GRRRR-Paranoid, Ignorant people-Discrimination!

[eternaldisneyfan]

Okay. I am really mad and frustrated with MJC. First they say Dad can no longer be my scribe for tests...

Today I was told I couldn't use the bathroom! Some faculty member saw my Dad and I in the bathroom and expressed "concern" that he might do something inappropriate! Ridiculous! And now the DEAN says I can't use those bathrooms.

I can use one of two on the whole campus! I have been to one. It is very inferior. No heat. No air conditioning. Poor lighting. And it smells. The toilet leaks when flushed (the lady told us this as I was told I HAD to use this bathroom!) So I have to use a separate but "equal" bathroom.

I shouldn't have to go halfway across campus for the bathroom. It is very hard for me to drive anymore. Heat makes me very sick. Cold is bad for my lungs...And why should I be forced to use a broken bathroom!

Absurd! And wrong!

And Dad is feeling guilty like he did something wrong!


But what can I do???

>:(

[ktwheelz]

Okay. I am really mad and frustrated with MJC. First they say Dad can no longer be my scribe for tests...

Today I was told I couldn't use the bathroom! Some faculty member saw my Dad and I in the bathroom and expressed "concern" that he might do something inappropriate! Ridiculous! And now the DEAN says I can't use those bathrooms.

I can use one of two on the whole campus! I have been to one. It is very inferior. No heat. No air conditioning. Poor lighting. And it smells. The toilet leaks when flushed (the lady told us this as I was told I HAD to use this bathroom!) So I have to use a separate but "equal" bathroom.

I shouldn't have to go halfway across campus for the bathroom. It is very hard for me to drive anymore. Heat makes me very sick. Cold is bad for my lungs...And why should I be forced to use a broken bathroom!

Absurd! And wrong!

And Dad is feeling guilty like he did something wrong!


But what can I do???

>:(

Wow, wow, wow! Wrong in so many ways!
Does your school have a disability services director? If so, are they supportive? Are there other students with disabilities with whom you could network and leverage your advocacy efforts?
PM me if you need to vent, college with a disability can be so stressful!
- ktwheelz

[eternaldisneyfan]

The disability office was who told me!

[Talking Hands]

The disability office was who told me!
Tell them they can stick it. Your Dad can't be your scribe. Why not? THey do have a proctor for tests don't they. Are they going to provide and pay for a scribe for you.? We had a student whose father was his aide and scribe for all 4 years of high school. Full scholarship to Harvard and valevictorian.
AS to having to use a certain bathroom. Inform them that until they provide a bathroom in the same building you are in that is clean and up to par you will continue to use the one you presently use or provide a full time aide at their cost so your Dad doesn't have to provide this service. THat is totally discriminatory.

[mechurchlady]

I am not sure how many federal and state laws they broke but they do need some educating and I mean with a rolled up newspaper. I am not sure about the laws but I know at WDW, DLR and other places a disabled person may have a person of the opposite gender go with the disabled person into any restroom. If the laws apply to WDW then they surely must apply to colleges. You need a lawyer or advocacy group to explain the laws that pertain to disabled persons and your rights.

Disabled folks are supposed to have access to bathrooms that are equal to nondisabled facilities. As for the scribe they are taking away a tool that helps you with your education. Removing your scribe is just like taking away a cane or wheelchair. They better have solid ground for your father not being your scribe.

Prayers and chocolates and hugs
Laurie

[KPeveler]

there is a set distance how long a person has to travel to a bathroom that is accessible... so i am pretty certain they are breaking laws!

[bookwormde]

Definetly multiple violations of ADA regulations and directives,

Here is a link to a core ADA rights source

http://www.ada.gov/cguide.htm

and for complaints

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/drs/drsroles.php

Contact the disbilities office of the school, with a letter (certified mail) stating what you believe the violations are and let them know that this is your 1 attempt to settle the matter before contacting FED DOJ and filing a formal complaint.

Tell them that you are including these 2 links since it appears that they are missing some information on the ADA regulations.


bookwormde

[KPeveler]

also, if you get blown off after one or two more attempts to fix this, call your local news station... its amazing how cameras get things done!!

[hematite153]

I think the bathroom issue is horrific! You should be able to use the bathrooms where you are!

The scribe issue seems more defensible to me. Around here, relatives are not allowed to scribe for any timed evaluations. However, we are required to provide a scribe (that we pay for) if there is evidence that it will help a person to succeed. In other words, it seems acceptable to request that you use their scribe even though it's likely easier to work with your father. Of course, it didn't sound like they offered an alternative scribe, without which their request is unfair.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I have a question about the bathroom issue:

Are you and your dad both male? What kind of bathroom was this? Was it a companion restroom or a "normal" single sex bathroom? I can see the issue from their perspective if you are a girl and it was a single sex bathroom, but they still need to provide you with a bathroom in that building that is clean and in proper working condition. If you are both male, there is absolutey no reason for them to be coming down on you like this.

Did the offer to pay for a scribe since they will not longer allow you to use your father? While you get this sorted out are you able to use a digital recorder and turn in the sound file until you have a scribe again?

Good luck getting everything sorted out. That sucks. :(

[bookwormde]

Companions of either sex are allowed to “allowed” to accompany disabled who need assistance into public bathrooms. Obliviously this takes a little sensitivity, of getting those using the bathroom who are uncomfortable with this a chance to “adjust”, before the opposite sex companion enters, but that is the regulation. The difficulty of the practicality of this with larger public bathrooms is why there are usually companion bathrooms in these situations

bookwormde

[Schmeck]

If the college is a private one, and does not accept any federal or state aid, they do not have to provide any services at all to anyone. If they accept money, they only have to provide what is designated in the 504. Check your 504 to see what you can have for accomodations. There should be something in there about scribes and bathrooms, I hope, or you are up the creek.

[KPeveler]

If the college is a private one, and does not accept any federal or state aid, they do not have to provide any services at all to anyone. If they accept money, they only have to provide what is designated in the 504. Check your 504 to see what you can have for accomodations. There should be something in there about scribes and bathrooms, I hope, or you are up the creek.

most colleges have something stating in their own bylaws that they will not discriminate against people with disabilities - not providing safe bathrooms is definite discrimination.

and you dont need a 504 for most colleges - I am at UConn and our disability services does not use one. We just get documentation from our dr to their office. there is no set plan...

[mechurchlady]

One of my quirks is research, love to research and based on the following information they violated their bylaws as well as other stuff that was promised disabled students. They do offer testing services, readers, and note takers. The college is about a 7 hour drive from me so if you want someone to whack them with a rolled up newspaper I will come and do it. Oh and I will use the Black Friday edition of the Los Angeles Times if I can get my hands on one.:rotfl:

http://www.mjc.edu/information/objectives.html
Equal educational access will be insured for disabled as well as academic and economically disadvantaged individuals. Support services and classes will be offered to meet their special needs.

http://www.mjc.edu/disability_services/
That is their disability services office.

http://www.mjc.edu/disabilityservices/mission.html
The mission of Disability Services at Modesto Junior College is to collaborate with
members of the College community to assist the College in offering quality
teaching and student support services to create a learning environment
that promotes access and encourages success for all students. Disability
Services serves as a resource to students, faculty, staff and other community
members to provide information and professional development in the areas
of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Section 504 of the Vocational Rehabilitation
Act of 1973, legal trends, general access issues, cultural considerations,
accommodations and accessible technology.

Let me know if that is the wrong MJC.

[Schmeck]

most colleges have something stating in their own bylaws that they will not discriminate against people with disabilities - not providing safe bathrooms is definite discrimination.

and you dont need a 504 for most colleges - I am at UConn and our disability services does not use one. We just get documentation from our dr to their office. there is no set plan...

"Not Discriminating" is a lot different from providing extra accomodations not covered in a 504. I'd actually be suspicious of any degree from a college that is not strict about 504 compliance/support. Giving support not listed in a 504 would make me wonder if a person with a degree from that college would be able to function independently in a work situation.

Of course everyone should have access to a safe, clean bathroom - that's common decency. But giving classroom support not listed in a 504, in college? I'm amazed that a college would do that, as it sets them up for a lot of liability lawsuits. Not to mention the hiring company, who expects that degree to mean that the employee can do his/her job without assistance, unless it is listed in a 504 plan. We're dealing with this issue at our school, as the school department hired a person with two degrees, but she can't do her job without a ton of support from the rest of us, which isn't fair.

[KPeveler]

"Not Discriminating" is a lot different from providing extra accomodations not covered in a 504. I'd actually be suspicious of any degree from a college that is not strict about 504 compliance/support. Giving support not listed in a 504 would make me wonder if a person with a degree from that college would be able to function independently in a work situation.

Of course everyone should have access to a safe, clean bathroom - that's common decency. But giving classroom support not listed in a 504, in college? I'm amazed that a college would do that, as it sets them up for a lot of liability lawsuits. Not to mention the hiring company, who expects that degree to mean that the employee can do his/her job without assistance, unless it is listed in a 504 plan. We're dealing with this issue at our school, as the school department hired a person with two degrees, but she can't do her job without a ton of support from the rest of us, which isn't fair.

perhaps it depends on what kind of assistance you need - i need to take my exams on a computer as i cant hold a pen, and all i need is a note from my dr, not a set plan. however, i do not require extra time, note takers, etc... so i guess it depends on the need...

[mechurchlady]

Giving support not listed in a 504 would make me wonder if a person with a degree from that college would be able to function independently in a work situation. Schmeck said that.

To get a degree you need to be able to take notes, read materials, take tests, etc. A doctor does not need to read, right, take notes, etc. when he is dealing with a patient as he can have a nurse take the notes for him. The businesswoman needs that MBA but in her job will hire secretaries for notes and writing letters.

A person may need lots of help in school but in the real world do fine without help or hire staff to help them. For me having a general natural science associates of arts degree is a great accomplishment. I will never be able to use it on a job application but for me having that degree means the world to me. Does having the best education mean a person has to use that education for anything at all?

[bookwormde]

One thing to remember is that ADA title 1 (employment) is much broader and stronger (see section 101, 9) than 504 (or ADA title 3, public accommodations) and now that congress has reasserted the intent of who is covered (after the courts had limited this) it is even more so. So there is no problem with getting accommodations in larger work places.

504 like IDEA and ADA are minimum standards so progressive institution meet these and often go beyond in an attempt to also meet the intent and need.

bookwormde

[Schmeck]

Schmeck said that.

To get a degree you need to be able to take notes, read materials, take tests, etc. A doctor does not need to read, right, take notes, etc. when he is dealing with a patient as he can have a nurse take the notes for him. The businesswoman needs that MBA but in her job will hire secretaries for notes and writing letters.

A person may need lots of help in school but in the real world do fine without help or hire staff to help them. For me having a general natural science associates of arts degree is a great accomplishment. I will never be able to use it on a job application but for me having that degree means the world to me. Does having the best education mean a person has to use that education for anything at all?

That doctor needs to be able to do that for himself - as I would not want to depend on the nurse's ability to read and write, as that would be secondhand knowledge (remember the game telephone?) being put into your medical record. My doctor sits at his computer and enters the info himself.

The businesswoman better be able to proofread those letters as well, as they will have her signature on the bottom. This was something my daughter learned the hard way, as her boyfriend lost her 20 points on a very important English paper because he didn't check the format when he printed it out and handed it in for her. She's the one who lost the 20 points, as it was her name on the paper.

Getting a degree means you have reached a set standard of knowledge and ability. Of course there will be exceptions due to physical disabilities, but they should be outlined in a 504, so an employer knows the facts before hiring someone, and the potential employee is also protected from discrimination.

There comes a point where there just can't be accommodations - do you want a cardiac surgeon who is blind, or one that has fine motor skill issues? An air traffic controller with attention deficit disorder? A pharmacist with dsylexia? Of course this doesn't mean that people with any of these disabilites shouldn't be employed, but there's got to be a line drawn somewhere.

I think that if a student needs a lot of support in college, then maybe college is not the right place at that time. There needs to be more job training/skill training places, more tech support to make the disabled more able (for the OP, a tech device instead of a human scribe would give more independence) and better guidelines for accommodations.

For me, it just keeps coming back to the employee that had two degrees but she couldn't do her job at all. She had tons of social issues, needed extra time to do everything, couldn't handle a change in her routine, and the rest of us had to work twice as hard because the students we worked with had to have their IEP standards met. Those two degrees were a joke- she was not qualified to do the job she was hired for, even though the two degrees made her look over-qualified.

[mechurchlady]

http://www.warrencoea.org/_Articles/04-05/A05/BlindTeacher.htm
Very interesting story.

I am a bit insulted by the last lines by Schmeck,. I have SID and maybe ADD. Maybe that woman has ADD, SID, ODD, OCD or HFA. She may have two degrees but did someone set with her as a child and train her up properly? Maybe she cannot do her job as she was not taught work ethics or maybe she is in lalaland because she is schizoid or aspie or has no sociallization training to speak of.

As for the jobs it was a generalization and not meant to be real. It is a "what if" type of example. sigh

[bookwormde]

Funny lots of jobs that neurotypicals a need lot of extra help for. How much time each day is spent socializing and someone else has to make up for that time, or lots of degreed individuals who cannot even do basic math skills without the encumbrance of paper and pencil. What is being realized now is that it is the “fit” of the job that is important.

We are all part of a community and everyone has lacking abilities (disabilities) that others help with. The real issue is finding the right position for the special abilities if each person. Unfortunately this is not well done in our current societal structure, where other factors seem to take precedence.

I have supervised and had to work with and “clean up” after lots of neurotypical people with lacks of abilities (disabled) who because they are part of the social majority it is considered acceptable (or at least tolerated) I good manager builds on abilities and supports the worker were abilities are lacking, sound like either in this case the “business”, the supervisor or both are not doing there job (maybe because of a lack of ability on there part also).

Sounds like she might be a good person to work with persons with varying neurotypes and in enlightening those who do not “get” the bigger picture and how openly discriminatory our societal structures are to “non standard people”.

I guess society should not have had the benefit of such people as Hawkings.

bookwormde

[BeckyScott]

I guess society should not have had the benefit of such people as Hawkings.

bookwormde

Where is the smilie for "I just spit coffee all over my monitor?"

I sincerely hope that when my son is an adult, he can find a boss like you. ;)

Schmeck, the doctor and businesswoman in your post, it wouldn't be unusual for them to have assistance. Doctors use tape recorders- and they have medical transcriptionists- it's great that your doc types his own notes but mine sure doesn't, if everyone did that the medical transcription business would be non-existant. Businesswoman, at some point should have a secretary, and the secretary should know up-front what she's in for. How many business-people do you know that in fact the secretary is signing the name on the letters, sight unseen by the boss?

Now, having said that, I do know sort of where you're coming from. The community college where I work, there are some students that have no business being there, really. The problem seems to be that the first wave (if you will) of kids who were IDEA protected from kg, are just now hitting college age. And nobody knows what to do about it. They had modified curriculum and supports throughout their whole school career, managed to get a real diploma, but are totally unprepared (and sometimes truly incapable) of college-level work. However, the kids I'm talking about, it's not a matter of a note-taker or restroom accomodations.

I once had a long talk with our service coordinator about that situation. About what you're supposed to do with a kid who aspires to say, be a brain surgeon, but you know it's just not even possible. I wouldn't want someone telling my kid what they believed to be the extent of his potential. That's not anybody's job. And it reeks of socialism and it's a step backward for the disabled community. However, then, there is reality. And reality is that everyone, disabled or not, has talent in some area, there is something they're good at, and disabled or not you try to find that skill and use it in the future. I don't have any learning disabilities, I could make you a tuxedo from scratch but you don't want me to balance your checkbook, ever. :rolleyes1 Anyway, the service coordinator said their policy is that everyone has the "right to fail". It's not their job to tell someone they can't do something. It's their job to be as supportive as possible, and to help each person line up those baby-steps to reach their goal. And at some point if the person hits the wall and isn't able to achieve the next step, then the person has a right to come to that conclusion themselves, to deal with it themselves, and to decide to modify their goal.

[Cheshire Figment]

This thread has been getting very argumentative. I think BeckyScott's last post has hit the nail on the head and is a good point to stop the arguing.