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View Full Version : Refresh me on why trading is not a good deal


rutgers1
01-11-2009, 05:47 PM
I was just flipping through the blue book with my wife and it seemed like the point total - if I looked at it properly - for trading with Interval International was very similar to that of a Disney resort. So, with that said, where does trading become a bad deal? I figure there are other strings attached since many people here have said that it isn't a good trade.

WebmasterDoc
01-11-2009, 06:17 PM
If you are wanting to trade because you have some extra points this year, using the World Passport Collection can be a reasonable deal. In most cases, you will get a better "value" by using your DVC points at DVC resorts, but the non-DVC options can be a good deal with extra points.

If you are mainly planning to use non-DVC options, there are less costly ways to do that - thus the reason for the generally negative commenst about "value".

IMO, many of the available exchanges can be a very good "value" is used on occasion - but again, there are other less costly timeshares with lower annual fees able to reserve the same options - thus the "value" comments.

rutgers1
01-11-2009, 08:09 PM
Are there costs involved?

I was just looking in the book, and it lists trips with Interval as being, for example, 144 points for a one-bedroom for a week during "mid-season." Staying in a 1 BR in "dream" season would be 225 points for the week. So, isn't that a better deal? If I am reading that correctly, it seems like trading into Interval was a very good deal. What am I missing?

Where it seemed horrible was either staying at another Disney hotel or taking the cruise.

chalee94
01-12-2009, 08:28 AM
Are there costs involved?

i think there's a $95 fee for trading out, but that's not the big issue.

I was just looking in the book, and it lists trips with Interval as being, for example, 144 points for a one-bedroom for a week during "mid-season." Staying in a 1 BR in "dream" season would be 225 points for the week. So, isn't that a better deal? If I am reading that correctly, it seems like trading into Interval was a very good deal. What am I missing?

as doc said, if you want to trade out on a regular basis and stay in that 1BR in mid-season, you could probably accomplish the same thing with a timeshare that costs $1 on ebay with annual maintenance fees under $500. why spend over $10,000 and over $700 in annual dues to trade for the same room?

rutgers1
01-12-2009, 04:07 PM
On some level, I see what you are saying, but in a scenario where the family has gone to Disney one or twice every year for years on end, I would think that many - if not most - wouldn't mind going somewhere else every so often. So, with that said, I always read posts here stating that trading out is a bad deal, as though you either can't get anyplace to take you, or you have to pay way more points to get the same type accommodation that you would at Rutgers. I assumed it to be both, actually. However, if the points are about the same for a 1BR at Disney and a 1BR somewhere else, that is great news to me. I wouldn't want to trade out all the time, but I know at some point my family will want to switch things up.

Any other downsides besides the $95 fee?

Can you really buy timeshares ridiculously cheap on ebay? I assume they are at less desirable resorts, but I would consider it if there was a beach resort somewhere. At a beach resort, we just want a place to call home and go to sleep at night. For $500 in maintenance fees, that would be a good deal in most places.

WebmasterDoc
01-12-2009, 05:54 PM
Yes, there are lots of really inexpensive timeshares available on eBay. Just do your research to see what you are buying first. We own several that we use for trading and have paid as little as $500 to own one on the DVC trade list (for both II and RCI) - but there are better bargains available on eBay. We purchased directly thru the Owners Association at the resort - which is also a good resource.

Timeshare Users Group (www.tug2.net) is a great resource for researching timeshares.

chalee94
01-12-2009, 06:00 PM
On some level, I see what you are saying, but in a scenario where the family has gone to Disney one or twice every year for years on end, I would think that many - if not most - wouldn't mind going somewhere else every so often. So, with that said, I always read posts here stating that trading out is a bad deal, as though you either can't get anyplace to take you, or you have to pay way more points to get the same type accommodation that you would at Rutgers.

nah - from what i hear, if you plan ahead, trading is doable and nice to have as an option for a change of pace. there is a value to flexibility. but in purely financial terms, you are paying a premium for a timeshare+dues with DVC and using it to trade for options that can be obtained more cheaply.

historically, you'd also come out ahead (in financial terms) if you rented your pts and paid cash to stay elsewhere (or cruise) instead of trading.

it's nice to have the option of letting DVC handle the footwork, but the numbers would tend to be against you. that's what makes it a "bad deal."

Can you really buy timeshares ridiculously cheap on ebay? I assume they are at less desirable resorts, but I would consider it if there was a beach resort somewhere. At a beach resort, we just want a place to call home and go to sleep at night. For $500 in maintenance fees, that would be a good deal in most places.

depends on what you mean by "less desirable." you can get marriott 2BRs in good demand weeks for less than half the upfront price of DVC with comparable or slightly lower dues. the dollar+closing costs resorts require a lot more digging to get a good quality (if not a name brand) resort for a good week that can trade into comparable places as what DVC can get...but from what i've been told, it can be done.

OTOH, i'm not an expert at this trading thing but i'm trying to learn what i can over at TUG. dean or another timeshare guru would be a better resource.

Dean
01-13-2009, 08:14 AM
I was just flipping through the blue book with my wife and it seemed like the point total - if I looked at it properly - for trading with Interval International was very similar to that of a Disney resort. So, with that said, where does trading become a bad deal? I figure there are other strings attached since many people here have said that it isn't a good trade.Trading with RCI (II before they changed over) could be a good deal for top resorts in prime time. The problem is those options are not usually going to be available to you esp since DVC has only good (but not great) trade power and most units that do come on board will go to other people. That may be a little different with RCI but the principles will be similar. There are other risks though. Most resorts will be a downtrade, unit assignments for non members usually aren't as good, if you have to cancel or change, you may lose your week totally. The RCI points options may be a little better if there is availability, we shall see.

littlestar
01-13-2009, 08:53 AM
There are definitely bargains on E-bay. Check out this EOY (every other year) one for a Sheraton in Myrtle Beach, which is dual affiliated with RCI and II:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-BR-SHERATON-Gold-Crown-MYRTLE-BEACH-Timeshare-Deed_W0QQitemZ250353399746QQihZ015QQcategoryZ15897 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Besides our DVC points, we also own a Marriott bought resale and a dual affiliated resort in the North Carolina Mountains. Since we were able to join both II and RCI, we are able to take advantage of the great cash deals with both exchange companies. We sometimes only pay $219 a week in a one bedroom on an RCI "Last Call." And these are Gold Crown resorts.

I definitely wouldn't buy DVC with the plan to exchange on a regular basis. The dues and buy-in costs are too high to use it for that purpose.

Brian Noble
01-13-2009, 10:13 AM
esp since DVC has only good (but not great) trade power and most units that do come on board will go to other people.
Based on what we've seen it takes to pull DVC in Weeks, and the Point values in Points, trade power may well be good in RCI, at least for now. RCI still has a few systems with internal preference periods, but not as bad as II.

tubtruck
01-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Trading out from DVC to some of the RCI resorts available is tantamount to charity, you would have to be out of your mind!!!.

Some of the places on rental boards rent for a fraction of what you can get for a dvc rental. Folks who manage to swap some of these for weeks at Disney must feel like they have hit the jackpot. I would sooner rent my points out at $4.50 a point, in other words lose my years entitlement and only cover the dues than trade into a great number of them.

Dean
01-13-2009, 04:42 PM
Trading out from DVC to some of the RCI resorts available is tantamount to charity, you would have to be out of your mind!!!.

Some of the places on rental boards rent for a fraction of what you can get for a dvc rental. Folks who manage to swap some of these for weeks at Disney must feel like they have hit the jackpot. I would sooner rent my points out at $4.50 a point, in other words lose my years entitlement and only cover the dues than trade into a great number of them.That's certainly true for 95% of the weeks and resorts but not for everything. That's the reason I've encouraged members of this board to be very selective and only exchange to the top options. Unfortunately most of those were Marriott and Westin in the past which are now gone. I also think a lot more than have, should consider buying a trading week.

tubtruck
01-13-2009, 06:06 PM
That's certainly true for 95% of the weeks and resorts but not for everything. That's the reason I've encouraged members of this board to be very selective and only exchange to the top options. Unfortunately most of those were Marriott and Westin in the past which are now gone. I also think a lot more than have, should consider buying a trading week.

Yes quite agree, I am thinking about one myself now I have fully paid for DVC would be happy to get any advice on what and where to buy for this purpose myself.

Dean
01-13-2009, 06:24 PM
Yes quite agree, I am thinking about one myself now I have fully paid for DVC would be happy to get any advice on what and where to buy for this purpose myself.There is no one answer. It really depends on your goals, location, tastes, standards, flexibility, length of intended usage and personal tastes. Given your location, Diamond might be a consideration as it has a lot of European options. RCI points might also be another great choice. I'd suggest you spend a few months investigating, esp on TUG (Timeshare Users Group) and see what fits your style and wallet. You might also consider a Marriott in France or Spain.

tubtruck
01-13-2009, 06:40 PM
I realise the Marriots are very good, and also expensive, is there anything worth buying to trade into these that is cheaper or is it better just to stump up the cash.

rutgers1
01-13-2009, 08:26 PM
As far as trading is concerned, what is the ideal (yet reasonable, not pie in the sky) scenario for someone who mainly just wants to see the US? In other words, what would someone be looking to pay? how much in monthly fees? and what would he/she get for that in terms of trading ability?

Dean
01-13-2009, 09:20 PM
I realise the Marriots are very good, and also expensive, is there anything worth buying to trade into these that is cheaper or is it better just to stump up the cash.One can buy a good trading Marriott for around $5K with yearly fees $700-800 a year. Add about $100 a year for II and a lockoff fee of about $100 if applicable and you can get 2-3 trades per year, 3 if you qualify for a bonus week. If you're interested in Marriott's, one should buy unless you're going truly off season.

As far as trading is concerned, what is the ideal (yet reasonable, not pie in the sky) scenario for someone who mainly just wants to see the US? In other words, what would someone be looking to pay? how much in monthly fees? and what would he/she get for that in terms of trading ability?As I noted, there is no one answer. It's my personal opinion that the mini points systems represent the best value. One can buy BG points for as little as $2000 for 10K points with yearly fees of around $600-700 a year. That includes RCI membership and you can trade 1 to 3 weeks a year easy. One can also join II at your own expense in many cases but your home resort apparently has to be an II member to do so. RCI points are also not a bad option, costs vary a lot more. There are many options. Please don't take a rec based on my bias and limited info as the ONLY way to proceed or even the best way for you, it may not be. Or you could buy something inherently cheap off ebay, just make sure you know for certain what you're getting. I feel ebay is a great option but the risks are too high for newbies.

Brian Noble
01-13-2009, 09:52 PM
I think buying exclusively to trade is unwise---the rules of the exchange game are constantly changing, and what used to work last year may not work next year in obtaining the weeks you want. Even in the several years I've been in timeshare, I've seen several fairly significant changes that made tried-and-true methods for obtaining favorable exchanges completely obsolete, nearly overnight.

If you need an example, ask all those folks who bought II weeks with the expectation of trading into DVC, but there are many others. As another: when Wyndham removed the ability to reserve a specific week for deposit, it instantly neutered Wyndham's pionts product as a high-quality RCI exchanger.

If you really want to stay at a particular resort semi-frequently, you probably should consider owning there.

If you want to extend your timeshare portfolio, I think it is most prudent to buy into a good (but not necessarily name-brand) resort or mini-system that you personally would want to visit, at a time of year that is attractive to both you and others, and at a price that makes sense when compared to the available rental market. If you do that, chances are good that you will be able to extract value either through exchange or through rental if, for some reason, you'd prefer not to use it yourself. But, if worse comes to worst, you still have a resort that you can use. That's important.

Most importantly, take your time. It's very easy to buy a timeshare week. It's surprisingly hard to sell one. There's no hurry---join TUG (www.tug2.net) and TS4M (www.timeshareforums.com) and read read read, and then when you think you know enough to buy, read for another few months.

tubtruck
01-14-2009, 07:11 AM
Most importantly, take your time. It's very easy to buy a timeshare week. It's surprisingly hard to sell one. There's no hurry---join TUG (www.tug2.net) and TS4M (www.timeshareforums.com) and read read read, and then when you think you know enough to buy, read for another few months.

I quite agree, and its what I have been doing for quite some time. Gosh is it complicated so many different schemes and prices an absolute minefield.

At the moment some of the rentals at less favourable resorts are so cheap it appears to make buying pointless but as the economies of the world hopefully pick up I imagine this will likely change, am I right on thinking now is likely the time to get in cheap?

Brian Noble
01-14-2009, 08:22 AM
It's always dicey to predict the future of rental rates vs. ownership costs.