you don't know and you will find the answer.
Just my opinion, I hate to see such a great product get such shabby representation. Remember also that there are a few in every crowd and it is our responsability to let Disney know.

[Bob Price]

Actually, the boat captains are Disney employees too. They have been known to embellish and propogate rumors over the years, including circulating the one that the monorail was going to be added on later to the Swan and Dolphin hotels.

Those boat captains are the same ones that told me the CRv tower was going to be a DVC. Wait a minute, some of what they say may be true.

[kristenrice]

Don't they still offer a 100 point buy in at AKV? They most definitely did not that long ago. That would put it very close to $10k to buy in....and of course, there is always resale, lol.

I forgot that the 100-point minimum was still in effect for AKV. Thank you for correcting that.

But, according to the kiosk person I talked to, you HAVE to buy a minimum of 160 points "to get in the system", even if you don't buy from Disney.

I am not expecting them to promote or even mention the resale market since that is their direct competition. I do expect them not to lie to me though. Obviously, I already had a knowledge of the competition and what they had to offer. I was only stopping at the kiosk to find out where I could find a list of the "500 destinations worldwide". I told him I was not interested in the tour because, if and when we did buy, it would not be from Disney since we only wanted 100 points. That's when he said, "It doesn't matter where you buy from. You still have to buy at least 160 points to get in the system." Had I not known better, I would have been upset that I had no chance of buying DVC since we can't afford 160 points. I know that Disney wanted me to think "Oh, I guess I'll just skip the resale market and buy the 160 points from Disney".:rotfl: But, since I knew better, it just made me a little :sick: knowing that either 1) This guy doesn't know what he is selling or 2) This guy is playing dirty pool to try and get me to take a tour of something I probably know more about than he does.:laughing:

[toocherie]

When I stopped and made my appointment to tour at a DVC booth in California (in DTD) I started asking the person at the booth questions and they made it very clear to me that they were unable to answer a lot of questions because they were not licensed salespersons. Maybe it's different in Florida, but at least here they really are just giving the mere basics and not answering questions. (and at that point I knew the answers already having done all my reading here on the DVC board for a month or two!)

[Dean]

Soooooo, what you're saying is that not only should we doubt what they tell us, but that we should also not believe a word they are saying?:rolleyes1 :rolleyes1Unless it's in writing, that's correct. There are so many nuances to these issues that they could be answering one question and you could be thinking another and even a 100% correct answer could mislead you.

I agree with your evaluation, but I do think it is wrong of DVC to allow uninformed people at these kiosks. They are the "first impression" given to prospective buyers, and to give them sketchy or incorrect information can do NOTHING but hurt the eventual sales process.No doubt it was wrong of him to even give out the info and then when busted, to be rude to Sammie. As noted, they are representatives of Disney in general.

If the Kiosk CM gave the misleading information that was reported then it was wrong to do so. The concept of caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) died about 80 years ago. The assumption that everyone who walks up to one of those Kiosks is somehow a sophisticated purchaser who knows he shouldn't rely on what that person says is an assumption that courts have been rejecting for just as long. That Kiosk worker is not wearing a sign that says "Don't believe what I say." He is officially "Disney" and people are entitled to believe the person is telling the truth and knows what he is talking about. A timeshare seller is not allowed to make misrepresentations about the product and it matters not whether that misrep comes from the sales person or the guy standing behind the kiosk. Nevertheless, my best guess is that DVD does instruct these people as to what they are allowed to say and not say and what has been reported is beyond what they are allowed to say. In other words, Disney likely controls its program but it cannot control every act an employee might commit.Several problems. One is you sign that verbal representations are not binding if not in writing otherwise. Another is proving it happened, that is, unless Sammie wants to go to court to testify in this exact example.

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

Actually, the boat captains are Disney employees too. They have been known to embellish and propogate rumors over the years, including circulating the one that the monorail was going to be added on later to the Swan and Dolphin hotels.

Boat captains are employed specifically for transportation.

DVC kiosk representatives are employed specifically for selling time shares.

A boat captain telling a tall tale or giving incorrect information doesn't have the potential for costing you (much) money. However, there is the potential of fraud resulting from incorrect information being given at a DVC kiosk.

Why defend, justify or try to explain away this action folks? :confused3

[Dean]

Why defend, justify or try to explain away this action folks? :confused3I don't think anyone's defending the action, only questioning the decision and wisdom of anyone that buys based on info (any info) from such a group. Timeshares are things that are generally sold to people, most don't go out with the intent to buy. Most are only worth a fraction of what one pays. DVC is certainly a notch above many (but not all) in those regards, but the principles still apply. They are essentially NOT a part of the equation other than possibly setting up a tour for some.

[disneynutz]

I was taken to The World last September by some friends and my DW. I went kicking and screaming. I came back very impressed and addicted. I went on a tour with my friends and did not buy, my friends did. We thought the process was very low pressure and very well explained. I asked many questions about the products and was given truthful and informative answers. We purchased Saturday from home and are so excited about staying in May.

Before you bought, did they tell you that buying during a Disney Cruse or from one of the remote sales centers usually is a better deal?

That you can buy a smaller contract and save money by buying resale?

That wait-lists seem to be becoming the norm and that they just changed the rules so you can only have two active at one time?

Did they tell you that if you want a desirable resort at a popular time of year, you should call at 9:00 AM EST 11 months before your travel date and keep redialing until you get through.

That many of the resorts are worn and in need of maintenance?

That they just changed the points charts for 2010 and that some members now require additional points for the same vacation. Our family requires 30 more points per year in order to schedule our favorite vacation times.

That using points for anything other than the DVC resorts at WDW is not a good value?

These are examples of what many new buyers are not told. I hope that your Guide was honest and covered you on the above.

[keishashadow]

The Advance Sales Associates are a dime a dozen and they are paid based upon their tour referrals. They are not licensed real estate agents so legally their information is not binding.

The Guides are licensed agents so they have to be more careful about what they say and do.

speaking as realtor, unless it's in writing u cannot count on any verbal real estate information from any agent or sub-agent of seller as binding:confused3 ...that's why they have disclosure statements. yes, we do adhere to a code of ethics, yet what we say can easily be misinterpreted by an over eager buyer or seller.

When I stopped and made my appointment to tour at a DVC booth in California (in DTD) I started asking the person at the booth questions and they made it very clear to me that they were unable to answer a lot of questions because they were not licensed salespersons. Maybe it's different in Florida, but at least here they really are just giving the mere basics and not answering questions. (and at that point I knew the answers already having done all my reading here on the DVC board for a month or two!)

we asked @ kiosk outside of DLH last summer, rep sent us over to model site, giving us detailed directions. We went as soon as they opened the next day (very nice model btw:thumbsup2 ). They didn't appear especially pleased to see us & said there would be a long wait. I indicated i had time to spare;) ; miraculously a guide became immediately available as several more DVC members popped in for lookie see. (Ive got a feeling the kiosk guides were brought up to speed in a hurry!:rolleyes1 )

The rep admitted they take great pains to not have existing members and new prospects co-mingle on same tours:laughing: . Perhaps they're worried existing DVCers might infect the noobs with our own special brand of pixie dust

[BWV Dreamin]

Before you bought, did they tell you that buying during a Disney Cruse or from one of the remote sales centers usually is a better deal?

That you can buy a smaller contract and save money by buying resale?

That wait-lists seem to be becoming the norm and that they just changed the rules so you can only have two active at one time?

Did they tell you that if you want a desirable resort at a popular time of year, you should call at 9:00 AM EST 11 months before your travel date and keep redialing until you get through.

That many of the resorts are worn and in need of maintenance?

That they just changed the points charts for 2010 and that some members now require additional points for the same vacation. Our family requires 30 more points per year in order to schedule our favorite vacation times.

That using points for anything other than the DVC resorts at WDW is not a good value?

These are examples of what many new buyers are not told. I hope that your Guide was honest and covered you on the above.
:rotfl: :laughing: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl: Hmmm...something tells me "no"!

[Hazzard101]

Before you bought, did they tell you that buying during a Disney Cruse or from one of the remote sales centers usually is a better deal?

That you can buy a smaller contract and save money by buying resale?

That wait-lists seem to be becoming the norm and that they just changed the rules so you can only have two active at one time?

Did they tell you that if you want a desirable resort at a popular time of year, you should call at 9:00 AM EST 11 months before your travel date and keep redialing until you get through.

That many of the resorts are worn and in need of maintenance?

That they just changed the points charts for 2010 and that some members now require additional points for the same vacation. Our family requires 30 more points per year in order to schedule our favorite vacation times.

That using points for anything other than the DVC resorts at WDW is not a good value?

These are examples of what many new buyers are not told. I hope that your Guide was honest and covered you on the above.


My DW and I have two friends who are DVC owners and We did a lot of research. We didn't just blindly join. It was September when we were at te World and we bought last weekend. We did our homework. I would caution anyone that is interested to go on the tour and listen to the speil and then ask your questions. Then wait till you get back home and think about it. Ask questions on these boards and talk to people like the one quoted.

In defense of the sales people. Being in sales myself before, it is not really the job of the sales representative to add to the concerns of the prospective buyer. For example, if you were going to buy a car would you expect the sales person to tell you yo could get a better deal on the car from the dealer in the next town? would you expect him to tell you that there have been many complaints that the car never gets out of high gear when going up hill? I don't believe it is the sellers responsibility to tell you all the in's and out's unless you ask a specific question. I believe the buyer has a responsibility
to do their homework before deciding to make such a big purchase.

I would think that many people probably make a snap decision while in the throws of Disney magic and then regret the decision. :) Or find they did not ask the right questions. That is why they tell you that you have 10 days to cancel your deal. :)

[disneynutz]

Disney gives you 10 days to cancel because it's Florida law, not because they are being nice. Disney has always had a higher standard and most buyers assume that buying a Disney DVC Membership is different than buying something else. Sadly it isn't.

Buyers really need to do their homework and rent points to check things out before they buy.

[LIFERBABE]

You all do realize that we are only hearing ONE side of this story of an OVERHEARD converstation.......Lots of "quick to judge"

Do we really expect the lying "seat filler" to post here?:confused3

I went to Doorway to Dreams on Feb 15 2009 and pretty much heard the same thing from the lady posted on the door.

Plus she said I could "GASP" RENT MY POINTS!:scared1:
(I know we can, but people dont believe that DVC sells this way)

My favorite place to hang out at SSR is Community Hall. I get a kick out of the many guides bringing their tours thru, spreading misinformation. In the beginning I wanted to jump in and correct them, but it was so rampant I refrained.

So Thank you to the OP for trying to keep a bit of magic:wizard:

[Sammie]

Thanks to everyone that understood why this upset me. I really like my DVC, I can accept changes that enhance the membership even if they personally do not affect me in a positive manner.

But Disneynutz very accurately described what is happening at Disney and DVC lately and I find it very upsetting.

If as members we do not put checks and balances on the way DVC is run, pretty soon we will all lose out.

Just because I like DVC does not mean I have to accept everything they do without questioning the reason or the manner in which they do it.

I don't expect a kiosk worker to have all the information, I do expect them to be able to answer specific questions with accurate information or if not, then to refer that question to someone that can.

[OneMoreTry]

I don't think OP is getting "too worked up."

Such a sales pitch is ethically wrong.

DVC is responsible. If they support this then they are no better than a stereotypical used car lot. Their reputation WILL suffer and the reputation of Disney will suffer.

This desperate salesman should be out pitching ShamWow or other "As Seen on TV" crap. Or actual used cars.

[LIFERBABE]

I don't think OP is getting "too worked up."

Such a sales pitch is ethically wrong.

DVC is responsible. If they support this then they are no better than a stereotypical used car lot. Their reputation WILL suffer and the reputation of Disney will suffer.

This desperate salesman should be out pitching ShamWow or other "As Seen on TV" crap. Or actual used cars.


:lmao: :rotfl: :rotfl2:

Totally agree! Or selling Appliances!

We should not be so willing to give DVC a pass because they have a POS. We did that with the Point Reallocation but many people did not take that lying down and effected change. DVC brought back the small point add ons at BLT because of the uproar (and the economy;) )
It's never ok to lie cheat and steal to get what you want.

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

Thanks Sammie - you didn't get "worked up" and many of us appreciate your bringing this topic to the "front burner."

[Brian Noble]

DVC kiosk representatives are employed specifically for selling time shares.
Not quite. The kiosk folks are employed specifically to get you to take a tour. It's the Guides who sell. In the parlance of the industry, the kiosk reps are known as "body snatchers." They don't close the deal---and if you've seen Glengarry Glen Ross, you know that coffee's for closers.

The kiosk reps ought to know enough to at least know when to say, "That's a question that we can really answer best on the tour, when we can explain the whole system in detail." There's just no question about it.

However, WDW staff are not exactly well-known for being able to correctly and consistenly answer questions more complicated than "When is the 3 o'clock parade?" In light of that, it might be unreasonable to expect the body snatchers in the kiosks to do what no one else in the company seems to be capable of.

And, this whole profit thing is not recent---it goes all the way back to the ol' Mousestro himself. If you read any of the competent Disney biographies, it's clear that even though Walt cultivated the "kind old uncle" persona and made Roy out to be the sharp-pencil heavy, he was a pretty darn shrewd businessman in his own right.

[Dean]

Disney gives you 10 days to cancel because it's Florida law, not because they are being nice. Disney has always had a higher standard and most buyers assume that buying a Disney DVC Membership is different than buying something else. Sadly it isn't.

Buyers really need to do their homework and rent points to check things out before they buy.DVC used to be 15 days when FL law was 10, they changed it a number of years ago.

Do we really expect the lying "seat filler" to post here?:confused3

Plus she said I could "GASP" RENT MY POINTS!:scared1:
(I know we can, but people dont believe that DVC sells this way):Does it matter if they post? Sometimes when you overhear a conversation you don't get the full flavor and can easily misinterpret. Personally I'm inclined to believe it happened exactly as suggested but the bottom line is we really don't have all the facts. As a CM they couldn't post about this even if they wanted to. As for renting, DVC guides have suggested renting many times over the years, this is nothing new nor novel.

Thanks to everyone that understood why this upset me. I really like my DVC, I can accept changes that enhance the membership even if they personally do not affect me in a positive manner.

But Disneynutz very accurately described what is happening at Disney and DVC lately and I find it very upsetting.

If as members we do not put checks and balances on the way DVC is run, pretty soon we will all lose out.

Just because I like DVC does not mean I have to accept everything they do without questioning the reason or the manner in which they do it.

I don't expect a kiosk worker to have all the information, I do expect them to be able to answer specific questions with accurate information or if not, then to refer that question to someone that can.Sammie, I think we all would agree on this information as presented from this post. However, as an excuse for one to buy not understanding what they were getting into, not at all.

[ILoveMyDVC]

Did anyone notice in this month's just delivered Disney Files
the
"Pesky Timeshare Regulations" quote -

boy, doesn't that say it all. Gosh, I just hate when states enact laws to protect those pesky consumers.

[stopher1]

Did anyone notice in this month's just delivered Disney Files
the
"Pesky Timeshare Regulations" quote -

boy, doesn't that say it all. Gosh, I just hate when states enact laws to protect those pesky consumers.

I noticed that when I read the article about VGC today - but honestly I didn't take it too seriously. It seemed more tongue in cheek to me since in CA they can't really so much as sneeze until everything is in place and ready to go. I was disappointed with the issue simply because I was hoping it would be mostly about VGC, not Ko Olina - but oh well, I guess the next issue will be since VGC will be on sale to more than just Founders by the time the next issue comes out.

As far as the OP and the general dialogue of this thread goes, I tend to agree with you Sammie - it was uncalled for on the part of the Advance Planner/Drafter/Scheduler CM goes. I agree that to the untrained eye (i.e. your average tourist simply on vacation at Disney, not those of us here on these boards that are a bit more, shall I say into it all quite regularly, more versed, etc) - but to the average eye these CM's simply represent Disney - regardless of whether or not they are licensed to sell or not. Most folks that talk to the kiosk reps have no clue as to the difference... (perhaps they should be wearing some sort of logo or additional info on their nametag could help differentiate them). I don't think you got all worked up either, Sammie.

I totally understand the frustration, however, on both sides of the equation. I am in the financial industry, working on the lending side of the equation, but also representing our investment products. I am licensed to talk about our investment products to clients in most of the states within my region, but not ALL of them (17 of 20). But BEFORE I was licensed at all - I had to walk the line VERY, VERY carefully in how I answered questions about the investment products, making sure to pass along the ones I couldn't answer to a teammate who was licensed - and sometimes it truly wasn't easy. I would imagine the same kind of thing happens in those kiosks, especially after x number of hours of standing there answering the same stuff over and over again. Theoretically Disney "should" have a mix of licensed and unlicensed CM's working together to help alleviate the concerns, but the financial reality of keeping the guides at the kiosks instead of selling is prohibitive. Training "should" be better, but it is what it is. When it comes down to it - Disney markets these kiosks ALL OVER WDW and DL, and then doesn't appear to maintain quality assurance, at least based on the OP's experience. When push comes to shove, however, regardless of how it gets represented at the kiosk - it's up to the individual potential member to speak with a guide, and read through the literature provided. At that point if they don't understand what they're buying, it's their fault.

[LIFERBABE]

Does it matter if they post? Sometimes when you overhear a conversation you don't get the full flavor and can easily misinterpret. Personally I'm inclined to believe it happened exactly as suggested but the bottom line is we really don't have all the facts. As a CM they couldn't post about this even if they wanted to. As for renting, DVC guides have suggested renting many times over the years, this is nothing new nor novel.


What Sammie described was not a half heard conversation and how many ways is there to misinterpret "you can stay anywhere" but everytime someone reports something here, we get the "1 side of the story" defense.

We know we are getting it, that's why we are here and not on disneyworld.com.

Yes, DVC guides continue to tell us we can rent, and it is allowable under the POS, but how many times have you corrected posters here when they say that renting is a violation of the rules and DVC does not allow it?

Just making the point that these DVC reps do say these things and it is not all misinterpretation or hearing what we want to hear.

[SunnieRN]

Bottom line is, if you don't know an answer to the question, say so. Also volunteering incorrect information is totally unnecessary. Most people who walk up to a kiosk are already a captive audience and somewhat interested already. No need to lie.

[Dean]

What Sammie described was not a half heard conversation and how many ways is there to misinterpret "you can stay anywhere" but everytime someone reports something here, we get the "1 side of the story" defense.

We know we are getting it, that's why we are here and not on disneyworld.com.

Yes, DVC guides continue to tell us we can rent, and it is allowable under the POS, but how many times have you corrected posters here when they say that renting is a violation of the rules and DVC does not allow it?

Just making the point that these DVC reps do say these things and it is not all misinterpretation or hearing what we want to hear.We don't truly know it was then entire conversation, as I stated, I suspect it was accurate but we don't know for certain.

[jco_direwolf]

We don't truly know it was then entire conversation, as I stated, I suspect it was accurate but we don't know for certain.

This is what I was about to say. Add to it, there are very subtle differences in the way questions are asked, which the answers may be radically different.

A lot of times the answers I've heard where correct for the question the way it was phrased. But not what I believe the person was asking.

But I agree, the contracts you sign are the binding answer to your questions. I also like to apply Occam's Razor to things like this. Did the guide lie (knowing say something that is untrue), not understand the question, answer the question the guest asked, or was just misinformed? (I'd lean to the last 2 answers.)

johno

ps. I'm an engineer not a lawyer.

[tjkraz]

Welcome to the new DVC and some wonder why we want it back the way it was. :headache:

I was with ya, Sammie, right up to this point. Do you HONESTLY think that these things NEVER happened 10+ years ago??? If so, I can't join you on that one.

I've been a DVC follower for 8+ years and, if anything, the volume of complaints like you describe seems to be declining. I don't see nearly as many "it's only August--why can't I get a room for early December?" or "my Guide said I could always book BCV!!" posts as we did just 2-3 years ago.

Posts suggesting that people were misinformed / mislead / misunderstood during any form of sales contact with DVC are hardly new. Let's not pretend that the same thing wasn't going on back in your good 'ole days.

[Sammie]

I was with ya, Sammie, right up to this point. Do you HONESTLY think that these things NEVER happened 10+ years ago??? If so, I can't join you on that one.

I've been a DVC follower for 8+ years and, if anything, the volume of complaints like you describe seems to be declining. I don't see nearly as many "it's only August--why can't I get a room for early December?" or "my Guide said I could always book BCV!!" posts as we did just 2-3 years ago.

Posts suggesting that people were misinformed / mislead / misunderstood during any form of sales contact with DVC are hardly new. Let's not pretend that the same thing wasn't going on back in your good 'ole days.

Maybe you are right. It just never happened to me, so I guess in that sense I was lucky or naive. It just did not seem to me, based on personal experience, that there was such a focus on pushing the sales of DVC until recently.

For example the first DVC cruise was about the members, those that followed changed with the focus being more about sales. Member meetings are now more sales focused. Member issues are brushed off. Sales questions are welcomed. Information sent to members on a timely basis is sales oriented, information about changes to the existing membership is at best poorly handled and often inaccurate. Even the DVC magazine has changed to be more a promotion about what is new and available for sale, than the exisiting resorts.

And actually the point of even sharing this, which at this time I am second guessing, had no idea I would have to defend my honesty in doing so, is that I can now understand why some members were so upset about the recent changes in point allocation because truly they were told by DVC respresentatives that it would not happen.

And before anyone comes back and says Buyers should protect themselves, it is still not what Disney was about in the years that I bought based on my personal experience.

And Dean, you are right you don't know it was the entire conversation anymore than I know that what you report is accurate. I guess everyone has to make that decision on their own. However it is not very hard to understand a simple question like "can I stay at the Grand Floridian and it not cost me anything to use DVC to book there?"

DVC advertises on their DVC website about values and tradition and I think they have forgotten what that acutally means. And Yes I know not everyone that works for DVC has forgotten; but one rotten apple can spoil the entire barrel and I felt sorry for this guy trying his best to get accurate info only to be so mislead.

As many others have stated if they can't be accurate then simply state that. I would have been willing to possibly consider the kiosk worker was simply misinformed on the product he was promoting, until he stated he was a DVC member and had used his membership many times. After that I truly felt he was not being very honest with this guest. His response to me when questioned further supported this.

I still think many of you are missing the point of my even sharing this. When people get on here and are upset over changes to DVC, cut them some slack. Maybe they truly were told by DVC that points will never change and even though everyone making a purchase should do their homework, at some point those doing the selling have to be held responsible for thier actions too. You can't put all the blame on the buyer.

[LIFERBABE]

I still think many of you are missing the point of my even sharing this. When people get on here and are upset over changes to DVC, cut them some slack. Maybe they truly were told by DVC that points will never change and even though everyone making a purchase should do their homework, at some point those doing the selling have to be held responsible for thier actions too. You can't put all the blame on the buyer.


I completely agree:goodvibes

We are quick to make excuses for DVC but the buyer should be an all knowing being with a third eye and psychic abilities.

[Brian Noble]

You can't put all the blame on the buyer.
Perhaps. But, if there is ever a purchase in which the buyer holds the lions share of the blame, it is a timeshare, becuase the buyer has to initial/sign a clause that says "Anything verbal doesn't count."

Once you initial that clause, it's really hard to go back and say "But my Guide told me..." I absolutely believe that many many Members were told that point values could not change. Doesn't matter. The contract says they can.

And, to be clear, I'm not making excuses for DVC. In fact, I don't trust them any farther than I can throw one of 'em. They aren't as bad as most, but they are still selling timeshares, and you know the old saying: they only lie when their lips are moving.

[puntagordabob]

Or the boat captains who insisted that the monorail would be running right through the Swan and Dolphin!

While that has not materialized...they did in fact build them both with rooms that could be removed without messing with the structural integrity of the resorts for precisely this use...so at least some truth here....just never panned out....but in 20 or 50 years who knows! :)

[Dean]

Yes, DVC guides continue to tell us we can rent, and it is allowable under the POS, but how many times have you corrected posters here when they say that renting is a violation of the rules and DVC does not allow it? Correcting factually inaccurate info is a problem exactly how? I know some are hoping that newbies will get that idea and assume it's correct.

I still think many of you are missing the point of my even sharing this. When people get on here and are upset over changes to DVC, cut them some slack. Maybe they truly were told by DVC that points will never change and even though everyone making a purchase should do their homework, at some point those doing the selling have to be held responsible for thier actions too. You can't put all the blame on the buyer.Each issue would have to be evaluated on it's own merit. One needs to understand the product that was purchased truly before purchase. Not a lot of sympathy if the paperwork says one thing and the guide or OPC says another as in the reservation change or reallocation even if they were specifically told otherwise by the guide. I can and do feel for anyone who is adversely affected but that's different that thinking the change was inappropriate or DVC was somehow wrong in doing so. Some said they understood the rules, knew it could happen, were adversely affected and disappointed but understood that was a personal feeling and no more. That is fair and appropriate. Calling DVC names or questioning their integrity for such a change is an entirely different matter that ONLY reflects on that person in a negative way and demonstrates their lack of understanding of the product in these two situations.

[LIFERBABE]

Correcting factually inaccurate info is a problem exactly how? I know some are hoping that newbies will get that idea and assume it's correct.



Dean, I did not say it was a problem that you correct the misinformation. :confused3 I dont see it as a problem at all.

And yes I agree with you that some continue to post it so that the new members will think it is not allowed or "frowned" upon by DVC.



-

[Poohs Pal]

I don't think that it matters whether they are "drafters" or not. This gent, and possibly others, are misrepresenting DVC. They should be trained to such a level that they are not out there ignorant of the program (or simply lying to folks). It's not "rocket science" - they should be able to accurately answer questions and get people over to SSR for "the talk."

It's a thin excuse to simply state that they are only "drafters."

I completly agree....... Susan

[OneMoreTry]

Perhaps. But, if there is ever a purchase in which the buyer holds the lions share of the blame, it is a timeshare, becuase the buyer has to initial/sign a clause that says "Anything verbal doesn't count."

Once you initial that clause, it's really hard to go back and say "But my Guide told me..." I absolutely believe that many many Members were told that point values could not change. Doesn't matter. The contract says they can.

And, to be clear, I'm not making excuses for DVC. In fact, I don't trust them any farther than I can throw one of 'em. They aren't as bad as most, but they are still selling timeshares, and you know the old saying: they only lie when their lips are moving.


Many people who remember the actual Walt from the 40's and 50's hold his word and the word of anyone who represents him in high esteem. Regardless of any checkbox.

There was a time, as it were, that a man's word was as good as a written contract. Thats what Main Street USA is supposed to remind us of. Disney represents that time.

Now I know all the legal blah blah blah and caveat emptor spit that everyone here has posted. BUT, when someone representing the Disney company in any way shape or form looks people in the eye and shakes their hands, some of those people take their words to heart because of who they represent.

Disney can hide behind bucketfuls of lawyers, dumping their BS all over the place "a la the sorcerer's apprentice." But then they are playing the villain hiding in Walt clothing.

So yea yea yea, everyone beware of everything. But if any corporation wants to be noted as a cut above, they should begin with decency and reliability and honesty at the point of a sale. Disney can do what they choose. The world is watching.

[Brian Noble]

I think you quoted the wrong post. The one about Walt was earlier.

Nevertheless, I think it's fair to say that, on balance, the DVC staff are pretty reasonable. Sometimes they get the details wrong, but that's as likely due to poor training (or simple human foibles) rather than some grand scheme to dupe people out of their money. I teach at a top-20 university. The kids in my classes are smart. And, if I had a dollar for every time one of them asked a question that was already answered in the assignment that they already had read, I'd double my salary overnight. Napoleon put it best: Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

[Dean]

Dean, I did not say it was a problem that you correct the misinformation. :confused3 I dont see it as a problem at all.

And yes I agree with you that some continue to post it so that the new members will think it is not allowed or "frowned" upon by DVC.



-Thanks for the clarification. I was looking at this info from all angles and was trying to figure out what you were trying to say. The only explanation I could see was you were either chastising me about it or agreeing with me and it seemed the former. I'm glad you responded otherwise, thanks.

But if any corporation wants to be noted as a cut above, they should begin with decency and reliability and honesty at the point of a sale. Disney can do what they choose. The world is watching.IMO, DVC can still hold their heads up. Employees make mistakes and it is a training opportunity for DVD OR an opportunity to weed out poor performers if applicable. IMO, one needs to be cautious about taking it on ourselves to correct CM. That's not to say it's inappropriate in some situations (including this one), just that one needs to be careful. Had I been Sammy in that situation I likely would have done the same thing. Had I gotten the same response I would either have asked the CM directly to speak to their supervisor OR gotten their name and immediately called sales and ask for a supervisor. Had I not had time to have done that then, I would have recorded their name and location and contacted DVC corporate directly likely by email. Still, it will never be perfect and there will always be outliers for whatever reason (zealous, dishonest, too aggressive, etc). We've seen them before at a much more important position such as the sales guides themselves (even supervisors) including some that actually lied and some that didn't know their product well enough to be reliable to even discuss a purchase with. Fortunately these type are unusual with most good timeshare companies including DVC, but they do get in and usually don't stay too long.

[jco_direwolf]

While that has not materialized...they did in fact build them both with rooms that could be removed without messing with the structural integrity of the resorts for precisely this use...so at least some truth here....just never panned out....but in 20 or 50 years who knows! :)

I would like to see the evidence you have for this. As near as I can tell it's a total rumor. And the big black square that people point at and say "That is where it was going to enter" is in fact something that Graves has used on other buildings (Not at Disney World.)

You can check out all ears (http://allears.net/aa/aa033108.htm#ques2) as it has a decent write-up.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/20th/graves01.jpg
so was the monorail going to run to the Hyatt in San Diego?

johno

[Deb & Bill]

I would like to see the evidence you have for this. As near as I can tell it's a total rumor. And the big black square that people point at and say "That is where it was going to enter" is in fact something that Graves has used on other buildings (Not at Disney World.)

You can check out all ears (http://allears.net/aa/aa033108.htm#ques2) as it has a decent write-up.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/fa267/20th/graves01.jpg
so was the monorail going to run to the Hyatt in San Diego?

johno

Love it, John. I knew the architectural style also, but hadn't seen any photos of other buildings he had built.

[disneynutz]

Many people who remember the actual Walt from the 40's and 50's hold his word and the word of anyone who represents him in high esteem. Regardless of any checkbox.

There was a time, as it were, that a man's word was as good as a written contract. Thats what Main Street USA is supposed to remind us of. Disney represents that time.

So yea yea yea, everyone beware of everything. But if any corporation wants to be noted as a cut above, they should begin with decency and reliability and honesty at the point of a sale. Disney can do what they choose. The world is watching.

The world may be watching, but most don't really seem to care. Corporations today get way to big and loose focus. Instead of being really good at a couple of businesses, they run 30 or 40 average businesses.

If a few don't do well, they get rid of them as Disney did with their stores, which they have now bought back. Because they are so big they really need to push everybody to make enough money to feed the beast. As a result some Cast Members may do or say things that aren't Walt like.

Here are Disney's companies:
Walt Disney Pictures
Touchstone Pictures
Hollywood Pictures
Miramax Films
Pixar
WLS - Chicago
WJRT - Flint
KFSN - Fresno
KTRK - Houston
KABC - Los Angeles
WABC - New York City
WPVI - Philadelphia
WTVD - Raleigh - Durham
KGO - San Francisco
WTVG - Toledo
ESPN (80%)
ESPN2 (80%)
ESPN Classic (80%)
ESPNU (80%)
ESPNEWS (80%)
ABC Family
Disney Channel
Toon Disney
SOAPnet
Lifetime Network (partial)
Lifetime Movie Network (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
A&E (partial)
A&E International (partial)
Jetix Europe (partial)
Jetix Latin America
The History Channel (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
ABC Radio
WDWD – Atlanta
WMVP – Chicago
WLS – Chicago
KESN – Dallas
KMKI – Dallas-Forth Worth
KRDY – San Antonio
WCOG – Greensboro, NC
WRDZ – Indianapolis
KABC – Los Angeles
KLOS – Los Angeles
KDIS – Los Angeles
KSPN – Los Angeles
KDIZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul
WKSH – Milwaukee, WI
WEVD – New York City
KDZR – Portland, OR
KWDZ – Salt Lake City
KIID – Sacramento
KMKY – Oakland
KQAM – Wichita
KKDZ – Seattle
WSDZ – St. Louis
WWMK – Cleveland
KMIK – Phoenix
KDDZ – Denver
WWMI – Tampa
KMIC – Houston
WMYM – Miami
WBWL – Jacksonville
WBYU – New Orleans
KDIS – Little Rock
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WMKI – Boston
WDZK – Hartford
WDDZ – Providence
WDZY – Richmond
WGFY – Charlotte
WDYZ – Orlando
WMNE – West Palm Beach
WEAE – Pittsburgh
WDRD – Louisville
WDDY – Albany, NY
KPHN – Kansas City
WQUA – Mobile
WBML – Jacksonville
WFDF – Detroit
WFRO – Fremont, OH
WDMV – Damascus, MD
WHKT – Norfolk Radio Disney
ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)
Walt Disney Records
Hollywood Records
Lyric Street Records
Hyperion
Miramax Books
ESPN Books
Theia
ABC Daytime Press
Hyperion eBooks
Hyperion East
Disney Publishing Worldwide
Cal Publishing Inc.
CrossGen
Hyperion Books for Children
Jump at the Sun
Volo
Michael di Caupa Books
Disney Global Children's Books
Disney Press
Disney Editions
Disney Libri
Global Retail
Global Continuity
Automotive Industries Magazine
Biography (with GE and Hearst) Magazine
Discover Magazine
Disney Adventures Magazine
Disney Magazine
ECN News Magazine
ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst)
Family Fun Magazine
Institutional Investor Magazine
JCK Magazine
Kodin Magazine
Top Famille - French family magazine
US Weekly (50%)
Video Business Magazine
Quality Magazine
Wondertime Magazine
Walt Disney Imagineering
Disneyland Resort
Walt Disney World Resort
Tokyo Disney Resort
Disneyland Resort Paris
Hong Kong Disneyland
Disney Vacation Club
Disney Cruise Line
Disney Theatrical Productions
Disney Live Family Entertainment
Disney on Ice
The Disney Store
Club Penguins
ESPN Zone
Disney Toys
Disney Apparel, Accessories and Footwear
Disney Food, Health and Beauty
Disney Home Furnishings and Decor
Disney Stationery
Disney Consumer Economics
The Baby Einstein Company
Muppets Holding Company
Disney Interactive Studios
Walt Disney Internet Group

No wonder they loose focus.

[doconeill]

While that has not materialized...they did in fact build them both with rooms that could be removed without messing with the structural integrity of the resorts for precisely this use...so at least some truth here....just never panned out....but in 20 or 50 years who knows! :)

This has always been an urban legend, and the designer himself has debunked it. There are quite a few logical reason why if you just thought about it it wouldn't be true.

Yesterland had a good article on it. (http://www.yesterland.com/monoraillegends.html)

[stopher1]

The world may be watching, but most don't really seem to care. Corporations today get way to big and loose focus. Instead of being really good at a couple of businesses, they run 30 or 40 average businesses.

If a few don't do well, they get rid of them as Disney did with their stores, which they have now bought back. Because they are so big they really need to push everybody to make enough money to feed the beast. As a result some Cast Members may do or say things that aren't Walt like.

Here are Disney's companies:
Walt Disney Pictures
Touchstone Pictures
Hollywood Pictures
Miramax Films
Pixar
WLS - Chicago
WJRT - Flint
KFSN - Fresno
KTRK - Houston
KABC - Los Angeles
WABC - New York City
WPVI - Philadelphia
WTVD - Raleigh - Durham
KGO - San Francisco
WTVG - Toledo
ESPN (80%)
ESPN2 (80%)
ESPN Classic (80%)
ESPNU (80%)
ESPNEWS (80%)
ABC Family
Disney Channel
Toon Disney
SOAPnet
Lifetime Network (partial)
Lifetime Movie Network (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
A&E (partial)
A&E International (partial)
Jetix Europe (partial)
Jetix Latin America
The History Channel (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
ABC Radio
WDWD – Atlanta
WMVP – Chicago
WLS – Chicago
KESN – Dallas
KMKI – Dallas-Forth Worth
KRDY – San Antonio
WCOG – Greensboro, NC
WRDZ – Indianapolis
KABC – Los Angeles
KLOS – Los Angeles
KDIS – Los Angeles
KSPN – Los Angeles
KDIZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul
WKSH – Milwaukee, WI
WEVD – New York City
KDZR – Portland, OR
KWDZ – Salt Lake City
KIID – Sacramento
KMKY – Oakland
KQAM – Wichita
KKDZ – Seattle
WSDZ – St. Louis
WWMK – Cleveland
KMIK – Phoenix
KDDZ – Denver
WWMI – Tampa
KMIC – Houston
WMYM – Miami
WBWL – Jacksonville
WBYU – New Orleans
KDIS – Little Rock
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WMKI – Boston
WDZK – Hartford
WDDZ – Providence
WDZY – Richmond
WGFY – Charlotte
WDYZ – Orlando
WMNE – West Palm Beach
WEAE – Pittsburgh
WDRD – Louisville
WDDY – Albany, NY
KPHN – Kansas City
WQUA – Mobile
WBML – Jacksonville
WFDF – Detroit
WFRO – Fremont, OH
WDMV – Damascus, MD
WHKT – Norfolk Radio Disney
ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)
Walt Disney Records
Hollywood Records
Lyric Street Records
Hyperion
Miramax Books
ESPN Books
Theia
ABC Daytime Press
Hyperion eBooks
Hyperion East
Disney Publishing Worldwide
Cal Publishing Inc.
CrossGen
Hyperion Books for Children
Jump at the Sun
Volo
Michael di Caupa Books
Disney Global Children's Books
Disney Press
Disney Editions
Disney Libri
Global Retail
Global Continuity
Automotive Industries Magazine
Biography (with GE and Hearst) Magazine
Discover Magazine
Disney Adventures Magazine
Disney Magazine
ECN News Magazine
ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst)
Family Fun Magazine
Institutional Investor Magazine
JCK Magazine
Kodin Magazine
Top Famille - French family magazine
US Weekly (50%)
Video Business Magazine
Quality Magazine
Wondertime Magazine
Walt Disney Imagineering
Disneyland Resort
Walt Disney World Resort
Tokyo Disney Resort
Disneyland Resort Paris
Hong Kong Disneyland
Disney Vacation Club
Disney Cruise Line
Disney Theatrical Productions
Disney Live Family Entertainment
Disney on Ice
The Disney Store
Club Penguins
ESPN Zone
Disney Toys
Disney Apparel, Accessories and Footwear
Disney Food, Health and Beauty
Disney Home Furnishings and Decor
Disney Stationery
Disney Consumer Economics
The Baby Einstein Company
Muppets Holding Company
Disney Interactive Studios
Walt Disney Internet Group

No wonder they lose focus.


Disney doesn't own the Tokyo Disneyland Resort. The Oriental Land Company does, which is why the quality there is often far superior to anything that gets built in the domestic parks anymore. Sure they have to use to the Imagineers for the design process and that's a really good thing, but Disney doesn't own it - they collect royalties from the OLC.

They also don't have a majority stake in Disneyland Paris either. That resort is partially owned by Euro Disney SCA, a French company, as well as Disney and others. I don't remember the percentages, but they were bleeding money so fast a decade ago and got "bailed out" by an investor. I seem to recall it was that Saudi prince who provided the necessary cash, then changing the stakeholders in that resort. He may not own more than 10-20%, but it definitely changed the ownership make-up and reducing the overall risk for TWDC.

The agreement with the Chinese government also reduces their ownership stake in Hong Kong Disneyland. While they may have the majority there, they certainly don't own it outright like they do DL and WDW. The proposed Shanghai park is reported to have better terms for China and a 51/49 split between TWDC/China, so Hong Kong may be closer to 60% Disney. Either way, they still take their lumps when the parks don't peform.

Regardless, you make very good points disneynutz. The more they have have gone on a buying frenzy through the years - the more profits they need to keep the overall company profitable. Not every entity is profitable each year, but they all pay into the total pot of The Walt Disney Company to produce those shareholder dividends that are so coveted.

[OneMoreTry]

The world may be watching, but most don't really seem to care. Corporations today get way to big and loose focus. Instead of being really good at a couple of businesses, they run 30 or 40 average businesses.

......

No wonder they loose focus.


Well maybe, just maybe, some of their management will strive to uphold a high standard and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY -- I know that is a dirty word nowadays. Maybe they won't.

The world DOES care. :3dglasses Brand loyalty can disappear if the brand loses it's appeal. That's why the US automakers are going broke -- talk about corporations that loosened standards and went down the tubes.

If I hire someone and they lie while working for me, I'm responsible. I take it seriously. If misinformation of even the slightest bit occurs, I make sure all employees are correctly informed so it doesn't happen again. That's harder for a big company, but the GOAL should be there.

Entropy. Looks like it applies to corporations as well as entire universes.

[disneynutz]

Well maybe, just maybe, some of their management will strive to uphold a high standard and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY -- I know that is a dirty word nowadays. Maybe they won't.

The world DOES care. :3dglasses Brand loyalty can disappear if the brand loses it's appeal. That's why the US automakers are going broke -- talk about corporations that loosened standards and went down the tubes.

If I hire someone and they lie while working for me, I'm responsible. I take it seriously. If misinformation of even the slightest bit occurs, I make sure all employees are correctly informed so it doesn't happen again. That's harder for a big company, but the GOAL should be there.

Entropy. Looks like it applies to corporations as well as entire universes.

Making money, or greed has changed the way companies and governments do business. They have made ridicules sums of money and the expect to keep making it. DVC became a shining star and a money maker for Disney so the pressure is on for them to continue. That's why DVD puts their emphases on sales and much less on MS and maintenance of existing resorts.

[OneMoreTry]

Making money, or greed has changed the way companies and governments do business. They have made ridicules sums of money and the expect to keep making it. DVC became a shining star and a money maker for Disney so the pressure is on for them to continue. That's why DVD puts their emphases on sales and much less on MS and maintenance of existing resorts.

Are you willing to pay higher dues for maintenance?

Do you think DVC is taking your dues and using them to advertise?

Or do you think they are pocketing our dues?

If you answer yes to any, then you need to contact management ad tell them what you think the problem is -- oh and let us know here. Otherwise, realize that maintenance is separate from sales. WE pay for maintenance. Not DVC. We also pay them to manage this for us. I personally don't think they are taking maintenance staff salaried by our dues and putting them to work in sales.

Does anyone know something I don't know here?

[disneynutz]

Are you willing to pay higher dues for maintenance?

Do you think DVC is taking your dues and using them to advertise?

Or do you think they are pocketing our dues?

If you answer yes to any, then you need to contact management ad tell them what you think the problem is -- oh and let us know here. Otherwise, realize that maintenance is separate from sales. WE pay for maintenance. Not DVC. We also pay them to manage this for us. I personally don't think they are taking maintenance staff salaried by our dues and putting them to work in sales.

Does anyone know something I don't know here?

In all honesty we don't know how the accounting in handled. All we know is what we are told, and that isn't very much.

Everyone can agree that many of the resorts are showing wear and most will say it's because the rooms have a 98% occupancy rate. How many are members and how many are cash guests?

It would be really interesting to see a complete audit of the DVC by a outside accounting firm. People trusted Enron, Bernie Madoff, and RCI until they were caught ripping people off.

[Brian Noble]

Does DVC make its audits available? I know folks have gotten ahold of them for other timeshare systems. It's dry reading, but interesting to see where the money goes.