Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[erionm]

Found this posted on the member website:
Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

To help address a growing Member interest in weekend stays at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, Disney Vacation Club has adjusted 2010 Vacation Points charts, reducing Vacation Point requirements for Friday and Saturday nights.

In addition to better reflecting the changes in Members' vacationing patterns, the adjusted charts make accommodations more affordable during many popular Walt Disney World® events, such as Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party and ESPN The Weekend.

To make this change possible, Vacation Point requirements for some instances of Sunday-Thursday stays are now higher. However, a full week's stay will essentially cost the same amount of Vacation Points as before.

To view the adjusted Vacation Points charts, click on the "View Vacation Points Charts" link in the "Plan My Vacation" section of this Web site (located on the right side of the page).

[jekjones1558]

Thanks for posting this. Off to the member website to check it out.

[mybabesuz]

:scratchin not sure if this is good or bad...:confused3

Well the trip I just booked for Dec2009 would be 28 points less...
But, the trip I was planning for Dec 2010 will be 2 points more...
It will be 215 points for a 2BR AKV Standard instead of 213
and I will only have 214 points... 1 point short ! Thanks DVC !

Thanks for posting...:flower3:

[jekjones1558]

I am surprised that the changes are as extensive as they are. The adjustments are also larger than I would have expected. This doesn't affect us because we generally have stayed for 7 days. But I can see that it might encourage some folks who have stayed non-DVC or cash on weekends to just use points for the sake of simplicity.

[BillPA]

Just one more reason to sell. The new management team needs to be replace.

Good bye folks.

[erionm]

:scratchin not sure if this is good or bad...:confused3

Thanks for posting...:flower3:
It's better for us. Currently we stay mostly Thurday to Sunday. For our September stay at AKV in a 1BR Savanna View, the number of points needed dropped from 113 to 102.

[Mattsmommy]

I don't like the change. We added on at HHI to stay a week every summer in a one bedroom s-thur:mad:

[erionm]

.

[PrincessDuck]

I don't like the change.

They have to adjust these points if they are lowering the weekend points. It all has to equal out in the end for the total chart. So, if they take some away they have to pop back in somewhere.

ETA..you changed your post while I was posting..

[brandip22]

Personally, I like the change. But, we like to go starting on a Friday for a week but then also the next fri and sat to get extra days in. It'll save me about 20 points, which is nice. Might can fit in another day with that. But, we don't do the cash for weekends thing or just Sun-Thursday as we are not able to go down more than once a year. For us, it'll make it a little cheaper on points.

[Mattsmommy]

ETA..you changed your post while I was posting..

Sorry... I read the opening post again and did not want to repeat the same info.

[dd08]

Don't really see a big change at AKV.

Was going to stay for 6 nights in a 2 bedroom in '10. Originally was going to cost 240 points, now going to be 238, not a big difference that i see.

What am I missing that has *some* people nervous and upset?:confused3

[Deb & Bill]

How much longer until we see this message:

In order to make vacation reservations easier for our members, DVC will be changing to 7 day vacations only. Booking will begin on Saturday and extend to the following Saturday. On the four day of your stay, you will have your towels refreshed, trash emptied and toiletries renewed. We feel this will make planning and scheduling your vacations much easier. These changes will allow housekeeping to schedule all full cleaning on Saturdays once guests have checked out and prior to newly scheduled arrivals. In addition to making this easier for our members, we expect to have some cost savings from the changes in housekeeping.

To assist with scheduling your vacations, MS will be open longer hours on Thursday and Fridays. However, they will be closed Monday through Wednesday.

[aurorafan]

I'm not sure how this will play out for us. Right now we're Sat.-Fri. kind of people, but as my oldest DS gets into Middle School I'm looking at trying to finagle long weekends (generally Thurs.-Mon.), so it might help out there a bit :).

It will be interesting to see how it plays out and what people's reactions are. Between that and the new booking policy it seems like a lot of changes in the last year...

Thanks for posting this as I'm just starting tonight to plan our 2010 vacation!

[bookwormde]

I cannot say I am surprised, especially since BLT had a different weekday/weekend ratio. As a weekday only person it will cost me more points for the same stay, guess I will have to go to the member site and see how bad it is.

bookwormde

[Maelstrom_]

What's with the 2010 point charts? All of the Sun-Thu points per night have been increased! They lowered the Fri-Sat points per night, but to make up for it, they increased Sun-Thu.

I don't think that's fair! When I bought my membership I bought an amount of points that would give me a certain number of Sun-Thu vacations every year! Now I don't have enough. My guide swore to me that the points per night rates were locked. I am really upset over this.

[tubtruck]

One word "HIDEOUS"

[bobbiwoz]

Wow, really? Well, the total number of points for a resort can't change. Is what you're saying across the board? All resorts? We take lots of weekend trips because DH has "lost" some vacation days..cutbacks. I could be happy with this.

Bobbi:)

[Leanne1977]

This is not great for us. Coming from the UK we tend to have holidays of 3 weeks or more. So we simply don't have enough points at the moment to stay on property at the weekends. So this is going to cost us more points for our Sun-Fri stays. But it certainly won't force me to stay onsite for the weekends, its still far too costly points wise for us.:sad2:

[bethy]

Since we have school to contend with we always stay 2 weekend nights. Also we do not like to switch rooms or resort while on vacation. So for us this is probably good news.

[bobbiwoz]

By 2010, DH may be retired, and so, we're a bit too late to enjoy the benefits. For now, DH has fewer vacation days, so we go long weekends. I'm going to the web site now.

Bobbi:)

PS. It gives us a break for Marathon weekend 2010! But it does a job on our VB trip in June, hopefully in a beach cottage. Good and bad, about what we all can expect, I guess.

[JCW]

From the member website:

"Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

To help address a growing Member interest in weekend stays at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, Disney Vacation Club has adjusted 2010 Vacation Points charts, reducing Vacation Point requirements for Friday and Saturday nights.

In addition to better reflecting the changes in Members' vacationing patterns, the adjusted charts make accommodations more affordable during many popular Walt Disney World® events, such as Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party and ESPN The Weekend.

To make this change possible, Vacation Point requirements for some instances of Sunday-Thursday stays are now higher. However, a full week's stay will essentially cost the same amount of Vacation Points as before."

For us, this doesn't really make a difference as our stays are usually a full week or longer anyway.

[Chuck S]

I'm happily surprised to see that it really has little impact on our normal vacation habits. Our currently booked June 2009 studio reservation of 8 nights will be 6 points less in 2010, and our recently completed December 2008 1 bedroom stay of 10 nights (we're not going until January 2010), will be 7 points more. Overall a one point increase per year. :)

More work for Bill and his vacation planner program, though.

[twebber55]

can you provide a link because i cant find it anywhere..would be curious as well because this could really hurt me

[dis-happy]

Wow, I am not a happy camper. We always made good use of the Sun-Thurs. points, do 3-4 trips a year, and stretch those points out.

Our annual trip at BCV in May/early June goes up 4 pts. per night for a 1 b/r or 5 pts. per night for a 2 b/r.....that translates to 25 more points for the 2 b/r! 170 pts. vs. 195 pts. With a 210 pt. contract at BCV that makes a big dent.

Makes me glad we didn't add on at BLT. DVC is starting to lose some if its luster imo.

Now off to see how messed up my standard view rooms at BWV has become....

[erionm]

can you provide a link because i cant find it anywhere..would be curious as well because this could really hurt me
The 2009 and 2010 Point Charts are posted on the member website.

[DebbieB]

I suspect that they are having difficultly with open rooms on weekends.

I usually book Saturday to Friday. For my AKV 6/14-20 stay this year in a savannah view studio it was 105 points, next year 110. BWV 12/5-11 in a 1 bedroom bw view is 155, next year 158.

[Cindaddy]

What's with the 2010 point charts? All of the Sun-Thu points per night have been increased! They lowered the Fri-Sat points per night, but to make up for it, they increased Sun-Thu.

I don't think that's fair! When I bought my membership I bought an amount of points that would give me a certain number of Sun-Thu vacations every year! Now I don't have enough. My guide swore to me that the points per night rates were locked. I am really upset over this.

Agreed. This may keep me from signing that contract.

[JCW]

can you provide a link because i cant find it anywhere..would be curious as well because this could really hurt me

From the member site home page, click on News(at the top), then What's New. Scroll down the page and it's one of the links of the newest announcements (I think it's the third or fourth news item in the list).

[Lynne M]

What's with the 2010 point charts? All of the Sun-Thu points per night have been increased! They lowered the Fri-Sat points per night, but to make up for it, they increased Sun-Thu.

I don't think that's fair! When I bought my membership I bought an amount of points that would give me a certain number of Sun-Thu vacations every year! Now I don't have enough. My guide swore to me that the points per night rates were locked. I am really upset over this.

It may or may not seem fair, but it's allowable under the contract. Your guide may have not have explained it clearly, but the TOTAL NUMBER of points for a resort is fixed. Per-night points are not. In other words, if they decrease the point requirements for certain days, dates, villa types, etc, they must increase point requirements for some other day, date, or villa type, so that it balances out - so that the total number of points remains the same.

But, regardless of what your guide said, it's explained in the contract.

For some people, this will be a bad thing. For others (like me), it's great. It means I can do more Fri-Sat stays, which means I can use fewer vacation days. Sorry that it didn't work out well for you.

[AUTigerFan]

I am disappointed. We are Sun-Thurs people, and only have 150 points. I know that this was a possibility and allowable, but I am still disappointed. I'm sure we will adjust our habits, like not inviting family to go with us and making due with one bedrooms and studios.


I do look forward to some of the more dramatic posters take on this.:)

[Chuck S]

It may or may not seem fair, but it's allowable under the contract. Your guide may have not have explained it clearly, but the TOTAL NUMBER of points for a resort is fixed. Per-night points are not. In other words, if they decrease the point requirements for certain days, dates, villa types, etc, they must increase point requirements for some other day, date, or villa type, so that it balances out - so that the total number of points remains the same.

But, regardless of what your guide said, it's explained in the contract.

For some people, this will be a bad thing. For others (like me), it's great. It means I can do more Fri-Sat stays, which means I can use fewer vacation days. Sorry that it didn't work out well for you.

To expand on this...somewhere in your Public Offering/Contract info there should be a maximum possible adjustment showing the points per night if the charts were re-allocated so all seasons/nights were equal.

[twebber55]

to put it nicely the sunday through thursday crowd (ie me) just got thrown under the bus...i realize its legal just doesnt seem fair

[bobbiwoz]

..
More work for Bill and his vacation planner program, though.


That was one of the first things that I thought of, more work for Caskbill!!

[jlewisinsyr]

I don't think its a big deal in the big scheme of things, but I think the total weekly points is a problem.

We bought the number of points to stay one week in a one bedroom savannah view. Now, looking at the charts, the point requirement is one higher.

Although I realize they can do this, the fact that they say a "To make this change possible, Vacation Point requirements for some instances of Sunday-Thursday stays are now higher. However, a full week's stay will essentially cost the same amount of Vacation Points as before" is incorrect, because one point is one point. You cannot add on one point to adjust for this.

Also, this change effects AKV Kidani, which anyone who purchased, hasn't even stayed at yet, and already are seeing a fairly major adjustment.

When Disney does these things, they need to consider the impact of those decision in terms of people needing more points. One point is one point, there isn't an option to buy one point.

I plan to call my guide and member services about this to see what can be done. I also find it somewhat interesting that this is after they just raised the point requirements at some resorts in addition to the price increases.

[square pond]

I have to say..I think it stinks too! The only way it stays the same is if you go for seven days. If you only go for a weekend it is good but what if you want to go 8,9 or 10 days? You now have to use more points for those extra nights!! :confused3

[twebber55]

its a big problem for people who stay sunday - thursday my stay at HHI will o up 25 points which i dont have...this could lead me to sell my points which i dont want to do

[dtheboys]

I trusted my guide ( he told me points will never change), and I did not read the contract word for word....
I personally did not think the points per night could ever change...
Oh well, live and learn, but not happy w/ DVC playing w/ the points system.

[dizzneebabe]

Wow--now I'm really upset! :sad2: I figured the overall weekly points would stay the same, just adjusting for weekday vs. weekend. We JUST added on 25 AKV pts so that we could go every DEC (1st week) in a 1bdrm Sav. view. It WAS 205 pts., which is what we have. Now in 2010 the same week will be 206!!!!!! One pt short????

Perfect...a magic stay in BLT 1bdrm LV is now 1 pt LESS than what we have. So now to travel when we want, I will no longer be able to make a one week stay at AKV...I'll only be able to reserve 6 days and then WAIT 4 months for my ONE EXTRA BLT point to become available so I can HOPEFULLY reserve day 7!!!!!

Sorry for the caps, but I'm ready to throw up now.

[DebbieB]

I have to say..I think it stinks too! The only way it stays the same is if you go for seven days. If you only go for a weekend it is good but what if you want to go 8,9 or 10 days? You now have to use more points for those extra nights!! :confused3

Some of the weekly totals have changed also. I'm just glad they did not reallocate the seasons, I like early December.

[december14disney]

Im kinda upset too. We could get SOOOO much out of our 160 points doing Sun-Thurs stays. Since the weekly point values are the same---this doesnt help me at all. Thank god we didnt buy a small 60 point contract thinking we could do Sun-Thurs stay almost any time of year. Id be SO mad if that happened. ......

[bookwormde]

Wow this is a lot more than just a weekday /weekend realignment, they have realigned the rooms sizes increasing the 2br and reducing the 1br and realigned the seasons raising the dream season and lowering adventure and choice.

Of course most of my reservations are 2br weekday dream season. Looks like about 40 more points per vacation.

For BW owners it looks like a part of the standard discount is gone for weekdays.
For some grand villas the weekday/weekend ratio actually went the other way.

Looks like some standard/savanna allocation shifts also

Anyone remember where the list of how many of each type of unit is in each resort.
I have an spread sheet I did for BLT which calculates the total points for each resort, I would like to check and make sure none of the total points in any resort changed.

bookwormde

[dianeschlicht]

Poor Bill! I just had a nice meet with him, his wife and brother, and we were discussing how each change means a LOT of extra work for him.

I guess I don't see this as a huge difference, since it will mostly mean that folks will "reallocate" how they vaction to catch up to new point charts. If weekends are now less and some week night are now more, folks will start arriving and departing differently to take advantage. Well, except for those of us who book by the week and look at it by the week....Things wont change as much for us. I'm speaking blindly though, since we are currently at Disney, and I haven't been able to compare the point charts from '09-'10.

[Cindaddy]

Since I haven't joined, yet, would someone be able to post the 2010 points for BLT (adventure season, MK view for studio and 1 bedroom)? I can't find them anywhere and, obviously, don't have member access yet. It would be greatly appreciated. My potential contract was based on exact point counts that, I'm sure, are now incorrect. Thanks.

[goofygal1975]

I was also wondering if someone could post the new points. We just bought at BLT today and I figured out points off a chart I found online. Now I'm wondering if we bought enough for the trips we will be taking. (we haven't signed the contract yet)

Thanks!

[tubtruck]

Caskbill will have to get busy :rotfl2:


Personally not happy at all.

[JimMIA]

All of this stuff they've been doing the last 2-3 years has zero to do with improving the membership experience. It is 100% about maximizing DVC profits and Jim Lewis' bonus.

In the long term, I think all these changes are a bad idea, because they make DVC a very unstable and unreliable vacation choice. These decisions are a classic example of something that is good for an organization short-term, but bad in a strategic sense.

I would not recommend that anyone buy DVC today, because who knows what it will be tomorrow.

[jlewisinsyr]

Just sent the following to DVC:

Dear Sir/Madam,

This is in regards to the 2010 points adjustments made.

Upon reading a non Disney owned web forum, I was alarmed that there was a note that the 2010 point charts were released and that there were major changes at all of the resorts.

I was alarmed for two reasons, one I did not receive notification of this change and two, this change has a significant impact on my travels.

When I purchased my ownership interest in Animal Kingdom Villas (Kidani) in September, we walked through the purchase needs to ensure we were able to stay in Value Season (our preferred travel season) for one week in a Savannah view room. Our guide walked us through the point requirements, advising that we would need 205 points to satisfy our requirement.

Although our home resort was not yet finished, we decided to purchase our interest and closed in the end of September. As we start 2009, our first allotment of points were credited to our account but could not use prior to the opening of Kidani Village.

Based on my review of the announcement made on the website, DVC has stated “To make this change possible, Vacation Point requirements for some instances of Sunday-Thursday stays are now higher. However, a full week's stay will essentially cost the same amount of Vacation Points as before.” This statement is misleading, because it is not true in our case. For one week, in value season, in a one bedroom Savannah view room, our point requirements are now 206. Although on paper it doesn’t seem significant, it represents a huge problem in the fact that we are now one point short of our required number of points to stay one week every year.

I am writing this ahead of having the opportunity to speak to member services, my guide and an official letter to DVC, so please understand this is a large disappointment. Disney has recently made some major changes to the DVC offering, including changing their contract from II to RCI, increasing the minimum add-on point requirements and increasing the prices of AKV.

I understand the need to react to member interests, but in this case, it appears ALL member interests were not taken into consideration, and the impact of those utilizing full week stays and purchasing the number of points to achieve this.

I am hoping an fair and equitable option to help members adjust to this situation is being considering, including offering options to add smaller than the normal minimum number of points to adjust to this change.

As a new member, I have been excited and both disheartened by the recent changes, often seeing that although DVC states it is Disney’s “Best kept secret” that this best kept secret is not always the good secret everyone wants to hear, rather it is the one everyone is afraid to find out about.

Sincerely,

Joseph Lewis
Animal Kingdom Kidani Member


I recommend if you are unhappy with the change, communicate with DVC, your guide, etc. This doesn't mean yell at your guide, they didn't make the change, but they are somewhat the ears of DVC, and if they are getting complaints, DVC will hear about them.

[disneynutz]

"To help address a growing Member interest in weekend stays at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, Disney Vacation Club has adjusted 2010 Vacation Points charts, reducing Vacation Point requirements for Friday and Saturday nights".

Hog wash. Why not be honest, do they think that we are idiots?

What they really should have said:

We want more members to stay on Fridays and Saturdays so we are lowering the required points.

[december14disney]

If you look in 2010 vs 2009 AKV all the savannah view weekly points went up by at least 2. I know its only 2 points but still. What if this happens like every other year. Im in this thing for like 50 years right? Pretty soon my desired savannah view will be out of reach! I know value rooms went down---because no one wants to stay in value! I may be over-reacting but I am calling my guide tomorrow. If they raised savannah view in one season they should have at least brought it down in the other seasons or something comparable....

Also...say I wanted to do a Sun-the FOLLOWING Wednesday...like a 10 day trip. While people used to do this to take advantage of lower weekday points...this really impacts our plans for that...

[tvwalsh]

I bought 30 points at BLT before the small add ons were eliminated, in order to stay two nights every other January in a one bedroom lake view villa. I was going to buy exactly 27 points (the price on the 2009 chart), but I have been a member long enough, (since'92) to have seen point rearrangements before, and was afraid this might happen. I bought the thirty points just in case.

I feel very sorry for people who will find themselves a point or two short because of these changes.

Most of my points are at OKW and the increase from 22 to 26 point for a two bedroom villa in January, will make my five day stays 20 points more expensive. On the other hand, I will no longer be as afraid to schedule or extend my stays to include weekend days.

You win some. You lose some.;)

[twebber55]

thanks Joseph..again just because its legal doesnt make it right...definitely disappointed in DVC...should i call my guide?

[dizzneebabe]

I guess I don't see this as a huge difference, since it will mostly mean that folks will "reallocate" how they vaction to catch up to new point charts. If weekends are now less and some week night are now more, folks will start arriving and departing differently to take advantage. Well, except for those of us who book by the week and look at it by the week.....
That's what I figured--until I looked. :crazy2: It throws off everything for us by 1 pt on each vacation. We're short one point for Adventure season and we have an extra point for BLT in magic.
It will require us to call MS at least 2x for each vacation during those times, and maybe having to be waitlisted all because we based our purchase price on a "weekly" number of points. We figured weekly, we were safe.

[december14disney]

is that letter true about 205 now being 206 points. Id be so mad. Id make my guide let me spend the 104 dollars or whatever and get that extra point so my year vacations werent messed up.

[bookwormde]

Yea I am beginning to feel like I bought into Wyndham Fairfield not DVC. Makes me wonder what is coming, can’t imagine this is going to help resale prices, Uncertainty always hurts a market

bookwormde

[eyeheartgoofy]

Wow! This really stinks! I just booked my AKV stay for 2009 and STRATEGICALLY left 96 points at VWL for the 2010 UY. I was planning to stay Sun-Fri at VWL during Spring Break in 2010 for a total of 95 points ... the same stay is now going to cost 105 points and I can't do it! Of course, the total number of points for the entire week has gone down 5 points for a studio, but it doesn't help us much with our 100 point contract.

So much for Disney's sales presentation where they help you decide how many points to purchase by looking at the points chart.:sad2:

Boo Hiss, Disney!!!

At the very least, I feel like they could have warned us before members were able to start borrowing from 2010 use years. I borrowed the points 4 days ago ... I could have easily shortened our stay to 6 nights or picked a different room type for the first night if I knew I wouldn't be left with enough 2010 points to cover our planned stay. When you have very few points, you plan each one CAREFULLY!

[dtheboys]

I second that thought!!!

[BeccaG]

I must be blind. . I cant find it on the member site, under news or the point chart. . .

[beacher]

Did anyone save the pdf and can post the new point charts? Must be heavy traffic trying to view them and the site keeps looping back to the log-in screen.

Thanks in advance,

[bobbiwoz]

I must be blind. . I cant find it on the member site, under news or the point chart. . .

Go to the point chart page, and you see that there are charts for 2009 and 2010. Then compare.
Bobbi:)

[dis-happy]

All of this stuff they've been doing the last 2-3 years has zero to do with improving the membership experience. It is 100% about maximizing DVC profits and Jim Lewis' bonus.

In the long term, I think all these changes are a bad idea, because they make DVC a very unstable and unreliable vacation choice. These decisions are a classic example of something that is good for an organization short-term, but bad in a strategic sense.

I would not recommend that anyone buy DVC today, because who knows what it will be tomorrow.


I'd say less about profits and more with cutting expenses. I'm sure that this will spread out housekeeping costs (and probably reduce some of the complaints about some people not getting into their rooms by 4 pm, thereby making the member satisfaction people look better). Probably less room turnover too (those who might check out just for the weekend then check back in), which also cuts costs.

Not to say I like it or anything......

[bobbiwoz]

I was also wondering if someone could post the new points. We just bought at BLT today and I figured out points off a chart I found online. Now I'm wondering if we bought enough for the trips we will be taking. (we haven't signed the contract yet)

Thanks!


Post #5 gives you links.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=29820323#post29820323

[toocherie]

I got to the page showing the 2009 and 2010 lists, but every time I click on a link to see an actual points chart it takes me to an advertisement page for DVC. (And yes, I had logged in.)

Edited to add: It only does this on the 2010 links--the 2009 links work just fine.

[twinklebug]

If you look in 2010 vs 2009 AKV all the savannah view weekly points went up by at least 2. I know its only 2 points but still. What if this happens like every other year. Im in this thing for like 50 years right? Pretty soon my desired savannah view will be out of reach! I know value rooms went down---because no one wants to stay in value! I may be over-reacting but I am calling my guide tomorrow. If they raised savannah view in one season they should have at least brought it down in the other seasons or something comparable....


Point allocation is NOT inflation when one day goes up by a point, another must drop down. There are a fixed number of points sold. DVC doesn't create more out of thin air. Please read Lynne M's quote:

It may or may not seem fair, but it's allowable under the contract. Your guide may have not have explained it clearly, but the TOTAL NUMBER of points for a resort is fixed. Per-night points are not. In other words, if they decrease the point requirements for certain days, dates, villa types, etc, they must increase point requirements for some other day, date, or villa type, so that it balances out - so that the total number of points remains the same.

But, regardless of what your guide said, it's explained in the contract.

For some people, this will be a bad thing. For others (like me), it's great. It means I can do more Fri-Sat stays, which means I can use fewer vacation days. Sorry that it didn't work out well for you.

... and I agree that it's a good thing. I want to stay over the weekend. I have kids in school and it's the only way it makes sense for us.

ETA: My guide clearly explained the shifting of points to me - I'm sure they've all been trained on how to present it, but some folk are better than others at explaining. I will agree that when determining how many points to initially buy DVC has told their reps to have us pick the vacation we'd like to have every year and buy enough points to civer that... and they do push full weeks. This approach may make those who buy just enough to cover S-Th stays feel like they've been duped. Not so. It's just when figuring your points required for your stay, you forgot to take into account that they may shift up or down.

[jlewisinsyr]

The point charts and link just came down!

[lovemyblt]

The points charts are all messed up over there, you can't pull them up.
I really think this stinks..... I book Sunday through the follwowing Wednesday as well and this will throw a wrench in the works. Not to mention my husband is gonna have a fit- they lead you to believe the points don't change and they do. Wow - disappointed

[Chuck S]

As tvwalsh mentioned, this is not the first re-allocation of points to happen. Although previous re-allocations did not affect every resort. In 1996 at OKW, studio points in Adventure season went from 69 to 80 points per week, which really had an effect on us at the time.

Also, points were re-allocated at BWV (before very many points were sold) to create the multiple booking categories we see there today.

I know it comes as a shock to newer members, but we "oldsters" have been through this, and know it is possible at anytime. It is part of your contract. If your guide mis-informed you that points can never change, you need to speak with that guide. Even in 1992, when we purchased, our guide informed us of this possibility...and there was only one DVC resort at the time. The Disney Vacation Club Resort, since renamed OKW. It is still "The Disney Vacation Club Resort" in legal documents.

There is really never any pre-announcement of point re-allocations, they "just happen"

[starbox]

Because we live close enough to make three-night weekend trips attractive - this could have potentially been an okay switch - IF they had equalized points across the 7 nights. Weekends are still almost double weekdays - which does not make them any more attractive.

Why DVC would take away the low Sun-Thurs stays and negate the choice for members to use points "economically" - especially during tough economic times - makes no sense.

Lets see - CRO guests get buy 4 get three nights free, a 200 gift card, free dining - and DVC members get their only "bargain" option erased. Yuck.

This will end up resulting in less nights per trip for us - as we always did 12 nights in a row - taking advantage of only paying one weekend. Makes buying the AP and adding extra trips less attractive as well.

[Cindaddy]

Post #5 gives you links.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=29820323#post29820323

She (and I) don't have access to the member site since we haven't signed our contracts, yet. Those links don't work for us.

[december14disney]

Point allocation is NOT inflation when one day goes up by a point, another must drop down. There are a fixed number of points sold. DVC doesn't create more out of thin air. Please read Lynne M's quote:



... and I agree that it's a good thing. I want to stay over the weekend. I have kids in school and it's the only way it makes sense for us.

I know. I said the values went down. But no one wants to stay in a value they want to stay Savanna view! Im just saying. This doesnt help the following people: those we stay one week, because the point values are the same for the week total (and in some cases went up for the popular views), those who stay weekdays, and those who do 10 day or so vacations because the weekdays went up. This only helps those who do like Thurs-Sun.

[Batistuta]

None of the links on the DVC site work anymore. Not to the news story or the 2010 points charts. Hmmmmm.

[icsinc]

My Product Understanding Checklist given to me at purchase closing reads: "The total number of Vacation Points required to use all Vacation Homes during each calender year through January 31, 2042 can never increase. The can never increase is even in bold print. The first resort/room type I checked violates this with the reallocation. For example, 2009 OKW 2 BR total weekly pts for the year are 1414. 2010 OKW 2 BR total weekly pts for the year are 1415. I know its only 1 pt and f I am wrong please correct me but if not what's next?

[Starr W.]

None of the links on the DVC site work anymore. Not to the news story or the 2010 points charts. Hmmmmm.

The point charts quit working around 8pm ish. DH found it and it was the first thing out of his mouth when I got home from the Kempo/Costco run. He already had VB premier week point total down(up 3 for week). We figured the DIS'ers crashed the site.

He said the info was posted on another DVC mb a few days ago.

[jekjones1558]

For example, 2009 OKW 2 BR total weekly pts for the year are 1414. 2010 OKW 2 BR total weekly pts for the year are 1415. I know its only 1 pt and f I am wrong please correct me but if not what's next?

I believe that you would need to add ALL size units for a resort for a year and the total point costs for using every room for the whole year at a given resort cannot change. I have not done the math to see if the new allocations follow the rule of not.

[bobbiwoz]

We book different sorts of stays, and for us, things do even out. I'm unhappy with some, like the BC weekdays that went up, but our Marathon weekend 2010 went down. If DVC units were not used on weekends that isn't good for members. I think you need close to 100% occupancy for everyone to be able to use their points.

Bobbi:)

[eyeheartgoofy]

It is part of your contract.

Yes, I understand that it IS part of the contract. Still, it stinks that they don't give any notice for planning purposes.

I think it is just a ploy to get owners with smaller contracts (planning to take advantage of the Sun-Thur points) to purchase additional points. I don't care what type of spin they try to place on it ... people purchased knowing that weekends cost more and, therefore, either planned to pay for weekends with points or planned to avoid weekends because of the points. Disney did not make these changes to benefit members ... like everything else, Disney did this to increase profit.

[jbrowna]

None of the links on the DVC site work anymore. Not to the news story or the 2010 points charts. Hmmmmm.

That's what I'm finding right now. The links don't seem to work. I have to say that this move would/will tick me off as well, since we scrupulously avoid using weekend points. That being said, I have thought that the point differential between the weekends and weekdays was often extreme -- especially at OKW. But I dealt with it the way it was, and bought in on that basis as well.

[LVSWL]

Well, I'm just going to go ahead and say it. It ticks me off. Yes, lots of times we booked the Sun-Thurs vacation, but that did not mean that Disney lost out. We usually booked a room on member cash or a moderate resort or even a deluxe for Fri. and Sat before and after so they were getting theirs, sometimes on both ends. ESPECIALLY now that they charge more for the retail weekends! So my DH and I are joking that now we will just book DVC F-TU or something and then do retail Wed and Thurs. Shoot, that might be cheaper!:confused3

[Tricia1972]

Links aren't working for me either.

[BeccaG]

So I read someones post that they saved or printed the PDF of the new point chart. . .you want to scan them in for us all? :)
Pretty Please!!!!
-Becca

[Batistuta]

The point charts quit working around 8pm ish. DH found it and it was the first thing out of his mouth when I got home from the Kempo/Costco run. He already had VB premier week point total down(up 3 for week). We figured the DIS'ers crashed the site.

He said the info was posted on another DVC mb a few days ago.

The site's not crashed, it appears these have been taken down on purpose. Everything else on the site works. The news headline (Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts) is still there, just can't click it.

[icsinc]

Thanks Jean!! You are probably right. Unfortunatley, I cannot access the new pt schedule or the MS message to verify. If you look under the What's New section of News the article title is there but you cannot click on it. Once I can access the 2010 pts again I will confirm.

[Disney MAINEiac]

I can't find the 2010 points chart at the member site, has it been taken down or am I not in the right place?

[toocherie]

The site's not crashed, it appears these have been taken down on purpose. Everything else on the site works. The news headline (Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts) is still there, just can't click it.

speculation?

DVC made a mistake and those weren't the right charts . . . .

DVC started getting tons of irate calls and emails and decided to lay low . . . .

??????

[lovemyblt]

I can't find the 2010 points chart at the member site, has it been taken down or am I not in the right place?

they are gone.... for now.....

[bobbiwoz]

She (and I) don't have access to the member site since we haven't signed our contracts, yet. Those links don't work for us.

See, originally the links just took you to the chart, not to loggin in. Something changed. Maybe DVC changed their mind!:goodvibes

I wondered why I didn't get an e-mail...they send e-mails about everything else...this is important stuff!!!

Bobbi:)

[Dean]

A reallocation was inevitable and likely long over due. Don't be surprised if there are other changes in the next few years that won't necessarily fit well with the members of this board including possibly a minimum stay.

[lovemyblt]

speculation?

DVC made a mistake and those weren't the right charts . . . .

DVC started getting tons of irate calls and emails and decided to lay low . . . .

??????


I hope they were a mistake....
LOL the conspiracy theorist in me thinks "maybe they wanted to gauge our reaction" LOL

[pouncingpluto]

If they aren't getting high enough occupancy on the weekends, and there's too much demand for weekdays, the balance is off. It makes sense that they need to periodically adjust for this.

[GILL-WDW]

If DVC lowers the points can they ever raise them back up or higher?

[lovemyblt]

A reallocation was inevitable and likely long over due. Don't be surprised if there are other changes in the next few years that won't necessarily fit well with the members of this board including possibly a minimum stay.

see now for a newbie this is a scary thought that makes me regret my purchase

[Granny]

Wow, I am not a happy camper. We always made good use of the Sun-Thurs. points, do 3-4 trips a year, and stretch those points out.


I suspect that they are having difficultly with open rooms on weekends.



We are Sun-Thurs people

"To help address a growing Member interest in weekend stays at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, Disney Vacation Club has adjusted 2010 Vacation Points charts, reducing Vacation Point requirements for Friday and Saturday nights".

Hog wash. Why not be honest, do they think that we are idiots?

What they really should have said:

We want more members to stay on Fridays and Saturdays so we are lowering the required points.


My guess, and it is purely that, is that the Sun-Thurs scheduling of vacations has gotten availability out of whack on the weekends. I can't remember how many times I've seen on these boards that availability for a requested trip was only open for the weekend dates.

Remember...the reason for the unbalanced point schedule is to try to maximize occupancy every day of the week and throughout the year. This could be Disney just trying to even the occupancy load as they are supposed to do.

I don't know if this will help us or hurt us. If weekends become less "expensive" and more attractive this could throw the pendulum too far the other way and long weekend trips tie up weekend nights.

I do agree that if this is an occupancy balancing move, then Disney should have just said that instead of their usual transparent "spin" they try to put on everything. :sad2:

[simzac]

Yes, I understand that it IS part of the contract. Still, it stinks that they don't give any notice for planning purposes.

But they did give you notice for planning purposes. No one can book more than 11 months out at any resort, and 2010 as of today is more than 11 months out. Doesn't help anyones situation I know, but they did give everyone enough notice IMO.

[december14disney]

A reallocation was inevitable and likely long over due. Don't be surprised if there are other changes in the next few years that won't necessarily fit well with the members of this board including possibly a minimum stay.

Dean how could they put a min stay if the whole "sell" of DVC is you can use your points anyway you want for any length of stay? :confused3 just wondering..

[Deb & Bill]

If DVC lowers the points can they ever raise them back up or higher?

Sure, as long as they raise or lower elsewhere at the resort during the year. Add up all the studios, one, two and three bedroom villas at the resort and that should give you the number of points available at the resort. As long as they don't exceed or use fewer points than the total, they can do anything they like. They could double Christmas week and take a few points here and there to make up the difference.

[DebbieB]

Wow--now I'm really upset! :sad2: I figured the overall weekly points would stay the same, just adjusting for weekday vs. weekend. We JUST added on 25 AKV pts so that we could go every DEC (1st week) in a 1bdrm Sav. view. It WAS 205 pts., which is what we have. Now in 2010 the same week will be 206!!!!!! One pt short????

Perfect...a magic stay in BLT 1bdrm LV is now 1 pt LESS than what we have. So now to travel when we want, I will no longer be able to make a one week stay at AKV...I'll only be able to reserve 6 days and then WAIT 4 months for my ONE EXTRA BLT point to become available so I can HOPEFULLY reserve day 7!!!!!

Sorry for the caps, but I'm ready to throw up now.

Don't throw up, just borrow 1 point each year! You'll only end up short in the last year of your contract.

I usually stay Saturday to Friday. I really noticed at OKW that the parking lot by our unit was always close to empty on Saturday, Sunday it would be more crowded. I would occasionally look at the parking passes when I walked by, almost everyone checked out Friday. That left rooms empty Friday and Saturday nights that they probably had difficulty filling with cash rooms, especially without a big discount.

[dvc_john]

But they did give you notice for planning purposes. No one can book more than 11 months out at any resort, and 2010 as of today is more than 11 months out. Doesn't help anyones situation I know, but they did give everyone enough notice IMO.

Gave enough notice!!! I think NOT!!!

If you book a 7 day reservation 11 months in advance of check-in date, you can book Jan 1 2010 in 5 days. How many people plan their point usage less than 5 days in advance of calling MS???

I had my point usage for all of 2010 planned out. But now that will have to be re-done. And in short order at that.

Once again, MAJOR changes with very little notice!!!! This is getting old!

[CarolAnnC]

A reallocation was inevitable and likely long over due. Don't be surprised if there are other changes in the next few years that won't necessarily fit well with the members of this board including possibly a minimum stay.

I agree, it has been quite a while since there has been a shuffling of the points per night. I can see them heading to a minimum stay - or perhaps for certain units and/or views. The increase in minimum point add on may be pointing toward this too...

[december14disney]

All, I have the AKV chart saved as a PDF on my computer. If any of you want it and cant get to it now because of the site please email me at katie.siloac@gmail.com

[twebber55]

its easy for people who already go on weekend to somewhat shrugg this off but for us sunday-thursday families this really is a blow...i realize this is legal but again because its legal doesnt make it right...Disney is losing a day from me on tickets and food...not trying to to be mean towards anybody just am really frustrated

[kiingor]

Wow, really? Well, the total number of points for a resort can't change. Is what you're saying across the board? All resorts? We take lots of weekend trips because DH has "lost" some vacation days..cutbacks. I could be happy with this.

Bobbi:)

Is that really true- that the total # of points for a resort never changes-even 10 yrs from now ?:confused3 I was under the assumption that they go up maybe 1 pt every few years or something.

[december14disney]

All, I have the AKV chart saved as a PDF on my computer. If any of you want it and cant get to it now because of the site please email me at katie.siloac@gmail.com

[pouncingpluto]

its easy for people who already go on weekend to somewhat shrugg this off but for us sunday-thursday families this really is a blow...i realize this is legal but again because its legal doesnt make it right...Disney is losing a day from me on tickets and food...not trying to to be mean towards anybody just am really frustrated

I understand being disappointed/upset, but I don't understand thinking that you have actually been wronged in some way.

[Nikisha421]

Did anyone save the pdf and can post the new point charts? Must be heavy traffic trying to view them and the site keeps looping back to the log-in screen.

Thanks in advance,

its 2hrs later and i was going to post the same question! the site is still looping.

[eyeheartgoofy]

But they did give you notice for planning purposes. No one can book more than 11 months out at any resort, and 2010 as of today is more than 11 months out. Doesn't help anyones situation I know, but they did give everyone enough notice IMO.

Well, I was able to borrow from my 2010 vacation points. As I wrote earlier, I specifically planned the borrowing to leave me with enough vacation points at my home resort (VWL) to book a 5 night Sun-Thur stay during Spring Break of 2010. Now, I don't have enough 2010 points to book the stay.

[twebber55]

its quite simple my trip to HH is now 25 points more for 2010 than 2009....and with a spouse who just lost her job we cannot add on at this point.....didnt say i think its unethical or illegal just wrong.....if you are a sunday - thursday person youwould feel the same way....maybe i sound bitter but thats one day every year for for the next 33 years that we have lost because of this...i certainly understand the rules i have to live by with DVC that doesnt mean i think things are laways done right

[pouncingpluto]

But wrong in what sense, if not legally or ethically?

[bookwormde]

If they are going to change the chart for 2010 they need to have them up by 1/25/09 9 am EST since that is when 1/1/2010 can first be booked.

bookwormde

[msmayor]

I don't know...if folks are so outraged by this change (as I've read "being legal doesn't make it right", or words to that effect) then where was the outrage when folks read their contracts?

If you think it's a bad clause, then why did you buy?

[tvwalsh]

Clear thinking, bookwormde! :cool1:

[twebber55]

I don't know...if folks are so outraged by this change (as I've read "being legal doesn't make it right", or words to that effect) then where was the outrage when folks read their contracts?

If you think it's a bad clause, then why did you buy?

you dont have to agree with everything within DVC to love it...if i followed this principle my wife would have left me along time ago:rotfl2:

[bobbiwoz]

Is that really true- that the total # of points for a resort never changes-even 10 yrs from now ?:confused3 I was under the assumption that they go up maybe 1 pt every few years or something.

They can never change. It's the number of points at the resort that are declared. That number is set in stone. OK...that's my understanding.
Bobbi:)

[dizzneebabe]

Don't throw up, just borrow 1 point each year! You'll only end up short in the last year of your contract.



You're right, I could do that. The idea was that we had exactly enough to vacation how we wanted to (AKV every year at Christmas or Labor Day) and BLT 2x in 3 years during magic). It throws things off. And I feel like I'm lucky--I do have that extra point, it's just at another property. Some folks sound like they will indeed be short and possibly lose a day (on points anyway) because of it.

Strange...when I first posted on this thread I printed out 2010 AKV and BLT point charts. I dont' want to cause more uproar in posting them, but if anyone wants them, PM or email me at: rhonda_foss@comshark.com

[HookdonWDW]

I listed VWL and BCV on seperate threads on this board.

HTH...

[Starr W.]

Clear thinking, bookwormde! :cool1:

Clear thinking and DVC don't often go together.;)

[eyeheartgoofy]

I don't know...if folks are so outraged by this change (as I've read "being legal doesn't make it right", or words to that effect) then where was the outrage when folks read their contracts?

If you think it's a bad clause, then why did you buy?

Look, I purchased 2 years ago. Prior to the purchase, I inquired about that clause. My investigations uncovered that the clause really didn't mean much ...there was a "minor" change in points allocations at OKW. And, I've since learned, that BWV had some adjustments prior to the sales being completed. Other than that, there really weren't any changes.

Say you purchased 350 points at VWL and planned to use those points to stay in a one bedroom for one week every year during the Premiere Season. Then, the Premiere Season was changed to 450 points for the week. Naturally, Magic season was reduced by 70 points and Dream season was reduced by 30 points in order to make it legal under the contract. Wouldn't that upset you in the least if you specifically planned to vacation in Premiere season?

[jekjones1558]

Don't throw up, just borrow 1 point each year! You'll only end up short in the last year of your contract.

Actually you would need to borrow 1 point the first year, 2 points the next year, 3 points the next year, 4 points the next year, etc., if my math is right at this hour of the evening.

[pouncingpluto]

[QUOTE=eyeheartgoofy;29822205]Look, I purchased 2 years ago. Prior to the purchase, I inquired about that clause. My investigations uncovered that the clause really didn't mean much ...there was a "minor" change in points allocations at OKW. And, I've since learned, that BWV had some adjustments prior to the sales being completed. Other than that, there really weren't any changes.

Say you purchased 350 points at VWL and planned to use those points to stay in a one bedroom for one week every year during the Premiere Season. Then, the Premiere Season was changed to 450 points for the week. Naturally, Magic season was reduced by 70 points and Dream season was reduced by 30 points in order to make it legal under the contract. Wouldn't that upset you in the least if you specifically planned to vacation in Premiere season?[/QUOTE

Absolutely, but there's a difference between being upset about the change and claiming that you have been wronged by DVC.

[jgus]

I think this is more than a minor adjustment. Add the change from II to RCI, and I think it's more $$ driven than for the benifit of the members.

[MICKEYFAN28]

I'm very disappointed with this if it holds true. I do find it odd that it has already been pulled from the site. I am leaving sun for an 12 day trip and will be visiting my guide for sure!!! Hopefully he will have some answers.

[Plutofan]

they are gone.... for now.....

They left up the Vero point charts

[DebbieB]

Actually you would need to borrow 1 point the first year, 2 points the next year, 3 points the next year, 4 points the next year, etc., if my math is right at this hour of the evening.

You're right. Assuming, they don't change them again. It will still take a long time to where you run out and will have to skip a year.

2009: 205
2010: 205 + 1 2011
2011: 204 + 2 2012
2012: 203 + 3 2013

[Plutofan]

Just on a side note I was booking a cash reservation through member services and just realized that when I do a cash reservation and there is no discount available I am paying the same price as everyone else (non DVC people) BUT they get maid service. I spend all this money and non members get more service in this situation than members. DVC members really get burnt... Just thought I would add some bad policies that DVC has to the fire....

[dizzneebabe]

The only thing I see for 2010 is DCL points.

[kikiq]

ETA: My guide clearly explained the shifting of points to me - I'm sure they've all been trained on how to present it, but some folk are better than others at explaining. I will agree that when determining how many points to initially buy DVC has told their reps to have us pick the vacation we'd like to have every year and buy enough points to civer that... and they do push full weeks. This approach may make those who buy just enough to cover S-Th stays feel like they've been duped. Not so. It's just when figuring your points required for your stay, you forgot to take into account that they may shift up or down.

YES, YES, YES...I was beginning to think that my guide was the only guide who explained how the point system work (until my eyes crossed). I think she repeated herself several times and did different scenarios for my DH's benefit, because I was clear that the TOTAL resort points didn't change BUT the season/day points may change at ANY time. The phrase I remember was "IF the points decrease for this weekend night THEN they have to go up some other night." We went through several different ways to use points and ended up buying a tad more to take in account a change in the way we may want to vacation.

[starbox]

But wrong in what sense, if not legally or ethically?

Things can be wrong without being unethical or illegal. For example, I think it was "wrong" for Disney to get rid of the Mickey-shaped butter at CRT and the glow-in-the dark Sci Fi Diner mugs.:rotfl: Legal - sure, Ethical - sure - but I still think they were wrong decisions.

My motto: Don't ruin the magic. :wizard:

[dizzneebabe]

You're right. Assuming, they don't change them again. It will still take a long time to where you run out and will have to skip a year.

2009: 205
2010: 205 + 1 2011
2011: 204 + 2 2012
2012: 203 + 3 2013

Yep, you're right. That's even WORSE! If I have a banked 2009 BLT point from this year, will I be able to use it to book at 11 months for AKV ?

[twebber55]

[QUOTE=eyeheartgoofy;29822205]Look, I purchased 2 years ago. Prior to the purchase, I inquired about that clause. My investigations uncovered that the clause really didn't mean much ...there was a "minor" change in points allocations at OKW. And, I've since learned, that BWV had some adjustments prior to the sales being completed. Other than that, there really weren't any changes.

Say you purchased 350 points at VWL and planned to use those points to stay in a one bedroom for one week every year during the Premiere Season. Then, the Premiere Season was changed to 450 points for the week. Naturally, Magic season was reduced by 70 points and Dream season was reduced by 30 points in order to make it legal under the contract. Wouldn't that upset you in the least if you specifically planned to vacation in Premiere season?[/QUOTE

Absolutely, but there's a difference between being upset about the change and claiming that you have been wronged by DVC.

Hey Puncing are you a mich fan iused to live in ypsi and love the big Blue....i do not think ive been wronged i just dont like it...it certainly is legal i m on the wrong side of the fence this time..just my choosing of the word wrong..nothing here done illegally just i dont think it is the right thing to do

[mykidslovesdisney]

I have logged into mbr page but when I click on 2010 point charts it reopens the home page for DVC. It does not do this if I click on 2009 point charts. Any assistance would the greatly appreciated. I am nervous bc we pay cash on wkends and worry we will not have enough points now for the week. We usually stay 8 nights.

thanks in advance

[Chuck S]

Just on a side note I was booking a cash reservation through member services and just realized that when I do a cash reservation and there is no discount available I am paying the same price as everyone else (non DVC people) BUT they get maid service. I spend all this money and non members get more service in this situation than members. DVC members really get burnt... Just thought I would add some bad policies that DVC has to the fire....

Well, it's true you won't get made service, but there is a good possibility with the CRO reservation that you would need to move. Booking through DVC gives you a continuous stay. For one night, for me, the convenience of not moving would trump the maid service. For several nights, I'd probably opt for the CRO reservation.

[jgus]

Go Blue!

And I agree it's not a "good decision"

[Chuck S]

I have logged into mbr page but when I click on 2010 point charts it reopens the home page for DVC. It does not do this if I click on 2009 point charts. Any assistance would the greatly appreciated. I am nervous bc we pay cash on wkends and worry we will not have enough points now for the week. We usually stay 8 nights.

thanks in advance


The 2010 charts and the notice (the headline is still there) have been taken offline, at least temporarily.

[mykidslovesdisney]

thanks for letting me know. I am worried we will not have enough pts to stay as long as we do. guess I will have to sit and wait

[jekjones1558]

If I have a banked 2009 BLT point from this year, will I be able to use it to book at 11 months for AKV ?

No--you could only use that point at 7 months if it is from a different resort.

[Donald is #1]

Very interesting, in my case I think that it will basically balance out. My stays tend to be 7-10 days so I think that I will be ok.

[WebmasterDoc]

Having gone thru this once before, I must say I'm disappointed and surprised.

I have been saying for years that while the points can be reallocated that has happened only once, at OKW in 1996, and that I don't expect any change in the near future. DVC has had opportunity to modify the point charts to reflect usage each time a new resort has opened and SSR and AKV did have different point charts than any of the prior resorts.

I'm really surprised to see that even AKV has changed. I was able to look at OKW and HH before DVC removed the new charts from the member site and was very surprised at the changes. They will affect us a little bit - especially since we just sold a contract - but we will survive and modify our future plans accordingly.

We all need to be aware of the provisions in the POS and truly do NOT listen to any rhetoric from the DVC guides about points not changing. They have now changed twice in the past 13 years. The change for 1996 was announced in the fall of 1994 - we have traditonally received the new point charts about 15 months in advance - but this time we still have nothing in print and DVC has now even taken down the electronic notice from the member's site. We are within 5 days of being able to reserve for 2010 and nothing "official" has been sent out or even been made available on the member site.

Stay Tuned! :(

[Starr W.]

Dean how could they put a min stay if the whole "sell" of DVC is you can use your points anyway you want for any length of stay? :confused3 just wondering..

Wyndham during busy seasons requires 3-4 night stays to check in or check out on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

Or DVC could make you wait until the 7 month mark to make any reservation less than a week.

[ABCanada]

I have not seen the new charts but my two cents based on the comments.

If this change decreases unit turnover, people no longer moving to lower ‘cost’ accommodation for the weekend, hopefully it will decrease housekeeping and front desk costs and therefore soften the increases in our maintenance fee. For a 12 day DVC stay where you move to either a lower cost DVC unit or resort room you have two more check ins and one more full cleaning than the same stay staying put. I would not want to limit stays to weekly basis but I think we should have a point system that encourages people to minimize the turnover and maximize the total occupancy.

Hopefully this increases the total occupancy of the units which should benefit everyone.

Also the ratio of points between studio, one and two bedroom units did seem a bit off and was different from the cash rate ratio. While a one bedroom is generally twice the size of a studio, given they sleep the same number, I doubt the housekeeping etc is twice the cost. It is hard to understand why a one bedroom was more than twice a studio but a two bedroom which sleeps twice as many as a one bedroom and has 50% more space only requires 30% more points. They maybe realigning the points to improve total occupancy.

[Weluvdisny]

Anyone have BWV points saved? I'm renting points for January 8-10, 2010 and I need to know how many points to ask for.

[PutnamDS]

I must be blind. . I cant find it on the member site, under news or the point chart. . .

I can't find it either - and it is not under the 2010 section - at least on my computer!

deb

[huey578]

Did they take off the 2010 points chart for AKV? It's not coming up :(

[Starr W.]

YES, YES, YES...I was beginning to think that my guide was the only guide who explained how the point system work (until my eyes crossed). I think she repeated herself several times and did different scenarios for my DH's benefit, because I was clear that the TOTAL resort points didn't change BUT the season/day points may change at ANY time. The phrase I remember was "IF the points decrease for this weekend night THEN they have to go up some other night." We went through several different ways to use points and ended up buying a tad more to take in account a change in the way we may want to vacation.

Our guide also explained it to us also. If he's reading this(he's a casual lurker and knows my screen name):thumbsup2 .

[jlewisinsyr]

Trying to avoid a what-if scenario, but Disney needs to be aware of how their agents sell the contracts. Although they do clearly state they can change, the guides sell the points based on the points charts, this could be presented as an issue legally in terms of DVC changing points in the future.

The guides are Disney employees, and anything the guides say is representative of Disney and the methodology they use to sell points is contradictory to the contract itself. In most forms of contracts, selling is part of the total package and misrepresentation of the product, regardless of the contract can lead to lawsuits.

[maminnie]

I too am very disappointed. We purchased our initial contract and our add-on contract (two different resorts) with particular seasons and length of stays in mind. Reservations using both contracts are now effected by these changes.

Once again, what can we do as voicing our concerns and disappointment will likely yield nothing as with past issues with DVC changes and modifications or should I say "MEMBER ENHANCEMENTS"!!!!!

maminnie

[Dean]

see now for a newbie this is a scary thought that makes me regret my purchaseDVC has the OBLIGATION and legal requirement to keep demand and usage within a relatively narrow range. The main tool they have to do this is by adjusting the points from weekends/weekdays and one season to another. The overall points won't change. The only people who should be truly adversely affected will be those that tried to cut it close with a partial week, off season choice or smaller unit (or combo). That's one of the reasons I've always recommended buying a cushion of points for those looking at specific unit choices. Nothing scary about it unless one made the mistake of assuming points can't change but not understanding the product they were buying.

Dean how could they put a min stay if the whole "sell" of DVC is you can use your points anyway you want for any length of stay? :confused3 just wondering..simple, the POS says they can, up to 5 days. People have to learn the difference between legal options and hype. Verbal representations and past hx mean little if not protected in the paperwork. Whether they'll do, we'll see, my point was to expect further changes over the years and this was a good example I knew would get people's attention.

[Chuck S]

Our guide also explained it to us also. If he's reading this(he's a casual lurker and knows my screen name):thumbsup2 .


My guide explained this very well to us in 1992, too. I think, though, that some of the problem for newer members who may now not have enough points could also be that in 1992, 230 points was the minimum buy-in. I think the 150 point minimum, which was in effect for several years, didn't really allow for additional points in case of a re-allocation. It really was a disservice to many buyers to have that low of a minimum buy-in.

And, it also would probably be good if Disney had not allowed small resale contracts to pass ROFR, except to people who are already members. Really, if someone only owns 25 points total through resale, a re-allocation can make their interest almost unusable.

[logan115]

Well -

I'm on the fence about buying into DVC, and was originally looking at 75 pt resale contracts that would cover a Sun-Thurs stay in a 1br every other year and part of a studio on the weekend.

Now it's looking like I go up to a 100 pt contract or skip it all together.

Suppose the Sun-Thurs thing was too good to last forever, but tacking on another 4-6 pts/night is a bit harsh. As I'm not a member I can't see the new charts (if they're even up anymore), but how does the math work that it's benefit to owners to pay 4-6 pts more 5 nights/week to save even 7-8 on the other 2 :rotfl2:

Geez - I've done my own "Disney math" when even trying to justify the viability of buying in, but realistically another 20-30 pts for a 5 night stay is a bit steep.

Chris

[Doug7856]

In my opinion, DVC should seek member feedback and should give a minimum of 2 years notice for such a significant change so that members can plan accordingly. Many of us have made plans for several years out and this is disruptive to our plans based on realistic expectations.

DVC is destroying a lot of good will with this move. It is shocking for a company that has to survive by repeat business to implement such a controversial change. This move is very bad for their business model. I will not be earning any referral bonuses because I cannot in good conscience recommend DVC. Mr. Iger should be remember that it is very difficult to regain trust once it has been lost.

Just my opinion, yours may differ.

[erionm]

Did they take off the 2010 points chart for AKV? It's not coming up :(
They have been taken off the member website.

[Mamiamjo]

Yes the charts are down.

looking at what was posted for BCV, if you stay for 7 nights the points are "mostly" the same. Although the week we were planning on going in 2010 the weekly points went UP 2 points. We had exactly the number we needed so now we'll have to borrow 2 points or only stay 6 days:sad1:

It seems that if you stay for less than 7 days, including no weekend days (or even one weekend day) you'll end up using more points which will negatively affect a lot of DVCers that stay Sun -Thur.
It really only seems to help people that will stay less than a week but include both week end days.

[iloveokw]

Please don't flame me. When we bought DVC 13 yrs ago the reason for having higher points on the weekends was so that the members living in Florida or nearby couldn't book up weekends making it difficult for members like us to book a full week or more vacation. We bought enough points so that we can book and not stay somewhere else on the weekends. I have already emailed my concerns to MS about not being able to get a weekend when booking because of this change.

[toocherie]

Trying to avoid a what-if scenario, but Disney needs to be aware of how their agents sell the contracts. Although they do clearly state they can change, the guides sell the points based on the points charts, this could be presented as an issue legally in terms of DVC changing points in the future.

The guides are Disney employees, and anything the guides say is representative of Disney and the methodology they use to sell points is contradictory to the contract itself. In most forms of contracts, selling is part of the total package and misrepresentation of the product, regardless of the contract can lead to lawsuits.

actually, I suspect somewhere in that contract is a pretty standard clause in real estate transactions that unless it's written in the contract, any verbal or other representation or idea made by an employee (i.e. Guide) cannot be relied upon.

[logan115]

What's next - WDW giving away free food to attract people at off-peak times, oh, wait a second...........:rotfl:

Chris

[WebmasterDoc]

Trying to avoid a what-if scenario, but Disney needs to be aware of how their agents sell the contracts. Although they do clearly state they can change, the guides sell the points based on the points charts, this could be presented as an issue legally in terms of DVC changing points in the future.

The guides are Disney employees, and anything the guides say is representative of Disney and the methodology they use to sell points is contradictory to the contract itself. In most forms of contracts, selling is part of the total package and misrepresentation of the product, regardless of the contract can lead to lawsuits.

The contract you must sign has a disclaimer stating that the printed document takes precedent over any verbal communications. While the guides may be misleading at times, their comments do not override the terms spelled out in the POS you will (or have already) signed to close.

In this case, the point charts will not change until 2010, so any comments a guide might make about reservations is still true thru the end of 2009. The written contract still reflects the legal description of the program and is the final word in what was agreed to at closing.

This is the second time such a change has occurred - the last being 1996 at OKW (that change was announced in the fall of 1994).

[jlewisinsyr]

The contract you must sign has a disclaimer stating that the printed document takes precedent over any verbal communications. While the guides may be misleading at times, their comments do not override the terms spelled out in the POS you will (or have already) signed to close.

Those same terms and conditions are in many contracts, including insurance and investments, and let me tell you, more then one case has entered class status because of how a product was sold.

[Chuck S]

As I'm not a member I can't see the new charts (if they're even up anymore), but how does the math work that it's benefit to owners to pay 4-6 pts more 5 nights/week to save even 7-8 on the other 2 :rotfl2:




I suppose in theory, it could lower resort operating costs by evening out demand for housekeepers and front desk personal, rather than have an overload on Fridays and Sundays, and may lead to getting members into their rooms more quickly. But, often theory and what really happens, are entirely different.

[pouncingpluto]

Things can be wrong without being unethical or illegal. For example, I think it was "wrong" for Disney to get rid of the Mickey-shaped butter at CRT and the glow-in-the dark Sci Fi Diner mugs.:rotfl: Legal - sure, Ethical - sure - but I still think they were wrong decisions.

My motto: Don't ruin the magic. :wizard:

I agree... it wasn't an either, or question... those were the two that had already been eliminated, so I was asking in what OTHER sense.

[logan115]

speculation?

DVC made a mistake and those weren't the right charts . . . .

DVC started getting tons of irate calls and emails and decided to lay low . . . .

??????


Ever wonder if the folks at DVC put something on the member site for kicks, then check DIS an hour later and see what the reaction is..........

[pouncingpluto]

[QUOTE=pouncingpluto;29822229]

Hey Puncing are you a mich fan iused to live in ypsi and love the big Blue....i do not think ive been wronged i just dont like it...it certainly is legal i m on the wrong side of the fence this time..just my choosing of the word wrong..nothing here done illegally just i dont think it is the right thing to do

I am! I'm in the law school at Michigan, and my husband is a double Michigan alum himself.

[vicki_c]

When we bought DVC 13 yrs ago the reason for having higher points on the weekends was so that the members living in Florida or nearby couldn't book up weekends making it difficult for members like us to book a full week or more vacation.

Where does it say that's why there's higher points on weekends? I don't think that's in your membership info.

I assumed it was higher points on weekends because the price for staying on weekends on cash is higher as well (although that wasn't always true). Or I at least assume that it's about supply and demand - they charge more on weekends because they're in higher demand, even if it seems that most members only stay Sun-Thurs.

I'm not flaming you at all - everyone's entitled to their opinion about the changes, but you say it like that was DVC's statement about the points -- was it?

[huey578]

Looking at the new point charts, we will have an extra 2 points. We usually stay a week (Saturday thru Saturday) in October :) I feel for you guys that have to fork up extra points :(

[Starr W.]

Ever wonder if the folks at DVC put something on the member site for kicks, then check DIS an hour later and see what the reaction is..........

:rotfl2: Actually there was a big DVC party tonight and after a few drinks, they decide lets see how we can get the Dis crowd wound up. Grab an IT guy and laptop, ta da new point charts and waitlist rule.

They may have had a pool on how many pages this thread would be by 11pm.

[DVCSAMNH]

Wow! I have to say that as a Sun-Thurs traveller I am very unhappy about this one. My husband and I along with our adult kids manage to squeeze about 30 nights/year out of our 350 points.

With even just a 2 pt per night increase that is a 60 point per year loss! That is a loss of a trip per year or sucking it up and purchasing a 60 plus point add-on! That is true for how many of us?? I own a small number of points. What about the big point owners who travel the same way. I can tell you that after this addonitis is cured. I don't trust them to not do this again.

I understand the POS, which I believe a lot of us do, I just don't think any one us ever thought changes would be this extreme. There just isn't enough benefit on the weekend end to make up the difference. The weekend points are still too high.

DVC is making a lot of changes lately and not one of them is making the members stand up and say "Yay!!"

[Chuck S]

Where does it say that's why there's higher points on weekends? I don't think that's in your membership info.

I assumed it was higher points on weekends because the price for staying on weekends on cash is higher as well (although that wasn't always true). Or I at least assume that it's about supply and demand - they charge more on weekends because they're in higher demand, even if it seems that most members only stay Sun-Thurs.

I'm not flaming you at all - everyone's entitled to their opinion about the changes, but you say it like that DVC's statement about the points -- was it?


iloveokw is correct that that was the reason stated by DVC to the early purchasers. As to whether or not that was the true reason is unknown. At the time, though, it seemed reasonable, as many timeshares allowed local owners to use the facilities (pools, weightrooms, etc) as "day visitors," many still do. And well, being Disney, many local owners probably would reserve weekends if the points were the same for weeknights and weekends. But, it may be that there has been too many empty weekend rooms, or too many members moving on weekends the last few years, so they are trying to equalize usage.

[toocherie]

our local news (L.A.) just announced that Disney has offered buy-outs to 600 theme park executives because of the drop in attendance, etc. Not clear if that was just West Coast employees but I'm assuming (hoping?) it's nation-wide and not just out here and there won't be an additional cut on the East Coast.

so you can look forward to less "magic" in the parks . . . . .

[toocherie]

:rotfl2: Actually there was a big DVC party tonight and after a few drinks, they decide lets see how we can get the Dis crowd wound up. Grab an IT guy and laptop, ta da new point charts and waitlist rule.

They may have had a pool on how many pages this thread would be by 11pm.

East Coast or West Coast time?

[Starr W.]

East Coast or West Coast time?

I would guess east coast since they are in FL and they have to go to work on Thursday.:)

[logan115]

:rotfl2: Actually there was a big DVC party tonight and after a few drinks, they decide lets see how we can get the Dis crowd wound up. Grab an IT guy and laptop, ta da new point charts and waitlist rule.

They may have had a pool on how many pages this thread would be by 11pm.


Wait until they announce that the points used for a SV at AKV will increase by 1 pt for every animal you see...........

[Starr W.]

Wait until they announce that the points used for a SV at AKV will increase by 1 pt for every animal you see...........

Do you have Jim Lewis's office bugged? :rotfl:

[jlewisinsyr]

our local news (L.A.) just announced that Disney has offered buy-outs to 600 theme park executives because of the drop in attendance, etc. Not clear if that was just West Coast employees but I'm assuming (hoping?) it's nation-wide and not just out here and there won't be an additional cut on the East Coast.

so you can look forward to less "magic" in the parks . . . . .

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUSN2149402820090121?rpc=11

[logan115]

Do you have Jim Lewis's office bugged? :rotfl:

No - but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night (would've been at DVC but they just raised the Sun-Thurs rates :lmao: ).

Ok - I'm done ..............for now............

[bethy]

It just so happens I still have some of the 2010 point charts windows up from before they were taken down. I have AKV, BCV, SSR and OKW. If anyone wants some points quotes from those please let me know. Of course they could change - that might even be why there were taken down . . . :confused3

[WebmasterDoc]

Those same terms and conditions are in many contracts, including insurance and investments, and let me tell you, more then one case has entered class status because of how a product was sold.


DVC is neither insurance nor an investment. It is a real estate purchase and the "verbal" clause is pretty standard in that type of contract ... and EVERY member has agreed to that provision - either as the original buyer or as the resale purchaser who (tacitly) agrees to the documents already agreed to by the seller.

A (very) few have had their personal legal representative review the documents before signing and that is one provision usually pointed out during that review. Most have not bothered to have that review, but that does not release them from any disappointment later after signing the agreement. If it's something important to a buyer, it would be best to have it included, in writing, in the contract you will sign.

[permavac]

...They have now changed twice in the past 13 years. The change for 1996 was announced in the fall of 1994 - we have traditonally received the new point charts about 15 months in advance - but this time we still have nothing in print and DVC has now even taken down the electronic notice from the member's site. We are within 5 days of being able to reserve for 2010 and nothing "official" has been sent out or even been made available on the member site...

Here is an indisputable fact. While I don't have strong enough feelings at this point about how any point changes will affect me (too few points right now to do much with anyway ;)), I will say that I knew the possibility was there that the points could move up or down. What is surprising to me is that there hasn't been any notice given here at the 11th hour. With all the talk of 11-month bookings and planning ahead, it stands to reason that plenty of DVCers plan a good year or so in advance of their vacations - which means point allocations are being calculated and accounted for. I know the changes are perfectly legal and I will accept them when they come out, but the lack of notice is... inconsiderate... to say the least.

Terri

[Chuck S]

It just so happens I still have some of the 2010 point charts windows up from before they were taken down. I have AKV, BCV, SSR and OKW. If anyone wants some points quotes from those please let me know. Of course they could change - that might even be why there were taken down . . . :confused3

If you are in adobe reader, try saving a copy. I closed the OKW chart before I saved it.

[ashbradnmom]

Doc while i agree with you on almost everything I have to disagree DVC is not an investment. You can chose to invest in real estate or the stock market, but it is still an investment. If you keep it long enough you can make money on it. But i plan on keeping mine for my kids(and myself a big kid).

[jlewisinsyr]

DVC is neither insurance nor an investment. It is a real estate purchase and the "verbal" clause is pretty standard in that type of contract ... and EVERY member has agreed to that provision - either as the original buyer or as the resale purchaser who (tacitly) agrees to the documents already agreed to by the seller.

A (very) few have had their personal legal representative review the documents before signing and that is one provision usually pointed out during that review. Most have not bothered to have that review, but that does not release them from any disappointment later after signing the agreement. If it's something important to a buyer, it would be best to have it included, in writing, in the contract you will sign.

Real Estate or not, many of the same governing policies apply. Let me clarify, I have no interest in bringing class, or anything on that line, just trying to make a point that sales tactics can be an issue.

Understand, their contract is not bulletproof, someone with the will, want and reason could break it apart, regardless of what is says.

[dvc at last !]

Thanks for this info.

:cool1:

[Bunkobeth]

I'm new here but with the numbers that were posted for SSR earlier in the thread, I've been adding and all sorts of stuff with the new and old charts. The points are WAY OFF. Knowing that the points can't change overall for the charts, I went through and added things up. The points overall are less for the entire SSR chart but in each category they don't add up correctly. If you add up each point the 2009 chart it equals 2056 pts. and in 2010 it will be 2023 pts.
Now, if you look at the weekly rate it gets even more "interesting"

For example: the 2009 studio points vs the 2010 studio weekly stay
adventure: 95 vs 96
choice: 97 vs 105
dream: 112 vs 112
magic: 123 vs 123
premier: 163 vs 161
overall net change is +7

For the other room sizes the net change for a 1 bedroom is -4, the 2 bedroom is -1, and the grand villa is -44.

I may not be looking at it correctly - but this really upsets me. If I was to take the same trip I'm taking in 2010 as 2009 it would cost me 28 more points! Could someone else grab a calculator and see if the points are the same for their resort charts.
I remember the CM telling us that they can reallocate points but the overall value would never change. My math says the seasons aren't balanced and the entire chart is out of whack. Therefore, the overall value has changed.
Am I looking at this correctly?

[WebmasterDoc]

Doc while i agree with you on almost everything I have to disagree DVC is not an investment. You can chose to invest in real estate or the stock market, but it is still an investment. If you keep it long enough you can make money on it. But i plan on keeping mine for my kids(and myself a big kid).

The POS pretty clearly states that DVC is not an investment. IMO, no timeshare is an investment and should not be purchased as such. I have purchased a number of timeshares for pennies on the dollar based on their original selling price and have sold timeshares for no profit at all - and also just sold a DVC contact for $21/point more than I paid for it 10 years ago. At this time you can purchase timeshares in Hawaii for literally a penny and some expire with no bids at that price. Don't purchase any timeshare expecting to make a profit - it is not considered an investment.

Understand, their contract is not bulletproof, someone with the will, want and reason could break it apart, regardless of what is says.

I wish that "someone" well with their lawsuit - class or otherwise.

[WebmasterDoc]

I'm new here but with the numbers that were posted for SSR earlier in the thread, I've been adding and all sorts of stuff with the new and old charts. The points are WAY OFF. Knowing that the points can't change overall for the charts, I went through and added things up. The points overall are less for the entire SSR chart but in each category they don't add up correctly. If you add up each point the 2009 chart it equals 2056 pts. and in 2010 it will be 2023 pts.
Now, if you look at the weekly rate it gets even more "interesting"

For example: the 2009 studio points vs the 2010 studio weekly stay
adventure: 95 vs 96
choice: 97 vs 105
dream: 112 vs 112
magic: 123 vs 123
premier: 163 vs 161
overall net change is +7

For the other room sizes the net change for a 1 bedroom is -4, the 2 bedroom is -1, and the grand villa is -44.

I may not be looking at it correctly - but this really upsets me. If I was to take the same trip I'm taking in 2010 as 2009 it would cost me 28 more points! Could someone else grab a calculator and see if the points are the same for their resort charts.
I remember the CM telling us that they can reallocate points but the overall value would never change. My math says the seasons aren't balanced and the entire chart is out of whack. Therefore, the overall value has changed.
Am I looking at this correctly?

Don't forget that as of June, 2009 SSR will have an additional 60 villas. Be sure to include the points for 60 THVs in your computations.

[Bunkobeth]

If I add the THV, that would add 505 points to the chart. So the new 2010 chart would be 2528. Adding them into the 2009, the points would be 2561.
So the chart would change again. According to the 2009 chart points the THV are the same as the 2 BR points.

It still doesn't add up - now the ultimate question - what can we do about it??

[marynvince]

Don't forget that as of June, 2009 SSR will have an additional 60 villas. Be sure to include the points for 60 THVs in your computations.

Has anything to do with balancing, whether it's 60THVs or 600. And if the points for THVs are the same as 2 bedrooms as they are in 2009 then they don't matter at all.

[TreesyB]

Anyone else still can't find the point charts?

[tjkraz]

If I add the THV, that would add 505 points to the chart. So the new 2010 chart would be 2528. Adding them into the 2009, the points would be 2561.
So the chart would change again. According to the 2009 chart points the THV are the same as the 2 BR points.

It still doesn't add up - now the ultimate question - what can we do about it??

Even without a reallocation the total points will vary from year-to-year. There are years when February has 29 days. There are years when Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve and New Years day all fall on a high-priced weekend and other years when they are weekdays. There are years when July has 5 weekends and years where it has just 4 weekends.

I don't know the exact methodology used to determine the starting basis for the point calcuations. Could be a multi-year average or some other baseline.

[Cindaddy]

I'm dying to see the chart for BLT. I hope they put them back up soon.

[Plutofan]

Every other year we do a Beach cottage in June for a Sunday - Friday. Now with the point change it will now cost us 50 extra points - a 19% percent increase. Also we bought enough AKV points so we could book a Grand Villa for 5 nights. So much for that... It is interesting that the Sunday - Friday DVC members will have to buy more points. Can you get the small amount of points by resale - well it will be expensive with commission and fees and probably hard to find. Mmmm. I guess I will have to call my guide to do a small add on. Thanks Disney.

[Plutofan]

Anyone else still can't find the point charts?

I wonder if Disney monitors the boards. I posted on aboard about 1 1/2 hours ago that all the 2010 point charts were missing except Vero. That chart was still up. Well now that chart is now missing. Be sure to post your comments since they do read the boards....in between updating point charts and doing other things for our benefit.

[ems_mom]

I haven't read all the posts but my here's my two cents...

I just bought a BLT add on for just enough points to allow me a 5 day 1 bedroom stay every third year, with banking and borrowing. I realize within the life of a contract, DVC has a right to reallocate points.

But I just bought a week ago and the resort isn't even open yet! My guide should have given me a heads up or they should allow me to buy 5 more points.

Seriously, isn't this called bait and switch?

[WebmasterDoc]

If I add the THV, that would add 505 points to the chart. So the new 2010 chart would be 2528. Adding them into the 2009, the points would be 2561.
So the chart would change again. According to the 2009 chart points the THV are the same as the 2 BR points.

It still doesn't add up - now the ultimate question - what can we do about it??

You have to look at the TOTAL number of points for the whole resort - based on each season and each villa type and each view for the entire year. The addition of 60 more 2BR viilas (THVs) does certainly change the total for the year and it's quite a few points - although as of right now - no THVs have been declared into the 2009 inventory as far as I know.

Adding 60 THVs is far more than 505 points for the whole year (or even 7 months).

At this time DVD still owns ALL of the THV points and until some of those units are declared into DVC inventory, nothing changes regarding the total points available at that resort.

To figure out the totals for SSR, take the total points needed to reserve a Studio, 1BR, 2BR and GV for every night of the year and multiply that by the number of Studios, 1BRs, 2BRs and GVs at the resort - then add the points at the declared THVs to get the total number of points at the resort. That will equal the points that cannot be changed for the resort. DVC can reallocate those points as they wish over the year as long as the total needed for reservations equals the total available. There is also some annual variation based on when the holidays fall and the number of days in February, etc.

You cannot look at one type of villa or one season - you need to total all villas and all seasons. You may also need to subtract the number of points owned by DVD (2-4%) to figure the actual total used to compute the charts.

[AnnaS]

Subscribing.

[tjkraz]

Random thought: Don't know if anyone else brought this up but it ought to be interesting to see what this does to the rental market. Some are already lamenting the fact that points "only" rent for $10-11 each. Now renters could be facing a 10-15% increase in the number of points needed for each weeknight.

The gap between rental prices and CRO rates just got that much smaller.

As for the change, intellectually I know it was the right thing to do. There is no way weekend nights should have been double weekday costs. The purpose of the charts is to balance demand and it just wasn't working in that regard.

The foundation of DVC is for the resorts to be near 100% occupancy year-round. If the weekends are priced that much higher and occupancy falls-off dramatically, we're all in trouble. As the old saying goes, you can't put 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound box. DVC version: We can't have 80% of members trying to use their points for weekdays when the point charts only have 50-60% of the points spread over Sun - Thurs.

Selfishly I think it stinks since we have rarely used points for weekends. It will definitely cost us more per stay. But I doubt it is reason enough to sell.

[lisareniff]

Every other year we do a Beach cottage in June for a Sunday - Friday. Now with the point change it will now cost us 50 extra points - a 19% percent increase.

Plutofan, we do the same thing in Feb (Magic Season). Do you have the point chart for VB? On the 2009 Point chart a BC is 60/150 (weekday/weekend) for that time. Would I expect a 72/120 chart for 2010?

I'm bummin'.

[TreesyB]

I wonder if Disney monitors the boards. I posted on aboard about 1 1/2 hours ago that all the 2010 point charts were missing except Vero. That chart was still up. Well now that chart is now missing. Be sure to post your comments since they do read the boards....in between updating point charts and doing other things for our benefit.

Yeah, I was looking for the THV points, but the link is not underlined, and when I click on the vacation points, it just takes me to DVC advertising. Wonder what they're doing...

[tjkraz]

I haven't read all the posts but my here's my two cents...

I just bought a BLT add on for just enough points to allow me a 5 day 1 bedroom stay every third year, with banking and borrowing. I realize within the life of a contract, DVC has a right to reallocate points.

But I just bought a week ago and the resort isn't even open yet! My guide should have given me a heads up or they should allow me to buy 5 more points.

If you did just buy 7 days ago, you should be within your recission period under which the contract can be cancelled. Call your Guide in the morning and have him/her tear up the old contract and write a new one. Or just cancel altogether.

Seriously, isn't this called bait and switch?

No, because the POS states that it is a possibility.

[Bunkobeth]

Thanks Doc for the explanation...that's a little more math than this tired brain can handle right now...maybe in the morning!

:o)

[DisneyWalker44]

If they are going to change the chart for 2010 they need to have them up by 1/25/09 9 am EST since that is when 1/1/2010 can first be booked. For what it's worth, there have been many times when Disney hadn't had point charts ready when booking windows open. Happens just about every year for the Disney Collection IIRC.

[jas2n0]

I just signed and sent my paperwork back today for 189 points at BLT. At that level based on the point chart that DVC gave me 2 weeks ago I would be able to get a 1 bed room lake view Sun-Fri in choice season every year. Now I am 6 points shy. You can't tell me that the sales reps did not know that these charts were going to be changed for 2010.

I agree with the previous poster that this is bait and switch. It is making me consider using the 10-day period to rescind my purchase. Is this what I can expect from DVC going forward.....

[Sheribo]

We drive a long way to Florida every spring for one week. We always spend one night off site to save points. The points are currently double for a weekend night. I would love to be able to afford to add an extra day to our visit so it might work out for us. We have always been a Sun - Thurs DVCers. Until the charts are available again, I'm going to be anxiously biting my nails.

[tjkraz]

You can't tell me that the sales reps did not know that these charts were going to be changed for 2010.

I sincerely doubt that the Guides were aware of it. DVC rarely informs the sales staff of this sort of change to prevent the info from leaking out before it's officially released. At best there may have been a meeting toward the end of the day today. At worst many will probably get blindsided by customers in the morning.

[drusba]

It is about midnight eastern time. Don't know what is going on but announcement and all the 2010 point charts on the site are now gone.

[toocherie]

I sincerely doubt that the Guides were aware of it. DVC rarely informs the sales staff of this sort of change to prevent the info from leaking out before it's officially released. At best there may have been a meeting toward the end of the day today. At worst many will probably get blindsided by customers in the morning.

just like my Guide didn't know that letters had been sent out to Grand Californian founding members advising that sales for them would start January 25. I had to pdf a copy of the letter to him.

[glennbo123]

Someone just posted JPEG files of the point charts on this thread:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216

[ems_mom]

If you did just buy 7 days ago, you should be within your recission period under which the contract can be cancelled. Call your Guide in the morning and have him/her tear up the old contract and write a new one. Or just cancel altogether.

I am and I would, but I bought when the minimun add on was less than 100 points and I can't "write a new one" that would exactly fit my needs.

I am going to keep my BLT points because I love the location and models so much. I do wish people would not be so "black and white" about DVC. I love WDW and my DVC ownership, but that said, I believe we all have a right to express complaints without lectures.

[bwvBound]

Someone just posted JPEG files of the point charts on this thread:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216Thanks for the link. The changes, if they stick, would be helpful to us. We tend to book 7-12 consecutive nights; our present stay is 10 nights: 6 weekday nights, 4 weekend nights. If we book the very same stay next year ... we'll save 16 points using the new chart. (Of course, I have an open search running through RCI for part of next year's stay ... hoping to conserve even more points if it comes through.)

[Lynne M]

I just signed and sent my paperwork back today for 189 points at BLT. At that level based on the point chart that DVC gave me 2 weeks ago I would be able to get a 1 bed room lake view Sun-Fri in choice season every year. Now I am 6 points shy. You can't tell me that the sales reps did not know that these charts were going to be changed for 2010.

I agree with the previous poster that this is bait and switch. It is making me consider using the 10-day period to rescind my purchase. Is this what I can expect from DVC going forward.....

"Bait and switch" implies illegality. The possibility of this occurring is explained in the contract. It's entirely permissible under the contract. Nowhere in the contract does it say that the point charts are set in stone. If your guide specifically told you that the points required for your stays would never, ever change, then you have a legitimate complaint.

And yes, I certainly do believe that the sales reps didn't know this was coming. They don't get told this stuff ahead of time.

[Marshay]

Thanks for the link. The changes, if they stick, would be helpful to us. We tend to book 7-12 consecutive nights;

We do the same -- I can't imaging moving just for 2 nights and coming back -- at least not with small children, so this makes the way we travel even more reasonable.

I also imagine it will save DVC money since Member Services can just make one ressie instead of two separate ones, Front Desk just deals with folks one time, only one key to be issued, maids have less "turn-over" cleaning to do, etc, etc, etc.

Although my parents are not happy since they are strict Sun - Thurs, checkout Friday, check back in Sunday type of folks.

[HookdonWDW]

Just for comparison sake:

We've booked rooms for February vacation this year. The trip will be a full week. We booked a 2 BR at BCV for us and a 1 BR at SSR for db and family (he didn't decide that he wanted to go until well after the 7-month mark).

According to the "vanishing point charts", if we booked for the same week next year, we would save 41 points on our 2 BR at BCV, and it would cost us 1 extra point for the 1 BR at SSR...

[tjkraz]

I do wish people would not be so "black and white" about DVC. I love WDW and my DVC ownership, but that said, I believe we all have a right to express complaints without lectures.

To quote another poster: "'Bait and switch' implies illegality." I was simply pointing out that what DVC has done appears to be perfectly legal.

Elsewhere in this thread I voiced my own personal displeasure with the move and never said that you shouldn't feel similarly.

[tjkraz]

just like my Guide didn't know that letters had been sent out to Grand Californian founding members advising that sales for them would start January 25. I had to pdf a copy of the letter to him.

Bingo. ;)

[casper]

Well, this just doesn't make my day. I'm a guy who stays 8 nights in a studio arriving Thursday and check out Friday of the following week. My vacation habits will now cost me 14 more points for the year. 14 points I don't have btw.

Maybe it will be time to stay only 7 nights. Not a happy camper. Or should I say, Not a happy DVC'r.

[dis-happy]

Two guesses:

the points charts are down because someone realized that the road of change hasn't been properly paved yet. Who expects to find a new email from DVC in their inbox tomorrow morning? Bet the PR Dept. is working on it right now!


Also, there's a been an edict from corporate: all departments must cut x% from their operating budget for 2009. This is DVC's solution (cut housekeeping, Sunday overtime costs and turnover costs).

[lugnut33]

I haven't read all the posts but my here's my two cents...

I just bought a BLT add on for just enough points to allow me a 5 day 1 bedroom stay every third year, with banking and borrowing. I realize within the life of a contract, DVC has a right to reallocate points.

But I just bought a week ago and the resort isn't even open yet! My guide should have given me a heads up or they should allow me to buy 5 more points.

Seriously, isn't this called bait and switch?

A lawyer might contend that this person has not been wronged, but my sympathy goes out to the buyer in this case. Not very nice of Disney to do this.

[BeccaG]

simple, the POS says they can, up to 5 days. People have to learn the difference between legal options and hype.

Dean your memory for the details of the POS amaze me. . I read it pretty carefully and was aware that points for particular nights could and would be adjusted as needed, but for some reason the clause about the minimum stay slipped my attention and or memory (Of course that was several years ago and its not like I flip through it regularly at bedtime! :rotfl: Although, now that I am thinking about it, it might be a good idea!) To be honest, a minimum stay would be a bigger disappointment to me than the "new" disappearing point charts.

I think I echo a lot of people's sentiments when I say that the whole thing is just disappointing. Its not illegal or immoral, it just feels unfair. Most of us probably purchased DVC because ultimately we believe in the Disney magic. Things like this change that are radical shifts from what we are use to, and seem to come without warning, challenge that magical aura.

[lugnut33]

OK, we are doing a late August trip in a SSR 2 bedroom this year for a bunch of family members and staying sun-fri. That same trip in 2010 would cost 25 more points. :crazy2:

I am sooo sooo sooo glad I bought a little contract on the resale market, that way I won't feel too bad if things don't work out between us and DVC. Also lucky that the main purpose for buying the contract was to take a week long trip every other year and stay in a one bedroom and that point requirement hasn't changed. Plus I have a 16 point cushion so they can mess with it a bit.

[tidefan]

Boy, I was more on target than I thought! I posted this back in June 08 on the mega-thread about the change in the reservation windows:

Re: New policy for reservations based on check IN date

06-25-2008
Post #944

The more I read through this thread, the more that I think that a point reallocation may be the best solution. If so many members want to go over Christmas and New Years that there is a very skewed demand for the rooms, then simple economics dictates that they may need to rearrange point levels to get the demand evened back out over the year.

Additionally, if the speculation on this board is true that more members go Sun-Thurs instead of over weekends and DVC sees that increasing trend, then the obvious solution to that would be to decrease weekend points somewhat and increase weekday points.

I don't know that this is what some members would want, but in creating the apparent mass demand for certain times/certain places, membership may very well be driving a change like this.

The problem is that if there are too many members only booking Sun-Thurs stays and not booking weekend stays, then members face the real possibility of being shut out on reservations. I'm not saying that I don't understand some members frustration over this, but I understand the move. We bought based upon what we would need for a week long stay, give or take a few points, so we are OK with this. I have a bigger problem with 100 point minimum add-ons...

[kristenrice]

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

We have a 100 point contract. We need(ed) 205 points to take our kids and parents to AKV in a 2BR standard for spring break 2010. This was planned since we bought into DVC back in September. It was going to be our first trip home. DH and I then realized that instead of banking 2009 points, we could take a trip on 95 of those, bank 5, then use ALL of 2010 and ALL of 2011 to take the spring break trip.

Well, now that we have a 95-point trip planned for June 2009, with non-refundable airfare, DVC takes our plans and flushes them down the toilet!:sad: We will not have enough points to take my parents along in 2010 since it will now cost 230 points. The ONLY way this can happen is IF we are able to get a studio in June (there are waitlists for some already) instead of our 1BR.

I know that DVC didn't do anything illegal, but for something that once made me so excited to think about, it now makes me want to vomit. All those plans, the look on my dad's face when we told him we were taking him to Disney World.... all those things that make DVC ownership so special...all reduced to a big pile of poo in a blink of an eye.

I would have been much less upset if they had decided to announce the change now, but not implement it until 2011. That way, I could have banked my points instead of using them. Now, I have to pray that a studio will be available for June or I am out about $700 in non-refundable airfare because I am not telling my parents that we can no longer afford to take them.:crazy2:

[eyeheartgoofy]

I would have been much less upset if they had decided to announce the change now, but not implement it until 2011.

Yep, that is what I'm thinking as well. Less than a week ago, I borrowed 4 points from my 2010 UY in order to book August 09 at AKV. Guess what? I no longer have enough points to spend 5 nights in a studio at VWL during Spring Break 2010 b/c Sun-Thur nights went up 2 points per night ... and I thought I managed my points so well.:rolleyes:

[GILL-WDW]

Did anyone happen to grab the VWL point charts before they took them down. Sorry... I have not read all 210 post!!!

If you did would you please PM me.

Thanks

[AnnaS]

If the point chart stays, I am sure sooner or later it will most likely affect many people since I don't think (it's possible) one will vacation exactly the same way year after year (for those that have a lot of points or usually bank, no biggie).

When we bought, we more or less calculated a week in a 1 BDR at OKW (have added a few times since then) Dream Season which was 196 - we like to round everything off and have a small cushion. We bought 200 - exactly what would be needed now. (We would have rounded off even if it came out to 192, 187, etc.).

We always felft that anyone buying and definitely more so for anyone buying in the future, to always give themself a cushion - more because our plans will most likely change - but now DVC has just changed it for all of us (which we knew could happen).

Wether or not we (us) like it, our vacation pattern, # of people, is never the same so we will work with our points, time and as finances allow us as usual. Our add-ons are also just an even number and not an exact for so many nights.

If the chart does go into effect - I feel and understand what everyone is saying who will be a few points short.

Waiting to see how all this pans out since the chart seems to be gone.

[bookwormde]

Still looking for a link to the thread that had how many of each size and type (with a different point count) of room is at each resort so I can check the total point before and after.

I know there was one report that just before the links were taken down that the dates within some of the seasons were changed (Presidents week was added to Premier) did anyone else see this or print this out or get a PDF

One the issue of guides not providing accurate information on sales; while the contractual language protects the integrity of the contract it does not insulate the salesperson or DVC from legal charges of deceptive sales practices if a pattern can be established. All the laws in this area have disallowed the “It is in the fine print” defense since it was abused so badly.

Is anyone else getting tired of the PR spin DVC is put on announcements which to anyone who is informed are clearly not the truth. Of course that goes along with the free ticket promotion that only a small percentage are using since it had little value and instead are using the gift card (promote for 1 thing and make the rules such that only something else is the reasonable value)

bookwormde

[appleorchard]

This is a positive thing for us, since it's hard for me to take vacation days during the week and the high weekend points have been such a detriment to staying on a weekend day. We've been splitting time between SOG and DVC, with weekends at SOG, which brings its own set of problems.
I've been hoping they'd even out the points for a long time, but I understand how it impacts people who are able to do Sun-Thursday trips. I can't wait to be one of them, but it won't happen until I can retire, since I jobshare and my partner rarely takes any time off.
Since the charts are gone, maybe they've had second thoughts, anyway...

[JMLBrats]

Now that I think about it, I seem to remember our guide saying that the points needed for a week stay would never change, but that it was possible for the points within that week stay to change should Disney ever decide to do so. Oh well, I guess we'll see what comes of this.

[lisareniff]

Boy, I was more on target than I thought! I posted this back in June 08 on the mega-thread about the change in the reservation windows:

The problem is that if there are too many members only booking Sun-Thurs stays and not booking weekend stays, then members face the real possibility of being shut out on reservations. I'm not saying that I don't understand some members frustration over this, but I understand the move. We bought based upon what we would need for a week long stay, give or take a few points, so we are OK with this. I have a bigger problem with 100 point minimum add-ons...

WHat a call Tidefan!! I think you got it right.

I am surprised that more people seem to be upset about this then the waitlist change. To me that seems just as huge.

[alldiz]

Well this is a lose/lose situation for me and Disney.....for my family.

I utilized the Sun-thurs Stays....it allowed me to go to WDW MORE.....and spend more money.

Now I will have to cut back my trips.....which will mean less money for Disney in the long run.
Also that second add-on.....dosen't sound so magical anymore.

Very unhappy here....
Kerri

[jas2n0]

My frustration is that you are provided information to help you make an informed decision, and a week after making that decision based on the material provided, everything changes. I do understand that DVC has the right to make these changes and they are not illegal, however I am sure that decisions on these types of changes don't happen overnight. If DVC was considering redistributing the points for all resorts, these changes should have been taken into account in the original BLT point charts so it would not have impacted people deciding on add-ons and new contracts.

If this change happened a few years after BLT opened then I would not be complaining, it is always a possibility and you need to consider that when becoming a member. However is this case, it seems too much of a coincidence that the change is announced only days after they complete a big push with incentives, to increase sales for AKV and BLT.

[photobob]

The 2010 points charts are still down. I'd really like to get a look at them.

[DebbieB]

The 2010 points charts are still down. I'd really like to get a look at them.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216

[AnnaS]

I don't know how to do the link thingy but someone has them on another thread in the misc. board. I think they are also here - a few pages back.

Jpg something - sorry not much help.

[AnnaS]

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216



Thanks Debbie :)

[tvwalsh]

Does the quick pulling of the point charts remind anyone else of the disappearing early pictures of the BLT DVC?

[cinderella97]

This is really bad news for us. With the kids in school we can only go at Easter or Christmas. We have 200 points at BCV and purposely bought that many so we could stay 5 nights S-TH it would cost us 200 points - that same stay is now 230 points! OUCH!!!!! Now I don't know what to do,

[Starr W.]

Still looking for a link to the thread that had how many of each size and type (with a different point count) of room is at each resort so I can check the total point before and after.

I know there was one report that just before the links were taken down that the dates within some of the seasons were changed (Presidents week was added to Premier) did anyone else see this or print this out or get a PDF

One the issue of guides not providing accurate information on sales; while the contractual language protects the integrity of the contract it does not insulate the salesperson or DVC from legal charges of deceptive sales practices if a pattern can be established. All the laws in this area have disallowed the “It is in the fine print” defense since it was abused so badly.

Is anyone else getting tired of the PR spin DVC is put on announcements which to anyone who is informed are clearly not the truth. Of course that goes along with the free ticket promotion that only a small percentage are using since it had little value and instead are using the gift card (promote for 1 thing and make the rules such that only something else is the reasonable value)

bookwormde


The only things DH and I memorized before the point charts went poof, was VB 2br Premier season. It went from 447 to 450. SSR Friday b4 Thanksgiving-Black Friday 2br points stayed the same.

Our MLK trip Thurs-Mon BWV/BCV/VWL 2br went down from 180 to high 160's.

Didn't get a chance to see what they did to HHI, because those Saturday night points there were :crazy2: .

[WolfpackFan]

I am really disappointed in this change. This really hurts people who have a finite number of points and purchased those points thinking they would stay 5-6 nights at specific resorts during specific times. For example we have enough points to stay 5 nights the first week of June at HHI in a 1BR alternating every other year in a Studio. Well all of a sudden beginning in 2010 we no longer have enough points to do this. We had similar scenarios setup for our other two contracts and they are no longer doable either. Thank you DVC for nothing.

You know what is behind this - DVC sees there are a number of folks in similar situations like us and they thought well if we make these changes this will force those people to do additional add-ons. Well I can tell you now DVC will not be getting anymore of money in add-ons. We'll just reduce are stays, those costing WDW more money that we won't spend in meals, tickets, souvenirs, etc. In fact, I may even just sell my contracts and purchase a Marriott timeshare.

This really makes me very upset :sad2:.

[Inkmahm]

Does the quick pulling of the point charts remind anyone else of the disappearing early pictures of the BLT DVC?

Exactly! Someone jumped the gun on the announcement.

As I posted in the jpg thread with the charts, it is to our favor to have the points charts changed only because we stay Friday and Saturday nights when we travel to WDW. I calculated our 2008, 2009 and 2010 vacations using the new charts. Compared to the old charts, we save 10, 14 and 12 points, respectively. So for us, an average of 12 points saved per year while using our 530 points is a good thing.

I can see where those that didn't stay on weekends would be less pleased. And the early December rates don't seem to be quite the bargain that they were before, either.

[glennbo123]

I just noticed that with the 2010 point charts there is even more of a disparity between weekday and weekend points in a Grand Villa, at AKV at least. They reduced the weekdays and increased the weekends. This is completely opposite from what they're doing for the other sized villas.

:confused3

[Inkmahm]

The only things DH and I memorized before the point charts went poof, was VB 2br Premier season. It went from 447 to 450. SSR Friday b4 Thanksgiving-Black Friday 2br points stayed the same.

Our MLK trip Thurs-Mon BWV/BCV/VWL 2br went down from 180 to high 160's.

Didn't get a chance to see what they did to HHI, because those Saturday night points there were :crazy2: .Charts are still here!http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216

[eyeheartgoofy]

I love WDW and my DVC ownership, but that said, I believe we all have a right to express complaints without lectures.

Ha! Don't you know that any complaints about DVC will warrant at least one lecture?

Was your room not cleaned properly, or did you have a broken piece of equipment in your room? Your fault for not personally making camp in the lobby for 3 hours waiting for a manager to come and fix the problem.

Were you disappointed in your room location? Your fault. Every member understands that requests are just requests ... no disappointment allowed.

Did you have a question about DVC financing? Fool. Everyone knows if you don't pay cash for DVC, then you can't afford it and need to go back to the HoJo.

Did a family member back out of a DVC vacation and your stuck with points in holding? Your fault. Everyone knows you don't invite family or friends to use your DVC points.

And, of course now, ... not enough points to book the same stay you have been booking for the past 5 years? Just close on a contract that is a few points shy of meeting your needs? Your fault b/c you should have purchased a point cushion.

Can't get into your home resort 9 months out? Your fault. Everyone knows you have to book at 9:00am exactly 11 months out.

Hurricane put a damper on your plans at DVC? Your fault. Everyone knows you don't book during hurricane season, or hurricane shoulder seasons.

[Starr W.]

Charts are still here!http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2067216

Thanks, I missed that someone was quick on the draw and saved the charts.

[dzorn]

The 2009 and 2010 Point Charts are posted on the member website.

Don't feel bad I cannot find it either. I was even lookin' for the 2010 before I went to the Dis. I go clear my cookies and see if that helps because the only thing I pull up is 2009.

Denise in MI

[december14disney]

I am really disappointed in this change. This really hurts people who have a finite number of points and purchased those points thinking they would stay 5-6 nights at specific resorts during specific times. For example we have enough points to stay 5 nights the first week of June at HHI in a 1BR alternating every other year in a Studio. Well all of a sudden beginning in 2010 we no longer have enough points to do this. We had similar scenarios setup for our other two contracts and they are no longer doable either. Thank you DVC for nothing.

You know what is behind this - DVC sees there are a number of folks in similar situations like us and they thought well if we make these changes this will force those people to do additional add-ons. Well I can tell you now DVC will not be getting anymore of money in add-ons. We'll just reduce are stays, those costing WDW more money that we won't spend in meals, tickets, souvenirs, etc. In fact, I may even just sell my contracts and purchase a Marriott timeshare.

This really makes me very upset :sad2:.

I agree with this 100%. Disney saw the flooding of smaller resales contracts on the market and needed o do something about it. And this is what they did. Fiance and I planned to do 3 trips a year with our points. Flower and Garden, MNSSHP and MVMCP. Cant now. Per week is too expensive.

Also---dont tell me raising ALL savanna view room points and then telling me "well the values went down in points" is fair. Apples to oranges is what that is.

[logan115]

Given the additional points that some people will now need, I wonder if DVC will make any kind of exceptions for allowing additional point transfers or banking/borrowing for the next year or two ? Haven't bought DVC yet (not as sure that I will now either), and certainly don't know the ins and outs as well as others here, but would think that DVC would have to allow people that have already the points they THOUGHT they needed already a chance to transfer in additional points based on a hgher amount of points needed now.

Also feels a bit like a game of chicken that DVC is playing as well. The amount of resales on the market now seem to be much higher than normal (good for me as I'd buy in thru resale if at all), and DVC has two choices : let the resales keep going at lower prices (supply and demand), or buy them back via ROFR (cash out of their pocket). Maybe they're also betting that current owners will snap up some of the resale contracts, increasing prices, and closing the spread between resale and buying direct thru DVC ?

Only time will tell.

Chris

[glennbo123]

I just noticed that with the 2010 point charts there is even more of a disparity between weekday and weekend points in a Grand Villa, at AKV at least. They reduced the weekdays and increased the weekends. This is completely opposite from what they're doing for the other sized villas.

:confused3

Pardon me for responding to my own post!

On the AKV point charts, it looks like all of the weekday points are about 66-67% of the weekend point requirements, including a Grand Villa. So, that's the direction the Grand Villa change had to go in order to make it consistent.

[erionm]

Don't feel bad I cannot find it either. I was even lookin' for the 2010 before I went to the Dis. I go clear my cookies and see if that helps because the only thing I pull up is 2009.

Denise in MI

The 2010 Point Charts were pulled down around 8pm last night.

[dis-happy]

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

We have a 100 point contract. We need(ed) 205 points to take our kids and parents to AKV in a 2BR standard for spring break 2010. This was planned since we bought into DVC back in September. It was going to be our first trip home. DH and I then realized that instead of banking 2009 points, we could take a trip on 95 of those, bank 5, then use ALL of 2010 and ALL of 2011 to take the spring break trip.

Well, now that we have a 95-point trip planned for June 2009, with non-refundable airfare, DVC takes our plans and flushes them down the toilet!:sad: We will not have enough points to take my parents along in 2010 since it will now cost 230 points. The ONLY way this can happen is IF we are able to get a studio in June (there are waitlists for some already) instead of our 1BR.

I know that DVC didn't do anything illegal, but for something that once made me so excited to think about, it now makes me want to vomit. All those plans, the look on my dad's face when we told him we were taking him to Disney World.... all those things that make DVC ownership so special...all reduced to a big pile of poo in a blink of an eye.

I would have been much less upset if they had decided to announce the change now, but not implement it until 2011. That way, I could have banked my points instead of using them. Now, I have to pray that a studio will be available for June or I am out about $700 in non-refundable airfare because I am not telling my parents that we can no longer afford to take them.:crazy2:


You can spend closer to $300., rent 30 points from someone, and have them transferred into your account for that one time. I've done that to complete a reservation on our small contract during a high demand time.

[dis-happy]

Someone posted the plus/minus points differences for AKV and one thing that stuck out to me:

nearly 100% of the time, it's the 1 b/r reservation that will pay more in points, whether by the weekday, the week, or the season. Wonder if they are planning to add more sleeper chairs in the 1 b/r's, making them all easier to sleep 5, and now are punishing us for that ability.

[Inkmahm]

I agree with this 100%. Disney saw the flooding of smaller resales contracts on the market and needed o do something about it. And this is what they did. Fiance and I planned to do 3 trips a year with our points. Flower and Garden, MNSSHP and MVMCP. Cant now. Per week is too expensive.

Also---dont tell me raising ALL savanna view room points and then telling me "well the values went down in points" is fair. Apples to oranges is what that is.

We do those exact 3 trips each year and will be saving an average of 12 points per year with the new charts. We stay weekends though and not full weeks.

[Inkmahm]

You can spend closer to $300., rent 30 points from someone, and have them transferred into your account for that one time. I've done that to complete a reservation on our small contract during a high demand time.

Me, too. To have enough points for a big family gathering I had 120 points transferred to me a couple years ago. Transfers work great for the times when you need extra points for a single year but don't need them for future years (where an add on would make more sense.)

[aurorafan]

Well, it will work out better for us if we take the Jan. 2010 trip we just started talking about last night. The kids have 2 teacher workdays at the end of the month, so we were thinking about going down Thurs. afternoon and leaving Tues. morning. The trip with the 2010 charts is 108 for a value 1-bdrm. AKV, or 154/1 bdrm. SV (the kids really want SV ;)). With the 2009 charts it would have been 112/1 bdrm. value or 159 1 bdrm. SV.

However our Dec. Sun.-Thurs. trip we just took was 80 pts. 1 bdrm. value and would be 90 pts. under the 2010 charts, so I see why people are upset. I guess it's fortunate that DH and I never sat down and decided on a specific unit at a specific resort at a specific time of year. We bought what we could afford at the time (160 AKV) and planned to add on in round numbers thereafter. We quickly discovered that we probably aren't going to take a specific vacation at a specific time, so this change isn't all bad for us. In fact, personally I wasn't looking forward to having to take our week long vacation in the summer--I prefer trying to work in long weekends when it's cooler and less crowded. But those were not as practical for us given our small number of points--now they will be more within our reach :).

I do feel for those who bought with the specifics in mind though, and now find themselves with not enough points. Hopefully they won't up the minimum add-on anywhere else besides BLT!

[Doctor P]

OK. I'm not sure how I feel about this (proposed?) change overall. I can tell you, however, how the reservation I made this week and the reservation I plan to make next week would have been different if all of it were to be under the new system:

2 Studios at BCV for Saturday December 19, 2009: 46 (old); 40 (new)
1 Studio, 1 2BR at OKW for Dec. 20-26: 320 (old); 327 (new)
Ultimate intended: 1 Studio, 1 2BR at OKW Dec. 19-26: 397 (old); 389 (new)

HH: 2BR December 26-January 4: 235 (old); 231(new)

However, if the chart changes for 2010, because of the way the dates fall for New Years Day, I could benefit a little for my NY reservation.

Under the old system, my HH reservation would cost 235 points. In this transition year, the reservation would only cost 226 points due to the lower cost of the weekend dates in January.

So, on balance since we normally check in on Saturdays and stay a week or so, the changes will generally be very minimal for us. This, I know, will not be true for a lot of other people.