Info. for those purchasing a resale...

[WDWfantasy]

Just found out that our deed recorded yesterday!! Yippee!! We already owned 150 BWV points but just added 150 more. Our original contract was dated April 17th with a projected closing date of June 12th. This was through the Timeshare Store. We DID NOT opt to pay the $45 expediting fee (not sure if the sellers did). We were surprised to get the final papers to sign last week. I just confirmed with our agent and she said that the deed recorded on Tuesday, May 14th. 4 weeks ahead of schedule and LESS THAN 4 weeks from our original offer. I know that there have been posts recently about delays for purchasing resales but I just wanted to share our recent experience for anyone who is just starting or thinking of starting the resale purchasing process. Side note....our agent said that the copy of the deed was faxed to MS yesterday. Wonder when to check to see if the new points are in the system??? Thanks.

:bounce: :Pinkbounc :Pinkbounc :Pinkbounc

[WDWfantasy]

Also, thought I'd mention that for our 150 pt. resale purchase the total closing costs were exactly $400 + reimbursement to seller for maintenance fees for all of the Dec. 2002 points. We did not reimburse the seller for maintenance fees on the Dec. 2001 points that were still available. Hope this info. helps someone.

[schucrew]

If you are in any hurry to use your "new" points, check right away. Ours from our recent resale purchase were in the system BEFORE the deed was recorded, about a week after we closed!

[Doctor P]

I may be missing something here, but I think you DID pay the maintenance fees on the December 2001 points! Let's take a very simple example. If you bought in December 2001, you would have received your 2001 points and would have had to pay the prorated costs from the beginning of your use year until the end of the calendar year (a matter of days). The maintenance fees the seller would have paid during calendar year 2002 would have been for the use of the December 2001 allocation of points. They would not have prepaid more than one month for the 2002 points if they had prepaid their dues. If you paid for more than one month of dues, you did pay for the 2001 use year points (in effect).

[WebmasterDoc]

You can probably go ahead and call MS right away, if the recorded deed was faxed yesterday. Glad you got such good news!

Hopefully, you didn't really reimburse the seller for the Dec 2002 points (which you haven't yet received), but meant you reimbursed them for the 2002 annual dues. If you received all 150 points from the Dec. 2001 use year- then reimbursing the 2002 dues is appropriate. If you did not get all 150 points from 2001 and still paid all of the 2002 dues, be aware that you will get another dues statement in Dec 2002 which will be due in Jan 2003.

Annual dues are due and payable in January each year regardless of use year. They are due by Jan 15 or your first trip- whichever is earliest. You can also have them autodeducted from a checking account- without interest- throughout the year.

[WDWfantasy]

Now you guys are confusing me with this dues thing. The dues that are payed in January are the dues for the points for that year. The dues that I paid in January, 2002 are for the points that I am going to get on Dec. 1, 2002. I know this is so because the last dues that will be paid will be due at the beginning of 2041, as all use years will get their last points during that year. Everything expires on Jan. 31, 2042, and since there are no January use years the last points to be issued will be those with a December use year on Dec. 1, 2041. Know what I mean??:)

[Doctor P]

Nope, WDWFantasy, you do not have a correct understanding of the dues. The dues that were paid from January 1, 2002-December 31, 2002 are for the points that would be in the current use year--those from December 1, 2001. So, it may be reasonable to reimburse the seller for one month's dues if they have prepaid all of the 2002 dues.

[WebmasterDoc]

The dues have nothing to do with use year. They are on an annual basis.

If you purchased a contract with a Dec use year from Disney in Dec 2001- you would have paid 2001 dues on those points- prorated for the 1 month left in the year. You would have paid the same prorated amount of dues if you purchased a March use year in Dec 2001- thru Disney. In Jan 2002, you would then owe the 2002 dues on the points you own for the year 2002- regardless when you will receive them.

Your understanding of the 2041 dues would mean that those with a Feb use year- would get a full year to use their 2041 points- while you will have only 62 days to use yours. That's not a very good deal for you!

Again...the dues are based on a calendar year- NOT use year. When DVC sells a contract, the dues for that year are always prorated based on the remaining time in the year. If you buy the points on July 1- you pay only 6 months of dues- even if it's a Feb use year.

This is often a misunderstood aspect of resales. Many people have reimbursed the seller for points they'll never get to use.

Good luck!

[Doctor P]

Here is another example. Those people with a December use year for BCV will have a 2002 allotment of points that will be made available on December 1, 2002. They will only have to pay one month's dues in 2002 (search for the previous posts on this topic). Under your example, they should have to pay for the whole year (or at least from the closing date of around June 1).

[WDWfantasy]

I don't mean to seem dense here, I'm an accoutant and numbers are my thing. If what you both are saying is true that would mean that the points that I will receive on Dec. 1, 2041, my last points will be free of dues?? That makes no sense to me. You are saying that the dues that I pay in 2041 whether in one lump sum or spread out in payments through the year, will be for the points that I received on Dec. 1, 2040, because they are for use during the year of 2041. I know I will not be staying on points between Dec. 1, 2041 and Jan. 31, 2042, but I do plan to borrow those Dec. 1, 2041 points to use in Dec. of 2040.

[Doctor P]

I don't think anyone knows exactly what is going to happen with the points the last year. If I was going to guess, I would expect that you will not be able to borrow points from the last use year (the one that ends in 2042), but will be able to use them until January 31, 2042. I would also expect that there might not be dues for January 2042, but that is really only a guess. My expectation is that 2041 dues will be just like any other year. In effect, you will be paying one month's dues that would be "attributable" to a month in which you would have your December 2041 points (assuming that they are issued). Again, dues have nothing to do with anything but a calendar year of DVC use.

[WDWfantasy]

Anyway, I'll say no more. I think I'll just enjoy those new points and not sweat the details of the dues. Thanks for the input, I'll call MS tomorrow and see if the points are under our membership number. :D

[kem330]

I think the confusion lies in that the dues you pay in Jan 2041 are for the points you get in Dec 2041 not from 2040. As Doc said, use year does not matter. You are billed in Jan for all use months in that calendar year. I have Dec use year and in the preceding Jan, I pay that years dues. It is true that BCV purchasers with a Dec use year will only pay 1 month of dues in 2002, but that is because the points are not deposited in that account until Dec 1 and I guess they just decided to give us that concession. Normally, Disney prorates dues from date of closing. Jan of 2003 we will be billed again for our 2003 BCV points that we won't officially receive until Dec 1, 2003- although they can be borrowed. As far as resales are concerned, everything is up to negotiation, but normally you would prorate the dues as well, depending on how much time you have use of the points etc. For our BWV resale for example, we purchased in Feb 2001, Dec use year and paid prorated dues for 2001, even though all Dec 2000 points were included. So I guess we got those points dues free.

[Dean]

Originally posted by WDWfantasy
Now you guys are confusing me with this dues thing. The dues that are payed in January are the dues for the points for that year. The dues that I paid in January, 2002 are for the points that I am going to get on Dec. 1, 2002. I know this is so because the last dues that will be paid will be due at the beginning of 2041, as all use years will get their last points during that year. Everything expires on Jan. 31, 2042, and since there are no January use years the last points to be issued will be those with a December use year on Dec. 1, 2041. Know what I mean??:) I'll disagree as well and say the the dues paid in Jan of this year were for 11 months of the 2001 points and 1 month of the 2002 points. I'll also agree that we don't know what will happen the last year or 2 or even if we will get all the points the last year. I can bet those in Dec of 2041 will not get their full allotment of points.

[kem330]

Dean- the way I interpret it is this: Use years is just an inventory control for Disney. Dues are calendar based so we will all pay dues in 2041. I hope Disney is not about to rip off people just because they have a later use month- then those contracts would be devalued if they have one less year of points than other use years. If that is the case, I would not be too happy with my 200 point BCV add on if I am paying for it June 1 like everyone else but won't get the same amount of points over the life of the contract. My guess is there will be heavy borrowing the last year so we have the opportunity to use those points before Jan 2042. I wouldn't be surprised if Disney encouraged that but boy what a nightmare! I hope they have a plan in place to deal with this. Just my take on the situation...:)

[Dean]

I suspect DVC has a plan but they sure haven't shared it with anyone and I suspect it could change a dozen times in the next 39 years. One thing is for certain, everyone can not get all of their points the last year and use them. I suspect that DVC will prorate the last 2 years and the dues accordingly. Say someone owning 200 points would get maybe 300 total in the last 2 years and someone owning 300 points would get 450 points in 2 years. There are other ways of ending this but I'm going on the assumption that DVC will end the very day of 31 Jan, 2042 and not a day later.

[kem330]

Dean I suspect you are basically right- it will be interesting to see what they come up with- I suppose DVD could turn over their inventory to members for a couple of years to up the availability- or offer better incentives to stay in Disney Collection. Well as Doc would say (hope you don't mind me quoting you!)
"Stay tuned" ;)

[Dean]

Originally posted by kem330
Dean I suspect you are basically right- it will be interesting to see what they come up with- I suppose DVD could turn over their inventory to members for a couple of years to up the availability- or offer better incentives to stay in Disney Collection. Well as Doc would say (hope you don't mind me quoting you!)
"Stay tuned" ;) I'm of the opinion that come 31 Jan, 2042; all is done, finished, caput, over, never to be seen again. After that all is out of luck. I don't think for a second that Disney will give a few months to wrap up the remaining usage. Even if the time gets extended for some reason, the same problem will exist at a later date.

[lizziepooh]

I want to make sure I understand the maintenance fees issue.

If I purchase a resale in May 2002 with an October use year with no banked or borrowed points, should I be negotiating to pay 3 months maintenance fees instead of a whole year's worth that the seller is requesting?

[Doctor P]

Remembering that everything is negotiable, I would not pay more than three months dues under those circumstances. But, it depends on the price, the division of closing costs, etc.

[Gigashadow]

BTW - WDWFantasy, Congratulations!

[Dean]

Originally posted by lizziepooh
I want to make sure I understand the maintenance fees issue.

If I purchase a resale in May 2002 with an October use year with no banked or borrowed points, should I be negotiating to pay 3 months maintenance fees instead of a whole year's worth that the seller is requesting? The neutral positon for maint fees in that situation would be 3 months worth. I just bought BW points resale with nothing until December and paid no fees for this year but will owe the fees for next year. Most owners who are selling and most timeshare sales people don't understand this. They takes the stand that you should pay the years fees if you get the points. That's the way it is in the rest of the timeshare world.

If you are buying from Disney, the first year you pay either the rest of the years maint fees or when the points start depending on whether you get points for the use year then running or starting the next use year cycle. Those that bought WLV with 6 months remaining in the use year and didn't use MB got the old points and in 6 months they get new points and in effect got maint fees at a reduced rate that first year. Those buying BC will have their fees start either in July or their use year whichever is later.

Alternatively, that last year or 2 will have a decreased fee one way or the other though it depends on how they ration the points at to what the exact amounts will be.

[wdeversole]

lizziepooh -

Nothing's banked or borrowed, but are there any current year points available (from October 2001 use year?)

If more than 75% (9 months or Jan-Sep 2002) of the October 2001 points are available, then the full year of 2002 dues would be reasonable.

If no October 2001 points are available, then I would only offer to pay three months of dues.

[kem330]

Dean, my conjecture about DVD releasing some of their inventory was referring to the last two years of the current program(2039- 2041). I am in total agreement that they will not extend the program- that would be even more of a nightmare! I guess what I should really be thinking about is will I still be around to see what happens!

Lizziepooh- I concur - you should not pay anymore than 3 months of maintenace fees if any. How DVC charges and what happens with resale are two different things.

[Dean]

Originally posted by kem330
Dean, my conjecture about DVD releasing some of their inventory was referring to the last two years of the current program(2039- 2041). I am in total agreement that they will not extend the program- that would be even more of a nightmare! I guess what I should really be thinking about is will I still be around to see what happens!The reason I thought you might be saying they would give additional time is that in the previous discussion we had on this subject, several though DVC would give the rest of the year to wrap up the points. It seems that some felt they were promised a full complement points that last year or so.

There will not be a way to ensure everyone uses all points the last year or 2 other than giving more rooms or more time. DVC doesn't own enough points to make up this deficit from tht alone. The only choices are to 1. extend the usage for a few months (almost a year), 2. ration the points some way or another or 3. let us fight amount ourselves to see who will use and who will lose points. They could prorate points, use a lottery or anyone of several other options. While I'll be 84 and may not care, I may be fighting for that handicapped unit at OKW.

[crisi]

Since its me who has been posting on my slow resale, I'll respond.

We finally closed and I got my membership number today!

Here was the timeline:

3/4 Made offer and was accepted the same day. Signed documents and faxed back.

4/4 Informed Disney waived right of first refusal and it would be about two weeks til close.

4/16 Received closing package

4/17 wired money and 2nd day air'd closing package.

4/29 hear that the seller forgot to have something notarized and it needs to be sent back

5/8 The sale has finally closed. I should be able to call member early next week

5/13-15 Member services doesn't have me in their database

5/16 I'm finally in. About ten weeks total.

There wasn't any rush for this, and I suspect my lack of rush may have pushed the timeframes back a little. But if anyone NEEDS their sale to close quickly so they can make reservations, they may not want to do a resale.

I don't want to sound unhappy - having no need to close quickly this wasn't a big deal for me, just something I think others should be aware of when weighing the DVC or resale question. I am quite happy with my resale and would recommend it to anyone buying DVC and not in a rush.

[WDWfantasy]

Originally posted by Gigashadow
BTW - WDWFantasy, Congratulations!

Thanks Gigashadow! We are very excited. Congratulations to you too. I just saw your post about your resale purchase add-on. Have fun using those new points. :) :Pinkbounc