MS's confirmed no more Stormalong Bay hopping [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

eva

05-01-2002, 12:17 PM

You guys are right. The offical notice as follows is on the site:

Pool-hopping at Disney's Yacht & Beach Club Resorts

Stormalong Bay, the feature pool at Disney's Yacht & Beach Club Resorts, is by far the most popular pool-hopping destination. With this summer's addition of nearly 300 units at Disney's Beach Club Villas, we've had to consider how Members and guests using these new accommodations will be affected by overcrowding at this theme pool.

In an effort to preserve the quality of this resort experience for you and your family, Members will no longer be able to pool-hop to Disney's Yacht & Beach Club Resorts unless they are staying at these resorts or at Disney's Beach Club Villas starting July 1, 2002. The current pool-hopping program at other Walt Disney World® Resort pools will continue to be available to Members with the exception of certain restricted dates and/or further capacity issues.

This decision was made after careful review of the impact to our guest experience. We remain committed to providing excellent vacation experiences while maintaining a safe environment for your family.

disneyma

05-01-2002, 12:38 PM

Thanks Eva! I hope that MS gets a copy of the official announcement so they will tell guests the correct information. This might be old news...however....it seems that there is some type of confusion that still exists...

:) Disneyma

DVCDAVE

05-01-2002, 01:31 PM

OK, I may have been wrong about SAB pool hopping being in the VM, but I did qualitfy it and said 'I believe'. However, I remain convinced that the news about no pool hopping at SAB once BCVs open came about with the pre-sale announcement. That announcement said that both, 1) BC will no longer be offerred in the Disnaey collection, and 2) pool hopping will no longer be allowed at SAB with the 300 unit additions of BCVs. The announcement also reaffirmed that pool hopping at other resorts remain, except during peak or unusally heavy travel times, to be sure, call ahead to the resort you wish to pool hop to.

disnefile

05-01-2002, 02:46 PM

On the members web site, it is under member news. After 7/1, SAB will no longer be available for pool hopping. I guess you have to stay there it get in.

Pete

dougmatt

05-01-2002, 02:49 PM

I have to say.... Considering all of the bennefits we have been 'loosing' ie.. EE, BC PH, raising the point cost of cruises and collections, etc.. It's getting annoying...:mad: :mad:

Deep Breaths... Deep Breaths.....

Almost makes me regret my recent add-on and has me reconsidering the one I am WL'd for............................ Maybe I should put the money down on a condo :) on the beach :)

DVCDAVE, didn't mean to question what you saw.. Just VERY frustrated with the news.... and couldn't find it myself..........

Doug

doubletrouble_vb

05-01-2002, 03:10 PM

Makes you wonder if pool hopping will return once BCV sells out. After all discontinuing ph there is a huge sales pitch.

CaptainMidnight

05-01-2002, 04:02 PM

Makes sense that SAB pool hopping would go by the wayside. Reports say it is crowded now, it should be kept reasonalbe for guests at the resort. Glad PH will still be offerred at other locations.

Guess you just need to stay at BCV on points and then your all set to go to SAB. Still nice that we can visit other hotels and pool hopping will not be going away all together.

Rock'n Robin

05-01-2002, 04:20 PM

What a shame. We hopped over there last year and it is head and shoulders above BWV's pool. Oh well.
Robin M.

Mouse Ears

05-01-2002, 04:28 PM

Does anyone else think it is weird that DVCers are allowed to pool-hop to most of the Disney Resort pools that are not connected to DVC in any way, yet those like WL and BC are not allowed. DVC members are supposedly contributing to the upkeep at those resorts but not the others. Seems backward to me.

Am I missing something here. :confused:

:earsboy: ME

RoutemanDan

05-01-2002, 05:07 PM

I think someone owes me a pizza:D Wasn't that the bet?

DVCDAVE

05-01-2002, 05:28 PM

it is weird that DVCers are allowed to pool-hop to most of the Disney Resort pools that are not connected to DVC in any way, yet those like WL and BC are not allowed.

MOUSE EARS; Who said anything about no pool hopping at WL ?

Halle

05-01-2002, 05:28 PM

What is the issue regarding the main pool at OKW that a previous poster referred to? Anyone have any info?

CaptainMidnight

05-01-2002, 06:17 PM

SAB Is the one Disney pool that has cracked down on locals and pool hoppers from other resorts. I understand why and I understand their decision to limit or stop pool hopping there. Rooms in that hotel are not cheap and when I am paying for a room I deserve a pool chair! I think that the addition of the BCV will put that pool at capacity a LOT more than it is now.

Well said. I agree. I have not heard of restrictions at WLV pool or anything about the OKW pool accept that last year or so the addition of a slide was voted down by OKW members. I think putting it to a vote by resort owners is a great way to do it, and the majority ruled.

Lets face it, non of the pools are shabby, they all compare very well to other hotel pools. I think you might have to try real hard not to enjoy any of them, although overcrowding would hurt the experience. I'm just glad we can still visit other resorts for an activity other than just eating. We'll have to go check out the poly pool sometime.

DVCDAVE

05-01-2002, 06:35 PM

Well said CAP'N !!! We agree 100%

Dean

05-01-2002, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by RoutemanDan
I think someone owes me a pizza:D Wasn't that the bet? Dan, I think you lost that bet. The bet was that if PH was totally gone in a year or less (19 April) I owed you a Pizza. If it persisted in any form in exactly one year, even if total cancellation had been announced for a date after 19 April, you lost and owed dinner for 2 at Narcossee's or Artist Point. I wasn't going to say much, it was really more for fun but since you brought it up, I like my steak medium, LOL. Here's the thread. (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25298&perpage=15&highlight=Narcossees&pagenumber=1)

Dean

05-01-2002, 07:59 PM

As for this being announced previously, it had been rumored and we had speculated. It had not been announced formally before just recenly and only on the website from what I recall. Still, it seemed predictable. Too bad though, I hate it for my fellow members that valued this perk so highly.

Horace Horsecollar

05-01-2002, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
I have not heard of restrictions at WLV pool or anything about the OKW pool accept that last year or so the addition of a slide was voted down by OKW members. I think putting it to a vote by resort owners is a great way to do it, and the majority ruled.
There was not a vote by OKW owners. DVC is not a democracy. We don't vote on policies.

Some years ago, DVC sent out a survey to a sample of OKW owners. The question asked if the members would want their dues increased to fund a slide -- including the ongoing expense of having lifeguards at the slide.

CaptainMidnight

05-01-2002, 11:55 PM

Ya, I think your right. It was a survey, not a vote. I'm not an OKW owner, I really wasn't involved. I don't know if the survey results were made available or how close the survey was.

Doctor P

05-02-2002, 05:54 AM

The add on we just bought at BCV seems a little more valuable (to me, not in money terms ;)) now!

Regina

05-02-2002, 06:29 AM

DEAN!! How the heck did you dig up that old post! Holy smokes!:earseek: :earseek:

It looks like he "gotcha" Dan.:D

DisneyCrazy

05-02-2002, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight

Well said. I agree. I have not heard of restrictions at WLV pool or anything about the OKW pool accept that last year or so the addition of a slide was voted down by OKW members. I think putting it to a vote by resort owners is a great way to do it, and the majority ruled.

Lets face it, non of the pools are shabby, they all compare very well to other hotel pools. I think you might have to try real hard not to enjoy any of them, although overcrowding would hurt the experience. I'm just glad we can still visit other resorts for an activity other than just eating. We'll have to go check out the poly pool sometime.

I beleive there was a 'limited survey', not a vote by ALL OKW members. I own two contracts and was NOT asked my opinion.

I do agree that a vote is a good idea, bu they have yet to do that and quite frankly I doubt they will. It will be a DVD ONLY decision and based on more than if OKW owner want it (like are the other pools with slides overcrowded - possibly by OKW pool hoppers).

P.S. Sorry, I see someone already pointed that out - I guess I should read ALL the posts before I reply...

DGuiltinan

05-02-2002, 02:04 PM

I am not certain I am following this discussion, I need clarification:

I have a Labor Day ressie at Beach Club Villas, via rented DVC points...

Will I be allowed to use the Stormalong Bay pool???

DVCDAVE

05-02-2002, 02:12 PM

Yes you can use SAB. Pool Hopping is when a DVC owner is staying at a DVC resort, and usues a pool not at a resort he is NOT staying at.

wdwendyd

05-02-2002, 02:14 PM

DGuiltinan-
Since you are staying at Beach Club Villas, you will be able to use Stormalong Bay pool. Because you are not a DVC member, you will not be allowed to pool hop to other pools.
I think using SAB will definitely make-up for not being able to pool hop!:D

DGuiltinan

05-02-2002, 02:27 PM

That is a relief.....

I've already been telling the kids about Stomalong Bay, it would be a bit of a let down to tell them they have to swim in the "Quiet Pool" (Although their presence would, by definition, make the phrase "Quiet Pool" oximoronic)...

I don't normally pool-hop, with one exception:

We love to break up the Magic Kingdom day by taking a launch over to the Poly, and have occasionally crashed their pool for a quick dip, often before having dinner at Ohana's.... It is quite easy to do. Has it become more difficult to do this sort of thing lately??

I hope not!! Further, we sometimes will park at the Poly in the morning, and take the monorail to the Magic Kingdom. The last time though, they said I could only stay there until 11AM. We ignored that and left at 3PM with no problem... Has anyone ever heard of people getting into trouble for overstaying their welcome??

mooses41

05-02-2002, 02:40 PM

We love to break up the Magic Kingdom day by taking a launch over to the Poly, and have occasionally crashed their pool for a quick dip, often before having dinner at Ohana's.... It is quite easy to do. Has it become more difficult to do this sort of thing lately?? I hope not!! Further, we sometimes will park at the Poly in the morning, and take the monorail to the Magic Kingdom. The last time though, they said I could only stay there until 11AM. We ignored that and left at 3PM with no problem... Has anyone ever heard of people getting into trouble for overstaying their welcome??

I hate to be like this, but someones got to do it(I guess, dont flame me if this is too off topic) You are a major part of the problem with pool hopping. You aren't welcome to use the pool or park for free there. And if anybody thinks they are, then just go up and ask the people at the front desk. If they say that, even though you aren't staying there, you can park for free and use their pool, then, by all means, tell everyone here. There would be no one in the mk parking lot, b/c they could park for free right next door. And the pools would be overcrowded with non-paying guests who invite themselves.:rolleyes:

Regina

05-02-2002, 02:50 PM

Mooses, I'm afraid that you're mistaken. DVC members are allowed to pool hop at the Polynesian. (There are times when poolhopping is restricted.) It's asked that you contact the resort first to see if there's a capacity problem. If not, you're welcome to use their pool.

To further clarify, the DVC member must be staying at WDW at the time. A current resort ID will be required.

However, the parking issue is different. At the MK resorts, there are 3 hour time limits for guests who are staying at other resorts. They also must have a priority seating meal reservation, or, in this case, they'd be allowed to pool hop for 3 hours.

I have heard of cars being towed from the Contemporary, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens at the Poly.

DGuiltinan

05-02-2002, 02:54 PM

What you are saying is correct.... One thing though, we are annual passholders, so we do not do it to save the $6.00, we just do it because we love the poly so much. I have stayred there a few times, but lately we have been kicking hiney on Priceline and staying off-campus in 4 star hotels really cheap...

But, once I get into the lobby of the Poly, I get that "We're at WDW" feeling....

Believe me, we are a help to Eisner's bottom line, we often spend more on pins alone then we do on lodging, and we spend a small fortune at the various Disneyworld eateries.....

But, I do see your point, and I won't try to defend what we do...

Just one thig, though, a quick, 10 minute dip at the Polynesian's pool?? It's not the biggest sin, is it?? I think it pales in comparison to the numerous so-called handicapped people who hop off their electroscooters and race to the front of the line at all the attractions!!!

Okay, bring on the flames!!

PKS44

05-02-2002, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by dvcreg
Mooses, I'm afraid that you're mistaken. DVC members are allowed to pool hop at the Polynesian.

Umm- dvcreg -you missed the point. The guy is NOT a DVC member.

Paul

Regina

05-02-2002, 03:23 PM

Oops, I missed the part where he said that he was renting points.

Thanks for pointing that out Paul.

Dean

05-02-2002, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by dvcreg
DEAN!! How the heck did you dig up that old post! Holy smokes!:earseek: :earseek:

It looks like he "gotcha" Dan.:D LOL, actually it wasn't that difficult. I have the text saved to my notebook file anyway but figured it'd be more fun to post the actual thread.

The other bets I have down are these. With Vernon where he wins if EP ends in 2042 at this thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81559&highlight=2042) and with WDW_Fan for $1 if there are at least one large or 2 small DVC resorts after BCV at this thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=915)

Dean

05-02-2002, 03:55 PM

There are really 2 points here about the pool hopping of "non members". First, DVC has chosen to list renters as "members" and not enforce the differentiation that should occur. In this situation, if the card says member, I don't think you can blame the renter. The blame should be on DVC for not enforcing the rules. The second portion is one who simply crashes the pools, I have no tolerance or sympathy for this practice nor would I for a member that is not staying at WDW on points who pool crashes.

ncligs

05-02-2002, 05:25 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dean
LOL, actually it wasn't that difficult. I have the text saved to my notebook file anyway but figured it'd be more fun to post the actual thread.

The other bets I have down are these. With Vernon where he wins if EP ends in 2042 at this thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81559&highlight=2042) and with WDW_Fan for $1 if there are at least one large or 2 small DVC resorts after BCV at this thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=915) [/QUOTE

Dean, thanks for those links...they were intresting;)

chris1gill

05-03-2002, 08:31 AM

Well, I'm the original OP on this one and I really don't like the way it is going....

First of all, the reason pool-hopping is being taken away from DVC'ers is because the pools are RAMPANT with locals and other vacationers who use hotel pools that don't rightly belong to them, it's MUCH easier to blame it all on DVC'ers who get the "right" to pool hop.. Thanks goes out to those people who do this because they have ruined it for those of us with the "right" to pool hop... Disney cracks down on us and not people like that, it's disgusting....

Second of all, as for the ECV people that were mentioned, you should thank your lucky stars you don't need an ECV, Wheelchair or Powerchair like I do & second of all if you think people like myself get to the front of the line you are just MISTAKEN, there are many rides I CAN'T GO ON because they are not accessible, there are other rides I WAIT MUCH LONGER FOR, like the safari & then there are rides I wait in the traditional lines for & there might be less than a handful that I get on a bit more quickly, so if you think people with mobility issues are getting an easier ride, let me be the first to tell you, you are mistaken!!

Next, as for people parking free at the resorts & getting a free ride into the parks, again this is something Disney knows about, if they choose to let these people get away with it, more power too them, Disney is the one ultimately losing out...

DGuiltinan

05-03-2002, 08:49 AM

No, let's not start a war here, I am really sorry...

I'll try to think about what you said, and change my evil ways...

I'm sorry I even brought this up, it was completely off topic, and definitely the wrong forum!!

There is enough hatred in the world right now, the DIS is one of the few places I know where people always make the extra effort to be nice to eachother...

I should never have made that comment about handicapped people, real or fake, it was not nice...

CaptainMidnight

05-03-2002, 09:19 AM

DGuiltinan,
It's one thing to mess up. It is quite another to stand up and admit you messed up, offer a sincere appology, and make changes as you did in your last post. Nice job.

To often when some posters offend someone they don't display the character you just displayed in offerring a nice appology. I hope the trend your contributing to continues throughout the DVC board.

That's probably enough said on that one....

Back to pool hopping at Storm Along Bay.

chris1gill

05-03-2002, 10:00 AM

I agree with Captain Midnight, apology accepted DGuiltinan, thank you... I really hope for all others who pool hop against policy that they see what they are doing is wrong (course most won't care). As for mobility issues, not all are seen, initially mine weren't, they sure are now....

As an aside DGuiltinan, since you are renting DVC points for your BC reservation, you will be allowed to PH to all other Disney pools (you're already entitled to SAB), with the exception of AKL (whose pool isn't that good anyways)...

DGuiltinan

05-03-2002, 10:07 AM

Yes, that is very interesting info, thanks...I can actually use the Polynesian pool this trip, and not feel guilty about it...

Tell me, is there a standard procedure that I should follow, such as prominently displaying the DVC identification?

Further, does this pool hopping ability entitle me to use the Polynesian parking lot? (For a few hours, I promise, I won't leave my car there and go to the Magic Kingdom anymore!!)

Would it be proper for me to tell the Polynesian gate people that I am poolhopping and show my DVC ID??

I am very excited about staying in a DVC property, who knows, maybe this time next year I'll be writing as a member, not just a renter!!

:)

chris1gill

05-03-2002, 04:41 PM

Yup, you can hop legally now :) You always have to show ID when you get the pool items (such as life jacket, toys, etc...) Generally, ID is not checked otherwise (this is where Disney's problem lies, not with pool-hopping DVC'ers- we take a lot of heat on other boards for this)... Anyways, rarely does anyone check ID's, but it definitely happens on occasion, just keep the room key with you. At the guard gate just tell them you're DVC'ers pool-hopping, you'll have no trouble at all.

If you like to travel to Disney at least every other year DVC can be a good choice, although it is not as inexpensive as Priceline for instance, but it's less than the $10 per point most owners charge for renting...

TrudyZ

05-03-2002, 06:55 PM

DGuiltinan:

Watch out when you rent points...it can be more expensive than you think. There are several of us out here that just started by renting points for a vacation. Next thing you know, we're forking over a 5 digit check for 40 years of WDW vacations!:D

Must be something in the water...

Trudy

Terry S

05-03-2002, 07:27 PM

I think its in the taffy at the DVC office.

DGuiltinan

05-03-2002, 10:10 PM

You are a super bunch. I think DVC members are the best!!

:)

chris1gill

05-04-2002, 07:30 AM

We Try! :D Oh, I also recommend that you NEVER stay in a 1 bedroom or above, because you will be HOOKED FOR LIFE...

trishy

05-05-2002, 02:41 AM

Yet another SLAM to DVC members. I for one am tired of the recent BLOWS to DVC members. My reason for pool hopping from BWV to SAB is simply this: SAB ROCKS! Yah, yah, yah, BWV has a decent facility........ but give me a break. There's really no comparison. The cruise points rise, the onboard credit for DVC members ripped out from under us, ending poolhopping (SAB is just a start), I could go on & on, but everyone here has seen the trend in these threads! We've invested in 900 points - our friends have invested in 850 points. It seems the "suits" do not care about finding a happy medium for customers - it's all about the bottom line and what they can get away with. DH is more kicked back than me - he sides with the "suits" - after all, the real estate market is sitting pretty and he's still geting a darn good vacation. I just sometimes feel with all these limitations and changes, DVC'rs are getting treated like second class citizens (especially on DCL)

:bounce: FREE THE DVC :bounce:

gscott8075

05-05-2002, 06:17 AM

Trishy -

I understand your frustration - I love SAB, too. I do not think they needed to move this way. If they allowed DVC people to check on capacity - if its at capacity, you cannot use it. I suspect they will now use this as a selling points for BVC. "Buy and BVC and you will have exclusive use of SAB." I have used points for the cruise. They are now to the level where I doubt I will again.

However, we bought a real estate interest. All we are entitled to are the DVC resorts in reasonable condition at a constant point cost and maintenance fees which cannot increase more than 15% per year. That's it. Nothing else.

That's it - the concierge collection and exchanges can be ended at any time. Pool Hopping is a great perk - but its not a guarantee. The limited discounts are not guaranteed. The point value trend is a clear indicator that they are "encouraging" (coercing?!?) us to use points to stay at the DVC resorts. Exchanges are becoming point cost prohibitive.

I do not agree with the suits - I'm in your camp. In the end, this is a contractual relationship with a subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company. That's all it is. They can use all of the mushy advertising and tag lines they want, but its still a contract and they only have to do what's within the four corners of the document.

Sure, they do nice things for people with points and seem to try to help out. They typically have great service and very nice facilities. But that's the service angle - it has nothing to do with the contract.

Please understand, I love WDW and all things Disney - but its a business. And that's how they run it.

I'm not trying to be a downer - just a realist.

CaptainMidnight

05-05-2002, 06:31 AM

SAB poolhopping seems more straightforward to me that being part of some large trend toward reducing perks for DVC members. The pool will just be too crowded with YC, BC, BCV, DVC hoppers, and local pool crashers. A lot of folks are thinking it will be too crowded with just YC, BC and BCV guests.

It's not totally off limits, just stay at BCV on points and enjoy SAB. Folks, this one has been coming for a while, as the early posts said, we've known this one was coming.

chris1gill

05-05-2002, 06:48 AM

Hi Captain Midnight,

I think you're right, this really should not come as any big surprise to us... they are using this step to sell BCV's IMHO... that's all they are doing. They could have limited PH'ing to after 5PM only or before 11AM only or something like that, in totally off hours where our PH'ing would have very limited effect on resort guests. DVC chose not to do that for whatever reason.... I can't complain about their choice PH'ing was never guaranteed.

What I'd like to see through all this though, is a policy of CM's ALWAYS checking ID's at the pools. I think it is terrible that locals as well as other vacationers crash Disney pools... DVC'ers seem to be the only ones excluded! I like to think that we DVC'ers are also a pretty honest group in general & we are unlikely to PH against Disney policy, so it goes back to Disney implementing a way to limit access to ALL that don't belong in the pools...

nydizfan

05-05-2002, 06:51 AM

Heres an alternative.. We always go during the slow periods. Lasst time was jan 12-24. and before that was the second week in sept. In sept. we went to SAB and there was about 4 people in the whole pool. no ID checks no nothing. So if you reallly want to visit the pool , go during the slowest time //,,,,,,,,,,,dave:cool: :cool:

Dean

05-05-2002, 07:36 AM

gscott8075 expressed my basic sentiments. They are not required to do anything. However, I feel they have a basic obligation to provide the best set of perks that can be negotiated.

I too feel the loss of PH at SAB was inevitabe, actually, I feel the entire program is in grave jeopardy. I suspect with DI and possible EP, it will be stopped eventually. Sure, there are times when it will be slow enough to allow PH. I suspect though that it is too much of a hassle and expense to deal with the monitoring and ongoing determinations of whether the pool should be open or closed at any one day or point in time.

While I'm pretty cynical about some of the perks and motivations of DVC in general at times, I do not think for a second that this was done for any reason other than the crowd potential. I think any reasonable person could have seen it coming and it was the appropriate decision in the circumstances. While an individual guide may use it as a selling point, I doubt it had any role in the decision making process.

I know a lot of people feel that if WDW policed this issue better, there would be no reason to limit it for DVC members. That may or may not be the case, I just don't know and I am not convinced that's the case. I do know they've policed it strictly at times at SAB and apparently they haven't felt that was enough.

PKS44

05-05-2002, 09:29 AM

Dean wrote:
I suspect with DI and possible EP, it will be stopped eventually. Sure, there are times when it will be slow enough to allow PH. I suspect though that it is too much of a hassle and expense to deal with the monitoring and ongoing determinations of whether the pool should be open or closed at any one day or point in time.

nydizfan wrote:
So if you reallly want to visit the pool , go during the slowest time

chris1gill wrote:
they are using this step to sell BCV's

The above 3 quotes say it all- this is a sales strategy-purely- there is no year round capacity issue. If every addded BCV guest were swimming when we went midday during a very busy October weekend along with the people who were already there it still would not have been crowded.

If it is as Dean says, TOO MUCH HASSLE to enforce, then it will be no problem for the well-prepared family to go at slow times and act accordingly- (warn the kids that it may not work out and go)....am I saying break the rules? If it is too much of a hassle to enforce it is too much of a hassle to obey...no one should go when capacity is at issue-which has always been the case, but otherwise....

"What? They discontinued the Poolhopping privelege to SAB? When? We had no idea...We're sorry. let's go, kids. Have a Disney day!"

CaptainMidnight

05-05-2002, 09:36 AM

I'm in favor of limiting pool hopping at BCV and I am glad the new policy is being put in place. When staying at Beach Club Villas, even if SAB is not at complete capacity, it would be nice to go there when it is not a busy and there is some extra elbow room.

It's very easy, if folks are that interested in using SAB, stay at BCV. I'm sure there will be some reasonable availability at the 7 month window. The pool should be reserved soley for Beach Club Villa, BC and YC guests, in my opinion and I'm glad the policy is bing implemented. Great job DVC leadership, this is a very good decision.

kem330

05-05-2002, 09:36 AM

I agree that pool hopping to SAB is a practical decision based on the additional influx of BCV members. It simply can't handle any more volume. I don't believe pool crashing has been a huge issue there. Anytime we've stayed there at peak times, we were always checked for id's. Ndiz fan has a point- when its really low season- I don't think they care or check. But essentially, SAB is available to all DVC members by virtue of the fact that you can use your points at BCV (or YC for that matter). Of course that 7 month window may be difficult to get in but you could always try a trade with someone.
I think its unfortunate that DVC so widely promoted all the benefits and perks when as Dean and GScott stated, they were never guaranteed- just so called "privileges". This has created a lot of unhappy campers. We almost bought VB because of the existence of SSPL- we thought we'd be able to get into WDW at new years with this program. Thank god we found this board and learned about resales, and buy where you plan to stay. When they cancelled SSPL, we learned something about privileges vs contractual obligations. When they raised Disney Collection last year, it was lesson number 2. Now the cruise increases, etc have been quite an eye opener for many of us who bought DVC based on the expectations that it truly offered more options than just a DVC stay. That said, it still is a great program for staying at Disney. The resorts are beautiful and it definitely offers a savings if you visit every 2 years or more. I just think it's been bad PR on Disney's part to tout all these privileges and then one by one take them away.

CaptainMidnight

05-05-2002, 09:37 AM

I'm in favor of limiting pool hopping at BCV and I am glad the new policy is being put in place. When staying at Beach Club Villas, even if SAB is not at complete capacity, it would be nice to go there when it is not a busy and there is some extra elbow room.

It's very easy, if folks are that interested in using SAB, stay at BCV. I'm sure there will be some reasonable availability at the 7 month window. The pool should be reserved soley for Beach Club Villa, BC and YC guests, in my opinion and I'm glad the policy is being implemented. Great job DVC leadership, this is a very good decision.

mikesmom

05-05-2002, 09:52 AM

Come on, guys, all you have to do to use that pool is make a reservation at BCV. You should be more irritated if you were staying there and the pool was so busy that you couldn't enjoy it!

I don't for a minute think they're doing this to drive sales at BCV. It's not even open yet and so many sales have been made that they've removed all the incentive packages. I think there's not only new member sales (and those people probably didn't know about PH anyway), but a subset of members who are buying at BCV because they've wanted ressies at BWV and couldn't get them. Location means a lot!

Maybe it will be difficut to make ressies at the 7 month window - time will tell. It isn't more difficult now. DH and I wanted to go down for three days to the Food & Wine Fest. Unfortunately we didn't realize we could handle getting away until we were about 9 months out . Tried to make ressies at BWV (home). Stayed on the waitlist for 2 months and said we would take anything - any view, studio or 1 bed, ANYTHING. We hit the 7 month window for BCV and had absolutely no problem getting a reservation.

DoeWDW

05-05-2002, 01:47 PM

I have to agree that, as a new BCV owner, I'm happy that pool-hopping to SAB is being stopped. I like the idea of using SAB without tons of people being around.

Every day, new people buy into DVC at one resort or another. There's no way that you can indefinitely apply all these perks to more and more members.

I bought into DVC expecting what was in the contract - not all the other perks that may or may not be around for the long haul.

Doreen in PA

disnefile

05-05-2002, 02:15 PM

I agree. I did it once and it was a pain. My wife would never do it again as it was so crowded. I am also happy it is being stopped. Disney did the right thing. Just because you own DVC what makes people think they have the right to use other people's property. It was a nice perk while it lasted. It was a gift and you should be thankful Disney allowed it. DVC has taken nothing away for members since I have been there in 1994. All these options that people are complaining about were told that they could end at any time. Disney more than lived up to its end of the bargain. NO other tinme share does what Disney does. Instead of complaining sell. There are more than enough others who will buy and realize the value that we have.

If SAB means so much then buy there.

End this.

Pete

ncligs

05-05-2002, 02:18 PM

disnefile,

Well said Pete, I agree:smooth:

Dean

05-05-2002, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by PKS44
The above 3 quotes say it all- this is a sales strategy-purely- there is no year round capacity issue. If every addded BCV guest were swimming when we went midday during a very busy October weekend along with the people who were already there it still would not have been crowded.

If it is as Dean says, TOO MUCH HASSLE to enforce, then it will be no problem for the well-prepared family to go at slow times and act accordingly- (warn the kids that it may not work out and go)....am I saying break the rules? If it is too much of a hassle to enforce it is too much of a hassle to obey...no one should go when capacity is at issue-which has always been the case, but otherwise....As I said previously, I don't think this can be reasonably constued as a sales tactic but that's not to say the sales staff won't take advantage of it, I'm sure they will.

When I said hassle to enforce, I was referring to having someone keep up with usage, make a determination on a day by day or even hourly basis about how crowded the pool was then get all those phone calls from DVC members asking if they can come on over. I think they will need to (and should) continue to card those entering the pool area at SAB.

Actually, the real fix of this issue is to add another pool area about the equal of SAB possibly slightly better, but maybe somewhat larger. Maybe they will do that at DI or EP. They should make it easy to monitor. EP would seem to be the logical choice as the resort will need a draw more than golf anyway. It's out of the way enough that crashers won't be as big of a problem as the rest and could be designed ahead to handle the usage.

As far as the "sell if you don't like it line", that one really makes my skin crawl. I would agree that if someone is truly unhappy with their ownership, it's an option to sell, however, for most issues it is better to try to affect change from the inside.

disnefile

05-05-2002, 02:41 PM

like I said, SELL

chris1gill

05-05-2002, 02:44 PM

How nice....

Dean

05-05-2002, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by disnefile
like I said, SELL I happen to agree with Disney on this one in this exact situation though I wish it wasn't necessary. The sentiment of sell if you don't like a certain thing is a very dangerous one. Eventually they will do something that you don't like, if so, will you sell then? Of course you'll have that option but there is definitely an in between from being a Disney zombie to selling one's ownership. Examples of possible negative options would include no pool hopping, elimination of any or all exchanges, points adjustments by season or weekend/weekday, increase in fees, new resorts much higher points, suspending banking/borrowing, changing the home resort priority, or even dropping a resort from the membership. What would get one upset enough to sell is not the same level for all of us. To me, the only issues above that woudl make me even consider selling would be the fees go up too much and if MY resort was dropped from DVC membership.

chris1gill

05-05-2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Dean
To me, the only issues above that woudl make me even consider selling would be the fees go up too much and if MY resort was dropped from DVC membership.

Dean, didn't your fees just go up recently :D write that check yet? :jester:

Dean

05-05-2002, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by chris1gill

Dean, didn't your fees just go up recently :D write that check yet? :jester: LOL, they did go up and I got the points to prove it or at least it looks that way. Come to think of it, they went up to almost double. Why did you have to ruin a great day by reminding me that every silver lining has a cloud. LOL. :tongue: :tongue:

disnefile

05-05-2002, 03:07 PM

Dean,

Dean

My comment was for those few people who complain about every change. No one ever thought that DVC would become so big. I think disney never should have allowed pool hopping as it was a disaster waiting to happen. They held off as long as they could in making this change. As far as points going up, well that is their decision. I think again it is a costly benefit and if you realy want to stay at a resort those people should never have purchased.

Other changes like you mentioned are valid complaints as they change the basic program. I am not against letting yourself be heard but people have to have be reasonable. PeteBt people should be reasonable complaints., Disney is not a charity and they are there to make a profit. My fear is that they will raise the dues to keep some of these programs that were never a guarantee.

Thanks for listening

Pete

Dean

05-05-2002, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by disnefile
My comment was for those few people who complain about every change. No one ever thought that DVC would become so big. I think disney never should have allowed pool hopping as it was a disaster waiting to happen. They held off as long as they could in making this change. As far as points going up, well that is their decision. I think again it is a costly benefit and if you realy want to stay at a resort those people should never have purchased.

Other changes like you mentioned are valid complaints as they change the basic program. I am not against letting yourself be heard but people have to have be reasonable. PeteBt people should be reasonable complaints., Disney is not a charity and they are there to make a profit. My fear is that they will raise the dues to keep some of these programs that were never a guarantee.I'm usually one of the ones saying if it's not in the contract, it's not guaranteed, so I hear where you're coming from. It's just that the sell if you don't like it always bugs me. Probably more than Rich's comments bug some. I remember the old Prodigy board and that was the standard line if anyone complained about anything.

DeeP

05-05-2002, 05:39 PM

I love SAB but I must admit it is a hassle to go there and we are only coming from BWV. It is much easier to just use the pool at BWV. My DD actually cheered when I told her no more pool hopping to SAB, because I am always bugging her to pool hop there when we stay at BWV and she is much happier at Luna Park.
As for Disney ever building another pool comparable to SAB, that will most likely never happen. We were talking to one of the YC/BC managers about this and he told us Disney will never build another pool like SAB and they are sorry they ever built SAB. It is a very expensive pool to maintain, it requires more life guards, they always have problems with people trying to pool hop and he did say Disney does realize alot of the people are locals, also maintaining the sand bottom and the special filtration system, etc is very expensive.
What I would like to get back is the daily newspaper delivery we used to get at BWV. I can't believe Disney is saving that much money by cutting this perk out! We have gotten a newspaper by going down to the front desk but it was so much nicer to just open the front door.

ehagerty

05-05-2002, 07:15 PM

1. Access to Stormalong Bay was a big part of our buying into the VC, since we saw it as a cost savings NOT to have to pay to go to the water parks - since we considered SAG a worthwhile alternative. We understood that any/all "programs" are subject to change, so be it. That said, unless you have a contractual agreement, BCV access to SAG could go away at some point in the future as well.

2. I purchased all the points at OKW I will ever need long before there was any discussion or awareness that they may build another resort - so there was no perceived "option" to buy into other resorts at that time.

3. I am disconcerted about the ugliness of the discussion here. I am not proud to be a member of a group that is so nasty to each other - and if I were thinking about buying into WDW-VC, this discussion thread would be a deterrent.

Happy Birthday Cat

05-05-2002, 07:25 PM

That said, unless you have a contractual agreement, BCV access to SAG could go away at some point in the future as well.

ehagerty:

We did an add on at the BCV and purposefully read the public offering statement to see if SAB is mentioned. It is mentioned by Disney in the document as a pool available to BCV owners so I don't think they can take it away from BCV owners in the future. I even discussed this point with our guide. I take it as a contractual agreement.

HBC

disnefile

05-05-2002, 07:49 PM

HBC,

you may think people are being nasty but it is just opinion. We are all entitled to one. I consider this a healthy discussion as most of us do.

If you bought to save money on water parks you did for a while. However, Disney does not have to allow this perk to continue. It was explained to most of us when we purchased. Were you mislead? If so, that is a problem of your sales person. However, if you made your purchase based on what you thought was a permanent situation then you made a big mistake. This is not nastiness just truthfulness
Pete

disnefile

05-05-2002, 08:00 PM

Sorry HBC. My response was fro the previous post.

By the way, you are right that the SAB is part of the contract and can't be taken away, ever. I had my lawyer review the contract.

Thanks,

Pete

Happy Birthday Cat

05-05-2002, 08:02 PM

Thanks for the clarification disnefile.

I was wondering what I said!

;)

chris1gill

05-05-2002, 08:29 PM

Hmm, I think I see what Ehagerty sees... some of the thread is nasty IMHO, and it's too bad the entire thread couldn't be healthy discussion. I think insulting people due to their dissappointment over SAB is detrimental & comments that are insulting. Most people know that PH'ing wasn't a guarantee, but geesh give people a little time to relax before you go around insulting them.

Originally posted by disnefile
HBC,

you may think people are being nasty but it is just opinion. We are all entitled to one. I consider this a healthy discussion as most of us do.

If you bought to save money on water parks you did for a while. However, Disney does not have to allow this perk to continue. It was explained to most of us when we purchased. Were you mislead? If so, that is a problem of your sales person. However, if you made your purchase based on what you thought was a permanent situation then you made a big mistake. This is not nastiness just truthfulness
Pete

disnefile

05-05-2002, 10:20 PM

chrisGill,

I hope you are not replying to me because you are taking what is said as facts as insults and not rading what is being said. Sorry you feel that way. Please re- read and you will see that I have not insulted anyone. Again, just the facts. I feel bad for those who may have been mislead by sales people but I never rely on what they say. You have to read the contract and assume that you will only get what they legally have to give you. If you make assumptions about future events, that is a mistake and you will most likely be disappointed.

If a person made a decision on the basis of an option which could be taken away at any time, they made a mistake. If you cant't see that then no one can change your mind.

nydizfan

05-05-2002, 11:18 PM

I think what most have said that healthy discussion is very good and thats what I think we have here. some posters can be very frank. So it can be perceived as an afront to many opinions. I dont see it that way ... many have different views. . thats it .. cant wait till BCV in Sept......dave:cool: :cool:

kem330

05-06-2002, 07:29 AM

One of my points in posting previously in this thread was that this board is extremely helpful in pointing out the realities and strengths of DVC. The reality being "read the contract". In the excitement of purchase it is easy to overlook the fine print. In the past, Disney has made a point of emphasizing the perks of DVC as a sales tool. When pool hopping and reasonable exchange rates for Disney collection and the cruise were offered, many members became accustomed to these benefits. So it is disappointing EVEN though it is perfectly within the DVC contract to remove or change such benefits. I do feel we need to beware of contracts vs privileges but that is not always so apparent to a new buyer (or an older member who is used to having said benefit). It seems that theres some "told you so" going on here and frankly, I myself was one of those who didn't initially differentiate between contract obligations and benefits. So as a board we can be helpful in pointing this out to members with some understanding and empathy vs smugness;)

CaptainMidnight

05-06-2002, 08:19 AM

If your not a BCV owner, you'll need to stay out of our SAB pool unless staying at our villas, YC &/or BC, thank you. Your reservations at our resort are more than welcome at the 7 month window. :-O

I've read so many postings from folks criticizing BCV, the decore, views, being an add on to an exsisting resort, lots of negative opinions. I personally see many things I like about the Villas, SAB being one of them. Each resort has it's advantages. BCV has SAB as one of it's advantages. Come stay at our villas if you'd like to take advantage of it, your more than welcome. We hope to visit WLV and HH sometime in the future.

I really haven't seen anything I thought would fall in the nasty category. However, I do hope we all make the effort to be kind and courteous to one another, even if sharing information that is different or contradicts another poster. That can easily be done with courtesy. Hope the humor comes through above. I think it's OK for BCV owners to have a little pride in thier home resort, as others do in their's.

DisneyCrazy

05-06-2002, 08:37 AM

I don't see anything really 'nasty' either - but I have a pretty thick skin, especially when Internet message boards are involved.

I just think the 'if you don't like it sell' comments are non-productive. If you have a different prospective to give, then do so, those types of comments are like saying, "shut up", which to me is a waste of space.

I enjoy hearing the opinions of other's - no matter how wrong they might be :D

joepoe

05-06-2002, 10:38 AM

We've never been to SAB although I walked through it one early morning while I was taking a stroll around the lagoon during our BWV stay last Feb. It looked nice, but having never playerd there, I guess I don't know what I missed.

My feeling is that Disney should upgrade their other pools somewhat, especially in finding space for lounge chairs, and really try to keep out the locals or non-Disney resort folks. I don't mind showing my ID if it helps keep out the freeloaders.

doubletrouble_vb

05-06-2002, 10:40 AM

Just one comment...

Disney could build a zero entry pool as attractive to DVC'ers as StormalongBay is...but it doesn't have to be another Stormalong Bay. Just something unique & pleasant to use. To be honest I'd love an indoor/outdoor pool with swim up bar, lazy river with built in slides. Since EP is the next big DVC they could build in a minature golf course that you play through part of the pool using plastic golf balls!

Okay so some people would hate this but I'm just giving an example.

Another thing I'd like to replace SAB hopping (a privilege I never used) would be to get hopping to the Swan/Dolphin. Technically there aren't any conflicts because it would be an arrangement between DVC and S/D. Of course I don't see DVC bucking their parent that far but it'd be nice.

CaptainMidnight

05-06-2002, 10:49 AM

I just think the 'if you don't like it sell' comments are non-productive.

Agreed. Probably not nasty, but along the lines of discourteous. These types of comments are not needed where we are simply sharing views and opinions.

PKS44

05-06-2002, 01:20 PM

I would like to Float a few issues about poolhopping...

First, my guide made it as clear as water that poolhopping was never guaranteed. Second, I think SAB is over-rated. It is nice but definitely no substitute for a true water park, even a non-Disney water park. Third, it bothers me when people talk about poolhopping as if it is some profit issue. I do not see allowing the few DVC members who actually use this perk to swim in another pool as creating any significant drain on the Disney bottom line. Pool hopping has no impact on Disney's liquidity.

The pools are there and have to be maintained with or without hoppers. The "extra" security to keep out undesirables should be there anyway to keep out non-guests or extra guests when pools are busy anyway. So where is the "extra" expense in allowing DVC members to hop to any pool that is not at capacity- which has always been the policy? I understand the concerns about adding all those rooms at the YC/BC BCV, even though I have never seen SAB crowded. (I understand that my experience is both limited and apparently unusual.)
The poolhopping members use some towels, if they did not use them there they would be using them at their home resort, so that is a wash...
I think the only issue is the fuedal way that Disney runs the resorts-with DVC obviously our dues are used for our home resort...from what I understand the YC BC budget is seen as it's own thing compared to say the BWV budget, so if YC sees an increase in towel laundry that is offset by a decrease at the BWV towel use, nobody knows. All that is seen is that YC BC laundry expenses increased. There is no vision of resort wide costs in this regard. IF towel laundry cost is an issue that could easily be remedied without eliminating the perk...members could be restricted from using towels at the hopped to pool--they could still get towels from their home resort.

It is especially interesting that those who are the nastiest about the poolhopping thing are also the ones who never planned on using it...how quick they are to eliminate something that has no value to them personally without considering other solutions.

disnefile

05-06-2002, 03:08 PM

PKS,

Who is nasty? Please list those people that you are accusing and let them respond to you.

WebmasterDoc

05-06-2002, 03:48 PM

Please keep this discussion to Pool Hopping at Stormalong Bay.

If someone feels there is a problem with a post, direct your concerns to a moderator, but no discussion of these perceived problems will be tolerated within this thread.

Thanks!

--WebmasterDoc

Zimbubba

05-06-2002, 04:02 PM

It all depends on how one interprets contract. Disney would intrepret it as the written document that we signed. Others would include printed material distributed to entice sales. I know DVC has changed alot since we bought in 1995. However, these disappearing "privlidges" just reek of the ole bait and switch tactics. The overcrowding is most likely not associated with DVC members. There are other factors that they are not addressing. It would be an interesting test of the law to explore the concept of enticement advertising and then revoking or non-availability of what was offered.

Dean

05-06-2002, 05:53 PM

While I'd agree that there is a potential contract if DVC gave one all this literature touting the pool hopping and other benefits implying they were an integral part of the program. It also be interesting if one could prove the verbal comments that have been made at times by some of the guides. At least from a PH standpoint, there has really been precious little written down even for owners. About all I can remember is the color page in the old Member Guidebook.

Anyone else remember the gnashing of teeth from some when DVC changed the points required for adventure time. I remember MS talking about all the reaming they were getting on that one.

I've only mentioned it on this board once or twice but it seems to fit in well here. I took the tour back in 94 and was told something that was definitely untrue. I had documentation but ended up buying resale in 94 or early 95 I think. When I found out I had been told incorrectly, I questioned DVC about this. To make a long story short, they offered to buy my contract back at what I had been out and make me whole. I considered it but my wife wanted to remain members and we're glad we did.

CarolA

05-06-2002, 08:24 PM

I have just one thing to say. I cannot believe there are 7 pages of posts on a SWIMMING POOL!

Grotto

05-06-2002, 09:09 PM

Even if it was "illegal" to take away pool hopping after listing it in the sales materials, Disney could argue that they aren't taking away pool hopping at all - they are only eliminating one pool of what?, maybe 40 pools on property. I doubt that they ever listed pool hopping specifically to SAB anywhere.

Johnnie Fedora

05-06-2002, 10:35 PM

the quiet pool at BCV would have been in a lagoon shape to mirror SAB (in a mini way). It looks nice, but a sand bottom would help keep me at the quiet pool rather than always going to SAB.:cool:

CaptainMidnight

05-07-2002, 07:23 AM

Johnnie,
have you seen the new pool? What's it like? I haven't seen pictures of it yet. I think the sand bottom takes a lot of care and work. I've seen CM's out raking the sand in the mornings. But I agree that something unique and fun in teh pool would be great, a waterfall overhang like the Dolphin pool or a bridge or something so you could get in the shade if you wanted. The drawings for the BW pool indicate a bridge, but in never materialized. Great point about the "0" entry, probably not right for a quiet pool, but a great idea and wonderful for kids who become destine to hang out on the steps.

Zimbubba

05-07-2002, 02:52 PM

<<While I'd agree that there is a potential contract if DVC gave one all this literature touting the
pool hopping and other benefits implying they were an integral part of the program.>>

This does exist. It is in the original promotional material. Although DVC would argue that it was promotional and not contractual. It is still misleading and borders unethical.

Zimbubba

05-07-2002, 02:56 PM

<< I have just one thing to say. I cannot believe there are 7 pages of posts on a SWIMMING
POOL!>>

This is important to some people. Just like I can't believe some people discuss room views but that is important to people also.:)

Johnnie Fedora

05-07-2002, 10:45 PM

The only picture I have seen is the one on the BCV's artists rendering that was mailed earlier this year. It looks like a standard rectangularish pool with concrete decking. I had hoped for more of a Stormalong Bay "feel" to the pool area at BCV.

DVCDAVE

05-08-2002, 08:38 AM

Quite frankly, I don't uinderstand all the fuss. It is funny that there are 7 pages here, all about a pool.

SAB, and no pool hopping there, were widely expected long before BCV went on sale. It was discussed on these boards time and time again.

Further, and this is my opinion only, the BCV purchasers should go in to their transaction with eyes wide open and realize that they are buying in to a resort that already has an overcrowding problem at their pool, that WILL ONLY get worst as their resort sells out. This is clear logic.

Yes, SAB is a great pool and makes BCV an attractive purchase. BUT, what good is it if the crowds are unbearably overcrowded and you can't enjoy a little rest and relaxation ? Potential purchasers should think long and hard before making their decision at any resort, in particular SAB may be a major reason for some to buy, and avoid BCVs. Again, just my honest opinion, please don't flame me.

JonHM

05-08-2002, 08:47 AM

Stormalong Bay, despite being immense for a resort pool, has limited resources. Up until now it has been supporting the Beach Club, the Yacht Club, and pool hopping DVC members. After July 1st, it will be supporting BC, YC AND 200 new Villas in BCV. Not 200 additional people, 200 additional units - that's a LOT of new people that SAB will now be supporting. I think that that alone will be pushing the limits of how many people SAB can support, particularly when the weather gets hot. IMHO, that is ALL that is behind the new policy, and it makes complete sense to me.

DoeWDW

05-08-2002, 08:50 AM

DVCDave - no flames here!

We are new members at BCV and I am happy that only people staying at BC, YC & BCV will be using SAB.

However, I am glad that pool-hopping to other pools by DVC members will be allowed, precisely because of your point. If I want to just relax by a pool for a few hours and get a taste of another DVC resort AND leave the SAB crowds behind, I'll still be able to do that.

Doreen in PA

DVCDAVE

05-08-2002, 09:04 AM

I didn't clearly state one point in my above post. I have no problem with SAB, and the ban on pool hopping there. I truely believe that MS and DVD has an obligation to make all guests experiences at the YC, BC and BCV as pleasurable as possible.

Yes I have pool hopped, and I always called ahead to whereever we went to make sure I could hop to that location. The ban on SAB, or for that matter a total ban on pool hopping wouldn't destroy my DVC experience one bit. There is always plenty to do at WDW to keep this family occupied, yet relaxed.

disnefile

05-08-2002, 09:07 AM

DVC Dave,

I think you hit the nail on the head. The pool may become like the Magic Kingdom on a hot August day. There even may be 2 hour waits for the slide. They may have to put in a fast pass.

Kidding aside, there will be a real problem just for the people at the resort itself. People will have to use the quiet pools as I am sure this resort was not designed to have all of its guests at SAB.

Has anyone experienced the pool crowding at OKW. It seems everyone wants to be at the main pool, by the way, which does not have a slide. If you are not out there by 11am you can't get a seat. But, the quiet pools are often empty.

Pete

DVCDAVE

05-08-2002, 09:18 AM

DISNEFILE;

I know exactly what you are talking about, and agree. Last March during our VWL stay we often went to the main pool to enjoy watching the activity, but couldn't get a chair. So, we walked back to the quiet pool to relax just the same. No complaint here ! Either way we enjoyed ourselves, it is just we would have preferred the main pool over the quiet. Sometimes, ya just enjoy a few hours of 'people watching'.

manning

05-08-2002, 11:18 AM

According to real estate law. Only what is written in the contract is enforceable. So, if a guide says you can pool hop and it will never be taken away, it means nothing unless you can get the guide to put it into the contract and both parties sign it.

Dumbo

05-08-2002, 12:10 PM

Doreen wrote:

>>If I want to just relax by a pool for a few hours and get a taste of another DVC resort AND leave the SAB crowds behind, I'll still be able to do that.<<

Doreen,

I agree. That's the way it should be. However after July 1 that all changes. If you are staying at Boardwalk Villas you will be not allowed to go over to SAB. Even on a cold January day when SAB may only be half full.

I don't have a problem with restricting pool hopping when the pool is at or near capacity. My frustration is that I am paying dues to support Luna Park pool that is allowed to be used by members staying at BCV, yet I can't use SAB when staying at my home resort.

Dumbo

trishy

05-08-2002, 12:27 PM

Exactly. It's already written in the guidelines that poolhopping will not be allowed on certain days and "due to capacity constraints". They already had the option of limiting the amount of people at SAB. I just don't see why they needed to ban it indefinitely - even during low or normal capacity. I haven't been there when it's been crowded. My kids just love playing in the sandy pool - they love the walk over, too. I'm just disheartened to lose this feature of our DVC vacation. Though we still have the "Pennywise" pool as we call it (anyone get that?) it was nice to have another alternative with a slide. I can definitely see where resentment from BWV owners might escalate because of this decision. I think we may be the main poolhoppers to SAB. (?)

CaptainMidnight

05-08-2002, 05:01 PM

I just don't see why they needed to ban it indefinitely - even during low or normal capacity.

I'd hate to see the SAB pool always completely full. I think that is an unreasonable expectation. I'm glad DVC management has taken steps to address this. BC + YC + BCV is really going to be stretching it, there are already plenty of reports of it being overcrowded prior to opening BCV. Look, just stay over at BCV when you want to use SAB, all DVC members are welcome in the 7 month window.

DisneyHumbug

05-08-2002, 07:02 PM

Yes!! We think "Pennywise", too!!

PKS44

05-08-2002, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight

I'd hate to see the SAB pool always completely full. I think that is an unreasonable expectation.

This kind of comment is a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the position that trishy put forth...and one with which I agree. I have NEVER seen SAB full. I am not saying it does not happen, I am saying at times it is very slow and such times should be open to hopping....As I stated, when we went poolhopping there on a very busy October weekend last year there were maybe 20 people there, 30 tops. The number of DVC members hopping there at any one time like that is negligible. No body said allow poolhopping to the point that SAB is always crowded...what we are saying is just limit it to times like when I was there when the addition of another 4 to 20 people is not going to make much of difference on the availability of chairs, etc...YC, BC BCV lodgers should expect to have priority--the great myth being put forth is that somehow the BCV addition will make SAB busy all the time...if they are so busy they are going to have to police it with wristbands or something like it...the pool has such an extensive border to guard that it will be way to easy to access it...anyway I don't doubt it will be busier-that is self-evident. I do not believe that 365 days a year, during all the 8 daily hours of SAB, it will be so busy that it cannot handle the handful of hoppers wanting to swim there, say midday, midweek, in January, for an example. This is what trishy was saying, I believe. A more logical and consistent policy would have recognized that while SAB is unlikely to be "on-line" for pool hopping very often, the blanket ban is unnecessarily inflexible. It is the sort of rigid thinking that typifies beaurocracies that have no faith in people... Unless DVC members have demonstrated some tendency to abuse the poolhopping privelege such a move is not just unnecessary, it is an insult...As far as I know, DVC members are an excellent group of guests and could have been expected to happily comply with a more flexible policy that would respect the special needs of guests at the SAB resorts. None of this logic will change the policy though- this move is salesmanship pure and simple..giving BCV buyers a "special" perk for owning and staying there- if it was not a selling point, why were guides touting this change in policy long before it became "official?"

CaptainMidnight

05-08-2002, 10:17 PM

this move is salesmanship pure and simple..giving BCV buyers a "special" perk for owning and staying there

Nope, sorry, don't buy it. Nice try though. I think the limitations for SAB pool hopping are entirely reasonable based on capacity issues and not some big sales conspiracy plot. And I stand behind the point that I don't want SAB kept at near capacity, there should be slower times at the pool. Constantly flipping back and forth that it is available, not available, doesn't see like a good solution either. Again, come stay at BCV on points, all are welcome.

By the way, I appreciate the courtesy that differring views are being presented. on this issue. Nothing wrong with different views, and gaining a common understanding of both sides.

nydizfan

05-08-2002, 10:46 PM

once again i need to respond to this. We all agree that most of the times SAB is very crowded . Or at least somewhat crowded.
But , if you go to the pool in the second week in sept, when we usually go , there is no one there. maybe 20 people. I will still go with my son. I cant see anyone( the cm) asking for id's. And i am a long standing dvc member . but i just dont see the harm. no flames please......dave:cool:

PKS44

05-08-2002, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
By the way, I appreciate the courtesy that differring views are being presented. on this issue. Nothing wrong with different views, and gaining a common understanding of both sides.

What is wrong and not helpful is stating and arguing with different views inaccurately- there is clearly no common understanding but a misunderstanding of the other views not helped when they are restated so inaccurately.

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight And I stand behind the point that I don't want SAB kept at near capacity, there should be slower times at the pool.[/

And who argued otherwise?

Then we all agree...and have not said anything that contradicts that point. No poster has said anything that even remotely represents a contrary view.... But the Captain keeps saying it as if someone has suggested otherwise....

I will try to state my position again even more clearly...IF poolhopping were allowed at certain slow times still, such as on weekdays, midday during slow season,etc. that would NOT make SAB at near capacity- or anywhere NEAR capacity---the pool would still have slow time, down time because the point is that there are probablyVERY FEW people poolhopping...the addition of poolhoppers at such times would have no meaningful impact on the pool capacity--- which is as it should be not just at SAB but also for any other pool...hoppers should not be hopping to any pool to the point that it brings it up to capacity or over capacity---that has always been the general idea behind the policy and should have remained the policy...

On again off again hopping to SAB is not at all what I suggested... they know when the pool is likely to be empty- midday, certain times of the year...they know when it is going to be very crowded and have pre-announced pool hopping suspension well in advance in the past...I think Disney's and Captain Midnight's position is unnecessarily inflexible and that a more realistic policy could have been fashioned EASILY...if they were interested in keeping current hoppers satisfied..but they have those members money...so who cares?

I still believe the way this policy was "sold" by guides long before it was official is proof that it is a sales tactic--( not a conspiracy-another misrepresentation of other's views-- never said that it was anything like a conspiracy)...if it's not a selling point then why are the salesman even mentioning it?

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Nope, sorry, don't buy it. Nice try though. I think the limitations for SAB pool hopping are entirely reasonable based on capacity issues and not some big sales conspiracy plot.

This is called the Argument of Personal Incredulity and is not a valid argument.... Whether the Captain, or I or anyone else "buys" it or not, is irrelevant. An individual's incredulity is not a counter argument. Everyone is free to believe or not believe anything-but that has no influence on the facts...I don't "buy" that year round blanket bans are reasonable based on capacity issues- but my not believing is not my argument...it is based on some assumed FACTS---maybe my statements about the influence of hopping on capacity are not correct...maybe a lot more people hop than I am assuming--then they would have a negative impact on capacity even at the slowest times...if so then the policy would be reasonable as the Captain argues---BUT if my assumptions are correct- and they are assumptions that the Captain has misrepresented -either misunderstood or completely ignored- then the policy is NOT reasonable. It is not based on any reasonable capacity issues..this is a testable situation-though the test is not going to happen because the sales pitch is settled. A poll on these boards while unscientific indicated that only a small percentage of people poolhop anyway...I believe that the motivated hoppers can still expect to hop to SAB at slow times without expecting enforcement of the new policy-and no one will be any worse or wiser for it...and if they are---don't do it.

Paul

CaptainMidnight

05-09-2002, 12:15 AM

PKS44,
Well, I'm actually packing up the van to drive to Vero Beach, so I'm not going to invest time into responding to the eloquently stated points you raise, despite my disagreement with them.

I did not know the name of the aurgument approach I employed, I'd only seen it used before, thanks for the learning point. The unknown point that you base your aurgument on is how many people actually pool hop.
there are probablyVERY FEW people poolhopping
It may not be as few as you claim, and not as many as I think that may negatively impact capacity if limitations are not imposed. I am basing my views on reports I've read on these boards of lots of crowds at SAB, I do not have personal observations of how crowded it is at different times of the day, week or season. As a Beach Club Owner, I'm sure I'll be able to gain a greater understanding as I use the pool more often, although our next trip is scheduled for the busy christmas season. I must also confess that while I cannot label the aurgument strategy behind this point, I am very concerned about my familes ability to visit SAB and enjoy using the DVC resource of SAB that I have invested in through our purchase at this resort. My opinion is that the addition of BCV will probably be too much for the pool, and we'll be relegated to the quiet pool due to crowds. While I do not have data and crowd projections to support those concerns, or experience beyond those raising concerns about crowds on these boards. I made the decision to purchase at BCV knowing that the ability to comfortably use SAB may be limited during the peak seasons when we will most probably be traveling. Given those concerns and my perceptions of limited SAB availability, I welcome DVC taking steps to address SAB capacity concerns.

I'm sure this thread will be long dead by the time I return. Perhaps the policy will be modified. May all DVC members have a wonderful vacation, including and especially PKS44. Have a safe trip your next time out everyone.

Dean

05-09-2002, 06:28 AM

The fact that the guides are using the change in their sales pitch means nothing, of course they will irregardless of the motivation of DVC in the pool hopping change. I too doubt the amount of pool hopping is minimal. I'm sure DVC and BC has data that tells how full the pool is based on time of year and week as well as a definite idea of what percentage are guests at BC, DVC pool hoppers and crashers. I bet management would share that data if one asks the right person. I stand on my belief that to police this issue to the extent it would require to open it up part of the time is unreasonable. The policy would look something like this "you can pool hop to SAB any weekday in September or October except for teacher planning days, minor or major holidays or when the wind blows from the east. The rest of the year you can pool hop from 8 am to 11 am or from 6 pm until closing but again only on weekdays and not during any week within 2 weeks of a major or minor holiday". LOL.

True, the only things that are close to facts that we actually know in this thread are that SAB is being closed to PH and that apparently the guides are using this. Whether they are being trying to be honest or just using it as a sales pitch is irrelavent. The rest is our individual assumptions of how much impact the DVC pool hopping and amount of pool crashing has as well as the "cost" of the enforcement and related determinations have.

dougmatt

05-09-2002, 07:03 AM

This thread is just keeps going and going and going :) . Anyway in an effort to 'keep it going' I offer 2 points:

1) It would seem like many of the people posting on this thread on the side of 'happy with the change' are BC owners, and seldom pool hoppers. We PH every trip to WDW and most often end up at SAB. As my DW is a teacher we only travel during the PEAK PEAK PEAK times. Often when PH is suspended. Even then we go over to SAB and visit P-n-C. I have NEVER seen SAB at capacity! I have seen a lot of people there, but not all the chairs full, nor more than a 10 (- maybe 15) minute or so wait for the slide (and if you wait for a break the line dies down since noone wants to walk that far over and over.) Therefore the argument must be that the villas are going to add SIGNIFICANT pressure on the crowds at the pool, which is likely valid as DVC'rs spend much more time (by percentage) at the pools and other facilities than other travelers.

2) (the more important point) I have been told by my guide, and it is printed in the BC literature that SAB is 'currently' available to the BCV's, but not gauranteed. He has warned me that it could be pulled away in the future. This is pretty much the EXACT wording they used when they talked about PH'ing when I purchased. So if they take SAB off the PH list, or stop PH'ing all together, then IMHO it is only one small step further to take SAB away from BCV owners, who REALLY represent the pressure on the pool. YOU BCV owners have paid NOTHING for SAB (regardless of the earlier posters). You do NOT own SAB. Your dues do NOT pay to support SAB. You have a nice quiet pool :). That sounds harsh, but it is the reality of the situation.

Be careful what you are so willing to 'give up' as it may be you giving it up some day.

MHO

Doug

DVCLady

05-09-2002, 08:07 AM

Doesn't it say in the public offering statement that came with the BCV documents about the SAB pools? Other BCV owners can help me out with this. I thought I read about it, being a BCV owner myself? Do you mean that even if it is in the documents they can still take it away? :confused:

DVCLady

05-09-2002, 08:19 AM

BCV owners, page 20, 6 in the public offering statement explains the pools.

CarolA

05-09-2002, 10:00 AM

If it is in the documents they could take it away, but I am pretty sure it is a legal nightmare that Disney is not going to do.

However, the solution to all this whining about your dues supporting pools etc. is fairly simple. Eliminate pool hopping all together. Why they don't do this, I don't know. I think from both a user point of view and a DVC point of view this perk is WAY to much trouble for the reward.

HookdonWDW

05-09-2002, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by dougmatt

2) (the more important point) I have been told by my guide, and it is printed in the BC literature that SAB is 'currently' available to the BCV's, but not gauranteed. He has warned me that it could be pulled away in the future. This is pretty much the EXACT wording they used when they talked about PH'ing when I purchased. So if they take SAB off the PH list, or stop PH'ing all together, then IMHO it is only one small step further to take SAB away from BCV owners, who REALLY represent the pressure on the pool. YOU BCV owners have paid NOTHING for SAB (regardless of the earlier posters). You do NOT own SAB. Your dues do NOT pay to support SAB. You have a nice quiet pool :). That sounds harsh, but it is the reality of the situation.

Be careful what you are so willing to 'give up' as it may be you giving it up some day.

MHO

Doug

per page 6 of the Beach Club Villlas Public Offering Statement:

b) Certain other recreational and commonly used facilities are made available to Owners, Club Members, their guests, exchangers and renters of the Beach Club Villas through the Common Facilities Agreement and are described as follows:

i) Feature Swimming Pool and Sun/Bathing Deck. One (1) feature swimming pool and one (1) sun/bathing deck is built and available for use. The sun/bathing deck is approximately 73,000 square feet in size and the feature swimming pool is approximately 29,000 square feet in size and ranges in depth from zero (0) inches to eight (8) feet. The feature swimming pool is heated and has a capacity of 1200 persons.

Sounds like a guarantee of SAB in my contract...

DisneyCrazy

05-09-2002, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by HookdonWDW

per page 6 of the Beach Club Villlas Public Offering Statement:

b) Certain other recreational and commonly used facilities are made available to Owners, Club Members, their guests, exchangers and renters of the Beach Club Villas through the Common Facilities Agreement and are described as follows:

i) Feature Swimming Pool and Sun/Bathing Deck. One (1) feature swimming pool and one (1) sun/bathing deck is built and available for use. The sun/bathing deck is approximately 73,000 square feet in size and the feature swimming pool is approximately 29,000 square feet in size and ranges in depth from zero (0) inches to eight (8) feet. The feature swimming pool is heated and has a capacity of 1200 persons.

Sounds like a guarantee of SAB in my contract...

Might be sematics, I'm no lawyer: made available... Can they be made UNavailable? To me, it doesn't say 'will provide', which sound more concrete. Again, I'm no lawyer.

Can the 'Common Facilities Agreement' be changed/amended? I SERIOUSLY doubt it would change, but at quick glance it sounds like it could. I assume you didn't sign this agreement but rather Disney and DVD did. They might decided to change it later.

dougmatt

05-09-2002, 01:35 PM

I can only go with what the guide told me since I have not yet purchased BCV. He was very specific the SAB was 'currently' available for use, but was NOT part of the resort and could be taken away. Like I said, it was EXACTLY the same words he used to describe PH'ing back when we bought :)....

As to this:

However, the solution to all this whining about your dues supporting pools etc. is fairly simple. Eliminate pool hopping all together. Why they don't do this, I don't know. I think from both a user point of view and a DVC point of view this perk is WAY to much trouble for the reward.

WHAT??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

There is absolutely NO trouble on ANYONE's part... The user's experience no trouble, there is absolutely NO significant admin by DVC.. Only 'cost' is an environmental one of which the significance has yet to be proven by empirical data.

Obviously this is not a priviledge you utilized so you do not CARE (or understand why it bothers others) if it is done away with.. However what about if they pulled something you enjoyed? Perhaps 2DC activities, or the Camp Fires, or perhaps the DS discounts, or stopped offering member getaways, or decided not to do the DCL offering anymore, got rid of the CC resorts, stopped allowing II transfers... and on and on and on.. NONE of these programs are GUARANTEED to remain or stay the same. ALL of these programs represent SIGNIFICANTLY more cost to DVC than PH!?!? (Every benefit we loose whether you used it or not affects someone. :D :D :D )

EVERY trip to Disney we go to SAB, so this one hits home for me. Especially when there doesn't seem to be a legitimate reason for it. As I said before it is possible that the addition of BCV's will impact SAB significantly due to DVC members using pools a little heavier than traditional guests, but I would have liked to see them make the effort of verifying that before reducing our benefits. Right now there is no statistical evidence to support the decision. I also haven't seen them add a benefit in AWHILE. Only reduce. That is a negative trend that I hope will stop soon. The last significant 'added' benefit I remember is the addition of DCL to the point charts (in 98?). There have been some discount changes along the way, but nothing else of significance that I can remember....

One more thing... Perhaps PH'ing going away is Disney's way of pushing DVC'rs back to the parks? My last 2 trips down I didn't go near them... Apent all my time at the pools :). They do have statistics on DVC'rs attendance at the parks!

PHEW! I'll get off the soapbox..... Sorry if this sounds harsh. Don't mean it to be. PH'ing is possibly my FAVORITE benefit, and SAB is my DF's favorite pool. The loss of SAB to PH'ing means Luna will REALLY be packed now (thought of that yet???)... How soon til it's cut off there?

Doug

PKS44

05-09-2002, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by CarolA
Eliminate pool hopping all together. Why they don't do this, I don't know. I think from both a user point of view and a DVC point of view this perk is WAY to much trouble for the reward.

I guess I just don't see how this perk is any trouble at all, in general. As I pointed out in an earlier post it costs them NOTHING. It does not create any additional work, it is the easiest thing in the World to give away because it is using facilities that are already there and have to be maintained whether they are used by one or one thousand people a month...The only "trouble" would be if poolhoppers were creating some new problems- this is the heart of the SAB issue...DVD apparently feels that SAB cannot handle the burden of BCV and continued poolhopping...as for the rest of the resorts- I don't know- but maybe with the DVC population now over 50,000 families there will be too many DVC poolhoppers on property and they will pose some problems beyond SAB--that they have not eliminated the whole program yet is proof that the program is not WAY too much trouble- if it were they would have gotten rid of it...I suspect poolhopping is done by a very small percent of DVC owners...the only trouble it tends to cause is on these boards...

Dean

05-09-2002, 03:34 PM

PKS44 and dougmatt. Don't confuse the realization that this was a doomed program, especially at SAB, with the desire for it to stop. I wish it weren't so. My comments are based on interpretation and reality and not desire. As to documentation, I'm sure they have plenty, just not sharing it with us. Someone who feels strongly should talk with the voting representative or one of the board members and see what studies and documentation have been collected. My guess is it will be quite a lot.

As I've said all along, stopping PH to SAB is almost the equivalent of discontinuing the program and would be the beginning of the end, IMO. I wouldn't worry about SAB not being open to BCV members unless it's closed totally though I'm sure BCV will pay a pretty penny for that benefit.

As for the system being no trouble and having no cost, I would disagree. What about MS taking all the calls about the program and changes therein. When one follows the rules, they call the resort to see if it's open for that day. That means they must have a person, persons of even a committee that determines when it's open and when it's closed. It also means that there must be education and a notification system so that the staff at BC/YC knows when it's open and closed. Then they must put up with the complaints of DVC members that are turned away when necessary. Even if there were no financial cost to Disney, there is an aggravation that seems more trouble than it's worth from their standpoint. I can tell you for certain that if I were DVC and had to worry when it's open, when it's closed and the personnel issues associated; I'd cancel the program and deal with the one time heat it would generate. Otherwise I'd just have it open all the time. There would be no in between. And no, there's no legal situation here. Even if one wanted to pursue this legally, there are 2 factors. One is that there's no legal basis and the other is Disney is the proverbial 600# Gorilla.

And yes, all of the other non guaranteed options could change including the fact that a resort could actually be dropped from the Club in certain situations. I personally think Disney should continue the program all of the time to all of the pools. I think they made a commitment even it it's not a legally binding commitment. I actually think that the limitations that were initiated a few years ago and have been slowly increasing, was actually the beginning of the end.

I personally don't care to make a distinction between cash or points guests or BC or DVC pool hoppers. I feel Disney made a commitment to both and don't see one any more important than the other. Personally, I think you keep it open to the entire group until it's full then you close it if necessary. Since DVC has to monitor access anyway, you simply strive to keep out the crashers. You also police saving of lounges and if one is empty for 2 hours or more, it's fair game and any materials left are taken up by staff.

PKS44

05-09-2002, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Dean
As for the system being no trouble and having no cost, I would disagree. What about MS taking all the calls about the program and changes therein. When one follows the rules, they call the resort to see if it's open for that day. That means they must have a person, persons of even a committee that determines when it's open and when it's closed. It also means that there must be education and a notification system so that the staff at BC/YC knows when it's open and closed. Then they must put up with the complaints of DVC members that are turned away when necessary. Even if there were no financial cost to Disney, there is an aggravation that seems more trouble than it's worth from their standpoint. I can tell you for certain that if I were DVC and had to worry when it's open, when it's closed and the personnel issues associated; I'd cancel the program and deal with the one time heat it would generate. Otherwise I'd just have it open all the time. There would be no in between.

If those things Dean says are true this would be a good argument to stop the program...If they are not true, I am still waiting for a good argument...I doubt all of the above...I would like to see some real numbers, if the program actually costs or makes so much aggravation I am not one to still demand anything...Most of the posters seem to be quite reasonable--all any of us PH fans are saying is give us the facts, there are none now because the place has not even opened., so they decided either on conjecture or they have facts--if they have facts, share the facts...since we don't get any that leaves all of us guessing and I think my guesses are as likely correct as anybody's until proven otherwise....There are 1050 DVC rooms on property away from the BCV. How many house poolhoppers on a given day?(few probably) Of those, how many are going to SAB? (most probably) How much administrative headache has this caused (little probably) But it would be nice to have those facts...an idisputable fact is that SAB is not ALWAYS busy right now.

I doubt there is much thought that has to go into "deciding" and educating the staff if a pool is open or not, the number of days closed outside the pre-announced days would be an interestiing fact...has anyone on these boards ever called and been told a pool was closed unexpectedly? Please post about your experience...I suspect this happens so infrequently that the cost and aggravation are negligible...and the number of calls fielded about whether a pool is open or not is unknown- my guess is that it is a tiny number...all those calls and "all the calls to MS" might amount to one call a day, maybe two, for all we know...and you can't count any of the recent calls about the changes-the whole point is it would be fine if they would just leave it alone and see what happens....we are also not aware of the number, if any, of complaints by members turned away...what would the complaint be? The system allows for turning people away, fair and square...The only complainers I have heard about were hopping against the rules, not staying on points, etc...I would suspect anyone complaining would be a basic complainer...you can be sure they will find something else to whine about if not this.

One more point...for those staying at BCV- that is one long walk to SAB through the BC lobby--I hope the extra cost of cleaning up the sand and water trekked through the lobby doesn't raise the dues too much or lead to curtailing of SAB priveleges;)

HookdonWDW

05-09-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by DisneyCrazy

Might be sematics, I'm no lawyer: made available... Can they be made UNavailable? To me, it doesn't say 'will provide', which sound more concrete. Again, I'm no lawyer.

Can the 'Common Facilities Agreement' be changed/amended? I SERIOUSLY doubt it would change, but at quick glance it sounds like it could. I assume you didn't sign this agreement but rather Disney and DVD did. They might decided to change it later.

I checked my contract, and the public offerings statement (p.8). According to both, this is what I got:

Common Facilities Agreement shall mean that certain Common Facilities Agreement by and between Worldco and DVD effective the _____ day of _____, 200_, as recorded in the Official Records Book _____, Page___, Public Records of Orange County, Florida.

I agree that the agreement is between Disney and DVD, but the contract and POS both state that "Recreational facilities may be expanded or added without consent of the Purchasers of the Association."

Since DVD went out of their way to state this, I think that we would have grounds for complaint if they took Recreational Facilities away, that were mentioned specifically in the contract and POS, and didn't replace them with comparable facilities.

And if DVD decided to build a SAB II for BCV owners, I'm not going to complain:D

Dean

05-09-2002, 09:52 PM

From what I'm told, the pool opening or closing is a fluid decision that is made by some staff or the other throughout the day. On days the pool is theoretically open, they have closed it during the day and asked people to leave who started out legal pool hoppers. I also know of at least once where a DVC member was told yes on the phone call and refused entry on arrival within an hour. I don't know how often this happens, I suspect it is rare but it has happened. I suspect there is a person each and every day who has part of their job to follow this issue and keep the front desk updated as to open or closed. How well they do that job is another matter, not very well at times it seems.

Obviously DVC has to have projections but they seem pretty good at that over the years. I would bet they have data as to how busy the pool is by day of week, month, holidays and the like. I also bet they have a pretty good idea with real data as to the percent or number of DVC members PH to X resort and the same for crashers. Whether they will indeed share it may be another matter. I actually think they would if you got to the right person. The fact they've even gone to what I'd consider an extreme situation of having it closed part of the time tells me it is important to them and worth them spending their time and money with up to a point. I guess SAB reached that point.

PamOKW

05-09-2002, 11:16 PM

They are adding 205 villas to the SAB pool without enlarging it at all. The majority of those people are going to want to use the main pool....just like very few Y&B club guests use the quiet pools now. I can see where there is the potential for overcrowding and they've decided to go ahead and eliminate the pool hopping to SAB. I don't see where there is any legal grounds for members to protest this decision.

DisneyCrazy

05-10-2002, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by HookdonWDW

I checked my contract, and the public offerings statement (p.8). According to both, this is what I got:

Common Facilities Agreement shall mean that certain Common Facilities Agreement by and between Worldco and DVD effective the _____ day of _____, 200_, as recorded in the Official Records Book _____, Page___, Public Records of Orange County, Florida.

I agree that the agreement is between Disney and DVD, but the contract and POS both state that "Recreational facilities may be expanded or added without consent of the Purchasers of the Association."

Since DVD went out of their way to state this, I think that we would have grounds for complaint if they took Recreational Facilities away, that were mentioned specifically in the contract and POS, and didn't replace them with comparable facilities.

And if DVD decided to build a SAB II for BCV owners, I'm not going to complain:D

Again, just my two semesters of business law for reference here - but since it says, "without consent of the Purchasers of the Association" I would say they could also take things away. Sure, you could complain, but legally you would have no recourse. Like I said, I don't see it happening, but it could - there is nothing that says it couldn't.

I think there is a better chance of SAB II than anything. It (SAB) is obviously VERY popular - if it turn out to be too crowded with the addition of BCV it would make sense to add another rather than having dissatisfied guest (of BCV, YC & BC).

PKS44

05-10-2002, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by DisneyCrazy
I think there is a better chance of SAB II than anything. It (SAB) is obviously VERY popular - if it turn out to be too crowded with the addition of BCV it would make sense to add another rather than having dissatisfied guest (of BCV, YC & BC).

From what I have heard there is virtually no chance of another pool like SAB anywhere on property again...It has been a headache to maintain and they can do nice, themed pools cheaper and easier without making an SAB like place- (e.g. new Poly and GF pools, Coronado Springs pool)..Any fancy water features will likely only be added as part of a new water park ($$$)

For those who complain about paying dues to support their pool that others use, I would just remind them that the pool has to be maintained pretty much the same no matter what, and the added PH's add little cost to the necessary maintenance expenses...Just curious, but will PH'ing be allowed to the BCV quiet pool? (Not really interested in doing that, it would just be an easy place to go to if you get thrown out of SAB and an easy place to go and then just happen over to see if SAB is too crowded to allow a little unapproved hopping as well)

Paul