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Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 08:01 PM
Hey.
I thought of an idea that should be really fun (if youre interested).

Lets take a poll.

McCain or Obama to win this years election?*

I was wondering if this could be stickied until after the election, so we can see if the majority of us were right.

You dont have to give a reason to why you choose them, just vote. You can make comments about it too.

Please no arguing, i just want this to be a silly little poll.



-
Mouse

* I would have done third parties, but usually its either a democrat or a republican.

3mtn-kate
10-15-2008, 08:03 PM
obama

i just can't stand sarah palin

wooty813
10-15-2008, 08:05 PM
I picked obama

PosessedEeyore
10-15-2008, 08:05 PM
McCain. :D

K-Shong99
10-15-2008, 08:07 PM
mccain, fosho.
obama peeves me off.

GoofysOnlyGirl
10-15-2008, 08:08 PM
I picked Obama mainly because I HATE Palin. Everything about her just rubs me the wrong way.

I was actually for McCain before that though. I also am not to happy with either one of the candidates. I think our country has been going downhill for a long time and we really need someone who can pick us up. I don't think either one of these candidates can provide that. Then again the economy is horrible right now, and there isn't much anyone can do. :sad2:

OneTreeHill
10-15-2008, 08:09 PM
I honestly don't know yet.


Obama scares the crap out of me. But, I don't like McCain much either.

pitt02
10-15-2008, 08:10 PM
McCain

wooty813
10-15-2008, 08:10 PM
I don't like either of them but I just picked obama. lol

GoofysOnlyGirl
10-15-2008, 08:12 PM
I forgot to add: I wish Hilary won in the primary's.

I also wish I could vote this year. I am one year to young. Not cool.

keegro94
10-15-2008, 08:12 PM
Obama

K-Shong99
10-15-2008, 08:15 PM
I honestly don't know yet.


Obama scares the crap out of me. But, I don't like McCain much either.

totally agree.
but mccain is the lesser of the two evils if you ask me.
but that's just my opinion.

plus, i LOVE sarah palin.
i just agree with a lot of what she says.

imabrat
10-15-2008, 08:16 PM
Obama. I know that I'm young, but I agree with Obama's view points. I believe in gay marriage, I believe in regulating health care, and I believe in legalizing the illegal immigrants if they want, if not they're deported.

I, personally, wish Hillary had won the nomination. I do not like Sarah Palin at all, I think she's full of small-minded comments. JMO.

OneTreeHill
10-15-2008, 08:18 PM
totally agree.
but mccain is the lesser of the two evils if you ask me.
but that's just my opinion.

plus, i LOVE sarah palin.
i just agree with a lot of what she says.


Yeah, I think that of the two, McCain's better.
But I DON'T like Palin one bit.

K-Shong99
10-15-2008, 08:22 PM
Obama. I know that I'm young, but I agree with Obama's view points. I believe in gay marriage, I believe in regulating health care, and I believe in legalizing the illegal immigrants if they want, if not they're deported.

I, personally, wish Hillary had won the nomination. I do not like Sarah Palin at all, I think she's full of small-minded comments. JMO.

i know i'm prabably gonna start an arguement with this, but whatever.

i don't see palin as "small-minded" at all.
she is a christian.
she believes in god.
that is not being small-minded.
if she doesn't believe in gay marriage and abortion and all that, it is because of her religion.
there is nothing small-minded about being a christian [which i am and i guess that's why it offends me].

sorry for causing a fuss.
XD

::Snow_White::
10-15-2008, 08:27 PM
I think Obama will win.

seaturtledude
10-15-2008, 08:29 PM
obama. i'm sorry, i cannot stand mccain and sarah palin. i'm completely anti-war;pro-choice;and pro gay-marriage.

Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 08:34 PM
Obama. I know that I'm young, but I agree with Obama's view points. I believe in gay marriage, I believe in regulating health care, and I believe in legalizing the illegal immigrants if they want, if not they're deported.

I, personally, wish Hillary had won the nomination. I do not like Sarah Palin at all, I think she's full of small-minded comments. JMO.

The young comment actually doesnt mean anything, most young people actually are democrat.


Uhm....Biden doesn't believe in gay marriage.
He believes in like..a ceremonial commitment, but as the term "marriage" he does not, but as for Obama, im not quite sure, i would assume that he would.

Not trying to start an argument at all, but there IS proof of that (not a scandle either, it was in the palin/biden debate).

ears4all!
10-15-2008, 08:34 PM
Is this who you think will win or who you want to win?

PosessedEeyore
10-15-2008, 08:36 PM
Is this who you think will win or who you want to win?

who you want to win. :D

ears4all!
10-15-2008, 08:40 PM
Okay for me, I want McCain to win. Something about Obama rubs me in the wrong way. I love that he picked Sarah Palin, for she hasn't been in DC, so she hasn't been changed.

GoofysOnlyGirl
10-15-2008, 08:40 PM
The young comment actually doesnt mean anything, most young people actually are democrat.


Uhm....Biden doesn't believe in gay marriage.
He believes in like..a ceremonial commitment, but as the term "marriage" he does not, but as for Obama, im not quite sure, i would assume that he would.

Not trying to start an argument at all, but there IS proof of that (not a scandle either, it was in the palin/biden debate).

Yeah, I am pretty sure Obama isn't for "marraige" but for the whole commitent thing, which is marraige without calling it that. I am not 100% sure on that one though. & it all has to do with the definition of marraige.

From Dictionary.com: the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.


So technically, under the definition it is now, gay marraige is kind of contradictory....I am all for them being "married" and sharing rights and all that. I just don't think it can be called marraige.

imabrat
10-15-2008, 08:50 PM
i know i'm prabably gonna start an arguement with this, but whatever.

i don't see palin as "small-minded" at all.
she is a christian.
she believes in god.
that is not being small-minded.
if she doesn't believe in gay marriage and abortion and all that, it is because of her religion.
there is nothing small-minded about being a christian [which i am and i guess that's why it offends me].

sorry for causing a fuss.
XD

But you're also assuming I say small-minded because of her religion, and I'm not. I'm talking about other matters. Did you see her interview with Katie Couric where she couldn't tell about foreign policies? That's what I'm referring to as small-minded.

imabrat
10-15-2008, 08:54 PM
The young comment actually doesnt mean anything, most young people actually are democrat.


Uhm....Biden doesn't believe in gay marriage.
He believes in like..a ceremonial commitment, but as the term "marriage" he does not, but as for Obama, im not quite sure, i would assume that he would.

Not trying to start an argument at all, but there IS proof of that (not a scandle either, it was in the palin/biden debate).

Actually, yes age does factor it. Have you noticed many young people say vote for Obama with no reasons behind it? I'm trying to state that I may be young and Pro-Obama, but that's because we share view points, not "just because he's cooler".

HouseMD1120
10-15-2008, 09:05 PM
Im scared of Obama. I definately want McCain to win.

Tinkerbell424
10-15-2008, 09:08 PM
i know i'm prabably gonna start an arguement with this, but whatever.

i don't see palin as "small-minded" at all.
she is a christian.
she believes in god.
that is not being small-minded.
if she doesn't believe in gay marriage and abortion and all that, it is because of her religion.
there is nothing small-minded about being a christian [which i am and i guess that's why it offends me].

sorry for causing a fuss.
XD


Religion should be kept out of politics, IMO.
Not everyone follows christianity, so I don't believe we should be led with religion in mind.

I picked Obama, btw.

tinkerbell12
10-15-2008, 09:14 PM
Mm... McCain made a good choice to pick Palin.
More democrats.
It scares most people away.

She scares me. She's, IMO, very unfit to be the second in command for this country.
I'm moving to Canada if she's in office.

Disney.Ears
10-15-2008, 09:26 PM
McCain/Palin.
I'm anti-gay marriage and pro-life just to add.

I don't like either of them but I just picked obama. lol

So you just picked him for the hell of it?

Actually, yes age does factor it. Have you noticed many young people say vote for Obama with no reasons behind it? I'm trying to state that I may be young and Pro-Obama, but that's because we share view points, not "just because he's cooler".

I hate when people use that as their reason. It's completely rediculous IMO.

Miss_Taylor
10-15-2008, 09:35 PM
I think that Obama is going to win

GoofysOnlyGirl
10-15-2008, 09:36 PM
McCain/Palin.
I'm anti-gay marriage and pro-life just to add.



So you just picked him for the hell of it?



I hate when people use that as their reason. It's completely rediculous IMO.

Its true though. Honestly 90% of the people at my school are voting for Obama. Ask any of them whats happening at the debates and this will be there response :confused: . There is a group of them making shirts for obama based on something from family guy. They say stuff like "Vote for Obama, at least he can raise his hands above his head." So yes, having her justify she is young and actually had an opinion is valid seeing how most young people[under 18...] act today.

lpe_bratz
10-15-2008, 09:39 PM
obama.

too bad i can't vote for 4 years..but i'll be voting for the next election! my birthday's like 2 months before election. :goodvibes

Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 09:40 PM
Actually, yes age does factor it. Have you noticed many young people say vote for Obama with no reasons behind it? I'm trying to state that I may be young and Pro-Obama, but that's because we share view points, not "just because he's cooler".

Hes the hipper vote, i know TONS of people who want him because hes "black", yet if you asked the difference between the 2, they would give you these false rumors.

People told me about how McCain thinks that women should be sold as property. Im sorry but thats a load of horse turd and is not true, and then they say "YES IT IS, HE DOES" its not. Listen to how ridiculous that sounds, yes hes "old" but hes not THAT old. :rolleyes:

I am super republican.

We took these test things in school, and i was the ONLY person to score republican, and it was a test where you couldn't tell the difference and it wasn't obvious that "a = r and b = d" it was pretty stressful, but out of 11 questions.

i answered 9 of them with republican choice
and 2 of democrat.

We practically had an entire lesson on how democrats usually always get the younger vote, wile republicans are for the "old-farts", i guess im one at heart.

Im not saying that I love Bush, not at ALL, im just for the republican beliefs somehow, which was actually quite funny, because ive been for McCain since the beginning.

Even though *personally* i think we are gonna be screwed either way we go.

soccercruiser87
10-15-2008, 09:41 PM
Its true though. Honestly 90% of the people at my school are voting for Obama. Ask any of them whats happening at the debates and this will be there response :confused: . There is a group of them making shirts for obama based on something from family guy. They say stuff like "Vote for Obama, at least he can raise his hands above his head." So yes, having her justify she is young and actually had an opinion is valid seeing how most young people[under 18...] act today.

McCain can't raise his hands above his head because he was violently tortured and was in a lot of pain when he was a POW. "Vote for Obama, at least he can raise his hands above his head" is a rude and immature thing to say. If they knew what he went through when he was a POW they would know why he can't raise his hands above his head.

Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 09:44 PM
McCain can't raise his hands above his head because he was violently tortured and was in a lot of pain when he was a POW. "Vote for Obama, at least he can raise his hands above his head" is a rude and immature thing to say. If they knew what he went through when he was a POW they would know why he can't raise his hands above his head.

Seriously.
Its not cool.
Thats rude and VERY immature. :mad:

I dont think people take into account "oh big deal prisoner of war..ooh"..and...that really ticks me off.

Tinkerbell424
10-15-2008, 09:53 PM
Seriously.
Its not cool.
Thats rude and VERY immature. :mad:

I dont think people take into account "oh big deal prisoner of war..ooh"..and...that really ticks me off.

McCain mentioned those shirts in the debate tonight...

Wow..some people are just... :headache: :eek:

GoofysOnlyGirl
10-15-2008, 09:53 PM
McCain can't raise his hands above his head because he was violently tortured and was in a lot of pain when he was a POW. "Vote for Obama, at least he can raise his hands above his head" is a rude and immature thing to say. If they knew what he went through when he was a POW they would know why he can't raise his hands above his head.

I know this. I was explaining how she was right to have to justify herself, and her age seeing how most of the people are age do act like this. These are some of the people actually VOTING for obama too, which is sad.

Disney.Ears
10-15-2008, 09:56 PM
People making those shirts are freaking...ugh people are so frustrating these days.

ETA: And it pisses me off at how racist Michelle Obama is. Like seriously, she wasn't liked in college because of that.

seaturtledude
10-15-2008, 10:06 PM
i respect mccain for being a pow, but that doesn't necessarily make him qualified to run the country. i'm saying this because in my history class today, about 3/4 of my class was using that as a reason of why he is qualified.

valeriesunshine
10-15-2008, 10:11 PM
"Im qualified because I was in the PTA!"

enough said.

Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 10:13 PM
"Im qualified because I was in the PTA!"

enough said.

HEY.:mad:
Those PTA meetings can be vicious .......
























:lmao:

ears4all!
10-15-2008, 10:14 PM
I thought the Debate went well

Sparx
10-15-2008, 10:22 PM
i voted obama. let me show you why.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1398/542389855_811a187e7b.jpg

i was pro-mccain.

was.

:rolleyes:

seaturtledude
10-15-2008, 10:22 PM
"Im qualified because I was in the PTA!"

enough said.

:rotfl:

Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 10:26 PM
i voted obama. let me show you why.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1398/542389855_811a187e7b.jpg

i was pro-mccain.

was.

:rolleyes:

I love how shes wearing her own button..kinda like its a name tag, as if you didn't already know of that "maverick" ;)

soccercruiser87
10-15-2008, 10:26 PM
i respect mccain for being a pow, but that doesn't necessarily make him qualified to run the country. i'm saying this because in my history class today, about 3/4 of my class was using that as a reason of why he is qualified.

and Obama is qualified to run the country? McCain is more qualified/experienced than Obama.

Sparx
10-15-2008, 10:26 PM
i know i'm prabably gonna start an arguement with this, but whatever.

i don't see palin as "small-minded" at all.
she is a christian.
she believes in god.
that is not being small-minded.
if she doesn't believe in gay marriage and abortion and all that, it is because of her religion.
there is nothing small-minded about being a christian [which i am and i guess that's why it offends me].

sorry for causing a fuss.
XD
being a christian is not small minded.

abusing her power as governor is small minded.

thinking she is qualified to run the country after two years of badly running the smallest (populace wise) state in the country is small minded.

not knowing what the bush docterine is, yet running for a position that could put her as the leader of the free world is small minded.

saying that humans and dinosaurs lived together 4 thousand years ago is small minded.

saying that she refuses to answer questions because she simply does not now the answer is small minded.

not being able to put aside her own beliefs to see what is better for the country as a whole is small minded.

but being a christian is not small minded.

Sparx
10-15-2008, 10:27 PM
I love how shes wearing her own button..kinda like its a name tag, as if you didn't already know of that "maverick" ;)
"you betcha.";)

MuskratSusie
10-15-2008, 10:29 PM
McCain

Nuff' said.

Ms.Squeakers
10-15-2008, 10:29 PM
and Obama is qualified to run the country? McCain is more qualified/experienced than Obama.

Oh!
If youre a moderator can you sticky things?
I would like to know if this could be stickied until the end of the election.

Just wondering.
I dont want it to die, i want to compare it to the election itself after the election is done and see what the results are.

If it shouldn't be, i understand completely.

Tinkerbell424
10-15-2008, 10:30 PM
and Obama is qualified to run the country? McCain is more qualified/experienced than Obama.

Both are qualified to run the country.
McCain may have more experience, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has the best intentions for our country. IMO.

soccercruiser87
10-15-2008, 10:32 PM
Oh!
If youre a moderator can you sticky things?
I would like to know if this could be stickied until the end of the election.

Just wondering.
I dont want it to die, i want to compare it to the election itself after the election is done and see what the results are.

If it shouldn't be, i understand completely.

A thread like this isn't really something that should be stickied. This thread will probably not die, but if it does, all you have to do is type in the title in the search and you will find it.

soccercruiser87
10-15-2008, 10:34 PM
Both are qualified to run the country.
McCain may have more experience, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has the best intentions for our country. IMO.

and it doesn't mean that Obama has the best intentions for the country either. It can go both ways. Republican vs. Democrats, someone will say jump, other person will say how high, just like hot and cold, etc. Different opinions, thats all.

Tinkerbell424
10-15-2008, 10:40 PM
and it doesn't mean that Obama has the best intentions for the country either. It can go both ways. Republican vs. Democrats, someone will say jump, other person will say how high, just like hot and cold, etc. Different opinions, thats all.

I agree. But both are qualified for the title of Presidency. Just all a matter of opinions.

I have respect for the both of them. I'm personally rooting for Obama, though. McCain does have some good ideas though.

JulielovesDisney
10-15-2008, 10:44 PM
I think Obama is gonna win it. I hope he does too.

I'm a Divaaaaa
10-15-2008, 11:00 PM
Obama is getting my vote this year and I believe he is going to take the presidency.


I just don't know how anyone can defend Sarah Palin. She is a joke.

PurpleDucky
10-15-2008, 11:11 PM
Religion should be kept out of politics, IMO.
Not everyone follows christianity, so I don't believe we should be led with religion in mind.

I picked Obama, btw.

Religion played a factor in the building of America..so how can it be kept out?

Zip-A-Dee-Lady
10-16-2008, 12:11 AM
I actually do keep up with American politics.
Religion should be kept out because of the separation of church and state.
McCain and Obama are both qualified to run the country; I don't believe experience has anything to do with it.
I think that whomever has the best intentions for the country has everything to do with it.

Cassidy
10-16-2008, 12:12 AM
I really don't know.
I mean, I should pick McCain because he is republic, but I just think Obama has much more to offer.

I really just can't decide, but I chose McCain.

Zip-A-Dee-Lady
10-16-2008, 12:14 AM
I really don't know.
I mean, I should pick McCain because he is republic, but I just think Obama has much more to offer.

I really just can't decide, but I chose McCain.

huh?

Columba
10-16-2008, 12:18 AM
I really don't know.
I mean, I should pick McCain because he is republic, but I just think Obama has much more to offer.

I really just can't decide, but I chose McCain.

Hmm...

Columba
10-16-2008, 12:19 AM
Obama

Disney.Ears
10-16-2008, 05:46 AM
i respect mccain for being a pow, but that doesn't necessarily make him qualified to run the country. i'm saying this because in my history class today, about 3/4 of my class was using that as a reason of why he is qualified.

Being a POW doesn't make him qualified, it just shows something to add to the list of great things done for our country by him. But in the long run, McCain is WAY more qualified than Obama.

Em&Em
10-16-2008, 06:27 AM
I would vote for Obama because he seems to be more for the middle class American.

HouseMD1120
10-16-2008, 08:28 AM
Being a POW doesn't make him qualified, it just shows something to add to the list of great things done for our country by him. But in the long run, McCain is WAY more qualified than Obama.

::yes::

Ppufi
10-16-2008, 08:36 AM
i know i'm prabably gonna start an arguement with this, but whatever.

i don't see palin as "small-minded" at all.
she is a christian.
she believes in god.
that is not being small-minded.
if she doesn't believe in gay marriage and abortion and all that, it is because of her religion.
there is nothing small-minded about being a christian [which i am and i guess that's why it offends me].

sorry for causing a fuss.
XD

I think she's small-minded because she believe's it's Christianity or the highway.

HouseMD1120
10-16-2008, 09:22 AM
I think she's small-minded because she believe's it's Christianity or the highway.

Then I guess I'm "small-minded." As are most of my friends and family.

PurpleDucky
10-16-2008, 09:26 AM
I think she's small-minded because she believe's it's Christianity or the highway.

Every religion is "small-minded" and "intolerant" one way or another. You can't avoid it.

HouseMD1120
10-16-2008, 09:29 AM
Oh dear this is turning into a religious debate...

PurpleDucky
10-16-2008, 09:33 AM
Yeah I'm not gonna say anymore because I get into good debates about religion lol

HouseMD1120
10-16-2008, 09:37 AM
Yeah I'm not gonna say anymore because I get into good debates about religion lol

haha same here

Zip-A-Dee-Lady
10-16-2008, 11:13 AM
I think it is small minded to say that one candidate is more qualified than the other.

JulielovesDisney
10-16-2008, 11:15 AM
I think it is small minded to say that one candidate is more qualified than the other.

::yes::
Obviously they are equally qualified or else they wouldn't have made it this far.

Sparx
10-16-2008, 11:20 AM
Every religion is "small-minded" and "intolerant" one way or another. You can't avoid it.

not true.

ever met a buddhist? they're pretty much the most chilled out religion ever. they're not gonna try to convert you or anything, they're not going to tell you that your religion is wrong. the most they'll do is bless you, and wish you well on your life.

most western religions are intolerant of others, but go to the far east. they're pretty chilled out.

HouseMD1120
10-16-2008, 11:56 AM
I think it is small minded to say that one candidate is more qualified than the other.

IMHO, i totally disagree. McCain has been is the goverment for years, and Obama hasnt been in for very long. To me, the longer you do something, the more experienced you are. The more experienced you are with a job, the better qualified you are for a job.

imabrat
10-16-2008, 12:18 PM
IMHO, i totally disagree. McCain has been is the goverment for years, and Obama hasnt been in for very long. To me, the longer you do something, the more experienced you are. The more experienced you are with a job, the better qualified you are for a job.

How does the old saying go?
Professionals built the Titanic. Amateurs built the Ark.

CareBear00
10-16-2008, 12:52 PM
Even though McCain might have more political "experience" doesn't mean he's necessarily qualified for the job. His plans are awful, IMHO. And after watching the presidential debates, he's done for. He is coming across as soo desparate.

If I could vote, it would be for Obama.

seaturtledude
10-16-2008, 02:53 PM
McCain or Mc(War/Same/Bush) is not what we need right now, he and palin's plans are to similar to bush's. we need change! (OBAMA08)

Tinkerbell424
10-16-2008, 02:59 PM
Even though McCain might have more political "experience" doesn't mean he's necessarily qualified for the job. His plans are awful, IMHO. And after watching the presidential debates, he's done for. He is coming across as soo desparate.

If I could vote, it would be for Obama.

I completely agree!

McCain may have experience, but that doesn't mean he may have the best intentions for our country.

And FYI..Obama has 11 years as a senator.

PurpleDucky
10-16-2008, 06:00 PM
not true.

ever met a buddhist? they're pretty much the most chilled out religion ever. they're not gonna try to convert you or anything, they're not going to tell you that your religion is wrong. the most they'll do is bless you, and wish you well on your life.

most western religions are intolerant of others, but go to the far east. they're pretty chilled out.

I wasn't thinking of that religion when I made that statement, my mistake.

AbsoluteAwesome1
10-16-2008, 06:07 PM
Also, Obama has experience as a community planner.
He pretty much had the exact same job that my grandpa had for a while.
It's not nearly as fluffy a job as it sounds.
It's basically pulling a down-in-the-dumps community out of oblivion.

ohdisco
10-16-2008, 06:46 PM
Obama, but I still have problems with him.


Civil Rights: I've always believed the convicts of this country are taken care of far too well. They eat better than half of the country, most have at least cable television, and many other things. With Obama's reducing crime recidivism, we as citizens will be paying through taxes for convicts to get job training, substance abuse, and mental health counseling to have them re-integrated into our society. His fodder about how it's unfair that crack is treated differently in sentencing than power-based cocaine is ridiculous. Crack is dirtier and far more harmful to one's system than cocaine is, so why shouldn't it have a worse sentence? I also don't understand how he's going to change how every cop in america is twice as likely to search an African American or a Hispanic as a white for drugs.

Economy: I'm really happy that he's planning on ending tax breaks for companies who outsource their jobs, and giving rewards to companies who don't...but I don't think he'll be able to do that without extreme repercussions. I also don't understand where he's going to get all the money to provide all of the things (such as state of the art after school opportunities for children nationwide). Probably from money-having families (such as mine) paying a buttload of taxes just for having money. I will never understand why well-to-do people and families have to pay for things that have nothing to do with them. You wanna build a community center for inner-city children? Have fun fundraising, just don't take it out of my pocket because I don't live in the inner-city, and I will never go to that community center. Why even strive to have money when the first thing that happens when you do is you pay taxes up the ying-yang on programs you don't benefit from? I live in California, and I know in my area alone that there are a plethora of mothers that take welfare for granted and have baby after baby to keep that money coming in (and personally, I'd rather pay for those mothers to get job training, substance abuse, and mental health counseling than convicts). My taxes pay for the welfare those mothers use.

Foreign Policy: While I believe that the Kyl-Lieberman amendment was extremely stupid, I don't believe that giving Iran an ultimatum is going to help. Israel and Palestine will NEVER be two states living side by side peacefully. That fight has gone on for centuries, I don't think a man in power for 4 years is going to solve anything. African diplomats don't want us in their countries, and personally, if I was them, I wouldn't either. The UN workers are responsible for so many rapes in Africa that it's sickening. The people that are over there to help are the ones that are hurting.
*BIG LETTERS* GLOBAL POVERTY IS NOT OUR PROBLEM! *END BIG LETTERS* I'm sorry. So many of us in the United States live in poverty that you should really concentrate on your own country and generate wealth for your OWN country before you take on that huge task. I was hugely for Ron Paul's take on foreign policy which was basically to take the country back into isolation until we sort everything in this country out.

Immigration: While I'm HUGELY against illegal immigration (and I don't see how any californian could be for it), I am totally for undocumented immigrants paying a fine, LEARNING ENGLISH, and start the process of becoming a citizen rather than just free-loading on we Americans pay for (like health care). I also am for cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants, and strengthening our borders.

Education: All I can say is simplifying the application process for financial aid? count me in.

He also agrees with me on gay marriage: While he opposes gay marriage, he believes in full civil unions which give civil unions the same benefits as being married.

I just couldn't vote for a campaign that has a vice president who doesn't care about polar bears or women's choice of what to do with their bodies.

K-Shong99
10-16-2008, 07:12 PM
all i gotta say is, canadians, make room for one more.
if obama wins, i'm moving up there.
the man can't even back up his involvement with ACORN.
and i think terrorism is something to be taken into consideration.
ferreal.

i just have a lot of respect for mccain.
i think he is a great guy and would run this country well.

inlalaland
10-16-2008, 07:16 PM
I'm for Obama, and I also believe he will win. :)

wdwllamadancer
10-16-2008, 08:05 PM
mccain :D

pitt02
10-16-2008, 08:08 PM
Obamas spreading the wealth economic plan is horrible.

Babyjustrun
10-16-2008, 08:15 PM
all i gotta say is, canadians, make room for one more.
if obama wins, i'm moving up there.
the man can't even back up his involvement with ACORN.
and i think terrorism is something to be taken into consideration.
ferreal.

i just have a lot of respect for mccain.
i think he is a great guy and would run this country well.

Sadly, we've got just as many political problems as y'all do.
It's just that no one cares.
We've had 3 elections in 5 years.
We do have alaw that it's only every four years. But the prime minister who passed that bill, decided he didn't like his minority government, and broke the law and called an election. And guess what? We're still minority. What a WASTE of money.

Anyways, I would support Obama. But I can't fully say that, I haven't read his platform, I just know I don't like McCains' right now.

Shelton123
10-16-2008, 08:16 PM
The thing is, the terrorists are like .01% of the countries population. Why declare war on a country for just a few people?

Ms.Squeakers
10-16-2008, 08:38 PM
McCain or Mc(War/Same/Bush) is not what we need right now, he and palin's plans are to similar to bush's. we need change! (OBAMA08)

Uhm...wrong.

He may be of the same party in which there are set beliefs , but i can tell you, that both canidates for this year want change.

I really dont get the feeling that McCain likes Bush, i really dont.

chisnpeke
10-16-2008, 08:43 PM
Right now it looks as if Obama is going to win. But three weeks is forever in politics, so we'll see.

I'm voting for McCain, btw.

chisnpeke
10-16-2008, 08:44 PM
Uhm...wrong.

He may be of the same party in which there are set beliefs , but i can tell you, that both canidates for this year want change.

I really dont get the feeling that McCain likes Bush, i really dont.

I don't think he does. After what Bush and his people did to McCain in the 2000 primaries.

chisnpeke
10-16-2008, 08:49 PM
all i gotta say is, canadians, make room for one more.
if obama wins, i'm moving up there.
the man can't even back up his involvement with ACORN.
and i think terrorism is something to be taken into consideration.
ferreal.

i just have a lot of respect for mccain.
i think he is a great guy and would run this country well.

Really? You'd move to Canada just because of our president? I'm not too keen on the idea of an Obama presidency either, but I believe our country is the greatest in the world and I will never want to leave it.

pitt02
10-16-2008, 08:50 PM
There may only be .01% terrorists but it only takes 1 to kill thousands of American civillians

K-Shong99
10-16-2008, 09:23 PM
Really? You'd move to Canada just because of our president? I'm not too keen on the idea of an Obama presidency either, but I believe our country is the greatest in the world and I will never want to leave it.

it was a joke.
:confused3

i love my country too.
considering i have 5 family members in the service.
i wasn't being serious.

chisnpeke
10-16-2008, 11:29 PM
it was a joke.
:confused3

i love my country too.
considering i have 5 family members in the service.
i wasn't being serious.

I'm sorry. I've just heard too many people actually say this and they are dead serious. When people say it it just annoys me, especially because more often than not (from what I've experienced) they are serious!!


:flower3:

K-Shong99
10-17-2008, 06:17 PM
I'm sorry. I've just heard too many people actually say this and they are dead serious. When people say it it just annoys me, especially because more often than not (from what I've experienced) they are serious!!


:flower3:

it's all good.
lol.

i would like to visit canada someday though...
my pen pal used to say it was nice up there.
:rotfl:

I'm a Divaaaaa
10-17-2008, 07:32 PM
I'd move if McCain/Palin were put into office. I'm planning on studying abroad in either Paris or Montreal anyway but if those two get elected that will pretty much be the deciding factor to whether or not I go.

chisnpeke
10-17-2008, 10:02 PM
it's all good.
lol.

i would like to visit canada someday though...
my pen pal used to say it was nice up there.
:rotfl:

I've been there...once. I went to Niagra Falls. I liked it!

Ms.Squeakers
10-22-2008, 06:40 PM
bump :)

pitt02
10-22-2008, 07:04 PM
Well Biden just said that there would be a test on America within 6 months of Obamas presidency calling it an international crisis. If Obamas vp is sayin that what should i think.

Axel
10-22-2008, 07:37 PM
Obama.

I'm pretty much gonna end up being the only one on this board that's pro-socialism. And to an extent, I'm communistic.

Communism is a great thing, on paper. It's the greed of individuals that keeps it from happening in real life.

Just imagine- everybody as true equals. Given the exact same opportunities for education, health care, everything- no matter income or other circumstance.

Obama's the closest I'm gonna get to that.

As for why I don't like McCain, well, I do. I agree with some of his plans, and had Hilary won the primary, I'd stick my vote here in for McCain. But then he picked Sarah Palin. Never have I seen a worse candidate for public office. She abused her power while governor, used the state's money to pay for her kids to travel with her, and has no idea what's going on in the world. Those are not the qualities I want in a leader, thank you very much.

What I disagree with McCain about is the Iraq war and pro-life. While abortion isn't something I'd ever consider (unless my health- mental or otherwise- was endangered), it's not my position to dictate what others do in their own, unique, situations. I also don't agree with the war. It's a dumb reason we're in Iraq. And don't give me that mumbo-jumbo about weapons of mass destruction. I see our reasons for going into Afghanistan- but that's a whole 'nother issue.

Disney.Ears
10-22-2008, 08:16 PM
Just imagine- everybody as true equals. Given the exact same opportunities for education, health care, everything- no matter income or other circumstance.

I'm with my parents, on the fact that, why should someone who doesn't work nearly as hard and as much as my parents do to support their family get the same health care as us? Like my parents work their ***** off to do what's best for our family. And there's people who just...don't. So why should they get equal healthcare if they're not working equally as hard?

Tinkerbell424
10-22-2008, 08:23 PM
I'm with my parents, on the fact that, why should someone who doesn't work nearly as hard and as much as my parents do to support their family get the same health care as us? Like my parents work their ***** off to do what's best for our family. And there's people who just...don't. So why should they get equal healthcare if they're not working equally as hard?

Because denying healthcare to someone because they can't afford it is cruel.

A lot of people work hard at what they do, but aren't able to afford healthcare or insurance. Thank god that my family doesn't get sick or injured often or else we probably would have to cut back on some things just to afford to pay the hospital/doctor bills.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money as your parents, doesn't mean we should let people be sick,injured, or hurt. :confused3

Disney.Ears
10-22-2008, 08:26 PM
Because denying healthcare to someone because they can't afford it is cruel.

A lot of people work hard at what they do, but aren't able to afford healthcare or insurance. Thank god that my family doesn't get sick or injured often or else we probably would have to cut back on some things just to afford to pay the hospital/doctor bills.

Just because someone doesn't make as much money as your parents, doesn't mean we should let people be sick,injured, or hurt. :confused3

True. I see what you're saying.

But like...I think everyone should be able to recieve healthcare, but not like equally? I don't know how to put it into words :/ I know it doesn't help my supporting stuff but..yeah.

Tinkerbell424
10-22-2008, 08:29 PM
True. I see what you're saying.

But like...I think everyone should be able to recieve healthcare, but not like equally? I don't know how to put it into words :/ I know it doesn't help my supporting stuff but..yeah.


Oh...like, everyone should recieve healthcare, but those who have the money should have a little bit more? I'm not sure how to explain it.

I see what you're saying.

pitt02
10-22-2008, 08:45 PM
Okay health care maybe but you want to talk about costly projects that will cost trillions to get every1 health care and if Obama wants to do that the economy is ruined. And every1 making equal money, not to sound rude, is just stupid. Why should a maid at a hotel make as much as a brain surgeon; they can actually kill someone and have way higher insurance that just doesnt make sense.

Disney.Ears
10-22-2008, 08:46 PM
Oh...like, everyone should recieve healthcare, but those who have the money should have a little bit more? I'm not sure how to explain it.

I see what you're saying.

Yeah. Like I think it's like, morally wrong to deny someone healthcare. But if you work extra hard at your job, then your healthcare should be stronger.

Glad we see what eachother is saying. xD

I didn't mean any disrespect in my original post by the way!

Tinkerbell424
10-22-2008, 08:47 PM
Yeah. Like I think it's like, morally wrong to deny someone healthcare. But if you work extra hard at your job, then your healthcare should be stronger.

Glad we see what eachother is saying. xD

I didn't mean any disrespect in my original post by the way!

Ohh! Okay, I'm sorry..I misunderstood your post then.

xD

Me either!

Disney.Ears
10-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Ohh! Okay, I'm sorry..I misunderstood your post then.

xD

Me either!

No problem! It's understandable.

Like, pitt02 said, a maid shouldn't be on the same level of healthcare as a brain surgeon. I think the maid should still have healthcare, but not the same level as the brain surgeon.

chisnpeke
10-22-2008, 09:39 PM
I'm with my parents, on the fact that, why should someone who doesn't work nearly as hard and as much as my parents do to support their family get the same health care as us? Like my parents work their ***** off to do what's best for our family. And there's people who just...don't. So why should they get equal healthcare if they're not working equally as hard?

Exactly. And why should the people who are sitting around with their hands out get the same healthcare as the people who are working so hard? It makes no sense. I'm sorry if that sounds terrible but there are a LOT of people who can work but just choose not to and decide to live off the government.

chisnpeke
10-22-2008, 09:42 PM
No problem! It's understandable.

Like, pitt02 said, a maid shouldn't be on the same level of healthcare as a brain surgeon. I think the maid should still have healthcare, but not the same level as the brain surgeon.

If the maid works hard then she can have the same healthcare as the brain surgeon. The government should not be giving them equal healthcare though.

There are hardly going to be any good doctors if the government runs our healthcare.

imabrat
10-22-2008, 09:54 PM
No problem! It's understandable.

Like, pitt02 said, a maid shouldn't be on the same level of healthcare as a brain surgeon. I think the maid should still have healthcare, but not the same level as the brain surgeon.

Uhm, why? If a maid can afford high quality healthcare just as a brain surgeon can, why can't they have it? Career does not spare disease, just because a mother was a lunch lady and her child was diagnosed with a brain tumor means the child shouldn't have quality care? :confused3

As for equal healthcare, think of others. If I'm reading this correctly, I thought Obama was for standardized healthcare, and then if you want to pay for extras you can. IE : Everyone qualifies for COBRA, but if you want to pay for Blue Cross and Blue Shield you can get it.

Take a janitor for example. He works two jobs, he has a full time job as a janitor and a part time at McDonalds. He's struggling to support his 2 kids and his wife can't work due to disability. She got in a car crash 7 years ago and had her ankle shattered.
He's BARELY getting by, has enough to pay the utilites in his dumpy apartment, and rides the bus to and from work. With Obama's proposed plan, he now qualifies for healthcare and his family. Tragically, his wife develops infection and needs extensive care in a hospital. Because of his income he is not allowed to have quality care? (And don't tell me that BCBS and COBRA have the same in-system hospitals, because they don't.)

Maybe this makes sense in my head only, IDK.

chisnpeke
10-22-2008, 10:10 PM
Uhm, why? If a maid can afford high quality healthcare just as a brain surgeon can, why can't they have it? Career does not spare disease, just because a mother was a lunch lady and her child was diagnosed with a brain tumor means the child shouldn't have quality care? :confused3

As for equal healthcare, think of others. If I'm reading this correctly, I thought Obama was for standardized healthcare, and then if you want to pay for extras you can. IE : Everyone qualifies for COBRA, but if you want to pay for Blue Cross and Blue Shield you can get it.

Take a janitor for example. He works two jobs, he has a full time job as a janitor and a part time at McDonalds. He's struggling to support his 2 kids and his wife can't work due to disability. She got in a car crash 7 years ago and had her ankle shattered.
He's BARELY getting by, has enough to pay the utilites in his dumpy apartment, and rides the bus to and from work. With Obama's proposed plan, he now qualifies for healthcare and his family. Tragically, his wife develops infection and needs extensive care in a hospital. Because of his income he is not allowed to have quality care? (And don't tell me that BCBS and COBRA have the same in-system hospitals, because they don't.)

Maybe this makes sense in my head only, IDK.

Ok, let's think about this as if the wife didn't get an infection. Let's just assume she shattered her ankle seven years ago and is disabled because of it. There's NOTHING she can do as far as work goes? I find that hard to believe. If you are sick with an infection or disease that is different, but a disability because of a shattered ankle should not hinder anyone from working somewhere.

I'm a Divaaaaa
10-22-2008, 10:14 PM
No problem! It's understandable.

Like, pitt02 said, a maid shouldn't be on the same level of healthcare as a brain surgeon. I think the maid should still have healthcare, but not the same level as the brain surgeon.

It's pretty darn ignorant to think that a maid doesn't work as hard as a brain surgeon.

pitt02
10-22-2008, 10:20 PM
All i am saying is a brain surgeon went to college for 8 maybe 10 yrs to do what he is doing putting in over $40,000s a yr ur taking wat i said out of context i understand they work hard. And where is all the money coming from to get the healthcare for all these ppl; any1 can say ya ill get the same healthcare for you then what i get like Obama says. But where is all the money coming from were not picking it off trees its going to end up being put back in taxes whicch noone wants to pay so Obama sorry you cant do both.

chisnpeke
10-22-2008, 10:35 PM
It's pretty darn ignorant to think that a maid doesn't work as hard as a brain surgeon.

I don't think she said a maid didn't work as hard as a brain surgeon. A maid should get as good of healthcare as she can afford. A brain surgeon typically makes more than a maid, so they are going to have better healthcare. I don't think that just because someone makes less money than someone else they should have equal healthcare. A maid has the same oppotunity to go to school and earn more money if they want to.

I'm a Divaaaaa
10-22-2008, 10:56 PM
I don't think she said a maid didn't work as hard as a brain surgeon. A maid should get as good of healthcare as she can afford. A brain surgeon typically makes more than a maid, so they are going to have better healthcare. I don't think that just because someone makes less money than someone else they should have equal healthcare. A maid has the same oppotunity to go to school and earn more money if they want to.

This is not true. There are people out there that come from lesser backgrounds that would LOVE to do something with themselves yet their family can't put them through any sort of schooling. You may not be aware of this but, uh, college is expensive. Do you know how much debt doctors are in before they even make a living? So not everyone has the opportunity to put themselves through 8 years of school.

chisnpeke
10-22-2008, 11:14 PM
This is not true. There are people out there that come from lesser backgrounds that would LOVE to do something with themselves yet their family can't put them through any sort of schooling. You may not be aware of this but, uh, college is expensive. Do you know how much debt doctors are in before they even make a living? So not everyone has the opportunity to put themselves through 8 years of school.

I'm in college. I'm very well aware of how expensive it is. You don't have to rely on your parents to send you to school. Work and send yourself. And you don't have to go through 8 years of school to get a degree.

Disney.Ears
10-23-2008, 06:02 AM
It's pretty darn ignorant to think that a maid doesn't work as hard as a brain surgeon.

Like Laura said, I never said a maid doesn't work as hard as a brain surgeon.
The brain surgeon has gone to all extents to reach the level of their career that they're out. And with that, their healthcare should be higher.

I don't think she said a maid didn't work as hard as a brain surgeon. A maid should get as good of healthcare as she can afford. A brain surgeon typically makes more than a maid, so they are going to have better healthcare. I don't think that just because someone makes less money than someone else they should have equal healthcare. A maid has the same oppotunity to go to school and earn more money if they want to.

::yes:: Exactly my thinking as well.

imabrat
10-23-2008, 10:14 AM
Ok, let's think about this as if the wife didn't get an infection. Let's just assume she shattered her ankle seven years ago and is disabled because of it. There's NOTHING she can do as far as work goes? I find that hard to believe. If you are sick with an infection or disease that is different, but a disability because of a shattered ankle should not hinder anyone from working somewhere.

Would you like me to say she broke her spine column in a bus crash and it was un-repairable? It's an example for pete's sake.

imabrat
10-23-2008, 10:20 AM
I'm in college. I'm very well aware of how expensive it is. You don't have to rely on your parents to send you to school. Work and send yourself. And you don't have to go through 8 years of school to get a degree.

Here's where the problem lies. You want to go to school to get a degree to get a better job. Problem - Successful jobs won't pay as much without a degree. Take our current economy into play, not many jobs and not great pay. College tuition is skyrocketing. I'm sorry, but your solution isn't going to work for many in this day and age.
JMO.

This is not true. There are people out there that come from lesser backgrounds that would LOVE to do something with themselves yet their family can't put them through any sort of schooling. You may not be aware of this but, uh, college is expensive. Do you know how much debt doctors are in before they even make a living? So not everyone has the opportunity to put themselves through 8 years of school.

:thumbsup2

Axel
10-23-2008, 10:34 AM
Okay health care maybe but you want to talk about costly projects that will cost trillions to get every1 health care and if Obama wants to do that the economy is ruined. And every1 making equal money, not to sound rude, is just stupid. Why should a maid at a hotel make as much as a brain surgeon; they can actually kill someone and have way higher insurance that just doesnt make sense.

I never said that she should make as much to begin with. I'm a fan of progressive taxes. Everybody is taxed the same amount (say....30%), but those with higher income pay more in taxes because 30% of their income is higher than 30% of a person who makes less. They still make more, they just have a higher ability to pay.

This is not true. There are people out there that come from lesser backgrounds that would LOVE to do something with themselves yet their family can't put them through any sort of schooling. You may not be aware of this but, uh, college is expensive. Do you know how much debt doctors are in before they even make a living? So not everyone has the opportunity to put themselves through 8 years of school.

Exactly. I don't have a ton of money- maybe enough for my first year at an extremely low cost school. That's because my parents started saving when I was born. What happens to the kids whose parents work 9-5 jobs making minimum wage and can barely pay rent and buy food. They are working, but it's to pay for their housing and eating and utility costs. They don't go to college because even trying to afford it- even with loans- is almost impossibly hard for them. Why shouldn't they have the same opportunities?

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 01:17 PM
All i am saying is a brain surgeon went to college for 8 maybe 10 yrs to do what he is doing putting in over $40,000s a yr ur taking wat i said out of context i understand they work hard. And where is all the money coming from to get the healthcare for all these ppl; any1 can say ya ill get the same healthcare for you then what i get like Obama says. But where is all the money coming from were not picking it off trees its going to end up being put back in taxes whicch noone wants to pay so Obama sorry you cant do both.

Not everyone is able to afford college. Especially during the recession we are in now. How can you tell someone "No, you may not have this surgery to save your life because you can't afford it."

Why do people even care if someone who isn't as rich as them is getting the same healthcare? Your getting healthcare, and that's all that should matter. If it was you being told you can not have something to treat you because you couldn't afford it, I'm sure you'd be pissed.

&& about the comment if a woman shattered her ankle and didn't have a job after 7 years due to disability. You wouldnt know that women's predicaments. :confused3 If she's on disability, she's most likely getting $1000-$2000 from the government per month to live on. If she works, she loses that money and just get's the regular salary. My mom get's disability checks every month from the government because she got Hep. C from the hospital. She's usually normal but just can't work long hours. The only job she could get with a decent paycheck is back at the hospital for 4/5 hours and make less money then the disability check..so just because someone chooses not to work and are on disability..there's usually a reason behind it.

Overall, I think everyone should be given equal healthcare and if you can afford extras, then pay for them. Don't deny someone healthcare because they don't have the money.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 02:39 PM
Here's where the problem lies. You want to go to school to get a degree to get a better job. Problem - Successful jobs won't pay as much without a degree. Take our current economy into play, not many jobs and not great pay. College tuition is skyrocketing. I'm sorry, but your solution isn't going to work for many in this day and age.
JMO.



:thumbsup2

My opinion is that if you work hard enough in this country you can get where you want to be. It might take years but you CAN achieve success. You don't HAVE to go to college either to be successful. You can work your way up in places, you can start your own business later on.

If everyone has healthcare there are going to be less good doctors to go around in this country because they won't want to be paid what the government pays them so people will have to wait and wait and wait.

My grandpa came from NOTHING. He worked his entire life and towards the end of his life he was comfortable. He never went to college, he just worked and saved. You can achieve what you want in life, you just have to work for it.

I believe in the American Dream.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 02:42 PM
Would you like me to say she broke her spine column in a bus crash and it was un-repairable? It's an example for pete's sake.

No. What I am saying is what if she can work (because you CAN work on disability and still get the benefits) but refuses to? I don't think that everyone else should be paying for her. There are too many people in this country mooching off the government. I have friends who are doing it and still complain they don't get enough, yet they don't have a job. I see people come into my work who look like they haven't been to a doctor in their lives yet they easily plunk down $1,000 for amusement park passes. Give me a break, you (general you) don't need that.

Pay for your own things and I'll pay for mine.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 02:50 PM
Exactly. I don't have a ton of money- maybe enough for my first year at an extremely low cost school. That's because my parents started saving when I was born. What happens to the kids whose parents work 9-5 jobs making minimum wage and can barely pay rent and buy food. They are working, but it's to pay for their housing and eating and utility costs. They don't go to college because even trying to afford it- even with loans- is almost impossibly hard for them. Why shouldn't they have the same opportunities?

If they have no money there are government grants. FAFSA.

If you work hard in school there are a lot of scholarships.

I just really truly think that if you want something bad enough and you work hard enough for it you will get it.

DramaGirl
10-23-2008, 03:49 PM
Obama. I disagree with everything Palin says. Maverick. Ugh.

I honestly don't know yet.


Obama scares the crap out of me. But, I don't like McCain much either.

Why? This is an honest question- I'm totally not trying to pick a fight. I just honestly want to hear it from someone else's viewpoint.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 04:05 PM
Obama. I disagree with everything Palin says. Maverick. Ugh.



Why? This is an honest question- I'm totally not trying to pick a fight. I just honestly want to hear it from someone else's viewpoint.

He doesn't scare me but I don't like his tax policy. I also don't feel he has enough experience, so that is what scares me about him.

pitt02
10-23-2008, 04:21 PM
Okay i will agree that everyone should get healthcare and of course needs it i just dont get where you guys think all the money is coming from if you think taxes are bad now if we implement that policy your going to see taxes rise to an astronomical amount which most people arent going to afford.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 04:24 PM
Okay i will agree that everyone should get healthcare and of course needs it i just dont get where you guys think all the money is coming from if you think taxes are bad now if we implement that policy your going to see taxes rise to an astronomical amount which most people arent going to afford.

That's true. But people think that everyone else should be taxed to help everyone else. We are going to have sky high taxes in this country if we get universal healthcare!

imabrat
10-23-2008, 05:02 PM
My opinion is that if you work hard enough in this country you can get where you want to be. It might take years but you CAN achieve success. You don't HAVE to go to college either to be successful. You can work your way up in places, you can start your own business later on.

If everyone has healthcare there are going to be less good doctors to go around in this country because they won't want to be paid what the government pays them so people will have to wait and wait and wait.

My grandpa came from NOTHING. He worked his entire life and towards the end of his life he was comfortable. He never went to college, he just worked and saved. You can achieve what you want in life, you just have to work for it.

I believe in the American Dream.


You can't go to college because you don't have enough money. How can you start a business which requires a lot of money?
Yeah, there may be less good doctors but at least people would be able to be seen by doctors instead of going undiagnosed and untreated like many are now.
I don't think there is such a thing as the American Dream in this economy. IMO, everyone wanted so much to have the American Dream (keeping up with the Jones') that it led to the state of our economy today.

In referance to your next post, I thought if you were on Disability is was a federal offense to have a well-paying job?

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 05:15 PM
You can't go to college because you don't have enough money. How can you start a business which requires a lot of money?
Yeah, there may be less good doctors but at least people would be able to be seen by doctors instead of going undiagnosed and untreated like many are now.
I don't think there is such a thing as the American Dream in this economy. IMO, everyone wanted so much to have the American Dream (keeping up with the Jones') that it led to the state of our economy today.

In referance to your next post, I thought if you were on Disability is was a federal offense to have a well-paying job?

If your on Disability and you get a well-paying job, you will not be on disability anymore...and if you keep taking the money and they haven't caught on..then yes it probably is a federal offense.

I like Obama's tax policy. He's not going to increase it for people who make less then a certain amount, obviously if you make more money you should be able to pay the higher taxes. Why make people who make $24,000 pay the same taxes as someone who makes $100,000? The person who make's $24,000 probably will have a harder time coming up with the money to pay for the taxes, while still keeping a roof over there head and food to eat.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 05:18 PM
You can't go to college because you don't have enough money. How can you start a business which requires a lot of money?
Yeah, there may be less good doctors but at least people would be able to be seen by doctors instead of going undiagnosed and untreated like many are now.
I don't think there is such a thing as the American Dream in this economy. IMO, everyone wanted so much to have the American Dream (keeping up with the Jones') that it led to the state of our economy today.

In referance to your next post, I thought if you were on Disability is was a federal offense to have a well-paying job?

You can earn your money to go to college, you can get loans and grants. You can earn your money to start a business. I never said it wouldn't take a while, but it is possible.

There are limits on how much you can make while on disability, but you should be able to work at least at a minimum wage job. At least it's something.

The American Dream is not having everything, it's being successful. It has nothing to do with materialism (in my opinion). It has to do with owning your own home and being comfortable and not struggling. I think that is still possible.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 05:19 PM
If your on Disability and you get a well-paying job, you will not be on disability anymore...and if you keep taking the money and they haven't caught on..then yes it probably is a federal offense.

I like Obama's tax policy. He's not going to increase it for people who make less then a certain amount, obviously if you make more money you should be able to pay the higher taxes. Why make people who make $24,000 pay the same taxes as someone who makes $100,000? The person who make's $24,000 probably will have a harder time coming up with the money to pay for the taxes, while still keeping a roof over there head and food to eat.

What about the people who pay NO taxes? They aren't contributing anything but they will get a government handout.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 05:20 PM
What about the people who pay NO taxes? They aren't contributing anything but they will get a government handout.

People who don't pay taxes end up in prison.:confused3

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 05:22 PM
People who don't pay taxes end up in prison.:confused3

No, there are some people who don't make enough to pay income tax. Yet under Obama's plan they will get a government handout.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 05:31 PM
No, there are some people who don't make enough to pay income tax. Yet under Obama's plan they will get a government handout.

Uhm...well if they aren't able to make enough income then I don't see anything wrong with it. They must be in poverty level if they can't afford income tax, so why are you getting all upset about someone who is poverty level and can't afford taxes?

You should be happy that your family or anyone who pays taxes, are able to afford them.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 05:44 PM
Uhm...well if they aren't able to make enough income then I don't see anything wrong with it. They must be in poverty level if they can't afford income tax, so why are you getting all upset about someone who is poverty level and can't afford taxes?

You should be happy that your family or anyone who pays taxes, are able to afford them.

Because it's a handout. If they need government assistance there is welfare and food stamps. That's MY money that is helping to fund those programs for people who need them.

I'm thankful for what I have but I am not happy about the government taking my hard earned money and giving it away to people who refuse to better themselves. That is a handout.

If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't get a tax cut because you don't pay any! People who don't pay taxes yet get a refund check are getting a government handout, funded by you and me and everyone else who works.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:01 PM
Because it's a handout. If they need government assistance there is welfare and food stamps. That's MY money that is helping to fund those programs for people who need them.

I'm thankful for what I have but I am not happy about the government taking my hard earned money and giving it away to people who refuse to better themselves. That is a handout.

If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't get a tax cut because you don't pay any! People who don't pay taxes yet get a refund check are getting a government handout, funded by you and me and everyone else who works.

Uhm...those people might work VERY hard for the money they make. They might not have been able to afford college or have an education. Please don't assume, that just because someone can't afford to pay taxes that they don't work hard for what they do have. Sometimes food stamps and welfare take awhile to process.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:07 PM
Uhm...those people might work VERY hard for the money they make. They might not have been able to afford college or have an education. Please don't assume, that just because someone can't afford to pay taxes that they don't work hard for what they do have. Sometimes food stamps and welfare take awhile to process.

I never said they didn't work hard. Instead of telling me not to make assumptions maybe you shouldn't make them yourself.

I work hard for my money and I don't want to pay for them to get handouts when they don't pay taxes just because they don't have as much. I give to charities, but I don't want to pay for everyone. It's not my job. People should be held accountable and giving them a handout will not help them be accountable.

imabrat
10-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Laura, where are you coming from?

I agree that the public shouldn't have to pay for some lazy dingdings who don't want to work and mooch off the government. Your posts make it seem like anyone who accepts government assistance is a bad person. I do think we need to have some harder rules about checking up on those with assistance.

But for people who can't pay their taxes because they are genuienly trying to make it in this world, yes, I do think they deserve a tax cut. If they can't afford taxes as it is, the tax cut would help them build up. More money = more oppurtunity for an education = better paying jobs = able to afford regular taxes.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:19 PM
I never said they didn't work hard. Instead of telling me not to make assumptions maybe you shouldn't make them yourself.

I work hard for my money and I don't want to pay for them to get handouts when they don't pay taxes just because they don't have as much. I give to charities, but I don't want to pay for everyone. It's not my job. People should be held accountable and giving them a handout will not help them be accountable.

Sorry, I mis-read what you wrote.
Your taxes pay for everyone. They also pay to keep prisoners in prison and pay to give them food, and tv's and all that stuff in their cells. So, why not get upset at them for making a stupid choice to get themselves in there? :confused3

Yes people should be held accountable, but when they are poverty level you need to give them a break. Yes food stamps and welfare, but not everyone qualifies for food stamps all the time and it takes awhile to get there..sometimes there's different situations for different people. :rolleyes:

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:23 PM
Laura, where are you coming from?

I agree that the public shouldn't have to pay for some lazy dingdings who don't want to work and mooch off the government. Your posts make it seem like anyone who accepts government assistance is a bad person. I do think we need to have some harder rules about checking up on those with assistance.

But for people who can't pay their taxes because they are genuienly trying to make it in this world, yes, I do think they deserve a tax cut. If they can't afford taxes as it is, the tax cut would help them build up. More money = more oppurtunity for an education = better paying jobs = able to afford regular taxes.

Obviously everyone is in disagreement with me about this issue.

I have no problem with government programs helping people who need them. Food stamps and welfare are examples. However I do have a problem giving away money to people. What does that motivate people to do? A lot of those people aren't even trying to find work because good old uncle same is going to give them money so why try?

My basic point is you pay for your own family and I'll pay for mine. I don't want to pay for people who CAN and are ABLE to help themselves but refuse to. I've seen it too many times. It's not because they are so badly disabled that they can't, it's that they just are lazy. That is what would happen under Obama's plan.

imabrat
10-23-2008, 06:27 PM
Obviously everyone is in disagreement with me about this issue.

I have no problem with government programs helping people who need them. Food stamps and welfare are examples. However I do have a problem giving away money to people. What does that motivate people to do? A lot of those people aren't even trying to find work because good old uncle same is going to give them money so why try?

My basic point is you pay for your own family and I'll pay for mine. I don't want to pay for people who CAN and are ABLE to help themselves but refuse to. I've seen it too many times. It's not because they are so badly disabled that they can't, it's that they just are lazy. That is what would happen under Obama's plan.

I understand and I completely agree with you. I think we should have stricter investigations for those who truly need it. For those who truly need it, I have no probelm with giving them incentives to pick up their life.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:27 PM
Obviously everyone is in disagreement with me about this issue.

I have no problem with government programs helping people who need them. Food stamps and welfare are examples. However I do have a problem giving away money to people. What does that motivate people to do? A lot of those people aren't even trying to find work because good old uncle same is going to give them money so why try?

My basic point is you pay for your own family and I'll pay for mine. I don't want to pay for people who CAN and are ABLE to help themselves but refuse to. I've seen it too many times. It's not because they are so badly disabled that they can't, it's that they just are lazy. That is what would happen under Obama's plan.

Where is your proof that people who can't afford to pay taxes aren't paying because they are to lazy to get a job or work hard for their job? Because..most people I know or have seen, work very hard at their job so they can afford the necessities of life.

Your taxes don't go to pay for your own family. So why is it such a big deal to you that the government is helping out people who don't make so much money?

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:28 PM
Sorry, I mis-read what you wrote.
Your taxes pay for everyone. They also pay to keep prisoners in prison and pay to give them food, and tv's and all that stuff in their cells. So, why not get upset at them for making a stupid choice to get themselves in there? :confused3

Yes people should be held accountable, but when they are poverty level you need to give them a break. Yes food stamps and welfare, but not everyone qualifies for food stamps all the time and it takes awhile to get there..sometimes there's different situations for different people. :rolleyes:

Prison is necessary. School is necessary. Some government assistance programs are necessary. Handouts are not.

I know people who qualify for food stamps right now but don't want to get a job because it would take away their food stamps. Yet they would be adding $1,000 to their household when it's just two adults and a baby who is already getting their food from WIC (Women Infants and Children).

jemberly_ann
10-23-2008, 06:30 PM
im pro-life all the way!

GO MCCAIN!

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:31 PM
Where is your proof that people who can't afford to pay taxes aren't paying because they are to lazy to get a job or work hard for their job? Because..most people I know or have seen, work very hard at their job so they can afford the necessities of life.

Your taxes don't go to pay for your own family. So why is it such a big deal to you that the government is helping out people who don't make so much money?

Do you have proof that they aren't? Not everyone is like that, but a good amount of them are.

It's a big deal to me because my taxes will go up! That is what I am upset about. It's hard enough to pay for my own things that I need, I don't think it's fair that I should be helping people who are capable of helping themselves but just refuse to.

I am not talking about people who have circumstances which prevent them from working. I'm talking about people who refuse to work and getting a handout would only promote their idea that the government is always gonna be there to bail them out.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:31 PM
Prison is necessary. School is necessary. Some government assistance programs are necessary. Handouts are not.

I know people who qualify for food stamps right now but don't want to get a job because it would take away their food stamps. Yet they would be adding $1,000 to their household when it's just two adults and a baby who is already getting their food from WIC (Women Infants and Children).

Is it really necessary for those on death row to have tv's in there prison cell? Those people made a choice to be where they are...THEY did something, and you have to pay for it. I'd be pretty upset with THAT.

Do you know they reason why they don't want jobs and just want to live off their food stamps? =/

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:33 PM
I understand and I completely agree with you. I think we should have stricter investigations for those who truly need it. For those who truly need it, I have no probelm with giving them incentives to pick up their life.

YES! This is what I've been trying to say. People who need help I have NO PROBLEM helping. I help them by paying into government programs already in place. I DO have a problem "helping" people who are fully capable of helping themselves but just flat out refuse.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:35 PM
Do you have proof that they aren't? Not everyone is like that, but a good amount of them are.

It's a big deal to me because my taxes will go up! That is what I am upset about. It's hard enough to pay for my own things that I need, I don't think it's fair that I should be helping people who are capable of helping themselves but just refuse to.

I am not talking about people who have circumstances which prevent them from working. I'm talking about people who refuse to work and getting a handout would only promote their idea that the government is always gonna be there to bail them out.

Not everyone is lazy and doesn't just not work to their potential to feed their famalies.

If you make money above a certain amount that they are saying, then I agree your taxes should go up. Why should someone who's making $100,000 pay the same taxes as someone making $40,000? If you make more money and want a better healthcare then those who can't afford it, then prepare to pay higher taxes. If you don't like that the government is helping people so we don't become a third-world country with a ton of homeless people then I'm sorry. Life isn't fair, and I'm sure most of the people who can't even afford to pay taxes know that.

Now I agree though with you about lazy people. If people are just mouching off the government because they don't feel like working, then thats not right..but for those who do work and work their best but aren't getting anyway, I feel as though they should be given a handout until they are able to go on welfare or food stamps.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Is it really necessary for those on death row to have tv's in there prison cell? Those people made a choice to be where they are...THEY did something, and you have to pay for it. I'd be pretty upset with THAT.

Do you know they reason why they don't want jobs and just want to live off their food stamps? =/

It's still not a government handout. I am benefitting from them being in prison because it helps to keep me safe. I'd actually rather have them in prison for life than have had a death penalty trial because a death penalty is ALWAYS more expensive than putting someone in prison for life.

They don't want a job because there is an excuse for everything and everyplace I suggest they work. They won't get to see their boyfriend as much. I've had it said to me to my face. You do what you need to do to get by and they are refusing to because it's not "convenient" or fun or easy for them. Working isn't the best thing but you do it because you have to.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:40 PM
Not everyone is lazy and doesn't just not work to their potential to feed their famalies.

If you make money above a certain amount that they are saying, then I agree your taxes should go up. Why should someone who's making $100,000 pay the same taxes as someone making $40,000? If you make more money and want a better healthcare then those who can't afford it, then prepare to pay higher taxes. If you don't like that the government is helping people so we don't become a third-world country with a ton of homeless people then I'm sorry. Life isn't fair, and I'm sure most of the people who can't even afford to pay taxes know that.

Now I agree though with you about lazy people. If people are just mouching off the government because they don't feel like working, then thats not right..but for those who do work and work their best but aren't getting anyway, I feel as though they should be given a handout until they are able to go on welfare or food stamps.

There is no way we are even close to being a third world country. We are by far the most wealthy country this world has ever seen and I do not believe are going to be overtaken anytime soon. People continue to flock here because the opportunities are so great. No other country can hold that claim.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:41 PM
It's still not a government handout. I am benefitting from them being in prison because it helps to keep me safe. I'd actually rather have them in prison for life than have had a death penalty trial because a death penalty is ALWAYS more expensive than putting someone in prison for life.

They don't want a job because there is an excuse for everything and everyplace I suggest they work. They won't get to see their boyfriend as much. I've had it said to me to my face. You do what you need to do to get by and they are refusing to because it's not "convenient" or fun or easy for them. Working isn't the best thing but you do it because you have to.

Lol..I know prison is benefitting all of us! But I mean...if you have a life sentence, we shouldnt have to pay taxes so they can watch tv or have a tv in their cell...

Oh..well in that case, I agree with you. Like I said in my post before, I agree with you on the laziness, but people who are truly not able to afford it and have a job, then I think they should get the handout.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:42 PM
There is no way we are even close to being a third world country. We are by far the most wealthy country this world has ever seen and I do not believe are going to be overtaken anytime soon. People continue to flock here because the opportunities are so great. No other country can hold that claim.

Sure...but do you really want to live in a nation where there are more homeless and poverty struck people then there are people who can afford there homes?

imabrat
10-23-2008, 06:42 PM
Okay, I think we're all on the same page here.

Help for those who genuinely need it, not for those who are too lazy.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:44 PM
Sure...but do you really want to live in a nation where there are more homeless and poverty struck people then there are people who can afford there homes?

No, I don't want to live in a nation like that. But I don't think we are going to have more homeless than people in homes. If it happens, I'll change my stance.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:45 PM
Okay, I think we're all on the same page here.

Help for those who genuinely need it, not for those who are too lazy.

Yes! It just took a while and lots of typing to get to the same page.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:46 PM
Lol..I know prison is benefitting all of us! But I mean...if you have a life sentence, we shouldnt have to pay taxes so they can watch tv or have a tv in their cell...

Oh..well in that case, I agree with you. Like I said in my post before, I agree with you on the laziness, but people who are truly not able to afford it and have a job, then I think they should get the handout.

I agree. I don't think people in prison should have tvs, especially the horrible offenders. But I still feel them being in prison is more beneficial to society so I'm not going to complain as long as they are there.

Tinkerbell424
10-23-2008, 06:54 PM
I agree. I don't think people in prison should have tvs, especially the horrible offenders. But I still feel them being in prison is more beneficial to society so I'm not going to complain as long as they are there.

I agree. Prison is definitely beneficial..the tv's however, are not!

I'm glad we are all on the same page. I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 06:59 PM
I agree. Prison is definitely beneficial..the tv's however, are not!

I'm glad we are all on the same page. I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway.

Oh no you didn't offend me! I don't get offended easily. I like spirited discussions! :thumbsup2

imabrat
10-23-2008, 07:02 PM
Hm. What can our next topic be?
DEFINITELY not abortion or gay rights, that never ends well.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 07:17 PM
Hm. What can our next topic be?
DEFINITELY not abortion or gay rights, that never ends well.

Nope, definitely not one of those two.

Education? Environment? War in Iraq? (I don't know how you really debate that though since I think the consensus is that is was a bad bad idea...maybe an exit plan could be though)

ETA: Gun control

imabrat
10-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Education? Well, I think we all agree NCLB was the worst thing in the history of education. If I go on anymore, I'm going to get on a Bush-bashing tangent, and unfortunately I won't be able to excuse my French.

Gun control I'm very torn about. I think we should have the right to bear arms, but I can't help but feel this right has led to the many shootings and fatalities of our day. I don't have much info on this either.

PinkAnimePrincess
10-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Obama, all the way.

chisnpeke
10-23-2008, 08:12 PM
NCLB was a bad move for education. If I didn't pass a state test I wouldn't have been able to graduate high school, regardless of how good my grades are.

Some people aren't good test takers.

Axel
10-23-2008, 09:22 PM
If they have no money there are government grants. FAFSA.

If you work hard in school there are a lot of scholarships.

I just really truly think that if you want something bad enough and you work hard enough for it you will get it.

Right now, a FAFSA loan is next to impossible to secure. Hundreds of students promised FAFSA loans to go to BC and BU were suddenly denied them right before term started. They're now scrambling to pay for college. Working hard in school =/= scholarship every time. I'm top 15% in my class, an honors student across the board, yet I probably won't qualify for any scholarship money at all.

Because it's a handout. If they need government assistance there is welfare and food stamps. That's MY money that is helping to fund those programs for people who need them.

I'm thankful for what I have but I am not happy about the government taking my hard earned money and giving it away to people who refuse to better themselves. That is a handout.

If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't get a tax cut because you don't pay any! People who don't pay taxes yet get a refund check are getting a government handout, funded by you and me and everyone else who works.

I see welfare and food stamps as handouts by that definition. If they need them, they must not be working hard enough, so why even bother giving them out? Some people need those to get by. If you want to know exactly how hard somebody can work and still need those and to be extraordinarily thankful for a handout like the rebate check, go read "Nickled and Dimed" by Laura Schlissinger. For every person just sitting around doing nothing and mooching off government money, there's probably two working 60 hours a week just to put food on the table.

There is no way we are even close to being a third world country. We are by far the most wealthy country this world has ever seen and I do not believe are going to be overtaken anytime soon. People continue to flock here because the opportunities are so great. No other country can hold that claim.

Actually, we're not the most wealthy country in the world per capita. Exact positions vary, but we tend to hang out around 6th.We're usually behind Luxembourg (first with an average $68,800 GDP), Equatorial Guinea (second with an average $50,200 GDP), United Aram Emirates (third with $49,700 average GDP), Norway (fourth, average GDP: $47,800), and Ireland (fifth with a $43,600 average GDP). The US has a $43,500 average GDP. That's $25,300 less than first place. We've a long way to go.

Education? Well, I think we all agree NCLB was the worst thing in the history of education. If I go on anymore, I'm going to get on a Bush-bashing tangent, and unfortunately I won't be able to excuse my French.

Gun control I'm very torn about. I think we should have the right to bear arms, but I can't help but feel this right has led to the many shootings and fatalities of our day. I don't have much info on this either.

NCLB...ugh. That's all I'm sayin'.

Gun control....eh. I'm in the same position you are. I feel that we should all have the right to own a gun, but I also think it is what leads to so many of the shootings in this country.

I'm a Divaaaaa
10-23-2008, 10:53 PM
Right now, a FAFSA loan is next to impossible to secure. Hundreds of students promised FAFSA loans to go to BC and BU were suddenly denied them right before term started. They're now scrambling to pay for college. Working hard in school =/= scholarship every time. I'm top 15% in my class, an honors student across the board, yet I probably won't qualify for any scholarship money at all.



I see welfare and food stamps as handouts by that definition. If they need them, they must not be working hard enough, so why even bother giving them out? Some people need those to get by. If you want to know exactly how hard somebody can work and still need those and to be extraordinarily thankful for a handout like the rebate check, go read "Nickled and Dimed" by Laura Schlissinger. For every person just sitting around doing nothing and mooching off government money, there's probably two working 60 hours a week just to put food on the table.



Actually, we're not the most wealthy country in the world per capita. Exact positions vary, but we tend to hang out around 6th.We're usually behind Luxembourg (first with an average $68,800 GDP), Equatorial Guinea (second with an average $50,200 GDP), United Aram Emirates (third with $49,700 average GDP), Norway (fourth, average GDP: $47,800), and Ireland (fifth with a $43,600 average GDP). The US has a $43,500 average GDP. That's $25,300 less than first place. We've a long way to go.



NCLB...ugh. That's all I'm sayin'.

Gun control....eh. I'm in the same position you are. I feel that we should all have the right to own a gun, but I also think it is what leads to so many of the shootings in this country.


this. :thumbsup2

JulielovesDisney
10-24-2008, 01:59 PM
I just votedd!! I recieved my absentee ballot this morning and I just put it in the mailbox after lunch today!! I feel so important!!!
Let's go Obama-Biden!!

Sparx
10-24-2008, 04:32 PM
Right now, a FAFSA loan is next to impossible to secure. Hundreds of students promised FAFSA loans to go to BC and BU were suddenly denied them right before term started. They're now scrambling to pay for college. Working hard in school =/= scholarship every time. I'm top 15% in my class, an honors student across the board, yet I probably won't qualify for any scholarship money at all.



I see welfare and food stamps as handouts by that definition. If they need them, they must not be working hard enough, so why even bother giving them out? Some people need those to get by. If you want to know exactly how hard somebody can work and still need those and to be extraordinarily thankful for a handout like the rebate check, go read "Nickled and Dimed" by Laura Schlissinger. For every person just sitting around doing nothing and mooching off government money, there's probably two working 60 hours a week just to put food on the table.



Actually, we're not the most wealthy country in the world per capita. Exact positions vary, but we tend to hang out around 6th.We're usually behind Luxembourg (first with an average $68,800 GDP), Equatorial Guinea (second with an average $50,200 GDP), United Aram Emirates (third with $49,700 average GDP), Norway (fourth, average GDP: $47,800), and Ireland (fifth with a $43,600 average GDP). The US has a $43,500 average GDP. That's $25,300 less than first place. We've a long way to go.



NCLB...ugh. That's all I'm sayin'.

Gun control....eh. I'm in the same position you are. I feel that we should all have the right to own a gun, but I also think it is what leads to so many of the shootings in this country.

if me and you team up, and take over the world, we could fix everything in about twenty minutes.

imabrat
10-24-2008, 04:41 PM
if me and you team up, and take over the world, we could fix everything in about twenty minutes.

Shelby, as sad as this sounds, I really think you could. Our country is in such a pathetic state, even an infant would know how to fix things.

Sparx
10-24-2008, 04:47 PM
Shelby, as sad as this sounds, I really think you could. Our country is in such a pathetic state, even an infant would know how to fix things.

nah. it'd be really complex. the entire way things run need to be thrown out the window and rewritten. particularly the social security, public education, and welfare systems. i have big issues with all of those. plus our foreign affairs are in the tubes. that needs to be fixed.

but again, me and patti, it could happen in about thirty minutes. :p

shelby/patti 08
:D

Sparx
10-24-2008, 04:53 PM
How does the old saying go?
Professionals built the Titanic. Amateurs built the Ark.

this is inscribed on the inside of my class ring. "noah built the ark"

the saying is:
"don't be afraid to try new things. professionals built the titanic; noah built the ark"

Sparx
10-24-2008, 04:56 PM
I'm with my parents, on the fact that, why should someone who doesn't work nearly as hard and as much as my parents do to support their family get the same health care as us? Like my parents work their ***** off to do what's best for our family. And there's people who just...don't. So why should they get equal healthcare if they're not working equally as hard?

because we're human.

humans have basic, unalienable rights. and the right to live healthily is among those. your social status, your job, your outside life should not matter when it comes to health care. health care is something we all need to live. like food and water. i deserve it just as much as you do. no matter my job.

pitt02
10-24-2008, 05:34 PM
U no how you fix it less government and even though i support McCain he wants to make the government bigger than what it is now but at least its not as big as Obama.

Axel
10-24-2008, 09:22 PM
if me and you team up, and take over the world, we could fix everything in about twenty minutes.

YEAH!!!!

Shelby/Patti '08.

Vote for it. You know you wanna.

Sparx
10-24-2008, 11:30 PM
YEAH!!!!

Shelby/Patti '08.

Vote for it. You know you wanna.
write us in!

Disney.Ears
10-25-2008, 08:05 AM
because we're human.

humans have basic, unalienable rights. and the right to live healthily is among those. your social status, your job, your outside life should not matter when it comes to health care. health care is something we all need to live. like food and water. i deserve it just as much as you do. no matter my job.

Like I said in posts after that original one, I think everyone deserves healthcare. But when it comes down to comparing what 2 people do, and how their income turns out, they shouldn't necessarily get the same quality of healhcare.

imabrat
10-25-2008, 09:38 AM
Like I said in posts after that original one, I think everyone deserves healthcare. But when it comes down to comparing what 2 people do, and how their income turns out, they shouldn't necessarily get the same quality of healhcare.

Again, why?
Spin the story around.
God Forbid, your dad lost his $250,000 a year job at ABC with BCBS insurance. Now he works a $50,000 a year job with DEF and COBRA insurance. Now he's diagnosed with MS. You think just because he works somewhere else he shouldn't be eligible for top-notch healthcare?

Ppufi
10-25-2008, 09:44 AM
I agree with Sonya. Everyone should have health care. Getting terminally ill isn't normally something you can protect yourself from, and ANYONE can get it. From the working single mom raising three kids on 300 dollars a month, to the rich corporate giant who makes 300 dollars an hour, we all are the same in the eyes of diseases. Therefore, we should all be allowed to receive the same healthcare.

Disney.Ears
10-25-2008, 09:48 AM
Again, why?
Spin the story around.
God Forbid, your dad lost his $250,000 a year job at ABC with BCBS insurance. Now he works a $50,000 a year job with DEF and COBRA insurance. Now he's diagnosed with MS. You think just because he works somewhere else he shouldn't be eligible for top-notch healthcare?

My dad isn't someone who would just stay at a $50,000 job knowing he can achieve more success. He would work hard to get back what he lost. Some people don't care, and are lazy sometimes. So why should they be on the same level that my dad has worked really hard for over the years?

I'm a Divaaaaa
10-25-2008, 01:12 PM
My dad isn't someone who would just stay at a $50,000 job knowing he can achieve more success. He would work hard to get back what he lost. Some people don't care, and are lazy sometimes. So why should they be on the same level that my dad has worked really hard for over the years?

You sound really naive to the amount of available jobs right now. Chances are, especially now, that getting a better job again wouldn't come that easily. It may happen after a year or so but hypothetically speaking if the disease takes a nasty turn during that "off-year" then I guess that's just too bad, huh?

Disney.Ears
10-25-2008, 02:39 PM
You sound really naive to the amount of available jobs right now. Chances are, especially now, that getting a better job again wouldn't come that easily. It may happen after a year or so but hypothetically speaking if the disease takes a nasty turn during that "off-year" then I guess that's just too bad, huh?

This is honestly confusing the crap out of me. :/
I don't know...

Axel
10-25-2008, 08:03 PM
My dad isn't someone who would just stay at a $50,000 job knowing he can achieve more success. He would work hard to get back what he lost. Some people don't care, and are lazy sometimes. So why should they be on the same level that my dad has worked really hard for over the years?

What about people who are working at a job they love, even if it doesn't pay a ton of money?

How about teachers? Let's use them as an example.

Teachers in my SAU make about $40k-$45k a year on average. If every teacher in the world suddenly stopped working as a teacher and chose to work as something else just because it paid more and thus they could afford better medical insurance, where would we be?

I, personally, think that teachers should automatically get the best healthcare anyone can get. Where would we be without them? Where would we be without our postmen? Our construction crews/contractors? Our car manufacturers? Our factory employees? They're the basis of our economy and without people like them, we are nothing. Give them the best. The country doesn't need 100,000 brain surgeons. This country needs 100,000 people doing what they love without having to worry about affording healthcare.

imabrat
10-25-2008, 10:16 PM
My dad isn't someone who would just stay at a $50,000 job knowing he can achieve more success. He would work hard to get back what he lost. Some people don't care, and are lazy sometimes. So why should they be on the same level that my dad has worked really hard for over the years?

Because disease spares no age, race, or sex. That's why. I think it's inhumane to deny someone top-notch healthcare because of their job status. If it happened to you or anyone you love, I bet you'd (general you) change your opinion.

DisneyTeen2592
10-25-2008, 10:17 PM
Obama 08!!!!

STOPxmickeytime
10-26-2008, 12:06 AM
My dad isn't someone who would just stay at a $50,000 job knowing he can achieve more success. He would work hard to get back what he lost. Some people don't care, and are lazy sometimes. So why should they be on the same level that my dad has worked really hard for over the years?

First off, I want to just say, I'm not trying to make you feel bad about being naive and not really knowing what you're talking about.
Because, a couple of months ago, I might have said exactly what you did. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way.

My dad worked at Merrill Lynch for, what, maybe 30 years?
He had a really solid salary and we live in a good, safe town. We had great insurance (BCBS) and everything was fine and dandy and all rainbows and butterflies.

Unfortunately, the economy finally caught up with the whole "Who cares if I don't have the money? I've got CREDIT!" mentality.
Merrill Lynch downsized. SERIOUSLY downsized.
And where'd they start cutting people? The higher up, with the higher salaries. Which, on a logical level, makes sense. But, these were also the people who had been working there the longest and had shown the most dedication and commitment.

Regardless, my dad got laid off. When I first heard that, I was like, "Man, that sucks for Dad. But he'll get a new job and then we'll be right back to the rainbows and butterflies."
Except, the aforementioned sucky economy isn't so much helping with that.
My dad's been looking for jobs EVERYWHERE. And there's NOTHING.

Not only that, but Merrill Lynch dropped his insurance coverage.
One of my little sisters and my older brother both have inner ear problems. I have expensive medication. My mom has high cholesterol. My dad has congestive heart failure and Diabetes, and requires constant medical attention.
Because of this, there's no way that we'd be able to pay out of pocket for medical. So my dad is paying a ridiculous premium each month to keep BCBS.

On top of all that, Merrill Lynch paid my dad his year and a half salary in lump payment.
Which doesn't sound bad. Except since this was over $250,000 (that's an estimation, I don't know the exact amount) in one single amount (which it never would have been had it been paid out normally like it had been in the past), the taxes on it were ridiculous. Like, taxes took about 50% of it.
Because of this, my older brother had to divert his acceptance to his dream school that he tried so hard to get into. He's now going to community college and living in the basement.
My dad's pension and retirement funds were wrapped in the stock market, so my parent's entire future is just in the air.

Honestly, all of that was pretty much a smack in the face for me.
America's been going downhill for a while, and this finally pulled me out of the "no, we're fine" bubble.

I'm for whoever will actually change the country.
Fix the economy, bring more jobs, and get equal health-care for EVERYONE. Because things can just change in a second.

I honestly believe Obama's the best bet for the job.
I just hope those weren't hot-air political promises and he follows through. It's going to be a tough job.

Sparx
10-26-2008, 12:23 AM
First off, I want to just say, I'm not trying to make you feel bad about being naive and not really knowing what you're talking about.
Because, a couple of months ago, I might have said exactly what you did. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way.

My dad worked at Merrill Lynch for, what, maybe 30 years?
He had a really solid salary and we live in a good, safe town. We had great insurance (BCBS) and everything was fine and dandy and all rainbows and butterflies.

Unfortunately, the economy finally caught up with the whole "Who cares if I don't have the money? I've got CREDIT!" mentality.
Merrill Lynch downsized. SERIOUSLY downsized.
And where'd they start cutting people? The higher up, with the higher salaries. Which, on a logical level, makes sense. But, these were also the people who had been working there the longest and had shown the most dedication and commitment.

Regardless, my dad got laid off. When I first heard that, I was like, "Man, that sucks for Dad. But he'll get a new job and then we'll be right back to the rainbows and butterflies."
Except, the aforementioned sucky economy isn't so much helping with that.
My dad's been looking for jobs EVERYWHERE. And there's NOTHING.

Not only that, but Merrill Lynch dropped his insurance coverage.
One of my little sisters and my older brother both have inner ear problems. I have expensive medication. My mom has high cholesterol. My dad has congestive heart failure and Diabetes, and requires constant medical attention.
Because of this, there's no way that we'd be able to pay out of pocket for medical. So my dad is paying a ridiculous premium each month to keep BCBS.

On top of all that, Merrill Lynch paid my dad his year and a half salary in lump payment.
Which doesn't sound bad. Except since this was over $250,000 (that's an estimation, I don't know the exact amount) in one single amount (which it never would have been had it been paid out normally like it had been in the past), the taxes on it were ridiculous. Like, taxes took about 50% of it.
Because of this, my older brother had to divert his acceptance to his dream school that he tried so hard to get into. He's now going to community college and living in the basement.
My dad's pension and retirement funds were wrapped in the stock market, so my parent's entire future is just in the air.

Honestly, all of that was pretty much a smack in the face for me.
America's been going downhill for a while, and this finally pulled me out of the "no, we're fine" bubble.

I'm for whoever will actually change the country.
Fix the economy, bring more jobs, and get equal health-care for EVERYONE. Because things can just change in a second.

I honestly believe Obama's the best bet for the job.
I just hope those weren't hot-air political promises and he follows through. It's going to be a tough job.

anyone who says, 'money can't buy happiness' has never been poor.
maybe money can't buy happiness, but it can buy food, pay the bills, and buy house. its hard to be happy when you're starving.

i completely understand where you're coming from, and thats why i completely disagree with the girl who believes she deserves more health care than i do because her dad works a better job than my mom does.

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 12:26 AM
am i just stupid or if everyone had top-notch healthcare for a minimal price, wouldnt people go to the doctor for every scrape and cut? i mean people living off food stamps and welfare could afford it. So if i was them i'd just go to the doctor for everything i mean why not? Even though there is people with broken legs and concussions coming in and hospitals cant fit them in cause there is no open room for a check-up.

and anyone who thinks im naive and doesnt think i've experienced living in welfare and food stamps, think again. Even though i didn't my grandpa and grandma did for several years, where for christmas my dad would get used toys. Now my grandpa and grandma are living really comfortably. If you set your mind on a goal and really work for it, chances you are going to achieve it.

STOPxmickeytime
10-26-2008, 12:31 AM
I completely agree, Shelby.

And addicted.to.speed, I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
I don't think that universal solid health care for everyone would make people flood to the doctor complaining about minor headaches and things of that nature. I mean, I'm assuming that you have decent or fair health care. Do you run to the doctor when you get a paper cut?
I've always had good health care, and when I go to the doctor it's for legitamate health reasons. I don't know why you'd think that people on welfare wouldn't.

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 12:34 AM
hmm maybe cause a box of band aids would be more expensive? and plus you can have top-notch healthcare!!!! TOP-NOTCH, why would anyone pass that up?

thats like asking do you want coach or first class seats on a plane for the same price, i can tell you i'd defintaly take first class!

STOPxmickeytime
10-26-2008, 12:40 AM
You're not taking into account transportation to the doctor, missed work time (which for people with jobs that are paid hourly is a real problem), and the fact that you're underestimating how much the cost actually is.

And I don't think your analogy really applies.
Going to the doctor because you have a headache or just choosing some Advil, like most people would, regardless of what healthcare they have, isn't a matter of luxury. It's just easier. Even if you take cost out of the equation.

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 12:48 AM
same can be said about buying advil. Cost to go to store, missed work its the same thing.

Its about getting something better for the same price as getting something worse.

and plus knocking down healthcare prices, means that the business isn't making as much, thus having to cut more jobs...no?

Axel
10-26-2008, 09:17 AM
Nobody I know would go to the doctor for every cut or bruise. They'd just do what they've always done- put a bandaid on it or take an Advil.

But the people I know that have ignored broken bones and dislocated joints because they couldn't afford to go to the doctor could go if healthcare was equal.

And before you start acting all high and mighty because your grandparents lived on food stamps when your dad was a kid, think again. Mine did, too. They had a garden as big as the back yard. My grandmother worked 2 jobs and my grandfather worked hours away from home for several winters because that was the best paying job he could get. My mom and her 3 siblings walked 2 miles to school every day, rain or shine, just like those stereotypical "5 miles in the snow" stories you hear in movies. My mom baby sat every time she could. She joined the Air Force right out of high school because her family needed the money to get by. She gave up any dream of college she might have had. My dad worked jobs since he was 11 just to have cash for his family. His mom worked 2 jobs and his dad worked 2 as well.

Even now, my aunt is unemployed. She was laid off from one job, then went to work at a bank with collections. My aunt isn't the kind of person that can just waltz into somebody's house and ask for payment in whatever for possible, so she had to quit because she couldn't handle it emotionally. She's been looking for a job for months now, but nobody is hiring. Does that mean that my cousin with behavioural problems shouldn't get her meds? That my youngest cousin (just over a year) shouldn't get the breathing medication she needs?

Your dad's situation wasn't unique in any way. People today go through worse.

pitt02
10-26-2008, 09:23 AM
healthcare cannot be equal it is honestly impossible where is all the money coming from to get these people top of the line innsurance cause they dont have the money to pay for it.

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 09:28 AM
Nobody I know would go to the doctor for every cut or bruise. They'd just do what they've always done- put a bandaid on it or take an Advil.

But the people I know that have ignored broken bones and dislocated joints because they couldn't afford to go to the doctor could go if healthcare was equal.

And before you start acting all high and mighty because your grandparents lived on food stamps when your dad was a kid, think again. Mine did, too. They had a garden as big as the back yard. My grandmother worked 2 jobs and my grandfather worked hours away from home for several winters because that was the best paying job he could get. My mom and her 3 siblings walked 2 miles to school every day, rain or shine, just like those stereotypical "5 miles in the snow" stories you hear in movies. My mom baby sat every time she could. She joined the Air Force right out of high school because her family needed the money to get by. She gave up any dream of college she might have had. My dad worked jobs since he was 11 just to have cash for his family. His mom worked 2 jobs and his dad worked 2 as well.

Even now, my aunt is unemployed. She was laid off from one job, then went to work at a bank with collections. My aunt isn't the kind of person that can just waltz into somebody's house and ask for payment in whatever for possible, so she had to quit because she couldn't handle it emotionally. She's been looking for a job for months now, but nobody is hiring. Does that mean that my cousin with behavioural problems shouldn't get her meds? That my youngest cousin (just over a year) shouldn't get the breathing medication she needs?

Your dad's situation wasn't unique in any way. People today go through worse.

Well, there are a lot of people you dont know so you cant make a generalization of who would go to the doctor for scrapes and cuts.

I'm sorry for your friends that couldn't go to the doctor because they didn't have healthcare, but healthcare supports lots of jobs...no?

And I'm not acting all high and mighty im just merely putting out the facts. I know that if i didnt say that, someone would come on these boards and be like, "Have you ever experienced living in welfare and food stamps?!" so i was just trying to avoid that discussion. Sorry if i sound big headed.

No, they should get their medication. They need support from their family, like you, to lend them money in their time of crisis. But im sure you and your family are already supporting them...right?

Actually it may not be unique to you, but my grandparents came over from Latvia during WWII with the Nazi's cause the Russians were going to invade Latvia and the Nazi's wanted to piss the Russisans off. I think thats pretty cool and unique.

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 12:34 PM
Well, there are a lot of people you dont know so you cant make a generalization of who would go to the doctor for scrapes and cuts.

I'm sorry for your friends that couldn't go to the doctor because they didn't have healthcare, but healthcare supports lots of jobs...no?

And I'm not acting all high and mighty im just merely putting out the facts. I know that if i didnt say that, someone would come on these boards and be like, "Have you ever experienced living in welfare and food stamps?!" so i was just trying to avoid that discussion. Sorry if i sound big headed.

No, they should get their medication. They need support from their family, like you, to lend them money in their time of crisis. But im sure you and your family are already supporting them...right?

Actually it may not be unique to you, but my grandparents came over from Latvia during WWII with the Nazi's cause the Russians were going to invade Latvia and the Nazi's wanted to piss the Russisans off. I think thats pretty cool and unique.

Don't generalize that a lot of people would go to the doctor for cuts and scrapes. Because honestly, some people would..but most people wouldnt. They have better things to do with their time. And I thought your statement saying that a box of bandaids to a welfare person would be to expensive was very rude. You've never experienced welfare FIRST HAND.

Shelby, if someone has said "money can't buy happiness" that doesn't mean they havent been poor. Both my mom and I have said it countless times, and we aren't exactly middle class. It just means we have the strength as a family to get through these hard times and we don't need material items to be happy. :rolleyes:


ETA; I'd rather have a doctor work on me who was in it for helping people, not in it for the money. Some doctors actually do that, y'know.

Sparx
10-26-2008, 02:27 PM
i'm not getting into an argument over who has it worst (or god forbid who's grandparents had it worst, because that is completely irrelevant)

flat out, if you think you deserve better health care than me because your mommy has a better job than my mommy, you're in need of a step into the real world.

health care isn't a status symbol.

crazytp93
10-26-2008, 02:58 PM
healthcare cannot be equal it is honestly impossible where is all the money coming from to get these people top of the line innsurance cause they dont have the money to pay for it.

My dad isn't someone who would just stay at a $50,000 job knowing he can achieve more success. He would work hard to get back what he lost. Some people don't care, and are lazy sometimes. So why should they be on the same level that my dad has worked really hard for over the years?

I must agree.

A person who worked hard deserves quality health insurance.

But a person who's very smart, has a college education, and being lazy, does not deserve full health insurance. (Just an example)

I'll elaborate more later.

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 03:05 PM
I must agree.

A person who worked hard deserves quality health insurance.

But a person who's very smart, has a college education, and being lazy, does not deserve full health insurance. (Just an example)

I'll elaborate more later.

Who are you to say that someone does not deserve full health insurance? If it was you or someone you loved who was told "No you can't have this health care because you don't have the same job as this guy." I bet you would be pretty upset.

I think everyone should have the same healthcare, if you want more or extras then you can pay for it.

Oh..and a lot of people work hard. A maid works hard and so does a brain surgeon. A garbage man works hard and so does a dentist. Just because you may think 1 is a higher status and a more respectable job doesn't mean they should be denied the same healthcare as you.

Axel
10-26-2008, 05:32 PM
Well, there are a lot of people you dont know so you cant make a generalization of who would go to the doctor for scrapes and cuts.

I'm sorry for your friends that couldn't go to the doctor because they didn't have healthcare, but healthcare supports lots of jobs...no?

And I'm not acting all high and mighty im just merely putting out the facts. I know that if i didnt say that, someone would come on these boards and be like, "Have you ever experienced living in welfare and food stamps?!" so i was just trying to avoid that discussion. Sorry if i sound big headed.

No, they should get their medication. They need support from their family, like you, to lend them money in their time of crisis. But im sure you and your family are already supporting them...right?

Actually it may not be unique to you, but my grandparents came over from Latvia during WWII with the Nazi's cause the Russians were going to invade Latvia and the Nazi's wanted to piss the Russisans off. I think thats pretty cool and unique.

I apologize for any rudeness in my previous post.

And we're giving them support, but right now our priority is making sure they can heat their home this winter.

It's hard to get by right now. And you just said that they should get their medication. By what I've been reading (and how I've interpreted it), they're not working hard enough to earn healthcare that would cover meds like that. Right now my aunt and uncle have no insurance and the state doesn't give good insurance to kids. The Healthy Kids program they're on (because my uncle apparently makes too much to qualify for the one they need) covers something like 1 doctor's visit a year and has a $50 co-pay. Right now, they're swamped in bills from Miranda's (my 1 year old cousin) surgeries earlier in the year to help her breathe. As much as my family tries to help, we're not exactly rollin' in it, either. We give what we can to them, but it's not nearly enough. We're all worried about heating our own houses this winter.

And as for having less jobs, I don't think there would be. The way I would do it would actually create jobs because part of what I think needs to be done is to make that healthcare easily accessible, so we'd need more places for people to go, so we'd need more people working.

Axel
10-26-2008, 05:34 PM
I must agree.

A person who worked hard deserves quality health insurance.

But a person who's very smart, has a college education, and being lazy, does not deserve full health insurance. (Just an example)

I'll elaborate more later.

What if that was a person whose very smart, has a college education, and can't find a job?

Many teachers aren't doing what they went to college for because they need money to pay for things like health insurance. That's part of the reason there's a teacher shortage in this country. They're not being paid enough and they're not being given good enough benefits to make it worthwile.

imabrat
10-26-2008, 06:13 PM
I must agree.

A person who worked hard deserves quality health insurance.

But a person who's very smart, has a college education, and being lazy, does not deserve full health insurance. (Just an example)

I'll elaborate more later.

Yanno, I think anyone who supports this mentality needs a swift kick in the rear on a one way ticket to the real world.
God Forbid it happened to anyone who supports it, I bet you your healthcare plan you'd be changing your tune faster than I can say Aetna.

JMO.

pitt02
10-26-2008, 06:19 PM
Sparx wanna talk about stepping out into the real world, as good as it sounds that everyone gets the same healthcare, lets just say i have healthcare and lets just say your cousin doesnt. I already pay for my healthcare why should I spend my hard earned money paying for someones healthcare that I dont even know at all. How fair is that. Of course I want everyone to have healthcare but I also want everyone to have a house but it just isnt going to be able to happen.

imabrat
10-26-2008, 06:23 PM
Sparx wanna talk about stepping out into the real world, as good as it sounds that everyone gets the same healthcare, lets just say i have healthcare and lets just say your cousin doesnt. I already pay for my healthcare why should I spend my hard earned money paying for someones healthcare that I dont even know at all. How fair is that. Of course I want everyone to have healthcare but I also want everyone to have a house but it just isnt going to be able to happen.


Then how do you feel about giving food/money/etc. to homeless? I mean, they got themselves there, they can get themselves out right?
What about food banks?

With these, essentially your money is going to help others. I see it as compassion for another human. I'm not saying these situations are the same, but they're pretty dang alike.

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 06:27 PM
Sparx wanna talk about stepping out into the real world, as good as it sounds that everyone gets the same healthcare, lets just say i have healthcare and lets just say your cousin doesnt. I already pay for my healthcare why should I spend my hard earned money paying for someones healthcare that I dont even know at all. How fair is that. Of course I want everyone to have healthcare but I also want everyone to have a house but it just isnt going to be able to happen.

When you begin to pay taxes your paying for other people. Your paying for the road to be paved, for police cars, for education, to keep prisoners happy in prison. Do you have a problem with that too?:confused3

Sparx
10-26-2008, 06:29 PM
Sparx wanna talk about stepping out into the real world, as good as it sounds that everyone gets the same healthcare, lets just say i have healthcare and lets just say your cousin doesnt. I already pay for my healthcare why should I spend my hard earned money paying for someones healthcare that I dont even know at all. How fair is that. Of course I want everyone to have healthcare but I also want everyone to have a house but it just isnt going to be able to happen.

do you have a job? because i do. every time i get paid, a portion of my money doesn't go to me. it goes to social security checks, public education, and a ton of other stuff that helps people i don't know. it called taxes. and socialized medicine would happen the same way.

socialized medicine is in several major countries around the world. it is nothing more than sheer ignorance to say that it couldn't happen in america. the only thing that is keeping everyone from having equal health care is people with an attitude like yours.

pitt02
10-26-2008, 06:30 PM
Ya but you have control of how much you give to those, with healthcare the money they are going to need is going to be huge; were complaining about taxes now if that goes through just wait taxes will double maybe even triple.

disneydance
10-26-2008, 06:32 PM
Obama hes currently winning all the polls
Also if we choose Mccain we will have just chosen a walking talking Bush

pitt02
10-26-2008, 06:33 PM
And yes i have a job and if healthcare goes through instead of payday i will be paying them to work.

Ms.Squeakers
10-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Obama hes currently winning all the polls
Also if we choose Mccain we will have just chosen a walking talking Bush

Oh how much of an opinion THAT is.

Comparing McCain to Bush is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!

Im sorry, but thats not a true statement at all.

Just because they are both republican doesn't mean he will be just like bush.

That's NOT fact, thats an opinion, which i do not believe in.

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 06:47 PM
Oh how much of an opinion THAT is.

Comparing McCain to Bush is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!

Im sorry, but thats not a true statement at all.

Just because they are both republican doesn't mean he will be just like bush.

That's NOT fact, thats an opinion, which i do not believe in.

McCain has voted with Bush on the same things 90%.

I think Mccain would be better then Bush, but not by much. JMO.

&& pitt02 taxes will not go up for everyone. Anyone with 250,000$ or a certain amount of income, I forgot what it is, their taxes will go up. Since they can afford the increase in taxes, they should be taxed higher. Again I say, why should someone with a 40,000$ income be forced to pay the same taxes as someone who makes 250,000$?

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 06:50 PM
Don't generalize that a lot of people would go to the doctor for cuts and scrapes. Because honestly, some people would..but most people wouldnt. They have better things to do with their time. And I thought your statement saying that a box of bandaids to a welfare person would be to expensive was very rude. You've never experienced welfare FIRST HAND.



So a box of band-aids would be cheap to them?...i dont know about you, but if i was in welfare, i would say that everything is expensive :confused3

I apologize for any rudeness in my previous post.

And we're giving them support, but right now our priority is making sure they can heat their home this winter.

It's hard to get by right now. And you just said that they should get their medication. By what I've been reading (and how I've interpreted it), they're not working hard enough to earn healthcare that would cover meds like that. Right now my aunt and uncle have no insurance and the state doesn't give good insurance to kids. The Healthy Kids program they're on (because my uncle apparently makes too much to qualify for the one they need) covers something like 1 doctor's visit a year and has a $50 co-pay. Right now, they're swamped in bills from Miranda's (my 1 year old cousin) surgeries earlier in the year to help her breathe. As much as my family tries to help, we're not exactly rollin' in it, either. We give what we can to them, but it's not nearly enough. We're all worried about heating our own houses this winter.

And as for having less jobs, I don't think there would be. The way I would do it would actually create jobs because part of what I think needs to be done is to make that healthcare easily accessible, so we'd need more places for people to go, so we'd need more people working.

Everyone goes through a stage in their life when they are at rock bottom. Everyone has to pull through and usually everything works out perfectly.

Lifes tough, get a helmet :goodvibes

Thats an interesting thought about the jobs. But if we build more buidlings = more money that has to be spent. And I think everyone is trying to keep all the money they can now because it looks like we might be going into another depression.

imabrat
10-26-2008, 06:52 PM
Oh how much of an opinion THAT is.

Comparing McCain to Bush is absolutely RIDICULOUS!!

Im sorry, but thats not a true statement at all.

Just because they are both republican doesn't mean he will be just like bush.

That's NOT fact, thats an opinion, which i do not believe in.

Really? Because McCain has said himself that's he's voted with Bush at least 90% of the time. That 10% doesn't leave much room for change.

imabrat
10-26-2008, 06:57 PM
So a box of band-aids would be cheap to them?...i dont know about you, but if i was in welfare, i would say that everything is expensive :confused3



Everyone goes through a stage in their life when they are at rock bottom. Everyone has to pull through and usually everything works out perfectly.

Lifes tough, get a helmet :goodvibes

Thats an interesting thought about the jobs. But if we build more buidlings = more money that has to be spent. And I think everyone is trying to keep all the money they can now because it looks like we might be going into another depression.

When you're poor, you think about quantity. What's going to last you longer so you can save more and spend less. Box of no-name bandaids (less than $4 for at least 1 month) or one ER visit (hundreds of $$$ for one visit)?

Also, where are you getting the idea we need more buildings. We have plenty of buildings to work in, not enough positions for pay.

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 06:59 PM
McCain has voted with Bush on the same things 90%.

I think Mccain would be better then Bush, but not by much. JMO.

&& pitt02 taxes will not go up for everyone. Anyone with 250,000$ or a certain amount of income, I forgot what it is, their taxes will go up. Since they can afford the increase in taxes, they should be taxed higher. Again I say, why should someone with a 40,000$ income be forced to pay the same taxes as someone who makes 250,000$?

They already do...its called income taxes

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 07:04 PM
When you're poor, you think about quantity. What's going to last you longer so you can save more and spend less. Box of no-name bandaids (less than $4 for at least 1 month) or one ER visit (hundreds of $$$ for one visit)?

Also, where are you getting the idea we need more buildings. We have plenty of buildings to work in, not enough positions for pay.

okay, so refernish the buildings we can say. Because, there is a certain criteria for hospitals and clinics that people need to follow...But its still costing the invester money

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 07:07 PM
So a box of band-aids would be cheap to them?...i dont know about you, but if i was in welfare, i would say that everything is expensive :confused3

You can buy bandaids at the dollar store, usually.

:confused3

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 07:08 PM
They already do...its called income taxes

Uhm, yes I know that. But with Obama's plan he wants to raise the taxes for people who make more income and keep the same taxes for people who make less income.

Didn't I state that before? :confused3

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 07:27 PM
Uhm, yes I know that. But with Obama's plan he wants to raise the taxes for people who make more income and keep the same taxes for people who make less income.

Didn't I state that before? :confused3

Idk, but i think thats total bs

Lets put this into a prospective of gpa.

We have little johnny who works his butt off to get good grades in highschool. He studies for tests somtimes for up to 4 hours a night. He ends up his Sr. year with a gpa of 4.0.

We also have little suzy who doesnt care about school. Goes out partying everynight and has a rough homelife. Thinks shes the hot stuff of the school and she gets a gpa of 3.0.

Now the school board wants to take johnny's hard earned gpa score of a 4.0 and give .3 gpa points away from him and give it to partying suzy. So now johnny have a jpa of 3.7 and suzy has a gpa of 3.3.

Cause no one actually needs a 4.0, they only need a 3.7 :rolleyes:

Sparx
10-26-2008, 07:32 PM
Idk, but i think thats total bs

Lets put this into a prospective of gpa.

We have little johnny who works his butt off to get good grades in highschool. He studies for tests somtimes for up to 4 hours a night. He ends up his Sr. year with a gpa of 4.0.

We also have little suzy who doesnt care about school. Goes out partying everynight and has a rough homelife. Thinks shes the hot stuff of the school and she gets a gpa of 3.0.

Now the school board wants to take johnny's hard earned gpa score of a 4.0 and give .3 gpa points away from him and give it to partying suzy. So now johnny have a jpa of 3.7 and suzy has a gpa of 3.3.

Cause no one actually needs a 4.0, they only need a 3.7 :rolleyes:
oh please.

Addicted.to.Speed
10-26-2008, 07:35 PM
oh please.

tell me the difference please

imabrat
10-26-2008, 07:36 PM
tell me the difference please

gpa = non-necessity.
money - necessity.

Tinkerbell424
10-26-2008, 07:36 PM
Idk, but i think thats total bs

Lets put this into a prospective of gpa.

We have little johnny who works his butt off to get good grades in highschool. He studies for tests somtimes for up to 4 hours a night. He ends up his Sr. year with a gpa of 4.0.

We also have little suzy who doesnt care about school. Goes out partying everynight and has a rough homelife. Thinks shes the hot stuff of the school and she gets a gpa of 3.0.

Now the school board wants to take johnny's hard earned gpa score of a 4.0 and give .3 gpa points away from him and give it to partying suzy. So now johnny have a jpa of 3.7 and suzy has a gpa of 3.3.

Cause no one actually needs a 4.0, they only need a 3.7 :rolleyes:


:rolleyes:

I think it's total BS that we should make someone who makes $250,000 pay the same taxes as someone who makes $40,000. But that person who makes $40,000 shouldnt have the same healthcare as the person who makes $250,000 either, right? Because that person who makes $40,000 obviously doesn't work as hard as that person making $250,000.

Yeah..alright. :rolleyes:

PinkLadyBug
10-26-2008, 07:43 PM
McCain

I think Obama is going to win, but I really would rather have McCain win!!!

STOPxmickeytime
10-26-2008, 07:57 PM
Idk, but i think thats total bs

Lets put this into a prospective of gpa.

We have little johnny who works his butt off to get good grades in highschool. He studies for tests somtimes for up to 4 hours a night. He ends up his Sr. year with a gpa of 4.0.

We also have little suzy who doesnt care about school. Goes out partying everynight and has a rough homelife. Thinks shes the hot stuff of the school and she gets a gpa of 3.0.

Now the school board wants to take johnny's hard earned gpa score of a 4.0 and give .3 gpa points away from him and give it to partying suzy. So now johnny have a jpa of 3.7 and suzy has a gpa of 3.3.

Cause no one actually needs a 4.0, they only need a 3.7 :rolleyes:

Oh, perfect example.
Because the amount of income that someone earns is a direct result of how hard they work.

Let's compare.
Well-to-do office worker. Works the typical 9-5.
OR
Lower class worker struggling to support their family that puts in 72 hours a week just to bring food to the table.

The office worker makes nearly double that of the lower class worker, and yet exerts less than half of the energy than the lower class worker.

Your "Little Johnny" and "Partying Suzy" are honestly insulting.

The fact remains:
HEALTHCARE IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.
Who are you to say that just because your parent maybe had a little extra luck or was born into a different class, you deserve the benefit of being able to be healthy? If your mom was bussing at a restaurant and was constantly worried about paying rent, my guess is you'd be singing a different tune.

Since when was someone's health dependent upon how much money they make?

imabrat
10-26-2008, 08:14 PM
I agree Mickey.
I personally find denying healthcare just as inhumane as abortion. I don't get how someone can say abortion is killing a life, but so is denying healthcare. Especially in the elderly.

Axel
10-26-2008, 08:18 PM
Idk, but i think thats total bs

Lets put this into a prospective of gpa.

We have little johnny who works his butt off to get good grades in highschool. He studies for tests somtimes for up to 4 hours a night. He ends up his Sr. year with a gpa of 4.0.

We also have little suzy who doesnt care about school. Goes out partying everynight and has a rough homelife. Thinks shes the hot stuff of the school and she gets a gpa of 3.0.

Now the school board wants to take johnny's hard earned gpa score of a 4.0 and give .3 gpa points away from him and give it to partying suzy. So now johnny have a jpa of 3.7 and suzy has a gpa of 3.3.

Cause no one actually needs a 4.0, they only need a 3.7 :rolleyes:


Give me a second to stop laughing at this comparison. Cause I can reverse it.

I'm a total slacker in school. Mostly in courses I don't like. I don't go out and party or anything, but I also don't study 24/7. I have a 3.7 GPA. My friend, M, studies for 3 hours a night, does all her homework, is an honours student, and has a 3.2. It's not always more hours=higher grades.

Just like it's not always more hours=higher pay.

seaturtledude
10-27-2008, 04:55 PM
Idk, but i think thats total bs

Lets put this into a prospective of gpa.

We have little johnny who works his butt off to get good grades in highschool. He studies for tests somtimes for up to 4 hours a night. He ends up his Sr. year with a gpa of 4.0.

We also have little suzy who doesnt care about school. Goes out partying everynight and has a rough homelife. Thinks shes the hot stuff of the school and she gets a gpa of 3.0.

Now the school board wants to take johnny's hard earned gpa score of a 4.0 and give .3 gpa points away from him and give it to partying suzy. So now johnny have a jpa of 3.7 and suzy has a gpa of 3.3.

Cause no one actually needs a 4.0, they only need a 3.7 :rolleyes:

what if johnny's family is very wealthy, can afford private tutors, and afford a good college for johnny? and suzy's family is very poor, can't afford tutors to help suzy, and college isn't an option? wouldn't that .3 gpa help suzy do better in life?

Sparx
10-27-2008, 05:56 PM
:rolleyes:

I think it's total BS that we should make someone who makes $250,000 pay the same taxes as someone who makes $40,000. But that person who makes $40,000 shouldnt have the same healthcare as the person who makes $250,000 either, right? Because that person who makes $40,000 obviously doesn't work as hard as that person making $250,000.

Yeah..alright. :rolleyes:

if you are making 250k, you're sitting behind a desk.

if you're making 40k, you could be doing anything from sitting behind a desk, to teaching, to working in factory (but i doubt you'd make 40 putting car parts together)

amount of money =/= intensity of labor.

oh, and about your gpa comparison.
i'm a highschool senior AND a college freshman. i take eight classes every day, two college and six highschool. i work my *** off. my gpa is not as high as someone who takes useless gimmie classes. but i work a billion times harder than them. gpa is not a reflection of how hard you work, just like money isn't.

crazytp93
10-27-2008, 06:03 PM
I must agree.

A person who worked hard deserves quality health insurance.

But a person who's very smart, has a college education, and being lazy, does not deserve full health insurance. (Just an example)

I'll elaborate more later.

It was taken out of context.

I'm not going into it more right now.
But I think some programs should be initiated for health care such as...

for single parents who are struggling to provied for their children.

for people have been recently layed off of work, and give them a 6 month period of somewhat of a health insurance while they can find a new job. (6 months is plenty time)

Tinkerbell424
10-27-2008, 06:08 PM
During a recession, 6 monthes is not a lot of time, especially if we are on the way to a depression.

crazytp93
10-27-2008, 06:51 PM
During a recession, 6 monthes is not a lot of time, especially if we are on the way to a depression.

I think 6 months is at least enough time to find a part time job somewhere, no?

Tinkerbell424
10-27-2008, 06:53 PM
I think 6 months is at least enough time to find a part time job somewhere, no?

Oh...okay! I'm sorry...I thought you meant like a full time job.

Sparx
10-27-2008, 06:56 PM
I think 6 months is at least enough time to find a part time job somewhere, no?

i can't find a job to save my life. i have work experience, references, and i've applied at at least 30 places.

people just aren't hiring.

Axel
10-27-2008, 07:25 PM
i can't find a job to save my life. i have work experience, references, and i've applied at at least 30 places.

people just aren't hiring.

This is why I'm glad I live in a tourist trap town. People are always hiring for the tourist seasons. I'm currently applying to about 6 different places looking for seasonal help so I should have a job at least over the winter.

ohdisco
10-27-2008, 08:53 PM
what if johnny's family is very wealthy, can afford private tutors, and afford a good college for johnny? and suzy's family is very poor, can't afford tutors to help suzy, and college isn't an option? wouldn't that .3 gpa help suzy do better in life?

...If college isn't an option, why would the .3 gpa help suzy? Also, there are colleges where 3.0 is a good enough GPA to be accepted. Also, if school isn't high on her priorities (which it doesn't seem like it is), why would it matter anyway?

I'm sorry, but this bullcrap about what is and isn't basic human rights is downright maddening. Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. Marriage is NOT a basic human right. Our basic human rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Just because we are pursuing happiness by means of healthcare or marriage doesn't mean the government has to give it.

By regulating healthcare you're going to cause any doctor worth your time to go to private practice, charge up the ying-yang and make them practically inaccessible to anyone with lower than a six digit income. Look at Canada...they're practically BEGGING the doctors to come back to canada. I'm speaking from the standpoint of someone who can't even get the most expensive health care because I have a pre-existing condition, so regulating healthcare would in some ways benefit me, I'd rather search high and low for a provider who will provide healthcare with a good doctor for me rather than get stuck with a makeshift doctor who didn't know my disease even existed until I came through the door. Also, besides some high-profile retail jobs (think starbucks), what company gives part-time workers healthcare? I'd like to know so I can be hired by them because I've worked in retail for 3 years and I don't know of ANY mall jobs that give part-time workers healthcare benefits. And health benefits have always been dependent on how much money people make. Nobody would be paid if it wasn't. Also, there are SO many different programs for children under the age of 19 to get health care for 20 bucks or less that I don't see how they can even be complaining. I had healthy families and I got everything from kaiser for FREE for 7 bucks a month. I really, really don't think people who actually invested time into their children's healthcare and found deals like that would be stressing so much.

Also, the person who makes 250k in most cases has an exceedingly harder time getting to the position they're in than the person making 40k. People aren't usually just handed jobs that make that money without fighting for it. Usually, 250k jobs are held for people with higher education than undergraduate, and people who've been with the company for a while. It just makes me so mad that people assume that people who make a lot of money don't work at all and that people who don't make a lot of money are struggling to keep food on the table for their family. The inner-city scenario will never work for me. I don't care what environment you live in, you always have a chance to be above and beyond that environment. Colleges are more likely to accept you if you have high grades from an inner-city school and a kick butt essay about the struggles you went through than a yuppie from the suburbs who are using their name to get them into school. We are not in the 50's where whites and status are supreme when it comes to colleges (well, schools such as harvard and yale still have a little bit of that, but most state colleges don't), and colleges are striving for diversity, whether it be race or socioeconomically. Why should I give sympathy to a person who brought children into this world when they couldn't afford it and that's why they're struggling? Or a person who could've achieved a lot more, but used their situations as an excuse to not prosper and that's why their struggling? I think anyone can do anything they put their minds to, but I'm not going to grieve or be ok paying higher taxes for people who didn't even try. Community colleges are making it even easier for people who made mistakes in their past to make up for it. They have classes at all times of the day, and they have television and internet classes, making it virtually impossible to have an excuse not to get an education.

Advice: Go to school, get an education, and then you'll be out of the laborious jobs and into the "desk" work that supposedly all people who make a lot of money work in.
:rolleyes2 please.

imabrat
10-27-2008, 09:45 PM
I'm sorry, but this bullcrap about what is and isn't basic human rights is downright maddening. Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. Marriage is NOT a basic human right. Our basic human rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Just because we are pursuing happiness by means of healthcare or marriage doesn't mean the government has to give it.



Also, the person who makes 250k in most cases has an exceedingly harder time getting to the position they're in than the person making 40k. People aren't usually just handed jobs that make that money without fighting for it. Usually, 250k jobs are held for people with higher education than undergraduate, and people who've been with the company for a while. It just makes me so mad that people assume that people who make a lot of money don't work at all and that people who don't make a lot of money are struggling to keep food on the table for their family. The inner-city scenario will never work for me. I don't care what environment you live in, you always have a chance to be above and beyond that environment. Colleges are more likely to accept you if you have high grades from an inner-city school and a kick butt essay about the struggles you went through than a yuppie from the suburbs who are using their name to get them into school. We are not in the 50's where whites and status are supreme when it comes to colleges (well, schools such as harvard and yale still have a little bit of that, but most state colleges don't), and colleges are striving for diversity, whether it be race or socioeconomically. Why should I give sympathy to a person who brought children into this world when they couldn't afford it and that's why they're struggling? Or a person who could've achieved a lot more, but used their situations as an excuse to not prosper and that's why their struggling? I think anyone can do anything they put their minds to, but I'm not going to grieve or be ok paying higher taxes for people who didn't even try. Community colleges are making it even easier for people who made mistakes in their past to make up for it. They have classes at all times of the day, and they have television and internet classes, making it virtually impossible to have an excuse not to get an education.

Advice: Go to school, get an education, and then you'll be out of the laborious jobs and into the "desk" work that supposedly all people who make a lot of money work in.
:rolleyes2 please.

I'm sorry, what?
Life and the pursuit of happiness are two of our basic human rights. If I wanted to pursue that happiness, what deal is it to you if I want to be happy as a gay or lesbian? It's not harming you is it?
As for healthcare, essentially in some cases you can be denying that person's right to life. Would you like it if the government were to say, oh sorry, we don't legally have to provide you a treatment so you can just go die in that corner over there?

As for your second paragraph, that's not necessarily true. My dad isn't college educated. College was too expensive and his parents were of the mentality "Once you're 18 you're on your own. Bye!". He just celebrated his 20th anniversary at his job. His annual salary? Less that $60,000 a year. Seniority doesn't always give you a higher pay.

pigletgirl
10-27-2008, 09:53 PM
As for college, what about those who aren't cut out to go? Maybe those with learning disabilities who aren't BOOK smart? What can we do for them??

Also in Arizona, they took away all the ESL programs at the schools. Essentially they're letting those who aren't english proficient, fail. It isn't fair to those students, AND it makes the schools look bad. Why can't we provide those to them.

Besides the No Child Left Behind Act, it was one of the other reasons we had the AIMS developed. (Arizona's Instrument to Measure Standards). Its pretty easy if your even just a little bit bright. However, it does pretty much exclude the ESL students.

:headache:

Addicted.to.Speed
10-27-2008, 10:25 PM
Oh, perfect example.
Because the amount of income that someone earns is a direct result of how hard they work.

Let's compare.
Well-to-do office worker. Works the typical 9-5.
OR
Lower class worker struggling to support their family that puts in 72 hours a week just to bring food to the table.

The office worker makes nearly double that of the lower class worker, and yet exerts less than half of the energy than the lower class worker.

Acutally it is, The office worker wasnt just handed the job, he/she had to work for that position and all the hard work they put in makes them have a better life.

The office worker was doing the same jobs as the poor person, once upon a time.

Give me a second to stop laughing at this comparison. Cause I can reverse it.

I'm a total slacker in school. Mostly in courses I don't like. I don't go out and party or anything, but I also don't study 24/7. I have a 3.7 GPA. My friend, M, studies for 3 hours a night, does all her homework, is an honours student, and has a 3.2. It's not always more hours=higher grades.

Just like it's not always more hours=higher pay.

Thats not the point. Its to show that its not fair that people achieve better grades and yet they still have to help out the rest of the world. Well maybe your honors student M should drop of honors?! that might help her a little. Or maybe she can study a little bit longer.

The more time you put in school, the chance of succeding in life is greater

what if johnny's family is very wealthy, can afford private tutors, and afford a good college for johnny? and suzy's family is very poor, can't afford tutors to help suzy, and college isn't an option? wouldn't that .3 gpa help suzy do better in life?

It would, but it is dentromental to johnny's succuess



And sparx, my brother is in 5 college classes and 2 regular and he is a senior in highschool. So before you think your all high and mighty, my brother is doubling your work load. He puts in the time and effort and yes some kids get a high gpa than he does because of the "gimmie classes". Most colleges look at class rank which is determined generally by weighted gpa, so these gimmie classes are penalized.

ohdisco, nice post :thumbsup2

ohdisco
10-28-2008, 02:56 AM
I'm sorry, what?
Life and the pursuit of happiness are two of our basic human rights. If I wanted to pursue that happiness, what deal is it to you if I want to be happy as a gay or lesbian? It's not harming you is it?
As for healthcare, essentially in some cases you can be denying that person's right to life. Would you like it if the government were to say, oh sorry, we don't legally have to provide you a treatment so you can just go die in that corner over there?

As for your second paragraph, that's not necessarily true. My dad isn't college educated. College was too expensive and his parents were of the mentality "Once you're 18 you're on your own. Bye!". He just celebrated his 20th anniversary at his job. His annual salary? Less that $60,000 a year. Seniority doesn't always give you a higher pay.

I never said that I had a problem with you (or anyone for that matter) being gay or lesbian. I said the government doesn't HAVE to allow you to get married because it's not a basic human right. Heck, they could ban ALL marriage if they really wanted to. Also, "life" in those terms means they can't kill you for an invalid reason, it doesn't mean they have to provide you with the care to keep that life. By the way, all health care plans (yes, even government run healthcare plans like medi-cal) have said, "No, we don't have to provide you with treatment for your disease because your disease was pre-existing when you asked for the plan" so please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Healthcare, while it is a very nice perk, is definitely NOT a basic human right...seeing as there are 80 million people in the United States that don't have it.

Also, if you had read everything I said, I stated that higher paying jobs were for people who ARE college educated AND have been with the company for a long time. People who are college educated can sometimes get pretty high paying jobs without being with the company for a while, but being with the company for a while doesn't guarantee you high wages.

seaturtledude
10-28-2008, 04:59 PM
...If college isn't an option, why would the .3 gpa help suzy?

many places look at your high school gpa when you apply for a job.

KidGoofy
10-28-2008, 05:04 PM
I have a question what is Obama's "Change"...he still hasn't told us yet. Because if his change is that he is black than that is a stupid change. We need a President who will be fair and the public needs to stop putting blame on others.

seaturtledude
10-28-2008, 05:09 PM
I have a question what is Obama's "Change"...he still hasn't told us yet. Because if his change is that he is black than that is a stupid change. We need a President who will be fair and the public needs to stop putting blame on others.

1.tax cuts to 95% of america
2. no war

notokay
10-28-2008, 05:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRmey2WvWnw

I don't want a crazy in the office, thank you very much.
Besides, I simply can't stand Palin. She'll let her religion guide everything she does, which is BAD. Obama seems religious but it seems like he won't let his religious views get in the way of him being president.

ohdisco
10-28-2008, 05:27 PM
many places look at your high school gpa when you apply for a job.

But it really isn't a huge factor in getting the job though.

KidGoofy
10-28-2008, 05:28 PM
But I dont think you realize Democrats are known for taxing people.

And there was a reason for a war. Bush got a hint about Nuclear Weapons and he was trying to keep us safe and when we found out there were none we were asked to stay there and help rehabilitate the country

imabrat
10-28-2008, 05:48 PM
But I dont think you realize Democrats are known for taxing people.

And there was a reason for a war. Bush got a hint about Nuclear Weapons and he was trying to keep us safe and when we found out there were none we were asked to stay there and help rehabilitate the country

I think taxes are a small price to pay with standardized healthcare. So what you have to pay more taxes, at least you can rest easy knowing that God Forbid, something happens to you, you're safe.

Bull excrement to your last paragraph. We stuck our nose where it didn't belong. I can tell you that, foreigners can tell you that, everyone can tell you that.

notokay
10-28-2008, 06:39 PM
I think taxes are a small price to pay with standardized healthcare. So what you have to pay more taxes, at least you can rest easy knowing that God Forbid, something happens to you, you're safe.

Bull excrement to your last paragraph. We stuck our nose where it didn't belong. I can tell you that, foreigners can tell you that, everyone can tell you that.

And we all benefit from having a healthy society. So if you are of the mentality "Oh I can afford health care, I shouldn't have to pay for other people's health care, it's their problem!". Nope, because I'm sure you would hate to have your kid get sick over and over again at school because one person can't afford medical treatment for their child, so that kid's at school spreading around flu or strep or whatever.

And it's true that democrats tax people a lot, but they have much better reasons for taxing people. They tax people and the money those people pay in taxes goes back to them (in health care, etc). The money reps tax goes to stupid things like war and themselves.

And as a footnote, all other industralized countries have socialized health care. The idea that if you're over 18, you get cancer, then go to the hospital and have them deny you treatment because you have no health care is just ridiculous to them. And I know this because I read international message boards.

Axel
10-28-2008, 06:48 PM
But I dont think you realize Democrats are known for taxing people.

And there was a reason for a war. Bush got a hint about Nuclear Weapons and he was trying to keep us safe and when we found out there were none we were asked to stay there and help rehabilitate the country

Taxes, to me, are a small price to pay to fix up our economic state. What I hate is people who complain about how there's no cash flow in the government, or that the govt. isn't do anything to improve the quality of life here in the US. Well, we don't exactly have a bottomless money bag. The money's got to come from somewhere.

And Bush and the government had ulterior motives coming out the wazoo for going into Iraq. They lied and personally, I think you're a fool to believe what they said.


The estimated National Debt of the US is $10,528,746,506,618.24.
The estimated population of the United States is 304,992,782.
Each citizen's share of this debt is $34,521.30.


That's a fact. That's our share whether we like it or not. We should be working towards paying that off and getting ourselves out of this hole. That means getting out of Iraq. That means no more tax breaks for people who can afford higher taxes and no more outsourcing jobs (or giving tax breaks to companies that do like McCain has voted for in the past). If we stopped outsourcing our jobs to places like India and China, we'd have more opportunities for employment here at home and thus, a better quality of life because then more people could become government independent.

The sad part is, it's not even a debt to ourselves. $2.4 trillion is debt to China and Japan. What happens when the T-Bills we sold them come due and we don't have the money to pay them back because people want to keep their money to themselves.

Will we end up like Germany post WWII where their money was so worthless after they printed off enough to pay off their foreign debts that people started carting it around in wheelbarrows?

Also, completely unrelated, I just realized I mis-authored a book I recommended a while back. Nickel and Dimed is by Barbara Ehrenreich.

marypops!
10-28-2008, 06:49 PM
From what i've been reading, the USA is the only industrialised nation that doesn't have a universal health care system.