Behavior Challenge Thread

[BeckyScott]

So here we are. This thread is for the parents who are dealing with challenging behaviors with their kid. Brainstorm ideas, report progress, complain when it doesn't work... Let's see if we can get our lives a little bit easier.

Last night I was thinking about this while I was watching tv. I decided to try it in two parts, as I have sort of two seperate problems.

The first I'm calling Behavior Plan. This connects behavior to time on the Wii and computer, which is a huge deal for my boys. They'll start out with a certain amount of time per week, and more time can be added or taken away depending on behavior. Of course, I've gone into more detail on my little notes. I think I'm going to try to find tokens to use, I need to buy groceries anyway, but the last time I went looking for poker chips I couldn't find any. In a pinch, I could print up some "money" on the computer. I am trying to figure out if I start taking away time for the first scream, or if I do some sort of warning, suggestions?

The second is the Allowance Plan. They'll start out with $2/week (which is pretty low compared to the "average" allowance for kids their age) and if they want more, they gotta earn it, I made a list of possibilities. Not behavior-related stuff, though, more like general household maintenance stuff. Although I did add in "3 bites of a new food" in there because we do have issue with that. I think the easiest way to handle it is to get a roll of quarters and hand them out on the spot, the kids don't have a good sense of waiting. Even though when they're adults they won't get paid that way, for now I'm thinking it will be more effective. I am also adding in something specific for the boys- having their teacher (or para) sign a note every Friday if they've turned in all their work on time. This is a big problem for us. I figure that's worth an extra buck right there.

The problem I always have is the follow-thru a couple weeks down the road, so I'm hoping that being accountable to others will help me out.

If you hear excessive amounts of groaning and whining in the air this afternoon, it will be coming from my house.

[mechurchlady]

Can we add the children of parents with behavior problems. My mother is undiagnosed for anything mental and trust me that lady has spent most of her time near or in the spectrum. I am an adult with my own behavior problems and am a challenge.

Great Idea for the plans.
As adults bad behavior ends in loss of wages, income, early death, illness, wrecked family and home life, social outcast, and worst the loss of freedom to jail or a mental ward. I like your plan because they are learning that good behavior is rewarded and bad is punished just like when they are adults. I use that with mom like she was really good tonight so she got chocolate cake and a new book. When she is in her snit fits I don't give her the special goodies like cornbread, carrot cake and muffins. She gets the plain meals on bad days and she is sensing that if she annoys me then it is nuked meal day, yuk. She has gotten better because she is finally realizing that hissy fits get her no where fast.

As for the first scream I don't know if that is right. Is it a screaming fit because little brother showed big brother a picture of something that freaks him out or is it a fit over not getting one's way. I am not a mom so my opinion really does not matter but I think in the beginning a couple of warnings then punishment. First know the why behind the problem as kids can be like Tweety Bird in that they are so cute and sweet but inside is a demon bent on driving that poor cat up the walls and get it into trouble.

Big hugs and chocolates and dole whips:cheer2: :laundy: :surfweb: :dance3:
Laurie

[Minnie M6]

Becky,
We implemented a chip system early last year which worked well for a while (unfortunately I am terrible at follow through so even when we find a system that works I tend to start strong and then drop the ball).

We found the poker chips at WalMart back in the board and card game section. Each child had a container for red chips and one for blue chips. They started with a certain number of blue chips each week, and each chip "bought" them 30 minutes of video game or computer time. They could earn extra time on the computer or video games by reading 30 minutes once their chips were gone. It was pretty cool to hear them thinking through whether they wanted to spend a chip now or save it for later. It took all the decisions off of me.

The red chips they earned at the end of each day based on a chart that had daily expectations (I put both chores and behavioral things on the chart). At the end of the week, they turned in the red chips for their allowance. I don't remember how much each chip was worth- maybe a quarter.

As far as the fighting issue, I'm no help- DS and DD argue and fight constantly. I tend to get really agitated right when they start and separate them before I turn into a screaming mean mom. :scared1:

Hope you find a system that works, and thanks for starting the new thread.....I think it will be a great help!

Amy

[KirstenB]

Becky, I like both these ideas. I'm a softy, but I'd give 1 warning before taking a chip away for the computer/wii. Like if they were at work, and a new policy were implemented, a good manager will allow for some adjustment.

I like the idea of chips. They're tangible and pretty indestructible. They could also serve as a fidget toy. Can you tell I'm taking notes for our future use??:goodvibes

[BeckyScott]

mechurchlady, you can certainly join in for your mom.

As far as the screaming, there are two causes. One is that this is what Justin does for a tantrum, he doesn't fling around or anything, he just screams. Frankly, it's worn on every last nerve I have. And then the boys scream when they are arguing. Which is often. I think giving a warning is fair enough, just wanted to make sure I wasn't being wimpy. ;)

I couldn't find any poker chips at Wally World, and I did look by the playing cards and games. I did find (if anyone is interested) in the party supply section bags of fake gold coins, like for a pirate birthday party. But I know we had bought a bag of them maybe a year ago, one of the boys wanted them, so I suspect there are some lurking around our house already. I wouldn't want them to hit a treasure trove one day and me stuck trying to figure out where all the coins came from. So for now I will just whip up something on the computer. If they wear out, easy enough to replace.

[mechurchlady]

The next time a kid screams for 90 minutes I WANT BOK CHOY whip out the hunting muffs, lol. What is good for the gosling is good for the goose.:rotfl:

Right now mom is really really good since she heard me purging this morning. Food again. It is strange that if she wants something it has to be NOW but then she is really good later. She does have empathy in her but when she wants something or if she is on a track like talking about something on the news then I could stand there on fire and not get her empathy. I just need to get her to focus once in a while. Will have to make a special dinner.

Hugs Becky and you are doing a great job. The hard part is that it is a long term repetitive thing which means you might fail. As said the apple does not fall from the tree.You are going to have to battle your own quirks and stick to the regime and you are going to have to play FAIR. If one child gets punished or rewarded for something then the other will probably remind you that they were given too much punishment or not enough reward the next time. I will try to cheer you on and and send you some dole whips which help on the dark days. Whips are good when kids are bad, yep, you eat a dole whip and relax.:lmao:

Ooh I found a cheerleader uniform in 3X but if you hear of earthquakes in my area you know what happened.:rolleyes1
:cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2:
GO Becky GO
You are the one.
GO Becky Go
Yeah Becky and all the people at disboards.

hugs
Laurie

[bouncycat]

My ds's class uses a daily point sheet, I use that as my radar for computer/playstation/outside play. He has a daily goal he has to make, which means doing his work, etc. If she doesn't meet that goal, he doesn't get his priveledges. If he does meet the goal, then he does get those, AFTER he's done his homework and his chore...which is emptying the dishwasher. My dh left for his patrol the beginning of november, and told ds that he's the man of the house and has to look after mom now while he's gone....so ds has been doing alot of the things dh does, like take out the trash, etc. which is NICE!!! There are times I dont' even have to ask!! The past month have been the best, and he has been rewarded nicely for it. (he's earning spending money for disney day next week) He's earned over $21 already! I'm so proud. Anyways, I think the token or chip idea is a GREAT idea! That keeps track of their times and stuff, with 2, it's gotta be alot harder then keeping track of one. and one MAJOR thing I've learned is the FOLLOW THRU!!! That's important. It's easy to get them to stop yelling is to give in, my ds went thru a door slamming phase, and i told him he does it one more time, and i'm taking his door off...and I DID!! he had to change without a door on. He didn't like that one bit!! Remember even if it's more work for you, FOLLOW THRU! It does make life easier in the long run, it's been over a year and ds hasn't slammed a door!!!

[C&G'sMama]

We haven't used a chip system. I'm the wimpy one (but I've gotten better) DP is the tough one. FYI, DP is koolaidmoms so you may see posts from both of us. But we each have a slightly different perspective. We agree overall but like all parents we have different styles.

We do take away privileges and give him warnings beforehand. To me it's so hard sometimes because they get in this zone and can't get out. Last night it was the Bok Choy and tonight it was not being able to go to the Y for Kids Night Out because he doesn't have a bubble. He was told he wouldn't go to gymnastics if he didn't stop and he stopped. There are other times he doesn't stop so he misses out. The kids get 2 hours of screen time a day (except on school days). So their screen time gets taken away if they misbehave. And that works. But sometimes nothing works, I could take away every prvilege in the world. And really that's the time I take a time out and he goes to his room and screams it out. But he's 5 now, I'm guessing it will look different when he's older.

I feel I don't have as much to offer to those with the older kids because you've been through the 5 year old stage. But it's nice to get ideas from those that have been there.

[koolaidmoms]

We haven't used a chip system. I'm the wimpy one (but I've gotten better) DP is the tough one. FYI, DP is koolaidmoms so you may see posts from both of us.

The kids get 2 hours of screen time a day (except on school days).

Okay. Whose children are you talking about? It is 1/2 hour not 2 Hours! Twenty minutes on computer or 1/2 hour of television. No wonder they like it better when Mama is home with them! :sad2:

[DisDreaminMom]

Becky- try the tickets they sell for raffles, drawings, etc. They are in the office supply section of Wal-Mart and how much fun is it to count out tickets, tear them off, and throw them away at the end of the week. I can't do poker chips because they end up everywhere. It's like going to Chuck E. Cheese (stomach flu, anyone?). With 2 kids, just tear off one side for 1st and give other side to #2 (you know the tickets they use for door prizes where you write your info on one and keep the one with the # on it?)

My kids fight a lot, too. I am completely at a loss as to what to do. Most of it is DS being loud and unable to keep his hands to himself. He just can't stop touching EVERYONE!!! He gets in trouble for that a lot at school. I know it's sensory, because he will grab my arm hard when we are out in public and ask me to grab his arm back harder. After a week in WDW in December, my right arm was 6 inches longer than my left and black and blue the entire length of it (and I'm mean and try to keep him from grabbing me!!!)

If his sister and I hate it, then my poor dogs are going to go insane. We have 2 pugs and a Rottweiler/Great Dane cross and he is so mean to the big dog that I pray she only takes half his arm off just to teach him a lesson (she puts up with his constant hitting- she's kind of a big oof). I got 2 sibling pugs from the rescue this fall, hoping 2 would keep DS occupied, but he only likes the female and is constantly grabbing her to sit in his lap. That's not bad, but he can't sit still with the dog and is always flipping her ears or hugging her too hard. Most of the times, she runs when she sees him coming. I guess it's better than the flea infested back-yard puppy mill she and her brother came from, but I know she is trying to like my son, because she loves sitting with him when he wakes up in the AM and is very calm.

I'm yelling, pleading, time-outing, taking away stuff, showing him how much he hurts by doing the same things back to him, all to no avail. When he's in the zone where he needs to be physical, nothing works. :sad2:

[DisDreaminMom]

Oh, in regards to your OP, with my NT DD, tickets and rewards work super. She can weigh the consequences, etc. But sometimes I think DS gets in a "storm" and just can't help it. He likes to scream (just for fun, mostly) and I don't even think he realizes he does it, it just comes out. Some times of the day it's terrible, and he can also go for a few days without doing it. I can tell when it's coming. So how do you punish something like that?

And for mine, getting a ticket or a sticker, etc. is not concrete enough. I have to take away whatever is in his hand AT THE MOMENT, because that's what he's focused on and I don't think he can relate a lost chip now to less "stuff" later. I like it when we have a Disney trip planned though. I can say, "Do you want me to call Mickey and cancel?" It totally worked. This is why I must go to WDW at least 2 times a year...Awfully expensive reward system...

On the fighting front- If I get mean to my kids and make some outrageous punishment, it makes them both mad at me and turns enemies into allies. This way they are working together to keep me from killing them or soothing their feelings talking about how horrible I am. Maybe you are trying to be too fair and making them compete for favors? I used to punish one or the other according to the infraction, but then they squabble about the perpetrator. Now I punish both and it makes them less apt to a). be loud enough so I can hear and b). escalate to the point that I intervene.

Bookworm, where are you? We need your input on this.

[mechurchlady]

Okay. Whose children are you talking about? It is 1/2 hour not 2 Hours! Twenty minutes on computer or 1/2 hour of television. No wonder they like it better when Mama is home with them! :sad2:
Too funny
Class take notes that all members of the family must know the rules.:lmao:

Having only a 5-year-old does not keep you from contribuing. I have an 83 year old mother who probably is spectrum or some other disorder. I am 51 and spend long holidays in the spectrum and am SI/SPD. I do not have kids, God is so wise, but that does not mean I cannot share my past dealings with kids as well as my viewpoint form someone with quirks. Juts because you do not have an older kid does not mean you cannot come up with answers and great help.

As for the zone or what I call the darkness it is very hard to get out. Today I was bad food sick and still am not recovered. I sat in the zone/darkness playing gin and needed 5 games to win a badge. I knew I was sick, sleepless, tired, in the darkness, and should quit but I had to get that badge and beat them cheating hording rotten bots. All I had to do was click the red X but I just could not let go and do so.

As for the dog he needs to learn that his actions can hurt. Bookworm has explained this over and over but you know I forget. He can help with teaching the kid to be empathic and learn to be nice to pets. I would never wish a dog would bite a kid though as I doubt that will do any good and the mess would be bad for the kid. sigh

[BeckyScott]

DisDreaminMom, last year I came home from Disney with a heat rash on my right forearm because DS wouldn't let go of me! :laughing: It was so hot and his little sweaty hand didn't let go of me for 8 straight days. And it made me really upset, cause I'd gotten a nice tan down there, but when the heat rash healed the skin was very pale and I looked pretty silly.

And bouncycat, the only interior doors we have are the bathroom and our bedroom. Both kids "lost" their doors a long time ago, in much the same way. They used to slam them or play games with one on one side and one on the other and not being very careful. I have a co-worker who lost the tip of her finger playing a silly game with her son and the door. But I warned them to stop or the doors were going away, and they didn't listen. They don't have closet doors either, because they'd do the same thing, and they were those irritating sliding doors that jump track very easily, so away those went too.

[C&G'sMama]

Okay. Whose children are you talking about? It is 1/2 hour not 2 Hours! Twenty minutes on computer or 1/2 hour of television. No wonder they like it better when Mama is home with them! :sad2:
Oh...:confused3

[C&G'sMama]

And social inappropiateness.

Last night DP, DS and I were out to dinner (DD was at the Y). He got a regular sized milkshake. Usually they give him a kid size at this place. He looks at the waiter "Steven, do you have a brain? Don't you know I'm only 5? Why did you give me a grown up milkshake?". :scared1: Fortunately Steven is the next door neighbor kid. But man, those ones kill me. He's just being his usual "no filter" self. You tell him it's inappropriate but it doesn't seem to carryover to the next inappropriate comment.

[Forevryoung]

Door Slamming: My dad fixed that one in a way I will never forget- it was traumatizing at the time (BUT it worked for 20+ years). I was 4 and my sister was 1. I was slamming doors and my parents were afraid that my sister's hand/finger would be hurt one day soon.

Dad took a carrot, stuck it in the door jam and told me to slam the door. I slammed it. The carrot split in 2 with carrot pulp on the door. He told me that is what would happen to my sisters little fingers. He then told me to slam it again. I was apparently so terrified that I refused and ran to my mom crying. I still remember the event to this day.

[DisDreaminMom]

PP, that's classic. Incredible. I've got to figure out how to apply that to the fact that if you squeeze a pug's head too hard, there is a great chance that their eyeballs will pop right out. Explaining that to DS seems to have no impact, though I'm sure actual event would make us all pass out.

[bookwormde]

C&G’sMama. Way funny story about the milkshake. This is really very much at the essence of what it is to be aspie (and to have to deal with neurotypical society). We view the world from a position of reason, rules,logic and facts (as we see them) and are compelled (really driven) to not let errors go buy without pointing them out (why wouldn’t someone want us to point them out so they could do it correctly). Over time being bombarded with logical and factual inaccuracies almost always makes an aspie “short” with people when this happens, basically the neurotypical world sets up “rules” and then chooses to ignore them all the time as well as obvious facts, as they do with any level of precision, Ask someone the time and you almost always get a “close enough” answer. Over the years I have managed to avoid telling people “they are stupid” or something similar in all but the moist egregious violation of rules or logic (which has the potential to cause significant harm), not that I do not point out the error but I have leaned to phrase it in a way that they do not realize I just told them they are incorrect until later (actually they probably come to the realization that I in a fashion called them “stupid” but it is just a lot more subtle). And it is not that I really think they are stupid but more that it is just too much effort for them to be correct. I work on this regularly with my son, so he can let people know when he thinks they are incorrect but do it in a more “thoughtful” way. My 20 YO niece still tells people all the time that they are “stupid”, for some reason she look so sweet and unassuming that she still “gets away with it”. I would compare it to a parent whose child keeps doing the same thing incorrectly (or breaking a rule) over and over again when you know the they know what is correct but do it anyway, is it right to call them “stupid”, of course not, but the frustration comes out in some fashion. I guess in the end it is not that we consider anyone stupid but just frustration that they are so factually (and rule) lazy.


bookwormde

[C&G'sMama]

Thank you Bookwormde

We struggle because we know it is how he is wired but also are trying to teach him what is and is not appropriate. We have a friend with a daughter with Asperger's. She's 13 and our friend took her out with DD's friend and DD's friend says "Hi Mrs. Smith, my that's an ugly blouse your wearing" and she has other stories but it helps us with frame of reference. I myself have always felt the need to correct someone if what they say wasn't 100 percent accurate. Well it wasn't 10:00, it was actually 10:30. Well it wasn't 100 miles it was 110. Drives DP crazy and I have gotten much better about it. As an aside I have a family member (a "married in") that wants to do a case study on our family if she ever goes for her PhD (or just for fun). She works in Special Education and now works for the state they live in and she specializes in the Spectrum. We have one nephew diagnosed on the spectrum but she is convinced there are several in the family that are undiagnosed.

Thank you again. I am off to shovel so the kids can get to Religious Ed.

[BeckyScott]

Day One Report- :eek:

We had a little family meeting at noon.

First off, I made a few lists. List of things parents HAVE to do (you know, food, shelter, medical care etc), list of things parents don't have to do but may choose to do (buy toys, provide a computer, buy junky food etc), list of things kids HAVE to do (try their best at school, be respectful etc), list of things kids don't have to do because they're kids (pay the bills, get a full-time job etc) The kids sat staring at me like I was from Mars, trying to figure out where I was going with this whole lecture.

Then I explained our two plans and passed out the $2 and the computer/Wii coupons. They had a couple of good questions that I answered. Then oldest DS went into a complete melt-down over the idea that he has limited computer and Wii time, even if he is getting along with his brother. (this is completely my fault for letting it go as long as it has) He went in his room to mourn so I didn't hassle him about it, and got over himself about 1/2 hour later.

They then proceeded to do exactly what I thought they'd do, which is that the two of them got along swell for the entire day, and they used up more than 1/7 of their coupons. As they started to cash them in, I told each one every time that they needed to be very careful because the coupons had to last until next Saturday and I didn't want to hear about it when they ran out. Yes they can earn more, but they won't add up very quick. They did get off of stuff when the timer ran out, but mostly what they'd do is cash in another 15 minutes.

DS's friend called and was on some game they play together, so DS cashed in 30 minutes to do that. It was funny to hear him on the phone, he told his friend he only had 1/2 hour, that his mom... mumble mumble... take the phone to a different room... :rolleyes1

By bedtime, oldest DS "decided" that he didn't care about extra allowance (so he says now) so he wasn't going to do any of the extra money things, only the things that got him extra computer time. Youngest DS is quite enamoured with the idea of shiny quarters, so he earned an extra helping me pick up the living room.

So far so good, although about Wednesday when they both run out of coupons, all heck is going to break loose.

[mechurchlady]

Becky, big hugs and coffee for you. It is a battle but you have to rewire the brains of kids very young so that when they are 25 they will not be bancrupt. They need to learn how to budget time now so that later in life they will not be in debt and not understanding why they cannot have everything.

Give the older one time to see his brother rich with coins and using the money to get stuff he cannot get. When he wants something special then he will have to make you cave in or he will have to cave in. At least now you have one little man around the house to help you.:lmao:

Big hugs and chocolates and dole whips
Laurie:grouphug: :cheer2: :dance3: :surfweb:

[Forevryoung]

Becky, maybe you should have them count out how many coupons are left and remind them how many days they have left ("you have 6 days until you get more" kind of thing).

If your son really has an issue with your system, maybe set up a "day's of the week strip" with a "pocket" for each day (think construction paper and a stapler). Have them put an equal amount of coupons in each pocket on Saturday that way they can visualize taking time away from another day. Might be easier to understand and reduce verbal reminders of how much time they are using (when borrowing from other days).

The first time that a kid realizes that they aren't going to get away with something that they used to get away with causes panic (any kid). The first week will be the worst and I bet that it will get better.

Good luck!

[Minnie M6]

Good luck and stay strong Becky! I remember it being pretty tough the first week of implementing the system at our house. I think weekdays are easier in general because there is more structure to the day. I really struggle with keeping screen time down on weekends, and DH doesn't back me up on limits. It was cold and dreary here this weekend, and there was too much TV and Wii time going on. Plus both kids LOVE Club Penguin right now.

I have actually considered asking our pediatrician to tell DS that he is "prescribing" no more than 2 hours of screen time per day. He tends to want to follow rules from the Doctor. I remember when he was younger he would get really upset if he couldn't take his medicine exactly at 8:00 P.M. each night (vacation was a nightmare). It turns out he understood the pedi to say he had to take it at bedtime and he was concerned about any deviation. I didn't understand it at the time, the depth of his upset over things like that. But now I feel so much more laid back about his quirks. It's like now that I know he is not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, it is so much easier to tolerate. I can actually enjoy him more, knowing that this is the way he is wired and he is not deliberately trying to push my buttons.

Keep us updated!

[ireland_nicole]

Becky- try the tickets they sell for raffles, drawings, etc. They are in the office supply section of Wal-Mart and how much fun is it to count out tickets, tear them off, and throw them away at the end of the week. I can't do poker chips because they end up everywhere. It's like going to Chuck E. Cheese (stomach flu, anyone?). With 2 kids, just tear off one side for 1st and give other side to #2 (you know the tickets they use for door prizes where you write your info on one and keep the one with the # on it?)

My kids fight a lot, too. I am completely at a loss as to what to do. Most of it is DS being loud and unable to keep his hands to himself. He just can't stop touching EVERYONE!!! He gets in trouble for that a lot at school. I know it's sensory, because he will grab my arm hard when we are out in public and ask me to grab his arm back harder. After a week in WDW in December, my right arm was 6 inches longer than my left and black and blue the entire length of it (and I'm mean and try to keep him from grabbing me!!!)

If his sister and I hate it, then my poor dogs are going to go insane. We have 2 pugs and a Rottweiler/Great Dane cross and he is so mean to the big dog that I pray she only takes half his arm off just to teach him a lesson (she puts up with his constant hitting- she's kind of a big oof). I got 2 sibling pugs from the rescue this fall, hoping 2 would keep DS occupied, but he only likes the female and is constantly grabbing her to sit in his lap. That's not bad, but he can't sit still with the dog and is always flipping her ears or hugging her too hard. Most of the times, she runs when she sees him coming. I guess it's better than the flea infested back-yard puppy mill she and her brother came from, but I know she is trying to like my son, because she loves sitting with him when he wakes up in the AM and is very calm.

I'm yelling, pleading, time-outing, taking away stuff, showing him how much he hurts by doing the same things back to him, all to no avail. When he's in the zone where he needs to be physical, nothing works. :sad2:

This may sound a tad harsh, but it is just as much our responsibility to care for our pets as our children. Not that we love them as much, or they top the priority list, but we chose to bring them into our homes, they are defenseless, and they depend on us for safety; as well as food and shelter. Being abused by our children is not better than a puppy mill at the end of the day. Dogs that are abused can become frightened and unsocial, and are at greater risk of being euthanized. If you have any feelings for the dogs, I would suggest either finding a way to keep them seperated from your child or rehoming them. I speak from a compassionate place, I also have dogs and an autistic(high functioning) child, who acts out and rages on a very regular basis. The dogs have been therapeutic, but only under very strict supervision. Before my kids (7 and 5 at the time) were allowed to touch the dogs, they had to feed, water and clean up after them. Then, at first they only were allowed to stroke the dogs on my lap. They were given positive feedback for gentle, appropriate touch, but with a rough touch, the dog was removed. Eventually, they were allowed to sit next to the dog, and that progressed to being able to hold the dog on the floor in their lap. All of these privileges were only allowed if they had enough "chips" for the day- we also use a chip system. I never, ever leave my daughter alone with the dogs. It is not in her best interests to hurt them, and certainly not in the dogs. That being said, I don't leave her alone with her brother either. If I can't be physically present with my daughter, I crate the dogs. They are used to it, and they are warm and safe.

FWIW, I am still having tremendous challenges with my daughters rages. She was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea as well, and I'm hoping surgery to correct that will help. We are also considering stronger meds. It is very hard, I am always exhausted, but I will never give up fighting FOR my daughter. The other day, as I was restraining her, right after she "reset", she actually thanked me for making her "mad" go away. I used that moment to remind her that we are all giving her tools to help her control her mad. And explaining that she is stronger than her mad. It's a slow process (mindnumbingly so) but in this case, failure is not an option.

On the sensory side, consider a weighted vest, even make a weighted jacket maybe so he gets that firm pressure. also a fabric swing or egg chair, a punching bag (my SPD son loves running into the bag), a nest of beanbags; we also use chew tubes and I have a small sandbox in the house filled with pinto beans because he like burying his hands in it. I also do a lot of kiddie burrito where I wrap them tightly in a blanket (with their head out, of course) and give some firm presure. My son is also doing better since we started Tae Kwon Do (the studio he is at is small and family run, and they are wonderful at accomodating him, while still helping him be challenged and meeting his full potential.)

We're all in this together, we're all making mistakes and trying desperately to learn from them. I've just maybe been at it a little longer :)

[DisDreaminMom]

Ireland Nicole,

DS is not with dogs unsupervised. He is never deliberately trying to hurt the pugs, but as with the rest of his life, he just doesn't have an internal voice telling him it's time to back off. It's been great that Suzie the pug has started running away from him because she runs straight to me or his DS and it is going to be the only way for him to truly understand that if he cannot control his actions, "people" don't want to be around him. And the rescue people met my son and had him interact with dogs at our home visit. It's not like he's Jeffery Dahmer trying to torture them. He just needs to know it's not OK to make her sit on his lap if she doesn't want to at the time or hug her. Gentle strokes, gentle strokes.

The big dog, Mimi, thinks the more physical the better. She loves that kid. We used to have a Jack Russell (he passed away- rattlesnake won the fight that time:scared1: ) that loved my son and would sit with him for hours, sleep with him, etc. We think the Jack Russell was ASD, too.:rotfl:

Did you explain to the Tae Kwon Do folks about your son or did you just sign him up? I have been wondering if this would be a good thing for DS to get into. Apparently, DS does very well following direction in PE but not well in free play time-that's when he gets in trouble. I've seen a lot of NT kids that make my kid look like an angel, so I'm guessing the martial arts guys have a pretty good handle on kids who don't tow the line.

[mechurchlady]

I been setting here from the beginning of this thread and finally have to say something that will offend someone. I agree with Ireland Nicole on the dog issue. The animal is being hurt and that is wrong. He has to learn those things he is lacking in his brain wiring. He may not realize that he is hurting the dog but he can and will learn that hurting the dog is wrong and not allowed. Bookworm probably has great advice on this matter and Nicole had some great ideas. Would you keep handing your kid $50 bills if he destroyed them? Then why hand him a dog if he destroys him. I think Nicole's method is something you need to try. When he starts hurting the dog then the dog is removed.

Sorry but I love animals and had to see them suffer at my mother's hands for too long. I will never get the dog that I so need for therapy and friendship because of her. I hurt very much when I read about animals being hurt, sorry but that is the way I am wired and taught.

[ireland_nicole]

Ireland Nicole,

DS is not with dogs unsupervised. He is never deliberately trying to hurt the pugs, but as with the rest of his life, he just doesn't have an internal voice telling him it's time to back off. It's been great that Suzie the pug has started running away from him because she runs straight to me or his DS and it is going to be the only way for him to truly understand that if he cannot control his actions, "people" don't want to be around him. And the rescue people met my son and had him interact with dogs at our home visit. It's not like he's Jeffery Dahmer trying to torture them. He just needs to know it's not OK to make her sit on his lap if she doesn't want to at the time or hug her. Gentle strokes, gentle strokes.

The big dog, Mimi, thinks the more physical the better. She loves that kid. We used to have a Jack Russell (he passed away- rattlesnake won the fight that time:scared1: ) that loved my son and would sit with him for hours, sleep with him, etc. We think the Jack Russell was ASD, too.:rotfl:

Did you explain to the Tae Kwon Do folks about your son or did you just sign him up? I have been wondering if this would be a good thing for DS to get into. Apparently, DS does very well following direction in PE but not well in free play time-that's when he gets in trouble. I've seen a lot of NT kids that make my kid look like an angel, so I'm guessing the martial arts guys have a pretty good handle on kids who don't tow the line.

I did speak to the studio before enrolling DS; i told them what his strengths and challenges were, and made sure that they were comfortable. In fact, they were excited about the opportunity to work with him, and really made us feel welcome. He is in a regular class, he is one of the oldest, as he is socially "immature" so he fits in well. He responds well to the structure that they have, too. The school is a Jhoon Rhee school, which I recommend; they focus on fun especially the early years, while also emphasizing respect and structure. I would be open with the school/studio. Better to find out before your child is enrolled if they are not willing to "accomodate" so to speak. Not so much in ADA terms, but more whether they really want to teach your child. That's not something that can be legislated, and I want my child to be under care/teaching/supervision of people who really want him to be there. BTW, he loves it!

[C&G'sMama]

Has anyone tried the "card" system at least for younger children. I was thinking about that. At school everyone starts the day out green and then there are consequences if you go to yellow, to orange to red. They can go back a space. My DS had his card turned once. It hasn't happened since. So I'm thinking of trying it at home. This way he has a visual of where he is at. Yellow would be a warning, orange would be a penalty and Red would be bigger penalty. The next day you start all over. I've talked to him about it and at first he did not like the idea, but when I explained it could help him know where he is he kind of thought it might be a good idea. I just have to get there. Just wondering if anyone has tried this already.

[BeckyScott]

DisDreamin, when we started taekwondo, the instructor/owner let us do a couple lessons for free. I would think, especially in this economy, they would be really wanting new students, they'd let you try before you buy. And there might be other things necessary- DS stayed in the preschool class (which was much less serious) into the 2nd grade. I was the one that finally pulled him out of that class and into the regular beginner class, he was just so much bigger than the rest of the kids it started to bother me. The other parents were very nice and they all knew DS's diagnosis, so it didn't bother them that this very tall 6-year-old was still in the preschool class. Or at least that's how they acted when I was around. ;)

We did have some problems that kinda bugged me but I ignored. (aside from other problems I've mentioned before, like him using his stranger-escape techniques on me) The school we went to had heavy emphasis on testing and going to tournaments, and I think that's pretty common with ATA schools. You will probably be able to tell pretty early on if the school does that. It wasn't required but heavily encouraged, so you always kinda felt out of the loop if you didn't go to tournaments or really didn't care about belt rank. Having said that, ATA tournaments do have a special room/area for disabilities, so if we did go there would have been accomodation.

(speaking of, I believe the accomodations room is divided between physical and mental disabilities, which is giving me a flashback to that previous thread here) But point being, your child wouldn't be competing against an adult in a wheelchair, they consider them two very different things. We didn't go to tournaments (very occasionally DH would go to one) because they are money-sucking events.

I guess the bottom line is that we're not big into competition, that's not why we were taking class. And once you got out of preschool-level, that was the emphasis.

The upside was that there were many kids with ADHD there (this seems to be a common thing to try out when your kid is ADHD) and the main instructor had worked with several different disabilities before. There just came a point where DS "hit the wall" ability-wise and it got frustrating to him and I both, because he would have been in that beginner class for probably forever. But we managed well over two years before that happened, so it might not be a consideration for you at this point. While they were well-versed in how to do testing accomodations for physical disabilities, there wasn't anything in place for anything else. They had specific guidelines set up for what to do if, for example, you had no use of your legs, how to modify the testing so that the forms were done only with arms, etc etc, but nothing in place for situations like autism where there were some physical delays along with all the other stuff. I was torn between wanting to "make a difference" and lead them into better policy, and being tired of trying to save the world and just going home to watch Grey's Anatomy instead. If you kwim.

[DisDreaminMom]

Tanks for info on Tae Kwon Do. Will look around in my area for qualified place and give it a try.

To poster who was asking about the card system (green, yellow, red), this is great. It's been used with DS since Pre-K and he totally gets it for the most part. I even had the sitters use it for him and it worked. Little kids can understand it because it's just like a stoplight. I use it a lot this summer, when boredom makes DS a little out of his mind and behavior escalates.

And to those of you who are concerned, please know that dogs are fine. DS spent half an hour quietly on sofa yesterday rubbing Suzie's tummy (her favorite). He started to want to hug her and then looked at me when I warned him and said, "I should go play-I don't want to make Suzie mad at me!" and ran off to his room.

Here's the deal- all children- not just ASD kids- need to learn how to treat animals. I've seen much worse from "normals" and after years spent doing horse rescue, I know that there are some people who really don't care how kids treat the animals. And if you saw how rough my pugs play with other dogs, be assured that they are not nearly as fragile as we think they are. (Though I do worry about eyes, but I could pull them too hard on the leash and do the same damage by accident). Dogs are supervised! I'm just waiting for the time when DS finally gets it like he did yesterday. It's coming.

How open are you to other people about your kids' diagnosis? Becky got me wondering. My DH doesn't like me to talk about it unless I have to, but sometimes it explains so much and avoids headaches. What do you do?

[DisDreaminMom]

Oh, Becky, how is it going in the house with system in place?

Interesting thing happened yesterday. I picked up kids from school and DD immediately said one of the boys from her class was teasing and being mean to DS in the carpool line. She was very angry about it (he didn't say much, though). She spent the rest of the day being SO nice to him. I couldn't believe it! I asked her how/why she was so nice to DS and she said she felt bad that the kid was so mean to him.

I asked her if she noticed that while she was being nice to him and playing with him, he never did anything to antagonize her the entire day. Usually he does a few things to get her attention, but since he had it the whole afternoon, he was just fine. It was so nice and peaceful...How can I pay the kids in the carpool line to be mean to DS so DD will keep on feeling bad for him?????:confused3

[BeckyScott]

Well, they're going to run out of coupons I'm guessing tomorrow. They can earn more, but not much. So that will be when it all breaks loose.

As far as who I feel the need to tell, it kinda depends on the day and the situation. When DS was younger, he was quite the flapper, so it was pretty easy to spot and saved me some work. I will always tell medical people or in an educational setting. That includes stuff like taekwondo or swim lessons, although I only tell the people he's in direct contact with. I think actually I've started mentioning less as he gets older. He's tried to use it as an excuse a couple of times, and I realized that he picked up on me mentioning it, so I've stopped saying anything unless it was really necessary.

As far as taekwondo went, I think most of the moms figured it out by themselves- plus- there were a couple of moms who worked in the school system and already knew him, or moms who were nurses, or one or two who would tell me they had a nephew with autism or their neighbor's child... stuff like that... so it wasn't a big deal. It also made me feel more comfortable when I would go out on the floor with him, that they knew why I was out there, or if their kids wanted to know why this huge child was in their class, they could explain it properly.

I don't just casually mention it to other parents at the playground. Except for the time that another mom came up to me and asked specifically, because she had suspected a PDD with her own son.

[koolaidmoms]

I am very open with most things but I have been burnt by a few parents when telling them about DS diagnosis. I told one mom, our older kids have been in class together for 2 years and were fairly friendly, about DS and after that she avoided us and would keep her DS away from my children. I have had something similar happen two other times so now I don't know.

DP is much more open about it. She will look right at strangers or others who make rude comments about DS's behavior or inappropriateness and tell them, "Just be thankful your child isn't autistic." (DS has been diagnosed with autism even though the Developmental Ped. thinks it is really Asp. Syn. and once he matures enough that is where he will land on the specturm.)

DD the other day had a friend in the car with us and DD's friend had finally had enough of DS and his perceverating on something and told him in no uncertain terms she was done with him. DS of course kept going. DD's friend was not pleased but DD looked at the friend and said, "He has autism. If you don't know what it is I have a book at home you can read." DD's friend stopped and let it go. I smiled inside. That is the first time she has kind of stuck up for him! :lovestruc

[mechurchlady]

Today I finally am seeing the variations in mom. Today is a bad day for her and I can tell that I am going to have to walk on eggs or get melt downs and fits. I had to wait for her coughing spell to end then she had to tell me the very important news that there was stuff on the door, OH MY. It did not matter that I had just told her I rolled out of bed and got wedged between the bed and book case. Normally she would ask questions and have concern but she was telling me in detail everything I had to do like "Put the book and rug against the door", put the mail there, and get the stuff off the door.

You think rules police is bad wait until you get someone who has to tell you to do everything. She would tell me everything in the fridge when I would go get something to eat. Remind me to lock the door, close the door, take out trash, and all of this is stuff I do automatically like turn off the porch light. A simple minute of stepping out the door and getting mail can end up with me getting 10 reminders like close the door.

Another of her quirks is not being able to say "I need" or "I want". She will drop a lot of hints but will never tell me she wants to go some place, needs new clothes, would like a hot dog, or anything. I have spent most of my life running from her and now I can see these quirks. Can you imagine a person who cannot tell you that they need new clothes or would like a certain book? Does anyone else have someone like that in their life?

Sending hugs and chocolates to all and warm wishes.
Laurie :cheer2: :hug: :surfweb:

[ireland_nicole]

Koolaidemom: Good on your daughter! she is showing wonderful maturity and poise!!

Mechurchlady: keep holding on; there will be better days too, I hope. Have you looked into any day programs or respite or in home support?

As far as letting people know; it's a constant balancing act and I never know if I'm doing the right thing... I do have an autism ribbon on the car, and at Disney at least we wear t-shirts. I have also been known to make comments; usually just "adventures in Autism" to adults who say something mean/inappropriate. It's usually enough to get them to stop.


BeckyScott: keep it up! you're doing great!!!

[BeckyScott]

Okay, I forgot about the autism ribbon on the car. And DH's car. And my MIL's car. (we bought three and couldn't figure out what to do with the spare) My MIL is not exactly the best spokesperson for ASD, but she does like to stick stuff on her car.

I've met other parents that way. I was at Wally World once, and a woman with an autism ribbon on her car was loading groceries into her trunk, so I stopped and talked to her. It was a grandma. And once, we must have been out of our minds, we were driving down the street and the person in front of us had one. We followed her back to her house. :eek: Amazingly, she didn't think we were crazy. The thing is, it used to be pretty unusual to spot those ribbons, now it's more common. Very sad. And there isn't a support group here (although a mom just started one, first meeting Thursday night so I'm going) so it's hard to find other parents. And I believe the mom who started the support group has a preschooler, which seems to be the way it works around here, usually DS is older than the other kids and instead of getting good info, I'm the one giving the good info. I mean, that's okay, but sometimes you want to hang out. She is having a local chiropractor speak at the meeting, locally he is known as sort of a quack, so it will be perfect (seriously), I'll have to ask him about the DAN stuff and see if he knows much about that, would save me some travel time.

Yesterday the kids were starting to rebel a bit, and I tried my best to squash that.

mechurchlady- just an idea, I don't know if this would work or not. The stuff that is automatic routine at your house-- for example, the going-to-bed routine of checking the doors, etc, or the steps involved in retrieving the mail, is it possible your mother could write down the steps for you? She could make a list of all the steps that you need to follow, and then you could stick it on your fridge or by the front door. Then when it's time you could tell her you're checking thru her list, carry it around with you while you do the stuff you normally do anyway. Then maybe she'd quit bugging you every time? It might not work at all, she might still feel the need to double-check, but on the off chance that it will help, it might be worth trying. She'd know that you have all the important stuff listed right there and won't forget it, and you'd be spared the constant barrage of yapping.

[mechurchlady]

Hugs Becky tight and gives her chocolates.

It is her coping mechanism like with autistic kids. Stress and illness bring out her quirks. When the quirks come out she copes the best she can. I just ignore it as she is not being bossy but just rattling off how everything should be. Even if it is out of order like put the rug against the door then lock the door.

I cannot put her in day care as it is a pain in the rump to get her out of the house. Pluck stray hairs, shave mustache, other grooming, change clothes. I rue the next trip to the doctor because it will be her demanding I do things even though I also have other things like bathroom, find keys and move the car.

You just live with it and love them despite their quirks. I let her speak until done or I will get a hissy fit and she will ignore what I am saying. I listen to her boring stories and obsessions with certain news stories. 9/11 was horrible for me in that she kept repeating over and over certain graphic bits. It is obsession like. Like your kids you just live with them and their quirks. You train them as best you can and live what you cannot change. I love her very much and when I see your kids I wonder what her life would have been life if she was loved and doted on and had parents that fought for her.

You parents look at my mom and me and be ye warned that without loving parents and strong community and school system your kids could end up like us. Breakfast time which is peanut butter, two sourdough toast, a spoonfull of jelly sometimes, mild jack cheese, and coffee with 2 sweet n low, 3 spoons of canned milk. Everyday the same thing. Dinner requires me giving her lots of food so she will fill up on what she loves. I even have eaten cold veggies (sensory issues) just to get them down and to get her to eat.
In the end I will stay with her and read this board for advice and idea.

Quirks and all you still love them and you duck the blows when they come. Just keep on and hope for the best. Keep your eyes out for good news from someone who went up against a school. Cannot say yet but it is good news. :dance3:

[DisDreaminMom]

Okay, Mechurchlady, here are more hugs. Good lord, I hope she's not physically violent with you. My grandmother was exactly like your mom and it was so hard on everybody. She was the most vile, abusive, selfish woman; though when she needed something from someone (most likely a stranger), she could be as sweet as honey. God help you if you were on her bad side. And she loved men but hated women. And she cut me out of the will when I had my first child. She always said children ruined her life and never wanted me to have any (mainly so I could take care of her). Glad she can't torture anyone anymore. She ruined so many people's lives with her behavior.

OK, now we have a new problem. We moved into a new (for us) very old house on Sunday. It's right near the road, so you can hear cars go by. It also has a heat pump (the kind that goes on and off all the time) and creaky wooden floors. Kids are on 2nd story. Now DS won't go to sleep because he's scared UNLESS he has the TV on (he only can watch movies). His sister is camping out with him, but as soon as she goes to sleep, he is scared and stays glued to TV.

Normally he is a great sleeper (if he can actually get to sleep!). Do you think this will burn itself out or should I get tough and turn off TV? He just winds himself up soooo much and would cry all night if I let him. He is truly frightened. I know it's only been a few days, but he's already exhausted. I do leave the lights on, too. (Full disclosure- I slept with lights on until I got married- I hate the dark unless there is 6'5" hunky man protecting me). DD can sleep through anything, but DS will watch until he passes out from exhaustion.

[mechurchlady]

The apple does not fall from the tree. Where did the tree come from? As you all sit here and talk about the quirks of your kids have you started noticing that some of you also have quirks. Little habits or have to have things a certain way or maybe you are have to have things done a certain way. I am realizing that I am an apple from a tree that is from a tree that is from a tree. My cousin used to get up and always before school crawl into her mother's bed. Every Saturday as a kid I would visit our grandmother and crawl into her bed and burrow in there. I think your mom probably had some neurovariations that made her the way she was.

I do not know what to tell you to do about night noises. You can try rationalizing the noises and explaining them to him. He wants the television to mask the noises. Does he have hyper hearing? Some kids and my mother can hear far away stuff. My mom could hear the cows lowing clear in Dairy Valley which was like miles away. Maybe the ladies and bookworm can come up with some ideas.

I will never give up on mom because I now know she is broken merchandise that has been cast off by society. She had them fits not because she was evil but she was overwhelmed. I am the miswired apple from a gnarled and damaged tree that once was an apple that fell close to a tree.

Now time fo rhugs and chocolates and for Becky the usual coffee.
:dance3: :hug: :cloud9: :woohoo: :thumbsup2 :cheer2: :grouphug:

[DisDreaminMom]

About the hyper hearing, when I was a child, I could hear the alarm system at the mall when I walked through the main doors. I would start screaming and crying until I got far enough away to make the intense sound in my ears go away. It was painful and many years later, I can still clearly remember how it made me feel. My mother thought I was lying until she asked the security guard one day and he said the only thing that could hear the system was a bat. After that, my mom used the entrance at the other end of the mall that didn't have that system.

DS does most likely have same problem. And yeah, if you read enough about ASD, you will realize that there are a lot of us that fall somewhere on the spectrum but we develop coping skills, marry great people, have good NT parents (my dad was wonderful). People often ask me why I'm not a raving loon, after the childhood I had. I just say they don't know me well enough! (But I'd bet that's why I like Disney so much...) It's all in how you look at it.

It's too bad that your mom didn't get the help she needed. I'm so sorry. But look at all the good you are doing for all of us. It's not our job to fix the past that we have no control over- but we'd be wrong not to try to prevent history from repeating itself.

[Minnie M6]

DisDreaminMom,

What about trying some type of white noise machine? I have to have one to sleep, I have since college. Any little sound would keep me from falling asleep. It may cover the noises that are scaring him. DS has one in his room now and it helps to keep him from waking up at the crack of dawn. The past couple of nights he wanted to sleep with the lights on....he said he started thinking about what it was like to die and it was freaking him out. Poor guy was crying- I felt awful for him. I talked to him for quite a while and let him keep the lights on that first night (Tuesday), but last night I told him that he could not start that habit or he would not be able to go to sleepovers. That seemed to work (even though he is rarely invited to sleepovers) because his best friend wants him to sleep over this weekend. I do plan to go get him a nightlight today though.

Mechurchlady,

Major hugs and chocolates to you too! Your Mom is lucky to have you. I think you're right on target about the apple and the tree thing. I won't even tell you about my OCD finger counting and spelling :rotfl:

[sdarwkcabemanmy]

We certainely had a behavior challenge (which is pretty uncommon for DS) today.
His teacher called me and told me he was refusing to print his name on the sign in sheet (which they do every single day) because he 'wasn't allowed to'. :confused3 I talked to him briefly and he said he was sad because he missed his daddy. Aww...:hug: I told him DH would be home tonight and he needed to cooperate with Mrs. Awesomesauce (not her real name ;) ) and do what she told him. He said he would and then we hung up. Poor guy..DH hasn't been home at all this week except to eat or sleep and I guess it's finally starting to take a toll on DS.

He needs to get used to it though..DH's final for his EMT basic class is next month and when he gets hired on at a fire dept, he'll probably we working several days in a row where he has to be at the firehouse.

[ireland_nicole]

Disdreamin Mom: is there any chance he would listen to a radio? Or could you leave his tv on but on a sleep timer so it didn't affect his sleep all night? or is there anything else that can reduce the noise? It's always scary in a new place, and to be honest, I don't know that the "tough love" approach is always the best for our "unique" kids. I know this sounds like a cop out, but honestly, I would ask what do you feel in your heart is the right answer? I'd try that one first, b/c it's probably the right one. Also, maybe ask DS's therapist/psychiatrist/neuro type individual if they have any suggestions. In the meantime, :hug:

sdarwkcadbmanmy: (btw, is there any name easier to remember and write that I can call ya lol? that screen name is a doozy) I promise, it will get better. ya'll are almost there. And when I was an EMT firefighter, we used to work 24/48 which is awesome for a dad. Yes, he's gone one full day, but then he's home for 2 which means a lot more quality time and time to play, hang out, etc. Sounds like your little guy is doing a good job talking to you about his feelings, and that's awesome.:hug: to you, too.:)

[BeckyScott]

DisDreamin- confession time, everyone in our house sleeps with a tv on.

First it was Justin, he wouldn't sleep without the tv. A radio didn't work, night light didn't work, had to be the tv. I mentioned it at an eval once and basically got told we had plenty of other more important things to worry about. :laughing:

Well, at the time, both kids were sharing a room, so Richard got used to sleeping with the tv on. When we split them up, he wanted the tv on since he was used to it, plus of course, "it wasn't fair". :sad2: It's more of a problem for him, though, he will stay up too late watching it. For Justin, anymore it's just white noise and he'll knock out anyway. So I'd say it could burn itself out, or it could not, it's gonna depend on the kid.

Good thing you have him trained to only watch movies, at least. I leave the cartoon channels on, which you have to be careful you don't end up with Adult Swim in the middle of the night. What you could also do is leave it on a tv channel, but make it a really boring one, not cartoons, so it would provide the security he wants without being so entertaining that he'll try to stay awake. You can also try turning the volume down just a little bit more every couple of days until it's very quiet. Both kids tv's are turned down very low. We had a problem a couple of times with the tv making noise, like an explosion on the tv or someone on the tv screaming, and waking the kids up. So we have to keep the volume pretty low so they don't hear that.

Me, what happened was DH started working overnights and we have an old house on a busy street and I'm paranoid. The Fox News people keep me company. Even now, he works 2nd shift so he gets home around midnight, I still have the tv on. And he doesn't bother turning it off when he goes to bed.

Gee, and I remember when the tv stations used to go off the air at like 11:00, I don't know what we would have done then.

My suggestion would be, if you really don't want to do the tv, how about a humidifier? I was just thinking, cause we have one, it does make white noise and a cheap one is kinda loud, and it does provide a useful service.

So looking toward the future, our kids are obviously supposed to be room-mates when they get older, cause nobody else is going to put up with that nonsense.

[mechurchlady]

Big hugs and lots of chocolates

Mom is deaf and I have to pronounce carefully and clearly but not loudly "Do you want steak or chicken?" Loudness means I am yelling at her and she shuts down or says "Don't start with me" or to that effect. The funny thing is she can tell when I am in the bathroom if she needs me. She will startle at the sound of falling bowls in the kitchen and she will get me to come to her and she sets in bed bleary eyed because she heard noises. Go figure how she cannot hear me but she can hear the bowl falling and a noise in the driveway. You are lucky they did not call you Batty, lol.

I sleep with the computer on. Which I am about to do now. I think you that mom needs to get some books on monsters that turn out to be nothing. Reassure him and rationalize his fears. Television and humidifiers mask the problem. What if a kid is afraid of dogs? Would you work to get the kid to like dogs or shelter the child from all dogs for life? Eventually he may have to move again and will be hiding in fear with the television on.

As with many things in life a person with hypersensitive hearing will assume that how they feel and the noises they hear are normal. Doesn't everyone hear the cows lowing a mile away? You need testing and some things you can do at home. Mom is a jumper when it comes to noises. "OMG. What happened?" I cna be cleaning a pan and she reacts. Sorry but that pan is heavy and I let it down hard on the stove. Watch for jumping at something simple like a set of keys plopped on a table. Startled, jump, freaking out and yelling OMG.

I need a hot fudge sundae right now but life is good now that I know why I and mom are the way we are.

[koolaidmoms]

Good thing you have him trained to only watch movies, at least. I leave the cartoon channels on, which you have to be careful you don't end up with Adult Swim in the middle of the night. What you could also do is leave it on a tv channel, but make it a really boring one, not cartoons, so it would provide the security he wants without being so entertaining that he'll try to stay awake. You can also try turning the volume down just a little bit more every couple of days until it's very quiet. Both kids tv's are turned down very low. We had a problem a couple of times with the tv making noise, like an explosion on the tv or someone on the tv screaming, and waking the kids up. So we have to keep the volume pretty low so they don't hear that.

Me, what happened was DH started working overnights and we have an old house on a busy street and I'm paranoid. The Fox News people keep me company. Even now, he works 2nd shift so he gets home around midnight, I still have the tv on. And he doesn't bother turning it off when he goes to bed.

Gee, and I remember when the tv stations used to go off the air at like 11:00, I don't know what we would have done then.

My suggestion would be, if you really don't want to do the tv, how about a humidifier? I was just thinking, cause we have one, it does make white noise and a cheap one is kinda loud, and it does provide a useful service.

So looking toward the future, our kids are obviously supposed to be room-mates when they get older, cause nobody else is going to put up with that nonsense.

We don't allow the children to have tvs in their rooms but when they end up sleeping with us we found the Food Network works really well to put them to sleep! It is fairly interesting and there is never any explosions and we tell the kids to watch how they make the stuff and maybe we can try some out. Plus there is the how they make the packaged food they eat segments and the history or science of foods. There is not a great deal of movement, bright colors or other things to stimulate their brains.

We have lots of things that make noise to mask other things in our home. A humidifier during the winter in the upstairs hallway and the kids run fans from the moment we turn it off in the spring to late in the fall. They also have cd players that turn themselves off after one time through unless they are reset.

We also let them leave their lights on to sleep and we just turn them off when they fall asleep. DD can wake up and not mind but DS is deathly afraid of the dark. He will turn his light back on if he wakes up (at least he doesn't scream anymore). When he falls back to sleep we turn it off again. We do leave the hall or bathroom light on so it is not too bright in the other rooms.

I learned in college to sleep through lots of noise. Believe me college dorms are not quiet! I really think that is why I need the noise I have now. :)

[Mommy2three]

i have two children with behavior problems. Today my 7 year old son (today is his birthday) was throwing tantrums every 20 minutes, screaming, crying, yelling, punching and kicking walls, almost tore the bathroom to pieces but was caught right beforehand, slamming doors, stomping on the floor, being very very horrible. Very defiant today. He is ADHD, mood disorder, sensory integration disorder, auditory processing disorder. He is homeschooled. His older sister 8, is also homeschooled and has ADHD, bipolar, schizophrenia, DID, ODD, OCD, she has been on medication since she was 6 years old, and is doing well overall. I am at my wits ends on what to do, nothing works, reward charts dont work, no punishment works. He has in home counseling, and I was very close to calling the police today, thats how uncontrollable he was.

[mechurchlady]

Mommy2three all I can do right now is hug you and tell that you are loevd and a great mother. Give the people here time to talk with you. He was overwhelmed by the birthday as stress is often a trigger. The police cannot do anything though. Read up on the lady here who has two interior doors, the bathroom and her bedroom are the only one in the whole house because the kids slammed doors so much.

Hugs and prayers and chocolates for you.
Laurie :cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust: :cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust:
:wave2: welcome to the board a good thread.

I need some explaining at to high sensitivity condition as that fits mom the most. Is HCD seperate from SID/SPD or a disorder all its own. I passed the test but honestly that is not me but it is mom.:laundy:

[bookwormde]

Mommy2Three,

What you describe is “alphabet soup children”, the manifestations you are seeing is actually quite typical with this level of secondary diagnosis’s without finding the core reason. From my experience there is an extremely high chance that your children are on the autism spectrum. To put it bluntly the clinicians that your children see, in this day and age, would be considered to be negligent for not referring you to a major medical center with a clinicians who specialize in the Autism neurovariant with a subspecialty in HFA and Aspergers for a complete evaluation.
The reasons children who have an alphabet soup set of diagnosis deteriorate so rapidly and just build overlays of additional diagnosis are 2 fold. First is that many of the treatments and medications are contraindicated for Autism spectrum individuals and at best just do little good and in the worst cast actually accelerate the occurrence and acuity of the manifestations until they eventually become acute enough to become a separate clinical diagnosis. Second is that they are not getting the supports and understanding that is needed to allow them to understand the nature, challenges and benefits of their neurovariation and for parents, family, clinicians and educators to make sure they get the appropriate and state of the art supports that they need.

What you are seeing is what you would expect from a child who was being abused on a daily basis. This is not intended to be a criticism of you as a parent since you are not trained or educated to understand what you are “dealing with”. It is a serious indictment of the clinicians who have been treating your children. Please become educated as quickly as possible about higher functioning Autism and find some new clinicians who are highly experience in Autism spectrum evaluation and clinical practice. Order a copy of Tony Attwoods’ The Complete Guide To Aspergers C2007 available on Amazon for about $25. The day after you read it your life and your children’s will improve immensely and progress back from the abyss can begin

There is good news, there is likely nothing at the core “wrong” with your children, they just have a neurovariation which makes them different so they do not “mesh” with neurotypical society without special supports education and accommodations. When well supported these children (and adults) are a great gift to society due to their special abilities and nature (typically highly inventive, creative and inventive, non-discriminatory, heightened level of social justice, able to hyperfocus in areas of interest, abilities to do amazing visual/ non-linear processing as examples)

Again as much as possible do not feel guilty about what you did not know in the past (although all of us as parents who have been through this do to an extent) just understand that much of what you where taught by society and your parents about how to parent was for neurotypical children and is not appropriate for spectrum children and that is why you are having so little positive results and are dealing with the maladaptive manifestations that come from this “standard” approach. Our children are “different” and accepting that fact and avoiding measuring them by and trying to turn them into neurotypicals (which is were most of the damage occurs) is the first major step to progress and a productive, fulfilling and enjoyable life for them

If you have any questions please feel free to ask or PM me.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

Mommy2three, big group hug. :grouphug: You're not having much fun.

Have you looked into seeing a DAN dr? While they usually deal with autism spectrum, they will see your kids. http://www.autism.com/dan/danusdis.htm It's possible that there might be things you can do to alleviate some of the problems, using dietary interventions and supplements. Not a "cure". There are kids with autism that have very bad behaviors until they are taken off of gluten and casein. Sometimes there are digestive issues or vitamin deficiencies that can really mess up your kid, and most regular doctors aren't going to delve into that. There is also the possibility of metals toxicity, which can really really affect behavior. Many DAN's don't take insurance but some of them do, and they'll usually want to do labs, some of which are covered by insurance and some aren't. It can get expensive, but it might be worth a shot if you're at your breaking point. They tend to "think outside the box" and look at the whole child as opposed to doing the alphabet soup.

Many DAN's will want to have you keep a food diary before the first visit, and that's always a fun experiment. You could try to do that now, and see if you notice a pattern. If that's what's going on, the reaction is sometimes delayed a day or two. I know for fact that my oldest DS (ADHD and slightly Aspie but one of my two reasons for starting this thread) cannot tolerate red food coloring. At all. Around here, red food coloring is the devil. pirate: (okay, there is not a devil smilie, guess I have to use the pirate, LOL) I am wondering, just out of curiosity, the incident you're mentioning, since it was his birthday if he had been eating anything that he doesn't normally eat, that day or the day before...

Please don't think I'm trying to downplay your problem, saying "oh he just needs some fish oil and he'll be fine", trust me that is not what I mean. I'm just saying it might be a good idea to eliminate any physical problems that might be happening, and that a regular doctor is going to give you the eye-roll if you mention, before pursuing more drastic measures. I got to a point where I was willing to try almost anything that was not dangerous.

Please please please, feel free to post and vent here, that's what the thread is for. We all have our "bears to cross". :scared: I'm sure some of the other parents here will have ideas for you.

[KirstenB]

Mommyto3 :grouphug: I want to second the good advice you've been given about food sensitivities. Our neighbor has an Aspie son. She's taken him off of foods with dye, and his behavior is much improved.

[Mommy2three]

I want to thank everyone for the advice. Just to clarify things a little bit, I am not birth mom, I am adopted mom. Dad is the bio dad, he and I met when the kids were 2 and 4, there was abuse and neglect on bio moms part. She abandoned both of the kids when dad was over in afghanastan, when ivan was only a few weeks old and kyla was 2 years old. she left them with a 16 year old sitter and didnt come back for them until my husband got sent back to base to get the kids. she was only a block away the whole time. then they got divorced, he got an honorable discharge from the army, and all (including bio mom) moved back up here to WI. Bio mom would only take kyla until I came in the picture then said it wasnt fair, she needed to take both of them as they are both her children. She would come in and out every 3-6 months. Got sent to jail for non payment of child support, got out, said she changed, and it was agreed that she would take kids every other weekend. both were also sexually abused by an uncle. that worked for about a whole month, then she stopped calling, stopped coming to get them, and she didnt see them for about a year and a half when we took her to court and got rights terminated and I adopted them, that just happened last year in Jan 2008. His in home therapists don't think he is autistic or has aspies, but i had thought at one time he could be an aspie. he didnt start talking until about4, wasnt potty trained until 4, very immature for his age, but very very smart and is very eager to learn. He hasnt had anything unusual to eat lately, I honestly don't know what was wrong with him yesterday, we try to do calming techniques with him, but he just refuses. My oldest daughter on the other hand is getting alot better, she was very uncontrollable, but with medications and counseling she has come along way, both get SSI disability from the state also. Hope this information helps, and hope today is a better day. Not really looking forward to tomorrow as that is when his birthday party is and that normally is not a good day at all with family over.

[bookwormde]

Wow sounds like they have had a rough time to say the least. Since only a small percentage of clinicians have the training to even have a basic idea of if your children have Autism spectrum characteristics it is very doubtful that you can put muchreliance in the therapists opinion. Everything else in your description including the points towards it and the birth family history (maternal) reinforces the possibility.

It is really something that the children need, to be evaluated for formally by a clinical group which is highly specialized in Higher end Autism, especially with the complicating factors of the history. It is unfortunately not that unusual for a parent with characteristics who is not “self aware and educated about spectrum issues” and has not been supported during their upbringing and particularly if they suffered abuse as a child to end up having the parenting issues that you describe at a much higher rate than neurotypicals.

Once you read Attwood you will be in a much better position to make a decision (he is the leading clinician for HFA/Aserpgers in the world).

Thank you for being such a caring mother to these children.

bookwormde

[mechurchlady]

I once read an article about foreign orphanages and their children. The disabled and the ones who do not fight are left behind and it is a fight to get love, attention and even basic needs at times.

Your son probably has been left alone for long periods, not given proper nutrition as an infant, was abused, and did not get the normal training that children get. A child sits and watches how people around him talk, act and do things but he did not get enough of that.

First off you are dealing with many things here. He needs to be evaluated by a good doctor who can differentiate the various influences on the child. There is the possibility of post-traumatic syndrome where a trigger sets him off. A scent, food, sound, or just the mind wondering off toward thoughts related to the trigger. He may have developed phobias or certain things could have become triggers.

Also you need to look at his daily life. How does he react to stress is important. You are going to have to do scientific studies of your son and daughter both. How they talk, walk, think, react to things, etc will have to be studied by you to look for signs of disorders as well as to see what is his triggers. In the morning you need to note how he is then what if any changes occur. Food allergies should be checked as kids cannot always tell you that they are reacting to food. When a doctor tests him for HFA he will ask you a lot of questions and you should be prepared to answer them. Does the kid fidget and you answer I do not know but if you had been watching then you would notice little things. Look into his maternal medical history also. Does his mother, her siblings, siblings' kids, her parents, or her uncles have quirks, mental illness, mental retardation, or have something peculiar about them.

That boy is lucky to have you as a mom and God gave him to you for a reason. It is going to be a long long and very trying time ahead but you can do it. I will be here with hugs and chocolates and aspirin cheering for you and praying for you.

:cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust:

[BeckyScott]

Well, we got thru the first week of our little plan!

Yesterday was our second family meeting, we had a few little things to talk about and then the kids got their second round of allowance and computer coupons.

Last week went okay, with a few trip-ups. When they both still have a lot of coupons (like over the weekend), there is still a little problem with both of them wanting the computer at the same time. No fighting, but quite a bit of discussion.

Richard ran out of coupons Friday afternoon and so that was a problem. This week is going to be harder for them anyway. First off, no school Monday so they'll be home all day. And second, last week on Thursday night we went to a playgroup so we weren't home at all. (left for it an hour after school got out, and didn't get home til bedtime, although Richard did get a bonus coupon that night because he was very helpful at the meeting) Justin still had one coupon left yesterday morning, but he was intentionally keeping it because he didn't want to run out. They both have been pretty good about getting off when the timer beeps with no complaints. The only real issue they have is that they can't earn any coupons for last-minute stuff. (I did it that way on purpose) ;)

I did have a situation come up that I wasn't sure what to do. Richard's friend came over (pretty much the only friend he has). Now of course his little friend gets to play on the computer and video games as much as he wants at home, but I'm not his mommy. :sad2: And I wasn't sure what to do with him. Or what to do about it. Of course the friend wanted to play on the Wii, it was his idea as he doesn't have a Wii at his house, and wanted Richard to play with him. Richard didn't think he should have to give up coupons when it wasn't his idea. I am pretty sure that if I tell them no Wii or no computer, the kid will stop coming over, and he is Richard's only friend. But I see Richard's point, too. But it could backfire, if I tell Richard that he doesn't need to give up coupons when the friend is over, he's going to want the friend over every day. Does that all make sense?

[Mommy2three]

Yes, their bio mom and grandma both have mental issues. Bio mom has been hospitilized in the psych ward a few times. She has bipolar and schizophrenia. The therapists that work with them in our home are also therapists for autism also. Like i said before, i see alot of aspie signs in my son, and i left one thing out, hard time with eye contact. There are situations that stress him out, such as having a bunch of people over for family get togethers such as holidays and birthdays, going to the store, he has a tendency to really act out then, he thinks there are no boundries in the store, or in the general public for that matter. Yes, he fidgets a great deal. I don't think his body can stay still for even a millisecond. He does have triggers, and right now we are trying to figure out what those are, and when I do, i write them down in my book, i also keep a sleep log for him and his sister, although hes the one that has the most problem with sleep. He has actually gone 4 days with no sleep, and no naps and then he finally crashes. They both tend to be very sneaky, although I would say his sister is more so than him. She will steal things, not from a store, but from our house and other peoples houses, I always have to check pockets before leaving anyones house and when she was in public school I would have to do a pat down and a backpack check every morning. One time she took all my makeup and took it to school with her, this was after I did the backpack check and had my back turned she put it all in her backpack. She wanted to take it to school so she could go in the bathroom and put it on. She also has an eating disorder. She will make herself throw up after eating, or refuse to eat all, and that can happen for a week at a time. But my son on the otherhand is a huuuuuuuuuuge eater. He never stops. We think it is due to when being with bio mom they would never get fed, so he hoards the food now.

Becky-I do like the coupon idea. I should try that here. We have a Wii also and they are always wanting to play but they have rules in order to be able to play. When they do have their cousins over and the cousins want to play the Wii then I will allow that, but if they start acting up while playing the wii then my child has to sit out for a certain amount of time. Give them a time limit of how long you will let your child and his friend play on the wii and once that time is up then shut it off.

[mechurchlady]

Mommy2three, wow you have your hands full. I brought up the orphanage to show what happens when kids are neglected. The girl is purging and not eating probably as a passive aggressive behavior. My mother is 83 and you will hear me talk about her here. She is probably HSC, high sensitivity condition, whatever or maybe even AFD or SID or ADD. If my mother is having a fit then she will not eat. She has been this way all her life by the way. Any time she is upset she just stops eating or threatens to eat her crackers. Passive aggressive people are worse than screamers, boy are they worse.

I rather deal with a screamer than someone who quietly and sneaky will shut down by not eating. There is more to passive aggressiveness. Basically they do not want to do something but cannot or will not scream or say NO but instead slow the things they do not want to do.

The kleptomania needs counseling and retraining the kid as she probably never learned the consequences of her action. There are drugs and therapy for that. I am used to sneaking as my mom has her set ways like I cannot bring friends over ever or telling her would cause her to rage. You learn to sneak around because that is how you get things done with the least displeasure. I actually avoid the bathroom because that will wake mom which means her list of chores even if I am puking sick.

You are a smart and great momma and them kids are lucky to have you. Kep up the good work and remember that second opinions may be needed. As kids grow they change like better communication skills. The kids sounds like he is on the spectrum and should be check by a specialist. The kleptomania can be form of OCD or it could be hording. The problem with diagnosing anyone is that there could be other answers. For me I am not quite aspie or ADD but SID for sure. Mom is not aspie or autism but close then I read up on the high sensory thing and that was her to a tee. I am the apple that fell from the nut tree that fell from an apple tree.:lmao:

I sent you lots of hugs and chocolates and ice cream. Any time you want to rant go ahead as everyone here seems to have someone to care for who gives them those migraine days when you are overwhelmed. :cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust:

[C&G'sMama]

I've been meaning to ask if anyone has tried Gluten Free. We are toying with the idea and our friend who's son is autistic swears by it. I never thought about linking the dyes to behavior. DS doesn't not usually have dye as it irritates his kidneys. We discovered this when he was 3 1/2 and his face and ears turned bright red and he would go to the bathroom all of the time. Dr. said to take him off artificial colors, especially red and yellow and it makes a world of difference. Once in awhile dye sneaks by us and the ears turn red and he has to go to the bathroom. I never thought about the behaviors. We have a couple of decent natural food stores around here so for a special treat I get him gummy worms or gummy bears there, like when they made worms in dirt for a Friday treat.

He also can't have milk or juice (from fruits with edible skins) Fortunately he is not allergic to soy so he drinks soy milk. We also buy the Capri Roarin Waters for him as there are no artificial dyes and they are only 35 calories per pouch (no artificial sweetners, just low sugar).

This is another issue for us as he doesn't know when he's full. It goes along with liking hard touches and not being able to feel pain. He can't feel when he's full so he eats and eats and eats. We are working on that and trying to explain to him he doesn't know when he's full so he can only eat so much or he's going to get sick.

[ireland_nicole]

How did you find your your kiddos food sensitivities? Trial and error, testing, food diary and observation, etc.? We're trying to figure out what to change/exclude, but either those willing to do the testing insist that they will have to be GF/CF/SF, etc. even before testing, or they refuse to consider that food could be making it worse. UUGGGHH! How do you navigate this?

[C&G'sMama]

My opinion is you go with your gut and don't worry about what the experts say. You're the mom, you know. Track patterns and discuss with other parents (as you are doing here) what has worked as far as finding things out. For my friend she did some reading on gluten and autism and decided to try it. He's almost 9 and she started when he was 4 or 5. The other day he came home from school and was off the wall. She couldn't figure it out. She finally called the teacher and it turned out they had made playdough, using flour, at school.

We're still trying to figure out about our son, if food things will help. Like I said we've already quit dyes for other reasons. So I too would be curious do what people have done. Do you keep diaries of behaviors vs. food intake?

[mechurchlady]

Sue can explain better but I personally think they should test without asking the person to be free of certain foods. The best thing is elimination diets. You can also give the kid a pure form of a food like milk, soy oil, wheat germ, peanut oil, and pureed foods. The purer the better. Complex foods like cookies may take a while to break down and there could be other allergens in that food.
Look for changes like hyperness and mood changes and see if their pulse races or if the kid changes. In her case the ears turned red which was an indication of a problem like doing lab in chemistry class.

I have had my hand go numb from being covered with brown wheat filled gravy. Ooh that feels good until it hit be what was happening.:grouphug: :cheer2: :laundy:

[DisDreaminMom]

Hey, guys! Been busy moving. Finally hooked up computer and it works (whew!). Anyway, a couple of things.

First, I am way past the "cop out" as far as DS's sleep pattern goes. My plan is to let DS have TV on during weekend and I brought a recliner up to his room so on weeknights I can sit up there with him until he falls asleep. I can read, needlepoint, etc. Sometimes the path of least resistance is the best.

Second, I think we need to encourage our newest member (the lady with the step kids-we need a nickname for you!) to learn to differentiate between her childrens' behaviors that are learned versus those that are innate (possibly ASD). I was thinking that the stealing, bulimia, etc. are problems of "nurture" that need to be addressed completely differently than any psych diagnosis (or "nature"). And I agree (as always) with Bookwormde- this is complete nonsense- this alphabet soup of problems. I didn't even think you could diagnose schizophrenia until late teens or early twenties. (Good God, every kid with an imaginary friend would get that diagnosis at some point or another). Just because parent has diagnosis does not mean kids will. That's a cop out. And how do they not know parent has ASD or other problem? I guarantee Dr.'s listened to story and gave easiest diagnosis they could. They figure all you want is SS benefits. (I'm not being mean, but this is just how life is).

Third, my sister's DS (6, same age as mine) is considered completely "normal". I knew he was a little moody, and my sister seemed to coddle him a lot, but when my DH lost his job and we had to live with my sister's family for 3 months, I saw this little boy throw rages that make my kid look like a kitten. Her son became completely unglued at the strangest times. He was stealing, very destructive, constantly sick, etc. He was a danger to those around him (no joke-kid scared me to death). I pleaded with her to have allergy testing done on him. I took him to my allergist, an old Army doctor, and had to beg my sister not to take her son and leave when she saw the "scratch test" (she was afraid it would make her kid go nuts again-which he did not). Anyway, long story short- he was incredibly allergic to gluten. They did an elimination diet and within 2 days of being wheat free, the child was completely changed. Now it's six months later and my sister thanks me all the time for making her do this. She can tell within 20 minutes if DS has eaten some wheat. He ate his sister's pizza crust and knocked down a six foot bookcase (he's very small- just weighs 40 pounds, so you can imagine how freaky that is). Another time, the neighbor gave him Triscuits and he took a pair of scissors and cut off the flowers of every single plant in his and the neighbors front yard. Don't ask me about what he's done to his pets...We now work very hard to keep everything wheat free, and the kid even is aware of it now- he's very diligent about what he eats.

I'm just saying- look carefully at all the foods your kid eats and check out some books at the library about food allergies. Just because it's "normal" doesn't mean it's good for you. My DS goes nuts on Red dye.

Take some time and explore the hospitals in your area and get those kids checked out by someone that can hep them. In the meantime, try an elimination diet (1st wheat, then dairy, then food dyes, etc.) A good allergist can tell you very quickly, but much of it you can do with trial and error.

This is YOUR life here. These are YOUR kids. This can be a whole lot better and you can feel like you are in control of the situation or you can be scared of the kids. I think you are a smart cookie to take all this on and ask questions. All of us here have had to fight and ask and research on our own. Our lives may not be "normal", but we make the best of things and change plans accordingly. Good for you and your DH for helping those kids. They are still young enough to be taught, know love, discipline, comfort, and more love. You have a huge challenge, but you sound like you are aware enough to be the hero in that sad story... Big hugs. Does DH feel like things fell apart while he was away? I can only imagine...

[BeckyScott]

ireland nicole, you can go either way on it. Either do the labs first, or try it on your own and see. Trying it on your own first is cheaper. :thumbsup2 Also, most DANS will want you to do that, first thing, anyway, even before they've done any labs. I went ahead and took Justin gf/cf before the first DAN appt. Actually, I was in process of taking him gf/cf, I did it gradually not cold turkey, so he wasn't 100% but getting close.

The way I did it was to start replacing products as we ran out of something. When we ran out of milk, I bought rice milk. When we ran out of cereal, I bought gf cereal. I did buy some stuff up-front like rice flour (since it would take me quite a while to run out of real flour) but most of it got replaced one thing at a time.

Another thing I did, might not be necessary for everyone but worked for us, some of the foods I did a week's "break" when I converted over. For example, the cheese. We had regular cheese, then ran out. And then went for a week without any cheese in the house, before introducing the new cheese. DS was so happy to get cheese, apparantly he forgot what it tasted like. I also made a point to buy some extra yummies those weeks, food that was safe but were treats. Then it didn't seem like such torture. :rolleyes:

Some people knock out the dairy first, because it's the easiest, then start on the gluten. We kinda did both at once. There's also a learning curve for Mom to get used to how to cook that way (cause rice flour doesn't act like regular flour and rice milk doesn't act like cow's milk). There are also some prepared foods and mixes that are awful, like there's a macaroni and chreese mix that is nasty nasty nasty. We tried 4 or 5 different pizza crust mixes before I found the one DS liked. I used to only make bread machine bread but lately have been buying it pre-made, it's more expensive but less hassle, however if you like to bake you might really like making the bread yourself. But one thing at a time, your kid probably is self-limiting with food anyway?, and you just have to come up with stuff to replace what he likes now, you don't need to start manufacturing 4-course dinners. ;)

If you go completely dairy-free and your kid doesn't do veggies, you'll probably want a calcium supplement.

The gfcfdiet.com website has a directory of safe foods. If you go to the bottom of the front page (where they're trying to sell you stuff) and go to the "index" or "directory" I think it says, there is a huge huge listing. Some school supplies also have gluten, so I printed those pages out to take to the teacher.

[mechurchlady]

IrelandNicole there is a great GF bakery in San Antonio that will ship you pizza crust, baked goods and stuff. Aussie Bakery over by that big park on the north side of town off broadway. I died and went to heaven. I got photos from that trip somewhere.

Hugs Becky and yeah what Becky said is a good plan.

If a person is sun sensitive a doctor would say to stay out of the sun then see them. Wait you are full of allergens so keep eating them and see me in a couple months. Where is my broom to smack some idiots.

I have had no fast food for week or more and am feeling a lot better. Don't ned no stinking doctors to tell me that.

Time for hugs and chocolates.
Laurie
:cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust: pixiedust:

========================
I am melting down right now. I have had to cancel the New Hampshire trip. I have to plan a trip to Disneyland so I can start over there and am overwhelmed as I cannot afford to rend a van to get the ECV from my house or stay at a hotel across the street. I need to get an ECV into the parking lot and have people I trust go with me in the park. I am worse that 10 kids when I am bad. The E drive has dissappeared. I have little memory on C Drive. Mom demands I go to the store instead of sleep. I wish I had my own private bathroom that wor5ked. I paid over $700 to Calvin and the hospital who has not got their check so we have 10 days and only about $150 but need ore probably.

It is not fair that Calvin is on the cruise while I am stuck with mom. Life is not fair an dI stink, literally. I need a bed as this has been broken for 9 months and is hurting my rump. I need a rant. Rocking and crying and when I just get my health back and nerve to go to DLR and stuff again another wammy.


hugs
laurie

[sleepingbean]

I can recommend the book by Julie Mathews called Nourishing Hope for Autism to delve into the diet question. She covers all the main autism diet methods with their sucess rates, descriptions, how to and whys. It's an all in one kind of book.

We started with removing dyes/artificial colors and eating healthier whole foods. Then we went gluten free casein free (and we still eat that way). BUT Bean did need a bit more gut healing then that, and we even delved further into Specific Carbohydrate Diet for a short time to allow her gut to heal, which worked wonders for her!

The GF/CF approach is said to work for 65% of people on the spectrum. Numbers for the Feingold approach are over 55% reporting success. SCD had high rates of success as well, but you can't easilly do all of these different diets at once. Best to start with one.

With the GF/CF, if your child LIVES off gluten and dairy and that is ALL they eat, that may be an indicator that they are reacting to it, as for those with difficulty processing the proteins react with addiction to those very foods that are not digesting properly. It's strange! I know I had a severe dairy allergy and I always craved dairy. It seemed like the only thing to help my stomach, even though it was truly the only thing causing me chronic acid reflux and ulcer. So, I can somewhat understand that.

The diet connection is my area of specialty in my work, so I had to chime in! Hope I didn't get too far off the original topic!
:)

[Brightsy]

I have a question about the GF/CF diet. My younger son (HFA, 7 yrs. old) seems like he might qualify as being addicted to such things. He pretty much eats cheese (mac-n-cheese esp., pizza and such), bread, loves milk and Yoo-hoo and go-gurts. He also eats peanut butter, occasionally chicken nuggets, and really likes lunchables (the little circular lunch meats are the only lunch meats he'll eat). Yet he has NO problems w/ digestion... no stomach aches, no constipation (although his stools can clog a toilet like you wouldn't believe). I've talked w/ his Dr.(s) about the diet (btw, as a military family my son has seen several Dr.s) and they all seem uncertain about any benefits he might get. When I say he has no GI issues, I mean none that we've seen. He's not gassy, he poops ok, he doesn't seem to have any problems of anykind with eating the foods. But he sure is picky, he won't eat fruits or veggies, at all, the only fruits we can get into him is from Juicy Juice or such.
I guess I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with this kind of thing.

[bookwormde]

Brightsy,

What you describe is what is a typical aspie diet, we did a thread last summer and the similarities were amazing; my child was a bit of an outlier because he is a vegetarian (boy does that make it fun).

One thing to remember is that changing a diet does nothing different for our children than it does for neurotypicals, it is just that with the challenges (stresses and anxiety) that our children face, the benefits have a greater impact.

If there is a GI issues with constipation (which is somewhat common due to the aspie diet) for a limited percentage of our children this helps greatly with limiting episodes.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

Brightsy, my youngest can still clog a toilet :sad2: and he's gfcf. Which indicates that he probably still has gi issues. I swear I've got that toilet plunger out every single day, I cannot believe that this is what my life has turned into. :scared:

Anyway, I was told by a well-respected ped that the gfcf wouldn't do us any good, because DS wasn't bloated/extended. I think she was looking more at celiac. I listened to her and I shouldn't have.

DS still eats the "autism diet" only it's the gfcf version. Rice noodles with fake margarine and fake parmesan. GF chicken nuggets. Tapioca bread. Fake cheese. Fake pizza. Chips and French fries. Juice and an occasionaly banana. Still can't get him to eat veggies. Some kids open up to more foods after going gfcf, mine did not. I was very concerned that he would not fall for the substitutes, but he is hypo-sensitive and I think it worked in our favor, as he wasn't picky about the textures.

I have found a new doc (who is not exactly a DAN but uses the same approach) so I am going to get some new input and see if we're missing something.

[DisDreaminMom]

OK, now that the thought of clogging toilets is out in the open, I have a hum dinger of a question for you.

DS is refusing to wipe his rear after #2. He did for a while, or at least tried, but lately has totally given up on the idea. It used to be he would ask for help when he was at home and try to wing it when he was at school (or maybe just try not to go). But he had an "accident" a couple of weeks ago where he was at cousin's house and was too embarrassed to ask for help, pulled pants up, and made a huge mess. Today I picked him up from school and could smell him. I am so sick of wiping this kid. He's 6, for Pete's sake. He always says, "I'm just a little boy. I'll wipe my rear when I'm 18!". I know he could do it if he tried and it's not like we haven't helped him or shown him repeatedly how to take care of things. He was a total bear to toilet train. He had the whole phobia turned into obsession with toilets. I guess I should be glad of no more diapers (though he does wear them at night because he's a heavy sleeper).

Any suggestions? I did try the pre-moistened wipes and he could have cared less.

About the GF /Casein free diets- DS has a bloated tummy. I read that most AS kids have one. He also has acne on his arms. Think this is worth a try? He never had stomach complaints and eats a very well balanced diet (veggie lover and eats a ton of fruit, but lives for dairy and pasta). Do you think most people should just try this as a matter of life with AS? Bookewormde?

Thanks for the info from the nutrician. I don't think it's OT if it affects behavior.

[sleepingbean]

Brightsy,

One thing to remember is that changing a diet does nothing different for our children than it does for neurotypicals, it is just that with the challenges (stresses and anxiety) that our children face, the benefits have a greater impact.

bookwormde

this is not exactly true, although I think I get what you are trying to say (or maybe I just misread it!). The dietary changes help with children on the spectrum for a host of reasons that are specific. Research and studies keep coming out with new insight on this, but just a few specifics: some ASD kids just can't detox in a normal way, some cannot process proteins in a typical/normal way, and some have issues with sulfation and phenols. There are factors playing out within the body that explain why there are such high number of success stories with dietary intervention, but the reasons vary from person to person based on what is going on in their particular system, what they have been exposed to, and so on.

There is an issue with the neurological component of autism, inflammation, and gut dysbiosis. Some good reads on this are the pre mentioned Nourishing Hope by Julie Matthews and another good one to understand the gut dysbiosis is Digestive Wellness by Elizabeth Lipski. And one that ties these together is Changing the Course of Autism by Jepson.

Of course, that is not to say that "typical" non spectrum kids don't have gut dysbiosis, candida, or leaky gut, as that is very common for anyone who has been on antibitiocs, or who does not eat a healthy diet (which I imagine would account for most kids, with the first of those, and many kids with the second).

[bookwormde]

I have read a lot of the works in this area and from a scientific point of view there are lots of correlations but not evidence of direct cause and effect from the base genetics of Autism. What does happen is that some the characteristics that manifest themselves, particularly because of sensory variations, create nutrition anomalies which cause issues which are sometimes helped by some of the dietary modifications. However this would provide the exact same benefit to a neurotypical with the same dietary or any other issue which is not directly linked.

As I said the big benefit is that the neurological changes that can be effected by diet produce much more beneficial and pronounced improvements since so much of the issue we deal with are anxiety based.

In the end it is just about what is beneficial for your child and changes in diet have been very helpful in some cases particularly with anxiety triggered behavioral issues.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

Okay, butt-wiping. :sad2: We usually do not have a problem, as due to the toilet-clogging nature of the event, there isn't much "residue" to be wiped. (I cannot believe I am discussing this) On the occasion when it is necessary, I am called in for duty at home. I do not know what they do at school, but he's never come home smelly. Since DS does tend to camp out on the toilet for extensive periods of time, the para should have a heads-up that he could need some help, maybe that's how they handle it.

Anyway, funny story. Usually I leave him alone in the bathroom but one day he had to go and I was in there brushing my teeth. So he goes. Then he stands up, turns around and looks in the toilet. He pulls 3 squares of toilet paper off the roll, crunches them in his hand, and drops them into the toilet unused. :scratchin And then pulled up his pants and flushed. I have noticed this several times since, that is his routine. I have no idea what he's doing.

So DisDreamin, I am no help. ;) The few times DS has actually tried to wipe his butt, he's made a big mess doing it and I've had to go in and fix it.

One thing we do have a problem with is the #1. He can't manipulate the snaps/buttons on pants. We have a few pairs of elastic-waist pants, but most of his pants are regular jeans that have the elastic size-button thingies so there's a little stretch but not much. When he goes pee, he does not unfasten his pants. He pulls at the waistband until he can get everything out where it needs to be, and goes. What this does, though, is that his aim is completely wacky. Fine if he's at a urinal, but a regular toilet he pees all over the seat and the upright seat lid and usually a little on the floor. What do you all do? Just do nothing but elastic-waist pants? They're harder to find as the kid gets older, except for sweat pants. The pants he has, he is able to completely pull them down if necessary, he wiggles and pulls, because of the elastic in the side he can do that, for #2, although he has a hard time getting them back up. He is sort of pudgy so his waist is about the same size as his hips.

[KirstenB]

Becky, I haven't been here in a few days, but I saw your thread about Richard, his friend and playdates. At the risk of further complicating your computer use matrix....I'd give him a once-a-week break from the ticket system only when his friend is over. Meaning, once a week, he and his friend can play on the Wii, computer, whatever. If his friend comes over 2-3 times a week, he has to use the tickets if they want to play computers.

I'd want to encourage the playdates, but not at the expense of your system. I'm thinking compromise.

[Brightsy]

(snipped for brevity)

One thing we do have a problem with is the #1. He can't manipulate the snaps/buttons on pants. We have a few pairs of elastic-waist pants, but most of his pants are regular jeans that have the elastic size-button thingies so there's a little stretch but not much. When he goes pee, he does not unfasten his pants. He pulls at the waistband until he can get everything out where it needs to be, and goes. What this does, though, is that his aim is completely wacky. Fine if he's at a urinal, but a regular toilet he pees all over the seat and the upright seat lid and usually a little on the floor. What do you all do? Just do nothing but elastic-waist pants? They're harder to find as the kid gets older, except for sweat pants. The pants he has, he is able to completely pull them down if necessary, he wiggles and pulls, because of the elastic in the side he can do that, for #2, although he has a hard time getting them back up. He is sort of pudgy so his waist is about the same size as his hips.

My lad has the same problem w/ #1. He, also, is a little pudgy. He wriggles his pants down and then usually needs help pulling them back up. He pees like a fire hose. After he's done I usually have to go in and do some wiping up. It gets EVERYWHERE! Now and then I'll not notice he's gone before me and have had a wet surprise when I sit down! Ugh! I've gotten into the habit of leaving the seat up.

[bookwormde]

KristenB

I think your point of some variation from the rule when it involves a “social event” might be well warranted, since the extra effort that these social events often involve are enhance by some structural encouragement. Of course every child is deferent so the structure must be adapted to the needs of the particular child at a particular time frame.

And yes, occasional “misfires” are an issue for us particularly during the night.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

Well we are having other issues with Mr. Play-Date Friend anyway. :sad2: I wish I were one of those moms who willingly takes on the troubled children of others and becomes some sort of mom role model, blah blah blah, but frankly I'm too tired for all that.

I think we are going to have to go with letting him play without coupons when he has company here, but only once a week and only for that after-school window of a couple hours. The only issue, which I'll need to work out, is that the two of them tend to "gang up" on Justin, so he doesn't get a turn. I think even if I let go of the coupon thing, I'll still need to put a time limitation in there. The downside is, of course, if they're on the Wii at least I know what they're doing. :rolleyes: The problem I'm having is that when company arrives, both children completely lose their minds. And yes, I've sent the company right back home. I think Mr. Play-Date has some issues of his own and honestly I've got my hands full enough. So it's more than just using coupons or not, although I do need to figure out what to do about that.

[KirstenB]

Okay, you guys are cracking me up with the bathroom issues. :lmao: I was actually going to ask how you got your ASD child to potty-train. Now I'm thinking it's overrated....we can live with diapers for a while longer.

Becky, sorry about Mr. Playdate Friend.:grouphug: You have enough drama without inviting other people's drama over! Our youngest is too young to worry about playdates much yet. We've definitely had lots of mostly good, but sometimes crazy playdates over the years with our older dd.

[DisDreaminMom]

Beck and Brightsy- I could have written your exact words. I have to get pants for school uniform from Sears- the Land's End brand. They are the only ones with an elastic waist that resemble actual uniform pants. I am half bald from pulling my hair out every time DS pees on the toilet seat or off the whole target. It's like nails on the chalk board.

And Becky- here's the deal- I don't know any mom's these days that aare in the mood for adopting an ill behaved child. It's hard enough having our own- I don't feel the need to complicate things with more...

[mechurchlady]

Make a game out of it like Potty Pot where each time he cleanly makes it in the pot he gets a reward such as a poker chip in a pot. When he has had 10 stars he gets one treat or whatever. Near misses like hitting the toilet seat is a worth a third of what a potty pot token iw worth. You chould even do three tokens for a bullseye, 2 for a dribble and 1 for on the seat but in the pot. Hit the floor and he gets nothing.

Question of the day for those NTs out there?.
Mom and dad are left handed so I am a leftie. Mom is a confused leftie, dad was a beat into rightie and I am a confused ambidextrous. I was sitting in the restaurant and was looking at the set up. Here is my question for the day to stump the NTs out there.

Whe do we have to have the cup on the right and silverware backwards? Why should the spoon and drink glass be on the right if I am left handed as it means changing hands for the spoon and leaning over the plate to get stuff.

Hugs and chocolates and I will leve the coffee maker on for Becky.
:cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

[Minnie M6]

Aim problems here too. ;)
And, DS always denies getting the seat wet :rolleyes: even if I go into the bathroom directly after him.
He also isn't dry at night. It's rough for him, especially during the rare sleepover.
As far as pants go, DS almost always wears track pants/ sweatpants. He has jeans but hates pants with buttons so he always opts for comfort.

[BeckyScott]

mechurchlady, it's because the righties made all the rules. :thumbsup2 :rotfl2: This is just a guess, but the whole place setting thing has been around for ages, at least a century and probably more, and you know it used to be that lefties were forced into righties. So it was all designed for righties, much the same as pants zippers and spiral notebooks.

Kirsten, DS potty-trained at 4 (which for autism ain't bad) but he did it at preschool long before he'd do it at home. :sad2: However, the preschool had one para whose sole purpose was taking kids to the bathroom. They called her "the potty whisperer". So he was getting taken to the bathroom once an hour, no matter what. It's harder to do that at home. Then the preschool teacher told me it was okay to start sending him in real undies and not pull-ups, and I was like "whaaat?" because he certainly wasn't potty-trained at home. Because of that, I felt comfortable going cold-turkey with him, I knew that he could do it if he wanted. At night, it just happened that one night he had ran out of pull-ups and it was pretty late so we were looking at quite a drive to buy more. So I stuck a bunch of towels on the bed and kept my fingers crossed, he was dry that night so we just kept going. He had a couple accidents the first week or two, but we decided to keep trying. However (caveat), he was never a poop-smearer or anything like that, he was like many kids in that he'd just be too busy playing to take the time out. And he is under-sensitive so it wasn't a matter of the pants being wet, it was getting him to recognize the urge.

(the short answer to your question: someone else potty-trained him for me, LOL, that's what happened) :lmao:

However, I do think that I contributed to the bad aim situation. I was so happy he was using the toilet at all, that I didn't pursue the aim problem. I figured it would work itself out. Four years later, no such luck. So when you do decide to try, work on the aim at the same time.

[mechurchlady]

:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
Coffee for Becky

I mentioned that to show how I as a neurovariant type person just cannot understand some things in life.Tie the hand down was one method and my dad was a beat right that is beaten and hand tied down type of training to be right handed. He had chalk teeth and issues with green beans that gagged him so they served him the same cold green beans until he ate them all. Mom comes from the caning days of public school when they rapped your knuckles for being bad.

I think you need to either lay something on your kid like ooh that is disgusting, rewards, or personal hygiene. If he wants to be normal and sees himself as an outcast that would work. Other kids might hit the mark if they understand that it is hard on mom or is disgusting. Others might just need some gold stars, candy or quarters to get them to aim right. Make a game of it like putting out the fire or shoot and score. Lots of ways but which is right. I know the answer and may not tell.:lmao: :scratchin

:grouphug: :cheer2: :wave2: pixiedust: :coffee: :beach: :grouphug: pixiedust:

The answer is:


The method for hitting the mark is: Which ever one is the last one you try.:lmao: :rotfl2: :rotfl:

[DisDreaminMom]

Mechurchlady,

DH and were just talking about handed-ness. last night. I'm a leftie. Dh is naturally a leftie, but he's from Denmark and he's old enough that they made him write with his right hand. he is really ambidextrous in everything else. DD is a natural rightie and DS has a very hard time writing anything and they trained him to write with right hand, but he is very ambidextrous. He will eat an entire meal with utensils in BOTH hands, eating a bite from one and then the other and not spilling a thing.

I have photos of him as a five year old with two pens, one in each hand, drawing a picture with both pens at the same time. His picture was split down the middle-but both pens moved in unison and made each "half" of the entire drawing. It was amazing. He stopped doing it recently, but I've never seen anything like it before.

Having lived as a leftie- yes it's stupid that the place settings are that way. And how many drinks have I knocked over in my life reaching across my plate for my cup??? Ask my mother-she always ended up with them in her lap at restaurant meals. I always sit on the outside in booths because I hate knocking elbows.

If I had a bunch of $, I would design a line of ASD clothes for children with texture/fixture issues. Soft cotton or manly silk prints with optional polarfleece lining, no tags ever, no tight elastic, lots of big pockets, and no buttons. And then I'm make matching adult clothes because I'd want to dress this way, too!!!:scratchin

[bookwormde]

Being innately non discriminatory about left or right seems to be one of the most common characteristics. Give me a book upside down or even in a mirror it looks the same to me as the standard way. I have been trained to be right handed but any new skill I can initially do equally well with either my right or left hand. I have never innately known left from right AS DS9 is the same way.

My guess is somehow it is related to the nondiscriminatory wiring but that direct a link between the intellectual world and the physical world is interesting.

bookwormde

[sleepingbean]

Mechurchlady,


If I had a bunch of $, I would design a line of ASD clothes for children with texture/fixture issues. Soft cotton or manly silk prints with optional polarfleece lining, no tags ever, no tight elastic, lots of big pockets, and no buttons. And then I'm make matching adult clothes because I'd want to dress this way, too!!!:scratchin

and seamless socks too, while you're at it! That is really a great idea!
When Bean was a baby, I would get so irritated that I could rarely find 100% cotton clothes without embroideries that were rough on the back side or other things that would irritate her skin (she would break out in rashes at the least irritation due to a bizarre birthmark that was a collection of mast cells, which released histamine response when rubbed/irritated).

I ended up buying only very pricey organic cotton natural stuff or I could find things sometimes through Gap or Carters. It was surprisingly difficult! And then to not have the zippers where they would irritate the chin, velcro where it would irritate the skin and so on.
And that is just the BABY stage...once they get old enough to learn that they hate seams, tags, buttons...then the fun starts!

I think a clothing line like that would be a hit among many groups of people, for the sensory issues alone! Love the idea!

[BeckyScott]

Yes, bless the Tagless Tshirt! :cheer2:

I will have to chew that one over. I sew, my degree is in costume design. Because DS is undersensitive, we haven't had issue with it so much. There are certain things he is picky about (for example, must have fingerless gloves) but in general he'll wear whatever he is handed. But good heavens, some tags even bother me!, sometimes I swear they find the scratchiest cardboard fabric to make them from.

It would also be good to Garanimal the line so that there is guidance when picking out combinations.

And of course the cobbler's children go barefoot. I very seldom make clothes for them. Partly because they're boys, so their needs are pretty basic. And mostly because it's almost impossible to duplicate some things like jeans without them looking odd and home-made.

On the behavior front, we've almost made it thru the second week. Little Mr. Play-Date came over Wednesday and once again all heck broke loose. Grrr! Long story. But I think his appearance is a big negative factor in the cooperation I get at home, and also in the kids behavior for the rest of the day. I'm not sure exactly how to handle it. And on top of that, when I picked the kids up from school yesterday, I personally witnessed a girl handing her phone number to oldest DS. :scared: Fortunately he's not sure what to do with it. Help!

[DisDreaminMom]

Oh, Miss Becky! The Number from the Opposite Sex!!!:scared: It's like Jasmine and Aladdin, baby- A whole new world! At least he's not sad about NOT getting girl's numbers, so there is an upside.

Hey, with a little motivation, we could make a heck of a clothing line. Anyone sitting on a few million bucks that wants to go partners with Becky and me? How cool would that be? I'm with you on the Garanimals concept, too. Let's make everything from a season match in some way or another, like at Talbotts. Think of as Business Casual for the ASD set (and the ones that love them). I'm all for the seamless socks. My mother loves to knit and she makes DS (and me) these gorgeous Alpaca sweaters. Wool is the most horrible thing to wear for me and my DS thinks so, too. But anything Alpaca is wonderful- it's fibers, not a bunch of sticky thorns in my neck and sides. If you haven't tried Alpaca stuff, then make an effort to. It'll change your life. I wish i could get her to make me socks. I only wear LL Bean polar fleece socks for the seamless nature of them and because they don't itch.

Why do other kids make our kids so nuts. My NT DD has some friends that I just detest having around. They make DD act like such a brat. I can't imagine letting my kids act the way these do. And their table manners are atrocious. A few of kids friends make my stomach turn the way they eat- and talk back. A good friend of mine said that the way your kids act at an early age is how they will act as teenagers. Dear Lord, let me not have nasty, gross kids. Life is just too short.

DS sat with his pugs all afternoon watching a movie. He was so sweet to them. He kept kissing his finger and lightly touching Suzie's nose. It was so cute. Progress is made...Hardliner today for a peaceful tomorrow::cop:

[C&G'sMama]

I love you guys. You all get it. DS can't do buttons so he wears the pull on pants. He's only 5 but he wears a size 7X or 8. He's definitely a husky. Someone else mentioned having a kid who's "undersensitive" to touch. So is DS and one of the things is he never knows when he's full so he'll just keep eating. So we are trying to "train" him now to know he has to stop before he's full. (As a pooh sized person myself (of course I think I'm more Ursula than Pooh), I'm very sensitive to the weight thing).

I'll buy clothes from you. Once he gets past size 8 I think sweat pants will be our only option. He doesn't like jeans and they can't wear them to school (but they can wear sweats (the school is big on fitness)).

[mechurchlady]

I am wearing my favourite rags tonight and will buy from you also, lol. It is a sof blue chenille shirt with a big hole and major bald spots. The top underneath lined and smooth, dark blue and the decorative eyelets at the bottom is tattered. I just love that and who knows why. Comfortable is the key word.

I want 5 blue pants and tops sets please. Will donate $5 as again I was feeding Calvin. Will trade one Calvin for 76 of your kids, lol.:lmao:

Big hugs and chocolates
pixiedust: :coffee: :wave2: :cheer2: :grouphug: pixiedust:

[C&G'sMama]

Why do other kids make our kids so nuts. My NT DD has some friends that I just detest having around. They make DD act like such a brat. I can't imagine letting my kids act the way these do. And their table manners are atrocious. A few of kids friends make my stomach turn the way they eat- and talk back. A good friend of mine said that the way your kids act at an early age is how they will act as teenagers. Dear Lord, let me not have nasty, gross kids. Life is just too short.


Our 8yo DD is NT and yes the other kids make us nuts. She's pretty good though. She stands up for herself. Once in awhile she tries to act out but she's learned it's not worth it. No screen time (and really she's so senstive all you have to do is tell her how disappointed you are in her and she cries). She has one friend that we feel is a true friend. Her mom feels the same way about DD. The other kids aren't bad kids per se but they play the mind games (at 8). We tell her to be a leader. You know most of the kids come around because they've realized she just doesn't care.

As for "the boy". I pray a lot. Right now he's oblivious to what other kids think. We have him in various activities at different places so hopefully he'll always have somewhere to go. We are thinking of enrolling him in a class at a local facility that has peer groups for ASD kids. They also have peer groups for siblings of ASD kids.

[BeckyScott]

C&G's, I have wondered sometimes if that's what is happening to both my boys. They will eat non-stop if I let them, and neither one of them are starving or anything. They've both been wearing Husky for years now. We have an ongoing joke at home, youngest DS will come ask me for a snack and I will say "you don't look like you're starving". And he'll pull the front of his shirt up and suck in his stomach. :lmao: Yeah, even sucking it in he still doesn't look starving.

It is more problematic with oldest DS because his "lack of empathy", his biggest issue, means for some reason he does not think about others when eating all our food. For example, there will be three of us at home for dinner. Let's say I'm cooking hot dogs, and I only have 3 left, which should work. I'll cook all 3 of them, then tell the kids that dinner is ready. Oldest DS will come in and grab 2 hot dogs. "You can only have one hot dog." "But I want two!" "But there are 3 of us, and 3 hot dogs. If you have two, then one of us doesn't get one." And then he'll ask youngest DS if he wants his hot dog, which of course he does. But it truly does not occur to him to consider the big picture, and variations on the theme happen pretty often. The combination of him not thinking about anyone else, and eating when he's not hungry, means that food will disappear quickly around here if I'm not vigilant. I don't know how many times I've told him "you're not hungry, you're bored. Find something to do." He does think he's fat, which I've never told him, he doesn't like anyone to see him without a shirt on. Classic struggle, he thinks he's fat but he will eat as many cookies as he can get his hands on.

[DisDreaminMom]

How odd, yet another post that I could have written myself. DS is constantly hungry. Like tapeworm hungry. And the kid drinks liquid like he's on fire. He's not obese, but he's husky. He thinks he's fat, too, but will sob when told that he's already had enough to eat. I am trying to time meals better, and constant grazing seems to do best for him. He isn't ever hungry enough to eat a giant meal, but will eat six cheese sticks in an hour.

Bookworme, when DS was a baby, he would take the refrigerator magnets and arrange them backwards, Z through A on the floor. I didn't realize he had taught himself the alphabet. The letters were just flipped around and the end was the beginning. He still has issues with wanting read stuff "hebrew" style (from the right). He was flipping letters and numbers all the time, but it's gotten a little better this year. He can look at a map that is upside down or look at it through the wrong side and still identify the continents and countries that he likes. He'll be eating food and stop and shout, "Look, my potato chip is Africa!" and darn it, if I turn it around and flip it upside down, it sure is...Never a dull moment.

[C&G'sMama]

C&G's, I have wondered sometimes if that's what is happening to both my boys. They will eat non-stop if I let them, and neither one of them are starving or anything. They've both been wearing Husky for years now. We have an ongoing joke at home, youngest DS will come ask me for a snack and I will say "you don't look like you're starving". And he'll pull the front of his shirt up and suck in his stomach. :lmao: Yeah, even sucking it in he still doesn't look starving.

It is more problematic with oldest DS because his "lack of empathy", his biggest issue, means for some reason he does not think about others when eating all our food. For example, there will be three of us at home for dinner. Let's say I'm cooking hot dogs, and I only have 3 left, which should work. I'll cook all 3 of them, then tell the kids that dinner is ready. Oldest DS will come in and grab 2 hot dogs. "You can only have one hot dog." "But I want two!" "But there are 3 of us, and 3 hot dogs. If you have two, then one of us doesn't get one." And then he'll ask youngest DS if he wants his hot dog, which of course he does. But it truly does not occur to him to consider the big picture, and variations on the theme happen pretty often. The combination of him not thinking about anyone else, and eating when he's not hungry, means that food will disappear quickly around here if I'm not vigilant. I don't know how many times I've told him "you're not hungry, you're bored. Find something to do." He does think he's fat, which I've never told him, he doesn't like anyone to see him without a shirt on. Classic struggle, he thinks he's fat but he will eat as many cookies as he can get his hands on.

We don't tell the kids they'll get fat either. We just say it's unhealthy. "Have some carrots" etc. "It's bedtime have a glass of ice water, it's good for your tissues, hydrates your body" (DS likes scientific terms). For DS we've realized and the Developmental pediatrician confirmed that he just doesn't know when he's full. This is the same kid that can fall of a piece of playground equipment from a few feet off the ground and not feel any pain(but try to take a splinter out of his foot and you'd think you were killing him).
He also walks around with his underwear hanging out and his heiny showing half the time because he doesn't know his pants aren't pulled up:rolleyes1 Hopefully as he gets older he'll just remember to check once in awhile.

[DisDreaminMom]

G & C's mama, are you sure you don't have my DS's long lost twin? I swear he's not trying to emulate a gansta rapper with is undies showing. I:lmao: t's just that he never thinks to pull his pants all the way up (unless of course they are more than 3 month old pants, and by then they are too small!)

[mechurchlady]

Mom has never been able to write a check except about twice in the past 40+ years and she very carefully copied an existing check. Forget about mail order or phone orders.

Bleary eyed yesterday I was informed there was a box of about 20 criss-cross puzzle books on her bed. Then she told me that she had used her credit card to order them.

Um, should I be elated that she ordered something she wanted or shocked and on the floor as we only have right now about $100 for the end of the month stuff like bread, salads, and eating out if I get sick. I was so proud of her and hid my fear and wonderings as to what was in the checking book.

pirate: Be ye warned this is just the beginning and you think they are bad at age 6 or 12 then wait until they are old men, lol. As for potato chips shaped like continents my mom is that way and she can look at stuff and see things I never see. Worst is that those findings are of great importance as you probably noticed.

[C&G'sMama]

Speaking of stuffing..
I looked at DS earlier this evening and we was on all fours and his cheeks were full. He had stuffed grapes in his mouth as he apparently was a squirrel storing food for the winter. At least it wasn't Hershey's Kisses...

ooo I have some Hershey's kisses in the car. Maybe I'll go get them once the kids are settled down...

[DisDreaminMom]

I like the squirrel thing. My DS used to eat so much dog food (because he was a dog!) when he was little that I switched to Lamb and Rice Premium food because I didn't want him to get Mad Cow Disease. :rotfl2: Thankfully he grew out of that phase. Our kids have such vivid imaginations...

[C&G'sMama]

I like the squirrel thing. My DS used to eat so much dog food (because he was a dog!) when he was little that I switched to Lamb and Rice Premium food because I didn't want him to get Mad Cow Disease. :rotfl2: Thankfully he grew out of that phase. Our kids have such vivid imaginations...
Maybe they are twins separated at birth - Do you want him back?:rotfl:

Anyway..., if I remember correctly your DS is the one that is going to live in Paris in house with a lot of rooms and cats? Our DS announced he was going to have a house and he wants to be a dad but he doesn't know where to buy a baby. He's very concerned about that:rotfl2:


Rather getting into a 3 month discussion on why you can't buy babies and how he would get one if he can't buy one, we just left that one alone for now.:rolleyes2

[mechurchlady]

I now have one hour where I set with mom and watch Law & Order with her at midnight. Tonight was the end of a long day of meltdowns and hissy fits.

I had speech therapy as a kid but I pulled the wool ever their eyes according to mom. My day was from Indiana and had dentures. Soft almost southern speech. Mom and her mother speak very fast like mom's mother who was Mexican. Thus is why I speak funny. There you have the rocket science explanation as to why I have speech problems.

It does not matter that I have no indoor voice and even was tested for hearing problems which came up negative. It does not matter that I am adaptable and learned to be right and left handed at an early age. I even read somewhere that a certain signature feature was good like lucky so I adapted that as well. It does not matter that I live with Mom and her Mother the first 5 years of my life. The first 5 years were with hispanics so you think by age 5 I would speak fast like them and have good patterning after them.

SCREAMING FIT :badpc: :badpc: :badpc: :badpc:
Who in their right mind would have bought that hog poop. I speak funny because after 5 years Dad move in with mom and that affected my speech or maybe I inherited a jumbled speech pattern from them.

Opinions are welcome but only if you bring dole whips and chocolates. Just kidding and I love to hear anything form people.

As for pulling the wool over their eyes, I took remedial reading in junior high school despite my intelligence and great reading abilities.:rotfl: :rotfl2: :lmao:
pixiedust: :grouphug:

[DisDreaminMom]

C & G's Mama, thanks, but I think our "twins" will shine more if left separated. My sanity decrees such things. That is a touchy subject these days- where to buy a baby. Maybe he should ask Madonna.

Last night, we were eating dinner and DH's basketball game was about to come on. I'm trying to get DS into sports, so I said, "Who is going to watch the game with Daddy?!" And DS looks at me and says, "WHY?":rotfl2:

Then the topic turned somehow to how DS thought it was scary being a baby in my stomach. "I was glad when I got out of there.", he said. WTH? Then I told him he cooked in there for 9 months, like a bun in the oven just with a super long bake time, and he said, "No wonder I was so freaked out!" :lmao:

That kid cracks me up. Thank God we live on a farm and DH's job is breeding and foaling out horses. We have more of a laboratory model for learning the birds and the bees. DH's office is the breeding lab overlooking the breeding shed, so there are diagrams and live "demonstrations" going on all the time, if you get my drift. DD got in trouble in Pre-K at church for describing to all her friends what placentas are. :scared: But I got a nice note from her Kindergarten teacher that she was the one who knew the proper name for a male pig, so there is a silver lining.

We are snowed-iced in here in KY. At any moment I know we'll lose power. Over 300K in our state are out, so you folks keep warm and stay safe. This is why I moved to FL four years ago and why I'm sad we moved back to KY last year. Not fun.:sad:

[BeckyScott]

Awww, he doesn't want to buy a baby. The initial cost is bad enough, but the maintenance, whoa :scared:. You know, we'd all be freakin' rich if it wasn't for these little beasties in our houses, with their $3/bag Tinky noodles and $80 iCoasters and probably $400 worth of Pixar DVDs. Child tax credit, my butt, that's not even close to what they cost.... :lmao:

Slightly :offtopic: but a couple weeks ago a local chiro spoke at the autism play group, and he sounded very DAN-ish. Another mom & I asked him if he'd gone to the DAN conference (he isn't listed on their website) and that he really needed to go to it 'cause he sounded just like one of the. I took DS to see him yesterday and he's decided to go to the DAN conference this spring. So we'll have a local DAN! No more 2 hour drives! hoo hoo!

Back on topic. I am having trouble (and this isn't a new problem) with the kids just not liking school. Last week youngest DS had a very bad week, not motivated in the least, didn't get work done, needed constant prodding and then only produced the minimum necessary. It's beyond bribing or punishing. I can do that. But they genuinely don't like school. It makes me sad, and I don't know what to do to help. Bribing them isn't effective, as they both dislike school so much that they don't even care about a reward. And even then... I don't necessarily wanting them to be good students just to get an extra buck, I want them to like learning. And there are parts of it they do like, but not much.

I am hoping as they get older and have more input as to what classes they choose, that it will get better. But really even in high school and college you still have to take core classes.

I don't know if this is typical, or if it's part of the umbrella and needs to be handled differently, or if there's really nothing I can do. If it's just that neither child is "another brick in the wall" ;) and as such, they're never going to be really happy in that whole traditional way of education. Or if they've both decided they just don't care, period, and I need to step in and get hard-core with it.

[DisDreaminMom]

Becky- hate to tell you but the whole "hate doing something I'm not interested in" thing will not go away. I failed half my classes and had A's in the others. it wasn't until I got to college that I had a decent grade point average. I was constantly hauled into the guidance counselor's office. If I ever hear someone tell me about not living up to my potential, I'll hurt somebody. It's just so hard to rationalize WHY they NEED to focus and try in classes they don't like or have no interest in. I don't know the answer.

I'll tell you what I told my DD when she was having major issues with PE. I said, "You may hate it. You may curse them under your breath. You may think it's the stupidest thing in the world. But you will smile and act like you are having fun, and just maybe one day you will. The more you hate it, the more I want you to pretend you enjoy it".

That was two years ago. She is not totally cured, but she doesn't complain to me anymore and now has a good grade in PE and occasionally tells me she has a good time. Oh, and it worked for math, too. That was a better success.

Tell them that they can't get to study the "good stuff" if they don't have the grades for the schools they want to get into. And honestly, if your kids seem like they will be interested in electricity more than a Liberal Arts degree or PhD then why worry? They'll make more money in the skilled trades professions now anyway. I wish I had become a mechanic. I'd be making a killing.

But no, I bought a couple of babies and now have buyers remorse. They are like a boat. :rotfl2: It's not the initial investment, but the upkeep will kill you!

[DisDreaminMom]

oh, and I was reading your post super fast, and I for a moment thought you were telling us about a Danish chiropractor. :lmao:

Glad you found someone to help, right before gas prices go sky high again...

[mechurchlady]

I can drive 40 miles for california rolls but cannot get myself to go to the post office or call someone. Resistance is futile. For me yelling and loss of our home cannot get me moving. Maybe bookworm can help you.

[bookwormde]

The whole education system is very much the antithesis of how we learn; learning a little about everything is just not out “style”, we want everything about something(s).

Remember motivation is about interest and logic with the distortion of the lack of social immediacy.

bookwormde

[C&G'sMama]

We have a friend with a son in his mid-30's. He was diagnosed with Asperger's in his early 20s. We just found out about this over Christmas. They struggled with him all through junior high and high school. He is now an attorney and married with 2 kids. His advice to us "Homeschool". We have thought about it for both of our children. We take it one day at a time. I guess DS was perservating at school today. He does it at home all the time but I guess this was the first time he got this "bad" at school. Apparently they had animal crackers if they were on "green" all day and a couple of kids weren't. So DS is analyzing why the kids, who were already crying, didn't get crackers.

And to BookWormde's comment about the school not being made for them. He's right. The schools try to fit everyone in one category. I found myself in the middle of a discussion on the family board about kids starting kindergarten late and trying to say just because the government says "5" doesn't make it right. Well I feel the same way about the structure of our schools. Not every child learns in the same manner. I myself am a visual learner. I can't handle straight lectures without handouts. It just doesn't sink in for me.

If you are fortunate to live somewhere with lots of choices you may be okay. We don't know what we will do with DS when we get to that point, but we always keep home schooling as an option.

[BeckyScott]

Thanks for the input on that.

I was just thinking about oldest DS. On the Aspie screening, there was one question that was something like "doesn't look happy when complimented" or "doesn't show emotion when an adult tells him he's done good", something like that. And his teacher had marked that as an "all the time". Whenever he gets a really good grade on a worksheet or test it goes right on our fridge. But he doesn't show them to me, they're just shoved in the backpack with everything else.

Last spring in art class they had a contest. They made cars out of cardboard and glue, like a make-your-own Boy Scout soapbox derby, they spent quite a while making them in class and then had a big race day. Not surprisingly, DS was one of the few that mastered making an axle out of cardboard, and he won every race, out of all the kids in his grade level. And there was a newspaper reporter there (slow news day?) and he ended up on the front page. Like his own little 15 minutes of fame. You woulda thought he'd won the Nobel Peace Prize, the way I acted. He didn't seem to think winning the races was a big deal, the newspaper however did get him pretty excited.

This year I was asking him about art class, and he was all blase about it, whatever, it was okay I guess but {{shrug}}. I was totally totally confused.

[DisDreaminMom]

Becky, dear, why would you be confused? If he won something that went along with his special interest, he'd never let it go! DS is great at spelling and aces tests. But he could care less. Now, if he won the "Best drawing of Paris with a poodle" contest- that's all we would hear about.

He made the car axel because it was a challenge, it was a puzzle, and it was required. (and it's wheels!!!) But he knows he's not going to get to spend the entire year in art class making cardboard car parts. The rest of art class is doing stupid "art" exercises and truth be told, unless you are really into it, drawing the bowl of fruit with pencil dots is one sure way to make me want to hurt myself. So he was having fun and met success making an auto part and using his product. That's no where near the same category as "art".

I have been told that homeschooling is the best for those that have the extreme aversion towards mandatory classes. Depending on how gifted they are, and you as a teacher-and the ability to be running around with them all day and not have any other job-AND keep them challenged enough-(whew!)- then this could be an ideal solution. Get them to test out on the basics of the subjects they don't like and then let them really concentrate on the ones they do.

I would totally pay for this type of school by the way. Montessori in upper and middle school is done on this concept, by the way. More colleges are noticing how well these kids do compared to "regular" school pupils.

Jack of all trades, Master of none. Amen, sister.

[DisDreaminMom]

We are on our 4th snow day. Anyone want to trade with me? Anyhow, DD's little friend came over a few minutes ago (her parents have NO backup plan for off days- how do people function?). I am not a huge fan of this girl, but I do like her parents and she gets along well with DD. DS is upstairs with them now "playing". His version of playing involves screaming at the top of his lungs. I hope the girls don't kill him. I told DD that she needed to let him play for a while, and as long as they all play with animal toys, it's OK. But DS never gets that he needs to calm the heck down. It's just exhausting for me to have a day like this. And I stayed up too late watching TV and I just want to take a nap, not play referee. But I'm hiding here in the office, pretending not to care...

Mechurchlady- I would drive 40 miles for california rolls. Don't feel bad. It's OK.

[mechurchlady]

They were very good but set on me and I should have bought something to drink besides the half can of soda in the car. Sure will trade you any day. AT least you can still set on the kid. Try having an 83 year old 200+ pound woman demanding to know what is for dinner. She loved the special dinner of turnkey with apricot jelly, mashed taters done my way, and harvest veggie medley that I love if it is cold. I do not do hot veggies except corn, taters, peas and soups. I swallow them if force and can do cabbage but yuk.

I would feed the screamer some peanut butter, the gooey kind, lol. Knowing my luck he would swallow it whole. I need to go to sleep now. Try to be good while I sleep. We need a california roll smiley. :rotfl:
:grouphug: :cheer2: :coffee: pixiedust:

Oh and I can go to Disneyland as the have a Southern California payment plan and take Calvin. He is not Disney or travel smart. Dude plans a cruise and thinks he is getting one meal a day.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I got my E Drive back mysteriously. Next time I will buy a female E Drive.:badpc:

[BeckyScott]

I can tell you, absolutely, positively, there is no way I could homeschool. I would move to another school district, another state, before I'd home school.

And I work in education. :rolleyes: But not with kids, and not with special needs kids.

I just don't have it in me. There's not enough anxiety meds in the state to get me to homeschool. More power to those that do, I have a great amount of respect for them, I wish I had it in me. Now way, no how. I can barely make it through a half hour of homework time without wanting to scream. No way I could do it all day every day.

I have a great great respect for paras and SpEd teachers who can do it all day. I don't know how many times I have **almost** put in an app to be a sub or a para and I just could not bring myself to do it. I would be insane.

I suppose if it got bad enough, or there was no choice at all, I do have the skill set, but it would have to be pretty extremely severe circumstances. Plus, it requires a level of organization that would be challenging for me, to put it lightly. If you saw my "filing system" :rolleyes: oh my. I also have a feeling that, considering the amount of behavior issues we already have, that the kids would think they were getting off the hook if they were homeschooled, and that is something we'd have to really work at getting past before much could be accomplished.

{{Beckys' rant is over}} :thumbsup2

[C&G'sMama]

I can tell you, absolutely, positively, there is no way I could homeschool. I would move to another school district, another state, before I'd home school.

And I work in education. :rolleyes: But not with kids, and not with special needs kids.

I just don't have it in me. There's not enough anxiety meds in the state to get me to homeschool.

I'm soooorrrry! I didn't mean to cause agida. Okay I have to rephrase. When I say "We" have considered homeschooling. "We" means DP. She is more than willing to do it and I'm more than willing to support her in it. She would be very good at it.

There is a reason DP is a SAHM and not me. Mama (that's me) doesn't have a lot of patience. We have our strengths. I will shovel, I will take the kids sledding in 0 degree weahther and I will pick up the dog poop, but please don't make me stay home with them for days on end. I don't think they make enough prozac for that. :rotfl2:

We will take it a year at a time. When our friend advised home schooling it was after DP had said we had considered it. We have also considered it for our NT daughter for a variety of reasons. We also live in an area that has a large home school population both religious and non-religious based. And there are tons of activities from bowling and ice skating to chess clubs and science clubs.

So I'm sorry.... If I give hugs and chocolates (to quote Church Lady) will you forgive me?:flower3:

[C&G'sMama]

Anyone have any experience with something that works with perseverating? DS is getting worse both at home and at school. He is in OT, PT and speech at school. In addition we have him once a week at a speech center at one of the local colleges where they work on pragmatic speech. We don't know what to do about the perseverating. We don't know if it's diet related or stress related (I have been working long hours since before Christmas so he doesn't see me as much). Anyone have any useful strategies or gone to therapist. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[bookwormde]

If you can give a little more specific information as to the type and nature of the preseveration (verbal, movements, interest etc) it would be helpful. In general it can be as stress mechanism (reaction or comfort), time management structure, or focus based. Doing a good analysis of the environment and timing is often helpful.


bookwormde

[C&G'sMama]

If you can give a little more specific information as to the type and nature of the preseveration (verbal, movements, interest etc) it would be helpful. In general it can be as stress mechanism (reaction or comfort), time management structure, or focus based. Doing a good analysis of the environment and timing is often helpful.


bookwormde

Thank you so much for any suggestions you might have. We talk to the peditricians but it is alsonice to talk to other parents and those that have been there themselves.

It's verbal. At school yesterday he couldn't get off the topic of why 2 of the children in his class couldn't have animal crackers. It was because they were "off green". He asked everyone to raise their hands if they thought it wasn't fair. (several times). Apparently he did the same thing after Barack Obama won the election. "Raise your hand if you're happy Barack Obama won the election".(several times) At home, the other day we spent 5 hours on "not talking about his bad dream the night before" "mama, I shouldn't talk about my bad dream beacause I already told you" "It's okay to talk about it honey but not over and over". "Well, I shouldn't talk about it anymore should I?". This went on before we left the house, while we were sledding and while we were out for hot chocolate and when we got home".

It's all stuff like that. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have been working quite a bit lately. When I am home, like I was Saturday, I try to spend time with the kids. The working thing should end within the next couple of weeks, though it will happen again, it's cyclical.

It very well could be stress.

[mechurchlady]

[QUOTE=C&G'sMama;29975030
If I give hugs and chocolates (to quote Church Lady) will you forgive me?:flower3:[/QUOTE]
You forgot one important thing when dealing with Becky.
:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
:coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
:coffee: :coffee:
:coffee:
She needs lots of coffee to get started in the morning.
Big hugs and chocolates and coffee.

Perservate wow a big word out of my grasp. Lawyer asked me if I ws "technical" and I stared dumbfounded, um, what does that mean. For me it is a lot to do with stress. To cope I can cry, chew, bite, or worst is the nonphysical shut downs where I cannot do something.

[bookwormde]

Since it sounds like it is “subject oriented” for the most part, I would not be overly concerned. I know it can be “socially difficult” but it sound like it is just items which he is concerned about or interested in and is trying to figure out. The most practical way to work through this situation is to provide as much “data” or rational insight as practical, so he may work through his evaluation. I view this as Aspie skill building, while as a child he is not fully intellectually developed and lacks much of the overall life perspective; he is working trough the issue and is trying to come up with a solution. The reason he is asking these question and reviewing the information over and over is that he does not have enough “data” to come up with a purely logic based answer. With the overlay of “heightened sense of justice” (cookie issue), trying to figure out the logic of social issues or in the case trying to process some innocent comment about dreams which he took literally in light of a “bad dream”.

I find taking the time to get my son to review all the information he has on the subject and following the “logic” trail and trying to fill in “data” an clearing up any misconceptions often hastens resolution. With the dream you have a bit of a paradox since the “rule” he has adopted from some comment or other source (not talking about the bad dream) must be changed before he can move forward.

The good news is that this does not seem anxiety induced, although it can be anxiety generating when the evaluation process can’t to move forward from lack if input and logical guidance.

Remember that what you are seeing is the immature version of what from a societal contribution perspective is the greatest gift the spectrum individuals have to offer.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

:coffee: C&G, of course you are forgiven.

[koolaidmoms]

Since it sounds like it is “subject oriented” for the most part, I would not be overly concerned. I know it can be “socially difficult” but it sound like it is just items which he is concerned about or interested in and is trying to figure out. The most practical way to work through this situation is to provide as much “data” or rational insight as practical, so he may work through his evaluation. I view this as Aspie skill building, while as a child he is not fully intellectually developed and lacks much of the overall life perspective; he is working trough the issue and is trying to come up with a solution. The reason he is asking these question and reviewing the information over and over is that he does not have enough “data” to come up with a purely logic based answer. With the overlay of “heightened sense of justice” (cookie issue), trying to figure out the logic of social issues or in the case trying to process some innocent comment about dreams which he took literally in light of a “bad dream”.

I find taking the time to get my son to review all the information he has on the subject and following the “logic” trail and trying to fill in “data” an clearing up any misconceptions often hastens resolution. With the dream you have a bit of a paradox since the “rule” he has adopted from some comment or other source (not talking about the bad dream) must be changed before he can move forward.

The good news is that this does not seem anxiety induced, although it can be anxiety generating when the evaluation process can’t to move forward from lack if input and logical guidance.

Remember that what you are seeing is the immature version of what from a societal contribution perspective is the greatest gift the spectrum individuals have to offer.

bookwormde

Thank you for the understanding.

I guess Mommy needs to learn some more patience. I try very hard to sit and explain everything to him but when he is going on the third hour of why he can no longer use a marker he accidently dropped on the floor I want to sit and cry.

Usually it goes something like:

No it is not broken let's try it. Yes, you can use it. Let Mommy try it. It is not dried out. See. It wrote on your finger! No, I do not have soap in the car to wash your fingers. No, the marker is not broken. Repeat as necessary usually for 2-3 hours. :crazy2:

One of the sentences my parents used on me was, "Because I said so!" I HATED that. I always promised myself I would never do that as because is not a reason. I have only broken this once when he repeatedly asked for hours why asking questions was annoying sometimes to other people.

C&G's Mama and I sometimes play a game in the car to make me feel better when I think I can't take it anymore. As he stops talking I slowly start to count in my head - 1001, 1002, 1003 .... Never have I gotten past 1005. That's usually when I start to cry then I realize again that is just him and pull myself together and start answering his questions all over again.

I guess my question is do they eventually learn to process in their heads and not out loud? How do you teach them to do this?

I know he is only 5 but he never stops talking unless he is asleep or totally engrossed in something that really interests him. We worry about this at school as he is becoming the crazy kids who never stops talking to the other kids. They just ignore him a great deal because he just never stops talking and it is almost like I see him being invisible to them - they have tuned him out.

Thank you for all your help. This is really the one place we go to talk to people who "get it.":)

[mechurchlady]

I put mother on ignore. It is frustrating because she has asked me the umpteenth time for details on my Disneyland trip. I would explain twice then stop as he has the information. Hand him the marker and paper and let him figure out the answer. It takes a lot of patience. How many times has my mom talked about something and I just pretend to listen as I really hate her opinion on the subject and she done beat it to death.

Either they are being an annoying brat or they are miswired like mom and cannot stop asking the questions and retelling the same story over and over again. Have patience and be glad he is a talker instead of one of them stone cold silent kind that cannot tell you things. In time he should be able to get over his need to check on something.

[DisDreaminMom]

On this perseverating topic. My DS does this all the time. I think you need to just go along with it. Bookwormde is right. It's not a big deal- he just needs more info. And explanations that you might think are over his head are NOT. If you have big facts and he keeps asking about something, then throw them at the "wall" and see what sticks. I tell my DS the most insanely detailed information and if I don't have good stats for him, then we look it up. He likes bells- won't stop talking about them playing with then, seeing them in everything- then we look at bells on Youtube, at the library, etc.Now it's Paris- so I got every book from the library on Paris, every movie, etc. He does Googlemaps (by himself and he's 6!) and "flys' over Paris and the Eiffel Tower. You name the subject he's been interested in and I'm right on it. When he was REALLY into fans, I got him an HVAC book from the library. He memorized the pictures and looked at every air conditioning unit we saw. He was 4. Hard to explain to bystanders why DS is flapping and over the moon over a cluster of A/C units outside a building:confused3

So he's into Obama's election? Show him the stats from the county you live in or the national statistics. If you give him more facts, then he can actually talk more about subject and not seem like he's boring the heck out of everyone. (Day1- Who voted for Obama?: Day 2- 75% of voters in our county voted for Obama!: Day 3-Nationally, 53% of voters chose Obama.: Day 4- The electoral college will cast votes this way...) yeah, he's talking about the same thing, but the info changes and NT's don't notice as much.

How do I know so much about this? Mother was a museum curator, antiques and silver expert and author and definitely a touch of Aspie. That woman could go on forever on a subject that is so arcane, normal people would fall asleep. But she knows SO MUCH about stuff that even if you aren't interested when she starts a "lecture", you are by the time she's done. I lovingly call her "The cesspool of useless information". people from all over the world come to her for help and info, so I guess it's only useless if it doesn't apply to you...

Becky, aren't we long lost twins, too? I could have written your post about the homeschool conundrum. You should see my large stacks of paperwork, er, filing system. DH might divorce me over this- it drives him nuts. And I used to be an insurance agent and large warehouse manager and my paperwork was TIGHT! But not at home...:sad2:

Day 5 of snow days. Calling for more snow storms on Monday. OMG. Now we will miss our Disney trip in June from make-up days. :sad:

[BeckyScott]

DisDreamin, I am following your logic on art class. I've taken many an art class myself, and so of course I have preferences on what kind of art I like the best. ;) (pottery good, pastels bad) Maybe part of it, too, is due to my background, they had a fair amount of art at home. Like what the primary colors were and how to mix them into secondaries, etc etc, while they were in preschool. Youngest DS could also recite the colors in Spanish (thank you Dora the Explorer, can't speak in complete sentences but knows his colors in Spanish). :sad2: And they both have pretty good skill, but of course it is in what I would call "autism drawing", which is something much more like technical drawings of Rube Goldberg machines, and not so much the proper shading of a still life. I think they would have much more fun in a CAD class. But still... gosh... you'd think that due to their general "I don't like to sweat" attitude that art would be pretty high on their list of faves.

koolaid- We sometimes play a game in the car called "who can not speak for the longest time?" Usually lasts about 6 seconds. :crazy2: And usually ends because one kid is ratting out the other kid. It's mostly oldest DS though, or definately when both kids are in the car. Youngest DS I have driven 2 hours home, just the two of us, with barely a word spoken. I think we both appreciate the silence.

Progress on the new behavior plan: They're pushing the limits now, which I knew would happen. Oldest DS is having trouble with the definitions of "talking back" and "arguing". And he also thinks that if he doesn't do those things, he should be awarded. I'm not so sure I agree with that, because that should be expected, it's not over-and-above exceptional behavior. Anyway, he tends to bug me about stuff (not persevering, but sort of maybe?) and even after I've said no, 10 seconds later here he comes again, with a different approach, trying to get a different answer. After about the 3rd time, I consider this very close to arguing. (it could be and could not be, I'd say you'd have to see it to figure it out, in his case I think it is) He'd make an excellent lawyer, as long as he'd never have to be in court before noon. :lmao:

I've also had a lot of trouble this week with our schedule being different and the resulting trauma of that. I do try to keep things routine, but there is only so much one can do, and sometimes things are not in my control!

[BeckyScott]

:coffee: Okay, guys, yesterday was horrible. I wanted the Dr. Phil camera.

I had decided after school to drive-thru and get the kids some food. Because DH and I had driven thru Sonic for breakfast and I felt guilty. ;)

So the kids get out of school and DS's friend of course is with him, and I say I'll give him a ride home, but he can't come over today. And I drove him to his house (only about 5 blocks) and the entire time DS is arguing with me about it. I didn't want to tell him we were doing drive-thru and that I didn't want to pay for this kid's food, nor did I want him over at our house anyway. He won't leave it alone. Fortunately, his friend got the clue when I pulled into his driveway, so he got out and went home. DS is not pleased.

Then we go to get food and youngest DS only gets fries because that's all he can really eat from a fast-food place, so I order him 2 large orders and order oldest DS a kid's meal. Well, youngest DS wants curly fries (which I am pretty sure have gluten but I let that slide) and then oldest DS wants extra fries and they are both yapping and I am trying to order. And so oldest DS ends up with curly fries too, all we got were curly fries, and I guess he wanted regular fries. And he had a total fit in the car. Not an autism-meltdown fit, a full-blown angry yelling crying off-the-charts fit, which also included saying things that were just not in the least bit acceptable to me. We got home and he is in the backyard throwing stuff. We got inside the house and he doesn't want the fries. I told him I had frozen fries if he wanted those. He is still very mad. He takes the kid's meal. (eventually he does eat the fries in the meal) He eventually chills back out.

Later that evening, he is on the computer and his time ran out. His brother wants on and brings me a coupon. We have kinda had an unofficial rule that regardless of how many coupons you might have, you can only do an hour max at a time, then the other kid gets a turn if they want it. And he insisted that he'd only had 1/2 hour and wanted to renew, and I said no he'd had an hour. No, I only had 1/2 hour. Well I didn't put the coupons back in my "bank" they were laying right next to the timer, so I had it right there. And off he goes. Again. I told him to go to his room and stay there until he got his act together. About 15 minutes later he appears in the kitchen and he's still mad. I send him back to his room.

I am at the end of my rope. And my biggest problem is, that I don't know what is causing the behavior. I don't think this is Aspie, tell me if I'm wrong. It could be the ADHD and specifically the Adderall, except that it hadn't worn off yet. It could be puberty. And I'm wondering if the child is bi-polar, seriously, the way his mood flips around so fast. He only acts like this at home, and usually not around DH. Should I talk to the school counselor? Our ped? I personally have anxiety issues and ulcerative colitis and I am pretty much a total mess. DH works almost non-stop so it's on me 99% of the time.

[mechurchlady]

I have SID so I have some quirks that might help you though this. I have bolded my view of how I would see things If I was in your oldest son's shoes. Can we get them shoes in a larger and nicer smelling size?


So the kids get out of school and DS's friend of course is with him, and I say I'll give him a ride home, but he can't come over today. NOT FAIR And I drove him to his house (only about 5 blocks) and the entire time DS is arguing with me about it. YOUR ARE NOT FAIR, I WANT TO PLAY WITH MY FIREND. NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR. WE DO EVERYTHING YOU WANT BUT YOU NEVER DO ANYTHING I WANT TO DO. NOT FAIR.
I didn't want to tell him we were doing drive-thru and that I didn't want to pay for this kid's food, nor did I want him over at our house anyway. He won't leave it alone. Fortunately, his friend got the clue when I pulled into his driveway, so he got out and went home. DS is not pleased.

Then we go to get food and youngest DS only gets fries because that's all he can really eat from a fast-food place, so I order him 2 large orders and order oldest DS a kid's meal. Well, youngest DS wants curly fries (which I am pretty sure have gluten but I let that slide) and then oldest DS wants extra fries and they are both yapping and I am trying to order. And so oldest DS ends up with curly fries too, all we got were curly fries, and I guess he wanted regular fries.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR. YOU GIVE HIM TWICE AS ME. NOT FAIR. YOU ARE FAVORING HIM AND GIVING HIM SPECIAL FRIES. NOT FAIR. MAKE THIS FAIR NOW!!!!!!
And he had a total fit in the car. Not an autism-meltdown fit, a full-blown angry yelling crying off-the-charts fit, which also included saying things that were just not in the least bit acceptable to me. We got home and he is in the backyard throwing stuff. We got inside the house and he doesn't want the fries. I told him I had frozen fries if he wanted those.
I DO NOT WANT YOUR STINKING STUPID FROZEN FRIES. I WANT TO BE TREATED THE SAME OR BETTER THAN MY BROTHER.
I WANT A DOUBLE ORDER OF CURLY FRIES LIKE HIM.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR. GIVE ME EXACTLY WHAT MY BROTHER GOT.
He is still very mad. He takes the kid's meal. (eventually he does eat the fries in the meal) He eventually chills back out.

Later that evening, he is on the computer and his time ran out. His brother wants on and brings me a coupon. We have kinda had an unofficial rule that regardless of how many coupons you might have, you can only do an hour max at a time, then the other kid gets a turn if they want it.
MOM I WANT THE COMPUTER FOR A LITTLE LONGER.
(note to self that that did not work)
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR
I WANT THE COMPUTER SO GIVE IT TO ME.
NOT FAIR THAT I CANNOT HAVE THE COMPUTER.
IT IS MINE, DO NOT TAKE IT AWAY.
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR.
And he insisted that he'd only had 1/2 hour and wanted to renew, and I said no he'd had an hour. No, I only had 1/2 hour. Well I didn't put the coupons back in my "bank" they were laying right next to the timer, so I had it right there. And off he goes. Again. I told him to go to his room and stay there until he got his act together. About 15 minutes later he appears in the kitchen and he's still mad. I send him back to his room.

Part of aspie thinking and SID thinking is justice. They need things to be just and fair. Your son has a bad case of the NOT FAIR BUG. Any time he does not get his way he will have a hissy fit as it is not fair to him. You gave one some special fries and double. It does not matter why you did it but that you did it. We cannot understand right now that the other kid would not get enough to eat. You took away his play time even though you had a reason. You took away his computer time even though you had a reason.

You are killing yourself with the kid. You need to take control and training him in social skills and how to deal with the NOT FAIR BUG. He does not act taht way with his dad so why? You got to start studying when he goes all out with fits over the NOT FAIR BUG. You see that with your husband he knows he cannot get away with it. What would your husband do if the kid threw a fit? In school he is not allowed to have them fits but with mom anything goes.

First place is with your husband as he has to know that he needs to step in for a little bit each day and get you a nanny or something to help you. Does he act this way on days with no school? If so then the problem is his not respecting you and bullying you into giving in. If it was not on weekends then it would be the stress of school that was pushing him to the edge. If on weekends when he is fresh and stress free then he should not be having the problem so much.

I send you hugs and coffee and am grounding your for a week in a time out corner in a spa in Arizona or maybe the Napa Valley. :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
:cheer2: :wave2: pixiedust:

[bookwormde]

Becky,

Since you are using the “behavior” based model I have tried not to “comment” but my experience is that it really does not work for any extended period of time. This is especially true when it involves an area of special interest or preferred visual input. Generally trying this just creates maladaptive manifestations which spiral out of control, often at an amazing rate. Skill development and logic are the only way I have been able to make progress.

Sorry you are having such a tough time, but in the end you will learn a lot from the “experiment”.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

Skill development and logic are the only way I have been able to make progress.

Can you explain this in more detail? Specific examples? If there is a better way to handle it, I will be more than willing to listen.

[mechurchlady]

http://www.socialskillbuilder.com/articles/socialskillsASDchildren.html
I am reading this right now.

Basically autistic kids lack social skills. They have to be taught things like how to converse, how to end a conversation, how to read people, and how to read people so as to understand the outcome of the person's body language.

Your son is hit with the NOT FAIR BUG. If faced with that situation he focuses on the BUG instead of being able to read other stuff around him. Normally a mother says NO and the kid whimpers and whines then shuts up. Your son cannot read you and understand that you mean NO. He needs to learn that.

When the BUG hits at home in my office it can last hours and I pay for it physically. At work, church, and in the car I have had to learn not to have a hissy fit and scream at people even if I am right. For me I learned a lot of this late in life, believe it or not. Like that woman who had a parking space right next to her but she went in front of me and took a space that I was going to park in. I have that blue tag on my windshield. I could have beat up her car or screamed at her or found her in the store and dropped hints and stuff or even explain to her that she was NOT FAIR. I could have but did not because of constant badgering from online friends and self awareness and education.

Becky, you wait for bookworm and he can technically explain everything you need to know. I will leave you with big hugs and chocolates and coffee.

Hugs
LAurie
:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
:wave2: pixiedust: :hyper: :cheer2: :grouphug:
pixiedust: :grouphug:

[bookwormde]

You must do a lot of the same analytical work that is used for ABA, but instead of focusing on behaviors you work on the underlying skill that is missing or incomplete.

It is especially important not to overlook what may seem to be the most basic skill. And many times a single manifestation comes from a great number of missing or deficit skills, which may be layered on top of each other in a “helix” fashion.

Sometime you use specific reward model (with reduced frequency with time) for “enticement” but often just being to have the child understand the “logic” behind the skill is more effective.

Unfortunately to do the analytical portion you have to “let go” of all the innate sociological assumptions which takes great intellectual understanding of this area and to work from an almost “other worldly” perspective. It is one of the most difficult things a neurotypical can try to do, probably more difficult than a spectrum individual trying to understand nuerotypical social conventions, which lack a logical basis.

While not completely following the full analytical model, the simplest version is to take a situation, which you believe is “damaging” to your child and his future and “pick it apart”. Avoid all social assumptions; see what is “driving” your child in these situations (anxiety, neurovariant needs, such as visual input, perfectionism, non linear data input, missing skill avoidance etc.). If there are sensory issues they must be accommodated for first. Once you can identify a skill, which is involved, you need get the child to buy into the “logic” of the skill and provide other enticements as needed. Then practice the skill in a visually reinforced program (charts, pictures etc) and generalize it to other situations. Often since areas, which are identified within a critical “behavior”, are difficult to address directly in the beginning it is better to work on them in an alternate situation and then after reasonably mastered try to expend and incorporate the skill into the more challenging area.

Just be careful as with all things that the reason is not just trying to make the child “more neurotypical” but has a reasonable and logical non-social basis for the need for a change.

Looking back to your original plan there are 2 things that you might want to look at, first is what was the logical basis for reducing “visual” time. Second is were you using socially based assumptions, rewards and goals and was there a plan as to how to fade the rewards once the “behavior” was obtained (and if you adapt the skills model, what skills would improve the situation). And always never use an area of “special interest” as either a reward or punishment no matter how convenient or effective it seems initially since the repercussions are severe in the long run.

The not fair thing is very common when the child had not “bought into” the logic and basis for anything, which is affecting him since in his mind it, makes “no sense” and is just a “personal assault” on his sense of justice

As we all know there are no easy answers

bookwormde

[Schmeck]

And the most difficult thing to do is realize that one person's sense of logic is not the same as another's, so each of the steps bookwormde mentioned above is a unique thing for each person. Even those diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome each have their own unique sense of logic and justice and thus cannot be lumped together. I find it a satisfying challenge to find the key that unlocks a student's awareness and watch them have success where they used to struggle. I wish I could tell of some success stories, but confidentiality laws prevent me. But think of the joy a parent would feel when they learn that their son just asked another boy to eat lunch with him, for the first time ever, without prompting!

[bookwormde]

Yes it is like playing detective in a country that you do not speak the “language” or know the customs.


bookwormde

[DisDreaminMom]

Wow, I just jumped on here to relax and here we are, in full blown discussion of the NOT FAIR thing. I laughed so hard I cried at Mechurchlady's wonderful interpretation of Becky's day with boys. Classic!

I have to laugh, too because I have a strong case of this social justice thing and frankly, it has been my downfall most of my life. It's rather ironic that I'm the only one in my family that is NOT a lawyer (Dad was attorney; mother had law degree and social work degree, had psych patient kill herself in front of her, and became museum curator and now writes books and appraises antiques and does strange historical research; my sister is attorney; aunt is attorney; uncle is, best friend since 3rd grade is, multiple cousins are-you get the picture). I have always been into horses (have double B.A. in horses and management), but when not working on horse farms (usually quit over some injustice), I have worked at White Castle, as an insurance agent, a trainer for Franchise owners for a large corporation, a warehouse manager, self-employed horse trainer, a store manager at the mall, and after eight years of being at home with kids, part time at Disney Store ('cause it's a happy place).

I was thinking the other day that if you read my resume, I look schizophrenic. I did like most jobs I had, and have always been promoted quickly and only been fired once (because someone wanted my job-not for poor performance), but I was constantly looking for some magic place where management was "fair" and life was organized. I'll be 38 this year and remember coming to conclusion that I need to just get over myself (last year, actually). It has been so refreshing to let go of my NOT FAIR thing and now I am firmly entrenched in the concept of "GET OVER IT".

Guess what? I love art, but hated art class. Get the picture? You are seeing your son's future now, and it looks vaguely like my past......:hourglass

So what I am babbling about is that Bookwormde is right- your logic stinks- Aspie wise. Children like yours are having a conversation with themselves during your dealings with them and they DO sound like what Mechurchlady says. Now that I see it, I try this:

[Pulling up to drive through and kids are loud] "If you are not quiet, I can't hear the speaker and you will get pickles on your burger and you will be sad".

[Computer time is causing kids to literally fist fight] "DD gets more time because she --- and you chose not to. If you do ---- next time, then you will get same time."

Sometimes I just say "Because I said so!!!" but it never "sticks". I have to make the most dire predictions of the outcome to make sure things work. "You need to stop being upset over not getting dear friend over or else he will never be invited back to the house again because you can't control your reaction when I said he couldn't come".

We went to Superbowl party at DH's coworker's house. They have two young children- like 4 and 2- and DS was SOOOOO good. Never stimmed, never got too loud, played so well with baby and little girl, never whined, even picked up the toys he was playing with when it was time to go, thanked the host and hostess. ALL WITHOUT PROMPTING!!!

Where is my son? What did the aliens do with him?:confused3 I'm guessing it was because it's much easier for him to socialize with younger children. He's 6 but got along famously with 4 year old girl. He could play with her dollhouse and she never made fun of him....

[mechurchlady]

Part of the problem with dealing with spectrum and other quirks is that the parent comes from a family with quirks and has their own hidden quirks. My great Grandmother was not quite like her husband, her daughter is my grandmother who once put a dead pigeon in my mother's bed and was a prankster, her children all have quirks, and now me and my cousins have quirks.

We do not see the quirks however because we are raised as if they are normal. It is like the white child seeing an asian child for the first time. The white child does not come from that culture where people take off shoes and leave them in front of the house. Its culture eats with utensils while the asian child may use chopsticks, fingers, or bread to scoop up food. If everyone in the world that you know had 6 fingers on each hand, a tail, and a third eye you would be the freak.

I am glad I made you laugh but for me that is how I think. I have neurovariations but think of myself as a frequent flyer on Air Spectrum.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[DisDreaminMom]

Dearest Mechurchlady, I'm not laughing AT you, I'm laughing WITH you;)

Oh, Becky I was re-reading your earlier post and I did have another thought. Perhaps your DS's are just acting like teenagers? I mean, it's not a fancy title, but one that is going to start being more and more applicable..:scared:

[BeckyScott]

Okay, more specific questions, although they are probably applicable in several situations. I will back up to the infamous Friday.

First off, I figured out what the confusion was at Hardee's. It was the word "regular". A very simple mistake to make. Oldest DS wanted a kid's meal and a regular fries. His translation- regular as opposed to curly. What I heard- regular as opposed to small (or large). Since youngest DS was also asking for "regular" fries, and he meant as opposed to small, well yes it was my mistake but a mistake that anyone could make. That is, as simply as it can be, what happened. Should I have clarified- probably. However, in the confusion of trying to order, plus my car window doesn't work so I had to *open the door* and it is January, plus the general chaos of both kids after school, plus as usual I was so busy juggling what the kids wanted that I hadn't thought about what to order for myself and was throwing that together last-minute, it was an easy enough mistake to make. The reaction I got was that I was stupid and that I don't listen and that life was a horrible miserable thing.

I being n/t (I guess) :confused3 here are things as I see them-- 1. we're not turning the car around, (edited to clarify: we're not going back because I only had $15 and no I'm not stopping at an ATM because we have a budget) 2. it was an honest mistake and I didn't do it on purpose, and 3. they're fries for heaven's sake, and 4. if it's that big of a deal to have straight instead of curly there are straight fries at home I can cook up, which I think is at least me trying to make amends, which is pretty generous of me considering I just got told I was stupid. I realize the idea behind #3 doesn't fly with the ASD crowd.

So then I have an 11-year-old in my front seat, hysterical, and I have no idea what I am supposed to do to fix it.

Also, and this is yet another problem, what about subject areas or decisions where, honestly, it is a "because I said so" situation? Because there is more to the subject than what the child needs to know. Because maybe it is an adult topic. Or maybe because you, as an adult, know better. I can try logic but I can tell you what will happen, because I've been there done that. Little friend can't come over today. Why not. Because I said so. (okay that isnt going to work) He can't come over today because we have things to do. Like what? We need to run some errands. Well he can come with us. No, I don't want to have him along. Why not? Because his mom is at work and it's not a good idea for me to be driving him around in my car when she doesn't know where he is. Well he can use your phone and call her. Okay, okay, STOP already. I don't want to drag another kid with me around town, period, two is plenty and he's not my responsibility, and there comes a point pretty quick where I don't want to have this discussion, because no matter what I say, there will be a counter-point. It could go on for years, this same discussion. Or maybe I don't want you going over to his house because as parents, we have decided that the atmosphere there is not what we would like (I am phrasing that as politely as I can), so that oldest DS can run back to his friend and tell him that we don't like his parents? Um, no.

At any rate, we had a nice long talk Saturday and got some things cleared up. I think. I don't think what I am looking at is totally Aspie behavior, I think that there is a little hormone action going on, and a little confusion about the role of all the members of the family.

I'm not meaning to sound snippy. I know we are dealing with a whole lot of "not fair" bug, the Aspie-ness combined with the whole problem of youngest DS's autism and the additional attention he has received. So it's not even like a "typical" sibling "not fair" bug, it's more extreme. I can relate myself, personally, to the "not fair" bug. Bottom line is though, that sometimes things aren't fair, they just aren't, and sometimes parents make decisions that you might not like. How do I teach that?

[Schmeck]

So then I have an 11-year-old in my front seat, hysterical, and I have no idea what I am supposed to do to fix it.



I'm not meaning to sound snippy. I know we are dealing with a whole lot of "not fair" bug, the Aspie-ness combined with the whole problem of youngest DS's autism and the additional attention he has received. So it's not even like a "typical" sibling "not fair" bug, it's more extreme. I can relate myself, personally, to the "not fair" bug. Bottom line is though, that sometimes things aren't fair, they just aren't, and sometimes parents make decisions that you might not like. How do I teach that?

First point - you're not the one who will fix the hysterics because the fries were curly. Your 11 year old will fix it, you just need to find the right tools for him to use. Basically, you need to ask him (when he's not fixating on the curly fries) what would be a proper response when he doesn't get what he wants? What response would help him get what he wants? Ask him how having a hissy fit is going to help him get the fries he likes? Play into the need for logic and justice. Validate his right to have feelings (no one's feelings are ever right or wrong, they're our feelings, period. What we do with our feelings is the sticking point). Yes, it's disappointing to have the wrong fries. You'd love to get the right kind, but the hysterics are preventing you from getting them. You've got to find that 'logical' place, of pointing out consequences to actions.

The 'not fair' bug is a bit trickier - you don't want to get into the 'you owe me' mode, as that can really backfire. Lots of positive support for showing patience, maybe a moderate reward system (but don't get into negotiations!) and a bit of reverse psychology. Set up a situation where it is more 'fair' to your elder son, and 'not fair' to your youngest (he doesn't even have to know about it - give the older one a bigger cookie, etc) As long as the older one won't go and lord it over the younger one, I've found that this works pretty well.

[mechurchlady]

First of all regular fries are not like frozen fries or them curly fries. I used to live for fries and have sensory issues. What you have said is like saying that all cookies are alike. Hey kid have a Lorna Doone as it is a cookie just like an Oreo.
BIG MISTAKE

You gave him the wrong food then said they were all alike. The aspie in him said ILLOGICAL. Mom can you not see the difference in calories, taste, texture, shape, smell, feel, and look? ILLOGICAL, DOES NOT COMPUTE. Thus you set of an aspie trigger which was giving him a blatantly false statement. Then you kept being ILLOGICAL. You then set off the NOT FAIR BUG by not going back and getting what he wanted. IT IS NOT FAIR that you would drive back if they gave you chicken nuggets instead of steak so why are you not doing the same for me? NOT FAIR BUG then bites him hard because again you are ILLOGICAL. What person in their right mind accepts bad service and getting the WRONG ORDER?

:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
Break time for Becky

Now for the fight in the car about the boy. What I do with mother is stop it. Right then and there. WHY? and I say end of conversation. It is something about the kids with ODD that are so defensive and other stuff.

==========================\
Their is the line and that is it. I am not going to go get the newspaper in the rain, end of story and no guilt trips. No more questions. That is the only way to deal with it. You have the talk and show him logically that sometimes parents have things they do which is UNFAIR to your son and others because the parents cannot tell kids certain things.

It is hared but you have to stop the responding. When he said why then you explain that you have errands and cannot take the friend. When you said his mom would not know where her son is then you opened up a LOGICAL ANSWER which was use the cell phone. With my mother she lacks in logic, lol but she does the same as your son but with fighting. She threatens to go to a nursing home and sell the house. She talks about how I do not love her and care for her and then cringes when I yell. One thing after another because she did not get her way.

STOP, draw the line, and end the conversation. You made a mandate and that is it, end of conversation. If he keeps it up then ignore him. He will keep coming back for more and more. The aspie in him does not understand your reasoning and there has to be a solution. While this is most often seen in ODD children or what ever that offensive defiant disorder is. Even kids who are not autistic do the very same thing. Why Daddy? lol.

I need a nap. I just got to finish stuff and replan my week because of Calvin.

I send you all hugs and chocolates and coffee and dole whips.
Laurie
:coffee: :wave2: :beach: pixiedust: :grouphug: :cheer2: pixiedust: :moped: pixiedust:

[bookwormde]

I limit the “I said so” category to issues of safety, law and major disruption of someone else’s life or serious damage to property, My son has been briefed as to the importance and logic of this and in the vast majority of circumstances it “works”.

It does take a lot of time to explain the reasons and logic to a spectrum child but is from my experience the only way to get them to “buy into” the decisions. Most spectrum children do not discriminate between adults and children so the social “I am the adult” is pretty much useless, this is especially true since they see adults doing things with little apparent logical basis (or if there is one it has not been fully explained).

I do think that much of what you are facing is a combination of things, but it is my suspicion that the ramp up of manifestations and events is due to heightened anxiety from the “experiment”, this can be especially acute with “self adapters” when their world changes. My son’s teacher at school tried some “neurotypical” structures at school (despite my warning to the contrary) and within 2 month the whole school environment became non functional for my son. It has taken over a month to get things “back on track”.

As to teaching the “sometimes things are not fair”, I do not have a good answer since in so many cases there is really no reason other than social convention and convenience, the one area I have been able to make progress on is getting my son to look beyond the isolated immediate event and consider the “fairness” in the bigger picture and over a span of time.

One other thing I have found helpful is to review how DS’s actions impact others, including you. This is not a “guilt” thing but provides a broader perspective for him to make decision from.

Everything is a “work in progress”

bookwormde

[PrincessMom4]

Hey all,

here's another scenerio... my DD9 is a bright child and has a heart made of gold. However when she doesn't get what she wants or can't handle a simple situation she has a MELTDOWN. We have been trying to get help since she was 4. She has now been tested for autism (the results are not conclusive as it shows some signs) and aspergers (she lacks the social skills). She has a low working memory and almost no social skills at all. We are working with a couple of psychologists to get her on the right track. Right now we are learning about " our bucket" which is in each of us and this bucket fills up with our demands and expectations. When we have more demands/expectations than we have coping skills for our buckets gets FULL. We are teaching her to make sure that bucket stays half full (if the bucket is empty you get the "I am bored" syndrome). Teaching her that when she gets overwhelmed by things like people screaming or talking to loud that is making her bucket FULL and when this happens what does she need to do. She says I need space and usually goes to her room to read or something that she wants to do in her room (ie play barbie's, dolls, etc).

[mechurchlady]

Anyone wnat to disect Calvin and find out what is up with him?
I know he has to watch his temper, hissy fit about someone stealing our parking space.

He likes to talk to little girls and mentioned to me how much girls of a certain age love the parks. Pain and annoyance led me to overlook this but He needs to stop as it freaks parents. Wait there is more which is puzzling to me.

Mac n Cheese. He asked me twice at DLR and then the next day asked mom if he could make her some of his delishus yummmy home made macaroni and cheese. Pride done hit him on that subject. Mom was in shut down full-turtleshell mode and not happy with Calvin redoing our kitchen and cleaning it.

So now I have two instances where he has hounded me or obsessed on something. It was pouring rain but he had to stop for chips then stop for ice cream while I was soaking wet. HELLO, anyone in the skull. If not for Mark the plaid I would have meltdown big time and was crying and getting sick but he could not remember that mom has to be fed by 6 PM every day because of her diabetes and I am the meal maker. It was like with a kid who did not want to go home despite the odds against us.

Calvin cleaned the kitchen but I still have on the top shelf, 7.5 feet off the groung, leaning stacks of stuff put up there by his employee. He put the toaster on the second shelf from the top despite the fact that I keep the toaster on the third shelf for allergy control, bread away from food. My spices where way on the top shelf of the rack not eye level on the second. It took me a while to find my knives. He had to put away stuff even though I have to have things on the counter. I avoid stress so grabbing a potato peeler off the counter is less stressful than trying to find one in a drawer, a coping technique.

Breathes and grumbles. I slept sound and long that night and came in to find a big triangle of water in the kitchen by the sink. He did not put the rubber thing down so anything could fall through the sink into the bucket full of moldy water. I forgot to mention that Calvin leaves the back door open, um, I was screaming at him because we have one space heater for mom and cannot have the house chilled. I wonder where my pliers are as I use them for removing fish and stuff from meat.'

He does not like to be rushed either. Pick a jacket that fits but he was like a kid and had to try them all on. Rain jacket, your size. Wasted time.

I am wondering if there is not something wrong like aspie but he is not aspie. I have been around men in someway since I was born and at least my dad cleaned up after himself when working in the kitchen but then again he feared mom.:lmao: I am so used to ignoring mom that I wonder if I have ignored things about Calvin. He is a big lovable lug and a Barney Bear type of guy. As a brother he is fun to be around as long as he has a handler and some training. I need a handler and take a friend who needs more handling than me, what was I thinking.

Thanks for letting me talk this out as this is the first time in a long while that I slept 4 + 4 hours probably. Deep sleep and I made me a snuggly tight nest in my bed with pillows and snug blankets. Swaddling for me is very good but how do you swaddle when you are my size. :lmao: :rolleyes1
:hug:
hugs and chocolates
Laurie

[bookwormde]

PrincessMom4

What you describe from my experience is not the typical “I am not getting what I want” but more of a “nobody understands me and I can not understand this illogical world I am in”. This creates chronic anxiety (which girls hide much better than boys), which is why the rapid ramp up to melt down levels.

One way to think about it is that you have to “plan” your whole world to make it manageable, when on piece (need/want) is removed the whole puzzle falls apart.

Sounds like with your bucket approach you are teaching skills so that is good, and is very helpful once a number of skills become well adapted into her life.

The memory/ auditory processing thing is very typical for spectrum individuals and really should be a big piece for the clinician’s evaluation. It comes from our visual nature and our non-discriminatory non-linear memory structure. This information is “filed” but is not prioritized in short-term “electrical” memory, especially if it is verbal, which is a completely linear structure.

Every description you give says Aspie and if she were a male, she would have more of the physical manifestations and would be a simple Aspergers diagnosis. The problem is that DSM-iv was written based almost completely on the male model. Even at that with reduced innate social skills, auditory processing issues, sensory issues it is hard to believe that a competent clinician would not be able to give a formal diagnosis. One thing that a lot of parents of female Apies do is video tape their daughters meltdowns and other anomalies which may not be apparent during interviews (like they are with males). I have talked to a few parents who as soon as they showed these tapes to clinicians got a proper diagnosis.

Transitions are one of the most challenging skills to teach but as we have made progress with our son it has also been one of the most helpful and rewarding (we work on it big time during our trips to WDW). Adjusting the bucket level is something that comes with maturity and self-awareness of the nature of her neurovariation.

bookwormde

[PrincessMom4]

See I have video taped her during her meltdowns and shown it to our intake worker who talked to the psychologist. what are tips and suggestions do you have for us?? I have read a lot of books from Dr. Ross Greene (The Explosive child) to Family first (Dr. Phil) to Magic 1-2-3, etc. It may also help to know that she MAY have a brain injury as a result of an injury as a toddler at daycare. She has GREAT language skills and this resulted in part to her not having aspergers.

[PrincessMom4]

I forgot to add I am trying to teach her (whether or not she had a condition) coping skills like mediation or yoga when she gets frustrated. She also will be using an MP3 player with classical music and some relaxation technique at school so that she can focus and that the noise (of the class or background sounds-ie.if a fly buzzes she hears it when no one else does) doesn't bother her.

[bookwormde]

Internal focus activities like yoga, meditation and other eastern studies are great.

Complete language skills (excluding the social skills and TOM deficits ) are one of the “prerequisites” for Aspergers not an item that would in any way exclude it or make it a less likely diagnosis; otherwise HFA is the appropriate diagnosis. If anyone in the clinical group you are working with has indicated this, it is time to move on to a new group, which has a better level of competency.

First the neurologist or whoever is the “diagnosing clinician” is the one who needs to see the tapes not the intake person, also try to get a complete “event” from calm to melt down to back to calm and try to include other manifestation other than just the meltdowns.

While a potential brain injury might have an impact, from your description I would doubt this is the case.

bookwormde

[PrincessMom4]

Actually it was a psychologist who said it did not look/appear like it was aspergers or autism.

[bookwormde]

If the psychologist was the one the said that having standard or better verbal skills was in any way a disqualifier or negative indicator for Aspergers than he/she is grossly incompetent in that area of the Autism spectrum.

bookwormde

[DisDreaminMom]

I was thinking the same thing.

Churchlady, HUGS to you. (tight ones...):lmao:

[PrincessMom4]

They had my daughter in the office for a couple of hours doing some "test" (like math, language, etc) and they wanted to see where she scaled on the test. her math skills are a grade 2 level because of her poor working memory. The psychologist just wanted to see if she would score on the DSV-whatever the heck its called test....LOL... I have never filled out so many forms in my life and I worked in an office.

[bookwormde]

The testing that you describe is an IQ test that differentiates between different areas, verbal, spatial etc. If what you describe is all the evaluation they did then it was not anywhere near a standard or needed evaluation, which is multidisciplinary including psychologists, neurologists, audiologists, sensory specialists etc. I also include questioners (for everything form social skills to sensory issues to areas of special interest and so forth). from the home and the school environment. Many include a “play” session also.

What you describe is what happens when someone who does not specialize in and is not adequately educated in the autism spectrum attempts a diagnosis.

bookwormde

[mechurchlady]

If the psychologist was the one the said that having standard or better verbal skills was in any way a disqualifier or negative indicator for Aspergers than he/she is grossly incompetent in that area of the Autism spectrum.

bookwormde
I listen to the bookworm and learn. I agree with him on this point.

You need to self educate yourself on what is possible and what she does have. Doctors are not always up on new stuff or are pig headed fools who will only stick to what they believe is right. Almost everyone on this board personally or through family, friends and others have run into doctors who do not do the right thing or not enough. My aunt is in a nursing home and part of the problem was that her beloved family doctor allowed her diabetes to go unchecked for 5 to 10 years. It got so bad she almost lost her foot. My mother's doctor sees her 4 times a year and she is still coughing but she is fine. If I had lots of money I could find a doctor who would have a litany of things that my mom needs done and same for me.

hugs and chocoaltes
Laurie

[PrincessMom4]

Trust me I've had a lot done and been through several different agencies. We live in Canada so all our helath care is paid for. My daughter goes in next week for a cat scan with the neurologist. We are on a waiting list for an occupational therapist. We have many strategies in place for her without a "real" diagnosis. We have a specialized doctor that has her on some potent meds and he had her as ODD and ADHD as well.

[bookwormde]

Sounds like most of what you are doing for her is what would be done with a diagnosis so you are way ahead of the curve there. I do not know much about the Canadian system but they must have some regional centers, which are qualified to do an evaluation, the trick is always getting an appointment approved. When you sit with the neurologist to discuss the cat scan it would be a good time to see if he/she has any recommendations as to a highly qualified clinical team to do an proper evaluation.

bookwormde

[Tissa]

Oh why haven't I seen this thread before now!

My ds 11 is autistic and we have several of the same issues that others have only I have always felt so alone. I've always felt like his outbursts and violent behavior was something I was doing wrong, that I'm a failure as a parent.

Ds has terrible rages sometimes and it's getting hard for me to restrain him. He hits, kicks, and spits at me. Then when he is done he wants me to "pet" his arm(rub) then he calms down. He then wants a hug and says sorry.

We are just so frustrated with him right now. He loves to make loud noises and scream. His brother says he ruins everything. I think we are just worn down.

I should say I'm not his birth mother, I'm his aunt who took over raising him when he was 18 months and his brother (who has Cerebral Palsy)was 4. I'm raising them with the help of my mother. We are all we have.

[mechurchlady]

Lilo: Ohana means family, family means nobody gets left behind.

Your nephew just needs the right diagnosis, right help and lots of tedious studying by his family. It is long and hard work to deal with a person who has autism or any of the other myriad of brain quirks out there. Read through all the autism threads posted here and feel free ask questions and learn.

He makes the noises not because he is a brat but because something inside his brain is not wired right. He could love the sound he makes or may be stimming. You are not alone and I have a mother who is highly sensitive and boy is that a pain in the rump when you live with a deaf person who can still here when she wants to. I have meltdowns and my mother will not eat if she is having one of her meltdowns.

I send you a stitch plushie and a ton of hugs to a wonderful auntie.:grouphug: :thumbsup2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKdQMxy61bU&feature=related

Chin up and big hugs from me. A song to cheer you up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjWh2eD8Mgw

I am not very experienced in these things but when you need a hug stop by and get an armload of chocolates and hugs.
:grouphug: :cheer2: :dance3: :hug: :thumbsup2

[bookwormde]

Tissa,

Lots of threads with thoughts and ideas on Austism spectrum children (and adults) in the community board so have fun digging back.

The more you can educate yourself about the Autism spectrum from current sources the easier it is. You are doing the best you can with the knowledge and supports you have available so do not feel that you are doing anything “wrong”. Comprehensive support is what is needed for our children, including environmental accommodations for sensory issues, non academic curriculum of social skills, TOM and EF skills education communication supports if that is an issue, self awareness about his neurovariation and to have anxiety levels managed to avoid co morbidities. Of course your love is his #1 need.

bookwormde

[Tissa]

Thanks Churchy, I recognize you from SGT although I'm just a lurker there.

Bookworme, thanks, you are full of wonderful information.

Ds is an autistic program in school called ABLE and he is not mainstreamed. It has helped a lot and I loved his elementary teacher but now he's in middle school and I'm still getting used to the new teacher. She works very will with him and does not take any crud from him so I think things will be fine.

Our biggest problem is doctor appointments. He has a very strong fear of anything medical. He will not even see the nurse at school. If I take him to the Dr he just starts screaming from the time we arrive until the time we leave and nothing really gets accomplished. It's so traumatic that I've avoided taking him back unless he is sick and he hasn't been in over a year.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this? Besides me needing to be sedated LOL.

[bookwormde]

This level of “trauma” usually has to do with a sensory event, shots are a likely culprit but it could be something else, see if you can find a way to “get out of him” why he needs to scream at the doctors (Playing detective is just part of being a spectrum parent).

bookwormde

[Tissa]

I think you are right with the trauma part. He was also born with cataracts and had to have two surgeries at 3 and 4 weeks old. Plus he has asthma as a baby/toddler and spent many a nights in the hospital. I was just hoping that by 11 it would get easier. Especially since he hasn't had a shot in a while. He does need blood work done though and I'm not sure how to deal with that.

He has started talking more this past year but I can never get anything out of him as to what or why. All I get is "I done, I done, scream, scream"

I've finally gotten him into a clinic that only deals with special needs kids but they have not called me back for an appointment. I need to get on the ball with them. He just came home from school in a good mood so that is a plus.

[mechurchlady]

You need to work on why he is freaking out at the thought of even a nurse coming near him. Talk to him and work with him on his fear. It can be anxiety, lack of control of surroundings, or suppressed bad memories. He has to get over this. Role playing also helps. Give him alternates for releasing that built up stress. Screaming is his way of letting it all out. So get him to use fidget toys or something to let out that built up frustration.

omg my past has found me, hide me.
Hey quit hiding at SGT as we need fresh people there to stir up the site.

[Minnie M6]

Wow, we have the same issue with DS 9 and Doctor visits, although not to the same extent. He does not have a diagnosis but we are having him evaluated as I strongly believe he has Asperger's, especially after reading Tony Attwood's book and posting here and receiving wonderful feedback.

He has a horrible fear of shots, and will kick the nurses and scream...it's awful. I now understand it better, but it's really tough when you're in the middle of it. What I wanted to tell you is, he had to have bloodwork and a kidney ultrasound done a few months ago (he has bladder issues but that's a whole other story). We had the most wonderful Nurse, who took the time to explain to him every step of the way what she was going to do and why. I couldn't believe my eyes when she talked him into the chair and he sat without being restrained while she took his blood. Mind you, it was after 20 minutes of talking, but she was patient the whole time (more patient that I felt). It was all about answering his questions and giving him facts. I don't know if that helps, but I wanted to throw it out there. Good luck with the new clinic.

[C&G'sMama]

Oh why haven't I seen this thread before now!



Welcome. We are relatively newbies at this "spectrum" thing. DS was diagnosed with Asperger's this past July. The folks on these boards are incredibly supportive and have a wealth of knowledge.

And for me it's been some great emotional support too. Even though each of our kids is different in his or her own way, I have found kindred spirits here. People that "get it". They don't judge me or go tsk, tsk, when my son has had a meltdown or even when I have had a melt down. :goodvibes

Instead I get some great suggestions, virtual hugs and virtual chocolates (though some of the real thing would be good, I wonder if I have some somewhere....)

[mechurchlady]

C&G'sMama you can have some of my gluten free chocolate brownies and lots of hugs. I do tsk tsk sometimes but jokingly so you know that from the kid's point of view how wrong you are. Like the lady who could not see the difference between fast food fries, fast food curly fries, and frozen home cooked fries. Tsk Tsk on that one.:lmao:

I say I visit the spectrum on nice long vacations as I have no set diagnosis but know that it has to be genetic and that mom is super highly sensitive. I am half that and a few other brain traumas probably. I have been on both ends of the parent child relationship because of me being the parent to my mother.

I find this board to be a place where everyone knows you and cares for you through the tough times. It is nice to know there are other people like myself out there and it is nice to get them hugs. Dont need real chocolate as what I need most is love and understanding. Hugs make the day a bit brighter.

I am up late as I have to watch Law and Order at midnight with mom. She works on a word search puzzle book and rarely understands the story so I have to take mental notes and squeeze an explanation in at the end when she asks. I conceded to her this time and there is peace for a while.

line up
Hugs and chocolates and dole whips
Laurie

[BeckyScott]

I am still stumped.

I talked to DS and tried to logic with him. I explained that the reason we were doing the computer coupons and the quarters was because I was very frustrated. Because when I ask for help (like with chores) or when it's time to do something (like homework) that I don't get any cooperation. And because the most important job he has is to try his best at school, and that he's been "caught" several times trying to get out of doing work or slacking off. And that helping me do things at home was a part of being in the family, and that I don't always think they're very fun either, but they are things that must be done. He went along with this, and asked if he did those things, could we get rid of the coupons. I said okay, but emphasized exactly what I meant. (i.e., when I say that it's time for homework, which is the same time every day, that I would only have to say it once, that he wouldn't complain, that he would stop what he was doing and come on in the room immediately and do it, and I was going to go over every single thing in his planner, etc etc)

That worked for two days. :headache:

We have a bad infestation of the Not Fair Bug and the Don't Wanna Worm here. :banana:

He has help filling out his planner every day so that I know what is written in the planner is accurate. But he has very bad handwriting and they use "code" a lot and sometimes I cannot even figure out what's written in there. Then he either gets confused or just doesn't want to do all the homework. The planner will say Math WS 25-26 and it will be in the planner and he will tell me it's due Thursday, not tomorrow. So we will wait. And then the next day there is a note in his planner saying his math work wasn't done and now there's 2 more pages added on. I told him that from now on, I don't care what day it's due, if it's in the planner he's finishing it that night.

I also think the school is trying to drive me crazy. I don't know how anyone can do this. Both kids need direct one-on-one to do their homework. Youngest DS because of the distractibility. Oldest DS because much of the time he doesn't understand it. So let's look at the time frame- we get home at 3:30. They will both have 1/2 hour of homework plus 1/2 hour of reading time. I have to cook dinner (in theory with them helping me) and they have to eat and dishes have to be washed. DH isn't home to help. They both need baths, and I have to supervise youngest DS in there. Youngest DS will also need to be medicated/ lotioned after the bath. Lately we've been needing to nebulize him. Ten-minute-tidy the living room before bedtime. And they need to go to bed at 8:00. This is all assuming :rolleyes1 that we have nothing else at all going on that evening, no doctor's appointments, no meetings. It sounds feasible, barely, but it would also be polite to give the kids, I don't know, an hour in there somewhere to de-compress and be kids, because if you wanna talk "fair", I don't think it's fair for them to be at school all day and then come home and be drill-sargeant-ed around for 5 more hours without a break, and then get up and do it again the next day. One day last week they each had almost an hour's worth of homework, and it was the kind of homework where I had to sit with them and talk thru each problem, so I was doing a solid 2-hour stretch of "tutoring". (which is why I have no intention of ever home-schooling, as I was about ready to beat my head on the wall by the end of that) Neither one have modified homework, but if it keeps up I am going to have to approach that at the IEP meetings. It would be fine if it was only one kid per night, but I swear they are sitting around the teacher's lounge trying to figure out how to make me crazy.

Ugh. And now it's time to wake everyone up. :scared:

[mechurchlady]

Hugs for Becky and lots of coffee.:surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb:
I am not awake yet and am setting in my nest thinking about finding that bleeping black box coupon or no television for mom which would lead to 2 weeks of pouting hissy fits when I am on the computer.

Thugs I cannot help you Becky other that trading my mom for your two kids and sending you lots of hugs and coffee and chocolates and dreams of WDW in a concierge suite with nanny for each kid. :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb:

Do they make granny nannies?:lmao:

[BeckyScott]

I just wanted to clarify.

I know the standard is 10 minutes of homework per grade level. I don't know if you'd count reading time as part of that, I'm saying yes because it is required. So in theory, oldest DS should have 30 minutes of reading and about 20 minutes of homework. And maybe that's what it is for typical kids, but not how it is at our house, because he needs to be walked thru step-by-step for every single problem he's given, no matter how many times he does it. Youngest DS, forget it, he really is only required 20 minutes of reading so 10 more of homework, but he is soooo distractable that a worksheet that would take a typical child 2 minutes will take him the full 10, at least, and that's with me constantly reminding him to focus. Last week, that one night, he had 10 math worksheets, they were a re-do. Seriously. And of course, most of the re-do was because he wrote down the answers without showing his work, which is a recurring theme. UGH!

[bookwormde]

Becky,

He probably does not view your frustration as a logical basis. The whole concept of cooperation is a social one so that rarely works. His care and concern for you will have an impact, but if he cannot view the “rationality” of the underlying issues even that is transitory.

Schools that really understand children with spectrum characteristics, take to heart the leading clinicians recommendations that “homework” just does not “compute” for this group of children, so many IEPs in this area just specify an as practical and useful basis for homework.

I cannot imagine my son without at least and hour of decompression time after school, what a scary thought.

I have an early riser so he does a lot of his homework in the morning.

bookwormde

[C&G'sMama]

Regarding the homework. The NT DD and the Aspie DS. It's like pulling teeth with both of them.

For DS I've taken to sitting with him and when he is writing I count to 5 or 10 depending on the word. That gives him a concrete amount of time to finish the word in. He asked me what would happen if I got to 10 and he wasn't finished. I said, nothing, I'm just trying to get you to focus and it seems to be working. I did that with his book report last night and his home work tonight where he had to come up with word beginning with each letter in his name. He has 11 total.

I'm hoping that we'll be able to expand that to sentences eventually and not just individual words. If we leave him to his own devices he will do nothing.

I have the same issue with the NT 8 year old. I know she's NT but it's like pulling teeth with her too. I think some of her issues are related to self confidence and not liking to reread her work. So we sit with her too. She can write a story with 10 of her 20 spelling words and have 1/2 the words mispelled. When you ask her how to spell the words she knows them but somehow it gets lost going down onto the paper.

I'm sure the "rules" will eventually change and we'll have to try something else.

In the mean time we keep plugging away and looking for the light at the end of the tunnel (which would be our trip to Disney at the end of April)

As far as decompression time. Our kids don't get out of school until 4:15 (start at 9:00). They don't ride the bus so on nights they don't have activities they are home by 4:30.

[Schmeck]

Becky,

He probably does not view your frustration as a logical basis. The whole concept of cooperation is a social one so that rarely works. His care and concern for you will have an impact, but if he cannot view the “rationality” of the underlying issues even that is transitory.


Cooperation can be seen in the logical sense that no one can do everything, and some tasks are too big to handle by oneself to get done in the needed time frame. People need to work together to get a big project done on time.

For example, it takes 3 students to clean and set all the tables at the restaurant in the time alloted so that the restaurant can open on time. Options such as opening the restaurant later would mean people being frustrated that they could not eat at the time they expected to, and starting to set the tables earlier would mean the students would have to miss an activity they enjoy at school that happens before table setting.

A child needs to cooperate with a parent because there is a time frame alloted to get homework done, and there are more tasks that need to be seen to after the homework time. When a child cooperates with a parent then the work gets done on time and other activities can happen. A flowchart can help explain this to a child.

[BeckyScott]

Interesting point.

Neither DS has a good understanding of time passing, which may be contributing to it all. They get upset pretty easily when time has run out, or when it doesn't go fast enough. And they seem to think that somehow I can control time passing. (oh don't I wish! Honey, if I could control that, I'd be about 10 years younger!) :banana:

We use timers all the time, both digital ones and Time Timers, done that for years, and it really only frustrates them more. It keeps things "honest" and that's why we keep doing it, no argument over who got a longer turn or how long until something happens. They both get that a typical tv show is 1/2 hour, so if I tell them we're going someplace in an hour, they understand that's in 2 tv shows. I had to really watch myself, because I tend to say "okay, in a minute" and of course that's interpreted literally (oops) and when they'll go watch the second hand, and they're back.

We are constantly running late in the mornings, and they have trouble with the concept that school is not waiting for them before it will start. Our oldest is in 5th grade, and he went to preschool, so we're talking about 7 years of history with the idea of school starting at a specific time.

I can't sit here and tell you when exactly 6 minutes has passed, or exactly an hour, but I can hit it halfway close. I try to give several warnings when there is something coming up. Yesterday we had a dr appt and I told them that morning, on the ride home from school, a half hour-ish before we had to leave, 2 minutes before we had to leave (which is the "get your stuff together" warning). In the meantime, at the half-hour warning, they ventured out to the backyard and started a "project" and then got upset because it was time to go.

Oldest DS also has an unreasonable idea of what can be accomplished within a time frame. He thinks that within 2 minutes (the last two minutes before it's time to leave) that he can finish getting dressed, put on shoes and socks, brush teeth, comb hair, take meds, get on a coat and backpack... in theory possible, but with him not possible.

I would imagine this warped sense of time could make things seem skewed. Most people, it seems like time passes slower when you're doing something you don't want to, faster when you're having fun. It is only the "logic" side of you that makes you look at the clock and realize that it really only took 3 minutes to wash the dishes or that really you can clean the bathroom in 5 minutes, because it seems like it's taken longer than that.

I have approached the kids (and DH) :sad2: before with the idea that, as far as contributing to the chores, that when you divide up the work it makes it faster. That, for example, if it takes 20 minutes to clean the kitchen but all 4 of us help, it will only take 5 minutes. If you multiply that by all the rooms in the house, either one person has to spend hours cleaning, but if we all help it will take just a little time. (that is all somewhat theoretical, as if the kids are helping, one of us has to supervise them which makes it really not 1/4 of the time) I have also explained to oldest DS that if I have to do all the chores, that is less time I can play with him. But they are not very concious of the time passing, or of some very simple concepts... like if there is a laundry basket in the bathroom, there will be dirty clothes lying right next to it. All the time. Grrr. Or DS will put away his laundry just by taking the whole stack and shoving it on the shelves, and then can't find something later.

[mechurchlady]

I would time each task he has to do and write it down so he understands.
7:00 start
7:02 right sock is on, start left sock
7:04 left sock is on, start right shoe
7:05 right shoe is on: start left shoe
7:06 left shoe is on, start underwear
7:09 underwear on start pants
7:11 pants on, start shirt
7:12 pants on, take meds

This way he can see how long it takes to get everything done. Nice logical and no way to fight it. Also you need a last call to get dressed at 5 minutes before he needs to start. If it takes 20 minutes to do everything then last call at 30 minutes before hand because for him he is not putting the 2 minutes to the actual time needed to do the tasks. He hears Last Call and thinks that is the last time to start dressing instead of grabbing book bags and leaving the house. Communication problem it seems. Also you need to put some responsibility on his shoulders. "You are a big boy so here is how long it takes to do everything. I will call you about 10 minutes before you have to do those tasks. I know that you can get dressed and ready to leave without me yelling." Make it like he is a big boy and taking on responsibility.

[bookwormde]

Time perception is all tangled up in the EF differentials. When hyper focusing standard time perceptions just do not apply, real time is much longer than perceived time (sometimes by a factor of 10 or even more). So much of the need for “timing” is socially based that without the “logical” underpinning detailed down to the core ideas acceptance is a challenge.

On the practical side a big visual poster with times and events in plain view has been helpful for a lot of children (and adults). A dry erase board can be even better because they can fill a check box as items are accomplished.

Clothes basket is a good example, it is much more efficient to just drop clothes where you finish with them and when there are so many that you are out of clothes or tripping over them, then it is efficient to put them all in the basket at once. Anything else is a “social” reason.

bookwormde

[Schmeck]

Becky, how about investing in stopwatches, wristwatches, wall clocks, alarm clocks, etc? Can your boys tell time? Can they practice how long a minute is, by counting to 60? The students I work with have grasped the concept of time quite nicely, especially those that wear a watch/carry a cellphone.

bookwormde, is there any explanation besides 'it's social' to explain why someone doesn't do something? Remember, one person's logic is never identical to someone else's logic. So it's not a black/white, logic/social world. I think limiting anyone's success just because an issue appears to be not logical to one person is a great injustice to everyone else. I mean, is it going to be a black day for everyone because I saw 4 yellow cars in a row? (Mark Haddon)

[bookwormde]

Schemck,

You are correct that logical perceptions do differ between spectrum individuals, but these differences are only a small percentage of the perceptions differentials that come from neurotypical social distortions (or standards depending on your point of view).

I am a great believer in teaching our children skills so they can have the choice as to which, how much and when to apply them. Saying that the neorotypical “way” is the “right” way is to devalue what and who they are at the core.

We live in a world developed from and controlled by neurotypical social standards and live every day with that discriminatory situation, that is just reality at this point. It is a very difficult (almost impossible) thing for most neurotyipicals to divorce themselves from the innate prewired social “standards” that they were born with and have live with throughout their lives so it is never surprising that they cannot appreciate how illogical it is to spectrum individuals.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

But the clothes basket isn't a social situation.... (she says in her best whiny voice) :flower3: I run a load a day, so it is emptied out daily. It's not a holding tank to make the bathroom pretty, it's a commuter bus that makes a daily run to the laundry room. ;) He also leaves clothes laying all over his room (in actually very typical pre-teen style) and then tells me he doesn't have any clean pants. The social situation part of it, I guess?, is that Mommy's role is to do laundry, therefore, he doesn't need to mess with anything related to the laundry. And that's problematic. And it just gets under my skin because we do have a very small bathroom, the floor space in there is about 4 x 6, and only one bathroom, the clothes are literally right next to the basket. Touching it even. And if more than about three things get dropped there, it blocks the heater vent.

Oldest DS does have some major issues with, I don't know the exact name maybe visual discrimination?, at home I call it "where's Waldo". He is a visual person, and doesn't like things put away in his room, he likes everything out where he can see it. I *get* that. If something is put away out of sight, he forgets he has it. BUT. At the same time, he can't scan an area and spot an object. (where's Waldo) We have had several times in the past couple of weeks where he didn't turn in homework, and he will tell me it was time to turn it in and he couldn't find it and he looked all in his binder and he knows he did it (and I remember him doing it for homework). His teacher and the SpEd teacher I guess will give him time to find things, but they don't step in themselves and look for it. Anyway, I will look in his binder and there it is, right there, been there the whole time. And it's in a logical place, like the math worksheet is in the math folder. This is really frustrating for him, he realizes that he has a problem with that sort of thing. Or in the mornings, he will not be able to find his shoes. But the shoes are in one of two places-- on the shoe rack (where they're supposed to be) where I had him put them the night before, or they're on the floor of the living room if I forgot to have them tidy up the night before. It will be time to put on shoes, and I have watched him honestly step over his shoes and stand in the kitchen telling me he can't find his shoes. Our day is filled with "I can't find". And I can tell you, except for his room, our house is pretty tidy, no need for Clean House to stop by, ;) and pretty sparse (a leftover result of needing to childproof it for youngest DS) so it's not like he is scanning loads of clutter looking for some small thing. And so maybe the Where's Waldo is in play with the laundry basket too?

Schmeck, oldest DS would love you right now, if he knew you suggested getting him a cell phone. :love: And probably he will be getting one for his birthday this fall, because I'm tired of him borrowing mine all the time. See, I thought using the Time Timers would be a really great idea, they really are very neat and make more sense, but maybe it's the hyperfocusing that Bookwormde mentioned, they aren't working either. Plus the added distraction that they're more "mechanical" than a digital timer, so both kids were more interested in how they worked, rather than using them for their intended purpose. Maybe a white board is in order, though, not that it will necessarily help them track the passage of time, but it will lay out the schedule for the day.

[bookwormde]

Becky,

Yes for you the clothesbasket has practical (logical) implications, but he has no first hand impact from it. My version of dealing with this type of situation is to take him through the whole “factory process” of “clothes maintenance” logical step by logical step. Then explain what happens if he does not do his “work” in the factory process (he may have “logical” alternative that you may have to try to “explore”). Then comes the fun part (assuming he does not buy into it immediately) let him see the logical impact of his failing to contribute his “ work” in the process, or that his alternative system does not work assuming that is does not (no clean clothes to wear). Yes I know as a mom it is the ultimate social “no no” to let your child wear dirty clothes but if you want him to “buy in” the “experiment” must run it’s course. Sometimes this does not even work if the individual has no negative perception of the “system breakdown” (having to wear dirty clothes). In this case the next step is to use the impact on others methodology (mom is embarrassed, others do not like the smell etc). I have found that often even though the individual can not understand the logic of why something has an impact on others, if it is stated as strictly a perception which while not “logical” or “important” is still very real to the person being impacted.

Often the second phase is the first thing tried, and has transitory results but without the individual “analyzing” the system it rarely lasts. That is not to say that you would not need to remind him about the logical impact him not following the system occasionally but at least he understand the logical implications of the system and what happens when it “breaks down”.

On the finding things issue what happens is he does not get (and keep) a “picture” in his mind of what he is looking for and since visually we look at the “big picture” discriminating “small things” is challenging unless that picture is “right in front of us”.
Now if the room was exactly the same every day and something changed he could probably pick it out in an instant and tell you exactly what had changed. If it is a real serious issue take a picture and print it out of his shoes and when you want him to find them, hand it to him and see if that helps.

As with all issues it comes down to a behavior vs. skill issue, with learning about the “factory process” and applying it being the skill, which hopefully he can begin to “generalize” with your help to other situations.

It is funny that this system works on NT teenagers also since much of the “teenage phase” is about challenging social standards and conventions as they individualize, where as spectrum children experience this individualization from day 1.

bookwormde

[bookwormde]

C&g’sMama

My son’s teachers in trying different EL teaching systems tried one which work like this.

They computer print words with different sound letter combinations and cut each word so it is on a separate piece of paper, which have different sounds like “O”s in “hope” and “drop”. They generally combine 3 or 4 different sound combinations in the grouping of words and the total number of words is around 25-40. He then sorts them by sounds and then writes them down in list form. Since he has been doing this he has been getting 100s on his spelling quizzes, except for 1 week when time did not allow us to get to it and he score dropped precipitously.

I think the combination of the visual nature and logical patterning of the process and the fact that he is not required to be “creative” as he “uses” the words allows them to “imprint” much more effectively. He actually enjoys this “homework” if you can believe that.

He does misspell them occasionally when writing but it is a great improvement from before this teaching methodology was “discovered”

I know your 8 yo is primarily NT but if she has some visual characteristics it might help

bookwormde

[mechurchlady]

I feel like I am the only person around here besides bookewormde that understands logic versus socialization. Yes, a lot of it is about logic. The NT brain does what society says to do why the neurovariant does things based on logic.

Some of it is typical boy stuff but my mom would have left the clothes on the floor and let me stink for a while. Dad moved in when I was about 5 and he left stuff lying around the house as he had been a bachelor most of his life except two failed short marriages and another short marriage. Mother did not tolerate clothes strewn all over the house or wet towels on the floor but my bachelor dad did not see anything wrong with such things. He did get an ear full of learning, lol.:rolleyes1

Becky you need some coffee, hugs and chocolates.:surfweb: :grouphug: :grouphug:

For me what is the big deal that I got a pile of dirty clothes in my bathroom. I buy hampers and they disappear. I gave up on having hampers. I bring them into the house and they are gone. I rather have the dirty clothes on the floor than fuss over trying to find a hamper that has disappeared.

Bookworm thanks for explaining bout not finding things as my Uncle could not find things and I cannot find things. I got a long list of misplaced things. I even have to have a second set of keys so that eventually I find one. If I focus on the thing like a little song then I remember.
keys keys got to find keys keys ooh butterfly.

[DisDreaminMom]

OK, I'm the "social one" I guess. I grew up with a "no-hamper" family, everything was always LOST or DIRTY- keys, eye glasses, clothes, etc. It was so upsetting for me. My big sister lost so many mittens, my mother sat us down when I was about 5 and pulled out a needle and thread and told us that if we kept losing mittens, she would sew them on our wrists- and pantomimed the action- I can still see it. I have NEVER lost the mate to a pair of gloves since. When my sister moved into my apartment during college, she had a box 10 or so single gloves and it made me cringe. She just didn't care about her stuff and nobody ever held her accountable.

Since I was 10 I cooked, cleaned, and did the grocery shopping (Mom would buy 10 pounds of bacon-and nothing else- Why? Because she wanted bacon. Who needs to eat anything else? Dad started giving me $100 and dropping me off at the store when I complained too much one day and then liked actually having food in the house). My sister never did chores because she was always "studying" and my parents were too engrossed in their jobs.

Anyway, here is what we do in our house now that I'm in charge and make the rules: Clothes that are dirty come off and get put in laundry room immediately- if you miss the hamper then just try to get it close- it's more important to get it in the actual room. If you want to take a shower, take off clothes and hot foot it to laundry room to drop them off. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. If I find dirty clothes on the floor in the house, all activity ceases until offending owner puts clothes in proper place. (Adults get a hamper in the bedroom, for modesty reasons). After much nagging and reminders and being mean- DS- the Aspie one- or Mr. Rules, as we call him- is the one to point out and resolve infractions. :worship:

Keys, backpacks, hats, gloves, ,coats, etc. all have a HOME and those are the house RULES. If it does not have a HOME, then it doesn't belong in the house or we need to convene a meeting to decide where the HOME for that object will be. (There are group homes- i.e. toys in the toy box, and individual homes, i.e. your coat hook and shelf for your shoes). If you do not put your belongings in their HOME, then I am NOT responsible for assisting in the search or funding the replacement for the item.

The biggest house rule is that you can play, have fun, etc. but if you can't keep your stuff in the vicinity of where it belongs, then it goes in the trash or to Goodwill. Because if you don't care about it, then most likely I wasted my money and you didn't need it or will get it ever again.

Funny thing is, DS is the one who follows this best (appreciates it, even, because he couldn't find a ten foot monster in front of his own face but he knows where things' HOMES are and so he doesn't get frustrated unless somebody else moves his stuff). It's NT DD that has the most trouble keeping her stuff in the right place. I think DS and I see a picture of item in it's home but DD just thinks of item not being location specific, so she loses everything. Very frustrating.:sad2:

I guess without sounding like I'm really OCD (because I don't think I am), my point here is that if there is not an ironclad system in place for where to put items, then habits won't be formed and you are going to get frustrated. That being said, YOUR ideal place for something to live may not be your kid's best place, so let them chose. ("Where can you put your dirty laundry every time you take it off? Laundry room or bathroom or closet? You pick and if I find it anywhere else, it's mine")

Let them take ownership of the process- I give my kids the choice and then they take responsibility. If the house gets out of hand and stuff is everywhere, even the kids notice it and get frustrated. I don't care as much about them keeping a totally clean room, as I do about them respecting the "common" areas of the house.


BTW, my sister's house is absolutely scary and her children have no respect for their stuff or hers. They pulled the shower plumbing out of the wall, broke toilets in half, the walls are painted and colored, furniture is broken, garbage is everywhere, food is on the walls. It's so gross. They are upper class professionals with "normal" children the same age as mine (6 and 8) living in a very expensive house and they trash everything. It's impossible to think we are related. Even my kids are shocked when we visit there. My DS said after last vist, "Mom, their house has garbage everywhere and no one can ever find anything!" My work here is through...:woohoo:

My kid may think he's really a French Poodle (I had IEP meeting yesterday and the Speech teacher asked me how long we lived in France:sad2: Several other teachers in the meeting laughed out loud) but by God, his room is relatively clean and he can always find his shoes.:dance3:

[DisDreaminMom]

oh, and I'm sad because I had to cancel Spring Break run down to WDW with just me and the kids and our previously scheduled trip in June( too many snow days). Now I'm grumpy. I might have a tantrum. Seriously. :headache:

[mechurchlady]

Let me pad chat and let you have a tantrum. It is so not fair that you cannot go to WDW. You did explain that it is therapeutic and good for the kids.

Hugs tight DisDreaminMom and snugs her and hopes things will change as you need a vacation. You are a great mom and deserve a break. It is the school's problem that they did not melt the snow so kids could go to school.

Have some eclairs, beignets, hot fudge sundaes and brownies on me.
big hugs and sorry about the cancelled trip.:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :cheer2: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[bookwormde]

Sorry about the snow days messing things up, We are leaving the day after school is out so I am living nervously, but so far we have only missed 1 snow day so it would take really bad storm to mess us up. My big worry is how the kids would react it I had to cancel. I can not imagine them trying to teach my children when they were supposed to be at WDW, I would not want to attempt it.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

DisDreamin, I grew up in a clutter-bug house. It wasn't dirty, but it was full. I was raised by my great g-ma who was Depression-Era, and so you know she never threw anything away. Cool Whip containers, plastic bread bags, the whole nine yards. And my g-ma and mom followed right along. I was the rebellious one. :laughing: Up to about a year ago I was a mod on an organizing board that no longer exists, so I really have tried to implement a bunch of stuff. Some of it works, some doesn't.

So, for example, we have a Launch Pad. It's not the greatest one, cause the house is small and there wasn't a good place for it, but it does exist. The kids will put things there if they are reminded every time. But like I said before, DS will put his shoes there and the next morning he can't find his shoes. Hmmm.

It's not just the laundry, I have the same problem with trash. At one point I decided that it looked better to have multiple wastebaskets in a room, rather than trash sitting around, neither one was great but the wastebaskets didn't look quite so bad. And the trash just ended up on the closest horizontal surface, even if there was a wastebasket within arm's reach. The only advantage was that then I personally didn't have to get up, later, when I was clearing off a desk, I'd left myself a wastebasket handy. :sad2:

I guess what's confusing to me is that literature will tell you, for kids with autism, routine and predictability are very important. I interpreted that, as far as our home goes, that it is important for things to be almost hyper-organized, everything in it's place, so it was very predictable. Things were in the same place every time. That this whole concept was very important for the ASD crowd. And you'll hear plenty of stories about kids on the spectrum who have things obsessively lined up and organized just so in their rooms. My children, on the other hand, do not seem to give a rat's patootie about it. Yes, DS will sometimes decide to make a sculpture out of dominoes or something like that, and will expect it to be left alone for a few days. But it can be surrounded by total chaos. Oldest DS will take food into his room and it will stay there, and indeed we have had ants *magically appear* which freaked him out and there is a fully logical reason it happened and I left the food there on purpose because I knew it would turn into a teaching moment. And it worked that time, but since I guess ants don't show up every single time, he'll take his chances and fix it once it happens.

And yes, I'll send him to school in dirty clothes. Done it. ;) With him it's not so much dirt as stink, pubescent male stink. He's borrowed deodorant off the school nurse before. But the lesson doesn't stick. And I guess all the boys in his class must stink, because it hasn't had any social repercussions. Yet.

[Brightsy]

My kids, too, don't seem to mind the clutter of my home. We've got a lot of stuff, and since I'm ADHD and a lousy housekeeper things are often messy (not dirty, but messy). There's logic within my chaos, and the kids don't give a hoot. At school they have things set up just so, and in their rooms there are certain things that are just so, but by and large it's not a big deal.
My younger son also likes to have his little built things left alone. We've had the Indy JOnes Temple Escape leggo set up on the middle of the coffee table to 2 weeks now and Lord forbid we move it. When he's out of his Indy phase he'll take it down himself.

[Schmeck]

Schemck,

You are correct that logical perceptions do differ between spectrum individuals, but these differences are only a small percentage of the perceptions differentials that come from neurotypical social distortions (or standards depending on your point of view).

I am a great believer in teaching our children skills so they can have the choice as to which, how much and when to apply them. Saying that the neorotypical “way” is the “right” way is to devalue what and who they are at the core.

We live in a world developed from and controlled by neurotypical social standards and live every day with that discriminatory situation, that is just reality at this point. It is a very difficult (almost impossible) thing for most neurotyipicals to divorce themselves from the innate prewired social “standards” that they were born with and have live with throughout their lives so it is never surprising that they cannot appreciate how illogical it is to spectrum individuals.

bookwormde

Have you read Mark Haddon's book? Does it seem like a typical teenager with Asperger's Syndrome to you? Things that were logical to him (seeing 4 yellow cars in a row meant it had to be a bad day for him) are logical for all people with Asperger's?

[bookwormde]

Schmeck,

I usually do not read “novels” about spectrum individuals, especially when by someone who has not had a lifelong commitment to the community.

Even he admits “I've explained above I don't think I have a unique understanding of the autistic mind” so while based on an individual of the spectrum it is basically a fictional interpretation.

bookwormde

[Schmeck]

yes, but Tony Attwood uses fictional stories too.

[mechurchlady]

Schmeck,

I usually do not read “novels” about spectrum individuals, especially when by someone who has not had a lifelong commitment to the community.

Even he admits “I've explained above I don't think I have a unique understanding of the autistic mind” so while based on an individual of the spectrum it is basically a fictional interpretation.
bookwormde

I looked up Mark Haddon and his works are fictional. He does not openly state the source of his knowledge about autism. He worked with some kids with autism over 20 years ago but how and in what capicity would a person i their early 20's have with autistic kids.

MH: I did no specific research at all. Many years ago I worked with people with a variety of disabilities (all of them more seriously disabled than Christopher), so I feel comfortable writing about the subject and have what you might call an interested layperson's knowledge of autism and Asperger's. Beyond that I reasoned (rightly, I think, in retrospect) that the novel would work best if I simply tried to make Christopher seem like a believable human being, rather than trying to make him medically 'correct'. In short, if I treated him like any other character and didn't make him a special case.

MH: What I said above answers much of this question. But I should add that many of the kids I was working with 20 years ago were almost certainly autistic. However, the diagnosis was far more conjectural at the time.

These days, if you have a reasonably large group of friends and you are as nosy as I am about people's personal lives, you will almost certainly know people with a child who has been diagnosed with autism or Asperger's.

So, I guess the answer is a little personal knowledge, no research and a lot of imagination

Tony Atwood is a great author and he uses fiction because he cannot talk about the private people he meets. Fiction detaches me from the real person but still explains what the person with autism goes through.

[BeckyScott]

Brightsy, both boys also have ADHD diagnoses, primarily inattentive. It's interesting to see which things appear with both diagnoses, especially when the particulars are things that are almost opposite.

As far as the whole fiction/non-fiction thing, in my opinion there are sometimes things that kids (at least kids, as I have little experience with adults) will do that aren't completely logical. At our house, these are mostly sensory issues. So while there is good reason from the ASD perspective as it is a sensory issue, at the same time sensory issues are part of the diagnosis. They are also sometimes things having to do with routine, that are important for ASD but aren't always logical.

I will use examples from my house since they aren't fictional. (I guess they could be, I could be making this all up, but I'll trust that this far into the game you all believe these two children really exist) ;) For example, DS won't wear mittens. He will only wear fingerless gloves, and he doesn't like to wear them very much. It's sensory. But there is, of course, a very logical reason why one should wear gloves. I can explain it to him and he understands, and he's quite good at science and has seen plenty of Discovery Channel, but the sensory need outweighs the logic.

He will always sit in the same spot in my car. There really isn't a logical reason why. It started out because the kids will argue over whether the sky is blue :sad2: and whatever seat one wanted, the other one would automatically want. But now oldest DS is big enough for the front seat (air bag) and youngest DS has free reign of the back seat. He will only sit behind me, he will not get in the other door and scoot, must go in the door behind mine, must sit behind me. He also will not use the shoulder strap part of the seat belt, he puts it behind him, and is really only using the lap belt. It's sensory, the shoulder strap bugs him. But for heaven's sake, there is a very good reason the shoulder strap is there, other than a sensory issue there isn't any sort of logical explanation why one shouldn't use the shoulder strap. On the contrary, there are plenty plenty plenty of reasons why seat belts exist. Just the other day oldest DS was lecturing him about the seat belt and Gloria Estefan's bus accident (which they learned about in music class for some reason). But since the sensory problems are directly connected to the ASD, you could boil it down to say that the ASD has caused an "illogical" situation.

(let me add that I will only let him do that if he's in a back seat, if he's in a car where he can sit in the front, he must do the shoulder strap)

Even in my previous post, about DS leaving dishes laying in his room which attracted ants, and youngest DS will also leave dishes laying around, or maybe he'll take a bag of chips into his room to work on a project and leave them there. He knows, and logic will certainly tell you, that if you leave a buffet laying in your room, eventually you will attract guests. :eek: However, something (the ADHD, being distracted, thinking it's not his job) keeps him from taking it back to the kitchen. I can't see the logic of leaving dirty dishes in your room, it's an illogical decision. The dishes are even more so, more than laundry not in the basket or trash laying on the computer desk, as the dirty dishes will attract wildlife and dirty dishes smell and depending on the food... it's not the same thing as having a sock under your bed for two months.

I'm sure that if I were more awake :surfweb: ;) I could come up with plenty of other things. But you get the idea. I don't buy into some of the fictional oddities that the mainstream media uses- cheese poofs on a toothpick- but I don't think it's fair to say that the ASD crowd uses logic 100% of the time, either, and that anything else is purely a social standard.

[mechurchlady]

:surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :hug:
Waits for Becky to get her java fix and hug.

Actually I think that the OCD, ADHD, OCD, HSC, SID, etc. are separate form neurovariations. I have neurovariations but am not autistic. I think differently from others but not as bad as if I were autistic. Those neurovariations are separate from my SID and moms HSC. A person with cancer and OCD does considers them two separate things not that cancer causes OCD or vice versus.

Your kids have the logical neurovariation brain. Then added was other things that are separate from the neurovariant brain. I know I should not do stuff like cuss at bots as that is socially wrong and illogical as bots are not going to respond. Sensory and other issues send me into the not fair bug rage and over rides the social and logical state of mind. The logical and social for different reasons say that changing clothes is good for a person and stinky old clothes is bad. The depressed and overwhelmed quirks overrule the social and logical states of mind and say that I am to tired, do not care or what ever. Menawhile sensory loves the feel of that warm snug soft and comfty shirt and sweatshirt. Do I have to take them warm clothes off? I am so comfty overrules the logical and social that are demanding I change clothes.

I hope that explains things, Becky.

Big hugs and chocolates and one fat old lady free with paid shipping.
Trade you one mother for 20 kids. It only took 5 tries to explain who was on the phone, the diabetes testing equipment provider, and then have her have fits for me being to aggressive then a story from her about companies which is not fact based and stupid and now she is snitty.
Will throw in 10 kilos of chocolates and 20 gallons of coffee.

[bookwormde]

Glove logic, the cold is less uncomfortable that the full gloves.

Car logic, why should I sit where I am less comfortable; cure, show him pictures of the nature of injuries that occur when not wearing the shoulder belt.

Dishes, ants are “fun”, mind has “moved on” so chips are not in the picture. Food smell and visitors do not bother him. It comes down to 2 factors, things that bother you do not bother him and the linear factory process of “cleaning up” is not a “natural thing” so it takes “buying into it” as a logical skill which has to be taught in detail with practical experience that have an impact.

I know I am not being very helpful but my aspie sarcasm has to come out occasionally.

bookwormde

[Schmeck]

Now I get it - "not logical" means I don't want to do it because I don't like it. Everyone has this sense of logic, some people are just more stubborn than others and think that their logic is the only logic out there that makes sense.

I mean it - everyone uses this sense of logic. But when you can't realize that your logic isn't the do-all end-all of logic, then you have conflict. What step of self-realization was it? Something about side-by-side play turning into actually playing together, usually happens around the preschool timeframe?

Anyways, we all use logic to get through our day, just that different stuff seems logical to me, while other stuff seems logical to my husband, my daughter, my mother, etc. While one child with Asperger's may have to sit in one certain spot in the car, another child with Asperger's may not give one hoot about where he sits. Different logic for different people.

To correct certain behaviors (like leaving dirty dishes out - can actually cause some major damage to the home if done enough - check under the carpets for larvae) setting up consequences can create success. As in, no food in the rooms if you can't remember to clean up the dishes. We got to a point where we had to contain all food in one room of the house. No one was allowed to eat anywhere except the kitchen. The logic behind that was that no one was good at cleaning up, and the larvae under the carpet were getting rambuncious... :scared1: If the kids protest, don't buy anything but meal food - no snacks, no candy, etc. They won't starve in one week, and the point will get across.

[mechurchlady]

Not logical means that something does not fit the logic of the individual or entity. It is illogical to put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher then put then in the cabinets without turning on the dishwasher. To me it is illogical to do one thing at a time like go get the mail instead of going to the bathroom, take a load of trash out, rotate the laundry, get the newspaper, and then get the mail. Mother is the most illogical person I think.

To a kid it is illogical to assume that curly fries are the same as regular fries. To a kid it is illogical to lay on a bed when the floor is more comfortable.
To a kid it is illogical to wear clothes in a certain way as why do we have to have our clothes on right side out if it is more comfortable inside out.

For me it is illogical for me, a leftie, to have to have the table setting the wrong way.

The problem with the kids is that there is an internal pecking order. Imagine a group of men in a person's brain. The first is logic which says wear gloves. The second is social dude saying that society says to wear gloves. The peer dude says the person is a freak for not wearing gloves in winter. Then comes the giant sensory dude and he pummels the other dudes into submission. "No gloves" he screams in a voice that drowns out all the other voices. The brain is wracked with internal conflict. The brain knows the body is being cold and thus affected by Sensory Dude but he is too big and strong to be stopped so the brain takes actions like not going out in the cold, avoiding going places and if all else fails fingerless gloves.

Sorry for the story but that is how I think and see my brain.
Big hugs and chocloates
Laurie

[bookwormde]

It is a real “leap” for NTs to learn the skill of separating themselves from their innate social wiring, most can never do it. Most NT’s “logic” is always significantly distorted by their social mind, and general experience. “Stubborn” has a major social content in it, spectrum individuals are insistent in their opinions until they can be demonstrated the inaccuracy in their logic.

Different spectrum individuals certainly will have different logic based on their knowledge and experience; it is just not (or to a greatly lesser degree) distorted by social conventions.

In the end it really comes down to “getting it” (the nature of the autistic mind), many people do not want to “get it” because it challenges what they assume is standard existence and that is very scary, in some cases the innate social structure is just too engrained either by genetics or traumatic conditioning for the intellectual process and capabilities to overcome it, and some people just do not care to consider the possibility of another way of “existence”. In any case this is fine as long as they do not try to dictate their social standards on others.

For those who are struggling with this difficult concept generally the journey comes in small “got it” moments until enough of these come together to crate a broader understanding of a the autistic experience. About all you can do to speed this up is to be open minded and read as many current clinical works and attend presentations by world renowned and respected clinicians.

For educators, parents, clinicians and caregivers once this understanding is gained it has been my observation that their ability to “help” spectrum individuals obtain the adaptive skills to exist in the innately discriminatory NT social world grows exponentially, and the anxiety based damage that they do to spectrum individuals by trying to force social standards on them diminishes to almost zero.

Scmeck,

The “behavior modification model” that you are putting forward has in study after study been shown to be only effective on a very specific behavior and only while the consequences are reinforced for spectrum individuals and generalization to other situations is virtually non existent, that is why many clinicians are moving to the logic/skill based approach. For behaviors that are initially dangerous or damaging it is sometimes needed but for all other situation is becoming antiquated.

With the rate of progress of clinical understanding of the Autism spectrum, if you stay in the autism education field, in 10 years you will “look back” and wonder how many of your current assumptions could have existed. I am sure some of mine will be modified also.

bookwormde

[DisDreaminMom]

You all are getting way to deep here and throwing around too many acronyms for me to plow through without a second cup of coffee. I'll check back later when the caffeine has kicked in. :surfweb:

P.S. Is there anywhere else on the web with this many smart people? (Talking about ASD...)

[Cheshire Figment]

You all are getting way to deep here and throwing around too many acronyms for me to plow through without a second cup of coffee. I'll check back later when the caffeine has kicked in. :surfweb:

P.S. Is there anywhere else on the web with this many smart people? (Talking about ASD...)
Yes, the passworded Mensa Talk forums.

[bookwormde]

DisDreaminMom

If you are really looking for a place then with a lot of high IQs I will not recommend, but provide you with www.wrongplanet.net/

I will warn you up front it is heavily populated by aspies (including those formally diagnosed as on the spectrum).

For parents of children who do not “get it” completely yet you might want to avoid it as it may “scare the heck out of you”.

Members tend to be very direct (what a surprise for aspies)

There are lots who self adapted to only a limited percentage and there are lots of maladaptive manifestations discussed and otherwise apparent (not surprising since many grew up before the “modern era of autism”).

Many times the threads even give me a headache (I actually lost my PW a few month ago and have not gotten up the ambition to retrieve it).

As you might expect with a forum populated by high IQ spectrum individuals they often “talk past” each other.

While reasonable well moderated it is certainly the completely friendly place that disBoards is.

Again enter at your own risk.


If I ever use terminology that anyone has a question about I am happy to repeat the explanation for those who did not catch it in some of my earlier posts, just ask. With thousands of hours of studying the clinical works, studies and reports plus talking with clinicians I guess is slip into clinical speak without realizing it.


BeckyScott

On the sensory logic thing I will give an example that might help.

If an individual has a sensory variation for temperature sensitivity (is overly sensitive) and picks up a hammer that has been lying in the sun and feels the heat and drops it, that is perfectly logical, even if it falls and breaks his/her foot, just as it would be for a NT if it actually was hot enough to burn them. It is certainly not desirable but it is “logical” based on the sensory input.


bookwormde

[mechurchlady]

:surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb:

Becky I try to put it in layman's terms and explain how it works for me. I now wonder if I am not an aspie because I understand bookwormde so much and so well. I wonder because there are high functioning and the ones with major challenges facing them. 51 years old means that I adapted without knowing what was possibly wrong with me or my mother who is a social pariah in some ways.

Becky have some more coffee and just go with the flow and let it sink in. You are dealing not with an austistic child but a child who has other factors such as religion, culture, gender, and other quirks like OCD, ADD, ODD, SID, HSD, and on and on. Right now I need to go outside but it is too cold. The logic says I need to do some stuff soon even if it rains but the sensory and the body in general are happy snug and warm in bed at the computer. I am a mess because of them battles.

Hugs Becky and gives her more coffee. Becky is it true that your idea of a WDW vacation is a coffee around the world tour at Epcot? :lmao:

:hug: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :hug:

[DisDreaminMom]

Cheshire Figment, my mother made me do MENSA testing when I was little but anything with numbers freaks me out. (I got a perfect score on the verbal part of the SAT and failed the math part). My sister was the triple threat kind-she could do anything they put in front of her, but my I.Q. is higher. I think I got the E.Q. (emotional quotient, it was popular a while ago, and lost cache' for some reason- most likely because it's crap). I grew up with a lot of the "wasted talent" lectures. MENSA people are intimidating to me. Not because they are smarter than I am, but because they think they are:lmao:

I think I'm more along the lines of Temple Grandin. I totally get her logic. Wanna know what's the deal with your horse, dog, cat, or combination thereof? I'm your gal. I was forced to take Calculus and Trigonometry in college to graduate and I never got a single problem right without the use of a calculator (and even then...). The Indian-retired-IBM-computer -whiz professor gave me a B in both classes because I got the logic of the problems but the "numbers got me all confused".

Had a really good time this afternoon playing an old National Geographical Society game with my 6 year old. My mom's friend was a geography teacher that helped design the game and gave them to my son yesterday (he likes maps a lot- not as much as France itself, but a close second). I modified the game and made him pick a picture game card and guess first and then read the location and find it on the world map. He's spitting out "Indonesia" and "Czechoslovakia", etc. And he knew where every place was, even the tiny little Asian countries. So behavior challenges aside, I totally pick my kid just for the fact that he doesn't like Pokeman.

My problem with other Aspie or brainy chat rooms? At a certain point it becomes a pissing contest. I'd rather talk to the kids, dogs, or you guys. Mechurchlady, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. I'll give some to you.

Bookwormde, I think if I took the time to read more than my Tony Attwood or the other garbage at the library, then I would "get it" more, but I don't want to lose my perspective on the fact that my kid has the best chance of being happy and productive if I help him live in "our" world, not "his". Becky is really good at hitting this point to me. She's a sharp one, that Becky.

My last question- isn't logic all subjective anyway? I mean, even the schizophrenic guy has a certain logic to his actions when he kills the baby because it spoke with the voice of Satan. I'm just saying that unless you're a dyed in the wool Communist or Dr. Spock, then logic is whatever an individual wants it to be unless all the individuals are brainwashed into thinking group-think. (yep, everyone hated me in Psych class, too!). So this idea of Aspie logic being different than NT logic to me is a moot point. Human A's logic will most likely be different than Human B's logic unless both are taught the consequences of the behavior (i.e. laws that groups of people follow- and within that group, there will always be some people who do not follow the "rules"). It's an age old question. And who's logic is better? Who determines that? I'll tell you who- it's the guy that wins the war. :hippie:

[mechurchlady]

I am in a self destructive negative mood so I do not give myself credit as I have been called a failure all my life and am an outcast even in my own church.

The thing with logic and neurovariants is that the neurovariant relies mostly on logic instead of other factors like peer pressure and social skills. Normally a kid will move to a new seat in the car because mom said so. The neurovariant will not move as it is illogical to move to a possibly worse seat and illogical to move from a familiar safe spot. Mom is the driver and she is going to be very safe to sit behind as she will not want to get into an accident. That is logical.

Everyone has their own set of rules for logic but how much logic you use is the problem for neurovariants. Also do not stop with Tony ATwood but read everything else out there like Temple Grandin as there are many opinions and some great things out there to read about and some are old school or stupid like the vaccine theory that was based on a study of a dozen kids. Now that is illogical.

Hugs and chocolates
Laurie

[BeckyScott]

:surfweb: Oh man, way too much information this morning. Starting with Schmeck and that larvae-under-the-carpet thing, :scared: and my brain just fell out and rolled to the corner of the living room. (old house, uneven floors) ;)

I think I'm going to spend the next day or two driving my kid(s) crazy, and asking them "why?" every time they do something, just to see what they tell me. My own personal science experiment in logic. I've done it before with some success. Just a couple of weeks ago DS's teacher told me he'd been flapping a lot more than usual, a whole lot more. And while she didn't expect me to "fix" it (as if) but she wanted me to know. I asked DS if he knew why it was happening. And he told me, plain as day, that he was bored and when he is bored he starts thinking about other stuff, and when he thinks very hard, he flaps. Oh, okay. I guess that means he didn't think very much first semester :confused3 but I'll go along with that explanation. He's verbal enough he can usually explain himself, so long as he isn't having a tantrum or crying and is too far gone to talk clearly.

I had some other thoughts I was trying to put together, but it will need to wait. It's gotten jumbled up in my brain too much right now.

[Schmeck]

Becky, sorry about the larvae! I've found that explaining the consequences to my daughter (who could probably be diagnosed with Asperger's, but I find no need to have the diagnosis as she is functioning fine enough without it.) and showing how to solve a problem so it doesn't happen again makes sense to her.

I think asking the kids why they do something is absolutely the thing to do - I do it all day at work. Even ask your son how he felt before/during/after a tantrum (although I tend to think of/call them energy releases) and praise the positive things that he does during them and after. As long as he is not hurting himself or anyone else, focus on the need for the release and then focus afterwards on some alternative strategies if possible. I wish I could use some scenarios from work, but student confidentiality has me pretty limited in what I can share. Maybe after I retire I'll write my own book?

[bookwormde]

“I think asking the kids why they do something is absolutely the thing to do”

This is at the core of analyzing any situation with spectrum individuals (and NT also), and is a big piece that is missed by many who have or work with individuals on the spectrum. Even if you do not understand or do not agree with the “why” it gives tremendous insight into “where the persons mind is”. Making assumptions about the “why” in most cases leads to misdirections and missed opportunities.


There is a certain amount of detective work, which comes along with the asking of “why” and it works best when done in a detached non judgmental way.
bookwormde

[DisDreaminMom]

I think if more people asked "why" in everyday situations, life would be less frustrating. Some of my son's answers for "why" are just amazing. Like there is no way I could have ever thought of that amazing. Becky, your children will appreciate you asking until they hit the MANWALL and shut down (remember asking your boyfriend or husband, "What are you thinking?" and being stunned by "Nothing!" over and over?) If you caught "Kath & Kim" when Mya Rudolph plays the self-help guru, you make me think of how it would be to ask your kids why all the time in a calm non-judgmental way .

I happened to watch the funny CBS show with the Aspie in it last night. If anyone caught that episode, it was spot on. ("well played")

We have old house, crooked floors, too. No pencil finds a resting place unless it wedges itself on the leg of furniture. Rolling stone=no moss.

DS is sick with head/chest gunk today. Normal people would push through, but being "off" makes DS very agitated and unable to focus. Plus he has an aversion towards Kleenex and no one but a mother wants to deal with that. Did you read in AP story last week that proper way to blow nose is to NOT blow nose? So my snot snorting kid has been right all along...:rotfl2:

[BeckyScott]

DisDreamin, youngest DS won't blow his nose either. Hmmm. The only thing I've found that works at all is if it's real bad, we put him in the shower (as hot as he will put up with, which isn't very hot) and let 'er run.

And in our house, it's not pencils, because pencils disappear so if I see one I pick it up right away. It's those darn Magnetix balls. I don't think there's a room in the house without 3 or 4 of them rolled under the furniture. Whenever DS wants to play with his Coaster and can't find any balls, I can pull out a piece of furniture and find some for him.

Yesterday I had one of those days where you spend the whole day on the phone yet get nothing accomplished. (I know you all know what I mean) I was trying to set up an appt for oldest DS for a proper evaluation, and being influenced by Bookwormde, since there is suspected Aspergers, I want to take him someplace good and not to BillyBob The Psychiatrist Down The Street. :sad2: By the end of the day and after running my cell battery to nothing, this is what I got accomplished: I can get him into a local psych mid-March. And we will go, although that isn't going to be "good enough" for me. The two big hospitals in the state that I would consider qualified, one of them their intake person will call me back in 4 days and do the 20 questions. The other one I talked to the intake person and answered all the questions right ;) and she is sending paperwork which I have to fill out and send back before we can get an appt, and they are already booked into June. This whole thing also involved me calling and going to our local ped's office for referral purposes, and calling DS's service coordinator to see if there was anything she could do.

Plus we are trying to get FMLA put into place for if DH needs to stay home, and I had questions, and of course ended up on the phone with someone who I am pretty sure English is their second language. :mad: So that was fun.

I don't think most people "get" what a full-time job a special needs kid really is. And potentially two? Forget it. Except for you all. At least that's one thing we can all agree on. ;) Familiarity with red tape and "gatekeepers" and using all the right acronyms to get what you need. DH comes to IEP meetings and he is completely lost, as we are all speaking a foreign language. :confused: I remember way back when DS was in First Steps and we had a family joke that you know you've crossed over the line when the word "proprioceptive" is part of your every-day vocabulary. :lmao:

[mechurchlady]

At least your "kid" cannot legally lock you out of the house and evict you, lol. She bruises easy since I was a kid so that would be nice to show the police.

I do not know the IEP lingo as my kid dropped out of high school in the 1940's but I am pretty familiar with the rest of the lingo. Good luck on the diagnosis and big hugs and chocolates and the megasized Becky cup of coffee. :surfweb: :hug:

[DisDreaminMom]

Ouch, Mechurchlady, you win on that one. I didn't even think of the ramifications of your situation. How about a tightrope to go with those fragile nerves? I feel for you even more. But surely you have power of attorney over her, right? I mean, it doesn't sound like proving her to be incompetent would be too much of a stretch. If you haven't talked to a good lawyer, then maybe keeping a journal of her behavior is a good idea (and video tape of her tantrums would be a huge help to you in case anything "bad" ever happened). Cover your a*#@ is your motto in this situation. Especially if she gets paranoid. I don't know much about your situation, but I do hope you have the help you need. I think someone with knowledge of your state laws and the elderly could help you more. I worry about you... :sad1:

Becky, I got so mad at the Magnetix balls all over the house that they all "magically" disappeared. Why, where could they be? Out of sight is out of mind.

I give DS loratidine (Claritin) when he first gets sniffles and keep him on it until it's over. Then I keep the humidifier going. Apparently the way to stave off sinus infections is to not blow nose (it forces infection into sinuses), use a decongestant, and crank up the humidity. Funny to read the decongestant part, because I started doing that a few years ago to keep DS and DD from getting asthma flare-ups after chest colds. Turns out my way is the good way. And I can't stand Benadryl. It makes people a little cukoo. We don't need any of that. Loratidine seems to just do it's job and not play around with the chemistry.

Just one last thought; my kid might get upset, but he's no chimpanzee. Can you imagine keeping an animal whose primary battle instinct is to chew off the testicles, face, hands and feet of his "opponent"? "He's not even being mean, he's just being a chimp." is what the animal expert said on the news. We've come a long way, baby.:eek:

[mechurchlady]

I love my mother very much though I spent most of my life avoiding her. She is a neurovariant who never got diagnosed or helped. Can you imagine a life where you are hypersensitive and think you have ESP. The ability to read people in detail and know when they are lying or hurting. To not have a way to vent your anger, pain or fustrations other than the way a child does in tantrums, cussing and fits. To be slapped as a kid for being stubborn and willful. For not having people help her to be socially adept. Being told all her life she is stupid and cannot do things.

I feel sorry for her and would never institutionalize her or get power of attorney or in any way take away her freedoms and rightss. She did not ask to be born different and needs love and compassion.

[BeckyScott]

We used Claritin for a long time, but it started to become ineffective just because he'd taken it for so long. So now we are on Zyrtec. I noticed last week that Walgreens had finally made their own store-brand of Zyrtec, which is the first I've found. It's still expensive, though, $10 a box instead of $14, for a dozen chewables. And he's on Singulair too. I don't know how much good either one of them really do.

Benedryl always made me sleepy. However, we've found nothing that makes DS sleepy. Not allergy meds, not even melatonin or even Clonidine or even whatever-it-was that they gave him to make him relax before they did the dental surgery (valium maybe?). Sitting up on the gurney yapping away at anyone who would listen.

ChurchLady, I don't think DisDreamin meant to offend. Lots of times, you know, as people age, even if they've never had any issues at all, they eventually need someone to do a Power Of Attorney for them. Just because they're older and get confused easier or maybe don't have a good understanding of what's going on. My MIL, now I can't say she was ever 100% "normal" if you KWIM, :rolleyes1 she's 80 now and DH's family has had several conversations about what to do. She lives alone (but in a retirement village) and will sometimes tell us stories of things that have happened during the week that really worry us. She outright refuses to move to someplace more supervised, but she really doesn't need to live alone. Your mom does have you there, at least, which is good, you're able to keep an eye on her meds and her cooking and people calling the house. It's just that if something should happen where she couldn't handle stuff anymore, and it was all in her name, you could really have a problem. Shoot, my DH can't even call about our phone bill because it's in my name, they won't talk to him.

[mechurchlady]

DisDreaminMom did not offend me but you do not understand how I feel. We fight for the rights of the disabled and educate people on disabilities and talk about dignity and wanting respect despite having limitations. There is nothing wrong with my mother mentally other than her birth defects or what ever that make her highly sensitive and HSD/HSC and SID/SPD.

I feel, that she could live alone without me. She only needs a few adaptations to the house and someone to clean and shop. If I were her I would not need anyone and would use city transport to go shopping or get me a powerchair or something.

How dare I deny a disable person their freedom. Would you tell bookwormde that you are doing a power of attorney on him or how about talking hands or dclfun/kathy. Mom is a normal person who just needs the world to shut up, calm down and not overwhelm her. Left on her own she does little things like clean the floor and make lunch. She even once wrote a check.

Not offended but at the same time just overwhelmed and crying tired of having to deal wth a neurovariant mother who is like my child and especially when I have my problems. I will fight for kids to be properly tested and labeled and educated and helped because my mom is what they could end up like.

Hug your children and enjoy the golden moments no matter how few. I never had kids and having mom is enough to make anyone want 10 kids. All my life she was so kid like. Saying things like roasty beef is normal and loving plushies and getting upset if they are hurt is normal. No power of attorney or court orders or psychiatrists. She will stay in the cracks of life hidden in her dark little world like a lost child. I lvoe her so much.

hugs and choclates and coffee and dole whips
Laurie :hug: :cheer2: :grouphug: :cheer2: :yay: :dance3: :laughing: :hug:

[DisDreaminMom]

Mechurchlady, I don't think that you should institutionalize your mother. I think that everyone has rights and should live the way they want. My mom is agoraphobic and I know that no matter what, she should live out the end of her days in her house, no matter what I think of it. I know that you love your mom and work so very hard to care for her the best you can. I am sure that she is a wonderful, intelligent woman and it is heartbreaking that she did not have help she needed before you were even a twinkle in her eye.

That said, I wonder-compassionately- how you can be worried about her locking you out of the house and not being able to do anything about it but being upset when I offer a solution for this POSSIBLE outcome. Having a power of attorney does not take away her freedom in any way. What it means is that if she for some reason is incapacitated or unable to handle her affairs, then you would be able to make decisions for her ON HER BEHALF. What you are missing is that should she ever make a claim that you somehow hurt her OR she went to the Dr.'s office with a few bruises, then it is possible that your worst fears would be realized (also, if you were hurt or incapacitated for some reason.) The State could take protective custody of your mom and put her in a home and Medicare could use her house to pay for it if things are not set up legally to prevent this from happening.(Maybe they already are- I don't know??) This is a WORST CASE SCENARIO, but you are the one that brought it up, and so it must bother you. I don't think that arranging things so that you are BOTH protected is in anyway being dishonorable to your mom or you. This way you can control her care and legally ensure that she is left in her home, with in home assistance, and specific routines will not be interrupted.

My best friend's mom had a very bad head injury a few years ago, and she is "independent" but also doesn't realize that the roof is leaking or that there are dead mice in the kitchen. Her sense of smell is gone and she is deaf in one ear. She lives by herself with her dog and cats and knows what day it is, who the president is, etc. But she also becomes unglued when the neighbors do something she thinks is "bad" and has had the police called on her before for being threatening. She also is a very productive person and a nice lady when she's in her comfort zone. She does her own shopping, takes care of horses, etc. but she can have some bad days and then people start calling my friend. My BF has had to get POA because her mom forgot to pay bills and taxes and didn't get the mail for two months and had utilities turned off, etc.She let's her mom "be", but she is also the safety net should something happen. Her mom was upset about it at first, but also didn't want somebody other than her daughter making her care decisions, like taking away her animals, etc. And when she talked to a lawyer about it, she didn't say "My mom is a wack job and unable to care for herself". She just explained that her mother needed more help SOMETIMES and she wanted to be sure that she was the one to help should anything happen. It also helps protect against "predators" who take advantage of people like her mom. This way she can't give the house away to some lady she meets in the grocery store or something. It's like having a Living Will and a Will. It just makes the bad times a little less bad.

That's all. I am dropping the subject.


My mom sent DS four pink dress shirts. He was so happy to have pink BOY shirts that he wore every single one yesterday. He dressed himself this morning, too. My mom wears a "uniform" everyday, and now DS has his pink shirt uniform, too. That's love. Sending the kid pink shirts. Does this mean he will dress himself every morning???:confused3

[mechurchlady]

As for the pink shirts go for it. If he will dress himself in pink shirt then you have made a giant step forward in the self dressing part of life. Eventually he might go for blue shirts but at least he dressed himself. CONGRATULATIONS. Break out the coffee, dole whips and chocolates with hot fudge sundaes. CONGRATULATIONS.

Don't worry about mom actually evicting me. She needs me to pay bills, provide for her needs and care for her. She would not move to Georgia during the housing boom so we could have a nice home that was clean and new and disabled friendly. It is her coping mechanism and more than once since high school she was moving and leaving me and dad. Had a date and that passed. She would threaten to get out of the car and more than once opened the door.

Once she was mad so she said she was taking the bus home from the Downey Mall. I waited for her to go into the mall then drove home and told dad that she done pushed one too many buttons and was at the mall without me. He said I wrong to leave her there but she deserved it, lol.:lmao: :lmao: Normally neurovariants would stim, scream, bite, kick and have fits but my mom's coping mechanism is passive aggressive behavior like telling her brat that the person at the door is the cops coming to take the brat away or threatening to get out of a moving car.

A little story for you all to laugh.
I was taking mom somewhere and I noticed she was hiking her dress up. I am trying to drive while more and more leg showed:cheer2: :grouphug: . It seems she forgot her half slip and was looking for it. lol

Yopu are right that I need to start taking legal action to protect the house and cemetary plots and her plushies, lol. It is mom's passive aggressive genes coming out in me I guess. Inside I know God provides but honestly I also do sort of think sometimes what I would do without her. Hugs to some very nice moms here and thanks for helping me. Remeber to love your kids because without your love they could end up like my mom and me.

[PrincessMom4]

How do you handle the challenges of aspies?? I have a child that has gone through a variety of tests (connor's form, DSV, etc) and we're still waiting for a proper diagnosis. The labelled her with ODD and ADHD, but to me she might be either Autistic or Asperger. Yes I know I was in here a while ago still don't have a proper diagnosis. I still think she is aspie. How do you all handle the people staring at you when your child throws a meltdown in public?

[mechurchlady]

PrincessMom4 you deserve lots of hugs and chocolates.

If a child has a problem with social skills or lack of them then they may seem ODD or ADD. There is a need to get to the root of the behavior. Food allergies and autism can make a child seem ODD but really the child is affected by the allergy or cannot deal with issues because of the autism. You need to take each wrong thing and analyze why the child does what it does.

I thought mom and I were ODD for a while but then realized she is hypersensitive and SID while I am hypersensitive to a way lesser degree and SID. She has her ODD moments and she will not eat without asking what is on the plate. Our house is trashed and not fit to live in because of those hissy fits and her ODD like attitude which really was her being over sensitive and having no coping mechanisms for when she was overloaded.

Read the threads and you see how parents deal with strangers. They focus on their child because taking time to talk to strangers means the meltdown lasts longer. I tell people to ignore what others think as they have not walked in your shoes. I am a neurovariant but not aspie and can tell you that it is hard being different from others so I try hard not to judge people nowadays. I walked in my shoes for a long time and know that what I see may not be what I judge to be going on.

Big hugs and chocolates for you, PrincessMom4:cloud9: :hug:
I will leave lots of coffee for Becky.:surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb:
Laurie:cheer2: :grouphug: :hug:

[DisDreaminMom]

You can't worry about the people staring at your when your kids throws down in a public place. I have been HIGHLY embarrassed by my DS on several occasions. I've had the kind of day where I look at DH after everyone goes to bed and say, "I don't think I can handle this! I can't do this gracefully and I hate people looking at me". I think you just try to do what you and your child need to do and let it go. It's easy to feel like people are judging you, but maybe they are sympathetic or thinking how lucky they think you are...The grass is often greener and you don't know how brown someone else's grass is!

Here is the awkward part of Aspie kid. We are my mom's house yesterday for a visit. DS is now obsessed with Brass instruments. Wants a French Horn. (Cause it's french!). My dad passed away two years ago in April. As you may have guessed, my mom is somewhere on the spectrum, so she does not deal with emotion as a normal person. When my dad died suddenly of a heart attack on a Saturday, the first person she went to see on Monday was her stock broker (and dragged my sister and I with her). Dad was a trumpet player in a band for many years, so kids have seen many brass instruments in her house. DS called Grandma and asked her if he could come see her instruments.

So we drive an hour to see her. Possible bonding experience, right? (She does not hug, rarely shows affection, is very serious, is only interested in them if they ask about her). This is fine by my Aspie DS, but it took some heavy explaining for normal DD, because she thought Grandma didn't love her, based on how other grandparents act. Mom does not talk about my father with anyone, unless it gets her something (is that mean? I don't mean it to be, but she drops his name all the time to get people to do what she wants).

So always questioning DS says in the middle of lunch, "Where IS Grandpa?" My mom says, "Well, he died." DS says, "How did he die?" "His heart stopped.", says Mom. "Why does that make you die?", says DS. "It just does.", says Mom.

OOOOKKKAAAAYYYYYY. Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts.:confused3

Anyway, mom gets out dad's glorious trumpet after letting DS play with an old army bugle. She takes it out of case, turns bright red, shuts case and that's the end of it. :headache:

I just don't get it. So I guess my only real job is to help DS learn to not end up like my mother...And the worst part is, my dad would have gotten the biggest kick out of DS taking an interest in his trumpet. He would have loved to share his passion with my son.

[mechurchlady]

Hugs tight DisneyMom :hug: :hug: :hug:

Your mother is another example of the neurovariants who never got the early intervention. Your mom never hugged so she never got the love that a hugger got and her attributes would have made her an outsider. Bless your father for loving her. My mom never kissed me that I can remember since I was 5 and no hugs that I can remember or anything. She loves me dearly but no touching and I need that so much.

That is why I am here, I think, to stop kids from growing up like our moms and ourselves. You got a great kid there and hopefully he will keep up his love of music. The apple does not fall far from the tree and in this case maybe he will be like his grandfather.

[BeckyScott]

Gee it's too bad there aren't any other "French" instruments. ;) Preferably quiet ones, of course. My DH played French horn in high school, it's apparantly a chick magnet, you might wanna be careful. :love:

We're having big fun now. Getting oldest DS's eval lined up, I received a packet of information to fill out and send back. Huge amounts of information. The fun part is, part of it they sent me a blank family tree to fill out. I've never looked too hard, and probably for good reason. The tree does branch, at least, we're not total hillbillies. :confused3 But the further you look, the odder you find.

I think it's most strange, though, that while I was told plenty of info about medical conditions, apparantly nobody nowhere had any mental health conditions, or behavioral problems or learning problems. And everyone knew why I was asking. And I don't think it's really true, I just think that nobody talked about it. I think the family tree is planted very close to the River Denial, if you kwim. I respect that people have a right to their own business, but there are times when it is best to be honest. I remember when youngest DS was first diagnosed, there was some discussion (read: denial) about which "side" such a thing would have come from. UGH!

I'd say there's a clinic about to get more information than they wanted. ;)

Princess, generally I ignore everyone. I just keep talking to DS, as calmly as possible, so that the starer knows I am trying to handle the situation. Every now and then if I'm in a really grumpy mood, I might say something. If you are stumped, there are business cards you can buy or make your own like http://www.autismcards.com/autism-cards.html

[Schmeck]

Becky, I just had the same conversation with my Mom! I had mentioned that older DD could most likely be tagged with an Asperger's syndrome label, if I had chosen to push in that direction. She certainly has many of the tendencies. My mother took a head-first plunge into the River Denial, even when she pointed out that I was the same way as a child, LOL! I think it runs through my dad's family, BTW.

[mechurchlady]

Same with my family Becky, they do not see all the quirks that I have seen. I was raised by my grandmother and spent a lot of time hearing stories that only mom and I got to hear. What family wants to talk about Uncle Charlie who was a bit not normal. Also what is abnormal may be normal for a family.

I see the coffee worked, hugs for Becky.:surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb:

Thanks for the memories and the help, momma is changing bit by bit each day thought not much I see overall changes.:hug: :grouphug:
Bye Bye
hugs
Laurie

[DisDreaminMom]

Here ya go, Mechurchlady, from one unhugged kid to another:hug: Ask me how many boyfriends I had in school, trying to get hugs and approval:sad2: Thank God I met my husband. I could see a completely different outcome had he not come along. (Can you say, natural Octomom?)

Becky, I know all about the five pound packet. The first one that we got scared the hell out of me, but I think its' to give the interns something to do:rotfl: . It's so much to process. They don't want to know things that I would consider important and they want to know stuff that to me is not, but I guess that's why I'm not a medical professional.

Speaking of family trees, my favorite babysitter in Florida had a strange one. Her parents got divorced when she was a baby and her mother married her father's father. Her little half-sister was her aunt. Her Maternal Grandmother married her Paternal Grandfather's brother. I think a few cousins married, too. She tells a very funny story about how when she was a Senior in HS, she was supposed to do a class project Family Tree. She asks the teacher to give her an alternate assignment, which he refuses. She says she'll have to fail the class then. He asks what's so bad about her family that she can't do project like everybody else. "My family tree has no fork", she says. Classic. She got an alternate assignment.:rolleyes1 Have you ever heard that song "I'm my own grandpa"? I sing it her, lovingly, of course.

My mom WILL NOT talk about her childhood. It's that bad. We don't even ask. According to my Aunt, it was pretty awful.

Hey, not to brag, cause I'm not, but I just called Cast Member line (I work at TDS) and I was able to get a few nights at the new Treehouse Villas in June right when they first open. I can't believe that they even had them available. I'm driving down with my kids and meeting my aunt and uncle. They are both cancer survivors and never been to Disney anything. In fact, my aunt (my mother's younger sister) just went to the circus for the first time last week (she's almost 60). After her cancer, she got a new lease on life and decided to do all the stuff she never even thought of doing before. I'm so excited. My uncle has muscle weakness problems from his cancer, so I got a HC unit. This way, DS won't freak out about the stairs (still a big fear for him, but not enough for me to feel justified getting a HC unit for it alone).

I'm very excited. I just needed something to be happy about and this was it (it'll get me through for a long time!).

You all are the best.:grouphug:

[C&G'sMama]

I'm not sure DS is going to make it past K. :scared1: He didn't do his homework over break. So we are cathing up tonight. DP was smart and went to a PTA meeting. I have him in the kitchen while I'm cleaning. Although I need a sanity break. My house is a wreck, we have a friend's daughters coming over tomorrow and Thursday while she has meetings. And I'm pulling my hair out with homework!!!!! For Kindergarten!!!! What are we going to do as he gets older?

I'm going to go insane.

Sorry, just had to vent. You people get it. Although I feel like the worst mother in the world as I get impatient and yell. But we've been at this for over an hour and have made nary a dent. (we got home late tonight because of chess). I guess this is one of those positives as far as him not needing as much sleep. :goodvibes

Thank you for letting me vent. I feel calmer and can go back to the kitchen.

[mechurchlady]

C&G'sMama you get a ton of hugs from me.

Did you have to mention kitchen? Ooh perish the thought of going in there right now. I hope things get better soon.

Hugs and chocolates:hug: :cheer2: :grouphug:
Laurie

Do I have to go into the kitchen? Please not that!:laundy:

Update
We use plasticware and paper goods to save me doing dishes. We are out so where are my everyday plates? Top shelf in a jumble and leaning toward the edge about to fall. I had to go to the garage and get the step ladder then retrieve the plates which are dirty. I had a slight lapse up there and nearly fell off but we had a great dinner except now mom hates beans. I told you I did not want to go into the kitchen. I will trade you Calvin for 5 kids any day.

[bookwormde]

C&G’s Mama,

It is probably time to meet with your DS’s teacher about the “homework situation”. Since homework at its base level is not logical (why can they not just do this at school), the nature of the homework is typically not designed for our children and all the EF issues, accommodations are appropriate even in K. Generally the first level is to get an agreement to limit the amount of time that is to be spent on homework even if all the work is not done it is “finished”. Second level is to exclude the items that are anxiety generating (both for you and your child) since this is just doing damage with little benefit and is “poisoning” the learning experience. The third stage (where we are) is to adopt a complete work that is appropriate in style and content, can be completed without significant rise in anxiety and has educational benefits.

If you are stressed out imagine how your child is feeling.

Many leading clinicians have come to the conclusion that to a great extent the cost/benefit analysis of homework for spectrum children is so poor that it has little or negative value unless major accommodations are developed.

There is one benefit (side effect) to continuing to do the full and unmodified homework program, it will often turn an aspie into a fully diagnosable HFA or Aspergers child with high levels of anxiety and associated manifestations (typically this occurs along with the rise in social complexity that happens in elementary school).

bookwormde

[C&G'sMama]

Bookewormde,

Thank you. I PM'd you.

The last thing we want to do is damage is him. We're trying.

[bookwormde]

All we can do is our “Best”, there are lots of things I look back on and say, “what was I thinking”, but then I remember that I was doing the best that I could with the information and support that was available at the time. I would guess that if I knew all that I know now from day 1 and all the supports that are available now were then that my DS may not have qualified for a formal diagnosis.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

C&G, oh I know what you mean. I think they give homework in kg to get the kids into a "routine", to get them used to the concept.

I have to sit with the kids, individually, and take them thru their homework. There is very little they will do independently. Both are very easily distracted. Oldest DS is doing multi-step problems and can't remember the multi-steps. Or he'll make "silly" mistakes, like he'll have a sheet with 10 subtraction problems, but on 2 of them for some reason he added instead. He gets frustrated because he can't figure out why he keeps doing stuff like that. Youngest DS has insanely large handwriting, so he needs to be reminded to write small and write nicely. I am trying to get oldest DS to be able to do work on his own, I'll get up for a minute here and there, I can't follow him around his entire life supervising work! They can't both sit there at the same time because they only distract each other. I usually have one do their reading time while I work with the other one, then we trade out

You might also want to ask the teacher what is "okay" for you to help with. For example, can DS tell you what to write, but you write it? If DS talks you thru the math problem, can you do the writing? What exactly is okay with her, what happens in the classroom that way. I know I've seen the para's handwriting on much of DS's work. And if it's in your handwriting, my thought is that the teacher knows it's you, not like you're trying to disguise your work and say it was his, I'm *assuming* your handwriting doesn't look like his. Both kid's teachers will also let me modify things to a certain extent. Like with math, I can re-write the problems onto grid paper. Oldest DS is allowed to do his book report in Word instead of writing it on the sheet she gives out. That sort of thing, the assignment is still getting done, I just did a little adapting.

(edited to add: kg is actually a pretty good time to start this idea. I approached it with the teachers as "can we try it this way this time and see if it works?" and the idea that we what we were doing was figuring out what adaptations would be useful later. And if they worked, we could put them in the IEP, but we should try it out first to see. You'll find that most teachers don't care a bit if you've re-written the problems on a different sheet of paper, things like that, they are totally fine with that idea. They're usually happy that you're staying involved and trying.)

I don't know how much that helps, but you know it's only gonna get worse. If you think kg is bad, you oughta see 5th grade. :scared1:

[C&G'sMama]

Becky,

Just knowing you all "get it" helps.

I'm better to day. Bookwormde kicked me back into reality. You know, it's not that important. So I told DS this morning he only has to do tonight's homework. We'll do the other as he wants to. DP and I talked about it and again we are trying to fit him into the "norm". Whatever that is. We realize it won't get easier as he gets older and like Becky says you can't go to work with them when they're older. But we're trying to find that middle ground. I haven't tried doing the writing for him but even when he is keyboarding he gets mad. But if I sit down with him word for word he does okay.

Of course, he's not home yet, DP is with him at speech. That's another thing. These kids are in school from 9 'til 4:15 plus homework. And while we try not to overbook them he wants to do other stuff. So I think the other stuff has to come before homework. His spelling words this week? "the" "and" "it". That is so 3 years old. The teacher promised she'll give him harder words this week but this is the first week for spelling words so she's giving all of the kids the same words. Maybe he can learn to spell them in different languages.

Quick story. When he was having his testing a year ago, just before his 5th birthday. He was asked to come up with a different word for fast. His answer "Rapido, that's Spanish you know":rotfl:

[mechurchlady]

When you get off work you need to rest and have dinner before doing the bills for example. Your kid is overworked, exhausted and strung out. Make an agreement that he can do homework after dinner and before bedtime as long as it gets done.

Husband: Hi, hunny what is for dinner?
Wife: First mow the lawn, pay the bills, call the telephone company about the new line, take out the trash and then walk the dog. Dinner will be take out.

that is how it is for your kid. All day with stress of social life and teachers and whatever and you say "Hi hunny now get to work"

So let him have until after dinner to wind down and get settled down from the day then do homework. Wiating for Bookworm to show up as I remember him saying something to that effect about needing to decompress from school even for kids with no limitatons.

Big hugs and chocolates and sending you one ODD bratty mother
Laurie

[C&G'sMama]

Big hugs and chocolates and sending you one ODD bratty mother
Laurie

Thanks Church Lady, although your mom sounds lovely, I'll pass.

DS is eating pizza and watching Phineas and Ferb right now. He usually gets some down time. Last night was just hard because he was just back from vacation and had catching up to do. Tonight he only has to write some spelling words.

[BeckyScott]

C&G, spelling is the one area where we don't have to mess with homework. Yet. Yay! DS does have spelling words, of course, but he's staying ahead of the curve enough that I can say, it's the one subject where he doesn't need to study. You take your blessings where you can find them. ;)

I remember we had really silly spelling words like that, too, DH and I used to just laugh at the list. One week one of the words was "a". :lmao: This for a kid that could spell trapezoid. In first grade he made it the whole school year without missing a single spelling word, and to be completely honest, I never went over them with him at home. What we do now is I look over the list and pull out the two or three hardest words and double-check with him. I'm thinking at some point as the words get harder he might actually need to study them. So far, so good.

I say, fair enough. We have enough other problems, at least the spelling is good to go. But it's hard because that must just bore him to tears at school, to be going over that stuff when he sees it as so obvious. But our kids have enough problems fitting in. I will take what I can get, as far as a skill he has where he excels. We've always joked, sort of, that you know somebody has to edit dictionaries, and they probably make pretty good money at it. So there you go.

Your story reminds me of DS's testing last time. They showed him a photo of a bicycle and asked him what it was. He told them "a traditional form of Chinese transportation". :lmao: :lmao: It's very hard to bite your lip and not just bust out laughing when that happens.

[BeckyScott]

Me again.

We do have a problem with the timing of things in the evening.

I do understand that the kids need to de-compress, and that's what we usually do. They can mess around until dinner. Then we start homework at 6, bath-time starts at 7, and they are sent to bed at 8. If all goes right. We don't need a full hour for baths, so we can scoot them later if we need to.

But it's also problematic. Once they unwind, they don't want to wind again. Their obsessions with computers and games, and they don't want to walk away from those. Even with a very regular schedule and lots of warning.

This is also "assuming" there is nothing else going on in the afternoon or evening. Which probably 2 days a week, we do have something else going on. Since DH isn't home in the evenings, if I have someplace I need to go, they have to go with. And them taking homework along to do doesn't work. So there have been times when they had to do homework as soon as they got home. I have several friends who are horrified that I don't have the kids do homework as soon as they get home, and I let them play first. Nice to know you all understand. But we really don't do that much, as the kids have gotten older we've dropped things because there just wasn't time. Neither one of them get therapy outside of school. I don't know how you do it if your kid has extra therapy during the week, or if you live in a bigger city where it takes 1/2 hour to get home from school. Or if you do ballet and basketball and Boy Scouts.

[DisDreaminMom]

Are we living in a parallel universe? Because I did nothing but homework with kids from 4 o'clock until 7 o' clock and I wanted to shoot myself. Kids were so shot from it that they both volunteered to go to bed at 8 o'clock. I just can't imagine what it will be like in a few years.

Here is my thought on homework. I remember my DS being very upset with homework last year in Kindergarten. I am absolutely certain he was thinking, "I just sat in school all day looking and thinking about this crap and you want me to do MORE? Are you freaking kidding me? Who is that stupid that they can't remember this repetitive idiocy after being drilled incessantly all day? Good God, I need to clear my head. You people are nuts!!!"

(can you tell I didn't much like homework myself?) OK, I have done a semi-scientific experiment and I would like to report that children must be fed immediately before or possibly during homework. Also, at least 30 minutes before getting out homework must be free time for decompression. Any homework done after 6 o'clock will be wrong and possibly result in tears for both of you. So, optimal time for homework is between 4 and 6 but also before dinner. And if you have afterschool activities, then forget it. I try to keep our schedule as clear as possible. If we do have stuff to do then I bring snack or drive through.

Most days, DS doesn't even want to stop by grocery store after school. He just wants to go home and rest. I know he is exhausted from just trying to keep focused for that many hours. DH used to get upset that I won't run errands after school, but now we see difference between overstimulated DS and rested DS. On the days I have to work, DS is like a maniac by the time we pick him up from after-school program.

DH is very angry that teacher gave DS (with certain gender confused issues which get him teased by other boys) Debbie Allen for his Black history project. The teacher wants the kids to DRESS UP as their topic and be interviewed on a pretend "Oprah" show for all the school to see. So what do I do? Put him in drag in tights and a skirt or paint him in blackface (PC alert, not very sensitive-if you are offended, then get your sense of humor back, please)? Either way, my kid will get one more notch in the "freak" category. And DS can read "choreographer" but he could give a rats a@# what it means. Sheesh.

I'm with Becky- how do you parents with after school therapy and Dr's appointments do it? Aren't you just exhausted? I'm so sorry.

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...:rolleyes1

[bookwormde]

Before we have our current “agreement” on homework we had an agreement that any homework that we could not complete during the week was acceptable to do on the weekend and turn in on Monday, this is especially helpful since for some reason, therapies and group activities always seem to end up on Thursdays. We still do this with items which I think are educational priorities even though it is not “required”

Also I am often not home from work till late and with DS being an early riser we do all the math and science in the morning when he is fresh and can really enjoy it.

bookwormde

[KirstenB]

Are we living in a parallel universe? Because I did nothing but homework with kids from 4 o'clock until 7 o' clock and I wanted to shoot myself. Kids were so shot from it that they both volunteered to go to bed at 8 o'clock. I just can't imagine what it will be like in a few years.

Here is my thought on homework. I remember my DS being very upset with homework last year in Kindergarten. I am absolutely certain he was thinking, "I just sat in school all day looking and thinking about this crap and you want me to do MORE? Are you freaking kidding me? Who is that stupid that they can't remember this repetitive idiocy after being drilled incessantly all day? Good God, I need to clear my head. You people are nuts!!!"

(can you tell I didn't much like homework myself?) OK, I have done a semi-scientific experiment and I would like to report that children must be fed immediately before or possibly during homework. Also, at least 30 minutes before getting out homework must be free time for decompression. Any homework done after 6 o'clock will be wrong and possibly result in tears for both of you. So, optimal time for homework is between 4 and 6 but also before dinner. And if you have afterschool activities, then forget it. I try to keep our schedule as clear as possible. If we do have stuff to do then I bring snack or drive through.

Most days, DS doesn't even want to stop by grocery store after school. He just wants to go home and rest. I know he is exhausted from just trying to keep focused for that many hours. DH used to get upset that I won't run errands after school, but now we see difference between overstimulated DS and rested DS. On the days I have to work, DS is like a maniac by the time we pick him up from after-school program.

DH is very angry that teacher gave DS (with certain gender confused issues which get him teased by other boys) Debbie Allen for his Black history project. The teacher wants the kids to DRESS UP as their topic and be interviewed on a pretend "Oprah" show for all the school to see. So what do I do? Put him in drag in tights and a skirt or paint him in blackface (PC alert, not very sensitive-if you are offended, then get your sense of humor back, please)? Either way, my kid will get one more notch in the "freak" category. And DS can read "choreographer" but he could give a rats a@# what it means. Sheesh.

I'm with Becky- how do you parents with after school therapy and Dr's appointments do it? Aren't you just exhausted? I'm so sorry.

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...:rolleyes1

I'm with your dh!! Is it too late to find somebody cool for Black History Month? A woman assigned to a boy? Are you kidding me? See if he can be somebody like Stevie Wonder, or Scott Joplin or a farmer/inventor like George W. Carver. If he gets teased anyways, then the teacher def needs to give him a cool historical persona.

[bookwormde]

Dis DreamMom,

I would be on the phone with the teacher asking exactly what she had in mind with specific detail on how it is possible with “damaging” your child. Remind her that TOM is a big issue for our children so “swapping perspectives” may be a major stressor unless it is 100% scripted and “bought into”

We had a similar situation with an “explores” project. We ended up doing it on William and John Harrison with an impact study on their invention on James Cook. This allowed focus on facts and objects rather than the “person”. He was able to put on a 10-minute presentation virtually unassisted. If you can find a fact or accomplishment from this individual that your child can relate to and focus on that it might make the situation much easier than just a broader social commentary with the person.

bookwormde

[mechurchlady]

I come from a long line of Quakers, abolitionists and at least one conductor. Do not even go there with Debbie Allen. She good but there are a ton of Black Americans who have done great things and not just freedom fighting.

http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=9511284
Sojourner truth who did what most white women would dare not do, she sued and got her son out of slavery in Alabama. Women did not go to court and sue.

Arthur Ashe is another one I would choose for a boy.
Roy Campenella
Langston Hughes
Countee Cullen
Prince Hall
George Washington Carver
Dr. King

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/history/us/aframer/bios/invent.shtml
Dude invented traffic light and gas mask, another guy invented potato chips and one invented the blood bank.
For white people I would say John Woolman would be an excellent example of an abolitionist.

That teacher needs a good paddling and set down in a very long seminar on being politically correct and how to run a class. Boy the nerve of her asking boys to dress up like ladies and what do they learn from Debbie Allen. Why not talk about the poets and the abolitionist but no they get the watered down modern history.:teacher: :grouphug:


time for dole whips and chocolates and hugs, boy am I mad
hugs
Laurie:hug:

[C&G'sMama]

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...:rolleyes1

Did you respond with "It's too bad you don't like spending time with your children, start saving for therapy now?:goodvibes

This is a tough one. We try to keep a balance. Our kids gets out of school at 4:15. Monday DS goes to Chess at 4:30 and DD goes to Piano at 4:45 (we don't qualify for a bus as we live too close, like I'm going to let my 5 and 8 year old walk 1 4/10 miles down an industrial busy street or 1 1/2 miles through a residential neighborhood (or there are roughtly 20 recorded pedophile in a 2 mi radius)) but I digress. Thursdays at 5:00 DS has speech at a local college and Fridays they have gymnastics. So we tried to keep it out of the middle of the week. But now I have signed them up for swim lessons. DD on Tuesday and DS on Wed. It's hard because they want to do these things. So we try to balance it. If they ever get into anything real seriously that takes up a few days a week than they are going to have to choose if they stick with that and give other stuff up or give that up and stick with many things.

So as far as homework, we continue to try to balance.

[BeckyScott]

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...:rolleyes1

There's a reason why the doctors keep such a close eye on those prescriptions. :rotfl2:

That's one of the reasons why we stopped taekwondo. It was good for the gross motor and teaching discipline and all that. But. Two nights a week, and we were in 3 seperate classes, which meant we were there for almost 3 hours total. (I wouldn't have done it myself, except my class was the middle one and we were there anyway and not really time to leave, go home, and come back) I would just keep my fingers crossed that there wasn't any homework. And when they were younger it was fine, but as they got older now they have homework every night.

I even got to the point pretty quicky where Boy Scouts was more trouble than it was worth. I didn't think youngest DS was getting much out of it anyway, and he was the only special needs kid in the pack and I just felt very "under the microscope". There were several activities (most, actually) that needed to be adapted, read: I needed to figure out how to adapt them. Too much work for not enough benefit.

I think my "pity party" :sad1: is that DH works 2nd shift, so I am playing single parent for the whole thing. I don't know. Even on the rare occasions when he's home, homework is not his specialty. I have much more patience. He's good at processing baths and giving out meds. Supervising math homework, not so much. ;)

And it's such a hassle to get the kids packed up and into the car! I try to line up doctor appts and such directly after school so we don't go home first. The kids are way squirrelly at that point. But going home, then trying to get back out the door again... awful. DS's friend was over yesterday for a short while, and then we all had to leave, well the friend had his shoes on and was in our back yard in like 6 seconds. I thought "wow, that must be how kids act!" :lmao: In the meantime, oldest DS can't remember where he left his shoes, youngest DS can't find the sleeve of his coat, both of them are suddenly thirsty and asking me if we can stop at Arby's...

You know, when I was younger, Before Children, I was chronically early to everything. Almost annoyingly early. Like I'd be the one helping you set up the party because I got there 1/2 hour before you were expecting anyone. 15 minutes early for doctor appointments. The word "late" was just not in my vocabulary, I think it's a Virgo thing. Now, I have all our clocks set 10 minutes fast, and we're still late. DS's pull-out before school, on a daily basis we are peeling in sideways at 30 seconds before 8:00 and telling him to boogie.

[mechurchlady]

Becky, you should design rides for Disney. The Late for School Ride would have everyone being rushed into the cars and zoom away we go. The car has peeling rubber sound and it skids out a drive way and knocks over the mail box. Heading left up a street the car short cuts through a puddle while dodging traffic. Sharp left through a car wash and over a curbe then through an alley with a bunch of rats and cats then the ride ends with a sliding spin into the loading dock. Bell rings as people get off.:teacher:

What you think Becky, lol. With mom I am now always late and it is the stress and her that brings out the SID and other issues.

Big Hugs and snugs everyone
And coffee:surfweb: :surfweb: :surfweb:
Laurie

[DisDreaminMom]

I agree Mechurchlady and Bookwormde about the inappropriateness of Debbie Allen for a 1st grade boy. However, Principal, DS's teacher, and other bigwigs are AA (african american) and I am so scared of making them mad. They could make my life extremely difficult and I have seen how things go for boat rockers in the public school system. They sent home a booklet on BO that made my skin crawl. It talked about important AA's in politics and no mention of Condi Rice. What, she's stuck on Uncle Tom's Cabin? It's a very politically correct, PC town I live in. Who is feeling intimidated now? "Rational" left the building back during the election cycle. I call saying I don't want son being Debbie Allen. Why? Am I homophobic, sexist, racist, dancist, Fameist? :confused3

I figured it out. I'll give DS a cane and let him wear DD's ballet shoes and a criscross sweater and he can bang the floor and tell people to dance better. I showed him a video of a tribute show for Ms. Allen and DS thought it was interesting. Don't say I'm not a team player.

I got a call from the nurse that DS's ear hurt him (he sometimes picks his ear until it bleeds as a nervous habit) and she gave him Tylenol. He must have had a tough day, because he was really agitated when he got home. He listened to his favorite music website (orchestra instruments) and chased his sister for a while and now is passed out in a chair asleep. It's only 5:45pm. Now the bugger will be up until midnight. DS's ideal schedule would include Wednesdays off. He could be fine doing school Mon, Tues, sleep all day Wed, then Thurs and Fri just fine.

We must underestimate how hard it is for them to go through a normal day and keep it all together. I'll say it again. It bears repeating.

Hey mechurchlady, Imagineering called and the want the specs for the Late for School Ride. It look a little like the chase scene from Chicken Little.

[DisDreaminMom]

Parallel universe, part B. I used to be always early, then I was late, and now I am early 95% of time. It swung the other way when my DD started dressing and packing for herself. Otherwise we'd be hosed.

My DH is gone a lot, too. I get them up and out and do all homework, etc. He puts them to bed every once in a while. I feel bad asking him to do much. He's tired and his is not the safest job. Being tired is too much of a liability. I used to get miffed about it, but I like eating and paying bills, so I got over it. Plus, he's willing and able to be the heavy in our house (wait 'till your father gets home!) and that is worth so much these days. But when Daddy says GO TO SLEEP, they do. ;)

[mechurchlady]

We need to get you to DLR for a nice vacation away from the idiots. I would not care if they called me names as it is wrong to make a young boy play a girl part.

http://www.debbieallendanceacademy.com
That is her bit thing, helping youth dance. It is great but not like the dude who invented the potato chip or the dude who invented the gas mask.

I think the corkscrew roll is a nice touch, lol. We need a good name and make a park for disabled people and also include stuff to teach people what it is like to be disabled world. Sensoryland would have the Sound ride where noises go off and you get wapped up side the head or zapped. The dislexia games where you wear special glasses and try to win prizes but are not seeing right so you miss. the Architect Booth would be for dunking the dudes who just get by with ADA and do not go far enough.

Hugs and Chocolates
Laurie

[bookwormde]

Mechurchlady

Yes and we have to have a room where you are another planet where all innate social standards are not considered valid and you have to figure the “new ones” without this reference. And also where speech is totally literal, most input is high speed visual and strict logic prevails.

bookwormde

[C&G'sMama]

DDM,

I'm sorry to hear about your school. Me and DP are huge boat rockers. Not for the sake of rocking the boat, but we had some huge issues when DD was in 1st grade. There were 3 different classroom teachers plus several substitutes. Parents were never informed about what was going on including the false report cards our kids recieved (we parents figured that one when comparing our kids cards, because there were things that didn't make sense). There were also all kinds of procedures not being followed. We went to the district. They tried the race card (which our district will do no matter what ethnicity you are, it's one of their tools). Only it back fired when they found out that other parents in our group were white, AA, Hispanic, bi-racial couple etc. So then they implied we had too much money (that's funny huh) until again, we showed we ran the gammut and on it went. Little by little the other parents gave up and pulled their kids out of the school and sent them elsewhere. We hung on for almost 2 years but gave up. But we had somewhere to go. This is when we originally were going to homeschool. But then DD's number came up in a Charter School.

But if you don't have any other options I understand how you are in a pickle. I guess I wouldn't have seen your request to have him portray a man unusual given the circumstances. But it sounds like you've come up with a good solution.

Good Luck.

[Brightsy]

Re: The homework thing.
I tried to let the kids unwind first after school and then do homework, for us it didn't work. My older sons meds wear off an hour or so after he gets home and for him homework is more easily finished on the meds.
So it's become our routine now to do homework pretty much as soon as they walk in the door. They get a snack and a drink at the dining table while they work. I stay nearby, in the case of my youngest I go over the directions on his homework and ensure he uses his best writing. (Otherwise it's a mess.) He's in a self-contained 1st/2nd grade classroom and usually only has one or maybe two short worksheets a day to do. He's usually done in 5 minutes. My older son is in the 4th grade and somedays has lots of work and others not so much or any at all. They both walk in the door, get their stuff out and get to work. Then they have about another 45 minutes or so (for a total of an hour once they cross the threshold) where they can do what they want so long as it doesn't involve the computer or tv or handheld games (unless they have homework invloving said items). They can play w/ legos, play w/ friends outside, read, write, do artsy stuff, work on their Cub Scout stuff, cook w/ mommy, whatever. After the hours up they can fiddle w/ the computer or watch TV until dinner time. After dinner we usually play a game as a family, or watch TV together. Sometimes my older DS and I or my DH will play on the computer together... it seems to work for us, and they seem pretty ok with things.

[BeckyScott]

I think the Late To School ride would work best if the kids were in charge. ;) Of course, they think squealing into school is funny, so it wouldn't be an effective lesson. Maybe work out better as a computer game, something like Diner Dash, every level add more kids and more to do... However, I am quite intrigued by ChurchLady's dunking booth, now that is something I could really get into. I have a list of potential "guests". ;)

DisDreamin, reading about your DS watching videos, I thought about my DS who is a big fan of Wii Music. You can play an instrument or you can conduct. He likes to conduct. (I don't know if there's a French Horn, I never looked) It's one of the only Wii games that he can play by himself. It's nice, cause he's learning too, there is some classical music on there which he can now identify the piece and the composer. I'm sure that will come in handy later.

Gosh, I am worn out this morning, it's beyond coffee. It's been a busy week. And I hear thunder outside. Ugh. I don't even wanna look out the window.

[Mel6197]

Kira is 11 and Autistic

She has Self Control issues, when she is upset she BLASTS out, and 2 seconds later, she is calm again

So our BIGGEST Problem with her behaviors is Babys or Kids crying. She cant CANT handle the sound, it hurts her ears, she lashes out at any kid crying by insulting them yelling at them,

It starts off with Kira scanning the area, looking for problem children, She spots one and her eyes LOCK like they are on Prey.
As the child escalates, she then will SCREAM at the kid to shut up

For example.
CRT last year, You all know how small that place is. We walk in, nice nice.. 4 year old starts SCREAMING crying with a temper, Kira at the TOP of her very big lungs, (she looks like she is 15) Screams at this kid to SHUT UP.. Lets put it this way, the mom ran off before I could explain, and the ENTIRE place turned and looked at us..

Same thing on the Bus.

I have Headphones that Help, but she is gettin much worse with this as she gets older..

[mechurchlady]

Mel6197 big hugs and chocolates for you.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2542921
REad about the boy in that article

Your daughter had sensory issues and needs retraining on how to handle the noise that bothers her. First is to reduce sensory overload and second is training so that when she is overwhelmed she does not act out. She is like a person who once was bit by a dog and now hides from dogs. She sees babies and instinctively will go into her screaming fit. You have to stop it with training and getting clinicians who know about SID/SPD and other sensory issues.

Also testing of hearing is needed. Also testing of babies crying but not visible. Does she scream at the sound of a baby softly crying or is it just loud screaming that hurts her. If she watches television and screams when a baby cries off stage then it is the sound. If a baby cries off stage and she does not react then she may have developed a fear reaction to seeing babies and little kids because of past hurts.

It is a lot of detective work to have a neurovariant kid especially autistism and Sensory Integration Disorder.

Hugs and Chocolates:grouphug: :cheer2: :hug:
Laurie

[DisDreaminMom]

Wow, I don't even know how I would deal with this. I mean, what can you do? You need some very intense concerted behavior modification and SOON! Can you imagine what will happen with that as she gets older? Have you considered some training for her on this?

I would attack this problem like a dog or horse being reactive. Is there anyone like a therapist who can help you "desensitize" her? Does she even know she's doing it? Can she think through an alternate behavior that she can substitute for personally admonishing the culprit? Can you see it coming and head it off? I think it would make going anywhere except the morgue a possible crisis.

Tell us more about what she does, if she is even aware of the issue, and maybe we can brainstorm. I worry for you and her- new laws have been passed that make this type of behavior legally "assault". I really feel for you. What a pickle.

A new friend just moved here from another country and has a 9 year old son with seizures and behavior problems. After a week at the new school here in KY, the principal called her and told her that her son "poked a child with a pencil" and now the other kid's lawyer father was threatening a lawsuit against the school and the family. It didn't even draw blood, he was just trying to get his attention. And since the child has an out of country IEP, it doesn't count and the school system will not make any modifications or special actions until the mom can get her son in the "earliest" appointment with a doctor at the local university to again diagnose him next month. Until then, he's just a thug kid attacking everyone.

I'm past rocking the boat. If Obama is so into Charter Schools, then I want to start one myself. It would be for Aspie kids and those that are either highly intelligent or have parents that are. We would be outside as much as possible (with fans and tents if necessary), kids would physically have to work out math problems, teachers would all have Master's degrees, music, dance, and astro physics would be compulsory from Pre-K on. Time out would involve a recliner and classical music or a few minutes in the barn with some fluffy bunnies and adult supervision. We would have a line of fence posts with every size and tone bell hung on it and kids would be allowed time to ring the bells. Fans would be everywhere. All lights have dimmers, each room has brighter and lower lit areas. Each kid would pick a personal project and work on it for the semester. Trips would be to the planetarium, downtown tour of architecture, University library, and IKEA. It would be like Montessori on steroids. I bet I could make it a success with less money than a regular public school requires. (Our local artsy-farsty montessori is over $10K a year and they allow NO behavior issues whatsoever- would not even talk to me about DS when they found out he was Aspie- and the funny thing is that Montessori is the best model for our kids except they need the Executive Function added back into it).

Becky, my school would have a uniform that was designed by you, tagless, waistband buttonless, and totally soft. Our fundraisers would be clothing sales, GF baked goods, and a dairy/organic egg co-op. Kids would be in charge of marketing, business model, labor, etc. HOW MUCH FUN WOULD THAT BE?

[BeckyScott]

So if I design the uniforms, I get free tuition, right? :flower3:

All the kids from kg on would have their own laptop with wi-fi, and everything transcribed onto that (for their benefit and also so the parents would know what was going on) and their homework done that way if they prefer.

Annual spelling bee, which would be like the best spelling bee ever in the United States.

Professional sabbaticals, where professionals in technical industries could come teach for a semester on the subject of their specialty.

The school cafeteria would have 4 choices every day- gf/cf, Feingold, everything mushy, and everything crispy. :lmao: And a personal note, we'd need to have both curly fries and straight fries available, because they are not interchangable. We'd need some really rockin' cafeteria ladies, but if you pay them what they deserve...

My DH is gone a lot, too. I get them up and out and do all homework, etc. He puts them to bed every once in a while. I feel bad asking him to do much. He's tired and his is not the safest job. Being tired is too much of a liability. I used to get miffed about it, but I like eating and paying bills, so I got over it. Plus, he's willing and able to be the heavy in our house (wait 'till your father gets home!) and that is worth so much these days.

I really do think we're living parallel lives, almost to the point of freaky.

Mel, it sounds like your daughter is almost looking for the opportunity? I can't really tell by your post. I know my oldest DS (also 11) has what I call a very short fuse. And he's starting puberty and it has gotten worse. It's not sensory for him though, because he will put up with it from younger children, but not from his brother. Or, he will put up with it when he's out in public because he's learned the social norm, but won't at home because he doesn't feel pressured to conform here. Something like that. I think there is specific therapy to help de-sensitize, I can't remember what it's called. Have you tried just asking her (when she's calm) why she screams? She might not be able to tell you, but then again she might come up with an answer that will help you toward helping her.

[mechurchlady]

I at times think like the dog trainer around kids, lol. Basically it is the same principal. No choke chain but reward and encourage good behavior works. For every problem child there are sources for the behavior.

I instinctively arch my back if someone touches it. That is a learned behavior that is defensive to protect the damaged back. That is why something early on like sensitivity caused to her instinctively react to kids.

I send all of you Chocolates and hugs.
Will there be programs for us adults?

Can I live at your school? Will you take mom, please.

Laurie

[bookwormde]

Mel6197

Welcome

The current theory about compulsivity is that the vast majority of actions by neurotypicals as part of there process before becoming action are filtered through the portion of the mind that has developed from the innate societal social skills genetics. For spectrum individuals this simply does not exist and is only filtered by intellectual portion of the brain. There have been some very convincing studies done with brain scans to support this. Repetitive imprinting of intellectual societal social skills seems to be the only effective way to reduce “impulsivity”. There are good indications that this is part of the reason why spectrum individual are able to develop innovative ideas because the thought process is not “limited” by this same filter (along with the overall non liner/ non discriminatory EF system).

I do not know if your child will tolerate sound limiting devices like earplugs and headphones but this can be quite effective if they are always available and are practiced with. One good thing is that wearing headphones around had become very socially acceptable.