DVC-please do away with cash inventory!

[kamgen]

It is getting really frustrating for many of us that we cannot get reservations but non-members can on cash. I understand why they had this availability in the past, but now that there are TONS of members all trying to get ressies, it no longer makes sense. Just today I checked for a last minute ressie for this month. MS told me they only had openings at SSR. But through Disney, you can get a room at BCV, AKV and VWL.
I know there is arguments for both sides of this, but I say enough is enough. If someone wants to stay at a DVC resort, they should be members or staying on member points. JMHO.

[tjkraz]

Might want to read some of the comments in this thread to understand how the process works:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2045122

Without cash inventory, there would be no exchange programs. DVC would have to remove the option to use points for DCL, non-DVC resorts (Poly, Grand Californian, Disneyland resorts, Disneyland Paris, etc.), Adventures by Disney, Concierge Collection and so on. Those options may not be of interest to you but they are to many other members.

DVC could also try to outlaw point renting altogether. Right now the #1 reason that they have to allow renting is because Disney is a renter itself (the CRO rooms.)

Cash inventory also comes from the points DVC re-acquires via ROFR and unsold inventory. Disney isn't going to sacrifice that revenue just to give DVC members a little more availability.

The existence of cash inventory is just something we have to live with. It may be an "evil", but it's a necessary evil.

[kamgen]

I do appreciate the information and I do understand the reasoning around it. However, there are people who get the Cash ressies without any of those affiliations....they are not other TS folks trading in. What frustrates me as that ANYONE can get a ressie and members cannot. I do appreciate our getaway options, etc... however, I do not appreciate that anyone can go to the Disney World website and book a villa and members cannot. I know I speak for many members when I say this. There has to be a way to increase member availability. Thanks.

[tjkraz]

When a MEMBER uses points for a Disney Cruise or any other non-DVC option, DVC takes their points and turns them into accommodations to be offered thru CRO. Yes anybody can book the room through CRO, but the process all begins with a MEMBER saying "I want to use my points for DCL instead of a DVC room."

Effectively, the room went to a member first. It was the member's choice to TRADE the room for a Disney Cruise (or other option).

Again, without the revenue generated by those cash reservations our trading options would disappear. DCL is not willing to take 500 DVC points as compensation for a cruise. They want the cash (or cash equivalent balance sheet transfer) from DVC. DVC then has to recoup the $$$ and their only means of doing that is to rent cash rooms with the members' points.

[Tozzie]

I do appreciate the information and I do understand the reasoning around it. However, there are people who get the Cash ressies without any of those affiliations....they are not other TS folks trading in. What frustrates me as that ANYONE can get a ressie and members cannot. I do appreciate our getaway options, etc... however, I do not appreciate that anyone can go to the Disney World website and book a villa and members cannot. I know I speak for many members when I say this. There has to be a way to increase member availability. Thanks.

You are misunderstanding, when someone uses points to book a cruise or a room at Disneyland those points are turned over to CRO in the form of cash inventory, also the developer hold back a certain amount of points and doens't sell them at all those are also turned over to CRO to rent and the revenue is used to off set MF other. Your plans are last minute, are you suggesting that all rooms remain available to anyone who wants to book at anytime, suppose they did that and then they weren't able to book the rooms then what? I love WDW but once in a while I would like to go someplace else and I am glad I would be able to use points to do that.

[kamgen]

Thank you again. And I do understand how it works. But I still dont agree or like it. And as someone who has been a member for over 8 years and has attended the Open House various times with prospective members, this is never explained. So I can see how members would be unhappy when they cant get a ressie and someone else can. IMHO, if you want to stay at a DVC resort, you should be a member, know a member, or not be eligible to stay. While some people may not like that, that is how I feel.
I know Disney need to recoup money, and I agree with that. I just know they could come up with a better system to allow those who are members to reap the benefits either way. IT is terrible that when we exchange out of DVC we are hurting our fellow members. Not fair, not right. JMHO. Thanks again.

[Chuck S]

Without cash nights being available through CRO, how do you propose for DVC to pay the Cruise lines and Adventures by Disney, and Disney Collection?

The only options are increase EVERYONES dues substantially so that only those that trade to non-DVC location reap the benefits or simply not allow DVC points to be used for cruises or any other Disney Collection venue. I for one, do not wish to be paying for someone else's cruise through a substantial increase in dues.

[kamgen]

Tozzie- I am not only talking about last minute reservations. I talk to a lot of members who find that even 7 and 8 months out, there is nothing on points, only cash.

I am not misunderstanding and realize that Disney needs to recoup the money so members do not have to pay. I dont want to pay either. However, I do think there is a better system they could devise and I am entitled to not like the fact that non-members get to stay at DVC resorts when members cannot. I can get the point of why it works this way without having to like it. :rolleyes1

[Tina]

Perhaps a solution (and I'm not delving too deep in to the details of making it work) would be to offer 2 types of DVC memberships -- (A) Those that can trade out and (B) Those that can not trade out. B option memberships would be allowed to book any available DVC room as long as they have points available. B memberships would never be allowed to trade out. Like I said, I'm not delving too deep into the mechanics of making this work, but a girl can dream, can't she? I never trade out and probably never will.

[kamgen]

Tina- thanks for trying to understand and offering a solution idea (even though we know it wont happen! LOL!)
We have traded out twice in 8 years but plan to later as our kids get older. So we would not want a different membership. But any idea is better than no idea! :goodvibes

Still it comes down to a simple issue, members being shut out while ANYONE can stay at a DVC resort. Despite all the explanations and justifications for it, it is still frustrating and annoying to pay membership and dues and be asked to pay more out of pocket for a room.

[tjkraz]

Still it comes down to a simple issue, members being shut out while ANYONE can stay at a DVC resort. Despite all the explanations and justifications for it, it is still frustrating and annoying to pay membership and dues and be asked to pay more out of pocket for a room.

Despite the explanations and justifications, it is also frustrating and annoying that the US economy is in the tank and that the auto industry is bankrupt. Still there are certain fundamental truths that cannot be ignored while trying to remedy those situations.

I'm not trying to make light of the situation because I'm sure most of us would prefer that rooms somehow flip back to DVC members rather than sitting unbooked on the CRO site. But it's just one of those necessary evils.

Here are two other ways to look at it:

1. If "Joe" had decided NOT to use points for DCL and instead spent them for DVC accommodations, the rooms you see on the CRO site would STILL not be available for your short-notice booking. Instead Joe would have the rooms booked with his points.

2. If Joe decided to rent his points and pay cash for the cruise, again the short-notice booking would not be available. The non-members renting Joe's points would already be booked into the room.

[TLPL]

Still it comes down to a simple issue, members being shut out while ANYONE can stay at a DVC resort. Despite all the explanations and justifications for it, it is still frustrating and annoying to pay membership and dues and be asked to pay more out of pocket for a room.

Well the solution is simple then, non-DVC members shut out at any DVC resorts. And DVC member shut out of DCL, Adventure by Disney, non-DVC resorts, and no world passport, no Concierge collection, RCI neither. And if they also shut out other DVC members who doesn't own at that DVC resort, I am sure it will guarantee everyone be able to book at their own resort whenever they want to. :banana: ok you can thank me now.

[blondietink]

Hopefully when Kadani Village and BLT open later this year, then some of this trouble getting ressies will be over with. But, I also think it depends on what season you are traveling also. If you are wanting to go in high season or a season that gets heavy DVC use, then you could still have issues if you don't book far enough in advance.

Last summer I had some points to use or lose so less than 5 weeks out I called to see what was available. I had my choice of 4 resorts and grabbed AKV. So, I think if you keep an open mind on what resort you want, you shouldn't have a problem. :cool2:

[DebbieB]

I used points at Disneyland 3 times this year, total of 211 points. So that opened up several room nights at BWV for cash. I really enjoyed my nights at Disneyland, I didn't want to have to pay cash for them when I have points available.

blondietink also mentioned Kidani at AKV and BLT. That's another source of cash rooms - points that DVC owns that have not been sold yet go to CRO for cash.

[simzac]

We have traded out twice in 8 years but plan to later as our kids get older. So we would not want a different membership.

Without the system set up as it is now, you would not be able to trade out at all, but apperently you like that option. You can't have your cake and eat it too. JMO

[Tozzie]

Tozzie- I am not only talking about last minute reservations. I talk to a lot of members who find that even 7 and 8 months out, there is nothing on points, only cash.

I am not misunderstanding and realize that Disney needs to recoup the money so members do not have to pay. I dont want to pay either. However, I do think there is a better system they could devise and I am entitled to not like the fact that non-members get to stay at DVC resorts when members cannot. I can get the point of why it works this way without having to like it. :rolleyes1

There is no guarantee that at 7 or 8 months out there would be room either because if you didn't allow points to be used anywhere else the members using those points elsewhere may have booked those rooms already. As for your not understanding your statement that people without any of those affiliations can get room screamed that you didn't understand.

It seems you are annoyed because you want to be able to stay when and where you want to but you don't want others to have the same options available to them. So by your thinking I should not be able to use my points somewhere other than DVC so that you can stay where you want when you want.

[Tina]

I used points at Disneyland 3 times this year, total of 211 points. So that opened up several room nights at BWV for cash. I really enjoyed my nights at Disneyland, I didn't want to have to pay cash for them when I have points available.

blondietink also mentioned Kidani at AKV and BLT. That's another source of cash rooms - points that DVC owns that have not been sold yet go to CRO for cash.

Ahhh... I forgot about Disneyland. I also like to use my DVC points to stay there. I'm going again this summer. I guess I should say that I don't trade out of Disney Resorts, but I do trade out of my home resort.

[Disney Pappy]

I totally agree with BlondieTink. With AKV & BLT owners getting developers points and their home resorts not open yet this is creating a "shortage" of rooms available. Hopefully this will improve by this time next year.

As DVC membership grows planning will become even more important; I have been a member for over 4 years and have made about 12 trips to WDW providing rooms for both family anf friends. Maybe I'm lucky but I have always been able to get accomodations that I wanted. I've even made a short term ressie, calling on a Fri afternoon for a Sunday check-in in Sept. As all of the new members learn how to use the system it is bound to cause a shortage of rooms at popular times. As a DVC member we get rooms subject to availability. That doea not mean ALL members can get a room on new years eve for example.

I do agree it is frustrating that you as a member cannot get a room but "Joe Traveler" call go on line and book a room at a DVC resort that is unavailable to you. These were the terms we agreed to when we signed on but that does not make the pill any easier for the OP to swallow.

Just my 2 cents

[mikesmom]

Actually, you are not shut out. You can pay cash.

[CarolA]

Are you willing to give up the ability to trade to any other Disney owned entity? If so then, the OP's idea is great.

However, I think most of us won't embrace it!

And DVC can't just give CRO the "last minute" unsold stuff. That's not the way folks vacation at Disney. And Disney isn't going to only take the "unpopular weeks" They probably have plenty of rooms ALREADY!

[Tozzie]

I totally agree with BlondieTink. With AKV & BLT owners getting developers points and their home resorts not open yet this is creating a "shortage" of rooms available. Hopefully this will improve by this time next year.

As DVC membership grows planning will become even more important; I have been a member for over 4 years and have made about 12 trips to WDW providing rooms for both family anf friends. Maybe I'm lucky but I have always been able to get accomodations that I wanted. I've even made a short term ressie, calling on a Fri afternoon for a Sunday check-in in Sept. As all of the new members learn how to use the system it is bound to cause a shortage of rooms at popular times. As a DVC member we get rooms subject to availability. That doea not mean ALL members can get a room on new years eve for example.

I do agree it is frustrating that you as a member cannot get a room but "Joe Traveler" call go on line and book a room at a DVC resort that is unavailable to you. These were the terms we agreed to when we signed on but that does not make the pill any easier for the OP to swallow.

Just my 2 cents


This is not entirely true as far as developer points go, the only DVC resort that most not all but most of these points can be used at is SSR and SSR was available for the OP.

As for "Joe Traveller" he isn't booking a room that is unavailable to another member he is booking my room so that I can go to California and stay at a DL hotel on points. So either way the room isn't available.

[kamgen]

WOW:eek:
I am surprised to get such flames here when most of the members I know are unhappy as well with how it works. Again, not sure I am being understood. I do understand the way it works and realize what is behind the system. Just saying that I dont have to like it and I can wish it was different.
And by the way, I do plan and have been lucky to almost always get a ressie somewhere.

Guess I will keep my opinions to myself. Thanks for the opinions.

[tjkraz]

I totally agree with BlondieTink. With AKV & BLT owners getting developers points and their home resorts not open yet this is creating a "shortage" of rooms available. Hopefully this will improve by this time next year.

That's another misconception.

"Developer's Points" do not simply appear out of thin air. It's just another avenue for DVC getting rid of its own holdings. All of the buildings at Saratoga Springs were open for about a year before they were sold to members. So for the period where DVC was holding unsold points, offering them as a sales incentive was just one avenue of using that asset.

Whether those unsold units are given to new members in the form of "Developer's Points" or turned over to CRO, the net result is the same.

There will also be a relative balance between the number of units available for member bookings and the number of owners (points) active in the system.

As DVC membership grows planning will become even more important;

That may or may not be true and will likely vary depending upon personal preference.

In the years I have been a member, it seems that booking the BoardWalk has become easier. That's not to say that Standard or BoardWalk view rooms are consistently available at 7 months, but there usually is quite a bit of Garden/Pool availability. If DVC continues to add more varied resorts with high appeal to certain groups, it could certainly get easier to book many locations. Specifically, if resorts like BCV and AKV are drawing more folks who would have otherwise shown a preference for BWV, then BWV will get easier to book. And with BLT, the Grand Californian and Hawaii resorts scheduled to come on-line, demand patterns will continue to shift.

Short notice reservations are probably not going to increase in any great numbers. But I don't believe we can conclude that bookings will continue to get exponentially more difficult as time goes on. In fact, with what Disney has on the table right now I think things will only improve over the next 4-5 years.

[tjkraz]

WOW:eek:
I am surprised to get such flames here when most of the members I know are unhappy as well with how it works. Again, not sure I am being understood. I do understand the way it works and realize what is behind the system. Just saying that I dont have to like it and I can wish it was different.


Then please offer some suggestions for making it better.

I don't see anyone as flaming you. Reading your posts I did not get the impression that you understood the way the system works. If you do...fine. But in the absence of any constructive suggestions for improving the status quo, it sounds like you're complaining about things which are completely out of our control--like the sky being blue or the grass green. There isn't much that can be done to alter the current situation without handcuffing members point usage abilities.

[KAT4DISNEY]

OP - you are making an assumption that if there were no trades allowed and all rooms were available only for point reservations that there would still be the same availability that you see for cash reservations. More than likely that would not be true and members that would have traded out would now have been occupying those rooms and there still would have been the same availability.
If the points couldn't be used for any trades then the members would have to use them only at DVC. The system is set up to operate at almost full capacity so it's terribly unlikely that last minute planning would work any better.
I actually don't find it much different than what it used to be booking thru CRO. There wasn't always availability at our first choice so we'd have to pick something else....or a different time. Especially for last minute reservations.

I do understand the frustration you're expressing at seeing those rooms available when you want to use them. I just disagree a bit that it would be any better with a different system and wouldn't agree with the change you wished for.

[DebbieB]

WOW:eek:
I am surprised to get such flames here when most of the members I know are unhappy as well with how it works. Again, not sure I am being understood. I do understand the way it works and realize what is behind the system. Just saying that I dont have to like it and I can wish it was different.
And by the way, I do plan and have been lucky to almost always get a ressie somewhere.

Guess I will keep my opinions to myself. Thanks for the opinions.

You were not being flamed. Others were just explaining the situation and offering their opinions.

You wish it was different. Do you have a suggestion for how members can trade out and still not offer cash reservations at DVC resorts?

[Scott]

Question about this: how does CRO determine what room and resort to book? If I give up 200 VWL points for the cruise, does that limit CRO to only VWL rooms? What if those 200 points are still available within the 7 month booking window...could CRO then select any resort to use those 200 points? That is, can they cherry pick the best rooms, resorts, and dates?
Scott

[tjkraz]

Question about this: how does CRO determine what room and resort to book? If I give up 200 VWL points for the cruise, does that limit CRO to only VWL rooms? What if those 200 points are still available within the 7 month booking window...could CRO then select any resort to use those 200 points? That is, can they cherry pick the best rooms, resorts, and dates?
Scott

DVC apparently decides which rooms are released to CRO and CRO only has access to those rooms. I don't think anyone can speak authoritatively about the method used to determine which rooms are released, but I have never seen anything which would suggest they are cherrypicking the better rooms and dates. You'll often find DVC rooms available via CRO for even the slowest seasons.

And here are two related facts that we do know to be true:

1. DVC does not release any of the Standard View rooms at BWV for cash bookings. That definitely works in members' favor. If DVC was using its own points to release the cheaper standard view rooms, they would stand to make more on the cash bookings.

2. A similar process of releasing rooms happens when members trade out to II/RCI, and DVC has an established pattern of sticking to the lower-demand periods for the rooms it sends to the trading companies.

My subjective opinion is that DVC is pretty fair to members when it comes to choosing which rooms go to CRO.

[kimberh]

Question about this: how does CRO determine what room and resort to book? If I give up 200 VWL points for the cruise, does that limit CRO to only VWL rooms? What if those 200 points are still available within the 7 month booking window...could CRO then select any resort to use those 200 points? That is, can they cherry pick the best rooms, resorts, and dates?
Scott

I have wondered this also. I saw that when I almost paid cash for Boardwalk villas, once in desperation, it was standard view through CRO. I know that last year on II's Getaway Vacation section, every week was available for a studio and one bedroom at SSR from about Sept through Dec. The rate was about the same as CRO. Not much of a savings. Even the whole month of Oct. They were not snatched up, I watched them for a while. It will be interesting to see what RCI has up for rent when the system gets flowing. I know I will watch it.

[CarolA]

WOW:eek:
I am surprised to get such flames here when most of the members I know are unhappy as well with how it works. Again, not sure I am being understood. I do understand the way it works and realize what is behind the system. Just saying that I dont have to like it and I can wish it was different.
And by the way, I do plan and have been lucky to almost always get a ressie somewhere.

Guess I will keep my opinions to myself. Thanks for the opinions.

Well, apparently your "most of the members" doesn't represent the entire story.

And reading this, I see no one FLAMING you???? Facts are facts, not flames!:confused3

[DebbieB]

DVC also does not release BWV boardwalk view rooms to CRO. When booking through CRO, they classify the rooms as "standard" but in reality it's whatever DVC members don't book, usually preferred pool/garden. By using the term "standard" they are covered no matter what is available.

[kimberh]

DVC also does not release BWV boardwalk view rooms to CRO. When booking through CRO, they classify the rooms as "standard" but in reality it's whatever DVC members don't book, usually preferred pool/garden. By using the term "standard" they are covered no matter what is available.

Well, this is good to know. I cancelled because I was not going to pay all that money for Standard view. I just found a different date and traveled on points.

[kamgen]

While I do appreciate everyone's insight and opinions, I look at it in simple terms.
Why leave a room empty because it was in cash inventory if a member has points and wants to use them there......
And it does happen.

I guess i should have named this thread something different. I understand we cannot do away with cash inventory, but I do think rooms should not be left empty if members want them. I also dont agree with so many non-members staying at the DVC resorts. Villas are for members....in my humble opinion. I know that opens up a totally different argument, so we won't go there. :)

no flames please:rolleyes:

[DebbieB]

In DVC's mind, having non-members stay at DVC resorts is a good marketing tool. I never considered buying DVC until a member friend invited me to stay in a 2 bedroom at OKW. I was hooked instantly. There have been recent cases where they had alot of empty cash rooms at OKW and SSR and they upgraded people staying at values & moderates. It was in September, I don't think they had members on waitlists for the rooms. They also offered members discounts for the rooms for either themselves or friends & family.

[Brian Noble]

Why leave a room empty because it was in cash inventory if a member has points and wants to use them there.

It's important to note that some rooms in cash (breakage inventory) can still be booked on points. The ones that cannot are those owned by Disney, or those used for one of the non-DVC options. For the latter, points have already been used to secure those rooms---and the members who relinquished those points obtained something in return for which DVC had to pay. In exchange, DVC needs to recover money by renting out the rooms representing the relinquished points.

What this boils down to is that the room that you want already went to some other Member---the one who relinquished points for their non-DVC vactation option. So, the villas are for Members, and this one has already been claimed.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand, but clearly you refuse to accept it.

[tjkraz]

...I do think rooms should not be left empty if members want them.

Here are a couple of problems off the top of my head:

1. When do you pull the plug on the CRO reservation? My assumption is that you are suggesting some threshold would have to be reached when the CRO room reverts back to DVC. At what point does that occur? I think it would have to be no later than 30 days before arrival in order to be of any value to members. So then you're asking Disney to sacrifice whatever bookings they may have obtained 30 days out. We can only speculate on what that volume may be, but this would certainly result in fewer successful CRO bookings--even if just by a small percent.

2. It gives DVC even more points to pull additional rooms in the future. If member inventory re-claims 200 points worth of villas, DVC can then spend those 200 points on additional rooms. So now you've got even more villas coming out of inventory at the 11 month window (even though some are returned later.)

3. It would essentially encourage DVC to cherry-pick the periods that they know they have greater success in renting. Why bother continually giving villas to CRO in August or September since cash demand is so low and the rooms would just flip back to DVC? Instead wouldn't they just start pulling more rooms during Food & Wine Fest, early December and around the popular marathon weekends?

I'll also make one more unrelated observation. IIRC this thread began because you were disappointed at not being able to book a room a month from now. Even if cash rooms were returned to DVC, I highly doubt that it would have any noteworthy impact on short notice bookings. The rooms would either have gone to someone on a waiting list or would have been otherwise snatched-up by now.

[kamgen]

Since it seems many of you don't understand, I will let this one go. Before I do, let me clarify a few things:

1. The last minute ressie was not for me, it was for someone else who vented their frustration to me...so thanks for killing the messenger.

2. Brian Noble- you don't see why i don't understand? I do understand all of the things other posters are saying....understand and agree are two different things. So please understand that I do understand :)

3. I hear from members all the time that they have a hard time booking even when there is cash inventory, so this is not just a short notice booking problem.

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree. If that is possible.

[Tozzie]

Since it seems many of you don't understand, I will let this one go. Before I do, let me clarify a few things:

1. The last minute ressie was not for me, it was for someone else who vented their frustration to me...so thanks for killing the messenger.

2. Brian Noble- you don't see why i don't understand? I do understand all of the things other posters are saying....understand and agree are two different things. So please understand that I do understand :)

3. I hear from members all the time that they have a hard time booking even when there is cash inventory, so this is not just a short notice booking problem.

I guess we will all have to agree to disagree. If that is possible.

No one is killing the messenger, I read your posts and you still don't come accross as if you really understand.
If you re read your original post, u made it seem like the last minute reservation was for you, when you didn't get the response you desired you threw in that it isn't just this reservation it is at 7 or 8 months out, well I find it hard to bellieve that you can't book at 7 or 8 months out and get a reservation at a DVC resort, it might not be the resort you want to stay at, but that is what the 11 month booking window is for.

I have three DVC trips planned this year one I booked at 5 months out one at 6 months out, and one at exactly 11 months but I wanted the AKV concierge so I made sure to book at 11 months, on the first two reservations I didn't get exactly what I wanted but I did get a villa on points and the fact that I didn't get the resorts I wanted is my own fault for waiting so long to book the trip.

Unless it is a super busy time such as Christmas, Thanksgiving, or maybe Food and Wine I have a hard time believing that members can't get a room at one of the DVC resorts at 7 or 8 months out. In fact there was a room available for this last minute reservation, just that it is at SSR and obviously not what you or your freinds wanted. I have truly tried to follow your logic and can't other posters don't agree with you and you call that flamming, I call it a difference of opinion.

[CarolA]

I am the QUEEN of last minute reservations and I have NO problem with the current policy.

I often have to call back daily etc, but probably am RARELY locked out..

Examples. After Thanksgiving booked three nights at OKW in a studio for the week of 12/15.

About 2 weeks ago booked four nights in a studio at SSR for the week of 1/28......

I have booked from the airport as I fly to Orlando.

Really I think I have been locked out once in more trys then I can count! It's not easy, it's not perfect, I may have to "waste" points and take a 1 BR instead of a studio, but I fail to see that CRO has impacted my stays. (As a matter of fact on "last minute" they often call CRO to get the room back. That generally is on my "day of or few days before bookings")

I am sorry that the OP thinks folks are flaming. I still don't see it. I think what most poeple are saying is that they are willing to live with the issue because the trade off is worth it.

One of the rules of message boards... don't expect 100% agreement on any issue! And don't take it personally.

[GEB@okw]

You bought a membership and did not read the contract. Why not sell the points and stop complaining? Complainers need to go away!

[kamgen]

wow, you guys are funny:goodvibes

[DebbieB]

You bought a membership and did not read the contract. Why not sell the points and stop complaining? Complainers need to go away!

That was uncalled for.:sad2:

I understand where the OP is coming from. It's frustrating to see rooms available through CRO but you cannot book them with DVC points. But that's just the way the program works.

[Lynne M]

You bought a membership and did not read the contract. Why not sell the points and stop complaining? Complainers need to go away!

These forums exist to discuss our memberships and our trips, and help people learn and understand the program. The OP has a concern, we're trying to understand her concern and help her understand the way point vs. cash reservations work. We discuss the good AND the not-so-good aspects of DVC ownership here, so, no, complainers do not need to go away. Opinions of all kinds are welcome. Rudeness, not so much.

[kamgen]

Debbie & Lynne M- Thanks! Finally someone out there understood me. I UNDERSTAND how the program works, but I am still allowed to be frustrated. I always looked at the DIS as a place for us to be frustrated and vent that...without rudeness. :goodvibes

[crisi]

While I do appreciate everyone's insight and opinions, I look at it in simple terms.
Why leave a room empty because it was in cash inventory if a member has points and wants to use them there......
And it does happen.

I guess i should have named this thread something different. I understand we cannot do away with cash inventory, but I do think rooms should not be left empty if members want them. I also dont agree with so many non-members staying at the DVC resorts. Villas are for members....in my humble opinion. I know that opens up a totally different argument, so we won't go there. :)

no flames please:rolleyes:

The problem is that DVC doesn't own most of these rooms anymore - they've been sold to CRO.

Its like when you go buy a new car - and decide to pay for that new car you'll sell the old car. You sell the old car, then your son comes home from college and would like a car. Maybe the person you sold it to is on vacation and isn't using it, but it isn't yours to use any longer.

DVC has sold the room in order for another DVC member to buy a room at a different resort - might be the Poly, might be the cruise line, might be a Concierge collection resort.

CRO can't "loan" the room back to Disney, because that would create accounting issues....though Jim Lewis apparently has said that they are working on something that might give the system more flexibility in moving rooms back and forth (I'm not holding my breath). That would be very cool, but even then there will be limitations - DVC/CRO accounting needs to keep room usage in the correct use year, just like you do. If I use 2009 points to book a cruise, Disney is going to dig themselves a huge accounting hole if CRO doesn't book that room until 2012.

[Dean]

I do appreciate the information and I do understand the reasoning around it. However, there are people who get the Cash ressies without any of those affiliations....they are not other TS folks trading in. What frustrates me as that ANYONE can get a ressie and members cannot. I do appreciate our getaway options, etc... however, I do not appreciate that anyone can go to the Disney World website and book a villa and members cannot. I know I speak for many members when I say this. There has to be a way to increase member availability. Thanks.While I understand the emotions involved, they are simply that, emotions. My interpretation is that you understand the facts but can't get past the emotions, fair enough. These issues happen at every hotel and every timeshare to one degree or another but for DVC and Disney it's simply more transparent. Some timeshares are at occupancy less than 30% off season even though most of those units are owned and usually the maint fees are being paid (at least in the past). And a significant portion of RCI & II deposits are never redeemed either and those people are paying yearly fees plus the exchange membership fee. Partly this is due to people not being able to get something they're happy with and that's an entire 20 page thread unto itself. And if the unit is owned and/or reserved, often the resort doesn't even know about it until a few days after the start of that week. And they couldn't give it away if they tried. In many ways, DVC really is no different, it's just that we use a different reservation system which actually allows this to be obvious.

The only way for there to be no cash rooms would be for DVC to eat those unsold units and to eliminate completely any exchange options other than private exchanges. Even then units would go empty if reserved or unreserved, you just wouldn't hear about it or be able to see it. DVC already shunts exhange units to lower demand times and lower demand resorts for the most part. Many systems do developer deposits then go after those that exchange in far more aggressively than does DVC. This would also mean higher dues as a portion of those cash reservations go toward keeping dues down.

Every resort and system I know of has a tendency to let units go empty that could be put to good use. Say you own a gardenview unit on Maui and they have a number of ocean front units sitting empty. They will let them set empty rather than give you a better unit. In this example it's positioning for future sales. If they routinely gave you a better unit than you owned, why buy the more expensive unit. At many resorts shoulder and off season weeks often cost more in dues than they are truly worth. For DVC the points system and per point fees account for this but if you're paying $1000 a year in fees for a unit you can routinely rent for $400 or less, you are subsizing the other owners that own higher demand/value weeks at least in once way of looking at it.

So the fix as I see it is to eliminate all exchanges, likely including to other DVC resorts, raise fees 5%, and have DVC do developer deposits so RCI members can trade in more instead of renting unsold units. Personally I'm glad there's an outlet for easy rental, it increases the value of our ownership.

[Brian Noble]

So please understand that I do understand
If you really do understand, then you are not expressing yourself well.

Your goal, stated simply, is "Villas should be for Members."

Some villas are owned by DVC. They can do with them what they will. Nothing the Members can say about that.

But, the other villas in cash inventory were for Members. Some other Member effectively booked it and rented it (through CRO) for cash to pay for the cruise or non-DVC resort room they desired.

So, the villas that are owned by Members are for Members. Which is exactly what you want. Yet, you are still unhappy, despite the fact that the current system precisely meets your stated goal.

[TLPL]

Wow four pages already, amazing! popcorn::

Since it seems many of you don't understand, I will let this one go. Before I do, let me clarify a few things:

1. The last minute ressie was not for me, it was for someone else who vented their frustration to me...so thanks for killing the messenger.


Wait a minute, you were trying to make a DVC reservation for someone else? Are they DVC members? Because I read somewhere someone doesn't understand why Disney allow non DVC members stay in DVC resorts. :rolleyes:

[mopee3]

I have found this discussion interesting because it has shown me a side of DVC that I didn't realize was out there, or at least hadn't thought about. There are rooms going maybe without people and cannot be rented with points but with cash.

So if I had traded "out" to DCL with my points and needed a place to stay at the last minute before the ship left, well I should be able to use my points! Right. kamgen?? Is this what has happened to you. Because I see from you previous posts you appear to have "traded out" a number of times to DCL. I am guessing you have discussed this with other people, DVC members or not, on the cruses you have been on and have come to the conclusion you all are being wronged or at least wish the rules were different. Could be, but that’s what you signed on the dotted line for and now you have a choice: complain to DIS and management, sell your points, or continue to enjoy the DVC points and the rules. Maybe realizing that it’s the rules that make DVC so much fun for so many people, kind of like laws that keep us safe.

Chow and may you receive all you wish for.

Moe

[alldiz]

OP I can understand your frustration.....but I did benefit from it.

I didn't have enough points for my last day of vacation.....they had a cash discount available.....which enabled me to stay that last night.

Of course that same night was unavailable on points later on, but as a member I did benefit from the cash ressie.
Kerri

[JimMIA]

This is one of those amusing "WAHHHHH!" :sad: threads that I usually ignore, but I did want to point out one observation.

I have not dissected every word in every post on each of the four pages here, but I don't believe I have seen a single ACTUAL complaint from anyone who has personally been unable to get a ressie because of cash inventory -- or anything else. All I see are a few "I've heard complaints" -- no actual, real problems.

Even OP's friend could get a last-minute ressie...just not where they wanted to stay. And apparently, they preferred whining to waitlisting...

Welcome to the world of timeshares! Anyone who thinks they can book any timeshare last-minute and have their pick of resort and accommodations is just living in a dream world. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on anyone else's part.

Carol gave some real examples of her real success in getting last minute ressies, despite the heinous "cash inventory crisis." My daughters could give you a dozen or so additional examples, because they almost never book earlier than three months out.

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

[alldiz]

This is one of those amusing "WAHHHHH!" :sad: threads that I usually ignore, but I did want to point out one observation.

I have not dissected every word in every post on each of the four pages here, but I don't believe I have seen a single ACTUAL complaint from anyone who has personally been unable to get a ressie because of cash inventory -- or anything else. All I see are a few "I've heard complaints" -- no actual, real problems.

Even OP's friend could get a last-minute ressie...just not where they wanted to stay. And apparently, they preferred whining to waitlisting...

Welcome to the world of timeshares! Anyone who thinks they can book any timeshare last-minute and have their pick of resort and accommodations is just living in a dream world. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on anyone else's part.

Carol gave some real examples of her real success in getting last minute ressies, despite the heinous "cash inventory crisis." My daughters could give you a dozen or so additional examples, because they almost never book earlier than three months out.

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

The line I bolded has got to be one of my all time favorites:thumbsup2
Kerri

[mickeymorse]

I also dont agree with so many non-members staying at the DVC resorts. Villas are for members....in my humble opinion. I know that opens up a totally different argument, so we won't go there. :)

no flames please:rolleyes:

Not to flame you but the reason I am now an owner is the fact that I stayed at a DVC resort on rented points. I loved my stay and decided that I wanted complete control of my ressie next time.

[Starr W.]

This is one of those amusing "WAHHHHH!" :sad: threads that I usually ignore, but I did want to point out one observation.

I have not dissected every word in every post on each of the four pages here, but I don't believe I have seen a single ACTUAL complaint from anyone who has personally been unable to get a ressie because of cash inventory -- or anything else. All I see are a few "I've heard complaints" -- no actual, real problems.

Even OP's friend could get a last-minute ressie...just not where they wanted to stay. And apparently, they preferred whining to waitlisting...

Welcome to the world of timeshares! Anyone who thinks they can book any timeshare last-minute and have their pick of resort and accommodations is just living in a dream world. Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on anyone else's part.

Carol gave some real examples of her real success in getting last minute ressies, despite the heinous "cash inventory crisis." My daughters could give you a dozen or so additional examples, because they almost never book earlier than three months out.

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

:thumbsup2 Jim.

Though "WAHHHHH!" :sad: threads are one of my guilty pleasures of the DIS boards.

[Simba's Mom]

OP I can understand your frustration.....but I did benefit from it.

I didn't have enough points for my last day of vacation.....they had a cash discount available.....which enabled me to stay that last night.

Of course that same night was unavailable on points later on, but as a member I did benefit from the cash ressie.
Kerri
I think the OP is talking about full cash thru CRO. Member's cash often isn't that bad at 25% off. I'm just wondering (after 7 years of membership I'm still learning things), aren't member's cash rooms a third inventory? I've been on the waiting list for points for months, called back at about 2 months, only to find a room available on Member's cash discount.
And just because you know how things work, doesn't mean you always like it.

[Tina]

And just because you know how things work, doesn't mean you always like it.

I think that is exactly the point of the OP. She was merely ranting, which a very high percentage of us do here on the DIS. I've been in her shoes myself with trying to add on nights to find only cash discounted rooms available. Its frustrating and rant-worthy. I think I ranted about my own inability to book when it happened to me. Then I moved on. However, my rant wasn't bludgeoned to death like this one has been. :confused:

I feel a Rodney King moment coming on...... "Can't we all just get along?"

[Happy Birthday Cat]

If anyone has any real problems booking because of cash inventory -- as opposed to theoretical potential issues flowing mainly from their lack of understanding of their own timeshare -- I'd love to hear them.

OK Jim I'll give you one but we are in general agreement on this issue.

We always plan 11 months in advance (see countdown below) but for the first time in almost 9 years of membership, we decided to try and do a last minute four night, long weekend. We could only get two of the nights even though there were rooms available for cash. That being said, I get the system and accept it. The system is the system. Kinda like from the Godfather where Hyman Roth tells Michael "this is the business we've chosen." This is the Timeshare we've chosen.

HBC

[jagson]

Is there a point in time where CRO would trade points back to MS to satisfy a DVC member's request? Maybe, trade current points for future points; say points that CRO can't sell, and will expire? Does CRO ever eat the cash reservations? Do rooms go empty for lack of buyers? If so, why not return the rooms to MS for last moment reservations for DVC membrs? Or is it more complex than it seems to be?

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Is there a point in time where CRO would trade points back to MS to satisfy a DVC member's request?

I don't know if there is a definitive answer to this but I'll give you an example of an experience we had.

When we originally purchased we were staying for eight nights (I think, it was a while ago). Three nights into the trip we did a tour and purchased DVC on one condition. I told them we would only do it if we could switch the rest of the trip to the points we just purchased. Our Guide made that happen somehow and what I was going to spend on the room, instead went to a down payment on the DVC. We stayed our last four or five nights on points. This was during the busy Presidents' week in February. Maybe DVC and CRO have an arangement for just such an occasion but there were supposedly no point rooms available until someone made one available.

HBC

[jbrowna]

Tina- thanks for trying to understand and offering a solution idea (even though we know it wont happen! LOL!)
We have traded out twice in 8 years but plan to later as our kids get older. So we would not want a different membership. But any idea is better than no idea! :goodvibes

Still it comes down to a simple issue, members being shut out while ANYONE can stay at a DVC resort. Despite all the explanations and justifications for it, it is still frustrating and annoying to pay membership and dues and be asked to pay more out of pocket for a room.

The fact is members aren't "shut out". Like anyone else, they can rent those traded out rooms for cash. True, they can't use points, but in essence the points have already been used in a trade.

To me, any proposed solution is much worse than the problem. :scared1:

[Dean]

Is there a point in time where CRO would trade points back to MS to satisfy a DVC member's request? Maybe, trade current points for future points; say points that CRO can't sell, and will expire? Does CRO ever eat the cash reservations? Do rooms go empty for lack of buyers? If so, why not return the rooms to MS for last moment reservations for DVC membrs? Or is it more complex than it seems to be?There are several pools of rooms/points where cash reservations is possible. Some DVC has some access to and some they do not. For some they have access to it's possible they can pull back units at times. Cash rooms are comprised of groups that include unsold inventory, rooms reserved with points from bought back contracts, rooms reserved with points used for exchange, and breakage inventory. Breakage inventory is USUALLY under 60 days when units are unreserved but it does not have to be as DVC can anticipate breakage inventory and make it available as early as 11 months out. The first two are likely the origin of developer points. DVD and CRO will let the rooms sit empty rather than using them in this way. I know this sounds like a waste but it is a valid business model when you look at the big picture. One thing they could do, which many other points systems do, is allow you to rent extra points on a one time basis which is somewhat different than getting cash units through MS but can have a similar effect.

[SuzanneSLO]

I vaguely recall that Jim Lewis said something at the Annual Meeting about complaints about this issue. He said they were trying to work on managing non-member inventory better, but nothing specific.

Based on these comments, I remember thinking that (1) fewer DVC rooms in the most popular times will be transferred to CRO in the first place (think early Dec) and (2) rooms given to CRO might be able to be moved back to DVC depending on expected demand from CRO; i.e., that if the room will not be rented by CRO, DVC could ask for it back to book on points. It seemed like this second issue would help only with very last minute inventory and WLs.

Anyone else recall anything from the meeting or after? -- Suzanne

[JimMIA]

There is one type of situation where I think there has been legitimate conflict between DVC owners and cash customers, although it's not the issue cited by OP. It's the issue of DVC points-stay guests being "walked" by hotel-connected resort management.

In those cases (and I haven't seen one in recent months, but we had a bunch of them a few months ago), DVC points guests arrived for their confirmed reservations and were told there was no room at the inn. They were moved (arbitrarily and without their consent) to alternate resorts/hotels by the resort management. In some cases, the guests received compensation they considered adequate; in other cases no compensation was offered or given. "Too bad, so sad -- forget your confirmation letter, we don't have a room for you."

This phenomenon has only reared its ugly head at hotel resorts (most frequently VWL), and considering the fact that the hotel management runs the front desk, one has to wonder whose interests they were looking out for. It seems like they were looking out for the hotel's bottom line, despite the confirmed DVC reservation, and walking the DVC guest.

I personally think the "CRO has availability, but DVC doesn't" situation is either a bogus issue, or a case where someone just doesn't understand the system.

But I think the pattern of "walking" DVC points guests to lesser accommodations (to make their confirmed villa available for someone else paying big bucks cash) really needs to be looked at. I think it's a clear case of conflict of interest where the hotels' cash flow is taking precedence over the owners' confirmed ressies.

[Dean]

There is one type of situation where I think there has been legitimate conflict between DVC owners and cash customers, although it's not the issue cited by OP. It's the issue of DVC points-stay guests being "walked" by hotel-connected resort management.

In those cases (and I haven't seen one in recent months, but we had a bunch of them a few months ago), DVC points guests arrived for their confirmed reservations and were told there was no room at the inn. They were moved (arbitrarily and without their consent) to alternate resorts/hotels by the resort management. In some cases, the guests received compensation they considered adequate; in other cases no compensation was offered or given. "Too bad, so sad -- forget your confirmation letter, we don't have a room for you."

This phenomenon has only reared its ugly head at hotel resorts (most frequently VWL), and considering the fact that the hotel management runs the front desk, one has to wonder whose interests they were looking out for. It seems like they were looking out for the hotel's bottom line, despite the confirmed DVC reservation, and walking the DVC guest.

I personally think the "CRO has availability, but DVC doesn't" situation is either a bogus issue, or a case where someone just doesn't understand the system.

But I think the pattern of "walking" DVC points guests to lesser accommodations (to make their confirmed villa available for someone else paying big bucks cash) really needs to be looked at. I think it's a clear case of conflict of interest where the hotels' cash flow is taking precedence over the owners' confirmed ressies.While it's been reported here a few times, I don't believe I've seen any info that would suggest this is related to cash guests being behind this in any way. The info I recall concentrated on the the resort simply being "overbooked" which usually happens when units go out of service unexpectedly or if there is a VIP they don't feel they can say no to. I don't recall the VWL issues but two at BCV where one was given a 3 BR at OKW (their home resort) and another a BWI room with Concierge access if my memory serves me.

[Lexxiefern]

OP - I get where you are coming from. And to a point I agree with you. I was on a waitlist for a 1 bedroom for 3 nights this past september. I could only get SSR (and I did book that). I checked the disney website and I could get boardwalk for my dates. My waitlist never came through and that room was still available on my arrival day. It really burned my butt that I could not book that room on points. I too understand the reasonings behind it and accept them, but I don't have to like it.

Basically I did not get the room I wanted because it was a last minute trip. We went and had a great time at SSR. But I do wish there was some way that CRO could shift the room back to DVC instead of letting it sit empty.

[CarolA]

While it's been reported here a few times, I don't believe I've seen any info that would suggest this is related to cash guests being behind this in any way. The info I recall concentrated on the the resort simply being "overbooked" which usually happens when units go out of service unexpectedly or if there is a VIP they don't feel they can say no to. I don't recall the VWL issues but two at BCV where one was given a 3 BR at OKW (their home resort) and another a BWI room with Concierge access if my memory serves me.

Disney... free free to walk to a Concerige room anytime. Unlike some members I promise not to complain!:lmao:

[Scott]

Disney... free free to walk to a Concerige room anytime. Unlike some members I promise not to complain!:lmao:

Boy, I would not be laughing if they walked me and my 3 kids from a 2 bd villa to a regular size hotel room...concierge service or not.
Scott

[KirstenB]

OP, I get it, you're just venting. FWIW, we've never traded out, in 15 yrs of membership, so I can relate to your frustration.:hug:

[DebbieB]

Disney... free free to walk to a Concerige room anytime. Unlike some members I promise not to complain!:lmao:

But they were moved from AKV concierge. They had to fight to get the BWV concierge, DVC just wanted to move them to SSR.

[mandjblum]

MS told me they only had openings at SSR.

So I am confused becasue there were rooms available? Just not where you wanted to stay? So as a DVC member you had the option to use your points. I am just trying to understand the argument.

[spiceycat]

. Just today I checked for a last minute ressie for this month. MS told me they only had openings at SSR.

that is your problem. the more members that DVC gets and they are getting more daily - the harder last minute trips will be.

don't give up - just call each and every day - cancellation might happen - but until then be happy you have SSR. Most of the time you won't find anything.

Jan is no longer an easy month to get.

May or Sept - still are.

to get a last minute trip to DVC - you must be very, very flexible and would take anything. It doesn't sound like you were willing to do either.

don't even look at the cash rooms on CRO (DTC) - they have nothing to do with DVC. (okay the last 60 days any unused villa will be transfer to CRO)

might call back and see if you find a MS with more experience - don't think all the new ones understand all the rules. If it was transfer to CRO in the last 60 days - DVC can get it back. but the MS you are dealing with must know how to find these and transfer them back to DVC.

this takes time - so be prepared to be on the phone for a long, long time - once it took more than 45 minutes to do this.

the most members the least available for last minute trips.

[Dean]

But they were moved from AKV concierge. They had to fight to get the BWV concierge, DVC just wanted to move them to SSR.
I think she was referring to my reference of a member displaced from a BCV studio to a BWI concierge. The other went from a 2 BR at BCV to a 3 BR at OKW and got points back if I recall correctly. The unfortunate thing was that the member that got OKW in replacement owned at OKW and they told them originally they were displacing them because they owned at another resort and weren't all to nice about it as it was portrayed. As I noted, this is my recollection but sometimes fantasy can be better than fact. I don't recall seeing any from VWL but then I've been off and on the BBS over the last year with travels, etc.

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I think she was referring to my reference of a member displaced from a BCV studio to a BWI concierge. The other went from a 2 BR at BCV to a 3 BR at OKW and got points back if I recall correctly. The unfortunate thing was that the member that got OKW in replacement owned at OKW and they told them originally they were displacing them because they owned at another resort and weren't all to nice about it as it was portrayed. As I noted, this is my recollection but sometimes fantasy can be better than fact. I don't recall seeing any from VWL but then I've been off and on the BBS over the last year with travels, etc.

Dean,

I remember seeing the one about Vwl several months ago. IF memory serves me correctly, I think the DVC owner had given the reservation to a friend or possibly even raffled it off for charity, I'm not sure.

Anyway, the people got moved to a regular room at WL with NO compensation at all. The owners did not find out about the situation until after the fact. In the same thread, it seems like somebody else got bumped at WL that had a 1 or 2 bedroom and had brought food. I do not recall the outcome on this situation, or even if this was just brought up as a possibility during the thread. Either way, there was at least 1 episode at WL, and it wasn't pretty.