So What's Coming to the New Pleasure Island?

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Supposedly higher-up managers at Disney World saw a presentation a few weeks ago about what's coming to the new Pleasure Island. Supposedly they left the meeting very impressed. Supposedly they're sworn to secrecy. Yet other than the officially announced Hanes t-shirt store, there has been nothing leaked.

Come on! Disboard members have more sources than Woodward & Bernstein. Yet I've seen nothing. There has to be some information floating around out there. What's coming to PI that's going to make all the hoopla worthwhile? I'm hoping for hippo feedings and zip lines!

BobK/Orlando
but live from Chicago

[doconeill]

Supposedly higher-up managers at Disney World saw a presentation a few weeks ago about what's coming to the new Pleasure Island. Supposedly they left the meeting very impressed. Supposedly they're sworn to secrecy. Yet other than the officially announced Hanes t-shirt store, there has been nothing leaked.

Come on! Disboard members have more sources than Woodward & Bernstein. Yet I've seen nothing. There has to be some information floating around out there. What's coming to PI that's going to make all the hoopla worthwhile? I'm hoping for hippo feedings and zip lines!

BobK/Orlando


Oooh...a zip line top/from SSR might boost bookings there...

[LuluLovesDisney]

Oooh...a zip line top/from SSR might boost bookings there...

lmao!!!!

Seriously, I'm w the OP, I'd love to know what's going on--it better be good since they're killing my Adventurer's Club!

[TDC Nala]

They must have never seen a tethered balloon before.

[Maistre Gracey]

My source says they will be offering a v-neck addition to the t-shirt line...
I wish I could back that up with multiple sources, but for now that's unverified...

MG

[Jason71]

Supposedly higher-up managers at Disney World saw a presentation a few weeks ago about what's coming to the new Pleasure Island. Supposedly they left the meeting very impressed.

Considering they apparently are not impressed by the pinnacle of Disney Imagineering that is the AdClub, I think thier opinion is somewhat suspect.

One interesting tidbit I picked up on...the new frozen Kungaloosh machine in the Club (frozen Kungalooshes are back BTW) will be going to the outside bar when the Club closes. So apparently outside drink sales will continue at the new "family-friendly" DTD.

[sassytink03]

One interesting tidbit I picked up on...the new frozen Kungaloosh machine in the Club (frozen Kungalooshes are back BTW) will be going to the outside bar when the Club closes. So apparently outside drink sales will continue at the new "family-friendly" DTD.[/QUOTE]


Oh, that makes perfect sense..:rolleyes: Let's close down the best club around, but let's leave the bar open outside. Get real Disney! Do they really think that we will go buy a drink at the bar when there is nothing else there for us? Besides, with Disney closing down the bus drop off point and the rest of the clubs, who is going to go there just to have a drink right now?

[disrailfan]

Besides, with Disney closing down the bus drop off point and the rest of the clubs, who is going to go there just to have a drink right now?

So does that mean they are opening the west side stop back up if they are closing the PI Stop?

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

So does that mean they are opening the west side stop back up if they are closing the PI Stop?

Yes, this is confirmed on another thread.


So apparently outside drink sales will continue at the new "family-friendly" DTD.

Yes, I have confirmed this. The woman who currently is the manager of Mannequins will manage the outside bars on PI. I believe 3 will remain open; the one near the hub, the one adjacent Comedy Warehouse and the "hut" outside AC.


Oooh...a zip line top/from SSR might boost bookings there...

Hey, not a bad idea. Or maybe a cable car operation!

BobK/Orlando

[patsal]

Oh goody, now I can get drunk whilst wearing my sweet personalized V neck tee and blow chunks from the tethered balloon ride:rolleyes: I can hardly wait. Seriously what is the deal with the tethered balloon ride--totallly lame-o!

[Honey81808]

My husband and I went on Friday night and it was HORRIBLE!! The cigarette and cigar smoke was horrific. We went to Mannequins and it was just horrific as well the music sucked because they kept mixing it with awful techno beat circa 1990 Webster Hall NYC. The crowd was VERY cougar like. There were three woman groping each other and dancing way to close to one another. we also went to Motion was not good at all. The played AWFUL hip hop by many people with the title LIL in front of there names. It's wasn't the PI that I recalled from my youth that i was dying to go back to. I can see why they are closing it. I understand that it's part of Disney but once you start letting ANYONE into a club like scene it is eventually going to go downhill.

[cranbiz]

Sorry,

The PI bus stops are closing for rehab and will reopen around Sept 12th.

[Jason71]

Seriously what is the deal with the tethered balloon ride--totallly lame-o!

The same company that built the London Eye is building a giant ferris wheel with observation decks just off I-Drive. Need to put that out of business!

While I'm glad it means a few of my bartenders will continue to work, I stil can't get over the absurdity of TWO bars across from one another, surrounded by a surf shop and a bunch of empty buildings. It will be worse than Festival Bay.

[zulemara]

My husband and I went on Friday night and it was HORRIBLE!! The cigarette and cigar smoke was horrific. We went to Mannequins and it was just horrific as well the music sucked because they kept mixing it with awful techno beat circa 1990 Webster Hall NYC. The crowd was VERY cougar like. There were three woman groping each other and dancing way to close to one another. we also went to Motion was not good at all. The played AWFUL hip hop by many people with the title LIL in front of there names. It's wasn't the PI that I recalled from my youth that i was dying to go back to. I can see why they are closing it. I understand that it's part of Disney but once you start letting ANYONE into a club like scene it is eventually going to go downhill.

So you saw three women dancing too close together(be glad you don't get me on a soapbox here) in the club everyone regards as the gay club, then you went to the top 40s club when you obviously don't like top 40s music, and then come out of it saying PI should close? Did you try 8-trax? did you try the AC or CW? Thank god you didn't go into BET, you would have REALLY been complaining.

PI has something for everyone. If you don't like techno or top 40s, I'm assuming you would at least enjoy 70s and 80s.

[Honey81808]

I DO like top 40. My husband always comments that I have the music taste of a High School Freshman. I'm very diverse in my music choices, my IPOD goes from Jay- Z to Kerli. We did go to 8 track I guess overall the crowd was just way to old to me. It looked like old people trying to regain there youth and very classless people ALSO I wasn't offended by the fact that the three woman were dancing together they were just not attractive and older like in their 40's. Gay or not that to me is way too old to be doing that. Also I think because I'm originally from NYC and live in Boston my expectations of clubbing or going out are a bit higher.

[LuluLovesDisney]

I DO like top 40. My husband always comments that I have the music taste of a High School Freshman. I'm very diverse in my music choices, my IPOD goes from Jay- Z to Kerli. We did go to 8 track I guess overall the crowd was just way to old to me. It looked like old people trying to regain there youth and very classless people ALSO I wasn't offended by the fact that the three woman were dancing together they were just not attractive and older like in their 40's. Gay or not that to me is way too old to be doing that. Also I think because I'm originally from NYC and live in Boston my expectations of clubbing or going out are a bit higher.

You're more offended by their age and their looks than the groping?

I agree with you that PI was going downhill and needs a revamp, but I just thought that was sort of interesting.

The AC is/was unique and I hope they bring that back in some form, somewhere. My own opinion is that they should rebuild AC at one of the resorts and make a dinner package- buy dinner at one of the resort restaurants and get a discount admission to the AC. Senior citizens get in for free-- j/k.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The cigarette and cigar smoke was horrific.
You must have been OUTSIDE because smoking is not allowed inside. I can't imagine where smoke is thick outside unless you were in a smoking lounge or inside the cigar bar. I've been to NYC clubs and they are full of smoke.


We went to Mannequins and it was just horrific as well the music sucked because they kept mixing it with awful techno beat circa 1990 Webster Hall NYC.
I have no clue what you're talking about. I was there Friday night and the DJ was playing current house, trance, dance and dance remixes. It is, after all, a techno club.


we also went to Motion was not good at all. The played AWFUL hip hop by many people with the title LIL in front of there names.
I have to agree with Zulemara. Motion plays Top 40 and it just so happens Top 40 right now is mostly hip hop. You must not go clubbing much anymore back home because that is what is being played nearly everywhere. I don't like it either but it's a reality. This is what is so upsetting about the closing of all the clubs at PI; there was actually a variety of music to choose from at PI.


It's wasn't the PI that I recalled from my youth that i was dying to go back to. I can see why they are closing it.
I'm not here to change you're opinion; you're entitled to your opinion. They say you "can't go home again" and I'm not sure what you're remembering from your youth. PI has changed with the walk-through traffic, the lack of outdoor stages, the closed stores, the closed restaurants, the lack of fireworks and so on. Most of us agree those things led to its demise. But I don't think the music led to its demise.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

You're more offended by their age and their looks than the groping?

I agree with you that PI was going downhill and needs a revamp, but I just thought that was sort of interesting.

The AC is/was unique and I hope they bring that back in some form, somewhere. My own opinion is that they should rebuild AC at one of the resorts and make a dinner package- buy dinner at one of the resort restaurants and get a discount admission to the AC. Senior citizens get in for free-- j/k.

I live in a city with the world record for most consecutive bars on one street and the world's largest six pack. Yet, the clubs that PI offered are the only escape from the beer drinking, country playing, smoke filled bars with a dance floor measuring a whole 10x10. At one time Mannequins was rated one of the best techno clubs in the country and the only reason that changed is because Disney let it change. I don't doubt that your bigger cities offer a different environment, but for people like me, Disney is the only clubbing I can ever dream about. Throw in the free transportation and I know I can be safe and still have a good time.

also FYI I wouldn't be surprised if the older women were European.

[Honey81808]

You must have been OUTSIDE because smoking is not allowed inside. I can't imagine where smoke is thick outside unless you were in a smoking lounge or inside the cigar bar. I've been to NYC clubs and they are full of smoke.



I have no clue what you're talking about. I was there Friday night and the DJ was playing current house, trance, dance and dance remixes. It is, after all, a techno club.



I have to agree with Zulemara. Motion plays Top 40 and it just so happens Top 40 right now is mostly hip hop. You must not go clubbing much anymore back home because that is what is being played nearly everywhere. I don't like it either but it's a reality. This is what is so upsetting about the closing of all the clubs at PI; there was actually a variety of music to choose from at PI.



I'm not here to change you're opinion; you're entitled to your opinion. They say you "can't go home again" and I'm not sure what you're remembering from your youth. PI has changed with the walk-through traffic, the lack of outdoor stages, the closed stores, the closed restaurants, the lack of fireworks and so on. Most of us agree those things led to its demise. But I don't think the music led to its demise.

BobK/Orlando

I dis notice the lack of outside entertainment and I remember there being a beach club like bar with a live band. They played Dishwalla, I was sooo happy!! i was also 13 or 14. At 28 I go out not often but as much as I can and when I do GOOD Hip Hop is played and GOOD House. Trust me I love the house I have a t shirt that says so!! HAHAAH I was outside in a cloud of smoke BTW and In NYC you can not smoke inside nor in Boston. I personally think the crowd lead to the demise. Just my opinion. And yes their age bothered me. When you're young you don't want to see someone your moms age grinding all up on two of her friends.

[TDC Nala]

I have to laugh at being offended at the "old" people as I am having my 44th birthday at PI on Saturday - don't worry, I'll stick to the Adventurers Club where I probably won't offend anyone by just sitting in a chair (I hope)

[LuluLovesDisney]

I live in a city with the world record for most consecutive bars on one street and the world's largest six pack. Yet, the clubs that PI offered are the only escape from the beer drinking, country playing, smoke filled bars with a dance floor measuring a whole 10x10. At one time Mannequins was rated one of the best techno clubs in the country and the only reason that changed is because Disney let it change. I don't doubt that your bigger cities offer a different environment, but for people like me, Disney is the only clubbing I can ever dream about. Throw in the free transportation and I know I can be safe and still have a good time.

also FYI I wouldn't be surprised if the older women were European.

Since you mentioned "your bigger cities," I think you meant to quote Honey, not me. Just checking. ;)

[EvilQueensandPixieDu]

I do hope they somehow go back to the old PI. Doubt it but hope.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I remember there being a beach club like bar with a live band. In NYC you can not smoke inside nor in Boston. And yes their age bothered me. When you're young you don't want to see someone your moms age grinding all up on two of her friends.

Unfortunately, the Rock'n'Roll Beach Club closed this past February, the first of the club closures. I was in the world-famous Pacha in NYC this past May and you most certainly can smoke. It was horrible! As for the middle-aged grinders, I know one of them and just don't recall who the other two were. But the one I know is married and her husband was there. She does seem to attract other girls and usually they're younger. When one of the top club and radio songs this summer is Katy Perry's I Kissed A Girl, their behavior is hardly unusual and similarly can be found in clubs all over the world.


Also FYI I wouldn't be surprised if the older women were European.
Actually, from what I've observed from my weekly visits, they're locals with an occasional tourist joining the grind; a couple hispanics too. They're just having fun.

BobK/Orlando

[EvilQueensandPixieDu]

The women with her were not young. To each their own I guess. I just hope that by the time I go back PI is revamped into something worth while. FYI you are not allowed to smoke in bar NYC unless it has an outside pavilion. I don't know about the smoking rule I guess. I know where I go out Oyster Bar and such, I always have to go outside and keep my GF company while she inhales cancer. HAHAAH

[zulemara]

Since you mentioned "your bigger cities," I think you meant to quote Honey, not me. Just checking. ;)

yes probably. I often type very fast in between responding ot emails and browsing message boards. being self employed is tough:cool1:

[cowza]

There is going to be a big hot air balloon you can pay to ride in like in the Disney Village at Disneyland Paris. I'm sure that was already announced though along with the t shirt store.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

There is going to be a big hot air balloon you can pay to ride in like in the Disney Village at Disneyland Paris. I'm sure that was already announced though along with the t shirt store.

My understanding is that the hot air balloon ride will be over in DD West Side, not Pleasure Island. Only the South American restaurant and t-shirt shop has been announced.

Hotel brochure racks around Florida now have an information "card" brochure (English on one side, Spanish on the other) entitled "Pleasure Island, What's In, What's Out, What's Up" and it explains all the clubs are closing. I've scanned it onto my blogsite at: http://www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

BobK/Orlando

[rpmdfw]

My understanding is that the hot air balloon ride will be over in DD West Side, not Pleasure Island. Only the South American restaurant and t-shirt shop has been announced.

Hotel brochure racks around Florida now have an information "card" brochure (English on one side, Spanish on the other) entitled "Pleasure Island, What's In, What's Out, What's Up" and it explains all the clubs are closing. I've scanned it onto my blogsite at: http://www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

BobK/Orlando

I just went to your blog and looked at the card. It's nauseating.

Just like every other response back to concerns that they're killing the magic, it's message is "We don't care what you want, you WILL be excited about mediorcre dining and increased shopping. You WILL want what we tell you to want! Here, look at the craptastic dinosaur restaurant. You'll love it!":mad:

It all looks so "lowest common denominator" to me.:headache:

[cowza]

My understanding is that the hot air balloon ride will be over in DD West Side, not Pleasure Island. Only the South American restaurant and t-shirt shop has been announced.


Yeah you're most definitely right there. What I would love to see is a really unique Disney dining experience. The dinner shows they do in Orlando are so popular and Disney do a few of them like the Hawaiian one at the Polynesian and the one at Fort Wilderness. But there isn't one that *theatrical* really.

With the space they had there in Pleasure Island tho they could do something really special. Just a thought... but something like 'Mulan'... I can imagine acrobats and broadway style musical numbers.

Something like that would be VERY popular I'm sure!?

What do yall think? Mulan is just a passing thought... there's plenty of options. They could easily borrow influences from the Aladdin show at DL and do something with that. Or a Pirates of the Caribbean one. SO many options really!

[buf68]

They should totally build something like a Medival times, but focus it around mulan or some other disney character(s). They could totally do it and with the space on PI it would work. It would definately be a creative disney dining experience.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I just went to your blog and looked at the card. It's nauseating.

Well we know that the South American restaurant is going to turn into a club later in the evening with salsa and similar music and dancing. Presumably some of the other new restaurants will do similar. So how has the place become more family friendly? NOT. It's all a bunch of b.s.

BobK/Orlando

[buf68]

so it'll be family friendly daytime, party nightlife night time ? That would work...

[rpmdfw]

So, how is it that the Adventurers Club, already the most family friendly place on the island doesn't fit with this concept?

I can not believe that Disney can't find something to do with that space during the day.

Everything that they're telling us is a load of bull.

[Luv2Roam]

I have not heard anything going in PI or DTD that even comes close to a wow factor. :sad2: Not even anything interesting, quite frankly.
I HOPE they prove me wrong.
:sick:

[Jason71]

Yeah you're most definitely right there. What I would love to see is a really unique Disney dining experience. The dinner shows they do in Orlando are so popular and Disney do a few of them like the Hawaiian one at the Polynesian and the one at Fort Wilderness. But there isn't one that *theatrical* really.

With the space they had there in Pleasure Island tho they could do something really special. Just a thought... but something like 'Mulan'... I can imagine acrobats and broadway style musical numbers.


They should totally build something like a Medival times, but focus it around mulan or some other disney character(s). They could totally do it and with the space on PI it would work. It would definately be a creative disney dining experience.

You're both missing the point, I'm afraid. Disney, as a corporation, isn't going to do anything. They'll lease the space and let someone else build/run the operation (like Rainforest Cafe--there are similar RFCs across the country not on Disney property). Doubtful Disney characters will be involved, unless the 3d party operator is willing to pony up a licensing fee.

Did Disney ever officially claim the new PI would be more "family-friendly"? Or was that just spin/wishful thinking on the boards from the pixie dust crowd? Because right now the "new" PI will be the outdoor bars, a Harley shop, a cigar bar, and a two high-end restaurants that prominently feature bars. Find it hard to believe their PR people were that brazen.

[kstinw19]

A dinosaur restaurant?? Really?? Why??

I have four little kids, three of them boys, and they won't even be interested in a dinosaur restaurant. :confused3

I am really worried about this one...I will be shocked if it isn't just more stores and restaurants. :sad2:

[AdventurerKat]

Wow, that brochure just makes it all sound so exciting, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[Forever42]

I have to laugh at being offended at the "old" people as I am having my 44th birthday at PI on Saturday - don't worry, I'll stick to the Adventurers Club where I probably won't offend anyone by just sitting in a chair (I hope)

We were there all evening on Saturday - wonder if we saw you?

Went over to Mannequins for the first time after the Hoopla and had a GREAT time (we're mid 20s) until DH lost our camera with 4 months worth of un-downloaded photos on it.

[cowza]

Well I was a CM at Disney World and when we were given the green light to tell guests officially about Pleasure Island closing, we were also told it was going to redeveloped into more family friendly shopping and dining experiences. That was the official statement.

We were told about the hot air balloon being launched in Downtown Disney like they have in Paris but anything else hasnt been officially announced yet.

To be honest I'm not really sure how much of the stuff in Pleasure Island is Disney owned or leased? If they own it they can potentially do anything they want I guess.

[Talking Hands]

Sorry,

The PI bus stops are closing for rehab and will reopen around Sept 12th.
Yikes! I'm going to PI on the 6th. Where will I be let off and how long will it take to get to PI? I will be using a power wheelchair. How long should I figure for getting from All Star Music to PI.

[zulemara]

My understanding is that the hot air balloon ride will be over in DD West Side, not Pleasure Island. Only the South American restaurant and t-shirt shop has been announced.

Hotel brochure racks around Florida now have an information "card" brochure (English on one side, Spanish on the other) entitled "Pleasure Island, What's In, What's Out, What's Up" and it explains all the clubs are closing. I've scanned it onto my blogsite at: http://www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

BobK/Orlando

absolutely pathetic. We're going to take away everything Disney owned and operated and replace it with 3rd party operations because we're cheap and don't care about your experience.

Rob hit it right on the head. Disney is giving the middle finger to its guests and especially to the convention, college, and single adult crowd.

[TDC Nala]

We were there all evening on Saturday - wonder if we saw you?

Went over to Mannequins for the first time after the Hoopla and had a GREAT time (we're mid 20s) until DH lost our camera with 4 months worth of un-downloaded photos on it.

You probably did at some point.

[ThurlFan]

Double Barf. T-Rex cafe? We've already got one here in the Kansas City area. Over by the giant Cabela's store and Nebraska Furniture Mart. Yeah, I want to fly to Florida for that...Dolts.:mad:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Double Barf. T-Rex cafe? We've already got one here in the Kansas City area. Over by the giant Cabela's store and Nebraska Furniture Mart. Yeah, I want to fly to Florida for that...Dolts.:mad:
I understand the one in KC is the first one built and DTD is going to be the second one. Thus, for nearly everyone in the country and for foreign visitors, this will be a first encounter with T-Rex Cafe. ThurlFan party of 4, your adventure is about to begin!


We were there all evening on Saturday - wonder if we saw you?
You definitely saw ME as I was in Mannequins nearly the entire evening Saturday night. I recall someone taking photos of the hanging upside down mannequins....was that you?

BobK/Orlando

[Scurvy]

We were there all evening on Saturday - wonder if we saw you?

Went over to Mannequins for the first time after the Hoopla and had a GREAT time (we're mid 20s) until DH lost our camera with 4 months worth of un-downloaded photos on it.


I was there, too! Was that the night that Pamelia did the Titanic song during the Hoopla? If so, you saw my husband . . . he was one of the guys holding the words for the song. :)

That's awful about your camera! Did you check lost and found just in case? I've heard that some people have had luck with that.

By the way, some people who have talked to the Disney board members about trying to save the Adventurers Club have been told that the decision to close PI has nothing to do with "family friendly" and everything to do with money. They can make more (in the short term, at least) by leasing out the space. I think some people who are excited about reclaiming this "scary" area of DTD and making it family friendly are going to be sorely disappointed when new outsourced bars, restaurants, and shops show up and the area is no more family friendly than it is now.

[zulemara]

I was there, too! Was that the night that Pamelia did the Titanic song during the Hoopla? If so, you saw my husband . . . he was one of the guys holding the words for the song. :)

That's awful about your camera! Did you check lost and found just in case? I've heard that some people have had luck with that.

By the way, some people who have talked to the Disney board members about trying to save the Adventurers Club have been told that the decision to close PI has nothing to do with "family friendly" and everything to do with money. They can make more (in the short term, at least) by leasing out the space. I think some people who are excited about reclaiming this "scary" area of DTD and making it family friendly are going to be sorely disappointed when new outsourced bars, restaurants, and shops show up and the area is no more family friendly than it is now.

Although it's slightly better to hear that it's about the bottom dollar instead of being family friendly, it's still a big cop out. They used to make plenty of money with it, but they stopped promoting it! How much does it really cost to promote your own stuff on your own property?

I still don't understand why they refurbished 8-trax and fixed up signs at Mannequins if they were expecting to close it. It's so obvious their left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. After reading half of Disney War, it doesn't surprise me.

[Forever42]

I was there, too! Was that the night that Pamelia did the Titanic song during the Hoopla? If so, you saw my husband . . . he was one of the guys holding the words for the song. :)

That's awful about your camera! Did you check lost and found just in case? I've heard that some people have had luck with that.



Stupid me, I had to check with DH about the Titanic song since I was listening to a Barenaked Ladies concert yesterday with a Titanic song in it, and that's all I could hear in my head when I thought of the word, "Titanic."

Ahem. Yes, that was it though! And we'd have PICTURES of your husband if mine hadn't lost the camera..

We've been checking with Lost and Found daily. I guess I just am devastated that someone would pick up a camera, see that there are hundreds of family pictures and such on it, and keep it. I'm trying not to think about it too much so I don't cry, really.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Did Disney ever officially claim the new PI would be more "family-friendly"? Or was that just spin/wishful thinking on the boards from the pixie dust crowd? Because right now the "new" PI will be the outdoor bars, a Harley shop, a cigar bar, and a two high-end restaurants that prominently feature bars. Find it hard to believe their PR people were that brazen.

Ahhh, yes, don't you recall the breaking news article in the Orlando Sentinel? Here's the link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-disney2808jun28,0,2367595.story

The Sentinel article leads with, "Walt Disney World is shutting down the six nightclubs at Pleasure Island to make its party district at Downtown Disney more family friendly."

Later in the article Lansberry is quoted as saying, "Some of the offerings might feel like a nightclub, but they won't feel like high-energy clubs like we have today in all likelihood," Lansberry said. "Truthfully, our guests have really gotten out of that in the last couple of years. They want things that are a lot more geared toward family entertainment."

So PI is going to have offerings that FEEL like a nightcub, but won't be high energy. What kind of crap is that? So yes, apparently a Harley store, cigar bar, 3 outdoor bars and multiple low energy night clubs will be part of the new PI!

BobK/Orlando

[DanMedix]

Yep. Harleys, cigars, and booze. Sounds fun for a night with "me and the boys", but hardly what I'd call Family-Friendly. Hardly a place where I'd bring my children.

The last time I was at Mannequins, was many moons ago (back in 94 I believe). I thought it was kinda cool. But, here in the Memphis area, I see the same thing happening with the clubs here. At first, they're cool, with good DJ's, etc. Then they get run down, the thugs show up, and you get edged out. It becomes a place you wouldn't be caught dead in. Eventually, it turns into "GRAND CLOSING". (Here in this area, however, it's a much quicker process....like over a few MONTHS)

...and there's nothing wrong with some attractive cougars! Heck, if I saw 3 hot girls with each other, I wouldn't be mad....I'd be JEALOUS that I wasn't with them :lovestruc

[NMW]

Double Barf. T-Rex cafe? We've already got one here in the Kansas City area. Over by the giant Cabela's store and Nebraska Furniture Mart. Yeah, I want to fly to Florida for that...Dolts.:mad:


I really don't know why people here are picking on this restaurant so much. I think it's a little over the top really. What about all the people that don't live in KC? I can only speak for myself, but I've never been there, and I have to say that the likelyhood of a KC trip in my future is pretty much non-exsistent.

The Rainforest Cafe does well at DTD if the 2 hour waits are any indication. Why wouldn't the T-Rex place do well also? It's the same kind of heavily themed concept. I think the place sounds pretty neat. My youngest son is turning 10 and I'm sure he'd want to go-at least to just see it! My daughter is 6 and I'm sure she'd like it also. :confused3 I really don't understand the animosity posters have towards this place. Is it because it's outsourced? So are Raglan Road, PYC, HOB, WGP, Fultons, Bongos, Rainforest, and lots of other stores at DTD. Is it because it's not a new dance club? I really don't understand.

I also don't understand the Harley store not being for children thing. While my husband and I are in no way "Harley" people, I have a framed photo of my kids sitting on the motorcycle in the store on one of my bookcases. We went in the store and I thought it was fine. This was even 1 1/2 years ago when my kids were even younger. The cigar store I think we by-passed because of the smell, but so what? It's not like I was offended it was there. Plus, you can buy beer from outside bar/vendor places and walk around on the MP side too. We did it in May. I don't here people arguing that this makes the Market Place side not "family-friendly"

As for the hot-air balloon thing. I thought that was going to be on the MP side along with the bigger stage thing. Is the balloon so bad? Do the people in Paris just hate it?? Again, I understand people are upset about the clubs closing...but what's the big deal about the T-Rex place (which will be just like every other outsourced restaurant in DTD) and the balloon ride?

[Scurvy]

I really don't know why people here are picking on this reataurant so much. I think it's a little over the top really. What about all the people that don't live in KC? I can only speak for myself, but I've never been there, and I have to say that the likelyhood of a KC trip in my future is pretty much non-exsistent.

The Rainforest Cafe does well at DTD if the 2 hour waits are any indication. Why wouldn't the T-Rex place do well also? It's the same kind of heavily themed concept. I think the place sounds pretty neat. My youngest son is turning 10 and I'm sure he'd want to go-at least to just see it! My daughter is 6 and I'm sure she'd like it also. :confused3 I really don't understand the animosity posters have towards this place. Is it because it's outsourced? So are Raglan Road, PYC, HOB, WGP, Fultons, Bongos, Rainforest, and lots of other stores at DTD. Is it because it's not a new dance club? I really don't understand.

I also don't understand the Harley store not being for children thing. While my husband and I are in no way "Harley" people, I have a framed photo of my kids sitting on the motorcycle in the store on one of my bookcases. We went in the store and I thought it was fine. This was even 1 1/2 years ago when my kids were even younger. The cigar store I think we by-passed because of the smell, but so what? It's not like I was offended it was there. Plus, you can buy beer from outside bar/vendor places and walk around on the MP side too. We did it in May. I don't here people arguing that this makes the Market Place side not "family-friendly"

As for the hot-air balloon thing. I thought that was going to be on the MP side along with the bigger stage thing. Is the balloon so bad? Do the people in Paris just hate it?? Again, I understand people are upset about the clubs closing...but what's the big deal about the T-Rex place (which will be just like every other outsourced restaurant in DTD) and the balloon ride?

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but it's not so much that I object to the places themselves. It's that Disney is removing unique entertainment and replacing it with a themed restaurant that you can find elsewhere. If they were keeping the clubs and adding places like T-Rex, you wouldn't hear a word of complaint from me. I would probably even try it once. The fact that Disney is removing actual entertainment options and putting in restaurants instead is the problem.

As for the "family friendly" thing. . . well, my problem with it is that they aren't closing the clubs to make the area more family friendly. They are just saying they are because that seems to get a good response from some guests. The truth is that they just want to lease out the space and get money from being a landlord without actually running things themselves. People keep mentioning the cigar bar, Harley shop, and other bars because those things are no more family friendly than the Clubs and yet they aren't closing. In fact, I would think the outdoor bars are less family friendly than the bars that are inside, because you can choose to avoid going in to the bars if you don't want your kids exposed to that sort of thing but it's harder to avoid the ones outside. They can't have it both ways. If they are closing the clubs because they aren't family friendly then everything else that isn't family friendly should also close. If a cigar bar is appropriate for the new DTD then the Adventurers Club certainly is!

If they were closing the clubs to replace them with comparable offerings it would be different. If they were replacing the Adventurers Club with a futuristic space themed interactive comedy experience I would be sad, but I would understand it somewhat. If they were bringing in an outsourced "Evening at the Improv" type comedy club to replace Comedy Warehouse I would think it was a shame but again it would make some sense. Getting rid of the unique entertainment and bringing in a themed restaurant doesn't make sense, whatever the restaurant might be. It might be an entertaining place to eat, but it's not an actual entertainment offering.

Oh, and the balloon. Well, again, it's not the balloon itself, though I have heard from people that are more familiar with that type of balloon that it's likely to be grounded quite often due to storms and winds. Still, it could be a nice addition to DTD as another option for something to do. Except it isn't an addition - it's being touted as a replacement for the Clubs that are closing.

Imagine if your family loved Chuck-E-Cheese and your local mall closed it but replaced it with a Barnes and Noble while telling you how exciting that was and how happy you should be. Maybe you have nothing against Barnes and Noble, maybe you'd even like it if your mall got one, but not instead of Chuck-E-Cheese. It's not a good substitute! Now imagine that it isn't just a matter of driving a little further to another Chuck-E-Cheese, but that your local one was the only one. Would you really be satisfied to lose that just because they gave you a new book store to replace it?

[nickspace]

I have a guess!!! I think that Disney is going to build a Broadway style theater district complete with the big Disney productions. Lets face it the Disney shows are top sellers and putting them in Disney World would make it very easy to see a big show while on vacation.

What so you think? Agree or Disagree?

Does anyone know how to start a poll where we can list all the different guesses. If you do drop me a PM and go for it!

Take Care!
Nick
:dumbo: :tigger: :mickeyjum :goofy: :simba:

[NMW]

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but it's not so much that I object to the places themselves. It's that Disney is removing unique entertainment and replacing it with a themed restaurant that you can find elsewhere. If they were keeping the clubs and adding places like T-Rex, you wouldn't hear a word of complaint from me. I would probably even try it once. The fact that Disney is removing actual entertainment options and puttung in restaurants instead is the problem.

As for the "family friendly" thing. . . well, my problem with it is that they aren't closing the clubs to make the area more family friendly. They are just saying they are because that seems to get a good response from some guests. The truth is that they just want to lease out the space and get money from being a landlord without actually running things themselves. People keep mentioning the cigar bar, Harley shop, and other bars because those things are no more family friendly than the Clubs and yet they aren't closing. In fact, I would think the outdoor bars are less family friendly than the bars that are inside, because you can choose to avoid going in to the bars if you don't want your kids exposed to that sort of thing but it's harder to avoid the ones outside. They can't have it both ways. If they are closing the clubs because they aren't family friendly then everything else that isn't family friendly should also close. If a cigar bar is appropriate for the new DTD then the Adventurers Club certainly is!

If they were closing the clubs to replace them with comparable offerings it would be different. If they were replacing the Adventurers Club with a futuristic space themed interactive comedy experience I would be sad, but I would understand it somewhat. If they were bringing in an outsourced "Evening at the Improv" type comedy club to replace Comedy Warehouse I would think it was a shame but again it would make some sense. Getting rid of the unique entertainment and bringing in a themed restaurant doesn't make sense, whatever the restaurant might be. It might be an entertaining place to eat, but it's not an actual entertainment offering.

Oh, and the balloon. Well, again, it's not the balloon itself, though I have heard from people that are more familiar with that type of balloon that it's likely to be grounded quite often due to storms and winds. Still, it could be a nice addition to DTD as another option for something to do. Except it isn't an addition - it's being touted as a replacement for the Clubs that are closing.

Imagine if your family loved Chuck-E-Cheese and your local mall closed it but replaced it with a Barnes and Noble while telling you how exciting that was and how happy you should be. Maybe you have nothing against Barnes and Noble, maybe you'd even like it if your mall got one, but not instead of Chuck-E-Cheese. It's not a good substitute! Now imagine that it isn't just a matter of driving a little further to another Chuck-E-Cheese, but that your local one was the only one. Would you really be satisfied to lose that just because they gave you a new book store to replace it?


I completely understand your point of view. Thanks for taking the time to post it. To me it just didn't make sense that posters kept talking about T-Rex being outsourced, when it seems like ALL the restaurants at DTD are in fact, outsourced. I get it now. :)

[patsal]

I'd have to say the T-shirt at the Harley store that said "I (Heart shape) H**D" isn't exactly family friendly.

[NMW]

Oh, and the balloon. Well, again, it's not the balloon itself, though I have heard from people that are more familiar with that type of balloon that it's likely to be grounded quite often due to storms and winds. Still, it could be a nice addition to DTD as another option for something to do. Except it isn't an addition - it's being touted as a replacement for the Clubs that are closing.



The Philadelphia Zoo has a balloon like that. You can pay to go up in it and I believe it's included in some zoo family memberships. It's huge when it's on the ground and kind of neat to look at, but certainly not a replacement for anything. I'm sure Disney's will look cool when it's lit up at night and we'll probably try it. I took the balloon addition to be something like when they added the Hat/pin store in DHS-something big to look up at, especially at night. I thought they wanted a central icon kind of thing.

[doconeill]

I agree with Scurvy. If they were at least keeping the uniqueness of something like the Adventurers Club, even if they changed the overall theme, it would still be a unique experience worth going to at DTD. T-Rex really isn't unique - there may only be one other one right now, but it looks to me to be nothing more than an altered Rainforest Cafe - and we've got TWO of those in the area already, and plenty of others around the country.

Which, by the way, the one at DTD may still have 2 hour waits, but our local one which opened to those types of waits is a walk-in now.

As for the balloon...if they were adding that in general, it wouldn't be a big issue. Its a way to get more traffic over to Westside. But it seems like Disney thinks people will walk up to a club and go, "Awww, they closed the Club...why would they do tha-...oooooh, look, a balloon! Let's go see!" and forget all about the clubs.

[TDC Nala]

I really don't know why people here are picking on this restaurant so much.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have kids. And without kids I'm not going any further than walking past the front door of this place. It's what so many people on the boards have always told me WDW was about - it's "for the kids." I've been trying to refute that for years but now I think WDW is in agreement. I can't imagine adults without children having a whole lot of interest in T-Rex.

Is it going to have a bar? I can't even find that out. RFC has a bar.

I find it interesting that WDW is removing the one spot they had I could go at WDW, at night, as an adult, on my own if necessary, and be consistently entertained, and replacing it with family restaurants. Maybe all the "it's for the kids" people were correct, or at least they're correct now.

[zulemara]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have kids. And without kids I'm not going any further than walking past the front door of this place. It's what so many people on the boards have always told me WDW was about - it's "for the kids." I've been trying to refute that for years but now I think WDW is in agreement. I can't imagine adults without children having a whole lot of interest in T-Rex.

Is it going to have a bar? I can't even find that out. RFC has a bar.

I find it interesting that WDW is removing the one spot they had I could go at WDW, at night, as an adult, on my own if necessary, and be consistently entertained, and replacing it with family restaurants. Maybe all the "it's for the kids" people were correct, or at least they're correct now.

QFT

[NMW]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have kids. And without kids I'm not going any further than walking past the front door of this place. It's what so many people on the boards have always told me WDW was about - it's "for the kids." I've been trying to refute that for years but now I think WDW is in agreement. I can't imagine adults without children having a whole lot of interest in T-Rex.

Is it going to have a bar? I can't even find that out. RFC has a bar.

I find it interesting that WDW is removing the one spot they had I could go at WDW, at night, as an adult, on my own if necessary, and be consistently entertained, and replacing it with family restaurants. Maybe all the "it's for the kids" people were correct, or at least they're correct now.

I can understand the dino theme being geered towards families with kids. I know my husband and I would not choose to dine there without our kids.

For instance, we are going to Las Vegas this winter (without kids:woohoo: ) and I don't even want to choose a HOTEL that is geered towards families. I was truely surprised so many of them advertise for families-not just Circus Circus either! However, when we do our yearly Disney trips, they are true "family vacations." We don't use in-room babysitting, child care centers, etc. We have our kids with us at all times. Really all of our close friends that vacation in Disney, except one couple without kids, do "family vacations" just like ours. Now, most of our friends also take an adults-only vacation too, like Las Vegas or a cruise. We have not done that in the past due to a distinct lack of babysitters. My mom works, my in-laws retired to the beach in NC, my brothers and sister-in laws work and do not have kids. Shockingly most of our friends are not jumping up and down saying "I'll watch your 3 kids, just tell me when!" :rotfl: You really need a family member for that!

We have honestly considered going to Disney without the kids for a few days (DH is more onboard with it than I am), but decided that seeing kids everywhere would just remind us of our own kids and the things we have done with them on past trips. We really LOVE WDW, but I have never not seen kids at every turn. We have done 9 PM ADR's and there are kids in the restaurants, even signatures. Now, I know what your thinking, that MY kids were there too, and you'd be right. That's my point. I feel comfortable bringing my kids to dinner anywhere in WDW, with the exception of V&A, and I bet a lot of other people do too.

I feel bad for the adults without kids crowd that there are not more things geered just towards them, and that's why we are going to Vegas. :goodvibes

[TDC Nala]

But that is the point. There WERE PLENTY of things that were popular with adults without kids. Disney is removing them and, where they're actually bothering to replace them, replacing them with MORE things geared toward families with kids. So I'm not buying the "You were traveling to a family destination, what's your problem." When I started coming to WDW the signature restaurants weren't full of families with little children - now they are. That didn't bother me. The Party for the Senses didn't have families with little kids camping out on the floor near the restrooms - now it does. That only bothered me a bit - if parents want to spend $135 on dinner for little children, that's up to them. Removing the entertainment does bother me. Believe me I would not have spent 8 years going to WDW at least once a month if there wasn't anything there for me. So the "maybe you should have been going someplace else all along" isn't making much of an impression.

However, I'll go with "Maybe you should start going someplace else now."

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but it's not so much that I object to the places themselves. It's that Disney is removing unique entertainment and replacing it with a themed restaurant that you can find elsewhere.

As for the "family friendly" thing. . . well, my problem with it is that they aren't closing the clubs to make the area more family friendly. They are just saying they are because that seems to get a good response from some guests.

If they were closing the clubs to replace them with comparable offerings it would be different.

EXCELLENT POST SCURVY!!

BobK/Orlando

[Jason71]

I can't imagine adults without children having a whole lot of interest in T-Rex.

Is it going to have a bar? I can't even find that out. RFC has a bar.

.

FWIW, yes, it will have a "shark/sealife"-themed bar, with a giant octopus on the ceiling. Sounds vaguely cool (if also highly derivative of a similar bar at Sea World), but not sure you'd want to spend a whole night, let alone several nights in a row, there.

[TDC Nala]

FWIW, yes, it will have a "shark/sealife"-themed bar, with a giant octopus on the ceiling. Sounds vaguely cool (if also highly derivative of a similar bar at Sea World), but not sure you'd want to spend a whole night, let alone several nights in a row, there.

Will the octopus sing, dance, or tell jokes?

[KYMickey]

I have a guess!!! I think that Disney is going to build a Broadway style theater district complete with the big Disney productions. Lets face it the Disney shows are top sellers and putting them in Disney World would make it very easy to see a big show while on vacation.

What so you think? Agree or Disagree?

Does anyone know how to start a poll where we can list all the different guesses. If you do drop me a PM and go for it!

Take Care!
Nick
That ain't gonna happen! Disney would have to spend money to make that happen. They want somebody else to spend the money and hand the profits over to Disney.

[Jason71]

Will the octopus sing, dance, or tell jokes?

I got the impression they're going for a more "realistic" vibe, so probably not. ;) Then again, they have a "Build-a-cuddly-T Rexx" area, too, so maybe not that realistic.

[TDC Nala]

I got the impression they're going for a more "realistic" vibe, so probably not. ;)

Oh please! Couldn't it sing a couple of songs about fishing?

[Scurvy]

Oh please! Couldn't it sing a couple of songs about fishing?

"Fishing, fishing, that's the life for me! I get high on ichthyology. . ."

That would be too entertaining. They don't want to give people a reason to linger - you have to keep turning over those tables (or barstools) if you want to make a profit, after all.

[PaulaSB12]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have kids. And without kids I'm not going any further than walking past the front door of this place. It's what so many people on the boards have always told me WDW was about - it's "for the kids." I've been trying to refute that for years but now I think WDW is in agreement. I can't imagine adults without children having a whole lot of interest in T-Rex.

Is it going to have a bar? I can't even find that out. RFC has a bar.

I find it interesting that WDW is removing the one spot they had I could go at WDW, at night, as an adult, on my own if necessary, and be consistently entertained, and replacing it with family restaurants. Maybe all the "it's for the kids" people were correct, or at least they're correct now.

Speak for yourself on that one I am looking forward to going to T-Rex, they have a Rainforest cafe in London but nothing like that near me and it looks cool, even if I don't have kids. Watch out I'll be there next september.

[Bella the Ball 360]

Speak for yourself on that one I am looking forward to going to T-Rex, they have a Rainforest cafe in London but nothing like that near me and it looks cool, even if I don't have kids. Watch out I'll be there next september.

While I do not live in London, I agree.

[KYMickey]

Speak for yourself on that one I am looking forward to going to T-Rex, they have a Rainforest cafe in London but nothing like that near me and it looks cool, even if I don't have kids. Watch out I'll be there next september.

If it's anything like Rainforest Cafe I bet you won't stay long! My wife and I thought that it would be neat for us but our opinion changed rapidly. Yes, it's decorated neat and neat to look at. Other than that, it's very noisy, the food is only OK but expensive for what it is and the servers are rude. Add to this the unsupervised kids running around and it's not a pleasant dining experience. Maybe T-Rex will be different but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

PI bartenders have been given their list of available bartender and server positions around Disney World. They have to submit their selections by this coming Tuesday. Unfortunately there are not a lot of prime bartender positions on the list; in many cases a restaurant server position may be more lucrative than continuing to bartend. The good news is that they can stay employed with Disney and keep their seniority.

BobK/Orlando

[rpmdfw]

PI bartenders have been given their list of available bartender and server positions around Disney World. They have to submit their selections by this coming Tuesday. Unfortunately there are not a lot of prime bartender positions on the list; in many cases a restaurant server position may be more lucrative than continuing to bartend. The good news is that they can stay employed with Disney and keep their seniority.

BobK/Orlando


Wow. Good to know that they're treating the bar staff better than the performers.

The amazingly talented casts of the Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse were given . . . the chance to audition for something else. No guarantees of work. No preferential casting consideration. Nada. And many of them have been with Disney for decades. Many of them are still looking for work.

[Jason71]

Speak for yourself on that one I am looking forward to going to T-Rex, they have a Rainforest cafe in London but nothing like that near me and it looks cool, even if I don't have kids. Watch out I'll be there next september.

I will say I like the RFC bar outside AK as a nice place to cool off during the day. But otherwise, RFC is nothing special. The animatronics are sub-Disney standards--don't know if they have "Chuck E. Cheeses" in your neck of the world, but they're common here in the States, and about the same quality. The food is the same as Chillis/Bennigans, only overpriced. And overall the experience is rushed and loud--they pack in too many kids into too small a place.

Trust me, as an adult you'd have a much better dining experience at House of Blues or Raglan Road.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Wow. Good to know that they're treating the bar staff better than the performers.

I forgot to mention that the positions will be assigned in seniority order. Those near the top will get to select the better positions from a list that doesn't have many better positions.

The amazingly talented casts of the Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse were given . . . the chance to audition for something else. No guarantees of work. No preferential casting consideration.


I guess with bartending positions there are specific openings around the World that need to be filled or anticipated to be needed whereas the need for comedians is far more limited.

BobK/Orlando

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Supposedly higher-up managers at Disney World saw a presentation a few weeks ago about what's coming to the new Pleasure Island. Supposedly they left the meeting very impressed. Supposedly they're sworn to secrecy. Yet other than the officially announced Hanes t-shirt store, there has been nothing leaked. Come on! Disboard members have more sources than Woodward & Bernstein. Yet I've seen nothing. There has to be some information floating around out there. What's coming to PI that's going to make all the hoopla worthwhile? I'm hoping for hippo feedings and zip lines!

I started this thread to see if anyone knew anything about what is coming to the new "taken up a notch" PI. Appears that no one knows anything. This truly must be Disney's Best Kept Secret.

[rpmdfw]

This truly must be Disney's Best Kept Secret.

They're building a DVC kiosk there?!?!?!?!? :eek:

[paulh]

what are they building in the parking lot to west side?
To me it looks like a docking area for water taxis,but its in the middle of the carpark noware near to anything
Paulh

[Twilightlover]

It would be great if they made it into a Theater District especially because they have three huge productions they could show: The Lion King, Mary Poppins and The Little Mermaid.

I would love a Newsies play too!!

[Luv2Roam]

Considering there are refurb buildings which have sat empty for at least 1.5 years, I am not holding my breathe anything will be replacing anything soon. :confused3 It will be a dead zone. Nothing more than a pass through for a long while is my guess.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Considering there are refurb buildings which have sat empty for at least 1.5 years, I am not holding my breathe anything will be replacing anything soon.

My guess is that some shops will go right away into that building that was refurbished and has sat empty for around 2 years; it's ready and they've got to have some tenants lined up by now. And while there has been a lot of speculation, I'm thinking the South American restaurant/night club is also going into the same building but back behind on the lake. It too is ready for occupancy. RRBC would take a year to renovate.

Paulh....not sure where you're talking about.

BobK/Orlando

[PaulaSB12]

They're building a DVC kiosk there?!?!?!?!? :eek:

Considering how many there are I am waiting for them to turn up in the rest rooms, talk about a captive audience.

:lmao:

[zulemara]

in one of these PI threads way back, someone mentioned an Orlando business owner who was looking to build a new club close to Disney. I heard yesterday from my friend that the new club will be located on 192 and opens the night PI closes. It's apparently called Island of Pleasure. Can anyone else give any details? What kind of music, how far from Disney, any press release? I searched the Sentinel's website but couldn't find anything.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I'll see if I can find out anything about this venture; it's not anything that I've heard. Awhile back I posted that I had given a tour of PI to the guy who co-owns a large night club near Universal. He was in the process of opening a second club in the same area and my intent was to get him to play Mannequins type music on Saturday nights. He'd buy the revolving floor if it was for sale! I need to go visit him and see what's up with that. But I've heard no rumors of Islands of Pleasure in Kissimmee. Sounds like a multi-room strip club!

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

I'll see if I can find out anything about this venture; it's not anything that I've heard. Awhile back I posted that I had given a tour of PI to the guy who co-owns a large night club near Universal. He was in the process of opening a second club in the same area and my intent was to get him to play Mannequins type music on Saturday nights. He'd buy the revolving floor if it was for sale! I need to go visit him and see what's up with that. But I've heard no rumors of Islands of Pleasure in Kissimmee. Sounds like a multi-room strip club!

BobK/Orlando
aahh I thought it was you! I will go anywhere that has techno and a rotating dance floor, that's for sure!

multi-room strip club eh? Isn't that what pulse is for :lmao:

either way, I'll take it! If he needs a DJ for techno, I'll be down there starting in Jan!

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I heard yesterday from my friend that the new club will be located on 192 and opens the night PI closes. It's apparently called Island of Pleasure. Can anyone else give any details?

This is very interesting. Last night at 8TRAX I was asking one of the bartenders what job she is going to end up with and she told me about her new server position at a certain Disney restaurant. But then she mentioned that even though the money will be better, she'd trade that for the current position and hours that she currently has and how she's going to miss it. And I commented how I had read that all the PI buildings have plans for them except the 8TRAX/Mannequins building. She disagreed and said that she didn't know what the plans are but there are definitely plans for that space. But then she mentions that they're building a new PI down at the south end of Disney and that she knows the contractor involved. I then mention the Island of Pleasure name and asked if it would be down on US 192 in Kissimmee? She says they've been told that they have first crack at bartender jobs if they want to come back. But then I interjected that Disney wouldn't build something off WDW property and she said no, this IS on Disney property and it is Disney.

OK, so how would something like this get missed in among all the rumors out there? Is something really coming....is it Disney...is it on Disney property....and why wouldn't Disney just announce it to placate all the upset people? Stay tuned as I investigate this breaking story!

BobK/Orlando

[KYMickey]

OK, so how would something like this get missed in among all the rumors out there? Is something really coming....is it Disney...is it on Disney property....and why wouldn't Disney just announce it to placate all the upset people? Stay tuned as I investigate this breaking story!
BobK/Orlando
Disney hasn't announced it because it isn't true just like all the other rumors. Actually this one must not be a very hot rumor since it hasn't come up before!

[zulemara]

The area she is referring to is Flamingo Crossings I believe, which is just another outsourced area. It is possible they would put clubs in there, but I doubt it. The Islands of Pleasure thing is not supposed to be Disney and I didn't mean to interject that idea. It's completely separate.

[Luv2Roam]

Every so often I hear rumblings of non-Disney ventures taking over where PI left off, from Universal CW to 192. Hard to say what, if anything, will actually happen. There certainly is a market for it.
As mentioned by others, what is really left that is unique for Disney adults after dark? :confused3 (answer: nothing. So we go elsewhere, stay home or in the resort room I guess. :sad2: )
We wandered DTD yesterday waiting for the clubs to open. Nothing new or noteworthy in any of DTD. Although I was surprised at how few people were in WoD. Usually that place is packed. But not when we were walking through.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The area she is referring to is Flamingo Crossings I believe, which is just another outsourced area. It is possible they would put clubs in there, but I doubt it. The Islands of Pleasure thing is not supposed to be Disney and I didn't mean to interject that idea. It's completely separate.

No, I understood you. I was the one that told HER the name of the venture and that it would be non-Disney; SHE was the one that told me that Disney IS involved in a new night club venture elsewhere on property. She was not referring to Flamingo Crossings which of course is a completely different venture.

PI absolutely jammed last night; LONG LONG line at Comedy Warehouse and long line at The Adventurer's Club.

BobK/Orlando

[rpmdfw]

No, I understood you. I was the one that told HER the name of the venture and that it would be non-Disney; SHE was the one that told me that Disney IS involved in a new night club venture elsewhere on property. She was not referring to Flamingo Crossings which of course is a completely different venture.

PI absolutely jammed last night; LONG LONG line at Comedy Warehouse and long line at The Adventurer's Club.

BobK/Orlando

Adventurers Club hit it's capacity around 10:30pm last night. People had to leave before they'd let the people waiting in line into the club.

As of Friday, the'yve removed all the tables and chairs from the Library and replaced it with banquet chairs set theatre style. This increased the capacity of the library, but even so, they've begun projecting the Hoopla onto a sheet draped over the balcony railing so that those people who can't get into the show can still watch it.

If it's this crazy now, it's going to be INSANE over the next two weeks. :headache:

[Jason71]

An update on that much reviled design-your-own t-shirt shop that Orlando Attractions said would be part of the new PI. Turns out it's not going in anywhere near the Island. Instead, it will be a new building on the far end of the Marketplace, near Art of Disney and the Christmas Shop.

So T-Rexx, the balloon, the t-shirt shop...none of the things WDW mentioned with the closing of PI will actually replace it. It was all just a smokescreen.

[Not 100% on this, but apparently the new shop will replace something--the fountain splash zone. In other words, say good-bye to one of the few free, family-friendly spots left in DTD. Waiting for the Disney Defenders to come on and justify this move now.]

[rpmdfw]

So, it's kind of like Charlier Brown trick-or-treating isn't it?

"I got a candy bar, what did you get?"

"I got a rock"

I found it quite amusing that last night the Adventurers Club hit capacity before 9:30pm and then the managers stood there at the door looking at the line stretching all the way down to the Harley store and couldn't figure out why nobody was leaving the club so that they could let more people in.

Well, DUH! Nobody was leaving because this is why we come to Downtown Disney!

Yeah. What we really want is shopping and dining. Idiots.

This is going to go down in history as one of the worst business decision of all time. Possibly worse than "New Coke".

[AdventurerKat]

So the grand new plans for Pleasure Island are happening at the Marketplace.
:rolleyes:

[Scurvy]

This is going to go down in history as one of the worst business decision of all time. Possibly worse than "New Coke".

You know, there are some people who believe that New Coke was never intended to succeed. Instead, the Coca Cola company wanted to switch from cane sugar to corn syrup in the recipe but knew that people would notice, so they first switched to New Coke, which they knew people would dislike. So when they bowed to public pressure and gave the people what they wanted - Coke Classic - no one noticed that it didn't taste the same as real Coke had.

I have to wonder if Disney going to do something similar. Take all of PI away, and then later when they bring back a pale shadow of it elsewhere people will be happy about it instead of complaining about the changes.

Someone at guest services actually tried to tell me the other day that the only reason the Adventurers Club was crowded was because it was closing. I admitted that the heavier than usual crowds were probably due in part to the many Club fans who planned last minute trip to go back to the Club one last time. She didn't have response when I told her the heavy crowds were probably also due to the fact that the Adventurers Club is finally getting publicity for the first time in years. Even though many visitors lately are longtime fans, I've still met a surprising number of first time visitors there who never knew until recently that the Club wasn't just a themed bar.

[zulemara]

Yeah. What we really want is shopping and dining. Idiots.

This is going to go down in history as one of the worst business decision of all time. Possibly worse than "New Coke".

A-FRICKIN-MEN!

Btw how bout that tshirt you were making?
Year of shattered dreams
I went to PI and all I got was this lousy t-shirt(shop)

[rpmdfw]

A-FRICKIN-MEN!

Btw how bout that tshirt you were making?
Year of shattered dreams
I went to PI and all I got was this lousy t-shirt(shop)

Somebody on the AC yahoo group beat me to it and made a similar shirt. It didn't look good, so I decided to just say it a whole lot, and not wear it on clothing. :lmao:

[Maistre Gracey]

An update on that much reviled design-your-own t-shirt shop that Orlando Attractions said would be part of the new PI. Turns out it's not going in anywhere near the Island. Instead, it will be a new building on the far end of the Marketplace, near Art of Disney and the Christmas Shop.

So T-Rexx, the balloon, the t-shirt shop...none of the things WDW mentioned with the closing of PI will actually replace it. It was all just a smokescreen.

[Not 100% on this, but apparently the new shop will replace something--the fountain splash zone. In other words, say good-bye to one of the few free, family-friendly spots left in DTD. Waiting for the Disney Defenders to come on and justify this move now.]
This could be a good thing...

Although I was really, really excited for the t-shirt shop. :rolleyes:

MG

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

So with the t-shirt store now being placed in the Marketplace side, the only thing announced so far about PI itself is the Central/South American restaurant which in the evening is going to be a Central/South American nightclub. What else could they possibly stick on PI that is going to be new and exciting? There is a tremendouos amount of space on PI to fill up.

BobK/Orlando

[Luv2Roam]

Well, and to me that is not even new and exciting. I have heard it compared to at least three different type clubs/restaurants including the Samba Club, which really is not all that far from DTD. Maybe 15 minutes away.
So how would it be unique and different if it can be compared to various other clubs?
If I wanted the Samba Room, that's where I would go.

[Maistre Gracey]

Well, and to me that is not even new and exciting. I have heard it compared to at least three different type clubs/restaurants including the Sambo Club, which really is not all that far from DTD. Maybe 15 minutes away.
So how would it be unique and different if it can be compared to various other clubs?
If I wanted the Sambo Room, that's where I would go.
I'm in total shock that anyone would give that name to a club.

MG

[Luv2Roam]

I never even thought of that. Could be I misspelling and it's Sombo. :confused3 Maybe Somba. :confused3
SAMBA!! I will correct my post. Sorry! (Obvious I am not into dancing... )

[Luv2Roam]

Saturday night we were at AC at the 6 p.m. opening.
We stayed and then went to CR to watch the pyrotechnics display. Did not make it back to PI just after 10:30, and timed it perfect to get in CW.
Afterwards had no issues at all getting back into AC, where we stayed to the end.
Friends arrived at PI just less than a half hour ago and confirmed there is no handicap entrance on the lower level at CW. And the line to AC was incredibly long. (But consider the club had not yet opened, and was right before opening at 8:00.)
Should be an interesting night to see how the crowds are, even for mid week.

[zulemara]

I sent an email to just about every exec that could be involved in this decision. I know it does no good, but it makes me feel better.

Universal looks better every day....

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Mannequins on Thursday night was the most crowded I have EVER seen it. Around midnight the dance floor stopped revolving; don't know if it broke from the sheer weight of everyone on it or if they simply stopped it so that it wouldn't break. Entry is on the near side of the building and requires climbing the side stairs up to the second floor. Haven't seen that in 10 years. Re-entry is the same line. Capacity was reached around midnight and no one else could go in until people left.

Hip Kitty was looking good! Quite a few people standing around listening plus those in line for Mannequins got to listen during the wait.

PI closing getting media attention locally on the various newcasts.

2 nights to go. Such a shame!

BobK/Orlando

[JudithM]

I sent an email to just about every exec that could be involved in this decision. I know it does no good, but it makes me feel better.

I talked to many CMs over the last few nights of PI being open. A few CMs mentioned Disney management is waiting to read feedback from guests. The CMs said Disney management knows there is a lot online, but they want to see who will actually take the time to write a letter. Who knows?

[asianway]

In the largest twist of irony yet to date in this tale, as of this afternoon, there is now a merchandise cart set up outside in front of the Adventurers Club library stairs. I still cant believe my eyes....

[zulemara]

I talked to many CMs over the last few nights of PI being open. A few CMs mentioned Disney management is waiting to read feedback from guests. The CMs said Disney management knows there is a lot online, but they want to see who will actually take the time to write a letter. Who knows?

I still plan on sending out a snail mail letter to everyone I possibly can. I just didn't get time to do it(pathetic, I know)

I didn't know about the merchandise cart, but I know they slopped paint on 8-trax and took down the illuminated signs outside mannequins by Sunday afternoon. They also have purchased the black things to put in the windows and those are expensive. There isn't going to be any announcement on the future of the place until January. Why let it be empty for all that time:confused3 That's the question.

There was a PI CM "party" to "celebrate" PI and Kevin Lansberry(the exec largely responsible for the decision) was there. He was also on the island the last night. They are extremely tight lipped about exactly what will be replacing it. Who knows, maybe it's all a huge marketing/publicity stunt. Maybe they'll outsource it all and reopen it as PI V2.0 Wishful thinking, but what else could they possibly be doing that's so "new and exciting"

[asianway]

They removed the light boxes in front of Mannequins as well as the awning, but not the frame for the awning. Very bad show, it looks like looters went through.

[Jason71]

In the largest twist of irony yet to date in this tale, as of this afternoon, there is now a merchandise cart set up outside in front of the Adventurers Club library stairs. I still cant believe my eyes....

Curiosity gets the best of me...what type of merchandise?

[jfinke]

Curiosity gets the best of me...what type of merchandise?

Probably selling AC cups or tshirts. :confused:

[doconeill]

Curiosity gets the best of me...what type of merchandise?

I would guess clearance-errrr, "collectors items" :)

If it is still there this weekend, I'm picking up some stuff...

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Heard a rumor from a different source today that a replacement for Pleasure Island is definitely coming next year and it will be way bigger than what was left behind. It's been purposely not announced in order to maximize the revenue generated from everyone coming to the closing of the original PI.

Like one rumor after another on here, can't say how valid it will turn out. But wouldn't it be cool if CM's advising patrons to write more letters was a ploy? Then suddenly Mickey announces that "guest feedback" tells us there is a need for evening entertainment for adults and therefore we're going to open a new PI called Island of Pleasure. And it will open right after the AC characters return from their 1-yr yacht cruise. Hmmm. Bits and pieces could fit here.

I wish, I wish, I wish!

BobK/Orlando

[Luv2Roam]

I have heard an Island of Pleasure rumor, and thought it had even been mentioned on a post on this board. :confused3
What I heard was it would be near WDW, but not Disney, who would have no ties to it. :confused3
I just took it for what's worth until something concrete came up. Much of the rumors I have heard turned out to be false or what I consider wishful thinking

[jfinke]

I wish, I wish, I wish!

BobK/Orlando

When you wish upon a star... :wizard:

[zulemara]

Heard a rumor from a different source today that a replacement for Pleasure Island is definitely coming next year and it will be way bigger than what was left behind. It's been purposely not announced in order to maximize the revenue generated from everyone coming to the closing of the original PI.

Like one rumor after another on here, can't say how valid it will turn out. But wouldn't it be cool if CM's advising patrons to write more letters was a ploy? Then suddenly Mickey announces that "guest feedback" tells us there is a need for evening entertainment for adults and therefore we're going to open a new PI called Island of Pleasure. And it will open right after the AC characters return from their 1-yr yacht cruise. Hmmm. Bits and pieces could fit here.

I wish, I wish, I wish!

BobK/Orlando

This is...honestly...the ONLY thing that seems to make sense to the way they did things. They closed all the clubs at once when they could have phased things out, they haven't announced what is actually going in the clubs, and the AC storyline might be offering a clue. The only thing that doesn't make sense is all the staff, specifically entertainers, that they are letting go. Of course they are probably confident they can either re-hire them or simply find new people. It could be a HUGE marketing stunt to bring PI back in another form.

As far as the "off property" idea, that stems from flamingo crossings. I spoke to someone who knows one of the planning people for flamingo crossings and he said no night time entertainment is going there.

only time will tell. I sure hope they make this wrong a right. It is often true that Disney doesn't make a decision without calculating every aspect. Hopefully they are looking to give PI a rebirth and make it rise to the top of night time entertainment.

[Scurvy]

I have a theory. I think that Disney killed PI to try to do damage control because of the bad reputation the area had gotten. I think the reputation was completely unwarranted and there wasn't much they could do to combat it, so they killed it all off to make a clean new start.

I firmly believe that the concept of the Adventurers Club will be back someday, and I find it hard to believe they would not also bring back at least one dance club.

As for all the people that were let go - I know that most (though not all) of the "fan favorites" at the Adventurers Club have been given other positions within Disney World. So were most of the bartenders and servers, apparently. Maybe this is in part to keep them on hand for the time when they choose to reopen the Adventurers Club and other nighttime entertainment.

And maybe I am in denial, but I am taking the "Adventuring for a year" thing as a reason to hope that the Adventurers Club will return at some point. It's too popular a concept to be abandoned completely!

[Luv2Roam]

I know not all the players have found other positions. And one even told me he was moving out of state.
I don't get the bad reputation. I think many assume alcohol = bad behavior. If that is the case, watch out Epcot! :confused3
If there has been a place of concern in DTD IMO it is the AMC theatre. Sady, it seems like movie theatres equate to unwanted issues.
If there were PI issues, I think they arose from allowing anyone and everyone on PI at any time. At least recent we saw minors without an adult were turned away.
This is something they should have considered when opening it up for all.
Week nights esp PI was slow. Even in Saturday we use to attend the first CW show where the place was maybe 1/3 full. I can see if attendance was going down. But you would have thought they would have considered WHY was it down?
I recall when the west side stage was removed. Anyone else remember the news was there would be bands playing on the lower level behind CW in an open stadium like seating? And notice that area has only been used as a passage for CMs to walk from back stage to on stage.
PI suffered from:
* allowing anyone in the clubs w/o setting an age limit.
* dismantling the stage with no replacement
* no food sales, either in or out of the clubs
* empty store fronts, and not just for awhile -- for several months and empty even to this day.
* no PI or club souvenirs to buy
* no advertisement of any club

And that's what I think of just of the top of my head. :confused3 These are so blantant you can't come up with anything but intentional doom. It was made a sitting duck.

[Maistre Gracey]

I have a theory. I think that Disney killed PI to try to do damage control because of the bad reputation the area had gotten. I think the reputation was completely unwarranted and there wasn't much they could do to combat it, so they killed it all off to make a clean new start.

I firmly believe that the concept of the Adventurers Club will be back someday, and I find it hard to believe they would not also bring back at least one dance club.

As for all the people that were let go - I know that most (though not all) of the "fan favorites" at the Adventurers Club have been given other positions within Disney World. So were most of the bartenders and servers, apparently. Maybe this is in part to keep them on hand for the time when they choose to reopen the Adventurers Club and other nighttime entertainment.

And maybe I am in denial, but I am taking the "Adventuring for a year" thing as a reason to hope that the Adventurers Club will return at some point. It's too popular a concept to be abandoned completely!
I'm buying your theory 100%..
I just hope we're right!!

MG

[asianway]

The cart had generic WDW Tshirts, thermal mugs and Mickey plush.

It must be the new shopping option they were talking about

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Notice when I posted my new rumor above earlier today, I underlined the word "definitely".

But if this was really definitely, could they build something like a PI and supposedly bigger than a PI......in a year?

Could they keep something like that a secret? Keep in mind that DVC timeshares at Contemporary were hardly Disney's best kept secret! The cat was out of the bag on that due to county permits. A large project couldn't be hidden.

Consider this though. The prior mention of this rumor referred to Osceola County. Does anyone know if the county has a later closing time than Orange? Certainly Disney as it's own cities could have closed bars whenever they wanted. But the reality in Orange County is that liquor sales end at 2am.....everywhere. The last holdout was Eatonville and there was huge pressure to get the license revoked of the hold out club that felt they were grandfathered in. Putting something like this over the border in Osceola might be a way to politically allow a later closing time if Osceola allows such a thing.....and I don't know because I've never hung out down there.

BobK/Orlando

[doconeill]

Notice when I posted my new rumor above earlier today, I underlined the word "definitely".

But if this was really definitely, could they build something like a PI and supposedly bigger than a PI......in a year?

Could they keep something like that a secret? Keep in mind that DVC timeshares at Contemporary were hardly Disney's best kept secret! The cat was out of the bag on that due to county permits. A large project couldn't be hidden.

Hmm....the only way I think they could do it in a year is if they already started - and that would mean Flamingo Crossings (or whatever the Western Way development is called - I hate that name). And supposedly some CMs have been calling it "another Downtown Disney".

Except AFAIK FC is 100% outsourced, if they are even keeping the property as part of Disney.

[Jason71]

Has WDW even built (not refurbed, built) a new table-service restaurant in a decade? Raglan, Fuego, the handwriting is on the wall. WDW wants to collect rent, not run businesses. The new PI will be third party restaurants, maybe a third party club (or a hybrid like Dave & Busters). If anything ends up replacing Atlantic Dance, it will be run by a third party. I just don't see them suddenly deciding to build a whole new entertainment complex--or even just a new "Adventurers Club Restaurant."

Eventually, of course, WDW will realize their 1 in 6 guests who travel without kids are going off-property. And then they will have to come up with a new plan to counteract whatever the off-property threat is (most likely CityWalk). But I'm afraid that is years off.

BTW, re: "Flamingo Crossings." Everything released about it indicates (i) strictly third party motels/stores/restaurants (common chains at that) and (ii) while legally on WDW property, to the casual observer it will appear to be outside the WDW gates.

[Luv2Roam]

Is FC what is in progress at 429 and Western Way?
That is outside the WDW gate. And that is a looooong way off, if that is the upcoming FC. They have broke ground, probably laying sewer and water lines, and that is about it.
IF (and that is a BIG IF) Disney would decide to bring back any form of AC, our diehard antics will only add fuel to ideas that we are crazy enough to pay any kind of $ to revive AC. My guess they would not get that one reason for the AC popularity was a great evening of entertainment for under $25 in cover charge, even if buying a one night pass, plus beverages.
I could just see the wheels in someone's head turning and creating what they would consider a Grand Hoopla, but at grand price. AC ala HDDR.
Just bring back the club, sell AC THEMED merchandise and offer at least hors d'oeuvre type snacks. Even at over inflated prices we would pay it. :rolleyes1 :sad2:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Flamingo Crossings is the indeed the project over on Western Way just beyond TOLL 429 (Western Beltway). All the press articles about it say it's strictly going to be (relatively) inexpensive motels, restaurants and gift shops. All of it is going to be outsourced. It's on Disney land but the land was recently removed from the Reedy Creek Improvement District. There are no plans for nightclubs out there to my knowledge and it would be a horrible location IMO because it's as far away from Orlando as you can get and still be on Disney property. No large scale night club operation can survive without locals supporting it.

Hmm....the only way I think they could do it in a year is if they already started - and that would mean Flamingo Crossings (or whatever the Western Way development is called - I hate that name). And supposedly some CMs have been calling it "another Downtown Disney".

Zulemara mentioned the rumor of a new PI first, referring to it as something along US 192 and as outsourced. The second person who had mentioned the rumor referred to it to me as something at the south end of Disney property but Disney-operated. The third person who mentioned this to me yesterday as "definitely" coming also referred to something towards the south end of Disney. So I just hope everyone is talking about a new PI, not just Flamingo Crossings which is at the south end (as well as west end) of Disney property, one exit north of US 192.

BobK/Orlando

[doconeill]

It's on Disney land but the land was recently removed from the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

When they de-annex the land, doesn't that imply that they are selling it, and thus no-longer Disney land? I thought that was the case with the Four Seasons...

[LoriS]

In the largest twist of irony yet to date in this tale, as of this afternoon, there is now a merchandise cart set up outside in front of the Adventurers Club library stairs. I still cant believe my eyes....
Tonight they even had a guy playing reggae on the steps of Adventurers Club just next to the sphinx. :mad: It was really heartbreaking.

[_Taco_]

When they de-annex the land, doesn't that imply that they are selling it, and thus no-longer Disney land? I thought that was the case with the Four Seasons...

No. Read the wiki about RCID.

History is basically (high level and highly summarized):
-Disney and State folks agree to sell land to Disney
-Disney asks Orange County FD about the 190ft castle made of fire-resistant fiberglass, put front gate in Orange so 1% sales tax goes to the county
-Orange County FD laughs, not approving that (fiberglass bad rep for bursting into flames
-Disney asks Osceola County FD about the 190ft castle, move front gate to Osceola
-Osceola County FD laughs
-Disney goes to state, granted an Improvement District
-Disney now gets to build virtually anything they want only answering to themselves and the state
-Disney responsible for own fire department (RCFD)
-Disney responsible for own police*
-Disney decided to go with Security, rather than a police force (police have to file paperwork that gets disclosed and appears on the cover of the Sentinel). Instead they pay the respective County's police for the service, and call them when required.

Removing that land from the District but keeping them on property let's them collect rent $$$, but removes the obligation to do things such as inspect buildings, provide fire/rescue services, and do other things usually handled by the county.

[MJ6987]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but in Len Testa's normally reliable news section of his site it says:

"Disney has said they will develop the space in the future - like the Wonders of Life pavilion..."

So, this suggests that nothing will be built to replace Pleasure Island, at least not for the forseeable future, but it is there to be developed in the future.

[Jason71]

Update on the T-shirt shop...I was slightly off on location. It's going IN the old scrapbooking/book store, next to Art of Disney. The shop is already closed, with signs promising the make-your-own t-shirt shop in "Fall 2008." Still about as far away from PI as you can get and still be in DTD.

Last night DTD was empty. Literally walked up to the register at Earl of Sandwich, can't remember ever doing that. Walkways had only a smattering of people. Sure it's the off-season, but I also know a lot of people, even locals, confuse PI/DTD. Wondering if this will quickly blow up in management's face.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Wondering if this will quickly blow up in management's face.

If the plan all along was to build a new, better, larger PI somewhere else on property, then all this doesn't matter. I hope whatever comes to the old PI area is fun and successful.

But if there is no plan for a new PI then clearly this already has blown up in management's face!

BobK/Orlando

[daber]

If the plan all along was to build a new, better, larger PI somewhere else on property, then all this doesn't matter. I hope whatever comes to the old PI area is fun and successful.

But if there is no plan for a new PI then clearly this already has blown up in management's face!

BobK/Orlando

I think it would have made sense to build a new PI before closing the old one, so the traffic could have migrated. Therefore, since they have migrated, to CityWalk, I doubt there was a PI in the works.....unless they are now scrambling trying to recover what they have lost.

There was a time Disney looked around the area and saw where money was being taken off property and then build something to counter act it. PI was the response to Church Street Station area, Fantasia Gardens in reaction to everyone playing miniture golf on I drive, Typhoon Lagoon to counter Wet and Wild, etc.
So I guess the current strategy is after we put the little guy out of business and then deep six the project. (So look for the bull dozers next to plow under Fantasia Gardens). But the people still want these forms of entertainment.....hence the exodus to City Walk.

[Maistre Gracey]

Now I'm really confused..
I thought they WERE rebuilding PI, albeit not with the same clubs. I thought they were adding shops and restaurants to make it "family friendly".
I was holding out hope for a new surprise AC.

The new area being built.. I also thought that was off property, and geared more for moderate budgets.
I never tied that in with a replacement for PI.

Where am I going wrong here?

MG

[Another Voice]

Where am I going wrong here?
You're assuming Disney is going to operate like Disney of the recent past.

Disney would more than love to have dance clubs, night clubs, whatever clubs - just as long as someone else builds them, runs thems and pays the rent on time.

Disney itself would rather not take on the captial costs or operating expenses of actually running restaurants, clubs and shops. That's for all those little and guible business fops in Orlando to worry about.

Instead, Disney is trying to come up with ways to resell you the parks. To make you buy a second ticket to something that's already built and paid for. Why do you think Mickey throws so many parties in the Magic Kingdom? Why do you think Disney is talking about putting in a $300 a plate buffet so you can see Animal Kingdom after dark? Can anyone else see how 'Fantasimic!' can be changed to a hard ticket event too?

It's all the money game. Disney gets free money when people pay them rent. They get even lots more money from mega-priced hard ticket events running the parks at half capacity.

[Horace Horsecollar]

I thought they WERE rebuilding PI, albeit not with the same clubs. I thought they were adding shops and restaurants to make it "family friendly".
I was holding out hope for a new surprise AC.
What's now Pleasure Island will simply be the center section of Downtown Disney, without the Pleasure Island name or its mission as a nightclub complex.

To the degree that any of the new tenants offer entertainment or dancing, the former Pleasure Island may have a nightclub element, just as the current West Side has the House of Blues.

The new area being built.. I also thought that was off property, and geared more for moderate budgets.
I never tied that in with a replacement for PI.
Flaming Crossings is on Disney property, but all indications are that it won't be Disney-branded. To guests, it will seem to be off-property. The reports so far suggest lower-end chain hotels, timeshares, and the retail chains that you would find off-property. In other words, Flamingo Crossings is much more likely to have a Comfort Inn and a Walgreen's (and dozens other chains) than a new Adventurer's Club and a new Comedy Warehouse.

[Maistre Gracey]

I see. I guess I put too much stock in what I was reading here earlier.. I thought the Disney execs had big plans for the area.

So apparently the clubs will just wither away until a tenant comes along? Are there any plans or direction from Disney on what the area will become in a year or two?

Thanx.. :smokin:

MG

[Luv2Roam]

Store fronts were remodeled and left empty for how long now? At least a year and half. I would have thought HAD there been anyone wanting to pay the rent, the empty stores would have been occupied months ago. There's been plenty of time for another company to come in and do as they wish. Instead the buildings have been left empty.
With today's economy, why would anyone think any business will go into them now? Too many are going out of business or closing stores as is.
As mentioned, so far anything announced is off PI.
I suspect a more high end Latin themed dinner and dance place MAY open. (Similar to chains currently available and not far from DTD.) But if anything innovative opens, I will indeed be very surprised.

"So apparently the clubs will just wither away until a tenant comes along?"

They won't wither away. They are gone. Kaput.

[Maistre Gracey]

"So apparently the clubs will just wither away until a tenant comes along?"

They won't wither away. They are gone. Kaput.
Right.. I should have said "the buildings that housed the clubs".

MG

[Luv2Roam]

Hard to say if they will salvage the buildings in part or just raze them. One manager commented the buildings no longer matched their theme. (Assuming that meant the upcoming shopping/dining family experence theme.)

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The Central/South American restaurant is the ONLY thing announced so far for PI and it will have a night club element to it. My educated guess is that it's going into the rear of the building that was renovated 2 years ago and has sat empty ever since. That will leave 3-4 store fronts facing the sidewalk to house stores or something else. I think we'll see movement on the restaurant rather quickly now. Trying to adapt any of the other buildings for other uses is a HUGE and expensive undertaking. They're large, they're multi-story, they're not well-suited for restaurants or shops as they now stand.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

well according to my friend down there, they have purchased that expensive black stuff to put over the windows so it doesn't appear the clubs are going anywhere for a while.

[Jason71]

A CM let slip the AdvClub (and possibly others) are booked for corporate parties Super Bowl week, so no changes before February at the absolute earliest.

At this point, who wants to be the first store owner to move in there? I can't imagine the owner of Curl has too much good to say about his Disney landlords right now. Even the Samba Room knock-off, would they really want to open right now only to be surrounded by empty buildings. I'm thinking PI will be the new Oddysey--a high profile location only used for the occasional special event or bathroom stop.

[Maistre Gracey]

Well I guess theoretically anyone business person could rent the AC building, work a legal agreement with Disney to use the entire AC show, and actually re-open the AC...

If Disney wouldn't license the AC show, wouldn't that be a hint it's coming back in the future?

I realize the above has no chance of actually happening.. I'm just tossing it out there..

MG

[zulemara]

I'm tryin to save the cool ya know...40 million to buy Mannequins

[zulemara]

hot off the presses - word that they have already sold mannequins, 8-trax, AC, and BET. No word on motion or CW. I'm working diligently to find the source and find out if the clubs would remain the same

edit: this apparently came from a club manager. More details to follow

edit2: Security has locked the clubs and no one is allowed to go in them because they have been sold.
edit3: RRNBC is likely going to be torn down

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

RRBC needs $millions in renovations so it was a given that it must come down. Plus the space overlooking the lake is valuable.

As to the purchase of the clubs, PLEASE UPDATE ASAP!!!!!

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

RRBC needs $millions in renovations so it was a given that it must come down. Plus the space overlooking the lake is valuable.

As to the purchase of the clubs, PLEASE UPDATE ASAP!!!!!

BobK/Orlando

trust me, the minute I have more info leaked I'll post it! At this point, the source said he did not know if the clubs will remain the same, which I consider to be a positive piece of information. No news is good news, but the specifics of his information makes me think this might be more than just another rumor.

[Scurvy]

There's a private event at the AC tonight and as of yesterday the people involved had not been told anything about it needing to be relocated. Plus, some of the artifacts inside the Club are supposedly owned by one of the imagineers and are to go back to him when everything is removed from the building.

Also, even though Disney has started selling more of their property lately, I didn't think they were going to sell any of DTD. Everything else I've heard has them leasing out space, not selling it.

As much as I would love to hear that the locations/concepts are being leased to an outside party and will return to operation, I would find it shocking if they were actually sold. Not that I am doubting you or your source! I just doubt that part of the info.

I'm also very anxious to hear any updates! Thanks for sharing what you've heard so far.

[DisneyHumbug]

Just curious, did they usually close the AC on a Saturday night for a private party? Or when they booked this event, did Disney know it would already be closed?

[Scurvy]

Just curious, did they usually close the AC on a Saturday night for a private party? Or when they booked this event, did Disney know it would already be closed?

While the AC was still open there were lots of private events there. They had the events in the early evening and opened the AC late on those nights. I don't remember any times when the AC didn't open at all because of an event but there were usually several late openings each month.

I think that all of the remaining events (including tonight) were booked before the closure was announced. We tried to book one after the closing was announced and were unable to do so.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I've posted before and after photos of the sign changes over at my blog:

www.savepleasureisland.blogspot.com

I'm also wondering about the supposed "sale" of the buildings versus "lease". Makes more sense that they've leased the buildings out. And that's a good sign to me because if true, they would not be torn down but merely renovated and re-used. For most of those buildings, they were built as night clubs and it would be very expensive to try to convert to some other use.

BobK/Orlando

[angelmav]

Interesting....I will be following this one closely with fingers crossed!

[TDC Nala]

The bar kiosk outside AC now serves popcorn and nonalcoholic slushy drinks.

[KYMickey]

The bar kiosk outside AC now serves popcorn and nonalcoholic slushy drinks.
Quick, get out of the way! I need to hurry and get my fix of popcorn and slushies! This is certainly much ado about nothing. Hopefully we'll see something better in the future. If everything is going to be of this caliber I'm certainly glad they closed PI. :lmao:

[Jason71]

Quick, get out of the way! I need to hurry and get my fix of popcorn and slushies! This is certainly much ado about nothing. Hopefully we'll see something better in the future. If everything is going to be of this caliber I'm certainly glad they closed PI. :lmao:

It's like any restaurant. You're not paying for the food, you're paying for the atmosphere...of vacant buildings and contruction walls. The perfect attraction for those who find watching paint dry too intense. :lmao:

[zulemara]

This is just pathetic...I didn't even mention the AC club!

I'm writing this letter to express my extreme disappointment in the
management of Walt Disney World. I am frustrated, sad, downright angry,
and nostalgic all at the same time about the closing of Pleasure Island.
Pleasure Island has been a fantastic place for the adult solo traveler,
college crowd, convention crowd, and many more to have some adult fun
while visiting WDW. There is nowhere else to go to dance to 70s and 80s
or techno and guests wanting to have a night life will now be looking
off property to fill their need. If the "bold new vision" of DTD
included something other than outsourced restaurants and a t-shirt shop,
maybe it would sting a little less. Unfortunately, we're getting a
T-shirt shop, outsourced restaurants, and a giant blimp. How exactly
does this satisfy my desire for comedy, dancing, or a night life?
Mannequins was once rated one of the best clubs in the country! It's
hard to believe it could come to this.

I am flying to WDW Friday morning and flying home on Sunday in an
attempt to say goodbye one last time to the place I call my second home.
It's my second home not because of alcohol consumption, but because I
met some fantastic cast members while picking up extra hours as a door
host at 8-trax. I still know managers, door hosts, and ticketing CMs
even though I've lived in WI the last 4 years. Sadly it seems there are
executives more interested in playing landlord than offering something
for EVERYONE to do. It was pretty creative to slowly kill the island so
its closing could be justified. It's too bad that creativity couldn't
be put to better use. Just remember, "you're dead if you aim for only
for kids. Adults are just kids grown up anyway."



They sent back:

Thank you for contacting the Walt Disney World Resort.

We hope your recent visit was an enjoyable one. We recognize that the
closing of the Adventurer's Club has disappointed Guests who have come
to enjoy the unique entertainment that has been offered over the years.
With that in mind, please know a tremendous amount of thought went into
the decision as we bring the new vision for Downtown Disney to life. As
we look to the future, we are excited about the evolution that will
occur over the next two years, introducing a brand new mix of shopping,
dining and other experiences for our Guests' enjoyment.

Our Guests' feedback, as well as their continued enthusiasm for our
products and services, are very important to us. We genuinely
appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts with us.

Sincerely,

Walt Disney World Resort



morons....

[rpmdfw]

This is just pathetic...I didn't even mention the AC club!

morons....

You didn't expect them to actually LISTEN to what you had to say did you?

They don't CARE what we want. They want to TELL us what we want.

[jfinke]

With that in mind, please know a tremendous amount of thought went into
the decision as we bring the new vision for Downtown Disney to life.

We put the numbers into a spreadsheet and found better numbers.

[zulemara]

You didn't expect them to actually LISTEN to what you had to say did you?

They don't CARE what we want. They want to TELL us what we want.

of course not, but the least they could have done is given me a form letter about mannequins or 8-trax. Don't get me wrong, you know I'm in support of AC too, but the fact that I didn't even mention AC and they sent back an AC letter is pathetic! I'll still be sending snail mail letters to all the executives.

[2Xited4Disney]

I'll still be sending snail mail letters to all the executives.

I stop sending to Disney after my last letter I sent to them. I sent them a letter around June explaining that I would be traveling to WDW in August, I am huge fan blah blah blah. I told them that I am a Town Recreation Director and the number one request was a week long trip away. I had been given the go ahead to start the planning. I explained that on my upcoming trip I would love to sit down with someone to start the planning of a group of about 40-50 people. I made 10 copys and sent them to various offices, CRO, Grand Gatherings, etc. I got ZERO response. I then proceeded to email the same letter... Nothing..... Now I guess I could have called someone but I didn't want to wast a Reservation persons time with questions. It looks like we'll be taking 40-50 people off site

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

They sent back:

Thank you for contacting the Walt Disney World Resort.

We hope your recent visit was an enjoyable one. We recognize that the
closing of the Adventurer's Club has disappointed Guests who have come
to enjoy the unique entertainment that has been offered over the years.
With that in mind, please know a tremendous amount of thought went into
the decision as we bring the new vision for Downtown Disney to life. As
we look to the future, we are excited about the evolution that will
occur over the next two years, introducing a brand new mix of shopping,
dining and other experiences for our Guests' enjoyment.

Our Guests' feedback, as well as their continued enthusiasm for our
products and services, are very important to us. We genuinely
appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts with us.

And I got back:

Thank you for contacting the Walt Disney World Resort.

Although we understand your disappointment with our recent announcement
regarding the clubs on Pleasure Island, please know a tremendous amount
of thought went into the decision to bring the bold new vision for
Downtown Disney to life. Taking the Downtown Disney experience to the
next level is consistent with our commitment to provide our Guests with
new, exciting and one-of-a-kind experiences. As we look to the future,
we are excited about the evolution that will occur over the next two
years, introducing a brand new mix of shopping, dining and other
experiences for our Guests' enjoyment.

Our Guests' feedback, as well as their continued enthusiasm for our
products and services, are very important to us. We genuinely
appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts with us.

Close to identical.


BobK/Orlando

[rpmdfw]

please know a tremendous amount
of thought went into the decision to bring the bold new vision for
Downtown Disney to life. Taking the Downtown Disney experience to the
next level is consistent with our commitment to provide our Guests with
new, exciting and one-of-a-kind experiences.



Their commitment to provide guests with one-of-a-kind experiences?!?!?!?


BULLSPIT!

They CLOSED the one-of-a-kind experiences! There is NOTHING in the whole world like the Adventurers Club! Comedy Warehouse, while not completely unique, is still not terribly common. And 8-Trax and Mannequins were first of their kind, not common places as well!

They don't give a good goshdarn about providing "one-of-a-kind" experiences. They don't care about guest experience AT ALL any more. All they care about is the bottom line.

And frankly, I hope that attitude comes back to bite them right on their . . . bottom line.

[zulemara]

Their commitment to provide guests with one-of-a-kind experiences?!?!?!?


BULLSPIT!

They CLOSED the one-of-a-kind experiences! There is NOTHING in the whole world like the Adventurers Club! Comedy Warehouse, while not completely unique, is still not terribly common. And 8-Trax and Mannequins were first of their kind, not common places as well!

They don't give a good goshdarn about providing "one-of-a-kind" experiences. They don't care about guest experience AT ALL any more. All they care about is the bottom line.

And frankly, I hope that attitude comes back to bite them right on their . . . bottom line.

I love your passion...I really do. Amen to that, I hope it bites them right in their bottom line.

[mitros]

I love your passion...I really do. Amen to that, I hope it bites them right in their bottom line.

Nothing seems to be biting them on their bottom line. Folks continue to flock to WDW in record numbers......bad economy? I wonder. :confused3 And whether it's us Americans or, because of the economy, foreigners {no offense, I must remain politically correct} but the crowds continue to grow.

[angelmav]

Not necessarily, the stock is worth about $10 less a share today than when they opened the AC. Not linking the two, but it seems as if a whole bunch of poor decisions are coming back to bite their bottom line.

[zulemara]

Nothing seems to be biting them on their bottom line. Folks continue to flock to WDW in record numbers......bad economy? I wonder. :confused3 And whether it's us Americans or, because of the economy, foreigners {no offense, I must remain politically correct} but the crowds continue to grow.

it's the foreigners keeping WDW afloat right now.

And yes, low stock price...I should buy some so I have an even bigger reason to...complain...for lack of a better word

[rpmdfw]

Nothing seems to be biting them on their bottom line. Folks continue to flock to WDW in record numbers......bad economy? I wonder. :confused3 And whether it's us Americans or, because of the economy, foreigners {no offense, I must remain politically correct} but the crowds continue to grow.

Crowds growing at all of WDW isn't the same as Downtown Disney's bottom line suffering from the closure of Pleasure Island Clubs.

It is possible for me to want Disney World to do well, while hoping that their "Bold New Vision" for Pleasure Island fails miserably. And I REALLY hope it tanks in as spectacular a way as possible.

Sadly, the decisions made at Pleasure Island are also indicative of trends across the theme parks as well. They're thinking too short-term. Cuts are happening everywhere which means a diminished guest expereince, and prices are being raised nonetheless. Yes, the crowds are growing, but how many of them will come BACK. That's the true test. Quality guest experience used to bring people back, slashing the unique quest expereince and turing the resort into a glorified mall and food court with some attractions thrown in, isn't going to encourage as many people to return year after year.

[doconeill]

Nothing seems to be biting them on their bottom line. Folks continue to flock to WDW in record numbers......bad economy? I wonder. :confused3 And whether it's us Americans or, because of the economy, foreigners {no offense, I must remain politically correct} but the crowds continue to grow.

Part of it is probably foreign visitors (although they seem to not be immune to the downturn as of late), but I think Disney is likely to feel a delayed effect. People have already likely paid for their vacations. What would be interesting to see what the booking rates are 3 to 6 months out over last year.

[djlexus]

I have scaled back my trips. I used to go every weekend. I would go to the park during the day and then pi at night. I feel a lot of the locals do this now there taking that business to uso. I think disney just lost there local edge. I have to admit it was great having pi even if i got to the parks late at lets say 7 or 8 I knew i still had something i could do at night. Now with nothing to do i dont wanna go for an hour or so and then have to leave. What a waste. So yea i can personally admit that Pi closing has affected my amount of going to Disney tremendously. Im sure a lot of the locals will agree with me.

[TDC Nala]

Not sure what it means about scaling back but while I had 18 separate trips to Walt Disney World this year, next year I am planning for only six. Four of those are around dining events. One is just to use up some DVC points. One is because I promised my nephew he could go to a Star Wars weekend. None of them are really because I want to go do stuff in the parks myself.

Okay, from sheer numbers that isn't much of a cutback. But it is a cutback. Don't know how much of a bite I'll get at the Walt Disney World bottom line...but I do know it's not just me.

Rob said we were getting a "glorified mall and food court" but as far as the general food offerings go it's not even glorified.

[Scurvy]

I'm scaling back as well. I was supposed to be at WDW this week for a family vacation and then back there again for an adults only trip at the end of the month. Once they announced the closure of PI we decided not to renew our passes, so we're at the beach right now instead. We aren't going at the end of the month, either. We usually go once in December and once in March and we won't be taking those trips either. The next time we'll be at WDW will probably be May, and that's a school trip for our son.

While I'm sure we will end up traveling to Orlando often in the future, I'm not in any rush to get back to Disney World. I foresee my family spending far more time doing other things in the Orlando area, though we will probably spend some time in the Disney parks on some of our trips. Until now we spent almost every minute while we were in Orlando on Disney property but that definitely won't be the case any longer.

[AdventurerKat]

Nothing seems to be biting them on their bottom line. Folks continue to flock to WDW in record numbers......bad economy? I wonder. :confused3 And whether it's us Americans or, because of the economy, foreigners {no offense, I must remain politically correct} but the crowds continue to grow.

If Disney's bottom line isn't being hurt by the current economic situation, why offer additional free dining dates to Disney Visa holders? I don't think they were doing it to be nice. Disney's going to take a pretty good hit in 2009, just like the rest of the tourism industry. Maybe not as hard as it is overall, but they aren't immune.

And now they've just alienated a large portion of the group that helped keep them going through the "slow seasons" - the locals. While PI was a a fun night out destination for vacationers, it was a section of "local clubs" for those in the Orlando area. Those people would come out and dine and shop at Disney before going to the clubs. Now that those clubs aren't there to go to, many of them won't be there to dine and shop. I'd think collectively losing that group is going to hit their bottom line some.

[rpmdfw]

If Disney's bottom line isn't being hurt by the current economic situation, why offer additional free dining dates to Disney Visa holders? I don't think they were doing it to be nice. Disney's going to take a pretty good hit in 2009, just like the rest of the tourism industry. Maybe not as hard as it is overall, but they aren't immune.

And now they've just alienated a large portion of the group that helped keep them going through the "slow seasons" - the locals. While PI was a a fun night out destination for vacationers, it was a section of "local clubs" for those in the Orlando area. Those people would come out and dine and shop at Disney before going to the clubs. Now that those clubs aren't there to go to, many of them won't be there to dine and shop. I'd think collectively losing that group is going to hit their bottom line some.

I know that Downtown Disney won't see the $12K a year we spent there. Of that $10K a year was just for drinks at the Adventurers Club.

Scott and I went 2 or 3 nights a week, always ordered doubles, always drank premium liquor, and always tipped well. And we frequently ate and/or shopped at DTD before hitting the club.

We also went to see movies exclusively at the Pleasure Island AMC theaters, even though there are two other AMC theaters locations more convienient to our home (one of which is CityWalk). We did that, because we enjoyed stopping at the club for a drink afterward on many occasions. Now, there's no reason to do that either, so DTD is losing our movie-going business as well.

I think a lot of other locals are in a similar situation as we are. At least the ones I know and talk to.

[Luv2Roam]

While PI was a a fun night out destination for vacationers, it was a section of "local clubs" for those in the Orlando area. Those people would come out and dine and shop at Disney before going to the clubs. Now that those clubs aren't there to go to, many of them won't be there to dine and shop.
Absolutely. That was us.
And our changes began as soon as the day after. (Four adults going back to their rooms for the evening instead, since there was no PI.)
Last weekend I cancelled our ADR at an Epcot restaurant since again we normally would have dinner and head to CW. Figured wasn't worth the gas or time just for dinner only.
We plan to go to DQ a few times before the end of this year. But other than that we have no reason to go to DTD.
Certainly the close of PI will save us considerable time and money. That is the upside.

[jfinke]

That is the attitude I am going to be taking when we go down in Feb.

Nighttime will consist of a cocktail that I purchased offsite sitting in my DVC balcony. We used to buy the plus/water parks and more/whatever they are calling it package for our tickets. I informed WDW they already lost that money from me. Insignificant to them I am sure, but I am saving money.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Well 2 weekends have come and gone now and no money of mine has gone to Disney since PI closed. But Downtown Orlando and CityWalk got my business the first weekend and CityWalk got my business the second weekend. At this juncture I don't see spending any money on Disney property over the coming year except maybe a visit or two to see the Earl. (of Sandwich)

BobK/Orlando

[Jason71]

Stopped by the former PI last night--about a dozen former AC regulars were there to show support for one of the bartenders who is now pulling shifts at Laffers Cantina.

There's a musician playing "smooth jazz" outside the AC--didn't draw much of a crowd, tho a nice guy. The guy by Wetzels, with his "diggery-doo," did draw a HUGE crowd.

A steady stream of people making their way through PI, but probably fewer than 1 in 6 was actually carrying a shopping bag. The old Jungle Juice stand, now selling slushees and popcorn, closed by 10 due to lack of business. Laffers got slightly bit more business, but there was never a line and long gaps between customers, nowhere near as busy as it used to be. Guess not as many people like to drink while window-shopping as the suits imagined.

In the course of an hour, I saw four groups walk up to the AC and peer in, trying to see if it was open. Also saw occasional groups of 20-somethings in club attire clearly thinking they were on their way to dance somewhere. In fairness, some signage is down, but the neon "Pleasure Island" signs are still up.

Orange County deputies still have a strong presence at DTD--guess they didn't get the memo from various DISers that with PI closing, the criminal element has left.

As I think has been mentioned, construction walls have gone up around the old Missing Link building. Word from the WDW groundlings is that, in addition to featuring a tequila bar, the new Central American restaurant will also turn into a dance club later in the evening--basically making it a rip-off of Samba Room, not another family-friendly Chuck E. Cheese rip-off. Afraid the brand monkeys might choke on thier KoolAid if they ever go in there.

All in all, pretty dead. I can't imagine it's making more money than it did as PI. Spin aside, how do you not make money with a $25 cover and $10 drinks?!?

[*NikkiBell*]

How late are the buses go to and from DTD now that PI is closing?

[TDC Nala]

How late are the buses go to and from DTD now that PI is closing?

Was told they now run until 1 AM. Not sure if that is absolute truth or not.

Whaaaat? They're going to open a DANCE CLUB? Didn't they get that memo about the family-friendly thing?

[Luv2Roam]

Cigars, a Harley Shop, alcohol and dancing. Just smacks one in the face with family friendly. :lmao:

[asianway]

how do you not make money with a $25 cover and $10 drinks?!?

My question would be, how many people actually paid the cover charge? Between CM's, PI Annual passes, and Premium AP's, I would be interested to know how much money actually flowed to the Adventurers Club financial statement. Also, how did they account for a 6 club admission? Split 6 ways? Assign the revenue to the Club where the ticket was activated? And as for CM's, does the Club get a credit that then gets charged to some type of employee benefit pool?

I personally think that creative accounting could have either saved the club or did it in.

[jfinke]

My question would be, how many people actually paid the cover charge? Between CM's, PI Annual passes, and Premium AP's, I would be interested to know how much money actually flowed to the Adventurers Club financial statement. Also, how did they account for a 6 club admission? Split 6 ways? Assign the revenue to the Club where the ticket was activated? And as for CM's, does the Club get a credit that then gets charged to some type of employee benefit pool?

I personally think that creative accounting could have either saved the club or did it in.

Yeah, but can't you say the same thing about say Animal Kingdom. People rarely purchase one day tickets, I assume. Most people attending are on APs, PAPs, or PH for however long they are in the area.

They certainly have had counters at every entrance to the AC and CW. Is it even necessary to split it from an accounting point of view. It seems that they treated PI as one operating entity.

[KYMickey]

My question would be, how many people actually paid the cover charge? Between CM's, PI Annual passes, and Premium AP's, I would be interested to know how much money actually flowed to the Adventurers Club financial statement. Also, how did they account for a 6 club admission? Split 6 ways? Assign the revenue to the Club where the ticket was activated? And as for CM's, does the Club get a credit that then gets charged to some type of employee benefit pool?

I personally think that creative accounting could have either saved the club or did it in.
The cover charge was only a small portion of potential profits for PI. The real area for profits was the prices they charged for drinks and other items. Almost any other club would love to have the profit margins that the clubs in PI had. In addition they certainly wouldn't be closing to look for a way to make more profit while driving away existing customers.

[rpmdfw]

The cover charge was only a small portion of potential profits for PI. The real area for profits was the prices they charged for drinks and other items. Almost any other club would love to have the profit margins that the clubs in PI had. In addition they certainly wouldn't be closing to look for a way to make more profit while driving away existing customers.

Not just any other club, any other BUSINESS would love to hae the profit margins that the AC had. Sadly, someone with a spreadsheet somewhere in Califorina thought that they could do better as landlords of crappy merchandise stores and mediocre food offerings. They got greedy, pure and simple.

Completely missing the point.

[TDC Nala]

I think it's been established that Disney wanted to divest itself of all of its nightclub business at PI. Their intent is to turn it into another Anaheim DTD - third-party businesses with the exception of the Disney merchandise stores, street entertainment provided by independent contractors (not Disney employees), selling mass-produced food and merchandise geared toward tourists, not locals. Unless I am mistaken, while the Disneyland parks attract locals, the Downtown Disney area in Anaheim does not. (I actually spoke to someone a couple of weeks ago who made this comparison - they were ecstatic about WDW moving toward a Disneyland type of downtown area, as Disneyland's didn't attract the same "undesirable element" as WDW's did. This person blamed the PI nightclubs for that "element." I think it's more the fact that WDW does not charge for parking at DTD, while Disneyland does.)

I tend to consider the "family-friendly" bit to be a smokescreen as they are still selling alcoholic beverages in bars on the street, and one of the new additions will be a Latin combo restaurant and dance club (run by someone other than Disney of course.)

I'd speculate that for those of you who are pleased to see the nightclubs go, you're going to see more nightclubs. The difference will be that a third party will run them. (Some already consider Raglan Road a nightclub - it's open late and features live music and copious alcohol)

[rpmdfw]

I think it's been established that Disney wanted to divest itself of all of its nightclub business at PI. Their intent is to turn it into another Anaheim DTD - third-party businesses with the exception of the Disney merchandise stores, street entertainment provided by independent contractors (not Disney employees), selling mass-produced food and merchandise geared toward tourists, not locals. Unless I am mistaken, while the Disneyland parks attract locals, the Downtown Disney area in Anaheim does not. (I actually spoke to someone a couple of weeks ago who made this comparison - they were ecstatic about WDW moving toward a Disneyland type of downtown area, as Disneyland's didn't attract the same "undesirable element" as WDW's did. This person blamed the PI nightclubs for that "element." I think it's more the fact that WDW does not charge for parking at DTD, while Disneyland does.)

I tend to consider the "family-friendly" bit to be a smokescreen as they are still selling alcoholic beverages in bars on the street, and one of the new additions will be a Latin combo restaurant and dance club (run by someone other than Disney of course.)

I'd speculate that for those of you who are pleased to see the nightclubs go, you're going to see more nightclubs. The difference will be that a third party will run them. (Some already consider Raglan Road a nightclub - it's open late and features live music and copious alcohol)

The thing about Anaheim's Downtown Disney is that, since it's ajacent to the parks, hotels, and parking garage, it doesn't have to be a destination in and of itself. You pretty much have to walk past it or through it whenever you're going to Disneyland. So that model works well for that resort.

At WDW, however, it needs to be a draw. A reason to get on a bus, or into a car and travel to the edge of Disney property. For many people, local and tourist alike, that draw was Pleasure Island.

They're making Florida decisions based on the California business model. That's stupid. They're two distinct markets and demographic models. Making the same decisions for both, isn't smart business.

I could see phasing out some of the dance clubs. Rock 'n' Roll Beach Club and Motion clearly weren't carrying their weight. But why close all of P.I. when they can't even get anyone to lease RNRBC? It makes no sense.

[jfinke]

And again, I would have to point out the existence of the AMC and Virgin Mega stores. This has nothing to do with being "family friendly", whatever that means. It has to do with the bottom line and making more guaranteed money by leasing space.

[rpmdfw]

And again, I would have to point out the existence of the AMC and Virgin Mega stores. This has nothing to do with being "family friendly", whatever that means. It has to do with the bottom line and making more guaranteed money by leasing space.

That "guaranteed money" only comes along if you can actually get someone to lease the space. Word is that they haven't had ANYONE interested in Rock 'n' Roll Beach Club since it closed in March, and rumor has it that they've dropped their price a couple of times already.

Likewise, they don't currently have any takers on ANY of the clubs.

So it seems that the "guaranteed money" would have been to continue operating night clubs that were actually pulling in revenue, rather than having to maintain empty buildings that no one wants to lease.

[jfinke]

I am not disagreeing with you.

I am saying the the sole reason for the change is that someone came up with a spreadsheet that showed better numbers for leasing the land vs. operating PI as is or reinvesting in it. We all know that Disney never makes mistakes in their estimations. :rolleyes:

The "family friendly" angle is just a red herring.

[rpmdfw]

I am not disagreeing with you.

I am saying the the sole reason for the change is that someone came up with a spreadsheet that showed better numbers for leasing the land vs. operating PI as is or reinvesting in it. We all know that Disney never makes mistakes in their estimations. :rolleyes:

The "family friendly" angle is just a red herring.

Sorry. I knew you weren't in disagreement. I was just adding on to what you said and pointing out how absurd it all is.

Didn't mean to come across as defensive or argumentative. :rotfl:

[jfinke]

No worries... I was just clarifying my statement. I have been getting kind of defensive with all of the "family people" around saying that closing PI was a good thing for the kids. Won't anyone think of the children? ;)

My wife keeps telling me I need to step away from the Disboards.

[rpmdfw]

My wife keeps telling me I need to step away from the Disboards.

I agree! Let's go to Pleasure Island for a drink. :rolleyes:

[jfinke]

I agree! Let's go to Pleasure Island for a drink. :rolleyes:

Oh how I wish I could...

However, at this point, I will just have to sip on some Jack on my DVC balcony in Feb.

[rpmdfw]

Oh how I wish I could...

However, at this point, I will just have to sip on some Jack on my DVC balcony in Feb.

That works. And it'll probably be cheaper, too.

Still, I never begrudged spending a cent on P.I.'s overpriced drinks, and would gladly pay double to have one more "normal" night at the Adventurers Club.

*sigh*

[TDC Nala]

Oh how I wish I could...

However, at this point, I will just have to sip on some Jack on my DVC balcony in Feb.

I could do that, if I set up a laptop and watch YouTube all night on the balcony it'll be just like old times. Sort of.

[jfinke]

Maybe we will have a virtual PI to go with DisneyQuest. ;)

[jfinke]

Still, I never begrudged spending a cent on P.I.'s overpriced drinks, and would gladly pay double to have one more "normal" night at the Adventurers Club.

*sigh*

Be careful what you wish for. We may end up a "new and improved" AC with double priced drinks! :rotfl:

[angelmav]

TDC Nala, its funny that you brought up the Anaheim model, as that thought crossed my mind, but I always thought their was no way they would kill off a unique DTD for the crummy version in Anaheim, I mean that version is pretty bad, no one would go their for the experience of Anaheims DTD, there is no draw that cant be had off property and at a fraction of the price. Add to that the fact that Disneyland doesnt have the on site captive guests like WDW, and it makes no sense to duplicate it? :confused3

[TDC Nala]

TDC Nala, its funny that you brought up the Anaheim model, as that thought crossed my mind, but I always thought their was no way they would kill off a unique DTD for the crummy version in Anaheim, I mean that version is pretty bad, no one would go their for the experience of Anaheims DTD, there is no draw that cant be had off property and at a fraction of the price. Add to that the fact that Disneyland doesnt have the on site captive guests like WDW, and it makes no sense to duplicate it? :confused3

WDW may have the onsite guests - but as Rob pointed out somewhere, the major difference between Anaheim and Lake Buena Vista is that even if you're a WDW onsite guest (which I usually am) and you don't have a car (which I usually don't), you need to make an effort to get to and from DTD, unless maybe you are staying at Saratoga Springs. I for one am not going to be making that effort so much anymore because there no longer that much of a reason for me to go. I like Raglan Road a lot but I am not going to hang out there for hours - eat, have a couple beers and get out of there. Then what? I'm not local but I am there so much that the tourist trappings aren't going to draw me. A put your own face on a tee shirt wouldn't get me over there - I don't want my face where I can see it.

Even if you have a car, you need to make more of an effort than onsite guests at Anaheim have to make. DTD is a gateway to the parks over there. (Don't know if it's relevant - but CityWalk is also a gateway to the parks at Universal.)

I've been to Anaheim several times over the last few years and spent zero time actually hanging around Downtown Disney. Walked through it to get back to the hotel from the parks, stopped in some stores, picked up some beignets. Never even took the time to eat in any of the restaurants beyond carrying out some beignets and bread pudding from that New Orleans place.

At least they had a Sephora so if I forgot my makeup I could have picked some up.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Various comments:

1. No doubt Universal Florida did it right when they built CityWalk in front of the two theme parks which forces people to walk through it to get to and from those parks. Yet even there most of the night clubs are upstairs so there is little mixing between those partying and those just passing through.

2. Thus, Downtown Disney in Florida has to be a destination because people have to make an effort to go there. And a destination it was. And for some, it still will be. Fine. But for locals here in Orlando, there is now little reason to go. For adults traveling without kids and conventioneers, no reason at all.

3. I don't see how the customer base at DTD in Anaheim being nearly 100% tourists is a good thing and something to replicate. Disneyland has its own problems with teens since it's so very local. Area teens have annual passes and spend every afternoon hanging around IN the theme park. That's not a good thing. Any problem PI had with teens was because they opened the island. If they had kept it ticketed adults only, teens would have NEVER been hanging out there.

4. I too think that PI was one entity and ticket sales (daily or passesl) were not allocated to each club for accounting purposes. After all, most of the time you simply had to show your armband to get into a different club and they did not count attendance except on busier nights when they were tracking capacity. Not so at CityWalk though were most of the clubs seem to be outsourced. I've been out there with my new CityWalk AP (Thanks PI!) and while you get an armband at the first club, you still have to let each club scan your Pass (or daily ticket) the first time you visit that night. So there I believe something is being allocated and it perhaps explains why they never offered an AP in the past.

5. It's hard to believe that there are no firm plans for PI. Were they really that desperate to shut the place down?

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

I have been off the boards for a few days so I was just catching up. You all bring good points and ideas as usual. One thing I want to add and I'd love to say to many many more people - the ONLY reason DISNEY has actually given is "based on guest feedback" there has been no statement about family friendly. Of course one can speculate what their survey said, but I doubt they stuck around during the night and asked people walking through with kids at midnight if they thought the area should be more kid friendly. We talked to a guy in line at Mannequins who used to be in charge of the research group that Disney uses and he said they always survey during the day when families are all over the place.

Either way it's all speculation. We don't know the financial numbers and we don't know the exact reason this came to fruition(other than the fact that EVERYTHING is about the bottom dollar in some way these days)

What we do know is what doesn't make sense
1. Close the clubs with obviously no immediate plans for construction
2. Close all the clubs at once rather than closing BET and Motion first
3. Why not wait until the new year? Why close before the holidays? It makes no sense.

We know no major announcement will be made until at least January. So the clubs are empty for essentially no reason.

If they don't have a buyer for mannequins, I'd be interested to see how much they want for it:cool1:

[mitros]

I have been off the boards for a few days so I was just catching up. You all bring good points and ideas as usual. One thing I want to add and I'd love to say to many many more people - the ONLY reason DISNEY has actually given is "based on guest feedback" there has been no statement about family friendly. Of course one can speculate what their survey said, but I doubt they stuck around during the night and asked people walking through with kids at midnight if they thought the area should be more kid friendly. We talked to a guy in line at Mannequins who used to be in charge of the research group that Disney uses and he said they always survey during the day when families are all over the place.

Either way it's all speculation. We don't know the financial numbers and we don't know the exact reason this came to fruition(other than the fact that EVERYTHING is about the bottom dollar in some way these days)

What we do know is what doesn't make sense
1. Close the clubs with obviously no immediate plans for construction
2. Close all the clubs at once rather than closing BET and Motion first
3. Why not wait until the new year? Why close before the holidays? It makes no sense.

We know no major announcement will be made until at least January. So the clubs are empty for essentially no reason.

If they don't have a buyer for mannequins, I'd be interested to see how much they want for it:cool1:

Your point #3; I was under the impression they closed it when they did because it was the end of their {Disney"s} fiscal year. In a huge corporation I think that makes sense. {to the bean counters}

[KYMickey]

Your point #3; I was under the impression they closed it when they did because it was the end of their {Disney"s} fiscal year. In a huge corporation I think that makes sense. {to the bean counters}
I'm also sure that the bean counters were rather see some profits (even if lower than company targets) than no profits at all. PI had to be making a profit since I'm sure the buildings are fully depreciated so the only operating costs were staff, food and beverages. When PI was closed doesn't make any sense since the facilities are now just sitting vacant.

[doconeill]

Do we REALLY know that it was making a significant margin? Someone previously posted here or somewhere that they heard AC was LOSING $250k (don't know if that was annually, or quarterly, or what). I'd expect margins on AC to be lower because of the professional staff required.

Also, when they removed the gates, they made each club responsible for ticket sales. This had two effects - first, it allowed them to more directly attribute ticket sales to an individual club (and even passholder attendance so some level of pass sales could be accounted to the club), but second - it required more staff to handle ticket sales, and thus increased costs, which could also be directly charged to that club's bottom line.

At any rate, I don't think management are COMPLETE idiots. I'm sure there is some reason the clubs were closed - they either have SOME plan that is/will be put in place and we just don't see any outwards signs of it, or PI wasn't making the margins that they would have liked, and opted to close it now and close the fiscal books and deal with a plan later.

Just because PI or a particular club may have made a profit, if the margin didn't meet expectations, they may feel that the operating expenses might be better directed elsewhere in the meantime.

NOTE: I'm not saying I agree with any of this - its just appears that there is conflicting information out there and a lot of supposition.

I DO agree with that Disney needs to find a way to make DTD a destination for people. I think it has earned a bad reputation as of late and Disney needs to figure out a way to attract more people while repairing that reputation.

[mitros]

Do any of us REALLY know wht goes on behind closed doors at Disney? Of course not. All we can do is speculate and offer our thoughts on the matter.

[doconeill]

Do any of us REALLY know wht goes on behind closed doors at Disney? Of course not. All we can do is speculate and offer our thoughts on the matter.

Oh, I totally agree...it just seems the tenor of the discussion had taken supposition as fact, which I guess was the point my ramblings were trying to make (not feeling well tonight.... :sick:)

[asianway]

Let me preface this by saying that no one wants the club brought back more than me.

We cannot assume that PI as a whole, or even the Adventurers Club by itself was making a profit. There are a lot of hidden costs which I am sure no one is taking into account. For example, it took 20 people every night to bring the Club to life. Assuming 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, that is 17.5 full time positions. The average Health Insurance premium is going to run $350 a month per employee. Say 10 of them participate, thats $3500 in insurance premiums a month. If the average drink is $8(being generous as beer is cheaper), and the cost of the alcohol is 15%, you would need to sell 514 drinks a month just to cover the cost of insurance. We also forget that Disney is a large corporate behemoth in terms of overhead. They need to charge out accounting, IT, HR, engineering, marketing(as Otis would say, "Dont make me laugh"), a VP... to all of their profit centers. There is also real and personal property taxes in addition to general liability, liquor liability, and property insurance premiums to cover. I believe in 1989 buildings were depreciated over 31 years, but that is not what shows up in their analysis. They are most likely putting aside 5% into a reserve to replace the roof every 20 years, buy new furniture, new Kungaloosh machines when they break, etc.

If you start to actually put a pencil and paper to it, it was barely covering its costs, and if it was, it certainly wasnt returning a 6-10% return on the value of the lakefront property it sits on. Compare this to DVC which can turn a single hotel room into $1,000,000 and collect an ongoing management fee for 50 years, and you begin to see what the crunchers see.

Now, could they be innovative? Sell "seat licenses" or memberships like Club 33? Do a dinner show and get $60 a head or charge $25 to all people walking in the door and try to push the limits of what people will pay? Why not, they do it everywhere else on property. How much do they charge for a Bibbidi Bobbidi makeover? I dont like the Main Street barber shop's long term prospects...

That is what upsets me the most, they didnt even try.

[KYMickey]

Let me preface this by saying that no one wants the club brought back more than me.

We cannot assume that PI as a whole, or even the Adventurers Club by itself was making a profit. There are a lot of hidden costs which I am sure no one is taking into account. For example, it took 20 people every night to bring the Club to life. Assuming 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, that is 17.5 full time positions. The average Health Insurance premium is going to run $350 a month per employee. Say 10 of them participate, thats $3500 in insurance premiums a month. If the average drink is $8(being generous as beer is cheaper), and the cost of the alcohol is 15%, you would need to sell 514 drinks a month just to cover the cost of insurance. We also forget that Disney is a large corporate behemoth in terms of overhead. They need to charge out accounting, IT, HR, engineering, marketing(as Otis would say, "Dont make me laugh"), a VP... to all of their profit centers. There is also real and personal property taxes in addition to general liability, liquor liability, and property insurance premiums to cover. I believe in 1989 buildings were depreciated over 31 years, but that is not what shows up in their analysis. They are most likely putting aside 5% into a reserve to replace the roof every 20 years, buy new furniture, new Kungaloosh machines when they break, etc.

If you start to actually put a pencil and paper to it, it was barely covering its costs, and if it was, it certainly wasnt returning a 6-10% return on the value of the lakefront property it sits on.
The points you raise a very valid with one exception. All the costs you mention with the exception of salaries and benefits are continuing even though PI is closed. If they were doing something else with the property immediately closing possibly makes sense but just leaving the property vacant and nonproductive certainly doesn't! Disney certainly has ulterior motives for this move and only time will tell what it is.

[Another Voice]

We also forget that Disney is a large corporate behemoth in terms of overhead. They need to charge out accounting, IT, HR, engineering, marketing(as Otis would say, "Dont make me laugh"), a VP... to all of their profit centers.
So Disney closed the Adventurer's Club because Disney is a bloated inefficient company that would rather reduce the guest experience than lower the management annual bonsues?

That's basically about right


P.S. All the costs you're talking about are likely less than a month's rent on the swank Manhatten apartment that The Company leases for Bob Iger.

[angelmav]

Well a company like disney can manipulate the numbers to say anything they want to, but it had been reported in the past that PI was indeed turning a profit, with the AC doing the most business (alot of this was indeed offset by the much higher operating costs).

It still makes no sense to end when they did rather than letting the clubs ride it out through the holiday's.

I think there is also a major miscalculation in just how many tickets were purchased with the 'and more' option, whether those folks ever made it to PI or not (every vacation plans get scuttled, time flies!), that was money in the bank for Disney that PI had to be accounting for a sizeable chunk of.

Getting a ticket upgrade from folks upfront thats non-refundable if its not used so folks 'can' have the ability to go seems like a pretty sweet deal for disney.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

One thing I want to add and I'd love to say to many many more people - the ONLY reason DISNEY has actually given is "based on guest feedback" there has been no statement about family friendly.

Well if you read the very first paragraph of the very first announcement of the PI closure as stated in the Orlando Sentinel, I think you're incorrect:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-disney2808jun28,0,2367595.story

Later in the article Lansberry is quoted, "Truthfully, our guests have really gotten out of that in the last couple of years. They want things that are a lot more geared toward family entertainment."

So those of us who feel Disney has referred to their vision of PI as more "family friendly" do in fact have a basis for that statement. The AC was family friendly even if my beloved Mannequins and 8TRAX were not. The new South American restaurant/night club is not in any way family friendly.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

Well if you read the very first paragraph of the very first announcement of the PI closure as stated in the Orlando Sentinel, I think you're incorrect:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-disney2808jun28,0,2367595.story

Later in the article Lansberry is quoted, "Truthfully, our guests have really gotten out of that in the last couple of years. They want things that are a lot more geared toward family entertainment."

So those of us who feel Disney has referred to their vision of PI as more "family friendly" do in fact have a basis for that statement. The AC was family friendly even if my beloved Mannequins and 8TRAX were not. The new South American restaurant/night club is not in any way family friendly.

BobK/Orlando

Very well, I stand corrected. Their guest feedback is still extremely skewed based on time of day and location. I'm sure the questions weren't exactly honest either.

To that end, to people who say the clubs were not profitable, Kevin "I'm a newb" lansberry stated the clubs are still profitable in one of the news articles. How profitable, we don't know, but he stated it himself. I used to work at 8-trax, we had a sales goal for alcohol and that club absolutely crushed it every night I worked, which was usually thurs-sunday after working 8 hrs at the golf course:cool1: I can't speak for the other days, but even if they didn't smash it, I'm sure they weren't terribly under goal.

I did not realize the end of the corporate year is the end of September. On the one hand it makes sense, but on the other hand you're still leaving a LOT of revenue out there for the holiday season. They are cutting everything else in January, why not cut PI then too?

They still don't seem to have any idea what they are doing with the clubs. It just doesn't make sense for clubs to sit empty for months! Clubs open=profit. It doesn't matter if it's a dollar a day, it's still profit!

Disney is suppose to be about everyone, not just families. People have "gotten away from it" because YOU HAVEN'T PROMOTED IT!!!

I hope this effects their bottom dollar in the worst way possible and forces them to both realize their mistake and fire Kevin Lansberry for killing the island and making this stupid decision.

[Jason71]

I hope this effects their bottom dollar in the worst way possible and forces them to both realize their mistake and fire Kevin Lansberry for killing the island and making this stupid decision.

Lord knows I've taken shots at Lansberry on this forum and others, but latest word from the WDW groundlings is that while he ended up a "good soldier" following orders from the West Coast, he initially fought the closing--pure speculation on my part, but probably because he knew how profitable the clubs were. Especially since NOTHING has replaced or even been announced for the closed clubs--can't stress that enough. Everything "new" could have opened without closing the clubs, and probably would have benefited from the crowd the clubs brought.

The real people who need to be fired are the PR guys who came up with that "family-friendly" line. King Bob is right, it's laughable at this point.

[TDC Nala]

Although last time I went by the big sign outside the PI entrance it read "shopping, dining, family entertainment."

They're plugging the family thing because they think that is where the money is. They also think that is what the majority of their visitors want, and to the people running the show right now, the majority rules. They may be correct for now, which puts them into the screw the locals phase - you all don't spend as much as the once-in-a-lifetime extended family reunion crowd. That will rebound when the families can't afford to make the trip anymore.

Someone on another thread somewhere just put up the opinion that the get in free on your birthday thing is meant to cater to the locals. Close PI, leave empty buildings standing around DTD, make it practically impossible for you all to get into the restaurants without booking them months ahead of time, but you can have a free birthday.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The odds of a tourist group/family being here on their birthday is overall rather slim. Sure, if you can plan a vacation around a free date, then great, but with 12 months in a year and really only a few summer tourism months, the odds are slim. If you want to be here for your spring break, you're going to be here that week. If you want to be here for Christmas or Labor Day or whatever, that's when you're coming. I don't see the FREE BIRTHDAY deal generating much business at all. As for locals, most of us who have any interest in visiting the parks already have multi-day tickets or annual passes and we come when we want. The FREE BIRTHDAY provides an incentive to go that day but is Disney really gaining much revenue? Of course official studies are no doubt going to show what a great success this program was. NOT!

In economics class I recall that a business that made $1.00 in profit stayed in that business and those that lost $1.00 got out of that business. I realize the real world doesn't quite work that way but surely PI made at least $1M in profit every year. The only reason to change is if they felt they could make more doing something else. Right now they're making nothing out there so they could have kept it going until they actually had something else to replace things with, as Jason pointed out.

BobK/Orlando

[CanadianGuy]

A lot of emphasis seems to be placed in the latter half of this thread on "nothing announced to replace them" and the lost revenue around that.

I'd just like to point out that not announcing something yet knowing exactly what it will be and just keeping yer yap shut until a predetermined time are pretty much standard operating procedure in a corporation with more than 10 employees.

What's unusual here is that most companies in this line of business would announce what's coming ... in theory because once you lose a customer (in this case to CityWalk) there is a real risk they may not come back.

Disney has always relied on their sheer size and brand strength to bring 'em back anyway. Whether that will hold true in this case ultimately will be decided by what goes in there and elsewhere on property... and the strength of their brand may do as it has always done ... 'bring em back'.

To suggest that because we common folk see 'nothing happening' with those buildings and spaces ... then that is the reality is downright silly. I think a plan is afoot and Disney will announce whatever that is when they and they alone are darned good and ready and it is in their best interest to do so.

Closing the business at the end of fiscal makes a LOT of sense from an accounting practice and helps keep the accounting for the employees who may have to change business units etc. nice and clean. And same goes for the buildings, taxes and other charges.


However, the buildings will need either renovation and work -- either to be used as something else .. or worst case scenario if they are to be torn down. Again, from an accounting perspective, it's nice and clean to do that in a new fiscal and/or new business operating unit etc.

Are those accounting reasons enough to close the clubs months and months ahead of the need? Not really.

But since we don't know how long they'll be closed before something is announced ... we can't say what the need is, nor can we say for certain they were closed prematurely.

For that matter, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Disney opened several clubs independently over Christmas and New Year's Eve and simply charged a cover for each bar, each night.

And earlier in this thread it was suggested the contents and leases for the buildings have been sold. If that's the case, the dance clubs at least may be open in some other form well before Christmas.

If not, I assure you Disney doesn't care because a lease is usually being paid while construction and renovation are being done - esp if it's leasee paid work.

We simply don't know, a press release could be forthcoming in the next 14 days.. or never... or tomorrow.

Nobody likes to wait - least of all me. But I do believe all will be come crystal clear in the light of time.

:)

Knox

[Maistre Gracey]

But I do believe all will be come crystal clear in the light of time.

:)

Knox
I certainly hope you are right, but you definitely have more faith than I do..

MG

[zulemara]

A lot of emphasis seems to be placed in the latter half of this thread on "nothing announced to replace them" and the lost revenue around that.

I'd just like to point out that not announcing something yet knowing exactly what it will be and just keeping yer yap shut until a predetermined time are pretty much standard operating procedure in a corporation with more than 10 employees.

What's unusual here is that most companies in this line of business would announce what's coming ... in theory because once you lose a customer (in this case to CityWalk) there is a real risk they may not come back.

Disney has always relied on their sheer size and brand strength to bring 'em back anyway. Whether that will hold true in this case ultimately will be decided by what goes in there and elsewhere on property... and the strength of their brand may do as it has always done ... 'bring em back'.

To suggest that because we common folk see 'nothing happening' with those buildings and spaces ... then that is the reality is downright silly. I think a plan is afoot and Disney will announce whatever that is when they and they alone are darned good and ready and it is in their best interest to do so.

Closing the business at the end of fiscal makes a LOT of sense from an accounting practice and helps keep the accounting for the employees who may have to change business units etc. nice and clean. And same goes for the buildings, taxes and other charges.


However, the buildings will need either renovation and work -- either to be used as something else .. or worst case scenario if they are to be torn down. Again, from an accounting perspective, it's nice and clean to do that in a new fiscal and/or new business operating unit etc.

Are those accounting reasons enough to close the clubs months and months ahead of the need? Not really.

But since we don't know how long they'll be closed before something is announced ... we can't say what the need is, nor can we say for certain they were closed prematurely.

For that matter, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Disney opened several clubs independently over Christmas and New Year's Eve and simply charged a cover for each bar, each night.

And earlier in this thread it was suggested the contents and leases for the buildings have been sold. If that's the case, the dance clubs at least may be open in some other form well before Christmas.

If not, I assure you Disney doesn't care because a lease is usually being paid while construction and renovation are being done - esp if it's leasee paid work.

We simply don't know, a press release could be forthcoming in the next 14 days.. or never... or tomorrow.

Nobody likes to wait - least of all me. But I do believe all will be come crystal clear in the light of time.

:)

Knox

all very good points as usual. I can only hope there is a significant amount of truth to the buildings being sold or leased and that they will indeed reopen.

I'll tell ya one thing - unless the clubs are reopened with the same music selections, this CM is not giving one more dime to anything that goes in the PI area. I'll go to citywalk and give them my business. Brand strength can not match the anger I have for this decision. As I suggested before, perhaps Universal will LISTEN to their guests and consider having a 70s and 80s night or techno night at one of their clubs.

[jfinke]

I wonder how much money Disney CM's dropped straight back into their coffers by going to PI over the years? Now, how much of that money is going to a direct competitor?

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Are those accounting reasons enough to close the clubs months and months ahead of the need? Not really.

Well that's where I thought you were going with this and I'm glad you didn't. Because PI is still there, there are still employees out there, there is still security out there, there are still building expenses. So the accounting department still has a ledger for PI and computer-wise it doesn't matter how many line items are cost-attributed to PI every week, 200 or 2000. I can tell you the line items for revenue from PI are extremely low.

I do agree that Disney probably knows what its plans are and are keeping it under the hat. But if you look at the very first entry that I began this thread with, it was seeking that very information which supposedly top Disney managers got to view. Disney employees are not very good at keeping secrets, that's for sure. Yet there has not been ONE SINGLE LEAK of information about this. Thus, that's why I tend to believe that Disney has close to no plans for most of PI except to lease it out.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

I wonder how much money Disney CM's dropped straight back into their coffers by going to PI over the years? Now, how much of that money is going to a direct competitor?

I'm certainly one of them! The other thing to think about are the 6-7 THOUSAND college program kids, PLUS international students who went to PI on a regular basis. Yes, admission was free, but I assure you they spent their hard earned 6.79/hr wages on those 8 dollar drinks! Imagine 1 hour of cleaning a protein spill because some guest can't read nausea warnings, or 1 hour of non stop quick service action all for one drink. It went right back into the company,.

These college program kids NEED a place to go to relax and chill out. I practically lived at PI my second semester and others did as well. You can't work kids 40-45 hrs a week all hours of the night and take away the things the kids who enjoy dancing, comedy, and a few drinks want. This is just one more group that seems to get left out of the equation. Luckily I have friends who are locals and a car that gets 45mpg. Not everyone on the CP is that lucky.

[LuluLovesDisney]

The other thing to think about are the 6-7 THOUSAND college program kids, PLUS international students who went to PI on a regular basis. Yes, admission was free, but I assure you they spent their hard earned 6.79/hr wages on those 8 dollar drinks! Imagine 1 hour of cleaning a protein spill because some guest can't read nausea warnings, or 1 hour of non stop quick service action all for one drink. It went right back into the company,.



Former CP and I totally agree!!!

protein spill = vomit waiting to be cleaned up for all non CM's ;)

[Jason71]

A lot of emphasis seems to be placed in the latter half of this thread on "nothing announced to replace them" and the lost revenue around that.

I'd just like to point out that not announcing something yet knowing exactly what it will be and just keeping yer yap shut until a predetermined time are pretty much standard operating procedure in a corporation with more than 10 employees.


But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.

And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.

I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.

[angelmav]

But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.

And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.

I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.

I think that your probably striking very close to the truth with this. Any company that had a signed lease and was presumably spending money already would certainly want the associated pub that accompanies it. You think Hanes wanted their T-shirt store kept a secret until ribbon cutting?

I think that their are things that are going to work against these clubs morphing into something else. The economy for one thing, companies are just not going to be in a hurry expand, let alone take on the kind of financial outpouring that would be required by disney, you dont think they are going to lease these properties on the cheap do you?

Also, keep in mind, they need a group of businesses to make this work that will feed off each other to make transforming this even the least bit desirable, just how easy do you think thats going to be?

Personnally, I think this area could be shuttered for quite awhile before any development takes place, and Disney may have to re-develop it themselves, or at least committ an awful lot of resources to that end to make it attractive enough to lure the type of businesses they would want to target.

[CanadianGuy]

But come on, most companies with 10 employees don't have entire message boards dedicated to their "News & Rumors." The PI closing story was going strong with credible evidence and an approximate date at least as far back as Marathon Weekend--I think Another Voice may have broken it a month or two before that. Nothing happens at WDW without word leaking out early.

And, honestly, WDW has a history of letting closed attractions/buildings sit and rot (or sit and be used sporadically for special events). Odyssey. Wonders of Life. Pop Century: Legendary Years. The Skyride station.

I'm afraid you're being overly optimistic that "secret" tenants have already been signed. The Central American restaurant was first rumored 2 years ago, and there's no way that opens before Christmas. I doubt anything else will open before it.

Yeah.. except.. I only mentioned that rumor was present in this thread.. I'm not entirely sure I believe it as stated.

I'm not particularly optimistic at all.. but I am saying that it's too early to pass judgement.

[DisneyBugs]

ok folks, I'll be honest... i have not read thru the entire 15 pages of this thread, so if this is addressed already, forgive me...

I just read on the Dis that Hanes will be opening a new create your own t-shirt shop at DownTown Disney -- I think this is part of the replacement scheme for PI. Anyhow, I remember waaay back when it was just DownTown Disney Village Marketplace. Inside one of the stores there was a create your own t-shirt thing. I actually bought a DarkWingDuck one for a friend as a joke (long story!).

That offering was eventually pulled and replaced -- and I'm assuming it was pulled because it wasn't getting as much traffic, or was no longer profitable. So --- Why put another one back in?

If anything -- this makes me think that there is a possibility that someday they'll bring back AC....HERE'S HOPING!!

GO SOX!!!!!!!

[Traveliz]

ok folks, I'll be honest... i have not read thru the entire 15 pages of this thread, so if this is addressed already, forgive me...

I just read on the Dis that Hanes will be opening a new create your own t-shirt shop at DownTown Disney -- I think this is part of the replacement scheme for PI. Anyhow, I remember waaay back when it was just DownTown Disney Village Marketplace. Inside one of the stores there was a create your own t-shirt thing. I actually bought a DarkWingDuck one for a friend as a joke (long story!).

That offering was eventually pulled and replaced -- and I'm assuming it was pulled because it wasn't getting as much traffic, or was no longer profitable. So --- Why put another one back in?

If anything -- this makes me think that there is a possibility that someday they'll bring back AC....HERE'S HOPING!!

GO SOX!!!!!!!

The Hanes store is actually going in what was the former Disney Memories (scrapbook store) at the far end of the Marketplace (no where near PI).

Liz

[Moeluv4u7]

Thread seems to have gone OT just a bit but it has been entertaining anyway- I hope we all know what will be happening soon and when it is scheduled to be in operation-
On a different note- It has affected our ticket buying motives-
We were going to get 10 day hoppers w/ waterparks N more nonexpiring tickets-
We will now be getting 10 day nonexpiring and still not certain if we will add hoppers or not
We are DVCers so the waterparks would have been cool but we have themed pools at the resorts- the biggest thing the "more" would have covered for me & Dh would have been the entertainment at PI- and the fact that we have 5 kids, 2 of them minors but old enough to have been able to go to the CW and they were really looking forward to that-
I hope they do something that Teens can partake in for a nightlife venue as well as another club setting for 18-25 and another yet for us who still love the 70's & 80's as well as top 40- It was something we were looking forward to and will miss never having the experience-
First time Disney go'ers but Lifetime Disney Freaks!

Back to your regularly scheduled program... popcorn::

[zulemara]

we are only off topic because the original question, what's coming to the new PI? Can't be answered. NO ONE knows except some top level exec and the way things are looking, I don't even think they know what they're doing with the clubs.

My main concern was no alternative for people given Citywalk didn't have a techno night. That appears to be changing and if so, Citywalk here I come!

[FlirtyMeg79]

I was told there are only two more conventions at the club and then after that, no one really knows what's going to be done. Has anyone heard anything?

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I was told there are only two more conventions at the club and then after that, no one really knows what's going to be done. Has anyone heard anything?

When I began this thread last August, not a word had been leaked about what was coming to the new PI except the Hanes store (which ended up over in Marketplace) and the South American night club (which remains under construction).

So here we are 5 months later and there still has been no "leaks". With EVERYTHING else at Disney World, there are secrets and then there are leaks of information. Yet there has been NOTHING leaked about PI. This truly has been Disney's Best Kept Secret, not the those darn timeshares. This leads me to believe there there really are no plans for PI or perhaps vendors that did have plans shelved them when the economy turned sour.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

alright I think after observing, reading, getting some history, and just plain putting my own ideas and thoughts together, I have come up with what I deem to be the final answer to the whole PI situation.

First of all I walked through today for the first time since arriving back in Orlando, which is also the first time I've been here since the last night of PI. Motion didn't have any black things over the window so I was able to peek inside. Everything looked in tact although I couldn't see any lights. There was some kind of white banner up inside by the stage. It's obviously been or is being used.

I also took a peek inside the mannequins door by 8-trax where the smoking area was on busy nights. This would be the second level of the club. There was a light on inside and I could see one of the mannequins hanging where it was the last night, but was of course unable to see any of the lighting to see if the rumors are true that it has been stripped and the lights were used at American Idol(don't even get me started on that)

Now, why has this all been done? Why would Disney abandon something that has absolutely paid for itself in terms of return on investment and that single handidly put church street station out of business?

Company line: "due to guest feedback, we are presenting a bold new vision for downtown disney including unique shops and restaurants.

The truth: PI was attracting the "wrong element" and Disney didn't like the image being presented to guests who were walking through with children.

It seems to me they(in their mind) perhaps did things to try and get rid of the locals who would hang out and cause trouble. One of the things was making all the clubs 21+ all the time. While this was a pain for some people, I'm sure the hope was that it would drive away these teens hanging out since they couldn't get into the clubs. That appeared to not work.

Then they tore down the stage in an effort to open everything up and make it easier for guests to get from MP to WS. Why they did this, I still don't really know. It would make sense to have people walking through the island to generate business, but at the same time it caused the "wrong element" crowd to appear.

Now why did they choose sept 27th and leave all that holiday revenue on the table? Because it was the end of the fiscal year and for that last quarter, revenue at PI was sky high as the dooms day approached. You know that little bonus Iger got? Gee I wonder what numbers made it look like he did such a good job? I'm sure there are other things to the equation, but you have to know PI played some role in that because the clubs were all paid for at this point.

Furthermore if it is true that the Mannequins lights were moved to the AI attraction, that would be another little benefit to getting the club closed at the end of Sept so they could tear it apart.

Now I know I'm gonna get two crowds in here, the AC club lovers(and I love you back) and the people who don't care about or are glad PI closed. To those people, go back to the bars or the parks with all the screaming kids running around. To the AC people, I have believe the reason they would not just keep one club open is they felt they needed to go all or none. It was unique and not even a dancing establishment, but this is what makes me think they HAD something planned but it fell through. They are continuing to use the club past the date they had said they wouldn't, and that means to me either they are gonna keep it preserved or they are waiting for something to come through and then they'll tear it all apart. lets face it, had they kept AC, CW, 8-trax, and mannequins open, 99% of people would have been fine with that. This is why it goes back to A) the wrong element and B) having a plan that has obviously fallen through.

Of course we can all argue/discuss how they COULD have preserved PI if they really wanted to, but going through all this in my mind has at least helped me make peace with the decisions.

Now all we have is Atlantic Dance and Jellyrolls.

So who wants to open a new mannequins at the old club paris location downtown? PM me!

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Good analysis and probably right on point. No doubt the wrong element; generally teenagers, were hanging around too much. Connecting the two sides of DTD absolutely required them to open PI but with it open, the non-revenue teens congregated even more, so they had to get rid of the stages and things cascaded from there. As to whether there really are plans for PI, we should know pretty soon. By the end of February we will either see some wrecking balls or we won't.

I so wish that Disney would change its mind and let the AC and CW reopen as paid admission venues. These places certainly fit the family friendly mantra. And the adding of the South/Central American restaurant with a late evening night club must show some sentiment that this kind of club can fit into their bold new scheme. CityWalk proves every night that family friendly can coexist with adult night club entertainment.

As for the Club Paris location, the place is so filled with old-fashioned wrought iron from its original days as the Cheyenne Social Club or Phineous Pfoggs Balloon Works that renovations into something futuristic looking aka Mannequins would be prohibitively expensive. But it is large and has a working sound system. Talking Disney into reopening something at PI would be preferable though.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

Good analysis and probably right on point. No doubt the wrong element; generally teenagers, were hanging around too much. Connecting the two sides of DTD absolutely required them to open PI but with it open, the non-revenue teens congregated even more, so they had to get rid of the stages and things cascaded from there. As to whether there really are plans for PI, we should know pretty soon. By the end of February we will either see some wrecking balls or we won't.

I so wish that Disney would change its mind and let the AC and CW reopen as paid admission venues. These places certainly fit the family friendly mantra. And the adding of the South/Central American restaurant with a late evening night club must show some sentiment that this kind of club can fit into their bold new scheme. CityWalk proves every night that family friendly can coexist with adult night club entertainment.

As for the Club Paris location, the place is so filled with old-fashioned wrought iron from its original days as the Cheyenne Social Club or Phineous Pfoggs Balloon Works that renovations into something futuristic looking aka Mannequins would be prohibitively expensive. But it is large and has a working sound system. Talking Disney into reopening something at PI would be preferable though.

BobK/Orlando

yeah I would argue they should have just gated the island again and made it like the old days. There used to be a bridge going from MP to WS and they tore that down too. There were alternatives if they really wanted the island to thrive, but they didn't so they let it die.

I agree CW and AC at the very least should still be open.

As for Club Paris, I'd update the decor as time went on, but it's the sound and lighting that's important at the start. It seems to be a good location and would draw people to Church Street. If they started running busses from WDW to church street, it would really boom business.

[Traveliz]

I so wish that Disney would change its mind and let the AC and CW reopen as paid admission venues.
BobK/Orlando

I agree.

Liz

[NMW]

Good analysis and probably right on point. No doubt the wrong element; generally teenagers, were hanging around too much.

BobK/Orlando

I agree that it was the teens. I posted a while ago that the large groups of seedy looking teens made families feel unsafe and not at all like they were at Disney. I just could not imagine that Disney would want this kind of image. I know people that wrote to Disney and complained about these large groups of teenagers. A woman from my daughter's softball team and her children were followed out to her car by a group of them, they yelled stuff to her, scared the bejeezus out of her. The first thing she did the next morning was go to the front desk at her resort asked to whom she could complain about these "gangs" of teenagers. I honestly know 2 other people that had similar (not exactly the same thing-they were not followed) experiences with these teens, feeling unsafe, and said they would not go back to DTD because of it.

When I wrote about this a while back posters told me that I was being completely ridiculous...the teens weren't that bad, you could go to any mall and see the same thing, they are actually worse on the WS and not PI, etc..

I always thought that PI should have been built on the "end" and not in the middle of MP and WS. Then they could have kept it gated, charged a cover, and required adults to be 21. The teenager thing would not have been an issue.

I feel bad for fans of AC and CW as well as the dance clubs. We'll have to see as it gets warmer if this undesirable element (AKA-teens) comes back or not.

It doesn seem like SOME sort of plans for PI should have been announced by now. Maybe it is the economy...who knows?

[Scurvy]

I always thought that PI should have been built on the "end" and not in the middle of MP and WS. Then they could have kept it gated, charged a cover, and required adults to be 21. The teenager thing would not have been an issue.



Initially Pleasure Island was on the end. The Marketplace came first, and then Pleasure Island. I agree that it didn't work well in the middle - but that should have been easy to foresee. They chose to build the West Side where they did after Pleasure Island had already been there for quite a while. I think they should have offset the West Side so that they formed more of a triangle, since there wasn't room on the other side of the Marketplace to build it there.

[Jason71]

We'll have to see as it gets warmer if this undesirable element (AKA-teens) comes back or not.


They're still there, as much as they ever were. (And for the record, I mean "teens," not even getting into the whole "undesirable element" thing again.) The AMC didn't go anywhere, and that's what draws teens in any town in America.

Same number of O.C. deputies and security guards, as well, BTW--tho they all look even more bored at 2:00 am now, with tiny Fuego being the only place left open. While closing PI may have been an economic decision, cutting secutity costs was clearly not one of the goals.

I've said this a dozen different ways, but the idea that this was a plan to somehow make DTD "family-friendly" is laughable...no matter what the little piece of cardboard said. This was purely a move toward outsourcing.

[zulemara]

They're still there, as much as they ever were. (And for the record, I mean "teens," not even getting into the whole "undesirable element" thing again.) The AMC didn't go anywhere, and that's what draws teens in any town in America.

Same number of O.C. deputies and security guards, as well, BTW--tho they all look even more bored at 2:00 am now, with tiny Fuego being the only place left open. While closing PI may have been an economic decision, cutting secutity costs was clearly not one of the goals.

I've said this a dozen different ways, but the idea that this was a plan to somehow make DTD "family-friendly" is laughable...no matter what the little piece of cardboard said. This was purely a move toward outsourcing.

yeah, still teens, still have security, so why no new developments? I still don't think money had anything to do with it. It was about image. They could have easily gated off the island again and it would be just the same as it is now, only I'd be a lot less pissed off, but they didn't wanna put in the effort.

And for the record, WS was built in 98 I believe

[Jason71]

Initially Pleasure Island was on the end. The Marketplace came first, and then Pleasure Island. I agree that it didn't work well in the middle - but that should have been easy to foresee. They chose to build the West Side where they did after Pleasure Island had already been there for quite a while. I think they should have offset the West Side so that they formed more of a triangle, since there wasn't room on the other side of the Marketplace to build it there.

I could be misremembering, but I thought the original plan was for West Side to be a more "adult" version of the Marketplace, to complement PI which by that point had lost its T.S. restaurants and was known just for its clubs. Cirque, Wolfgang Puck, Bongos, HoB, Sosa, the memorabilia shop, "Mickey Mouse Hot Topic" (I forget its real name now), the guitar shop--all could be seen as catering to an 18 and up crowd. Even the candy shop, themed to the Wicked Queen rather than Goofy, could have taken on a more adult air had history gone differently.

Hmm...an area of upscale, adult-oriented third party dining and entertainment in DTD. So basically, this idea has failed TWICE now.

[Jason71]

yeah, still teens, still have security, so why no new developments? I still don't think money had anything to do with it. It was about image. They could have easily gated off the island again and it would be just the same as it is now, only I'd be a lot less pissed off, but they didn't wanna put in the effort.

And for the record, WS was built in 98 I believe

Not sure you could re-gate the Island at this point without annoying the existing 3rd party tenants. Maybe you could put gates at an angle to somehow allow access to Raglan but block it to Mannequins, but no way Harley and Curl wouldn't become paid-admission only.

(But yeah, still 100% agreement that more than anything is what killed PI.)

Disney doesn't want to run anything anymore--look at the restaurants in AK in Epcot. It's easier to run a glorified mall and collect a fixed rent every month than to have to run eight clubs and deal with market fluctuations. They just overestimated what a spot on Disney property not actually surrounded by anything Disney is worth.

'98 sounds right--fairly certain Fireworks Factory had closed by then, and Portabello and Emperess Lily/Fultons were outside the PI gate, so the idea was people would eat and shop a little in West Side, then "carpe PM" over at PI.

[Scurvy]

I could be misremembering, but I thought the original plan was for West Side to be a more "adult" version of the Marketplace, to complement PI which by that point had lost its T.S. restaurants and was known just for its clubs. Cirque, Wolfgang Puck, Bongos, HoB, Sosa, the memorabilia shop, "Mickey Mouse Hot Topic" (I forget its real name now), the guitar shop--all could be seen as catering to an 18 and up crowd. Even the candy shop, themed to the Wicked Queen rather than Goofy, could have taken on a more adult air had history gone differently.

Hmm...an area of upscale, adult-oriented third party dining and entertainment in DTD. So basically, this idea has failed TWICE now.

I think you're right, but if I recall correctly DisneyQuest and the theater were there when the WS opened or very soon thereafter, so they should have expected some family traffic over there.
It would have been really easy to build some of the WS further out where the parking lot is so people didn't feel like they were going out of their way to walk around PI.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

OK gang, here's the latest PI rumors I picked up on today from a reliable source. And while I say reliable, they remain just rumors and have no more credibility than all the other ones we've had on here about PI:

1. Disney management is very upset about what has become of PI. No doubt that there were indeed plans for the island but they fell through because of the economy.

Within one year:
2. The building that formerly housed Motion will reopen as an 8TRAX type of club playing 70's, 80's & 90's music.

3. The building that formerly housed the BET Soundstage will reopen as a Mannequins style club.

4. Adventurers Club will reopen in its current location. The cost of labor here remains an issue.

5. No word on the building that currently houses Mannequins and 8TRAX plus Curl and Harley.

Again I must emphasize that this is unsubstantiated. For instance, if they are unhappy with the condition out there, why take a year to reopen things? But we can still wish, can't we?

BobK/Orlando

[Scurvy]

Thanks for posting that, KINGBOBOFTHENORTH! I know it's just rumor at this point, but it's still nice to have a glimmer of hope. I'd love to be able to go Adventuring again, and DTD needs places for dancing. I would be thrilled if this turned out to be true!

[Ladysunflr]

OK gang, here's the latest PI rumors I picked up on today from a reliable source. And while I say reliable, they remain just rumors and have no more credibility than all the other ones we've had on here about PI:

1. Disney management is very upset about what has become of PI. No doubt that there were indeed plans for the island but they fell through because of the economy.

Within one year:
2. The building that formerly housed Motion will reopen as an 8TRAX type of club playing 70's, 80's & 90's music.

3. The building that formerly housed the BET Soundstage will reopen as a Mannequins style club.

4. Adventurers Club will reopen in its current location. The cost of labor here remains an issue.

5. No word on the building that currently houses Mannequins and 8TRAX plus Curl and Harley.

I'm sworn to secrecy on the source and again must emphasize that this is unsubstantiated. For instance, if they are unhappy with the condition out there, why take a year to reopen things? But we can still wish, can't we?

BobK/Orlando


I am inspired by this news.. but here's my question ( and forgive my stupidity... ) Where is the latin tequlia bar place going?

[Scurvy]

I am inspired by this news.. but here's my question ( and forgive my stupidity... ) Where is the latin tequlia bar place going?

I think it might be going into the old Beach Club building and/or the empty storefronts next to it. It definitely isn't going in to any of the Clubs that were closed recently - nothing's been announced for those spots.

[zulemara]

OK gang, here's the latest PI rumors I picked up on today from a reliable source. And while I say reliable, they remain just rumors and have no more credibility than all the other ones we've had on here about PI:

1. Disney management is very upset about what has become of PI. No doubt that there were indeed plans for the island but they fell through because of the economy.

Within one year:
2. The building that formerly housed Motion will reopen as an 8TRAX type of club playing 70's, 80's & 90's music.

3. The building that formerly housed the BET Soundstage will reopen as a Mannequins style club.

4. Adventurers Club will reopen in its current location. The cost of labor here remains an issue.

5. No word on the building that currently houses Mannequins and 8TRAX plus Curl and Harley.

I'm sworn to secrecy on the source and again must emphasize that this is unsubstantiated. For instance, if they are unhappy with the condition out there, why take a year to reopen things? But we can still wish, can't we?

BobK/Orlando

I know this is only a rumor, but this glimmer of hope has me ready to cry.

Now my question is why in the world wouldn't you just open the existing clubs? why use crappy BET for mannequins instead of mannequins iteslf? Maybe it's a pride issue with the company? At this point I don't flippin care, just OPEN SOMETHING!!!!

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I am inspired by this news.. but here's my question ( and forgive my stupidity... ) Where is the latin tequlia bar place going?

The South/Central American restaurant and night club is going into the building that formerly housed a few shops plus the Missing Link Sausage Company fast food restaurant. Supposedly it will also house a food court called Street Foods of the Americas as well as a tequila bar.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

The South/Central American restaurant and night club is going into the building that formerly housed a few shops plus the Missing Link Sausage Company fast food restaurant. Supposedly it will also house a food court called Street Foods of the Americas as well as a tequila bar.

BobK/Orlando

yeah and I'm perfectly fine with that. So now the question is what would happen if an investor came forward expressing an interest in mannequins. If this rumor has even the slightest bit of truth to it, it indicates they are not ready to give up on the nightlife component to WDW and that opens the door to what we've been wanting all along

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

yeah and I'm perfectly fine with that. So now the question is what would happen if an investor came forward expressing an interest in mannequins. If this rumor has even the slightest bit of truth to it, it indicates they are not ready to give up on the nightlife component to WDW and that opens the door to what we've been wanting all along.

We'll see how this plays out. Super Bowl weekend has arrived so now it's time to see if wrecking balls arrive shortly thereafter.

BobK/Orlando

[zulemara]

We'll see how this plays out. Super Bowl weekend has arrived so now it's time to see if wrecking balls arrive shortly thereafter.

BobK/Orlando

What is the significance to super bowl weekend?

Also I took a rather long stroll through PI tonight with my friend. We went to dinner at Ohana and then headed to WS to see about going to a movie but nothing was playing late that was worth the money. Here's a couple observations:
1. I don't know if this is recent or just because I really only visited during the day, but if you go to the lower entrance to 8-trax, you can actually see inside through one of the cage windows. You can see part of the dance floor and the big restroom sign that guests still could never seem to see:lmao: I was informed that there used to be lava lamps in those windows. There were also lights on the top of the smoking area, but they are gone now. Interestingly enough, there is a moving multi color light at the lower entrance to 8-trax that was still on and bouncing around. So you're standing there in this completely dead environment with this little party light flashing on the door. Some things just don't make sense....

I went right up to the line into mannequins and confirmed once again that the light was on. At this point I'm entirely convinced it is a permanent thing. Come to think of it the light in 8-trax was on too. The mannequins elevator was on 3, which is how it has been since I first walked through 2 weeks ago, but my friend said it was on 2 the last time, so there has been movement.

Nothing different at motion, but we know for a fact it is still being used for meetings and events for the college program so it is what it is.

I took a closer look at the construction wall to see that the artist rendering of the new area is indeed called the streets of america(or whatever it was) and it basically indicated a food court. It looks like maybe the margarita bar will be in the middle of the food court. We peeked through the construction walls...yikes what a bloody mess!

Now here is the kicker..They added black covering to the adventurer's club revolving doors. They did not, however, add them to the normal doors. Perhaps they are adding it tomorrow, I don't know. I'll be watching that closely especially with the given rumor and the fact that the last special gatherings will be coming to(or already have) a close.

As for the "wrong element" we noticed 4 orange county policemen on patrol, 2 Disney security, and one security that was under cover(my friend knows him). As we were peeking in things(but not going past any lines) they walked by but didn't seem to care or even look at us. There were several "gang bangers" if you want to call them that, only they were hanging out by HOB and the AMC. Once again...not PI.

Also we saw a former PI manager at the old guest relations location right by wetzel's pretzels. He informed us that guest relations is moving into Disney Quest(currently they are at "booth 2" at PI, which is the main entrance ticket location) There will be a wall going up and they will start transitioning the guest relations tower into the ticket tower for that stupid balloon thing they are building. It will be expanded to include(of course) a new shop.

I think watching AC and BET will be the key to determining how real this rumor is. At this point based on my observations and their choice of which clubs opening, it seems fairly obvious to me that they sold the mannequins/8-trax building which is why they started tearing things out of it. I also believe things halted due to the economy which is why most if it is still in tact.

And so the question still remains...how does one purchase and reopen mannequins and 8-trax. I'll be damned if mannequin's rotating dance floor is gonna turn into a rotating ESPN zone....