Big 3 Bailout

[bradisgoofy]

I am about to be laid off indefinably because of the Big 3 auto makers not selling vehicles. It doesn't help that many Americans keep buying foreign cars. I would like to remind everyone of how much these foreign car makers think of America -

How quickly everyone forgets . . the American car companies were good enough to contribute significantly to the Red Cross following 9/11, but when they are in their own emergency situation they are swept aside and ignored by people who very well may have benefited from their generosity.

An interesting commentary...You might find this of interest:

CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.

The findings are as follows....

1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi-Nothing.

8. BMW-Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat-Nothing.

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001

12. Isuzu- Nothing.

13. Mitsubishi-Nothing.

14. Nissan-Nothing.

15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.

16. Subaru- Nothing.

17. Suzuki- Nothing.

18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States ...

It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention..

[MicahGinaShannonBret]

you're goofy for sure, or maybe that is an understatement. that is an untrue email that's been circulated for years (gosh, you even pasted the exact one from the debunk site)

reality is ------------ go to red cross's site. furthermore, remember that those are COMPANIES, not CHARITIES. GO TO -

www.redcross.org/news/ds/0109wtc/donationwork/myths.html

and below further you can read it anyway. THAT IS THE OFFICIAL RED CROSS SITE. Not your fake email rumor forwarding copy and paste.

Also a reminder to you that many many "american" automakers now manufacture out of the USA. A few examples - the Cadillac Escalade is ENTIRE in Ramos, Mexico now. Believe me, I know. Want the long list of others? And why are they now in Mexico? with many parts even made overseas and shipped in instead of the (example- Gm or Ford) spinoff companies of those manufacturers?
U
W
A
and everyone knows it but the radicals of course still want to try to justify the gluttony of the
U
W
A
and their "brothers and sisters " that have gotten the USA in a good portion of the mess it is in.

$80+ in wages and benefits per hour compared to $30 in wages and benefits per hour is a big difference. Billions of bucks in U A W hotshot pockets while "members" lost jobs , homes and families, hmm... that's real "leadership" The loyalty of some radical U A W posters is perhaps admirable (COUGH) but misplaced obviously.


HERE"S THE RED CROSS SITE -----------
www.redcross.org/news/ds/0109wtc/donationwork/myths.html


From the Red Cross itself----------
A number of myths have been misreported in the media lately. The American Red Cross feels that it is important that these myths be addressed and dispelled.

If you gave the American Red Cross a donation with the intention of helping this nation heal from a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions, rest assured that it will be used for its intended purpose.
MYTH:
No foreign automobile manufacturers provided support for Red Cross relief efforts after the tragedies of September 11.

A e-mail from an unknown source has been widely circulated that improperly references a CNN Headline News article about automobile manufactures' support of charities after September 11. This e-mail falsely states that foreign automobile manufacturers have not supported charitable relief agencies responding to those impacted by the terrorist attacks.
TRUTH-
The Red Cross alone has received millions of dollars toward its relief efforts for the tragedies of September 11. In addition to the following corporate gifts, individual dealerships may also have supported these efforts locally.
TRUTH-
Below is a list of automobile manufacturers (both foreign and domestic) that supported American Red Cross relief efforts following September 11.

BMW

$1 million contribution to the American Red Cross
donated 10 SUVs with an estimated worth of $445,000 for American Red Cross relief efforts
Ford Motor Company

$1 million contribution to the American Red Cross
General Motors

$1 million contribution to the American Red Cross
Harley-Davidson, Inc.

$1 million contribution to the American Red Cross
Honda Family of Companies

$969,442 contribution to the American Red Cross
Mitsubishi International Corporation

$1 million contribution to the American Red Cross
Nissan North America, Inc.

$500,000 contribution to the American Red Cross
Toyota

$1 million contribution to the American Red Cross
Toyota's North American affiliates, including Toyota Tsusho Corporation, Toyota Tsusho America, Toyota dealerships and Lexus dealerships raised a total of $891,746.93 for the American Red Cross
Subaru of America, Inc., and its parent, Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.

$532,000 contribution to the American Red Cross

[graciejane]

So sorry to hear you will be laid off soon. The shop my husband works at laid off 80% of their employees 2 weeks before Christmas, directly because the big 3 and the lack of auto sales. If they aren't selling cars, many many many people will be out of work. We are grateful that he is going back to work next week but don't know for how long it will be. Hopefully things will turn around soon. Saying a prayer for you and your family.

[stacktester]

Myth or not, too many jobs are being lost in this country due to companies sending jobs that were here to other countries. If Obama wants to tax something, tax the company until they quit sending work overseas. It's time America starts taking care of it's own people and not others. I'm not saying just make it all for us and be stingy, but we need stability here first.

[vick]

Everyone blames the UAW for the Big 3 problems. Unless you are a member and know what UAW members are actually getting paid and the benefits they actually get, you have NO RIGHT to post negative lies about them. My dh worked 24 years and was a member of the UAW. Yes, they were good to us, but he didn't make anywhere close to what everyone thinks. Over the years, we lost a lot of benefits, especially healthcare. My dh worked for Delphi. When they were in 'bankruptcy" procedures, the CEO and upper level management got millions of dollars in bonuses. It isn't the workers that have caused problems. It's management. Until you know what is actually going on, don't post negative lies about UAW workers!

[auntie]

I'm interested in the various viewpoints regarding this subject. However, I'd ask that the newcomer to the board(if that's what you are) do so in a civil and respectful manner. Name calling..only diminshes the validity of your position.
Welcome to the board.

[BRDof3]

I personally would like the new poster to use their usual name. This one was created purely to make that one post. Makes it hard to have a civil discussion that way.

[graciejane]

Myth or not, too many jobs are being lost in this country due to companies sending jobs that were here to other countries. If Obama wants to tax something, tax the company until they quit sending work overseas. It's time America starts taking care of it's own people and not others. I'm not saying just make it all for us and be stingy, but we need stability here first.


Amen to that!!

[auntie]

I personally would like the new poster to use their usual name. This one was created purely to make that one post. Makes it hard to have a civil discussion that way.


There was a second post..I'm glad to see it was removed. ;)

[vick]

There was a second post..I'm glad to see it was removed. ;)

Ditto!

[LONE-STAR]

Sorry to hear about you losing your job. Just have to say I have always bought American made vehicles and always will. 1 chevy (3/4 ton4x4)
2 dodges (3/4ton 4x4) 3 ford (1 ton 4x4) 1 mustang and 1 jeep 4x4. Thats mine and my wifes combine vehicles so far that we have owned and traded. My point is there is no other choice but to buy American vehicles because Americans are the only ones making real vehicles. For example last I checked Honda does not offer a truck to pull a 12 thousand pound toy hauler.

[vick]

Sorry to hear you're getting laid off too Brad. I was so annoyed by the mistruths of the deleted posts, that I forget to mention that. I hope things look up for you soon!

[4mickey2]

the company i work for is also directly related to the big3.. we have had a lot of folks get fired over the past year and yes about 30 more got let go two weeks before christmas. we don't have a clue what will happen when we return from our madatory 2 week shut down.

but, not only has our company released people from our usa plants, they also got rid of (if i remember correctly) 20% of their employees in china and india and i believe it was 50% of the workers in mexico..

so, it isn't just hitting the usa. this is definitely a global problem that my employer is dealing with. so, i don't feel it is all about work going out of our country. it doesn't help but, they feel it too..

[2goofycampers]

:grouphug:

I know there is nothing I can say to help you and your family feel better. If you need to vent or talk we are here and on John's chat site for you.

[Flametamr]

Brad, I'm sorry that you personally are loosing your job. But the fact is no matter what I buy can't change that. Just like that fact that we have already given hundreds of billions to financial institutions and have nothing to show for it. The same thing will happen after we bail out the Big 3. They will talk a good game and squander the money just like they have all along. Then they will be back wanting more. Watch and see. Detroit management is stuck in the past and refuses to see the future. They have resisted changing things and fought legislation for years demanding higher mileage cars. Foreign companies have done nothing more than provide a quality products that people want. That is not unamerican. That is good business.

Has anyone thought about the fact that our next president is considering throwing 750 billion dollars after the 500 billion we have already wasted. There are only about 300 million people in America. That means the US Government could just deposit 4 million in each persons bank account and solve everything and still spend less money. There would be no more private debt. No instead were gonna give it to corporations who have already stolen us blind and went bankrupt doing so. Only in America does this make sense.

I see no difference in the Big 3 and the guy who owns the corner store. Everyone says we have to save corporations because they are so big and effect so many people. Well maybe that where the problem is. They are too big to manage themselves. Anyone in management knows it's easy to run things when business is good. It takes real talent to do it when it's bad. I think it's time these grossly over paid corporate giants fall on their own swords and stay out of my wallet.

[Judy Judy Judy]

Myth or not, too many jobs are being lost in this country due to companies sending jobs that were here to other countries. If Obama wants to tax something, tax the company until they quit sending work overseas. It's time America starts taking care of it's own people and not others. I'm not saying just make it all for us and be stingy, but we need stability here first.

Really this is how I also feel in a nut shell, we are so busy with everyone else around the world I think we should clear up some of our " at home " issues first!!!!!!!!!!

Brad, Godspeed my dh is facing the same problem, it's a very scary time for us!

[Gatordad]

The problem with giving Big 3 any money is that they have made no effort to change their business model. It's like $1500 of the price of each chevy goes to retirees. There is a unique socio-economic climate in Detroit/Michigan. Unfortunately, giving them money without asking them to change is like giving the town drunk a sawbuck, and he spends it on booze. In the morning, he's lived another day, and wasted $10 on booze with nothing to show for it.

Unfortunately, I say let them either change or fail.

RIP Milton Friedman.

[Born 2 Fish]

Well, as you know, EVERYTHING you read on the internet and EVERYTHING you see and hear on the "NEWS" , truly is the gospel from the mouth of god
himself.:lmao:

I can tell you this much,,
I am out of a job right now and it's the fault of space aliens and
Obama (even tho he hasn't taken office yet). I know this to be true because I read it somewhere. And from what I've read, neither of them have contributed squat to American companies, America, or anyother part of the world for that matter.

Thank you for letting me vent.




Oh,,, and would someone mind buying a new house so I'll have something to do.
Thanks

[des1954]

Frank...I'd buy a house from you, but my request to change my last name to "Bank" or "Auto" has gotten stuck in the quickmire of the legal system. I figured it would be relatively easy to change my last name & claim my share of the bail-out, but my lawyer charges $250 per minute to review my claim and that's after his paralegal has earned her $125 per minute. Therefore, all my money has been stuck in the legal system, which by the way, doesn't seem to be having any financial difficulty at all! Why's that?

Seriously folks, think about this.

Back in the 70's, the steel industry crumbled in the U.S. No bail-outs or assistance was offered to them. Now, we have the auto industry crumbling before our eyes. This country is becoming a sitting duck for a military invasion. Without our own steel and our own means of manufacturing weaponry, how will we protect ourselves? With the majority of banks being controlled by foreign investors, how will we fund the production of armament?

It's a very frightening thought when you expand the losses to their full ramifications.

BTW Brad, I'm very sorry to hear what is happening to you. It really personalizes the situation when you know someone who is losing their job in the auto industry.

[bradisgoofy]

It's nice to see my "friends" come to my defense and I know that my original post is from the Internet and "may" not have all the facts. But, I posted to show the DISboard community that ALL of us are effected by the BIG 3s problems not just those working directly for GM, Ford or Chrysler.

God Bless you for your good wishes to me and my family. :cloud9:

[bigdisneydaddy]

The fact that gets lost in all the rhetoric is that GM failed to fund a long term obligation that they incurred years ago. Much like Social security has done, they have passed the obligation down to the next generation and unfortunately the time is at hand to deal with it.
GM made promises to their workers and then did not fund them, that is the short story. I have been in some of the stink holes that GM has operated, the only way that people would work in these places was to give them benefits. One of the nastiest filthiest places on earth was the old foundry in Pontiac (plant 43) it literally was like hell on earth, filthy dirty and stank like high heaven, people werent exactly lining up to work there.
As for Petes comment about Detroit/Michigan and its culture, he is exactly right, there is a culture here, much like anywhere else in America it varies by region, is it changing, yes it is, does it have more change coming, probably yes. Dont think that your area/culture wont be the next (not directed specifically at Pete) everyone wants to slay someone elses sacred cow, maybe theirs is next ?
The part that often gets left out of the domestic vs foreign plant debate is the fact that most of the foreign mfg plants got built where the tax breaks were the biggest, while that is good for the business it also raises the question of whol will pay for infrastructure and public services ? Since the municipality lacks the tax revenue who will pay for the water/sewer treatment, roads, police and fire ? that burden falls more solidly on the citizen since the business has a reduced tax burden. Is that a bad thing ? its debatable, but it should be part of the discussion.

[stacktester]

Very well put Scott.

[djblu883]

Brad I'm Sorry you have lost your job and hope you can re train in something quickly that will help your family ...I've been so happily posting 2 new jobs for myself and you don't have one....You and your family are in my prayers!!!

[Tnbob]

Thank you Scott for telling the story that a lot of people ignore, the real jobs. People see on TV these clean assembly lines with people walking around at a snails pace, these pictures were probably taken during a start up or break time, when that line is running its extreamly hard to keep up with. The real jobs are far more diverse than assembly, as Scott stated foundries and machining jobs are hot and dirty and take a great deal of skill and to some extent bravery. Hot molten steel and alum flowing by is not a job for everyone and yes they are part of the work that is done by UAW people in auto plants. The $80 an hour deal is just way out of line and for people to believe it is even worse. In the spirt of full disclosure I am a retired GM worker who got 30 years in and got out, I have the scars on my neck and arms to prove it, no amount of money makes up for the "after effects" of any repetive job in the auto industry or any other industry, thank you for letting me vent. and forgive my spelling






The fact that gets lost in all the rhetoric is that GM failed to fund a long term obligation that they incurred years ago. Much like Social security has done, they have passed the obligation down to the next generation and unfortunately the time is at hand to deal with it.
GM made promises to their workers and then did not fund them, that is the short story. I have been in some of the stink holes that GM has operated, the only way that people would work in these places was to give them benefits. One of the nastiest filthiest places on earth was the old foundry in Pontiac (plant 43) it literally was like hell on earth, filthy dirty and stank like high heaven, people werent exactly lining up to work there.
As for Petes comment about Detroit/Michigan and its culture, he is exactly right, there is a culture here, much like anywhere else in America it varies by region, is it changing, yes it is, does it have more change coming, probably yes. Dont think that your area/culture wont be the next (not directed specifically at Pete) everyone wants to slay someone elses sacred cow, maybe theirs is next ?
The part that often gets left out of the domestic vs foreign plant debate is the fact that most of the foreign mfg plants got built where the tax breaks were the biggest, while that is good for the business it also raises the question of whol will pay for infrastructure and public services ? Since the municipality lacks the tax revenue who will pay for the water/sewer treatment, roads, police and fire ? that burden falls more solidly on the citizen since the business has a reduced tax burden. Is that a bad thing ? its debatable, but it should be part of the discussion.

[ntsammy5]

I know quite a few people in the automotive industry who have or will lose their jobs. Good luck, Brad

[BRDof3]

Brad, I'm pulling for you man! My employer bought another company in 2007, and I spent the next year-and-a-half dreading every call or email from corporate as the ax was weilded and heads rolled all over the country. Got near enough to the ragged egde that I don't want to know just how close it was. Things are somewhat more stable right now, but I know that's not worth the price of a cup of water.

We are trying to live our life as we worry about the future, and that gets TOUGH. Hang in there, and remember that you have a wide support net when you need to vent, or just have some friends around you. I can't make it better with a wave of the wand, I wish I could. :hippie:

[Gatordad]

The fact that gets lost in all the rhetoric is that GM failed to fund a long term obligation that they incurred years ago. Much like Social security has done, they have passed the obligation down to the next generation and unfortunately the time is at hand to deal with it.
GM made promises to their workers and then did not fund them, that is the short story. I have been in some of the stink holes that GM has operated, the only way that people would work in these places was to give them benefits. One of the nastiest filthiest places on earth was the old foundry in Pontiac (plant 43) it literally was like hell on earth, filthy dirty and stank like high heaven, people werent exactly lining up to work there.
As for Petes comment about Detroit/Michigan and its culture, he is exactly right, there is a culture here, much like anywhere else in America it varies by region, is it changing, yes it is, does it have more change coming, probably yes. Dont think that your area/culture wont be the next (not directed specifically at Pete) everyone wants to slay someone elses sacred cow, maybe theirs is next ?
The part that often gets left out of the domestic vs foreign plant debate is the fact that most of the foreign mfg plants got built where the tax breaks were the biggest, while that is good for the business it also raises the question of whol will pay for infrastructure and public services ? Since the municipality lacks the tax revenue who will pay for the water/sewer treatment, roads, police and fire ? that burden falls more solidly on the citizen since the business has a reduced tax burden. Is that a bad thing ? its debatable, but it should be part of the discussion.


what I meant by socio-economic is the fact that you have folks making 80K+ that have no advanced degrees or skills. they can't pick up and move to anywhere else in country and find a job paying similar. They are trapped in MI.
And unfortunately, as the big 3 goes, so does that entire state/region. Until they change the model, it's going to be bad news. The Unions and the
Company need to sit down and figure a way to salvage what they have. It's going to come from both sides.

[bigdisneydaddy]

what I meant by socio-economic is the fact that you have folks making 80K+ that have no advanced degrees or skills. they can't pick up and move to anywhere else in country and find a job paying similar. They are trapped in MI.
And unfortunately, as the big 3 goes, so does that entire state/region. Until they change the model, it's going to be bad news. The Unions and the
Company need to sit down and figure a way to salvage what they have. It's going to come from both sides.


I agree completely that the model HAS to change and it will require a combination effort. GM has long been plagued by poor management (as so many companies are) and a lack of foresight.
I have known many people that worked the line at GM, I dont know anyone that was making 80K a year unless they were working 10-12 hr days and lots of overtime. The people I do know that made that much were either management or skilled trades which satisfies both of the requisites you discussed.
GM has lacked the discipline to rein in the excesses of the union because they themselves were not willing to follow the same course. When times were good they should have been scrapping old outdated inefficient plants and building new ones, we all know how that played out. Their parts distribution system is a model of inefficiency and always has been, thats why they cant compete with non OEM suppliers. There was a day when genuine GM parts actually meant something, in this day I dont think it does. When every GM model uses a different power window switch and different electrical connectors that hardly speaks for a streamlined efficient operation.

[vick]

My dh was in skilled trades and he did get a degree. The only way he made 80 thousand was by working 12 hours 7 days a week. He had to do quite a bit of that over the years. That's the one thing we don't miss!

I'm not sure how the misconception got started about the UAW workers making so much. They do get paid more than at other plants in the area and the working conditions are a lot better than at most plants, but the pay difference isn't nearly what most people think for assembly line workers.

[PolynesianPixie]

Brad I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. My thoughts and prayers are with you!

[BRDof3]

The thing that skews the picture as far as salary figures is that it includes salary, taxes, benefits (your cost and the employer's), admin, Work Comp costs and exposures, paid leave, holidays, etc. The actual hourly rate is a small part of the total picture for a corporation like this.

[Gatordad]

According to briefing materials prepared by General Motors, "The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked."



UAW workers are highly paid, but not all this compensation comes as cash wages. Breaking the $73.26 figure down, General Motors reports that it pays base wages of roughly $30 an hour. At the end of December 2006, the average vehicle assembler at GM earned $28.02 an hour; the average machine repair electrician earned $32.43.[2]

Other provisions raise cash earnings above this base pay. For example, workers at Ford earn 10 percent premium payments for taking midnight shifts and double time for overtime hours worked on Sundays.[3]

Autoworkers put in substantial overtime hours at higher rates, raising earnings above their base pay. GM reported that its average hourly employee worked 315 overtime hours in 2006. Including all monetary payments--base wages, shift premiums, overtime pay, as well as vacation and holiday pay--GM reported an average hourly pay of $39.68 an hour in 2006.[4] About 54 percent of the average UAW employee at GM's earnings came in cash in 2006.

Earned Benefits

The remaining $33.58 an hour of hourly labor costs that GM reports--46 percent of total compensation--was paid as benefits. These benefits include[5]:

Hospital, surgical, and prescription drug benefits;
Dental and vision benefits;
Group life insurance;
Disability benefits;
Supplemental Unemployment Benefits (SUB);
Pension payments to workers pensions accounts to be paid out at retirement;
Unemployment compensation; and
Payroll taxes (employer's share).
These benefits cost the Detroit automakers significant amounts of money. Critics contend that these benefit figures include the cost of providing retirement and health benefits to currently retired workers, not just benefits for current workers. Since there are more retired than active employees this makes it appear that GM employees earn far more than they actually do.

This contention contradicts the plain meaning of what the automakers have reported in SEC filings and in their public statements and would be contrary to generally accepted accounting principles.

[ntsammy5]

I think we need a good SOX audit here. The problem is there are so many different reports out there, all conflicting - no one knows for sure what the wages are or for that matter what the problem is. Let's ask Bernie Madoff for his opinion! As for GAAP, :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: .

This is a lose, lose situation - no one will win, no matter what is done.

[vick]

My dh must have been below average. He was at the top of the skilled trades pay and he didn't make $32 an hour. They did get time and a half pay for every hour over 40 and double time for any hours worked on a Sunday, whether it put them over 40 or not.

The retiree health plan sux, to put it mildly. It costs us nearly $400 just to get a physical. I haven't had one in several years because of that. Quite a few dentists won't take our insurance, because it doesn't pay them enough. Right now, we are looking for a new dentist. And, there are no good vision places here that take our insurance now.

Like I said in an earlier post, I am thankful for all we had while dh was working for GM. It just irks me to hear them say they have no money while still giving out billions of dollars to the CEO and upper level management as bonuses. The UAW is not the problem. The problem is in management. Why do they reward management for the poor decisions they have made?

[jugman]

GM still paid christmas bonuses this year. I don't think many companies did that were having money woes.

[Gatordad]

Both sides need to be a partner in this solution. Without it, both are failed.

[vick]

Both sides need to be a partner in this solution. Without it, both are failed.

I agree Pete.

[bigdisneydaddy]

Anyone can make anything they want using the right statistics.

[AuburnJen92]

Anyone can make anything they want using the right statistics.

Isn't that what the media is famous for?:confused3

[drafthorsecrazy]

My dh must have been below average. He was at the top of the skilled trades pay and he didn't make $32 an hour. They did get time and a half pay for every hour over 40 and double time for any hours worked on a Sunday, whether it put them over 40 or not.

The retiree health plan sux, to put it mildly. It costs us nearly $400 just to get a physical. I haven't had one in several years because of that. Quite a few dentists won't take our insurance, because it doesn't pay them enough. Right now, we are looking for a new dentist. And, there are no good vision places here that take our insurance now.

Like I said in an earlier post, I am thankful for all we had while dh was working for GM. It just irks me to hear them say they have no money while still giving out billions of dollars to the CEO and upper level management as bonuses. The UAW is not the problem. The problem is in management. Why do they reward management for the poor decisions they have made?

I could have written this post! We are in the same position with our GM retiree benefits. Its a sad day when the very people who worked all their lives and built up a company are now in retirement and have to worry about the healthcare they were promised.

Proud Retired American Auto Worker's Wife.

[MarkBarbieri]

Has anyone thought about the fact that our next president is considering throwing 750 billion dollars after the 500 billion we have already wasted. There are only about 300 million people in America. That means the US Government could just deposit 4 million in each persons bank account and solve everything and still spend less money. There would be no more private debt. No instead were gonna give it to corporations who have already stolen us blind and went bankrupt doing so. Only in America does this make sense.

I think your math is off. We're talking about $1,250 billion divided by 0.3 billion people. That works out $4,167 per person. That's not pocket change, but it's also not enough to eliminate most people's debts.

[disney4dan]

Brad, I'm truly sorry to hear of your job loss. I too remember when there was a GM plant here in Massachusetts and how devastating the late 1970's and early 1980's were financially. Our country has been through this before and will get through this again. It will not be easy and I wish all of us luck and hope we all keep focused on what really matters.

I did think long and hard about which vehicles I have purchased since I saw how the tough economic times hit the construction industry (where my father's career was) in the late 1970's into the 1980's. He spent many years working overseas to provide for us after losing his company during the economic slow down then. I think that the fundamental principals of capitolism (sp?) should not be messed with. There are very few things that government agencies fix well when dealing with private sector. Once they sink their teeth into an industry, will it help them in the long run?

What still confuses me is how our largest companies tend to trade CEOs like an exclusive club. I never paid attention to those things until I met my now FIL who worked for GE. During the 1980s he warned us about what he saw happening (GE licensing all products to overseas companies) and the great shell game of CEOs for one large company sitting on the board of directors for other companies, everyone watching out for each other. I used to pass that off as paranoid fantasy, but see that the current CEO of Chrysler was the former CEO of The Home Depot who got pushed out the door with a huge golden parachute? How do you interview a guy like that? What kinds of questions get asked? That is clearly not the fault of the UAW, but it really bothers me that this seems like deja-vu all over again. Anyone else remember Lee Iaccoca? Am I showing my age?

Forgive the ramble. I have no clue on the solution to this problem. I honestly wish all the hard working UAW employees and those who rely on the Big 3 for work.

[bradisgoofy]

I posted this same question on the Community board and the replies really got viscous to the point I won't go back and read the tread anymore. The one thing I would like to say besides Thanks for your support is, if you are in the market for a new vehicle ( solid job and have the money ) please consider a vehicle from the BIG 3. I know not everyone of them are built in the states, but the profits come back to the states. And a vast majority of their suppliers are companies here in the states. You're not just supporting the BIG 3, you are supporting people like me who work for their suppliers.

Happy New Year and God Bless.

[des1954]

The only foreign cars I have purchased were back in the 1970's. I bought a 1976 Celica & a 1978 Celica. While they were fun to drive, they had too many problems & were expensive to repair.

Since then I've owned Fords, Chryslers, & GM's. Sad to say that out of the three, GM's (the 3 I owned) were POS's. I had a Chrysler New Yorker that I bought new in 1987 & drove 130K miles with a few nit-picky things. My Fords? The only bad one I had was a 1987 Taurus (bought new in Sept 86) & was so bad I traded it in on the 87 New Yorker. Ford decided to use a new alloy in their head bolts that year which was a disaster. That was also the same alloy used on the Challenger.

I currently drive a 1997 (bought in 96) Explorer Eddie Bauer which is my dream vehicle. By that I mean it is as reliable as ever. It has 170K miles and again - no major repairs. My DH keeps asking if I want a new car. NO WAY!!! I know what I have & am willing to keep it for as long as it will run.

I had a 1999 Grand Marquis which I put 150k miles on with no major repairs. We traded that on a 2006 Lincoln Zephyr which my DH drives. It has 58K miles and as of yet, no problems.

Will I ever buy a foreign car again? Not as long as we have American options.

[ntsammy5]

The only foreign cars I have purchased were back in the 1970's.


I thought about buying a foreign car once, but never did. My daughter has 2 Kias though and daughter 2 has a Toyota and a Subaru.

[ftwildernessguy]

I fell into Lee Iacocca's trap back in the 80's when he was on TV all the time encouraging people to buy american and support Chrysler. I bought a Plymouth Voyager and the only thing american about it was the guy at the dealership, and I'm not too sure about him. Granted, the electronics were from central "america" (Mexico) and the thing was assembled in north america (Canada), but the engine and transmission were from Japan. Two months after I owned it the big sliding side door fell off. Then the speedometer quit and wasn't covered by warranty, so that cost me a few hundred bucks to fix. Since then I have owned mostly US cars (Ford trucks, a ford Tempo which was a real POS) then I bought a couple of VW's which were built in Mexico and were great until they hit about 65,000 miles and I couldn't afford the 500 bucks a month it cost to fix the annoying things that went wrong with them. I just bought a Mazda 3 and so far so good. I still like my Ford truck - built in Virginia - and don't think there is any foreign truck that can compare as far as reliability, towing capacity, and value. I would buy American if the darned things were reliable and actually built here. Personally, I think before ANY taxpayer money is turned over to the Big 3, they should be forced to close all their plants in Mexico and Canada and move their production back into the US. Then, instead of turning out poorly engineered crap, they need to focus on quality engineering and materials so the cars are worth what they expect us to pay for them.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I fell into Lee Iacocca's trap back in the 80's when he was on TV all the time encouraging people to buy american and support Chrysler. I bought a Plymouth Voyager and the only thing american about it was the guy at the dealership, and I'm not too sure about him. Granted, the electronics were from central "america" (Mexico) and the thing was assembled in north america (Canada), but the engine and transmission were from Japan. Two months after I owned it the big sliding side door fell off. Then the speedometer quit and wasn't covered by warranty, so that cost me a few hundred bucks to fix. Since then I have owned mostly US cars (Ford trucks, a ford Tempo which was a real POS) then I bought a couple of VW's which were built in Mexico and were great until they hit about 65,000 miles and I couldn't afford the 500 bucks a month it cost to fix the annoying things that went wrong with them. I just bought a Mazda 3 and so far so good. I still like my Ford truck - built in Virginia - and don't think there is any foreign truck that can compare as far as reliability, towing capacity, and value. I would buy American if the darned things were reliable and actually built here. Personally, I think before ANY taxpayer money is turned over to the Big 3, they should be forced to close all their plants in Mexico and Canada and move their production back into the US. Then, instead of turning out poorly engineered crap, they need to focus on quality engineering and materials so the cars are worth what they expect us to pay for them.


I heard from a reliable source last year that Chrysler was having major problems with their component suppliers and that most of their quality issues were related to failures in various parts they purchase. All of the domestic mfg have squeezed their suppliers so tight that many are going under, this has been going on for several years. What we have now is essenitially 3 domestic parts assembling companies, less and less is actually made by the auto company, instead they purchase the components and just put them together.
IMHO electronics parts are the biggest issue with any vehicle these days. Theya re expensive to replace, difficult to repair and dont like living in the cold cruel world. I have a 99 Chevy truck that I inherited from my Dad, the vast majority of repair expense is for electronics.

[ftwildernessguy]

I heard from a reliable source last year that Chrysler was having major problems with their component suppliers and that most of their quality issues were related to failures in various parts they purchase. All of the domestic mfg have squeezed their suppliers so tight that many are going under, this has been going on for several years. What we have now is essenitially 3 domestic parts assembling companies, less and less is actually made by the auto company, instead they purchase the components and just put them together.
IMHO electronics parts are the biggest issue with any vehicle these days. Theya re expensive to replace, difficult to repair and dont like living in the cold cruel world. I have a 99 Chevy truck that I inherited from my Dad, the vast majority of repair expense is for electronics.

That pretty much sums up my problems with the V dubs. Every time the check engine light comes on, it's a 500 dollar fix involving electronics. The latest was a sensor in the driver's seat belt on the Beetle which was a 379 dollar fix and had to be done or the car wouldn't pass inspection. I had enough and, despite the fact that my wife loved the car because it was cute and fun, I traded the damn thing in on the Mazda on the spot. I did get a really good trade on it because, believe it or not, the VW Beetle convertibles hold their resale value. Go figure. I feel sorry for the poor college kid who talks her Dad into buying that POS for her.

[stacktester]

I had a neighbor with a VW Jetta and they complained pretty much about the same things. Great car til you need service.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I have heard that the VW's had poor service records. I wonder if they will get better after the Chattanooga plant is up and running. One of my co-workers has a brother that just got hired there, GM laid him off and VW snapped him up right away.

[BRDof3]

The thing about a global economy is that "buying American" doesn't keep the profits in America. Corporate profits go to the shareholders, not the building that houses the corporate office. Toyota has shareholders in America, the Big 3 have shareholders in other countries. The all use suppliers and assembly plants in multiple countries. The money goes all over the world no matter whose name is on the back of the vehicle.

Nobody is sitting pretty right now while others suffer. We're all taking a hit. It's happened before, it will happen again. All we can do is all we can do.

[ntsammy5]

The thing about a global economy is that "buying American" doesn't keep the profits in America. Corporate profits go to the shareholders, not the building that houses the corporate office. Toyota has shareholders in America, the Big 3 have shareholders in other countries.

You're a lot smarter than I look

[Born 2 Fish]

Any vehicle that we have purchased has been great, till it needs service.:)