Who would like a separate forum focused on II trades?

[StevieD]

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but I'm curious to know if there are others out there who would like to have a separate forum regarding information on trading outside of DVC. What I would envision is a forum where people could post their experiences trading out of DVC, quality of the resorts in the World Passport Collection, experiences trading outside of MS, etc. I realize TUG has a member section which can provide ratings of resorts. But I'd like to see something that is more oriented to DVC'ers. Although we just became members today, we have decided that we may not want to go to WDW every year - so it would be nice to have info on the trades available to us. Also, I've seen several posts from Dean which indicate that it is possible (and may be desirable) to trade directly with someone rather than use MS.

Anyway, this is a suggestion. If there appears to be a lot of DVC'ers who are in favor of this suggestion, perhaps one of the moderators could consider setting up a sub-forum dedicated to this topic. It sure would save time searching this forum for every specific resort that we are considering trading out for.

So what do you think?

[CaptainMidnight]

I'm always interested in this topic, but there are not many posts on the subject. There happen to be a couple now, which is a little unusual per my observations. Sounds like a good idea.

[Firefighter Mickey]

While it sounds like an interesting idea, but I just can't see that there would be sufficient traffic to warrant such a board, and one of the things the webmasters look at for new boards is potential traffic (because it takes some amount of effort to maintain a board regardless of traffic - and there's no point in maintaining low traffic boards).

Since the availability of II resorts is limited, I've personally found TUG more than useful in researching possible II trades (not done any yet, but researched a few possibles).

If I've offended anyone by sharing my opinion, please accept my profuse apologies.

[StevieD]

Offended anyone??? Heck no, Firefighter Mickey!! I honestly want to see what people think about the idea - if its not something of interest, then I'd be the first to say its not a good idea.

I only bring up the topic because in searching for info on II trades out of DVC, I found quite a few threads discussing people's experiences, but I found it difficult to search for these threads.

[DVCLady]

Good idea. Maybe it will help members out so they don't wind up in a not so "nice" place.:bounce:

[DVCLady]

Maybe this question would make a good poll.

[Werner Weiss]

On the surface this is a great idea. After all, using DVC to make II exchanges is a very different use of DVC points than staying at a DVC resort. And II exchange discussions tend to get lost in all the other DVC discussions.

But my fear is that such a forum would have such low traffic, that most people who participate in the DVC forum would seldom or never go to a DVC-II forum. So this could have the opposite effect of what's desired -- there might actually be less discussion and fewer replies related to II exchanges.

On top of that, the moderators would probably end up spending a lot of time moving topics into the correct forum, becuse the distinction beween the DVC forum and DVC-II forum is likely to be unclear to many people.

Where would Concierge Collection and Adventurer Collection discussions go? Holland America and Disney Cruise Line point discussions? Disney Collection discussions? Buena Vista Trading Company discussions?

Perhaps there's an opportunity for a forum devoted to "Trip Reports for Trips with DVC Points to Other than DVC Resorts." But unless somebody can come up with better and shorter name for such a forum, it's likely to be unclear and fail.

[Dean]

I would suggest no as most members are only casually interested and would read a post but not go to a new board. Plus I too doubt there would be enough traffic to justify it.

[margaritabnl]

I personally would be very interested in such a board. We had thought of buying into DVC as we are on an every other year schedule to WDW. The reason we haven't bought in is simply because the kids (8 and 11) are starting to talk about various cruises, Caribbean Islands, and other non-Disney vacations (gasp!).

After reading about the ins and outs of DVC on this board we learned we could trade in for non-Disney resorts but never came across enough specific detail and experience from others who have done this.

I went to TUG and didn't find the personal experiences of trading from members I was looking for and info. here is practically nonexistant.

Until I can find the information/experience on DVC trades I am looking for I don't expect we will buy into DVC . We likely will buy a timeshare elsewhere and be FORCED (OMG NO!) to stay off-site for future WDW vacations! :eek:

[Horace Horsecollar]

I think there are two issues that people have questions about: (1) the mechanics of DVC-II exchanges, and (2) actual DVC member experiences, including a review of the resort, how easy or hard it was to arrange the exchage, and how many points it took.

For item 1, a good FAQ, pulled together from the outstanding responses the Dean has provided to specific questions, should go a long way toward addressing the questions. (Dean, do you want to volunteer to pull it together?)

For item 2, a new forum might be useful -- except that I wonder how many DIS participants actually make such exchanges and would be willing to write up their experiences. Such a forum could die from lack of interest unless there's sufficient activity.

For resort reviews, TUG -- http://www.tug2.net -- is a great resource. It's $15 for the first year and $10/year after that. There are also free areas, including various forums, but for the reviews and ratings, you have to join. (It's worth it, even if you plan to make a single exchange.) Of course, TUG doesn't provide a DVC member perspective; there's no discussion of how many DVC points an exchange took or experience of arranging a trade through DVC MS.

Would there be enough activity to support a new forum? What would it be called, so that people post to the right forum?

[Beth]

Since we presently have a "Cruise Trip Report Board," I think that there would be enough traffic to warrant a "DVC Trip Report Board."

It could include both DVC Resort trips, and II/Conceirge/Adventure/World of Disney etc trips, as well.

I know I am always "quick to click" on the "Just back from..." posts, and I would visit such a board often to hear about others' trips, and live vicariously through them until my next trip "home."

It would be great for people to discuss "all" the activities they enjoyed on their trip - so others could learn of different restaurants, activities, etc., say in Hilton Head & Vero.

Reports on II exchanges could include the point requirements for the trips, also.

I think it's a good idea - I'd definitely "subscribe" to it!

[Granny]

I guess I'm different. I like the variety on this board with the common thread of DVC. I read about trading out to cruises, resorts, etc and about trip experiences. I read about newbies putting their toes in the water to test the DVC to see if it fits. I see the mechanical banking/borrowing/ressies questions that are always so illuminating.

I like the variety, and being able to come to one board to see such diverse information.

I know I can always use the search function (now that it's back) to find specific topics, or if I can't find it I just post the question and people patiently reply with an answer that's been provided many times before.

My opinion....keep the board as it is. Again, that's just my opinion and not knocking the concept.

BTW....one thing I am thankful for is that the exchanges/rentals are on a different board!

[GrammieMame]

I've always wished that there was a place to put trip reports for DVC members who stay at properties other than on-site. That would include Concierge Collection and week-long trades. I'd love to be able to hear about their impressions of the properties involved, as well as get some insight into other activities in the area they are visiting. I'm for it. As far as traffic is concerned, I have gone to other forums and noticed that the last postings might have been weeks back.

[DVC1996]

Personally, I feel we should not change anything. There is room on this board for any type of DVC exchange. I'm thinking that perhaps the real reason for some members wanting a second board is that they feel uncomfortable posting on a board that is largely dominated by DVC members who want to stay at a DVC resort. Honestly......I felt the same way when we first joined DVC. I felt that staying at a DVC resort was the best value. However, now that our children are grown we want to explore other destinations and luckily, DVC membership offers this flexibility. I would love hearing about other members outside experiences and recommendations. I've had a couple of outside exchanges and they were very positive - The Jefferson in Washington, D.C. and The Fairmont Vacation Villas at Riverside in British Columbia. I would recommend both to anyone considering an exchange at these places.

[Dean]

Since there is fairly little traffic, I'd hate for most members to miss out on info because it's on another board. The issue of some type of trip report/review for exchanges related to DVC might have some merrit much like the room reports. I think a fair amount of info has been circulated but DVC members exchange out relatively little. It will be difficult to amass much volume of info. The differences in DVC exchanges is relatively easy to understand. The hard part is figuring out what is an acceptable exchange then going and getting that exchange. If I get time tonight, I'll try to write a summary of my view of DVC exchanges.

[mic_KY_mouses]

I, too, love to read the posts about people's experience with trading out. I would rather see those kind of posts stay at this board though, because it's more convenient for me. I also don't think there would be enough traffic at a separete forum to make it worthwhile.

Since we just recently joined DVC we probably won't be looking at doing it for a few years, but I have thought and wondered about how often current members DO trade out.

Does anyone have any hard and fast numbers showing the actual numbers or percentage of II trades handled by member services each year? I wondered if, since DVC is now 10 years old, the outside trades are increasing? I realize that some trades are done in other ways, but I was just curious about this. Any ideas?

[mittelst]

Ah, StevieD, we meet again!

I, too, would like to see a "Trade-out Trip Report" forum. It would be a great benefit to me. Right now, looking for trade-out experiences/advice on the general board is like looking for a needle in a haystack!

Me,
Sitting on the DVC Fence in Rochester, NY

[Dean]

This is my interpretation of the DVC exchange options. The topics to be covered are:
DVC exchanges with Interval International (II)
Concierge Collection exchanges (CC)
Disney Cruise Line exchanges (DCL)
Disney Collection exchanges (DC)
Adventurer Collection
Other alternatives

These are my views as of 2002 and are to be interpreted as such. Overall, I don’t feel most exchange options offer DVC members the best value so keep that in mind when reading my views.

DVC exchanges with Interval International

This area is a unique situation to both DVC exchanges and to a certain extent, the entire timeshare world. DVC has a contract with II to offer exchanges to DVC members. DVC takes the entire II book and then attempts to select out the top resorts they feel worthy for DVC members to exchange into excluding Orlando. Since there are only about 30-40 non Orlando resorts in II that are truly comparable to DVC resorts, DVC must round out the options with other resorts that are as good as possible even if below DVC standards.

The process is that a DVC member selects the resorts they would like to exchange into and gives that list to DVC. DVC then looks on line to see if any of the choices are available, if not, an ongoing exchange request is instituted. One can look for a resort up to 2 years from the date you are searching. One can only search for a unit the size you are willing to give up or the smallest unit that the destination resort has, whichever is larger. Once a possible match is found, DVC will call and offer that to you and you can then say yes or no. At that time, DVC will tell you how many points the exchange will cost. The exchange fee is currently $75. In general, the truly high demand times will cost the same as OKW Dream or Magic Season for the same size unit but many requests will actually be Adventure season points for OKW or HH. One may be offered a larger unit than searching for when doing an ongoing search.

For those familiar with the traditional timeshare exchange system, there are some differences. No II book, no bonus weeks, no access to II directly including the website, no getaways and you can’t access resorts not on the restricted DVC-II list. The positives are that there is no annual fee, the exchange fee is $75, DVC has very good exchange power and search first up to 2 years out.

Once you make the exchange, DVC actually reserves a unit that matches the criteria noted above and gives that unit to II. The points and the unit are then gone. It is possible to do a deposit first exchange which is more like a traditional timeshare exchange. The deposited unit may be used for an exchange for up to 2 years past the date of the unit deposited. This can be a good way to extend the life of points that may otherwise expire but I think this is the only benefit I can think of at this time.

Direct Exchange Points Options

These include the DC, DCL, CC and Adventurer Collection. I’ll give some general information that I think applies to all of these options. These are IMO convenience exchange options with a fairly high points cost. The value for an individual member must be weighed by that member but in general, the points cost is relatively high to very high. The actual value for most of these options usually approaches around $5 per point but will vary depending on available discounts, specials, holidays and the like. These exchange options are not guaranteed and these programs could change or cease to exist at any time. They are good to allow a vacation option that one could not swing otherwise, allow one to use up points that might not be used and to allow variety at a prepaid price. Once you’ve made the exchange, the points may still be available in “reservation status” if the reservation is cancelled. Reservation points can be use to book other exchange options except II but are not available to book DVC reservations.

Concierge Collection exchanges

Is mostly a collection of high end Bed and Breakfasts, Top Hotels and historic Inn’s. While the points costs are high and the value is questionable, the quality and uniqueness of each option is difficult to dispute. They can certainly be a way to splurge on one’s self and family as well as a way to create a once in a lifetime weekend or similar getaway. If you watch the Travel Channel or read top travel magazines, you will see the names pop up frequently.

Disney Cruise Line exchanges

DCL, need I say more. The value here may be more than some of the other similar options. For low end cabins, the points option tends to be fairly expensive depending on available specials. The true value tends to increase for the larger cabins due to the lower discounting in the more expensive cabins. Overall, DVC is a fairly expensive cruise line so one must again evaluate for themselves the value for the specific circumstances at hand.

Disney Collection exchanges

The ability to exchange to other DVC hotels is a very interesting one, too bad the points costs are so high. Still, many really enjoy the ability for variety and to try hotels they wouldn’t or couldn’t do on cash. Still, if you compare to rack rates for the Disney hotels, some may find value here. The option of selecting the view for a specific number of points is a plus for those where the room type, view is truly important.

Adventurer Collection

A combination of high adventure options that include choices like a Safari, whitewater rafting, and the like. I’ll also include the Dude Ranch in this group even though DVC lists it in the CC. I haven’t researched the value of these options but would assume the same $5 per point value.

Other Alternatives

Would include renting one’s points and using the proceeds to buy the other vacation options. One could do a direct exchange with another timeshare owner giving access to other possible trades for potentially less points costs. A direct exchanges also allows both parties to bypass possible fees, may allow access to owner only benefits and allow one to improve the chances at or even guarantee certain preferences like an oceanfront unit. Finally, one could exchange through an independent exchange company like San Francisco Exchange, Trading Places, Platinum Interchange, Dial an Exchange or others. Since each tend to specialize in certain resorts/areas, this could improve the chances to get certain exchanges as well as providing potential access to resorts not on the DVC-II list. As an example, I traded my two Aruba II non DVC resort weeks through SFX for two units the same week at the Embassy on Maui, an RCI only resort. While each of these exchange companies have their benefits, in general, they offer a no membership fee option, more liberal bonus weeks, easier trade up options and lower exchange fees than II in general though more than DVC.

[StevieD]

Mittelst!!!!

Come on, you're still sitting on the fence??? The last time we "met" you were very convincing...it seemed like you were about to pull the trigger on 150 points. As I remember, we had basically done the same analysis (probably won't do WDW every year, interested in trading out once in a while). I convinced myself that DVC offered ultimate flexibility - trade out using MS, trade out privately, HH or VB, bank points, borrow points, or rent points!!

So get with it! You know what they say that sitting on the fence will get you.......don't let this happen!!

[Granny]

Dean,

Thanks for your evaluation and assessment of the various DVC exchange options. I think I've seen most of those opinions posted by you but not all in one place. Very nice.

Since this thread is not about exchange values, I'll not add any comments on that aspect of your post.

[doubletrouble_vb]

IMHO I think there would be insufficient demand for it. There seem to be far more DVC-Concierge exchanges or DVC-Cruise exchanges than DVC-II.

An alternative would be to institute a cultural change where people use the phrase DVC-Trade or DVC-Ex in their posts. That way other board users could do a search on this board for posting in general. Right now I'd probably do 2 searches...one on "II" and one on "Interval". If that didn't get me enough information I'd then search on "Passport", "exchange" or "trade". I wouldn't use a specific resort unless that's exactly what I wanted.

[lovewdw13]

Steve,
I would like it. If it's easy to get to, why not. Since I live in Orlando, I'd love to hear examples of other locations and how many points it took to go there. Obviously, the ones that are week exchanges are the ones I'm curious about.
Benedetta
OKW Member

[mittelst]

StevieD - I have sent you a private message.

[Dean]

I thought those interested in this thread might be interested in the below info. It's for the year ending 31 December, 1999. At that time there were 277 II choices with 2 being built to that were planned to be added. There were 42230 DVC members. There were 125 exchanges owed to DVC members. I assume those were deposit first units. There were 656 II exchanges. 75.8% of the exchange requests were filled but that includes all exchanges, not just first choices. There were 1.6% of the members who exchanged during that year. The numbers were pretty comparable to the 1998 numbers.

In addition, there were 13 options through Buena Vista Exchange Co. yielding 42 exchanges and matching 44.7 % of exchange requests. I don't think they keep these number now as the legal requirements have changed.

[StevieD]

Wow, Dean...I'm impressed! I'm a numbers guy, so I like to see statistics like that. 1.6% is much lower than I would have guessed. Still, with over 650 families a year exchanging, I'd still like to hear more info from them regarding the quality of their exchanges. But maybe you guys are right...the demand doesn't appear to justify a second forum.

[Diznut84]

Personally, I believe that exchanging DVC points for virtually any II exchange through MS is a big ripoff. To exchange into any 1BR unit will typically require between 172-196 points; a 2BR unit will typically require 232-263 points. If you use the $10/pt. value, there are virtually no timeshares in the world that you can't rent for about half that price or less through other means (see TUG classifieds for examples). I seriously doubt that you can't rent any top 2BR timeshare in the world for $1500 for the entire week. I would expect that most top 2BR timeshares can be had for between $700 and $1200. So generally, I think DVCers would be well advised to simply rent out their points and go rent timeshares through TUG or other sources.

I think the larger issues is that DVC members who want to trade out would be advantaged by learning a bit more about non-DVC timesharing. DVC is greatly advantaged in that there is extremely high demand for DVC units and very few deposits. So there are great opportunities for outside exchanges! If more DVC members owned other non-DVC timeshares, they could use either their home properties or exchanges to swap with other DVC members for points. I know from my own personal experience that I would probably only charge a DVC member about 130 points MAXIMUM for any exchange. You might also find that there are some occasional "steals" out there where you can get II Getaways very cheaply and exchange them for DVC points. Personally, I'd like to see this market flourish a bit more. MS is charging members too many points for external exchanges, and worse yet, limiting the choices of DVC members because of these high numbers of points being charged.

Let me post just a few examples from TUG (all 2BR):
Fairfield Seawatch (Myrtle Beach) - June 15th $1100
Marriott's Manor Club (Williamsburg) - July 7th $1200
Marriott's Heritage Club (Hilton Head Island) - June 28th $1400 (free golf!)
Royal Sands (Cancun) - February 2003 $1700
Marriott's Newport Coast - Flexible Dates $1050
Embassy Kauai - Flexible Dates $1500

These are simply the LIST prices. Each unit can probably be rented for less (at least 20%). These are all great resorts, with quality comparable to DVC.

Of course, there are many other solid choices (Williamsburg Greensprings, Myrtle Beach's Presidential Plantation, Hilton Head's Carolina Club, Cancun's Royal Mayan, Anaheim's Dolphin's Cove, and Kauai's Pahio) that can be had for less than or equal to $1000 for the entire week. My point is this: Generally, DVC members would do much better renting out their units for $10 a point and then renting a unit elsewhere. Alternatively, it would be nice to see other DVC members who own non-DVC properties swap these properties for point values that are more in line with the high value of DVC points.

JMHO! :)

[Dean]

Originally posted by StevieD
Still, with over 650 families a year exchanging, I'd still like to hear more info from them regarding the quality of their exchanges. But maybe you guys are right...the demand doesn't appear to justify a second forum. StevieD, part of the problem is that there is so little activity that it would be impossible to get enough data together to make much difference. How many of those traders would be on DIS? There are already options out there to find out about exchange quality and suitability for many resorts. TUG (http://www.tug2.net) and Timesharing Today (http://www.timesharing-today.com/) both have rankings. TUG ranks them and has reviews. TST has more detailed ratings. There is no reason why either of these 2 venues couldn't be helpful to the DVC member interested in trading out. TUG is so cheap that the cost shouldn't enter in at $15 for a year, $10 renewal and $25 for 3 years plus you get a free add for each year.

I find the reviews more helpful. Sometimes you read through and you can tell more from the wording. Some people are resort quality driven and others location driven and that plays a role. One could argue that the quality of one's previous experiences will color the review making what someone else found acceptable, the standards might be higher for the DVC member. I suspect that's pretty negligible overall and you get the benefit of a much larger sampling in terms of more resorts reviewed and increased statistical significance with more reviews/rankings.

I think they quit doing these reports because the laws changed. I haven't tried for any more so I sent an email to MS tonight so we'll see. The reports also listed all of the exchange options by how many owners were at a certain resort and how many units there were at a resort. Still, there's a lot of info out there about the resorts. Things like addresses, phone numbers, websites, picture pages, TUG rankings/reviews, TST ratings and articles, various email lists, type/size of units, lockoff's, low season, day of the week start day, amenties list and the like can be very helpful. Say you want to go to Kauai on a Sat and Club Intrawest starts on Sunday only. Or say you really only need a studio or 1 BR but certain resorts only have 2 BR units that are not lockoff's and you must decide whether to give up points for a 2BR. This type of info will influence one's exchange reqests and choices or at least it should.

My only goal with any of these threads is to provide information and get the members to think. If one decides to exchange in a way different that I feel is a good choice, that's their decision. That's why I'll sometimes post on the rent/trade board some info about a resort and the deal being offered. HINT!!! When I do, try to read between the lines or email me privately for MY opinion, for what it's worth.

And just to make the point that different people see things differently, here is an excerpt from the TUG reviews on II where someone had a "poor" exchange to OKW and I did a rebutal. Read the second part first as they are in reverse chronologic order.11/10/99 - We have stayed at OKW many times in the last 5 years that we have been a [Disney Vacation Club] member. Overall the grounds are great, though the buildings are spread out. To me this is good, but if you don't have a car it can be a hassle. I'd like to address some of the comments in Adrian's review below. This is not meant as a criticism of Adrian, only that others who read this need to know both sides of the story.

1. The $95 transportation fee is well known to II and it is THEIR (II's)* responsibility to tell you about it. If they did not. the beef is with II. The fee has been discussed on this site a number of times as well. I have gone on record as stating I don't agree with the fee, but it is within Disney's rights to charge this fee. I stayed at Marriott in HH this summer and there were no restaurants and no transportation at all.
2. Had Adrian done his homework, he would have known that it is almost impossible to get around from one resort to another using Disney Transportation. (My email address is on this page as a member willing to help). The buses are designed to get you to and from the parks and shopping areas, not from one resort to another. While there are members that never use their car and use the buses exclusively, we almost never use the bus.
3. Other than the $95 fee, I can't think of any other way that Disney treats an exchanger as a second class citizen. DVC members get the same cleaning schedule that Adrian mentioned, use of the pools, etc. The only differences I can think of is that DVC members get free movie checkout, use of the other pools at Disney, slight discounts on some of the activities and a very few discounts at other locations. The only discount for passes is on Length of Stay and it's not as good as many other people get who aren't members. It is routine for members at many resorts to get special items or a collection of discounts not open to exchangers, I see this as the standard.
4. Olivia's restaurant is on the OKW property. We found it to be very good when we were there in July, though it has received mixed reviews. It is Disney priced but less expensive than most sit down Disney restaurants. As a comparison, most of the Marriott's do not even have a restaurant on site and many don't even have a snack bar.
5. I agree with the charge card concerns, but I don't know for certain your liability if you loose your charge card. I suspect it would be no different than my AmEx, except it would get taken care of on the spot assuming you reported it ASAP. BTW, this is the same concern at any location where you can charge to your room, though there's more to charge at Disney.
6. I would agree with the shuttle concerns. Disney also recommends another service where they meet you at Baggage claims and take the entire party with no stops round trip for $75 for up to 7 people. It works great, I did this for my brother on his honeymoon trip and he had NO problems.

In summary, I think the only criticism that is valid is the reasonableness of the $95 fee. I do see the fault as II's for not telling Adrian about this -- it is their responsibility. That's a small price for a room I can routinely rent for $2000 or more for the week and one that most exchangers would wait their entire lifetime to get. Otherwise. I feel the problems Adrian encountered came from his different expectations, lack of preparation and fundamental disagreement that members SHOULD receive some benefits that exchangers do not. Again, this is not meant as an indictment of Adrian,* just a presentation of a different viewpoint.
--* Dean Dalrymple (owner) at deandal@alltel.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/30/99 - We're not in Cancun anymore Toto! Before I start, let me say, I own at the Royal Resorts in Cancun.* I
followed the yellow brick road to Disney's OKW resort through Interval International.* I gained a new appreciation for the Royal Resorts and Cancun from this vacation. Note: We did not rent a car, and depended primarily on Disney transportation.

First things first.* Interval International (II) would like you to believe that exchanging into Disney it only cost you an exchange fee of $95 (give or take a few bucks).* Well, that is not correct.* II collects their $95 and when you get to Disney, they collect their $95.* They like to call this a transportation fee to the parks, however, there really is no such thing.* Anyone can board a bus in the parks (whether or not they stay at a resort).** If you are considering an exchange into the Old Key West let me say that the total cost for such an exchange is going to be more like $190 (plus the yearly membership for II which makes it about $250, ouch).* II will not tell you this (and they should).

From the airport, DON'T TAKE THE SHUTTLE SERVICE (MEARS OR WHATEVER).* If you are a party of 3 or more, just take a cab (they can handle up to 8 people) and you can get to Disney cheaper than using the shuttle.* Disney recommends MEARS (probably gets kickbacks).

I found out that Disney basically has 3 categories of guests in their resort.* Let me draw the stereotypical analogy for you. Renter (girlfriend), member (wife), II Exchange (X).* The renters get full daily room service, something like wooing the girlfriend during courtship.* The Owner* gets minimal service every 4th day (not much unlike a stereotypical husband/wife relationship).* The exchange "member" is treated like an X, no special privileges, have to pay extra to stay, and use some of the facilities.* NOW, in my humble opinion, a member should be treated the same as a renter and an exchange member.* But apparently, this does not make a good business case.

The bus transportation is inconvenient.* In general, you cannot go directly from one resort on the property to another resort on the property.* You have to stop at either Downtown Disney or one of the Parks and switch busses.* This can easily take over an hour to travel to another resort to use their facilities.* At times, we ended up paying a cab to avoid this (so much for the transportation fee).

There is only one restaurant on the Old Key West property and it was overpriced by at least 20% and the food was mediocre at best. This was a big minus in my book. We were having a hard time finding a good place to eat anywhere on Disney's property. We actually took a cab out of the park for breakfast to get a good breakfast and saved money and got a better breakfast over what Disney was offering. See above for inconvenience in traveling to another Disney resort restaurant on
property. Wolfgang Puck's restaurant in Downtown Disney was great for dinner; however, it comes at a steep price.

The grounds at the Old Key West Resort and the accommodations themselves were excellent.* Disney is tops in visual appearance.* We had a two bedroom resort that had some very minor wear and tear.* If you have a choice of buildings, take the building closest to the Front Desk/Club/Tennis Courts/pool.* These buildings, I was told, usually gets requested 11 months in advance.* We were fortunate to have one available when we arrived.

When checking in, you receive cards that are keys to your unit and can also be activated to pay for things on the property (like a credit card).* I would recommend that you tell them not to activate the charge option on your card and just use your credit card.* If anyone stole your card or you lost it, you would have little recourse to getting your money back.* Most major credit cards will credit any purchases not made by you without much hassle.* There really isn't any advantage for using their room cards as credit cards.

Please note,* a Disney vacation is expensive.* They are a unique park, they know it and they remind you of it every time you have to pay. Overall, we had a good time; however, unlike Cancun,* I can't see myself coming to Disney every year.

Hope this helps,* Th-th-th that's all folks! (Oops, wrong company!)* --* Adrian Madau at amadau@visteon.com*

[Dean]

gthorson (Greg), we agree that DVC-II exchaning is lacking and that there are few resorts that is a fair exchange even up. That's why I've suggested to many to consider less DVC points and buy something else for exchanging, maybe Marriott. This strategy works well for one who is interested in both options.

I'd like to see DVC members be full members of II, get the book , get the bonus weeks, have access to getaways and the like. It would also give the opportunity to trade up in unit size and season as well as select the desired week to maximize trading power. I'd also like to see DVC negotiate a better deal on the other points options, there's no reason why they shouldn't.

[Diznut84]

I think DVC should align with RCI points. I'm certain RCI would give DVC very good terms for its usage, and DVC members would enjoy the same type of flexibility they're used to in the Disney Collection.

[Dean]

Greg, though there is some merit to your suggestion, I don't think this is the time. The RCI points aren't quite main stream enough to provide the opporunities that DVC would like to. By the time they selected out the acceptable, non Orlando resorts; there's not that much left. IMO, DVC would be better off with an independent alliance with some of the points companies out there to included Bluegreen, WorldMark, Starwood, Club Intrawest, maybe shell, and a couple of others and possibly some of the resorts that do points on their own like Paradise Village. They could offer this in addition to the II options with relatively little cost under the circumstances. DVC already has essentially an exchange company set up with BVTC and staff that work with exchanges so I don't think the transition would be that much at all.

You may know that DVC was with RCI previously and apparently the parting was not that gracious. Ken May was the Chairman previously at DVC and now is CEO at RCI. I understand that RCI was to have a presentation for DVC last summer or early fall but I don't know if it ever happened. It was about the time that the II contract was up. The II contract was actually put off until fall even though it was up in June. I don't know if this had anything to do with the RCI push or not.

Still, I personally think that the time for major changes has come.

[Diznut84]

Although there are not many resorts formally affiliated with RCI points, the equivalent number of points needed to "raid" the weeks pool (which is much larger than II in its entirety) is still attractive. RCI is struggling to get RCI points off the ground. Landing DVC would be a major victory and I think there would be a strong likelihood that RCI would make entrance into RCI points free (it usually requires a substantial conversion fee).

[StevieD]

Dean, do you have an opinion on why we don't get good value on our II trades. One would think that trades into DVC are in high demand - therefore why don't we get better trades through II???

[Dean]

Originally posted by StevieD
Dean, do you have an opinion on why we don't get good value on our II trades. One would think that trades into DVC are in high demand - therefore why don't we get better trades through II??? I have some thoughts for what they're worth. As far as the DC, CC, DCL, etc; I think it's been the lack of willingness to put the members interests first. I think DVC is being taken advantage of by the other companies within the Disney structure. As for II, I think DVC is trying to protect us and with that protection comes the negatives I've talked about over the past few years. Of course the other problem is that most any trade will be a trade down due in part to the location of the WDW DVC resorts and that's something that's unlikely to change change or at least I hope not. And don't forget the loss of flexibility when exchnging as compared to using the points with DVC.

[Diznut84]

Part of the problem is due to II's recent change in philosophy. Currently, II generally requires like size and quality exchanges only. RCI, on the other hand, allows members with high demand weeks to use smaller units (including studios) to trade into larger units. II used to practice this as well up until about 18 months ago. A relaxation of this rule by II would produce more reasonable trade results for DVC members. I am certain that a 1BR DVC deposit during March or summer would pull ANYTHING if it could be deposited with a major exchange company. Of course, as Dean has pointed out, some of the independent exchange companies are able to do this for you now...

[Dean]

Greg, it's not really II as much as it's DVC. The like size exchange requirement has been in the plan from the beginning.

[Diznut84]

That's even more demoralizing. Why wouldn't DVC work on behalf of its members to try and maximize their trade power? Hmmm.....

[Dean]

Greg, seems this thread is just down to you and me. Hopefully others are getting something out of it. Talking about II, I don't think DVC went out and decided to stick it to the members. I suspect that it's the only way they could work things out with the points system and the request first. My problem is all the things members give up to have the system they have.

The positives of the current system are the request first options up to 2 years out, no membership fee and the $75 exchange fee. That compares to the alternative of limited request first directly with II, $79 a years membership and exchange fees of $121 and ?$144. Since I belong to II anyway and use the exchange system, I think we give up too much for these benefits. No wish book, no getaways, no chance to exchange up, no trade value comensurate with the week deposited and no bonus weeks. Of course one can get much of this with some of the smaller independent exchange companies but still, it's not the same. The current system may truly benefit those that will trade out rarely or never and don't want to do any research to find out about their options.

I would think an in between agreement would be the best. The current system could be changed slightly to include either all or a wider range of resorts. I'm sure DVC could put preasure on II to allow a one unit size upgrade, particularly when the member only needs/wants a smaller unit than the resort has to offer. Say you only need a 1 BR and they only have 2 BR units or you want a studio and the smallest is a 1 BR.

The other thing that could be changed has to do with exchange power. Warning, the following is my supposition and assumption and does not come from II or DVC. My assumption is that II has assigned a generic trade power to DVC which is somewhat of an average of the type of units that get deposited. That would be OK for Orlando but for HH off season, that's a dog and has to drag the trade power down somewhat since they're all averaged in. I also assume that II does not adjust the trade power for the deposit first units. If a member got the trade power comensurate with the week deposited, move to the head of the line with Xmas, Spring Break or 4th of July especially.

As for the other Disney and related options, I've never been totally sure. I would guess they're trying to be team players, but at our expense. Personally, I'd like to see DVC stick to their guns and demand better exchange rates, maybe even play one or more WDW resort against the others. Make it pretty much like buying a car.

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by Dean
Greg, seems this thread is just down to you and me. Hopefully others are getting something out of it.....

I've been reading every word (and plan to print out the entrie thread when it finally drops to the back pages). I very much appreciate the time you and Greg are taking to post your experience-based opinions and comments. Please don't stop because you think no one else is interested. I am and I'm sure there are lots of others who are equally interested. THANKS!

[Dean]

Originally posted by Dean
I thought those interested in this thread might be interested in the below info. It's for the year ending 31 December, 1999. At that time there were 277 II choices with 2 being built to that were planned to be added. There were 42230 DVC members. There were 125 exchanges owed to DVC members. I assume those were deposit first units. There were 656 II exchanges. 75.8% of the exchange requests were filled but that includes all exchanges, not just first choices. There were 1.6% of the members who exchanged during that year. The numbers were pretty comparable to the 1998 numbers.

In addition, there were 13 options through Buena Vista Exchange Co. yielding 42 exchanges and matching 44.7 % of exchange requests. I don't think they keep these number now as the legal requirements have changed. For the year ending 2000, there were 319 II choices plus 3 being built. DVC had 52571 members of which 1.9% did an exchange. 68.6% of the requsts were completed TO SOME ACCEPTABLE CHOICE. That was 979 exchanges and 193 deposit firsts not yet matched. The numbers do not look favorable with a steady decrease of percentages matched. This suggests to me that the trade power might be down slightly. Keep in mind this was about the time when one could start to search up to 2 years out compared to 18 months.