Do you think that I did the right thing?

[eva]

Boy, I am really getting my rear chewed over on the resort board about this! During the week of Thanksgiving my family was swimming at the main pool at OKW. While I was in the sauna a couple were discussing how clever they were to stay at a Holiday Inn Express and use WDW resort facilities. I mentioned it to a CM and they were asked to leave. Did I do the right thing? I was pretty upset to think that all of my hard earned money was being spent to upkeep that pool and they were there just enjoying it for free. What do you think?

[Richyams]

I Would have done the same exact thing.

Jey, I even spy on my neighbors looking for people with five in a one bedroom!!!!

I think that people are stealing when they do what you described or what I spy for.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[Jaypd]

I cant hold back and may get some slack for this.. But here goes no you did nothing wrong when it came to the pool thing. But I belive someone going to a CM about 5 in a one bedroom is wrong. The people in the pool are not paying guests but the room next to maybe a member who cant afford enough points for a family of 5 to go away for a nice trip and get a 2 bedroom everytime. If they are paying there dues and own points they are doing nothing wrong. By having another in the room is not costing any other member more money. So it is no big deal. Well I went on long enough. Please this is IMHO so please no one take it personal

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[Disnydad]

Yes, you did the right thing. We pay for the upkeep of DVC and these people are stealing from us! :mad:

Don

[eva]

I feel a bit better. Just to let you know, I do have a lot of the same concerns that you voice on this board. I do not like to think that any of us DVC members are out there breaking the rules but I am sure that it is happening. And the bit about Vero is a concern of mine also. We stayed there in 99 and decided to take the tour to see all the different rooms. They tried to tell us that we could just buy there and use them at WDW like we do our points at OKW. We said, "What about the 11 month window?" They said that really didn't matter. Luckily we knew better. Thanks again! I'm gald that there is someone out there a lot more vocal than myself.

[eva]

When I made my second post Rich was the only one who responded. Thanks to everyone for making me feel better. On the resort board someone even called me a tattler.

[kem330]

How could anyone on the resort board chew you out for that? Anyone paying to be at resort property or DVC shouldn't put up with that. We make a choice to pay to be on site. Anyone using the facilities and not paying to stay there is a cheater and should be kicked out.I hate to drag 5 in a room into this issue! There could be circumstances such as no 2 BR available, a small child in the party, etc. You can legally have 5 in a BC/YC, BWI, Poly, GF and those rooms are roughly the same size as a studio.

[Peggy Sue]

I say thank you and job well done! We all need to be care takers of our home resorts!

Have a wonderful day!

[PamOKW]

Absolutely you did the right thing. These people were trespassers at OKW. Not only using the pool is a concern but the idea that people who don't belong are wandering the grounds is a concern. Also, think about how crowded the parking lot gets when we're trying to check-in and how crowded the pool can be. And, they were stupid too if they were bragging about it while still at OKW. ;)

[Richyams]

I think they should have bounties. 25 Disney Dollars for each pool intruder, 35 if they have dirty feet, 50 if they are off site guests.

25 Disney Dollars for reporting five in a one bedroom, 30 for five in a studio, 50 for six in a one bedroom, 75 for six in a studio.

Money talks.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[going2wdw]

Sorry Rich but I can't help myself. What would the difference be with 5 or 6 in a studio or 1 bedroom? Both are over the limit by the same amount shouldn't the bounty be the same? A rule is a rule. May not do any good to report them anyway from post here we know that Disney takes reservations for those numbers so they probably already know.

You did the right thing Eva. One of the perks we have yet to try is pool hopping and if people not allowed in the pools are there it could diminish that perk for DVC members also. My daughters really want to try out Storm-a-long Bay and I hope they get the chance someday.

Janette http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/daisy.gif http://www.geocities.com/teridoolittle/WLlogo.gif
WDW Offsite ? - 1976
WDW Offsite Vistana - 1988
Disneyland - 1998
WDW Vistana / Contemporary - June 2000
Just couldn't wait trip - Feb 2001 OKW
DIS-CON 2001 - BWV

[Dean]

You absolutely did the right thing and I'm wondering why anyone that's ethical could be upset with you on this one. What's their angle? Were they DVC members, I suspect not. Do be aware that many timeshares offer members year round access to the facilities, but not DVC.

Dean

[DisneyMim]

Yes you did the right thing. I don't like seeing this sort of thing either. Just for info, years ago the same thing was happening at Y&B resort. People were entering at International Gateway, carrying bags, changing in the rest rooms and using the pool. I can remember people talking about this over there and thinking they were so cool to have thought of this great way to use a Disney resort pool. Well, enough people complained and now they have a gate around the pool.

[dvcdudes]

I thought the 5 in 1 thing was cleared up in a previous thread. DVC MS say it's ok.

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000

[Richyams]

How does every piece of paper with an occupancy written on it, the continueing of new owners to sign a Product Understanding Checklist that has the occupany limits, MS saying that they discorouge over-occupany by not providing bedding, MS saying that it is on a case by case basis, How does all that work out to "Ms says its ok"?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[Fenceman]

I also think you did the right thing. The people on the resort board may be comparing this to a regular hotel or resort because they do not have the same frame of reference as an owner. You have a vested interest in the DVC system and its like they are taking advantage of you.

As far as the DEAD HORSE 5 in a bedroom, I would rather see family (DVC members) bend the rules a little before strangers do something like the above example.

[Tigger1]

My family feels strange going pool hopping and we as DVC owners are allowed to pool hop.

You did the right thing by telling the CM. I would have wanted to say something myself. Maybe the resort buses need to take the time to check for resort keys. As it is now anyone could get into the resorts.

As for the 5 in a room, I can not imagine that many dvcers buying and staying in a studio with 5. Does anyone know how much this is actually abused?

I think that renting points to strangers would be
more of a problem than members breaking 5 in a studio or 1 bedroom rule.

Tigger

http://disneyclipart.simplenet.com/Movies/Winnie_the_Pooh/Pooh_and_Tigger/pooh-tig05.gif

[SAKPEG99OKW]

Eva, you did the right thing. We as DVC members pay to have the right to our pools, rooms and service. These moochers were not even staying on site, what nerve. I could see if they were on site, but even then, if you pay 75.00 a day for all star then you should swim at all star.

PS. My DW and I have stayed at the all star sports and loved it.

Eva, keep up the good work, and do it again if you have the chance.

Scott and peg

[Dean]

dvcdudes, the idea that many people overlook the rules does not change them. MS has knowingly let people schedule 5 or even 6 in a studio or 1 BR and they have also denied reservations in these same scenarios. The rules are in writing, the enforcement is spotty. So yes I guess we cleared it up, we just didn't tell all of the guides, MS or the resorts. Look to see more stringent enforcement in the next 3-6 months but there will always be those that will do this on the sly.

Dean

[wdwnut]

Eva- fair is fair and you did the correct thing. i'm sure the posters on the resort board haven't thought this all the way through, or they, too, want something for nothing. one of the posts over there is complaining about guests at another disney resort not being able to swim with resort guests from a different hotel. the appropriate action would be to ask the cms at the resort concerned if it would be a problem and abide by that decision. rich's bounty idea is funny. thanks.

[ripleysmom]

Eva, absolutely you did the right thing. Hopefully these people were embarassed enough to let it deter them in the future.

As for 5 in a room. Piece of paper or not, it seems to be a gray area. I also think that given the amount of lattitude that DVC and CMs have given guests in the way of allowing 5 in a room, if someone went to court to challenge it they could conceivably win.

While we will never have more than 4 in a room (only 4 of us), I really do not have a problem with 5 in a room and wouldn't run to "tattle".

Kimberly-Lucas and Ripley's Mom

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[waltfan]

Excellent job at the pool. Enough with the # of people in the rooms.

[dmadman43]

fine then. On my next reservation, I'm booking a studio plus, bringing 8 people, along with some aerobeds (they are pretty portable. They fit nicely in the overhead bins of a plane). The aerobeds will be on the floor so as not to put undo stress on the resort beds. Think MS will let me do that? If not, I may just tell them I'm only bringing 4 people and will bring 8 anyway and just won't say anything. Anyone have a problem with that? :cool:

[JackDiznee]

...for watching over the place for us.

If that Holiday Inn has free coffee and pastries in their lobby, I'm sure that the guests that stay there would not appreciate a couple hundred DVCers coming in one morning and helping themselves to the freebies.

OKW 8/94

[This message was edited by JackDiznee on 02-14-01 at 05:39 PM.]

[PKK/MJK]

Without a doubt you did exactly the right thing!! I would have done it, too. What nerve those people had. It would be bad enough if they were staying at a Disney hotel, but they were off property. I am sure the Holiday Inn had a perfectly nice pool for swimming . I can't imagine what rationale the people on the Resorts Board are using to condemn your actions. Anyway--ignore them--You were right. Three Cheers for EVA!!!

Phil and Mary Jo
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WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[dvcdudes]

I don't remember ever seeing anything that states "occupancy limits". I do see something saying "sleeps" (four for a studio and 1 bedroom). I really don't want to start a new debate. We are a family of 4 and may never put 5 in 1 but we were told by our sales rep that it wouldn't be a problem if our DS's wanted to bring a friend and put 5 in 1 (or studio). She pointed out to me the fact that it states "sleeps 4" and told us we would have to supply a blow up mattress etc. but it is allowed. I'm at work and don't have my book with me to look this up and I never did because it really don't apply to us (4). If it does use the word "limit", I guess that ends that but if all it says is "sleeps", add this to what sales reps are saying and the fact that MS lets you have ressies with 5 and then that ends that again.
I don't want to be a pot stirrer and I know this is off the original subject but I just thought I remebered someone posting that MS stated via email that "5 in 1 is ok". BTW on the member website it states "sleeps" not "limit".
I'm usually very non-confrontational but I would "rat" on someone using the facilities from another outside hotel BUT I for one would be QUITE upset if I had reservations for 5 and was questioned. I'm on vacation when in WDW and have a lot better things to do then to spy on other guests to see how many people they have in their rooms.

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000

[dianeschlicht]

This thread is about protecting our interests from non-paying people.

You absolutely did the right thing in telling a cast member and having them removed. We pay dearly to have our own pool. Why should someone who is freeloading have the ability to use our pool and towels. etc. I can't figure out how they got in there in the first place. We have to announce when we are going to use our pool hopping privelidge, so how do these people get in? :( :eek:

Disneydiane

[PamOKW]

DVCDudes -- There are places in the offering statement and elsewhere where it describes limits as "maximum occupancy" and other language more direct than "sleeps". This topic has been discussed several times and you can find those discussions here and over on the Debate Board. It appears that on a case by case basis an extra child has been allowed in a unit and new purchasers were told what you were while older purchasers were specifically told they needed a 2-bedroom for their families of 5. However, nothing sent to members indicates the limits have been bumped up one per room. No one here knows for sure how this is handled. It is a DVC decision.

[dianeschlicht]

Could you give us a link to the thread on the resort board? I couldn't find it over there. Would like to see what the arguments were.

Disneydiane

[POLLY ANN]

What cracks me up is WHY would anyone want to go to the OKW pool when they could sly their way into the BW pool or Storm-a-long Bay?

With all the complaints about how crummy and boring the OKW pool is (I like it that way, BTW), it seems strange that people picked that one to crash. Oh, well, I guess we'll never know what makes some people tick. ;)

Good job on reporting them, eva. You did the right thing. :)

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[RoutemanDan]

Here is the thread (http://wdwinfo.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=40009993&f=15009194&m=238094898). I read it last night and could not believe some of the nasty,mean posts included.Eva,you absoloutly did the right thing.

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[dianeschlicht]

Actually, it was quite entertaining! I still can't figure out how people get in to do this. Maybe someone isn't doing there job. I agree that if you were going to crash a pool, why not go for the best? Maybe it just means it is easier to do at OKW. I haven't even used pool hopping priveldges yet. I never have enough time! :)

Disneydiane

[TnRobin]

Hey guys

Just a reminder, keep your post on topic. This is not about the occupancy issue. It is about alerting Managment to non-resort guest using resort facilities.

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[Beachangel]

You absolutely did the right thing whether it be DVC or regular hotel. Amenities are for paying guests only. Good for you for having the courage to speak up!

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the THINKS you can think up, if only you try." Dr. Seuss

[This message was edited by Beachangel on 02-14-01 at 10:06 AM.]

[reneesam]

Eva,
I think you did the right thing. I agree that many of the replies you got were from people who did not understand your messages about ownership and fees that we, as members, do. It's one thing to pay a higher fee per night for a deluxe hotel...it's another to be a deeded owner, pay a huge buy-in, pay huge annual fees, and participate in member meetings. It's too bad the thread is closed...we could have linked them to this one! ;)

P.S. Rich, no DVC members have dirty feet...only "outsiders" do!!!! ;) ;) ;)

[PamOKW]

I'm not sure how much of this pool crashing goes on but I suspect it's probably higher than we think. A former co-worker always went around to WDW pools while visiting her family in the area. (She once called my room at CBR to join her and her sister at the pool but I was out at the parks.) In that case, they had to somehow get past the guard with no real reason to be at CBR. I wasn't real happy that they were able to do this, especially during Christmas, but they made a regular practice at all of the WDW hotels.

I agree that OKW is a strange pool to pick but they may have been spending the day. After all, you have the pool, the sauna, the tennis courts and the gym and then you hop a bus to any of the parks. ;) Heck, they may have been brazen enough to walk onto the golf course and hit a few holes, too! Not bad for whatever they were paying to stay at Holiday Inn!

Pool crashing at Vero got out of hand early on. That's why you need your room card to enter the pool area, get towels and even to order food from the snack bar. The lifeguards there also have developed a 6th sense about who doesn't belong and are quick to ask folks to leave.

I wouldn't actually confont anyone yourself at the resorts since you never know what people will do or you may make a mistake. But, I don't see anything wrong with discreetly letting a CM know what you suspect.

[downontheBW]

Thanks, eva, for protecting our interests. You probably got so much flack on the Resorts Board because they are not owners and we are. We have more of a vested interest - we know we'll be back next year.ÿ :D :D
?

Dixie Landings '94, '96
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HHI '01

Heidi

[Figaro30]

Eva, I'd do exactly the same thing. If I ever hear anything like that myself I'll be the first one to go and report them.

Personally I even think that the villas shouldn't be open to the public for rent. It should only be for DVC members. But that's only my opinion. I hear stories of how people left the rooms in horrible condition, etc.

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'88 - Disneyland
'89 - Maingate East
'91 - CBR
'94 - CBR
'95 - CBR
'98 - BC
'00 - WL
'01 - OKW

[TampaDisneyFreaks]

To quote our favorite Disney Villain, "Two Thumbs WAAAAY UP!" You absolutely did the right thing! Obviously the folks who lambasted you on the resorts board have never stayed at a Disney Resort if they chewed you out. They (CM's) have been a little lax in this lately, but prior to joining the DVC when we stayed on property on cash ressies, we were ALWAYS told that there is no pool hopping allowed on property! That is even for Disney reosrt guests! The reason given was everyone would go to Storm-Along-Bay. The only exceptions were sister resorts (DXL guests could use PO pool, and vice-versa). Pool Hopping (which our guide never told us about and we only heard of it thru this board as a DVC benefit) is a benefit apparently only available to DVC members. It is especially good that you turned them in, since as DVC members, we are not just guests at the resort, but are OWNERS of the resort. Also, the reason I say the CM's have been lazy about this lately is that the last few times (including this past weekend) when we stayed on property using cash ressies instead of points, the CM failed to mention the no pool hopping rule. This was at Coronado and ressies were booked thru Disney Central Reservations, so they didn't have the excuse of assuming we were DVC members and had this privilege. Eva, our hats (with mouse ears of course!) are off to you!

[Figaro30]

Also just wanted to let you know about that last thread you were involved in...

Even though this is the DIS board...that doesn't stop people from being extremely nasty
son-of-a-*****'s. I've learned that from experience.

Don't let other people's opinions sway you on what you deep down feel is right! Only you know how you feel about certain things.

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'81 - Cont.
'88 - Disneyland
'89 - Maingate East
'91 - CBR
'94 - CBR
'95 - CBR
'98 - BC
'00 - WL
'01 - OKW

[TheLionKing]

How can they be "smart enough" to figure out a way to abuse the system and then be DUMB enough to brag about it!!

I applaud your efforts Eva!!

Makes me wonder how many other people abuse this and are smart enough to keep their mouths shut.

****************************
Past
DL multiple times
WDW offsite '92, Grosvenor '96, AS-Mu '98,
Disneyana Convention AS-Mu '00

Future
Disneyana Conv 2001 at GC
DIS Convention 2001 at Y&B
OKW and BWV New Years 2002

[mattsdad]

You absolutely did the right thing. After all , it is called disney vacation "club" and those people weren't members. I would have forced them to clean my room also, however

[Toxicesq]

Totally the right thing. They knew they were cheating. Some resorts make guests wear colored ID bands, or check room keys at the entrance to the pool to keep out the trespassers. And I'll bet they were using pool towels, too!!!

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BWV: 11/00

[chris1gill]

I would have done the exact same thing!! That would have really irked me to be sitting in any Disney spa or pool & to have the people next to me paying thirty dollars a night with the ability to just walk right into the spa or pool? That's not right!!

[PoohBear88]

Thank you Eva! I would've done the same. ;)

[eva]

Thanks for boosting my spirits. I really thought I must be a party pooper to tell on that couple and their two kids. I thought maybe it was the teacher in me coming out. It did get me a bit mad to think of my hard earned money supporting their vacation. I really do believe that people should not be using facilities that they are not paying for. Before DVC we used to stay at the CBR and I never even thought about going to another resort to use their facilities. I think that whatever resort you stay at (on or off site) has the price of the facilities included in the night stay. People should remember that they get what they pay for. Thanks again!

[normr]

You did the proper thing, the one thing that gets me from reading the messages from the resort board is that those people posting don't know that DVC members ARE allowed to pool hop, I think we need to let them know it is A BENEFIT of DVC membership.

[NJmouse]

Eva you did the right thing. I hope it wasn't anybody who uses this website. SHAME ON THEM!!! As for 5 in a room --- Has anyone brought up this subject at the Thursday morning get-togethers? Maybe it should be a subject to discuss there.

[This message was edited by NJmouse on 02-16-01 at 08:06 AM.]

[WDWDad]

Eva, if we are ever at OKW together I'm buying at the Gurgling Suitcase. GOOD JOB!

[dumbo33]

I have read with interest these answers concerning the correct thing to do. We did ask about occupancy in studios, and was told there would be no problem with 5 but there would not be any bedding. No one wants to break any rules, but we were told by a DVC rep. that is would be okay. There was nothing in our paperwork that made any mention about occupancy limits. All we want is to enjoy Disney, the people and the magic.
I do agree with non members using the pool, that seems to be very wrong.

[Patpat15]

So I should leave my 4 year old home?! At MS they said it was ok, I asked three times, when I called to add the days. Should I feel guilty with 5 in a 1 bedroom if three are my kids, 10, 8, and a 4year old. Are there people looking out to tell on us?

Hope Richyama isn't at BWV this week, spying on us!

[Richyams]

Actually, the occupancy limts are on the papers you signed. They prominantly appear on a seperate sheet called "Product Understanding Checklist", some one at disney felt they were important enough to give them a headline spot on a special sheet that needed to be signed seperately.

I guess sales won, the idea of selling points beat out the idea of running the resort with integrity.

Its not the owners that were told things by DVC sales, its DVC sales fault for not caring about the resort.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[Dean]

Slightly off topic I guess so censor me if you must, or we could just start the thread all over again if everyone want to, LOL. The fact that we've even seriously discussed what a timeshare salesman said as having any meaning is very funny to me. For heaven's sake, they're trying to sell you something for twice what it cost. While DVC, Marriott, Royals and maybe a couple of others are certainly above the pack, as a group timeshare salesman are lower than used car salesman. If it weren't for those like DVC that are far more ethical (on average) than most of the rest, they'd be lower than politicians.

Realize that many that purchase timeshares are being told things like you can sell for a profit, trade for anything in the II (RCI) book, rent for big bucks, the fees will never go up, unlimited internal trading, etc. Some resorts have even oversold floating time much like the air lines do with the seats, I guess that makes the air lines no better than timeshare salesman or vice versa (I guess the shoe fits).

Repeat after me, "I'll never say the DVC rep told me (fill in the blank) for anything that's directly covered and described totally differently in the legal paperwork".

Dean