Help for a Needie newbie

[geishagirl81]

Ok so I am sure you get tons of new ppl pleaing for advice. I am sorry to be among the masses :) It is just that I FINALLY got my dh to agree to a vacation in Florida, and I want to do a little bit of Disney. But I am only into one hour of internet research and I am hyperventalating.



So my scenario: we'd be on a budget. A strict budget $1K to 1.5K including travel. We will be drivining from OH. We are planning on going in mid August due to the lower rates on a partial hook-up site and I'd get into a park for free on my birthday. We'd have a 2.5 year-old and a nine month old. It would be our first trip to Disney and will be going to the Kingdom one day and then taking advantage of the campground and other nonadmission activities at the resort on another day. Maybe SeaWorld? It will be our first big camping trip. Dh and I have camped with borrowed gear for a night or two, but we recently went all out and spent $$ on our own new gear. (Target had a 75% off blowout on camping stuff).

So do any of you seasoned Fort Wilderness pros have any tips and advice? I am also looking through MouseSavers. What is there to do at the resort that is free? Any tips on camping there in general? AM I COMPLETELY CRAZY, LOL? ? Really anything useful will be a help to me. I am freaking out.

[Shan-man]

Rather than write you a novel, let me refer you to the FAQ (click me) (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1818140). Read that and then come back with any remaining questions.

[BigDaddyRog]

And a BIG OL'WELCOME

Shan's right...TONS of useful info on the FAQ page...well organized by the thread Moderator Scott. and ..NO...a resounding..NO...you're NOT crazy at all....the Fort has TONS of free activities that will make an inexpensive vacation seem like its a million dollar blow out!!

[LONE-STAR]

If you are tenting it in August you will need a small A/C unit in that tent. You are not crazy. There are lots of great things to do at FW. Every night there is a campfire and movie outside, swimming, you can watch fire works from the beach, and there is a light parade on the water every night that you can watch at the marina. Don't forget to bring bikes FW is a great place to ride.

[BigDaddyRog]

True LoneStar...but if an A/C unit puts you past what you can fit into your budget...a well placed fan would suffice just fine. Plus, plenty of visits to the, by then, newly renovated pool with new slide will help keep you cool.

[geishagirl81]

Thanx I will go through the FAQs page. I didn't see it before. We will be tenting. It's pretty big. 2 rooms and tall enough to stand in. (we're really tall). But no a/c just a box fan and a couple of those Coleman tent fans.

I am sure that I will come back with lots of more questions. TIA.

[BigDaddyRog]

Bring it on, girl...thats what we're here for!

[geishagirl81]

Do the parks let you bring in sealed drinks etc?

are there any promos for the campground ever? we'll be going off-peak.

should we do 2 disney parks or go to seaworld? if 2 disney parks then is it cheaper to buy both days at once? i will have 1 day free. (my b-day)

a strictly camping question. we have one of those 7 day coolers. should i freeze the hotdogs and burger patties though? i have never camped in roasting temperatures before and I do not know how the cooler will preform.

TIA. I know I will have more Q's if anyone is up to answering them. :)

[geishagirl81]

oh another q- has anyone bought the orlando entertainment book, and if so is it worth it?

[BigDaddyRog]

I wouldnt waste time on Seaworld or any other theme park..your disney ticket prices get cheaper the more days you buy, and the other theme parks are always a little disappointing after a Disney park. I would highley Suggest 2 days in Disney Parks..at least one Magic Kingdom day, and one at Hollywood Studios...Hollywood Studios has alot of kid friendly shows that are held INSIDE (with air conditioning) as well as a few outside shows.

A 7 day cooler will keep your thawed burgers and hotdogs safe for at least 4 days, I would think. If frozen...youve got no worries other than making sure they are thawed in time for cooking.

The Orlando Entertainment Book is great if you've got money to spend outside of Disney...really good for some discounts at restaraunts near disney.

[FlaFortCampster]

Do the parks let you bring in sealed drinks etc?

are there any promos for the campground ever? we'll be going off-peak.

should we do 2 disney parks or go to seaworld? if 2 disney parks then is it cheaper to buy both days at once? i will have 1 day free. (my b-day)

a strictly camping question. we have one of those 7 day coolers. should i freeze the hotdogs and burger patties though? i have never camped in roasting temperatures before and I do not know how the cooler will preform.

TIA. I know I will have more Q's if anyone is up to answering them. :)

Yes, you can take drinks and food into the parks. Great way to save major $$$$.

Promos for tent camping are non exsistent. The best I've done is get reservations thru AAA. They often times beat Disney's rates. After the first week of Aug. you will be in Value Season, which means the kids are back in school. :lmao:

It probably will be less money to go to Sea World.

I would freeze those items as you can thaw them out in about 30 seconds in Florida during August.:rotfl2: There is ice available at every Comfort Station aka restrooms, so you can keep things iced down.

Keeping em coming.....

[geishagirl81]

yeah i read mousesavers review on sea world. according to them, since the free beer pavilion is closed, it is no longer worth it. i am science teacher though, so the park seemed interesting. plus i was there as a kid in florida and the sea world that was here near home in ohio. oh well, we plan on going to cape kennedy, i should get me nerd fix there, lol! as a kid i loved that place better than the magic kingdom!

omg i am sooo happy that we can bring food and drinks in the park! my dh drinks coke-cola like it's going out of style, he'd cost me $50 a day to buy it from the park!

[geishagirl81]

not the right discussion board i am sure, but since you all ae so nice so far, another question. admission- my son will be 2 years and 6 months. will he get in free? do i need a birth certificate. (he is TALL, me and dh are over 6 feet ourselved) TIA :)

[BradyBz12]

Yup - under 3 is still free! :)
Unlikely they'll give you any trouble on his age, but if you wanted to be on super safe side, you can bring along a certified copy of his birth certificate.

[geishagirl81]

thanks i love free!

I read the fact guide, but here's another- Hoop De Doo or Backyard BBQ? Which is better. I am leaning towards Hoop included beer, lol.

[2goofycampers]

HDDR is better by far.

[geishagirl81]

thanx

[BigDaddyRog]

lol...this is a Q that can only get you opinions as answers......Ive done the BackyardBBQ with 4 daughters...wasnt HORRIBLE...but I will never feel the need to do it again. I havent done the Hoop yet...but like you said...FREE BEER & WINE is a definate plus...and from all of the opinions Ive heard here...the show is much more entertaining thaan what I witnessed at the BYBBQ....I couldnt wait to get outta that mess!!!

[BigDaddyRog]

G'mornin' Denise!!!

[Grumpy92]

Definitely, the Hoop de doo. Best show and longest running in the world.
AAA really has the best discounts unless you are willing to buy an Ap. Since you are on a budget I wouldnt suggest that. The Trails End is a very good value. For meals consider sit down lunches as that saves you money. The menu is pretty much the same but the prices cheaper. Try to stay away from purchasing the items at the Trading post because the groceries do have disney prices.
As for parks Mk and AK might be the best for you. Sea World is nice but I think you will be stretching it with too much to do. When you get to FW you are going to find that there is so much to do there. The stables, the petting farm, the nightly campfire movie with chip and dale. We love to go sit on the porch at PH and people watch or just ride the boat launch to CR/WL or MK. I know you are going to love this resort and have a magical time.

You also might want to go to the Disboards Dis Unplugged podcast. You can listen to it on the computer too. The group just did a visit to FW and did a great review. It will really help you. it will be the Feb 4th podcast.

[BradyBz12]

For meals consider sit down lunches as that saves you money.

This is especially true at the DTD restaurants!

Try to stay away from purchasing the items at the Trading post because the groceries do have disney prices.

I'd add to also steer clear of Goodings - especially the one at Crossroads. Far better to drive a bit further away to a Publix or Walmart for "normal" prices. Goodings is outrageous and the selection isn't very good either.

If you have a car, there's a WalMart supercenter about 10 mins outside of DTD on Palm Parkway, and if you follow that a little further up, there's a great Whole Foods market too.

Have a wonderful trip! :goodvibes

[chartle]

Adding a few things to what others have said.

Do the parks let you bring in sealed drinks etc?

Yes we took two backpacks and in each backpack we had a small lunchbox type cooler that each held about 5 or 6 bottles of water.

are there any promos for the campground ever? we'll be going off-peak.

Others have asked and there has never been any promos for campsites. No 4/3 deal or free fall dining plan. Some people get good rates with AAA and other discounts.

should we do 2 disney parks or go to seaworld? if 2 disney parks then is it cheaper to buy both days at once? i will have 1 day free. (my b-day)

It sounds like you are only going to have two days for parks. :confused3 Adding a second day is about the price of a one day ticket, after 4 days adding a day is only like $3-5. Its up to you on what you and your family are interested in. There is a Seaworld forun here.

a strictly camping question. we have one of those 7 day coolers. should i freeze the hot dogs and burger patties though? i have never camped in roasting temperatures before and I do not know how the cooler will preform.

The following is my tips for camping.


Freeze as much as you can, consider it extra ice.
We never take raw meat with us. The burgers start to bleed and there's a risk of contaminating everything in your cooler.
If you have to have burgers get a seal-a-meal. it seals up the food great with less chance of leakage. Bring meat mostly frozen and use it the first meal.
We take everything we can precooked. We get precooked bacon, sausage and waffles even pancakes for breakfast. Besides it not being raw its great for cleanup. Getting rid of bacon grease is the worst. And cleaning up after pancakes without real running hot water is a pain.
Tacos is one of the meals we always take because the meat can be precooked and the bread is tortillas that can't be squished.
Particularly for breakfast we portion out each days bacon and sausage and seal-a-meal it. This keeps from having to reseal anything.


Also its most likely going to rain every day. Be prepared.One last thing, have you tried out all your new stuff. Its better to get the bugs out in the backyard or a local campground before you are 2000 miles away and looking for a hotel.

[geishagirl81]

great tips. thanks. we have a lot of meat from Omaha Steaks (we got a ginormous shipment as a gift) so it will be vaccumed sealed, but we also have a Food Saver, so I can seal whatever whenever. Yeah, I plan on having a one night camp out in the backyard before we go. I want to make sure we can get the tent up (It is large, sleeps 10), the air matresses have no holes, and that I can figure out the new propane stove and perculator. (No coffee will kill me, even if it is 100 degrees out).
I plan on getting as many goceries as feasable here at home. We have cheaper prices if I remember from my last Florida trip. I thought about the BisQuick pancake mix in the jar. Just oss it when you're doen. No clean up!

To the person who mentioned an air conditioner- do they make special ones or do ppl just throw a small window unit in the tent??? The idea never occurred to me before.

Is Downtown Disney fun? We will be there for 6 days. 2 in the parks, 1 at Kennedy Space Port, so 3 to wonder around aimlessly. Looking for non admission things to do. I like to camp, but this will be my longest trip ever and I am busy body. I can't stick around relaxing for too long, lol!

[sapdaddy]

One of the things my youngest DS7 thought was great was just riding the free Disney transportation. Between the boat, monorail, and buses we had a blast for one afternoon.

[geishagirl81]

thanks. i remember the monorails as a kid and will be taking my son on them. the boat ride to MK sounds fun too.

About the campground sites. Can you request a location? And are the partial hook-ups really far from bathrooms and the transportation system? If so, would it be worth it to pay for a full hook-up site even though we wouldn't need it. I am just concerned about access to showers and potties with a toddler in tow.


Thanks everyone for answering my questions. You have all been very kind.

[chartle]

great tips. thanks. we have a lot of meat from Omaha Steaks (we got a ginormous shipment as a gift) so it will be vaccumed sealed, but we also have a Food Saver, so I can seal whatever whenever. Yeah, I plan on having a one night camp out in the backyard before we go. I want to make sure we can get the tent up (It is large, sleeps 10), the air matresses have no holes, and that I can figure out the new propane stove and perculator. (No coffee will kill me, even if it is 100 degrees out).
I plan on getting as many goceries as feasable here at home. We have cheaper prices if I remember from my last Florida trip. I thought about the BisQuick pancake mix in the jar. Just oss it when you're doen. No clean up!!

That's the only way to go. Its just you buy a lot of air with those bottles. Since I'm the only one who drinks coffee we don't take a perc I use one of these.

https://shop.melitta.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=64+007&Cat=

https://shop.melitta.com/images/p743.jpg[/URL]

To the person who mentioned an air conditioner- do they make special ones or do ppl just throw a small window unit in the tent??? The idea never occurred to me before.!

Use a portable one or this...

[URL]http://outdooradvantageconnection.com/index.html (https://shop.melitta.com/images/p743.jpg)

http://outdooradvantageconnection.com/cart/cartimages/cottage_tent_new.jpg

Is Downtown Disney fun? We will be there for 6 days. 2 in the parks, 1 at Kennedy Space Port, so 3 to wonder around aimlessly. Looking for non admission things to do. I like to camp, but this will be my longest trip ever and I am busy body. I can't stick around relaxing for too long, lol!

For you, DTD is only good if you like to shop and not buy anything. Its all stores and restaurants. Though some of the stores are great just to visit like the Lego Store.

Something else free to do is take the transportation to some or all of the resorts. It will show you how to get around for future visits and where else you may want to stay.

You could kind of make it a game by figuring out the most unique way to get somewhere with out taking a bus.

[2goofycampers]

Another $ saver is to take the single packets of flavored powder ask for a free cup of water and mix your own drink. :thumbsup2

[geishagirl81]

Wow that boot thing is cool. My hubby works for Coca-Cola as a cooler/restaurant tech. I wonder if he'd be able to rig something up for our tent himself. We have a small window unit for my son's room since our central air doesn't cool his room well. hmm.... Although the tent we bought is one of those cabin types with good venting. Would that make it hard to cool?:confused3

The air conditioner idea is apealing to me. Being from the North, I will take cold over sickly hot anytime. Give me snow!

[geishagirl81]

Another $ saver is to take the single packets of flavored powder ask for a free cup of water and mix your own drink. :thumbsup2

I was thinking of the Pedialyte powder packets they make now. When we were in Boston last summer it was 101 degrees. Miserable. We hit CVS every couple of hours to get us all some Pedialyte!

[kaguilbeau]

If you are truly on a budget - I'd skip HDDR or the Backyard BBQ and invest in another day at the park.

August will not only be hot, but humid - you might not get many hours out of your day due to being so drained by the heat & humidity.

Have a real nice time whatever you decide to do!

[geishagirl81]

Yupp, talked to dh last nite. we are skipping the meal shows. if we keep adding days to the parks, we may as well go for the buy 4 get 3 free promo!:rotfl2: But I'd get the $79 Birthday Fun Card instead of a free day. What is that good for?

[2goofycampers]

G'mornin' Denise!!!

Good Afternoon Rog !!!

[chartle]

Wow that boot thing is cool. My hubby works for Coca-Cola as a cooler/restaurant tech. I wonder if he'd be able to rig something up for our tent himself. We have a small window unit for my son's room since our central air doesn't cool his room well. hmm.... Although the tent we bought is one of those cabin types with good venting. Would that make it hard to cool?:confused3

The air conditioner idea is apealing to me. Being from the North, I will take cold over sickly hot anytime. Give me snow!

You need to be more of a seamstress. If you look at their directions its a fabric boot that you attach to the side of your tent. After you cut a hole in it.

Your husband would probably what to create some sort of split system so the hole in your tent would be smaller.

Something like this would work.

http://www.ductlessdepot.net/product_details-type-2-2-257.html

http://www.ductlessdepot.net/data/products/thumbs2/2-zone.JPG

[geishagirl81]

thanks chartle. i will have my dh take a look at all the info you've shared. we does heating/cooling on the side, so i am hoping that he can come up with a system.

[chartle]

Yupp, talked to dh last nite. we are skipping the meal shows. if we keep adding days to the parks, we may as well go for the buy 4 get 3 free promo!:rotfl2: But I'd get the $79 Birthday Fun Card instead of a free day. What is that good for?

Mostly any merchandise from a Disney store on property. Some stores in Epcot and most at DTD do not take this card.

Here is the info from the Ticket Sticky

Birthday Fun Card

A birthday Fun Card is an option worth the value of a one-day, one-park pass, not including tax. It is valid that day only and for merchandise only. It is only valid in stores owned and operated by Disney; it cannot be used in any operating participant locations.

It can be used for PhotoPass on-site services and for tours that accept payment on the date of the tour (such as Behind the Seeds).

It cannot be applied to a hotel bill, to any food or beverages, cigarettes, or personal services. Most of the stores in Downtown Disney and on The Boardwalk are operating participant locations and cannot be used. Also it is specifically not valid in the Epcot stores at the China, Japan and Morocco pavilions.

It will not be replaced if lost, stolen or damaged. It cannot be used for the purchase of Disney Dollars or Gift Certificates.

Any unused value on the card will expire at Midnight of the day of issue.

Note: There has been some disagreement on whether the card is only good on your Birthday.

Oh sorry you can't do the 4/3 for a campsite.. :sad2:

[chartle]

thanks chartle. i will have my dh take a look at all the info you've shared. we does heating/cooling on the side, so i am hoping that he can come up with a system.

I kind of put that in as a joke. Its costs like $6,000. ;)

[geishagirl81]

well then you must have figured that my eyes glazed over with boredom at the sight of a/c parts, lol! same thing as when my dh insists on pulling me into autozone :) thanks for your help though.

[geishagirl81]

Oh sorry you can't do the 4/3 for a campsite..



I saw the tickets for sale on undercover tourist. 7 day passes were like $228. :confused3 :confused3

[Grumpy92]

There are two partial hook up loops 1500 & 2000. They offer electric & water hook ups only. The walk to the confort stations is very short in both of these loops.
Have you thought about ordering the free travel planning dvd? It gives a nice overview.
I am going to second the heat of August. I am a native so it really doesnt bother me but I have heard from other guest and they have the hardest time with the temps in July & August. This tends to be our hotest and most humid months. So definitely try to work something out with fans or ac. The water/fan mister is great when filled with ice water.
DTD is shops and restaurants, wonderful place to walk around. Go for the free dessert at Giradellis chocolate shop. They hand out pieces of chocolate in the evening.
A couple other things in the evening, check out Bob in the lounge at POR. He is great and it is family entertainment. POR has a great foodcourt if you want to eat out on a budget price. AKL also has a campfire storytelling session in the evening you might enjoy it, again its a freebie.

[Shan-man]

Another $ saver is to take the single packets of flavored powder ask for a free cup of water and mix your own drink. :thumbsup2

Or, take your flask to ClubCool and make your own free mixed drinks! :thumbsup2

[FlaFortCampster]

Yupp, talked to dh last nite. we are skipping the meal shows. if we keep adding days to the parks, we may as well go for the buy 4 get 3 free promo!:rotfl2: But I'd get the $79 Birthday Fun Card instead of a free day. What is that good for?

Since you will already have your ticket to get into a park for your birthday, why don't you rent a golf cart with your BFC. :drive: It would be free for 1 day (and you would have about $18 left over) and a GREAT birthday present to yourself. It is a blast to "loop" the campgrounds.
Here's some info from an earlier thread....FREE GOLF CART RENTAL.

I just read on Allears that you will be able to use your birthday certifcate for golf cart rental at Fort Wilderness.

Q. What can I use the BFC for?
A. According to the official brochure, the BFC can be used for things like: Merchandise at Disney-owned locations, stroller, wheelchair and ECV rentals, certain recreational activities, the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, prepackaged food items like chips or candy at merchandise sales locations, Photopass services, golf cart rentals at Fort Wilderness, etc. When in doubt, ask first before trying to use your card for payment!

I see you found Mousesavers, try Allears.com. You will find a wealth of info and more info on BFC.

[geishagirl81]

Yipee. I just booked! 7 nights in August for $338! I also got DH to agree to 6 day tickets, we're springing for them! SOOO much to do now. I have to plan the whole trip as well as prepare for camping it. You all have been so friendly, esp. within this discussion board. Campers must be generally friendly ppl, lol! Thanks and be prepared for me to come at you with more inquiries.

For example, my DH is worried about leaving things at the campsite when we are in the parks. He wants to put the air conditioner, chairs, and everything that isn't staked to the ground in the van while we are gone. Isn't that overkill??? Should we be worried?

[Cindy F]

Yipee. I just booked! 7 nights in August for $338! I also got DH to agree to 6 day tickets, we're springing for them! SOOO much to do now. I have to plan the whole trip as well as prepare for camping it. You all have been so friendly, esp. within this discussion board. Campers must be generally friendly ppl, lol! Thanks and be prepared for me to come at you with more inquiries.

For example, my DH is worried about leaving things at the campsite when we are in the parks. He wants to put the air conditioner, chairs, and everything that isn't staked to the ground in the van while we are gone. Isn't that overkill??? Should we be worried?

I would probably take the A/C with me and any type of laptop/electronic stuff but everything else I would just stick in the tent. That's pretty much what we do with our pop up and haven't had a problem with things being stolen. Except our pizza but those were raccoons. :laughing:

Cute fantasy raccoon:
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Animals/3d-apple-eating-raccoon.gif

Pizza stealing campground raccoon:
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/raccoon.jpg

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-raccoons-are-here-to-help-you.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/Scrubm0nkey/funny-pictures-raccoon-came-to-burg.jpg

Lock up all your food and lock it up TIGHT!

[disney4dan]

great tips. thanks. we have a lot of meat from Omaha Steaks (we got a ginormous shipment as a gift) so it will be vaccumed sealed, but we also have a Food Saver, so I can seal whatever whenever. Yeah, I plan on having a one night camp out in the backyard before we go. I want to make sure we can get the tent up (It is large, sleeps 10), the air matresses have no holes, and that I can figure out the new propane stove and perculator. (No coffee will kill me, even if it is 100 degrees out).

I agree on the coffee, one of the best things about camping is having your own favorite brew in the morning, puts a smile on my face!

I plan on getting as many goceries as feasable here at home. We have cheaper prices if I remember from my last Florida trip. I thought about the BisQuick pancake mix in the jar. Just oss it when you're doen. No clean up!

To the person who mentioned an air conditioner- do they make special ones or do ppl just throw a small window unit in the tent??? The idea never occurred to me before.

That's what we did last August, and used one of those plastic carry cases like they have for curbside recycling as our stand to keep the AC off the ground. The plastic bin served double duty as a storage bin for some items while driving (extension cords, propane bottles, etc.) Our oldest son (16 yo) and his friend stayed in the tent (when they weren't out prowling around). We just used a small room AC we had at the house. You only need to keep the front portion of those out of the rain.

Is Downtown Disney fun? We will be there for 6 days. 2 in the parks, 1 at Kennedy Space Port, so 3 to wonder around aimlessly. Looking for non admission things to do. I like to camp, but this will be my longest trip ever and I am busy body. I can't stick around relaxing for too long, lol!
Downtown Disney can be fun, but is geared toward taking your money. Think of it as a shopping district on steroids. Mostly restaurants and shops. Fun to look at, and no admission price to walk through, but tempting. I never knew how much I wanted $10 per pound penny candy until I walked into DTD.

Other freebies: Ride the ferry to the Contemporary, then hop on the monorail loop to each of the resorts around the lake. Then catch the monorail to Epcot and back.

You can also enjoy some lengthy scenic rides around the whole complex on the resort buses, and eventually end up at the Boardwalk.

If now is not a good time in your life to spend a lot at Disney, you will get many days of future dreaming for free by touring most of the expensive resort hotels that someday you might be able to vacation at. Wandering around the Wilderness Lodge, the Grand Floridian, the Poly, you name it can be an adventure in theming that would be hard to complete in a day.

There may be some great ideas on the budget boards as well for free or cheap things to add to the vacation in Orlando area.

Hope you enjoy!

Oh, wanted to mention this also - we've been going to WDW for years and now are pretty much limited to going in August due to the school year. We bring sport bottles that have built in charcoal filters that take out a lot of the chlorine taste and any odors in the tap water. I'm normally a soda drinker, but need more water while there in August. We just fill them up at the fountains and sometimes ask for free ice at the counter service restaurants. I've heard of people who bring in individual drink packets (Crystal Light, Kool-Aid, etc) to take the flavor away from the tap water. It's easier to only have to carry one bottle around and refill rather than everyone carrying in a six pack. The filter bottles we use were made by Brita (not in production anymore), but I've seen similar ones at camping supply places on-line like LLBean, Cabelas, etc.

[geishagirl81]

thank you such for the tips. we are doing 6 days now. to do 2 days in the parks with my free birthday pass, as well as one day at NASA, it was going to be $350. 6 day passes were only going to cost us $100 more with a birthday gift card instead. So with that in consideration, it is like only $25 more.

Now i am worried about not having enough time to do DTD and explore FW, lol!

[BradyBz12]

Oh Cindy - the raccoon stuff is KILLING me!!! :lmao: