I propose standard view Beach Club Villa's...

[DanenRox]

This is the second time I've stayed at BCV and been assigned a room with a view of a busy road and again I wonder why this room view doesn't qualify for a reduced point stay. I find the view and the noise level far less desirable than the standard view rooms at Boardwalk Villa. Oh yes, I can see the top of the EPCOT ball and pieces of Illuminations at night---bits and pieces. I LOVE to sit on my balcony at least a part of every Disney day...but to watch and hear passing cars does not take me away to a peaceful place. I'guess DVC figures if I can see sprinkles of fireworks for several minutes at night I'll disregard the terrible view for the remaining 23 hours and 52 minutes a day. Again, the standard BWV view is more tranquil and more appealing. I propose the road view at BCV be a reduced point view. Oh yes I do.

[DebbieB]

But then the other room's points would have to be raised to balance it. It's already sold out, I don't think that would go over well. I think they did it at BWV because there is a huge difference between looking at the lake vs looking at the driveway. I don't think it's as big a difference at BCV, it's either road/Epcot, woods or pool.

[Muushka]

There are rooms at VWL that I believe should also get a discount on the points. And if they had to raise the points in the more desirable rooms, so be it.

And since they have gotten the view thing going again with the new DVC's, they can't use that as an excuse any more.

OP, I'm with you.

[DebbieB]

I think it would be difficult to go back and reshuffle the points at a soldout resort. They do have the right to do that but it's supposed to be due to seasonal demands, not to reorganize the view categories. When they did it at BWV, it was very early on and they just adjusted the number of total points available to be sold, they didn't raise the points on preferred.

[shellybaxter]

I love the BCV view of the road and the fireworks. I would be very happy to get that view guarenteed with less points

[Deb & Bill]

At BCV there really isn't a prime view. Every one is a bit lacking. So you make them all standard and make them the same points. Exactly what you have now.

Same with VWL. Unless you like trees, don't book at VWL. Just about every view is a tree/woods view. The five or six rooms that have a nicer view wouldn't be worth all the extra points you'd have to assign them to make up for reducing the points on the other rooms.

[LIFERBABE]

At BCV there really isn't a prime view. Every one is a bit lacking. So you make them all standard and make them the same points. Exactly what you have now.

Same with VWL. Unless you like trees, don't book at VWL. Just about every view is a tree/woods view. The five or six rooms that have a nicer view wouldn't be worth all the extra points you'd have to assign them to make up for reducing the points on the other rooms.

I agree, staying at BCV for the view is like eating at Chef Mickey's for the food:goodvibes
Love it there, but I spend most of my time out front by the lake and SAB.

[DanenRox]

I don't mind "no view"....or a view of trees, a patch of grass, a flower pot. I just really don't enjoy a view of passing cars. Disney works so hard throughout their resort to hide/obscure cars/roadways/road noise...hiding all the reminders of reality may be what Disney does best. So to check in this otherwise beautiful Villa and get a view of a roadway is sooo disappointing to me. In the future I ask front desk to help me avoid this view. If I was sitting at a bar (or a restaurant) next to DVC's top dog, I would re-pitch my "standard point" case....I think it's absolutely valid!

[eliza61]

There are rooms at VWL that I believe should also get a discount on the points. And if they had to raise the points in the more desirable rooms, so be it.

And since they have gotten the view thing going again with the new DVC's, they can't use that as an excuse any more.

OP, I'm with you.

Aagh bite your tongue Muushka,
No way would I support a point raise especially for a room view. Remember BCV's was built after the resort was up so it was definitely hindered as to options.
Op, while you may think it's valid, why not post a poll to see how many folks here would support your view. My vote is a definite No way.
I've always found that the easiest way for me to deal with a bad view (if it truly upset me) is to simple go downstairs and request another room. I don't think I should be penalized because you don't like your view. Sorry.

[zalansky]

They won't change the point charts I am sure, but I do agree that the road view is god awful. I am sensitive to outside noise at night and hearing cars go by constantly takes away from the experience. Especially when you walk to Epcot and use the walkway behind the buildings and see all those people enjoying their wooded/Epcot views. :headache:

[Granny]

I propose the road view at BCV be a reduced point view.

I'm not big on re-shuffling points at any resort, but I do think that every resort should have guaranteed booking view categories. I am quite sure that MS could compile a list for every resort of the most common requests for room location and set that up as a separate booking category (no difference in points).

That way, the owners of a resort would get first shot at those rooms as they should. And everyone would have a better idea of what they are getting when they book.

This concept works well at BWV (2 Preferred View categories with same points) and now OKW. It seems they should be able to do something like this fairly easily. At a resort like SSR, I think it should be implemented as soon as possible since there is such a big discrepancy in various locations. Just my two cents.

YMMV :)

[Muushka]

Aagh bite your tongue Muushka,
No way would I support a point raise especially for a room view. Remember BCV's was built after the resort was up so it was definitely hindered as to options.
Op, while you may think it's valid, why not post a poll to see how many folks here would support your view. My vote is a definite No way.
I've always found that the easiest way for me to deal with a bad view (if it truly upset me) is to simple go downstairs and request another room. I don't think I should be penalized because you don't like your view. Sorry.

I'm not big on re-shuffling points at any resort, but I do think that every resort should have guaranteed booking view categories. I am quite sure that MS could compile a list for every resort of the most common requests for room location and set that up as a separate booking category (no difference in points).

That way, the owners of a resort would get first shot at those rooms as they should. And everyone would have a better idea of what they are getting when they book.

This concept works well at BWV (2 Preferred View categories with same points) and now OKW. It seems they should be able to do something like this fairly easily. At a resort like SSR, I think it should be implemented as soon as possible since there is such a big discrepancy in various locations. Just my two cents.

YMMV :)

Mornin' Eliza, Granny :wave:

I remember our very first time at VWL getting a 1 BR (the studio idea only worked once!). The CM showed us on the map where the room was and we knew right away what the view was and asked her please, can't we get another room. She flatly told us no, that was it. Or move into it and move back out tomorrow for the fee and aggravation. We stayed.

But it was in that room that we were so disappointed with the view that we wrote member services and asked about point restructure. View is very important to us.

I would be willing to pay the extra points to have a good view and I would be willing to save points and have the bad view, but the way it is now, it is not right.

Then you have non-owners and people renting points that know exactly what to ask for when checking in (this is why I never answer the question 'Which room has the best view'? Owners do not get any preference.

Granny has summed it up very well. Give the owners preferential treatment. Isn't that what they do at SSR and OKW? Or restructure the points. One or the other.

Same goes for BCV. We have been lucky there, but having a room on the road would not be good.

[shellybaxter]

I have read several of the "guarenteed booking category" threads and the one concern that resinates with me is the concern that it could be harder to get a reservation at the resorts for the same room. For example, right now at BCV you reserve - lets say - a one bedroom for ten days. Right now DVC can book you into any 1 bedroom that is open for that amount of time. If there were booking catagories DVC would only be able to offer you a one bedroom in one category at a time. Lets say there was a value view catagory but it was only available for five days then you would have to move to a regular view. I don't like to move that much so I would not like a policy that made moving more likely

[tjkraz]

At BCV there really isn't a prime view. Every one is a bit lacking. So you make them all standard and make them the same points. Exactly what you have now

I totally agree!

We stayed there once and despite being on the top floor with a great view of the Epcot fireworks, I have little desire to go again. Other than the 20 minutes of fireworks, our room was really a "road view" with traffic passing by all day. The pool and woods views aren't much better comparatively speaking. A BoardWalk view at BWV costs the same number of points or there are many other options which are cheaper (BWV Standard, several AKV categories, SSR, OKW.)

SAB is nice but it's still "waterpark lite." I'd rather pay a few dollars more for TL or BB.

I have read several of the "guarenteed booking category" threads and the one concern that resinates with me is the concern that it could be harder to get a reservation at the resorts for the same room.

That's very true and it's the one valid argument against any sort of categories. BCV would not be a good candidate since it's so small (just over 200 units) and occupancy is so high.

But I think 500+ unit OKW absorbed the categories fairly well and SSR could certainly function with 2 or 3 separate categories. These two resorts are often at less than 100% occupancy. Whenever that's the case the categories shouldn't cause any problems with reservations. Yes, there would be times when people would be forced to split their reservation in order to book all of the desired dates. But these would (hopefully!) be few and far between. And the categories are still justifiable if they serve the greater good.

[Deb & Bill]

Do other timeshares have booking categories like DVC? There weren't any booking categories until DVC decided that some of the rooms at BWV were a bit lacking in the view and, thus, the Standard view.

I'd rather do away with all booking categories.

[CarolA]

This is the second time I've stayed at BCV and been assigned a room with a view of a busy road and again I wonder why this room view doesn't qualify for a reduced point stay. I find the view and the noise level far less desirable than the standard view rooms at Boardwalk Villa. Oh yes, I can see the top of the EPCOT ball and pieces of Illuminations at night---bits and pieces. I LOVE to sit on my balcony at least a part of every Disney day...but to watch and hear passing cars does not take me away to a peaceful place. I'guess DVC figures if I can see sprinkles of fireworks for several minutes at night I'll disregard the terrible view for the remaining 23 hours and 52 minutes a day. Again, the standard BWV view is more tranquil and more appealing. I propose the road view at BCV be a reduced point view. Oh yes I do.


I propose that ALl of these proporals GO AWAY. Chopping a resort up into little "categories" is just making a booking nightmare.
IMHO changes like this AFTER the initial sale should not be allowed!!!!! I knew what I was buying when I bought and if having a specific "view" was important then I should not have bought where one was not guranteed! (and yes I have had this view at BCV several times. I have managed to survive just fine and failed to need to complain, whine or petetion for change!)

Guess I have to write DVC and tell them that NO just because SOME members are FOR this, that does not mean everyone is!

[Muushka]

I propose that ALl of these proporals GO AWAY. Chopping a resort up into little "categories" is just making a booking nightmare.
IMHO changes like this AFTER the initial sale should not be allowed!!!!! I knew what I was buying when I bought and if having a specific "view" was important then I should not have bought where one was not guranteed! (and yes I have had this view at BCV several times. I have managed to survive just fine and failed to need to complain, whine or petetion for change!)

Guess I have to write DVC and tell them that NO just because SOME members are FOR this, that does not mean everyone is!

Don't hold back your feelings Carol! Just let us know how you really feel!:lmao:

Little categories, 2. Total. Plus, 2 resorts (OKW and SSR if I remember correctly) have given preferred locations for owners. What is wrong with that?

[bobbiwoz]

I think it's a shame that SSR owners can't pick the section they want when they make their reservation. Now the exception will be the treehouses, and since they're the same number of points as a 2 bedroom, I hope that MS gets it right for everyone's reservation. Maybe though, when they begin booking treehouses, maybe then, SSR will get some booking preference categories.

Bobbi:goodvibes

PS. I've had road views at BCV, yes I thought it noisy on the balcony...in fact, I think the dedicated 2 bedroom that we had in November would be one of those. It was too cold to use the balcony, probably the first time ever that I only went out on it once. I don't think it would be desirable to segment BCV categories.

PPS. I think VWL check in people think we like the far end rooms because that's what we often get....referred to as dumpster view, but more significant in my mind as the far end of the hallway. Just for the record, I'm OK with leaving the point structure alone for that one too. I look in the trees, not down...I've seen lots of birds. Yes, there's also delivery people...I don't know, I can see people's point, but it's such a small resort, I would hate to have to change rooms during a vacation just for the view.

[Disneypirate85]

I too support owners preferred location. I mean THEY OWN IT! Someone comes along rents points and bumps a true owner out is very very sad:sad2:
HOWEVER changing it all now after sell out could be a nightmare, noway it will please every owner.pirate:

[Muushka]

I think it's a shame that SSR owners can't pick the section they want when they make their reservation. Now the exception will be the treehouses, and since they're the same number of points as a 2 bedroom, I hope that MS gets it right for everyone's reservation. Maybe though, when they begin booking treehouses, maybe then, SSR will get some booking preference categories.

Bobbi:goodvibes

PS. I've had road views at BCV, yes I thought it noisy on the balcony...in fact, I think the dedicated 2 bedroom that we had in November would be one of those. It was too cold to use the balcony, probably the first time ever that I only went out on it once. I don't think it would be desirable to segment BCV categories.

PPS. I think VWL check in people think we like the far end rooms because that's what we often get....referred to as dumpster view, but more significant in my mind as the far end of the hallway. Just for the record, I'm OK with leaving the point structure alone for that one too. I look in the trees, not down...I've seen lots of birds. Yes, there's also delivery people...I don't know, I can see people's point, but it's such a small resort, I would hate to have to change rooms during a vacation just for the view.

I thought I remembered SSR owners getting to request DTD views when they make their reservations and that non-SSR owners didn't stand a chance of getting that view like at BWV boardwalk view? Am I dreaming?

[bobbiwoz]

I thought I remembered SSR owners getting to request DTD views when they make their reservations and that non-SSR owners didn't stand a chance of getting that view like at BWV boardwalk view? Am I dreaming?

If they have, I missed it. There's a thread that calls for people to write to MS, but as far as I know, a DTD view is only a request, and anyone can ask for it.

Bobbi:goodvibes

[DJmommy]

How bad are some of the VWL views. We stayed only once last August and had a lovely corner room view overlooking the pool and the lake through the trees.

Is this considered the best view that VWL has to offer?

What about further down that hall facing the lake? Is it mostly trees?

What is the view like on the other side?

[CheapMom]

Originally Posted by Muushka
I thought I remembered SSR owners getting to request DTD views when they make their reservations and that non-SSR owners didn't stand a chance of getting that view like at BWV boardwalk view? Am I dreaming?
Many of us SSR owners having been BEGGING for this- but no, we don't have ANY booking priority over anyone else, including point renters and cash guests- even if I book at exactly 11 months and request Congress Park- a cash guest can book a month out- and get the room location I requested while I am given a less desirable location. it burns my biscuits. IMO if DVC would just put some sincere effort into fulfilling requests on 1come/1served basis there wouldn't be a need to chop up into categories.

[DebbieB]

Don't hold back your feelings Carol! Just let us know how you really feel!:lmao:

Little categories, 2. Total. Plus, 2 resorts (OKW and SSR if I remember correctly) have given preferred locations for owners. What is wrong with that?

OKW (near HH) and BWV (standard, preferred boardwalk) were added after the fact. AKV and BLT have it from the start.

[mickeymorse]

I was wondering if the new on-line reservation system is going to show each rooms availability and allow us to book a particular unit or is this just a dream:confused:

[DebbieB]

I was wondering if the new on-line reservation system is going to show each rooms availability and allow us to book a particular unit or is this just a dream:confused:

I doubt DVC would ever go to a system where you could book a particular unit. A hotel is not like a cruise ship where everyone comes and goes on the same day. You might book the room from the 1st to the 5th and someone else comes along and books the 8th to 12th. Then someone has to fit into the 6th and 7th or the room goes empty.

[tjkraz]

I doubt DVC would ever go to a system where you could book a particular unit. A hotel is not like a cruise ship where everyone comes and goes on the same day. You might book the room from the 1st to the 5th and someone else comes along and books the 8th to 12th. Then someone has to fit into the 6th and 7th or the room goes empty.

Yeah, that's not a "dream"...it's a nightmare!

Imagine finding out that there is availability for your 7 day trip, but only if you're willing to spend 2 days in one room, 3 days in another, 1 one day in a third room and the final day in a fourth room.

Right now all it takes is SOME availability on consecutive nights to guarantee a reservation. The hotels make all of the pieces fit together when assigning guests to rooms. If guests were allowed to pick-and-choose, there would orphaned nights all over the calendar that nobody would be willing to take.

It would also feed the secondary market for those who are professional renters. Certain prime units (extra large rooms, great locations, larger balconies, picture-perfect views) would quickly be identified and those units would be instant targets for renters. A renter could double his revenue by booking the right units 11 months out at 12:00:01am.

[RLRDA]

Once they become available to reserve, the only category you'll be able to guarantee at SSR is a THV - everything else is just a request. As an owner at SSR, I wish that would change but that's a whole other thread already!

OP - I know what you are saying. We stayed at BCV and had a view of the front, circular driveway. Not the most relaxing view from the balcony. BUT...I wouldn't mind having that room again because it was steps away from the Marketplace & main building. What we lacked in view we made up for in convenience.

[jade1]

How bad are some of the VWL views. We stayed only once last August and had a lovely corner room view overlooking the pool and the lake through the trees.

Is this considered the best view that VWL has to offer?

What about further down that hall facing the lake? Is it mostly trees?

What is the view like on the other side?

You had by the best view at VWL IMO-depending on the floor-higher the better. Still not enough to be a "category" IMO.The rest are all fine-just simply woods view-some on that side can kind of see the lake through the trees, the other side kind of sees the bus stop through the trees. Far enough down on the bus stop side, will also see the dumpster area below as well.

[UConnJack]

I think we should create a DVC Room Assessment Task Force who will inspect and evaluate the view, location, and noise level of every room in every DVC resort. Each room will be scored on benchmarks such as floor, distance from elevators, distance from amenities, object of the view, angle of the view, noise level, noise type, etc.

For example, the upper floors are more desirable with better views than lower floors, with the ground floor being terrible (who wants someone being able to walk up to their patio?) Of course, OKW scoring for floors will be reversed due to a lack of elevators. At BWV, we should have at least 3 different BW view categories according to the angle at which the BW can be viewed (although bonus point can be awarded to rooms that can also view the fireworks). And the dumpster view rooms at VWL should vary in points depending on the days of the week that the dumpster emits the worst odors and the days in which the dumpster is noisily emptied.

I'll bet if we tried, we can parse the resorts in such a way that every room has its own individual point cost and guaranteed booking category!

[mickeymorse]

I doubt DVC would ever go to a system where you could book a particular unit. A hotel is not like a cruise ship where everyone comes and goes on the same day. You might book the room from the 1st to the 5th and someone else comes along and books the 8th to 12th. Then someone has to fit into the 6th and 7th or the room goes empty.
Yeah, that's not a "dream"...it's a nightmare!

Imagine finding out that there is availability for your 7 day trip, but only if you're willing to spend 2 days in one room, 3 days in another, 1 one day in a third room and the final day in a fourth room.

Right now all it takes is SOME availability on consecutive nights to guarantee a reservation. The hotels make all of the pieces fit together when assigning guests to rooms. If guests were allowed to pick-and-choose, there would orphaned nights all over the calendar that nobody would be willing to take.

It would also feed the secondary market for those who are professional renters. Certain prime units (extra large rooms, great locations, larger balconies, picture-perfect views) would quickly be identified and those units would be instant targets for renters. A renter could double his revenue by booking the right units 11 months out at 12:00:01am.

Points well taken. Didn't see the mess that would create.

[crisi]

OKW (near HH) and BWV (standard, preferred boardwalk) were added after the fact. AKV and BLT have it from the start.

Standard views at BWV have been there since before the resort opened - they didn't have to reallocate points. The Boardwalk view was put in when they got rid of room assigners who would assign BWV on a first request basis. My guess is that SOMEWHERE in the BWV sales literature a statement of the nature that "BW owners will get the first opportunity to book this coveted view" or some such nonsense was made - necessitating the booking category when rooms were no longer assigned in the order the booking was made.

[Deb & Bill]

I think we should create a DVC Room Assessment Task Force who will inspect and evaluate the view, location, and noise level of every room in every DVC resort. Each room will be scored on benchmarks such as floor, distance from elevators, distance from amenities, object of the view, angle of the view, noise level, noise type, etc.

For example, the upper floors are more desirable with better views than lower floors, with the ground floor being terrible (who wants someone being able to walk up to their patio?) Of course, OKW scoring for floors will be reversed due to a lack of elevators. At BWV, we should have at least 3 different BW view categories according to the angle at which the BW can be viewed (although bonus point can be awarded to rooms that can also view the fireworks). And the dumpster view rooms at VWL should vary in points depending on the days of the week that the dumpster emits the worst odors and the days in which the dumpster is noisily emptied.

I'll bet if we tried, we can parse the resorts in such a way that every room has its own individual point cost and guaranteed booking category!

Yup, a nightmare.

[yandbfan]

This is the second time I've stayed at BCV and been assigned a room with a view of a busy road and again I wonder why this room view doesn't qualify for a reduced point stay. I find the view and the noise level far less desirable than the standard view rooms at Boardwalk Villa..... I propose the road view at BCV be a reduced point view. Oh yes I do.

Agreed. We had the same view at BCV last year and did not like it. We thought there had to be some views of the lagoon looking across to Boardwalk or the lighthouse that would would be better. We are going back to BCV this year and we making a request not have the road view. Who knows maybe we will get lucky.:goodvibes

[DebbieB]

Standard views at BWV have been there since before the resort opened - they didn't have to reallocate points. The Boardwalk view was put in when they got rid of room assigners who would assign BWV on a first request basis. My guess is that SOMEWHERE in the BWV sales literature a statement of the nature that "BW owners will get the first opportunity to book this coveted view" or some such nonsense was made - necessitating the booking category when rooms were no longer assigned in the order the booking was made.

I wasn't a member then but when it first opened I understand that it was only one view, just like OKW. Then people started complaining about the standard view area, so they added it to the chart at reduced points. Since they had just started selling, they adjusted the number of points available for sale to make up for it.

I was told by my guide when I bought in 1999 that rooms were assigned based on date of reservation, so I would have an excellent chance at a boardwalk view. First reservation - quiet pool view. Very disappointing. So after that I booked standard view to save points rather than gamble. When "room ready" was announced in 2003, I contacted member satisfaction and asked how this would be handled. First person to the front desk in the morning gets boardwalk view? I'm sure others also questioned it. Shortly after, the guaranteed boardwalk view was announced.

[Muushka]

Many of us SSR owners having been BEGGING for this- but no, we don't have ANY booking priority over anyone else, including point renters and cash guests- even if I book at exactly 11 months and request Congress Park- a cash guest can book a month out- and get the room location I requested while I am given a less desirable location. it burns my biscuits. IMO if DVC would just put some sincere effort into fulfilling requests on 1come/1served basis there wouldn't be a need to chop up into categories.

Oh, I see. Sorry, I just assumed that they were honoring the DTD requests at 11 months, but I should have known better (given their track record!) :thumbsup2

I wasn't a member then but when it first opened I understand that it was only one view, just like OKW. Then people started complaining about the standard view area, so they added it to the chart at reduced points. Since they had just started selling, they adjusted the number of points available for sale to make up for it.

I was told by my guide when I bought in 1999 that rooms were assigned based on date of reservation, so I would have an excellent chance at a boardwalk view. First reservation - quiet pool view. Very disappointing. So after that I booked standard view to save points rather than gamble. When "room ready" was announced in 2003, I contacted member satisfaction and asked how this would be handled. First person to the front desk in the morning gets boardwalk view? I'm sure others also questioned it. Shortly after, the guaranteed boardwalk view was announced.

That is the way I remember it also.

[Granny]

Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying this spirited and generally amiable discussion! :thumbsup2

[Dean]

Standard views at BWV have been there since before the resort opened - they didn't have to reallocate points. The Boardwalk view was put in when they got rid of room assigners who would assign BWV on a first request basis. My guess is that SOMEWHERE in the BWV sales literature a statement of the nature that "BW owners will get the first opportunity to book this coveted view" or some such nonsense was made - necessitating the booking category when rooms were no longer assigned in the order the booking was made.Actually I believe the change was made after the resort opened but very early in the process and was made based on member complaints about view. They were early enough in the sales process to make the change without any impact but to their wallet.

What was the quote from early on for BCV, Aah "Most all views at BCV are standard views"

[dcfromva]

When "room ready" was announced in 2003, I contacted member satisfaction and asked how this would be handled. First person to the front desk in the morning gets boardwalk view? I'm sure others also questioned it. Shortly after, the guaranteed boardwalk view was announced.

I believe the BW view was a guaranteed booking category by the time I bought points, so it was never an issue for me. But, I remember reading about folks camping out in the BWV lobby for hours in an attempt to get the coveted BW view prior to it being guaranteed. :confused3 That must have been something.

[dcfromva]

As for the BCV, I wouldn't like to see any changes to the points. I don't think there is one view that is spectacularly different from the others to justify a point differential.

Personally, I don't ever request a view when making a reservation at BCV. We just take whatever has been assigned to us. Part of the fun for me is to discover new things about the resort.

Funny thing is I am less keen on a pool view, but on our last visit over NYE, we were assigned a pool view and we did enjoy it. I like the woodland view best because it is nice and quiet and sometimes it is a surprise that you can see some of the higher fireworks from illuminations from the balcony.

[DanenRox]

I believe the BW view was a guaranteed booking category by the time I bought points, so it was never an issue for me. But, I remember reading about folks camping out in the BWV lobby for hours in an attempt to get the coveted BW view prior to that. :confused3 That must have been something.

Wow! I can imagine...I shudder to think I may have gotten roped into that too! Uggh!
So I understand the argument of how difficult the reservation process would become if BCV included "standard" views. I understand that there was only one category of views when I bought it so I shouldn't expect change. I understand that a view of the roadway is better than a view of my landfill. However, I still don't agree. DVC seems very able to provide reservations to other propertyies that have different point assignments without the entire system collapsing. Every property sold since we've bought at BCV has differentiated room grades by the view they offer. Clearly, Disney recognizes the "point power" of a view! DVC has changed since we've bought, i.e. free internet, so they idea of change within DVC, on any level, shouldn't be frightening or so quickly disregarded. Lastly, no one can convince me the view of a noisy roadway is equal to a view of a quiet landscaped area...c'mon...obsuring unsightly views is a Disney specialty.
Anyway, I'm glad for all of the feedback and I truly respect everyone's opinion. Disney topics get very personal for people, I know that. We defend what we love....

[tjkraz]

The biggest opposition something like this would face would be from current owners who bought into one system and would then be asked to accept another.

Right now it's 30 points per night for a Two Bedroom in Adventure season. If you create a "Standard View" for 27 points per night, you need to move an identical number of rooms into a "Preferred View" for 33 PPN. Any members who are used to booking the pool view or any other units in that Preferred category will not be happy to find that their trips suddenly cost more points. Change isn't always well-received.

Members who buy into BLT or AKV now are aware right from the start that there are different views and different categories.

[jarestel]

There's no rule that says different booking categories, ie views, would need point differentials. The points could remain the same, simply break up the resort into categories.

Having said that, I would think that BCV & VWL would not be good candidates for the extra trouble simply because they are both rather generic when it comes to views.

But I agree with the OP in the respect that the "road view" at BCV is pretty noisy.

[tjkraz]

There's no rule that says different booking categories, ie views, would need point differentials.

Lower points for the road view was basically what OP requested:

This is the second time I've stayed at BCV and been assigned a room with a view of a busy road and again I wonder why this room view doesn't qualify for a reduced point stay.

[jarestel]

Lower points for the road view was basically what OP requested:

But realistically that's not gonna happen!
Once the reservations software is adapted to easily handle booking categories in the other resorts, it's a slight possibility that it could be extended to all. But mucking with points differentials is pretty much a no-go.

[drusba]

Booking categories based on different number of points for a room is something that must be built into a resort before applicable units are sold. Disney has become more enamored with doing that with the new resorts--AKV and BLT, for which the booking categories were built into the resorts when they first went on sale. Disney cannot make any such change at the other resorts, although it could establish booking categories like it has done for HH at OKW and boardwalk view at boardwalk, but in doing so it cannot raise the points for those particular units and lower them for others.

BWV was a special case. Originally every room was assigned the points that are now the "preferred" view points. Very early in the sale process, and after complaints about view, it changed to make certain rooms standard view with lower points. Disney was able to do that because little had been sold and it simply redid all its official documents and lowered the total number of points for the resort by lowering the number of points applicable to units which had not yet been designated for sale.

Disney retains the right to adjust points, such as raise them during one season and lowering in others, as long as total points for any particular "unit" stay the same. A unit is usually a designated small group of rooms. That does not allow it to lower points for certain units while raising them for others. The reason: if it tried to do that it would be raising or lowering the total points for any given "unit" which it is prohibited from doing. As a result, you will never see booking categories at BCV, VWL, SSR, or OKW which are based on lowering the points for some units while rasing them for others.

[spiceycat]

sorry everyone I happen to like that view.

you are very lucky BCV even exist. before it was open could not believe that Disney was letting DVC have prime property.

it does not have the great views that BW does true. but it has more views of the fireworks than BW does.

I can liked looking at the back of Epcot and trying to figure out what those people were doing....:rotfl:

BCV is an after though - so for that matter is VWL.

VWL is a stone throw from a swamp.... don't know what disney does to stop the insects but so far it is working.

both have not so great views.

that say like to see the back side of Epcot - not many people get to see it.

VWL will take any views expect the service building. I though DVC had told the front desk to quit making members stay in those villas. On the basis that members did own the building - not WL. Have you complainted to DVC about being given that view? when I did the survey after my stay - definitely made DVC and WL aware that this is a problem. You need to say something before you arrive - to DVC.

because my last couple of stays were not in those studios.

would recommend that BCV members do too. If you know you will not like a villa - definitely put that on your reservations. Make sure that NOT or NO is captialized. the fd has a tendency to see what they want to see - not what is actually there.

[LIFERBABE]

Booking categories based on different number of points for a room is something that must be built into a resort before applicable units are sold. Disney has become more enamored with doing that with the new resorts--AKV and BLT, for which the booking categories were built into the resorts when they first went on sale. Disney cannot make any such change at the other resorts, although it could establish booking categories like it has done for HH at OKW and boardwalk view at boardwalk, but in doing so it cannot raise the points for those particular units and lower them for others.

BWV was a special case. Originally every room was assigned the points that are now the "preferred" view points. Very early in the sale process, and after complaints about view, it changed to make certain rooms standard view with lower points. Disney was able to do that because little had been sold and it simply redid all its official documents and lowered the total number of points for the resort by lowering the number of points applicable to units which had not yet been designated for sale.

Disney retains the right to adjust points, such as raise them during one season and lowering in others, as long as total points for any particular "unit" stay the same. A unit is usually a designated small group of rooms. That does not allow it to lower points for certain units while raising them for others. The reason: if it tried to do that it would be raising or lowering the total points for any given "unit" which it is prohibited from doing. As a result, you will never see booking categories at BCV, VWL, SSR, or OKW which are based on lowering the points for some units while rasing them for others.

Im sorry, but that is not correct. They can do it. Whether or not they will is a different story.
They made every owner of OKW accept or decline the extension by signing legal paper work and threatened an assessment for those that did nothing. DVC can do anything they want.

[spiceycat]

Im sorry, but that is not correct. They can do it. Whether or not they will is a different story.
They made every owner of OKW accept or decline the extension by signing legal paper work and threatened an assessment for those that did nothing. DVC can do anything they want.

they sold that many points - the only way they can change the amount of points is to buy back enough of the points. which would hurt their bottom line.

dvc sells points - not weeks.

so changing points cost after the resort is sold out is not possible.

now changing the view (not the points) based on what members request is different and DVC can definitely do it.

[tjkraz]

Im sorry, but that is not correct. They can do it. Whether or not they will is a different story.
They made every owner of OKW accept or decline the extension by signing legal paper work and threatened an assessment for those that did nothing. DVC can do anything they want.

I'm not so sure. I see exactly where drusba is coming from, and I think I've used this argument before myself.

I own 150 points at SSR. My Purchase Agreement specifically states that I own "an undivided .3284% interest in Unit 1B of Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort..." So Unit 1B of SSR was declared into the Condo Association such that 150 points represents .3284% ownership.

If the points were to change for that unit, I would no longer own .3284%. So I'm not sure DVC could legally make that change.

The OKW extension was a completely different situation. All they had to do was amend the POS to extend the ground lease another 15 years. In this case you're talking about making changes which impact the deeded ownership of thousands of individual resort owners.

I don't know whether or not it would be legal, but they would at least need to adjust/amend the deeds of every impacted owner. And that may not even be possible without agreement from the owner.

[CarolA]

Don't hold back your feelings Carol! Just let us know how you really feel!:lmao:

Little categories, 2. Total. Plus, 2 resorts (OKW and SSR if I remember correctly) have given preferred locations for owners. What is wrong with that?

I wrote a formal letter of complaint asking for compensation for the change in my membership AFTER they did the OKW change. (Didn't get anything but wanted them to think that they may be opening up a can of worms with these changes)

I have written DVC and explained that changing SSR will result in an unhappy member who will be sure to tell folks who ask about buying DVC that "what you buy may not be what you get because they keep changing the conditions"


IMHO it's WRONG to add booking categories AFTER the sale and changes the product I bought. (Wonder if I have a legal case?);)

[Sabor]

they sold that many points - the only way they can change the amount of points is to buy back enough of the points. which would hurt their bottom line.

dvc sells points - not weeks.

so changing points cost after the resort is sold out is not possible.

now changing the view (not the points) based on what members request is different and DVC can definitely do it.

DVC can change point costs! -- The total amount of points to rent out all accomodations over the entire year must remain constant. They could lower adventure season and raise another, manipulate the seasons differnetly, reallocate the weekend to weekday point structure, and they could create a category that costs more points and offset it by lowering elsewhere.

Just to be clear -- the only thing that has to be constant is the total # of points required to rent out all accomodations for the entire year.

The logistics of making changes make it difficult and unlikely, there would have to be something dramatic in vaction habits for them to do so.

[tjkraz]

DVC can change point costs! -- The total amount of points to rent out all accomodations over the entire year must remain constant. They could lower adventure season and raise another, manipulate the seasons differnetly, reallocate the weekend to weekday point structure, and they could create a category that costs more points and offset it by lowering elsewhere.

Just to be clear -- the only thing that has to be constant is the total # of points required to rent out all accomodations for the entire year.

The logistics of making changes make it difficult and unlikely, there would have to be something dramatic in vaction habits for them to do so.

If you look at my post above, I do not believe they can legally reclassify rooms (units) that have already been declared into inventory.

My SSR deed does NOT say that I own 150 points--it says that I own a .3284% interest in a specific Unit. If DVC were to raise or lower the points associated with my unit, I would no longer own .3284%. That simply cannot be legal.

Yes, they can change the points on the calendar within my unit. If they want to raise September by one point per night and lower April by one point, that's perfectly legal because everything stays in equilibrium. I still own .3284%. But to reclassify the unit itself and raise or lower points for EVERY SINGLE NIGHT (or any number of nights without an offset elsewhere on the calendar) would dilute my deeded ownership.

[drusba]

DVC can change point costs! -- The total amount of points to rent out all accomodations over the entire year must remain constant. They could lower adventure season and raise another, manipulate the seasons differnetly, reallocate the weekend to weekday point structure, and they could create a category that costs more points and offset it by lowering elsewhere.

Just to be clear -- the only thing that has to be constant is the total # of points required to rent out all accomodations for the entire year.

The logistics of making changes make it difficult and unlikely, there would have to be something dramatic in vaction habits for them to do so.

As I tried to explain above, it is the last one you mention, that DVC can, even if not expressly set out in the official documents applicable to a site when it is first sold, "create a category that costs more points and offset it by lowering it elsewhere," that is something Disney actually cannot do. Under the official documents, though Disney can do shifting of points, the total points applicable to each unit (not just the whole resort) cannot change, Rooms with bad views are part of "unit" to which a specified total number of points apply. To declare that such rooms (units) will now always be lower point cost and other units higher would change the total number of points applicable to those units. To make that kind of change, Disney would have to allow members to vote on the change.

[spiceycat]

DVC can change point costs! -- The total amount of points to rent out all accomodations over the entire year must remain constant. They could lower adventure season and raise another, manipulate the seasons differnetly, reallocate the weekend to weekday point structure, and they could create a category that costs more points and offset it by lowering elsewhere.

Just to be clear -- the only thing that has to be constant is the total # of points required to rent out all accomodations for the entire year.

The logistics of making changes make it difficult and unlikely, there would have to be something dramatic in vaction habits for them to do so.

that decision is based on more people traveling at times that Disney did not think they would.

not to satisfy members.

besides would be very, very unhappy if I owned BCV and found the time that I wanted got raised to made a NEW room catalogue.

that is not the same as DVC raising points because member vacation plans did not go along with Disney schedule.

[spiceycat]

that say - so how about saying which rooms have bad views - so others can avoid them.

[DanenRox]

The roadside view to which I'm referring overlooks (and overhears) Epcot Resort Blvd, I believe. The only reason we didn't request a room change for our studio was because we were too busy trying to secure a room change for our family who were in a 2 bedroom near construction. Why they were put in a room near construction/refurb is another post for another day...

[MikeSquared]

This thread is actually making me chuckle :goodvibes
We always requested upper floor Epcot view at BCV, the rooms that the OP is saying they don't want, and we had trouble getting one all the time. That is the reason we sold, we could never get our room requests met, other than non smoking, and always ended up on the wrong side of the building on a lower floor. I'm not an owner right now, but if I were I would rather see requests being honored using the reservation date as a reference instead of the "room ready" policy where people are offered the first room available. I think that is the problem at BCV, they don't even look at requests. When an owner of any DVC makes a reservation at the 11 month point, the requests should be met when available. This should take priority over someone making a reservation a week out then walking in at 7 am and getting the first room available. We love BCV, it's still our favorite DVC but we will not be buying there again. If, well I should say when, we buy back into DVC it will be OKW or one of the new DVC's.

[DWFan4Life]

Agreed. We had the same view at BCV last year and did not like it. We thought there had to be some views of the lagoon looking across to Boardwalk or the lighthouse that would would be better. We are going back to BCV this year and we making a request not have the road view. Who knows maybe we will get lucky.:goodvibes


I hope you'll be lucky.:) You're there to enjoy and relax, not to listen on noisy cars outside and have that road view.

Have a nice trip. :)

[DebbieB]

Agreed. We had the same view at BCV last year and did not like it. We thought there had to be some views of the lagoon looking across to Boardwalk or the lighthouse that would would be better. We are going back to BCV this year and we making a request not have the road view. Who knows maybe we will get lucky.:goodvibes

There are no views of the lagoon or lighthouse from BCV.

[bobbiwoz]

The BC is in front of the BCV, it blocks the view of the BW. There's not a BW view at BCV!

Bobbi:goodvibes

[Dean]

The biggest opposition something like this would face would be from current owners who bought into one system and would then be asked to accept another.

Right now it's 30 points per night for a Two Bedroom in Adventure season. If you create a "Standard View" for 27 points per night, you need to move an identical number of rooms into a "Preferred View" for 33 PPN. Any members who are used to booking the pool view or any other units in that Preferred category will not be happy to find that their trips suddenly cost more points. Change isn't always well-received.

Members who buy into BLT or AKV now are aware right from the start that there are different views and different categories.My understanding is a unit (usually a group of rooms) must remain the same for an entire year. Thus thus they could lower one season by raising another but not lower this unit while increasing another. Without sacrificing points that DVC owned in a given unit, I don't see anyway to change this even with an owners vote. They could certainly make booking categories without changing the points involved.

[DisneyWalker44]

Without sacrificing points that DVC owned in a given unit, I don't see anyway to change this even with an owners vote. After what they did with OKW, I'm not sure there's any limit. They an create a new property that works however they want, vote for a special assessment of $200/point (or $2000 or $20,000) for the new property, then offer to waive the assessment for anyone willing to trade in their old membership. We get letters in the mail saying we either sign an agreement trading our old membership for the new one, or we own the a $zillion dollars to keep both. Obviously the Disney lawyers would polish this up a bit.

[crisi]

OKW is a great example of how they CAN'T do what they want. They didn't want to make an "opt out" extention for OKW - it was a nightmare - probably still is because there are probably people still out there refusing to pay but who haven't yet sent back their notarized paperwork. But they were restricted by the terms of the contract to do it the opt out way.

It would have been much easier for DVC - and much better received - to do an opt in on the extention.

[Dean]

After what they did with OKW, I'm not sure there's any limit. They an create a new property that works however they want, vote for a special assessment of $200/point (or $2000 or $20,000) for the new property, then offer to waive the assessment for anyone willing to trade in their old membership. We get letters in the mail saying we either sign an agreement trading our old membership for the new one, or we own the a $zillion dollars to keep both. Obviously the Disney lawyers would polish this up a bit.While I don't think the OKW extension SA would hold up in a court challenge (and I've said so), I see this as cut and dried. The definition of a unit is very standard, either a room or group of rooms and usually a group of rooms unless it's a 3 BR which is sometimes declared as a single unit. The rules specifically state that the unit must remain the same number of points for a year. The rules further state that changes that affect the membership as a whole in a negative way must be voted on by the members. Are there ways to do it, sure. They could move away from the deeded approach as most RTU timeshares would have done to start with. They could ask the members to vote on a waiver for this purpose. But I am confident in saying they couldn't do this on their own unless they took individual "units" and adjusted them so that one room went up while another in the same unit went down a compensatory amount. The chances of the units matching up to make this workable are very unlikely.

[DisneyWalker44]

Are there ways to do it, sure. That's all I'm saying.

[LIFERBABE]

That's all I'm saying.

Ditto, That's all Im saying too. Not saying it would be easy, smart, wise, etc. just that it is possible and precedence has been set to change without membership vote.

[Dean]

That's all I'm saying.But there are not ways to force it on the membership with a change in points without a vote of the actual members unless they give up points and thus reduce the number of points required to stay at BCV for the entire year or unless they go into each "unit" and adjust one room while raising another within each and every declared unit that is affected. They could also get each affected owner to change their deed. None of these are real risks IMO. The only likelihood IF there is a change would be booking categories without points changes like at OKW.

[rwcmath]

But there are not ways to force it on the membership with a change in points without a vote of the actual members unless they give up points and thus reduce the number of points required to stay at BCV for the entire year or unless they go into each "unit" and adjust one room while raising another within each and every declared unit that is affected. They could also get each affected owner to change their deed. None of these are real risks IMO. The only likelihood IF there is a change would be booking categories without points changes like at OKW.

I don't see the point of changing booking categories at BCV.

[Dean]

I don't see the point of changing booking categories at BCV.IMO there is not enough variation to make booking categories reasonable at BCV, however, that was the point of the OP. We are simply discussing at this point whether it could happen technically and under what circumstances. IMO it would be possible to do booking categories and possible but unlikely to do them for different points but only under limited specific ways without the vote of the members there.

[Brenle]

:mic: Love the debate. Very informative. :)

[spiceycat]

This thread is actually making me chuckle :goodvibes
We always requested upper floor Epcot view at BCV, the rooms that the OP is saying they don't want, and we had trouble getting one all the time. That is the reason we sold, we could never get our room requests met, other than non smoking, and always ended up on the wrong side of the building on a lower floor. I'm not an owner right now, but if I were I would rather see requests being honored using the reservation date as a reference instead of the "room ready" policy where people are offered the first room available. I think that is the problem at BCV, they don't even look at requests. When an owner of any DVC makes a reservation at the 11 month point, the requests should be met when available. This should take priority over someone making a reservation a week out then walking in at 7 am and getting the first room available. We love BCV, it's still our favorite DVC but we will not be buying there again. If, well I should say when, we buy back into DVC it will be OKW or one of the new DVC's.

mike I like it too.

the road can be ignored for me anyway - just being able to see the back parts of Epcot is worth the noise.

don't count on OKW to honor your request - they didn't mind for the last 7 years at least. Which is another reason I sold it.

whenever asked for a certain building and I got there at 7 am - was told it was blocked - according to the front desk - over half the resort was blocked.

this was early 7 am or earlier on Sunday morning. the only time got what wanted was when mother was still able to travel with me - got it then because of her health - so medical reasons.

don't count on OKW to honor your requests at all.

now SSR, AKV, even lately BWV - have been WONDERFUL. so hoping BLT will be too.

[Deb & Bill]

...don't count on OKW to honor your request - they didn't mind for the last 7 years at least. Which is another reason I sold it.

whenever asked for a certain building and I got there at 7 am - was told it was blocked - according to the front desk - over half the resort was blocked.

this was early 7 am or earlier on Sunday morning. the only time got what wanted was when mother was still able to travel with me - got it then because of her health - so medical reasons.

don't count on OKW to honor your requests at all.....

Pat, we've always gotten our request at OKW. But they were pretty generic. Water view, higher floor. Last time we asked for canal view and we got Bldg 46 with a great view of Trumbo Canal.

[bobbiwoz]

We've only had 2 OKW stays, a studio and a 1 bedroom. In both cases I asked for 1st floor or an elevator building and each time I got a wonderful villa, and both times at 10AM! My problem with OKW is that I don't like the location. I think it's a pretty resort, but we won't book many stays there.

Bobbi:goodvibes