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SusanSeng
02-02-2001, 07:31 AM
We signed with Disney 8 days ago for the VWL not knowing about resales. We bought 150 points but we really like boardwalk. We have 7 days to cancel. We have been looking into resales and found one for 100 points at Boardwalk. Not enough points for us but it has 50 banked for 2000, 100 points for 2001 yet and we will pick up another 100 in 2002. We would then try to locate another 50-75 points. After closing fees the deal is about 64 dollars a point ($60 dollars a point before closing). How does this offer sound? Is it difficult to pick up more points from Boardwalk? We know we would be charged 2 closing fees.

bwvmary
02-02-2001, 07:38 AM
Well, if you want Boardwalk, resale is the only way to get it. I am having some difficulty getting into the Boardwalk at the 7 month window. I have points at BWV and HH. I am trying to use HH points to book at BWV, and I'm on the wait list for two days right in the middle of my stay. So, I'd say, if you plan to stay at BWV, be sure to buy BWV, even if you have to pay two fees. Obviously, two small resales is not as good as one that's large enough. You may have difficulty finding an add on that is as small as 50 - 75 points, but they come up sometimes. You should probably think in terms of tow 100 point contracts (minimum) when you compare. I originally bought 170, and found that it was not enough with a family of five. 200 is much more comfortable for us. Just my thoughts. Good luck

Mary
DVC Member BWV, HH
1976, 1985, 1989- Off property; 1990-91 - Disney Villas; 1993 - 2X - Disneyland; 1994 - Disneyland; 1997 - Beach Club; 1998 - All Star Music and Wilderness Lodge; 1999 - All Star Movies; 1999 - Boardwalk Villas; 2000 - Disney Institute and Yacht Club; 2000 - Contemporary and Boardwalk Villas; 2000 - Old Key West; 2000 - Hilton Head Island

TnRobin
02-02-2001, 07:46 AM
Susan,

You will not be allowed to purchse the 100 contract. Your initial contract for a DVC membership must be at least 150 points. After the initial purchase, you will be allowed to purchase smaller "Add-on" contracts.

If you are interested in a small resale at BWV, I would suggest contacting the resale agents directly. Let them know what you are looking for. Many of the smaller contracts never make it to the sale board. They are sold to people that have request into the agents for a small contract.

Good luck. I hope I get to Welcome you home soon

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Disney Vacation Club Board Co-Moderator
DVC and Cruise Chat Hostess
Cruise Board List Mistress

<font size=4 color=blue font face="Comic Sans MS">Robin

Richyams
02-02-2001, 07:56 AM
There are mixed reports about wether or not you will be able to buy 100 points as your first contract. The minimum to be a DVC member is 150 points today. That 100 point contract was originally an add on to someone's existing points.

I am not sure if there is mixed enforcement or what. Our venerable Doc has reported that Disney makes no check to see if a buyer is eligible to purchase an add-on by already owning points.

BUT, our equally reputable and knowledgable Dean has stated that Disney does indeed check and you would not be able to buy that 100 point contract as your first contract.

I hope that Dean is right. I say this because DVC lowering the point requirement for buy in has done all owners a diservice. 100 points really isn't enough points to use DVC the way it was meant to be. 100 points will force people to avoid weekends, put a strain on already hard to get studios, and actually lower the value of larger contracts.

Thinking about it, there is a very slight chance that I attributed to Dean what the honorable dsruba has stated....I don't think so, but there is a chance.

Creeping socialism was seen hundreds of years ago when James Madison said: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."

SusanSeng
02-02-2001, 08:16 AM
Let me get this straight, I won't be able to buy this from this resale agent because I do not have a existing contract? How long will it take for them to let me know. I need to cancel my contract with Disney by Wed. of next week.

Richyams
02-02-2001, 08:27 AM
Like I said, there are conflicting reports....but 100 points is not enough anyway.

Personally, if BWV is where you want to stay, and even though I own and stay at OKW, I agree with you and also think that you get a higher value for your points when they are used at BWV, I would cancel the VWL contract for sure. Wether you actually can get this 100 point contract, which I doubt, or not. You will be better off, WAY BETTER OFF, owning where you plan to stay.

Even if you have to wait a couple weeks for a better package, you will be better off. If BWV is where you plan to stay, you would even be better off with an OKW resale then a VWL contract. You would pay less upfront, have lower dues, have the 11 month window at a resort where you can get a GOOD value using your points, and be at the the same disadvantage as VWL when trying to stay at BWV.

Creeping socialism was seen hundreds of years ago when James Madison said: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."

drusba
02-02-2001, 09:49 AM
A little over a year ago, I purchased a resale contract that had less than the minimum 150 points. I was already an existing owner. During the process, the broker contacted me to explain that Disney was checking to confirm I was already an owner because of the less than 150 point purchase and I gave them my DVC number. The purchase was then approved. I assume there would have been a problem if I had not been an existing owner.

Bennet
02-02-2001, 10:17 AM
If you really like BWV villa better can the agreement with the mouse and buy a reslae.

Tell the broker your looking for BWV and get your 150 points at where you want to be. I may take a few weeks to a month for one to come up but one will.

DW just got more BWV point and so did my sister.

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kem330
02-02-2001, 10:32 AM
Susan, I can't reiterate enough- there will always be a deal out there. When we cancelled our Vero Beach contract with Disney , I got on lists with the two timeshare brokers and joined this board. All BW looked to be selling at $68/pt.I really had to let go of my burning desire to join DVC asap and wait for sales of BCV in another 18 mos or so. Then this week I got a call for 200 pts at BW we made a deal for $66/pt with 400 '99 and '00 and all of 01 points available. The NEXT day I get a call from the other broker for a 200 pt contact with all '00 and '01 points with a cost of $62/pt. We ended up with the cheaper contract because we didn't need the '99 points and I'd rather have the $800 cash then have the hassle of renting (even though I may have gotten up to $2000 for those points)I know you want less points, but I believe you really need at least 150. Don't worry- there is always a deal out there sooner or later. If you want BW then wait for it to come along!

PamOKW
02-02-2001, 11:04 AM
Someone alert CalBay....price of BWV plummets. Down to $62/point. ;) ;)

Bennet
02-02-2001, 11:37 AM
I just glanced at the timeshare store, that is their ad at the top of the page. 150 point @ BWV.

I'll say hi when I see you checking in.

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slindamood
02-02-2001, 01:32 PM
Good one, Pam OKW!!! I think those at the now severely undervalued BWVs can hear me laughing. :) ;)

WebmasterDoc
02-02-2001, 02:02 PM
This would be a great question for the resale broker. I was told that small contracts (less than 150 points) have been sold to new members and DVC has allowed them to go through. The only restriction DVC has is on new contracts sold thru DVC. I have no first hand knowledge of how these small contracts may be sold- other than a discussion with a resale broker. The $64 per point (including closing costs) does seem to be a good price- it would be a shame to let it slip by if you have a chance to purchase where you prefer to stay. Good Luck with your decision!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

SusanSeng
02-02-2001, 02:40 PM
Doc, thanks for the info. I talked to two resale brokers, one from the timeshare store, and they both agreed that it WILL go through. Pat at the TimeShare Store is just WONDERFUL. Even though this listing is through someplace else, she has given me wonderful advice. She told me this is a awesome price. My only concern is that we definetly want more than 100 points and I want to be sure that we can pick up 50-75 more points. Again both assured me that they do come about, I just need to be patient.

kem330
02-02-2001, 03:20 PM
Susan, Glad Pat has been helpful, I really liked her also. Now that they know you will have 100 pts, I'm sure they will keep their eye out for you for more. Or you can just bank and borrow for awhile. The main thing is you'll be in!!! I didn't mean to discourage you about the amount - it is a good deal and not a bad idea to work your way into the program.Good Luck!

WebmasterDoc
02-02-2001, 05:00 PM
I have purchased 3 resales through Pat at the Timeshare Store. She was one of the original DVC Vacation Guides and is very thorough and knowledgeable about DVC. You may even find a larger contract (at a good price) which will allow you even more flexibility with your membership. You will certainly be limited with 100 points, but that will still get you some great opportunities. Good luck with the transaction!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

Dean
02-02-2001, 06:28 PM
The info I have is all second hand. I do know of one person who bought less than 150 points without being an owner but I suspect it's the exception rather than the rule. I also know of a couple that DVC bought back for over the then floor of $50 pp apparently because they were to new members and less than 150 points. So no harm done if it doesn't work out and there will always be another deal out there.

Dean

kem330
02-03-2001, 07:29 AM
So Susan, what did you decide??

mooses41
02-03-2001, 09:00 AM
I think theres a 150 point bwv contract on ***************. Its pretty high, something like 68 pp. Not sure about closing etc. No banked/borrowed points. You'd probably end up paying about what you'd pay through Disney, but over 41 years, it's not that huge of a thing if you get the resort you want. Also, the broker at that site comes highly recommended. Her email is japetz@ibm.net. She isn't pushy and is really a nice person. If you do decide to email her, i'd appreciate if you'd mention my email adress. Thanks.

SusanSeng
02-03-2001, 10:00 AM
Thanks everyone for your advice. We went ahead and purchased the 100 points because it seemed like a good deal. Now we need to locate about 50-75 more points. Anyone here have any to sell(BW only please!!he he) Now I need to contact Disney to cancel. We are not planning to return for about a year but we are Happy that we choose Boardwalk. Our kids are still young but as they get older, Boardwalk will be the place I think they will enjoy the most. We are so excited.

kem330
02-03-2001, 05:07 PM
Congratulations Susan, it sounds like you got what you wanted. If you're not going until next year,are you able to bank your points? Also by next year BC may be available and you may choose to buy there- I think points at BW and BC would be a complement to each other. Did you know you can trade points on the rent /trade board also? If you come up short, you can probably work out a deal with another member. DVC allows members to transfer points to each other. Keep my email if you ever find you're in need and I'll help you if I have any points available. :D

SusanSeng
02-03-2001, 08:17 PM
Yes, we have a Dec. use year so by the time we close we will have time to bank 2001 points. We will have to use the 50 points left over from 2000 that we will have to use this year. Since we travel to Chicago a lot we may use those points at the Whitehall. Thanks again for all your help and support.

kem330
02-04-2001, 08:27 AM
If those 50 points are from Dec 2000 you will still be able to bank them- you have until May 31. Or are they banked 1999 points? In which case you do have to use them but you could bank your Dec 2000 points and have 200 points available on 12/01/01.

*Maybe we're talking about the same thing here- it's just confusing when you get year 2000 points in Dec, you tend to think of them as points for the upcoming year, rather than the past.

[This message was edited by kem330 on 02-04-01 at 12:42 PM.]

[This message was edited by kem330 on 02-04-01 at 01:27 PM.]

WebmasterDoc
02-04-2001, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In other words, when you pay your dues in Jan, you are paying them on the points you will get the next Dec.
[/quote]

No, actually, you are paying the calendar year 2001 dues. Dues are always paid on a calendar basis- which is the reason DVC pro rates the dues when you first purchase. It does seem a little confusing at times, but dues are definitely on a calendar year- not use year. Enjoy!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

kem330
02-04-2001, 09:18 AM
Doc it is confusing, because when I talked to my guide,she said we had to pay all the 2001 dues even though we would have closed in Feb - something to do with getting all the points in that use year. I thought it would be prorated because we would have only been members for 11 mos. Also in dealing with resales it's not clear- all the sellers seem to want you to pay 2001 dues, even if they've used up the points for that year. What is a reasonable points-dues correlation especially in relation to resales? It seems to me that if you get banked points they are more valuable as you have also saved yourself the dues paid on them. Hypothetically,on a BW resell with a Dec use year, if I were to purchase them today and there are no 2000 points available no banked points and say a Dec. use year,why should I pay all the 2001 dues? I was presented with a couple of resells like this and the agents
all said because I had the points available(even though it would be borrowing).If I borrow, I would still have to pay dues in Jan of 2002 and have no points left to use unless I borrow again.It seems to me I'd always be behind in that situation, whereas with a Disney purchase or a resell with leftover points- you are getting your initial points with no dues attached.Does this make any sense? So I guess from a valuation view point (not a technical DVC one) I like to attach my dues to a usage year.

* I removed the inaccurate info because of course you are right Doc- I just have my own fuzzy logic about points and dues!

[This message was edited by kem330 on 02-04-01 at 01:32 PM.]

SusanSeng
02-04-2001, 11:32 AM
Okay now I am confused. This is what I understood from our resale agent. There are 50 points that are banked and have to be used this year, so I guess they must be from Dec. 1999 and then we will have Dec. 2000 points which is 100 (we will have to bank these in May)and then we will receive another 100 next December.
I will check on this tomorrow, but I am pretty certain this was the deal.

Dean
02-04-2001, 01:01 PM
The seller can ask whatever they want. The agent can suggest you pay whatever as well. It's all negotiable. Of course the agent has a vested interest in getting you to pay extra fees.

Doc is absolutely right on this (as usual) and it's a common mistake people make in evaluating resales. In many cases, this question can make or break the reasonableness of a resale. My interactions with TSS would suggest that they believe the buyer should pay the entire fees for the year if you're getting the full allotment of points, but they are wrong. I don't think they are trying to be wrong or difficult, it's just that they have a different way of looking at it.

If all of the upcomming use years points are availalbe, the "neutral" cost would be a prorated amount from the use year beginning to the end of the year. This means that the dues for a Dec use year with all 200 points remaining should be around $67 with the next years dues coming up in Dec/Jan for a full year. Of course you will need to consider the overall package, banked or borrowed points and look at each resale individually. What that means is that if you're buying a package without many points left in the upcoming use year, you may be paying as much as one and a half years of fees for points you never see.

Dean

normr
02-04-2001, 06:20 PM
Is this another rule being broken allowing someone to buy in with the less than the 150 points we all were told be had to buy, I'm really getting tired of seeing rules not followed, are we going to soon see anyone making reservations with no regards to the 7/11 month rule?r

WebmasterDoc
02-04-2001, 06:26 PM
Disney will not sell fewer than 150 (was 230 at one time), but resales are another issue. You could also gift smaller contracts to your family and DVC would have no control over that. This is not a bending of the rules at all- DVC has never sold fewer than the minimum to a non member(although they have changed the minimum several times).

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

Richyams
02-04-2001, 06:40 PM
Actually, we have had reports of MS allowing people to use VB points at OKW or BWV at the 11 month window. We had two people report that. One didn't seem real "with it", the other seemed quite aware of the situation and said that this year they didn't let her, she wasn't sure if it was a new MS person or not, but since it was a small number of points and they were spending some time at VB anyway, she didn't make a big deal of it.

Anything to sell more points....seems to be the motto these days.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?