Rumor Alert: ADR's [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

wdwowner

01-19-2009, 08:34 AM

"WDWAnswerGuide Rumors Suggest Credit Card Guarantee is Coming for Dining Reservations" http://www.wdwanswerguide.com

From Twitter

Now THIS would be awesome!!!!!:cool1:
Way past due!

SamSam

01-19-2009, 08:42 AM

I agree! This would definitely be a huge help in solving the multiple booking and the no show problems.

Jennygt

01-19-2009, 08:43 AM

That would be ok with me. I never double/overbooked anyway.

Jennygt

01-19-2009, 08:44 AM

I bet that this will make walk ups more available now as well for people who don't like to be so planned out.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 08:44 AM

I agree! This would definitely be a huge help in solving the multiple booking and the no show problems.

Cool until some day you're at the Magic Kingdom and realize you have an ADR at Jiko's in 10 minutes. :drive: :drive:

aaronmckie

01-19-2009, 09:05 AM

I hope this rumor is true, that would help a TON!
I doubt it will happen, though, I see this ticking off waaaay too many people.

wdwowner

01-19-2009, 09:29 AM

Cool until some day you're at the Magic Kingdom and realize you have an ADR at Jiko's in 10 minutes. :drive: :drive:

If they are at the MK and they have an ADR somewhere else, then they should have planned better. That is only their fault, they made an ADR, They picked the time and location, no one's problem except them.

It is called planning, that is why they made an ADR. Don't waste it or not allow others to dine there if they really did not want it.
:thumbsup2

WebmasterPete

01-19-2009, 11:48 AM

If they are at the MK and they have an ADR somewhere else, then they should have planned better. That is only their fault, they made an ADR, They picked the time and location, no one's problem except them.

It is called planning, that is why they made an ADR. Don't waste it or not allow others to dine there if they really did not want it.
:thumbsup2

I am SOOO with you on this one - I think it's long overdue and can't figure out why they haven't done it before. As for backlash, yeah - there will be some, but I think those of us who are fed up with not being able to get an ADR because somone else has 12 of them will compensate for it. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be a pretty vocal proponent of the policy.

Pete

Flametamr

01-19-2009, 11:56 AM

I agree with this 100pct. I posted this idea before and got slammed with rude comments. It seems some people think its their right to abuse the system for their own convience. I had one person tell me that they make ADRs at each park in different names so they can be flexible and saw nothing wrong with it. They claimed that Disney encourages such behavior by requiring ADRs in the first place.

robind

01-19-2009, 12:07 PM

IWISHFORDISNEY

01-19-2009, 12:09 PM

It is way past due to make some type penalty for double booking and no shows. I think it will free up some ressies for those of us who never do this sort of thing. It is so easy to cancel a ressie I dont understand the whole no show thing. I never knew people double booked until I started reading the boards; it never occured to me to ever do this. I will be happy to embrace such a change.

daneenm

01-19-2009, 12:24 PM

mooneyda

01-19-2009, 12:29 PM

I guess for me who researches where we want to eat on the trips. I do not have a problem with holding a reservation with a cc

BriarRosie

01-19-2009, 12:33 PM

I thought it was a good idea with the more popular venues already, like the princess meals and California Grill, so I'm all for this change, if or when it happens.

selina4disney

01-19-2009, 12:36 PM

I think it is a brilliant idea! Overdue!

karen l

01-19-2009, 12:50 PM

I think it is a brilliant idea! Overdue!

Well said- it is overdue!

sshaw10060

01-19-2009, 01:07 PM

ExBellhop

01-19-2009, 01:10 PM

As for backlash, yeah - there will be some

If Disney can survive the backlash from removing Mr Toad, then they can make it though this :)

ExBellhop

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 01:10 PM

Cool until some day you're at the Magic Kingdom and realize you have an ADR at Jiko's in 10 minutes. :drive: :drive:

Then get on your cell and call them to say your gone to be late. I bet they will be flexible with cancellations and not be quick to charge for late cancels.

DVCsince02

01-19-2009, 01:13 PM

I think this is way overdue as long as they don't charge you ahead of time like CRT.

Iggipolka

01-19-2009, 01:19 PM

I think it's a good idea as well, but I do hope that there is some flexibility with the cancellation time.

On our recent past trip, we canceled a few ADR's within a couple hours of our ADR time and made new ones at the same time. Some of it was because my DW was sick with a horrible cold and wasn't into eating much, and one cancellation was because time just simply got away from us and we didn't have enough travel some to get to the restaurant.

I have no problem being charged for a complete no-call/no-show, but if someone calls to cancel the ADR, I hope that Disney won't charge.

BarbieGal457

01-19-2009, 01:22 PM

I agree it makes sense, but the timing of the cancellations will be important. We were down last week and had ADR's for 5 of the 6 nights. The night we were heading to Citricos my wife wasn't feeling great, so I called an hour before the reservation time to cancel. I would not have taken it very well if we were charged a penalty for having to cancel. I am perfectly OK that no-shows be charged.

- Scott

I agree. I'm always one to cancel ADRs ASAP, but two weeks ago I woke up and was sick the entire day. We had an ADR at WCC for 1:40, and at about 1:00 I remembered it (food wasn't exactly foremost in my mind as I hovered in the bathroom!) and called to cancel. I am definitely all for an idea such as this!

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 01:31 PM

I agree. I'm always one to cancel ADRs ASAP, but two weeks ago I woke up and was sick the entire day. We had an ADR at WCC for 1:40, and at about 1:00 I remembered it (food wasn't exactly foremost in my mind as I hovered in the bathroom!) and called to cancel. I am definitely all for an idea such as this!

I was able to cancel a pre charged ADR (Fantasmic package) the day off the meal when I was sick. They advertise 48 hour cancellation, but I think they are flexible for issues that may arise.

SplashMom

01-19-2009, 02:03 PM

I like this idea as well. I have never made an ADR and not shown up. I did cancel once but it was more than 48 hours in advance.

The only issue I have is that some restaurants have quite a wait even when you have an ADR. If everyone starts showing up, the wait may be longer. As long as Disney takes this into consideration, it should be fine. There will likely be a few less ADR times available to ensure a reasonable wait. If you are required to comfirm with a CC, then there will be very few no shows and hopefully it won't cause us a longer wait.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 02:09 PM

If they are at the MK and they have an ADR somewhere else, then they should have planned better. That is only their fault, they made an ADR, They picked the time and location, no one's problem except them.

It is called planning, that is why they made an ADR. Don't waste it or not allow others to dine there if they really did not want it.
:thumbsup2

Yeah, well the best laid plans of mice and men... You know the story. No matter how much you plan, sometimes things happen.

I could see somebody waiting for their teenage kids by Main Street Station and waiting, and waiting, and then having a massive blowup on the kids because they just got chaged for their ADR.

FirstTimeDisneyDad

01-19-2009, 02:19 PM

I hope that you can provide your CC # just once for a series of ADR's - otherwise that is going to be a long phone call to go through it multiple times...

UrsulasShadow

01-19-2009, 02:21 PM

Yeah, well the best laid plans of mice and men... You know the story. No matter how much you plan, sometimes things happen.

I could see somebody waiting for their teenage kids by Main Street Station and waiting, and waiting, and then having a massive blowup on the kids because they just got chaged for their ADR.

That's part of having kids, I'm afraid...taking responsibility for their idiocy. I have them...I know. And if it was a matter of my kids' misbehavior making me miss an ADR, I wouldn't blame WDW, I'd blame my kids, and my poor planning.

I love the idea of a CC hold, as long as there is a reasonable cancellation period, and flexibility in the case of illness. Disney is usually more than accommodating.

wdwowner

01-19-2009, 02:23 PM

I hope that you can provide your CC # just once for a series of ADR's - otherwise that is going to be a long phone call to go through it multiple times...

Remember, they said the 'On Line' ADR's are coming soon.
Who needs to talk to anyone anymore?!?:thumbsup2

chicagoshannon

01-19-2009, 02:28 PM

I think it's a great idea as long as it gaurantee's me no more then a 10-25 minutes wait. If I have to put my CC down I don't want to wait an hour to get seated.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 02:36 PM

I think it's a great idea as long as it gaurantee's me no more then a 10-25 minutes wait. If I have to put my CC down I don't want to wait an hour to get seated.

Let's say you do wait an hour and decide to leave, you willing to take the ding on the cancellation?

I do understand that something has to be done with people making multiple ressies, but I'm not sure this would be a good thing.

And it's not just teenagers that are late, it could be your parents.

UrsulasShadow

01-19-2009, 02:59 PM

And it's not just teenagers that are late, it could be your parents.

Concept is the same. If you can't be responsible for your party's actions, don't make the reservations for them.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 03:04 PM

Concept is the same. If you can't be responsible for your party's actions, don't make the reservations for them.

OK, which perfect world do you live in?

corky441

01-19-2009, 03:13 PM

Oh how I hope this isn't just a rumor.

During our last visit this past December, my DH & I were having lunch at the Crystal Palace. since the tables are relatively close to each other we couldn't help but overhear the conversation at the table next to us. Two couples were reviewing their plans for that evening's dinner and the following days meals. Between the 4 of them, they had 6 different ADRs for dinner that night, 4 ADRs for breakfast the following day and again for dinner.

I also judged from the conversation, that they had no intention of cancelling anything before hand. :mad:

UrsulasShadow

01-19-2009, 03:16 PM

OK, which perfect world do you live in?

Stuff happens. You can't control everything. I get that.

But you can't expect WDW to be responsible for things that happen to YOU. It's not their fault your teens go wandering, or your parents get distracted. You are responsible for YOUR end of it, they are responsible for THEIR end.

aaronmckie

01-19-2009, 03:18 PM

OK, which perfect world do you live in?

It's not really a matter of being in a perfect world, just being more responsible about making reservations. I'd akin it to making hotel room reservations, you are taking a space that someone else could get; please make a good effort to use it.

757hokie

01-19-2009, 03:21 PM

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 03:30 PM

Stuff happens. You can't control everything. I get that.

But you can't expect WDW to be responsible for things that happen to YOU. It's not their fault your teens go wandering, or your parents get distracted. You are responsible for YOUR end of it, they are responsible for THEIR end.

And when Disney screws something up, we generally don't get money out of them do we? That's what I have a problem with, they'll be taking money for missed ressies.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 03:33 PM

It's not really a matter of being in a perfect world, just being more responsible about making reservations. I'd akin it to making hotel room reservations, you are taking a space that someone else could get; please make a good effort to use it.

And I agree with you on that subject, if you make them use them. However, as I pointed out above I don't like being fined for not arriving. Will I need a doctor's note or a signed excuse from the bus driver for being late?

And personally, I havn't had that bad of a problem getting ADRs, then again we go in August.

757hokie

01-19-2009, 03:33 PM

I can definitely get behind this.

One thought though...how would it impact DDP?

I guess if CC is used only to "hold" the ADR and no charge is actually put on the card, no big deal. Or maybe a $1 charge that gets credited back once you show? (even better...would scare those making multiples once they see it on their CC statement!!!)

Not sure of the mechanics, but I like it...I couldn't believe the trouble I had making ADRs for anywhere two months before my early December trip! I have no doubt it was due in part to people making multiple ADRs for the same night. We ended up with one at Chefs de France at 8:30 and still had to wait 1:15 after ADR time to be seated.

Hopefully this will help weed out the inconsiderate ones...

757hokie

01-19-2009, 03:36 PM

jcb

01-19-2009, 03:52 PM

Until I heard about this practice on the podcast, it never dawned on me to make multiple reservations for the same mealtime. Call me naive.

I can't imagine the solution is worse than the problem. Anyone who feels they were improperly charged for a "no show" should simply take it up with their cc company by disputing the charge. Those who want "dining flexibility" should pay for the inconvenience it causes others.

Other alternatives have hassles. Verifying ADR's against name and room numbers won't work for the offsite guests. Verifying against KTTW numbers is ineffective for resort dining by non-ticketed guests and is essentially the same as taking a cc anyway.

I am curious. I "no showed" on an EPCOT restaurant one time when it started raining. I was at FW and really didn't want to pay to have an expensive dinner at Restaurant Marakesh while I was soaking wet. I tried canceling (WDW Dine is permanently in my contacts) but when I called, I was told they don't take cancellations. So how does one cancel?

jcb

01-19-2009, 03:59 PM

We ended up with one at Chefs de France at 8:30 and still had to wait 1:15 after ADR time to be seated.

You must have been there the same night we were! They said they were "having computer problems."

wdwowner

01-19-2009, 04:12 PM

I am SOOO with you on this one - I think it's long overdue and can't figure out why they haven't done it before. As for backlash, yeah - there will be some, but I think those of us who are fed up with not being able to get an ADR because somone else has 12 of them will compensate for it. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be a pretty vocal proponent of the policy.

Pete

Pete, a suggestion topic for the podcast.
Should Disney change their ADR's policy to allow WDW hotel guests to make ADR's before non-WDW hotel guests?

How is this: People staying on property can make ADR's at 90 days before they arrive. Those not staying on property can make ADR's 30 days before that date.

This would be one heck of a perk for staying on property, rewarding us for staying at Disney hotels. Those who don't stay on property still can make ADR's. This is not a bad thing for Disney, they can still get all of the dining full, but this would make the Dining plans really worth it for people. They should not be shut out of a ADR just because someone who is not staying on property has taken all of the ressies.

Whatcha think?:confused3

Pitti-sing

01-19-2009, 04:37 PM

There was a thread about this last year http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1791572&page=1&highlight=

and I think the policy has been in place for some time, so that it could be used if they chose to enforce it. And, maybe they finally have.

But, in my experience, you almost never "get" the people you mean to "get". Those people always seem to find a way around. :rolleyes:

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 05:13 PM

I'm guessing like other popular places outside of Disney, a CC hold doesn't mean they are going to charge you the second your table is ready to be set. I have given my CC number for many places, if something comes up, you call and explain it and they deal with each person as the problem arises. What this WILL help is people that will and do make several ressies, sure they can call and cancel them ones they don't use, but it will deter them since its work to call and cancel everything you miss. Also, disney will see the people that are putting this plan into effect. Like anything, including the present system, there will be problems. But I'll take the problems with a CC hold system of the present system any day.

msce2

01-19-2009, 05:15 PM

(Step on soap box) I think there are some BIG questions about this. What kind of hold would you put on the credit card? I've seen some people drop 100's on a meal. This would be unfair to people who would not spend this kind of money. Would you charge per person? What if it was a party of 10 or a party of 2. Would it be different for every restaurant? Also how much would you then charge if they missed the ADR? I think you also price out people who do not have huge limits on their credit cards or people who only pay cash. You could get into an issue where if people have to cancel their ADR's it can take 30+ days for that hold to be removed from their credit card making that amount unusable. And people who have lots of money may not have that issue, but I can't tell you how many people I talked to who were affected by these exact types of holds. I think there's got to be a better way to do this. (Step off soap box)

H20DogsNDisney

01-19-2009, 05:16 PM

I would be fine with it! I think it is about time.

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 05:32 PM

UrsulasShadow

01-19-2009, 05:51 PM

And when Disney screws something up, we generally don't get money out of them do we? That's what I have a problem with, they'll be taking money for missed ressies.

Actually, there's lots of anecdotal evidence that when Disney screws something up, they very often go above and beyond to make it right.

What they're doing is insuring a contract. They'll hold you a place in their restaurant, you'll guarantee your stated attendance with a monetary hold.

Iggipolka

01-19-2009, 05:53 PM

msce2

01-19-2009, 05:54 PM

Let me preface this by saying that I worked for a credit card company. Putting holds on credit cards is very typical. Any time you pump gas they put a hold on your card. Sometimes as much as $200. Well if you fill up 2x a week, that can add up to a lot of money on hold. I can't tell you how many phone calls I got with people unable to use their credit card because of holds that put them at or above the limit. If you have high credit limits and don't carry balances this will not affect you, but if you are a lower to middle class family trying to fit in a once in a lifetime or once in 10 years vacation it could really affect you.

crazytp93

01-19-2009, 05:57 PM

A great idea and long overdue!

DVCJones

01-19-2009, 06:30 PM

I like this idea as well, however, I'd be interested in what the cancellation policy would be. I know for Candlelight it's 48 hours. My only concern would be how they would handle circumstances beyond your control. Since they are disney, I think they would be flexible. I know I've had several "no show" charges at various hotels because I've been stuck in airports and can't get there. In most cases they were understanding but in some cases - they weren't.

I also do not think it will eliminate the problem completely, you can still make multiple reservations, as long as you cancel them before you would get charged for the no-show. However, I do think it would greatly reduce the problem, as most people wouldn't want to keep up w/ it.

I mostly like the idea, However, I hope the have a policy in place if you need to cancel on the same day your reservation. Just for the record... I always make my reservations 180 days out, I never over book and always show up for my ressie. However, on our last trip we had to leave the Magic Kingdom after only 2 hrs because my 2yo spiked a fever and complained of ear pain. We went to Celebration Hospital and spent 6 hours there. Needless to say, we missed our ADR. I would hate to charged in this situation.

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 06:36 PM

I mostly like the idea, However, I hope the have a policy in place if you need to cancel on the same day your reservation is. Just for the record... I always make my reservations 180 days out, I never over book and always show up for my ressie. However, on our last trip we had to leave the Magic Kingdom after only 2 hrs because my 2yo spiked a fever and complained of ear pain. We went to Celebration Hospital and spent 6 hours there. Needless to say, we missed our ADR. I would hate to charged in this situation.

Let me preface this by saying that I worked for a credit card company. Putting holds on credit cards is very typical. Any time you pump gas they put a hold on your card. Sometimes as much as $200. Well if you fill up 2x a week, that can add up to a lot of money on hold. I can't tell you how many phone calls I got with people unable to use their credit card because of holds that put them at or above the limit. If you have high credit limits and don't carry balances this will not affect you, but if you are a lower to middle class family trying to fit in a once in a lifetime or once in 10 years vacation it could really affect you.

Like I said, if its like other places, they don't even put a hold. They just keep your card on file in case you don't show up.

Also, a quick call to tell them you couldn't' show up for "xxx" reason would likely result in no charge. We can all come up with examples of why we couldn't make an ADR and I'm sure Disney will have a system in place for those reasons. Anything that gets you to call to cancel is much better than the system right now.

angelmav

01-19-2009, 07:00 PM

I mostly like the idea, However, I hope the have a policy in place if you need to cancel on the same day your reservation. Just for the record... I always make my reservations 180 days out, I never over book and always show up for my ressie. However, on our last trip we had to leave the Magic Kingdom after only 2 hrs because my 2yo spiked a fever and complained of ear pain. We went to Celebration Hospital and spent 6 hours there. Needless to say, we missed our ADR. I would hate to charged in this situation.

Totally agree with this. I mean its one thing if they havent charged in instances where they could have, but to expect that kind of benevolance is the problem if its not in writing. Hey their stuff breaks down too, we were stuck on RRC for an hour, if we were trying to get in one last ride, missed dinner and got charged then that would be a huge deal. As long as they accept day of cancelations, then its a fine policy.

wildeoscar

01-19-2009, 07:14 PM

which is cheeper, taking credit card info for everyone that is looking to try to get a reservation? or just taking the reservation? There are some safe guards already in place to prevent folks from making multiple reservations. The number of people that multibook has to be very very small in comparison to the number of reservations.

In a time when they are cost cutting, do you think they are going to spend dollars to save pennies?

daneenm

01-19-2009, 07:19 PM

I'm not sure how this would be any different than when you have to pay for a missed/no-show doctor's appointment, a missed/no-show spa appointment, a missed/no-show reservation at a nice restaurant or any other NOT CANCELED appointment. If you are going to miss it, call - then no charge. This happens in many walks of life...not sure why it has taken Disney this long to implement it, frankly.

Sounds iike Disney will have to beef up its phone abilities or have a special line for cancelations only, if people are waiting hours to get through. Perhaps a stop at City Hall or the hotel concierge would be a way as well.

LMO429

01-19-2009, 07:26 PM

If Disney is going to start charging for missed ADR's, then they really need to improve their phone service on their Disney Dining line. I tried to call and cancel an ADR for the next day while on our last trip and gave up after being on hold for over 20 minutes while walking around MK! I tried calling again the next morning and for over an hour, got the message that all lines were busy and to try again later!

It was so frustrating! If I had gotten charged for that missed ADR in addition to the time spent trying to call to cancel it, I would have been really ticked.

I agree with this, it is impossible sometimes to cancel a reservation in the parks if you dial the 407wdwdine number ..the easiest thing to do is to go to any restaurant podium and the hostess would be able to cancel or rearrange any reservations from there..Hope that helps for the next time

Jubilee

01-19-2009, 08:21 PM

If they are at the MK and they have an ADR somewhere else, then they should have planned better. That is only their fault, they made an ADR, They picked the time and location, no one's problem except them.

It is called planning, that is why they made an ADR. Don't waste it or not allow others to dine there if they really did not want it.
:thumbsup2

One word: spontaneity!

I am with you guys to an extent, but I like being spontaneous sometimes. I guess the best alternative is to not plan on a table service meal as often.

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 08:24 PM

One word: spontaneity!

I am with you guys to an extent, but I like being spontaneous sometimes. I guess the best alternative is to not plan on a table service meal as often.

Great! You'll have a better chance now that 1 person isn't taking up 5 ADRs on the same night.

Jubilee

01-19-2009, 08:49 PM

Great! You'll have a better chance now that 1 person isn't taking up 5 ADRs on the same night.

I'm talking both that and not having to fully plan my day around a dining reservation (ie. having to cancel 48 hours in advance or something.) :thumbsup2

Ways to ensure no double booking I'm fine with, but not being able to cancel in under 24 hours without a financial penalty, I don't necessarily agree with :shrug

dpuck1998

01-19-2009, 09:15 PM

I'm talking both that and not having to fully plan my day around a dining reservation (ie. having to cancel 48 hours in advance or something.) :thumbsup2

Ways to ensure no double booking I'm fine with, but not being able to cancel in under 24 hours without a financial penalty, I don't necessarily agree with :shrug

I don't equate CC hold with not being able to cancel IMHO

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 10:36 PM

Like I said, if its like other places, they don't even put a hold. They just keep your card on file in case you don't show up.

Also, a quick call to tell them you couldn't' show up for "xxx" reason would likely result in no charge. We can all come up with examples of why we couldn't make an ADR and I'm sure Disney will have a system in place for those reasons. Anything that gets you to call to cancel is much better than the system right now.

So, I can make a ton of ressies, call up after the fact with an excuse and not get charged? I mean, what about the case where that person had to leave after two hours because their kid spiked a fever. I doubt calling and cancelling was the first thing on their mind that day. Are they going to have to show an doctors' excuse? Or what about the person who can't get through to the ressie line? Or those that might wait and hour on the phone to cancel, is Disney going to pay them for their time?

I bet so many of you who are saying this is a great idea are also the type who plan everything down to the minute. It's a great idea until it affects you.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 10:41 PM

Great! You'll have a better chance now that 1 person isn't taking up 5 ADRs on the same night.

I think like somebody else pointed out, these multi-reservation people are few and far between. I doubt it's a giant problem, but taking a CC hold would create a giant problem I don't really want to be a part of. Yeah, one more ressie for you!!!

This sort of reminds me of the people complaining about wheelchairs and ECV's, it's a problem that is getting blown out of proportion.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 10:42 PM

What about people that don't have credit cards? Those people actually do exist. Will they have to send in a deposit?

Tink rules

01-19-2009, 10:46 PM

I like the idea - I just wish they would make it easier, especially from the resort to get in touch with dining without having to go through the outside line with so many "If you'd like to eat within the next 10 years... press 1") :rotfl2:

I liked when you could just pick up the phone and get a person... so old fashioned, I know...

UrsulasShadow

01-19-2009, 10:54 PM

So, I can make a ton of ressies, call up after the fact with an excuse and not get charged? I mean, what about the case where that person had to leave after two hours because their kid spiked a fever. I doubt calling and cancelling was the first thing on their mind that day. Are they going to have to show an doctors' excuse? Or what about the person who can't get through to the ressie line? Or those that might wait and hour on the phone to cancel, is Disney going to pay them for their time?

I bet so many of you who are saying this is a great idea are also the type who plan everything down to the minute. It's a great idea until it affects you.
Considering this whole thing is a rumor, I think many of us here are making a lot of presumptions about how it's going to work. Nobody knows for certain how Disney plans to handle this, but I'm pretty sure that if they do a CC hold with a nominal charge for no-shows, it'll work pretty much like other things they've done this with. If you call and cancel within a reasonable time beforehand, you will not get charged. If you call after you've missed an ADR with a reasonable excuse, your charge will most likely be reversed. If you have made 5 ADRs and only shown up for 1, I think you would be hard-pressed to come up with an acceptable excuse to have those 4 reversed.
It's possible that Disney's hope is that by putting a CC# with an ADR, they can flag multiple ADRs more easily. As it stands, if you don't link it to a reservation #, they have no way of tracking multiples. This sounds like it might be used as a deterrent for that behavior, as it would take a lot more work and multiple CC#s to reserve multiple ADRs.
I think like somebody else pointed out, these multi-reservation people are few and far between. I doubt it's a giant problem, but taking a CC hold would create a giant problem I don't really want to be a part of. Yeah, one more ressie for you!!!

This sort of reminds me of the people complaining about wheelchairs and ECV's, it's a problem that is getting blown out of proportion.

If this rumor is indeed something Disney is looking to implement, I can only imagine it is because DISNEY is seeing a giant problem. You may doubt what you want, and you're welcome to your opinion, but if a company takes the time and money to change a procedure, you can bet it's because the procedure NEEDS changing, because DISNEY feels that the problem is rampant, and is losing revenue on no-shows. If you want no part of it, fine. But don't attack those of us who think it's high time this change was made.

lugnut33

01-19-2009, 11:05 PM

Considering this whole thing is a rumor, I think many of us here are making a lot of presumptions about how it's going to work. Nobody knows for certain how Disney plans to handle this, but I'm pretty sure that if they do a CC hold with a nominal charge for no-shows, it'll work pretty much like other things they've done this with. If you call and cancel within a reasonable time beforehand, you will not get charged. If you call after you've missed an ADR with a reasonable excuse, your charge will most likely be reversed. If you have made 5 ADRs and only shown up for 1, I think you would be hard-pressed to come up with an acceptable excuse to have those 4 reversed.
It's possible that Disney's hope is that by putting a CC# with an ADR, they can flag multiple ADRs more easily. As it stands, if you don't link it to a reservation #, they have no way of tracking multiples. This sounds like it might be used as a deterrent for that behavior, as it would take a lot more work and multiple CC#s to reserve multiple ADRs.

If this rumor is indeed something Disney is looking to implement, I can only imagine it is because DISNEY is seeing a giant problem. You may doubt what you want, and you're welcome to your opinion, but if a company takes the time and money to change a procedure, you can bet it's because the procedure NEEDS changing, because DISNEY feels that the problem is rampant, and is losing revenue on no-shows. If you want no part of it, fine. But don't attack those of us who think it's high time this change was made.

Sorry if you think I'm attacking you as I'm just not of the same opinion that this is a good thing. I think there are other ways to prevent multiple ressies that wouldn't include a fine for missing. Besides, this would end up being a money maker for Disney because it's not like their tables are going to be empty if some people don't show up. Full tables plus missed reservations fines equals more money for Disney, so maybe they don't see it as a problem but as a revenue enhancer?

What if you simply have to make ressies linked to a hotel reservation or an annual pass number? I also think Disney moving the make date down to 90 days was a great idea which will cut down on multiple reservations. Might even be a good idea to drop that down to 60 days.

UrsulasShadow

01-19-2009, 11:20 PM

What if you simply have to make ressies linked to a hotel reservation or an annual pass number?

Not all people who stay offsite have APs, and I doubt that Disney would have access to other properties' hotel reservation systems or numbers. And what of those who stay with friends and family when visiting? Or rent villas? There are no numbers associated with that.

The only simple way to deter multiple reservations would be to use a CC hold.

Aussiejohn

01-20-2009, 05:15 AM

I would definitley support this initiative.

Aj

lorax123

01-20-2009, 05:38 AM

I think it's a great idea! I don't see the controversy tho. A few dinner shows and character meals already take a CC hold for a no show deposit.

TBH, it's not hard to remember where you made ADRs for that day. Unless of course you made 5 for that day... But this would eliminate that :>

Circumstances will always arise beyond your control, i'm sure anybody that does get charged the deposit will be few and far between. Most charges will occur mainly because they just didn't show and made no effort to cancel.

I wouldn't doubt you will be allowed to call an hour or two AFTER your scheduled ADR to cancel with NO penalty. I doubt the ADR cancellation process would be run by a cold hearted Nazi. Kids get sick and rides break and the last thing on your mind is making a phone call to cancel dinner.

PrincessBelle39

01-20-2009, 05:57 AM

What about people that don't have credit cards? Those people actually do exist. Will they have to send in a deposit?

This was my first thought. We have only had one for the last couple of years. Before that we travelled without. We never saw the need for one. I can think of a few people off the top of my head that don't have them.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem leaving a cc number for my reservations. I make the ADR's because I really want to eat in these places. But they would have to put something in place (and I have no idea what) for those that don't have cards.

Flametamr

01-24-2009, 09:02 AM

scotas

01-24-2009, 10:16 AM

I see where it may be necessary to start requiring a cc to hold a reservation. Unfortunately i am one of the "credit free" people who could then not make a dinner reservation at Disney. I would still go to Disney, I'm not one of those to fly off the handle about policy changes. I know some abuse the system. I would just have to face more counter service or hope for more walk ups being available.

WickedWench

01-24-2009, 11:00 AM

The problem of multiple ADRs does exist. Although it may not be pampant. I have spoken to people who make ADRs for different times of the day and also in different parks on the same days so they can just go eat when they feel like it. Their justification is to blame it all on Disney. They believe that if Disney would build more resturants and have more room for walk ups they would not have to make so many ADRs. Some people are too lazy to plan.

I for one am 100 pct for CCs to hold an ADR.

Ok, not knowing what you're going to want to eat or when 3 months in advance is NOT laziness. Some of us like to relax on vacation and not be kept to strict schedules. I don't like force-feeding myself at a particular time because that's when I thought I might be hungry 3 months ago, or starving myself because I know that if I eat, I won't be hungry for my ADR.

Because of this stupid ADR business, I ate most of my meals at CS or off-property on my last trip. On my next trip, I plan to make no ADRs at all, and will just call and see what's available when I actually want to eat, and if there's nothing, then I'll be hopping in the car and I'll be spending my money off property.

I think the whole ADR thing needs to go away except for the most exclusive places like V&A's, CRT, or character dining.

minie_meese

01-24-2009, 11:35 AM

Because of this stupid ADR business, I ate most of my meals at CS or off-property on my last trip. On my next trip, I plan to make no ADRs at all, and will just call and see what's available when I actually want to eat, and if there's nothing, then I'll be hopping in the car and I'll be spending my money off property.

I feel similar - I like vacations to be relaxing so I tend to not make ADRs except for large groups or for special meals. If nothing is available we eat CS. Generally we don't have a car so we can't easily go off site.

Some of the earlier posts mentioned that they were not sure if over-booking ADRs was a problem. I tend to think it is for restaurants that may not be someone's first choice. There have been times when I have had a hard time getting an ADR only to show up at the restaurant at the time I requested to see if there were no-shows and found the place half empty. Don't know how common but I have seen it more than a few times.

I wonder if a recent call to Disney Dining is a test of things to come with respect to credit cards and ADRs. I have an ADR on 2/13 at Narcoossee's as a special dinner for my husband and myself. The CM asked if I wanted to book it as the "Sweetheart Dinner for 2" for $150. I asked for more details and one of the things required was that you give a credit card. If you do not cancel within 24 hours they would charge $10 to your credit card for no-shows. California Grill has the package for $170 with a $20 no-show penalty.

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 11:42 AM

I think like somebody else pointed out, these multi-reservation people are few and far between. I doubt it's a giant problem, but taking a CC hold would create a giant problem I don't really want to be a part of. Yeah, one more ressie for you!!!

This sort of reminds me of the people complaining about wheelchairs and ECV's, it's a problem that is getting blown out of proportion.

You have made some generalizations that are based on opinion...not fact.

There is an average of 250,000 people that visit one of the 4 WDW theme parks on any given day. Let's say 1% (or 250 people) make duplicate reservations. Thats 250 tables being held for folks that arent showing up.

Even if it's only 1%....it's a BIG problem that needs to be corrected and if Disney is losing a dime because of it.....count on it being corrected.

As for your remark about people complaining about folks in wheelchairs / ECV's being blown out of proportion....you should read my email. If even one person is made to feel bad, humilated, embarrassed or in the way because of needing assitance, then in my opinion, there is a huge problem. If you doubt that...spend the day in or pushing a wheelchair and report back about how the problem is blown out of proportion.

WickedWench

01-24-2009, 12:06 PM

You have made some generalizations that are based on opinion...not fact.

There is an average of 250,000 people that visit one of the 4 WDW theme parks on any given day. Let's say 1% (or 250 people) make duplicate reservations. Thats 250 tables being held for folks that arent showing up.

Even if it's only 1%....it's a BIG problem that needs to be corrected and if Disney is losing a dime because of it.....count on it being corrected.

As for your remark about people complaining about folks in wheelchairs / ECV's being blown out of proportion....you should read my email. If even one person is made to feel bad, humilated, embarrassed or in the way because of needing assitance, then in my opinion, there is a huge problem. If you doubt that...spend the day in or pushing a wheelchair and report back about how the problem is blown out of proportion.

Kevin, I think there's some miscommunication here. I think lugnut33 was referring to the people complaining about the EVCs being the problem, not the people using them.

minie_meese

01-24-2009, 12:13 PM

Kevin - 1% of 250,000 is 2,500. I make similar mistakes all the time.

I only bring it up because 2,500 people making duplicate reservations is pretty significant. Evan 1/2 of 1% - 1,250 is a lot.

As to your comment regarding the ECVs If even one person is made to feel bad, humiliated, embarrassed or in the way because of needing assistance, then in my opinion, there is a huge problem. - I totally agree. We beg my mother-in-law to use an ECV and she pushes back for fear of embarrassment. She looks totally healthy for someone her age but has a heart condition that would put an undue strain on her heart if she walks more than short distances. She hates the idea of being "in a chair" and would rather miss something great than to feel embarrassed.

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 12:25 PM

Kevin, I think there's some miscommunication here. I think lugnut33 was referring to the people complaining about the EVCs being the problem, not the people using them.

I understood what lunut33 was saying and I repeat....you should read my email. You'd see things differently.

People in wheelchairs / ECV's (and the people assisting them) are writing and telling me that the problem of people being rude / offensive / thoughtless / mean / insensitive etc. is widespread and needs to be stopped.

And to anyone that thinks this is exaggeration.....I challenge you to spend a day in or pushing a wheelchair and report back as to how easy your day really was.

WickedWench

01-24-2009, 12:27 PM

I understood what lunut33 was saying and I repeat....you should read my email. You'd see things differently.

People in wheelchairs / ECV's (and the people assisting them) are writing and telling me that the problem of people being rude / offensive / thoughtless / mean / insensitive etc. is widespread and needs to be stopped.

And to anyone that thinks this is exaggeration.....I challenge you to spend a day in or pushing a wheelchair and report back as to how easy your day really was.

Um, I'm agreeing with you Kevin, not argueing with you. And I think the other poster meant the same.

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 12:27 PM

Kevin - 1% of 250,000 is 2,500. I make similar mistakes all the time.

I only bring it up because 2,500 people making duplicate reservations is pretty significant. Evan 1/2 of 1% - 1,250 is a lot.

Math was never my strong point.

I was much better with slander and innuendo. :thumbsup2

But thank you....you have made my point even better than I did.

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 12:31 PM

Um, I'm agreeing with you Kevin, not argueing with you. And I think the other poster meant the same.

Then I apologize for misunderstanding.

I must have read it wrong.

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 12:35 PM

UrsulasShadow

01-24-2009, 12:39 PM

I've gone back and re-read this a couple of times.....and if I am mis-reading it, then I still apologize.....but I'm not sure I am.

I think what lugnut was trying to say was that the people who complain about wheelchairs and ECVs being misused are blowing the misuse out of proportion.
I hope nobody would think that standing up for the rights and comfort of those who use these devices is in any way blowing the problem of mistreatment of those people out of proportion.

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 12:42 PM

I think what lugnut was trying to say was that the people who complain about wheelchairs and ECVs being misused are blowing the misuse out of proportion.

If this is the case, then I did indeed misunderstand what was written and I apologize.

UrsulasShadow

01-24-2009, 12:47 PM

If this is the case, then I did indeed misunderstand what was written and I apologize.

Now that I've defended it, I hope I interpreted it the way the poster intended!:rolleyes:

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 12:50 PM

Now that I've defended it, I hope I interpreted it the way the poster intended!:rolleyes:

Others have pointed out that I may have been mis-reading this.

TyRy

01-24-2009, 12:59 PM

I actually don't see this as a bad thing...it might free up ADR's for those who like to relax on vacation (like DH) and not have every minute planned.

I will say we had a few meals on the last trip that required a CC gurantee and I was told that I would be charged a small amount per person (think it was 10 or 20 dollars) if we did not show up. I ended up getting terribly sick and it was almost an hour by hour thing if I could/would go with the rest of my group. For the couple ADR's I did not make, they did and explained that I had gotten sick. We had no charges for me not showing up. So I think they may be willing to make certain exceptions.

Ty

Uncle Remus

01-24-2009, 01:38 PM

While many of you present some scenarios for an exception to the ADR CC hold, I'm still strongly in favor of the hold requirement 'n penalty for no shows w/o as much as a cancel call. I totally agree there is an abuse by some folks who make 6 ADRs for one meal only to choose at the last minute where they'll actually show 'n this is more than rude, I don't like anyone gettin' in the way of me 'n my food. I'm glad Disney is finally addressin' this problem.

DVCsince02

01-24-2009, 01:43 PM

HEY, have some :cake:

:)

SnackyStacky

01-24-2009, 03:27 PM

My $.02...

I think it's a great idea in theory.

But my opinion of it will be based on how they put it in place. It's hard enough to figure out what you're going to be hungry for 3 months in advance. It just makes it all the harder knowing that you're pretty locked into that dining time if anything comes up during the day or two before.

When I was traveling in September, we had one of those resort photo sessions. For whatever reason - it EXHAUSTED the two toddlers in our party and we had to wait at the resort for them to take a nap. Instead of their normal two hour nap at noon, they were hard out sleeping at about 10:30. We didn't get out and moving again until 3 pm, and our reservation was for 5. Were a cancellation penalty in place, we would have had to choose between a $90 - $135 fee ($10 - $15 multiplied by 9 people) or missing Hollywood Studios. What a fabulous decision to have to make!

Yeah, I'm responsible for my own party - but as I mentioned, we traveled in September and I had to make that reservation in March! How was I supposed to know then that a 20 minute photo shoot at 9:00 am would have thrown off our entire day?

Anyway - my point is that life happens. Especially on vacation, and ESPECIALLY on a vacation with kids. I just hope that Disney can provide some flexibility for those who need it while cracking down on those who abuse the system.

Sparkie

01-24-2009, 03:47 PM

I think its a good idea too.

But that disclaimer on the WDW dining page from each individual resturant- the one that states: "cancellation policy applies and may result in charges if you cancel with insufficient notice" has been on their page at least since summer 2008. Sometime back there was a thread that discussed this very topic over on the dining board. We went to Disney July 2008 and I remember reading that disclaimer when I was researching resturants.

So when ever it will happen or if it will happen will remain to be seen.

crazydisneyman

01-24-2009, 03:50 PM

I support the use of CC holds on ADRs.

I believe that this will allow for more people to do a walk up ADR. I tried to get into Chef Mickey's for 40 days this last Dec. I actually called each of the 40 days before MF in Dec 2008. There was no availability. NOT AT ALL!

I believe that had the CC hold been in place, I could have gotten an ADR. Because we have a toddler, we decided that a walkup would be risky as she probably couldn't wait very long for a table to open up.

I just called about Cinderella's Royal Table Breakfast, and I was able to reserve two tables for 6 at 815 on a Wed with a CC hold. I couldn't believe it! I think that this policy will help, not hurt. :)

DisneyKevin

01-24-2009, 04:15 PM

DVCJones

01-24-2009, 07:26 PM

I do like the idea of holding CC#s for the all the reasons already posted. However, I do hope they implement a policy that allows you to cancel even if it is only an hours notice. Things do happen...Children/people do get sick on vacation. I think it would be fairly easy for Disney to figure out who is abusing the system. If I was to implement a fair policy for canceling ADRs it would go something like this.

If you call to cancel an ADR on short notice and the CM can see you have one reservation for that time then you should be able to cancel with no penalty.

However,

If a CM goes in to cancel an ADR and sees many ADRs for the same general time and day....Sorry, you are obviously abusing the system and you should be charged.

just my $ 0.2

wildeoscar

01-25-2009, 10:49 PM

I guess I dont see the CC hold for a restaurant reservation as being any different than any other reservation which requires a deposit and imposes a penalty for late cancelation.

You are agreeing to a penalty in order to have the security of knowing your place has been saved.

This happens when you book a hotel, airfare etc.

Other things carry even stiffer penalties...if you cancel a cruise 45 days prior to departure, you lose 50% of your deposit. It you cancel within 7 days of departure, you lose everything you have paid.

And still other events force you to pay the entire amount in advance,,,sporting events, theater tickets, concerts etc. If life gets in the way...oh well....give the ticket away or sell it, but there are no refunds.

All of these are money making ventures in the same way that Disney restaurants are money making ventures. Ensuring that all tables are filled at all times is the way to make the most profits and that's Disney's (and any other business) goal.

As Disney fans, we have learned how to circumvent whatever system or policy Disney puts in place. People make multiple ADRS so as to have a choice of dining options. We've told folks that if a table for two isnt available, book for three.

All of this is counter to Disney's bottom line goal of filling every seat.

As we all know....if Disney notices a crack, they will eventually fix it and it sounds like this is their answer.

Are there going to be issues and extenating circumstances? Of course.

Is Disney going to work with guests? I'd guess up until excuses become too frequent.

Will it change the way guests book dining? Probably

are there seats going unfilled because of current policy? are walk ups that rare? Airlines take the money, over book and count on people not showing up. A concert or sporting event ticket is not the same as going to diner. It is a matter of missed opportunity, supply and demand. There is high demand for meals at Disney, walk ups are frequent, there are some locations that due to demand carry a weight of penalty. Many do not. At what point should there be a penalty for missing a reservation at 7 dragons?
Taking the CC for all reservations has an associated cost where you have to keep people on the phone longer, and are unable to help other customers, so you have to hire more staff to process the reservations, increased computer capacity etc.

1% or even 1/2 a % seems like a very high number for those multi booking... out of the 200,000 registered on this site, how many are active, how many are regularly active? I see people with thousands of posts asking questions about where to find the park hours... if you have thousands of posts on a site dedicated to WDW, should you have an idea where to find park hours? Same principle applies to multi booking. 250 sounds more realistic, but out of how many tables at WDW? and so you think that is someone doesn't show up for a reservation that table just sits empty? or that they might be over booking? There are a lot of unintended costs associated with going to this system that are already fixed in the real world. I goto Applebees and wait for a table, on tuesday night, I get seated right away, on friday night I wait about an hour... does this surprise anyone?

on multiple vacations with multiple reservations per day over 10 days... at the busy restaurants I waited longer to be seated than at the not so busy places, if I ate breakfast before 8am... no wait to be seated, at 9am a wait to be seated. Hm, kinda like at waffle house.

the people that are bothered that they can't get the reservation they want at the time they want should either not go to WDW at all, or eat somewhere else. Vote with your feet, go someplace else. The cost to "fix" this problem for the small number of people effected is greater than the cost of a table that is not sitting empty in the first place. BECAUSE WDW IS ALREADY OVERBOOKING AND EXPECTING A GIVEN NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO NOT SHOW UP AT MOST OF THE RESTAURANTS. For some locations, the costs associated justify a CC hold to ensure the reservation... but that would also mean, that when I show up at CAli Grill, at my reservation time, I should be seated immediately if they are holding that table just for me... does that happen? no.

Keep trying to justify the policy, but it is a rumor that probably came from Jim Hill while he was eating at the new AC in a new park that started construction in someplace I like to call, Fantasyland with out Cindy's Castle.

wildeoscar

01-25-2009, 11:00 PM

This debate reminds me of a conversation I had with an intern at Disney Imagineering years ago about a project he was working on, to provide a device that could be handed out to cars as they pay for their parking that would give some voice guided instructions on how parking works and where to find the tram to the park and some general info about what is going on at the parks that day... he had the costing of the device at about $1000, it would need to be recharged twice a day, and they would have to stock them at the hut where you pay for parking, the weight was about a pound, I could go on... my question was, isn't that what the guide that they hand out covers? Followed by the question... how many people are getting lost while parking, then can't find the park? It was a solution in search of a problem that is already solved with high cost and no ROI.

Taking CC hold for every restaurant is a solution to a problem that is already solved. The cost would be high, and there is no ROI.

DisneyKevin

01-25-2009, 11:38 PM

are there seats going unfilled because of current policy? .

Yes. We've explained this before. There are times when you can not get a reservation at a given location, yet you show up and the place is empty. It actually happens frequently.

Are walk ups that rare?

At certain places...they are very rare. Try walking up to Le Cellier or Chef Mickey's.

Airlines take the money, over book and count on people not showing up.

And compensate you if they cant privide the service for which you've paid.

A concert or sporting event ticket is not the same as going to diner.

Correct. You pay for the privlesge of going prior to the event. You are not allowed a ticket "just in case" you have nothing to do that night.

It is a matter of missed opportunity, supply and demand. There is high demand for meals at Disney.

Correct again...that's why they feel they can charge more for the same meal during busier times.

walk ups are frequent,

In some places. As already stated....try walking up to Le Cellier or Chef Mickey's

At what point should there be a penalty for missing a reservation at 7 dragons?

When someone is turned away from dining there due to someone not keeping or canceling the reservation they made.

Taking the CC for all reservations has an associated cost where you have to keep people on the phone longer, and are unable to help other customers, so you have to hire more staff to process the reservations, increased computer capacity etc.

As a travel agent, I spend a great deal of time waiting on hold with Disney. There was a 36 minute hold for dining today and a 69 minute hold for Disney Cruise LIne. In an effort to save money, Disney has cut the number of of telephone operators. Disney seems unconcerned about letting a customer wait, only about losing money.

1% or even 1/2 a % seems like a very high number for those multi booking

Pick any number with which you feel comfortable. Disney will plug any hole that leaks money. We have seen them do this repeatedly. A great example of this is the Candlelight Processional package. In years past, you could see the show and then have a leisurely dinner. Recently, Disney changed this. You now have dinner and then the show. This does multiple things. It insures that you dont dawdle over coffee thereby occupying an expensive seat that can be refilled and it fills in the less desirable dining times. If you want to see the 5:15 Candlelight, you have dinner (and yes...you pay dinner prices) at 2:30 or 3:00pm

.. out of the 200,000 registered on this site, how many are active, how many are regularly active? I see people with thousands of posts asking questions about where to find the park hours... if you have thousands of posts on a site dedicated to WDW, should you have an idea where to find park hours? Same principle applies to multi booking.

I guess I'm a little slow. I dont understand this at all. I've been at Disney and seen adults ask a CM where the nearest bathroom might be. There are free maps and signs. According to this logic, shouldn't they know how to find a bathroom?

250 sounds more realistic, but out of how many tables at WDW? and so you think that is someone doesn't show up for a reservation that table just sits empty?

As stated earlier...we've seen this happen. I called Disney Dining to get a reservation for Spoodles on a weekday afternoon. I was told there were no reservations available. None! we decided to go see for ourselves and Spoodles was EMPTY. One other table was being used. The manager's explanation was that this happens all of the time. People make reservations and any number of things can cause them to not show. Good weather, bad weather....anything....but the outcome is an empty restaurant that Disney dining is stating should be full.

I goto Applebees and wait for a table, on tuesday night, I get seated right away, on friday night I wait about an hour... does this surprise anyone?

During a good portion of the year, every night is Friday night at WDW. The economy might change that, but this is how it's been recently.

on multiple vacations with multiple reservations per day over 10 days... at the busy restaurants I waited longer to be seated than at the not so busy places, if I ate breakfast before 8am... no wait to be seated, at 9am a wait to be seated. Hm, kinda like at waffle house.

Again, I'm confused as to what this has to do with making reservations. If you do not want to make an ADR and are willing to fly by the seat of your pants and / or eat at off peak times....then this should not be a problem at all. If you arent making a reservation then there is no penalty.

the people that are bothered that they can't get the reservation they want at the time they want should either not go to WDW at all, or eat somewhere else.

Hmm. I'm betting that there are some people that wont agree with this.

The cost to "fix" this problem for the small number of people effected is greater than the cost of a table that is not sitting empty in the first place. BECAUSE WDW IS ALREADY OVERBOOKING AND EXPECTING A GIVEN NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO NOT SHOW UP AT MOST OF THE RESTAURANTS.

I'm not sure where that information comes from and I'm not sure I agree with it.

For some locations, the costs associated justify a CC hold to ensure the reservation.

My dinner at Cinderella's Royal Table (prepaid) was less costly them my dinner at Narcoossee's (just an ADR).

.. but that would also mean, that when I show up at CAli Grill, at my reservation time, I should be seated immediately if they are holding that table just for me... does that happen? no.

Dont give Disney ideas or they may start putting meters on tables. Some folks eat slower than others.

Keep trying to justify the policy, but it is a rumor

First...it's not yet policy and second, I'm not trying to justify it. simply stating why I think it's a good idea. And you are correct again, currently, this is a rumor.

that probably came from Jim Hill while he was eating at the new AC in a new park that started construction in someplace I like to call, Fantasyland with out Cindy's Castle.

I'm just leaving that alone.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 12:52 AM

executive summery: those locations that can demand and get the CC hold for a reservation already do

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
are there seats going unfilled because of current policy? .
Yes. We've explained this before. There are times when you can not get a reservation at a given location, yet you show up and the place is empty. It actually happens frequently.
sounds like a management issue, I just don't see anyone being will to take a $20 hit per person for missing a reservation at 9 dragons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
Are walk ups that rare?
At certain places...they are very rare. Try walking up to Le Cellier or Chef Mickey's.
I was referring to the number of people that walk up and ask, not the number of people that actually get walk ups. And again, Chef Mickey and Le Cellier could command the CC premium, Spoodles or 9 Dragons not so much

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
Airlines take the money, over book and count on people not showing up.
And compensate you if they cant provide the service for which you've paid.
then the same would have to hold true for the restaurant reservation guaranteed with the penalty, you can pay extra to get a ticket that cannot be bumped on the airlines... so it should be that when I arrive at my guaranteed time I should be seated immediately with out hesitation, my reservation held that table just for me, right? Like I can make a car rental reservation that holds me a car, or the sporting event ticket holds me the seat? I should even be able to show up late and be seated immediately, because they just took my money for holding that seat right, so if I am 5 min. late, 10 min. late, 20 min. late, that seat should still be held? Boarding for the airplane starts 30 min prior to departure, at 9 min. to departure all seats are released to stand by, at 5 min. the doors are closed. Again, in the locations where they take CC hold to guarantee your seat you are not promptly seated... the amount of time it takes other patrons to eat is not my concern. But they don't do this, they get behind and seat you at the next available table, because that is how restaurants in the real world work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
A concert or sporting event ticket is not the same as going to diner.
Correct. You pay for the privlesge of going prior to the event. You are not allowed a ticket "just in case" you have nothing to do that night.
ya pays your money, you takes your chances

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
It is a matter of missed opportunity, supply and demand. There is high demand for meals at Disney.
Correct again...that's why they feel they can charge more for the same meal during busier times.
and if you don't want to pay the premium don't eat there. complaining about it won't help when there is already an audience willing to pay that premium

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
walk ups are frequent,
In some places. As already stated....try walking up to Le Cellier or Chef Mickey's
as already stated, the number of people walking up and asking are large, the number of people who get seated as walk ups are small at high demand locations. if someone missed their reservation at a high demand location, they can fill the table easily

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
At what point should there be a penalty for missing a reservation at 7 dragons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
Taking the CC for all reservations has an associated cost where you have to keep people on the phone longer, and are unable to help other customers, so you have to hire more staff to process the reservations, increased computer capacity etc.
As a travel agent, I spend a great deal of time waiting on hold with Disney. There was a 36 minute hold for dining today and a 69 minute hold for Disney Cruise LIne. In an effort to save money, Disney has cut the number of of telephone operators. Disney seems unconcerned about letting a customer wait, only about losing money.
and if they have to take a CC for every dining reservation, how much will that increase the hold time? heck when I make multiple reservations in one phone call they repeat back something about allowing travel time and what not for every reservation booked and they have a history of not getting reservation systems to work very well, and what about the mixed and split family where grandma and grandpa wanna put certain meals on their card vs. mom and dad on theirs for others, and explaining that the card holds the reservation and doesn't need to be the same card to pay for the meal, etc. I am guessing your hold time would increase, a lot

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
1% or even 1/2 a % seems like a very high number for those multi booking
Pick any number with which you feek comfortable. Disney will plug any hole that leaks monet. We have seen them do this repeatedly. A great example of this is the Candlelight Processional package. In years past, you could see the show and then have a leisurely dinner. Recently, Disney changed this. You now have dinner and then the show. This does multiple things. It insures that you dont dawdle over coffee thereby occupying an expensive seat that can be refilled and it fills in the less desirable dining times. If you want to see the 5:15 Candlelight, you have dinner (and yes...you pay dinner prices) at 2:30 or 3:00pm
that's just good management of a high demand event, the increased demand means you have to figure out how to jack more people through, like adding additional ticket takers in the morning when the parks open vs. the number of ticket takers in the afternoon. If you don't like the price or the policy, don't go... the more people that don't go will reduce demand, reduced demand means lower prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
.. out of the 200,000 registered on this site, how many are active, how many are regularly active? I see people with thousands of posts asking questions about where to find the park hours... if you have thousands of posts on a site dedicated to WDW, should you have an idea where to find park hours? Same principle applies to multi booking.
I guess I'm a little slow. I dont understand this at all. I've been at Disney and seen adults ask a CM where the nearest bathroom might be. There are free maps and signs. According to this logic, shouldn't they know how to find a bathroom?
it is the law of large numbers, people think the because so many people are at WDW at any given time that kids must get snatched from parents everyday. the reality is significantly less. People think that stadiums being built with money from a bond passed a year should be able to spend that money to cover the short fall in property taxes for basic local government services, I think the bond holders would be upset. I find it very difficult to believe that there are that many people double booking reservations. And I don't think Spoodles has the drawing power to command a $20 penalty for missing your reservation. and I often have to ask for directions to the bathroom in my own house, I get lost easy... something to do with loosing my hair I think;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
250 sounds more realistic, but out of how many tables at WDW? and so you think that is someone doesn't show up for a reservation that table just sits empty?
As stated earlier...we've seen this happen. I called Disney Dining to get a reservation for Spoodles on a weekday afternoon. I was told there were no reservations available. None! we decided to go see for ourselves and Spoodles was EMPTY. One other table was being used. The manager's explanation was that this happens all of the time. People make reservations and any number of things can cause them to not show. Good weather, bad weather....anything....but the outcome is an empty restaurant that Disney dining is stating should be full.
that's just bad management, and if it were a nice day I wouldn't goto spoodles either even if the food were free (well maybe free)... if it were a nice day, you can bet I would make a Le Cellier Reservation

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
I goto Applebees and wait for a table, on tuesday night, I get seated right away, on friday night I wait about an hour... does this surprise anyone?
During a good portion of the year, every night is Friday night at WDW. The economy might change that, but this is how it's been recently.
yup, and you wait for a table at peak times at peak locations. Even with that reservation. and you wait less at non peak times, supply and demand

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
on multiple vacations with multiple reservations per day over 10 days... at the busy restaurants I waited longer to be seated than at the not so busy places, if I ate breakfast before 8am... no wait to be seated, at 9am a wait to be seated. Hm, kinda like at waffle house.
Again, I'm confused as to what this has to do with making reservations. If you do not want to make an ADR and are willing to fly by the seat of your pants and / or eat at off peak times....then this should not be a problem at all. If you arent making a reservation then there is no penalty.
again... even with the reservation, you are made to wait for a table at peak times. if they were booking one reservation to a table at peak times it would be spaced such that I am seated immediately (meaning a very short wait) when I walk up. The amount of time a 4 top takes to eat at a given location can be determined with a high degree of accuracy and wait staff are trained to turn over a table in that amount of time, therefore if the reservation system is one to one, the table should be waiting for me, not me waiting for the table. this is not what they are doing, peak demand and peak location you wait... these locations where (due to demand) it is possible to incur the penalty for missing the reservation already have it in place. Spoodles and 9 Dragons not so much

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
the people that are bothered that they can't get the reservation they want at the time they want should either not go to WDW at all, or eat somewhere else.
Hmm. I'm betting that there are some people that wont agree with this.
that is like saying people might not agree with gravity? I don't think Cirque de So lame is worth $250 a ticket, so I don't go... some people think it is worth that and more, they can have my seat (if that seat is near the clowns with BO i'd be willing to fork over a $20 to not go). It is supply and demand, if you don't think the cost is worth the product, don't buy it... if there are people waiting to buy the product at the higher price, don't expect the price to come down. That just the economics of the situation. you can not like it, but products rarely get cheaper when demand increases

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
The cost to "fix" this problem for the small number of people effected is greater than the cost of a table that is not sitting empty in the first place. BECAUSE WDW IS ALREADY OVERBOOKING AND EXPECTING A GIVEN NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO NOT SHOW UP AT MOST OF THE RESTAURANTS.
I'm not sure where that information comes from and I'm not sure I agree with it.
it has to be true, peak demand = peak wait times even with reservations. if the reservation system were one for one, there would be no wait time when you arrive. or given the difference in the amount of time it takes to eat for some parties, a short wait time i.e. less than 5 min. Hotels do it, the airlines do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
For some locations, the costs associated justify a CC hold to ensure the reservation.
My dinner at Cinderella's Royal Table (prepaid) was less costly them my dinner at Narcoossee's (just an ADR).
yup, and I am guessing that it is very rare anyone misses a reservation at Cindy's royal table... the product has the cache to demand the CC hold. The cost here is opportunity cost, how do you measure in dollars dressing your daughter as a princess to eat in a castle? They could serve burnt spam at $100 a head and still have the place booked 90 days out. CRT is not worth it to me, Narcoosee's would be, but I don't have a 6 year old in a princess dress screaming daddy in the way that little girls do that make you cringe a little. Comparing the demand elasticity of the two is comparing poison apples to ruby slippers (not the same move, not the same studio).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
.. but that would also mean, that when I show up at CAli Grill, at my reservation time, I should be seated immediately if they are holding that table just for me... does that happen? no.
Dont give Disney ideas or they may start putting meters on tables. Some folks eat slower than others.
you can predict fairly well how long it will take most patrons to eat, and how often the table will turn over, no meter required

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
Keep trying to justify the policy, but it is a rumor
First...it's not yet policy and second, I'm not trying to justify it. simply stating why I think it's a good idea. And you are correct again, currently, this is a rumor.
if you think it is a good idea, then in some way you are justifying it... I don't think the costs to implement would recover the costs from loss, given that I don't think there is loss. If Spoodles had open reservations how busy would they be on a nice day, vs if le Cellier had open reservations on a nice day? there just is not the level of demand to justify the cost at most locations... a more believable rumor would be that they are going to expand the CC hold program to peak times at peak locations... oh wait, they already do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildeoscar View Post
that probably came from Jim Hill while he was eating at the new AC in a new park that started construction in someplace I like to call, Fantasyland with out Cindy's Castle.
I'm just leaving that alone.
I have friends in management at WDW as well... lots of ideas get discussed that never see the light of day, but when you have to sell advertising to make a buck to pay the bills... a sensational story sells a lot more than a boring one... that is why everything will kill you dead and maim your children during sweeps week, and that is why Kevin always has the good rumors, cause he filters the stuff that is just being discussed from the stuff that is being implemented. So in a round about way I am saying that's why the info on disunplugged carries more weight, no advertisers they have to satisfy with ratings. Others that have to carry ratings to sell advertising need to attract a crowd... which is where a lot of these rumors come from.

technical summery: there is no ROI for implementing CC hold for all reservations across all restaurants. Implementing such a policy would drive down demand at the low demand restaurants and not change demand for the high demand restaurants.

dpuck1998

01-26-2009, 08:15 AM

DisneyKevin

01-26-2009, 09:16 AM

I still think it's a good idea.

If you want a reservation, leave a credit card hold and agree to pay a penalty for not showing / canceling.

If you are willing to take your chances and eat when and where you can find a seat....then there is no problem.

This might have multiple benefits....

- Less people on the phone with Disney Dining
- Less stress about planning what you want to eat 6 months in advance
- Less double booking
- Better chance of getting a walk up seat.

Yup....I still think it's a good idea

UrsulasShadow

01-26-2009, 09:47 AM

Rex, I can't even understand most of what you're trying to say here, and I give Kevin all the credit in the world for trying to sort through it, but I think that one of the points of this whole thing is that tables are being HELD and are kept EMPTY because of the ADR system. I think they only have a certain number of tables for walkups. That number is (I'm guessing here...I really don't know how they work it) probably determined by how many ADRs they have that day. IF all the tables are theoretically filled by ADRs, there are NO tables available for walkups. If the ADRs never show, those tables remain unfilled.

My guess (again, I don't know) is that after a certain time, if they tried to fill the missed ADR table with a walkup (let's say after 10 minutes), that throws off the time estimate for that table in the system. So a table slated for ADRs is now filled by a walk-up, carrying over into the next ADR slot. Multiply this times however many no-shows there is, and it negates the usefulness of the entire ADR system.

Reducing the number of non-used ADRs with even the THREAT of a CC charge would keep things moving much more smoothly, and more tables filled.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 11:05 AM

If a manager of a restaurant is sitting there with a room full of empty tables because no one is showing up for their reservation, it is not the reservation system that is broken.

I just don't buy it that they are leaving tables sit empty for a reservation at the restaurants that are busy. Could Le Cellier get a CC hold for a reservation? Yes. Do they have to? No. Why? Because people who get that reservation show up for that reservation. Could Spoodles get a CC hold for a reservation? No. Because it isn't that great a place to eat in the first place.

Saying that Spoodles had no reservtion and was fully booked while no one was eating there on a nice day does not directly equate to the reservation system being broken... cause Spoodles is not that great a place to eat. If Le Cellier was empty because no one was showing up for a reservation on a nice day... well that would be something. But even that wouldn't happen because if they were empty or have spare tables, they could tell any of the hundreds (and I would guess hundreds, because when you are waiting for your table you hear it over and over that they have no walk ups) that they could be seated right away. For a good day in the parks, no one is gonna wonder over to Spoodles and walk up for a table.

Adding a CC hold to all the reservation is going to have unintended consequences for WDW dining that will result in fewer people making reservations at sub par restaurants. The places that were empty, will still be empty... the places that are busy will still be busy. And the added cost of having to take the CC hold lowers the profit margin. Much like automagicly including the tip in the dining plan lowered the bar for service when using a former version of the dining plan. If they want to fix the system, and make it completely fair so you can't game the system at all they would get rid of reservations and make it all walk up, which creates other problems.

Have you ever heard the expression, "Democracy is a terrible form of government, but it is better than the others?" The system as it is now is terrible, but it is better than it would be to force CC hold for places that don't have excellent reviews and a lot of business already.

I realize it is a difficult concept to follow. Following the logic that Spoodles is empty while they have no reservations means the reservation system is broken is specious logic. But hang with me here, if Spoodles was a great restaurant with a large following serving great food with great service ya know kinda like Le Cellier... would the restaurant be empty when the reservation book was full?

cathie1327

01-26-2009, 11:19 AM

There are a lot of different reasons I think a CC hold would be a good idea, but I don't want to really walk into the the line of fire...sooo...I'll share some other thoughts I have....

Isn't it possible for a cast member to see how many reservations you have for any given day? Here's my thoughts....pretty much anyone eats a max of 3 meals a day, especially at table service places, because in general they give you a lot of food. (or at least that's what we found on our trip).....I wonder if they could limit the amount of ADR's to 3 a day?

Also something else to think about...if the CM on the phone can see your ADR's and when and where they are for, could there maybe be a rule that there has to be at least an hour in between each?

Now, of course, any of these alternatives doesn't account for people who will make reservations under different names or people in their party, which is, of course, abusing the system.

I think the biggest thing that gets me is whether the tables are empty or not, it's just plain rude. Someone who's holding a reservation because they MIGHT want to go there is taking it away from someone who really WANTS to go there. Imagine telling your 5 year old you couldn't go to Chef Mickey's because there are no reservations, only to find out later that it was because someone booked an ADR and didn't use it...now of course there's no way to really find out if that was the case, but it happens quite often, so when you can't secure a reservation you REALLY want, it has to cross your mind that that is the case....

Also, on the note of life happening...I think (at least I hope) Disney will understand that things happen. Given that the problem is people just not showing up and the restaraunt not knowing why, or if they're late or what the situation is....I think they would rather have you call even just 15 minutes ahead of time to say you're not going to make it than just not show up.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 11:27 AM

If you want a reservation, leave a credit card hold and agree to pay a penalty for not showing / canceling.

OK. but the places that are not busy now, will still not be busy because people are not going to want book with the possibility of a penalty at mediocre places to eat.

If you are willing to take your chances and eat when and where you can find a seat....then there is no problem.

So when you walked in to Spoodles, with the reservations booked full, and the restaurant was empty, they refused to seat you? If they refused to seat you because they already had all the tables booked for reservations that people were not showing up, that is a management issue.

If a restaurant with reservations that no one is showing up for is turning away walk ups, they are just stupid. The places that are busy can turn away walk ups, because everyone is going to show up for that reservation.

It is easy to do a walk up and sit down to dinner at a place no one wants to eat.

This might have multiple benefits....

- Less people on the phone with Disney Dining
- Less stress about planning what you want to eat 6 months in advance
- Less double booking
- Better chance of getting a walk up seat.

Yup....I still think it's a good idea

The places that are busy and hard to get a reservation will still be busy and hard to get a reservation even with the CC hold. The places that are not busy will still be not busy even with the CC hold.

- More stress about where you are eating 6 months in advance with a penalty for not showing up if your kid gets sick. The popular restaurants will be booked full at 6 months out just like they are now.

- The number of people double booking is not what is causing the busy places to be busy and not have reservations available. Double booking is a non-issue.

- The Busy restaurants will still be hard to get a walk up because everyone is still going to show up for their reservation. The not busy restaurant will still not be busy because people are not walking up.

- The reservation lines will be just as busy with people asking questions and not booking when they find out about the penalty... and the people that are making reservations will take longer to make that reservation because of the added time to repeat back the credit card number so many times and the number of disclaimers they have to read about transportation time. Then add the people that call to cancel their reservations to the mix and you have more people on the line.

I just don't believe you are thinking it all the way though. People defended the automagic tip on a former version of the meal plan in much the same way... saying that the tip didn't lead to mediocre or lousy service at lousy places to eat. I say you have to be practical about how you consider what you do when you make these changes. There is a cost associated, and the change of adding a CC hold to every reservation is not going to change the places that are full where you can't get a reservation, and it is not going to change the places where you can walk up and be seated. It will just add administrative costs with out making the lousy restaurants full.

DVCsince02

01-26-2009, 11:29 AM

How about PIE? Would you like some PIE?

dpuck1998

01-26-2009, 11:31 AM

How about PIE? Would you like some PIE?

Ohh...Pie...what kind? I'm starving!

msce2

01-26-2009, 11:33 AM

I have to agree with wildeoscar here. There are certain restaurants that are worthy of a CC hold. And most of them (IE: CRT and HDDR) that are worthy already require a hold. I don't think it would be worth it to go straight across the board and say every TS needs to have the CC Hold. And believe me the nightmare that would ensue when people were charged with not showing for a reservation would tie up the phone lines they would have to hire more people. And I could almost guarantee you that when most people see the charge for the missed ressie or realize that they missed the ADR they will be calling to say that they were sick or had an emergency. Regardless of whether this was actually the case or not. It's a catch 22 for WDW because if you say well no matter what the situation you will be charged then no one will make ressies bc how can you guarantee that an emergency will not arise (and WDW looks unreasonable), but if you provide an out well then people will just abuse the system.

My personal opinion is that this needs to be selective to the restaurants who are experiencing the most difficulty.

cathie1327

01-26-2009, 11:46 AM

How about PIE? Would you like some PIE?

Some warm cherry pie sounds wonderful right now...... it's snowing and FREEZING here!!!! :goodvibes

DisneyKevin

01-26-2009, 11:59 AM

OK. but the places that are not busy now, will still not be busy because people are not going to want book with the possibility of a penalty at mediocre places to eat.

Theory...not fact. Whether you like a place or not, most Disney restaurants are still crowded to the point that non-Disney restaurants would kill for that level of business.

So when you walked in to Spoodles, with the reservations booked full, and the restaurant was empty, they refused to seat you? If they refused to seat you because they already had all the tables booked for reservations that people were not showing up, that is a management issue.

That's not what I said. They were happy to seat us. The folks on the Disney Dining line are in a call center at the north end of I-Drive...no where near Disney property. They work with a computer screen. They see that a restaurant is full and tell you "nothing available". It's a bright shiny day and you show up at the said full restaurant to find it empty. Folks got busy and didnt keep their reservations. The problem is not the folks walking up and being turned away because the tables are already reserved. I agree that would be stupid management. The problem is the people NOT walking up because Disney Dining is telling them that there is no availability.

If a restaurant with reservations that no one is showing up for is turning away walk ups, they are just stupid.

See above. Restaurants are not turning away walk ups when there are empty tables. Disney Dining is discouraging walk ups by telling people there is no availability.

It is easy to do a walk up and sit down to dinner at a place no one wants to eat.

Then you should have no worries about not having an ADR. As long as there is all this availability then the CC hold is a moot point. If you are certain that the restaurant at which you choose to dine will not be crowded....dont make an ADR.

The places that are busy and hard to get a reservation will still be busy and hard to get a reservation even with the CC hold. The places that are not busy will still be not busy even with the CC hold.

See above

- More stress about where you are eating 6 months in advance with a penalty for not showing up if your kid gets sick. The popular restaurants will be booked full at 6 months out just like they are now.

I agree...but the folks that have left a CC hold will either show up / cancel and then their table might be available to someone that does walk up or free up some of that time that people who did show up for their reservations are waiting

- The number of people double booking is not what is causing the busy places to be busy and not have reservations available. Double booking is a non-issue.

This is strictly opinion and not fact.

The Busy restaurants will still be hard to get a walk up because everyone is still going to show up for their reservation. The not busy restaurant will still not be busy because people are not walking up.

See above.

The reservation lines will be just as busy with people asking questions and not booking when they find out about the penalty... and the people that are making reservations will take longer to make that reservation because of the added time to repeat back the credit card number so many times and the number of disclaimers they have to read about transportation time. Then add the people that call to cancel their reservations to the mix and you have more people on the line.

Solving the hold time issue is a completelt different discussion.

I just don't believe you are thinking it all the way though. People defended the automagic tip on a former version of the meal plan in much the same way... saying that the tip didn't lead to mediocre or lousy service at lousy places to eat. I say you have to be practical about how you consider what you do when you make these changes. There is a cost associated, and the change of adding a CC hold to every reservation is not going to change the places that are full where you can't get a reservation, and it is not going to change the places where you can walk up and be seated. It will just add administrative costs with out making the lousy restaurants full.

I have thought it through and I still think it's a good idea.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Just to add a little fuel to the fire.

I was in Chicago this weekend, booked at a VERY POPULAR and expensive restaurant in downtown Chicago. Not only did I have a CC hold, they called me on my cell around noon that day and when I arrived I waited almost 45 mins to be seated.

the cc hold did not cause the place to be popular and expensive...they can get the cc hold because it is very popular and expensive. The logic does not hold up in reverse. Ya gotta put your causes and effects in the right places. CRT isn't expensive and booked solid because of the food, it is because of the location and meet and greet.

Spoodles wasn't empty because the reservations book was full... it was empty cause it was a nice day, and it doesn't draw a crowd on a nice day. If they made Spoodles a walk up only, it would still be empty on nice days. On that same day, Le Cellier was full and turning away walk ups, because they do that everyday, a cc hold won't change that.

dpuck1998

01-26-2009, 12:14 PM

the cc hold did not cause the place to be popular and expensive...they can get the cc hold because it is very popular and expensive. The logic does not hold up in reverse. Ya gotta put your causes and effects in the right places. CRT isn't expensive and booked solid because of the food, it is because of the location and meet and greet.

Spoodles wasn't empty because the reservations book was full... it was empty cause it was a nice day, and it doesn't draw a crowd on a nice day. If they made Spoodles a walk up only, it would still be empty on nice days. On that same day, Le Cellier was full and turning away walk ups, because they do that everyday, a cc hold won't change that.

I don't think I said or implied that! I was just making a statement that other places do this also. Not just Disney. The argument about popularity is a separate beast.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 12:36 PM

then solve the problem by making every restaurant a walk up and you will not be seated until your entire party is ready.

now I hope they do goto credit card hold for every reservation... just so I can say I told you so. gravity, relativity, and evolution are all theory... pretty sound theories I would add.

UrsulasShadow

01-26-2009, 12:45 PM

There are those restaurants that are very popular in every park, no matter the weather or time of year. There are those people who, not knowing which park they will be in, will book their favorite restaurant in each park. This will leave 3 very popular restaurants with full bookings in the system, when it should be 3 availabilities for someone else who CALLS for them, not walks up. This is where the CC hold would come in handy.

Releasing those ADRs after a certain time to walkups would be fine for the walkups, but unfair to those who would call for ADRs, and would mess up the timing of ADRs in that restaurant. I still think the CC hold is a good idea. It would discourage multiple ADRs, which I do believe to be a huge issue for diners. Sure, WDW may still make money, but if it makes the Dining Plan unpopular to make it so very difficult to get ADRs, that may encourage people to dine offsite. That is something that WDW would want to discourage at any cost.

DISNEYNV

01-26-2009, 12:48 PM

Yes! I really hope they implement this when making ADRs at Disney! It just makes sense:) Perhaps it will help the ADR "vampires" plan accordingly and in turn allow others who really desire a specific ADR to get the one they want not just think they MIGHT want that day!

WaltD4Me

01-26-2009, 12:50 PM

My problems with the CC hold on ADR's are many.

1. Disney would have to have CLEAR rules on this and all the CM's would need to know these rules and all give the same information as the reservation rep next to them. :rolleyes: (this kills it right here for me)

2. There are SO many things that can happen at Disney that is totally out of your control that can make you miss an ADR. I do not double book, I plan well and I have missed ADR's (not many) that I had every intention of honoring for reasons I had no control over.

3. To me, this adds MORE stress to my vacation. I'm already concerened about making ADR's, planning to make sure we get there on time, but to me it's more stressful if now you have to be worried about being charged if you can't make it. I admit to cancelling ADR's just an hour or 30 minutes beforehand. Unexpected things come up...once we were walking by POC and the Jack Sparrow show started, I couldn't drag my nieces away and didn't want to, so I called and cancelled our ADR because I knew we wouldn't make it. How do you allow for "magic" with a CC hold policy?

4. Will Disney have a way to verify and "forgive" a missed ADR charge if you miss it because of a reason that is their "fault?" Stuck on a ride? Bus broke down? Lack of buses? I know these things don't happen often, but they do happen. I got held up at AK last trip because my ticket wouldn't read, I had to wait in a quite a long line at Guest Services to get it fixed, I didn't have an ADR, but should I have been charged if I did and missed it over the ticket problem?

And yes, I know other restaurants like the one in Chicao do the CC hold, I can think of two here that do it, but that is ONE meal you are planning for, chances are much better than you will make that
reservation. The odds of missing a reservation go way up when you are booking 5 to 10 of them on a vacation. I'm not talking about double bookers or people who abuse the ADR system either. Good planning and intentions can't guarantee you are going to make every ADR on vacation.

I agree that Disney needs to do something and I admit I don't know what that is, but I just don't think a CC for all ADR's is the way to go.

BriarRosie

01-26-2009, 12:59 PM

I still agree with the idea, and I've even had to put down a credit card to hold a reservation at California Grill. I would completely understand if they'd charge me a no-show fee due to the amount of people who want to dine there vs. amount of ADRs available.

I think Kevin hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that people won't try to get a walk up if they are told there is no available dining times for that venue that day.

I know I wouldn't bother, figuring I'd be wasting my time.

And double bookings? Just check the Restaurant board. Anyone just asks about considering double booking, and the swarm of naysayers will jump all over the poor person asking. (I know this because I just witnessed such a posting over the weekend.) I frown upon it, but I will at least be respectful to the person about disagreeing with it.

There are people who have gleefully post that they had multiple ADRs for a single meal time and just picked the one they felt like keeping. That essentially shuts out any other parties who wanted to dine at the other location(s) they didn't keep. Most of the time they do cancel the ADR, but still, I'm sure plenty of people don't.

Disney has caught people double booking and canceled their ADRs, which then makes those who double book find a different way around "the system"

I definitely support a potential change requiring a credit card hold.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 01:32 PM

Theory...not fact. Whether you like a place or not, most Disney restaurants are still crowded to the point that non-Disney restaurants would kill for that level of business.

You are trying to discount logic by calling it a theory.

At busy times of year all the restaurants are busy and reservations are important because with out one you have no chance of getting seated, this is when demand exceeds supply. When demand exceeds supply the credit card hold doesn't matter, the seats will be filled even at lousy restaurants.

At lower occupancy times of year when supply exceeds demand the credit card hold doesn't matter because you can walk into the lousy restaurants and be seated. At lower occupancy times of year the locations that are always busy, will still be busy... the cc hold doesn't matter because they don't take walk ups and everyone is showing up for the reservations that were made 6 months ago.

It is hard to get reservations at some locations no matter the time of year. The credit card hold doesn't matter because people keep the reservation they made 6 months prior, and if there does happen to be an extra table they can fill it with a walk up. The busy locations get walk up requests even when Disney Dining is telling them there is no availability. The lousy locations where people didn't feel a need to keep the reservation don't get the walk ups because they are lousy restaurants. People will just take Disney Dinings word for it because the place is not worth the effort to walk over and ask for a walk up.

That's not what I said. They were happy to seat us. The folks on the Disney Dining line are in a call center at the north end of I-Drive...no where near Disney property. They work with a computer screen. They see that a restaurant is full and tell you "nothing available". It's a bright shiny day and you show up at the said full restaurant to find it empty. Folks got busy and didnt keep their reservations. The problem is not the folks walking up and being turned away because the tables are already reserved. I agree that would be stupid management. The problem is the people NOT walking up because Disney Dining is telling them that there is no availability.

So the day of... when people start not showing up, there are frantic calls of folks trying to book? If it is a nice day, and the location has no drawing power, they could put characters in costumes and parade them around and still not get a crowd... oh wait, they did that at liberty tree tavern... lousy food, couldn't draw a crowd, throw in some characters, bang you have a busy place where people keep their reservations. So again, even if Spoodles were to delete all the reservations on the books, and show availability, it would still not be busy because it does not have drawing power on a nice day. If Spoodles didn't take reservations and was a walk up, it would not be busy on a nice day because it does not have drawing power. Just because it is a theory doesn't make it any less true.

See above. Restaurants are not turning away walk ups when there are empty tables. Disney Dining is discouraging walk ups by telling people there is no availability.

and people would still not be walking up to restaurants that have no drawing power on nice days regardless of the reservations book. and people will still be walking up and asking if there are any tables at le cellier when they are being told there is no availability

Then you should have no worries about not having an ADR. As long as there is all this availability then the CC hold is a moot point. If you are certain that the restaurant at which you choose to dine will not be crowded....dont make an ADR.

the places that will take you as a walk up are places I don't really want to eat. I have willingly put down the cc hold for cali grill and some other places that require it. There will never be a day that I would put a cc hold for lousy Chinese food. During the busy weeks of easter, spring break, thanksgiving, christmas and new years... if the only reservation you can get is 9 dragons then by all means put down the card for a hold... I would drive over to McDs or get a burger at counter service instead of putting down the cc hold cause I can get lousy Chinese food at home for half the cost.

See above

how about 'sea' above... I can try to demonstrate that lousy restaurants get less patrons while eating sad crab cakes with nemo and friends under the sea while actually eating nemo's friends.

I agree...but the folks that have left a CC hold will either show up / cancel and then their table might be available to someone that does walk up or free up some of that time that people who did show up for their reservations are waiting

if they don't show up, the table is still available regardless if they were billed for the cc hold or didn't cancel the reservation. Popular places will fill the spot with a walk up that decided to ask anyway... less popular places people won't make the effort.

This is strictly opinion and not fact.

there are already safeguards to prevent casual double booking, people that are serious about double booking you won't stop regardless of safeguards... even with cc hold, people can book two reservations wait till they get close enough to their vacation to decide, cancel the one they are not using with in the window of opportunity. Which would leave the same result of giving the appearance a place is full when it is not. Even if reservations become available the day of, the busy places would fill those reservations, or fill those seats with walk ups, the lousy places would not get inquires. (this assumes a low attendance time of year) during the holidays and busy season the seats would get filled with walk ups regardless of what disney dining is telling people, cause people would still be asking.

the number of people double booking that know how to double book are small and the number of people that know how to double book are small. And double booking doesn't matter cause empty tables at popular locations are filled with walk ups, empty tables at lousy restaurants are empty for reasons that have nothing to with reservations other than having reservations about eating at a lousy restaurant.

See above.

sea salt;)

Solving the hold time issue is a completely different discussion.

I agree

I have thought it through and I still think it's a good idea.

smart people can disagree, so it is a good thing we are both pretty and smart.

SnackyStacky

01-26-2009, 01:33 PM

If life gets in the way...oh well....give the ticket away or sell it, but there are no refunds.

I just don't see a dinner reservation in the same line as a concert ticket, plane ticket, or hotel reservation. There's insurance you can purchase on some of those things so that if life DOES get in the way, you can get your money back. That's not available, nor do I think it should be available on a dinner reservation.

Further - a concert has a set time - as do flight schedules and even hotels have a schedule for checking in and checking out. You can try your best to make a schedule - but you stopped for something at a snack cart in Epcot and you're not hungry for dinner anymore. That snack has now cost you $30 because a moment of spontenaiety has killed your appetite.

Disney has every right to make money and set forth the policies that they'd like; but, to quote Merry Weather from Sleeping Beauty, "I still think what I thunk before!"

I like the idea in theory.

I will reserve judgement on the implementation until it is actually implemented. And hope that they do it in a way that does leave some wiggle room.

wildeoscar

01-26-2009, 01:42 PM

I don't think I said or implied that! I was just making a statement that other places do this also. Not just Disney. The argument about popularity is a separate beast.

I was just extending my metaphor... that is not as dirty as it sounds. There are places that can get the cc hold, there are places that can get $9 for a warm beer, we call those places baseball stadiums.

some restaurants in WDW can get the cc hold... most cannot.

WaltD4Me

01-26-2009, 05:42 PM

I just don't see a dinner reservation in the same line as a concert ticket, plane ticket, or hotel reservation.

I will reserve judgement on the implementation until it is actually implemented. And hope that they do it in a way that does leave some wiggle room.

I have to agree. If you get stuck in traffic going to a concert, you can still go to the concert if you are half an hour or even an hour late, not true for an ADR, same with a hotel reservation, you can check in at 11am or 11pm and they don't charge you if you are late. And at concerts, you purchased that seat and it is guaranteed, they don't fill your seat with someone else if you don't show up.

dpuck1998

01-26-2009, 07:01 PM

I was just extending my metaphor... that is not as dirty as it sounds. There are places that can get the cc hold, there are places that can get $9 for a warm beer, we call those places baseball stadiums.

some restaurants in WDW can get the cc hold... most cannot.

One might argue that every Disney restaurant is as popular or more popular that most any restaurant in major cities.

DisneyKevin

01-26-2009, 07:19 PM

You are trying to discount logic by calling it a theory.

At busy times of year all the restaurants are busy and reservations are important because with out one you have no chance of getting seated, this is when demand exceeds supply. When demand exceeds supply the credit card hold doesn't matter, the seats will be filled even at lousy restaurants.

At lower occupancy times of year when supply exceeds demand the credit card hold doesn't matter because you can walk into the lousy restaurants and be seated. At lower occupancy times of year the locations that are always busy, will still be busy... the cc hold doesn't matter because they don't take walk ups and everyone is showing up for the reservations that were made 6 months ago.

It is hard to get reservations at some locations no matter the time of year. The credit card hold doesn't matter because people keep the reservation they made 6 months prior, and if there does happen to be an extra table they can fill it with a walk up. The busy locations get walk up requests even when Disney Dining is telling them there is no availability. The lousy locations where people didn't feel a need to keep the reservation don't get the walk ups because they are lousy restaurants. People will just take Disney Dinings word for it because the place is not worth the effort to walk over and ask for a walk up..

You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

I called Disney Dining to see if we could get an ADR for Spoodles. Disney Dining tells me Spoodles is completely booked.

We drive to Spoodles to try and get a walk up. The place is empty. The manager says that this is a frequent occurence. People make reservations and if the weather is too nice, they decide to stay in the park. If it rains they go somewhere else.

I have no idea how many other people called Disney Dining on that day looking for Spoodles, but they were told that Sppodles was completely booked solid.

If even one guest was discouraged from dining at Spoodles because of this....Disney is going to see this as a problem and fix it

The discussion of whether the food is good or bad or it's high season or low season or if this guy ROI you keep talking about is there or not... is irelevant.

Guests calling Disney Dining as they are supposed to, are being told that there is no availability. This has noothing to do with the errant walk up. They are not being turned away.

So the day of... when people start not showing up, there are frantic calls of folks trying to book? If it is a nice day, and the location has no drawing power, they could put characters in costumes and parade them around and still not get a crowd... oh wait, they did that at liberty tree tavern... lousy food, couldn't draw a crowd, throw in some characters, bang you have a busy place where people keep their reservations. So again, even if Spoodles were to delete all the reservations on the books, and show availability, it would still not be busy because it does not have drawing power on a nice day. If Spoodles didn't take reservations and was a walk up, it would not be busy on a nice day because it does not have drawing power. Just because it is a theory doesn't make it any less true.

No one has said anything about frantic calls and again, the discussion of quality is irelevant.

now I hope they do goto credit card hold for every reservation... just so I can say I told you so. gravity, relativity, and evolution are all theory... pretty sound theories I would add.

Are you comparing your restaurant theory to the theories of gravity, relativity and evolution?

Maybe schools will start teaching it as part of restaurant science. ;)

cocowum

01-26-2009, 07:26 PM

So how about them Marlins? Think they'll go all the way? popcorn::

Launchpad11B

01-26-2009, 07:29 PM

So how about them Marlins? Think they'll go all the way? popcorn::

You don't even know what sport the Marlins play!!! :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

cocowum

01-26-2009, 07:30 PM

You don't even know what sport the Marlins play!!! :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

Shhh! Get back in the kitchen!

dpuck1998

01-26-2009, 07:45 PM

Shhh! Get back in the kitchen!

and make me a pie!

wildeoscar

01-27-2009, 12:48 AM

You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

The world is a complex place, full of complex problems. Very few of the world's problems can be solved in a sound byte. You are not taking into account unintended consequences and drawing the wrong conclusions from the spoodles example. If you have no one showing up for reservations, does it matter if you show availability or not? These are people that took the time to pick up the phone and make the reservation all not showing up that the same time. You think it is because they did not show availability that the restaurant is empty? Did a full restaurant's worth of people all double book Spoodles as their back up plan? Or could it be that when it is nice, people don't leave the parks early to walk 20 min. to diner?

I called Disney Dining to see if we could get an ADR for Spoodles. Disney Dining tells me Spoodles is completely booked.

We drive to Spoodles to try and get a walk up. The place is empty. The manager says that this is a frequent occurence. People make reservations and if the weather is too nice, they decide to stay in the park. If it rains they go somewhere else.

I have no idea how many other people called Disney Dining on that day looking for Spoodles, but they were told that Sppodles was completely booked solid.

It is a great story and you tell it so well, but it does not mean the reservations system is systemically flawed.

Are you comparing your restaurant theory to the theories of gravity, relativity and evolution?

yes

Maybe schools will start teaching it as part of restaurant science. ;)

They do teach it in university, it is called econometrics. It is part of most masters programs for anything related to business

http://web.econ.ohio-state.edu/courses/900.htm

there have been a few recent books on the topic...

Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions (http://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Hidden-Forces-Decisions/dp/006135323X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233033580&sr=8-1)

Sway (http://www.amazon.com/Sway-Irresistible-Pull-Irrational-Behavior/dp/0385524382/ref=pd_sim_b_2)

The Logic of Life (http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Life-Rational-Economics-Irrational/dp/1400066425/ref=pd_sim_b_5)

Pick two, get them on audible. Or go though the masters program at Ohio State. Or go though the Culinary Program at Johnson & Wells here in Charlotte. I brought this topic up to some high caliber minds today, two of whom used to be Executive Chefs at WDW, all agree that the result would not be more availability at the busy restaurants and the cost is substantially more than the perceived benefit. And that no one wants to leave the parks and walk 20 min. to eat at a mediocre restaurant at 5pm when they can eat mediocre food in the park.

No one has said anything about frantic calls and again, the discussion of quality is irelevant.

the Spoodles story is the irrelevant factor. you are using a rationalizing argument from the narrow to the broad. the restaurant would have been empty if disney dining showed availability. The restaurant was not empty because Disney Dining was showing no availability. the restaurant was empty because no one wants to leave the parks to have dinner at 5pm on a nice day.

I try to use examples to illustrate the situation more clearly... What is the number of people that called Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm and were turned away? I am guessing the number is statistically irrelevant. What happened in your situation does not cost justify the expenditure to take a CC hold for every restaurant. I have stated many times, the places that are not busy will still not be busy... the places that are busy will still be busy. There is a lot of wisdom in that statement that you are overlooking.

The discussion of whether the food is good or bad or it's high season or low season or if this guy ROI you keep talking about is there or not... is irelevant.

For a company that is interested in maximizing profits, they are not going to spend the money to make this happen with out seeing a Return On Investment. The change you suggest would not have the practical result you insist that it would. This is not Theory, it is the practical application of self interest. No one will plunk down a credit card with the possibility of getting hit with a $20 per person penalty (which is the current average for the restaurants at WDW doing the CC hold) for a majority of the restaurants in WDW. Those that can command that fee, already do. The places that would have availability because no one is going to make a reservation with that high a penalty already have availability from the people not showing up for their reservations. No one that knows enough about how to double book is going to use Spoodles as a back up choice. Putting cc hold in place will result in restaurants like spoodles being empty with an empty reservations book instead of a full reservations book. They can take you as a walk up either way... but there are not going to be walk ups at Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm because those people are in the parks. the money to train and implement staff, and ramp up back end servers to accept the load is a waste... This analysis is over simplified for the sake of brevity. But once again... the restaurants that are busy and hard to get reservations, will still be busy and hard to get reservations.

cathie1327

01-27-2009, 12:50 AM

You don't even know what sport the Marlins play!!! :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

:rotfl2:

DisneyKevin

01-27-2009, 08:02 AM

The world is a complex place, full of complex problems. Very few of the world's problems can be solved in a sound byte. You are not taking into account unintended consequences and drawing the wrong conclusions from the spoodles example. If you have no one showing up for reservations, does it matter if you show availability or not? These are people that took the time to pick up the phone and make the reservation all not showing up that the same time. You think it is because they did not show availability that the restaurant is empty? Did a full restaurant's worth of people all double book Spoodles as their back up plan? Or could it be that when it is nice, people don't leave the parks early to walk 20 min. to diner?

It is a great story and you tell it so well, but it does not mean the reservations system is systemically flawed.

yes

They do teach it in university, it is called econometrics. It is part of most masters programs for anything related to business

http://web.econ.ohio-state.edu/courses/900.htm

there have been a few recent books on the topic...

Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions (http://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Hidden-Forces-Decisions/dp/006135323X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233033580&sr=8-1)

Sway (http://www.amazon.com/Sway-Irresistible-Pull-Irrational-Behavior/dp/0385524382/ref=pd_sim_b_2)

The Logic of Life (http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Life-Rational-Economics-Irrational/dp/1400066425/ref=pd_sim_b_5)

Pick two, get them on audible. Or go though the masters program at Ohio State. Or go though the Culinary Program at Johnson & Wells here in Charlotte. I brought this topic up to some high caliber minds today, two of whom used to be Executive Chefs at WDW, all agree that the result would not be more availability at the busy restaurants and the cost is substantially more than the perceived benefit. And that no one wants to leave the parks and walk 20 min. to eat at a mediocre restaurant at 5pm when they can eat mediocre food in the park.

the Spoodles story is the irrelevant factor. you are using a rationalizing argument from the narrow to the broad. the restaurant would have been empty if disney dining showed availability. The restaurant was not empty because Disney Dining was showing no availability. the restaurant was empty because no one wants to leave the parks to have dinner at 5pm on a nice day.

I try to use examples to illustrate the situation more clearly... What is the number of people that called Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm and were turned away? I am guessing the number is statistically irrelevant. What happened in your situation does not cost justify the expenditure to take a CC hold for every restaurant. I have stated many times, the places that are not busy will still not be busy... the places that are busy will still be busy. There is a lot of wisdom in that statement that you are overlooking.

For a company that is interested in maximizing profits, they are not going to spend the money to make this happen with out seeing a Return On Investment. The change you suggest would not have the practical result you insist that it would. This is not Theory, it is the practical application of self interest. No one will plunk down a credit card with the possibility of getting hit with a $20 per person penalty (which is the current average for the restaurants at WDW doing the CC hold) for a majority of the restaurants in WDW. Those that can command that fee, already do. The places that would have availability because no one is going to make a reservation with that high a penalty already have availability from the people not showing up for their reservations. No one that knows enough about how to double book is going to use Spoodles as a back up choice. Putting cc hold in place will result in restaurants like spoodles being empty with an empty reservations book instead of a full reservations book. They can take you as a walk up either way... but there are not going to be walk ups at Spoodles on a nice day at 5pm because those people are in the parks. the money to train and implement staff, and ramp up back end servers to accept the load is a waste... This analysis is over simplified for the sake of brevity. But once again... the restaurants that are busy and hard to get reservations, will still be busy and hard to get reservations.

While I'm certainly glad that you enjoy my Spoodles story, at no point have I suggested that I know how to fill a mediocre restaurant at 5:00pm.

I have suggested that if a guests is told restaurant Z has no availability due to reservations being filled, they will go elsewhere. If the case is that the restaurant is not actually filled for whatever reason, this is a problem.

While I havent asked any high caliber minds or ex Disney castmembers whether this is true or not, as a business owner, I would see it as a problem.

Turning away business is not good for business and having guests (even one)hear from an employee looking at a computer screen 10 miles away that a restaurant is showing no availability will discourage that guest from visiting you establishment.

This means that you not only have an empty restaurant, you have a guest that was interested going somewhere else.

As I said already, that's bad for business.

jcb

01-27-2009, 08:29 AM

Isn't the bottom line not simple logic but what will make Disney more money?

I can like the potential collateral consequnce all I want but if the bean counters at Disney conclude this will make them an extra $ a year, and marketing likes it (due to "guest demand"), all the good or bad consequences to me mean zilch.

If it happens, and remember this is a rumor (so far as I last heard), I expect a test run at several of the more popular locations before (if) it is implemented at all locations. Some may never require cc for a reservation.

UrsulasShadow

01-27-2009, 09:05 AM

While I'm certainly glad that you enjoy my Spoodles story, at no point have I suggested that I know how to fill a mediocre restaurant at 5:00pm.

I have suggested that if a guests is told restaurant Z has no availability due to reservations being filled, they will go elsewhere. If the case is that the restaurant is not actually filled for whatever reason, this is a problem.

While I havent asked any high caliber minds or ex Disney castmembers whether this is true or not, as a business owner, I would see it as a problem.

Turning away business is not good for business and having guests (even one)hear from an employee looking at a computer screen 10 miles away that a restaurant is showing no availability will discourage that guest from visiting you establishment.

This means that you not only have an empty restaurant, you have a guest that was interested going somewhere else.

As I said already, that's bad for business.

HIJACK:

KEVIN!!! You're POSTING!!! How are you doing? Did you have your surgery?

Disney Khi

01-27-2009, 09:29 AM

HIJACK:

KEVIN!!! You're POSTING!!! How are you doing? Did you have your surgery?

This is what I am wondering, too! This ADR thing must really be bothering him!!

DisneyKevin

01-27-2009, 09:45 AM

I have time to kill waiting for the DR to call.

I'm doing ok....not in any pain......just a bit scared and nervous, buut better than yesterday when I learned all of this.

Just waiting for them to schedule surgery. This would have been done last night had we not stopped and gotten lunch on the way to the Retina specialist.

Trying to keep my head busy.....

jblrn2b

01-27-2009, 09:52 AM

I was wondering if you were supposed to be on the computer? - sorry its the nurse in me.

crazydisneyman

01-27-2009, 09:59 AM

Disney Khi

01-27-2009, 10:05 AM

I'm glad to hear you're doing okay, Kevin. Ugh, waiting can be the hardest part of these things! It would be much easier to just get it done immediately without giving your imagination time to run wild. (At least that's how it is with me.)

Here's a little feel better soon gift: :flower3:

scarlett873

01-27-2009, 10:10 AM

ADP

01-27-2009, 10:47 AM

bytheblood

01-27-2009, 10:59 AM

This is brilliant. I hope it comes to fruition.

Launchpad11B

01-27-2009, 11:01 AM

shellyminnie

01-27-2009, 11:02 AM

sau418

01-28-2009, 01:39 PM

Just my .2 We are planning to go to WDW in June. I have scheduled 2 ADRs CRT and Chef Mickey's. I would love to plan more, but I have two toddlers, who 99% of the time are great in sit down restaurants, but I can not plan exact times 3 months out from our vacation and guarantee that those times are going to be good for us. I am all for a CC reservation system. I think it stinks that because I plan to relax and enjoy a slower pace without having every minute planned I am pretty much screwed for some great sit down meals. I will not schedule ADRs and then not show because nap time is running late or DD wants to ride Dumbo a third time.

SnackyStacky

01-28-2009, 01:50 PM

I think it stinks that because I plan to relax and enjoy a slower pace without having every minute planned I am pretty much screwed for some great sit down meals.

I agree with this completely. The only reason I make a reservation is because I'm afraid without them - I won't be able to eat!

Instead of taking a credit card 3 months in advance, I think MOST restaurants should NOT take reservations. I think the character meals would still need them - but the rest, I think, should take just walk-ups, or people should stop at Guest Relations on the way into a park and make reservations the day of. It allows for spontenaiety, and prevents double bookings, and I don't have to worry that my schedule won't allow for what I'm booking 3 months in advance.

While we're making a wish list - can I also say I wish that as long as we DO need to make ADRs - can Disney NOT release park hours AND open dining booking at the same time? Release park hours 4 months in advance, and let us make the stinking dining 3 months in advance!

UrsulasShadow

01-28-2009, 02:59 PM

I agree with this completely. The only reason I make a reservation is because I'm afraid without them - I won't be able to eat!

Instead of taking a credit card 3 months in advance, I think MOST restaurants should NOT take reservations. I think the character meals would still need them - but the rest, I think, should take just walk-ups, or people should stop at Guest Relations on the way into a park and make reservations the day of. It allows for spontenaiety, and prevents double bookings, and I don't have to worry that my schedule won't allow for what I'm booking 3 months in advance.

While we're making a wish list - can I also say I wish that as long as we DO need to make ADRs - can Disney NOT release park hours AND open dining booking at the same time? Release park hours 4 months in advance, and let us make the stinking dining 3 months in advance!
I remember back in the day, you could walk in to the park, go to a kiosk, and actually make your reservations for the day. Ahhh, memories!

And I fully agree with you about releasing park hours BEFORE opening up dining. Who's the Einstein that thought it was a good idea to let you make your ADRS before you had any notion of where you were intending to be that day???

DVCJones

01-28-2009, 08:52 PM

I agree with this completely. The only reason I make a reservation is because I'm afraid without them - I won't be able to eat!

Instead of taking a credit card 3 months in advance, I think MOST restaurants should NOT take reservations. I think the character meals would still need them - but the rest, I think, should take just walk-ups, or people should stop at Guest Relations on the way into a park and make reservations the day of. It allows for spontenaiety, and prevents double bookings, and I don't have to worry that my schedule won't allow for what I'm booking 3 months in advance.

While we're making a wish list - can I also say I wish that as long as we DO need to make ADRs - can Disney NOT release park hours AND open dining booking at the same time? Release park hours 4 months in advance, and let us make the stinking dining 3 months in advance!

The used to do this back in the 80's. I remember my parents making dinner reservations on the phones that used to be under Spaceship Earth at EPCOT.

sau418

01-29-2009, 12:58 PM

Not that it makes sense, but maybe the point of opening ADRs before park hours are announced is supposed to cut down on people making ADR's so far in advance?