Restarting my question about the impact Harry Potter Land could have

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I asked this question months ago and the consensus seemed to be...."not all that much. I'll go for a day or two".

Right now....Disney cannot afford to loose ONE quest....even for ONE day.

Now that the world's pocketbooks look a little different, let me ask the question again.

Do you think the opening of Harry Potter Land will have an impact on Disney?

:confused3

[lugnut33]

Whatever puts more money in the shareholders pocket is what's important. Don't forget that.

With that said, they can afford to lose guests as long as they keep cutting in other areas, that way the shareholders are happy that their dividends are not being cut.

[doconeill]

If we are going to WDW for at least a week, we expect that at least one day will be spent OUT of the parks. That isn't likely to change.

However, as much as we'd like to check out the HP stuff, we do not plan on going to Universal until both kids are able to ride all the attractions there.

Plus, given the size of the place now (DW and I haven't been there since '97, much different then), I'd expect to spend two days there and probably a night at the hotel there, so in that sense WDW might lose a day from me.

We're doing a day at Sea World in April (also haven't been there since '97, very much different now).

[Peter Pirate 2]

It'll have a short term moderate effect I think.

But MH you must know that Universal Orlando cannot really afford to lose even one guest either BUT the fact that in these economic hard times they are improving their lot, not only with HP but with the new coaster at USO which will open in March, says something about current Universal management vs. current Disney management, I think.

Combine those issues with the way City Walk greeted PI refugees and you have one Company who is trying at least a little bit and it's not Disney...

Iger's a slug (haven't said it for awhile).

pirate:

[zulemara]

It'll have a short term moderate effect I think.

But MH you must know that Universal Orlando cannot really afford to lose even one guest either BUT the fact that in these economic hard times they are improving their lot, not only with HP but with the new coaster at USO which will open in March, says something about current Universal management vs. current Disney management, I think.

Combine those issues with the way City Walk greeted PI refugees and you have one Company who is trying at least a little bit and it's not Disney...

Iger's a slug (haven't said it for awhile).

pirate:

AMEN!

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Combine those issues with the way City Walk greeted PI refugees and you have one Company who is trying at least a little bit and it's not Disney...

Universal Studios Florida will never be (and can never be) what Walt Disney World is. But they are a powerhouse nonetheless that is taking away 1-2 days of visitor stays away from the Mouse. And that translates to $millions. The investments being made right now could very easily steal a 3rd day away from Disney visitors staying a week in town. Universal is displaying a confidence in the future and is aggressively going after families (with HP) and teens/young adults (with the new rocket coaster). Meanwhile Disney is doing very little investing in future attractions and of course completely abandoned the adult late-evening market.

BobK/Orlando

[Peter Pirate 2]

Universal Studios Florida will never be (and can never be) what Walt Disney World is. But they are a powerhouse nonetheless that is taking away 1-2 days of visitor stays away from the Mouse. And that translates to $millions. The investments being made right now could very easily steal a 3rd day away from Disney visitors staying a week in town. Universal is displaying a confidence in the future and is aggressively going after families (with HP) and teens/young adults (with the new rocket coaster). Meanwhile Disney is doing very little investing in future attractions and of course completely abandoned the adult late-evening market.

BobK/Orlando

Totally agree. :thumbsup2 I don't mean to intimate that Universal is Disney but in Orlando they are pushing Disney WAY, WAY, WAY more than I ever thought possible! If WDW had just maintained their normal business posture Universal would have never had a shot. But Disney got greedy and cocky and some geniuses (Iger) decided that the Disney BRAND was so GRRRREAT it couldn't be touched. Wrong.

Iger's a slug.
pirate:

[Uncleromulus]

Short answer-no. Maybe short term, but I'm of the opinion Potter won't have much staying power over time.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Totally agree. :thumbsup2 I don't mean to intimate that Universal is Disney but in Orlando they are pushing Disney WAY, WAY, WAY more than I ever thought possible! If WDW had just maintained their normal business posture Universal would have never had a shot. But Disney got greedy and cocky and some geniuses (Iger) decided that the Disney BRAND was so GRRRREAT it couldn't be touched. Wrong.

Iger's a slug.
pirate:


DITTO X 10

Universal's hotels are WAY better...bigger rooms plus they have something Disney cannot offer....FRONT OF THE LINE. Their rides are WAY better than Disney's and Universal is continuing to invest in their property.

Problem now...how many children read Harry Potter books....wait until THOSE commercials hit the televisions. Kids are going to BEG to go to Harry Potter.


When times were good, Disney steadily took away perks from their loyal guests. Universal Studios started building a new theme park.

[lugnut33]

It doesn't matter as long as the shareholders are happy. What I learned in the another thread is Disney only can listen to the shareholder or they'll be thrown in jail. Doesn't matter if anyone goes to the parks, as long as the shareholder is placated.

[jarrdisney]

Disney can not hold a candle to Harry Potter right now. There's not a doubt in my mind it will hurt them. Guests that usually stay on disney property one week, might do disney 4 days and universal 3. Disney has made some real poor desicions over the past couple years, and while I still love WDW, I hope they learn from their mistakes.

[CoP Luv]

We are heading down this fall probably and I would love to go back to US (haven't been there in about 15 years!) for Harry Potter. I am a HUGE fan!

[doconeill]

It doesn't matter as long as the shareholders are happy. What I learned in the another thread is Disney only can listen to the shareholder or they'll be thrown in jail. Doesn't matter if anyone goes to the parks, as long as the shareholder is placated.

It isn't quite a "go to jail" situation, but it is a problem nowadays. If a corporation does not do what the shareholders deem is necessary for them to preserve their value (stock price, dividends, etc.), they sue the corporation for whatever they call it that week...

[rebecca06261]

We are heading down this fall probably and I would love to go back to US (haven't been there in about 15 years!) for Harry Potter. I am a HUGE fan!

HP will be opening in 2010 :thumbsup2

[Goofy'slady]

While it won't change how we do Disney(none in my family really likes US and we're not fans of HP) I do think it will have an affect on Disney. There are alot of HP fans young and old alike and they will be flocking to see Harry Potter Land for a few years to come and this will take money away from Disney - anyone with half a brain can see that:confused3 . With that said I do think it will force Disney to keep things interesting througout the parks and resorts to keep people on property and I for one would be interested in what those things could be and at what cost to us the consumer.

I will admit that PI never really held my interest enough to visit more than the one time I did, but that was when I was around 21; now that I'm 32 and value actually spending adult time with my husband and even some friends I just might give City Walk ago in the near future. However, I'm just as interested in seeing what new dining and shops Disney has in store for what was PI and I'm sure I'll spend time there with my entire family as well.

T.

[redrosesix]

If it is open in time for our next trip Feb. 2010, we plan to stay 1 week there, so 1 less week at WDW (depending on the hotels, etc. that we have yet to look into) So instead of a 7 day park pass, we will likely do only 2-3 at WDW. We have been putting off Universal until this is opened. I don't even dare tell my little "Hermione" about it -- she would be way too excited.

BTW, HP is way more popular here than all of the Disney films put together, especially among older kids. It is now a rite of passage to be able to read HP on one's own.

[zulemara]

However, I'm just as interested in seeing what new dining and shops Disney has in store for what was PI and I'm sure I'll spend time there with my entire family as well.

T.

don't hold your breath. Would that be the Hanes T-shirt shop located in the marketplace(note: NOT on PI) or the giant blimp ride that's on the west side(note: NOT on PI) Funny...nothing they have announced is even ON PI other than the food court they are building. Good job Disney execs, you get a gold star :thumbsup2

Go Universal is all I can say. While Disney is trying to homogenize their parks worldwide, Universal is making unique experiences.

I will say, though, that nothing can replace the atmosphere, specifically in the Magic Kingdom, that Disney is able to create.

I think it will have some effect on Disney and Disney really needs to be ready to counter it. Saying "but we built TSM 2 years ago" is not gonna cut it with guests.

[DisFlan]

I'd say it depends on what they end up with. The original plans were pretty ambitious. If they've had to cut corners because of the economy and they end up with something less, or slightly cheesier, than people are expecting, its popularity will suffer. (HP fans take their HP pretty seriously. Details matter.)

If it ends up being a full-on, dynamite, well-executed attraction, then they're good to go. It'll be a big draw.


DisFlan

[redrosesix]

I think the test will be whether J K Rowlings signs off on it -- if she looks pleased, I think people will love it. If there are rumours that she is unhappy, WDW has nothing to worry about.

[Padrepride]

Universal Studios Florida will never be (and can never be) what Walt Disney World is. But they are a powerhouse nonetheless that is taking away 1-2 days of visitor stays away from the Mouse. And that translates to $millions. The investments being made right now could very easily steal a 3rd day away from Disney visitors staying a week in town. Universal is displaying a confidence in the future and is aggressively going after families (with HP) and teens/young adults (with the new rocket coaster). Meanwhile Disney is doing very little investing in future attractions and of course completely abandoned the adult late-evening market.

BobK/Orlando

I agree. Disney is doing nothing in terms of attractions for the long-term future. Unless Disney announces something big in this upcoming "Are you 23" announcement, Disney could continue to lose revenue to Universal.

[CoP Luv]

HP will be opening in 2010 :thumbsup2

I knew that!! :rolleyes1 Just Kidding.

:lmao: Thanks for the info!!!

[k5thbeatle]

Short answer-no. Maybe short term, but I'm of the opinion Potter won't have much staying power over time.

I agree with this 100%. It has always been my opinion that the whole HP thing will pass with time.

[redrosesix]

I agree with this 100%. It has always been my opinion that the whole HP thing will pass with time.

Funny. HP seems to be gaining in popularity in a lot of places. :confused3

We are planning to go to US not because of the movies, but because of the books.

[Peter Pirate 2]

I agree with this 100%. It has always been my opinion that the whole HP thing will pass with time.

But so does most of the stuff Disney gives us. There are very few Mickey and Minnies.
pirate:

[k5thbeatle]

But so does most of the stuff Disney gives us. There are very few Mickey and Minnies.
pirate:


This is true. Plus I believe we live in an era where people (kids) have so much stuff shoved at them and are exposed to so much that it's hard to garner more than "their 15 minutes of fame"?

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

But so does most of the stuff Disney gives us. There are very few Mickey and Minnies.

The kids of today have probably never even seen a movie with Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck in it yet they are the successful focus of the entire Disney empire. So when you take something like the Harry Potter series which an entire generation has read or watched and then turn THAT into a theme park, you're talking a HUGE success. HP Land is going to be very successful with decades of staying power. This should not be underestimated.

BobK/Orlando

[k5thbeatle]

I guess only time will tell?:scratchin

[Metro West]

I think the test will be whether J K Rowlings signs off on it -- if she looks pleased, I think people will love it. If there are rumours that she is unhappy, WDW has nothing to worry about. With her involvement with this project believe me...she won't sign off on anything unless it meets her approval. :thumbsup2

The kids of today have probably never even seen a movie with Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck in it yet they are the successful focus of the entire Disney empire. So when you take something like the Harry Potter series which an entire generation has read or watched and then turn THAT into a theme park, you're talking a HUGE success. HP Land is going to be very successful with decades of staying power. This should not be underestimated. ::yes::

[doconeill]

Random, semi-off topic thoughts...

It's one thing to have "classic" characters who you may not see frequently if at all on today's TV, but know what they are and understand their importance when you do.

It's another thing to have characters that are 100% permeated into the culture, are on TV near 24 hours a day, have tons of merchandise, etc.

It's neat to see those latter characters in real life, but is it as special? I think my kids at least understand the difference.

I was reminded of this earlier this week when some channel (ABCFam?) was showing "Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory". I remember it being a special treat to be able to see it, and "Wizard Of Oz" on TV, often around holidays, because they would only be shown that once a year. Now cable and cheap video/DVD has made that irrelevant. Much the same with holiday specials.

[k5thbeatle]

Random, semi-off topic thoughts...

It's one thing to have "classic" characters who you may not see frequently if at all on today's TV, but know what they are and understand their importance when you do.

It's another thing to have characters that are 100% permeated into the culture, are on TV near 24 hours a day, have tons of merchandise, etc.

It's neat to see those latter characters in real life, but is it as special? I think my kids at least understand the difference.

I was reminded of this earlier this week when some channel (ABCFam?) was showing "Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory". I remember it being a special treat to be able to see it, and "Wizard Of Oz" on TV, often around holidays, because they would only be shown that once a year. Now cable and cheap video/DVD has made that irrelevant. Much the same with holiday specials.

Very eloquently said. That's kind of what I was thinking too...but it's a different era now? No doubt HP will be big...and maybe for a very long time? Only time will tell but it seems as if the public's attention span is shorter these days as you mentioned these things are on tv almost all the time and the "special treat" aspect, as you put it, seems to be gone? Plus something new is constantly coming down the pike! (I had to laugh as I remember as a kid that when the Wizard of Oz was on it was a big event as we'd all go over to my grandma's house to watch it and were treated to ice cream and cake she would make for all the kids)

[Peter Pirate 2]

The kids of today have probably never even seen a movie with Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck in it yet they are the successful focus of the entire Disney empire. So when you take something like the Harry Potter series which an entire generation has read or watched and then turn THAT into a theme park, you're talking a HUGE success. HP Land is going to be very successful with decades of staying power. This should not be underestimated.

BobK/Orlando

Agreed.

I get that most kids today haven't seen Mickey movies but they do know who he is very well. Other generational cartoons like Dudley Do-Right or fad shows like High School Musical will not live on for generations. Even Song of The South means nothing to most people who ride Splash Mountain.

I think HP could be many generational but IMO the jury is out based on how well it is done. It makes sense with what they've done lately it will be done well but so far not many rides have been announced and just good theming won't take you far, I mean IOA is themed very, very well and that hasn't stopped the naysayers from pointing out its other flaws.
pirate:

[Uncleromulus]

I can't speak for the kids of course, or even other adults. But I haven't read even one Potter book and only saw the very first movie. It was good, but hardly the stuff of which legends are made.
It'll probably do very well at Universal until another fad comes along to take it's place. As was pointed out, the public attention span is quite short.

No fad, however, can take the place of Mickey!!

[redrosesix]

I can't help thinking that WDW has basically walked away from the audience that HP would appeal to. The Narnia ride pretty much sucks, and they have apparently abandoned plans to build the Beastly Kingdom section of AK.

Whether they chose not to compete in that market is anybody's guess, but I'm quite sure they have underestimated how much of a draw it will be. As the OP stated, they cannot afford to lose even 1 guest for a day. And with the US economy as it is, they will have to find more to appeal to international fans to make up the difference.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I get that most kids today haven't seen Mickey movies but they do know who he is very well.

True. My DS knows who Mickey is but if I ask him why Mickey is famous, I would guess he would say it's because he's at Disney World. He wouldn't be able to name a single film that the mouse ever stared in.

Of course there are many younger people too who love The Jaws ride but probably never saw the movie.

BobK/Orlando

[Peter Pirate 2]

True. My DS knows who Mickey is but if I ask him why Mickey is famous, I would guess he would say it's because he's at Disney World. He wouldn't be able to name a single film that the mouse ever stared in.

Of course there are many younger people too who love The Jaws ride but probably never saw the movie.

BobK/Orlando

I think that is the point!
pirate:

[Tramp&TheLady]

I don't think it will make any difference at all. In fact, who's to say that Universal will even be able to finish that park. I heard some time ago that Universal is having some serious financial troubles. If that's true, they may abandon or significantly limit what this park has to offer. I think that Disney knows what is best. They don't have to react to what Universal does. It's the other way around.

[redrosesix]

I don't think it will make any difference at all. In fact, who's to say that Universal will even be able to finish that park. I heard some time ago that Universal is having some serious financial troubles. If that's true, they may abandon or significantly limit what this park has to offer. I think that Disney knows what is best. They don't have to react to what Universal does. It's the other way around.

Well...except for delaying the official opening from Fall of 2009 to sometime in 2010, it appears that construction is going ahead as planned. In fact, according to the local press, they were just granted another round of building permits for accessory buildings to house props, etc. It seems to me that there has been a lot more information about their progress on the HP sites, including some of the menu items. Not a big deal to WDW fans, but I assure you they are a very big deal to HP fans (I know, my best friend is one of them)

WDW may have nothing to worry about, since it appears to me that HP is not as popular there as it is here. However, US may never have financial troubles again if they pull this off right. I hadn't had that they were having serious financial problems.

[Peter Pirate 2]

I don't think it will make any difference at all. In fact, who's to say that Universal will even be able to finish that park. I heard some time ago that Universal is having some serious financial troubles. If that's true, they may abandon or significantly limit what this park has to offer. I think that Disney knows what is best. They don't have to react to what Universal does. It's the other way around.


???Very old rumors methinks.

Universal is on top of things currently way more than Disney. Just take note of what they're doing.

If HP is done right it will solidify Universal's position even though it really has no direct relevance to WDW.
pirate:

[SurfinTX]

Well the Harry Potter opening in 2010 directly effected our trip in Aug 2009. We cancelled our on-site stay of 7 days and will now split stay at both parks that summer.

For me Universal has much more to offer a thrill seeker and 4 of the 6 in our group are more interested in the HP books and movies than Disney for at least 8 years now. Disney has completely missed the boat for the 10-17 year old male. I-Carley, Hannah M. and Wizards of Waverly Place keep the girls and pre-teens happy but beyond Pixar what can keep the interest of a 14 y.o. boy who likes to ride thrill rides?

[JennaTX]

Well the Harry Potter opening in 2010 directly effected our trip in Aug 2009. We cancelled our on-site stay of 7 days and will now split stay at both parks that summer.

For me Universal has much more to offer a thrill seeker and 4 of the 6 in our group are more interested in the HP books and movies than Disney for at least 8 years now. Disney has completely missed the boat for the 10-17 year old male. I-Carley, Hannah M. and Wizards of Waverly Place keep the girls and pre-teens happy but beyond Pixar what can keep the interest of a 14 y.o. boy who likes to ride thrill rides?


Like you we will be going to HP opening and maybe spending a few days at WDW then also. But we are going mainly for HP (and we have never been to Universal).

But I do think that Disney is trying to get the boys back into Disney with the new Disney XD and the shows that they are putting out.

[Babsicles]

Here's the one thing that WDW has above Universal. Their quality! We've been to both, and I have to say all we do is point out things and say "you'd never see something like that at Disney". Maybe Universal has a few more thrill rides, but they don't appeal to the whole family (children, parents and grandparents). We just got back from our trip and I said to my husband I feel the safest at WDW. I am a huge Harry Potter fan! I will go check it out, but I doubt it will have me coming back for more, or counting down to my next trip. :)

[arazamataz]

Looking forward to HP. We stay 2 day a Universal And 5-6 at Disney. It's

great to have different parks to go to and enjoy the best that each offer.



:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[lori60]

I do know how the economy affected one group that will be in Orlando next week. A group of four will be staying in a time share in Orlando (after a bargain cruise the prior week). They had limited funds for theme parks. After helping them plan a day trip to hunt sharks teeth at Venice on Florida's west coast, I sat with them and really hoped to get them to Disney. The Universal $99 for an entire week could not be beat. So for the first time I actually suggested Universal over Disney for financial reasons. :sad2:
These people were not Disney hooked (yet) and I knew I couldn't get them more than a day at Disney within their budget. When this trip was planned a year ago they expected to have plenty of spendable income to visit any park they wanted. They also had to plan on no extras on the cruise, just the basics that were offered as part of the cruise. Interesting changes for a group that normally lived large on their vacations.

Tying this back to when HP opens I think it could have a major effect on Disney, especially if the economy it still in the crapper. It's is all about the biggest bang for your buck.

[Luv2Roam]

Disney cannot afford to loose ONE guest

Agree with others. If Disney was really concerned about losing even one guest they would not have turned PI into what it is now -- a ghost town. They easily handed over a lot of revenue to CW/USO.
They just look at the bottom line.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Here's the one thing that WDW has above Universal. Their quality! We've been to both, and I have to say all we do is point out things and say "you'd never see something like that at Disney".

This really bothers me ... "all you do" at Universal is point out your perceived dificiencies compared to WDW???:confused3 Why bother going anywhere else I wonder.:confused3

I guarntee I could walk with you through Magic Kindom and I could keep talking from start to back about how much things have changed for the worse over the years. So it's all really perspective isn't it? And our personal perspective is not really the point because we all will have different personal likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with quality per se.

Universal, especially IOA is themed to the hilt, just not Disney characters. Now maybe it's not your cup of tea but don't label it inferior or not "quality" just because you don't like it.
pirate:

[disneyfan67]

I don't think it will make any difference at all. In fact, who's to say that Universal will even be able to finish that park. I heard some time ago that Universal is having some serious financial troubles. If that's true, they may abandon or significantly limit what this park has to offer. I think that Disney knows what is best. They don't have to react to what Universal does. It's the other way around.


I haven't heard of any financial problems facing Universal and while everyone is feeling the pinch including Disney, Universal seems poised to weather the storm.

As for Disney not having to react to what Universal does, that might have been true 20 plus years ago, but times have changed. Universal studios has become a major player in the Orlando tourism market. USO is a far different experience now, than it was when it opened in 1990. In fact everything changed for the better since IOA opened in 1999 and they have been making progress ever since. If they keep adding attractions and improving/updating current attractions, then they will continue to chip away at WDW customer base. That's not opinion or speculation either, that's a fact. Disney is focusing too much on brand names like HSM and Hannah Montana, etc, and while it's making them money, it's not doing anything for the theme parks or adding exciting E ticket attractions. That kind of business model can hurt a the company in the long run.

In the early 1990's Universal studios was almost a punch line to a joke, but not anymore. I had a chance to visit them in the summer of 2007 and as a die hard Disney fan of Disney theme parks, I came away with a positive impression. USO is not a Six Flags theme park by any means. The 3 onsite hotels on USO property were very beautiful and could be had for a cheaper price than a Disney Deluxe. Bottom line there's a lot to like at Universal and as long as they keep improving and keep it affordable, they have me as a loyal customer. I'm only spending two days at WDW this year and a bulk of my vacation will be spent at USO. Disney is a beautiful place to visit, but they are no longer the only game in town.

[redrosesix]

This really bothers me ... "all you do" at Universal is point out your perceived dificiencies compared to WDW???:confused3 Why bother going anywhere else I wonder.:confused3

I guarntee I could walk with you through Magic Kindom and I could keep talking from start to back about how much things have changed for the worse over the years. So it's all really perspective isn't it? And our personal perspective is not really the point because we all will have different personal likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with quality per se.

Universal, especially IOA is themed to the hilt, just not Disney characters. Now maybe it's not your cup of tea but don't label it inferior or not "quality" just because you don't like it.
pirate:

:thumbsup2

I feel the need to point out to the nay-sayers that WDW did try to get the theme park rights to HP, but that discussions broke down when JK Rowlings stuck to her guns on the details. Good thing for HP fans, who were scared they would get a watered-down, disney-fied version of their beloved characters and settings. As a result, rather than getting a couple of themed rides (maybe, if WDW exercised their rights and had actually followed through on building the new rides) HP fans are getting a whole HP land at the Wizarding World.

According to Jim Hill, WDC is worried enough about this project that they are considering a complete revamping of Adventureland to further capitalize on the popularity of POTC. Problem is, US is nearing completion of their project and WDW has yet to start this.

[maryfree]

A Universal stay,is a wonderful alternative to WDW...I happen to love them both and I have stayed at deluxe hotels at WDW since 1976, I believe that WDW is just asking too much for a hotel room at The Polynesian(My personal favorite) I just cant justify the cost anymore,for what I am getting. Last visit I rented a home (10 minutes away) at a fraction of the cost for what a Garden View room at the Poly would cost,than I just visited the Poly for a drink at Tambu a few times to help me get the feeling...but another way that I get the south seas feeling is staying at The Royal Pacific at UO...it has a great "Casablanca 1940s" feel to it,and is also much cheaper than staying at The Poly....I am a GIGANTIC WDW fan, but I must say that if WDW does not start making it reasonable to stay on thier own property than they can expect Universal to continue to cut into thier profit margin in the future....and remember for us fans...COMPETITION IS GOOD!!

[M5ward]

I think we would probably go to see HP at Universal on a couple of our trips to the World, but we wouldn't stay at Universal. WDW is "Home" and even Harry Potter won't change that. We'd probably spend a day or two there initially...then the novelty would probably wear off. Nothing beats that mouse!

[Peter Pirate 2]

...then the novelty would probably wear off. Nothing beats that mouse!

Unless the novelty has worn off.:rolleyes:
pirate:

[redrosesix]

Unless the novelty has worn off.:rolleyes:
pirate:

:rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[disneyfan67]

I think we would probably go to see HP at Universal on a couple of our trips to the World, but we wouldn't stay at Universal. WDW is "Home" and even Harry Potter won't change that. We'd probably spend a day or two there initially...then the novelty would probably wear off. Nothing beats that mouse!



You should take two days of your time and try out one of the 3 hotels on Universal property. They're beautifully themed, the pools are beyond awesome, and you can legally pool hop to the other two hotel pools to check them out.

Your room key acts as a ultimate express pass which means hardly no waiting. You can ride any ride as much as you want and you can come and go as you please. Plus all 3 resort hotels are all in walking distance of the two parks. It's a great addition to any WDW vacation and makes for a stress free time at Universal. It would be costly and time consuming to shuttle back between WDW and Universal. That's why I recommend taking two days or so from a week long WDW and use them onsite at USO.

As a huge Disney fan I thought I would never try Universal, let alone stay onsite there, but I finally broke down and tried it. I was really surprised at the overall quality and value I found there. The Portofino Bay hotel was one of the nicest hotels I ever stayed at and I got it at a great rate. I now make it a point to do a split stay when I visit Orlando. There's plenty enough room in Orlando for both WDW and USO and when you do it like my family does, it really adds to the vacation. There's no law saying you have to choose only one company and dislike the other. They're both very unique places to visit and they also have their own special qualities about them.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

You'd never see something like that at Disney.

1. A night club district where adults can go out on their own in the later evening and be entertained in a secure environment with dance clubs and comedy clubs.

2. A live band that is playing in front of hundreds of on-lookers and passers-by of ALL ages, for FREE, without concern that it might cause a few teens to congregate or a child might actually witness someone drinking a beer.

3. New rides under construction.

Yup, you'd never see something like that at Disney!

BobK/Orlando

[Babsicles]

This really bothers me ... "all you do" at Universal is point out your perceived dificiencies compared to WDW???:confused3 Why bother going anywhere else I wonder.:confused3

I guarntee I could walk with you through Magic Kindom and I could keep talking from start to back about how much things have changed for the worse over the years. So it's all really perspective isn't it? And our personal perspective is not really the point because we all will have different personal likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with quality per se.

Universal, especially IOA is themed to the hilt, just not Disney characters. Now maybe it's not your cup of tea but don't label it inferior or not "quality" just because you don't like it.
pirate:


Actually I never said I didn't like Universal. I said I wouldn't spend more than a day or two there.
As far as quality, I have been going to WDW for nearly 32 years, every year. I have seen things change, trust me. However, WDW still upholds a certain level of cleanliness, that you don't find in a lot of other parks. Even their "cast members" have a special quality that keeps you coming back. I understand everyone has an opinion, which is why I'm voicing mine. My family prefers WDW. We appreciate their level of standards. :thumbsup2

[zulemara]

1. A night club district where adults can go out on their own in the later evening and be entertained in a secure environment with dance clubs and comedy clubs.

2. A live band that is playing in front of hundreds of on-lookers and passers-by of ALL ages, for FREE, without concern that it might cause a few teens to congregate or a child might actually witness someone drinking a beer.

3. New rides under construction.

Yup, you'd never see something like that at Disney!

BobK/Orlando

/cry all that's left is atlantic Dance and Jelly Rolls!

[Uncleromulus]

Just to add that I have nothing against Universal/IOA. We go there once every 4-5 years just to see what's new. A nice way to spend a few hours.

[patsal]

For my family there may be an impact on WDW. I will purchase 7 day non hopping non expiry passes rather than PAP's, I will spend 10 nights at DVC rather than 14 and 4 nights at Universal. If the HP area lives up to its potential, the books are great pieces of literature that got a generation excited about reading, then the area may be very well received. I would not cound Universal out of the game--Disney could vcome back with something m but I am not willing to hold my breath. The Narnia attractions were a travesty, and the closing of PI made no sense. Only time will tell!

[Mouseaholic!!!]

You should take two days of your time and try out one of the 3 hotels on Universal property. They're beautifully themed, the pools are beyond awesome, and you can legally pool hop to the other two hotel pools to check them out.

Your room key acts as a ultimate express pass which means hardly no waiting. You can ride any ride as much as you want and you can come and go as you please. Plus all 3 resort hotels are all in walking distance of the two parks. It's a great addition to any WDW vacation and makes for a stress free time at Universal. It would be costly and time consuming to shuttle back between WDW and Universal. That's why I recommend taking two days or so from a week long WDW and use them onsite at USO.

As a huge Disney fan I thought I would never try Universal, let alone stay onsite there, but I finally broke down and tried it. I was really surprised at the overall quality and value I found there. The Portofino Bay hotel was one of the nicest hotels I ever stayed at and I got it at a great rate. I now make it a point to do a split stay when I visit Orlando. There's plenty enough room in Orlando for both WDW and USO and when you do it like my family does, it really adds to the vacation. There's no law saying you have to choose only one company and dislike the other. They're both very unique places to visit and they also have their own special qualities about them.


Ah another open-minded Disney fan. Nice to know there are a few of us here.

You are the WDW guest that the Disney folks have sleepless nights over.

The loss of one day is not good, and in other economies, is survivable. To loose a dedicated Disney guest to US for part of the trip on a regular basis....is the beginning of a very bad trend.....at a very bad time to weather that trend.

My DH is the US fan in our marriage. He's right, Disney hotels just don't complete and the FOTL is wonderful.

[patsal]

Ah another open-minded Disney fan. Nice to know there are a few of us here.

You are the WDW guest that the Disney folks have sleepless nights over.

The loss of one day is not good, and in other economies, is survivable. To loose a dedicated Disney guest to US for part of the trip on a regular basis....is the beginning of a very bad trend.....at a very bad time to weather that trend.

My DH is the US fan in our marriage. He's right, Disney hotels just don't complete and the FOTL is wonderful.

So true on the resort end of things--I have never expereinced the level of service or the accomadations available at US while on a Disney vacation. It is very easy for me to get very spoiled there!

[Peter Pirate 2]

I've been preaching to deaf ears for the longest time about how WDW treats the local visitor. Now I know out of Staters don't want to hear it as we already get deep discounts over you but the fact is they aren't good enough especially when you consider how often we might come if properly enticed.

Universal rolls out the red carpet for us knowing that we will come and spend money for snacks and meals on a regular basis if they give us what we need. They do. the AP's for USO are practically free compared to the Seasonal AP's that WDW keeps raising the rate on.

Let's don't even talk about dining. OK, let's do. IT used to be so great. Flying Fish, Artist Point, 'Ohana, Teppenyaki, Jiko, Boma, Le Celliar ... I had so many to go to. Now we can't even get reservations at most of them and even if we could why would we need to mix it up? They serve the same thing at virtually every restaurant (and yes there is a bit of hyperbole in that statement).

WDW has bult itself into a nice replica of Wal Mart. Give the masses a semblence of quality or the impression of a good deal and watch them go to town. Funny thing though, when the masses stop coming you've not only lost the those crowds but the ability to market to the local or discerning traveller who is smart enough to not be fooled by your smoke and mirrors. Those whom you chased off with your ridiculous dining plans, generic menus, blackout dates and high prices.

I still love Disney but most of the love is what I remember from past experiences and not too much from recent visits.
pirate:

[redrosesix]

I've been preaching to deaf ears for the longest time about how WDW treats the local visitor. Now I know out of Staters don't want to hear it as we already get deep discounts over you but the fact is they aren't good enough especially when you consider how often we might come if properly enticed.

Universal rolls out the red carpet for us knowing that we will come and spend money for snacks and meals on a regular basis if they give us what we need. They do. the AP's for USO are practically free compared to the Seasonal AP's that WDW keeps raising the rate on.

Let's don't even talk about dining. OK, let's do. IT used to be so great. Flying Fish, Artist Point, 'Ohana, Teppenyaki, Jiko, Boma, Le Celliar ... I had so many to go to. Now we can't even get reservations at most of them and even if we could why would we need to mix it up? They serve the same thing at virtually every restaurant (and yes there is a bit of hyperbole in that statement).

WDW has bult itself into a nice replica of Wal Mart. Give the masses a semblence of quality or the impression of a good deal and watch them go to town. Funny thing though, when the masses stop coming you've not only lost the those crowds but the ability to market to the local or discerning traveller who is smart enough to not be fooled by your smoke and mirrors. Those whom you chased off with your ridiculous dining plans, generic menus, blackout dates and high prices.

I still love Disney but most of the love is what I remember from past experiences and not too much from recent visits.
pirate:

Interesting points you bring up. And if you think the same menus are served at restaurants for adults, let's think about the kids' meals too. I know that some parents say their kids are on vacation so they can eat hot dogs and chicken strips for a week, but mine just won't do it -- that much junk is enough to make a child ill. I know she would rather eat at the HP restaurants they are planning, apparently based on traditional Scottish fare. Smart!

In fact, while planning our trip for next year, I have been looking into the menu options at US, including the meal plan ($20.99 to eat all day, and not having to eat a dessert at every meal). WDW has become so inflexible with its dining options that many people have become disastisfied for many reasons. I can't imagine what it's like to be staying in a Deluxe resort and not even be able to eat in that resorts TS restaurants without making an ADR 90 days in advance.

[disneyfan67]

Ah another open-minded Disney fan. Nice to know there are a few of us here.

You are the WDW guest that the Disney folks have sleepless nights over.

The loss of one day is not good, and in other economies, is survivable. To loose a dedicated Disney guest to US for part of the trip on a regular basis....is the beginning of a very bad trend.....at a very bad time to weather that trend.

My DH is the US fan in our marriage. He's right, Disney hotels just don't complete and the FOTL is wonderful.



First off, thank you and it always amazing to be how some Disney fans get up in arms and become so rigid when any talk of Universal Orlando is brought up. Over the years here I have seen many threads get nasty and eventually get locked when that very debate is brought up.

If the Disney folks are losing sleep over a loyal customer starting to travel over to USO, they don't have far to look when placing blame. All the upper management has to do is look in the mirror to see the person to blame. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy going to WDW and have a love for it, but I'm not blinded by it or in a honeymoon phase like some are. Disney has taken people like me for granted for far too long and made decisions and changes that have left me feeling cold at times. They did a lot of these changes when the economy was good, what are they going to do now that it has hit the skids? Make the food and the dining plan even worse? Relabel old rides/attractions with more of Stitch? More attractions like the American Idol experience? Yuck!:scared:

After my first onsite, two day visit to USO and then moving on to WDW for the remainder of the week, I realised where Disney has and is still going off track. USO isn't a perfect place nor am I a diehard fan of theirs, but they do enough right, to offset what they do wrong. Some of their attractions were top notch, high tech, and the 3 onsite resorts were a much better bargain than I got from a Disney deluxe. The 3 hotels on Universal property are very nice and comparable in every way to a Disney deluxe. Loews knows how to run a hotel and my family I enjoyed our stay at the Portofino Bay very much. Plus we got a deluxe room for $239 a night, the room was huge, and the free express pass was awesome. They have some pretty good food options as well. Visiting USO and staying onsite has made my Florida vacation better, not taken anything away from it.

I will longer stay exclusively on WDW property and be hostage to Disney. There's too much good at USO to pass it up because of my love for Disney and their theme parks. I think if some of the Disney fanatics were to open their minds a little and take off the blinders they will see there's room for both companies, in their vacation plans. Competition will force Disney to be a better company and run the parks better than they currently do. When that happens we all win as consumers.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

First off, thank you and it always amazing to be how some Disney fans get up in arms and become so rigid when any talk of Universal Orlando is brought up. Over the years here I have seen many threads get nasty and eventually get locked when that very debate is brought up.

If the Disney folks are losing sleep over a loyal customer starting to travel over to USO, they don't have far to look when placing blame. All the upper management has to do is look in the mirror to see the person to blame. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy going to WDW and have a love for it, but I'm not blinded by it or in a honeymoon phase like some are. Disney has taken people like me for granted for far too long and made decisions and changes that have left me feeling cold at times. They did a lot of these changes when the economy was good, what are they going to do now that it has hit the skids? Make the food and the dining plan even worse? Relabel old rides/attractions with more of Stitch? More attractions like the American Idol experience? Yuck!:scared:

After my first onsite, two day visit to USO and then moving on to WDW for the remainder of the week, I realised where Disney has and is still going off track. USO isn't a perfect place nor am I a diehard fan of theirs, but they do enough right, to offset what they do wrong. Some of their attractions were top notch, high tech, and the 3 onsite resorts were a much better bargain than I got from a Disney deluxe. The 3 hotels on Universal property are very nice and comparable in every way to a Disney deluxe. Loews knows how to run a hotel and my family I enjoyed our stay at the Portofino Bay very much. Plus we got a deluxe room for $239 a night, the room was huge, and the free express pass was awesome. They have some pretty good food options as well. Visiting USO and staying onsite has made my Florida vacation better, not taken anything away from it.

I will longer stay exclusively on WDW property and be hostage to Disney. There's too much good at USO to pass it up because of my love for Disney and their theme parks. I think if some of the Disney fanatics were to open their minds a little and take off the blinders they will see there's room for both companies, in their vacation plans. Competition will force Disney to be a better company and run the parks better than they currently do. When that happens we all win as consumers.



THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH.......let's hope someone at Disney is listening!

[redrosesix]

Just an observation: Currently US's only 3 hotels are priced out of the budgets of many families, including mine since we like to vacation for well over a week. Although they have their "partner hotels" this is just not the same thing as the official hotels eg. no US theming, no front of the line pass, etc. So, in a way they are still not tapping into the Value and Moderate guest customers.

Sure, they are offering some deep discounts now. But when the HP attraction officially opens, I can see them charging top dollar for all of their rooms, no matter what is happening in the economy.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Just an observation: Currently US's only 3 hotels are priced out of the budgets of many families, including mine since we like to vacation for well over a week. Although they have their "partner hotels" this is just not the same thing as the official hotels eg. no US theming, no front of the line pass, etc. So, in a way they are still not tapping into the Value and Moderate guest customers.

Sure, they are offering some deep discounts now. But when the HP attraction officially opens, I can see them charging top dollar for all of their rooms, no matter what is happening in the economy.

True, but only if the crowds come and in this economy I can see this being sporadic at best.

Re: FOTL, the only reason it works is because it's fairly limited. If they add more hotels or start selling the add on's too cheap it will eventually defeat the purpose and become a moot selling point. So IMO they have to protect the sanctity of FOTL and not get too greedy with it.
pirate:

[redrosesix]

True, but only if the crowds come and in this economy I can see this being sporadic at best.

Re: FOTL, the only reason it works is because it's fairly limited. If they add more hotels or start selling the add on's too cheap it will eventually defeat the purpose and become a moot selling point. So IMO they have to protect the sanctity of FOTL and not get too greedy with it.
pirate:

Which is why we'll only be staying at one of the official hotels for a few nights -- that pass is worth $150 if you buy it separately. We won't spend 2 weeks at US like we would at WDW.

[skier_pete]

Hey folks - is it just me or has this thread gone way OT -> seems like folks are just bashing / defending WDW or US. :confused3

Whatever, let's get back to the original statement. First off, I think there is some deception / mis-representation about Harry-Potter land...Universal is NOT opening a new theme park for this...it is going to be one of the lands within Islands of Adventure. From what I understand...there are going to be 2 or 3 rides, and essentially a shopping district. I believe one of those rides is just a re-theming of Dueling Dragons coaster. Unless I am mis-interpreting what has been shown so far.

So, short_term, I think a good marketing campaign will take *some* business away from Disney...you will get some people that don't bother with Universal to try it for a day or two. You will get a few people that have been there before giving it another try. It will likely not add significant park days at Universal to most people's trips. (If they were originally not going...they might go 1 or 2 days...if they were already planning on going...it probably won't change the # of days or add 1 day.)

I think longer term, the effect will be minimal once people realize that Harry Potter land is a 2-3 hour section of your vacation. People that like Universal's style (more thrill - less family) will continue to spend some time there, while others won't.

Here's a little more stats...US/IoA has 11.6 miilion visitor-days of attendance a year. The 4 WDW theme parks have 46.9 million. Let's say Harry Potter "bumps" Universal by 10 %, a HUGE # that I'm sure execs there would be thrilled about. A increase of 1.2 million visitor-days!

Well..IF...and here's a big IF, EVERY single one of those visitor-days were taken from WDW attendence, Disney would see a total drop of 2.5 % attendance. Significant, but not earth-shattering. Now here's what really would happen...some of that 10 % increase (Say half) would be people coming to Florida JUST because of Harry Potter...but they won't be spending there entire vacation at Universal...nope, they will spend 2-3 days there, and then will look around at what else there is, and hey, guess what...Disney World is right next door! That makes up for the losses in attendance, leaving WDW even, or maybe ahead in the equation. By attracting people to central Florida, Universal will probably boost Disney's bottom line as well as there own.

Do you not think Disney took this into account when bidding for the rights to Harry Potter? Universal is the one that drops the $150 million+ price tag, and Disney STILL gets a portion of the benefit. The mouse may be cheap - but he is not stupid!

SkierPete

[rebecca06261]

Hey folks - is it just me or has this thread gone way OT -> seems like folks are just bashing / defending WDW or US. :confused3

Whatever, let's get back to the original statement. First off, I think there is some deception / mis-representation about Harry-Potter land...Universal is NOT opening a new theme park for this...it is going to be one of the lands within Islands of Adventure. From what I understand...there are going to be 2 or 3 rides, and essentially a shopping district. I believe one of those rides is just a re-theming of Dueling Dragons coaster. Unless I am mis-interpreting what has been shown so far.

So, short_term, I think a good marketing campaign will take *some* business away from Disney...you will get some people that don't bother with Universal to try it for a day or two. You will get a few people that have been there before giving it another try. It will likely not add significant park days at Universal to most people's trips. (If they were originally not going...they might go 1 or 2 days...if they were already planning on going...it probably won't change the # of days or add 1 day.)

I think longer term, the effect will be minimal once people realize that Harry Potter land is a 2-3 hour section of your vacation. People that like Universal's style (more thrill - less family) will continue to spend some time there, while others won't.

SkierPete

Think of it this way (My hypothetical senario)

Disney announces the creation of Beastly Kingdome at AK. The new "land" will be the new home to several rides, attractions, and restaurants and will take several years to complete. It will be the most adventitious project ever taken on my Disney and promises to deliver all the excitement that 8-50 year-old males have been missing out on since the princesses, Hannah Montana, and HSM took over the parks a number of years ago.

Now tell me which park guests with teenage girls, and boys of any age will ultimately go to. The way I see it is that IoA is catering to a large market share of tourism dollars. The fact of the matter is that they are delivering the goods and services that guests want AND FOR LESS MONEY!!!

[redrosesix]

Hey folks - is it just me or has this thread gone way OT -> seems like folks are just bashing / defending WDW or US. :confused3

Whatever, let's get back to the original statement. First off, I think there is some deception / mis-representation about Harry-Potter land...Universal is NOT opening a new theme park for this...it is going to be one of the lands within Islands of Adventure. From what I understand...there are going to be 2 or 3 rides, and essentially a shopping district. I believe one of those rides is just a re-theming of Dueling Dragons coaster. Unless I am mis-interpreting what has been shown so far.

So, short_term, I think a good marketing campaign will take *some* business away from Disney...you will get some people that don't bother with Universal to try it for a day or two. You will get a few people that have been there before giving it another try. It will likely not add significant park days at Universal to most people's trips. (If they were originally not going...they might go 1 or 2 days...if they were already planning on going...it probably won't change the # of days or add 1 day.)

I think longer term, the effect will be minimal once people realize that Harry Potter land is a 2-3 hour section of your vacation. People that like Universal's style (more thrill - less family) will continue to spend some time there, while others won't.

Here's a little more stats...US/IoA has 11.6 miilion visitor-days of attendance a year. The 4 WDW theme parks have 46.9 million. Let's say Harry Potter "bumps" Universal by 10 %, a HUGE # that I'm sure execs there would be thrilled about. A increase of 1.2 million visitor-days!

Well..IF...and here's a big IF, EVERY single one of those visitor-days were taken from WDW attendence, Disney would see a total drop of 2.5 % attendance. Significant, but not earth-shattering. Now here's what really would happen...some of that 10 % increase (Say half) would be people coming to Florida JUST because of Harry Potter...but they won't be spending there entire vacation at Universal...nope, they will spend 2-3 days there, and then will look around at what else there is, and hey, guess what...Disney World is right next door! That makes up for the losses in attendance, leaving WDW even, or maybe ahead in the equation. By attracting people to central Florida, Universal will probably boost Disney's bottom line as well as there own.

Do you not think Disney took this into account when bidding for the rights to Harry Potter? Universal is the one that drops the $150 million+ price tag, and Disney STILL gets a portion of the benefit. The mouse may be cheap - but he is not stupid!

SkierPete

While I'm willing to concede that some of your extra tourists who come just for the HP exhibit will also want to go to WDW, for a family of 4 (with everybody 10 or over) that first day will cost them $300 at WDW. But US has this whole thing wrapped up with the Orlando FlexTicket -- unlimited use of all their theme parks for 14 days, for less than $300 per person. A lot of people will choose to do Seaworld and Busch Gardens rather than WDW because of the savings in that pass ie. when they look around to see what else there is.

The Wizarding World of HP is not supposed to have just 2-3 rides. Rather, they are retheming 2 rides that I know of (including Dueling Dragons), in addition to building the Hogwart's school, etc from the HP novels -- I think that is the draw for HP fans, not the rides. For my family, I can't see spending any less than a whole day in that area alone (based on what I've read about the new area) so we're probably going to buy the 14 day pass anyway.

So, now that I'm already spending most of my time not at WDW on our trip, I have to decide where I'm staying. Might as well stay at US to get that FOTL pass, since everybody will want to see HP.

Even if you're right and WDW only loses some of my park days, they are also going to lose at least 3 days of my resort stay. And by the time I'm finished buying wands and Gryffindor robes at US, I'm just really not going to be into buying another set of mouse ears.

Considering that we wouldn't even plan to stay at US without the HP attractions, yes, I think that WDW still loses out because of HP.

[Peter Pirate 2]

First, I haven't seen this thread veer to bashing from either side rather it's been a nice and enlightening discussion, IMO.:thumbsup2

I think Rebecca stated the most important fact, that USO is actually doing something right now, during this recession (opening the 'Rockit' coaster AND building HP). WDW is doing something too but none of it's good for us or especially the CM's.
pirate:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The fact that there hasn't been a lot of bashing on this thread is probably because most Disney fans have conceded that Universal is doing quite a few things right while Universal fans acknowledge that Universal can never be in scope what Disney is.

Anything that draws more people to the Orlando area and/or keeps them here longer is a good thing for our economy. The recent addition of Aquatica to the area was a good thing, the coming enhancements at Universal will be a good thing and anything Disney does to respond will be a good thing.

So all you tourists reading this.....COME ON DOWN!

BobK/Orlando

[Metro West]

The fact that there hasn't been a lot of bashing on this thread is probably because most Disney fans have conceded that Universal is doing quite a few things right while Universal fans acknowledge that Universal can never be in scope what Disney is.

Anything that draws more people to the Orlando area and/or keeps them here longer is a good thing for our economy. The recent addition of Aquatica to the area was a good thing, the coming enhancements at Universal will be a good thing and anything Disney does to respond will be a good thing.

So all you tourists reading this.....COME ON DOWN!

BobK/Orlando ::yes::

[ChrisFL]

double post

[ChrisFL]

My take on this...I think the troubled economy is going to have an impact, and if people are still going to travel to Orlando for vacation........

So the family takes a look at both the vacation deals and what's new at Universal and Disney, and starts to realize that not only does Universal have much better package deals, they also have a lot of new things to do.

Meanwhile Disney, has a new balloon, a new attraction based on a tv show that's quickly losing popularity and um...thats about it.

I think in a struggling economy, Universal has a bit of an advantage, Disney had plenty of time to react and built exciting new attractions, but it hasnt happened.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Just an observation: Currently US's only 3 hotels are priced out of the budgets of many families, including mine since we like to vacation for well over a week. Although they have their "partner hotels" this is just not the same thing as the official hotels eg. no US theming, no front of the line pass, etc. So, in a way they are still not tapping into the Value and Moderate guest customers.

Sure, they are offering some deep discounts now. But when the HP attraction officially opens, I can see them charging top dollar for all of their rooms, no matter what is happening in the economy.



Priced out of the budgets of most families? Huh?

I just did a quick search on a few travel websites.....not including ANY special discounts or programs offered for US resorts. (expedia prices quoted here just for reference).

Here are average costs June 7 - 14 (don't forget...no specials included)

Hard Rock $ 188 4 star rated (Only GF is rated as 4 star at WDW)
Portofino Bay $ 173 4 1/2 star <--WOW - GEORGOUS hotel
Royal Pacific $ 145 4 star

Hunt around for some specials, we know they are available,......look at the deal with US park passes.....hummmmm....beginning to sound pretty good to me. Especially if you are a former Disney Delux hotel guest!!!

[jimmymac]

Just an observation: Currently US's only 3 hotels are priced out of the budgets of many families, including mine since we like to vacation for well over a week. Although they have their "partner hotels" this is just not the same thing as the official hotels eg. no US theming, no front of the line pass, etc. So, in a way they are still not tapping into the Value and Moderate guest customers.Sure, they are offering some deep discounts now. But when the HP attraction officially opens, I can see them charging top dollar for all of their rooms, no matter what is happening in the economy.

US hotels are not priced out of reach. They're about the same as the moderates at WDW, and far less than the deluxes. The US hotels are better than all the WDW deluxes imho. And there is absoulutely no comparison in ticket prices. Seaworld, both Universal parks and Busch Gardens are included in that price too

[daannzzz]

I think Uni will get some business and Disney will feel it.

As far as hotels go. I can afford (and save for the it) to stay at nicer places some of the time but you all need to remember that large amounts of people can not. 15 years ago I paid around $45-55 for my motel rooms near Disneyland. When I wanted to stay at a new place and it was $69 I balked. There are loads of people that can not afford $70 a night for a room so $188 is way beyond for them. When people ask "What is a cheap place to stay" you have to ask them "What is cheap to you?"

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I think Uni will get some business and Disney will feel it.

As far as hotels go. I can afford (and save for the it) to stay at nicer places some of the time but you all need to remember that large amounts of people can not. 15 years ago I paid around $45-55 for my motel rooms near Disneyland. When I wanted to stay at a new place and it was $69 I balked. There are loads of people that can not afford $70 a night for a room so $188 is way beyond for them. When people ask "What is a cheap place to stay" you have to ask them "What is cheap to you?"


Oh boy you are so right. I remember those days as well.

I doubt you will find many here who will say Disney hotel rates are affordable! I am SHOCKED at the costs of Moderates and the jump to Delux is quite simply obscene for what you get. We could never consider a trip without castmember rates.

In my note, I was just comparing the cost of a US hotel room to a WDW hotel room. Yes, the US hotels are rated higher than the Disney hotels because the rooms are larger and the hotels offer more....but affordable to many. nope

[daannzzz]

I did get to stay at the Portofino Bay in 2003 for a great price and I thought is was a bit nicer than most of the Disney Deluxes. The boat service was great and the walk was easy as well.
MY first trip to WDW I was so clueless. I thought I might slpurge and stay at the Polynesian if it was around $80 per night!!!! I nearly choked when I fouind out they had "economy" motels that were $89!

[skier_pete]

Yup, I agree..cheap is all relative...while I have paid $145 a night to stay at POFQ, we only did it because we had free dining in our pocket. I generally try not to pay above $125 a night for hotel rooms. In fact, I've only once in my life paid >$200 for a hotel room, and that was on our honeymoon in Hawaii. While some may point out that Universal's hotels are "cheap" compared to Disney Deluxe. And I would adimitted die if I had to pay $300-$400 a night for a hotel room at a Disney resort, at least Disney does give you the option of an on-site stay at a reasonable price. This is not a bash of Universal, they are going after a different market with their hotels. I would maybe consider a few nights there at the rates the PP showed, but I would probably rather stay somewhere else for less.

(This actually reminds me of a conversation I recently had while skiing at Whistler BC...my good friend who has a place there is financially a lot better off than I, and we were discussing that ski resorts have completely priced out the middle class. He was arguing that a ski vacation was no different from a week at WDW. When I told him we had gone for 10 days last year to Disney for <$2500, including food, he was shocked...as when he goes, he stays at deluxe hotels and doesn't worry about "getting the best deal". My point was that while Disney can be expensive, it can also be cheap. Unlike skiing, which simply cannot be done cheaply at any major resort.)

SkierPete

P.S...our first two trips to WDW in '97 and '00 we stayed *just* off-site for $52 and $43 a night. I guess I'm willing to *splurge* a little more now.

[bubba's mom]

I think if some of the Disney fanatics were to open their minds a little and take off the blinders they will see there's room for both companies, in their vacation plans. When that happens we all win as consumers.

absolutely ::yes::

Just an observation: Currently US's only 3 hotels are priced out of the budgets of many families, including mine since we like to vacation for well over a week. Although they have their "partner hotels" this is just not the same thing as the official hotels eg. no US theming, no front of the line pass, etc. So, in a way they are still not tapping into the Value and Moderate guest customers.

Sure, they are offering some deep discounts now. But when the HP attraction officially opens, I can see them charging top dollar for all of their rooms, no matter what is happening in the economy.

You can bet at least ticket prices will go up when HP opens. The $99 for 7 days ticket will disappear (which is why a lot of peeps are buying them now)...but, if the hotels aren't filling, they will still offer discounts (AP, SS, AAA, etc...) Also, factor in the cheap price of the ticket, and the extra cost of the room is comparable/worth it (esp. w/ fotl)


Re: FOTL, the only reason it works is because it's fairly limited. If they add more hotels or start selling the add on's too cheap it will eventually defeat the purpose and become a moot selling point. So IMO they have to protect the sanctity of FOTL and not get too greedy with it.


There really isn't room for another hotel, and I doubt Loew's would build another w/ the fotl perk. I did hear they were/are supposed to build another 'onsite' hotel (where, idk :confused3 ), more of a 'value' hotel, but w/o the fotl perk. If you price out the cost of purchasing an Express Pass for each person in your party (peak times can be $50+/pp) vs. cost of 1 night onsite hotel, it's actually cheaper to stay one night onsite (AND, get unlimited fotl vs the 1 time per attraction EP).

First off, I think there is some deception / mis-representation about Harry-Potter land...Universal is NOT opening a new theme park for this...it is going to be one of the lands within Islands of Adventure. From what I understand...there are going to be 2 or 3 rides, and essentially a shopping district. I believe one of those rides is just a re-theming of Dueling Dragons coaster. Unless I am mis-interpreting what has been shown so far.

It will have what the other lands have: attractions, (yes DD is part of it and so is the Flying Unicorn coaster, along w/ the castle), restaurants and shopping. See screamscape.com & here: http://www.universalorlando.com/harrypotter/


Now here's what really would happen...some of that 10 % increase (Say half) would be people coming to Florida JUST because of Harry Potter...but they won't be spending there entire vacation at Universal...nope, they will spend 2-3 days there, and then will look around at what else there is, and hey, guess what...Disney World is right next door! That makes up for the losses in attendance, leaving WDW even, or maybe ahead in the equation. By attracting people to central Florida, Universal will probably boost Disney's bottom line as well as there own.

Do you not think Disney took this into account when bidding for the rights to Harry Potter? Universal is the one that drops the $150 million+ price tag, and Disney STILL gets a portion of the benefit. The mouse may be cheap - but he is not stupid!



I doubt anyone is going to UO strictly FOR HP. I think most go for Disney and venture to UO...and because of HP. Our family is different. We go to Florida to 1)visit family and 2)visit Universal Orlando. Disney does not even factor into our trip. I think the mouse is cheap and stupid...only because they aren't keeping up with the new/fresh/exciting. (which I think a lot of people here have expressed their disappointment with).


So, now that I'm already spending most of my time not at WDW on our trip, I have to decide where I'm staying. Might as well stay at US to get that FOTL pass, since everybody will want to see HP.

Even if you're right and WDW only loses some of my park days, they are also going to lose at least 3 days of my resort stay. And by the time I'm finished buying wands and Gryffindor robes at US, I'm just really not going to be into buying another set of mouse ears.

Considering that we wouldn't even plan to stay at US without the HP attractions, yes, I think that WDW still loses out because of HP.

::yes:: It's not only losing the ticket sale, but the souvys and eating too.

The fact that there hasn't been a lot of bashing on this thread is probably because most Disney fans have conceded that Universal is doing quite a few things right while Universal fans acknowledge that Universal can never be in scope what Disney is.

Anything that draws more people to the Orlando area and/or keeps them here longer is a good thing for our economy. The recent addition of Aquatica to the area was a good thing, the coming enhancements at Universal will be a good thing and anything Disney does to respond will be a good thing.

So all you tourists reading this.....COME ON DOWN!



http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy107.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) well said!

[Peter Pirate 2]

There is plenty of room for a new onsite hotel (or two) in the large vacant land on the other side of Adventure Way, down from Royal Pacific ... It's an are that has been discussed as future park potential as well.

I seriously doubt a new hotel or anything is in the works for that land but it's there when they need it.
pirate:

[fireman1]

We just got back fron Orlando. We did 5 days at Disney and 1 at IOA.
That Harry Potter attraction is going to be HUGE. Its housed in a building that looks to be just as big as JP. Will it hurt Disney? You betcha, unless Disney decides to counter with a new attraction of their own and SOON.

The new coaster at the studio part looks like its gonna be huge in it's own right as well.
C'mon Disney, get crackin'.

[bubba's mom]

Harry Potter LAND is going something like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/barbpics/db_LostContinent_aerial_Potter1_800.jpg

It may not look like a lot, but that area is pretty big...especially Hogwarts further down where you can't see (JP area in that direction).

[fireman1]

It's really going to be something, no doubt about that.

[Metro West]

We just got back fron Orlando. We did 5 days at Disney and 1 at IOA.
That Harry Potter attraction is going to be HUGE. Its housed in a building that looks to be just as big as JP. Will it hurt Disney? You betcha, unless Disney decides to counter with a new attraction of their own and SOON.

The new coaster at the studio part looks like its gonna be huge in it's own right as well.
C'mon Disney, get crackin'.I kinda dread the opening of HP because the days of light crowds will be gone! But...I can't wait to see it. :banana:

Manta and the HR3 opening this year are both going to be huge attendance boosters for Sea World and Universal. AI at DHS? Not so much. ;)

[fireman1]

I kinda dread the opening of HP because the days of light crowds will be gone! But...I can't wait to see it. :banana:

Manta and the HR3 opening this year are both going to be huge attendance boosters for Sea World and Universal. AI at DHS? Not so much. ;)

I agree about the lite crowds at IOA. We had little to no wait on everything. We rode Hulk and DD at least 4 times apiece, and Spider-man twice.
Thata be looong gone once HP opens.

[Peter Pirate 2]

I agree about the lite crowds at IOA. We had little to no wait on everything. We rode Hulk and DD at least 4 times apiece, and Spider-man twice.
Thata be looong gone once HP opens.

Only if it's as good as we're hoping (expecting). If it's lame USO is in for a world of hurt.
pirate:

[fireman1]

I hope it lives up to expectations. Folks are expecting Hogwarts come to life. anything less than that is gonna be disappointing.

[Mouseaholic!!!]

Oh boy, the Disney grownups aren't going to like this one.....

Stock price down at $15.61 as of a few minutes ago.:scared1: And I thought HP was going to be bad news for Disney!! That hasn't even opened yet.


The good news....they are not 6 Flags.....their stock valued below Citicorp....at 21 cents p/share.:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

[rebecca06261]

Oh boy, the Disney grownups aren't going to like this one.....

Stock price down at $15.61 as of a few minutes ago.:scared1: And I thought HP was going to be bad news for Disney!! That hasn't even opened yet.


The good news....they are not 6 Flags.....their stock valued below Citicorp....at 21 cents p/share.:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

I bought shares of 6flags last year at .12 a share, that means I've almost doubled my money :cool1:

[bubba's mom]

Uh...isn't Six Flags one of the companies not expected to survive this year? :confused3 Thought I read that....some others included were: Blockbuster, Sirius, Krispy Kreme....... (sorry, don't mean to hijack...just wondering....)

[rebecca06261]

Uh...isn't Six Flags one of the companies not expected to survive this year? :confused3 Thought I read that....some others included were: Blockbuster, Sirius, Krispy Kreme....... (sorry, don't mean to hijack...just wondering....)

You're right- although they are expected to file bankruptcy and reorganize prior to the dissolution of the company. I expect stock prices will increase a slight bit more once they sell off a couple of parks- I'll sell out soon, hopefully I'll time it right :) .

[bubba's mom]

I wish you luck!

[redrosesix]

US hotels are not priced out of reach. They're about the same as the moderates at WDW, and far less than the deluxes. The US hotels are better than all the WDW deluxes imho. And there is absoulutely no comparison in ticket prices. Seaworld, both Universal parks and Busch Gardens are included in that price too

Well, they may not be price out of reach for some, but we are traveling from Canada, and the cheapest possible airfare would be $400 return pp. Plus, it can take all day to travel there if you have to connect at Toronto, so most people we know stay at least 10 days. That extra cost for the hotel room adds up pretty quick.

So, you can probably see now why I can't justify spending 2 weeks at US but can easily do it at WDW staying at a Value resort, every year.

[redrosesix]

Harry Potter LAND is going something like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/barbpics/db_LostContinent_aerial_Potter1_800.jpg

It may not look like a lot, but that area is pretty big...especially Hogwarts further down where you can't see (JP area in that direction).

Yup, that looks like 20 acres to me. I have a feeling we'll be there all day for 3 days in a row (DD is still too young to get her letter from Hogwart's so she'll want to memorize the place -- she is such a Hermione)

[rebecca06261]

Well, they may not be price out of reach for some, but we are traveling from Canada, and the cheapest possible airfare would be $400 return pp. Plus, it can take all day to travel there if you have to connect at Toronto, so most people we know stay at least 10 days. That extra cost for the hotel room adds up pretty quick.

So, you can probably see now why I can't justify spending 2 weeks at US but can easily do it at WDW staying at a Value resort, every year.

Is this part of the new fuzzy disney math concept??? :confused3

7 day park hopper tickets + 7 days at value resort, non-preferred room) for a family of 4 = $2182.00 (standard rates)

7 day 2 park unlimited pass + 7 days at Portofino Bay (ahem which btw is 2 queen beds... not 2 full size beds :snooty: ) = $1606.45 (standard rates) FYI, when you stay at USF resort, it includes express passes.


Granted- a week at USF would be a bit much...even for me, and there *are* 4 parks at WDW vs. the 2 at USF. However, you certainly can't say that it's cheaper for you to go to Disney for a week over USF.

Forgot to add that this is based on 2 adults and 2 kids during value season.

[redrosesix]

Is this part of the new fuzzy disney math concept??? :confused3

7 day park hopper tickets + 7 days at value resort, non-preferred room) for a family of 4 = $2182.00 (standard rates)

7 day 2 park unlimited pass + 7 days at Portofino Bay (ahem which btw is 2 queen beds... not 2 full size beds :snooty: ) = $1606.45 (standard rates) FYI, when you stay at USF resort, it includes express passes.


Granted- a week at USF would be a bit much...even for me, and there *are* 4 parks at WDW vs. the 2 at USF. However, you certainly can't say that it's cheaper for you to go to Disney for a week over USF.

Forgot to add that this is based on 2 adults and 2 kids during value season.

Wow! How do you get rates like that for US hotels? We've been comparing rates so we can make plans for next year's trip and haven't seen anything under $200 for that hotel. Usually closer to $300 per night.

This would be great if we cut our trip down to 1 week instead of 2 -- nah! But we'll look at it again, for sure.

[rebecca06261]

Wow! How do you get rates like that for US hotels? We've been comparing rates so we can make plans for next year's trip and haven't seen anything under $200 for that hotel. Usually closer to $300 per night.

This would be great if we cut our trip down to 1 week instead of 2 -- nah! But we'll look at it again, for sure.

I got both of the figures from Disney's and USF's web sites using their booking system. I later edited that to include that I used value season as I didnt know the dates you were looking at going. Have a great holiday :goodvibes

[redrosesix]

I got both of the figures from Disney's and USF's web sites using their booking system. I later edited that to include that I used value season as I didnt know the dates you were looking at going. Have a great holiday :goodvibes

We always have to go around President's Week (DD attends a competition at WDW), but we are only there for part of that week -- so half of our trip is value season at WDW, half is peak.

The WDWinfo pages state that the rack rate for Portofino Bay starts at $269 per month (and those were apparently 2007 prices -- could they have actually dropped them $100 in 2 years?) and I have also seen it posted at $249 per night. We also tried using US's booking system to get a general idea of the rates for next year, but we kept getting prices based on the current deals they are offering.

If US has HP open in time for our next trip (Feb. 16 to March 3) it will have just opened -- we will need the FOTL pass so staying at US for even a few nights at $269 per night would be worth it.

Also, we thought that the $99 7-day US park ticket was a special promotion -- the best regular price is a 2 day/2 park for $110. Still cheaper than WDW, but not when you get to the 7th day.

[bubba's mom]

If you keep your eyes open, you can usually find some other rate than rack at PBH. (I usually book, then switch to AAA rate and have switched to SS rate.) Staying 3+ nights you can probably get the SuperSaver rate if it's available. But, there are a limited number of rooms at that rate, so you have to watch and/or watch the Universal side of the DIS for when they 'open' SS rates...it's not a rate that's always available...but, when it is, the DIS knows it. We have a Date/Rate thread for 2009, 2008 and 2007 so you are able to see what rates people have gotten on which dates and using what (AP, AAA, SS, etc...).

The only thing cheaper than SS or AAA rates is usually AP rate...which usually comes out a few months prior to when you'd be there. AP rates usually hover just under $200/nite depending when you're going.

Just like anything Disney...it's just research and keeping your eye on things. ;)

[rebecca06261]

We always have to go around President's Week (DD attends a competition at WDW), but we are only there for part of that week -- so half of our trip is value season at WDW, half is peak.

The WDWinfo pages state that the rack rate for Portofino Bay starts at $269 per month (and those were apparently 2007 prices -- could they have actually dropped them $100 in 2 years?) and I have also seen it posted at $249 per night. We also tried using US's booking system to get a general idea of the rates for next year, but we kept getting prices based on the current deals they are offering.

If US has HP open in time for our next trip (Feb. 16 to March 3) it will have just opened -- we will need the FOTL pass so staying at US for even a few nights at $269 per night would be worth it.

Also, we thought that the $99 7-day US park ticket was a special promotion -- the best regular price is a 2 day/2 park for $110. Still cheaper than WDW, but not when you get to the 7th day.

I went back to USF site to see how I came up with the rates. Unlike Disney's site, it automatically gives you any open promotion, including tickets- With Disney's online booking site, it only gives you rack rate as an option.

Sooo.. .It looks like it was MY Universal fuzzy math this time around :headache:

[redrosesix]

I went back to USF site to see how I came up with the rates. Unlike Disney's site, it automatically gives you any open promotion, including tickets- With Disney's online booking site, it only gives you rack rate as an option.

Sooo.. .It looks like it was MY Universal fuzzy math this time around :headache:

I was worried that it sounded to good to be true -- but now you've also made me realize how much I have to spend at WDW without a deal on the room. :scared1: It makes big difference when you see it all added together like that (instead of in pieces, which is how we usually pay for our trip)

Hard to say what the rates will be like next year, for either US or WDW -- US will be opening HP, but both of them are going to be hurting because of the economy. The thread about MSNBC says that 2010 will be even worse than this year.

[MAYNARDS99]

Doesn't everyone go to both USO and Disneyworld each time they visit Orlando?

HP WILL take guests over to IOA who don't usually go.

[Uncleromulus]

The short answer to that question--in my case and I'm sure for many others--is no.

[Peter Pirate 2]

The short answer to that question--in my case and I'm sure for many others--is no.

But I think the lines are blurring there Uncle and HP will definitely help that along, IMO.

I go to Universal more now because of the dining. I have The Palm at The Hard Rock (which I love) plus The Kitchen, Emeril's, Tchop tchop, Margaritaville, etc ... Plus the Lone Palm Bar at Buffett's, which has great apps and the BEST rumrunners North of the Key's.:thumbsup2

A lot of people don't like the parking garage but IMO it makes for real easy in and out - Much better than Disney and way better than PI.

HP won't be for everyone but it will be way more far reaching than say Iger's new 'blockbuster' American Idol.
pirate:

[bubba's mom]

Doesn't everyone go to both USO and Disneyworld each time they visit Orlando?



The short answer to that question--in my case and I'm sure for many others--is no.

I agree...no.

We don't visit Disney....just Universal Orlando.

[Uncleromulus]

See that--everyone is different!! For us it's Disney and not Universal. But the answer is still no.

But I agree the lines are blurring and lord knows Potter will be a much better attraction than that Idol thing...

[Peter Pirate 2]

See that--everyone is different!! For us it's Disney and not Universal. But the answer is still no.

But I agree the lines are blurring and lord knows Potter will be a much better attraction than that Idol thing...

Uncle, the next time you are south we have to get together and I will buy you whatever beer you're finding special (or multiple quantities if you'd prefer) at that time!:thumbsup2
pirate:

[Metro West]

But I agree the lines are blurring and lord knows Potter will be a much better attraction than that Idol thing... :thumbsup2

[Uncleromulus]

Pirate: As late September nears, I think I'll take you up on that offer!!