We just signed up!!! Questions on VB [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

Richyams

02-10-2001, 08:27 PM

Vero is a great place, really one of the most beautiful resorts with good size rooms in the world.

I hope that you are planning to stay there most of the time. We have had many reports recently of DVC sales staff telling people that if they want most of their vacations at WDW DVC resorts, they can save money and buy at Vero. It is not a good idea to follow that advice.

For being in a quiet place, secluded and with great beach all around, there aren't many places that can compre to Vero. The saving staying there on points as opposed to spending manoey to stay anywhere even close to comparable, is truly staggering. They have great activities for the kids and the place even feels like Disney.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

dvcdudes

02-11-2001, 04:07 AM

And loved it. My kids had a ball...
I have to take issue with Rich on <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I hope that you are planning to stay there most of the time[/quote]
I believe there is an exception to this if you have flexibility on when you can visit WDW. It also depends on the accommodations you require.
If you have a fixed time you travel each year, Rich is right on. You might want to think about an add on or small resale contract if this is the case.
But I think you will love VB. We did. I have pictures posted on a web site from our visit. Click Here To See Them. (http://www.fortunecity.com/oasis/stlucia/476/index.htm)

Welcome Home

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000

Richyams

02-11-2001, 05:44 AM

Well, according to some of the threads right here at the top today, and according to what happens every year, BWV is also IMPOSSIBLE to get into at all at certain times of year with the seven month window. A standard View at any time of year is very unlikely with the seven month window, a Grand Villa at OKW or BWV is also very difficult.

My intention wasn't to turn this into an anti Vero thread, Vero is a beautiful resort, truly one of the finest on the planet, but we are constantly hearing, and have heard from several different people recently, that DVC sales is still using lies and fraud to get people to buy at their poorly selling VB resort.

It is a good idea to buy where you plan to stay most. If you plan to stay at VB most of the time, that is the best place to buy. If you plan to stay at WDW DVC resorts most of the time, buying at VB is not the best choice. There are far less expensive and much easier to use alternatives.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

garrett79

02-11-2001, 10:17 AM

Maybe I am missing something, wouldnt you have the same trouble getting reservations if you were buying at the Villas at Wilderness Lodge? In other words, if BWV is where you really wanted to be, and you owned at VB or VWL, you still are looking at only being able to book 7 months out, correct?

Richyams

02-11-2001, 10:40 AM

Yes, that is true. But, BWV is still very available in the resale market. You could buy a resale, spend less money and get exactly what you want.

We have had several people that were pushed into buying VB when that wasn't where they wanted to stay, they have some here, found out that DVC sales was less then honest, canceled their contract with Disney and gone for a resale.

Also, at least if you own at VWL, you could make reservations there at the 11 month mark and then attempt to change them at the 7 month mark, this way, you are at least assured a room on WDW property.

If you bought VB with the desire to stay at BWV, you were duped by DVC sales staff....especially is you ever dreamed of a standard view or have limited flexibility in your vacation times.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

Richyams

02-11-2001, 10:54 AM

Let me rephrase this:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If you bought VB with the desire to stay at BWV, you were duped by DVC sales staff....especially is you ever dreamed of a standard view or have limited flexibility in your vacation times.

[/quote]

If you bought VB with the desire to stay at BWV or any WDW DVC resort MOST OF THE TIME, you were duped by DVC sales staff....especially is you ever dreamed of a standard view or have limited flexibility in your vacation times.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

Dean

02-11-2001, 11:03 AM

Rich is correct, it is unreasonable to buy at VB with the main goal of staying at WDW. I couldn't tell from the original post if this was the case or not. Now if you love VB and wanted to stay there much of the time and occasionally visit WDW, you might be ok. That's especially true if you are somewhat flexible as to resort destination and time of year. Otherwise I'd reconsider my choices.

Dean

Richyams

02-11-2001, 11:31 AM

By the way, welcome home!!!

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

PamOKW

02-11-2001, 12:02 PM

Welcome Home Garrett! I think you'll love Vero. You are also correct that your chances for staying at OKW or BWV with a VWL purchase would be the same as for your Vero points. Many people have been successful in using their points to stay at all of the different DVC resorts. It is good that people caution others that if your intent is to stay at a certain resort than sometimes it is best to purchase there. That said, many people are quite successful with a little patience in getting what they want where they want for most every trip.

Richyams

02-11-2001, 12:15 PM

Pam, while people have reported that, I don't believe it. Obviously, luck happens and you will be able to get something sometimes, but that is not the rule.

Look at the threads about how important the 11 month window has been getting at BWV.

Think about a Grand Villa anywhere.

Think about the peace of mind with the 11 month window on WDW property.

Then think about the reasonableness of planning most of your vacations to be at WDW and buying at VB to use the MB....

I liked that survery answer "tar and feather DVC sales that tell people to buy at VB, the 11 month priority doesn't matter..."

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

PamOKW

02-11-2001, 12:40 PM

Yes, but then we see posts from people who plan their vacations much closer to the date when it doesn't really matter where they own points. I agree that if you have to have a GV or you have to go a certain specific week you have to be able to book at 11 months. But, I still think if you are flexible in which of the 3 WDW resorts you'll stay at and can wait things out most of the time you'll be successful. On any given day that you call you may not get your exact reservation. But, if you wait a week or two things may shake out and you'll get your reservation. This isn't true of peak weeks but seems to work out a majority of the time. This purchaser appears to be from FL. They may have a lot of flexibility for their WDW vacations. Vero is more difficult to book if you don't own there.

Desnik

02-11-2001, 12:53 PM

I was just wondering, Richyams, what your thoughts are on the BCV. Do you think when these become available that BWV will be alot easier to book at? Is the "lure" of BWV because of the actual resort or because of its location?

Richyams

02-11-2001, 01:07 PM

Actually, I think the oppisite will be true.

VWL give you less value per point spent there, while this has been discussed before and everyone seems to generally agree, in a nutshell, VWL points per night is the same as BWV prefered view per night. The reason BWV with its smaller units is generally considered to be owrth the extra points over OKW is because of the location. VWL has the same small units and since they have NO STANDARD view units, the average points per night is actually slightly higher at VWL then BWV...for that same or high points, you get the same size unit and a location most would consider worth less then WL location.

The reason given for this decline in value per point spent there is that the construction costs were so high.

OK

Next, BCV is supposedely going to have the same small units as BWV or VWL, it is going to be in the same basic location as BWV....but in keeping with the trend, the points per night are going to have to be higher then BWV!!!! If that is the case, I would expect owners at BCV to not even stay at BCV, they might as well stay at BWV, they get the same location, the same sized unit, the same proximity to two parks AND it costs less points.

I think Disney has to do one of two things, either make the units much larger or stop lying about the cost of construction driving up the point requirements. They raised the per point cost by $5 for the opening of VWL, the should have raised it $10 and given a more reasonable point schedule. Yhis would have kept the value of a point spent at any resort roughly the same...this would eliminate the over use of points at a resort that gives more value.

We are going to have to see which way it plays out. I have heard a few times that the units will be the same units as BWV, if that is the case and the point requirements are higher, they are going to have to come up with something that will even out the value gotton for a point spent at a resort.

But Disney doesn't seem to care about retaining value for us that have already bought, they seem more and more determined to maximize their new sales with no care what it does to out value.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

eva

02-11-2001, 01:08 PM

Welcome Home Garret! We think that Vero is the nicest resort. I wish that we had more opportunities to get down there. Rich is definitely right about BWV. We own at OKW and we always make our reservations there at 11-months and get on the waitlist for BWV (if we really want it, often we prefer OKW) at the 7-month window. Sometimes it works out and a lot of times it hasn't. If you are planning on staying at Vero most of the time or are very flexible in your dates then you made a good purchase.

Disnydad

02-11-2001, 01:32 PM

Hey, we bought from Roland back in December at VWL. We thought he was great too.

Don

Dean

02-11-2001, 01:51 PM

I would suspect that the newer and smaller resorts will be the most difficult to reserve for a few years. WLV then BC will be difficult especially when they sell out and for a couple of years thereafter. OKW will be the easiest resort to get for some time. It's not because it's a bad resort, I like it best, it's because it's older, you really need a car to take advantage, it's further from activities and it has many more rooms than the others (almost as many as the other 3 combined). Seasonal factors like Christmas, Easter, winter for VB and summer for HH will continue to be difficult unless you own at the resort you want. The GV will also be a problem if you don't own there.

I suspect the best time to get the new resorts is right at or soon after they open. DVC will need to declare inventory in order to sell and that will create rooms that are in the DVC officially but many of the points have not been sold. For getting reservations at WDW, the off property resort owners (HH & VB) are at a distinct disadvantage. As noted above, I as an OKW owner, can make ressies at OKW then change them (if available) to WLV, BWV or BCV at the 7 month window. If there's nothing available, I still have a room. Since I like using my car at WDW, parking in front of my unit, having more space, the laid back atmosphere and using much less points; I guess I will not suffer too much if I can't change over to one of the other resorts at the 7 month window.

Dean

garrett79

02-11-2001, 03:30 PM

Thanks for all of the information. We bought VB for the following reasons: We do plan to spend most of our time at WDW and we are Florida residents. We are flexible with the times that we can go. One thing that appealed to us at VB is that we can use the 11 month window and go in the summertime when our passes our blacked out. You have given food for thought about this though.

Dean

02-11-2001, 03:44 PM

Summer is not a hard time to get VB at the 7 month window. It's relatively off season for south FL.

Dean

Richyams

02-11-2001, 03:54 PM

As a matter of fact, since DVC sales has been trying to pawn off Vero on anyone who would listen, its easy to get into Vero at anytime.

WDW resorts, especially BWV, are the main reason for the 11 month window. Planning to vacation mainly at WDW and buying at VERO is going to leave you dissappointed often. You will be settling or going without often. I believe that BWV will only get more difficult as time goes on.

THere are several resale companies, many, many people here have bought resales. BWV is very available through resale, as is OKW.

One thing, did they use this line on you, "SInce most reservations are made six months out, the eleven month window isn't even a concern.", we have heard that one reported several times, it is a lie.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

PamOKW

02-11-2001, 04:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>its easy to get into Vero at anytime. [/quote]

That's not entirely accurate either Rich. I have had times when I could not get a DVC room at Vero.

Just throwing this idea out there....Many people have regretted not buying DVC sooner but said they really didn't know about it until BWV made it "visible". OKW is not out in the public eye as much as BWV. New BWV owners, of course, want to stay at BWV initially but I'm wondering whether once circumstances take them over to OKW and they get a taste whether some of them might decide to stay at OKW more often. Once this happens things will once again "balance" between resorts. Just like some BWV owners will probably want to try out WLV as well.

What I think really contributes to the problem is the large number of 150 point owners. They want/need to stay in either the studio or 1-bedrooms probably with a preference for standard view. This is what makes it difficult for a non-BWV owner to get standard view.

kem330

02-11-2001, 04:27 PM

Re: Pam's remarks:
"Just throwing this idea out there....Many people have regretted not buying DVC sooner but said they really didn't know about it until BWV made it "visible". OKW is not out in the public eye as much as BWV. New BWV owners, of course, want to stay at BWV initially but I'm wondering whether once circumstances take them over to OKW and they get a taste whether some of them might decide to stay at OKW more often. Once this happens things will once again "balance" between resorts. Just like some BWV owners will probably want to try out WLV as well."
I'm curious, Do BW owners like to stay over at OKW? Since we are new BW members and haven't tried it yet, I wonder whether other BW owners have changed their preferences towards any of the other resorts once they tried them? At this point we bought strictly on location preference.(BTW, we are one of those who bought VB and backed out and bought resale BW)

LauraS

02-11-2001, 05:26 PM

My husband and I are wondering the same thing about BWV owners staying at OKW or VWL. We're members for two years now and while I can see myself enjoying OKW for a different kind of Disney experience, my hubby isn't sold yet. He loves the BW location and the easy access to the Studios and Epcot. I can see a trip to OKW in the future, mainly if we were bringing a large group with us and needed to stretch our points a bit.

I do agree with Rich on his point about the BCV. I think that BWV will become even more popular and more difficult to get when BCV is completed. Especially if the points per stay are increased. It will become very difficult for anyone who isn't a BWV owner to get ressies. It'll make BWV owners book at the 10-11 month point to ensure that they can enjoy a stay at their home resort. Eventually I believe that necessity to secure any kind of ressie may drive some late booking BWV owners over to OKW, and the VWL. Fine by me, though, I'd like to try OKW and VB too. As long as I get the majority of my stays at BWV I'm a happy camper.

garrett79

02-11-2001, 06:05 PM

Rich, thanks for the counter point. Just out of curiosity, what is your beef with DVC sales? We plan on going several times a year at all of the different DVC resorts including BWV. If we get it fine, if not we will move on to VWL or OKW.

Richyams

02-11-2001, 06:17 PM

I thin DVC sales does us al wrong when they use lies and fraud to sell their poorly planned Vero Beach resort. We have heard an entire range of lies told by DVC sales staff, I have sat through a presentation where they lied to us. I think that DVC is a great thing. I hate seeing their reputation sullied by poor sales staff lying to get people to buy at VERO.

What I wish that had dane, and they actually still can, is sell off Vero when they realized what a mistake it was for them.

DVC sales staff uses several lies and fraudulant sales practices. they lie to families with three or more kids about the room occupancy limits, they lie to families with one or two kids and tell them they wish to mantain the value and integrity of DVC.

That one line I asked you about is one that we have heard here a bunch of times..."most reservations are made six months out so the eleven month window is not a concern"....that is a popular lie with DVC sales staff,

Then I always hope that someone from DVC sales or DVC management will read this board and put a stop to the fraudulant slaes practices and lies employed by DVC sales.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

dvcdudes

02-11-2001, 06:59 PM

I'm glad to hear that you are flexible. I saw that you were a Florida resident from your first post and thats why I said as long as your flexible you should be ok. If you don't mind either BWV, OKW, or VWL, then you should be able to get something at one of these at the 7 month window unless like Rich said, you need a GV or only want standard view at BWV.
Good luck and enjoy.

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000

garrett79

02-12-2001, 04:34 AM

Well, I am going to test my thory this morning as I am going to try to get BWV for Sunday and Monday of Labor Day weekend. If it is a hassle, we will go to another resort. We are still contemplating backing out of this and buying into VWL, but who knows. Yeah, they did use the " as long as you dont book more than 7 months" in advance argument. The thing is this, we will probably never have the need for a grand villa or anything larger than a 2 bedroom so I am not too worried about that.

normr

02-12-2001, 04:50 AM

Do you think they'll stop the pool hopping to Storm a long bay? Making you have to stay there to use the facilities?

Richyams

02-12-2001, 04:53 AM

Vero Beach dues are also the highest of any DVC resort. DVC sales staff also tells a lie when they say "Dues vary, Vero is highest now but was lowest once"....while technically this may be true, they fail to say the reason the dues were lower. They were lower becasue the original plans were for a much larger resort, poor sales caused them to drastically cut back the size of the resort. The original dues were subsidized to make up for the dues from those unbuilt rooms.

When it became plainly obvious that VB was such a poor idea, they slashed the plans for the resort and ended the subsidy.

Paying VB dues to stay at WDW DVC resorts is also not reasonable. You could buy an OKW resale, pay $3.16 per point in dues, buy in for around $60 per point and have the 11 month advantage on property.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

ripleysmom

02-12-2001, 05:01 AM

From the postings that I see here, as long as you flexible you can get into at least one of the DVC resorts on property at the 7 month window.

If you are looking to stay during the peak times, chances are you will have to use your points to book one of the non-DVC resorts, however, I really don't think it's fair to generalize and say that there is no availability at the 7 month window and that DVC sales staff are lying.

I do agree that you should buy where you plan to stay and I know that that is what our Vacation Guide said, but as long as you do not have your heart set on staying at a particular resort you will probably be fine with a purchase at HH or VB.

Kimberly-Lucas and Ripley's Mom

http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/dvcjoke.gif http://wdwinfo.com/sites/family/dvcis.gif

Richyams

02-12-2001, 05:17 AM

Whats not a lie?

"Most reservations are made six months out so the eleven month window is not a concern"

That?

That is most certainly a lie..and it is uttered by many DVC sales staff everyday.

"Vero dues are highest now, but they were lowest once and may be again"

What about that? The fact that they were lowest once is lie by omitting the reason they were lowest, that they may be again is a wild speculation that has no chance of being true. It has no chance unless they double or triple the size of the resort. Poor sales has excluded that from being a possibility.

I just think that it is unreasonable to sell someone, planning WDW vacations, the resort with the highest dues and no chance of on-property 11 month window.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

garrett79

02-12-2001, 06:23 AM

Test results: I called this morning and got a Studio Preferred view at BWV for Labor Day weekend without any problems. Not sure if this will carry on this way or not. Rich, by the way, do you work for a resale broker?

WebmasterDoc

02-12-2001, 06:40 AM

Rich finally forced me to make a comment!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Most reservations are made six months out so the eleven month window is not a concern"

That is most certainly a lie..and it is uttered by many DVC sales staff everyday. [/quote]

What is your source for verifying this? I would NOT be at all surprised to find that MOST reservations- on an annual basis- are in fact made within 6 months. I know people can make reservations right now at OKW in May, June and July. I do understand that there are times when a given resort may not have a studio or GV, but to state that something is a lie does require a little more proof than just your assumption. Stating something loudly and frequently still does NOT make it a fact. Give me your proof and I'll gladly state it as fact and give you credit. Otherwise, please just state it as your personal opinion and leave it at that.

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

TampaDisneyFreaks

02-12-2001, 06:43 AM

Garrett, Welcome Home! We also had a great experience with Roland. I think it depends mostly on your flexibility. If you are planning on staying off-peak times, the 7 month window should not be a problem. I tried to get mid-Dec. at BWV (I am a BWV owner) and at the 11 month window the DVC MS rep was surprised that I was able to get a studio then (even right at the 11 month window!). That is a slow time for the rest of WDW, but apparently BWV is a hot place at that time. Last year I booked OKW for the same mid-Dec. time well within the 7 month window and had no trouble. Every time I have been on a waitlist I have gotten what I wanted. As long as you are flexible, being IN the DVC in the first place would seem to be the most important thing. Do what you are most comfortable with

Richyams

02-12-2001, 06:51 AM

No, I just really destest DVC sales steering people towards something that isn't right. Towards something that has been a financial hardship for them. Something that was built because of Disney's arrogance. The failed Vero Beach resort.

Failed?? Failed?? Whenever I use that term,
I have to defend it. Vero Beach is only a shadow of the planned resort because sales FAILED to materialize. VB has had to be the beneficiary of the most generous sales incentives(MB) of any resort because of its FAILURE to attract buyers on its own. They must use WDW DVC resorts to dupe people into buying at VB.

The reasons for its failure are pretty clear. Disney built VB and HH after the wonderful success at OKW. Disney's arrogance had them believing that they were able to succeed in what at the time was a failing timshare industry because of the Disney nam.....duh, it was WDW people, not the Disney name.

Their arrogance allowed them to feel any resort anywhere in the world would sell with the Disney name on it....then lo and behold, here come VB and HH. Both were priced higherthen any other timeshares at the time. Both have suffered from poor sales. HH will eventually sell out, it is a much smaller resort in an active vacation area already...and the Disney name is worth something.

But VB is another story. VB's failure has caused many problems. It has caused DVC sales to lie and use fraud to sell the failed property. This hurts all DVC owners. It makes getting short term reservations more difficult to get at your home resort because so many points were sold to people that intend to spend the majority of their vacations at WDW.

Now VB is causing deeper problems. They couldn't price VWL where it need to be because VB points were still for sale. Instead of raising the point schedule at VWL so high using the excuse of higher construction costs, they should have raised the per point price, this would have had the effect of making a point spent at any resort give roughly the same value. As it is, a point spent at VWL gives less value then a point spent at OKW or BWV....the trend will probably continue at BCV and the reason for this trend is the FAILURE of VB to attract customers at the prices Disney must charge.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

KMarie

02-12-2001, 06:55 AM

I'm BWV owner and could not get a reservation at my home resort, or at VB recently. As new members, we were anxious to take a short trip, and we could go any date over a six-week time period. Granted, I was trying to make the reservation on "short" notice -- four months in advance. We ended up booking at OKW, which, interestingly, had plenty of availability for the entire time we could visit. Based on the popularity of BWV, I now wonder how successful I will be trying to book BWV at the 11-month window. And, will I even be able to book VB at the seven-month window? But, hey, at least for now, we are going!

[This message was edited by KMarie on 02-12-01 at 11:03 AM.]

[This message was edited by KMarie on 02-12-01 at 11:08 AM.]

Richyams

02-12-2001, 06:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Rich finally forced me to make a comment!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Most reservations are made six months out so the eleven month window is not a concern"
That is most certainly a lie..and it is uttered by many DVC sales staff everyday.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is your source for verifying this? I would NOT be at all surprised to find that MOST reservations- on an annual basis- are in fact made within 6 months. I know people can make reservations right now at OKW in May, June and July. I do understand that there are times when a given resort may not have a studio or GV, but to state that something is a lie does require a little more proof than just your assumption. Stating something loudly and frequently still does NOT make it a fact. Give me your proof and I'll gladly state it as fact and give you credit. Otherwise, please just state it as your personal opinion and leave it at that.

[/quote]

Proof is pretty easy for this one DOC. The first half may well be true, the second half "The eleven month window is not a concern" is pretty obviously a lie. Last year people couldn't get into BWV, any room, any view, at the nine month mark let alone the seven month mark. If they were to qualify that statement with

.....unless you want a standard view, a grand villa, a studio, any room at all during the low months when there is a celebreation, the begining of December, many hiliday weeks......

okay, with that qualifier, it is a true statement. They didn't use that qualifier when they lied to me trying to ush HH at that time.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

PamOKW

02-12-2001, 06:59 AM

The above are the oft stated opinions of Richyams and do not necessarily reflect the view of other members of DVC. ;)

Garrett I'm delighted to hear your first reservation went smoothly! May it be the first of many trips.

Early December is somewhat difficult to book since so many folks love to go down and the see the decorations, attend MVMCP and also the annual meetings of the DVC resorts. I've also found that people will book that time well in advance and then may change their mind during the year, freeing up time later on when you call to book or stay on the wait list.

garrett79

02-12-2001, 07:23 AM

Is there any guarantee in any of the contracts that Disney wont sell VB, VWL, BWV or any other DVC resort? Has anyone else had the same kind of problems that Richyams has had or is this an isolated opinion? We are still determining if this is the best value for a vacation period. Does anyone feel trapped into only going to Disney for the next 40 years? (keep in mind we only have 150 pts) so we would have to play the bank/borrow game

LauraS

02-12-2001, 07:23 AM

Don't be discouraged by not being able to get into BWV at the 4 month point. Occasionally you can luck out and get what you want within the 7 month time-frame, but it is not common (despite those who will post how they lucked out). We got a preferred studio for 5 nights at the 5 month point for a stay in November, but I'll concede that we lucked out. I have tried at other times to book within 7 months and have not been so lucky. I do think that BWV is a bit more popular than the other resorts right now, but am hoping that the pendulum will swing back a bit.

OKW is wide open because I think that many OKW owners have owned in DVC the longest amount of time and are looking for a change. I think that many HH, VB and OKW owners hit that 7 month mark right away to try for the occasional BWV stay.

Unfortunately for us BWV, that fact makes it necessary to really utilize the 4 month advantage making last minute BWV trips very unlikely.

On a good note, I was able to get a BWV Grand Villa with one phone call instead of having to do the day by day thing. I was flexible with my dates and was calling for what I thought would be the first of seven mornings. For the heck of it I asked if there was a GV available for the week before. When the CM said yes I was shocked!! It cost me a few more points, but I didn't care.

Good luck in the future.

Laura

Richyams

02-12-2001, 07:31 AM

While most aren't as candid as I am, the one piece of advice that every single person will agree on is to buy where you plan to stay.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 08:11 AM

Garette79,
Please do not second guess your reasoning for buying at Vero Beach. I bought at Vero for pretty much the same reasons as you are stating. I do not live in Florida but I am flexible about my travel and where I am willing to stay. I have never regretted buying at Vero Beach ! Best thing I ever did. I can tell you about my personal experience to hopefully ease your mind. I have made reservations at Boardwalk at the 7 month mark for a standard view studio. I have never had any trouble booking OKW ever! I just did an outside exchange for a two bedroom unit in Loch Lommond Scotland for the use of my Vero points and only a one bedroom worht of points so Vero trades very well. I received an exchange for England and also the four seasons in Arizona. No problems with trade power at all. I never feel stuck with my DVC and I have really enjoyed the timeshare program. I have seen other people back out of deals based on what Rich has said and its really to bad. I almost did because he scared me at first until I researched it on my own. Most reservations are made six months or less according to several guides that I am friendly with. They have no reason to lie to me as they are friends of mine. A large amount of guides utilized the magical begginigs program as it was a great deal! All the contracts for every resort have a clause in there about the termination of a DVC resort. ALL not just vero ! It can only be used for a very limited situations such as natural desasters. Vero beach is at 54% sold and is probubally more than that cause that was a few months ago. People need to realize that they are leasing an 11 month priority window at 1 particular resort and after that you are entilted to several different options that the program offers. You can use those options to stay whevere you want! I do all the time. For a guide to tell you this information it is not a lie! But, ultimatly you need to decide for yourself. It souds like your guide has been truthful and helpful. Of course there may be times when you cant get into a particular resort, that holds true for everyone given different situations. DVC offers flexibilty to its consumers - If you want to have more assurances than a regular timeshare would be the way to go for some. Once agian it is the best purchase I ever made and I chuckle all the way to the bank when I think that I paid 52 per point when points were going for 67. Extra incentive or not the resort is selling briskley and if you do not mind giving up the 11 month booking window lease at a WDW resort and replacing it with the 7 month window you will be fine. I myself do not make my ressies more than 5-6 months out - planning 11 months is to far away for my tastes. The program is flexible and that requires it consumers to be flexible. Go for it! You will never regret it. WELCOME HOME neighbor!

KAY

WebmasterDoc

02-12-2001, 08:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Proof is pretty easy for this one DOC. The first half may well be true, the second half "The eleven month window is not a concern" is pretty obviously a lie. Last year people couldn't get into BWV, any room, any view, at the nine month mark let alone the seven month mark. [/quote]

At least you've finally admitted that all of your statements aren't based on fact.
As for the "proof" you've offered... you are basing your comments on something posted on the internet by a few people. When were these people unable to reserve...did they try again a week later...what room type did they request....how many people had this problem vs how many got their reservation the first try???? If your comment means "I've read that someone was unable to get a room with their first call"- then I can accept that as a fact, as it has happened to me. To call that proof is very misleading, as it is hearsay at best and does not describe the entire situation at all. In my case, when I called the next day, I was able to make the reservation which wasn't available the day before.
DVC does give their sales staff access to statistical information not provided to the rest of us. Included is information about reservation habits. I would tend to believe that most reservations are made within 7 months- even at the BWV. I have no "proof" of that- just my opinion based on my personal experience.... and comments made by CM's at DVC member services. I have never been exposed to those comments from the sales staff, but have no reason to challenge them if they did tell me that.

KMarie

02-12-2001, 09:41 AM

Thank you for the encouragement, Laura S. And LooHoo, thank you for the information you supplied on VB.

The VB negativity I have read seems inconsistent with my experience in trying to book a trip there. If VB is such a "failure," one would think that reservations there, even those on short-notice, would be easy to get. I haven't found that to be the case. Meanwhile, I continue to hear positive things about that resort from those who have been there, and I'm anxious for the seven-month window to hit so I can schedule my visit. :)

kem330

02-12-2001, 09:42 AM

MaryAnn, Please let us know if you have success geting your ressies, I, too, am waiting for final close and member#. In reviewing all the posts, it seems that one could conclude that if you are flexible, it doesn't matter where you buy. If you have a strong preference,then buy where you plan to stay. Just curious- since Vero is also a hotel, aren't they able to rent unpurchased units and recoup expenses that way? How successful are they at the hotel business v.s. timeshare at Vero? It's a great location, I would think it wouldn't matter if they don't sell as many DVC as long as they can keep the rooms rented. Although I have to wonder about the impact as Rich said, of purchasers who primarily use points at WDW. It does seem that that will have a neg. impact on availability for WDW owners.

garrett79

02-12-2001, 09:51 AM

Loohoo, Doc, et al. Thank you very much for all of the feed back and providing an alternative view to Rich's perspective. LooHoo, can you explain a little more about the trading and how that worked with VB?

Desnik

02-12-2001, 10:49 AM

I am also one of those people who was purchasing at VB and then cancelled. We were flat out LIED to. Thank God for these boards or we would have made a purchase we would have been disappointed with! We are waiting for BCV and will purchase there. Nothing against VB, but we plan on being in WDW for most, if not all of our DVC trips. To answer your original question, we have stayed at VB and enjoyed it very much. It is beautiul and such a relaxing atmosphere. The staff was great, and they have lots of kids and family activities. Enjoy your new purchase and congrats! ;)

RoutemanDan

02-12-2001, 11:04 AM

I am a Vero owner and almost backed out myself after reading some of the "OPINIONS" on these boards.After giving it much thought ,I stuck with it.We are very flexible with when we travel and with what size accommodations are /will be available.Maybe it's just beginners luck, but I booked a stay at OKW studio for 4/28-5/07 less than three months out.
Good luck with any decision you make.
Welcome Home!

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/waltsdream_club/rmandandvc201.gif>

<img src=http://www.geocities.com/routemandan/NJdvcers.gif>
Dan ÂºoÂº

garrett79

02-12-2001, 11:21 AM

Desnik, thanks for the info. How were you lied to? Can you provide any examples?

PamOKW

02-12-2001, 11:54 AM

LooHoo THANK YOU! ;) Finally, a very informative piece on Vero. I agree that it is not right to scare people off of their decisions by stating "facts" that are really educated opinion.

All of us here really have no idea how hard or easy it is to book at the resorts. We can guess based upon what we share with each other but there are 48,000+ DVC members. There are maybe 20 who post regularly here and a few hundred who lurk and/or post from time to time. We're not a very big sample I don't see where the guides are lying about anything concerning home resort choice.

As to Vero's success as a resort...it appears to be extremely successful. They resort is not left vacant if members aren't using it. They seem to have a very successful business meeting and wedding hosting business happening at Vero. One rumor we've heard is the possiblity of adding a conference center to the resort. They have a lot more land to play with at Vero and to decide how they will use it. The land is only becoming more and more valuable as Disney holds on to it so time will tell how things will build out. I've seen articles in the past that show no indication that Disney has abandoned all plans for the "other side of the road".

Desnik

02-12-2001, 12:03 PM

garrett79: These were just some of the lies we were told: "It doesn't matter what your home resort is, you can book anywhere" "if you buy only 150pts. that won't get you anything, you have to buy at least 240pts." "the 11 month and 7 month window don't mean anything, you'll have no problem getting into the BWV at peak times, maybe not at x-mas, but you don't want to be here at x-mas anyway, it's too busy" Your VB pts. are worth the same as BWV" "your monthly dues will always be much lower than on-site DVC" If I can remember more I'll post them. Our guide also told us a bunch of lies not purtaining to DVC, but the lies about the DVC were not only told by 1 guide, but by 2!!

Richyams

02-12-2001, 12:13 PM

I guess it comes down to advantages vs disadvantages.

Advantages of owning at VB when planning to vacation at WDW:

MB saves some money up front

I can't think of any others...

Disadvantages:

Highest dues of any DVC resort

Studios, especially standard view studios can be difficult at any time of year.

General problems associated with ONLY HAVING THE 7 MONTH WINDOW TO WORK WITH.

VB also asks the lowest price for resales

If the remote possibility of DVC selling anything does happen, VB will no lobger offer the ability to stay at WDW at all.

I think that it also comes down to asking why the DVC sales staff needs to resort to lies and fraud to sell VB points.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

maryisme

02-12-2001, 12:24 PM

I just happened to get off the phone with a disney rep who offered me a wonderful incentive to purchase at vb. This incentive was only applicable for vb. If i were to purchase at vb, i would be given the same amount of points i purchased. Example, if i purchased 150 points, i would receive an additional 150 points from the sept 2000 use year. I could either use those points, or disney would buy them back and i could credit it toward my purchase. They would credit me $1950 toward my purchase bringing down the cost of my purchase to $8850. They sure do make it sound attractive and tempting to purchase at vb. Unfortunately for me, it wouldn't make sense for us to purchase there. Has anyone else been offfered this "deal"?

garrett79

02-12-2001, 12:25 PM

Ok, Rich, I really need to understand something. Did they dupe you at DVC sales into buying VB or do you just hate them in general? As Doc mentioned, I haven't seen any proof otherwise. Additionally, I dont care where I stay on property and was able to get a standard or preffered view at BWV this morning without any problem for Labor Day weekend. Besides, who wants to be there in a peak season anyway? So, any concerns about a 7 month window are pretty much moot at this point to me........

garrett79

02-12-2001, 12:28 PM

Desnik, what were the names of the guides?Thanks

SwampFox

02-12-2001, 12:39 PM

While I certainly know the context of the conversation where these sales "statements" were supposedly made, I don't agree that all of the quotes were lies.

"It doesn't matter what your home resort is, you can book anywhere" --- This is actually an important component of the DVC program. You CAN make reservations at any of the DVC resorts with your points. (Not a lie)

"if you buy only 150pts. that won't get you anything, you have to buy at least 240pts." --- Context might make a difference here, but many guides get an idea of what a buyers intended travel needs areand use that to suggest how many points may be be needed. That could explain why 240 points would be more appropriate than 150. In any event- that discrepancy is pretty easy for anyone to compute. (IMO- Not a lie)

"the 11 month and 7 month window don't mean anything, you'll have no problem getting into the BWV at peak times, maybe not at x-mas, but you don't want to be here at x-mas anyway, it's too busy" --- Maybe the words "no problem" are a little strong, but lots of people have reported here making reservations at OKW and even the BWV on fairly short notice. Again- this is part of the DVC program. If you are flexible- those reservations are entirely possible. (IMO- Not a lie)

"Your VB pts. are worth the same as BWV" --- Very true!!! The points owned at VB are valued the same as any other DVC resort when making a reservation- whether at a DVC resort or an exchange or another WDW resort. (Not a lie)

"your monthly dues will always be much lower than on-site DVC" --- If this is an actual direct quote- in context, then it is NOT accurate. IMO, this would be a pretty dumb statement to make since it is so easy to confirm. (You could have confirmed it at the presentation by merely asking what dues were at the other DVC resorts.) (Certainly a misleading lie- if an accurate quote!)

The DVC vacation guides are still sales people and try to find ways to explain the advantages of their program and their particular resort. Most of the "quotes" you mention are well within the parameters of the program. The qualifying is done when- in practice- on any given day there could be a reservation which is unavailable. That is why everything is "subject to availability".
Sorry you feel so abused by the guide(s) you had. Looks like you were able to overcome at least some of the bad feelings, since you say you are still interested in DVC. Will you still consider buying from a DVC guide or wait for BCV to be available through resale?

kem330

02-12-2001, 12:40 PM

maryisme, As far as I know, they offer you year 2000 points at all the resorts. If you were buying VWL for example, you might get an Aug use year and get points from aug 2000 as well as aug 2001

Richyams

02-12-2001, 12:42 PM

No, I bought way back in '92 and added on in '93, there were no other resorts back then.

I think DVC is the greatest thing in the world. I have had a bunch of friends anf family buy in also.

Again, maybe because I love DVC so much that I feel personally hurt and insulted when DVC sullies their reputation by having their sales staff lie and use fraud to sell DVC points, especially VB points.

Maryisme just reported a new desperate measure they are using to try and get someone, anyone to buy those points. What is more insulting is that they are selling many of those points to people who have no intention of ever seeing VB. Once they sell the other half the points, people who bought at VB are going to have alot more competition at the seven month window.

Not only do I think DVC is a great thing, but VB is a beautiful resort. It truly is, but it is in an industry that has found a new price level, a price level that DVC is not on. It turns out that the Disney name was not enough to sell the resort.

When I say "Failed", I mean as a timeshare venture as part of DVC. I think that it has very clearly FAILED in that sense.

I think they will soon take my suggestion of giving away free VB points with breakfast at Olivia's....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

WebmasterDoc

02-12-2001, 12:48 PM

Maryisme- that is the MB program which has been offered at all of the DVC resorts for some time. The only difference is that at VB they are willing to buy back all of the 1st years points (instead of 50%) at $13 apiece (instead of $10).
There are not really an "extra" 150 points - since that deal is available at all DVC resorts. You're getting the 2000 allotment of points and then another allotment in 2001 (that's how the program works all the time).
Thanks for reporting that- it is currently an important feature of VB sales. Enjoy!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 12:53 PM

Garrett,
I would be happy to tell you more about the exchange options. You may exchnage your points through DVC contract with interval international. All you need do is call MS to request a location and give a time frame and size of unit you are looking for. I wanted anything in Scotland and gave a period of Aug 2001-Oct2001. We were put on the list and were called when a match was found. The first match was to far south in Scotland so I turned it down but the second match 2 weeks later was at Loch Lommond for a 2 bedroom even though we wanted a 1 bedroom it sttill only cost us the points for a 1 bedroom. I did the same for Arizona and England. The biggest issue with getting exchanges that I have found is giving a large travel window and asking as far in advance as possible. It is true that most people do not deposit there weeks for exchange until 6-8 months out but if your on the list before others you will get priority when things open up. There is a whole world out there that my Vero points offers to me so take advantage of it if you like. It is interesting to me how this topic seems to upset so many people. I know some of us bought our points with the intention of staying at our home resort for every vacation and that is what the 11 month window is for. Others like myself went for this timeshare because of the flexibility it offered and plan to take full advantage of that option. It is a moot point who exchanges points the most and what there home resort is. The program was set up to offer this accomadation to every one. If your worried about last minute reservations at a certain resort than you need to plan ahead. Just because you pick one home over another does not give you the right to demnd availability at your home resort on a moments notice. You pay for 11 month window and once that has passed you have the same options as every one else. As far as dues go it is clearly written down what the dues at each resort are so for a DVC rep to say they are higher is not subjective at all and find it difficult to believe that would be said. I think there must have been miscommunication on that point because dues sheets are printed and easy to verify.Did you not look at the sheets? Dues for Vero actually came down this year and under the 4 mark like the other resorts. they are still higher but not by that much. the time fram to make up the difference in dues per year will not extend long enough for that to factor. I did the math as compared to my price per point saved and other dues at WDW locations. To long to even consider a down side for me. Resales at Vero go for the less but remember a lot of us paid less so that would even out for me as well. None of us should even think along these lines really because as time goes on evetually all our contracts will be worth less. This is not a program instituted for consumers to make money selling resales. This is a program built with flexibility for everyone to enjoy. I know there is only 1 Vero beach resort so I want availablity there at 11 if I so chose. There are 3 WDW resorts soon to be 4 I think my odds are a lot better of securing a room at 1 of those resorts vs just i vero property. This has been my experience so far. Value of a resort, up sides and down sides are truely subjective to each individuals situation so it is very important to not make blanket statemnts that seem like facts which apply to all. Think of your own situation and make a determination based on your own needs. Just my own opinions and some of the reasoning that I used when purchasing.

KAY

Desnik

02-12-2001, 02:16 PM

O.K. I must say that from some previous posts it sounds to me that I am being called a liar. I do not and will not disclose the names of my guides to prove validity to my statements. I did not post my experience to slander any DVC rep. but to only prove Richyams point that some people are being lied to or misled. I do plan on buying at BCV when they become available and have already requested not to be contacted by the previous reps. we had so when we do purchase we will be working with a different rep. We called the proper people to complain about our first rep. and believe me the things this woman was saying especially not pertaining to DVC were so outlandish! I do not care whether people agree with me or not, how can you no one else but me and my DH were there, you don't know what exactly was said or the context in which it was said. It does matter what my home resort is if I specifically state I plan on vacationing at WDW most of the time, so I was LIED to. If I bought 150pts. that's enough for us, we vacation at off peak times and only need a studio. I also made our guide aware of this. IMHO it is a lie to say if I have pts. at VB and want to book a BWV room during x-mas time that it would be "no problem". Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do think that a VB resale and a BWV resale will be very different per pt. I checked the resale board on this site and there is a VB resale for $55 per pt. and a BWV resale for $66 per pt. I think that speaks for itself. And all my quotes were actual acurate direct quotes. This rep. was at the sales office at BWV and our second was at VB but was much better than the first but was still mis leading on alot of important facts. I also don't remember saying I felt abused by my experience. I am from N.Y. and it takes alot more than a DVC rep. misleading me for me to feel abused!!! I refuse to let a bad experience rob me and my family of wonderful DVC vacations and look foward to being a member. :D

Richyams

02-12-2001, 02:32 PM

You are absolutely right. Furthermoer, for anyone to say that "The eleven month window doesn't matter" is not a lie is just plain silly.

There are MANY instances where it is very important.

A big, unarguable one is the peace of mind knowing that you will have a room for your anniversery during Walt's 100th birthday celebration.

The peace of mind knowing that when your daughter gets married or you want to have a family re-union at OKW, you have the ability to get a grand villa for sure.

The ability to get studios if your points are limited for a year, the ability to reserve any room at BWV and make a request for a Boardwalk view at the eleven month window, nothing is ever a guarantee and you can get a BW view on a days notice, but you maximize your chances with that eleven month window.

To say that the eleven month window doesn't matter is a lie!!!

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

SwampFox

02-12-2001, 02:42 PM

Desnik- I don't think anyone was calling you a liar. I certainly wasn't. I was trying to show where your examples of "lies" could have been taken another way. I'm sorry if you felt attacked by that.

I would agree that people should purchase where they will stay the most- but the program certainly does allow for staying at the other resorts- if you consider that to be a lie- that is another issue.
Your original post stated that the guide used Christmas as an exception to the comment about "no problem"- I guess I misunderstood your original comment. That aside- reservations are available at Christmas thru the "Special Seasons Priority List"- as members may request reservations at any WDW resort during that time. The SSPL allows for these reservations to be made 14 months in advance. Perhaps your guide didn't explain that feature to you.
The "value" (what a point will get you) of a DVC point is exactly the same at each resort. Your guide surely didn't discuss buying a resale and I wouldn't expect them to do so. The purchase price of resale points is NOT the "value" of the points it is merely the "cost" of those points. I purchased a resale at OKW for $50 per point not too long ago. Apparently some would feel that the "value" of OKW is low?
I'm glad you would still consider a direct DVC purchase- even when you state you are still getting misleading information. Sorry you feel that way. :(

SwampFox

02-12-2001, 02:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>To say that the eleven month window doesn't matter is a lie!!! [/quote]

THE ELEVEN MONTH WINDOW DOESN'T MATTER!!

Since I usually go during soft times (May, Sep) and am quite flexible with my dates and can't usually plan ahead more than 6 months and could care less about a GV.......
THE ELEVEN MONTH WINDOW DOESN'T MATTER to me and I have never had a problem getting the villa I want.

If you have other travel needs, then it could have other importance for you. I'm happy you have that 11 month priority, as it sounds as though it is very important for your needs. That doesn't make it a lie though!

Richyams

02-12-2001, 02:57 PM

It does make it a lie.

To make a blanket statement, as DVC sales does, that the eleven month window doesn't amtter is a blatant lie.

How does that sales person know that the person they are pitching doesn't have interest in a Grand Villa? How does that sales person know that the prospect doesn't ever want a standard view at BWV?

How does he know that the prospect doen't ever want to travel in early December?

How does the sales person know all this?

He doesn't, and to make a statement like that to a prospective customer is a lie and fraud!!!

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 03:01 PM

Desnik,
I realize that you are a tough New Yorker but I will try to be more sensetive in responding to you so you do not take offense or get your feelings hurt. I know that what I posted no way inferred that you were lieing. I simply stated that these dues are not subjective and can be reviewed by the consumer. So, for a guide to make a statemnt like that is BIZARRE!. I really thought that there must have been miscommunication to explain this statement. You say she was saying outlandish things overall. That should defenitly put up a big red flag to you as a consumer. No one here thinks that DVC sales is a maluable benine entaty that spues gospell. However, I also do not think that they purposfully mislead or commit fraud. Once again even if you spend most of your time at WDW resorts it is still not a lie to inform you that 7 month availability is most likely going to secure you a room. The key that you are missing is flexibility with your resort choice and times. If you have these key ingredients than the 7 month window will offer you the security one is looking for. If I make my ressies at 6-7 months out on average it does not matter where I buy in at. The 11 month window has passed and I am subject to the same options as everyone else is. Why would I pay more for a resort when I would not take advantage of the 11 month window. Makes no sense. Earlier in your other post you say that the rep did not state that you would get Christmas time at 7 months but rather peak times except for Christmas. Now you say that they told you Christmas time. You see how easily mistsakes can be made when passing on information. Generally speaking most people report having very good luck with peak times at the 7 month window. I do not want to verify your story and think that you had a bad experience for whatever reason. I still think there was miscommunication that went on but I can tell you from my own experience that everything my guide said to me about 7 month widow has held true. I stay wherever I want to but I have the flexibility to do so and he knew that. Perhaps your guide thought you could be happy at any WDW resort at the 7 month mark and thats what threw things off. I think you are confusing point values at DVC with the resale market values. Vero Beach points are valued exactly the same at every DVC resort as any other home resort would be. It does not take more Vero points to stay at OKW or BWV than it takes OKW points and BWV points to stay there. The resale market is different all togeather . OKW and BWV are going for more because of several reasons 1 both are sold out. 2 people paid more for these resorts than vero owners. This has nothing to do with the value of Vero vs other resorts within the DVC system all resorts are valued the same so that statement is not a lie in any way. It sounds like you have made a decsion that is right for you and thats what counts for all of us. People here are trying to offer that same information so that mere opinions dont scare people from making a truely educated decision. Hope you have better luck next time when you purchase and wish you years of happy vacations.

KAY

Desnik

02-12-2001, 03:12 PM

I am not dealing with the people that gave me misleading info. and will not in the future. I would consider a direct DVC purchase because no one has to sell anything to me. I know I want to buy at BCV and how many pts. it's all a matter of paper work. I have heard of alot of people having great reps. and hopfully we will too. I did feel attacked and appreciate the apology but I still don't get why you stated you are "sorry for me feeling that way". What way are you referring to? <IMG WIDTH="15" HEIGHT="15" SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif" alt="razz">

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 03:17 PM

I agree with SwampFox:

THE ELENTH MONTH WIDOW DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!

Maybe for others but not for me . Will never want a grand villa not now or ever no kids to marry off no worries! I think it is important that people educate their guides about their needs and not expect the guides to be mind readers. Just like when your buying a house your real estate agent doesnt ask Gee maybe your kid will want to get married someday in your back yard I think you need a bigger piece of land. Lets be reasonable at some point we have to educate ourselves and not expcet others to do it.

Richyams

02-12-2001, 03:24 PM

So by this reasoning, if the DVC sales guide says to me, "The moon is made of blue cheese", that is not a lie since I won't be vacationg there???

I think that it is HIGHLY disengenuous for someone to say that just because some part doesn't matter to them, it can't matter to anyone, so telling things that are untrue...is OK....do I have that right?

Or did some people get duped into buying at VB with the lies and fraud and are trying to legitimize it?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

Desnik

02-12-2001, 03:27 PM

LooHoo, In my previous posts my response was directed towards the post made by Swampfox and in answer to questions made by garrett79. I don't even remember what you posted. Your first sentence was really cute I almost choked lol so much. :eek: Thanks for trying to explain things to me but I'm well informed about the DVC. All I was doing was answering questions, telling my story. I never once told anyone not to buy at VB or that I was so distrought and heart broken over my experience with a misleading guide. I never said anything that was told to me was done on purpose. Obviously her statements sent up a red flag if I did not purchase through her. The point is that I stated what would work for us to this guide and was still mislead. I really don't have an opinion on Garrett79 purchase at VB and never stated anything negative about it. I'm sure they made a purchase based on what was best for them and I am happy they didn't have to deal with what I had to deal with.

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 03:58 PM

Rich ,
Unfortunatly, you seem to be taking both sides of the fence. What Swampfox and myself are saying is that to say the 11 month window matters for everyone is untrue . Like you have stated several times. You seem to be making blanket statements that are scareing people. When others try to share their own perspective and experiences you just dismiss them. We are the ones telling people to make a decision based on there own circumstances and not take evry word off this board as total all knowing truth. Your remark about trying to legitimize being duped I think speaks for itself. Obviously, your mind may work this way but mine does not. I would never intentionally mislead someone for my own gain, and what gain would that be? Now not only DVC misleads people but posters do as well . When will this giant conspiracy at Vero Beach end. Once again you dismiss experiences that I have shared to try to show that 11 months is the only way to get into WDW properties. Not the case over and over again not the case. I will not reiterate what has been intellegntly stated by others. Sufices to say that your main reason seems to be rather self serving so you can secure reservations at your home resort at later dates. Sorry, but that is not how the program works, not for you and not for me.

Richyams

02-12-2001, 04:13 PM

I understand completely that what may work for some won't work for others.

My continued abjections are to stating that DVC sales is not lying when they say "The eleven month window doesn't matter" to a new prospect.

I mantain and will continue to mantain that saying that the eleven month window is meaningless is a lie when told to a prospect unless it is VERY SERIOUSLY qualified, which it isn't, therefore it is a lie!!!

So, DVC sales staff are lying to new prospects.

Is a true statement!

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 04:38 PM

Rich,
We have come to some meeting point here I can just feel it my bones. We all agree than that 11 months is important for some but not for others. Hence, Vero is a good option for some people. Saying this to someone in my position would not be a lie but saying it to someone who only wants to stay at WDW resort at a particular time of year or other circumstances would most defenitly be an untruth! If DVC tells someone somthing that seems to be untrue than I think we all would chime in and help that person if we could. It seems that you have helped people make a better descion for their own needs. I also think by your strong unyeilding statements about Vero that you may have steered some people away from making a toally objective decsion for their needs. I have enjoyed many of your posts and will gladly agree to disagree on some points that have been mentioned. Lets just try to help educate with our own experiences rather than our own feelings. I do not want to negate the importance of the 11 month widow for some but remember this window does not apply to everyone and lets not speak as if it does. I would be pretty upset if I was told the opposite and boght at BWV instead of the deal I got at Vero. The 11 month window schpelle can work both ways when considering a purchase.

PamOKW

02-12-2001, 06:09 PM

It seems as if there are more resales appearing on the Timeshare Store site including a pretty even divide among resorts for sale. It seems as if BWV may be moving into the "real" world where people are selling due to life changes (divorce, death, etc.) or because they realize it's not for them. I wonder if this will bring the prices back down from the upward spiral that took place last month?

garrett79

02-12-2001, 06:36 PM

I will try to repeat this one last time. We were not duped, pressured, tricked or fraudulently schemed into VB. Again, if there is a problem with DVC sales go to them rather than try to scare people away on this board. We are all educated adults who bought where we bought for a reason specific to each and every one of us. I bought VB because I liked the plan and am very flexible on when I go to the WDW resort. I am not trying to legitimize anything. I would be curious why someone chooses to carry out a vendetta against buying at VB and posting a negative OPINION every time someone shows an interest.

Richyams

02-12-2001, 06:46 PM

I must assume that you aren't refering to me...I think VB is a beautiful resort and a very wise decision for someone that plans to visit there often, this was my first post:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Vero is a great place, really one of the most beautiful resorts with good size rooms in the world.

I hope that you are planning to stay there most of the time. We have had many reports recently of DVC sales staff telling people that if they want most of their vacations at WDW DVC resorts, they can save money and buy at Vero. It is not a good idea to follow that advice.

For being in a quiet place, secluded and with great beach all around, there aren't many places that can compre to Vero. The saving staying there on points as opposed to spending manoey to stay anywhere even close to comparable, is truly staggering. They have great activities for the kids and the place even feels like Disney.

[/quote]

I did caution you because there have been several paople new to DVC that had been deceived by DVC sales people. As long as you are going in with your eyes open, great, more power to you. If my cautions can save one person from a mistake they will regret for the next forty years, I feel great.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 07:00 PM

PamOKw,
This is a good question. My feeling is that the resale market will even out in a short while. Whenever something is going to sell out and people perceive they cant get something it always makes it more attractive. I think we saw a great deal of impulse buying caused by the psychological effect of a sell out. Time will tell though. The feeding frenzy that went on was very interesting to watch and we saw it carry over into the resale market.
P.S. I always enjoy your posts- well thought out and interesting topics.

KAY

KAY

LooHoo

02-12-2001, 07:09 PM

Garrett,
Nice to hear from you again. I thought you might have gotten lost in the waves at Vero! Glad you feel good about your purchase. You should and you will enjoy it for years to come. I am glad that you werent scared off. Just as it is important to share information to save people from making a mistake by buying at vero, so is it just as important to share information for those people who would be better off buying at Vero. There are many of us as well!

KAY

Dean

02-12-2001, 07:19 PM

As with any timeshare, it usually takes a few years for resales to start showing up and a few more years for them to be readily available and the price to stabalize. You will likely see OKW continue to be the most easily available resort for resales because it's older and there were more points sold, almost as many as the rest of the resorts combined. The fact it's on WDW property will keep it popular and the prices higher. As HH and VB sell out and enough people have grown tired of the visits as well as having life changes for many, the number of resales will increase somewhat and prices are likely to dip modestly. Just remember that only about 4% of timeshares offered for sale are ever sold so Marriott and DVC are on the high end of resales both in price and ease of selling.

As a side note and to keep in Rich's theme, I can see a group of DVC buyers that want to stay at DVC but won't or can't buy more than the minimum. I could see these new owners with 150-170 points buying at WLV and then staying at OKW most visits. Their points would go much further. I know there are those that have used this strategy for BWV and suspect it will be more prevelent at WLV. Since that frees up availability at WLV, I suppose it's alright by me.

And since we're talking of Rich, he loves to play the devil's advocate. While his way of emphasizing the DVC sales problems may be a little forceful, his points are well taken.

Dean

kem330

02-12-2001, 07:30 PM

It looks like Disney is no different than any place else in the real world. There are good sales people and there are the BAD ones who will do anything to make a sale. I personally believe that life will catch up to the bad ones. It would be nice if all DVC guides were perfect, unfortunatley with the low unemployment rate, that aint gonna happen. So like ANY sales transaction, BUYER BEWARE! If you are going to spend $11- 20,000.00 don't you check it out first?
Obviously Garrett did and should be commended on making an informed decision. I don't think it's fair to lump all DVC guides into the same class.
Thank god ours was good or I don't think we would have been interested in DVC at all! I felt she deserved half the commision on our resale because we would have never bought in if it hadn't have been for her. I think it would be more appropriate to give opinions and refrain from calling DVC and its reps liars, when perhaps only a small percentage are misrepresenting the program.
P.S. I agree with Mary Ann and Dean- Rich's comments have been very helpful and if you read enough of the boards , you understand where he's coming from. I just think for the new lookers, they might get too biased an impression from his remarks. But I do so love a devils advocate!
:D

[This message was edited by kem330 on 02-12-01 at 11:53 PM.]

garrett79

02-13-2001, 04:30 AM

Thanks again for everyone's opinion, including Rich's. I can definitely understand his points just maybe not the way they were presented. LooHoo, going back to the exchange, what kind of points did it take to get the exchange?What was the average needed?

LooHoo

02-13-2001, 06:32 AM

Garrett,
Scotland for Aug in a 2 bedroom cost me 176 points which is the cost of a one bedroom in adventure season. England was the same. A lot depends on the time of year you want to go- weather it is high season or low. When you call MS they can give you a ball park idea of what the exchange will cost you. When the match is found they will be able to tell you exactly the amount. So far I have found the trades to be very economical with my points. Remember get on the list as soon as possible. Also if you decide to change your exchange and try for something else whatever you do dont cancelle just have ms make the changes to the exsisting search so you wont loose your place on the list. Any other questions please feel free to ask.

KAY