Timescales for Eagle pines+Disney Institute?

[Debs Hill]

Can anyone tell me when the points will go on sale for these two resorts? When are they scheduled to open? Any news on the 'theme'of the ones at the Institute? Any pictures of the progress at Eagle Pines yet?!
Thanks

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Debs Hill
Can anyone tell me when the points will go on sale for these two resorts? When are they scheduled to open? Any news on the 'theme'of the ones at the Institute? Any pictures of the progress at Eagle Pines yet?!
Thanks
According to the July 19, 2001, press release about the new DVC resort at Eagle Pines Golf Course (http://www.themeparks.com/wdw/press/eaglepinesdvc.htm), "Development will begin this fall with an estimated opening in spring/summer 2004." However, that announcement was made before the announcement of the new DVC resort at Downtown Disney (on the Disney Institute site). The as-yet-unnamed Downtown Disney DVC resort is also supposed to open around Spring 2004.

No, they aren't going to open at the same time.

I spoke to the DVC Guides on the 3/23/02 Disney Magic cruise. The DVC resort at the old Disney Institute (DI) site will open first, even thougn it was announced later. They don't know the theme of the DVC resort at the DI location yet. (Actually, I'm sure someone knows the theme, but it hasn't been announced yet.) The Eagle Pines DVC location is on hold for the time being, and there's not a new date for opening -- but there's no reason to believe the Eagle Pines project is dead.

Here's my interpretation: With the post-9/11 shutdown of most of the Villas at DI Resort, Disney Vacation Development (DVD) was presented with the opportunity to build a new DVC resort at a lower cost (by leveraging some existing DI facilities) at a better location (at least for people who like being close to Downtown Disney) -- and at the same time to start to erase the failed DI. The announcment called for new residential DVC buildings, so this should be a high quality development, not a cheap re-do of old DI townhouses.

It looks to me that DVD spent years of methodical planning on the Eagle Pines project. When DVD issued the press release, they provided two beautiful artists' renderings and a detailed description of the theme:
From the July 19, 2001, press release
The theme of the proposed DVC resort will complement and enhance the beautiful setting found at Disney’s Eagle Pines golf course. The new resort will be inspired by the architecture of Addison Mizner, a celebrated early 20th century architect who led the renaissance of Florida resort design. The property’s design will reflect a variety of motifs found in indigenous Florida buildings of this era, including Spanish, Moorish, Romanesque and Gothic forms. The atmosphere and elegance found in the coastal communities of southeast Florida (including West Palm Beach and Boca Raton) will be found in the resort’s architecture, ranging from tile roofs to fountains to lush, tropical landscaping.
In contrast, the Disney Institute / Downtown Disney DVC announcement appears to have been made hastily.

[Dean]

There have been all type of rumors about EPV. Some had it on permanent hold, others had it opening in 2005. The guides seem pretty certain that it's still on for whatever that's worth. They many times aren't told things like this and I suspect DVC themselves hasn't even decided for certain. If the opening has been tentatively pushed back, they have about a year to decide what to. One of the decisions will be whether to have the expiration as later than 2042 though that one could actually go down to about 4-6 months before sales begin. Even if it were to open in 2042, that's still a consideration. If DVC decides not to have a later ending date, then I think the EPV project is in great jeopardy of not happening or at least being scaled back significantly.

[larry_poppins]

My guess is that Eagle Pines is on hold for the time being. If the Disney Institute Villas sell poorly, the wait for Eagle Pines may be a long one. However, if Disney Institute Villas is a good seller, DVC may expand the Disney Institute Villas and we may still have to wait for Eagle Pines to come online.

Just my thought on the subject.

Larry

[Tinkrbell]

My guess is that Disney Institute Villas are going to have some Mighty Big shoes to fill. After following BWV, VWL, and BCV all with excellent locations, DIV had better be one heck of a resort.

[fkj2]

I think the proposed DVC at Downtown Disney may become more desirable than many might think. While many love the activity of the Boardwalk area and the BWV are wildly popular, BCV seems to me a hotel stuck in a parking lot. Of course, I reserve the right to change that opinion once I visit.

While not immediately adjacent to the parks, a DVC at Downtown Disney would be soooooo convenient to shopping and recreational activities like the sprites. And, the nightlife is just a boat ride away. I look forward to it.

[chris1gill]

I don't know, I don't think there is any way that DIV can possibly fill the shoes of BW, VWL or BCV... Whatever theme they do, that property has a history that has not proven worthwhile IMHO (and apparently Disney's as well since it's changing yet again) & I think that fact won't be lost on buyers too soon, I really hope that I am WRONG... In contrast, EPV was to be built at what looked to be a very deluxe level, thought and care went into it's planning and the renderings are beautiful... I hope EPV is still on & I hope I'm wrong about DIV...

[Dean]

I don't think there's any question that DI and EP will need some type of "gimmick" to sell consistently. They could do a golf deal and the GV option will certainly be a selling point. The trouble is that even at $80 pp (or the equivalent adjusted for inflation), there isn't a big draw on site for either of these resorts. For BW, it's the Boardwalk itself, a pretty doggone nice pool, closeness to Epcot and the like. For WLV it's the lodge itself and closeness to MK. For BC, same as BW plus SAB and the fact that YC/BC have their own following as well.

I actually see EP as an easier sell than DI if they were the same size resort and both ended at the same time (?2042). I don't see DD as that big of a draw overall. I guess the spa and activities could be configured to entice some. What could they do at the resorts to make them as enticing as BCV and WLV? Since I don't see them lowering price or points costs much or at all or doing free tickets again, what else could we realistically think of. Larger units, GV, double lock off's, sleep 6 1BR/2BA, Golf packages, extending the length of expiration, Golf cart rentals like at FW, more activities, movie theater, more developed common areas/recreation areas, a major themed pool area, and reopen the restaurant; are the ones that come to mind first.

Of course they could make changes to the overall program that would entice new members as well like improving the reasonableness of the non DVC exchanges in a number of ways. They could make arrangements with some of the other points systems out there for direct exchanges like those in the BVTC now. Reduce the points for exchange to CC, DLC, DC and the like. Of course these type of changes would benefit all and potentially cost all of us.

[Grotto]

It seems to me that many people underestimate the benefit of being within walking distance to DD. Especially during the off season, when 3 of the 4 parks are closed by 7pm. There are not many other activities available at night during these times. I think the VDI will be quite popular.

[Dean]

Originally posted by Grotto
It seems to me that many people underestimate the benefit of being within walking distance to DD. Especially during the off season, when 3 of the 4 parks are closed by 7pm. There are not many other activities available at night during these times. I think the VDI will be quite popular. Grotto, I see it as one of those minor benefits one will enjoy if they have it but won't make a reservation based on it. I just can't see a person calling to make reservations thinking, I've got to stay at DI so I can walk to DD. DVD isn't made up of Dummies so I'm sure they'll come up with an angle that will work. If they are not overall successful and the initial interest is less than hoped, that puts EP in real jeopardy, IMO.

[llp479]

Our guide told us VWL sold out 10 months earlier than DVD had expected. Given that, I think they looked at how quickly BCV may possibly sell out, and figured they may get caught with nothing to sell waiting for EP. DI already had a "main building" so to speak, so all they needed to build were the rooms, while at EP they needed to build both. Much of the infrastructure was already present at DI while they will be starting from scratch at EP.

Also, other than the deluxe resorts, none of the other on-site properties are near the parks. Many of us who joined DVC are used to staying in the moderates, so not being "near the parks" may not be a consideration for people who enjoy WDW. Being able to buy into DVC may be the larger incentive.

[PKS44]

I don't know how they could tie it into the DI spa/resort facilities, but I think a Downtown Disney Villas Resort built in the style of Miami's South Beach Art Deco hotels with Art Deco interiors, boat transports to DD and access to the spa, etc would be very appealing and different from all the other resorts on site. They have already said that they units at both EP and DDV will be the same size as the more recent Villas, not larger.

Paul

[Debs Hill]

I've heard that some of the current acommodtion at DI is pretty dated and in need of some TLC......will Disney keep any of the current buildings and just redo the inside(like the tree houses) or will they start again? I was thinking that if they are having to work with the current buildings it will limit what sort of 'theme' the resort will have.

I think it woudl be nice to be so close to DD, but I would rather be further away and in a nicer resort if it's not up to scratch. The appeal of EP was how well thought out and luxurious it looked!

[fkj2]

The concept photos of Eagle Pines look great and I think it could/will be a great seller. As far as the villas at Disney Institute, as I already said, I think the area can be a draw, especially for people who may go to vacation and NOT attend the parks.

We've already had posters who stated they would go only to vacation at the DVC and leave the parks to other guests. As the demographics of the population change (rapidly) more people may come to share that philosophy. Having a great spa and relaxing atmosphere, great shopping and the OPTION of night life nearby will be very appealing to some people. Plus, a lot of those hotels at Lake Buena Vista hold conventions and that may attract guests to a DVC there as well. Personally, I've recently looked at seminars scheduled at hotels there and the Contemporary, knowing that I would be staying at OKW on points but attending the meetings. Certainly decreases the cost of continuing education.

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Debs Hill
I've heard that some of the current acommodtion at DI is pretty dated and in need of some TLC......will Disney keep any of the current buildings and just redo the inside(like the tree houses) or will they start again? I was thinking that if they are having to work with the current buildings it will limit what sort of 'theme' the resort will have.
It's true that current Villas at Disney Institute are up to 30 years old. The plans call for the existing structures to be cleared on a 16-acre site to allow construction of 192 brand new DVC units in four new buildings. The 16-acre site is only a small part of the Disney Institute property. This site is the part of the old Villas at Disney Institute that you see from Downtown Disney, so the views toward Downtown Disney from the new DVC resort should be great.

I doubt that the Disney Institute name will be used for the new DVC resort. And I don't think there will be any stigma from being on a site that was formerly part of the old Villas at Disney Institute.

In addition to the the old Villas, the Disney Institute has a newer, more attractive area. The non-residential Institute buildings were designed by noted architect Thomas Beeby, dean of the Yale School of Architecture from 1986 to 1991. These buildings continue to be used for Disney Institute programs, as well for the Spa at Disney Institute. This area is likely to become the "town center" serving the new DVC resort. It's not part of the 16-acre site where the existing structures are being removed.

By the way, the press release had a sentence, "Initial plans call for the construction of four residential-style buildings with studio, one- and two-bedroom villas and Grand Villa units that sleep up to 12 guests." Note that I've highlighted "Initial plans." This makes it seem that the first four buildings are just the first phase, and that DVD is leaving the door open to additional phases. This raises the possibility that DVD may continue to develop portions of the Disney Institute property for many years to come, thereby delaying the Eagle Pines location for a long, long time.

[Dave M]

While at the Lake Buene Vista Golf Club on 4/29 the person at the counter told us that the DI was to become part of Old Key West and it would take about 3 years to make all of the changes and updates. This could make OKW a total resort with both Cash and member guest much like both WL and BC.:)

[Dean]

Originally posted by Dave M
While at the Lake Buene Vista Golf Club on 4/29 the person at the counter told us that the DI was to become part of Old Key West and it would take about 3 years to make all of the changes and updates. This could make OKW a total resort with both Cash and member guest much like both WL and BC.:) I'm sure that's what wassaid but it really makes no sense. I'm sure it'll be a totally separate resort in the DVC system.

[CaptainMidnight]

Werner,
Thanks for sharing the information, excellent post.

[Horace Horsecollar]

Any guesses when they'll release details about the DD/DI DVC resort, such as artist's renderings and a description of the theme and features?

[Tinkrbell]

IMHO I actually think that would make sense. The resorts are right next to each other, and they could just connect them together by way of making a path like the POR and DLR.

This way they could make a better pool for those at OKW,along with other additions that people would like at that resort. Also like Dave M said, both a cash and points system.

[Dean]

While I see the thinking, I don't think this would work at all for a number of reasons. They couldn't just incorporate the entire DI resort into OKW, even at BW, the BWI and BWV are technicallys separate sharing and paying for common amenities. Also, the portion of DI that will be a timeshare is about as far away as it could possibly be. Legally, I don't think they could add the resorts together either. From an OKW owner standpoint, no way I'd want to be responsible for the older buildings at DI. OKW is spread out enough without adding another mile or so to a portion of it.

[Werner Weiss]

I agree with Dean. It's extremely unlikely that a 16-acre site a half mile from OKW will somehow become part of OKW. And it's even more unlikely that the entire DI property will somehow be incorporated into OKW.

OKW is a completed, sold out timeshare resort. Regarding the comment, "This way they could make a better pool for those at OKW, along with other additions that people would like at that resort," The Walt Disney Company has no business motivation to provide a new pool or other major capital improvements to OKW. The overwhelming majority of OKW is owned by OKW DVC members until 2042 -- and until 2042, those members are responsible for any capital improvements, operating expenses, and reserve funds for major repair work.

What is expected is that the new DVC resort will leverage the existing Disney Institute core buildings, including the Spa, the former Seasons restaurant space (which could once again become a restaurant), the check-in facility, and the other structures (some of which could continue to be used for the corporate training programs that DI still offers). It wouldn't make sense for these buildings to be declared part of OKW. If you're not familar with these Thomas Beeby-designed buildings, see http://www.themeparks.com/wdwlibrary/institute/institute02.htm

[JonHM]

of what would be appealing about a new DVC resort at DI, YES we know that the room *size* will be the same as VWL and BCV, *BUT* consider the possibility that the points per night may be considerably less than the theme park resorts, much like OKW. The combination of DTD atmosphere and views with substantial points savings over BWV, VWL and BCV, IMO may well be enough to draw people in. (Depending, of course, on what kind of job they do with the overall theming)

:bounce: :bounce:

[Horace Horsecollar]

My prediction: At the new DD/DI DVC location, the room size and points per night will be the same as, or at least very similar to, BWV-preferred, VWL, and BCV.

The justification will be the great views (unlike VWL and BCV), the great location (dining, shopping and entertainment choices offered by Downtown Disney), and the proximity to one of WDW's two major spas.

DVD has used the same point structure at three resorts in a row, and I have no reason to believe that this structure will change.

[JonHM]

I see what you see, but they WERE three *theme park* resorts in a row. Also, at least half of the villas wouldn't have the great views, right? Wouldn't you think they would at least have a lower 'standard view' option?

[Dave M]

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. Disney has done many strange things in the last few years.:)

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by JonHM
I see what you see, but they WERE three *theme park* resorts in a row. Also, at least half of the villas wouldn't have the great views, right? Wouldn't you think they would at least have a lower 'standard view' option?
When VWL opened, there were people on this board arguing that VWL should have a lower point structure then BWV-preferred because VWL doesn't have views, you can't walk to a theme park, and the location is isolated. But VWL had the same BWV-preferred point structure anyway.

There's no reason to assume that, "at least half of the villas wouldn't have the great views." My assumption is that the new resort will not have interior hallways. Instead, as at OKW, the doors will be on the parking lot side and all units will have view of Downtown Disney. Of course, some views would be somewhat better than others, but there's no reason to assume that half the units will have parking lot views.

Marriott often builds Vacation Clubs with doors on one side and views toward the other. See the floor plan for Marriott's Villas at Doral at http://www.vacationclub.com/sales/rd/da/villa.asp where all units are supposed to have good views.

I don't think DVD/DVC wants to get into the awkward business of having separate point structures for standard and preferred views. I think they learned their lesson at BWV. They didn't repeat this mistake at VWL and BCV.

[downontheBW]

I guess we are some of the unusual DVCers that will love (I hope) the DI location and I'd expect it will become our resort of choice. When we vacation at WDW, we spend 15%-20% of our time at the parks - and when we do, it's for the day. So, while it is great to be able to walk to a park, I'd rather be able to walk to DD. We go there every day either for shopping, dinner or to go to PI.

We used to spend most of our time at the parks. Now we don't have the kids with us, but this routine may be temporary, once our kids are out of college and they have their own families and we can do extended family vacations.

We love the theming at the resorts we've stayed at: BWV, VWL and OKW. I hope that DI doesn't disappoint. I strongly agree with the Art Deco idea; I feel that would be a logical choice. Since it's a more urban location, I wonder if they've considered a European theme, like London or Paris. It's fun to speculate. I, too, expect that they won't mess with the point structure that they've settled on with VWL and BCV.

[caverill]

I have to agree that DI might be an interesting location. OKW was not next to anything when it was built.

Now I just can't let my DW know she can be closer to World of Disney. I sure hope they have some kind of package transportation :).

As far a the points go, it may be the first time the points go down due to its location and the length of time left until 2042. Only time will tell.

[Peter Johnson]

I think it would be neat to stay in a DIV one-bedroom treehouse :)

[Jen D]

Just need a clarification on Eagle Pines, I found the description a little confusing-- is it entirely Villa units, or is there also an "Inn" section that will be a deluxe?

I agree that a great enticement for DI would be an OKW-like pricing structure; but I think the higher structure is probably here to stay.

[yesdisneyfool]

Originally posted by caverill
Now I just can't let my DW know she can be closer to World of Disney. I sure hope they have some kind of package transportation :).


We love the quaitness of OKW and we always spend a good deal of the evenings in DD. So DIV may be our next addon and with Just a Hop, Skip and a Jump closer to DD, DW will be doing flips.

[PamOKW]

is it entirely Villa units, or is there also an "Inn" section that will be a deluxe?

The original plans presented did include a luxury hotel and restaurants (and I think a spa) in addition to the villa units.

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Jen D
Just need a clarification on Eagle Pines, I found the description a little confusing-- is it entirely Villa units, or is there also an "Inn" section that will be a deluxe?
The way that I read the July 19, 2001 press release (http://www.themeparks.com/wdw/press/eaglepinesdvc.htm), "Disney Vacation Club Announces Plans For Largest Ownership Resort to Date at Walt Disney World Resort," the resort at Disney's Eagle Pines golf course will be strictly a DVC ownership resort -- like OKW or HH. Eventually there will be 600 units, making it even larger than OKW. Unlike BWV, VWL, or BCV, there will not be an adjoining deluxe resort hotel.

The idea that there will also be a deluxe resort hotel may come from the lines in the press release about an "Inn building" being part of the resort. But please read this quotation from the press release:
<DL><DD>"Initial plans call for the construction of a main Inn building encompassing a check-in area; accommodations; restaurant/lounge; theme pool with feature slide; retail space; arcade; common living room area and a health club, as well as Villa buildings containing vacation home accommodations."</DD></DL>
In other words, the Inn building is where guests will check in, dine, swim, excercise, shop, play, visit, and exercise. And the Inn building will also contain some accomodations, with more accommodations in separate villa buildings -- this would be similar to Disney's Hilton Head and similar to Marriott ownership resorts such as Grande Vista and Newport Coast Villas.

There is absolutely no mention of a deluxe resort hotel.

Also, the announcement didn't call for a spa, just an excercise room. However, given how large the resort will be, I imagine the excercise room will be large and impressive, with many spa services.

Of course, as the first page of this thread indicates, the DVC resort at Eagle Pines is on hold, so the plans could change before construction ever begins. After all, DVD will learn lessons from BCV and the DVC resort at Downtown Disney. And the timeshare business continues to evolve.

[PamOKW]

I guess I should clarify what my understanding is. I do think the plans call for an Inn which would be on the scale of a luxury hotel but unlike the BWI it will also be part of the DVC structure. I would expect it to be like Vero where members have a choice of accomodations.

[Debs Hill]

I agree! I really like the idea of a treehouse.....obviously refurbished and jazzed up for us DVCers! I'm really concerned that DI won't have a theme as such and that they'll use the spa as the main draw and expect it to be more of an 'adult' resort. Maybe a 'European Spa resort' theme? There was once talk of them building a mediterrainean hotel near the GF, so maybe they'll use that idea and it will rival Pontifino Bay? Just specualting!

I think the points will be exactly the same as VWL and BC!