Superstar Limo closed for good and other Disneyland questions?

[Planogirl]

I read a post on another website where the poster said that they'd just returned from Disneyland. This person said that Space, Splash and Big Thunder Mountains and It's a Small World were all shut down during their visit and that Superstar Limo was apparently shut down for good. He commented that it seemed odd that an attraction would shut down so quickly and I agree!

To add fuel to the fire (on that thread at least :) ), another poster said that two weeks prior a total of seven major attractions were shut down in the Disneyland Resort during their visit. And a third poster complained about the ABC Soap Opera Restaurant in DCA only being open on a part-time basis right now.

Can anyone here tell me what the real situation is out there? Has anyone heard anything about why so much is closed? And why would this happen if attendance is so wonderful?

Just wondering and hoping that things improve a LOT before August.

[larworth]

I don't remember all the scheduling reasons for the concurrent DL rehabs. I think this all had been planned prior to 9/11 and is not attendance driven. Plan was to have most everything up and running before summer. The Splash log redo seems to be the major unplanned event. They just announced there would not be any summer discounts, so bookings must be fairly strong.

I'm not sure we've got a definitive reason for the Limo close. One scenario revolves around it using the same ride system as Roger Rabbit and safety issues. There has been some rumors about a make-over, but can't say I've heard much of late.

[mrsapalm]

Superstar Limo was slammed as a "why bother" from the very beginning... I've not read too many glowing reviews of the ride. I've ridden it a few times, when there was absolutely nothing else to do/waiting for my fastpass time/waiting for lines to die down... out of desperation to pass the time. It is a boring, overdone, jumbled mess of a ride. It is the only thing I have experienced at all Disney parks in the U.S. that actually disappointed me. Since my opinion is shared by many other much more important individuals, maybe Disney realized that they had made a mistake. I've heard rumors of the eventual Superstar shut-down, most likely to make way for a better attraction, so maybe those rumors are coming to fruition.

[Sarangel]

Due to factors beyond my control, I haven't been to DL for a couple of months. But...

Space was down for regular maintenance last time I was down there

Big Thunder was down in over the winter for the Fast Pass redo, but was open the last time I was down there (March).

Splash was supposed to go down for regular rehab, but then got stalled by the lawyers. They want to re-imagineer the logs to include some sort of restraint system due to the number of accidents (and even deaths) in the past couple of years. As a result, Splash (which was supposed to be back open for spring break) is and has been closed for quite some time.

Small World was closed in March to be returned to its normal self after the Holiday overlay.

As for the Limo ride. I've only ridden it once & I *like* DCA as a whole. It really is the stupidest ride Disney has ever let into full operation. It doesn't surprise me at all that it has finally closed. Don't worry, you aren't missing anything by it being down.

I'm sure that by August, most of DCA and as much of DL as possible will be up and running. You'll have a great time.

Sarangel

[Another Voice]

The Home Depot Days celebration at Disneyland was a combination of bad planning, budget cuts and chickens coming home to roost. The basis of the planning was the assumption that California Adventure was going to be such a smashing success that Disneyland could get away with having 3 ‘E-ticket’ class rides all down at the same time. The budget cuts made each individual rehab longer than normal by reducing staff and moving more work to day hours instead of after park closing. And the chickens showed up when it was discovered the terrible condition all the rides were in. Years of cancelled maintenance have finally taken their toll on the ride’s safety and there was simply no other choice. Even something as simple as the carousel has been affected. The existing structure had to be entirely scrapped because of wood rot. The only thing left standing is the central support pole. That attraction may return at Thanksgiving.

While most of Disneyland’s attractions will be running for summer, it seems that ‘SuperStar Limo’ will not. According to rumor, it’s been decided that the ride’s attendance doesn’t justify the labor and maintenance costs. And there’s absolutely no money for any kind of rehab. Everything in California Adventure is judged on money – every building has to pay its own way or it’s shut. In fact, the entire Hollywood District is on late opening. There is a rumor that once both ‘Millionaire’ and ‘Blast’ close, a section of the area will be walled off just to avoid the “there’s nothing open” feel. The place isn’t being run according to normal Disney practice so you can expect even more surprises.

The “no summer discounts” has nothing to do with strong bookings. While attendance at Disneyland is up somewhat over last year, attendance at California Adventure is now well off pace. Since last year’s discounts had no effect at all on attendance, The Company figures it might as well get as much money as it can from those that do show up. As a side benefit, if they can get a few on Wall Street to jump to the conclusion that no discounts mean stronger attendance, then all’s the better.

The rumor is that DCA will continue to shrink its operations instead of trying to attract more visitors. It’s hoped (but no longer expected) that the opening of ‘Tower of Terror’ in two years will reverse the attendance trend, but no one is thinking that far ahead right now.

[mrtoadslastride]

I thought some of the things going at WDW were bad, but it sounds like the problems at WDW don't hold a candle to the problems at Disneyland!:mad:

[raidermatt]

While I am not a COMPLETE DCA "hater", I can say that anyone who considers AK to be an incomplete park not worthy of the Disney name shouldn't even THINK of setting foot in DCA.

And since DL is 16 years older than MK, it follows that a lack of maintenance is going to have a bigger impact there.

[raidermatt]

The rumor is that DCA will continue to shrink its operations instead of trying to attract more visitors.

So does this mean they are abandoning their "resort" strategy? It would seem they must if they are essentially "giving up" on DCA.

Also, any word on how this is impacting the plans for the third gate?

[Peter Pirate]

Hell, if all of this speculation is true you'd have to wonder what the future is for DL itself.:confused: If they fail to make DL a destination resort, if costs for maintenace are too big to absorb, if profitability plummets perhaps the door's will soon be shutting altogether.
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[MelissathePooh]

I didn't dislike CA really - not by any means. There are some really great attractions there - well at least two (SOC and GRR). The Animation attraction is brilliant in CA. It just wasn't the best thought of idea in the first place - most people who go to DL/CA are from CA or nearby - unless they are complete californiacentric - not a big appeal.

Anyway - with that said - I think its fine, BUT Superstar Limo was the most unproductive and wasted 30 minutes of my life (line and ride) - valuable time that I will never get back and am only less intelligent for having been a guest! I can't even give it the ole "at least it was in air conditioning" thing. Of course this is my opinion - but it was brutal. I would be amazed if the person responsible for the original idea is still employed - I don't wish them any negatives mind you (although I would like my 30 minutes back) just that it is pretty embarrasing to the Disney Company that it got so far as to become a viable attraction.

Soarin is a great attraction as is Grizzly. Grizzly is everything Kali should have been - but sometimes you learn and things get better the second time around. Although the mega amount of money they spent on Hopper didn't make that much of a difference.

[mrtoadslastride]

They can't be seriously considering abandoning DCA can they? If so I can't imagine how the Board can justify keeping Eisner.

Assuming they don't abandon DCA, what needs to be done to fix it (short of tearing it out and replacing it with DisneySea)?

[Another Voice]

The moves Disney is making in Anaheim are done to keep the resort concept alive.

The best business moves for Disney would have been to either remove the admission charge from DCA and a separate ride ticket, or to allow unlimited park hopping with the purchase of a Disneyland ticket. The economics of DCA relied heavily on food and merchandise sales; those require bodies in the park. But people judge the ticket price based on the number and quality of the attractions. DCA doesn’t have the rides to justify a full-priced ticket. And a year of discounts have proven that DCA won’t even support a reduced-price ticket.

But removing the admission from DCA would instantly turn the place into just three more “lands” for Disneyland. The two-park resort would be dead, and that’s simply something the egos in Burbank will not allow. Far too many two & three day tickets have danced in the dreams of the executives for them ever to give up. They’re not giving up on California Adventure, but everyone is suddenly finding other projects they have to work one. The park’s become a great example of “the other guy’s problem” syndrome. It’s all very similar to the attitude that surrounded the opening of Euro Disney. But this time there is no Frank Wells to recognize how serious the situation can get.

There is no news about the third theme park, and there won’t be for the rest of this decade. The third “park” was supposed to be an exploition the resort concept. At its best, it could be a way of salvaging the idea but no one’s convinced of its economics anymore. And The Company certainly is not willing to “risk” anything on a high-end water park. The only way to get an idea to move forward right now is to describe it as “tried and true”. The possibility of the third gate will be kept around just so The Company can stall non-Disney projects like Pointe Anaheim or other hotels.


P.S. There were several very serious proposals to either re-theme the park or to overlay other elements over the existing attractions. They were all killed because of budget. They simply don't want to spend any money on the place.

[roymccoy]

Disney letting another company come in and foot the cost of a DCA overhaul and just make money on the licensing and park operation. (ala Disney Paris.) Or, with the company flagship Disneyland so close, would it never happen? I keep hearing that DCA needs to be overhauled but that there is no money in the budget. Something is going to have to be done about it. Giving the tickets away didn't work. DCA just doesn't work.


Roy

P.S. I think that this is as good a time as any to say to Disney "I told you so" about DCA. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that DCA was a bad plan that was underfunded due to greed. Look at the last few Disney projects and tell me what is the underlying theme:

Toon Town - cheap and cardboard
DCA - cheap and cardboard
Light Magic - cheap and dumb
Re-theming current Disney rides for holidays - cheap and cardboard

Looks like "cheap" is the recurring word (with "cardboard" a close second)....I think it's time to stop wasting money on the network (ABC) and start wasting some money on the parks...or it's ALL going' down the tubes.

[roymccoy]

hardcore man...hardcore.

[Testtrack321]

You have gone where no other man has scoop!
Boy, I need to go now....

[Peter Pirate]

Scoop, TT, roymc...didn't I just suggest that...first?:D :D :D Or am I on everybodys "ignore" list?
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[YoHo]

I saw it Mr. Pirate.
And to you and Scoop I'd just like to say that the Day Disneyland closes is the day Disney breath's its last. Think about it, Disneyland regularly had high attendence numbers. REgularly outdoes all the local coaster parks. It actually does better on a Park for Park basis then any single Disney World Park. if they shut it down then the entire game is up.

I will garuntee, mark my words, that the board and wall street will force a managment change before that happens.

[Peter Pirate]

Yoho! Where the heck have you been! Glad you're back, anyway (and glad you noticed the pecking order - big smile, folks).

I agree with the "end of Disney" comment, for if it ever got that dire most of the magic would probably be long gone anyhow & this would be the proverbial nail. I wish I knew or understoo DL a little better. It's hard for us WDW frequents' to understand things on that "other" coast.;) More enlightenment would be appreciated...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[hopemax]

Heck I wish you east coasters and mid-westerners could come out to DL!

Maybe it would help with the understanding of why some of us Car 3 people are Car 3 people and why we fear for Walt Disney World. Pressler arrived at Disneyland in 1995. The management decisions he implented have had 7 years to fester. And it's been in the last year where the maintence issues have REALLY started to hurt. It took 7 years though. I seriously wonder what WDW is going to be like in 2005 (when Pressler will have control of it for 7 years) but I would guess it would take a little longer since Al Weiss does have a little control too.

I've seen where people have tried to pooh-pooh what's going on at DL because the park is old. But take a look around your own hometown and consider the ages of things. There are tons of amusement rides that are 40, 60, 80, 100 years old in the various parks around the country. Look at the number of VW beetles that at 35 years old are still driving on the highways. If you take care of things they will last. On the same side I've seen a lot of new structures, cars, etc that are only 4 years old but because their owners don't do the maintence they are falling apart.

Anyway, if someone is wanting to come to California, may I suggest the NFFC convention, the week of DL's birthday. Membership in the NFFC is $24, the convention is 4 days of activities 3 meals for $227. Many Disney artists, imagineers and other contributors present seminars and several of them attend the seminars and functions themselves. Bob Gurr, Sam McKim, Tony Baxter, Bruce Gordon, David Mumford, Alice Davis, Harriet Burns, Richard & Robert Sherman, Bill Justice, Russie Taylor, Wayne Alwine and many, many, many others. If you don't know who they are you probably should learn.

[Another Voice]

Funny, but Mr. Scoop’s fantasy seems more real than Disney’s plan for the success of California Adventure – sell-out’s every day, a waiting list for tickets, extra Highway Patrol to control freeway, the Emmy awards in the theater, extra staff telling people they have to go to Disneyland instead. Yea, fantasy can be fun.

Then again in reality Disney did sell half its stake in Euro Disney to singer Michael Jackson’s friend the Saudi oil prince to keep from shutting that place down. In this world, what’s fantasy anymore?

Simply repeating “It’s Disney, it will succeed” over and over and over doesn’t solve real business issues. Self delusion is wonderful only for people not responsible for anything. With Euro Disney it was an executive with the smarts and the guts to to hammer out a fix when everyone was telling him the situation would fix itself. California Adventure is in the same situation right now. But there’s no intelligent, high intestinal fortitude executive to be found.

P.S. – Again, none of you Car #1 types seem to be the least bit interested in seeing California Adventure. Surely THAT must tell you something about the project's problems.

[MelissathePooh]

It does help to visit both parks in understanding (as much as the general public can) Disney. I have to admit that there are definitely things I prefer at DL - there is quite a bit more to do in a smaller area. I prefer DL Fantasyland, Space Mountain, and I loved the holiday makeovers. There are definitely things I prefer at WDW of course two - but each has its place. CA is similar to AK to me - some of the attractions are oustanding and wonderful, but there isn't enough to do for a whole day and the ticket prices should reflect that. Don't get me wrong - AK far exceeds CA in terms of theming , but there isn't enough to do for a whole day and I resent paying full price for it. I felt the same way at CA.

I can't imagine DL every actually closing, but I don't see CA recovering as well as Eurodisney did after its initial problems.

DL is great though - being so used to WDW it was kind of like being in bizarro Disney at first, but after a while it was the same feeling of being at home as being in MK in WDW.

[hopemax]

(and glad you noticed the pecking order - big smile, folks).

Scoop, TT, roymc...didn't I just suggest that...first? Or am I on everybodys "ignore" list?

Didn't see this before, and since we're just all having fun here... *I'm* the one on the ignore list. :)

I threw out the possibility of Disneyland shutting down back in March in this
thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173013&perpage=15&pagenumber=5) 2nd post on the page...

[Peter Pirate]

...Well... my memories shot. Sorry.:D
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[Planogirl]

Wow! I don't know whether to be sorry I'm going to Disneyland this year instead of many years ago or to be relieved to have the chance to see the place before it's too late. The talk about poor maintenance definitely worries me though. Is Disneyland SAFE? I don't know if anyone truly realizes how peculiar it feels to ask that question. If anyone would have told me 10 years ago that any of this would have been under discussion, I would have laughed out loud. Oh my, what would Walt think of all of this?

I may need to move to another car after we get back. :(

[larry_poppins]

The rumours of the Disneyland Resort's demise is GREATLY exaggerated!
Planogirl you will have a great trip!

Larry

[roymccoy]

you're going to have a great trip. I think what bothers me is if the penny-pinching hadn't gone on with DCA, you would've had a REALLY GREAT trip. Kind of what you expect at WDW. I personally don't ever see DL closing because the company would be taken over before it got to financial ruin. Microsoft, AOL/Time Warner, Sony, etc. would just LOVE to see Disney get into bad shape and then they could swoop in and take it over. No, Disneyland will always be there, but the sign could someday say "GatesLand....formeraly Disneyland."

Roy

[abitjaded]

Where is the out-of-state-DL visitor going? We used to go to DL on quick trips, airfare from Denver was cheap, you could get a good deal on a hotel, even the DL Hotel. Well, we mostly go to WDW now, it is as cheap to fly to Orlando (Delata) as it is to CA (United has us by the -----). The last time we went to DL the Disney travel gave us free airfare for the kids and a good hotel price, but an amazing number of rides were on rehab or closed due to CA construction and mismanagement, still had a good CHEAP time. It just does not make sense that those of us who live much closer to DL must pay MORE to see DL and CA when we can go to WDW and get more bang for the buck. In MHO CA blew it because they just put in MORE expensive hotels instead of doing an All Stars and trying to attract the Western part of the US for a more budget vacation. Why are All Stars booked way in advance and the mods and uppers available? If the Disney Corp would do the math....hmmmm admission per day for a family of four, airfare for four (hard to get under $1000 to John Wayne vs $400-600 to MCO) then add the difference between $200 a night or All Stars at off-season-$79, weeelllll, big surprise we, and plenty of other Coloradans we know, haven't been to Anaheim.

Carla

[ivanova]

A theory put forth on another board is to overhaul DCA into "Disney America" (the flopped Virginia idea) --- it could be done in phases without totally closing the park completely, the theming (America versus California) leaves wider opportunities for attractions, and the whole patriotism thing is at a new high after 9/11.

But, it boils down to the egos in the executive offices --- no one wants to admit DCA was a bad idea, or a good idea turned bad when cutbacks & budget concerns were allowed to take over.

I don't think DL alone is in danger --- attendance is thriving over there, whilst DCA is dying a slow agonizing death. But maintenance will be an issue, cutting back on maintenance may save money in the short term but cost more money overall (look at King Arthur's carousel at DL as a prime example).

The resort hotels are going to be toast --- who wants to spend $300/night for a standard hotel room???? At least at WDW there's a variety of resorts that meet the budget needs of just about everyone. At DL there are 3 resort hotels, and all 3 seem to be in the high-end price range. May as well stay off property if you want to keep it cheap. We live in So.Calif. but in December leading up to Xmas we typically get a hotel room for 2 nights so we can enjoy 3 days in the parks with out the 2-3 hour roundtrip daily drives. $300/night doesn't cut it ... we'll pay $50-$65 a night for a standard room or maybe $100-$125 for a suite with full kitchen.

As for DTD, I've heard rumor that the tenants are pressing for refunds on their high lease rates because Disney had originally justified the high rates because of the foot traffic these folks would supposedly experience in their shops & restaurants. Said foot traffic hasn't materialized, therefore the tenants want back some of the money they've shelled out in rent.

[roymccoy]

you make some good points. It does seem more plausable that DCA would be turned into something else instead of being "farmed out" to another company to run in it's present form. I don't think you'd find anyone to take it, in it's present form. DTD seems to be usually pretty full with people walking around but maybe they're not buying much. Also, it's not unusual for tenants to want a refund or a reduction in rent at ANY mall or strip. In my commercial property management days, it was part of my job to explain to tenants that they signed a lease and the owner needed their rent to make his bills for the center. They would use ANY reason to whine. Economy, vacancies, mall across the street, energy prices, politics, etc. I even had one lady who owned a nail salon tell me that the building wasn't "feng shau" (sp?) I would say that DTD is living up to Disney's projections or at least a lot closer than DCA's projections!

Roy

[ivanova]

I ventured into DCA for the first time less than a month ago ... not overly impressed ... it was "okay." Being an AP holder I figure we'll pop in occasionally for a few hours here & there (do Soarin', catch Millionaire while it's still there, etc.) but the bulk of our time will probably be in DL.

If they changed DCA to DA (Disney's America) I'd be all over it in a heartbeat ... but not holding my breath at this point.

[Bstanley]

Great Zot!

Close down the most popular Theme Park in the US?!
The one with almost 20 Million people within 50 miles?!
An area with the 12th largest GNP in the world (if it was a country)?!

Surely the company would step back, take a deep breath and make whatever changes were needed, no matter how draconian they might be!

There are examples out there now that show how to make a park that would be popular. It might take some cash to do it, but it would be a lot cheaper than losing it entirely.

[d-r]

When Melissa and I went to Disneyland, I remember after a couple of days there I told her that they ought to take the ticket lines out for disneyland and dca, and put in two new ones perpindicular to those, one on the side where the busses from the off-property hotels come in, one on the dtd side where the disney hotels and monorail come in, and just have one super large mega park.

Honestly, I don't think that it would take away from the "resort destination" idea to call it one huge collossal park than to call it two separate ones - "Disneyland, the park so big you could never see it in just one day!"

Probably a bad idea-
DR

[mrtoadslastride]

Originally posted by d-r
"Disneyland, the park so big you could never see it in just one day!"

Probably a bad idea-
DR

The powers that be won't go with this idea because you only sell 1 ticket to the mega park not 2 if they keep the parks seperate. Maybe if they doubled the price of the tickets to the mega-park.....

[Bob O]

I also saw the shows on the Travel Channel, and disney could compete and have a great thrill ride with a story that would be great but they are too cheap to do it!!! The rides they showed at Knott's/SFMM look to be great rides and i cant wait to ride them this dec., but disney could compete but they choose not to. They are more content to spread cloned rides around than create new rides/attractions! because its cheaper to do so! Its cheaper to put clones of Its a Bug life and TOT than trying to create a new attraction like Indy Jones for instance.

[YoHo]

Scoop, the point is that Disneyland has and probably even with these missteps continues to bury Magic Mountain and Knott's. this isn't orlando. Universal hollywood is good for the studio tour and that's about it. Disneyland rules LA with a Rusty Iron fist and no amount of Thrill rides seems to have affected that. If the situation changes it won't be due to the type of rides, but the quality of the park.