VGC New Owner / Use Year Issue

[forevercruising]

Are any of you new VGC owners who have use years January, February, March, April, or May frustrated that we do not get 2009 VGC points, when all other use years, June - December are given 2009 VGC points to use, even though the property does not open until November?

I wouldn't be so frustrated if I just understood the reasoning, but my guide can only say "that's just the way it is." It was indicated that there might be some legal, real estate issue, but I have no idea what that might be and neither did my guide. :sad1:

I would completely understand it if all use years received no VGC points until November, when the property opens, but, I do not understand why a contract that is just three months past mine gets a whole extra year of points to use. I think I might understand it if the property opened in June, but it will not open until November, so that seems strange to me. :sad2:

So, here's the bottom line, which is frustrating:

The VGC DVC contract expires January 31, 2060; so, those of us with January, February, March, April, and May use years will get 50 years of use out of our VGC DVC contract; all other use years will get 51 years of use out of the VGC DVC contract. What is frustrating is that all of us, with all use years, are paying the same cost per point, for what we thought was the same contract; however, it does not seem like the same contract now that we (Jan. - May) are getting one less year of points.

I understand that we (Jan. - May) will not pay dues until we get our points in early 2010, but, I would rather get the points and pay the dues in November like the June - December use years than get shortchanged an entire year's use of the VGC DVC. It seems that all use years should receive the 2009 points to bank or use, just like the June - December use years. :scratchin

So, here are my questions:

1. Any other new VGC owners have any similar feelings?

2. And, most importantly, do any of you have a more concrete explanation for this situation?

I am just want to understand the justification behind the reasoning. :confused3

I'm looking forward to your feedback! :coffee:

[dianeschlicht]

Why should you have access to the rest of DVC when you don't have access to your own unit until later in 2009? If your unit is unavialable until November, there would be no points for earlier use years until the following year. It's really no different than when some of us purchased AKV before it opened and had early use years. We have a March use year, but our points couldn't be used until after May when we added on at AKV. It makes perfect sense to me that the points can't be available if the unit isn't.

Think of it this way.... You don't have to pay maintenance fees for the extra 10 months of the year either.

[forevercruising]

Why should you have access to the rest of DVC when you don't have access to your own unit until later in 2009? If your unit is unavialable until November, there would be no points for earlier use years until the following year.

I completely agree! That is why I am confused as to why the June, July, August, September, and October use years get their 2009 points, but the Jan. - May do not. We are purchasing right now, just like the June - December use years, but the June - Oct. use years get the 2009 points before the units are available; we do not. That is where my frustration lies.

I agree with you, Diane! :)

[M4travels]

Well, I was a bit perturbed but only because my guide - whom we really like - was sure that the March Use Year would be 2009 points. (Surprised him too!)Yup, I was hoping for a windfall! Didn't happen. Now, I do understand that the April Use Year did get 2009 points so perturbed went to miffed....and then I got over it. That's how it is. I really don't try to figure out the whys and wherefores. I'm happy with it. I've got developer points that we're using over Valentines Day weekend and we'll have a couple more days of developer points to use before all of it fits together.

I could be more miffed that I didn't get the cruise stuff instead of the developer points....but I'm not. Sometimes it works out for you and sometimes you need to adjust your thinking of what you were expecting.

What would really get me miffed is if someone was getting the GCV points for what the OKW points went for back in 1992....but I'm still going to be at the Grand using developer points over Valentine's Day weekend. We'll be raising a glass of champers at 33 to all who are able to get a piece of the Grand. I know we're loving it.

[forevercruising]

Well, I was a bit perturbed but only because my guide - whom we really like - was sure that the March Use Year would be 2009 points. (Surprised him too!)Yup, I was hoping for a windfall! Didn't happen.

Now, I do understand that the April Use Year did get 2009 points so perturbed went to miffed....and then I got over it.

Wow...April, eh??? Hmmm..that makes it even worse! To think I was just ONE month away! :sad1:

That's how it is. I really don't try to figure out the whys and wherefores. I'm happy with it.

Yes, as am I! I am excited to own at VGC; it was frustrating, though, to know that we'll have to "borrow" our first set of points to go "home" for the first time! :sad2:

Sometimes it works out for you and sometimes you need to adjust your thinking of what you were expecting.

Good point. :rolleyes:

Thanks! :)

[SanDeeKath]

So I am confused?! If you have an April UY, you can get points in 3 months and NOT pay MFs until Nov 2009? HUH?

I have Sept and I got my points already in my account starting Sept 2009...

Katherine

[JW9DVC]

Well, since this is a 50 year resort. You get 50 years worth of points.
Logical thinking below.

If you receive points in April 2009.
That starts the 50, so they would receive the last points April 2058.

If you receive points March 2010.
You would receive your last set on March 2059.

No worries then. JW

[forevercruising]

First, thank you for encouraging me to double check my math, which was off by one year! (I hate that!:upsidedow ) (I changed my math in my original post.) :)

Well, since this is a 50 year resort. You get 50 years worth of points.
Logical thinking below.

If you receive points in April 2009.
That starts the 50, so they would receive the last points April 2058.

If you receive points March 2010.
You would receive your last set on March 2059.

Actually, there is nowhere in my documents that state this is a a "50 year contract." The documents state:

"Ownership interests at The Villas at Disney's Grand Californian Hotel expire on January 31, 2060."

So, my understanding is that the people who are getting 2009 points are, in fact, getting 51 years at VGC, for they will still get points in 2059, just like the rest of us; whereas, those [apparently] three months of us who do not get points until 2010 only get 50 years of membership at VGC.

I cannot find anywhere in my documents that state that the people receiving 2009 points will only receive their points until 2058. If that were the case, this would all make sense to me. :blush:

Perhaps someone who is, in fact, receiving 2009 points for VGC has additional insight from his/her documents?? I could just be so confused that it doesn't make any sense anymore, but, I am trying to figure it all out! :scratchin

[DebbieB]

So I am confused?! If you have an April UY, you can get points in 3 months and NOT pay MFs until Nov 2009? HUH?

I have Sept and I got my points already in my account starting Sept 2009...

Katherine

No, if you buy GCV now, you do not get April 2009 points, your first points will be April 2010. But if you have a June use year, your first points will be June 2009.

[nunzia]

I am more miffed that the contract that said founders could get up to 160 points has now been changed to allow them to get many many more and so now I'm worried I won't get points at all, and with my March use year would be just fine with not getting 2009 points so long as I get them for the next 50 years (If I can handle a trip to DLR at 102 that is)

[M4travels]

No, if you buy GCV now, you do not get April 2009 points, your first points will be April 2010. But if you have a June use year, your first points will be June 2009.
I must have misunderstood someone in an earlier thread then as I thought I read that they were getting their points in 2009 with an April UY. Sorry for the confusion.

[M4travels]

I am more miffed that the contract that said founders could get up to 160 points has now been changed to allow them to get many many more and so now I'm worried I won't get points at all, and with my March use year would be just fine with not getting 2009 points so long as I get them for the next 50 years (If I can handle a trip to DLR at 102 that is)
This, too, is interesting to me as there is nowhere in our contract that talks about being a founding member and who qualifies to be one. We did buy our contract at DLR back in August 2005 and at that time we mentioned to our guide that we would definitely be interested if they did build a DVC out here but we were more interested in learning about WDW and all there was to do in FL. Being able to purchase at GCV has been an added plus that we never planned on.

[tjkraz]

Just thought I'd add that this phenomenon is nothing new.

The first buyers at SSR got a December Use Year with their initial points coming in 12/03. That's also 51 years. Resort did not open until 5/04.

I think it has something to do with the timing of the resort opening. If you have a June Use Year, the resort will be open for at least 6 months of the 2009 Use Year--December '09 to May '10.

By comparison, for something like a February Use Year, it will only be open for 2 months of the '09 Use Year--Dec '09 and Jan '10.

Perhaps 6+ months of occupancy is the minimum for being able to offer points in a given Use Year. :confused3

[forevercruising]

Perhaps 6+ months of occupancy is the minimum for being able to offer points in a given Use Year. :confused3

Hmmm...that sort of makes sense! :)

Thanks for the insight! :goodvibes :) :goodvibes

[dvcaddict!]

I must have misunderstood someone in an earlier thread then as I thought I read that they were getting their points in 2009 with an April UY. Sorry for the confusion.

The UY for my two current contracts is April. I will be purchasing at VGC in the next two weeks and was wondering if I would get my points for 2009? I'm a little confused right now. :)

[forevercruising]

The UY for my two current contracts is April. I will be purchasing at VGC in the next two weeks and was wondering if I would get my points for 2009? I'm a little confused right now. :)

No, you will not get 2009 points at VGC for an April UY. :sad2:

Only June - December UY will get 2009 points. :sad1:

[roberte114]

My question is whether we have to pay MFs for the time that we don't have points. Our use year is February so we wont get our points til February 2010. Am I going to have to pay MFs for the 2 months prior to my February 2010 use year? If so thats kind of a bad deal since you're paying MFs for something that you aren't allowed to use. :confused3

[forevercruising]

My question is whether we have to pay MFs for the time that we don't have points. Our use year is February so we wont get our points til February 2010. Am I going to have to pay MFs for the 2 months prior to my February 2010 use year? If so thats kind of a bad deal since you're paying MFs for something that you aren't allowed to use. :confused3

Jan. - May UY will not pay MF until our 2010 Use Years begin, which is good; however, I'd rather get 2009 pts and pay MF for 2009 than not have 2009 pts and have to borrow pts to go home for the first time.

So, Feb VGC UY will not pay any MF until Feb. 2010.

[JimC]

Dues begin when the resort opens. So we will pay one or two months of 2009 dues, based on the projected opening. Dues are independent of use year.

[forevercruising]

Dues begin when the resort opens. So we will pay one or two months of 2009 dues, based on the projected opening. Dues are independent of use year.

Although I also thought this to be true last week, this is incorrect.

I spent much time discussing this and the use year issue with both my guide and Quality Assurance, so I'm confident that the verbiage in the contract (Purchase Agreement) is correct, as it states:

"In the year of closing, [purchaser] shall be responsible for [purchaser]'s portion of the Annual Dues, calculated by prorating the Annual Dues from either the date of this Agreement. . ., the first day of the [purchaser]'s Use Year or the date on which [purchaser]s Unit at the Condominium is available for occupancy by Club Members, whichever is later, to the end of the calendar year."

So, I have been assured by Quality Assurance (and the contract) that those of us not receiving points until 2010 will not pay any dues until our Use Years begin, in 2010.

Hope this helps!

[roberte114]

After reading this in the purchase agreement I don't know if you're correct. The paragraph states "In the year of closing" which would be this year 2009 and ends with "whichever is later, to the end of the calendar year." The end of the calendar year would mean the end of calendar year 2009. Our use year starts in February 2010 and thus does not apply so in my interpretation I have to start paying MFs when the villas open.

[forevercruising]

After reading this in the purchase agreement I don't know if you're correct. The paragraph states "In the year of closing" which would be this year 2009 and ends with "whichever is later, to the end of the calendar year." The end of the calendar year would mean the end of calendar year 2009. Our use year starts in February 2010 and thus does not apply so in my interpretation I have to start paying MFs when the villas open.

You are correct that the "year of closing" is 2009; however, the latest of the three options (for Jan. - May UY) written in the contract is "the first day of the [purchaser]'s Use Year".

Quality Assurance verified that "the end of the calendar year," in the contract, refers to the end of the calendar year once my UY begins and I begin paying dues. So, I will get my first points in March 2010 and I will only pay MF from that point until the end of that calendar year, 31 December 2010.

While spending quite a bit of time with one of the most veteran representatives in Quality Assurance, she clearly stated, two or three times, that I, having a March UY will not pay any dues until my UY begins in 2010. I asked, point blank, "So, I won't pay any dues when the property opens, correct?" She said, "Correct." She reiterated that, since I have no points, I will pay no dues; when I receive my first set of points, I will begin paying dues. She also said that I would receive my first dues statement in February 2010.

I can only share what I was told by QA and what I perceive the contract to state.

Perhaps someone else could contact QA and verify with them, as well. :confused3

[roberte114]

I think that paragraph is written up wrong and needs updated. It specifically refers only to the calendar year in which you purchase an interest and details how the the MFs are prorated for that specific year. I'm sure that probably in the end we will wind up only paying MFs from the start of our use year which is good but the contract isn't written up that way in my opinion.

[Scott H]

Having a Feb use year we will not get the 2009 points, OK but can we borrow from the 2010 use year, I would think so, but just what I think.

Anyone asked this of DVC?

[ACDSNY]

Having a Feb use year we will not get the 2009 points, OK but can we borrow from the 2010 use year, I would think so, but just what I think.

Anyone asked this of DVC?

I would think you could borrow 2010 points after the opening date of Nov 30th.

[tjkraz]

I would think you could borrow 2010 points after the opening date of Nov 30th.

Just to clarify, you can borrow the points for a stay which occurs anytime after the resort opening. Functionally the points can be borrowed as soon as they begin to accept bookings. But the stay cannot occur until after the resort is open to guests.

[forevercruising]

I would think you could borrow 2010 points after the opening date of Nov 30th.

Correct! :thumbsup2

[maburke]

I say those of us with the earlier UYs that won't get 2009 points should get double developer points! (Or double the cruise offer!) I can understand with the resort only open the last two months of the year, they can't give everyone 2009 points, or there wouldn't be enough reservations available to handle it. But I agree that it's not fair that they get the same amount of money from us, at the same time as everyone else, but we get one fewer year of use.

[forevercruising]

I say those of us with the earlier UYs that won't get 2009 points should get double developer points! (Or double the cruise offer!) I can understand with the resort only open the last two months of the year, they can't give everyone 2009 points, or there wouldn't be enough reservations available to handle it. But I agree that it's not fair that they get the same amount of money from us, at the same time as everyone else, but we get one fewer year of use.

I absolutely agree; I am glad to know that I am not alone in this thinking! I just wish we would all get an equivalent contract with equal years' use, since we are all paying the same price. Double DP's would be a good idea; they would fill the gap of losing a whole year's points in the same contract which is the same price for all buyers.

[JimC]

Although I also thought this to be true last week, this is incorrect.

I spent much time discussing this and the use year issue with both my guide and Quality Assurance, so I'm confident that the verbiage in the contract (Purchase Agreement) is correct, as it states:

"In the year of closing, [purchaser] shall be responsible for [purchaser]'s portion of the Annual Dues, calculated by prorating the Annual Dues from either the date of this Agreement. . ., the first day of the [purchaser]'s Use Year or the date on which [purchaser]s Unit at the Condominium is available for occupancy by Club Members, whichever is later, to the end of the calendar year."

So, I have been assured by Quality Assurance (and the contract) that those of us not receiving points until 2010 will not pay any dues until our Use Years begin, in 2010.

Hope this helps!

I am not disputing what QA told you, but my reading of that paragraph leads me to believe they are referring to 2009 dues only. The key phrase is "in the year of closing..." I interpret that to refer to only how 2009 dues will be handled.

[KAT4DISNEY]

I absolutely agree; I am glad to know that I am not alone in this thinking! I just wish we would all get an equivalent contract with equal years' use, since we are all paying the same price. Double DP's would be a good idea; they would fill the gap of losing a whole year's points in the same contract which is the same price for all buyers.

Have you brought this up to your guides?

[forevercruising]

Have you brought this up to your guides?

Absolutely. I have had lengthy "complaint" sessions with both my guide and QA; the basic answer is, "That's just the way it is." QA did give me some technical justification for the differentiation between the buyers' contract values, some of which I understood, but, I still feel short-changed. According to my guide and QA, this is just the way it is; in fact, one of them (I can't remember which one) said it's just "luck of the draw" that my use year is not one which receives the 2009 points. :sad2:

[Scott H]

Thanks for the info, I should have been more clear, I would borrow the points for a stay elsewhere.

Bummer on the Luck of the Feb UY draw for us. Oh well.

I do like the double DP idea.

[tjkraz]

Absolutely. I have had lengthy "complaint" sessions with both my guide and QA; the basic answer is, "That's just the way it is." QA did give me some technical justification for the differentiation between the buyers' contract values, some of which I understood, but, I still feel short-changed. According to my guide and QA, this is just the way it is; in fact, one of them (I can't remember which one) said it's just "luck of the draw" that my use year is not one which receives the 2009 points. :sad2:

Like I said, that's pretty consistent with how things have been done in the past. With SSR some buyers got 2003 UY points (resort opened May '04) while most didn't get their first points until the 2004 UY.

I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with AKV.

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks for the info, I should have been more clear, I would borrow the points for a stay elsewhere.

Bummer on the Luck of the Feb UY draw for us. Oh well.

I do like the double DP idea.

As was previously posted - you cannot borrow your points to use for a stay anywhere until GCV is open. But you are allowed to make the reservation up to 7 months in advance for other properties.
The theory behind Dev. Pts. (as well as being an incentive) is that you'll have points that are valid for immediate stays since your regular points are not.

[forevercruising]

that's pretty consistent with how things have been done in the past. With SSR some buyers got 2003 UY points (resort opened May '04) while most didn't get their first points until the 2004 UY.

I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with AKV.

Thanks for reminding me that my situation is not new. :)

I have been so excited to buy VGC that I just got frustrated when I found out that I won't have points to go "home" as soon as it opens (without borrowing, that is!). :guilty:

I appreciate the different viewpoints shared in this thread; they are helping to minimize my frustration. :upsidedow

[DVC4me4Ever]

I am just glad I have a June UY so I am able to grab some more 2009 points since all of my other ones are gone! I have no idea why June UYs get the points and the months prior to June do not....that is a Disney mystery to me!

[squidmo]

I am just glad I have a June UY so I am able to grab some more 2009 points since all of my other ones are gone! I have no idea why June UYs get the points and the months prior to June do not....that is a Disney mystery to me!

I'm thinking the cutoff point is related to banking deadlines- they won't give you points for use years where the banking deadline will have passed before the resort opens.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I'm thinking the cutoff point is related to banking deadlines- they won't give you points for use years where the banking deadline will have passed before the resort opens.

But now that the opening date is late September that's not the case anymore. I have a March UY and I have until the end of Oct to bank my points. I really should get my 2009 points and be able to bank them. I don't see why that would cause a problem.

[malonefamily]

But now that the opening date is late September that's not the case anymore. I have a March UY and I have until the end of Oct to bank my points. I really should get my 2009 points and be able to bank them. I don't see why that would cause a problem.

We were very concerned about wanting 2009 points, so we insisted on a June UY when we added on at GCV. This annoyed our guide since we have a 250 point SSR contract with a Feb. UY. "You'll lose points, you'll never keep it straight." etc. I didn't care, I wanted usable points now (since we were getting the cruise incentive and no developer points). At the moment it's great, since we didn't have to borrow more than a few points for our October trip to Disneyland... hope I don't regret it a few years down the road when I essentially have two completely unrelated DVC memberships to juggle.

I'd almost rather give up the SSR contract and get another June UY contract somewhere else before I'd give up the GCV, why that place isn't sold out is beyond me. Having stayed at the hotel several times, I can say without equivocation that it's by far my favorite DVC location-wise, and with a great theme too.

[ACDSNY]

We were very concerned about wanting 2009 points, so we insisted on a June UY when we added on at GCV. This annoyed our guide since we have a 250 point SSR contract with a Feb. UY. "You'll lose points, you'll never keep it straight." etc.

Two UY aren't too bad. We're down to 100 SSR points in our Feb UY as I wanted our VGC to be in an Aug UY. I solve the problem by constantly borrowing points in our SSR contract so I don't have any leftover points to loose.

[forevercruising]

We were very concerned about wanting 2009 points, so we insisted on a June UY when we added on at GCV. This annoyed our guide since we have a 250 point SSR contract with a Feb. UY.

We would have made the exact same decision as you did, had our guide told us that we would not get 2009 points with our March UY. :sad2:

Our main frustration was that we were never told about the discrepancies between the 2009 and 2010 points and different use years; had we been given all of the information from our guide, up front, then we would have been able to make the choice of keeping the same March UY and giving up the 2009 points, or creating a new UY (we would have chosen a June UY, which would work great for us) and dealing with the contract juggling.

The most upsetting part of this process was finding out, two months after we had finalized our purchase, that we would only get 50 years of points, when others would get 51 years of points; knowing that we all paid the same amount for our contracts was disappointing.

After this experience, we now know that these discrepancies are standard fare for new DVC properties; we just did not know beforehand and were never told by our guide, who we trusted.

We simply would have made a different decision, had we been given all of the information at the time of our purchase. Our guide just assumed that we would want the same UY as our other contract; unfortunately, that assumption was incorrect.

We had no idea that we should have specifically asked if there would be discrepancies between owners and/or use years :confused3; we know now!

[thelionqueen]

OK so here's a situation I could use some help with.
We just changed our contract to give up the cruise incentive to use my CM discount, so all the docs need to be redone.
We have a Feb use year with BLT, and I was told by my guide the same as everyone else, it's a nightmare, you don't want 2 different use years, etc. so we were going to stick with Feb.

This is a new master contract of 130 points @ GCV. Should I change my use year to June to get the 2009 points? If I switch my use year can it be any month June-Dec to get 2009 points? If I do that, will my MF's be charged right away?

BTW, he is redoing the docs today so quick responses would be appreciated!

Any advice? Thanks!

[forevercruising]

This is a new master contract of 130 points @ GCV.

During our researching and talking to Member Satisfaction, we learned that you can only change your use year (to a new one, which is June, in your situation) if you purchase a whole new master contract; a new master contract must be at least 160 points. So, 130 points will not be enough for you to choose a new use year, according to what we were told.

Should I change my use year to June to get the 2009 points? If I switch my use year can it be any month June-Dec to get 2009 points?

If you want 09 points, you will have to have a UY of June through December; that is correct.

If I do that, will my MF's be charged right away?

Probably, but I'm not sure; since we only get 2010 points, our MF do not begin until the beginning of that year. Perhaps you will only pay MF once the property opens in September.

Hope this helps!

Good luck! :goodvibes :) :goodvibes

[Sandisw]

OK so here's a situation I could use some help with.
We just changed our contract to give up the cruise incentive to use my CM discount, so all the docs need to be redone.
We have a Feb use year with BLT, and I was told by my guide the same as everyone else, it's a nightmare, you don't want 2 different use years, etc. so we were going to stick with Feb.

This is a new master contract of 130 points @ GCV. Should I change my use year to June to get the 2009 points? If I switch my use year can it be any month June-Dec to get 2009 points? If I do that, will my MF's be charged right away?

BTW, he is redoing the docs today so quick responses would be appreciated!

Any advice? Thanks!

The MF's for VGC will be prorated for 2009 and will begin from when the resort opens or your UY in 2009 starts, whichever is later.

So, if you get a June UY,then your fees will be for the months that it is open. If you get a later UY, like Oct, which is after the resort opens, then you will only pay from Oct until the end of the year (3 months).

I believe that you will need to get 160 points to switch UY's--of course, that is what is standard practice and we all know that there are times when members have gotten Disney to "bend the rules".

Good luck!!

[thelionqueen]

Thanks for all the great information, it is just what I needed to know!
Just for the record, it is correct that a new master contract must be at least 160 points, but that amount is different for CM's, so I would qualify for the 2009 points and less than a 160 point minimum contract.

Now that I know the answer, another question is should I? Is it REALLY that big of a deal to have 2 different use years? My guide told me that it gets very confusing when banking 2 different use years, and borrowing from one contract to put into another. I am an AVID pre-planning and detail oriented FREAK, so this doesn't scare me on the surface. Anything else going I should be aware of? Thanks again!

[ACDSNY]

As long as you think of them as two totally separate contracts due to the different UY you'll be fine.

[LIFERBABE]

Like I said, that's pretty consistent with how things have been done in the past. With SSR some buyers got 2003 UY points (resort opened May '04) while most didn't get their first points until the 2004 UY.

I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with AKV.

Yep, this is why I have 2 UY's. I was buying (adding on) over 160 SSR points (when they ran out of points to sell that time) and I wanted the current years points so I added a later UY. When we purchased VGC we were able to choose which UY to add to. March or September. September had the 2009 points so we put our VGC points in September. I'll pay prorated dues for 2009 and we got the cruise :wizard:

I like having the 2 banking windows also with the new banking rules so it worked out.

My biggest issue with 2 UY's is the waitlist. If you waitlist on 1 UY and it comes thru, you cannot cross UY's for the points to confirm the waitlist. So if BCV comes thru on my March UY and I dont have enough points to confirm it, I cant use points from my Sept UY. If I waitlist both UY's for the same villa, they work independent of each other just as if I were 2 different members.

The 1 transfer rule applies also between UY's.

Im in borrow and buy mode, so I have no issues with the banking deadlines :)

[lark]

Just want to be sure I'm understanding this -- I realize that much of this thread was written earlier this year.

We're considering a new VGC contract of 160 points. June would be our preferred use year. Does this mean that if we were to buy now, and if June were available, we'd get 2009 points?

[forevercruising]

We're considering a new VGC contract of 160 points. June would be our preferred use year. Does this mean that if we were to buy now, and if June were available, we'd get 2009 points?

Yes, that is correct! :thumbsup2 If you selected a Jan. through May UY, you would NOT get 09 points; June through December get 09 points.

You'll have fun using your first set of points!

Good luck on the final steps of the process! :goodvibes :) :goodvibes

[lark]

Yes, that is correct! :thumbsup2 If you selected a Jan. through May UY, you would NOT get 09 points; June through December get 09 points.

You'll have fun using your first set of points!

Good luck on the final steps of the process! :goodvibes :) :goodvibes

Thanks very much. Let me try to summarize what I think I understand. If I buy 160 VGC points in the upcoming couple of weeks and can get a June UY, the following will be my situation.

1) I will get 160 points for 2009. I have to use these points by May 31, 2010 if I don't bank them. That means to use the points at VGC, I'm already outside my home resort preference period except mid-March to end of May 2010. If I want to book a stay before that, I'm competing with people who have any points and I should expect my options may be limited.

2) I can bank the points, which I can do any time before the end of February.

3) Using a 7 month window, I can use the points at any other DVC resort for a stay prior to May 31, 2010, so long as the beginning of the stay is after the expected opening date of VGC -- some time in September. I don't, though, need to wait until September to book -- I can book any time within the 7 month window.

4) My MFs will start as of the opening date and be prorated for 2009.

Does that sound accurate?

Thanks very much in advance.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Yes, that is correct! :thumbsup2 If you selected a Jan. through May UY, you would NOT get 09 points; June through December get 09 points.

You'll have fun using your first set of points!

Good luck on the final steps of the process! :goodvibes :) :goodvibes

Forever, Just to update on my situation with the 2009 points. In the last two days or so, I've spoken to Member satisfaction who told me to call Quality Assurance who then told me to call my Guide.

Member Satisfaction didn't have an answer as to why I don't get 2009 points ( but she said that I had very good questions and she would pass them on to leadership-whatever that means) and the woman at QA said "maybe" it was because of inventory or "maybe" it was because of the cruise incentive or " maybe" it was because of other legalities( but offering nothing specific on what that legality could be). Bottom line, she didn't have a defintive answer either. She said to call my guide. I suspect my guide won't have an answer that makes any sense. I called him yesterday so I'm hoping I hear back from him today.

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks very much. Let me try to summarize what I think I understand. If I buy 160 VGC points in the upcoming couple of weeks and can get a June UY, the following will be my situation.

1) I will get 160 points for 2009. I have to use these points by May 31, 2010 if I don't bank them. That means to use the points at VGC, I'm already outside my home resort preference period except mid-March to end of May 2010. If I want to book a stay before that, I'm competing with people who have any points and I should expect my options may be limited. That is correct, but so far booking within 7 months has not caused great difficulties. Unless you want to go on a very popular weekend you will probably be able to make a reservation.

2) I can bank the points, which I can do any time before the end of February.
The banking deadline for June is Jan 31st.

3) Using a 7 month window, I can use the points at any other DVC resort for a stay prior to May 31, 2010, so long as the beginning of the stay is after the expected opening date of VGC -- some time in September. I don't, though, need to wait until September to book -- I can book any time within the 7 month window.Correct

4) My MFs will start as of the opening date and be prorated for 2009.Correct

Does that sound accurate?

Thanks very much in advance.

Forever, Just to update on my situation with the 2009 points. In the last two days or so, I've spoken to Member satisfaction who told me to call Quality Assurance who then told me to call my Guide.

Member Satisfaction didn't have an answer as to why I don't get 2009 points ( but she said that I had very good questions and she would pass them on to leadership-whatever that means) and the woman at QA said "maybe" it was because of inventory or "maybe" it was because of the cruise incentive or " maybe" it was because of other legalities( but offering nothing specific on what that legality could be). Bottom line, she didn't have a defintive answer either. She said to call my guide. I suspect my guide won't have an answer that makes any sense. I called him yesterday so I'm hoping I hear back from him today.

It will be interesting to see what you guide comes up with. It seemed to make some sense when the opening was scheduled for late Nov., although it certainly did not make me happy. But as it turns out they were quite conservative on the completion date and now a Sept. opening makes it very similar to what BLt was originally scheduled for and all UY's received 2009 points there. It no longer makes sense for GCV that part of the UY's do not receive points.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

It will be interesting to see what you guide comes up with. It seemed to make some sense when the opening was scheduled for late Nov., although it certainly did not make me happy. But as it turns out they were quite conservative on the completion date and now a Sept. opening makes it very similar to what BLt was originally scheduled for and all UY's received 2009 points there. It no longer makes sense for GCV that part of the UY's do not receive points.

Bingo! If BLT opens in August and all UY's get 20009 points , then why is it different for GCV owners when the resort only opens one month later?

And my guide did not return my call yet.

[KAT4DISNEY]

Bingo! If BLT opens in August and all UY's get 20009 points , then why is it different for GCV owners when the resort only opens one month later?

And my guide did not return my call yet.

Even better - BLT was originally slated for a Sept opening and still all UY's received points.

[thelionqueen]

I spoke to my guide yesterday regarding 09 points. He told me that it doesn't matter what UY I choose, I will get 2009 points. Please keep in mind my guide has a history of incorrect information, but he assured me this was the case. He is submitting my rewrite today and said he was going to call me once it was submitted, reassuring me of the acquisition of 09 points. We will see.

BTW, I decided not to push the rewrite just in case the new incentives are better than the one I have now, my guide (me included) does not think the new incentive will be better than the current one. I'll post when he calls

[lark]

Kat -- thanks for the answers above. I appreciate it.

[KAT4DISNEY]

I spoke to my guide yesterday regarding 09 points. He told me that it doesn't matter what UY I choose, I will get 2009 points. Please keep in mind my guide has a history of incorrect information, but he assured me this was the case. He is submitting my rewrite today and said he was going to call me once it was submitted, reassuring me of the acquisition of 09 points. We will see.

BTW, I decided not to push the rewrite just in case the new incentives are better than the one I have now, my guide (me included) does not think the new incentive will be better than the current one. I'll post when he calls

What is your UY?

Kat -- thanks for the answers above. I appreciate it.
You're welcome lark!

[thelionqueen]

My BLT contract has a Feb UY so I'd like my GCV contract Feb as well, but if I can get 09 points I'd opt for a Dec UY. My guide didn't call today, didn't expect him to, so I will post when he does confirm.

[nunzia]

Bingo! If BLT opens in August and all UY's get 20009 points , then why is it different for GCV owners when the resort only opens one month later?

And my guide did not return my call yet.

Very good point..I didn't realize that all BLT buyers got 2009 points..I'll be very interested in hearing what comes of this.

[tjkraz]

While the opening date of the resort is one factor, another would be the projected sales track for each property.

Since BLT is a much larger resort DVC could, in effect, use the points from unsold units at the time of opening to subsidize that first year's points for members. In the case of VGC, I suspect DVC projected that the resort would be much closer to sold-out (if not completely gone) by opening day. Thus there would have been little-to-no unsold points to help pad the accounts of early buyers.

Even though the resort is opening sooner than expected and sales are apparently quite slow, it probably doesn't matter since the first point allocation is listed in the contract. My contract says point start February 2010, so that's what DVC is obligated to give me.

I don't believe there was any duplicity on DVC's part--they were simply working from projections available when sales began 6 months ago.

[wdrl]

I spoke to my guide yesterday regarding 09 points. He told me that it doesn't matter what UY I choose, I will get 2009 points. Please keep in mind my guide has a history of incorrect information, but he assured me this was the case.

Can you clarify something for me? Did your Guide state that you would get GCV points if you had chosen a February, March, or April UY?

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

While the opening date of the resort is one factor, another would be the projected sales track for each property.

Since BLT is a much larger resort DVC could, in effect, use the points from unsold units at the time of opening to subsidize that first year's points for members. In the case of VGC, I suspect DVC projected that the resort would be much closer to sold-out (if not completely gone) by opening day. Thus there would have been little-to-no unsold points to help pad the accounts of early buyers.

Even though the resort is opening sooner than expected and sales are apparently quite slow, it probably doesn't matter since the first point allocation is listed in the contract. My contract says point start February 2010, so that's what DVC is obligated to give me.

I don't believe there was any duplicity on DVC's part--they were simply working from projections available when sales began 6 months ago.

Tim, I appreciate you trying to give an explanation that makes some sense.

Quality Assurance and Member Satisfacation haven't been able to do that.
They kept talking in circles with different explanations. It was like they were throwing darts up on the wall and seeing if any of them would be acceptable to me.

There should be a rule or a formula that they use to determine who gets points and there should be some transparency here so that we, the members, can understand why points are being distributed in the way that they are for BLT and why circumstances are so different in the case of GCV. I don't think thats too much to ask. Still haven't heard back from my guide.

[thelionqueen]

Can you clarify something for me? Did your Guide state that you would get GCV points if you had chosen a February, March, or April UY?

Yes, that is what he told me!! I asked the same question in at least 3 different ways to make sure he understood the question and I the answer, and that is what he told me. I am still awaiting word from him that the rewrite has been submitted and absolute confirmation of 2009 points with a Feb (my UY) use year. I will keep you all posted.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Just following up here about the VGC 2009 UY subject. I've spoken to Member Satisfaction, Quality Assurance and our sales guide. The only reason that anyone can sorta give me as to why Feb-Mar-April UY don't get 2009 points has to do with just one word and that word is "inventory". When asked to explain what that means, I was told that its complicated and has to do with available (and here is that word again) "inventory" when units are sold and blah, blah, blah. It took two calls to my sales guide to get him to return my call. He said that I had good questions but he didn't have the answers which was the same response that I received from Member Satisfaction- good questions but I have no answers. I had two main questions which were something like:

1.Why don't Feb-March-April get 2009 UY points when the resort opens in September?

2. Why did all BLT owners receive 2009 UY points when BLT opened in August? Why is it a different situation in the case of VGC?

No answers given and none received weeks later. My sales guide said he would have to call some people to find out the answers because he is interested in knowing the answers too. Never heard back from him. Although when he called us and left a message while we were at OKW week before last he left his usual welcome home message for us and let me know that he think the point issue is mainly because of --guess what -- inventory!


Finally on the DVC website in my 2009 UY it says that my total number of points for the year is 330 (230 at AKV and 100 at VGC). Except I didn't receive the 2009 points from VGC. So really my total points in 230 and not 330 for 2009. In fact, we have two 50 point contracts at VGC and under each individual contract, it says that for 2009 UY there are 50 points for the year but none are actually allocated. Any else with a Feb-Mar-April UY have that situation on their account? My guide says to call Member Administration and maybe they can fix that because thats not what he sees. Quality Assurance says that they don't see that either and neither does Member Satisfaction.

If I ever add -on again, it will be with a different guide. In fact, I'm debating switching guides now even if I never add-on again.

[forevercruising]

Finally on the DVC website in my 2009 UY it says that my total number of points for the year is 330 (230 at AKV and 100 at VGC). Except I didn't receive the 2009 points from VGC. So really my total points in 230 and not 330 for 2009. In fact, we have two 50 point contracts at VGC and under each individual contract, it says that for 2009 UY there are 50 points for the year but none are actually allocated. Any else with a Feb-Mar-April UY have that situation on their account? My guide says to call Member Administration and maybe they can fix that because thats not what he sees. Quality Assurance says that they don't see that either and neither does Member Satisfaction.

Well...you might be closer to having 2009 points than we are, for our 2009 points shown on the DVC website only show our 160 SSR points; there is no indication whatsoever that 2009 VGC points even exist (even though we own 160 VGC, March UY -- there is nothing at all listed about them in 2009). :confused3

Perhaps you have made enough waves with the right people and, one of these days, your points will magically show up in your account for 2009! :yay:

Keep us updated; we are sharing the same boat; enjoy the ride! :rotfl:

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well...you might be closer to having 2009 points than we are, for our 2009 points shown on the DVC website only show our 160 SSR points; there is no indication whatsoever that 2009 VGC points even exist (even though we own 160 VGC, March UY -- there is nothing at all listed about them in 2009). :confused3

Perhaps you have made enough waves with the right people and, one of these days, your points will magically show up in your account for 2009! :yay:

Keep us updated; we are sharing the same boat; enjoy the ride! :rotfl:

It's the same with us. You'd never know that we had bought our Apr UY VGC in January. Nothing shows on it until the 2010 points.

[Quilter007]

Member satisfaction team & the guides......sigh! Both are mis-named! Member satisfaction team provides no satisfaction all they do is listen & hope that makes you feel better and that you'll stop calling & yelling at peopls and the guides are just sales people. More big sighs!

Really, really hoping we love VGC........really, really hoping....... trying not to be tense about it! Very glad I don't have this use year issue with the missing points -- that really stinks for you guys! I sent in an email on your behalf. Just because they haven't gotten a whining email from me in a couple of weeks and I don't want them to get lonely! :scared1:

[dclfun]

Has anyone with an April UY gotten their 2009 points- mine are showing available for 2010 only- and this issue was NEVER addressed with me when I purchased my add-on.---Kathy

[tjkraz]

Finally on the DVC website in my 2009 UY it says that my total number of points for the year is 330 (230 at AKV and 100 at VGC). Except I didn't receive the 2009 points from VGC.

I might be able to shed some light on why some are "seeing" their 2009 VGC points and others are not.

A couple days ago I called to book a non-VGC trip and had to borrow two points from my VGC holdings. Prior to this time there was no mention of 2009 VGC points in my account either.

While making this reservation the rep had to put me on hold for a few minutes. When she came back on, she said something about needing to get help to "fix the use year" on those VGC points.

When I looked at the website later, like Robo-Daddy 3000 my 2009 totals included the VGC allocation although I was never able to use those points.

So it may be something that has to be "fixed" in the computer whenever someone books with their VGC points for the first time. Or perhaps when VGC points are borrowed.

Has anyone with an April UY gotten their 2009 points- mine are showing available for 2010 only- and this issue was NEVER addressed with me when I purchased my add-on.---Kathy

Your paperwork should stipulate that the first points you will receive are in 2010.

[thelionqueen]

OK, so if I told you all the drama regarding my rewrite you wouldn't believe it. Let's just say that part of it is that FedEx lost my package..yeah right. (not lost from DVC, lost from broker in CO that is required to manage paperwork). I digress, back to the story.

Needless to say I haven't gotten the 2nd set of paperwork back yet so I can't give any new info. on getting 09 points. My guide assured me, over and over, that I would get 09 points with my Feb UY.

Considering we're going on month 3 with this add-on, I have no idea what is going to show up. I'm assuming that once I finally receive the docs, it will show no points for 09 (despite guarantee from my guide that I will get them). I will keep you posted!

[SoCalKDG]

Bingo! If BLT opens in August and all UY's get 20009 points , then why is it different for GCV owners when the resort only opens one month later?
GCV was originally supposed to open in Dec. 2009. All members that were purchasing from the beginning of the year up through May were told this was the opening date. It wasn't until June, I believe, that opening day was moved up. So that was going to be 4 months after BLT, which is the Jan - April 2009 UY that people didn't get points. With a resort not open for the UY that people would have had at the beginning of the year, it would seem impossible to give out points.

Here is a question. Before purchasing didn't everyone know that Jan - April didn't get 2009 points while June and later did? If so couldn't people have pushed for a later use year? Or not purchased at all if this was a sticking point? Has DVC changed their mind and decided to give people 2009 points for use years of Jan - April?

[Tozzie]

OK, so if I told you all the drama regarding my rewrite you wouldn't believe it. Let's just say that part of it is that FedEx lost my package..yeah right. (not lost from DVC, lost from broker in CO that is required to manage paperwork). I digress, back to the story.

Needless to say I haven't gotten the 2nd set of paperwork back yet so I can't give any new info. on getting 09 points. My guide assured me, over and over, that I would get 09 points with my Feb UY.

Considering we're going on month 3 with this add-on, I have no idea what is going to show up. I'm assuming that once I finally receive the docs, it will show no points for 09 (despite guarantee from my guide that I will get them). I will keep you posted!


I have a February use year and did not get 2009 points nor are they showing up on DVC member site until 2010 and the computer issue doens't have anything to do with when you first use the points as I am using some of my 2010 points for WDW in March and had no issues when I booked the trip in August. There may be an issue with the computer if you are borrowing the points for a trip before you actually have the points. Say I wanted to use the VGC points in January 2010 and I have a February use year, I am not being issued points until Feb 2010 so they aren't letting me borrow points they are advancing points to me, that is what was explained to me when I did my add on.

Now I honestly don't think anyone with a Feb, March or April use year is going to get 2009 points, as then they would have a big issue as many contracts have closed and they would have to then give them to everyone with those use years.

[Tozzie]

GCV was originally supposed to open in Dec. 2009. All members that were purchasing from the beginning of the year up through May were told this was the opening date. It wasn't until June, I believe, that opening day was moved up. So that was going to be 4 months after BLT, which is the Jan - April 2009 UY that people didn't get points. With a resort not open for the UY that people would have had at the beginning of the year, it would seem impossible to give out points.

Here is a question. Before purchasing didn't everyone know that Jan - April didn't get 2009 points while June and later did? If so couldn't people have pushed for a later use year? Or not purchased at all if this was a sticking point? Has DVC changed their mind and decided to give people 2009 points for use years of Jan - April?


I was informed that I wouldn't get February use year points for 2009 and I was okay with that. You can't get a different use year if you are doing an add on you have to have the same use year unless you wanted a new master contract and 160 points. The contracts were written with the points begining in 2010 so DVC can't just give 2009 points and many contracts have already closed.

[KAT4DISNEY]

The contracts were written with the points begining in 2010 so DVC can't just give 2009 points and many contracts have already closed.

I don't know if these is exactly true. Perhaps they couldn't technically give out 2009 VGC points but I don't know what would stop them from now compensating with DP's to the UY's that didn't receive 2009 points.

When BLT went on sale the first purchasers did not receive DP's. A short while later they started offering them and when people called to complain they were given them retro actively - and I do think that many of them had closed on their contracts. Since there is a lot of unsold VGC there should be developer inventory that could be restricted to VGC use.

If the initial reason for the early UY's not receiving 2009 points was b/c they didn't have inventory I would think that an opening 2 months earlier would free up some unexpected inventory. And when BLT originally had a Sept opening they felt there would be enough inventory to give to all UY's. :confused3

[forevercruising]

Here is a question. Before purchasing didn't everyone know that Jan - April didn't get 2009 points while June and later did? If so couldn't people have pushed for a later use year? Or not purchased at all if this was a sticking point?

Yes, we knew when we signed our contract that our March UY would not get points until 2010; however, we were led to believe that EVERYONE (all UY's) would have to wait to get points until 2010; our guide never once mentioned that June through December UY's would get 2009 points, but we would not. Had she informed us of this we would absolutely have chosen a new, June UY, for we purchased 160 points, so having a new master contract would not have been an issue for us (neither would the hassle of having two Use Years, for we plan to sell our SSR contract soon).

Had we been told that others were getting 2009 points, but we would not, our first move would have been to change to a June UY. . . . Had we only been given the whole story. . . NOW we know the questions to ask, but now it is too late.

In fact, we never knew anyone was getting 2009 points until a few months after signing our contracts in January, when I read here on the DIS that some VGC owners were receiving 2009 points. As already mentioned, by then, it was too late.

[thelionqueen]

I have a February use year and did not get 2009 points nor are they showing up on DVC member site until 2010 and the computer issue doens't have anything to do with when you first use the points as I am using some of my 2010 points for WDW in March and had no issues when I booked the trip in August. There may be an issue with the computer if you are borrowing the points for a trip before you actually have the points. Say I wanted to use the VGC points in January 2010 and I have a February use year, I am not being issued points until Feb 2010 so they aren't letting me borrow points they are advancing points to me, that is what was explained to me when I did my add on.

Now I honestly don't think anyone with a Feb, March or April use year is going to get 2009 points, as then they would have a big issue as many contracts have closed and they would have to then give them to everyone with those use years.

I'm completely confused by this entire post :confused3
I'm assuming that even though you quoted my post you are addressing someone else's question as I had no issue with seeing or booking my points online.

So far, everyone has been told that if they have a Jan-April UY they are not getting 2009 points. What I've posted all along is that my guide ASSURED me, that with my Feb UY I WOULD get 2009 points. What I was posting was an update to my add-on (technically new master contract). I told everyone that I would post an update when I got my docs, but my docs got lost.

And they did give retro DP's to BLT owner's who closed before DPs were announced, so there is a possibility of possibly getting 2009 points by looking at that example.

Since my contract is a new master contract (130 pts-CM contract) I CAN request a different UY than my BLT contract with no problem. I'm just waiting to see what my docs say vs. what my guide told me (assuming there will be NO 2009 points). I'm just wondering if changing UY's would be worth it or not if I don't get 2009 points. The saga continues...

[jpeka65844]

We were fine with this at first, but in retrospect, we're wanting the 2009 points. We asked for a March UY, seeing as how we occasionally travel over Spring Break. But, seeing as it will most likely be 2-3 years b/t trips, maybe a March UY isn't that important.....

We have our paperwork....haven't signed and returned it yet. Would it be too much of a hassle now to contact our guide and ask for a different UY? They have our downpayment already and we wouldn't change the price of anything and the incentive hasn't changed. That's 50 pts in our pocket......

[KAT4DISNEY]

We were fine with this at first, but in retrospect, we're wanting the 2009 points. We asked for a March UY, seeing as how we occasionally travel over Spring Break. But, seeing as it will most likely be 2-3 years b/t trips, maybe a March UY isn't that important.....

We have our paperwork....haven't signed and returned it yet. Would it be too much of a hassle now to contact our guide and ask for a different UY? They have our downpayment already and we wouldn't change the price of anything and the incentive hasn't changed. That's 50 pts in our pocket......

Since you haven't signed and returned the paperwork yet it really is no problem. Call your guide and they will send out new paperwork with the change requested.

[tjkraz]

We have our paperwork....haven't signed and returned it yet. Would it be too much of a hassle now to contact our guide and ask for a different UY? They have our downpayment already and we wouldn't change the price of anything and the incentive hasn't changed. That's 50 pts in our pocket......

FYI, for add-ons of under 160 points, they will only sell you points with the same use year as your current holdings. Only for a 160+ point purchase will they let you buy a new master contract with a different UY.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Yes, we knew when we signed our contract that our March UY would not get points until 2010; however, we were led to believe that EVERYONE (all UY's) would have to wait to get points until 2010; our guide never once mentioned that June through December UY's would get 2009 points, but we would not. Had she informed us of this we would absolutely have chosen a new, June UY, for we purchased 160 points, so having a new master contract would not have been an issue for us (neither would the hassle of having two Use Years, for we plan to sell our SSR contract soon).

Had we been told that others were getting 2009 points, but we would not, our first move would have been to change to a June UY. . . . Had we only been given the whole story. . . NOW we know the questions to ask, but now it is too late.

In fact, we never knew anyone was getting 2009 points until a few months after signing our contracts in January, when I read here on the DIS that some VGC owners were receiving 2009 points. As already mentioned, by then, it was too late.

Forever Cruising, This really sums up my feelings on the situation as well. My guide conveniently didn't let me know that others were getting 2009 points but that we weren't. I've requested another guide but haven't heard anything back yet from DVC.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

While the opening date of the resort is one factor, another would be the projected sales track for each property.

Since BLT is a much larger resort DVC could, in effect, use the points from unsold units at the time of opening to subsidize that first year's points for members. In the case of VGC, I suspect DVC projected that the resort would be much closer to sold-out (if not completely gone) by opening day. Thus there would have been little-to-no unsold points to help pad the accounts of early buyers.

Even though the resort is opening sooner than expected and sales are apparently quite slow, it probably doesn't matter since the first point allocation is listed in the contract. My contract says point start February 2010, so that's what DVC is obligated to give me.

I don't believe there was any duplicity on DVC's part--they were simply working from projections available when sales began 6 months ago.

Tim, After reading the above again and learning a little more about this "you don't get 2009 points because you have a Feb-Mar-April UY" it makes me wonder about this whole projected sales scenario that you outlined above.

Back in March/April when I bought my points and the resort was going to open in December, which UY's were told that they were going to receive 2009 points. It would seem to me that no one would be getting 2009 points back then. At some point, buyers had to be contacted and told that the resort was opening earlier and that you are now getting points for 2009 that you didn't originally think you were going to get. I'm not sure if that would have been based on sales figures or simply the fact that the resort was ready to open earlier than expected.

This whole idea of arbitrarily picking a few months as not being eligible for 2009 points is unfair and very secretive. Why were Feb-March-April singled out as not being eligible for 2009 points? I know that it has something to do with inventory but after that the details get very sketchy.And believe me, I've tried to get details from every source that I've been referred to-Quality Assurance, Member Services, Member Administration, Member Accounting, my useless Guide- but everybody passes the buck to some one else.

This situation has truly soured me on own my purchase. I hate spending $11,000 and feeling that I got less in return for my money than others who spent the same $11,000 on the same day. The other bothersome item here for me is that my sale and my dollars were used to declare DVC inventory so that members can start booking those rooms (my room) but I'm not one of the members who received points.

Believe me, I'll enjoy my incentive cruise in December and I'll enjoy my first trip to VGC when I get there in 2011 or 2012 or whenever they finish CarsLand but I'll never forget this slimy add-on lesson from DVC.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I might be able to shed some light on why some are "seeing" their 2009 VGC points and others are not.

A couple days ago I called to book a non-VGC trip and had to borrow two points from my VGC holdings. Prior to this time there was no mention of 2009 VGC points in my account either.

While making this reservation the rep had to put me on hold for a few minutes. When she came back on, she said something about needing to get help to "fix the use year" on those VGC points.

When I looked at the website later, like Robo-Daddy 3000 my 2009 totals included the VGC allocation although I was never able to use those points.

So it may be something that has to be "fixed" in the computer whenever someone books with their VGC points for the first time. Or perhaps when VGC points are borrowed.



I was on the phone yesterday with Member Services for nearly an hour regarding this subject.

After speaking with 3 different people (who all gave me different explanations in an effort to get me off the phone), I finally spoke with a supervisor who was able to explain why I'm seeing the points in 2009UY even though she told me over and over that I was not actually receiving 2009UY points because I have March UY.

Here is the deal. I was borrowing 2010 VGC points into my 2009UY. But because I didn't receive 2009 points because of my unworthy March UY, there was no place or no folder in which to put my borrowed points in my 2009 UY. Thus, in order for me to borrow VGC points from 2010 to 2009, Member Services had to manually create a folder in 2009 so that my points would have a place to stay in 2009. So by creating this folder, it shows more total points in my account for 2009 than I actually have because I didn't actually receive 100 VGC points in 2009 even though it now looks like I did.

[thelionqueen]

Well, my new master GCV saga continues.....
I got my re-write docs which again, my guide ASSURED me I would be getting 2009 points with my Feb UY. Can you guess what I found out? YUP, no 2009 points. I spoke with a supervisor who very matter-a-factly (not rude at all) why I woudn't qualify for 2009 points. She indicated that since the resort was not open until Sept., there has to be a "reasonable" amount of time between the advertised opening and the actual opening to allow for 2009 points. I have no idea why, but this explanation made total sense to me right off the bat. Since GCV didn't open until Sept, by law, a reasonable amount of time to offer/supply 2009 points is 3 months. Hence, no 2009 points for UY's before May 2009.
I explained to her that my guide ASSURED me I would get 2009 points with my Feb UY; she said that was incorrect. He entered my UY as Feb 2010..UGH

Anyway, I am changing my UY from Feb to Dec for this contract (assuming I can get a Dec UY). The supervisor told me that it was not a good idea to have a UY within 4 months of our normal travel dates. We usually travel in May & Oct (this year Dec-so, depending on the quality of this trip, could be May/Dec). Stating that if we had to cancel our vacation plans for any reason, having a UY within a month or so would only allow that amount of time to use the booked/then returned points. Made sense to me as well.

I know I've heard over and over why you should keep the same UY, but I really don't want to lose out on 120 basically "free" points. If renting those (NOT going to btw) that is a value of over $1200!

So, I've got a call into my guide again to see if a) I can get a Dec UY and b) for him to explain why it would be worth $1200+ to keep the Feb UY I have.

This situation is very frustrating for a lot of us, but I am keeping my chin up and a positive attitude :love: I'll keep you posted....

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well, my new master GCV saga continues.....
I got my re-write docs which again, my guide ASSURED me I would be getting 2009 points with my Feb UY. Can you guess what I found out? YUP, no 2009 points. I spoke with a supervisor who very matter-a-factly (not rude at all) why I woudn't qualify for 2009 points. She indicated that since the resort was not open until Sept., there has to be a "reasonable" amount of time between the advertised opening and the actual opening to allow for 2009 points. I have no idea why, but this explanation made total sense to me right off the bat. Since GCV didn't open until Sept, by law, a reasonable amount of time to offer/supply 2009 points is 3 months. Hence, no 2009 points for UY's before May 2009.
I explained to her that my guide ASSURED me I would get 2009 points with my Feb UY; she said that was incorrect. He entered my UY as Feb 2010..UGH

Anyway, I am changing my UY from Feb to Dec for this contract (assuming I can get a Dec UY). The supervisor told me that it was not a good idea to have a UY within 4 months of our normal travel dates. We usually travel in May & Oct (this year Dec-so, depending on the quality of this trip, could be May/Dec). Stating that if we had to cancel our vacation plans for any reason, having a UY within a month or so would only allow that amount of time to use the booked/then returned points. Made sense to me as well.

I know I've heard over and over why you should keep the same UY, but I really don't want to lose out on 120 basically "free" points. If renting those (NOT going to btw) that is a value of over $1200!

So, I've got a call into my guide again to see if a) I can get a Dec UY and b) for him to explain why it would be worth $1200+ to keep the Feb UY I have.

This situation is very frustrating for a lot of us, but I am keeping my chin up and a positive attitude :love: I'll keep you posted....

That's too bad that your guide kept assuring you of the Feb 09 points. And I've heard the explanation about the early UY's not getting it due to the opening date - HOWEVER, I will reiterate again....BLT was originally scheduled for a Sept opening and every UY was given 09 points right from the beginning so using the Sept date doesn't fly with me. Originally GCV was a Nov date but it just continues to bug me that they so over estimated the opening and didn't give the early UY's the points.

Glad you're keeping a positive attitude! As I said b4 I have the 2 UY's but wanted GCV in my Apr. due to DL travel dates. I did elect to stay with that - my decision - but it will always be a thorn with me and has done wonders to curb adding on the additional points I had planned on.

[DebbieB]

I was seriously considering a 75 or 80 point VGC add-on until I heard that my April use year would not get 2009 points. I saw it posted when the original sales information came out, that only June or after would get 2009. I figured I could bank the 2009 points and it would give me a little "cushion" for a few years. Since I could no longer do that, I nixed it.

[DVCGeek]

So, I've got a call into my guide again to see if a) I can get a Dec UY and b) for him to explain why it would be worth $1200+ to keep the Feb UY I have.

This situation is very frustrating for a lot of us, but I am keeping my chin up and a positive attitude :love: I'll keep you posted....

I'm sorry for your situation but am very curious how attempting option A works out; I have previously read that to get a different use year you need to start a completely new membership and therefore have the standard 160 point minimum purchase (or whatever is then in effect for that resort), so I would think that may prevent your proposed 120 purchase.

Good luck!!!

[tjkraz]

Anyway, I am changing my UY from Feb to Dec for this contract (assuming I can get a Dec UY). The supervisor told me that it was not a good idea to have a UY within 4 months of our normal travel dates. We usually travel in May & Oct (this year Dec-so, depending on the quality of this trip, could be May/Dec). Stating that if we had to cancel our vacation plans for any reason, having a UY within a month or so would only allow that amount of time to use the booked/then returned points. Made sense to me as well.

I know I've heard over and over why you should keep the same UY, but I really don't want to lose out on 120 basically "free" points.

For whatever it's worth, I wouldn't choose a Use Year that was a mis-match for my vacation plans even if it got me some extra points. Over 50 years all you need to do is lose points once (due to inability to bank) and you're back on even footing.

Besides, when comparing a December and February Use Year, all you are really getting (from my POV) is a two month advantage.

I know it sounds more attractive to get the "2009 points", but in reality all I see happening is that you're getting your points 2 months earlier than someone with a Feb UY. If you stood to get both 2008 AND 2009 points, it might be a different situation. But the difference between getting the first set of points on 12/1/09 and 2/1/10 is very, very minimal, IMHO.

One other thing to note if you do go forward with the Dec Use Year. DVC will have to set it up as a separate Master Contract. Since you will own two masters, they will not allow you to seamlessly combine points between the two. Let's say you had 5 points left on your VGC contracts and wanted to use them with your other holdings to book a single stay at 7 months. The only way to accomplish that with two Master contracts is to TRANSFER the points from one contract to the other. And DVC only permits us 1 transfer per year.

I have 3 separate Home resorts and with straggler points from each of the contracts, I actually booked a single night using points from all 3 contracts. I was very easy to do because I have just one Master contract. If there were transfers involved, I'm not sure that I would have been able to do it. At the very least I would have been very wary of how the transfer may have handcuffed my future flexibility.

Just some food for thought...

I will reiterate again....BLT was originally scheduled for a Sept opening and every UY was given 09 points right from the beginning so using the Sept date doesn't fly with me. Originally GCV was a Nov date but it just continues to bug me that they so over estimated the opening and didn't give the early UY's the points.


BLT is different because the resort is much larger and will take longer to sell out. Effectively DVC is throwing in Developer's Points to facilitate all owners getting the 2009 points. It's not worth marketing it as such, but that's what's happening behind the scenes.

BLT has been for sale for a year now and is only about 50% gone. DVD's holdings over that period are more than sufficient to make early buyers whole on the 2009 points.

VGC is much smaller. They have only been in active sales since March. Assuming the resort sells out in a year or less, there will have been far fewer Developer's Points resulting from unsold holdings. As such, DVD probably doesn't have the excess inventory to give all buyers a full year's points. In the case of those Feb Use Years, the resort is open for barely 1/3 of their actual 2009 UY.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

BLT is different because the resort is much larger and will take longer to sell out. Effectively DVC is throwing in Developer's Points to facilitate all owners getting the 2009 points. It's not worth marketing it as such, but that's what's happening behind the scenes.

BLT has been for sale for a year now and is only about 50% gone. DVD's holdings over that period are more than sufficient to make early buyers whole on the 2009 points.

VGC is much smaller. They have only been in active sales since March. Assuming the resort sells out in a year or less, there will have been far fewer Developer's Points resulting from unsold holdings. As such, DVD probably doesn't have the excess inventory to give all buyers a full year's points. In the case of those Feb Use Years, the resort is open for barely 1/3 of their actual 2009 UY.

Tim,

I guess this is where I get confused in the explanation of developer points and inventory. BLT is larger and 50% of it is not sold out and yet all owners regardless of UY month get points in 2009. DVD didn't have to give developer points to all UY but they made a decision to subsidize the points for this year to all the BLT owners.

VGC is smaller and also not sold out and some owners don't get points and others do. And while you say that for FebUY the resort is barely open for a 1/3 of their actual UY, how does that reasoning work for April UY? With a April UY, the resort is open for over 6 months and yet they still don't get points! It doesn't seem to be consistent at all.

I still don't understand why June -July -August got 2009 points if Feb-Mar-April didn't. Just like Feb-Mar-APril, the resort wasn;t open when their UY began but yet they got points.

Are there really that many owners with Feb-Mar-April UY that it makes all the difference as to whether there is enough inventory? It feels like the purchases made by Feb-Mar-April UY owners are helping subsidize the 2009 points for the other owners who got points. That may not be accurate but that what it feels like to me.

It's too late now, of course, but all VGC owners could have been given some points if DVD thought it was worth the effort to do that. Could ALL the owners of VGC been given half the points or 3/4 of their points for 2009? I don't know the answer.

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

That's too bad that your guide kept assuring you of the Feb 09 points. And I've heard the explanation about the early UY's not getting it due to the opening date - HOWEVER, I will reiterate again....BLT was originally scheduled for a Sept opening and every UY was given 09 points right from the beginning so using the Sept date doesn't fly with me. Originally GCV was a Nov date but it just continues to bug me that they so over estimated the opening and didn't give the early UY's the points.

Glad you're keeping a positive attitude! As I said b4 I have the 2 UY's but wanted GCV in my Apr. due to DL travel dates. I did elect to stay with that - my decision - but it will always be a thorn with me and has done wonders to curb adding on the additional points I had planned on.

I feel the same way as you.

[tjkraz]

I guess this is where I get confused in the explanation of developer points and inventory. BLT is larger and 50% of it is not sold out and yet all owners regardless of UY month get points in 2009. DVD didn't have to give developer points to all UY but they made a decision to subsidize the points for this year to all the BLT owners.

It's difficult to illustrate since there isn't a single "year" but instead 8 separate (Use) years. Set aside the UY concept for a moment and see if this makes any sense.

BLT is only open for (approx) 1/2 of the year. However, over that first year the resort is only 1/2 sold. In this scenario they have enough excess supply (villas/points) to compensate for the fact that the resort was not open the entire year.

In the case of VGC, at the very least DVC did not anticipate having the excess capacity at the end of year one to compensate for the fact that it wouldn't be open the entire year. BLT has been something like 280 units built and 140 sold over Year One. For VGC they envisioned 50 units built and 50 units sold.

VGC is smaller and also not sold out and some owners don't get points and others do. And while you say that for FebUY the resort is barely open for a 1/3 of their actual UY, how does that reasoning work for April UY? With a April UY, the resort is open for over 6 months and yet they still don't get points! It doesn't seem to be consistent at all.

I still don't understand why June -July -August got 2009 points if Feb-Mar-April didn't. Just like Feb-Mar-APril, the resort wasn;t open when their UY began but yet they got points.

The only response I can give to that is they had to draw the line somewhere. These decisions were made before the first point was ever sold. Some DVD actuary looked at anticipated sales projections and construction schedules, and determined that they didn't have capacity to absorb all buyers receiving 2009 points. So they eliminated certain Use Years.

As I said in the other part of my post, I really don't see this as being a huge deal. The years (2009 vs. 2010) are what seem to grab the most attention. But the timeframes involved are often much less than 12 months. I have a February Use Year and will get my first points on 2/1/2010. As such, I'm not particularly envious of a Dec UY owner who will get his first points a whole two months before me.

Come 2059 that Dec UY owner will get an extra set of points compared to me, but he may only have two months to use them (since contracts end on 1/31/2060) and the present value of those points is a few pennies each.

Are there really that many owners with Feb-Mar-April UY that it makes all the difference as to whether there is enough inventory?

Since there are 8 UY, it should be approximately 3/8ths of owners in those three months.

It feels like the purchases made by Feb-Mar-April UY owners are helping subsidize the 2009 points for the other owners who got points. That may not be accurate but that what it feels like to me.

For better or worse, I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment.

It's too late now, of course, but all VGC owners could have been given some points if DVD thought it was worth the effort to do that. Could ALL the owners of VGC been given half the points or 3/4 of their points for 2009? I don't know the answer.

True, DVC could have added some true "Developer's Points" so that all owners got something for 2009. But the points would have had to come from another resort and couldn't have been used to book VGC at 11 months. Apparently they decided it just wasn't worth the cost and effort.

Again as a Feb owner, I didn't feel particularly slighted when the resort opening was scheduled for the last week of November. It seems unrealistic to think that I should get 2009 points when the resort would only be open for 2 months of my UY.

When the opening date was moved up it didn't change my opinion a whole lot. It's still just 4 months of my 12-month year and DVC did disclose everything properly at the time of my purchase.

That said, if I hear of a single owner with a Feb UY getting 2009 points, DVC will certainly be getting a call from me. ;)

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

It's difficult to illustrate since there isn't a single "year" but instead 8 separate (Use) years. Set aside the UY concept for a moment and see if this makes any sense.

BLT is only open for (approx) 1/2 of the year. However, over that first year the resort is only 1/2 sold. In this scenario they have enough excess supply (villas/points) to compensate for the fact that the resort was not open the entire year.

In the case of VGC, at the very least DVC did not anticipate having the excess capacity at the end of year one to compensate for the fact that it wouldn't be open the entire year. BLT has been something like 280 units built and 140 sold over Year One. For VGC they envisioned 50 units built and 50 units sold.

Thanks for your response. What you wrote makes sense. But when I speak to my guide or member satisfaction I'm told that there just isn't enough inventory at the hotel to give everyone points for 2009. But from what you are saying at VGC, they have have plenty of excess inventory and plenty of rooms available at the inn.They thought they'd sell them all but they didn't.


The only response I can give to that is they had to draw the line somewhere. These decisions were made before the first point was ever sold. Some DVD actuary looked at anticipated sales projections and construction schedules, and determined that they didn't have capacity to absorb all buyers receiving 2009 points. So they eliminated certain Use Years.

That's just poor management. Plenty of people at DVD were just thinking this was an automatic sell-out and they were very wrong.

As I said in the other part of my post, I really don't see this as being a huge deal. The years (2009 vs. 2010) are what seem to grab the most attention. But the timeframes involved are often much less than 12 months. I have a February Use Year and will get my first points on 2/1/2010. As such, I'm not particularly envious of a Dec UY owner who will get his first points a whole two months before me.

From December to Feb is not that big a deal. but... now that the resort is open, if things had been done the right way -let's say the way they handled sales at BLT -you'd already have points in '09 and two months after the Dec owners finally get their '09 points you'd be getting your second set of points.

Come 2059 that Dec UY owner will get an extra set of points compared to me, but he may only have two months to use them (since contracts end on 1/31/2060) and the present value of those points is a few pennies each. ;)

I'll be 96 years old in 2059. My daughter will be 60. I hope she can use the points.

Since there are 8 UY, it should be approximately 3/8ths of owners in those three months.

Right I understand that there should be an equal distribution of between months but right now in its partially sold stage we really don't know if there were more owners with UY in the Feb-Mar-April who had already bought points or if there are more VGC owners from other months.


True, DVC could have added some true "Developer's Points" so that all owners got something for 2009. But the points would have had to come from another resort and couldn't have been used to book VGC at 11 months. Apparently they decided it just wasn't worth the cost and effort.

At BLT it apparently was worth the cost and effort but not at VGC.

Again as a Feb owner, I didn't feel particularly slighted when the resort opening was scheduled for the last week of November. It seems unrealistic to think that I should get 2009 points when the resort would only be open for 2 months of my UY.

When the opening date was moved up it didn't change my opinion a whole lot. It's still just 4 months of my 12-month year and DVC did disclose everything properly at the time of my purchase.

I felt the same way with Mar UY when when it going to nearly be Decemeber when it was going to open. But when they moved to an earlier opening, I could have received points and decided whether or not I wanted to use them in 2009 or bank them into 2010. I am still within my banking deadlines so it would have worked out.

Legally, I'm sure they disclosed everything properly. But when my guide said the points start in March2010 and I said "well how could there be 2009 points, the place doesn't open until like December right?" I laugh. He laughs and then we move on to the next topic. Guide doesn't say, "oh there are plenty of 2009 points being sold but just not for your UY." I feel like he should have disclosed more to me. Our next topic, btw, was how the underground self parking was going to be free for DVC members. And we know how that has turned out. ;)[/QUOTE]


That said, if I hear of a single owner with a Feb UY getting 2009 points, DVC will certainly be getting a call from me. ;)

I'm srue they would get plenty of calls! Tim, Thanks again for sharing your DVC knowledge.