Update on Fort Improvements- with photos!

[Tri-circle-D]

The TCD crew made a visit to WDW over the past weekend. Didn't stay at the Fort, but I did make a surprise inspection visit on Saturday morning, September 6. These photos were all taken between 7:30 and 8:30 am:

First, I inspected the work on the 500 loop. For some reason, I had interpreted the information provided by the Fort management to mean that only some of the sites in certain loops would be upgraded to the new premium designation. That is clearly not the case in the 500 loop, as every site has been expanded, or is in the process of being expanded.

Here is an example of a site modification. The darker colored pavement is new:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908139.jpg

Notice that the utility poles have not been switched. These are still the concrete stumps that have been removed from a lot of the other loops. I will find it odd if these are not ultimately removed, and new utility hook ups moved to the back of the sites, like on some of the other loops, but I don't understand why this would not have been done before pouring the new concrete?

This is the site located along the sidewalk to the comfort station. It is now all concrete- no sand pad (or privacy) whatsoever:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908140.jpg


Here is a site that just has the concrete forms in place. You can see that they are making the entrances wider, in addition to paving the entire sand pad in the back:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908141.jpg

This is just a truck parked along the loop with debris that is to be hauled off:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908142.jpg

I think this shot may give you some perspective on how deep the new sites are going to be:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908143.jpg

Here is a pile of discarded materials from the concrete forms:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908144.jpg

(remember-no bare feet in the 500 loop for a while)

Here is a shot down towards the exit of the loop. These men were still setting the forms for the concrete in some of the last sites on the loop:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908145.jpg

This is a shot taken from the back of one of the sites. This is a worker's pick up. It is a small truck, but you can see how big these new concrete pads are:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908146.jpg

This is the back of one of the sites. That wood is an old form from a sand pad. You can see that there will not be room behind the sites for a tent or screen room:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908147.jpg

This is the entrance to the 500 loop:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908152.jpg

I find it odd that none of the existing obstructions around some of the sites have been moved. Here, you can see that the pavement has been expanded, but someone is going to hit these existing utility obstructions for sure:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908136.jpg

All of the picnic tables and grills are gone from the loop. I am not sure where they are going to put the grills. There is no sand area left. If the idea of the new sites is to eliminate obstructions, I would think the grills are going to be located away from the concrete, but there doesn't seem to be space left for the grills. We will have to wait and see.

After visiting the 500 loop, I headed out past the 300 loop and down to the Settlement area. I will post photos of what I saw there in my next post.

TCD

[clkelley]

Great pics!!

That last picture, they could have added a foot or two more of concrete and had a pull-through.

Also, a screen room on the back may still be doable. Since there is soft ground on the edges of concrete. Three legs of the screen room could be staked down, and a weight put on the 4th leg.

[Us3]

TCD was on a mission! I love it! ha

Thanks for the pics and looking forward to more!

[Tri-circle-D]

Great pics!!

That last picture, they could have added a foot or two more of concrete and had a pull-through.

Also, a screen room on the back may still be doable. Since there is soft ground on the edges of concrete. Three legs of the screen room could be staked down, and a weight put on the 4th leg.

Carol-

You are right about that last photo. There are going to be some issues created by these new larger sites. Say the camper in this site decides to set up all the way at the back of his site, and the camper at the other site in the photo has a slide out on the street side of his rig, they are going to be practically touching.

I have a couple more 500 loop photos:

This is one of the sites that backs up to Big Pine Drive- the dog park is right across the street from here:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908148.jpg

Here is a shot of a site prepped for a concrete pour. If you look carefully, you can see the forms and the outline of where the new pad will be:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908149.jpg

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

So, I heard that there was some work being done on the playground near the 300 loop.

Sure enough, there is new equipment, but there are some important things missing!

First of all, the swings are gone. This mulch area is where they used to be:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908150.jpg

My DD's are going to miss the swings here. :(

Here is a shot of the new equipment. Nice, but no lumberjack log roller, and no hand glider:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908151.jpg

Taking a look across the street, I see that there is a lot of standing water in the 400 loop:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908153.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908154.jpg

I head on down to the 100/200 loop entrance, and walk around the 100 loop to go to the Settlement area. Here is a nice set-up in a tent. This is a very clean and orderly site, and looks like a nice set up with the A/C:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908155.jpg

As I exited the 100 loop and head out toward the Settlement Trading Post, I see that the gate to the storage area behind the trading post is open. I wonder if there is anything interesting back there? Here's something!:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908156.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908157.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908158.jpg

Wow! Discovery Island! Why hasn't someone put that trash can on E-Bay?

Next, I head over to Trails' End to see what is going on there on this beautiful morning.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

It is around 8:15 when I reach Trails End.

Look at the golf cart parking area!:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908159.jpg

One golf cart!

Where is everyone?

Not in the restaurant!:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908160.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908161.jpg

Yes, that is the famous Ken!

Look at the porch!:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908165.jpg

The poor hostesses have nothing to do:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908164.jpg

Nothing happening here folks, time to move on:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908166.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908167.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908168.jpg

I hop a bus to the Meadows Trading Post to see what is going on around there.

TCD

[Us3]

Oh no! My girls loved those swings next to 300!! I have lots of good pics of them swinging there! :sad1:

Hehe, can't believe you went in the storage area...great pic!

[vick]

Thanks for all those pics. It makes me wish I was back at the Fort though!

[ynottony99]

Excellent reporting, as always!!!:thumbsup2 Waiting anxiously for more.popcorn::

[We4mickey]

Great post as usual. Love the pictures! You didn't by chance go around the 1700 loop did you. I want that loop, but don't know if it has changed from a pet loop yet or not.

[Tri-circle-D]

Oh no! My girls loved those swings next to 300!! I have lots of good pics of them swinging there! :sad1:

Hehe, can't believe you went in the storage area...great pic!

You can't believe I went into the storage area? Come on, now!

OK, so I make it to the Meadows area. Nothing looks different around here.

But, I have some interesting news from the 1100 loop.

Remember these photos were all taken on September 6, 2008.

Wait for it . . . .

Here it is . . . .

The first Halloween decorations are up!

These folks have their Mickey ghost and pumpkin lites up:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908163.jpg

I would say that this is way early, but the first Not So Scary Halloween Party of the season has already taken place at the Magic Kingdom.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

Great post as usual. Love the pictures! You didn't by chance go around the 1700 loop did you. I want that loop, but don't know if it has changed from a pet loop yet or not.


Yes, I actually have a lot to report about the 1600-1900 loop area, so check back. I have a few photos from the 1700 loop, and big news about the 1900 loop!

TCD

[ynottony99]

You can't believe I went into the storage area? Come on, now!

OK, so I make it to the Meadows area. Nothing looks different around here.

But, I have some interesting news from the 1100 loop.

Remember these photos were all taken on September 6, 2008.

Wait for it . . . .

Here it is . . . .

The first Halloween decorations are up!

These folks have their Mickey ghost and pumpkin lites up:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908163.jpg

I would say that this is way early, but the first Not So Scary Halloween Party of the season has already taken place at the Magic Kingdom.

TCD


It is a little early, but then one of the stores I service was putting out Christmas displays at the end of August, the week before they started with Halloween items.:rolleyes:

[PanFanAL]

Man I just love your trip reports. You should do a guide book or something. Everyone buys those books even us Disney know-it-alls. I bet one on just Fort Wilderness would sell great.

[Tri-circle-D]

Alright, from the 1100, I make a trip over to the 2000 loop. So we are all on the same page, this is a partial hook up loop, but they are supposed to be installing cable in this loop sometime before November (allegedly).

No changes here. So, no photos.

Next stop, 1700 loop.

The TCD gang spent Spring Break '08 here, and our site was empty, so I was able to give it a good look over.

I should mention that there were many open sites on every loop. You already saw what the Settlement Area looked like. It is slowww at the Fort!

So, in the 1700 loop, I am looking for evidence of cable TV installation.

I don't see anything new at the sites.

The utility hook ups on the 1700 loop are in metal boxes at the back of the sites. There are no concrete pseudo stumps here.

In the back of one of my old site, I see something new. This conduit was not here in March:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908170.jpg

I am not sure what all of this is. This black wire looks like television cable, but it is a lot thicker than what I have seen around the rest of the Fort, or at my house, for that matter. Here is a closer look:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908171.jpg

Anybody know what it is?

Perhaps this is a feeder cable, and service to the sites will branch off from here?

Otherwise, everything looks pretty much the same in the 1700 loop.

Next, back to the swamp (1800 and 1900 loops!) Big changes here!

TCD

[TxTink :)]

WOW- great info and awesome pics!:thumbsup2 Those sights look much easier to get into. I love see Fort pics! :)

[NLPRacing]

Thanks for the updates! How do the new pools look?

[Tri-circle-D]

So, on to the 1800 and 1900 loops . . .

I see that both of these loops are completely closed off.

Here is the entrance to the 1900 loop:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908172.jpg

and the entrance to the 1800 loop:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908173.jpg

It looks like whatever may have been done in the 1800 loop is complete.

But clearly, there is a lot going on in the 1900 loop.

There obviously was a lot of filling of low areas done.

There is new sod now around the perimeters of the concrete pads, and empty sod pallets are everywhere:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908175.jpg

This is the first site on the left as you enter the loop. There are bales of pine straw on the picnic table. You can see the new sod, and evidence of filling of the low areas:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908176.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908177.jpg

Here, you can see the low, swampy areas have been filled in. A lot. There was obviously heavy equipment in here. Looks like this poor trash can took one for the team:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908178.jpg

For those of you familiar with the 1900 loop, there were some very low areas in this loop that filled with water whenever there were prolonged rains. These areas have been filled-in extensively. This is a shot of the center portion of the loop:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908179.jpg

More work in progress:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908181.jpg

Here are a couple photos of the work vehicles parked in the sites:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908180.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908182.jpg

Travelling around the loop, you can see work has been done all around. None of these sites have been expanded. I look for evidence of cable installation. I think the gray conduit pipes next to the utility boxes are new. Also, this box had pvc connectors in it, which suggests that conduit has been recently installed. The conduit pipes are covered with a piece of duct tape, but there is nothing inside of the pipes:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908183.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908184.jpg

If you are familiar with the 1900 loop, this next photo will really show the amount of filling that has been done. There is one site right in the back of the loop, on the interior, where the loop curves around, that basically became an island when it rained. In this photo, you can see that all of the low areas have been filled in:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908185.jpg

We are talking about three or four feet of fill here. I hope that whoever is doing this work knows what they are doing. I have always heard that cypress trees and oaks cannot tolerate fill to a great extent. That is why a lot of parking lots and such in Florida have barriers constructed around trees that are left when a project is being developed. Typically, these trees are left at their natural grade. This fill obviously has been dumped right on the trees. I hope they make it.

If the trees make it, I think the 1900 loop is going to look a lot nicer when this work is all done. It will not be anywhere near as swampy, that is for sure.

Next up, a quick look at the 1800 loop.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

Thanks for the updates! How do the new pools look?

The pools have not been touched yet. I am not sure anything is going to be done to the cabin pool, and I don't think the work on the Meadows pool will start until winter gets here.

TCD

[Us3]

Wow!! 1900 looks sooo much better! I hope they continue this in all of the low spots at FW!!!

[ftwildernessguy]

Wow, the difference in the 1900 loop is AMAZING! What an improvement. I requested the 1800 loop for October - sure hope it's open by then. This really explains why, despite the campground seeming to be empty, there are no available sites - they've closed off a significant amount of the campground!

[TinaLala]

Excellent reporting, as always!!!:thumbsup2 Waiting anxiously for more.popcorn::

I'm sorry, but this person's video of a child and the chicken made me laugh for 10 minutes. I couldn't stop watching it!! :rotfl: :rotfl:


We're hoping to drive down in 2010 and stay at the Fort, I'm glad they are expanding the sites, but they definitely aren't thinking about it.

[Tri-circle-D]

Wow, the difference in the 1900 loop is AMAZING! What an improvement. I requested the 1800 loop for October - sure hope it's open by then. This really explains why, despite the campground seeming to be empty, there are no available sites - they've closed off a significant amount of the campground!

You are right about it being hard to get ressies- there are three loops totally closed right now. I would say that the 1800 loop should be re-opened soon. I am not sure about the 500 and 1900 loops.

When the work is done on the 1900 loop, I think it might actually be a nice loop to give a try. It certainly is one of the quietest loops.

TCD

[TomM]

Thank you for the pictures! We stayed in 1900 last October and vowed never to stay in that loop again. The fill will make a tremedous difference in that loop. Wish they would expand the sites, a least a little, our site was like a catwalk through a swamp.

[edcrbnsoul]

You didn't happen to get a picture of the wire coming out of the end of the conduit did you, I would be able to tell what they are running through there if you did (I work for the phone company) was it a bundle of wires or a single piece of coax like they run to the back of your TV ?

ETA: I was looking on line and found an article about the improvements they are doing I wonder if this cable is a bundle to provide cable and internet service to the sites?

August 25, 2008

Roughing it is not what it used to be, especially at Walt Disney World's Fort Wilderness Campground.

Disney is quietly undertaking its broadest campground-improvements program in two decades, adding extra-extra-large camper pads for recreational vehicles, cable-TV and Internet service throughout, Segway scooter tours, a mini-water park, a dog park, and an improved electric-cart rental operation.

The program also is taking aim at invasive plant species such as potato vines, replacing such vegetation with fresh native plantings.

"The fort is a treasure at Walt Disney World. There really is so much history with the success of Walt Disney World that stems back to Fort Wilderness," said Jean Gallagher, general manager of both Disney's Wilderness Lodge and Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort Campground. "And because of the nature of this property, and the theming, we really haven't done a lot of changes. ... We have not made a lot of investment from a site perspective in the 37 years we've been open. So this opportunity to meet what our guests are asking for, and how the industry has changed, this is more than we could expect."

Disney installed TV and Internet cable to select areas several years ago, and created three Wi-Fi hot spots. But now, Gallagher said, "What we are seeing is, everyone has a computer when they come here."

Never mind the people who cannot leave work behind, even in a campground, and feel a constant need to check e-mail, news and market updates on a regular basis. For today's teens and pre-teens, roughing it without the Internet is often going too far. That's why even veteran campers like Matthew McKown, 15, and his sisters Caroline, 13, and Nicole, 10, from Charleston, S.C., all said they missed having an Internet connection during their latest stay at Fort Wilderness a couple weeks ago, and look forward to having it next year. Their father, Phillip McKown, however, was less interested in the cable and Internet connections, still preferring to keep some semblance of being able to get away from the real world.

"It adds to the experience, camping here," he said. "It's like camping and you get to go to the parks. Going to a hotel room is just like going to a hotel room."

Linda Profaizer, president and chief executive officer of the National Association of RV Parks & Campgrounds, praised Disney's efforts to upgrade Fort Wilderness, saying her recent visits had told her it was time for some updating.

"It's a great property, but the sites are older," Profaizer said.

In particular, she said, campers' appetite for Internet service and cable TV has been growing for several years.

"All the parks do that today; it's very much a required service. It's a great thing to do," Profaizer said.

Do TV and Internet hookups at every campsite detract from a desire to get away from it all?

"Sadly, here's the deal," Profaizer said: "People want to be connected no matter what. You have to offer what the people expect."

Disney is also catching up with the trend toward larger RVs. The rolling vacation homes, which now often exceed 40 feet in length, have become wider in recent years, too, thanks to the popularity of "slide outs," those room extensions that pull out from the sides when the vehicle is parked.

For that reason, Disney is creating areas with what it calls "premium campsites," which will include much larger paved pads plus upgraded amenities such as grills and picnic tables. Those sites will cost $66 to $116 a night, depending on the season and day of the week.

Disney also is adding a themed water-slide and splash-zone attraction to The Meadows area pool. Fort Wilderness abuts River Country, Disney World's original water park, which closed a few years ago. Now designers and engineers are looking over what's left of that park, and they're thinking about moving and recycling the park's signature water tower to the Fort Wilderness pool and building a slide into it.

The Fort Wilderness overhaul comes as the industry wonders about what near-record-high gas prices will do to RV camping.

"For years we've been telling everybody you have to expand your sites because the industry is building the larger RVs in larger numbers. Now with the gas situation, we're wondering," Profaizer said. "We're wondering, No.1, will the manufacturers continue to build the big units? And two, the consumer, is that what people will still be wanting?"

For now, she said, the question is moot. There are plenty of house-size RVs on the road, so campgrounds need to accommodate them.

Disney does not release occupancy numbers for its individual resorts. But while Fort Wilderness seems as vulnerable as any resort to consumers' reactions to gas prices, the campground appeared to be holding its own, at least last year, according to remarks made by Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Officer Bob Iger during an earnings call last fall.

"We have a big RV park in Orlando, and I would think that they would be hit the hardest, because it's pretty expensive to fill up a tank in one of those babies," Iger told investors. Yet "those parks have been completely full. And there's demand going forward from a bookings perspective."

[2goofycampers]

Love the pix and the report, thanks TCD.

[Tri-circle-D]

You didn't happen to get a picture of the wire coming out of the end of the conduit did you, I would be able to tell what they are running through there if you did (I work for the phone company) was it a bundle of wires or a single piece of coax like they run to the back of your TV ?

ETA: I was looking on line and found an article about the improvements they are doing I wonder if this cable is a bundle to provide cable and internet service to the sites?


This is the only conduit that I saw with something in it. The wire was solid, and much bigger in diameter than the television cable that I am familiar with. This is about the diameter of a man's finger:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908171.jpg

What do you say? It isn't an electric wire, so what is it?

TCD

[edcrbnsoul]

It could be a larger coax they use to network the TV out to the sites before splitting it to the seperate sites. They would use a larger diameter and then split to the smaller gauge to distribute the signal from there. Someone who works CATV or SAT will probably correct me and tell me they haven't used that in years but that to the best of my CATV knowledge.


http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/Radio/coax-rg213-58-174.jpg


I was just looking at your photo and looks even larger then what I posted but it is probably the same idea.

[Tri-circle-D]

It could be a larger coax they use to network the TV out to the sites before splitting it to the seperate sites. They would use RG-213 if I remember correct and then split to the smaller gauge to distribute the signale from there. Someone who works CATV or SAT will probably correct me and tell me they haven't used that in years but that to the best of my CATV knowledge.


http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/Radio/coax-rg213-58-174.jpg


I was just looking at your photo and looks even larger then what I posted but it is probably the same idea.


Nicely done!

I would say that it was the rg213. ( I would always go with the rg213)

So, it looks like something is definitely happening cable-wise there in the 1700 loop!

I'll bet this is what feeds into those boxes that Verizon, et al are constantly installing around my house.


TCD

[kmurawski]

Thanks for the pics! I can't wait until December!

[VACAMPER]

Thank you so much! Great job as usual.:thumbsup2

[We4mickey]

TCD you are my DH's idol. :worship: He is really hoping we catch up with you in October. Keep the great secrets of Fort Wilderness coming!

[ftwildernessguy]

I would say for that situation, you're gonna wanna use your RG213 or 214, whichever works for ya.

[Gatordad]

they didn't start 1800 until after Labor Day. Not sure what they are doing over there, 500 was well underway at the time.

[Mickey Canada]

Great update. Thanks for sharing.

[Mickey Canada]

Heh .... check it out!!!

One month until we're at the Fort. Woohoo!! :woohoo:

It's been a long 10 yrs since my wife and I were last at the Fort.


:cool1: :dance3:

[edcrbnsoul]

I'll bet this is what feeds into those boxes that Verizon, et al are constantly installing around my house.


TCD


I'm betting it would be FIOS.

[edcrbnsoul]

I would say for that situation, you're gonna wanna use your RG213 or 214, whichever works for ya.


http://www.michaelkeatoncentral.com/mrmom/mrmom13.jpg

[Shannone1]

Great report as always TCD. I feel like we have our own spy !! :thumbsup2

We requested 1800 last time because we liked how quiet and away from the buses it is. I am anxious to hear your report about THAT loop because I know you didn't let those orange cones stop you ;)

[LONE-STAR]

Great report as always. Now I want the bigger site.

[tim5055]

For some reason, I had interpreted the information provided by the Fort management to mean that only some of the sites in certain loops would be upgraded to the new premium designation. That is clearly not the case in the 500 loop, as every site has been expanded, or is in the process of being expanded.

TCDThat was my original understanding also, I do hope that on future loops they "mix" the preferred and premium up a little. If not, they are going to have an overabundance of premium sites as well as the destruction of lots of vegetation (that they don't need to).

Great report, thanks!!!

[mrsscooter]

Maybe on your next surprise inspection you can check out the 1400 loop.....that is our preferred loop for our up coming grand gathering. Your reports are awesome......like someone said in an earlier post, its like we have our own personal Disboards Spy....LOL:cool2:

[clkelley]

That was my original understanding also, I do hope that on future loops they "mix" the preferred and premium up a little. If not, they are going to have an overabundance of premium sites as well as the destruction of lots of vegetation (that they don't need to).

Great report, thanks!!!

See, I read it that each loop upgraded was going to have all premium sites

[des1954]

TCD ---- YOU are da man!! I tried walking back into 500 over Labor Day weekend for some pictures and got chased out. I tried to go into 1900 over same weekend, and got chased out. (I really wanted some pictures for FtW Guy). We talked to one person on 1800 who had been at FtW IIRC for 3 months & Ft Management wanted her to move to another site for the last two days of her ressie so they could close 1800 & start working on it. She just left FtW instead & headed to the Crown Club at Lazy Days.

From the main road you could look into 500 & see how they were enlarging the sites. What I like about the new sites is no coquina!! I don't know what's ahead for the sites in 1800-1900, but they are definitely bringing in a lot of fill!! It's about time - some of those sites are downright dangerous!!

If you were there on 9/6, a lot was done to the playground. It was closed off on 8/30 to 9/1 & you couldn't see what was going on.

BTW... there was work done on Meadow Trading earlier in the summer. They put a new roof on it...but that was all.

[des1954]

I'm betting it would be FIOS.

That would be nice, but Verizon does not have land-line service in the Orlando area. Verizon's territory ends at US-27 & I-4. Now, I'm not saying it's not possible, but there would have to be major contractual agreements with Sprint (and FPSC allowances) in order for Verizon to cross into Sprint's territory & build Central Offices and build an outside plant to serve customers. The financial outlay would be astronomical. Tariffed local land-line companies still have first rights to their geographical territory.

[Shan-man]

TCD ---- YOU are da man!! I tried walking back into 500 over Labor Day weekend for some pictures and got chased out. I tried to go into 1900 over same weekend, and got chased out. (I really wanted some pictures for FtW Guy).

I think the key is to do your snooping at the crack of dawn, before the chaser-outters report for duty ;) All these pics were taken between 7 and 8 am. Early bird gets the scoop!

[tim5055]

That would be nice, but Verizon does not have land-line service in the Orlando area. Verizon's territory ends at US-27 & I-4. Now, I'm not saying it's not possible, but there would have to be major contractual agreements with Sprint (and FPSC allowances) in order for Verizon to cross into Sprint's territory & build Central Offices and build an outside plant to serve customers. The financial outlay would be astronomical. Tariffed local land-line companies still have first rights to their geographical territory.That is true, but Disney property is not in "Sprint" areas. All of Disney is an independent CLEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_local_exchange_carrier). Originally it was Vista-United Telecommunications, which was a company 51% owned by Disney and 49% owned by United Telephone of Florida (acquired by Sprint) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista-United_Telecommunications)

In 2001 Vista-United was acquired by Smart City Communications (https://www.smartcity.com/default.asp). From the Smart City Website:In March of 2001, Smart City acquired Vista-United Telecommunications, the former regulated telecom company operating as the telephone company to all of Walt Disney World and its surrounding communities.

Smart City Telecom now owns and operates the local public telephone system, which encompasses and services the Disney resort, the Disney conceived Master-Planned Community of Celebration and the mixed-use development of Little Lake Bryan. Smart City also owns and operates over 1,800 payphones in Central Florida, Nevada and Southern California.

Smart City Telecom’s service area consists of approximately 27,000 acres, or 42 square miles, located 15 miles southwest of the City of Orlando in Orange and Osceola Counties. Smart City Telecom’s largest customers are various direct and indirect subsidiaries of The Walt Disney Company. Smart City Telecom customers utilize Smart City Telecom services for residential, theme parks, hotels, restaurants, retail stores and extensive office and support facilities located throughout the Certificate Area.

Now, just as an aside. Sprint only retains land line service in Florida and Oregon. In 2004, Sprint and Nextel announced their merger and plans and to spin off its "Local Telecommunications Division" into an independent company named Embarq (http://www.embarq.com/).

So really, Smart City can do what they want, but I doubt a partnership with Verizon is something they would do.

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Thanks for the pictures! It's really awesome to see the photos (especialy for someone who's only gone to FW for the sing along LOL) and the progress.

I'm a little confused though- from the article posted it APPEARS they are saying that the premium sites will have grills and picnic tables- as if the preferred sites won't have those?

Carol-

You are right about that last photo. There are going to be some issues created by these new larger sites. Say the camper in this site decides to set up all the way at the back of his site, and the camper at the other site in the photo has a slide out on the street side of his rig, they are going to be practically touching.


wow you're right- they are totally going to be practically touching, if not actually touching! tight fit there...

[edcrbnsoul]

That would be nice, but Verizon does not have land-line service in the Orlando area. Verizon's territory ends at US-27 & I-4. Now, I'm not saying it's not possible, but there would have to be major contractual agreements with Sprint (and FPSC allowances) in order for Verizon to cross into Sprint's territory & build Central Offices and build an outside plant to serve customers. The financial outlay would be astronomical. Tariffed local land-line companies still have first rights to their geographical territory.


I'm sorry I should have quoted, TriCircle D said I bet thats what Verizon is running into the boxes around his house, thats what I meant by the FIOS comment.

P.S. I have WDW CLEC info, when I retire I would love to do some contract or PT work doing Central Office work at WDW.

[Tri-circle-D]

TCD you are my DH's idol. :worship: He is really hoping we catch up with you in October. Keep the great secrets of Fort Wilderness coming!

I am pretty sure that the TCD gang will be at the Fort from 10/30-11-2, 2008. If your DH is around at that time, then we will most definitely have to get together.

I would say for that situation, you're gonna wanna use your RG213 or 214, whichever works for ya.

LOL! :rotfl2:

http://www.michaelkeatoncentral.com/mrmom/mrmom13.jpg

ROTFL! :rotfl2:

Great report as always TCD. I feel like we have our own spy !! :thumbsup2

We requested 1800 last time because we liked how quiet and away from the buses it is. I am anxious to hear your report about THAT loop because I know you didn't let those orange cones stop you ;)

Well, although those red cones did seem pretty intimidating, you are correct that I did not let them stop me. I will be reporting on the 1800 loop in my next post.

That was my original understanding also, I do hope that on future loops they "mix" the preferred and premium up a little. If not, they are going to have an overabundance of premium sites as well as the destruction of lots of vegetation (that they don't need to).

Great report, thanks!!!

I agree with you. Having a loop with all premium sites is going to change the "feel" of the Fort in that particular loop. One of the things that I truly enjoy about the Fort is people watching. I started out as a tent camper, and I loved setting my tent in a preferred loop where I might be next to a million dollar motor home, or people in a hand made trailer. No matter where I have camped in the Fort, or what I have camped in, I have always loved the mix of people. There will not be as much of a mix of people in an all premium loop. But, I will adopt a wait and see attitude on this.

Maybe on your next surprise inspection you can check out the 1400 loop.....that is our preferred loop for our up coming grand gathering. Your reports are awesome......like someone said in an earlier post, its like we have our own personal Disboards Spy....LOL:cool2:

Will do. On my previous missions I mean visits to the Fort, there was a lot of survey work being done in the 1400 loop. I saw guys with construction drawings walking around, with detailed diagrams of the individual sites, so I expect substantial changes in the 1400 loop.

TCD ---- YOU are da man!! I tried walking back into 500 over Labor Day weekend for some pictures and got chased out. I tried to go into 1900 over same weekend, and got chased out. (I really wanted some pictures for FtW Guy). We talked to one person on 1800 who had been at FtW IIRC for 3 months & Ft Management wanted her to move to another site for the last two days of her ressie so they could close 1800 & start working on it. She just left FtW instead & headed to the Crown Club at Lazy Days.

From the main road you could look into 500 & see how they were enlarging the sites. What I like about the new sites is no coquina!! I don't know what's ahead for the sites in 1800-1900, but they are definitely bringing in a lot of fill!! It's about time - some of those sites are downright dangerous!!

If you were there on 9/6, a lot was done to the playground. It was closed off on 8/30 to 9/1 & you couldn't see what was going on.

BTW... there was work done on Meadow Trading earlier in the summer. They put a new roof on it...but that was all.

Deb- All of the photos on this thread were taken the morning of 9/6. So, they did indeed move quick on the playground and in the 1800 and 1900 loops. Also, without revealing too many of my trade secrets, one of the keys to being able to stay where you don't belong is acting like you are supposed to be there. The guys working on these loops are outside contractors. They actually waved at me and said hello as I conducted my inspection.

I think the key is to do your snooping at the crack of dawn, before the chaser-outters report for duty ;) All these pics were taken between 7 and 8 am. Early bird gets the scoop!

You are correct, sir. Plus the early morning light is usually good for the photos.

Thanks for the pictures! It's really awesome to see the photos (especialy for someone who's only gone to FW for the sing along LOL) and the progress.

I'm a little confused though- from the article posted it APPEARS they are saying that the premium sites will have grills and picnic tables- as if the preferred sites won't have those?



What I understand is that the premium sites are going to have "upgraded" grills and picnic tables. Oh boy! I really want to see upgraded grills and picnic tables! Aside from the extra concrete, that is all that will distinguish a preferred site from a premium site. All of the sites in the Fort have grills and picnic tables. Until now, they have all been the same (although some picnic tables are newer and some larger than others). Now, there are going to be upgraded grills and picnic tables. I am tingling with excitement!

Anybody else have any questions? Ask 'em if you got 'em, but for now, on with the report. . .

TCD

[des1954]

That is true, but Disney property is not in "Sprint" areas. All of Disney is an independent CLEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competitive_local_exchange_carrier). Originally it was Vista-United Telecommunications, which was a company 51% owned by Disney and 49% owned by United Telephone of Florida (acquired by Sprint) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista-United_Telecommunications)

Originally, originally.... it was simply United Telephone - which Disney had no control or say so over. In a telecommunication decision of IIRC the mid-80's, independant equipment & ld companies were allowed to complete with local telco's. CLEC's weren't around until 1996 when the FCC forced the local telco's to sell services to independent telco's.

In 2001 Vista-United was acquired by Smart City Communications (https://www.smartcity.com/default.asp). From the Smart City Website:

Now, just as an aside. Sprint only retains land line service in Florida and Oregon. In 2004, Sprint and Nextel announced their merger and plans and to spin off its "Local Telecommunications Division" into an independent company named Embarq (http://www.embarq.com/).

So really, Smart City can do what they want, but I doubt a partnership with Verizon is something they would do.

I forgot about the Smart City acqusition! DH & I gave very brief consideration to working for them after we both retired from Verizion in 02 (DH) & 03 (Me). 30+ years in telecommunications was quite enough for both of us!

I'm sure Smart Citywill has their own version of "FIOS" ready to go. Only the name is SM'd, not the technology.

[Tri-circle-D]

Continuing on with the report . . .

From the 1900 loop, I venture over to the 1800 loop, which is also closed off. I entered the loop from the sidewalk near the comfort station. It was not blocked off.

Looking around the loop, I do not see anything obviously changed. There are the same gray conduit pipes next the utility box in each site. Also empty at the moment, and covered with a piece of duct tape. I am not sure if there is going to be any significant site work or fill done on this loop. It is not anywhere near as swampy as the 1900 loop.

I noticed a tree that I had never noticed before:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908001.jpg

Are you seeing what I am seeing?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908002.jpg

I am sure the all the fruit fishers out there already know about this spot. But, let's keep this our little Dis secret, so that there will be enough fruit for everyone.

Here's the site number for your future reference:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908003.jpg

Again, mum's the word on this tree. I would say the fruit will be ripe by December, and if someone takes it all, I will find you. ;)

OK, so I have completed my loop inspections for this trip. It is time to look for the new golf cart rental facility that I have heard of, so I set out looking for that.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

It has been reported on the board that the golf cart rental operation is going to be moved from the Bike Barn to a new facility that will be convenient to guests checking in at the Reception Outpost.

This sounds good to me, but I have had trouble visualising where there is a place near the Reception Outpost where this would work. I set out to find it.

I find. . . .

Nothing.

I did find this new path/road which enters the parking lot just past the check in lanes, but I don't think this is going to be where they would put the new golf cart rental facility, is it?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908193.jpg

This photo is taken from inside the Fort, looking out toward the check-in lanes.

Anybody know where the new golf cart facility is going to be?

IMHO, its current location is most convenient for campers. The Bike Barn is about as centrally located as you can get. True, it is not convenient for the cabins, but it is for the campsites.

Maybe there is no truth to the rumored relocation?

I will have to investigate this one further on my next visit.

TCD

[bigdisneydaddy]

I was told that it will be the building just to the right of where that path goes. You can see the building from an aerial pic but not from the ground, I believe the driveway to it is at the entrance near the main road.

[3gr8kids]

I think the key is to do your snooping at the crack of dawn, before the chaser-outters report for duty ;) All these pics were taken between 7 and 8 am. Early bird gets the scoop!

I'm pretty sure the hard hat and orange vest he wore and the "construction plans" he carried helped!

TCD - you're like some sort of chameleon! :lmao:

[loveDmouse]

You are AWESOME TCD!!!!!! :thumbsup2
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Thanks for posting all the pics. It is exciting to see work going on at the Fort. I will be glad when they start the 800 loop since that is where we are suppose to be in December in a premium site. We usually go for 1400 loop but that wasn't going to be done until the first of the year and I wanted to try out one of the new sites with our new rig.

Do you think they will have to remove Little Bear from 1400 in order to make room for these new sites? I just thought about that. Seems they don't have that much room unless they are planning on just not having as many sites in that loop. :confused3 :confused3 Although I guess they might. Last trip we were on the outside on the creek. First trip we were on the inside of the Big Bear loop but I don't remember how much room there was to the sites on Little Bear. Ok, I will stop rambling.

[Tri-circle-D]

I was told that it will be the building just to the right of where that path goes. You can see the building from an aerial pic but not from the ground, I believe the driveway to it is at the entrance near the main road.


Well, there is room for this here, and this roadway is new.

Here is an aerial of the location that you are referring to:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/FrontGate-1-1.jpg

The red star is where the new drive way in my previous post has been installed.

On a future visit, I have on my "to-do" list a visit to this group of utility/maintenance buildings. I am not sure what these are really used for, as there is another big maintenance area that is accessed through the 1700 loop, and via a road off of the main road. Seems like a lot of maintenance facilities for a campground.

I do not think I am going to like having the golf cart rentals up front like this. I rent carts a lot, and would rather walk to the Bike Barn than have to catch a bus up to the Reception area. Oh well . . .

TCD

[loveDmouse]

See, I read it that each loop upgraded was going to have all premium sites

That is the way I read it too!

[Tri-circle-D]

I decided to post another aerial photo showing the area that BDD mentioned as the possible new site for the golf cart facilities:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/FortEntrance-1.jpg

Has anyone else heard that this is where the golf cart rentals are being moved to?

Looks like there is room here, and it would be convenient to guests as they check in. I see some safety issues with carts vs. RV's vs pedestrians, but I guess that can all be addressed.

I will keep an eye on this.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

Do you think they will have to remove Little Bear from 1400 in order to make room for these new sites? I just thought about that. Seems they don't have that much room unless they are planning on just not having as many sites in that loop. :confused3 :confused3 Although I guess they might. Last trip we were on the outside on the creek. First trip we were on the inside of the Big Bear loop but I don't remember how much room there was to the sites on Little Bear. Ok, I will stop rambling.

I have actually wondered about this myself. There is a good amount of space between the sites on the inside and outside loops on 1400, at least in most areas. I don't think it makes business sense to reduce the number of sites, so I doubt that they will eliminate Little Bear Path, or make the sites long pull through sites, as some have suggested. But, because of how some sites are configured, I am not sure that it will be possible to make every site in the 1400 loop a premium site.

You bring up an interesting point about some of the sites that back up to the canal, especially the ones closest to the Meadows area. On many of those sites, there is no much room between the end of the sand pad and the canal bank. I wonder if they will pave these sites so far back? It would increase the chance of someone backing into the canal!

TCD

[des1954]

When I was at FtW over Labor Day the girl who ran the Archery Lessons (and also works the Bike Barn) said she had not heard of any plans to relocate the Golf Cart rentals to the front. But...that and $1.00 will get you a cuppa joe....as they say.

The only thing I see remiss in putting the GC rental in the area we are all speculating on is... with as busy as the front can be during heavy check-in periods, and the bus traffic, and returning guest traffic...it could get a little dicey at times with GC's. On the other hand...if they re-vamp the entire entrance and check-in facilities, you could check in and get a cart all in one stop. I'm thinking this would really benefit the cabin people & the people coming in on the DME. I wonder if anyone has thought of that???

Also, there is a lot of work being done at the front of the overflow parking lot. TCD...have you found out what that's all about yet?

[Tri-circle-D]

Also, there is a lot of work being done at the front of the overflow parking lot. TCD...have you found out what that's all about yet?

Patience, Deb, Patience.

There is a lot of work being done around the overflow lot. I will be including that in my report.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

So, moving on, I head on out of the Fort, past the kennel.

The kennel area looks good.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908197.jpg

I notice ponies in the horse pasture. I don't recall seeing ponies here before:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908196.jpg

As Deb mentioned, there is a lot of work going on the overflow lot:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908194.jpg

Here we have some obvious professionals on the job. One gentleman seated to supervise, two gentlemen leaning on their shovels, and one gentleman driving the tractor. Way to go guys!:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908195.jpg

This work all seems to be related to an expansion of maybe 10 feet of the parking lot? I think there is more to it than that, as I see a large drainage grate waiting to be installed, and there is substantial work going on out by the road.

This is out toward the far corner of the parking lot. It looks like a big retention pond is being dug:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908198.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908199.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908200.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908201.jpg

Sorry, but I could not get a good shot over the fence. They are digging pretty deep here, and a large area of trees has been cleared. It looks like just a drainage project. I am not sure why a project of this magnitude is being done here. The parking lot and adjacent roads have all been in place a long time. I don't know of any flooding problems that they have had in this area. I'm not sure why they need to do this work now. Strange.

And with that, I am done.

No more photos from this quick trip.

But, I am going back to actually camp in October.

By then, some of this work will be done, and more will be underway (maybe?). Either way, I'll be back with an update.

TCD

[Gatordad]

always look forward to your reports. Keep up the good work. I was there for 4 days, and didn't pay attention to as much as you did.

[Tri-circle-D]

always look forward to your reports. Keep up the good work. I was there for 4 days, and didn't pay attention to as much as you did.

Well, I know you were busy drinking beer and socializing. I was there on a mission. Next time at the fort, I'll be doing the beer drinking and socializing, too.

TCD

[big kahuna1]

When we were there during the LDGG they were actually filling in the front area.

[Us3]

Well, I know you were busy drinking beer and socializing. I was there on a mission. Next time at the fort, I'll be doing the beer drinking and socializing, too.

TCD

Stop by and have a beer...we'll be there at the end of October. I'm sure you can find us! ;)

Enjoyed your report as always! :thumbsup2

[Gatordad]

Well, I know you were busy drinking beer and socializing. I was there on a mission. Next time at the fort, I'll be doing the beer drinking and socializing, too.

TCD

That was my mission. I was undercover protecting the beer supply.

[des1954]

That was my mission. I was undercover protecting the beer supply.

You should have been guarding the blender....the beer was my territory!

TCD...if you're at FtW over Halloween Weekend...look for all of us & stop by for a brewski or blender brew! I'd enjoy meeting the master of sleuth, the man behind the camera, the man on the scene, story-meister extraordinaire, the one, the ONLY.....TTTTTTTTTT.....CCCCCCCCCC.....DDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDD!!!

(Thunderous Applause and Cheers from the Masses!)

[LarryJ]

Are you seeing what I am seeing?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908002.jpg

I am sure the all the fruit fishers out there already know about this spot. But, let's keep this our little Dis secret, so that there will be enough fruit for everyone.

TCD

:thumbsup2 :woohoo: I'm all over that like the proverbial fly :lmao: , but I like the grapefruits better, but those have the most seeds I have ever seen, but the price is right and for me height is not an obstacle. Now catching the fruit before it hits the ground so it doesn't bruise, that's the challenge. I may have to bring my juicer with me this next trip for some fresh squeezed OJ.

Larry

Larry

[MadFF]

Cool thread!

About a month and a half and we will be there!

[Gatordad]

You should have been guarding the blender....the beer was my territory!

TCD...if you're at FtW over Halloween Weekend...look for all of us & stop by for a brewski or blender brew! I'd enjoy meeting the master of sleuth, the man behind the camera, the man on the scene, story-meister extraordinaire, the one, the ONLY.....TTTTTTTTTT.....CCCCCCCCCC.....DDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDD!!!

(Thunderous Applause and Cheers from the Masses!)

We brought like 7 of those mixers, and I had only like 2 glasses, I'm the beer security guy.

[RvUsa]

TCD you are my hero!! Love it as always.

As far as the big excavation project by the parking lot, I would have to say that it MIGHT be where they are getting the fill to fill in between the sites. And there may be some regulations, if you remove wet areas, you need to replace it elsewhere.

This is just my humble opinion, I am in no way a pro like you...... ;):thumbsup2

[des1954]

We brought like 7 of those mixers, and I had only like 2 glasses, I'm the beer security guy.

I bought 2 bottles of rum and had ZERO blender brews (of course - I don't know HOW many Renee kept pouring into DH's 16oz tumbler :eek: ). You must have allowed me the secret, unlimited beer priviledges, Pete. I am honored!

[DznyRulz]

If you are familiar with the 1900 loop, this next photo will really show the amount of filling that has been done. There is one site right in the back of the loop, on the interior, where the loop curves around, that basically became an island when it rained. In this photo, you can see that all of the low areas have been filled in:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908185.jpg

We are talking about three or four feet of fill here.

Wow, that is a real big change since August.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/DznyFan/Fort%20Wilderness%20-%202008/P1000972.jpg

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/DznyFan/Fort%20Wilderness%20-%202008/P1000970.jpg

[christinou]

Thanks for the updates this is great, I want to make reservations for next summer, but I still am not sure as what site I want preferred or premium. I really like the 800 loop and we always stay there, so I want to maximize my chance of getting that loop, I understand it will have premium sites, I just am not sure if it is the entire loop or some sites, as I was told by a cast member this past August.

[Tri-circle-D]

You should have been guarding the blender....the beer was my territory!

TCD...if you're at FtW over Halloween Weekend...look for all of us & stop by for a brewski or blender brew! I'd enjoy meeting the master of sleuth, the man behind the camera, the man on the scene, story-meister extraordinaire, the one, the ONLY.....TTTTTTTTTT.....CCCCCCCCCC.....DDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDDD!!!

(Thunderous Applause and Cheers from the Masses!)


Deb- I will be there! When the date gets closer, I will jump in the Grand Gathering thread to find out the details. Are you all trying to get in a particular loop?

:thumbsup2 :woohoo: I'm all over that like the proverbial fly :lmao: , but I like the grapefruits better, but those have the most seeds I have ever seen, but the price is right and for me height is not an obstacle. Now catching the fruit before it hits the ground so it doesn't bruise, that's the challenge. I may have to bring my juicer with me this next trip for some fresh squeezed OJ.

Larry

Larry

Larry- I am pretty sure that this is a grapefruit tree, not an orange tree. The fruit are the size of small grapefruit now, and I expect that they will grow some more as they ripen.

TCD you are my hero!! Love it as always
As far as the big excavation project by the parking lot, I would have to say that it MIGHT be where they are getting the fill to fill in between the sites. And there may be some regulations, if you remove wet areas, you need to replace it elsewhere.

This is just my humble opinion, I am in no way a pro like you...... ;):thumbsup2

John- You might be right. Fill dirt is expensive, so it could be that this is where the fill is coming from. On the other hand, the Four Seasons project is going on right next door, so they wouldn't need to dig a pit in the parking lot just for the fill. Who knows?

Wow, that is a real big change since August.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/DznyFan/Fort%20Wilderness%20-%202008/P1000972.jpg

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/DznyFan/Fort%20Wilderness%20-%202008/P1000970.jpg

Chris- Thanks for the before photos! The difference is remarkable. I don't think that either of your photos are of this particular site, but your photos depict what the 1900 loop used to look like. On the day of my visit, it had almost no standing water- which made it one of the driest loops that I visited. I still am not sure that all the trees aren't going to struggle, though. They filled in all around the trees-over the roots-and right up to the trunks. I am sure that is not the way it is supposed to be done.

Thanks for the updates this is great, I want to make reservations for next summer, but I still am not sure as what site I want preferred or premium. I really like the 800 loop and we always stay there, so I want to maximize my chance of getting that loop, I understand it will have premium sites, I just am not sure if it is the entire loop or some sites, as I was told by a cast member this past August.

I hope that they don't make all of the sites on the 800 loop premium sites. Not everyone needs all that concrete! Like I already said, I didn't think that every site on the 500 loop was going to become a premium site, but it looks like that is what they did. We will have to wait and see on the other loops.

TCD

[Shan-man]

On the day of my visit, it had almost no standing water- which made it one of the driest loops that I visited. I still am not sure that all the trees aren't going to struggle, though. They filled in all around the trees-over the roots-and right up to the trunks. I am sure that is not the way it is supposed to be done.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I sure hope that this is not some intentional move to kill the trees. If Disney wanted to completely redesign the loops they would catch h*ll for clear-cutting native trees in a wildlife preserve (which I understand FW to be). But, if the trees died due to accident (blame bad horticultural advice) then they could start with a blank slate. I know, I sound like an extremist, but is it really any more lame-brained than replacing 20,000 Leagues with a Pooh Playground?!

[DznyRulz]

I hope that they don't make all of the sites on the 800 loop premium sites. Not everyone needs all that concrete! Like I already said, I didn't think that every site on the 500 loop was going to become a premium site, but it looks like that is what they did. We will have to wait and see on the other loops.

It would behoove Disney to leave at least half of the sites full hook up. The new rate for the premium sites is going to drive away business.

[ftwildernessguy]

Now that I think of it, it's a shame the 1900 loop is going to lose that island feel. Oh well. The tree situation may be a real concern - these cypress trees are meant to be in water, with the roots exposed like in Chris' photos.

[des1954]

They were beginning the "great fill of 1900" over labor day weekend. The cypress trees are probably going to lose.

Shan-man...FtW is not any kind of preserve. It was privately owned citrus groves and swamp before Walt went on his secretive shopping spree, which is why you still see some fruit trees around FtW and all the cypress trees. There are wetland regulations, which is what you may be thinking of.

I don't know about Orange County, but in Sarasota and Manatee Counties, any tree you wanted to cut down that had a trunk over 8" in diameter required a permit unless the tree was diseased or otherwise unsafe. The only exceptions to this rule (IIRC) were pine trees and cabbage palm trees. You could pull out all of those that you wanted. Tree removal is regulated by the county and not the state.

The only plants I know of that are illegal to remove under any circumstances are: sea grape trees, mangroves, and sea oats. These are all coastal plants and do not grow inland in Florida.

[F4disneyfan]

It could be a larger coax they use to network the TV out to the sites before splitting it to the seperate sites. They would use a larger diameter and then split to the smaller gauge to distribute the signal from there. Someone who works CATV or SAT will probably correct me and tell me they haven't used that in years but that to the best of my CATV knowledge.


http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/Radio/coax-rg213-58-174.jpg


I was just looking at your photo and looks even larger then what I posted but it is probably the same idea.

That is exactly what this cable is for I have used it many many times for wireless networing from our antenna to the ditribution block on our towers when I worked in that industry. It is also what our local cable company runs to the main distribution boxes along the streets then into a distributor block then out the the individual homes.

[Tri-circle-D]

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I sure hope that this is not some intentional move to kill the trees. If Disney wanted to completely redesign the loops they would catch h*ll for clear-cutting native trees in a wildlife preserve (which I understand FW to be). But, if the trees died due to accident (blame bad horticultural advice) then they could start with a blank slate. I know, I sound like an extremist, but is it really any more lame-brained than replacing 20,000 Leagues with a Pooh Playground?!

I can't see a reason that they would intentionally want to kill these trees. I think it is just carelessness.

It is amazing to me that they are able to do things like this. In my county over here on the west coast of Florida, before you can get a building permit, you have to provide a tree survey, and you must protect the trees by building barriers around them before the site work is done. As you can see in this one photo, in addition to filling right up to the tree trunks, a lot of the trees got scraped and banged up in the process:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908175-1.jpg

The first house that my wife and I bought after we were married was in a new development here in Florida where the developer had left a lot of the native trees to create a wooded feel. Well, after about two or three years, everybody's trees started dying off. Their roots had been damaged during construction, and the developer had filled in all around the trees when grading the lots. We eventually lost about 75% of the trees. I am no expert, so I can't say that is going to happen at the Fort, but I don't like the looks of things. It is going to look great at first, but only time will tell.

TCD

[Shan-man]

Shan-man...FtW is not any kind of preserve. It was privately owned citrus groves and swamp before Walt went on his secretive shopping spree, which is why you still see some fruit trees around FtW and all the cypress trees. There are wetland regulations, which is what you may be thinking of.

Well, I guess this is another instance of smoke-blowing CMs! It was a boat launch operator who was waxing on about the brilliance of Disney getting Fort Wilderness acknowledged as a wildlife preserve (or maybe, forestry reserve), reaping the tax benefits of that determination, and still being able to make money off guests staying there. I nodded enthusiastically that it was brilliant... apparently I wasn't so! DoH!

That said, I cannot believe this filling is being done in ignorance. Disney has a huge horticultural department, and it seems most amateurs even around here know you can't bury exposed roots or change the crown height around trees without ill effects.

[des1954]

Well, I guess this is another instance of smoke-blowing CMs! It was a boat launch operator who was waxing on about the brilliance of Disney getting Fort Wilderness acknowledged as a wildlife preserve (or maybe, forestry reserve), reaping the tax benefits of that determination, and still being able to make money off guests staying there. I nodded enthusiastically that it was brilliant... apparently I wasn't so! DoH!

That said, I cannot believe this filling is being done in ignorance. Disney has a huge horticultural department, and it seems most amateurs even around here know you can't bury exposed roots or change the crown height around trees without ill effects.

Oh... they know exactly what they are doing. When the trees start dying, they will be considered hazards and they can take them down without asking a soul. So perhaps...that is Disney's "brilliance". However, I pity the poor soul who ends up with a tree branch thru the roof of their RV as a result of the trees dying. Disney won't pay...I know...my in-law's got a pine branch thru their awning and the "suits" at FtW basically told them that's what their RV insurance was for. They didn't even get a free Mickey Bar! BAH!!!

What I would like to know is...where is all the rain water going to run off to now that they've filled in the "holes"???

[des1954]

By the way & for those who are interested.... there is a Disney Wilderness Preserve just to the south of WDW. I look at this as a "trade-off", allowing Disney the priviledge of doing whatever they wish to their resort properties, while still "maintaining" the perception of wetlands preservation.

http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/florida/preserves/art5523.html

[LarryJ]

I can't see a reason that they would intentionally want to kill these trees. I think it is just carelessness.

It is amazing to me that they are able to do things like this. In my county over here on the west coast of Florida, before you can get a building permit, you have to provide a tree survey, and you must protect the trees by building barriers around them before the site work is done. As you can see in this one photo, in addition to filling right up to the tree trunks, a lot of the trees got scraped and banged up in the process:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908175-1.jpg

The first house that my wife and I bought after we were married was in a new development here in Florida where the developer had left a lot of the native trees to create a wooded feel. Well, after about two or three years, everybody's trees started dying off. Their roots had been damaged during construction, and the developer had filled in all around the trees when grading the lots. We eventually lost about 75% of the trees. I am no expert, so I can't say that is going to happen at the Fort, but I don't like the looks of things. It is going to look great at first, but only time will tell.

TCD

I could be mistakened, but WDW is not like a normal county and even has it's own county type zoning entity (Reedy Creek) and was done because normal building codes, etc. could never have addressed things like Epcot Earth and many of the other unique buildings that Walt wanted.

WDW is sort of it's own county and unique is how it operates.

Larry

[rapriebe]

What I would like to know is...where is all the rain water going to run off to now that they've filled in the "holes"???

That's what I was wondering also. Probably a distinct possibility that the campsites will flood or else there is going to be alot of water around on the roadways??? Going to be interesting to see what happens. But it definitely looks much better; more usable space on each campsite.

[des1954]

I could be mistakened, but WDW is not like a normal county and even has it's own county type zoning entity (Reedy Creek) and was done because normal building codes, etc. could never have addressed things like Epcot Earth and many of the other unique buildings that Walt wanted.

WDW is sort of it's own county and unique is how it operates.

Larry

Nope! Disney is spread over two counties... Osceola & Orange & all buildings have to meet these county inspections & regulations. The very western part of Animal Kingdom bridges into the Verizon local service area, and I handled most of the land line service orders for that part of the park when it was under constructon - which meant I was a sort of "liaison" between Disney engineers & Verizon engineers. Several orders had to be put on hold due to Osceola County inspectors either not arriving as scheduled, or not passing an inspection.

Reedy Creek is an "improvement district".... whatever the heck that means. It is neither a city or a county. Sort of reminds me of Washington D.C. ---the city without a state. (LOL) I do know that the RCID had a big say over the development of Epcot, but I don't think they could over ride the actual county inspectors. I'm sure that there were a lot of turned heads & nods of approval between the two "governments" due to the unique architecture found at Epcot.

The actual cities that most of WDW are in are: Lake Buena Vista & Bay Lake. They also slightly spread into Davenport & just a whisker into Lake County. I'm speaking of the resort properties as a whole - and not of other Disney holdings or operations in other parts of Florida that the regular guest - or the average CM's for that matter - would know about.

Here's a link to the RCID:

http://www.rcid.org/index.cfm

[Gatordad]

We have a CDD which is basically the same thing, although we use the county for Fire and Sheriff.

[OK GRUMPY]

This is very interesting. We stayed in the 1800 loop last April and I could have easliy gotten that Island sensation! I'm curious to see the 1800 loop after the improvements have been done. I'm also curious as to how it will effect the trees and what will happen to the water run off.

[LONE-STAR]

They were beginning the "great fill of 1900" over labor day weekend. The cypress trees are probably going to lose.

Shan-man...FtW is not any kind of preserve. It was privately owned citrus groves and swamp before Walt went on his secretive shopping spree, which is why you still see some fruit trees around FtW and all the cypress trees. There are wetland regulations, which is what you may be thinking of.

I don't know about Orange County, but in Sarasota and Manatee Counties, any tree you wanted to cut down that had a trunk over 8" in diameter required a permit unless the tree was diseased or otherwise unsafe. The only exceptions to this rule (IIRC) were pine trees and cabbage palm trees. You could pull out all of those that you wanted. Tree removal is regulated by the county and not the state.

The only plants I know of that are illegal to remove under any circumstances are: sea grape trees, mangroves, and sea oats. These are all coastal plants and do not grow inland in Florida.

I can't see a reason that they would intentionally want to kill these trees. I think it is just carelessness.

It is amazing to me that they are able to do things like this. In my county over here on the west coast of Florida, before you can get a building permit, you have to provide a tree survey, and you must protect the trees by building barriers around them before the site work is done. As you can see in this one photo, in addition to filling right up to the tree trunks, a lot of the trees got scraped and banged up in the process:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/Jonas908175-1.jpg

The first house that my wife and I bought after we were married was in a new development here in Florida where the developer had left a lot of the native trees to create a wooded feel. Well, after about two or three years, everybody's trees started dying off. Their roots had been damaged during construction, and the developer had filled in all around the trees when grading the lots. We eventually lost about 75% of the trees. I am no expert, so I can't say that is going to happen at the Fort, but I don't like the looks of things. It is going to look great at first, but only time will tell.

TCD

Wow as far as I know in Texas if you can start a chain saw you can cut it down.

[Tri-circle-D]

To further muddy the waters . . . .

Part of the land within the confines of Ft. Wilderness is some type of preserve.

I took this photo in April 2008:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/arodnite/FortWildernessSpringBreak08023.jpg

This was taken on the path that leads from the canal that borders the 1500, 1600 and 1800 loops.

In this photo, I have marked the approximate area where this sign was posted with a red star. The tree was facing out from the area behind the1800 and 1900 loops, which would suggest to me that it was referring to the land between the loops and this sign:


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/arodnite/Fort-1.jpg

As for concerns about flooding in the 1900 loop, there was extensive work done on the canal that is adjacent to this loop, which I have marked with an arrow above.

Here are a few photos that I took in April 2008 from the 1900 loop, showing the work going on in the canal area:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/arodnite/Dcgamez006.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/arodnite/Dcgamez005.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/arodnite/Dcgamez004.jpg

So, hopefully, the drainage concern has been addressed.

The bottom line seems to be that Disney can do whatever the heck it wants to with its land.

TCD

[DisneyBishops]

Disney is its own government. It doesn't have to abide by any rules from the county or state.

[chief19spixi]

I just saw all the updated pics of the fort!! I can't wait to see more!! woo hoo!!!

[ftwildernessguy]

Disney is its own government. It doesn't have to abide by any rules from the county or state.

I think we've been around this topic before, Dan. While Disney originally founded the Reedy Creek Improvement District to bypass local zoning restrictions, it is no longer the case. They now have to file for permits and go through all the local and state regulations everybody else does. If nothing else, it's made it much easier for people on the internet to figure out what Disney's plans are, since the permit filings are on the public record. When I used to have more time, I used to look them up and wade through them to see if I could figure out Disney's plans.

[DisCamper]

Reedy Creek is a city and to have a city you must have residents. This is the resident of Reedy Creek houses. http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.nqy1wm865rpz_Reedy%20Creek____&encType=1
Click on birds eye to see photo.

[tim5055]

Reedy Creek is a city and to have a city you must have residents. This is the resident of Reedy Creek houses. http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.nqy1wm865rpz_Reedy%20Creek____&encType=1
Click on birds eye to see photo.Reedy Creek is both a city and the name of the Improvement district. There are actually two cities on Disney Property, the other being Lake Buena Vista. As any other city in FL., they have a commission and mayor. The only official function of these bodies is to vote one a year the "contract" all services form the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The "residents" in the two cities are all Disney employees who rent the homes from Disney.

As tot eh earlier point, RCID still handles all permitting for Disney property. They follow all state laws, but have their own building/zoning laws which differ from the two counties the property sits in.

[des1954]

I found the picture of this sign that TCD took very hopeful IMHO...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/arodnite/FortWildernessSpringBreak08023.jpg

A "wetland" is:

Wetlands are ecosystems typically found on the transition between terrestrial and aquatic systems. In order to be classified as a wetland, an area typically has at least one of the following 3 characteristics:

a water table at or near the ground's surface during the growing season (including when the land is covered by shallow water)
poorly drained or hydric soils
be home to a unique diversity of wildlife and vegetation specifically adapted to thrive in wet environments.This is from the Univ. of Fla website: http://wetlandextension.ifas.ufl.edu/about.htm

It really makes me happy that environmental regulators are enforcing wetland protection - even at WDW. I do know from personal experience that "palms can be greased" to by-pass wetlands regulations & I truly hope that is not the case at FtW. Wetlands impact the whole ecosystem. In the building booms of Florida in the 50's - 70's, much of the wetlands of the everglades were drained in order to put up housing developments, shopping centers, etc. Florida is still suffering the effects of this today. But thanks to the "tree huggers", the everglades are now in a state of recovery.

I said it before, and I'll say it again....TCD is a true super-sleuth & story conveyer extraordinaire!!

[DisCamper]

My dad worked for WEDD on the 70’s and into the 80”s in the early to mid 80’s WDW was looking to break away for Orange county and start it own county to save on paying taxes and would still have control over everything.

[des1954]

Reedy Creek is both a city and the name of the Improvement district. There are actually two cities on Disney Property, the other being Lake Buena Vista. As any other city in FL., they have a commission and mayor. The only official function of these bodies is to vote one a year the "contract" all services form the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The "residents" in the two cities are all Disney employees who rent the homes from Disney.

As tot eh earlier point, RCID still handles all permitting for Disney property. They follow all state laws, but have their own building/zoning laws which differ from the two counties the property sits in.

Tim... I'm not sure where you are getting your info from, but this page on the RCID website does not tout it as a "city", but rather a "district" that contains the cities of Lake Buena Vista & Bay Lake. Under their list of administrators, there is no mention of a mayor. My curiosity has been pequed now, because I've always wondered just what the RCID was.

Here's the web link to RCID:

http://www.rcid.org/AboutUS_main.cfm

Edit to add: In digging a little deeper on the history of RCID, it looks like it was formed by the Florida State Legislature in 1967 as a separate entity to govern the development of WDW. Now the next question would be... Do the people who sit on the administrative board also appear on the Disney payroll?? Hmmmm....

[DisCamper]

I love the renaming of thing
1. Wetlands= swamp
2. Certified Pre-owned = used
3. Land fill= Dump

[DisCamper]

I’m sorry I made a mistake the houses in the pic are the houses from the city of Lake Buena Vista not Reedy Creek.

[Tri-circle-D]

Interesting information about The Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The blue sign got me to wondering. I wonder whose phone numbers are listed on the sign.

I did a reverse phone search on the numbers. The first one comes back as unlisted.

The second number shows the following:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/RCID.jpg

So, this RCID is who I call if someone is damaging the wetlands? Interesting, as it appears that this is the same entity that is supervising the work going on there now.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

Deb-

Thank you for the link to the RCID website. Fascinating information there!

Anyway, I found a map in the 2008 Comprehensive Plan that shows the area where I took the photo of the blue sign. If I am interpreting this right, it looks like it is just the wooded area adjacent to the 1800 and 1900 loops which is a designated wetland, and not the loops themselves.

I put an orange circle around the area of the Fort, and a little red arrow pointing toward the wetlands in this particular area:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/WDWWetlands-1.jpg

This would seem to put a lid on any rumors of expansion of campsites into this area. I also see that the areas to the west of the cabin loops, and west of the 700 and 800 loops are designated wetlands- which also would restrict expansion there.

This comprehensive plan is a pretty amazing document, and confirms that the RCID is subject to state and federal regulations.

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

To further illustrate things, here is an aerial photo of the Fort. I have marked the approximate area of the designated wetlands (according the the RCID map) with orange:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Tri-Circle-D/FortWetlands-1.jpg

TCD

[ftwildernessguy]

Well, so much for developing the fort into that area between FW and WL.

[Tri-circle-D]

Well, so much for developing the fort into that area between FW and WL.

I would think that the WDW could ask to un-designate some areas as wetlands, and substitute other areas to be designated as wetlands, should the need ever arise.

That is probably easier said than done, but with as much undeveloped land as they still have, I think it could be done.

TCD

[Shan-man]

Approximate area?! Where's your pride, man! (just joking TCD!) Here is an overlay of the RCID Wetlands map on a Google Earth composite.

http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w359/SLSettles/RCIDOverlay.jpg

Note: the dark green areas are a higher-level on conservancy than the bright green. Also, the wetlands PDF this map comes from does talk about mitigation should alterations to the bright green wetlands be "unavoidable". I think that adding super-premium waterfront sites between RC and WL is unavoidable, don't you?

[tim5055]

Tim... I'm not sure where you are getting your info from, but this page on the RCID website does not tout it as a "city", but rather a "district" that contains the cities of Lake Buena Vista & Bay Lake. Under their list of administrators, there is no mention of a mayor. My curiosity has been pequed now, because I've always wondered just what the RCID was.

Here's the web link to RCID:

http://www.rcid.org/AboutUS_main.cfm

Edit to add: In digging a little deeper on the history of RCID, it looks like it was formed by the Florida State Legislature in 1967 as a separate entity to govern the development of WDW. Now the next question would be... Do the people who sit on the administrative board also appear on the Disney payroll?? Hmmmm....If it appeared that I said that the RCID was a city I was unclear. The name "Reedy Creek was shared by two entities:

Reedy Creek Improvement District and the City of Reedy Creek.

Now, I went back and did a little more research... The city of Reedy Creek changed is name to the City of Lake Buena Vista. The second city is the City of Bay Lake. They do in fact have city councils and mayors who are residents of their respective cities. As all properties within the boundaries of the cities are owned by Disney and/or wholly owned subsidiaries, Disney gets to pick who lives in the cities - and there by gets to pick who can vote in the city elections.

More information can be found at these sites:

Wikipedia City of Lake Buena Vista (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Buena_Vista)

Wikipedia City of Bay Lake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Lake,_Florida)

US Census Lake Buena Vista, Florida (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_event=Search&geo_id=&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=lake+buena+vista&_cityTown=lake+buena+vista&_state=04000US12&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&show_2003_tab=&redirect=Y)

US Census Bay Lake Florida (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_event=Search&geo_id=&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=bay+lake&_cityTown=bay+lake&_state=04000US12&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&show_2003_tab=&redirect=Y)

So, as of 2000 the city of Bay Lake had 23 residents and the City of Lake Buena Vista had 16

And to your question, "Do the people who sit on the administrative board also appear on the Disney payroll?? Hmmmm...." The folks who sit on the RCID board are appointed by the landowners in the district. As Disney is the only private landowner in the district (you don't count state rods), they appoint the boards. These are the reasons why when Disney built Celebration they had to "de-annex" the Celebration land out of the RCID. Had they not then there would be other private landowners who could have a say in the board of RCID.

The 2 cities have elected councils and mayors, but as I said the only thing they do is contract all city services from RCID.

If you look around on the census data you will find that each city consists of 10 mobile homes each.

[LarryJ]

Reedy Creek is both a city and the name of the Improvement district. There are actually two cities on Disney Property, the other being Lake Buena Vista. As any other city in FL., they have a commission and mayor. The only official function of these bodies is to vote one a year the "contract" all services form the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The "residents" in the two cities are all Disney employees who rent the homes from Disney.

As tot eh earlier point, RCID still handles all permitting for Disney property. They follow all state laws, but have their own building/zoning laws which differ from the two counties the property sits in.

That's what I thought when I made my post and they assume the responsibility both engineering wise and liability wise to defend their decisions if legal proceedings occur. I thought this was something Walt had to address before he started WDW since normal zoning laws and the approval process would have prevented him developing WDW.

Larry

[jdg345]

The TCD crew made a visit to WDW over the past weekend. Didn't stay at the Fort, but I did make a surprise inspection visit on Saturday morning, September 6. These photos were all taken between 7:30 and 8:30 am:
TCD

Excellent Pictures! Thank you for sharing!

But I'm confused ... how exactly are these 'improvements' ? No room for tents, screened areas, or BBQ's ... more concrete, less 'outdoorsy', and less privacy. :confused3

[des1954]

TCD, I can't wait to converse with you someday! Thanks for all the "digging" you did that I am too impatient to do myself!! I glance and browse for information - but you mine!

Tim- I didn't mean to pick a fight with you (and still don't), but any person (even you or I) can go into a wikepedia site & change information. It is not a reliable source. Now, the US Census reports I do trust!

As far as re-zoning wetlands are concerned... there was a HUGE parcel of land to the east of the development we used to live in, in Bradenton. I don't recall the exact size of the parcel, but 1800 acres would be close. Not only was it a designated wetland, but it also sat on an environmentally protected section of the Manatee River (mangroves and all). The owner of this land (Rutledge Corporation) tried to have it zoned to sell as one to five acre housing tracts. A density regulation was approved by the voters of Manatee County in 1997 limiting housing density to one home per acre on all land east of I-75 in the county. When Rutledge applied for re-zoning, SW Fla Water Management stepped in an blocked the re-zoning as did other agencies who protected the ecosystem of the Manatee River. So, Rutledge did what any red-blooded American would do. They sold the entire parcel to US Homes. Magically... the entire property was re-zoned and a development the size of a small city now sits there, complete with a 300 slip marina that extremely violates the ecosystem of the river. The density? 5 single-family units per acre and many, many condos & villas. If you travel I-75 south to Sarasota, you can look to the left(east)of exit 269 and see this for yourself. The residents of the county were outraged that the re-zoning was allowed to violate not only wetland preservation, but violate the density regulations that the voters mandated. So my point? Anything is possible if the right company greases the right hands. I have many circumstances such as this I can site you - just from Manatee & Sarasota counties alone....but you get the point.

[des1954]

I would think that the WDW could ask to un-designate some areas as wetlands, and substitute other areas to be designated as wetlands, should the need ever arise.

That is probably easier said than done, but with as much undeveloped land as they still have, I think it could be done.

TCD

Right you are, as usual.

The Disney Wilderness Preserve south of Kissemmee would probably cover all the building on wetlands at WDW. The only part I don't get about filling in 1800 & 1900 is, why didn't they engineer a proper drainage system for stormwater run-off? The obvious answer is cost, but just plopping down a bunch of fill dirt without proper drainage is a little short-sighted in my opinion.

[BradyBz12]

Fantastic job getting all this great insider info and photos! We're heading back to FW in Dec. and I've been trying to find as much info as I can on all the planned renovations. This has been the most informative by far!!

Looking forward to the new dog park (traveling with our 2 border collies as always). Anyone got any news to share there? I've seen pics but not many reports of anyone that's actually used it.

Now if only they'd start work on the pool..... <sigh>

[2goofycampers]

We used the dog park in Jan 08, the pups had lots of fun. On the other hand there have been reports of people bringing in unsocialized dogs and causing a ruckus and sometimes even great harm to other dogs. Be careful to make sure any pups in there aren't mean before letting your pups in.

[BradyBz12]

We used the dog park in Jan 08, the pups had lots of fun. On the other hand there have been reports of people bringing in unsocialized dogs and causing a ruckus and sometimes even great harm to other dogs. Be careful to make sure any pups in there aren't mean before letting your pups in.

Thanks for the info! I expect it will be like dog parks everywhere, with a small number of clueless people that really just don't "get it," don't really understand dog behavior, or simply don't pay attention to what their dogs are up to. Not much we can do about that. <sigh>

Both my dogs are rescued border collies (not the easiest breed in the world to begin with), and one (Brady-6) came with a whole host of issues we've been dealing with for a long time now. He's come miles from where he started, but one thing we're still working on is that he can be a total idiot meeting new dogs. It's all bluster with nothing truly aggressive behind it (he was not at all socialized when we first got him), but it's not fair to subject someone else's dog to his obnoxious behavior.

Our plan is to stake out the park when not in use, and if anyone else shows up, we'll just politely ask them to wait a second while we clear out and let them have the place to themselves.

Oh yeah, and have a pocket full of steak to make sure *I'm* the focus of his attention! He's a smart boy, and steak pretty much trumps everything. ;)

[lucy_love]

This post has gone way over my head :rotfl2: :confused3 :rotfl2: :confused3

but...

this makes me really miss the fort :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

[jdg345]

We used the dog park in Jan 08, the pups had lots of fun. On the other hand there have been reports of people bringing in unsocialized dogs and causing a ruckus and sometimes even great harm to other dogs. Be careful to make sure any pups in there aren't mean before letting your pups in.

Where is the dog park located?

[jdg345]

btw, does anyone know if the 1800 loop has since re-opened? Did it get the same 'extended slab' treatment of the other loops?

[JanetR]

Thanks for the wonderful pics. Will you get pics from the 700 loop? I heard that it will be a preminum pet loop. Is that so? Thanks again...Janet

[dizneydiva2005]

If the golf cart number was 411- that was ours! :lmao: We parked it by ourselves!! The place was empty!! We were told it was about 30% full for the week. I loved it!!!!!!

We did the hoop on Wednesday and the place wasn't even full. As we were being seated near the front, the CM said, you got a Magical moment- you were moved from the very back to the 2nd table. :thumbsup2

I even had a magical moment again at the bike barn- I went to return the golf cart and was handed the key back and said, enjoy it for free with a good old fashion wink!
I was so thrilled! :yay:

[Tri-circle-D]

Approximate area?! Where's your pride, man! (just joking TCD!) Here is an overlay of the RCID Wetlands map on a Google Earth composite.

http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w359/SLSettles/RCIDOverlay.jpg

Note: the dark green areas are a higher-level on conservancy than the bright green. Also, the wetlands PDF this map comes from does talk about mitigation should alterations to the bright green wetlands be "unavoidable". I think that adding super-premium waterfront sites between RC and WL is unavoidable, don't you?


Very nice work! :worship: :worship: :worship:

TCD

[Tri-circle-D]

Excellent Pictures! Thank you for sharing!

But I'm confused ... how exactly are these 'improvements' ? No room for tents, screened areas, or BBQ's ... more concrete, less 'outdoorsy', and less privacy. :confused3

You are right about questioning whether or not these are really "improvements!" But, there will still be sites with room for tents and screen rooms, and these new premium sites are supposed to have upgraded grills. There is also supposed to be new landscaping. When this is all said and done, I think it really will be an improvement. The Disney folks aren't dropping the $$$$ to do this work to end up with an inferior product.

Fantastic job getting all this great insider info and photos! We're heading back to FW in Dec. and I've been trying to find as much info as I can on all the planned renovations. This has been the most informative by far!!

Looking forward to the new dog park (traveling with our 2 border collies as always). Anyone got any news to share there? I've seen pics but not many reports of anyone that's actually used it.

Now if only they'd start work on the pool..... <sigh>

The TCD dog has visited the dog park, and gave it two paws up! There is a little report on it along with some photos in this trip report (post 89): TCD's Spring Break 2008 Trip Report (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1783881&page=6)

Where is the dog park located?

In the area south of the 300 loop, adjacent to Big Pine Drive. There is a playground here.

btw, does anyone know if the 1800 loop has since re-opened? Did it get the same 'extended slab' treatment of the other loops?

None of the sites in the 1800 loop are getting the "extended slab" treatment. I can't tell you whether or not it has re-opened. My best guess would be that if it has not already reopened, it will soon.

Thanks for the wonderful pics. Will you get pics from the 700 loop? I heard that it will be a preminum pet loop. Is that so? Thanks again...Janet

No work was going on in the 700 loop on the day of my visit. I believe that it is going to get the same treatment as the 500 loop- so I can see it becoming a premium pet loop, but I don't know for sure. I am not sure that anyone does!:confused:

If the golf cart number was 411- that was ours! :lmao: We parked it by ourselves!! The place was empty!! We were told it was about 30% full for the week. I loved it!!!!!!

We did the hoop on Wednesday and the place wasn't even full. As we were being seated near the front, the CM said, you got a Magical moment- you were moved from the very back to the 2nd table. :thumbsup2

I even had a magical moment again at the bike barn- I went to return the golf cart and was handed the key back and said, enjoy it for free with a good old fashion wink!
I was so thrilled! :yay:

Sorry, didn't get the golf cart number -d'oh-I just never pay attention to details ;)- free use of a golf cart? That is a magical moment!!!!

TCD

[BradyBz12]

..The TCD dog has visited the dog park, and gave it two paws up!...[/URL]...
TCD

Thanks for the report and DK9 has a winning smile to be sure!

Glad to see a happy pack of big and small dogs getting along so well. Now THAT is what a dog park is supposed to be all about. :)

Do you happen to remember if there were particular times of day the part was more/less busy?

[Tri-circle-D]

Do you happen to remember if there were particular times of day the part was more/less busy?

The dog park is busiest early in the morning and late in the afternoon. Folks take the dogs there for a little exercise before and after hitting the parks. During the day, say between 10 and 4, it is not very busy at all. There is not much shade there, so most of it is in direct sunlight, and it can be hot! There is a small area with some trees and a few picnic tables, but the signs say not to bring food in.

TCD

[BradyBz12]

The dog park is busiest early in the morning and late in the afternoon... between 10 and 4, it is not very busy at all...
TCD

Great to know - thanks a bunch! That will probably work really well for us, as we usually hang out in the a.m. and don't head to the parks until around noon-ish.

...it can be hot! There is a small area with some trees and a few picnic tables
TCD

Hopefully the heat won't be too big an issue in Dec., but it has been from time to time. We definitely have "snow dogs" and we do have to watch them closely in the heat. Being border collies, they would literally run until they drop!

...the signs say not to bring food in.
TCD

Ah right, saw that somewhere. Understandable since the odds of a scuffle definitely go up if there's food around. ;)

Thanks again for the info!

[jdg345]

You are right about questioning whether or not these are really "improvements!" But, there will still be sites with room for tents and screen rooms, and these new premium sites are supposed to have upgraded grills. There is also supposed to be new landscaping. When this is all said and done, I think it really will be an improvement. The Disney folks aren't dropping the $$$$ to do this work to end up with an inferior product.



The TCD dog has visited the dog park, and gave it two paws up! There is a little report on it along with some photos in this trip report (post 89): TCD's Spring Break 2008 Trip Report (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1783881&page=6)



In the area south of the 300 loop, adjacent to Big Pine Drive. There is a playground here.



None of the sites in the 1800 loop are getting the "extended slab" treatment. I can't tell you whether or not it has re-opened. My best guess would be that if it has not already reopened, it will soon.



No work was going on in the 700 loop on the day of my visit. I believe that it is going to get the same treatment as the 500 loop- so I can see it becoming a premium pet loop, but I don't know for sure. I am not sure that anyone does!:confused:



Sorry, didn't get the golf cart number -d'oh-I just never pay attention to details ;)- free use of a golf cart? That is a magical moment!!!!

TCD


Excellent! Thank you so much!! :thumbsup2 :goodvibes

[tim5055]

OK, work took me to Orlando today and I was able to steal away for about an hour to "tour" FW.

As others have said, the 500 loop is now complete. Sites are wider and longer and in some areas at the bends in the loop they have widened the loop road.

The area from the utilities on each site is being left as they always were with the shell base, so on one side of the rear area you could hang a tent off the side and at least get two tent pegs in the ground. I did see one site that the folks had set up a tent off the rear of the concrete under the trees.

The new grills are in and they look nice. They have rotating covers over the top.

While I was walking around, a CM from engeneering came around and asked what I was doing (while I was taking photos of the new cable connection on a utility post). When I explained my web page he became talkative and the following is what he related (OK, I know the otters are a better source, but .....)


All sites on a convereted loop will be premium
The 800 loop is currently being converted
The 600 loop will be next after 800
The pool remodel starts in January, hopefully done in February.
The pool will be 4' deep from end to end
There will be a slide wraping around a water tower for the pool
They are trying to find room to add another loop, but are finding it difficult to "fit" it in


Now, after he left me to taking my photos I wandered over to the pet run. Disney did a beautiful job putting this together. It looks like about an acre in size with benches, a couple of pic-nic tables and a watering station.

Next I wandered over to the kennel to check out rumors. When I walked in and rang the buzzer the person who came to the counter was friendlyu and helpful. My exact quest to her was; "I hear rumors that when the new kennel is built over by Port Orleans that the FW kennel will be closed. Any truth to that?" Her response was that yes, the contract between Disney and Best Friends calls for the new kennel to be built and the old one to be closed.

I did take a lot of photos, but I will be on the road until October 8 so I won't be able to post them until then.

[bigdisneydaddy]

Thanks Tim, thats exciting news about the new loop.

[clkelley]

Thanks for the info!! Did you get a chance to ask him how the progress on adding cable to 1600 - 1900 and 1500, 2000 was going??

[Us3]

500 has re-opened and is pretty much full right now.

100 and 200 were closed when we arrived on Thursday, but they have now re-opened. They re-paved the roads.

a triathlon is going on right now, so on Sunday the boats will not be running at the marina because of swimmers (what about the brain eating amoeba?? ha ha) from 9:30-4pm.

Any of you that are here...I left my cell phone at home (used it as my alarm clock to get up at 4am...and its still on the bed at home, ha)...so pm us if you want to get together! We'll be here until Monday.

[Millermouseketeers]

Does anyone know when 1400 will be renovated? I am hoping after our December trip as I really do not need nor want to pay for a premium site. We like to be close to Meadows so we do not have to worry about the kids going to far on their own.

[lucy_love]

What about the new picnic tables? Are they nicer or just normal tables? I thought they were going to add more landscaping to the premium sites for "privacy" any signs of this?

What about a hot tub, just a pool or a hot tub too?

If they plan on renovating the pool in only a month I can't imagine that it will be a huge difference, that's not a lot of time to re-do a pool :confused3

I can't wait to go and see all the newness, but because of the economy, I don't know when our next trip will be :(

[stacktester]

What about the new picnic tables? Are they nicer or just normal tables? I thought they were going to add more landscaping to the premium sites for "privacy" any signs of this?

What about a hot tub, just a pool or a hot tub too?

If they plan on renovating the pool in only a month I can't imagine that it will be a huge difference, that's not a lot of time to re-do a pool :confused3

I can't wait to go and see all the newness, but because of the economy, I don't know when our next trip will be :(

I think you'd be surprised at how fast Disney can do something. They have unlimited resources via contractors and their own people. I figure a couple days to tear the old pool out and the rest will be spent building the new one.

[loveDmouse]

While I was walking around, a CM from engeneering came around and asked what I was doing (while I was taking photos of the new cable connection on a utility post). When I explained my web page he became talkative and the following is what he related (OK, I know the otters are a better source, but .....)


All sites on a convereted loop will be premium
The 800 loop is currently being converted
The 600 loop will be next after 800
The pool remodel starts in January, hopefully done in February.
The pool will be 4' deep from end to end
There will be a slide wraping around a water tower for the pool
They are trying to find room to add another loop, but are finding it difficult to "fit" it in





Great. I am glad they have started 800. That is where we are suppose to be in December! Looking forward to trying out one of the new premium sites. :thumbsup2

Thanks for the update.

[tim5055]

Thanks for the info!! Did you get a chance to ask him how the progress on adding cable to 1600 - 1900 and 1500, 2000 was going??
I went back by this morning...

1500 & 2000 loop show no signs of having cable added
1600 no signs of having cable added
1700 pipe in the ground and coax in the pipe
1800 pipe in the ground, no coax visable
1900 no signs of having cable added

At the entrance to the 1700 loop there is a CATV junction box with multiple large coax cables (described in previous posts) sticking out of the ground. On them were tags stating "out to 1600 loop, out to 1700 loop" etc...

Now, I wandered by the bike barn and asked if the rumor was true that the golf carts are bieng moved up front. All three working just grinned and did not answer. I said I was trying to plan my trip early next year and at that point they asked when I was visiting. I replied Jan or Feb to which they replied, yes - the cart rental would be up front by then.

[rapriebe]

I went back by this morning...

1500 & 2000 loop show no signs of having cable added
1600 no signs of having cable added
1700 pipe in the ground and coax in the pipe
1800 pipe in the ground, no coax visable
1900 no signs of having cable added

At the entrance to the 1700 loop there is a CATV junction box with multiple large coax cables (described in previous posts) sticking out of the ground. On them were tags stating "out to 1600 loop, out to 1700 loop" etc...


Thanks for the update Tim. We will be having an extended stay this winter in the 1700 loop and I was hoping everything would be complete when we get there on October 20. Didn't want to have to change sites because of work being done on the loop.

[tim5055]

Thanks for the update Tim. We will be having an extended stay this winter in the 1700 loop and I was hoping everything would be complete when we get there on October 20. Didn't want to have to change sites because of work being done on the loop.While I won't guarantee you will have cable, I can't see any reason why they would need to move you. All of the underground work is done (cable pipes and sprinkler drip irrigation).