5th Theme Park ?

[TheIncredibles]

What's the latest on Disney planning and possibly implementing a 5th Theme Park? I've heard through the years everything from "Night Kingdom" to a park dedicated to villains and coasters, but nothing absolute.

Lots of rumors, sometimes a random article; anyone have greater insight to share?

[WEDWDW]

What's the latest on Disney planning and possibly implementing a 5th Theme Park? I've heard through the years everything from "Night Kingdom" to a park dedicated to villains and coasters, but nothing absolute.

Lots of rumors, sometimes a random article; anyone have greater insight to share?
I haven't heard any new rumors other than the ones you mentioned.:) My question has always been:"What am I going to do with a Fifth Gate?"I can't see and do everything in the four existing parks in a week as it is!:)

[figureskater]

The only rumor i've heard about a 5th park is that they've bought the land for it. :confused3

[Kaler131]

My question has always been:"What am I going to do with a Fifth Gate?"I can't see and do everything in the four existing parks in a week as it is!:)

EXACTLY! They (The Disney powers that be) want you to HAVE to either stay LONGER than a week, or come back for multiple visits.:thumbsup2

[rsimon]

The only rumor i've heard about a 5th park is that they've bought the land for it. :confused3

Why would they need to buy land, :confused3 they have all the land there with WDW that is unused as it is. They wouldn't need land to build 1 or more new parks.

[ajk912]

Our bus driver told us there were plans to make TWO new theme parks within the next 4 years! Also, I didn't know this but he also said that Disney is only using about 1/4 of the land they own right now! Wow!

[WEDWDW]

Why would they need to buy land, :confused3 they have all the land there with WDW that is unused as it is. They wouldn't need land to build 1 or more new parks.
I agree.Isn't the most widely rumored new "park"(Jungle Trek) supposed to be built at Animal Kingdom?Also,would Jungle Trek even be considered a Fifth Gate or just a HUGE "attraction".Anyway at $300.00 per ticket,I don't think I would be doing much "Trekking".LOL:)

[TheGoofster]

Our bus driver told us there were plans to make TWO new theme parks within the next 4 years! Also, I didn't know this but he also said that Disney is only using about 1/4 of the land they own right now! Wow!

:scared1: BUS DRIVERS!!!!

I think they must pick bus drivers for their creative thinking abilities. I don't believe there's a group of people that are less reliable with actual Disney information than the mischievous bus drivers. :rotfl:
On the other hand, he's probably right about the 1/4 thing though.

[bonybroad]

Maybe Pixar Park? They could certainly do a lot of attractions?
Incredible, Toy Syory, Robinsons, Ratatouille, Cars, Monsters Inc....
How about Disney Channel park?
Hannah, Phineas/Ferb, HSM, Wizards, Kim Possible, Jetix, etc...
Might be a huge draw to the tweens/teens.

[southernbelle5672]

Hey guys. There is an article on JimHillMedia.com about a new theme park Disney World is doing called "Jungle Trek" which was formerly going to be "Night Kingdom".

I would post the url but the message board won't let you do that until you've had 10 posts and I've already had 3 :(

But go to jimhillmedia.com and scroll down to about to the 5th article.

I guess this park is going to compete with Discovery Cove by Sea World and be something like $300 to go to!

[::DisneyLove::]

It would be pretty cool to see another theme park, but if they were to add another one, i'd hope that it wouldn't just be all rollercoasters.

[eddieras]

they own approximately 47 acres and i've heard that only a small percentage is developed- anyone care to do the math as to what's developed?!!

i did hear that its a large percentage that remains undeveloped

[ADP]

Bob Iger said about 4 or 5 years ago when he took the CEO post that there would be no new theme parks on the Florida property in the forseeable future.

[skifast22]

Bob Iger said about 4 or 5 years ago when he took the CEO post that there would be no new theme parks on the Florida property in the forseeable future.

I ssem to remember that too. Wasn't his emphasis going to be on improving all the existing parks? Now, when the time does come for a new park, I hope they add a park focused on thrill rides to compete with Islands of Adventure.

[YouJustBideYourTime!]

they own approximately 47 acres and i've heard that only a small percentage is developed- anyone care to do the math as to what's developed?!!

i did hear that its a large percentage that remains undeveloped

Officially, they are using 1/3, 1/3 is strictly for conservational purposes, and 1/3 is yet to be used so the developed property wil eventually double- and that's if of course they never obtain more land!

I don't believe the villain park rumour because it is so old and so varied-this Night Kingdom thing seems feasable but the details are sketchy. However I have heard it from reliable and unreliable sources both so it's more likely than the Villain Island stuff which has only come through unreliable sources...

The only valid-seeming info I've gotten is the NK should be one of those luxury parks like Discovery Cove- with a high entrance fee and a very limited number of guests and a low ratio of guests to CMs.

[sbell111]

I'm not sure which is less reliable, bus drivers or Jim Hill.

That being said, I doubt any new Florida parks are going to happen in the near future. Hong Kong expansion and potential Shanghai development.

[ajleone]

Hey guys. There is an article on JimHillMedia.com about a new theme park Disney World is doing called "Jungle Trek" which was formerly going to be "Night Kingdom".

I would post the url but the message board won't let you do that until you've had 10 posts and I've already had 3 :(

But go to jimhillmedia.com and scroll down to about to the 5th article.

I guess this park is going to compete with Discovery Cove by Sea World and be something like $300 to go to!

We all know about Jim Hill and also know to take what he says with a HUGE grain of salt.

[goofygal71]

Sounds like hogwash to me...after reading Jim Hill's article about it, I cannot see Disney doing a park that costs $300 to get in. Wouldn't that be alienating their target audience. And the details are so vague, I don't think we are getting a new park anytime soon. But I would hope that the Imagineers would come up with something more fun than Jungle Trek. popcorn::

[Ryan08242]

they own approximately 47 acres and i've heard that only a small percentage is developed- anyone care to do the math as to what's developed?!!

i did hear that its a large percentage that remains undeveloped

Its more like 30,000 acres or 47 square miles :)

[RachaelA]

http://micechat.com/forums/walt-disney-world-resort/102183-wdws-5th-gate-revealed-detail.html

Here is a UK resident that took a survey about "Jungle Trek"

[Brer Shay]

I was watching Disney "Fact or Fiction," one of Comcast's on demand options this weekend. It was about the tunnels/first floor of Magic Kingdom. At the end of the show, the host was talking about the great work and abilities of the Imagineers. He didn't mention anything specific, but did say that he was looking forward to seeing what they were coming up with for Disney's fifth Orlando park.

[qman]

Given other current posts regarding Disney cutting back costs to shore up profits it seems highly unlikely they would drop billions of dollars on a new park until the economy picks up and they need to increase capacity.

[Tinkergirl]

I ssem to remember that too. Wasn't his emphasis going to be on improving all the existing parks? Now, when the time does come for a new park, I hope they add a park focused on thrill rides to compete with Islands of Adventure.

1. I do think that they need to put a little more work into AK before opening one, but when they do it:

2. I also hopes that there are thrill ride elements to it. We haven't really seen Disney do this before (at such a huge level) and I'd bet it would be amazing!

[eddieras]

Its more like 30,000 acres or 47 square miles :)

YIKES! :upsidedow

thanks for catching that -- too funny!!

[RllngRckBrw]

Maybe Pixar Park? They could certainly do a lot of attractions?
Incredible, Toy Syory, Robinsons, Ratatouille, Cars, Monsters Inc....


I do believe that this will be an expansion of DHS as it is beginning with TSM and the roumered Monsters Inc ride where you ride the doors.

Everything right now is just rumors and not definite. I expect that if they were to have 2 parks in 4 years they would have at least have formal plans orbroken ground for it. I know this is the company that appears to decorate fro Christmas overnight, but it may take a bit of time to build an entire park.

On a side note: it would be cool to see a vilans park with thrill rides and more "extreme" experiences.

[DISshopkeeper]

On a side note: it would be cool to see a vilans park with thrill rides and more "extreme" experiences.

That would totally float my boat as well! :cool1:

[CanadianGuy]

Since this is all speculation and rumor.. this thread will be found on the RUMORS & NEWS board..

Effective in about 30 seconds. :)

Thanks,

Knox

[Lintasare]

The 5th park rumor has been around for a very long time. When I was a CM back in 2002 there was a rumor about a Villians park with coasters and such.

Last year on the KTTK tour someone asked our tour guide if Disney was planning on building a 5th theme park and he said that with unemployment so low in the Orlando area and other factors it wasn't feasible to build another park because it would be difficult to staff it.

And remember Disney is going to be very busy with the overhaul of California Adventures.

[Padrepride]

I am pushing for a Disney's America idea for a 5th gate but I'm expecting a 5th gate after 2020.

[doconeill]

Sounds like hogwash to me...after reading Jim Hill's article about it, I cannot see Disney doing a park that costs $300 to get in. Wouldn't that be alienating their target audience. And the details are so vague, I don't think we are getting a new park anytime soon. But I would hope that the Imagineers would come up with something more fun than Jungle Trek. popcorn::

It is only alienating the target audience if the target audience of a 5th gate is the same audience served by the other 4 gates.

According to reports Disney did seem to covet the Discovery Cove idea. And it seems to make business sense. You have a gate that requires a premium to get in, has limited hours and limited capacity. Those two factors imply a lower operating expense - less cast members are required to deal with a smaller crowd. The CM/guest ratio may be higher, but you need less in concessions, merchandise, maintenance, etc.

[Twilightlover]

Discovery Cove is $189 and that includes lunch. So i think the $300 price tag is a bit far out there.

[Dznefreek]

but did say that he was looking forward to seeing what they were coming up with for Disney's fifth Orlando park.
I think they making reference to whatever came next; whenever, would be number 5, it follows 4 . . . . . .

On one of the TLC programs it was once stated they had enough land set aside for 3 more parks and I believe 8 more hotels. That does not mean they will be built . . . . .

[KK'sMommy]

I happen to know someone ;) who filled out a survey about a possible theme park for Disney. I don't know for sure, but I know that it is a jungle out there and boy it sure is a trek from Wilderness Lodge to Fort Wilderness. :)

[WEDWDW]

I happen to know someone ;) who filled out a survey about a possible theme park for Disney. I don't know for sure, but I know that it is a jungle out there and boy it sure is a trek from Wilderness Lodge to Fort Wilderness. :)
That is interesting.Everything I have heard pointed to Jungle Trek being built at Animal Kingdom.I think I would like it better there(between FW and WL) since it is so sad for River Country to just be sitting there rotting away-they might as well demo RC and put something new there.:)

[Horace Horsecollar]

Discovery Cove is $189 and that includes lunch. So i think the $300 price tag is a bit far out there.
An adult Discovery Cove Dolphin Package is $289 ($269 during the shoulder season). In addition to a continental breakfast and a very good cafeteria lunch, the package includes admission to either SeaWorld Orlando or Busch Gardens Tampa Bay for 14 consecutive days, which can begin before or after the Discovery Cove day.

If a $300 Disney park included admission to another Disney theme park for 14 consecutive days, it would more closely match the Discovery Cove pricing model -- and the price might be easier to take.

Of course, everything about Disney's $300-per-person theme park is just rumors and speculation at this time.

[addicted2dizney]

I remember when I was a teenager sometime in the 80's I read a newspaper article where Disney was planning an American History based theme park in the Williamsburg Va area. Does anyone know what ever came of that or has there been any talk of something like that in Orlando?:confused3

[Peter Pirate 2]

sick, sick, sick...disney will never add another theme park as long as suckers are still crowding the swill they still offer.
pirate:

[Horace Horsecollar]

I remember when I was a teenager sometime in the 80's I read a newspaper article where Disney was planning an American History based theme park in the Williamsburg Va area. Does anyone know what ever came of that or has there been any talk of something like that in Orlando?:confused3
It wasn't proposed for the Williamsburg area. Disney's America was proposed for a 3,000-acre site that came within 4 miles of the Manassas National Battlefield. (It was not going to be built on the Manassas Battlefield, despite erroneous and misleading reports at the time.)

Anti-development forces and historic preservation forces on one side fought against pro-development forces and Disney on the other side. The plan became too controversial; Disney made some PR blunders; and Disney ultimately dropped the plan.

Some of the concepts from the $650 million historical theme park/resort eventually made it into Disney's California Adventure and Tokyo DisneySea.

The Disney's America project is dead. Also, there are no plans moving forward for a fifth major theme park at WDW.

[addicted2dizney]

It wasn't proposed for the Williamsburg area. Disney's America was proposed for a 3,000-acre site that came within 4 miles of the Manassas National Battlefield. (It was not going to be built on the Manassas Battlefield, despite erroneous and misleading reports at the time.)

Anti-development forces and historic preservation forces on one side fought against pro-development forces and Disney on the other side. The plan became too controversial; Disney made some PR blunders; and Disney ultimately dropped the plan.

Some of the concepts from the $650 million historical theme park/resort eventually made it into Disney's California Adventure and Tokyo DisneySea.

The Disney's America project is dead. Also, there are no plans moving forward for a fifth major theme park at WDW.

Yes, you are right. I stand corrected. I could not remember the exact town but now that I think of it, it was closer to the DC area and therefore closer to me. Thank you for the great info and background information!:goodvibes

[MJMcBride]

The Disney's America project is dead. Also, there are no plans moving forward for a fifth major theme park at WDW.

There will never be a 5th major theme park at WDW

[addicted2dizney]

There will never be a 5th major theme park at WDW

Why do you say that? Believe me, I am truly asking, I have never heard a word about a 5th park but I also didn't even know about AK until I was there in Jan 1998 and they were announcing the opening in April 1998! :rotfl:

[MJMcBride]

Why do you say that? Believe me, I am truly asking, I have never heard a word about a 5th park but I also didn't even know about AK until I was there in Jan 1998 and they were announcing the opening in April 1998! :rotfl:

simple. Its not cost effective. The one real lesson from DAK is that all that park did really was redistribute the guests they already had. Thus, a fifth park is not cost effective in any shape or form.

The only park that would make sense financially maybe is a high end boutique park like Discovery Island

I would really doubt we will ever see a major fifth gate as it makes zero business sense

[MJMcBride]

Why do you say that? Believe me, I am truly asking, I have never heard a word about a 5th park but I also didn't even know about AK until I was there in Jan 1998 and they were announcing the opening in April 1998! :rotfl:

simple. Its not cost effective. The one real lesson from DAK is that all that park did really was redistribute the guests they already had. Thus, a fifth park is not cost effective in any shape or form.

The only park that would make sense financially maybe is a high end boutique park like Sea World's Discovery Park

I would really doubt we will ever see a major fifth gate as it makes zero business sense

[keegro94]

they should build another one over here at disneyland lol. you guys already have 4 theme park and 2 waterparks. we dont have any water parks and we only have 2 theme parks

[Rudy6]

What about something like Tokyo's Disneysea?

[mitros]

There will never be a 5th major theme park at WDW

...............never say never.

[Charlesaway]

simple. Its not cost effective. The one real lesson from DAK is that all that park did really was redistribute the guests they already had. Thus, a fifth park is not cost effective in any shape or form.


I've often seen the 'fact' of guest redistribution versus actual growth in attendance thrown around, and I just want to take a few moments to point out that it is likely incorrect.

In 1988, the estimated combined attendance of both MK and EPCOT was 25.1 million.

In 1992, the three parks at WDW took in estimated attendance of:
Magic Kingdom: 12 million
EPCOT: 10 million
Disney-MGM Studios: 8 million

Although this represents a combined drop between MK and EPCOT of 3 million people, it represents a total increase in attendance of 5 million visitors over the previous 1988 attendance record.

By 2007, attendance was estimated to have reached:
Magic Kingdom: 17 million
Epcot: 10.9 million
DHS: 9.51 million
Animal Kingdom: 9.49 million

Given these industry estimates, attendance at MK between 1988 and 2008 could have grown anywhere between 5 and 40%, depending in separate EPCOT performance in the mid 1980s. EPCOT attendance has steadily grown at about 1% a year over the past 10 years.

Although there has been evidence in the past, and statements to the effect that Disney was not necessarily happy with initial performance or ticket draw at the gates, it is plainly obvious that the two most recent parks draw significant visitor totals, ranking as the 7th and 8th most popular amusement parks worldwide, respectively. And all the while, still allowing an overall increase in attendance at MK and EPCOT.

Total attendance at all gates in 2007 was in excess of 47 million, nearly DOUBLE attendance recorded in 1988, and 35% higher than 1992.

That being said, the economic considerations regarding an additional gate take into consideration countless additional details beyond simply total attendance. Infrastructure issues, permitting, design and imagineering, securing investment partners, ability to merchandise, etc are all significant factors in any expansion plans.

Cheers!

sources:
http://www.ibiblio.org/darlene/coaster/FAQ/FAQ.attendance
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:0s_EbSB9DscJ:marriottschool.byu.edu/cfe/resources/cases/GeaugaLake.pdf+1988+theme+park+attendance+estimate s&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
http://www.connectingindustry.com/downloads/pwteaerasupp.pdf

[MJMcBride]

but there is no evidence that a 5th gate would increase the number of visitors in any real way

[Charlesaway]

but there is no evidence that a 5th gate would increase the number of visitors in any real way

There is no guarantee a 5th gate would increase total attendance in any real way. However, there is plenty of evidence, as noted above, that would suggest a 5th gate would increase total attendance.

Again, I point out that DHS and AK are responsible for the majority of the increased attendance numbers over the past 20 years. Even if you were to argue that those attendance numbers are accounted for primarily by people already visiting the first two parks (likely true), it takes time and money to visit the other parks. People visiting multiple different gates need to spend more time either in Orlando or on site, will spend more money on food, and likely more money on goods.

Disney's Theme parks are profitable. As long as all gates at WDW continue to draw significant attendance and, therefore, profits, the possibility of a 5th gate remains open.

Regards,

[MJMcBride]

but unlike when there was only 2 parks, 4 parks gobbles up the average week vacation

[Condorman]

Ultimately, there will be a 5th gate. It may not happen until 2021 but it will happen. They have the land, they have the talent, they just don't have the numbers, which is an equation that will solve itself come the next generation. As populations grow both domestic and international, and visitor numbers to Orlando increase, corporate strategy dictates that a new facility must be added to accommodate the logical increase in park attendance. Before that happens, I believe we will see the current parks maxxed out (i.e. 1/3 of AK is still undeveloped), old aspects shut down and razed (i.e. Wonders of Life), unfinished areas completed (i.e. Pop! Legendary Years), etc.

I'd like to think some of the rumors about Fantasyland are true, and that for the 40th anniversary they will do even more incredible things. However, WDW is extraordinarily popular, even in the slow times. There is little motivation for them to spend more when guests are already satisfied with what they have. 2021 is the 50th anniversary of WDW. While I don't see them opening a new park to celebrate the opening of the first park, a new park will be built.

[MJMcBride]

Ultimately, there will be a 5th gate. It may not happen until 2021 but it will happen.

I doubt there will ever be any financial gain from a 5th park. Not while the vast majority of people tour WDW for one week periods

They have the land,


OK

they have the talent,

maybe

they just don't have the numbers,

and they never will, not when virtually all tourists go there for a week's period. 4 parks is more than enough for that time frame. Especially if they do add to DAK and DHS and throw in a upscale boutique park. The cost of a trip to WDW virtually limits people to 1 week trips. Heck they are reluctant to add lands to DAK at this point as they don't think its worth the expense

[Condorman]

and they never will, not when virtually all tourists go there for a week's period. 4 parks is more than enough for that time frame. Especially if they do add to DAK and DHS and throw in a upscale boutique park. The cost of a trip to WDW virtually limits people to 1 week trips. Heck they are reluctant to add lands to DAK at this point as they don't think its worth the expense

I agree on the point of saturation. Most visitors don't go to WDW long enough to enjoy what currently exists, let alone another park. The term cannibalism is overused on this subject but it is appropriate. At this point in time, 2008, it would backfire on Disney to expand any further. However, you can't say what the numbers will be like two decades from now. If somebody had asked Walt Disney in 1955 at the opening of DL about the possibility of parks in Paris, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Florida, he probably would have winced and said it's highly unlikely. Even though said ideas came to pass over the next 50 years, most came about within 20 years of each other, i.e. DHS, AK, DLP, TDS, HKDL, etc. Disney isn't run by visionaries anymore, just bean counters. If they see an opening, they will exploit it. That the opportunity presents itself is inevitable. It just won't be happening anytime soon.

[figureskater]

I don't want to be the buzz kill...but instead of building more parks and resorts...why don't they spruce up what we already have. From pictures i've seen of other disney parks around the world, WDW looks much less manicured.

[eddieras]

I don't want to be the buzz kill...but instead of building more parks and resorts...why don't they spruce up what we already have. From pictures i've seen of other disney parks around the world, WDW looks much less manicured.

wow! i'd love to see those parks then!

[figureskater]

wow! i'd love to see those parks then!

Check out images in Flickr, or watch rides on youtube!