Suprise

[ASmith]

I called to today to make reservations for an upcoming trip to BWV in December. I figured since it was going to be an off season time, there should not be any problem getting a standard view, using less points. When we were there in December of 1999, there seem to be plenty of rooms and a very quite time to see the resorts all decked out in their Christmas finest.

So, here is my problem. I asked to arrive on Sunday, December 2 and depart on Friday, December 7. There are no rooms available for that time in any accommidation, studio, 1 BR or 2BR or no Grand Villa. However, there is room available for December 16.

I asked to be put on the wait list. I just wonder what in the WORLD is going on during that time of the year at WDW that I am not aware of. I will also add the perferred view, since only 20% of the rooms are standard view.

Wish me luck, for we have 2 other couples planning their vacation during that time too.

[SAKPEG99OKW]

Asmith, December is one of the busiest times in WDW. Historicaly, the first two weeks are the slowest and the last two are the most crowded. A lot of DVC members go the first two weeks because children are still in school and the parks are all decorated and the crowds are lot less. The general public so to speak goes the last two weeks mainly because of school and the extra days off from the holidays. I would say keep trying. I called last week and got a standard view at BWV from 12/12/01 to 12/19/01.

Good luck

Scott and Peg

[Richyams]

There are no times at all the the eleven month window isn't important. Slow season means low points, high demand for DVC rooms, especially since Disney started selling those tiny 150 point packages.

High demand seasons are just that and also require the eleven month window be used.

It is these constant reports that make me doubt the people that bought at VB and claim that they have no problem getting what they want at the seven month window.

The eleven month window is very valuable, it needs to be used.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[Tommy]

I just checked e-bay and there are three different folks offering DVC vacations. One seems to have quiet an offering, just tell him when you want to go and how long to stay.

I know this is not funny. I'm not making light of your delima, but just shows that there are still those who try to make a profit and in the end, we who want to use our own membership loose out. :mad:

DVC Hilton Head Member since 1997
My DVC Hilton Head Resort Page (http://www.members.tripod.com/~ttowery)

[ASmith]

It seems that Walt Disney's 100th birthday is December 5, 2001. That might be the reason for some of the tightness of rooms. I also wonder how many folks book using the 11 month window, hoping to change to Wilderness Lodge Villas when they get to the 7 month window ??

Just some thoughts.

[Peggy Sue]

lots of DVC members vacation during the first 2 weeks of december. reservations were difficult to come by last year too. I booked our 11/28 - 12/9 trip for 2001 in three different calls to MS because I didn't want to miss getting our reservations. MS has had a message that wait times are long due to members making their holiday reservations..and this was on their system for dates beginning right around thanksgiving forward.

Get on a wait list. You will have the choice of being called if all of your desired dates become available or on a day by day basis. Lots of folks do cancel vacations as it gets closer to their banking windows and the 31 day cancellation window. The wait list may work just fine for you.

Good luck!

Have a wonderful day!

[garrett79]

Well, the 11 month window certainly is important if you own at that resort. I just wish we all had the foresight to buy in back in '92 instead of being stuck with these "tiny 150 point packages" Can you ever say anything nice about anyone that didnt follow your blueprint to DVC wisdom exactly? Correct me if I am wrong but you are just as valued a customer with 150 pts as 550 pts, right?

[LooHoo]

Garrett,
Yes, You are just as much a part of things and valued as anyone else except for maybe the MOUSE himself. Some people feel they have the answeres to everything and should be running DVC. Opinions- compassionate conservitism- oxymoron? Whatever! I was happy to hear that you got your ressie and I am happy to report that I booked BWV Aug. 4-9 for my parents anniversary! Just another case of the 11 month window not needed for me. Just keep smiling as you use your DVC 150 points at Vero with pride! Your as WELCOME as can be!
KAY

[Richyams]

Garret, my comments certainly weren't directed at you, I didn't even know the number of points you bought, I probably read your posting of it, but certainly wasn't aware of it.

I, and I am not alone in ths opinion, believe that Disney has done us all a diservice by continually lowering the number of point required to buy in. This hurts us all in several ways. It makes the weekends have a lower occupancy rate, this could force them to even out the point differential, this would hurt the people with the small packages the most, but what it would do that is worse then that, is allow FLorida residents, like myself, to take weekends at WDW all the time. This would make it nearly impossible to book one week or longer stays, that is the reason for the differential in the first place.

It also does us all a diservice by making studios scarce, this in turn lowers the number of two bedroom units available. Now families of 5-8 will need to crowd into a one bedroom since the studios are all taken.

What is worse, is selling points at a resort that no one intends to visit, VB, this hurts us by making short term reservations very difficult at WDW properties at the seven month window. Disney offering all these wild deal to sell their poorly selling resort at the expense of existing owners is wrong and probably actionable.

These are all long term concerns of mine, my comments above were certainly not directed at you.

Notice all the MAJOR problems people are having 9 and 10 months out.....

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[garrett79]

Rich,Isnt it nice that Disney is offering these smaller packages so EVERYONE could be involved if so desired? Or was it set up for an elitist few who can buy large chunks of points. Loohoo, thanks for the support. If it werent for the kind words from you and the vast majority of people on this board I would have backed out due to the negative influence of one person. One last thing, before I would resort to spying on my fellow DVC member and counting how many people they have in a room, I wouldnt buy into such an elitist club.God knows I have a life and better things to do on vacation than count how many people go into a room.

[Tommy]

Ditto Garrett ;)

DVC Hilton Head Member since 1997
My DVC Hilton Head Resort Page (http://www.members.tripod.com/~ttowery)

[LooHoo]

Garrett
APLAUSE, APLAUSE, APLAUSE !!!!!!!!

[ReneeQ]

We bought into BWV in Feb. 2000 while at WDW. While there then we tried to book a trip at BWV (our home resort) for Dec. 2000, just a few days shy of the 11 month window. The place was booked solid for the first week of December 2000. There was NOTHING our guide could do, she tried for days and couldn't get us a reservation. We ended up moving our trip up to Oct. 2000 and had no trouble getting in. Our guide thought the first week of Dec. being booked solid had something to do with the annual BWV members meeting being that week. Maybe that's the problem again.

[Richyams]

No, as a matter of fact that is not WHY Disney is making the buy in smaller....that is kind of silly. Disney is making the packages smaller so they can sell more points, they don't care that the selling of points hurts existing members.

Just like using WDW DVC resorts to sell the poorly selling VB points, they don't care about hurting present members as long as they can sell more points.

I wonder if you could respond to the individuel claims I made or if you think being sarcastic is sufficient?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[dmadman43]

Well, I, for one, appreciate Rich's straightforward and insightful comments. "Fair and balanced", is how I view them. Sure, they may appear to the most ardent DVC and Disney cheerleader to be harsh and critical, but I certainly don't think Disney is infallable. Disney doesn't do what they do out of the kindness of their hearts. They do what they do to make money for their shareholders. As far as DVC goes, their goal is to sell MORE memberships.They already have our money.

It seems, from reading the experiences of the board members in these almost 1000 posts (and I've looked a a large percentage of those in doing my DVC purchasing research), that Rich's insight is correct more often than not. Disney has made some mistakes in their running of DVC over time. That doesn't mean it is a bad investment, or we aren't fans because of it. They are not infallible. Let's hope they learn from their mistakes and make changes that will both benefit their members and their bottomline, thus their shareholders.

[PKK/MJK]

I tend to agree that Rich's comments, while sometimes a bit harsh, are usually correct in the long run. Part of the problem with the written word is that it can be mis-interpreted since we cannot see the face or hear the voice of the writer. Personally, I admire Rich's ability and willingness to put his opinions out there--although occasionally I have had the urge to "bop him upside the head." LOL!!

Maybe I'm off base here, but I always figured that Disney keeps lowering the minimum points people need to purchase because they keep raising the price per point. As I recall, when we purchased in 1993, the minimum purchase was 240 points. If that were still the minimum at the current $72/point price a buyer would need $17,280 to become a member. But with a 150 point purchase at $72/point, they'd only need $10,800. That's a big difference--almost $6500!!! It seems like it would be a lot easier to convince people to invest 10,800. Disney does everything to help the bottom line--which as a business, I guess is smart. Does this make any sense?

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[garrett79]

Ok, let me see if I can get through this without being sarcastic. Of course Disney is trying to sell as many points they can, they are after all, a business. Our respective income levels allow us to purchase however many points we want. Why should only certain levels be allowed to purchase? Further, VB is sold at 65% well ahead of Hilton Head, does that mean HH is a failing property as well? Let's take VB out of the equation, if Disney only had VWL available they would be flooding the market with 150 point purchases there so it makes no difference where you buy unless you have to have a certain time, a certain resort. I will never have a need for a grand villa and we are incredbily flexible on when we go to the resorts. I could buy more points, but why? This fits our needs fine.Finally, I am a Disney stockholder so the more money they make the better. Our should they stop selling so you can get the week you want?

[dvc_john]

I wonder how many people who bought in at 150 points now own much more than that.

When I first looked, the minimum was 230 and I didn't buy in. I did when it came down to 150.
I now own 465.

[jcodespoti]

I to disagree about DVC being an "investment". As a pure investment I think its a bad choice (although I see Resale prices moving up). I choose DVC for vacations use, and if thats what you use it for and not to make money on, then yes its a wise "investment"
Why did Disney drop the point totals? Sales. The could "move" more points if the cost was lower. How do make the cost lower and still keep your profit margin up? Lower the point requirement and keep the same cost per point.
I disagree with rich about the harm this would cause by forcing DVC to lower the weekend point charges and therefore spreading them out over an entire week. I see this as a benefit (at least for me). I feel this would cause more people to stay on the weekends and therefore free up more time during the week (yes, its a theory).
As far as the "tiny" point alotment, I bought the min. (150 points). Then added 50. this enough for me. I am looking at either Vero or HH (I love the water!) Probably another 150 or 200.
My point is this BUY WHATS GOOD FOR YOU. If you love Disney buy 10,000 points (I think thtas enough to stay all year in a 1-bedroom), or buy 150 points it is up to you.


Joe In CT

[LooHoo]

I think Disney has adjusted the buy in price for a few different reasons. To keep the price at a level where a LOT of people can afford it. I also think that initially they believed people would utilize the larger units more than what has taken place. As you have stated Rich, the studios and 1 bedrooms seem to be the most popular accommodations. I think 150 points is a nice level to cover those costs . People already avoid weekends like the plague and decreasing the initial buy in will not effect that in my opinion. Anybody who has budgetary concerns will stretch their points be it 230 or 150. I think the reservation habits have been studied and points adjusted to reflect that. This is probubally why you dont see any more Villas being built. This system has many checks and balances built in so, it is bound to change to reflect its membership. You dont have to like the change and it may not represent your habits but after all we are but 2 of 48000.

[kamgen]

I called first thing in the morning on Jan. 8 for our 11 month window. We are checking into a 2bdroom standard at BWV on Dec. 2 and checking out on the 8th. We were lucky to get it.
I called back a week later to confirm and get my points amount again (forgot to write it all down) and the cm told me that it was almost sold out already for that week!
I hope you get it. Keep calling back and good luck!
kamgen

Off site '94
AllStar-Movies '99
DxL '00 Honeymoon
DVC Member 4/00
BWV 9/00
VB 9/00
DCL-Wonder 1/01
OKW 1/01
Upcoming:
BWV 12/01
DCL-Magic 12/29/01

[spiceycat]

when I first looked at DVC the minumin points were 265 this was too much for me. I was told that if sales did not pick up DVC was lowering the points needed - which they did the following year to 190 so I brought then. I now have 450 points but these were brought over the years in small installments. They lowerer it to 150 points for the same reason, to get more people to buy. Kept in mind DVC has been on the market since 1991, it is only lately that demand has been so great.

[CarolAnnC]

Please remember No Personal Attacks or caustic, sarcastic remarks please! Let's stay polite and keep the thought-provoking thread going! :)

<font size=4><font color=purple><font face=BrushArt>Carol</font></font></font>
http://www.geocities.com/snugglesbarr/iluvchat.gif
but I am NOT addicted to it...

<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - Theme Park Attractions and Strategies Board</font></font>
<font color=purple><font face=tahoma>Co Mod - Cruise Board</font></font>
<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - DVC Board</font></font>
<font color=purple><font face=tahoma>Cruise & DVC Chat Host

[garrett79]

Carol, not sure if you are referring to me (maybe, maybe not) but I am seriously reconsidering getting out of this program. I have seen the following behavior:
1)Making unsupported ACCUSATIONS against DVC sales staff.
2)Spying on fellow DVC members
3)Condescending remarks about the amount of points people purchase and where the purchase them (Duped into VB).

These things really make me question whether or not to associate with people like this. Of course, IMHO opinion this is exactly what they want. They want to protect what they see as their own little exclusive club and try to dissuade anyone else from buying in. As far as personal attacks, I am sure that members I disagree with are good people and not ethically challenged but the last time I checked, it is free speech, no matter what the perspective.

[Richyams]

1).........

Who made any unsupported claims about DVC sales staff??

2)......

Spying??? Come one, does anyone think I was serious about peering into windows looking for extra guests? And I think that the pool crashers that blatantly boast of it should be evicted.

3)........

Since DVC sales staff uses lies to get people to by into VB, some are "duped" into buying there. Many have come here and gotton the truth and backed out of the contracts they were "duped" into buying.

You, on the other hand, went in with your eyes open, aware of the situation and difficulties associated with owning at VB and planning to vacation at WDW, you made an informed decision. I think that is great.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[TampaDisneyFreaks]

Early to mid Dec. appear to be busy times for DVC since it is a low point season. Also, BWV appears to be the hot place to stay right now. It also is the time of the BWV meeting (but I heard that is not real heavily attended, maybe 70 people there last year). Since Walt's b-day falls during that time and he is the big focus for Disney this year b/c it is his 100th, that compounds the problem. Also, those 2 weeks tend to be slow at the parks, so Floridians like my DW and I, love to go there at that time b/c it is dead at the parks and all the decorations are up. I called on Jan. 23 to get Dec. 12-16 (just inside the 11 month window, we own at BWV) and was able to get a std view studio, but the CM at MS remarked that they were surprised that it was still available. Keep trying and get on a waitlist. If you can, you may want to consider VWL or OKW. I was able to book the same time for last year at OKW well within the 7 month window with no problem. Good Luck

[garrett79]

Fair enough. Maybe I took you a little too seriously....

[kamgen]

I am confused about what is meant by saying that DVC lies to sell VB?
We bought an add on at VB because we love it there. We have found no trouble booking there and don't recall being lied to.
Just curious.
Thanks
kamgen :)

Off site '94
AllStar-Movies '99
DxL '00 Honeymoon
DVC Member 4/00
BWV 9/00
VB 9/00
DCL-Wonder 1/01
OKW 1/01
Upcoming:
BWV 12/01
DCL-Magic 12/29/01

[LauraS]

Any advise given on these boards should never be taken as absolute fact. Everyone has different perspectives and very often emotion gets the better of folks around here. Some see Disney as "their" company, one that would never try and dupe us DVCers. Other see Disney as the evil empire always out to screw all of us. Most of us fall in the middle somewhere. I tend to think that Disney is a great service-oriented company and that's why I bought into the DVC.

Always remember that *all* opinions given out around here are subjective. For the most part I avoid too much opinion reading and stick to reading the stuff that is valuable to me like what's up at the resorts, how ressies are holding up at a particular time and the like.

These bits of advise are posted by and large by DVCers who we've never met. Why on earth would you let one person's opinions steer you away from joining the DVC. I mean, think about it....the DVC is just like the general population in some respects. Do you really think that we are all the same? If you talk to ten different DVCers, you'll get ten different opinions. I know that it's difficult at times to *not* take some of the comments around here personally, but you have to try and let it roll of your back.

Personally, I think Rich has some very valid points and I tend to agree with him more than disagree. Maybe he's a little harsh at times, but reading the written word as opposed to face to face conversation is a tricky thing. Sometimes it's difficult to ascertain someone's tone by strictly reading a paragraph. Having said that, I agree wholeheartedly that the 11 month window is important for most of us. I *don't* agree because someone said it around here. I know that for me it has most certainly mattered. I have lucked out once at the 5 month window, but for me that was a huge exception and not the rule. Many folks around here truly believe that you should buy where you think you'll want to spend the most time. Now, just like all the other opinions given around here....take that piece of advise for what it's worth to you.

I don't think that there's anyone who loves Disney more than I do. There are many, many here who love it just as much though. Many of the folks hang around here as you do. Just don't let subjective opinionated posts in *either* direction sway your decision. Make your own decision based on your own research.

Laura

[WebmasterPete]

Well, Free Speech means that you are free to create your own site, and your own forums and say whatever you want there. I have no problem with differing opinions on the site, as long as people remain RESPECTFUL. If that doesn't happen, posts will be deleted and people asked to leave. Those are the guidelines everyone agreed to when they registered to post, and they will be respected and enforced.

Pete

------------------------
Pete Werner
My motto...why sleep when you can work?

Unofficial Disney Information Station - http://www.wdwinfo.com
Unofficial Universal Information Station - http://www.usfinfo.com
Dreams Unlimited Travel - http://www.dreamsunlimitedtravel.com

[RAD]

It looks like it's not just December that's busy. I called to try to get a 1BR at BWV for a Saturday through Wednesday for one of the first three weeks in November, sorry all booked up (unless you want a date here or a date there and waitlist). OK, list try going back a few weeks into October, first date I could get was weekend of 10/13.

Well we can't blame OKW folks for taking the rooms since we're not at the 7 month window yet, so BWV folks are doing it themselves. Is the problem all the new folks that joined at the end of last year now making their reservations, and like most folks borrowing so they can stay in a nice room longer then their original point purchase? It just seems strange that so many folks are having problems this far out booking rooms.

[garrett79]

Not for nothing but how respectful have people been when they INSINUATE people are duped or too poor to buy more than 150 points.How disrespectful is that? Rich, I am sure, is obviously a very devoted DVC member who has contributed to this forum many times.However, lack of respect can be shown in many ways, from insinuation to outright rudeness. I took offense to the insinuation that anyone who bought at VB for 150 pts was lied to, duped and basically not intelligent enough to see through the DVC sales smoke screen. I reserve the right to offer my opinions and will continue to do so while avoiding any percived personal attacks, insinuated or not.

[mattsdad]

I guess I have just been lucky. I have booked at BWV twice with only 2-3 months notice at a 1BR without much problem. Had to move a vacation back one week was all.

[chris1gill]

The last couple of Decembers have been this way... the nights you asked for filled up within 2 weeks of the ability to book them... standards booked up within a couple of days... I assume all of December right up til Christmas will be similar... Sorry you waited so long...you should be able to get either Wilderness Lodge or Old Key west at the 7 month mark hopefully?

good luck!

[drusba]

Having read through this post, I now think I have it:

1. VB owners were all duped and lied to by DVC sales reps because everyone knows that in 10 years, due to global warming, it will sink into the sea.

2. Anyone who bought only 150 points did not vote for George Bush (or at least they think they didn't).

3. Reservations at BWV are impossible to get because it really does not exist.

4. You should buy where you plan to stay the most, and I hope that is somewhere in Outer Mongolia.

5. Disney has a plot to require owners with over 400 points to double up in rooms with owners with under 200 points, at which time the homicide level and, thankfully, the availability level will greatly increase.

6. The major benefit of the Internet is that I get to speak my peace without any annoying interruptions. The major disadvantage is that everyone else gets to speak their peace without any necessary interruptions.

[Richyams]

Who ever said anything about being to poor?

My concern over these small packages is that it makes people more likely to avoid weekends like the plague, it also makes the low point seasons more difficult, it also forces people use studios more often.

That is what I said....maybe someone else said something about being poor, I certainly didn't.

I was also quite tenuous about throwing out the suspiscion that you may have possibly been duped. It is real easy to see how someone not familiar with DVC could sit and listen to DVC sales and their.....inaccuracies???....and be convinced to purchase something that is NOT in their best interest. It has happened many times.

Remember, my first post was a compliment to VB, then a caution and ended with another glowing compliment for VB.

It is not until people start making blanket statements like "the eleven month window is meaningless" that I begin to get more ardent.

Again, if you went into this with your eyes open, congratulations, if you weren't even completely aware of everything, but now have more information and still know VB is best for you, not only cangratulatiuons, but I am glad we were able to be informative and help you feel even more comfortable with your decision.

I mean that very much.

If someone else is able to make an infomed decision after reading all these threads, that is great.....and I mean it is great wether they decide that VB is going to be best or HH or an on-property DVC resort.

I wish to do nothing but inform.....and if we can have a little fun along the way, like laughing at the dirty feet of the off-site guests, great.

I know, now there I go again, hurting the feeling of off site dirty footed guests.....I have a hard time with political correctness, you will have to excuse me.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?

[LooHoo]

Drusba,
That was just too funny! Be careful you may be called on that sarcasim. Or maybe you werent being sarcastic at all? Leaves one pondering.
Garrett,
Do not be concerned about Vero dues going up next year. You have no subsidy built in your dues are already based on the resort proportion that has been built. Dues went down this year at Vero and are only a couple pennies more than Boardwalk. Disney was originally going to build a larger resort. They tend to be an aggressive company out of the gate. It is not supersing that Vero has difficulty competing with WDW properties just from the the foot traffic that Disney has. People see it and want to buy it. Harder to get people to Vero to see it. What Disney has done is decided not build Vero currently because they are competing with themselves. Demand for DVC has increased so greatly they are trying to build to keep up in there most popular location. Not that Vero is a failed part of DVC at all and it probubally will be built eventually. Dues at Vero are a little higher than WDW and were talking pennies here is because Vero is on the ocean and the property takes more wear and tare because of that. We have to make sure our property stays in Disney condition. Vero does not sit empty and is selling very well. Disney will not step down as the management company they make a nice little profit off Vero from us. DVC was built as a network not stand alone timeshares and if one part fails it would mean the whole venture failed. ( which it has not) Feel good and try not to let he who screams the loudest make you feel worried. Some people love to stir up the crowd. Remember this board is a teeny tiny amount of DVC members.

[Galahad]

LOL Drusba! :D :D

[garrett79]

Drusba, Priceless! But yes, I agree with LooHoo, watch out for the sarcasm police. LooHoo, thanks again for the support. And I have to thank those as well who I have disagreed with because they have opened my eyes to some things. I have to make sure I dont ask the same questions twice though. Bad inquisitor!
I am looking forward to VB and looking forward to the resort. Cant wait.

[dianeschlicht]

This has been like reading two different threads at once! The original querry plus an ongoing argument. No way I would enter this one! :eek:

Disneydiane

[MN_DizNut]

So, can thoose of us who are confused, poor, and duped buy at other resorts, or do we have to buy at VB??? I was hoping to buy 200-250 pts at VWL, but figure with my ongoing confusion I need to buy 150 points at VB...???... <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused"> ;)

[PamOKW]

I hadn't read this thread until now. Very nice response LooHoo. Garrett, I think by now you realize that Rich is our resident devil's advocate and we can't take him too seriously. He does have valid points but sometimes is a little "abrasive" in how he puts them across.

(It's been a very long time since Pete has had to step in. Guess we are taking winter cabin fever out on these boards.)

[mikesmom]

I can address the problem with reservations in early November...

The Epcot Food & Wine Fest is still going on then. This makes the BWV a VERY popular place to go. We hooked 3 nites in a studio right at the beginning of the 11-month window and the CM said the rooms were going fast.

For those who are not familiar, there are dishes to sample at all the World Showcase countries. Also different beers and wines to try. There are more than the normal amount of special dinners to make ressies for .. Tasting parties from certain wineries or breweries, wine tasting dinners, etc. One of those events I feel is especially good for adults.

BWV is close to the fest AND if you get carried away with the wine-tasting, you can WALK "home"

[MN Disney fans]

I for one am glad DVC starts at 150. We bought 170 pts and just spent 8-nights in a one bedroom in off season. We could have afforded more but this seems like the right amount for us now. If we lived nearer (like someone who happens to be Rich), maybe we could come more often and would require more points. As has been said before, we can always add on.

Erich

"I just want it to look like nothing else in the world. And it should be surrounded by a train." --- Walt Disney

[normr]

If more and more people just buy the minimum of 150 points, and there was even talk of people buying less than that on resale, what does that mean, it is obvious as Rich says these people will use only weekday points and leave the weekends open, and you don't think Disney would make a move to correct this by changing the point allotments by lowering the weekends and raising the weekdays, and it forces them into booking only studios thereby creating the exact scenario Rich points out.

And without a program to help lower the cost of those $72.00 points people will only buy the minimum.

[DVC California]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If more and more people just buy the minimum of 150 points...people will use only weekday points and leave the weekends open...[/quote]

Many of us, because of different reasons, are able to visit WDW annually or more often. However, believe it or not, there are also many members who like the timeshare concept, like the Disney brand, but will do a WDW vacation EVERY OTHER year. It is exactly those people for whom DVC is marketing 150 point contracts.

While true that this may sidelap into the week/weekend points issue, IMHO it is not a major a problem. There will be those who have the points and don't want to move. Or need to use their points because they can't be banked any longer.

My two cents, Steve

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members", Groucho Marx.

[jkfreeman33]

We were in WDW the first week of December (12/2-12/9) last year. I could not believe how crowded it was. For the last 5 years we have gone either the 1st or 2nd week of December. I booked the 2nd week for 2001. Maybe it will be less crowded. I called MS on 1/16 and did not have any problem getting a 2 bedroom standard view at the BW. I did have to wait on hold about 20 min. I usually book our December trip exactly 11 months from checkout and have always gotten what we wanted.

[zipadee]

I'm very happy that dvc offers the "TINY" packages or we would never have joined. We ended up buying more points up front and then adding more. Rich, sometimes I just don't understand you. Isn't it nice that more families can afford to join and enjoy disney!!!!!!

[dianeschlicht]

We were there 12/3-12/13 this past Dec. and crowds were bad the first week due to the Pop Warner play offs at that time. The second week was much better. I would assume that the Walt Disney birthday celebration might be a little of the problem for this year.

Disneydiane http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/mickey36.gif

[jane51]

I agree with a previous post that one of the reasons Disney probably lowered the number of points to buy in was the increase in cost per point. Those of you who bought in early could purchase the required number for a whole lot less than we who have bought in now could buy that same number. What was the early cost per point? I don't know about others but my salary has not gone up like the price of these points. We didn't even look into DVC early on because we are a family of 5 and knew we would need a 2 bedroom. After looking at the prices for those for regular folks, we never thought that we could afford
DVC. Of course, now we know differently.

MinnieN

[minnie mouse]

I am one of those tiny point contract owners. And as much as I would love to have more, 150 is all I can afford right now.

And in away I would kinda like to see them even out the points more for weekends. We like to vacation off season and that means pulling my oldest daughter out of school. And since I will only pull her out for a week at the most and we like to make our vacation as long as possible we have to go for the two weekend stay. It kills us with points but I would rather do that then her miss school.
So if they even out the points more I think it would cost us less in the long run.
Just my two cents!!!

[kewlteacher]

I cannot say we were "duped" into buying at Vero, however, I was "led" to believe it really didn't matter where you bought. This, as you all know, really DOES matter. However, the "deal" they were offering for Vero helped us actually buy into DVC...and we bought more than 150 points to stay 2 weeks a year. Now, as my husband and I read these posts, we are constantly reminded that people have different opinions and without those people, this board would be incredible boring and would not give us the advantage of seeing the "other side". That is not to say that the negative opinions are warrented. I teach middle school and I tell my kids all the time..everyone has a right to their opinion as long as it is stated in a way that does not put down another. I think some adults in these boards need to be reminded of this.
Now, to get in another 2 cents...Disney (as much as we love it) is a business and must be run as such or what we have would not exist. If we keep that in mind and work with Disney (with our voices/concerns) we can make Disney aware of how we feel...hoping that changes are made in our best interest.
And to add another tibit (while I am on lunch! ;-), there are other places to stay besides BW. We bought at Vero and are splitting our vacation between Vero and BWV. When we called to reserve (BW) we had alternative plans in writing before we even knew if space was available. I think, as Disney DVC becomes much more populated, you have to have some flexibility in your plans. I do understand the people who bought at BW and can't get in at the 11 month window. However, as Disney builds more units, I think this will change. As far as we are concerned, being "anywhere" in Disney gives us the "magic" we crave! ;-)
PS...we got a standard 1 bedroom at BWV very easily in July (yeah!)

Melissa & Brian
a.k.a kewlteacherhttp://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/routemandan/njdvcplate.gif :)

[MaryAnnDVC]

Call it what you want--"duped" or whatever--but after CLEARLY stating to our guide that we are NOT flexible with our dates (we go ON Thanksgiving Day, stay offsite for 3 days, then move on-site for one week, and have done so on all previous trips), and that we ONLY want to stay at the Boardwalk, he ASSURED us that we would NOT have a problem making reservations at BWV at the 7 month window even if we bought at VB.

He also told us that 5 in a one-bedroom was fine, and to just go down to the pool to get extra towels. :rolleyes:

It sounded perfect! Here we had a Disney Guide telling us just what we wanted to hear! And we purchased...but ONLY because I knew I could come here to the DIS and do research. And we canceled VB and purchased a BWV resale...and are glad we did, because IT WAS RIGHT FOR US.

Do I think ALL guides are liars? NO! And neither does Rich. ALL SITUATIONS ARE DIFFERENT! In MY situation, I felt duped. If you have the flexibility, and/or you don't care where you stay, and/or you like Vero Beach, GREAT!!!!

Personally, the more I hear about VB, the more I'd like to go there sometime in the probably distant future. Right now, with our children at the age they're at, Disney is our focus.

I have never gotten the impression that Rich is referring to ALL guides when he has negative comments, but it appears he's been around here long enough to have heard other stories, in addition to mine, and I for one am grateful that our situation turned out the way it did...and it's because I weighed ALL the information I got here, including Rich's.

We closed on our BWV resale purchase at 9 1/2 months before we wanted a reservation, and have gotten only 2 of the 7 days we want. We are on a waitlist, and perhaps at the 7 month window, as reservations shift around, we will get our dates. Perhaps we will have to stay elsewhere on-site, and that's certainly not a crisis. BUT, I will be sure to call at exactly the 11 month window next time.

As for small contracts...both sides of the issue are food for thought, and some I find more valid than others.

Sarcasm police? Uummm...that would be...Pete? That alone sounds pretty sarcastic, doncha think?

[MN_DizNut]

Maybe it's just a guy thing, but I always believed size didn't matter as long as you were happy...???

:eek: :eek:

Jon

WDW '85 offsite
DL '85
DL '87
WDW '89 offsite
WL '97
WL '97 (again!)
WH '99
WL '99
AStSp '99 (YUCKY!!!)
DCL/Poly Jun/July '02

[mickey7861]

MN_DIZNUT

LOL ºoº :D

[Pluto4President]

I agree with dianeschlicht,"No way I would enter this one!"
Just wanted to say I like Rich and his posts are very informative. We need a little pot stirring every now and then!
As for crowds, we always make the best of it!

<img border="0" src="http://www.raynorpools.com/ftp/plutoplate.gif" width="120" height="61">

"Walt Disney World... been there, done that, GOING BACK!"

[RamVA]

I've been away from the boards for months, and when I was participating, found myself usually trying to avoid any posting that involved a debate with Rich--but, here goes, and I'm sure I'll regret this. I don't care how enlightening some of the information is--Rich's posts can be very abrasive, and very intimitdating. I'm sure no personal offense is meant, but even though the responses are "pointedly" non-person specific, and the words carefully chosen, and couched in "Clintonesque" language, much of what is said can be very easily interperted by the reader as personal and offensive, and it's a turn-off to participate in the dialogue. As for VB, I don't care why Disney built it, or if it turned out to be a mistake--I have been a member since 1992 and it hasn't impacted me at all, and most of the posts I read are from happy VB owners. It seems as if the 11-month window is important at Boardwalk, but as I have said many times here before, I have never had a problem at OKW making my reservations sometimes in a 1-month window, and we go in July or August--high peak time! Point minimums--never really thought about it too much--again it has not in one way altered my vacation experience. I probably would have been thrilled with the lower minimum when we bought in, just because as a younger couple that amount of course would have been easier to finance, and we could have added on. Didn't really want to add any fuel to the fire, but, Garret, didn't want you to feel chased away. Just my .02 ;)

Ruthie
DVC'92

[Princess Tess]

just what was the cost of points in 1993 ?

[RamVA]

Princess, if my memory serves me right, (and yes, I confess it's starting to go!)we paid $52 or $52.50 per point, and financing through Disney was interest free. So, our payment was deducted automatically, along with our dues, and the loan was paid off in 3 years. It was a deal that couldn't be beat, especially with free tickets until the year 2000. We talked to a guide over the phone, read all the info when it came in the mail, and made the decision within a week. Absolutely never a second thought, and only regret is we didn't realize as the family grew up, and we changed, we would want more points. I know both my oldest children will buy if they ever get out of the nest and have their own money!! :rolleyes:

Ruthie
DVC'92

[Dean]

Rich's message is a valid one, even if he is forcefull with it's presentation. The smaller packages will have an impact, at least for a while, though I suspect it'll even out over time. When OKW started selling, the minimum was around the number of points needed for a 2 BR at least part of the year, now it's barely a studio for most times of the year. Remember points package min has gone down but the points required for the new resort has gone up. By the time BC starts selling, 150 points will barely buy a studio during the summer time. If the affect it too great on the weekday/weekend balance, DVC must and will adjust the points. I think eventually we will see a minimum stay of 2 or 3 days, the real question is will they require Friday and Sat to go together.

While I'm sure the 150 points minimum is about making DVC affordable for more families, it's not for altruistic reasons. They just want more money from more preople. As I've stated several times on this list, I just recently entered into a contract to buy at Paradise Village in Nuevo Vallarta. It is run on a point system as well that functions very similarly to DVC. They have four seasons, unit sizes range from studios to 3 BR and two views. What they do is sell points packages that match up to a unit amount for the week. Like DVC you can bank and borrow for one year each, the weekend days are more and you can stay for as few or many days as you want (min of 3 days, Fairfield also has a minimum of 3 days). When you buy, you actually buy a 3 month priority window that corresponds to a specific unit type, size and view. For example, the contract I bought is for a 2 BR Marina view in Value time. That means that only those that own that specific unit type can make reservations in that 3 month window and you are therefore guaranteed what you own if you call during that time. BTW, they also have every other year packages but their units are not lockoff's so the smaller packages doesn't impact the number of larger unit available. Just for information and comparison purposes.

Dean